00:33:12 logster has joined #swhack 00:33:12 topic is: Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut! 00:33:12 Users on #swhack: logster Morbus sandro tav` tav AaronSw deltab 00:39:43 Morbus has quit 00:57:32 sbp has joined #swhack 01:09:04 sbp has quit 01:45:59 Morbus has joined #swhack 01:48:10 Morbus has quit 02:26:35 sbp has joined #swhack 02:26:55 wow, good timing! 02:27:06 I just got home 2 seconds ago 02:27:23 Well, there ya go :-0 02:27:28 s/:-0/:-) 02:27:47 But I can't stay... I'm on the expensive connection, just grabbing a file 02:27:49 heh 02:27:55 Oh, why the expensive one? 02:28:12 Sheesh, 300 new messages 02:28:21 The powers that be forced me too 02:29:07 sbp has quit 02:29:12 sbp has joined #swhack 02:29:30 gbmrrmgmrblrr 02:34:52 sbp has quit 02:42:33 sbp has joined #swhack 02:42:40 wb 02:42:49 Woo! 02:42:51 ty 02:42:58 np 02:49:24 * sbp downloads IE6... again! 02:56:00 BSXN? How different from RELAX's non-XML syntax? 02:56:32 Aaaaaargh! Someone found my little secret 02:56:44 RELAX's non-XML syntax, dunno 02:57:02 I think you mean BXSN, BTW 02:57:21 Yeah. 02:57:38 Clark (?) did a RELAX non-XML for RDF. 02:57:49 Looked pretty good, and it passed most test cases, apparently. 02:58:01 Woohoo, http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/seybold_01/ is up. 02:58:06 Why wasn't that there when I was looking for it? 02:58:34 Do you have the URI for that Clark thing? I think I came across it... 02:58:52 It's in www-rdf-comments somewher... 03:00:28 Heh: "Due to the recent events we've had to make some changes in our program... I was supposed to be introducing Steve Jobs live via satellite from Paris, France... I hope you won't be too disappointed if I introduce Steve Jobs live via Stage Right." 03:01:10 lol 03:01:26 sbp, RELAX is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2001JulSep/0238.html 03:01:31 and the resulting thread 03:02:00 cheers 03:02:23 ah, it's working... 03:02:42 what is? 03:03:01 Oh... IE6 03:03:05 er... IE5.5 03:03:16 it got stuck for some reason a second ago :-) 03:03:49 Oh dear, it does seem quite similar to BXSN 03:04:39 Hmm... something keeps beeping... 03:05:30 Man, it's bugging the crap out of me. Where's it coming from? 03:06:38 It sounds like a very, very, quiet telephone 03:06:48 hmm, PM sound? 03:07:07 PM? 03:07:17 Private Message 03:07:26 my speaker's off... 03:08:52 Sheesh, people actually think the attacks in NYC is an excuse to spam me! Grrr. 03:11:31 Heh, em copied large chunks from Semantic Web In Breadth into http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2001JulSep/0238.html 03:12:36 Heh, that beeping was the 'phone saying that it needed to be recharged 03:12:42 heh 03:19:12 From #rdfprimer: 03:19:14 +sean 03:19:15 lol! 03:19:18 What was so funny? 03:20:24 Hmm... I dunno. I made a few jokes though. Where's the transcript? 03:20:28 is it online? 03:20:45 Yeah... http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfprimer/ should have it 03:21:13 Wanna share the jokes? (Eric didn't log them... hmmph, I always log jokes that make fun of _him_!) 03:21:36 Hmm... I'm not sure if I remember them... 03:22:04 One was where we were talking about putting in a section about how to gain financially from RDF 03:22:10 (Guess who started that) 03:22:29 Ora? 03:22:40 And I said, "actually, if we did rename the primer 'How To Make Money With RDF', at least we'd get a lot more people reading it" 03:22:46 Ora: of course 03:22:53 Heh! 03:23:07 "How to Make Money on the Internet" would do even better! 03:23:25 Yeah :-) We could start sending RDF spam 03:23:34 Hmm, it was a short telecon. 03:23:50 About 1:18 03:24:07 It was great hearing them all! 03:24:22 Yeah, I bet. You guys will have to repeat it for me! :) 03:24:29 :-) 03:24:40 To the word! 03:24:46 I suppose you didn't record it for me... :( 03:24:55 I started, but gave up 03:25:03 Really? 03:25:11 Yeah 03:25:16 I was going to set up an automated system to dial-in and record it into MP3, but didn't have time to set it up 03:25:20 I figured someone else would be doing it 03:25:29 wow, that'd be great 03:25:34 Gotta run 03:25:40 c'ya 03:26:32 * AaronSw finds himself jumping up and down and screaming "Give me 10.1 already!" 03:26:33 sbp has quit 03:29:40 Whoo! Beatles songs in the keynote! 03:31:27 Whoo, accessibility features! 03:31:53 "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein 03:32:12 AaronSw has changed the topic to: "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein 03:38:51 sbp has joined #swhack 03:39:20 Ah, IE6... 