IRC log of swhack on 2001-10-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:15:36 [logster]
logster has joined #swhack
00:15:36 [carter.openprojects.net]
Users on #swhack: logster deltab tav tav` AaronSw
00:16:23 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Beware the secret lair.
00:16:53 [AaronSw]
mwaha
00:40:22 [Morbus]
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00:40:58 [Morbus]
new release of ampheta tonight. just waiting for sf to filerelease.
00:41:15 [AaronSw]
cool
00:41:22 [AaronSw]
what made the devtools so hard to install?
00:41:34 [Morbus]
pft. not hard. just long. i'm on a 56k remember ;)
00:41:43 [AaronSw]
ah
00:41:46 [AaronSw]
:-)
00:41:53 [Morbus]
i wanted to release a few days ago, but cvs was broken.
00:41:54 [Morbus]
sigh
00:42:06 [Morbus]
its still kinda broken. i think i have to reupload my identity.pub to sf.
00:42:09 [Morbus]
keeps asking for my pw
00:42:28 [AaronSw]
hmm
00:43:48 [Morbus]
hmf. sf is taking forever today
00:47:08 [Morbus]
ampheta's a featured perl project at the perl foundry at sf ;)
00:47:36 [AaronSw]
wow... someday you will need to share the secrets of publicity with me!
00:47:55 [Morbus]
hehehe...
00:48:10 [Morbus]
i can't do anything... dammit. sf needs to release my files.
00:48:15 [Morbus]
i'm stuck without that.
00:51:25 [AaronSw]
Heh: http://leech.dk/tux_drink.jpg
00:52:20 [Morbus]
heh. nice.
00:55:04 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: I need to finde the ZIG to the W3C's XAG.
00:56:06 [AaronSw]
Shoot, Mac OS X Mail keeps quitting unexpectedly on me. This is really annoying.
00:56:22 [Morbus]
really? hasnt happened to me...
00:56:36 [Morbus]
actuall...
00:56:43 [AaronSw]
I think it's HTML emails that get it.
00:56:43 [Morbus]
i think i heard somethign about that on the macosx list at omnigroup.com
00:56:46 [Morbus]
you may want to check the arhives,
00:56:51 [Morbus]
or macfixit.com
00:56:59 [tav`]
enotourage...
00:57:02 [tav`]
entourage...
00:57:05 [Morbus]
eudora!
00:57:17 [AaronSw]
tav, why are you pushing mac products?
00:57:23 [AaronSw]
s/mac/microsoft/
00:57:34 [AaronSw]
thanks, morbus
00:57:36 [Morbus]
guess hedoesnt like you
00:58:03 [tav`]
AaronSw: it looks nice?
00:58:09 [tav`]
and seemed to work well afaict
00:58:15 [AaronSw]
You got a Mac?
00:58:27 [AaronSw]
Entourage is cool, yes but:
00:58:31 [AaronSw]
a) it's from microsoft
00:58:33 [AaronSw]
b) it's expensive
00:58:37 [AaronSw]
c) it locks up my data
00:58:37 [tav`]
no, but i have friends who use macs
00:58:51 [Morbus]
and oh wait, it loves html mail.
00:58:58 [Morbus]
and will be the harbinger of mac os virii ;)
00:59:56 [tav`]
mac microsoft software seem better designed than windows ones
01:00:10 [Morbus]
seen word X? it's more playskool than ever
01:00:17 [AaronSw]
Yep, totally different group of guys, tav.
01:00:25 [AaronSw]
they don't even work in redmond
01:00:28 [AaronSw]
so they're cool with me
01:00:48 [AaronSw]
(as long as I don't pay MS for their work)
01:05:19 [Morbus]
whoo. v0.92 is up on sourceforge
01:06:24 [AaronSw]
cool
01:06:29 [Morbus]
aaronSw, you want to mention it on rss info? ;)
01:06:38 [AaronSw]
Nah, you can.
01:06:53 [AaronSw]
And to make it fair, put in that Peerkat is looking for programmers. ;) peerkat.sourceforge.net
01:07:19 [Morbus]
hehe. see tht's why i didn't want to ;) unfair promotion where its too easy to get cauht ;)
01:07:56 [AaronSw]
Well, you can just pretend I wrote it.
