IRC log of swhack on 2001-09-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:30:28 [logster]
logster has joined #swhack
00:30:28 [niven.openprojects.net]
topic is: Daniel Biddle Appreciation Day
00:30:28 [niven.openprojects.net]
Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav deltab
01:01:32 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
01:02:03 [sbp]
Daniel Biddle Appreciation Day? I thought that was yesterday?
01:02:10 [tav]
ampheta?
01:02:20 [AaronSw]
amphetadesk, tav
01:02:42 [sbp]
ta da: http://purl.org/net/esl
01:02:43 [AaronSw]
http://sourceforge.net/projects/amphetadesk
01:04:23 [sbp]
"esl:" is the scheme that I have been working on
01:04:34 [sbp]
as well as all of the others... ahem
01:04:56 [sbp]
What's more, I've submitted it as an Internet Draft
01:05:03 [AaronSw]
cool!
01:05:50 [sbp]
I thought I'd bypass the usual "release to uri@w3.org and get some comments about how people don't think it's a good idea" step
01:06:06 [sbp]
:-)
01:06:11 [AaronSw]
heh
01:06:27 [tav]
what's so good about ampheta?
01:06:40 [tav]
it can be created in like an hour
01:07:00 [AaronSw]
You've used it?
01:07:18 [AaronSw]
Who said there was anything good about it?
01:07:21 [tav]
no, just read http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/
01:07:23 [AaronSw]
It's just Morbus' project.
01:07:49 [AaronSw]
Apparently it takes more than an hour if you use Perl and not Python. ;-) ;-)
01:08:17 [sbp]
He he he
01:08:35 [sbp]
Are you implying that Perl sucks?
01:08:51 [tav]
for making apps, yes ;p
01:09:06 [tav]
it's great otherwise
01:09:21 [sbp]
* sbp wonders about a Python vs. Befunge-93 rant
01:09:41 [deltab]
rant?
01:09:47 [AaronSw]
What is there to rant about?
01:09:56 [sbp]
I don't come up with essays or missives, I come up with rants
01:10:23 [sbp]
* sbp wonders if he should standardize his rant format
01:10:47 [sbp]
rant about: both are intuitive and easy to pick up
01:10:53 [sbp]
except for Befunge-93
01:11:18 [sbp]
[actually, that *was* very easy to pick up, just odd to code with]
01:12:06 [sbp]
you get funny programing problems like, "if I turn this subroutine that way, will I have enough space, or will I have to bridge over that other subroutine?"
01:12:40 [sbp]
more often than not, you think you have enough space, and find out you don't, or that you do if you turn another bit of code another way, which effects another bit of code...
01:13:24 [sbp]
s/effects/affects
01:14:02 [AaronSw]
that's so weird...
01:14:06 [xena]
xena has joined #swhack
01:14:35 [AaronSw]
thanks, deltab
01:14:49 [sbp]
"wSnoraA">,# :# _@
01:15:04 [AaronSw]
.babel de-en Ich esse gern Wuerstchen, am liebsten mit Senf.
01:15:04 [xena]
I eat gladly small sausages, dearest with mustard.
01:16:10 [AaronSw]
.translate tag-eng Ito ay lumamig.
01:16:10 [sbp]
.babel de-en Was Creme versuchte die silberne Essiggurke?
01:16:11 [xena]
Which cream tried the silver essiggurke
01:16:17 [xena]
It are cool.
01:16:38 [sbp]
tag?
01:16:44 [deltab]
tagalog
01:16:54 [deltab]
used in the phillipines, iirc
01:17:25 [sbp]
.babel it-en Penso che stia andando orinare io stesso ridendo!
01:17:26 [xena]
Task that is going to orinare same I laughing
01:17:30 [deltab]
er, Philippines
01:18:14 [sbp]
what other tricks does it do?
01:18:55 [AaronSw]
Xena? all sorts of fun stuff.
01:19:01 [sbp]
like?
01:19:02 [AaronSw]
You may have seen her as hiroko.
01:19:05 [AaronSw]
.commands
01:19:05 [xena]
valid commands:
01:19:06 [xena]
- +mask, -mask, access, act, babel, billennium, change, commands, ctcp, date
01:19:07 [deltab]
flights, weather, currencies
01:19:07 [xena]
- dict, die, dns, e, email, excuse, flight, foldoc, fortune, google
01:19:08 [xena]
- help, imdb, intelliquote, isotime, jargon, join, login, masks, modules, msg
01:19:09 [xena]
- news, news on, news source, nick, nickometer, part, pig latin, plexname, quit, quote
01:19:10 [xena]
- raw, register, rot13, search, seen, server, servers, spell, status, symbol for
01:19:11 [xena]
- time, translate, unixtime, users, weather, webster, when did, whois, wn, zope commands
01:19:16 [sbp]
her?
01:19:19 [deltab]
the ubiquitous stock quote
01:19:30 [AaronSw]
x import urlparse
01:19:41 [AaronSw]
deltab, can you add hostmasks for me?
01:19:49 [deltab]
I can try
01:20:18 [AaronSw]
AaronSw!*@*.hlndpk1.il.home.com is fine
01:20:58 [deltab]
.+mask aaronsw AaronSw!*@*.hlndpk1.il.home.com
01:21:07 [deltab]
user does not exist
01:21:12 [deltab]
register
01:21:26 [AaronSw]
I did!
01:21:34 [deltab]
hmm
01:21:37 [AaronSw]
<xena> Notice: error: user already exists
01:21:45 [AaronSw]
Maybe you have the capitalization wrong?
01:21:54 [deltab]
.+mask AaronSw AaronSw!*@*.hlndpk1.il.home.com
01:21:58 [deltab]
success
01:22:01 [Morbus]
Morbus has joined #swhack
01:22:10 [AaronSw]
yay!
01:22:12 [AaronSw]
thanks deltab!