03:39:25 Cool new logo, too 03:40:32 5.1/OSX has a new logo too... 03:40:42 But I have to wait until Saturday to get it... :-( 03:40:50 He he he 03:52:10 Whoo, Tony Hawk. This is getting to be a good keynote. :) 03:52:29 Tony who? 03:52:45 Tony Hawk! .. Famous skateboarder. 03:52:51 Ooh, and the Monsters, Inc. Trailer. 03:53:04 Oh, of course! 03:53:08 Heh: "Did you lose weight? ... Or a limb?" 04:04:29 Whoo, Sal Sagoian!!! Yes! 04:06:26 Cool, there's Tcl OSA... Didn't know that. 04:07:13 Wow, resizing straight from browser and reloading... I need that! 04:09:51 Wow, Sal's stuff is awesome! 04:10:30 He's using a public SOAP service to do temperature based queries and update an SVG map with the proper colors in relation to the current temperatures! 04:14:48 Sal rocks the house, man! 04:14:53 Go Sal! 04:15:08 Sal? 04:15:17 Sal Sagoian, AppleScript Guru 04:15:27 He's the guy who understands bringing systems and products together. 04:15:31 The stuff he does is incredible. 04:16:09 He just did a demo where he made a real-estate brochure by pulling data out of a database, reformatting it into paragraphs, sticking it into a publishing template, grabbing relevant folders out of a photo, resize them, scale them and put them in place... 04:16:16 All of this was scripted and done at the click of a button! 04:17:00 wow 04:18:58 He had another demo where he was manipulating an on-disk news-page from aggregated RSS feeds using only a speech interface. 04:19:11 Only on a Mac, baby! 04:19:21 And you can do this all from Python now: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5823 04:19:34 Plus, by the end of this year you should be able to give it a full Macintosh UI! 04:20:10 He he he:- 04:20:12 [[[ 04:20:12 it is nice having the Linux kernel in CVS as if you want xfs file system you need to check out SGI's kernel and they are sane, unlike Linus, and keep it in cvs 04:20:12 well that sentence is a bit redundant :P 04:20:12 sentences, eh? They go out of date so fast these days... 04:20:14 ]]] 04:22:43 Heh. 04:25:53 Mac OS X is the only OS that makes me shiver with excitement! Apple is still incredible... 04:29:13 I'll bet it's not all that configurable 04:29:21 Sure it is! 04:29:30 Totally configurable -- Mac users insist it. 04:30:07 O.K., can you make all of the files display as partial path names in a folder? 04:31:08 Partial path names? 04:31:29 Like you want to see all the files in your hard drive in a big list? 04:31:33 Sure, you can do that. 04:31:38 yeah. So in folder /a/, /a/b/c/ displays as "b/c/" and so on 04:31:50 Oh, I see. 04:31:53 Hmm... 04:31:56 but, as files in that directory 04:32:08 that'd be pretty cool... I've always wanted that 04:32:17 but just for some directories 04:32:25 Hmm, perhaps send in a feature request: http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/ 04:32:33 can you imagine it for just the hard drive! Eek 04:32:33 I can't think of how to do that. 04:32:38 Heh! 04:32:46 Well, you can do it as an outline view. 04:32:51 just pop open all the folder boxes... 04:33:00 I suppose you can do that on Windows too. 04:33:14 yep 04:33:22 just do a search, or whatever 04:33:30 display in list form... 04:34:22 Or pop open the terminal and do a find . 04:34:34 Oh, I guess you can't do that in Windows. ;) 04:34:56 terminal? 04:35:49 Yeah, Terminal in Mac OS X -- just pop open a standatd UNIX Terminal. 04:35:52 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be coming back in just a moment. Please bear with us during the accompanying splits. 04:36:20 blargh 04:36:24 like DOS? 04:36:35 Well, yeah, but so much more useful. 04:36:37 UNIX rocks, man. 04:36:42 cvs update! 04:37:03 ChanServ has changed the topic to: 04:38:09 UNIX, UNIX, UNIX! :) 04:38:24 AaronSw has changed the topic to: "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein 04:40:20 but with Windows... er... 04:46:15 LOL: "Libraries have a wonderful image," complained AAP president Pat Schroeder -- while in her twisted view of reality, they are taking away royalties from the poor, starving authors. 04:46:40 cite: http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/9/27/133145/146 04:46:45 cf. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=digest&contentId=A36584-2001Feb7 04:46:51 This channel is quite useful really, isn't it? 04:47:24 Indeed. 