IRC log of swhack on 2001-09-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:08:45 [logster]
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00:08:45 [benford.openprojects.net]
topic is: Help some poor, starving, injured people in need....Go see a movie.
00:08:45 [benford.openprojects.net]
Users on #swhack: logster deltab tav` tav AaronSw
00:40:50 [Morbus]
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00:51:27 [sbp]
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00:51:53 [sbp]
I think I'm getting the hang of the MT
00:52:25 [sbp]
I wondered why a b b . is false in the example
00:52:39 [sbp]
and I figured:-
00:53:31 [Morbus]
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00:55:04 [sbp]
I( a b b .) = true if <I(a),I(b)>, i.e.<1,2>, is in IEXT(I(b)); i.e. if <1,2> is in IEXT(1), which is {<1,2>,<2,1>}, but does contain <1,1> and so I( a b b .) is false .
00:55:15 [sbp]
s/does/doesn't
00:55:29 [sbp]
s/<1,2>/<1,1>
00:55:48 [sbp]
yeah... that's right:-
00:56:17 [sbp]
I( a b b .) = true if <I(a),I(b)>, i.e.<1,1>, is in IEXT(I(b)); i.e. if <1,1> is in IEXT(1), which is {<1,2>,<2,1>}, but doesn't contain <1,1> and so I( a b b .) is false .
00:57:03 [sbp]
IEXT seems to be the mapping from a predicate to a set of <s,o> pairs
01:14:22 [Morbus]
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01:17:05 [sbp]
Aaron?
01:17:09 [AaronSw]
yes?
01:17:53 [sbp]
Just imagine IEXT(IP)
01:18:24 [sbp]
if I gather correctly, it's the set of all <s,o> thingies
01:18:26 [tav`]
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01:18:46 [sbp]
i.e. every subject and object combination that RDF can have!
01:18:54 [AaronSw]
Hmm
01:19:12 [AaronSw]
I thought it was just for the current model.
01:19:21 [tav]
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01:19:48 [sbp]
er... yeah, you're right
01:19:59 [sbp]
* sbp had suddently limited RDF to this MT
01:21:01 [sbp]
that's still a lot of thingies, though
01:22:06 [tav]
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01:28:16 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. We'll be restarting services in a moment. There will be the usual accompanying splits. Thanks in advance for your understanding.
01:34:40 [ChanServ]
ChanServ has changed the topic to:
01:41:29 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: When he says he's going to take over the world, he's not kidding.
01:41:48 [sbp]
who?
01:42:02 [sbp]
sbp has changed the topic to: When tav says tav's going to take over the world, tav's not kidding.
01:42:56 [Morbus]
hey, sbp. how's life?
01:44:06 [sbp]
Same as usual
01:44:07 [sbp]
You?
01:44:23 [Morbus]
eh. getting by. trying to create an open source version of bookmarksync.com
01:44:36 [Morbus]
which i depend on dearly, but which has now turned to a pay site
01:44:38 [sbp]
Good luck
01:44:54 [sbp]
Ugh... similar thing happened to thecounter.com
01:45:14 [Morbus]
really/ you can do counters in one line of ssi ;)
01:45:28 [deltab]
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01:45:32 [Morbus]
you may want to let theendoffree.com know about thecounter.com
01:45:50 [sbp]
I use ASP now
01:45:52 [AaronSw]
tav, wtf is wrong with your IRC server?
01:46:22 [AaronSw]
ouch, it took down deltab too
02:26:13 [sbp]
Heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20010924.html
02:27:06 [AaronSw]
:-)
02:27:14 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw has been in that situation more than once.
02:27:20 [AaronSw]
Stupid @Home tech support!
02:27:25 [sbp]
Yeah...
02:27:44 [Morbus]
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02:35:27 [Morbus]
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02:41:10 [AaronSw]
Yuck! http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257
02:42:55 [sbp]
Hmm... they really should say "crackers"
02:43:30 [AaronSw]
that's the least of their problems...
03:00:08 [deltab]
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04:00:35 [AaronSw]
Ian Jacobs: "When I'm not editing specs, I like to swing dance and write comedy."
04:00:38 [AaronSw]
What a guy!
04:00:55 [sbp]
:-)
04:01:31 [AaronSw]
Perhaps he should put more of the comedy into the specs.
04:01:50 [sbp]
and vice versa?