01:08:11 [AaronSw]
Heh, especially since this is publically logged.
01:08:35 [tav`]
heh
01:09:03 [Morbus]
i'll be like "hi! i'm on a jewish holiday right now, but my great buddy morbus..."
01:09:04 [Morbus]
<g>
01:09:32 [AaronSw]
Heh.
01:09:47 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw looks to see what Morbus has been writing on his site...
01:11:48 [Morbus]
hehehe
01:20:38 [AaronSw]
ugh, this Mail bug really sucks
01:22:44 [Morbus]
no luck in the archives?
01:22:53 [AaronSw]
not yet
01:29:30 [AaronSw]
Hmm, how much does eudora cost?
01:30:14 [Morbus]
free with ads.
01:30:26 [Morbus]
or lite with no ads.
01:32:50 [AaronSw]
hmm
01:32:51 [AaronSw]
Can it import from Mail?
01:34:16 [Morbus]
um. i dunno. i'm sure there's an applescript somewhere to do it
01:34:16 [AaronSw]
Heh: EARN $100,000 PER YEAR SENDING E-MAIL!!!
01:34:16 [AaronSw]
Quick, pay me now.
01:34:33 [Morbus]
hehe.
01:40:23 [Morbus]
aaronSw, you may want to poke around here http://emailman.com/eudora/mac/scripts.html
01:40:24 [Morbus]
hey, do you know of a usenet reader for os x?
01:40:56 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I use Thorth
01:41:02 [AaronSw]
err... something like that...
01:41:08 [AaronSw]
thoth
01:41:20 [Morbus]
thorth?
01:41:20 [Morbus]
heh. attachment capability?
01:41:32 [Morbus]
for those oh so desirable binary groups
01:41:39 [AaronSw]
Umm, dunno... I don't read Usenet all that much. I think so.
01:42:43 [Morbus]
neither do i ;) ... i use to use mtnewswatcher under 8, then never reinstalled it when i threw 9 on
01:46:12 [Morbus]
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01:49:50 [AaronSw]
Hmm, Eudora isn't Carbonized?
01:51:29 [Morbus]
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01:51:34 [AaronSw]
Hmm, Eudora isn't Carbonized?
01:52:05 [Morbus]
no, it is.
01:52:09 [Morbus]
eudora.com/beta/s
01:52:13 [Morbus]
betas/ rather
01:52:19 [Morbus]
unexpirable beta os x version is carbon
01:52:46 [AaronSw]
Ahh.
01:52:51 [AaronSw]
Many bugs?
01:53:14 [Morbus]
none that are crucial.
01:53:20 [Morbus]
in 10.1, some of the tabs disappear
01:53:38 [Morbus]
and if you ctrl-w when checking mail and your idle time is real low, you can get duplicate crashes.
01:53:47 [Morbus]
those are the only two i've seen in an awful lot of usage
01:54:02 [AaronSw]
duplicate crashes?
01:54:23 [Morbus]
um... poo. you can duplicate the crash easily by doing this.
01:54:26 [Morbus]
yeah, thats what i meant :)
01:54:55 [AaronSw]
what's ctrl-w do?
01:54:55 [Morbus]
i love clicking the send button.
01:55:05 [Morbus]
dammit. apple-w
01:55:08 [Morbus]
too much windows usage
01:56:27 [AaronSw]
Heh.
01:57:47 [Morbus]
sigh. why do people make things so hard.
01:57:55 [Morbus]
upload.com wants me to type in the size of my download.
01:58:01 [Morbus]
can't they figure that out themselves? sheeesh
01:58:53 [AaronSw]
heh
01:58:56 [AaronSw]
They can't count.
01:59:16 [Morbus]
apparently.
01:59:23 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw receives all 4 AmphetaDesk spams
01:59:32 [AaronSw]
Apparently I am in the targe market. ;)
01:59:50 [Morbus]
lol...
01:59:51 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw considers writing Morbus a please don't spam to rss-dev letter...
01:59:54 [Morbus]
thats funny as hell.
