IRC log of openacs on 2002-06-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:14 [jim]
mbr: have you done SICP in any form?
00:04:06 [mbr]
what's SICP?
00:04:36 [jim]
Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs...
00:04:39 [denshi]
it's the new thing on the streets
00:04:47 [jim]
if no, would you want to?
00:04:52 [denshi]
kids are going to parties and recursing
00:05:00 [mbr]
hmmm
00:08:01 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-238-204.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
00:10:00 [denshi]
paje, again!
00:10:00 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
00:10:42 [talli]
* talli would like to thank all the users and bots in the #openacs channel for warm welcomes like that one
00:11:03 [denshi]
bad welcome?
00:11:11 [denshi]
s/welcome/weekend/
00:11:37 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-153.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
00:12:17 [markd2]
gitdown!
00:12:17 [paje]
gitfunky
00:12:18 [talli]
no, just warm love
00:12:19 [markd2]
paje, gitdown!
00:12:19 [paje]
gitfunky
00:12:52 [mbr]
gitdown!
00:12:52 [paje]
gitfunky
00:13:00 [mbr]
* mbr steals paje's botsmack
00:13:09 [denshi]
* denshi suspects talli is running short on hot love
00:14:58 [denshi]
* denshi is a love camel
00:16:12 [talli]
are love camels sage?
00:17:02 [markd2]
talli and bot love?
00:17:37 [talli]
the correct answer to my question is, "only in the ways of humping"
00:18:38 [denshi]
love camels are capable of storing up love through long journeys through love deserts
00:19:00 [denshi]
* denshi is about a quarter-hump low
00:36:28 [docwolf]
docwolf (~wolf@adsl-34-224-116.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
00:45:19 [docwolf]
i'm the cleaner.
01:01:13 [mbr]
hmmm
01:01:23 [mbr]
denshi, you still have your archos?
01:08:57 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@66-108-0-75.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs
01:10:02 [markd2]
vinoodle
01:11:03 [vinod]
hey markd2
01:11:21 [davb]
i need to install cygwin
01:11:57 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
01:12:05 [vinod]
why - linux is no good? :-)
01:13:36 [mbr]
hey everyone
01:13:36 [paje]
everyone is shooting to take down the exchange+outlook combo by building a complete solutoin
01:13:42 [davb]
:) its not quite there for graphics tools
01:13:50 [mbr]
dave, did you see my fishie?
01:13:56 [davb]
nope
01:14:04 [vinod]
ahh
01:14:04 [vinod]
hey mbr
01:14:33 [mbr]
hey v
01:14:55 [vinod]
davb: you should get a mac :-)
01:15:06 [davb]
vinod: yes, i should.
01:15:08 [davb]
its on my list.
01:15:17 [mbr]
ROFL
01:15:22 [davb]
or actually its not. I made a list using the todoo mode of emacs.
01:15:33 [vinod]
there's a todo mode?
01:15:39 [vinod]
mbr: nice fish!
01:15:53 [mbr]
thanks
01:16:07 [davb]
yes. there is there is more than one actually. this one is called todoo
01:16:20 [davb]
mbr that is pretty good. what kind is it?
01:16:26 [mbr]
weakfish
01:16:36 [mbr]
a bit of a misnomer however
01:16:38 [davb]
where did you catch it?
01:16:50 [mbr]
they should call it "Strong fish with soft mouth"
01:17:07 [mbr]
Fire Island Inlet by "Sore Thumb"
01:17:19 [mbr]
I thought I caught someone's anchor
01:29:03 [davb]
good night
01:29:08 [davb]
davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
01:34:51 [denshi]
vinod!
01:35:20 [denshi]
mbr, what's an archos?
01:36:16 [vinod]
denshi!
02:01:56 [talli]
vinod: when do we meet to duel?
02:02:23 [vinod]
hmmm... i haven't bought my dueling sword yet
02:02:28 [vinod]
can i borrow yours?
02:02:36 [talli]
oh... sure
02:02:44 [vinod]
ok, then anytime this week
02:03:14 [talli]
how are the infirmed of NYC treating you?
02:03:32 [vinod]
pretty well so far, but that's cuz i don't start work until july 1st
02:03:51 [vinod]
the ones that i've met on the street have been very nice :-)
02:03:57 [talli]
ah, that is a good treatment
06:30:26 [vinod]
vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:50:13 [pascal__]
pascal__ (~pascal@facb-167-233.pc.fgg.eur.nl) has joined #openacs
09:50:19 [pascal__]
hiya
09:50:26 [pascal__]
pascal__ is now known as PascalS
09:54:52 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
09:55:04 [davb]
hi
10:12:17 [davb]
hmmm
10:12:30 [PascalS]
hmm?
10:12:40 [davb]
reading threads on the bboard, leads me to believe my first idea for restricting search was better.
10:13:15 [davb]
that is, instead of modifying the cr triggers to only index live_revisions, we should make a mechanism for the packages to say, "don't index this item"
10:13:29 [davb]
perhaps some sort of service-contract response.
10:13:34 [davb]
hi PascalS :)
10:13:42 [davb]
i didn't know anyone was listening.
10:13:49 [PascalS]
* PascalS really needs to brush up on OACS4.5
10:14:20 [PascalS]
You use the IRC as a personal log :) ?
10:14:28 [davb]
sometimes.
10:14:36 [davb]
also neophytos might read it.
10:14:54 [PascalS]
ah
10:15:18 [davb]
or someone else. when I have openacs ideas, i usually type them here to get an initial response before posting to the bboards.