04:47:37 That's just awful. I was wondering when they'd go after libraries. 04:47:52 Yuck, yuck, yuck. It's so unconstitutional. 04:48:18 Cool: http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org/ 04:48:24 [[[ 04:48:26 The Public Library of Science is a non-profit organization of scientists committed to making the world's scientific and medical literature freely accessible to scientists and to the public around the world, for the benefit of scientific progress, education and the public good. 04:48:26 ]]] 04:48:33 LOL: 04:48:35 About Sklyarov, she says: "The Justice Department arrested the Russian hacker while he was in the U.S. AAP was delighted that the Justice Department was taking the Act seriously and sent a letter to the Attorney General to that effect." 04:48:50 Ugh, I want to throw up on her. 04:48:57 lol! 04:49:05 Re Public Library of Science: Now _that's_ constitutional. 04:49:12 Hmm, we should start a weblog. 04:49:18 We've got good stuff here. ;) 04:50:11 Cool! 27,924 people have agreed to: 04:50:12 [[[ 04:50:13 To encourage the publishers of our journals to support this endeavor, we pledge that, beginning in September, 2001, we will publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals that have agreed to grant unrestricted free distribution rights to any and all original research reports that they have published, through PubMed Central and similar online public resources, within 6 months of their ini 04:50:13 ]]] 04:50:16 Yeah! Damn straight 04:50:30 oops sorry, didn't mean to fuck up your quote deeley 04:51:05 Heh! 04:51:10 """"Since no software can read intent, it is impossible to give people unlimited right to copy electronically because the copy could be sent to millions." In other words: A tool is illegal if it can be used for something that is bad. Better hide your hammers and kitchen knives. """ 04:51:59 Wow: "in Germany, where scanners are artificially slowed with special drivers so that they do not fall under the photocopier category -- which would incur higher royalties -- I do not make this up" 04:51:59 That has to be the rudest possible thing to do on IRC; to fuck up someone's quote deeley. It's the equivalent of getting on a table and waving your arse in the air during a board meeting 04:52:09 Yeah, I just read that bit 04:52:15 quote deeley: LOL! I don't think it's that bad. 04:52:22 :-) 04:53:08 Terje brings up a good point: why don't we have a Blog where anything we prefix with [on] goes on it? 04:54:33 Hello? 04:55:56 Yeah, that'd be cool. 04:56:01 But you'd want to reorder stuff, and do links. 04:56:46 we could have HTTP editing mode as well; Blogspace! 04:56:48 Yo People! 04:56:48 I am here!!!!!!!!!!!! 04:56:48 THE CROWS CHEERS! 04:56:48 CrowD! 04:56:48 DOH! 04:56:49 haha 04:56:51 nice entrance ;) 04:56:53 lol 04:56:55 oops... 04:56:57 let me do that again 04:56:59 [[[ 04:57:01 Yo People! 04:57:03 I am here!!!!!!!!!!!! 04:57:05 THE CROWS CHEERS! 04:57:07 CrowD! 04:57:09 DOH! 04:57:11 haha 04:57:12 * AaronSw fecks with the quote deeley. 04:57:13 nice entrance ;) 04:57:15 lol 04:57:16 You spammed, you deserve it. 04:57:17 ]]] 04:57:19 there 04:57:23 :-) 04:57:41 Yes, live to Blogspace would be cool. 04:57:48 But we'd have to worry about the lost update problem, I suppose. 04:57:53 I didn't spam, and you missed the quote deeley 04:58:01 lost update: you should win by default 04:58:11 spam: No, I didn't It's just your client. 04:58:16 lost update: Which me? 04:59:11 you, you 04:59:27 anyway, go set it up! Do it now 04:59:33 now! 04:59:37 :-) 04:59:53 Come on, before the next Jewish holiday... 05:00:12 Heh. 05:00:18 Nah, I'll wait until BlogspacePy is out. 05:00:58 Why don't you write it yourself? 05:01:21 BlogspacePy: I am writing it. 05:01:49 So why are you waiting until it is released then? If you're writing it and waiting, then it won't get done! 05:02:03 Now you know why my software is so delayed! 05:02:04 :) 05:02:21 <[deleted]> I demonstrated a fair amount of self-control by not date-raping her - she had me over at her house, giving her a massage *in her bed* an then got freaky when I tried to feel her up 05:02:25 aha! the truth is out 05:02:36 Hmm... 05:07:56 tav, have you seen http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=comments&sid=2001/9/27/133145/146&cid=2#2 ? 05:08:21 Ooh, great quote: 05:08:21 "The VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman alone." - Jack Valenti, MPAA 05:08:32 Wow, where did sandro come from? 05:08:50 9:16 AM 05:09:26 where? 