02:00:26 [Morbus]
ah. if you want to say that publically, you can do that too. save me some future bandwidth /scolding
02:00:51 [AaronSw]
Nah, i'm too lazy to do that. ;)
02:00:55 [Morbus]
heheh
02:01:05 [Morbus]
pt taken though
02:02:59 [tav`]
heh
02:03:17 [tav`]
Morbus: you want reputation..
02:03:23 [tav`]
then you only need to say things once
02:03:28 [tav`]
and then people would pick up on it
02:03:31 [AaronSw]
How?
02:03:34 [tav`]
and spread it like wildfire
02:03:46 [Morbus]
huh? whatcha talking about?
02:03:48 [Morbus]
seen my press pit?
02:04:39 [AaronSw]
come on tav, explain it
02:04:49 [AaronSw]
Hmm, Eudora doesn't seem to be able to import from OS X Mail :-(
02:04:59 [Morbus]
you didn't see any at that site?
02:05:54 [AaronSw]
why is textedit taking so long to open?
02:06:13 [Morbus]
why are you having so many problems? :(
02:07:18 [AaronSw]
it doesn't seem to be my day
02:07:52 [Morbus]
ah well. i'm leaving
02:07:57 [Morbus]
got other stuff to finalize here
02:08:29 [AaronSw]
ok, see you -- thanks for the help
02:09:11 [Morbus]
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02:51:06 [AaronSw]
Welcome back.
02:51:33 [Morbus]
macperl 561b1 for mac just came out. whoo.
02:51:39 [Morbus]
thanks
02:53:24 [AaronSw]
I gave up on Eudora... perhaps I should just set up an IMAP server.
02:53:40 [Morbus]
why'd you give up?
02:53:45 [Morbus]
cos of the conversion?
02:53:49 [AaronSw]
yeah
02:53:51 [Morbus]
write one yourself, ya wuss ;)
02:53:54 [AaronSw]
couldn't find a converter
02:53:56 [AaronSw]
i'm lazy
02:53:56 [AaronSw]
ugh! this crashing is really annoying!
02:54:21 [Morbus]
yeah, there's an archive called "Mail, grrrrr" on omnigroup.com
02:54:31 [Morbus]
i haven't been reading it, but *someone* else is having probs
02:54:39 [AaronSw]
which list?
02:55:07 [Morbus]
there's a mailing list at omnigroup.com called macosx.
02:55:08 [AaronSw]
ahh, found it
02:55:09 [AaronSw]
there
02:55:15 [AaronSw]
macosx-talk
02:55:26 [AaronSw]
there's a lot of mail.app bashing going on
02:55:29 [Morbus]
yeah, that one
02:55:36 [Morbus]
heheh :)
02:56:08 [Morbus]
hey, if you see anything about menu extras, lemme know. same with neat applescript stuff
02:56:30 [AaronSw]
ok
03:03:09 [AaronSw]
search-and-replace to the rescue!
03:03:41 [AaronSw]
uh oh... i screwed something up
03:05:12 [AaronSw]
hmm, maybe not
03:05:18 [Morbus]
lol
03:07:56 [AaronSw]
Perhaps it's just a really weird email message
03:15:51 [AaronSw]
LOL -- seen on an email list:
03:15:55 [AaronSw]
"""I don't know who you are but you and Scott and Nick have royally screwed up
03:15:55 [AaronSw]
my compute rwith these weird messages---qand they keep coming. Must I call
03:15:55 [AaronSw]
some authority?"""
03:16:22 [Morbus]
lol
03:30:07 [Morbus]
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AaronSw has quit
03:51:36 [AaronSw]
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04:50:09 [AaronSw]
LOL, I tell someone I'm sticking with salesman instead of salesperson and I get back a 2-page response
06:36:29 [rillian]
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06:36:30 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: I need to find the ZIG to the W3C's XAG.
06:36:41 [rillian]
sure
06:36:54 [AaronSw]
Cool, I keep this place for off-topic chat. ;)
06:37:36 [AaronSw]
i still have wget hard wired into my brain, though
06:37:40 [AaronSw]
as much as i like curl
06:37:44 [rillian]
I heard libtool finally works in 10.1?
06:38:02 [AaronSw]
hmm, haven't tried it
06:39:23 [rillian]
I must say I won't be impressed if this is the problem
06:39:38 [AaronSw]
Heh.