04:02:48 [AaronSw]
More specs into the swing dancing?
04:03:33 [sbp]
no, into the comedy
04:04:26 [AaronSw]
ComedyML?
04:32:45 [sbp]
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12:36:35 [Morbus]
aaron, heard of kdx?
12:36:43 [Morbus]
hotline clone by the true hinkley ;)
12:41:58 [Morbus]
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13:09:53 [Morbus]
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13:26:25 [AaronSw]
nope, haven't heard of it
13:54:23 [AaronSw]
[deleted] has quit IRC ("It's not easy to juggle a pregnant wife and a troubled child, but somehow I managed to fit in eight hours of TV a day.")
14:58:22 [tav]
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15:19:17 [tav`]
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15:19:57 [tav`]
heh @ topic
15:20:14 [tav`]
i thought i always made it perfectly clear that i was serious about it?
16:04:52 [sbp]
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18:15:54 [AaronSw]
Perfectly clear, tav? I'm not so sure.
18:16:14 [AaronSw]
There are a lot of people who say it in a joking way, so you have to be awfully clear if you're serious.
18:43:32 [tav`]
heh
18:44:11 [tav`]
AaronSw: what can i do to make it more clear?
18:44:32 [AaronSw]
Say, "I'm not kidding about that, I'm perfectly serious."
18:44:48 [AaronSw]
Holy cow, Mac OS X 10.1 is going to f***ing rock!
18:44:49 [AaronSw]
http://www.apple.com/applescript/macosx/ascript_studio/
18:45:31 [AaronSw]
Go AppleScript team, go!
18:45:44 [AaronSw]
Now I just need to get them to support Python, too.
18:46:01 [tav`]
hmz, applescript is proprietary?
18:46:19 [AaronSw]
What does that mean?
18:46:30 [AaronSw]
The source code is closed, yes.
18:46:33 [tav`]
as in, some closed source..
18:46:36 [tav`]
right
18:47:08 [tav`]
well, i'm gonna make python RAD modules for berlin
18:47:20 [AaronSw]
Berlin?
18:47:26 [AaronSw]
The conference you mean?
18:47:29 [tav`]
and it'll own your pitiful mac os x!
18:47:36 [tav`]
berlin-consortium.org
18:47:55 [AaronSw]
We'll see about that.
18:48:29 [tav`]
http://berlin-consortium.org/images/screenshots/clock-shot.png
18:48:39 [tav`]
look at that and tell me, mac can look nicer
18:48:55 [AaronSw]
Umm, yeah.
18:48:59 [AaronSw]
That thing is ugly.
18:49:28 [tav`]
show me a mac equivalent
18:49:38 [AaronSw]
Umm, Mac clock.
18:49:44 [AaronSw]
Or do you mean the Python bit?
18:49:46 [AaronSw]
" This means that objects suchs as Graphics can be implemented out-of-process, like this Clock which is written entirely in Python by implementing the Graphic interface."
18:50:00 [tav`]
screenshot?
18:50:19 [tav`]
well, both, the ease of development and asthetic qualities (sp?)
18:51:49 [AaronSw]
hold on a sec...
18:51:50 [AaronSw]
Oh geez, i forgot! 10.1 comes out today!
18:51:50 [AaronSw]
Wooohoo!
18:55:46 [AaronSw]
Can you read TIFFs?
18:57:40 [AaronSw]
tav?
18:59:52 [tav`]
believe so
18:59:57 [tav`]
jpg and upload?
19:00:03 [tav`]
soz, going out in a sec
19:00:41 [AaronSw]
http://blogspace.com/random/clock.png
19:03:04 [AaronSw]
(for tav)
19:03:06 [tav`]
hmz
19:03:07 [AaronSw]
you can do analog too
19:03:07 [tav`]
is it me or is that top 1/8th of a clock?
19:03:07 [AaronSw]
try reloading
19:04:05 [tav`]
it's nice
19:04:08 [tav`]
but not as nice imo
19:04:31 [AaronSw]
hmm
19:04:56 [AaronSw]
I guess my sense of style coincides better with Jobs than with you, then
19:06:18 [tav`]
hmz, wait till you see my stuff, the whole world shalt drool over it!
19:06:50 [AaronSw]
heh
19:07:07 [tav`]
and why can't microsoft release something as nice as entourage for the PC?