05:09:41 Beats me... 05:09:53 * sbp beats Aaron 05:10:02 No, I used the plural, dumbo. 05:10:11 * sbp now has Mozilla installed 05:10:15 yeah, I know... 05:10:41 I thought you were using a new grammar form 05:11:00 Pfft. Wait until the Blindfold grammar comes out. 05:11:31 :-) 05:14:04 Hmm, I didn't know Sandro has an SWWS position paper: 05:14:05 http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:nW1K5znXeaM:www.semanticweb.org/SWWS/program/position/soi-hawke.pdf+%22sandro+hawke%22+bi&hl=en 05:17:08 I still don't understand why the UN hired Angelina Jolie: 05:17:09 http://www.nandotimes.com/entertainment/story/108858p-1227746c.html 05:18:16 Ooh, IE6's privacy feature is pretty cool 05:20:29 Gotta run 05:20:32 bye 05:20:36 get that blog set up! 05:20:38 c'ya 05:20:42 heh, someday... 05:20:48 sbp has quit 05:25:36 Steve Newcomb strikes again: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xml-sig/1998Jun/0358.html 05:25:40 http://www.techno.com/ 05:25:47 [[[ 05:25:48 These domain names were first offered for sale on July 18, 2001. TechnoTeacher, Inc. was the original registrant (back in 1992), and they have never been used by any other company or for any purpose other than to promulgate SGML/XML-related standards and technology. TechnoTeacher Inc. was dissolved on December 31, 2000, and I am now the owner of its assets. TechnoTeacher's successor, and the owner of its GroveMinder technology, is Epremis Corpor 05:25:49 ]]] 05:25:51 Interestng. 05:34:23 -- 05:34:25 (Thanks to Wesley Felter's site Hack the Planet[1] for these pointers.) 05:34:26 Interesting new organization, the Liberty Alliance, has formed: 05:34:26 http://projectliberty.org/ 05:34:29 Charter members include: American Airlines, Apache, Cingular Wireless, Cisco Systems, CollabNet, Dun and Bradstreet, eBay, GM, Intuit, Openwave, O'Reilly, RealNetworks, RSA Security, Sony, Sprint, Sun Microsystems, Travelocity, United Airlines, Verisign, and more. 05:34:30 Microsoft considers joining: 05:34:30 http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/27/010927hnliberty.xml 05:34:31 [1] http://wmf.editthispage.com/ 06:19:43 -- 06:19:49 Quick, start up the sbp fan club! 06:19:51 Sean knows everything 06:19:55 :) 06:23:51 -- 06:24:10 I'm working on the ideal Python RDF API. Thoughts? (Especially from sbp...) 06:38:14 -- 06:38:23 Ugh, now that I've taken the SAT I'm getting all this college spam. 06:38:45 Since they're clearly making so much money by renting my name out, why do I have to pay for the stupid test? 06:39:04 Good thing I didn't give them my email address -- only paper spam. 06:40:17 I also got a great thing trying to get me to sign up for a teenage focus group. 06:40:56 It classified teenagers into like 10 different groups... skateboarders, do-good-in-schoolers, bookworms, music-lovers, scifi/fantasy, etc. 06:41:02 It was sort of depressing. 06:42:36 -- 06:42:50 WikiPedia seems to be doing rather well. Good for them! 06:42:55 http://www.wikipedia.com/ 06:43:11 I wonder what Wiki they use. 06:48:10 -- 06:48:39 LOL, someone submitted a feature request to the IE/Mac team with a proposed "what do you want to do with this file" dialog box with new button: 06:48:58 "VIEW USING THE D**N BROWSER!" 06:49:15 In case it wasn't clear enough, he annotated this button with a sticky: "Here is the button we need" 06:49:35 A lot like Lynn's request to the browser folk. 06:49:40 hehe 06:49:47 Links has that :-) 06:50:14 But I bet it isn't labeled as nicely! :) 06:52:00 http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/wallace2.html (via deltab) 06:53:35 via dash in #python 06:59:01 -- 06:59:11 Guiness Book of World Records strikes again: 06:59:11 http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_409528.html?menu=news.latestheadlines 07:06:25 -- 07:06:34 Heh, a Jan Grant .sig: "Leverage that synergy! Ooh yeah, looking good! Now stretch - and relax." 08:00:19 deltab has quit 08:03:26 deltab has joined #swhack 08:04:32 what blew up this time, deltab? 