01:22:24 [AaronSw]
x import urlparse
01:22:33 [AaronSw]
pfft
01:22:39 [deltab]
.x import urlparse
01:22:46 [deltab]
.py import urlparse
01:22:50 [AaronSw]
<xena> Notice: unauthorized: access denied
01:22:52 [sbp]
Hmm... http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mealling-uri-ig-00.txt
01:23:03 [AaronSw]
.news on uri
01:23:05 [xena]
On ethics and prejudices - Haaretz Daily - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24440608
01:23:06 [xena]
Stocks Eke Out Gains on Bargain-Hunting - iWon - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24440057
01:23:07 [xena]
Stocks rally fizzles over earnings worries - CNET - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24436813
01:23:08 [deltab]
.py urlparse
01:23:09 [xena]
<module 'urlparse' from '/home/staff/killarny/Python-2.1/Lib/urlparse.py'>
01:23:24 [sbp]
.news on pink umbrellas
01:23:26 [xena]
XM Radio Turns It On - Washington Post - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24446048
01:23:27 [xena]
PETA honors Linda McCartney - USA Today - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24445467
01:23:29 [xena]
By - TheStreet.com - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24444988
01:23:35 [AaronSw]
.py urlparse.urljoin('a','b')
01:23:39 [sbp]
you have to wonder
01:23:42 [AaronSw]
phptphptpt
01:23:57 [tav]
j,z
01:24:03 [AaronSw]
j,z?
01:24:06 [tav]
have to increase your access
01:24:06 [tav]
hmz
01:24:19 [tav]
.access AaronSw 64
01:24:24 [tav]
try now
01:24:27 [AaronSw]
.py urlparse.urljoin('a','b')
01:24:32 [tav]
relogin
01:24:41 [AaronSw]
.py urlparse.urljoin('a','b')
01:24:42 [xena]
'b'
01:24:45 [AaronSw]
yay!
01:24:47 [AaronSw]
thanks tav
01:24:51 [tav]
nps
01:25:10 [AaronSw]
sbp, "McCartney, tieless in a pink shirt"...
01:25:21 [AaronSw]
.news on "pink umbrellas"
01:25:32 [sbp]
pig latin?
01:25:36 [AaronSw]
.news on "Sean B. Palmer"
01:25:43 [AaronSw]
.news rdfig
01:25:44 [xena]
[ RDFIG ] - History-Based Tools for Navigation - An amusing opening slide from my pal, Paul Ford. - Nature Web Publishing article - http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/
01:25:47 [tav]
only one word
01:25:55 [AaronSw]
ahh
01:25:57 [sbp]
.news on Sean B. Palmer
01:25:57 [deltab]
esyay
01:25:59 [xena]
Intel apologises for Bluetooth gaffe - The Register - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24445088
01:26:00 [xena]
Safeco, seeking profits, hikes homeowner rates - Puget Sound Business Journal - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24443698
01:26:01 [xena]
Injured deputy on the mend - Post and Courier - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24442456
01:26:10 [tav]
that's news on 'sean'
01:26:15 [tav]
same as i mean
01:26:21 [AaronSw]
esyay?
01:26:31 [sbp]
Oh well
01:26:38 [AaronSw]
.seen Morbus
01:26:38 [xena]
Morbus seen leaving #rdfig ~ 3 min(s) 48 sec(s) ago
01:26:40 [tav]
.pig latin pig-eng esy-ay
01:26:40 [xena]
error: Site Error occurred: UnboundLocalError
01:26:42 [tav]
hmz
01:26:50 [AaronSw]
.crash
01:26:52 [Morbus]
what does hmz mean?
01:26:52 [AaronSw]
Heh
01:27:08 [tav]
it's the meaning of life
01:27:19 [AaronSw]
Morbus, you missed tav bashing AmphetaDesk earlier. ;-)
01:27:24 [tav]
every few lines, i utter the meaning of life
01:27:27 [AaronSw]
loggy, grep ampheta
01:27:28 [tav]
AaronSw: sssssssh!
01:27:31 [Morbus]
bwahahah. yeah?
01:27:40 [Morbus]
who the hell is tav?
01:27:49 [AaronSw]
tav is supreme ruler of the world.
01:27:49 [Morbus]
hey, tav, who are you? <g>
01:27:55 [tav]
--
01:27:56 [tav]
<tav> what's so good about ampheta?
01:27:56 [tav]
<tav> it can be created in like an hour
01:27:57 [tav]
--
01:28:17 [Morbus]
heheh...
01:28:24 [Morbus]
then why aren't there a zillion of em?
01:28:39 [tav]
there are...
01:28:57 [tav]
well, i can think of 5 off me head anyways
01:29:00 [Morbus]
show me one thats crossplatform of mac / pc / linux and requires only one download for the moronic user
01:29:04 [Morbus]
name em./
01:29:20 [tav]
i dunno about mac
01:29:22 [Morbus]
* Morbus puts on boxing gloves... <g>
01:29:28 [Morbus]
ah ha! <g>
01:29:31 [tav]
mac, i only know radio
01:29:38 [AaronSw]
tav, what does plexname do?
01:29:40 [AaronSw]
help plexname
01:29:43 [Morbus]
which is confusing as hell.
01:29:46 [AaronSw]
.plexname tav
01:29:47 [xena]
http://espians.com/tav
01:29:50 [tav]
yea, radio sucks
01:29:55 [tav]
.e tav
01:29:55 [xena]
error: [Errno socket error] host not found
01:30:02 [tav]
argh, fucking thing
01:30:08 [xena]
xena has quit
01:30:18 [sbp]
aw, you hurt its feelings
01:30:42 [tav]
Morbus: gimme a min, restarting xena
01:30:48 [Morbus]
see, my main prob is that there are all these rss readers, but there's a big curve to using them.
01:30:50 [Morbus]
np
01:30:50 [sbp]
* sbp notices how #swhack is getting more and more popular...
01:31:21 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Join #swhack. Sean chats there.
01:31:28 [sbp]
lol!
01:31:43 [Morbus]
heh. brb
01:31:43 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit
01:31:48 [sbp]
For all your Sean-ish needs
01:32:03 [AaronSw]
You guys have the X wears them ad in the UK?
01:32:08 [Morbus]
Morbus has joined #swhack
01:32:18 [sbp]
Not on my T.V.
01:32:26 [Morbus]
oOoh. finally. athena finally nonantialiases the font.