10:16:21 [PascalS]
do you have experience with tcl and sybase on windows?
10:16:28 [PascalS]
or tcl and odbc on windows?
10:17:01 [davb]
sorry, no. tcl seems to run well on windows, but I haven't really used it.
10:17:21 [davb]
my windows experience is all Ms access.
10:17:38 [PascalS]
Yeah, it works perfectly - you just need new drivers for _everything_
10:18:10 [davb]
ah.
10:18:22 [PascalS]
it's painful.
10:18:47 [PascalS]
There isn't a standard Tcl database interface :(
10:19:12 [davb]
How about that version of the aolserver api in tcl?
10:19:39 [davb]
you would need an aolserver driver. i think there is one for sybase.
10:19:57 [PascalS]
Yes, but not on Win32, AFAICT.
10:20:10 [davb]
ah. that is too bad.
10:20:43 [PascalS]
Indeed - and there isn't anything remotely like the OpenACS database calls in standard Tcl.
10:21:08 [davb]
weird. perl and python have db libraries.
10:21:32 [PascalS]
There are Tcl database interfaces, just nothing standar.
10:21:38 [PascalS]
d.
10:21:44 [davb]
ah
10:22:02 [PascalS]
Which is a pain for a project that _HAS_ to run on linux and win32.
10:22:19 [davb]
hmm. i wonder if the aolserver one could be made the standard, someone would have to port to win32.
10:22:43 [PascalS]
I much prefer to port the OpenACS database API to Tcl.
10:23:13 [PascalS]
It'd need some extra connect/disconnect calls, but it's almost perfect for every job I have.
10:23:51 [davb]
ohright. so use the ns_tcl or whatever its called, and build the openacs api on top.
10:24:00 [davb]
it would supass ever other db api I have seen.
10:25:06 [PascalS]
Oh, I don't know if that needs to be done. The aolserver database drivers are pretty straightforward, shouldn't be too much work to convert to plain Tcl.
10:25:44 [davb]
could be.
11:53:24 [mbr]
morning
11:53:27 [mbr]
paje, seen davb
11:53:27 [paje]
davb was last seen on #openacs 1 hours, 27 minutes and 42 seconds ago, saying: could be. [Mon Jun 24 05:25:35 2002]
11:53:32 [mbr]
paje, seen rbm
11:53:32 [paje]
rbm was last seen on #openacs 1 days, 10 hours, 57 minutes and 19 seconds ago, saying: reboots into win2k to play some DS [Sat Jun 22 19:56:03 2002]
12:09:57 [davb]
hi mbr
12:24:34 [davb]
ok, i have another idea.
12:24:57 [davb]
CMS hooks together most of the parts of the system, but its a huge pile of code and noone needs the whole thing.
12:25:20 [davb]
so lets break it up into reusable parts, based on service contracts, so I can put together the pieces I need.
12:27:37 [mbr]
mbr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:49:50 [Wookiephylax]
hmm?
12:50:01 [Wookiephylax]
It pays to work for an ISP
12:50:04 [davb]
how many of you are there?
12:50:10 [Wookiephylax]
I just lost connectivity to my house
12:50:19 [Wookiephylax]
well not 'just' but whenever mbr left
12:50:23 [davb]
ah.
12:50:38 [Wookiephylax]
So I called up the server complex right to the 'bridge' and asked them what the deal is
12:50:59 [Wookiephylax]
power outage and the DHCP server is getting hammered with DHCP requests
12:51:13 [davb]
ah
12:51:23 [Wookiephylax]
this is much much easier than going through the "Hello, can you please reboot your modem" process
12:51:35 [davb]
that is true.
12:51:47 [davb]
i tell them, i already did that before i called you.
12:52:10 [davb]
"i'm sorry, do it again. we have no clue we are just reading this off a script" "independent thought is not allowed"
12:52:27 [Wookiephylax]
yeah
12:53:27 [Wookiephylax]
I need a power supply :(
12:54:41 [davb]
sorry, i don't have a spare
12:55:11 [Wookiephylax]
woo
12:55:14 [Wookiephylax]
it's back up
12:55:44 [Wookiephylax]
but without an IP
12:58:53 [mbr]
mbr (proxy@ool-18baa8de.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs
12:59:06 [mbr]
mbr is now known as Beatnik
13:01:27 [davb]
hmmm. the tricky part is figuring out which pieces of CMS we want.
13:04:44 [Wookiephylax]
Dave, have you figured out your smartmedia dilemma?
13:04:50 [davb]
nope.
13:05:04 [davb]
i tried it in another reader, same problem. the camera can read it, but nothing else.
13:05:22 [Wookiephylax]
another reader being a ___?
13:05:35 [davb]
ah. it was a fuji one.
13:05:36 [cro]
cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs
13:05:44 [davb]
i am not sure of the model #
13:06:00 [Wookiephylax]
Was it a regular USB reader or another FlashPath adapter?
13:06:00 [davb]
but it did the same thing. showed all the files, but says the files are unreadable.
13:06:03 [davb]
USB
13:06:07 [Wookiephylax]
weird
13:06:21 [Wookiephylax]
oh
13:06:26 [davb]
unless the camera is saving them in some weird format. the extension is still jpg though
13:06:27 [Wookiephylax]
you know what the problem might be
13:06:36 [davb]
no :)
13:06:37 [Wookiephylax]
the CIS on the card might be wrong
13:06:45 [davb]
whats a CIS?
