IRC log of openacs on 2002-06-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:41:21 [mbr]
Anyone here?
00:41:37 [mbr]
paje, seen anyone?
00:41:37 [paje]
I haven't seen 'anyone', mbr
00:41:45 [mbr]
ok paje, how about dave?
00:41:49 [mbr]
paje, seen davb
00:41:50 [paje]
davb was last seen on #openacs 3 hours, 49 minutes and 45 seconds ago, saying: after i go to the drive-in movies (tomorrow) :) [Sat Jun 22 15:51:59 2002]
00:41:59 [mbr]
paje, seen
00:41:59 [paje]
mbr: what?
00:42:02 [mbr]
paje, seen rbm
00:42:02 [paje]
rbm was last seen on #openacs 3 hours, 46 minutes and 57 seconds ago, saying: (: [Sat Jun 22 15:54:59 2002]
00:42:26 [rbm]
mbr: hey
00:42:31 [mbr]
mew!
00:42:36 [mbr]
wanna see something gross?
00:42:46 [rbm]
I got hardware monitoring on Linux working
00:42:51 [mbr]
cool
00:44:20 [rbm]
(:
00:44:21 [mbr]
nah
00:44:21 [mbr]
Not pr0n
00:44:44 [rbm]
I haven't solved my audio issue still :(
00:47:37 [rbm]
hmm? fish?
00:48:36 [mbr]
yep
00:48:43 [mbr]
32" and 8.5 pounds
00:48:45 [rbm]
what's gross about that?
00:49:50 [mbr]
I dunno :)
00:50:18 [rbm]
I grew up eating lots of fish
00:50:26 [mbr]
Pescada?
00:50:33 [rbm]
I've eaten that
00:51:18 [rbm]
Tambaqui, Tucunaré, Pirarucu, Jaraqui, Curimatã, etc.
00:52:21 [mbr]
heh
00:52:38 [rbm]
Those are all excellent fish, abundant in the Amazon region
00:56:09 [rbm]
* rbm reboots into win2k to play some DS
00:56:14 [mbr]
:)
01:15:38 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-169.ip.alltel.net) has joined #Openacs
01:18:16 [mbr]
Hey markasaurus
01:21:34 [markd2]
bork
01:21:46 [markd2]
how's life?
01:24:17 [mbr]
life is good
01:24:19 [mbr]
caught a fish
01:25:57 [markd2]
impressive
01:26:57 [mbr]
That fish destroyed my hook
01:27:05 [mbr]
It was bent way out of shape
01:27:55 [mbr]
I use 3/0 fluke hooks and my rod and line is rated to 20lb...I use a sensitive rig for fluking and have a hard time with big fish like that
01:28:26 [mbr]
Anything above 5lb gives me trouble (but of course I only caught 2 fish over 5 lb in the last 3 years so I'm pretty save as far as I see)
01:48:02 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("bork")
02:03:42 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] Hello all, this is MysticOne, one of the staff members here at OPN. I'm making this announcement to let everyone know that lilo's personal fund raising efforts are supported by the staff here at the network. However, this does not mean that we feel OPN exists to serve as a revenue stream for lilo. We do feel that he's put many years into this project, and any financial support you're able to give him as he works through these tough time
02:04:21 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] ...tough times is justified. Why does this matter to us? Well ... lilo has always been the one with the vision for the network, the one with the plans of what we're here to do. They may not be written down in some formal document, they may not be numbered, on pretty paper, or published anywhere. But they're there, and we feel that lilo is an integral part of the future of this network.
02:04:53 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] Would the Open Projects Network exist without lilo? Perhaps in some form or fashion. But I don't personally think it'd exist as it does now. We do have a goal, everyone, we do have a vision, and we, the staff of OPN, do share it. We don't desire that OPN be a place for personal fundraising, but deseperate times call for desperate measures, and we want lilo to get through this.
02:05:48 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] (desperate even, excuse my spelling error). Many of us have even pledged our own money to help him to an extent. Should you support him as well? You, yourselves, know the answer to that.
02:06:20 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] Open Projects will continue to be here as long as possible, as strong as possible, and as helpful as possible. We appreciate your support as always, and urge you to check with us fairly often to see what new projects and ideas we're developing. I thank you very much for your time in this matter, and wish everyone a pleasant evening. As always, we thank you for using the Open Projects Network.
02:38:08 [jim]
jim (~jim@12.155.172.152) has joined #openacs
02:38:16 [denshi]
ooom, jim
02:38:21 [mbr]
mew
02:38:25 [jim]
hiya
02:38:29 [jim]
ok...
02:38:39 [jim]
my urls are getting VERY long...