08:43:19 -- 08:43:24 Heh, some people are so gullible: 08:43:26 http://www.slowwave.com/Img/s01/sMAKali.gif 08:45:41 -- 08:47:04 I hate this contradiction proof of the "greatest integer" -- it's clear that anyone who believes in a greatest integer is not going to believe that N +1 > N is always true. 08:47:25 Lots of people i've seen think infinity is the greatest integer, and that infinity +1 = infinity 11:43:10 -- 11:43:16 Heheh, http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/on_tv_tonight_3734.html 11:44:27 on Nickelodeon: "Clarissa Explains the Attack on America / SpongeJohn SquareAshcroft / Rugrats Rising" 12:25:09 -- 12:25:16 Reagle's third personality: http://goatee.net/ 12:25:23 A sXe anarchist FoRKing MIT alum 12:48:40 AaronSw has quit 12:54:03 sandro has quit 13:03:31 AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:07:27 Ann Apps is such a great name for someone working on RDF! 13:24:51 AaronSw has quit 13:55:38 AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:57:50 AaronSw has quit 17:35:47 Morbus has joined #swhack 17:36:19 i can't believe it. i have to pay $9.95 for 10.1 17:36:22 Morbus has left #swhack 17:42:21 AaronSw has joined #swhack 17:44:17 Caroline Rose, one of the best technical writers: http://linus.differnet.com/crose/ 17:44:23 Imagine if we got her for the Primer... 17:44:35 -- 17:44:46 I just had the most beautiful mind bomb, if I do say so myself. 17:44:56 It hit me walking on the way to the train station from school. 17:45:26 I want to bookmark this moment, since I think all of the Internet may be rebuilt in this image. 17:45:37 Not that I was the first to think of it, of course. 17:46:43 Unlike a normal bomb, where you try to dodge the shrapnel, with a mind bomb, you try to catch them all, as each contains a beautiful related idea. 17:47:21 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Sep/0067.html 18:06:35 -- 18:11:01 Hmm, apparently it hit Danny/Ralph/Eric at about the same time it hit me. 18:16:38 -- 18:17:05 Google makes the most interesting connections... Who'da thought that "danny ralph w3c" would lead to a Ralph Nater "get out the vote" letter. 18:17:09 -- 18:17:15 Ann Apps is a geography pedant to boot! 18:17:28 """Kinderscout is the 'peak' of the UK Derbyshire Peak District 18:17:28 (though rather a misnomer because it's a flat-topped hill covered in 18:17:28 a peat bog), 2008 feet at its highest point, and just up the road 18:17:28 from where I live.""" 18:19:54 -- 18:20:08 Peter Patel-Schneider: "I'm not happy at all with the fact that RDF has a 51 paragraph document just to define what a literal is." 18:20:13 I don't think many other people are either. 18:20:14 -- 18:20:20 Hmm, if this was a weblog it'd be really long... 18:22:06 -- 18:22:07 Dave Winer on Adobe's adoption of RDF: "Adobe is doing something new with XML, but it's hard to figure out what it is from the press release." 18:24:12 Press release talk strikes again. 18:28:11 -- 18:28:21 Philip Greenspun checks in: http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000tZf&topic_id=Ask%20Philip&topic= 18:28:37 "Janine and Mike Sisk at furfly.net just launched the New York Review of Books site. You can read Susan Sontag, powered by OpenACS. What better proof that ACS has entered the intellectual mainstream?" :-) 18:32:42 -- 18:33:59 Wow, Google hired Peter Norvig: http://www.norvig.com/ 18:34:24 He's apparently teaching their servers to search: "Director of Machine Learning" 18:36:01 via that PhilipG page, via David Cohen 19:22:32 sbp has joined #swhack 19:22:56 Hi there. 19:23:03 Hi Aaron 19:23:05 I've had quite a day. 19:23:13 Yes! I got your email 19:23:25 Ahh, yes. 19:23:47 I forgot to go to sleep last night. 19:23:55 Wow! 19:23:55 DId you see that benny_g hung out on #rdfig for a bit? 19:24:10 nope... I'm just about to review the logs 19:24:18 sleep: Yeah, it's the first time that's happened to me. 19:24:34 But I slept thru math class, so it was OK. 19:24:36 How on Earth could you "forget"? 19:24:40 Math: heh 19:24:55 got in engaging discussions with sandro, danbri, etc. 19:25:09 Next thing I knew I had to wake up in an hour. 19:25:30 He he he 19:25:57 Ah... 19:25:57 05:22:16 sbp has quit 19:25:57 05:45:41 benny_g has joined #RDFIG 19:26:02 Um... 19:26:03 [[[ 19:26:04 05:22:16 sbp has quit 19:26:04 05:45:41 benny_g has joined #RDFIG 19:26:04 ]]] 19:26:15 Heh. 19:26:20 lol! 19:26:21 [[[ 19:26:21 06:20:08 Yes, Sean (sbp) has pointed me to some of your work. 19:26:22 06:20:30 Sean knows everything 19:26:23 ]]] 19:26:29 :-) 19:26:35 The beginning of the sbp fan club. 19:26:41 I think he meant that I know all of his work... 19:26:57 Hmm, perhaps the fan club started long ago. 19:28:25 Heh: 19:28:27 16:28:12 aha! got rdfx.rng to parse using yapp-generated parser. 