06:39:42 [rillian]
you'd think an installer would be a place you'd be extra-careful about checking errors
06:40:03 [AaronSw]
The installers haven't impressed me with their quality.
06:40:31 [rillian]
dunno what's wrong with tar.gz
06:40:41 [AaronSw]
When installing 10.1 on a laptop it kept quitting out in the middle and I couldn't figure out for the life off me why.
06:40:54 [AaronSw]
So on a whim, I turned off the Printer Descriptions and Language Packs and it worked!
06:41:06 [AaronSw]
but it was odd, getting these kernel-panic style error messages.
06:41:21 [rillian]
huh, the 10.1 upgrade went ok
06:41:35 [rillian]
though it seemed to spend a *lot* of time on Language Packs
06:42:22 [rillian]
of course, I'm out of disk space again
06:43:02 [AaronSw]
Heh.
06:43:20 [AaronSw]
OmniDiskSweeper is my savior.
06:43:57 [rillian]
what does that do, anyway?
06:44:35 [AaronSw]
It's basically like "Browser View" sorted by size
06:45:13 [rillian]
um...and this is different from the finder how?
06:45:28 [rillian]
or sorted over the whole disk?
06:45:42 [AaronSw]
yep, the whole disk
06:46:03 [AaronSw]
so you drill down to find the big space-wasters
06:48:05 [rillian]
well, it's certainly nice to meet another osx junkie
06:48:20 [rillian]
most of the people I know respond to questions with 'use linux' :)
06:48:24 [AaronSw]
Heh.
06:48:41 [AaronSw]
Morbus hangs out in #swhack sometimes -- also an OS X junkie.
06:49:01 [AaronSw]
http://disobey.com/about/
06:49:56 [rillian]
morbus' site?
06:50:20 [rillian]
AaronSw: you don't know how to remove the stickiness of the capslock by any chance?
06:50:29 [AaronSw]
yep, morbus's site.
06:50:36 [AaronSw]
stickiness: nope, sorry
06:50:49 [AaronSw]
Why would you want to? wouldn't that just make it a shift key?
06:51:04 [rillian]
then I could switch it with ctrl
06:51:17 [rillian]
which is suboptimally placed on the powerbook keyboards
06:51:51 [rillian]
"The software was successfully installed"
06:52:00 [rillian]
"Time remaining: about 6 minutes"
06:52:20 [AaronSw]
heh... don't you wish it would make up its mind
06:52:53 [rillian]
the best thing is that the Time Remaining: is now at 8 minutes
06:53:04 [AaronSw]
lol
06:53:21 [AaronSw]
Better use it while you have the chance!
06:54:28 [rillian]
wonder if I should bother filing a bug
06:57:26 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw curses Mail again!
06:57:34 [AaronSw]
what mail client do you use?
06:58:21 [AaronSw]
rillian, what mail client do you use?
07:04:22 [AaronSw]
Conspiracy theorists... dd is suggesting the W3C published this patent draft so that they could get this reacion which they can take back to their patent-loving members.
07:07:55 [rillian]
scary
07:08:01 [rillian]
AaronSw: Mail.app
07:08:21 [AaronSw]
does it crash everytime you view an attachment?
07:08:31 [AaronSw]
or view a message that has an attachment/mime
07:08:40 [rillian]
AaronSw: nope
07:08:46 [AaronSw]
Hmmph.
07:08:55 [AaronSw]
I wonder what's wrong with mine, tho.
07:09:07 [rillian]
The old one would mark everything as unread if it compaction failed
07:09:15 [rillian]
and a couple of other annoyance-level things
07:09:20 [rillian]
it's never crashed on me
07:09:34 [rillian]
AaronSw: symlinks in you /lib directory? :)
07:09:50 [AaronSw]
lol
07:10:21 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I had those annoyances...
07:10:31 [rillian]
at least ssh doesn't take 45 seconds any more...
07:10:38 [rillian]
AaronSw: they seem to have fixed most of those
07:10:41 [AaronSw]
So you've viewed messages w/ attachments in 10.1?
07:10:45 [rillian]
yes
07:10:51 [AaronSw]
hmmm
07:10:52 [rillian]
well, not something it could inline
07:10:54 [rillian]
hang on
07:11:10 [AaronSw]
yeah, i'm thinking inline -- HTML, etc.