02:38:46 [denshi]
jim, I have an nsd problem
02:38:51 [jim]
I need to pass some stuff another way :)
02:39:03 [jim]
denshi: shoot
02:39:20 [mbr]
hmm
02:39:50 [denshi]
I cracked open ns_ruby, and I can't, for the life of me, see how I controlled output from the interpreter to the client...oh wait, it becomes obvious even as I type it
02:39:52 [denshi]
I go now
02:40:49 [jim]
for one, I need to do the navbar such that it stores places they've been in a memoized array (whose elements are (url, url title))
02:41:13 [jim]
or, wait... I'm not sure...
02:42:03 [jim]
here, take a look at 12.155.172.152:8000 (does it say jazz communtiy (STAGING)?)
02:42:39 [denshi]
yes
02:42:47 [mbr]
Ahhhh crap
02:42:54 [mbr]
I forgot a 128mb SmartMedia card in my digicam
02:43:00 [mbr]
I hope they don't lose it
02:43:27 [jim]
ok, now look at key signature drill,
02:43:33 [jim]
and compare sharps to flats
02:43:54 [jim]
sharps uses pages in another package
02:44:03 [jim]
and has a problem in the navbar
02:44:41 [jim]
flats does it the old (not-refactored) way, and the navbar is how I want sharps to be
02:45:24 [jim]
side point is what I said in the beginning, I need to shorten my URLs in the links
02:47:11 [jim]
if I wanted to pass the navbar in the URLs, that would make it bigger, perhaps a lot bigger
02:47:24 [denshi]
I'm lost on this subject
02:47:33 [denshi]
I'll beg off further input
02:47:46 [jim]
ok...
02:47:57 [denshi]
* denshi apologizes
02:47:59 [jim]
take a look at flats...
02:48:37 [jim]
notice the rightmost link in the navbar takes you back to the drill selection page
02:49:36 [jim]
(I notice I'm not providing enough info; sorry; I'll do it again now, slower and more detail)
02:50:11 [jim]
see that part?
02:54:17 [jim]
anyone alwake? :)
03:14:09 [mbr]
yes
03:14:14 [mbr]
paje, seen jim
03:14:14 [paje]
jim was last seen on #openacs 19 minutes and 57 seconds ago, saying: anyone alwake? :) [Sat Jun 22 21:54:11 2002]
03:19:19 [jim]
hi mbr...
03:19:23 [mbr]
hello
03:19:35 [mbr]
pi or cake?
03:19:53 [jim]
could you look at my site?
03:19:59 [mbr]
sure
03:20:22 [jim]
I need to get ideas on how what I'm trying to do is generally done
03:20:58 [mbr]
with a website!
03:21:08 [jim]
well, yes :)
03:22:19 [jim]
do you see what I was referring to, in comparing the flats navbar to the sharps one/
03:22:20 [jim]
?
03:23:22 [jim]
(note, the stuff I'm talking about is in the very recent scrollback)
03:23:29 [mbr]
heh, it would help if I had a link :)
03:23:54 [jim]
oh :) ok...
03:24:09 [jim]
here's that and explanitory stuff :)
03:24:22 [jim]
here, take a look at 12.155.172.152:8000 (does it say jazz communtiy (STAGING)?)
03:25:12 [mbr]
yes
03:25:25 [jim]
ok, now look at key signature drill,
03:25:34 [jim]
and compare sharps to flats
03:27:16 [jim]
(look at the navbar, flats doesn't use the refactoring of the pages, sharps does, flats navbar is what I want (link takes you back to the selection page) sharps doesn't (link "Drill Helpers" is to the package factoring, and doesn't make sense to be there)
03:27:21 [mbr]
How fast is the computer this is running on?
03:27:28 [jim]
not great
03:27:51 [jim]
it lags a lot, dunno why
03:28:32 [mbr]
so confused
03:29:04 [jim]
thing is, it doesn't have to do any oracle stuff
03:29:24 [jim]
err, db stuff (both pg and oracle are running on that box)
03:29:36 [mbr]
hmm
03:29:39 [mbr]
You should ask dave
03:29:43 [mbr]
he's a geinus at that
03:30:06 [jim]
at the slowdown part?
03:30:07 [jim]
ok
03:30:25 [mbr]
no at ACS
03:30:36 [mbr]
and I need sleep :)
03:30:41 [mbr]
paje, you're in charge now
03:30:41 [paje]
mbr: excuse me?