19:28:27 16:29:11 hmm... not sure what the point of that excercise was, not that I've done it. Maybe I learned something about RELAX NG 19:30:52 :-) 19:31:10 Apparently the mind bomb hit em and company the same time it hit me. How cool! 19:31:34 the what? 19:32:09 The mind bomb... the thing I sent to www-archive. 19:32:18 06:24:10 I'm working on the ideal Python RDF API. Thoughts? (Especially from sbp...) 19:32:23 yeah, use SWIPT :-) 19:32:26 See the logs for more about mind bombs. 19:32:30 Oh, that deeley 19:32:35 SWIPT, pfft. It is nowhere near perfection. 19:32:50 true 19:33:21 Although, I'm worried mine is a bit too abstract. 19:33:24 It's very cool though. 19:33:37 I just have Nodes, and they have properties, like log:uri (if they're not anonymous);. 19:33:49 Triples are just special types of nodes with an rdf:subject, etc. properties attached 19:34:11 Rebuilding the Internet on triples stores. I'm going to have to play the skeptic, having come up with a similar idea for servers a while ago 19:34:35 So? What's the problem. 19:34:44 it drove me nuts trying to implement it! 19:34:47 * AaronSw is determined not to let past failures of this idea deter his enthusiasm. 19:34:53 implement: well, that's your fault! 19:35:15 I thought it was a good idea, but it's really hard to store everything as URIs/remain location independent etc. 19:35:41 and I only thought of it for a server... the Internet is quite a few stages on from that! 19:35:50 How is it hard? 19:36:05 * sbp tries to find the notes through FTP 19:36:14 Sure, it's a fun project -- as is the Semanic Web -- but I'm not sure I'd call it "hard". 19:36:45 rewiring the Internet? I'd call that hard 19:36:52 Not technically hard, politically 19:37:29 Oh man, my server is a right mess. Actually, that's why I came up with the idea, to manage my information for me 19:37:46 Yes, I meant technically hard. 19:37:51 Aha, I called it XHS 19:37:59 grmgprgmgrph http://infomesh.net/xhs/ 19:38:01 The politics can sort themselves out for many things. 19:38:20 Whoo! Date-free strikes again ;) 19:38:24 Hmm, nice 404. 19:38:33 Oh, it's not a 404. 19:38:41 Nope... 19:38:54 date-free: because I thought it was sooooo important 19:39:01 :) 19:39:27 I was thinking that once we finish rewiring the Internet, we can rebuild operating systems around a mesh principle. 19:39:38 Oh actually, I may have written it up on QuickWeb. Aha! Only, QuickWeb is currently broken... 19:39:45 The mesh makes it very easy to do CVS-like stuff, since every version is around unless deleted. 19:40:08 interesting: http://infomesh.net/xhs/meta/_2001_ 19:40:42 Interesting. 19:41:03 Oh, I remember this -- you wanted to rebuild your server around an RDF database. 19:41:31 yeah. Can you remember where I pointed you to? 19:41:31 I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said your idea was "just for servers". 19:41:41 yeah, me too :-) 19:42:15 Pointed me to: As I recall, it was never that finished. I poked you to use AOLserver instead and you got distracted. 19:44:25 Ah, I think I've got it 19:44:50 http://infomesh.net/quickweb/qwml/ObjectWeb.xml 19:44:57 [[[ 19:44:58 After looking through all of the SWAG/W3C/PURL persistence stuff, and thinking about URIs, and collaborative HyperSpace tools, such as QuickWeb, Blogspace, Amaya and so on... I formed a very vague and tenuous idea for "ObjectWeb". 19:44:59 ]]] 19:45:03 Interesting: http://www.ptb.be/international/WTC/Dijvu.htm 19:45:12 [[[ 19:45:13 Why can't servers store all of the mappings in RDF and then send you resources you want based on that, rathar than some stupid file system? 19:45:14 ]]] 19:45:54 If I can say so, that was one of your wackier ideas. 19:45:54 wow, that is interesting 19:46:43 isn't it? 19:47:00 yeah; it was a late night series of rants. I only worked on it when I was really tired 19:47:08 Heh. 19:47:22 That probably means there's the gem of something useful in there. 19:47:47 Yes :-) Well, it relates quite well to your latest idea, don't you think? 19:48:22 Only in a vague, sort of theoretical sense, I guess. 19:48:45 Of course, I'm not sure I would know, not being sure I understood the original idea in the first place! 19:49:19 :-) 19:49:34 Well, your rant today reminded me of that 19:49:51 Yes, I definitely see the connection. 19:58:31 sbp has quit 20:55:11 sbp has joined #swhack 20:55:19 wb 20:55:35 ty 20:57:01 Heh: 20:57:01 [[ 20:57:06 s/[[/[[[ 20:57:06 I do not generally purchase Microsoft products, so I'm not quite 20:57:06 sure what you are referring to. 20:57:08 ]]] 20:57:30 Notice the careful wording in that sentence! 