13:06:53 [Wookiephylax]
hang on
13:11:03 [davb]
too scary.
13:11:08 [davb]
i am trying to find the receipt :)
13:16:05 [Wookiephylax]
for what
13:17:14 [davb]
the memory
13:18:20 [Wookiephylax]
how much did you pay
13:18:30 [davb]
$25?
13:18:40 [davb]
more probably, i don't recall.
13:18:41 [Wookiephylax]
Is that with S&H or without?
13:18:50 [davb]
bought it at the store.
13:19:27 [Wookiephylax]
A 64mb SmartMedia card (retail) is 23$+4$ S&H
13:19:30 [Wookiephylax]
at newegg.com
13:19:42 [Wookiephylax]
A 32mb smartmedia is 12$
13:22:52 [Wookiephylax]
How much do 32mb cards cost at the store?
13:23:12 [davb]
not sure, i'll check. i'll either get a refund or trade in for 2 32s
13:23:51 [Wookiephylax]
ah
13:24:05 [Wookiephylax]
yeah that's what I was proposing if they don't let you exchange it
13:24:38 [Wookiephylax]
I'll give you enough for 2x32 since I don't have a problem with 64mb ones
13:24:45 [Wookiephylax]
btw, the CIS hacks work great
13:24:58 [Wookiephylax]
all my cards are "Olympus" now
13:25:07 [davb]
you have the olympus reader?
13:26:07 [Beatnik]
no
13:26:15 [Beatnik]
I have a Zio! but the concept is the same
13:26:38 [davb]
ah.
13:26:40 [davb]
i see.
13:26:49 [Beatnik]
you hack an smprep.exe to corrupt the CIS, then you have a 2nd SMPREP.exe that has an olympus CIS to "repair" it
13:27:27 [Beatnik]
After you fix the CIS with Olympus CIS it works just like an Olympus card in the camera (with Panorama enabled)
13:27:32 [davb]
smprep.exe will work on your reader? i thought it was specific to the chips used in the reader.
13:29:16 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@213.149.166.167) has joined #openacs
13:29:26 [k2pts]
paje: seen davb?
13:29:26 [paje]
davb was last seen on #openacs 1 minutes and 54 seconds ago, saying: smprep.exe will work on your reader? i thought it was specific to the chips used in the reader. [Mon Jun 24 08:27:22 2002]
13:29:47 [davb]
hi k2pts :)
13:30:00 [k2pts]
hey davb
13:30:10 [k2pts]
i've read your email, that's why I'm here
13:30:16 [davb]
thanks
13:30:43 [k2pts]
there are two ways to proceed:
13:31:26 [k2pts]
a. you either modify the trigger to index only the items you want, i.e. update the search_observer_queue accordingly
13:31:40 [Beatnik]
Dave, smprep is chip specific but my Zio! uses the same chip
13:31:56 [davb]
Beatnik: aha. i'll have to check mine.
13:32:32 [oacs-chump]
oacs-chump has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:32:36 [k2pts]
or b. (preferable) have a searchable_p flag in the service contract -- I have proposed that already (i'm not sure if it was here or in the forums)
13:33:37 [k2pts]
I was going to implement such a functionality earlier this year when I worked a bit on the search package but due to lack of time, and due to the release of tsearch I drop it
13:33:39 [davb]
ok.
13:34:33 [davb]
wow, something was killing my web server. now it stopped.
13:35:06 [oacs-chump]
oacs-chump (~oacs-chum@alb-24-58-160-28.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
13:37:10 [denshi]
wow. my first breaking-and-entering case
13:37:42 [davb]
breaker or breakee?
13:37:56 [davb]
k2pts: i think #2 is better. let the package decide what is or is not indexable.
13:38:03 [Beatnik]
hmm?
13:38:08 [Beatnik]
Denshi, you awake?
13:38:11 [denshi]
I'm not sure of the conjugations. but it's my place
13:38:16 [davb]
i did rewrite the CR triggers, but not everyone actually sets live_revision I think
13:38:37 [Beatnik]
You mean someone broke into your house?
13:38:52 [denshi]
right as I was coming back from breakfast
13:38:59 [denshi]
but they got away
13:39:04 [Beatnik]
Did you catch the guy in action?
13:39:06 [denshi]
I'm on the phone with the cops right now
13:39:09 [Beatnik]
beat him with a big oracle book?
13:39:31 [k2pts]
davb: agree (re: #2)
13:39:54 [davb]
ok good. I'll take a look at the code. i will defer holding etp 2.0 for the fixing of the search package.
13:40:14 [Beatnik]
Denshi, he didn't take the archos mp3 player did he?
13:40:28 [davb]
Beatnik: that was docwolf silly
13:41:06 [davb]
k2pts: have you ever looked at CMS?
13:41:27 [k2pts]
yeap
13:41:32 [Beatnik]
oh
13:41:39 [Beatnik]
I have a bad memory
13:41:42 [Beatnik]
paje, seen docwolf
13:41:42 [paje]
docwolf was last seen on #openacs 12 hours, 56 minutes and 21 seconds ago, saying: i'm the cleaner. [Sun Jun 23 19:45:11 2002]
13:41:49 [Beatnik]
hmmm
13:42:07 [k2pts]
I had to "rewrite" it to conform with the 4.3 version of workflow when I made openacs workflow 4.3 aware
13:42:08 [Beatnik]
I wonder if paje's testimony is good enough to convict Docwolf of being a professional assassin
13:42:11 [davb]
I was thinking there are some good ideas in there. But its too big. I wanted to break out parts of it into seperate service packages that can be combined to make a CMS.