19:07:19 [AaronSw]
because the mac inspires good design
19:07:28 [AaronSw]
the pc's design sucks
19:07:51 [tav`]
hmz
19:08:36 [tav`]
so, the hardware encourages different form of software?
19:08:51 [AaronSw]
not the hardware, the operating system
19:08:59 [tav`]
ah
19:09:19 [AaronSw]
Gates has no sense of style, and thus his programmers and developers follow in his lead
19:09:23 [tav`]
*nod*
19:09:34 [AaronSw]
whereas Jobs increases the quality of everything around him, because he demands perfection
19:10:25 [tav`]
heh
19:10:59 [tav`]
now, if macs would work on x86 architecture..
19:11:06 [tav`]
ehm
19:11:11 [tav`]
mac os x
19:11:26 [AaronSw]
yes, well...it could.. but i doubt apple would do that
19:11:31 [tav`]
continue this tonite
19:11:37 [tav`]
laters
19:11:50 [AaronSw]
c'ya
20:01:52 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> Quick clarification needed from em:
20:01:59 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> Do we call you Supreme Ruler, Fearless Leader or Vegemite Boy?
20:02:42 [AaronSw]
<em> err... you can call me eric
20:02:42 [AaronSw]
<em> hows that?
20:02:42 [AaronSw]
<em> :)
20:02:42 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> But we needed a more formal title.
20:02:42 [AaronSw]
<em> who is 'we'?
20:02:43 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> "Let me clear that with Eric" just doesn't work, you see.
20:02:45 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> we = the semantic web masses
20:02:47 [AaronSw]
<em> :)
20:02:49 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> Much better to say, "I have to check with Fearless Leader".
20:02:51 [AaronSw]
* em thinks AaronSw has too much time on his hands :)
20:02:53 [AaronSw]
* em notes to do something about this
20:02:55 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> hey! it comes up quite a bit
20:02:57 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> Fine, i'll go with vegemite boy then.
20:02:59 [AaronSw]
<em> :)
20:03:01 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> "Hold on a sec while I ask Vegemite Boy."
20:03:03 [AaronSw]
<em> hmm... doesn't have that authoritative ring i think you were looking for
20:03:05 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> eh, I dunno
20:03:17 [AaronSw]
* em recombines and comes up with Supreme Vegemite Leader
20:03:26 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> much better!
20:05:49 [AaronSw]
<em> how about Activity Lead ... going traditional with what the business card says :)
20:05:57 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> No one can understand that.
20:09:24 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> Well then we'll have to stick with Supreme Vegemite Leader
20:09:24 [AaronSw]
<em> :)
20:09:29 [AaronSw]
<em> SVL for short
20:09:41 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> Done!
20:47:46 [AaronSw]
--
21:58:26 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. One of our main hubs, farmer, is getting ready to reboot for an upgrade to FreeBSD 4.4. It will be rebooting several times before the server comes back. Please bear with us and apologies for the inconvenience.
22:00:25 [AaronSw]
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22:00:35 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Here we go.
22:20:25 [Morbus]
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22:23:35 [AaronSw]
hi morbus
22:23:56 [AaronSw]
read the beginning of that futurama comic you showed us the other day...
22:24:10 [AaronSw]
... poor treehuggers
22:24:44 [Morbus]
hehehe...
22:24:58 [Morbus]
you went and picked it up?
22:25:27 [AaronSw]
nah, my brother had a copy
22:25:30 [Morbus]
btw, you can buy 10.1 off apple's site, but the stores don't get it until sat.
22:25:38 [Morbus]
i wonder if the retail's are getting the upg cd.s
22:25:39 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I know
22:25:45 [Morbus]
i really dont' want to snailmail my receipt
22:25:46 [AaronSw]
... called up every store around
22:25:58 [AaronSw]
Yes, stores get upg. CDs but not developer tools.
22:26:08 [AaronSw]
And they're free!
22:26:13 [Morbus]
wha? that sucks
22:26:29 [Morbus]
how the hell are we supposed to get the devtools
22:26:33 [AaronSw]
i'm sure you can download developer tools, tho
22:26:38 [AaronSw]
you could download the old ones
22:27:20 [Morbus]
poo.
22:27:26 [Morbus]
ah twell.
22:27:31 [Morbus]
brb
22:28:44 [AaronSw]
10.1 looks so cool, especially the AppleScript / Perl integration.