01:32:46 [AaronSw]
It was a billboard ad, not a tv one.
01:33:09 [sbp]
I have a billboard right near my house... hang on a sec
01:33:25 [tav]
ah, screw it, will fix the bug later
01:33:34 [sbp]
nope
01:33:36 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw thinks billboards suck
01:33:45 [sbp]
It's not all that big
01:33:49 [AaronSw]
tav, when I try to join the espnet I get:
01:33:50 [AaronSw]
Innermost method: /espnow/x_user_prefs_set
01:33:50 [AaronSw]
Name not found or not allowed: aaronsw
01:33:53 [xena]
xena has joined #swhack
01:34:01 [AaronSw]
e tav
01:34:03 [tav]
oh, the xnet?
01:34:05 [AaronSw]
.e tav
01:34:05 [xena]
http://espians.com/tav
01:34:09 [AaronSw]
yes, the xnet
01:34:18 [tav]
yea, i have to auth you
01:34:48 [AaronSw]
.e tav Please auth Aaron and fix annoying xena bugs. Thanks. :-) -Aaron
01:34:50 [sbp]
Mi chiama Sean, pleased to meet you
01:34:58 [AaronSw]
Mi chiama?
01:35:18 [tav]
poor italian?
01:35:26 [deltab]
.translate ita-eng Mi chiama
01:35:28 [xena]
Me [chiama]
01:35:55 [AaronSw]
.translate badita-eng Mi chiama
01:35:56 [xena]
incorrect syntax. see help tranlate for more info.
01:35:59 [sbp]
I dunno how you spell it. I'm no better at spelling Italian than I am English
01:36:12 [AaronSw]
Well, spell it in English then. ;-)
01:36:21 [tav]
* tav looks at sbp
01:36:33 [AaronSw]
Thanks, tav.
01:36:40 [sbp]
hang on a second... oh, it's been too long, hasn't it?
01:36:40 [deltab]
haha, "help tranlate"
01:37:14 [tav]
you can never forget the very fist sentence you are taught in any language
01:37:18 [AaronSw]
.e sbp
01:37:25 [tav]
you are only off by one...
01:37:29 [deltab]
haha, tav's fist obsession
01:37:42 [tav]
deltab?
01:37:48 [deltab]
013847Z <tav> you can never forget the very fist sentence you are taught in
01:37:48 [deltab]
any language
01:38:01 [tav]
d'oh!
01:38:14 [tav]
it's the subliminal...
01:38:36 [tav]
* tav gives up on sbp and gloats his punitive knowledge of italian
01:38:39 [tav]
mi chiamo!
01:38:41 [sbp]
* sbp substitutes "o" for "a" and kicks the person who invented
01:38:47 [tav]
heh
01:38:58 [sbp]
er... invented... what's the word?
01:39:32 [sbp]
Guess how many languages I've tried to learn? Eh? Take a wild guess. And guess how many I speak fluently
01:39:50 [tav]
9 / 3
01:39:51 [tav]
?
01:39:53 [AaronSw]
1, 0
01:39:56 [sbp]
* sbp counts...
01:40:00 [sbp]
lol, Aaron
01:40:00 [Morbus]
i'm still learning english ;)
01:40:02 [tav]
AaronSw: ouch
01:40:25 [AaronSw]
Sean and I are good enough friends that he understands his English is bad.
01:40:35 [tav]
heh
01:40:41 [tav]
know each other offline?
01:40:56 [AaronSw]
Nah... he's too far away.
01:41:16 [tav]
english, french, latin, tamil, hindi, sanskrit, japanese, swedish, russian, arabic
01:41:30 [AaronSw]
Hmm...
01:41:31 [AaronSw]
Innermost method: /espnow/index
01:41:31 [AaronSw]
Name not found or not allowed: There is no variable named 'trust_rating'
01:41:33 [Morbus]
i know boolean. ok. i should just shut up now
01:41:43 [AaronSw]
Wow, that's impressive, tav.
01:41:59 [AaronSw]
No, seriously, sbp, how many languages do you know?
01:42:07 [sbp]
English/French/German/Italian/Russian/Catonese/Mandarin/Sanskrit/Latin/Iranian:English
01:42:07 [tav]
[ english, tamil] [french, hindi] [latin, sanskrit]
01:42:20 [sbp]
10:1
01:42:23 [tav]
heh
01:42:28 [sbp]
feeble, eh?
01:42:47 [sbp]
I was going to learn Norweigian next
01:43:00 [tav]
i can understand very basic norwegian
01:43:05 [tav]
mainly due to the swedish
01:43:19 [sbp]
first step, learn how to spell "Norwegian"...
01:43:26 [tav]
heh
01:43:43 [sbp]
it's very close to English, so I'm told
01:43:49 [AaronSw]
Hmm, what's xt?
01:43:59 [tav]
AaronSw: it'd be impressive if i were fluent in all of them
01:44:06 [tav]
(but i will be one day)
01:44:13 [AaronSw]
That will be really impressive.
01:44:57 [tav]
sbp: whats your mother tongue?
01:45:19 [tav]
imo, forget german, focus on latin and sanskrit
01:45:21 [sbp]
I have no idea
01:45:40 [tav]
ehm, you are an alien?
01:45:43 [sbp]
German is pretty terrible. Latin is quite cool, as is Sanskrit
01:45:49 [sbp]
no, I just have no idea
01:46:10 [sbp]
Oh, and Welsh! I forgot Welsh
01:46:12 [sbp]
11:1
01:46:13 [AaronSw]
.webster mother tongue
01:46:21 [AaronSw]
.webster mother tongue
01:46:22 [xena]
error: unable to define mother tongue
01:46:24 [tav]
forgive me if i'm being rude, but what etnic group are you?
01:46:33 [sbp]
English/White
01:46:39 [tav]
oh
01:46:43 [sbp]
Language/Ethnicity
01:46:57 [tav]
hmz, i'm perplexed by the not being good at english comments
01:47:20 [AaronSw]
We're just kidding him.
01:47:25 [AaronSw]
Sean's a great English speaker.