13:43:07 [k2pts]
I have also offered some ideas in that respect... two packages... I don't remember if it was a private conversation with talli or here in the channel let me search the chatlogs... bbiam
13:45:38 [k2pts]
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:2Hp1T-e1eisC:blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/2002-03-01.txt+openacs+chatlogs+k2pts+etp+content-section&hl=el&ie=UTF-8
13:45:39 [oacs-chump]
A: http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:2Hp1T-e1eisC:blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/2002-03-01.txt+openacs+chatlogs+k2pts+etp+content-section&hl=el&ie=UTF-8 from k2pts
13:46:06 [k2pts]
18:25:53 <k2pts> an instance of etp is a content section but you still need a separate package to manage those content sections
13:47:11 [davb]
oh that was also something I was thinking about.
13:47:23 [abbaJ]
abbaJ has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:48:09 [k2pts]
check the link I've submitted... (around 18:25 is the chat w.r.t the cms, etp)
13:49:12 [davb]
i see, yes now i remember.
13:49:34 [denshi]
beatnik: what is this archos mp3 player you keep harping on?
13:50:05 [Beatnik]
It's an mp3 player but instead of using removable media it uses a laptop hard drive
13:50:10 [Beatnik]
6gigs, 10gigs, 20gigs
13:50:19 [Beatnik]
Fits a lot more songs
13:50:41 [denshi]
so you're suggesting I'm under attack by mp3 'pirates'?
13:51:28 [Beatnik]
you?
13:51:42 [Beatnik]
I'm so confused
13:52:04 [davb]
denshi: Beatnik can't distinguish between IRCers whose nick starts with 'd'
13:52:27 [denshi]
davb: that sounds like a crippling hadicap
13:52:34 [Beatnik]
D'oh?
13:52:35 [denshi]
s/hadi/handi/
13:54:25 [k2pts]
davb: do you know what software was used for paje?
13:55:08 [davb]
infobot
13:55:12 [davb]
paje infobot?
13:55:12 [paje]
hmmm... infobot is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot
13:55:44 [k2pts]
thx davb, paje
13:55:44 [paje]
k2pts: excuse me?
13:56:08 [Beatnik]
paje, what is your opinion of asian women?
13:56:08 [paje]
i heard my opinion of asian women was that they are hot and I want an asian bot friend for myself
13:56:26 [Beatnik]
paje, what is your opinion of markd?
13:56:26 [paje]
i haven't a clue, beatnik
13:56:34 [Beatnik]
paje, you're useless
13:56:34 [paje]
Beatnik: sorry...
14:04:25 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
14:18:04 [talli]
damn, missed neophytos
14:23:21 [davb]
hi talli
14:25:36 [talli]
hey davb
14:25:42 [talli]
that momentum logo looks awesome!
14:25:53 [davb]
really? wow, you have low standards :)
14:26:02 [talli]
:)
14:26:07 [talli]
or you're too humble!
14:26:21 [davb]
I will fiddle with it tonight and maybe try a couple more fonts, and clean it up a little.
14:26:47 [davb]
I am always afraid I subconsciously copied something from somewhere else.
14:27:06 [talli]
lemme send you a jpeg i foudn that has a nice look, a little more cartoonish and irreverent
14:27:10 [talli]
it's just a different look
14:27:52 [davb]
ok.
14:27:57 [davb]
thats cool.
14:32:41 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-114.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
14:33:57 [talli]
davb: just sent it
14:34:41 [markd2]
just do it
14:35:21 [davb]
bbiab
14:35:23 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
14:38:21 [denshi]
* denshi loves cops
14:38:33 [talli]
* talli loves indians
14:38:36 [denshi]
they're so damn helpful
14:38:39 [talli]
markd2 loves cowboys
14:38:52 [talli]
rbm loves construction workers
14:39:13 [talli]
who's the last Village Person?
14:39:22 [denshi]
navy
14:39:30 [talli]
ah, right
14:41:32 [denshi]
i have a fun one, talli
14:41:36 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:42:23 [denshi]
or not
14:42:37 [markd2]
maybe he's off to join the navy
14:47:50 [denshi]
maybe we can teach paje to sing "in the navy"
14:49:13 [denshi]
well, the cop only found a couple of prints
14:49:38 [denshi]
but he demonstrated a number of creative ways to get into my place
14:51:17 [markd2]
whoa. you got broken into?
14:51:32 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-238-204.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
14:53:10 [denshi]
yes
14:53:23 [denshi]
between leaving for breakfast and getting back from the bank
14:53:27 [denshi]
that's about 50 minutes
14:53:40 [denshi]
which means they were watching the place for me & the roomie to leave
14:54:38 [markd2]
spooky
14:54:49 [markd2]
maybe they really wanted your ns_scheme implementation
14:55:19 [denshi]
ah what a kidder
14:55:32 [denshi]
I'm being borked to death over here
14:56:26 [markd2]
bork to the head!
14:56:44 [denshi]
markd2: the previous tenant claims to have left a bunch of jewels (read: drug stash) in our house, in a plastic trash can. being fools, david just threw out the trash when we moved in
14:57:16 [denshi]
fun!
15:00:11 [talli]
someone stole ns_scheme!!!!????
15:00:20 [talli]
this is HORRIBLE!
15:00:42 [talli]
did someone alert homeland security?