22:28:53 [AaronSw]
Now they just need to replace perl with Python. ;-)
22:33:37 [AaronSw]
Hmm, looks like the site only has the May 2001 Dev tools.
22:33:59 [AaronSw]
Guess they haven't updated it yet.
22:37:50 [Morbus]
hehehe. perl and python. sheesh.
22:38:10 [Morbus]
i wonder how niecly i could make an applescript gui <g>
22:38:16 [Morbus]
hooking into perl
22:38:38 [Morbus]
god. it's so sexy when i drip steak juice all over my body and my cat comes to lick me dry.
22:38:49 [AaronSw]
More than I needed to know. ;-)
22:39:03 [AaronSw]
... Quick, get the webcam up!
22:39:06 [Morbus]
heh. i don't have a cat.
22:39:14 [Morbus]
i justsent that to a vegetarian <g>
22:39:23 [AaronSw]
lol
22:42:17 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be coming up momentarily.
22:43:52 [Morbus]
seen this?http://www.apple.com/applescript/macosx/script_menu/
22:44:32 [AaronSw]
Yeah, that's what I was referring to above.
22:44:49 [AaronSw]
Web services, applescript studio... i'm drooling ;)
22:44:52 [Morbus]
ah.
22:44:58 [Morbus]
heheh :)
22:45:22 [ChanServ]
ChanServ has changed the topic to:
22:45:25 [AaronSw]
I assume that when they say Perl, they're mean anything that supports shbang or whatever
22:45:38 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] That should do it for now, thanks for your patience.
22:46:06 [Morbus]
well, even if they didn't, you could just perl off to the shell.
22:46:07 [Morbus]
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22:46:08 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Drool: http://www.apple.com/macosx/
22:46:14 [Morbus]
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22:46:38 [AaronSw]
Heh, "The biggest breakthrough since point and click"
22:46:43 [AaronSw]
I wouldn't go that far.
22:46:46 [Morbus]
um <g>
22:47:15 [AaronSw]
You need to learn how to use your IRC client, Morbo.
22:53:25 [AaronSw]
Woohoo!!! 10.1 works with my camera!
22:57:21 [Morbus]
oh? what'd i do stupidly now.
22:57:24 [Morbus]
and where are you seeing that?
22:57:35 [AaronSw]
on the macosx website
22:57:44 [AaronSw]
gotta run, dinner
22:57:49 [AaronSw]
c'ya in a bit
22:57:55 [Morbus]
yup
23:16:35 [sbp]
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23:21:14 [AaronSw]
hi sean
23:21:19 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw returns
23:21:32 [sbp]
Hi Aaron
23:21:33 [sbp]
wb
23:21:51 [AaronSw]
thanks
23:22:45 [sbp]
np
23:22:59 [AaronSw]
s/thanks/tx/
23:23:04 [sbp]
I got you're email. I'm currently engaged in a GL thread...
23:23:10 [sbp]
:-)
23:23:18 [AaronSw]
Do you have a response?
23:23:26 [sbp]
To what?
23:23:38 [AaronSw]
my email...
23:23:54 [sbp]
Written? Not yet
23:24:00 [AaronSw]
hmm, what email are you thinking of?
23:25:54 [sbp]
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23:34:48 [AaronSw]
wb
23:35:01 [sbp]
ty
23:35:08 [sbp]
what were we discussing?
23:35:09 [AaronSw]
np
23:35:22 [AaronSw]
Did you get my email about the telecon for the primer
23:35:23 [AaronSw]
?
23:35:34 [AaronSw]
Outline at: http://www.w3.org/2001/09/rdfprimer/
23:35:43 [sbp]
yeah... oh, you must have missed that bit
23:35:53 [AaronSw]
<sbp> Written? Not yet
23:35:53 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> hmm, what email are you thinking of?
23:35:53 [AaronSw]
*** sbp has quit IRC (Read error to sbp[ACA30A13.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer)
23:35:59 [sbp]
I said that I obviously couldn't dial into the call, so it looks unlikely
23:36:10 [sbp]
* sbp retrieves his log
23:36:11 [AaronSw]
Hmm, we could dial you in, no?
23:36:26 [AaronSw]
Like I did last time.
23:36:27 [sbp]
Some Might Say is such a classy song...
23:36:35 [sbp]
if you can dial me in, I'll be there :-)
23:36:56 [AaronSw]
Great!
23:36:59 [sbp]
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23:37:13 [AaronSw]
Pff.