01:47:25 [tav]
your english seems excellent in the esl draft
01:47:31 [tav]
heh, yea
01:47:34 [sbp]
Aaron's just taking the piss. I'm writer of professionalism... er... profectional writer... or something
01:48:00 [AaronSw]
Oh, yes, that's why he's a bad writer. I remember now. He has a book with his name on it.
01:48:02 [tav]
* tav slaps himself
01:48:17 [AaronSw]
Don't worry, it's just one of those fake Wrox things.
01:48:39 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw has an autographed copy of "Wrox: VoiceXML" that says "To Aaron: Who knew about VoiceXML a whole year before I did."
01:48:48 [tav]
lol
01:48:56 [AaronSw]
But yet she still got the book deal! Sheesh.
01:48:58 [sbp]
Actually, it is funny; there are so many run on sentences in there, which is weird because I nenver type run on sentences, and would probably go so far as to say that run on sentences are absolutely terrible and should be avioded at all costs
01:49:32 [tav]
has xena died?
01:49:35 [tav]
.e cofe
01:49:36 [xena]
http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil//
01:49:38 [tav]
oh
01:49:39 [tav]
hmz
01:49:46 [AaronSw]
What does .e do?
01:49:49 [sbp]
hmz? Davka
01:49:56 [AaronSw]
Davka?
01:50:13 [sbp]
It's Hebrew
01:50:22 [tav]
e is an alias to plexname
01:50:24 [tav]
.e
01:50:24 [xena]
usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message>
01:50:25 [xena]
- send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to.
01:50:26 [xena]
- you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with //
01:50:27 [tav]
argh
01:50:30 [sbp]
another one on my to-do list...
01:50:30 [tav]
.plexname
01:50:31 [xena]
usage: plexname <plexname>
01:50:31 [xena]
- converts a plexname to the equivalent relative or functional uri
01:50:37 [AaronSw]
what does plexname do?
01:50:42 [Morbus]
man alive. what are those "usage" things supposed to look like? they look horrible in my irc thingy
01:50:54 [AaronSw]
Hmm, guess you don't support coloring.
01:50:55 [tav]
pelxnames is my attempt of replacing the domain name infrastructure
01:51:02 [AaronSw]
How do I get in?
01:51:04 [sbp]
.email sean@mysterylights.com [arse] I'll bet that this doesn't work
01:51:05 [xena]
email successfully sent.
01:51:27 [sbp]
* sbp eats his words... ooh, mint
01:51:29 [Morbus]
huh. it says it supports ircle colors.
01:51:37 [tav]
.email sean@mysterylights.com it does too // bwahahahahahahaa!
01:51:37 [xena]
email successfully sent.
01:51:49 [AaronSw]
.plexname AaronSw http://www.aaronsw.com/
01:51:56 [AaronSw]
.e AaronSw
01:52:00 [sbp]
a//h//a
01:52:06 [tav]
hmz, want me to create an add plexname infrastructure?
01:52:14 [AaronSw]
Well, how else do I get in?
01:52:21 [tav]
right now?
01:52:25 [tav]
i add them manually
01:52:26 [AaronSw]
Yes.
01:52:33 [tav]
goto plexnames.com
01:52:38 [sbp]
hmz: slovenian?
01:52:58 [sbp]
Arabic?
01:53:05 [tav]
arabic, yes
01:53:09 [tav]
slovenian, why
01:53:10 [sbp]
Arabic root, to prick, urge on, prod. hamza, from Arabic hamza, graphic sign for the glottal stop, from hamaza, to prick, to urge on, prod.
01:53:11 [tav]
?
01:53:29 [tav]
heh
01:53:39 [sbp]
slovenian: dunno... a first guess
01:53:43 [tav]
xt is just a zope product of mine
01:53:48 [tav]
it does all sorts of fancy stuff
01:53:49 [AaronSw]
ahh...
01:53:58 [AaronSw]
tav, what goes in "functional" for my plexname description?
01:54:15 [tav]
ah, lemme demonstrate
01:54:23 [tav]
.e ?
01:54:24 [xena]
usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message>
01:54:25 [xena]
- send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to.
01:54:26 [xena]
- you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with //
01:54:26 [tav]
gah
01:54:37 [tav]
.e cofe
01:54:37 [xena]
http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil//
01:54:42 [tav]
.e cofe tav.yi.org
01:54:42 [xena]
http://tav.yi.org:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil//
01:54:58 [tav]
the normal uri woulda been : http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil//
01:55:15 [tav]
the functional uri woulda been : http://<args>:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil//
01:55:26 [tav]
<args> is basically everything after the plexname
01:55:26 [sbp]
freenet? Brr...
01:55:32 [tav]
yea, freenet
01:55:42 [AaronSw]
I see, so I insert a literal <args>?
01:55:46 [tav]
yes
01:55:55 [sbp]
the problems that freenet causes! with it's anonymity
01:55:56 [AaronSw]
pfft, i need a password
01:56:08 [tav]
heh, as i said, only i can add...
01:56:09 [AaronSw]
problems? more like benefits
01:56:24 [AaronSw]
you need more adders
01:56:54 [AaronSw]
I wish I had as many cool things as tav...
01:56:57 [sbp]
* sbp loves Freenet
01:57:11 [tav]
heh
01:57:27 [sbp]
But I dunno how to install on WinMe... doesn't have JRE
01:57:42 [tav]
well, i spend my whole life focussed on taking over the world
01:57:50 [tav]
sbp: download it....
01:57:58 [tav]
we package the latest SUN JRE with espsetup
01:58:09 [sbp]
neat
01:58:10 [tav]
http://www.espsetup.com/win32/espsetup.exe
01:58:21 [sbp]
* sbp gets 0.3.9.2
01:58:29 [tav]
ehm
01:58:32 [AaronSw]
espra's pretty cool
01:58:33 [tav]
just use espSetup
01:58:38 [tav]
it comes with latest freenet too
01:58:57 [sbp]
* sbp notes that he just got a new computer, which is why he doesn't have Freenet installed... it was happily installed on his old computer
01:59:53 [AaronSw]
email me@aaronsw.com Freenet Rocks!