15:00:44 [markd2]
it only took him 3 hours
15:01:25 [talli]
it only took 3 hours to steal ns_scheme???
15:01:31 [denshi]
homeland security!! defending the GPL!!
15:01:36 [talli]
they must be evil geniuses!
15:01:58 [denshi]
no, they just have really slow connections
15:02:02 [talli]
how did they get through the dogs?
15:02:19 [denshi]
the dogs were in the shop
15:02:34 [talli]
how were they able to negotiate the fox holes and sniper nests?
15:02:42 [denshi]
I'm getting them upgraded to "dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you"
15:02:57 [denshi]
talli: this isn't brooklyn
15:03:02 [denshi]
keep your sniper nests
15:09:36 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
15:12:15 [denshi]
speaking of snipers....
15:12:33 [davb]
hi denshi
15:12:40 [denshi]
* denshi ducks
15:13:03 [rbm]
ooom
15:13:05 [davb]
updateing winxp must reboot, resume talking about me
15:13:09 [davb]
davb has quit (Client Quit)
15:13:57 [rbm]
brb
15:13:59 [Wookiephylax]
lol
15:14:00 [Wookiephylax]
hey
15:14:02 [Wookiephylax]
rbm :)
15:16:12 [talli]
talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:17:17 [Wookiephylax]
Anyone with superior Linux skills here?
15:18:24 [cro]
superior how?
15:19:43 [jim]
well
15:19:50 [Wookiephylax]
Superior as in helping me get a usb smartmedia reader working
15:19:56 [cro]
can't help you there
15:19:58 [Wookiephylax]
It should just mount as a hard drive
15:20:20 [jim]
never done usb before... but the key things are
15:20:45 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-238-204.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
15:21:09 [jim]
- make sure your kernel does USB, and check for the appropriate device driver
15:21:35 [jim]
- watch your logs when you connect/disconnect to see what it tries/fails/succeeds to do
15:22:19 [PascalS]
PascalS has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:22:26 [Wookiephylax]
well
15:22:31 [Wookiephylax]
I don't know if my kernel supports usb
15:22:45 [Wookiephylax]
but I just ran dmesg and get this
15:22:59 [jim]
2.2.x kernels had very rudamentary usb support... 2.4 has been getting much better
15:23:06 [Wookiephylax]
hub.c: USB new device connect on bus2/2, assigned device number 2
15:23:20 [jim]
yep, your kernel has usb support
15:23:33 [jim]
and it looks like a 2.4
15:23:36 [Wookiephylax]
usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0x4e6/0x3) is not claimed by any active driver
15:24:41 [jim]
maybe recompiling is in your future... is this a debian?
15:24:49 [Wookiephylax]
no it's Gentoo
15:25:02 [Wookiephylax]
There's another thing I've been meaning to learn
15:25:15 [Wookiephylax]
how to compile a Linux kernel...I can do BSD pretty well, just not Linux :)
15:25:21 [jim]
hmm... dunno about gentoo, but it might have the kernel config file around somewhere
15:25:26 [talli]
Wookiephylax: does your box recognize the USB interfaces upon booting?
15:25:36 [Wookiephylax]
it might
15:25:39 [jim]
talli: looks that way
15:25:40 [Wookiephylax]
how do I know?
15:25:45 [talli]
also, gentoo has good docs for kernel compile
15:26:02 [jim]
Wookiephylax: it saw the hub, for one thing
15:26:08 [Wookiephylax]
yeah I haven't had to do any of that stuff yet
15:26:24 [Wookiephylax]
This is one of my work machines running Gentoo
15:26:42 [Wookiephylax]
The one at home blew a Power Supply fan so I need a new P/S before I can really get into Gentoo
15:26:43 [jim]
I'll need coffee... bbs
15:27:50 [Wookiephylax]
brb
15:30:11 [rbm]
Wookiephylax: Do you have the kernel sources in your hard drive?
15:31:15 [Wookiephylax]
I'm not sure
15:31:44 [Wookiephylax]
yes
15:31:57 [Wookiephylax]
I have stuff in /usr/src/linux-2.4.19-r1
15:32:12 [talli]
Wookiephylax:
15:32:27 [talli]
to compile the kernel, you need to go to /usr/src/linux
15:32:32 [talli]
then do make clean
15:32:36 [talli]
make menuconfig
15:33:10 [talli]
if you got the install docs there is a aprt about compiling a kernel that is prett complete
15:33:21 [Wookiephylax]
ok
15:33:31 [Wookiephylax]
can't read it now though..must do work :)
15:33:37 [Wookiephylax]
work = money
15:33:49 [Wookiephylax]
no work = no job = no money = very bad
15:34:01 [rbm]
me tarzan, you jane
15:39:36 [Wookiephylax]
damn
15:39:36 [Wookiephylax]
so confused
15:39:36 [Wookiephylax]
too much network wire
15:42:01 [Wookiephylax]
Anyone awake?