20:57:38 Yes... 20:57:46 [[[ 20:57:48 If you bought $1,000 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49. If you bought $1,000 worth of Budweiser (the beer, not the stock) one year ago, drank all the beer and traded in the cans for the nickel deposit, you would have $79. 20:57:48 ]]] 20:57:56 - http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5817 20:59:23 Pat Hayes: "Though GIGO sounds quite different when one is on the inside, right?" 20:59:30 Frank Manola: "You mean, inside watching the G flow by?" 20:59:59 lol @ Budweiser 21:00:23 Frank Manola is pretty cool 21:00:51 "Sitting on the doc of the bridge, watching the G, flow away..." 21:01:04 :-) 21:06:11 [[[ 21:06:13 Oh? I don't agree with that. We can say that literals are 21:06:13 resources (indeed, I think it's pretty clear we have to) but we 21:06:13 don't have to give them URIs, or a place in the RDF abstract 21:06:13 syntax. 21:06:13 ]]] 21:06:15 Woo! 21:07:44 So do you think we should give them URIs? 21:09:42 we don't have to give them URIs 21:09:54 I agree with what you've written 21:10:10 I know we don't have to, but do you think we should? 21:10:56 I have no objections to the "dt:" URI scheme 21:11:43 But that doesn't mean that we should... 21:11:59 I guess you've seen Jan Grant's rantings about literals, and Bijan's conversations on #rdfig 21:12:16 And Sandro's too 21:12:39 Maybe the best idea is to give every character a URI and log:concat them? 21:12:46 ;) 21:14:19 that's a very good idea 21:14:32 people will love doing that... they could make a game out of it 21:14:50 Just imagine how clean it would look in RDF/XML! 21:15:13 [ log:uri [ log:concat ("h" "t" "t" "p" ":" "/" "/" "w" "w" "w" "." "w" "3" "." "o" "r" "g" "/") ] . 21:16:18 Oh, no... you can't have literals like that. 21:16:27 s/"h"/l:h/ 21:16:45 s/./] . 21:16:52 well, regardless 21:16:54 xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"> 21:16:54 21:16:54 21:16:54 21:16:54 sbp has quit 21:17:06 sbp has joined #swhack 21:17:24 Too much too fast, perhaps? 21:17:28 you get the gist... 21:17:48 Heh... just got to the concat 21:18:15 yeah, just saw the log 21:18:23 xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"> 21:18:23 21:18:23 21:18:23 21:18:28 h 21:18:28 rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:29 t 21:18:31 21:18:33 t 21:18:35 21:18:37 p 21:18:39 21:18:41 : 21:18:44 21:18:45 / 21:18:47 21:18:49 / 21:18:51 21:18:54 w 21:18:55 21:18:57 w 21:19:01 21:19:03 w 21:19:06 21:19:06 Enough! 21:19:07 Enough! 21:19:07 . 21:19:09 21:19:12 w 21:19:13 21:19:15 3 21:19:17 21:19:19 . 21:19:21 21:19:23 o 21:19:26 21:19:27 r 21:19:29 21:19:31 g 21:19:34 21:19:36 / 21:19:38 :-) 21:19:40 i.e., I don't think it's viable 21:20:21 Looks great to me! 21:33:50 logster has joined #swhack 21:33:50 Users on #swhack: logster @sbp tav tav` @AaronSw 21:34:24 Sheesh, how stupid can colleges get: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010925/tc/wired_classrooms_1.html 21:34:31 Hi logster! How are you today? 21:34:55 Collages with paper tissue are always pretty stupid 21:35:09 Oh, sorry... colleges... 21:36:11 Use PGP people: "As another deterrent, some classrooms at Bentley have technology that allows teachers to capture a student's e-mails or instant messages and display them on a large screen for the whole class to see." 21:36:30 Eek 21:37:08 Win for REST. Apple found that WebDAV beat the pants of its proprietary file-sharing protocol: http://itools.mac.com/1/idisknewfeatures.html 21:37:21 Now if only theyd fix those stupid gifs... 21:42:12 Rushkoff: "But this portrayal of Americans as uncaring, trivia-obsessed idiots who have 21:42:13 suddenly woken up, and are now stupid, jingoistic warmongers, is inaccurate." 21:47:32 Heh, I love it when Web specs now redirect to porno sites. 21:47:51 Especially if they're namespaces too. 21:47:58 Share! 21:48:14 The OCS RDF vocabulary was at http://alchemy.openjava.org/ 21:49:00 Heh, neat 21:49:47 Woe, chas sent me a big long patch to my "Semantic Web in Breadth" 21:49:53 Heh: ``Faculty members were finding students surfing the Net, sending instant messages, even looking at porn in some of the freshman intro classes,'' said Phillip Knutel, Bentley's director of academic technology. 21:50:01 Chas. F Munat? 