01:59:54 [sbp]
I don't use Java much, so it worked out well :-)
01:59:57 [AaronSw]
.email me@aaronsw.com Freenet Rocks!
01:59:57 [xena]
error: [Errno socket error] host not found
02:00:00 [AaronSw]
grr!
02:00:09 [sbp]
He he he
02:00:32 [AaronSw]
.email sean@mysterylights.com Freenet Sucks!
02:00:32 [xena]
error: [Errno socket error] host not found
02:00:57 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw tried out Freenet an hour or so ago... web proxy is pretty cool
02:01:19 [tav]
yay!
02:01:23 [tav]
xena's dead
02:01:38 [sbp]
Oh feck, it just asks me to install JRE
02:02:00 [tav]
<Morbus> hey there. who are you? <g>
02:02:08 [Morbus]
hehehe.
02:02:10 [tav]
AaronSw: care to introduce me?
02:02:20 [Morbus]
iv'e heard the supreme ruler bit ;)
02:02:35 [sbp]
* sbp is still wondering who tav is too
02:02:39 [AaronSw]
tav, Morbus is a Perl hacker who works on RSS and Amphetadesk and screws up machines at an ISP.
02:02:53 [Morbus]
and don't forget disobey.com ;)
02:02:55 [AaronSw]
Morbus, sbp, tav is head of ESP, makers of hundreds of esp* domain names
02:03:19 [AaronSw]
as well as Espra, xena, and other fine Zope products and things that start with x.
02:03:29 [tav]
.whois espterrorism.com
02:03:29 [xena]
espterrorism.com - ImportError: No module named select
02:03:51 [Morbus]
and he wrote some bookie thingy? or she?
02:04:03 [AaronSw]
bookie?
02:04:16 [Morbus]
book. you know, baby talk for ignorance.
02:04:25 [tav]
we are the guys behind gift economy, a society with direct democracy, basic socio-economic rights
02:04:44 [sbp]
oh, so that was you!
02:04:44 [Morbus]
that sounds familiar. ever heard of the lottery of babylon?
02:05:01 [AaronSw]
direct democracy fascilitated by the Internet?
02:05:12 [tav]
also intend to bring about reputation servers, trust metrics, etc
02:05:26 [AaronSw]
wow, and you're getting funding from where?
02:05:45 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw adds espra to his list of cool places to work
02:06:14 [tav]
well, we managed to get private investors to support us ;p but unfortunately, we are left to look elsewhere lately
02:06:27 [deltab]
* deltab notes AaronSw's addition, and plans something
02:06:34 [tav]
and, the gift market model is the answer, i'm convinced!
02:06:37 [AaronSw]
ooh... what, i wonder...
02:07:11 [AaronSw]
hmm, so you'll have all your programmers working for you for free as a plege to the gift economy... interesting!
02:07:26 [tav]
deltab: we stopped the mass orgy ritual after your initiation you know...
02:07:30 [tav]
;p
02:07:30 [AaronSw]
See also the lack of content at http://cge.espra.net/
02:07:37 [AaronSw]
orgy: aww, shoot!
02:07:45 [tav]
see also the lack of content on everything esp does ;p
02:07:50 [Morbus]
i'm satanist! do i get some lovin'?
02:08:26 [sbp]
I wonder why Satanists go to hell? Isn't that the first place they'd want to go?
02:08:47 [Morbus]
no, satanists don't believe in heaven, hell, god or satan. or at least the Church of Satan doesn;t
02:09:08 [sbp]
so why isn't it called the Church of Nothing?
02:09:29 [sbp]
or just "Nothing"? That'd be better
02:09:30 [Morbus]
becuase we could care less if you want to make asssumptions without researching. that just adds you to our idito list :)
02:09:48 [sbp]
Pfffff, without researching my ass!
02:09:58 [Morbus]
i'm not affiliated with the CoS though. most satanists just follow some "rules" and then branch out themselves'
02:10:08 [deltab]
sbp: yes, very much without that
02:10:22 [AaronSw]
lol
02:10:24 [sbp]
He he he
02:10:33 [tav]
heh
02:10:42 [sbp]
* sbp was going to add a comma, but gave in
02:10:48 [tav]
so, for the fourth channel in two days
02:10:49 [Morbus]
hehehe
02:10:54 [tav]
lemme pitch the gift market to you folks
02:11:00 [Morbus]
alright
02:11:05 [AaronSw]
I'm sold! Where do I sign?
02:11:11 [sbp]
* sbp puts his "no, really, I am interested" face on
02:11:27 [tav]
first off, what does gift economy say to you?
02:11:28 [Morbus]
* Morbus leans meditatively and intently forward.
02:11:39 [Morbus]
it reminds me of those sites that give gifts for people for no reason
02:11:44 [Morbus]
kinda like a two way camgirl thing
02:12:06 [sbp]
two way camgirl? sounds fun
02:12:11 [AaronSw]
It reminds me of monks with wrapped boxes and bows.
02:12:13 [Morbus]
heh. have you heard of that, sbp?
02:12:38 [AaronSw]
It also reminds me of agorics, and potlach, etc.
02:12:58 [Morbus]
quickly: chick with cam puts up wishlist. desparate men "pay" her off with gifts to do favors on cam.
02:12:59 [sbp]
I haven't, but I'm interested
02:13:05 [tav]
jej
02:13:07 [tav]
heh
02:13:11 [Morbus]
its been on salon and somewhere else recently.
02:13:16 [AaronSw]
jej?
02:13:29 [Morbus]
heh+1
02:13:29 [tav]
it 3 am
02:13:33 [sbp]
h>j
02:13:36 [tav]
i'm allowed to make typing mistakes
02:13:44 [sbp]
No, it's quarter past 3
02:13:50 [Morbus]
actually, its 10:15
02:13:58 [AaronSw]
9:15!
02:14:01 [sbp]
3:15AM, I tell you!
02:14:11 [Morbus]
ok. get out our swatch synchonizers
02:14:15 [AaronSw]
Anyway....
02:14:24 [Morbus]
this is that cam girl thing: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/08/13/cam_girls/index.html
02:14:29 [sbp]
There's another Iridum Flare tonight sometime... a really bright one
02:15:32 [tav]
those satellites coulda been something
02:15:39 [AaronSw]
I thought those satellites dropped into the atmosphere.