07:11:51 [rillian]
inline pdf works
07:11:59 [rillian]
oh, yeah, inline html works as well
07:12:02 [rillian]
I'd forgotten
07:12:04 [AaronSw]
hmm
07:12:17 [AaronSw]
What am I doing wrong?
07:12:43 [rillian]
dunno. gdb it?
07:13:06 [rillian]
submitted the installer bug, btw. lied about reproducing it though
07:13:23 [AaronSw]
Heh.
07:13:33 [rillian]
and the installer has been saying "less than a minute" for about the past 20
07:13:35 [AaronSw]
Oh, hmm, I rebuilt my mailbox and it seems to be fixed.
07:13:51 [rillian]
The close button is active...
07:13:52 [AaronSw]
err, i take that back.
07:14:05 [rillian]
"what happens if I press the blue button?"
07:14:27 [AaronSw]
it's not all HTML mail -- just seems to be the kind that Mail doesn't send out
07:14:55 [rillian]
btw, I've had some complaints about the way it does attachments
07:15:10 [rillian]
as I read the spec it's correct, but different from windowland practice
07:15:23 [rillian]
fascinating. cvs is still broken
07:15:32 [AaronSw]
Yeah, same here -- it seems like no one else can read my attachments
07:16:14 [rillian]
it does a multipart/mime with a no-attachements text version at the beginning, followed by the version with the attachments
07:16:23 [rillian]
which is what you want if you've got inline attachements
07:16:36 [rillian]
but it seems to confuse a lot of mailers
07:17:03 [rillian]
the spec says to send alternatives in order of increasing perference
07:17:14 [rillian]
which for mailers like outlook means html last
07:17:28 [rillian]
which inspires mailers like mutt to read the first one
07:17:37 [rillian]
which looks like it has the attachements missing
07:17:58 [AaronSw]
Yeah.
07:18:06 [rillian]
what they should do is drop the alternative if the attachements are at the end of the message
07:18:16 [AaronSw]
2001-10-04 02:13:57.734 Mail[1082] Warning: two messages in one mailbox have the same ID!
07:18:28 [rillian]
sounds like corruption
07:18:44 [rillian]
oh, you know
07:18:54 [rillian]
I did have a couple of messages that would crash mail.app
07:19:02 [rillian]
I'd forgotten about them
07:19:21 [AaronSw]
Hmm, crashreporter seems to have stopped
07:19:33 [rillian]
only one (and three copies of it!) out of the 20000 or so since I started using it
07:19:42 [AaronSw]
hmm
07:19:53 [AaronSw]
how do I get crashreporter back again?
07:20:12 [rillian]
no idea
07:20:20 [rillian]
it's just an application you can launch
07:20:29 [rillian]
but probably you'll lose all the debug stuff
07:20:40 [AaronSw]
crashreporter? no, it was a daemon from /etc/hostconfig
07:21:54 [rillian]
I stand corrected
07:21:59 [rillian]
seems to be gone from my system
07:22:33 [rillian]
maybe this means all the bugs are fixed
07:22:54 [AaronSw]
That'd be nice! ;)
07:23:07 [rillian]
nope, no libtool
07:23:24 [rillian]
I heard it worked on the sourceforge machine though :(
07:23:34 [rillian]
anyway, I should head home
07:23:46 [rillian]
rillian has quit
07:38:55 [AaronSw]
DanC's minutes are brutally honest. ;-)
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sbp has quit
15:11:28 [AaronSw]
...
15:53:00 [AaronSw]
WL on the W3C patent stuff: "I may not be effective at it, but I will rake muck about this."
17:10:28 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw goes to lie down.
17:44:12 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after a short program of splits. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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17:44:58 [AaronSw]
anyone know of an fdupes-like thing that'll run on my machine? the C version won't compile.
17:57:07 [AaronSw]
anyone know of an fdupes-like thing that'll run on my machine? the C version won't compile.
17:57:53 [AaronSw]
I guess i will just write a python ditty myself
18:17:34 [AaronSw]
grr, why is Python insisting this symbolic link is a regular file?