21:50:08 Yeah. 21:50:18 "I did not use PUT to update the page directly because I thought you'd better check this for accuracy first. I am a good writer, but my knowledge of the SW is spotty. Make sure I didn't screw anything up before you use this." 21:51:12 Have you incd. the changes? 21:51:28 Not yet. 21:51:42 So does JosD work in Belguim? 21:51:53 Dunno; I guess so 21:52:09 Well, he probably works in Belgium rather than Belguim 21:52:23 Right. 21:52:32 less far to commute 21:52:36 And Scott sent in four Peerkat patches -- this is my lucky day, eh? 21:52:50 No way I'll be able to commit all this stuff before Shabbat starts. 21:52:54 AaronSw, you've just won $1,000,000! 21:53:11 Sorry, no can do, sbp -- I've got to commit these patches first. 21:53:14 this is what I'd be saying to you if you filled in your sweepstakes form correctly... 21:53:39 LOL! 21:54:01 the full stop after your name want outside the box. Sorry, but rules are rules 21:54:13 Oh dear. 21:54:21 A joke to cheer me up: 21:54:21 From the MacIE list: "'eventually' = after the Web and Win teams are done playing foosball with 21:54:21 the bug reports, they will eventually make it to the Mac team in a badly crumpled form." 21:54:26 Can I really PUT to logicerror.com or wherever? 21:54:36 No. At least I don't think so. 21:54:43 good 21:54:46 Want to try it on /test 21:54:47 ? 21:54:51 sure... 21:55:40 Ooh! Amaya crashed 21:56:07 I hate it when I get Bible spam. Wasn't thou shalt not spam one of the commandments? 21:56:16 er... 21:56:37 ooh, it worked! It must have saved and then crashed 21:56:38 http://logicerror.com/test 21:56:44 cool, I can wreak havoc now... 21:56:52 Are you serious? Ugh... 21:57:02 I wonder who's been busy PUTing random things. 21:57:10 :-) 21:57:19 You? I knew it! 21:58:08 Nah, I only just found out that I could do it 21:58:13 but now that I have... 21:58:47 how much does it fuck the server up to do it? 21:59:06 Don't you hate it when you leave permissions-checking code commented out? 21:59:06 I mean, the relative links don't go, I guess... 21:59:11 lol 21:59:22 What do you mean? To do what? 21:59:50 to PUT to the server 22:00:01 It doesn't mess with the server at all. 22:00:09 Ok, I think things are fixed now: http://logicerror.com/test 22:00:09 ah, that's good 22:00:58 Will you go for the $10,000,000 prize? 22:01:09 * sbp is going for it... 22:01:17 ah, crud 22:02:20 well, I'm getting a new version of Amaya. This one crashes when you PUT! 22:02:31 Heh, what's up with that? 22:03:04 Well, it's Amaya, isn't it? 22:03:16 Yeah -- I even filed a bug report on the subject. 22:03:22 They said my server was screwed up! 22:03:24 cool 22:03:24 What's up with that? 22:03:28 Heh, heh, heh 22:03:30 I'm returning a valid response! 22:03:41 Nobody said redirects weren't legal responses to a PUT! 22:04:42 I dunno, maybe somebody did. But if they did, they were wrong! 22:05:14 Tut, tut 22:05:23 Why can't you just be like everyone else, eh? 22:05:40 And return a what? No Content. How boring! 22:05:51 I mean, it sounds like an error: No Content. 22:05:59 I have content, you blasted buggy browser! 22:06:02 Hear me roar! 22:08:07 lol 22:09:41 Aaron, spring into action: Any volunteers to produce 22:09:41 a few more? 22:09:44 - DanC 22:09:52 hang on, let me do that properly... 22:09:52 context? 22:10:10 Aaron, spring into action: "Any volunteers to produce a few more?" - DanC, www-qa/www-validator 22:11:59 deltab has joined #swhack 22:12:02 I wonder if one can doodle in Amaya... it'd be nice being able to doodle in HyperText 22:12:20 doodle? 22:13:15 yeah, doodle. Scribble 22:13:33 Like do an SVG drawing? 22:13:57 I did, it works, I'm fairly satisfied 22:14:12 Pah, you? satisfied? 22:14:17 With Amaya? 22:14:28 note: "fairly" 22:14:43 actually, the interface is a bit cruddy 22:15:46 Wouldn't you love to receive this email? 22:15:50 "your bank has been hacked. information regarding Al Qaeda's and bin Ladens accounts have been captured. all information reached the US authorities. thanks for using products from checkpoint (firewall1). " 22:15:54 - http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?threadid=115122 22:16:32 * sbp wonders how much time Aaron spends reading the news, and online articles 22:16:48 Not much, really -- I only read the good ones. 22:17:07 I don't ever read the news, though. 22:18:35 Heh, that article is pretty cool 22:39:34 deltab has quit 22:39:36 deltab has joined #swhack 22:47:31 sbp has quit 22:50:59 sbp has joined #swhack 23:30:51 sbp has quit