02:15:52 [sbp]
Wow, kick-ass
02:15:55 [sbp]
perhaps literally
02:16:08 [AaronSw]
You know Motorola headquarters is right around here.
02:16:32 [AaronSw]
I went to the Motorola Museum for my birthday once.
02:18:00 [AaronSw]
anyway, tav was telling us about the gift economy
02:18:08 [sbp]
Anyway, Gift Econ... yes
02:18:22 [tav]
hmz
02:18:35 [tav]
so, in all seriousness, what does it say to you? ;p
02:18:56 [AaronSw]
It's people donating things to each other for the improvement of society.
02:19:15 [Morbus]
ok. kinda like those book trade things i've been seeing recently
02:20:11 [tav]
well, one aspect of the gift economy is the system of exchanging commodities under the principles of voluntary payment and unrestricted distribution
02:20:59 [tav]
distribution mechanisms such as freenet, bring down the cost of distribution to negligible levels
02:23:04 [tav]
ehm
02:23:10 [tav]
people still there?
02:23:24 [sbp]
I think so
02:23:24 [Morbus]
yuppers
02:23:46 [sbp]
aren't "yuppers" people who carry mobile phones and bark?
02:23:52 [Morbus]
bwahahaha.
02:24:01 [tav]
right, so, with distribution costs so low, the question is one of renumerating the content creators
02:24:01 [sbp]
:-)
02:24:27 [AaronSw]
renumerating? i.e. paying back?
02:24:33 [sbp]
why does Freenet bring the cost of distribution any lower than the rest of the WWW?
02:24:54 [AaronSw]
Because with the Web you need to host a server.
02:24:58 [AaronSw]
With Freenet you only need a client.
02:25:19 [tav]
AaronSw: yes
02:25:44 [tav]
ehm
02:25:47 [tav]
remunerating even
02:26:00 [AaronSw]
remunerating?
02:26:03 [tav]
to compensate the content creator for the effort they have put in
02:26:19 [xena]
xena has quit
02:26:37 [AaronSw]
bye bye, xena
02:26:47 [AaronSw]
ok
02:27:01 [xena]
xena has joined #swhack
02:27:07 [tav]
.webster remunerate
02:27:08 [xena]
Remunerate defined as:
02:27:09 [xena]
(-?t), v. t. [imp. & p. p.
02:27:10 [xena]
- {Remunerated} (-?"t?d); p. pr. & vb. n. {Remunerating}.] [L. remuneratus, p. p. of remunerare, remunerari; pref. re- re- + munerare, munerari, to give, present, from munus, muneris, a gift, present. Cf. {Munificent}.] To pay an equivalent to for any service, loss, expense, or other sacrifice; to recompense; to requite; as, to remunerate men for labor.
02:27:13 [xena]
- Syn: To reward; recompense; compensate; satisfy; requite; repay; pay; reimburse.
02:27:24 [tav]
there ;p
02:27:41 [AaronSw]
fine
02:27:43 [tav]
sbp: w/ freenet, there is no cost of hosting a server as AaronSw pointed out
02:27:51 [tav]
the cost is distributed evenly amongst all the users
02:28:03 [AaronSw]
Which is how the Web was supposed to be...
02:28:59 [AaronSw]
but caching fizzled out.
02:29:02 [tav]
yup
02:29:08 [AaronSw]
http://www.w3.org/Propagation/
02:29:13 [tav]
read it
02:29:40 [tav]
so, let's say AaronSw puts up his shower music
02:29:50 [AaronSw]
Aww, thanks tav.
02:29:57 [tav]
i love it, and give him $$$
02:30:12 [tav]
that's the simplest form of transaction within the gift economy
02:30:12 [AaronSw]
Aww, thanks tav.
02:30:17 [sbp]
and the persistence of the resource is given by how often it is accessed?
02:30:34 [tav]
sbp: in freenet?
02:30:45 [sbp]
yep
02:30:58 [tav]
yes, less accessed resources tend to drop out, but we intend to fix that
02:30:58 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit
02:31:50 [tav]
now, enter gift market
02:32:02 [sbp]
fix: great!
02:32:03 [tav]
this takes the simple transaction and makes it slightly more complex
02:32:42 [tav]
we perceive AaronSw's collection of shower music as a product
02:33:12 [tav]
and, he puts it up on the gift market and specifies two things..
02:33:31 [tav]
- for how long people can "buy into" his product
02:33:39 [tav]
- how much of his product people can buy into
02:33:53 [sbp]
definition of "buy into"?
02:34:05 [AaronSw]
gift market stocks?
02:34:06 [tav]
e.g. he says people can buy into 20% of his product until the next three months, after which the opportunity closes
02:34:28 [tav]
sbp: into future potential revenue through gift economy transactions
02:34:42 [sbp]
cool
02:34:51 [tav]
e.g. after the three months, someone comes along and gives AaronSw $50
02:34:57 [AaronSw]
Money from future transactions?
02:35:07 [tav]
yes
02:35:40 [tav]
of that $50, $10 (20%) gets split between those who bought into his product
02:36:00 [AaronSw]
What about non-cash dontations?
02:36:08 [AaronSw]
Like free server hosting? ;-)
02:36:38 [tav]
well, that adds a level of complication that isn't being tackled by the implementation yet
02:36:40 [tav]
but will do
02:36:55 [AaronSw]
So you're actually implementing this market?
02:36:57 [tav]
i want the whole commerce layer to be a complex bartering system of sorts
02:37:12 [tav]
but, that's more of a medium term goal
02:37:24 [tav]
yes, the gift market is something we want to make reality now
02:37:41 [AaronSw]
Thru a computer implementation? (Espra?)
02:37:42 [AaronSw]
I thought all you guys did was make IRC bots and beautifult but vapid websites. ;-)
02:37:51 [tav]
heh
02:39:26 [tav]
we do all that too
02:39:37 [tav]
whoa major lag
02:39:37 [sbp]
* sbp installs JRE
02:39:39 [AaronSw]
wow
02:40:04 [sbp]
* sbp installs Freenet
02:40:15 [tav]
sbp: which one?