15:42:06 [Wookiephylax]
paje, seen Wookiephylax
15:42:06 [paje]
Wookiephylax was last seen on #openacs 0 seconds ago, saying: paje, seen Wookiephylax [Mon Jun 24 10:41:56 2002]
15:43:18 [rbm]
* rbm is awake
15:43:27 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
15:43:34 [Wookiephylax]
ok just checking
15:43:40 [Wookiephylax]
I did some network wire cleaning
15:43:44 [Wookiephylax]
wanted to make sure it all worked
15:47:37 [davb]
http://www.linux-usb.org/
15:47:37 [oacs-chump]
B: http://www.linux-usb.org/ from davb
15:47:55 [davb]
Wookiephylax: check there, there is a list of compatible hardware and drivers
15:51:10 [davb]
http://www.piskorski.com/
15:51:10 [oacs-chump]
C: http://www.piskorski.com/ from davb
15:51:19 [davb]
C:|More version control for web development info
15:51:19 [oacs-chump]
titled item C
15:52:38 [davb]
http://www.piskorski.com/acs/
15:52:38 [oacs-chump]
D: http://www.piskorski.com/acs/ from davb
15:52:53 [davb]
D:|Includes revised static-pages, perhaps can be merged with the OpenACS version
15:52:53 [oacs-chump]
titled item D
15:59:13 [Wookiephylax]
bah
15:59:17 [Wookiephylax]
we ran out of DHCP
16:14:19 [davb]
you ran out?
16:15:36 [markd2]
hate it when that happens
16:15:42 [markd2]
maybe the local MicroCenter can deliver some more
16:16:15 [Wookiephylax]
maybe but I hear they might charge extra for static
16:17:44 [markd2]
bastards
16:30:49 [davb]
talli: that clock is pretty cool.
16:31:01 [davb]
i will do one fun one, and one serious one.
16:34:24 [abbaJ]
abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-65-67-61-104.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
16:36:59 [markd2]
markd2 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:10:37 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. I have a website up at http://lilo.sargasso.net/ explaining my current situation. I'm asking for help on a personal basis to keep working as OPN head of staff and to finish setting up the nonprofit corp. Please take a look. If you decide to help, please don't wait for the next person to do it first. Thanks.
17:17:39 [davb]
davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
17:26:11 [talli]
talli has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020616]")
17:35:15 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-238-204.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
17:41:43 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-167.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
17:44:20 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
17:45:59 [bduell]
bduell (~bduell@gowron.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs
17:46:14 [rbm]
wb all
17:46:56 [markd2]
alltel?
17:46:56 [paje]
alltel are a bunch of wankers
17:47:00 [markd2]
amen!
17:47:04 [Wookiephylax]
cablevision?
17:47:05 [paje]
i guess cablevision is almost a bunch of wankers but they managed their ISP pretty well
17:47:10 [Wookiephylax]
:)
17:48:44 [davb]
http://zvon.org/Output/bar_list.html
17:48:44 [oacs-chump]
E: http://zvon.org/Output/bar_list.html from davb
17:49:13 [davb]
E:|Standards Reference Sidebars for Mozilla, HTML, XML, CSS etc...
17:49:13 [oacs-chump]
titled item E
17:49:39 [davb]
hmmm, a TCL/ADP and OpenACS one would be neat.
17:53:59 [rbm]
davb: that's cool.
17:54:42 [davb]
yes. i noticed on the mozilla home page there was a link for web developers. I will keep those all in there, then I never need to search around for css syntax and stuff.
17:55:59 [rbm]
making one for the templating system would be pretty easy
17:56:40 [davb]
cool.
17:57:36 [talli]
the mozilla community is talking about rebuilding mozilla.org in zope
17:57:56 [talli]
just thougth i'd throw that little bit of unfortunate trivia out there
17:58:06 [talli]
ten bucks it's zope+mysql
17:58:06 [davb]
talli: head the off at the pass!
17:58:09 [cro]
Anyone out there that can make a push for openacs?
17:58:29 [talli]
anyone in here that can volunteer to build it?
17:58:47 [davb]
Thats a pretty serious site isn't it?
17:58:48 [talli]
and be willing to deal with the "tcl? are you nuts???" arguments that will ensue?
17:58:55 [talli]
uhm... mozilla.org?
17:58:58 [talli]
kinda sorta
17:59:05 [davb]
alot of stuff.
17:59:39 [talli]
we need more data that the system can scale to that size
17:59:52 [talli]
the GP folks are shooting for 10 hits/sec
17:59:56 [Wookiephylax]
vanilla?
17:59:56 [cro]
And Zope can?
18:00:09 [talli]
if they can get that kind of throughput with no problems, then we're in good shape
18:00:16 [davb]
talli: mozilla.org looks like mostly html. not sure how they are generating it.
18:00:24 [talli]
well,. since hazAway isn't here, we have no proof one way or the other
18:00:54 [davb]
ok. I have a weird windows XP problem. saving to the network takes 10 times longer at least.
18:01:04 [davb]
anyone else heard of that? :)
18:01:07 [talli]
zope can probably do it with ZEO, just as OACS can do it with some other kind of scaling tools like a bigger box
18:01:33 [cro]
Is "the network" a Samba server?
18:01:45 [davb]
cro: ah. win2k domain
18:02:17 [davb]
i find this page title amusing: bug writing guidelines
18:02:28 [davb]
i think there is a "report" missing in there somewhere.
18:02:46 [davb]
i hardly ever have trouble creating bugs such that I would need a guide to help me.
18:03:15 [davb]
mozilla.org looks like mostly a CMS kind of solution. Alot of content and reads.
18:06:18 [talli]
which is perhaps why zope would be good for them
18:06:24 [davb]
right.
18:08:47 [davb]
did anyone see my notes this morning about taking apart CMS and turning it into several service-contract based services?
18:08:59 [rbm]
davb: vaguely. Sounded good.
18:09:06 [davb]
:)
18:09:11 [davb]
now to just implement it.
18:09:30 [davb]
also that way it is alot easier. just do one feature at a time, instead of building a huge monster.