18:18:15 [AaronSw]
deltab?
18:27:15 [AaronSw]
i guess it's not so important
18:28:57 [AaronSw]
ahh, i guess I needed to use lstat instead of stat
18:34:58 [AaronSw]
How do I find out if something is a hard link?
18:40:24 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw takes a deep breath, and tries out his duplicate finder on his HTTP archive
18:40:54 [AaronSw]
Before: 283.8 MB
18:46:48 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw tries again with nice -n 20
22:08:18 [AaronSw]
Shoot! It finished measuring but then hit a bug before it could take action!
22:08:31 [AaronSw]
Trying again.
22:27:28 [sbp]
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22:27:41 [AaronSw]
hi sean!
22:27:51 [sbp]
Hi there
22:28:01 [sbp]
I'm currently modularizing SWIPT...
22:28:17 [sbp]
and listening to Bob Dylan
22:28:36 [AaronSw]
Cool.
22:28:39 [sbp]
How was Sukkot?
22:28:46 [AaronSw]
Pretty good thanks. How've you been?
22:29:05 [sbp]
not too bad, but tired after the F2F!
22:29:19 [AaronSw]
Heh, I bet!
22:30:14 [sbp]
I was telling Libby about the discussion we had asserted statements/contexts etc. What example did you give for asserted statements?
22:30:28 [AaronSw]
Oh, yes, I thought about that.
22:30:54 [AaronSw]
The asserted statement: :supremeCourt :members "9" .
22:31:51 [AaronSw]
is a decent one... i don't remember what i used last time
22:32:16 [sbp]
in what context would it need to be asserted where reification can't handle it?
22:32:37 [AaronSw]
Any context. I just want to assert it.
22:32:42 [sbp]
* sbp uses totally the wrong terminology there, but you know what I mean...
22:33:07 [sbp]
well it wouldn't be any context, it'd be the root context, but I meant context in the loose non-RDF sense
22:33:24 [sbp]
* sbp smacks himself
22:34:07 [AaronSw]
sorry, gotta run -- dinner
22:34:14 [sbp]
why would you want to nest the statement you gave above and assert it?
22:34:17 [sbp]
Oh, fair enough :-)
22:34:20 [sbp]
c'ya!
22:34:33 [AaronSw]
I don't want to nest it -- i simply want to talk about it
22:34:33 [AaronSw]
c'ya
22:34:44 [AaronSw]
we'll pick this up again! ;)
22:34:55 [AaronSw]
eof.sf.net
22:34:57 [sbp]
:-)
22:58:33 [sbp]
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22:59:42 [Morbus]
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23:09:53 [Morbus]
hey aaron, did you see the blogger script for scriptMenu?
23:12:20 [Morbus]
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23:27:00 [Morbus]
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23:32:19 [sbp]
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23:37:09 [Morbus]
hey there sbp
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23:39:39 [AaronSw]
blogger script? no...
23:40:07 [AaronSw]
Zeno
23:40:39 [AaronSw]
Zeno's paradox is reducible to proving that the sum of the infinite series for the reciprocals of the powers of two is < 2.
23:40:43 [AaronSw]
or some number like that
23:41:19 [Morbus]
yah, it lets you to post to blogger using apple's xml-rpc/soap stuff.
23:41:43 [AaronSw]
neato
23:42:00 [Morbus]
yeah :)
23:42:05 [AaronSw]
But I think IRC->Weblog would be cooler. ;)
23:42:14 [Morbus]
heheh...
23:43:57 [Morbus]
revising the design doc for the latest bit of software i'm working on
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23:44:11 [AaronSw]
Hi sean
23:44:25 [sbp]
Hi there
23:45:34 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw cleans up his photo albums
23:47:24 [AaronSw]
heh
23:47:34 [AaronSw]
I need to chump this one: http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=6314
23:48:53 [AaronSw]
Where's Eric's version?
23:53:56 [AaronSw]
hello?
23:53:57 [Morbus]
darkwing duck!
23:54:04 [Morbus]
lets get dangerous!
23:54:08 [Morbus]
when there's trouble,you call dw!
23:54:18 [Morbus]
* Morbus scurries back into the corner.
23:54:26 [sbp]
s/lets/let's