02:40:22 [sbp]
Freenet_setup0.3.9.2.exe
02:40:24 [tav]
the one in espSetup or from the website?
02:40:26 [tav]
urgh
02:40:38 [tav]
your network won't work quite so well
02:40:51 [tav]
use espSetup
02:40:52 [sbp]
from SourceForge... what one do you recommend?
02:40:57 [sbp]
URI?
02:41:07 [tav]
http://espsetup.com/win32/espsetup.exe
02:41:34 [tav]
so... sbp / AaronSw: comments on the model?
02:42:07 [AaronSw]
Of the gift economy? well, it's pretty much what I expected... rather simple right now
02:42:21 [AaronSw]
What does jim (the potlach guy) think?
02:42:27 [sbp]
What are your next practical steps for implementing it going to be?
02:43:25 [tav]
well, i can expand on the complex models if you wish
02:43:44 [tav]
creating digital cash, etc
02:43:54 [tav]
but, they are medium term goals
02:43:57 [sbp]
ooh, digital cash, go!
02:44:13 [tav]
jim likes what we do
02:44:52 [AaronSw]
I mean the idea is all great, I've always felt that. I just want to see it happen!
02:45:30 [sbp]
* sbp downloads Freenet through ESP
02:45:43 [tav]
http://potlatch.net/2001/02/14.html
02:46:11 [tav]
and he stayed with me last month and we had lots of crazy sex
02:46:12 [tav]
ehm
02:46:21 [tav]
s/sex/discussions
02:46:29 [AaronSw]
sex? Really?
02:46:47 [tav]
no ;p
02:46:56 [tav]
megan would kill me
02:47:05 [tav]
well, probably jim first
02:47:33 [AaronSw]
megan your gf? so? wife?
02:47:41 [tav]
re: comment, i want to hear of what you see as flaws in the model
02:47:53 [tav]
jim's wife
02:48:02 [AaronSw]
i see
02:48:12 [AaronSw]
Freudian slip?
02:48:35 [tav]
my humour... ;p
02:48:49 [tav]
* tav sighs and gives up
02:49:10 [AaronSw]
Why would I see flaws in such a model? it's rather plain and simple.
02:49:21 [AaronSw]
It's an implementation I could nitpick
02:49:39 [sbp]
Freenet is totally smegged for some reason...
02:50:06 [AaronSw]
Works for me.
02:50:15 [tav]
sbp: what's the problem?
02:50:42 [tav]
AaronSw: good ;p
02:50:57 [AaronSw]
have you gotten flak from other people?
02:51:49 [sbp]
it says it can't find javaw
02:52:54 [sbp]
Aha, I fixed it manually
02:53:32 [tav]
sbp: run minifindjava.exe
02:53:34 [tav]
ah, k
02:53:44 [sbp]
* sbp goes to pigdog
02:53:49 [tav]
ehm
02:53:56 [tav]
pigdog is still accessible?
02:54:09 [tav]
didn't even realise it was being updated
02:54:10 [sbp]
nope... very very slow
02:54:18 [tav]
try cofe
02:54:20 [tav]
.e cofe
02:54:20 [xena]
http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil//
02:54:39 [tav]
AaronSw: ehm, yes
02:54:51 [sbp]
It's churning...
02:54:56 [AaronSw]
on what parts, tav?
02:55:45 [sbp]
no, it's not getting it
02:56:12 [sbp]
wow, it's using port 19114... that's not normal, is it? What's the default?
02:56:22 [AaronSw]
I think that's it
02:56:39 [tav]
major objections were on the gift economy itself... why would anyone cough up instead of freeloading
02:56:43 [tav]
sbp: that's the default
02:56:54 [sbp]
Heh, interesting: This page will load content from the world wide web. This could be an error on the part of the page creator - or it could be used to compromise your anonymity.
02:57:00 [tav]
there's freenet .4.3 available btw
02:57:07 [tav]
ah
02:57:12 [tav]
hit the filter
02:57:22 [tav]
is this tonite's cofe?
02:58:14 [AaronSw]
objections: yeah, i'd expect that...
03:02:54 [tav]
--
03:02:54 [tav]
I wish somebody would fix the damn IRC logs. I can't tell what's going on with development without them.
03:02:55 [tav]
--
03:03:06 [tav]
deltab: irclogs need fixing
03:03:10 [AaronSw]
Our IRC logs work.
03:03:24 [tav]
heh
03:03:25 [tav]
so do ours
03:03:48 [tav]
just something strange happening with dns?
03:07:23 [sbp]
how does MSK relate to SSK?
03:10:33 [tav]
yes
03:10:40 [tav]
MSKs aren't realy
03:10:41 [tav]
MSKs aren't real
03:10:48 [tav]
just a figment of your imagination ;p
03:11:05 [tav]
it's date based redirect powered SSKs basically
03:12:55 [sbp]
is there any documentation for them? I can't seem to find anythin that explains it clearly
03:13:41 [AaronSw]
How does freenet protect against me stealing someone's future update?
03:16:58 [tav]
SSK@public_key/object
03:17:06 [tav]
you insert with your private_key
03:17:22 [tav]
so, i know that anything inserted that subspace is by you...
03:17:30 [tav]
s/that/under that
03:17:40 [tav]
sbp: http://freenetproject.org/index.php?page=keyguide
03:19:36 [sbp]
aha, cheers
04:11:55 [xena]
xena has quit
04:12:46 [xena]
xena has joined #swhack
04:12:52 [tav]
.e sbp
04:12:52 [xena]
sbp: http://purl.org/net/sbp/
04:13:13 [sbp]
:-)
04:15:10 [AaronSw]
.e aaronsw doorknob.jpg
04:15:13 [AaronSw]
grr!
04:15:19 [AaronSw]
.help
04:15:19 [xena]
usage: help <command>
04:15:20 [xena]
- provides specific usage help for command
04:15:21 [xena]
- for a list of valid commands, use commands in a channel or private message
04:15:23 [AaronSw]
.e
04:15:23 [xena]
usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message>
04:15:24 [xena]
- send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to.