18:10:33 [rbm]
yeah
18:10:53 [davb]
One thing I have been thinking about. Some services the CR provides such as keywords and item relationships might be better off outside the CR. I might want to assign a keyword/category to any acs_object, not just CR objects. Same with related items. I might want to relate an acs_object, not necessarily a cr_item.
18:10:59 [davb]
its tricky.
18:11:16 [davb]
and I can't tell which solution is better.
18:11:48 [davb]
but lately I want to simplify all the packages.
18:12:17 [davb]
so we have a bunch of services, and you can combine them with another package that provides the UI to all the features you need.
18:23:08 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@66-108-0-75.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs
18:23:24 [rbm]
hey vinod
18:23:30 [vinod]
hey rbm
18:24:51 [markd2]
hiya
18:25:10 [vinod]
hey markd2
18:25:32 [vinod]
has anyone here tried using a nsd.tcl that wasn't physically located in AOLSERVER_HOME (i.e. /usr/local/aolserver or whatever)?
18:25:42 [talli]
oh have i!
18:26:16 [rbm]
vinod: I do.
18:26:21 [cro]
me too
18:26:36 [vinod]
ok - and it works fine? I must be doing something wrong
18:26:38 [rbm]
vinod: Mine is in /etc/aolserver/ where it should be.
18:27:22 [vinod]
for some reason, when i put it in /web/myserver, it doesn't source the tcl modules in /usr/local/aolserver/modules/tcl (like ns_getform)
18:27:25 [rbm]
vinod: it works great. My AOLserver instance is stow'd
18:27:55 [rbm]
vinod: you have to set the home dir in the config file
18:28:49 [cro]
And do you have a section that looks lie this somewhere?
18:28:58 [cro]
ns_section "ns/server/${servername}/tcl"
18:28:58 [cro]
ns_param library /home/cro/wd/$servername/tcl
18:29:20 [cro]
whoops, that's probably not right.
18:29:31 [cro]
rbm's soln is probably what you need.
18:29:35 [cro]
nevermind
18:30:59 [vinod]
ok - so i need to point homedir=/usr/local/aolserver
18:31:26 [cro]
yes
18:32:06 [vinod]
cool - thanks guys.
18:32:38 [vinod]
my mind's ability to forget is unlimited :-)
18:33:38 [talli]
as is your butt's ability to stic
18:33:40 [talli]
stink
18:34:09 [vinod]
my butt sticks?
18:34:29 [talli]
yes
18:34:38 [talli]
to the plastic cushions of my heart
18:34:45 [vinod]
awwww
18:34:50 [vinod]
* vinod melts
18:34:59 [vinod]
talli is so romantic
18:35:28 [talli]
you should see me with my pants on
18:35:38 [vinod]
lol
18:36:33 [vinod]
are pants required at the linuxworld booth?
18:38:11 [talli]
only for the booth babes
18:39:12 [vinod]
booth babe? is that what you're calling yourself now?
18:39:27 [markd2]
I think paje should be our booth babe
18:39:57 [vinod]
paje is the best looking one of us
18:40:26 [markd2]
chump is pretty sexy in that liederhosen
18:41:08 [vinod]
i thought chump was married though, with that hyphenated name and all
18:41:27 [vinod]
i don't want to make oacs jealous
18:41:47 [markd2]
chump and logger, with oacs in a two-on-one paje-induced threesome!!! (or something like that)
18:43:49 [vinod]
haha
18:44:18 [vinod]
* vinod forces himself to think about openacs
18:46:40 [rbm]
that bad?
18:47:40 [vinod]
in order to purge my mind of bot-threesomes :-)
18:48:45 [vinod]
i think markd2 has found a way to fund further oacs development
18:49:00 [denshi]
heh
18:49:29 [vinod]
denshi!
18:49:52 [denshi]
vinod!
18:50:17 [denshi]
what are you filling your days with until work starts?
18:50:41 [vinod]
being a good little homemaker :-)
18:50:53 [vinod]
i'm putting up curtain rods and curtains today
18:52:28 [denshi]
excellent
18:52:56 [denshi]
I'm listening to duke ellington, changing locks, and researching sniper nests per talli's suggestion
18:52:56 [talli]
you are truly sick people
18:53:26 [talli]
talli has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020616]")
18:53:42 [denshi]
talli should know never to knock the duke
18:53:53 [markd2]
The rappin' Duke
18:54:27 [vinod]
just read the logs, denshi
18:54:30 [vinod]
that sucks!
18:55:57 [vinod]
did they steal much?
18:56:31 [denshi]
they didn't take anything, as far as I can tell
18:56:39 [denshi]
wait...
18:56:52 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-238-204.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
18:57:16 [vinod]
talli: the sick people are still here
18:59:18 [denshi]
vinod: they were interrupted
18:59:31 [vinod]
by you?
19:00:07 [denshi]
yup
19:00:33 [vinod]
wow - that's scary
19:00:47 [vinod]
my cousin's place in NC just got broken into a few weeks back
19:01:04 [vinod]
they took everything electronic, except for 1 CD player which was busted
19:01:14 [vinod]
they even took the chicken from his freezer
19:01:34 [vinod]
now i'm telling everyone to move somewhere safe, like NYC
19:01:41 [davb]
he had an electronic chicken in the freezer?
19:01:46 [vinod]
haha
19:02:00 [Wookiephylax]
LOL
19:02:03 [Wookiephylax]
Oh man
19:02:06 [markd2]
* markd2 dreams of electric chickens
19:02:07 [Wookiephylax]
I forgot to visit V man
19:02:11 [markd2]
he said sheepishly
19:02:40 [vinod]
were you in town Wookiephylax?