23:39:28 [Morbus]
anyone worked with xbel?
23:39:33 [AaronSw]
xbel?
23:39:48 [Morbus]
yah. the bookmark exchange langaugae. created by your beloved python people ;)
23:39:57 [AaronSw]
Oh, yes.
23:39:58 [sbp]
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23:40:16 [sbp]
fuck!
23:40:47 [AaronSw]
what's up with your connection?
23:40:56 [sbp]
Dunno... it just keeps caving in
23:41:53 [AaronSw]
hmm
23:42:03 [sbp]
er... what was I doing...
23:42:09 [Morbus]
getting ready to be disconnected again
23:42:19 [sbp]
:-)
23:42:20 [AaronSw]
<sbp> if you can dial me in, I'll be there :-)
23:42:20 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> Great!
23:42:26 [AaronSw]
*** sbp has left the channel
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*** sbp has quit IRC (Read error to sbp[AC8CAF29.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer)
23:42:33 [AaronSw]
--
23:42:35 [Morbus]
... wait, you'er using aol?
23:42:45 [Morbus]
we should give you pity?
23:42:47 [Morbus]
<g>
23:42:57 [AaronSw]
Yeah, look at how desperate he is!
23:43:04 [Morbus]
hehe
23:43:43 [sbp]
gimme some money!
23:44:28 [AaronSw]
heh
23:45:03 [AaronSw]
Why don't you apply for a job at ESP? They probably won't pay you, but you might get an Internet connection out of it. ;-)
23:45:10 [sbp]
[[[
23:45:11 [sbp]
<sbp> Written? Not yet
23:45:11 [sbp]
<AaronSw> hmm, what email are you thinking of?
23:45:11 [sbp]
<sbp> PRIMER: Arranging a telecon time
23:45:11 [sbp]
<sbp> Obviously, I won't be able to dial in... so it looks unlikely
23:45:11 [sbp]
*** Disconnected
23:45:12 [sbp]
Session Close: Wed Sep 26 00:27:18 2001
23:45:15 [sbp]
]]]
23:45:23 [sbp]
yo, tav, gimme a job
23:46:00 [AaronSw]
Hmm, where's that stupid dialin page!
23:46:20 [sbp]
telecon's not 'till Thursday, Aaron
23:46:33 [AaronSw]
Yeah, but I want to be prepared.
23:46:37 [sbp]
:-)
23:46:41 [sbp]
Who foots the bill?
23:47:10 [AaronSw]
Not me. ;-)
23:47:18 [sbp]
ah, that'll do then :-)
23:47:29 [Morbus]
you know, uh, if 10.1 wasn't coming out, i'd be all over paying <g>
23:47:33 [sbp]
seriously, you'd really better check it out
23:47:44 [AaronSw]
Aha! W3C Teleconference Bridge Dialout dial in dial-in http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/dialout.php3
23:47:47 [sbp]
sure Morbus, sure... :-)
23:47:59 [AaronSw]
Especially since 10.1 is free!
23:48:05 [AaronSw]
sbp, check what out?
23:48:16 [sbp]
Team ACL?
23:48:37 [AaronSw]
Honest judge, it was a GET! I can't be held reliable.
23:48:46 [sbp]
Hmm...
23:49:02 [AaronSw]
s/reliable/responsible/
23:49:07 [sbp]
Anyway, check it out with whoever pays the bill
23:49:14 [AaronSw]
The W3C, duh.
23:49:26 [AaronSw]
I'm sure Supreme Vegemite Leader will approve.
23:49:46 [sbp]
cool; don't forget to ask him
23:49:57 [sbp]
well, you blackmail him with vegemite, but it's all the same
23:50:13 [AaronSw]
<lurk-Aa> yo, Supreme Vegemite Leader, can I dial Sean in for the telecon?
23:50:24 [sbp]
aha
23:50:33 [sbp]
I should join that channel
23:50:42 [AaronSw]
I didn't actually send it to the channel.
23:50:55 [AaronSw]
You should see our talk eariler today -- I pasted (some of it) into the logs here.
23:53:31 [sbp]
* sbp kicks himself, it's member ACLed
23:53:40 [sbp]
so there you go
23:53:45 [AaronSw]
I go where?
23:53:56 [AaronSw]
I know it's Member ACLed -- I used it before, remember?
23:55:33 [sbp]
yep