04:15:25 [xena]
- you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with //
04:18:39 [AaronSw]
.when did tav have sex with jim
04:18:39 [xena]
tav last logged in on 2001/09/11 03:37:23.3819 Universal
04:21:51 [sbp]
lol
04:29:56 [AaronSw]
Heheh: "sex is talk; date; touch; unzip; finger; head; mount; fsck; gasp; yes; umount; make clean; sleep"
05:05:21 [sbp]
sbp has quit
05:12:36 [AaronSw]
Hmm, Pat claims RFC2396 doesn't is confused. That's a problem.
05:13:55 [AaronSw]
He badgers my favorite quote defining Resources: "I don't think there is any point it trying to 'rescue' this prose. It is too broken to be useful."
05:13:57 [AaronSw]
Ouch.
05:19:58 [xena]
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deltab has quit
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deltab has joined #swhack
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xena has quit
07:59:35 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has quit
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tav has quit
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deltab has quit
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AaronSw has joined #swhack
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xena has joined #swhack
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deltab has joined #swhack
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tav has joined #swhack
13:13:20 [xena]
xena has quit
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15:26:46 [AaronSw]
logster, is there still internet to NY?
15:26:47 [logster]
I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'is there still internet to NY'
15:26:48 [logster]
0) 2001-09-11 15:26:46 <AaronSw> logster, is there still internet to NY?
15:26:56 [AaronSw]
guess so
15:27:38 [sbp]
some sites are down, but I'm guessing that's due to there being so many visitors
15:28:43 [AaronSw]
Yeah, they're just being pummeled
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15:31:23 [sbp]
wb
15:31:30 [aswartz]
thanks
15:31:41 [aswartz]
Everything in chicago has been closed, museums, etc.
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15:43:19 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Please bear with us as some off-topic discussion continues today. Needless to say, people in the US in particular may be very preoccupied. Thanks.
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17:32:52 [AaronSw]
Hi there.
17:33:07 [AaronSw]
<AccordionGuy> I wonder what they're going to do with upcoming movies that prominently feature the WTC. Namely, the Spider-Man movie (where he webs a bank robber's helicopter between the towers)
17:35:40 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Just a note. Pasting information on flights, need for blood donors and similar things on wallops. To listen, /mode <yournick> +w
17:35:58 [sbp]
Yes, and there's an episode of The Simpsons with the WTC towers... they won't be showing that for a while
17:37:44 [AaronSw]
How're things with you?
17:38:27 [AaronSw]
Wow... "We have suspended our service out of sympathy to the victims and families of this National tragedy. Our heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to them." - X10.com
17:39:55 [sbp]
I'm still just stunned, just watching the news, talking to people
17:40:35 [AaronSw]
Some good photos at http://www.brandtheory.com/press/
17:45:17 [AaronSw]
Douglas Rushkoff: "I live high up, on 9th Street, and watched the whole World Trade Center
17:45:17 [AaronSw]
disaster unfold from my windows. Excruciating to witness."
17:45:39 [sbp]
Yes, I just got a mail from Ranjeeth (HumanML)
17:45:50 [sbp]
[[[
17:45:50 [sbp]
HumanMarkup Technical Committee,
17:45:50 [sbp]
17:45:50 [sbp]
We have somewhat hidden or obscure our idealism, as part of the HumanMarkup effort. Yet, the utter terrible reality of human conflict is right outside my window--literally. I have seen, from my view in Jersey City, the utter destruction of the World Trade Center.
17:45:50 [sbp]
]]]
17:46:35 [AaronSw]
The fellow who hosts my server says he lives 10 blocks from the WTC. He's in CA today, however.
17:46:42 [sbp]
Phew
17:47:03 [AaronSw]
bram, who works on p2p and crypto stuff says his dad was driving to the WTC to catch a train...
17:47:11 [sbp]
Eek
17:47:16 [AaronSw]
... he was minutes away when the plane hit.
17:47:29 [AaronSw]
Thankfully he's fine.
17:47:57 [sbp]
One woman was on the c.57th floor of Tower 1, and got out just fine... so there is hope
17:48:58 [AaronSw]
wow.
17:49:54 [sbp]
They didn't collapse for a while, so hopefully, most of the people got out
17:51:17 [sbp]
Hmm... someone came up with a good point: the devistation doesn't appear to be as bad as in Hiroshima
17:51:35 [AaronSw]
Yeah, no nuclear weapons yet.
17:51:57 [AaronSw]
I can't wait to see what the response will be to Bush's "Missile Defense" plan after this...
17:52:00 [sbp]
But that was part of the largest war the world has ever seen... this is a huge terrorist attack in peacetime
17:52:05 [sbp]
yeah. scary
17:52:15 [AaronSw]
Did you read the Tom Clancy novel the attack is like?
17:52:35 [sbp]
Nope]
17:52:50 [sbp]
Weird though...
17:53:12 [AaronSw]
Yeah, apparently one of his books talks about people flying planes into skyscrapers.
17:53:15 [AaronSw]
Wow: http://www.thetwowayweb.com/discuss/msgReader$96
17:54:24 [sbp]
I can't download it... what does it say?
17:54:51 [AaronSw]
Someone called the police from the hijacked plane in Pittsburgh.
17:54:57 [AaronSw]
They dialed 911 on their cell phone.
17:54:58 [sbp]
Wow
17:55:14 [AaronSw]
'I think the transcript was described as "chilling."'
17:56:01 [sbp]
yep, I've found it
17:56:18 [AaronSw]
The transcript?
17:57:05 [sbp]
not the transcript, just the page you refered me to
17:58:13 [sbp]
Gotta run
17:59:05 [AaronSw]
bye
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19:27:25 [AaronSw]
what you say?
19:27:41 [sbp]
Pardon?
19:27:57 [AaronSw]
what's up?
19:28:19 [sbp]
The usual
19:53:45 [AaronSw]
It's eerily quiet outside...
19:53:54 [AaronSw]
no planes, no cars... just the wind and the birds
20:14:39 [sbp]
Yes, it's the same here. People all inside watching the news stunned, I guess
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