19:04:05 [markd2]
yeah, he just got back from Austin and NC
19:04:06 [denshi]
"in a future time, children will work together. to build robotic chickens"
19:04:17 [vinod]
haha
19:04:33 [denshi]
*phylax was in Austin?
19:04:42 [Wookiephylax]
no I was in NYC
19:04:43 [vinod]
denshi puts 1 and 1 together
19:31:08 [jim]
11?
19:34:11 [davb]
bye bbl
19:34:13 [davb]
davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
20:43:50 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
21:20:45 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
21:23:16 [jim]
davb: I came up with a bad solution... but it seems to work: just pass the navbar thru the urls, and work to shorten the urls as much as possible to make more room
21:23:29 [davb]
ah.
21:23:38 [davb]
unfun. but that is what most everyone else does.
21:23:47 [davb]
or pass a really ugly long session id.
21:23:53 [davb]
argh
21:24:05 [davb]
static pages creates cr_folders for the filesystem folders.
21:24:14 [davb]
unfortunately etp creates cr folders for itself also.
21:24:25 [davb]
i want some static pages under /openacs, plus some etp pages.
21:24:27 [davb]
argh
21:24:51 [davb]
i need to do something, maybe append sp_ to all the folder names. the name is not what is uses to find the directory.
21:25:09 [jim]
static page content is stored in the db?
21:26:29 [davb]
maybe :)
21:26:52 [davb]
default is use the filesystem, but store the path to the file, so you can give the text to search to be indexed.
21:27:04 [jim]
then static pages <= etp :)
21:27:25 [jim]
oic
21:27:56 [jim]
still... seems like etp captures a lot of stuff...
21:28:03 [jim]
how's etp2 coming?
21:28:14 [davb]
not bad.
21:28:30 [davb]
well its more a limitation in the content repository. no two cr_items can have the same name.
21:28:41 [davb]
which is a huge pain, and seems to not be necessary.
21:29:05 [jim]
seems to me that makes all of cr a flat db
21:30:11 [jim]
me it should be no two in a folder can be the same name...
21:30:20 [jim]
err
21:30:31 [davb]
but you don't necessarity need to use folders :)
21:30:34 [jim]
well, you get the (antigrammatic) idea :)
21:30:39 [davb]
we have the item_id, its allways unique.
21:31:40 [talli]
talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:32:26 [davb]
whats the syntax to concatenate a string in pl/pgsql?
21:32:45 [jim]
hmm, I have the manual printed...
21:32:49 [jim]
one sec
21:32:54 [davb]
cool, thanks :)
21:34:48 [cro]
davb: ||
21:35:01 [davb]
thanks alot
21:35:05 [davb]
i knew that :)
21:35:23 [davb]
is that in pl/pgsql as well as SQL?
21:35:37 [cro]
oh dud
21:35:45 [cro]
sorry, I have Oracle on the brain
21:35:50 [jim]
I was gonna say that :)
21:36:13 [davb]
wait.
21:36:14 [jim]
not that you have orackle on the brain, but that || is a possibility :)
21:36:19 [davb]
its supposed to use the full path.
21:36:33 [davb]
ie /www/openacs not just openacs, so they should always be unique.
21:36:39 [davb]
argh
21:37:01 [jim]
/www?
21:37:28 [davb]
whateve the path from the openacs root to the target dir is.
21:38:10 [jim]
* jim notes the answer that might be || isn't in the user's guide... maybe the programmers guide
21:39:10 [davb]
hmmm.
21:39:26 [davb]
ns_xml-rpc/: unchanged
21:39:26 [davb]
openacs/: unchanged
21:39:54 [davb]
ah. its not deleting out the folders.
21:39:55 [jim]
it has a whole chapter on functions... but nothing on -making- functions, just on the functions pg has
21:39:55 [davb]
weird.
21:40:23 [jim]
not deleting... where have I heard that before? :)
21:41:01 [davb]
argh
21:41:18 [davb]
my openfts index is still all screwed up.
21:41:25 [davb]
bbl
21:43:11 [jim]
* jim eyes the postgres programmers guide... from afar even... I KNOW I'm gonna need a printed copy...
21:50:54 [jim]
* jim prints
21:54:59 [davb]
* davb deletes all the sp_folders.
21:55:02 [davb]
i hope this works.
22:01:32 [cro]
cro has quit ("see y'all later.")
22:03:57 [jim]
hey davb...
22:04:29 [jim]
are there any other cases in the .xql where the query name would have to be defined specially?
22:05:19 [jim]
(other than query launched from pkg/tcl/pkg-procs.tcl)
22:06:25 [bduell]
bduell has left #openacs
22:39:08 [jim]
looks like || is it: they say pl/pgsql inherits all functions, operators and types from pg's sql
22:42:57 [rbm]
each line in PL/pgSQL is executed by the SPI manager, as if it was a select (AFAI could understand from Jan Wieck's explanation on the lists the other day)
22:44:15 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@213.149.166.167) has joined #openacs
22:45:15 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
22:53:05 [jim]
! k2p2!
22:53:36 [jim]
rbm: what's SPI?
22:58:20 [rbm]
jim: It's PG's SQL parser
23:10:31 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-238-204.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
23:49:36 [davb]
jim: the queries in adp/tcl pages are just named name="query_name" using the name you specify in the db_proc