03:30:49 [mbr]
yeah, I feel the same way
03:30:57 [jim]
when you look at the navbar for flats, notice the rightmost link takes you to the selection page
03:31:42 [jim]
ok, ok :)
03:31:53 [mbr]
Oh
03:31:56 [mbr]
your links are wrong
03:31:59 [mbr]
Weird
03:32:03 [mbr]
I don't know
03:32:04 [mbr]
:(
03:32:20 [mbr]
but now I really need sleep
03:32:28 [mbr]
I had a total of like 6 hours in the last 2 days
03:32:34 [jim]
ok, see you tomorrow maybe :)
03:32:38 [mbr]
yeah
03:32:42 [mbr]
I'll stop by and bug people
03:32:45 [mbr]
I always do
03:34:15 [jim]
I'll work it out, figure out a not-optimized way to do it, then try to optimize
03:35:19 [jim]
the thing is, if I can get this, it's drill questions on any subject
04:14:45 [davb]
jim: you just need a unique key for the session, pass that, and save the navbar state in a nsv array or the database or something.
04:15:09 [davb]
or a cookie even (store the key not the navbar) or store the navbar maybe...
04:26:36 [davb]
good night
04:59:11 [jim]
thanks davb :)
05:43:38 [c-huh]
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05:44:19 [c-huh]
c-huh has left #openacs
11:19:21 [davb]
jim, np :)
14:14:01 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-008.ip.alltel.net) has joined #Openacs
14:31:19 [denshi]
ooom
14:31:33 [denshi]
nsd doesn't deal with PUT requests, correct?
14:35:35 [denshi]
* denshi hires some goats to viciously kick markd2 into conciousness
14:39:38 [markd2]
* markd2 wakes up
14:39:55 [markd2]
aolclerver 2.3.3 did handle PUTs I think (support for AOLPress)
14:40:04 [markd2]
that might have gotten yaned from 3.x. I dunno for sure
14:40:18 [denshi]
I found it in tcl/fastpath.tcl
14:40:34 [denshi]
I was unaware you could define new HTTP methods in ns_register_proc calls
14:45:55 [denshi]
bork! I just uploaded ns_scheme
14:46:03 [denshi]
it took about 3 hours to write
14:46:57 [markd2]
awesome
14:47:11 [markd2]
oh yeah, you can create new and exciting http methods :-)
14:47:27 [markd2]
PANTS /talli/lack-thereof HTTP/1.1
14:47:40 [denshi]
that explains the ns_register_excitement proc
14:48:44 [denshi]
is there a canonical list of aolserver modules I should submit this to?
14:48:57 [markd2]
i don't know
14:50:08 [talli]
i think the canonical list is hidden somewhere in the bowel of the evil corporate HQ of BadgerTronics
14:51:00 [markd2]
* markd2 chuckles manaically
14:51:04 [denshi]
then I would need to define BOWEL /badgers/bork HTTP/1.1.666?
14:52:00 [talli]
* talli wonders if chuck approved of being maniacled
14:52:43 [markd2]
chuckles the clone
14:55:23 [denshi]
talli, what's an acceptable subset of WebDAV?
14:55:39 [talli]
hm.... dunno
14:55:51 [markd2]
webDavB
14:56:00 [talli]
it's probably better to ask what are the general requirements of a WebDAV solution
14:56:30 [denshi]
markd2, we should all have a webDavB for our own
14:56:34 [talli]
for me, i think webdav could provide a great solution for file storage and CMS
14:56:50 [talli]
if we could get it to work with Subersion, that would be even cooler
14:58:21 [talli]
wow... even openoffice has webdav suport
14:59:11 [talli]
denshi: are you more interetsed in implementing webdav in aolserver or getting apache to speak with OACS?
14:59:52 [denshi]
I'm looking at implementing webdav in aolserver
15:00:02 [denshi]
I think it can be done much faster than mayoff claims
15:00:09 [talli]
oh, cool!
15:00:24 [talli]
i just had a very short convo with mayoff... nothing really official
15:00:32 [talli]
it was a back of the envelope approx
15:00:57 [denshi]
I'm also interesting in seeing what money could be scrounged up for such a project
15:01:24 [denshi]
I think I could clear off a few such before school starts in august
15:03:01 [denshi]
after working on apache2, aolserver is stunning in its clarity
15:03:20 [denshi]
ns_scheme took only 3 hours to write (/port )
15:04:34 [markd2]
how long did/would it take in apahce2 land?
15:04:54 [denshi]
over 1 full-time week
15:05:01 [denshi]
just for the apache bits
15:05:02 [markd2]
oof
15:05:19 [denshi]
there were *lots* of false starts and blind alleys
15:06:26 [denshi]
I see what they're trying to do, and their generality is a good idea, but they don't seem to have good models for such
15:06:53 [denshi]
I wonder if you *can* have clean models for generalized filter-based data processing in C
15:09:48 [denshi]
brb
15:11:17 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("bork")
16:26:00 [abbaJ]
abbaJ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:44:24 [markd2]
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17:20:44 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. I have a website up at http://lilo.sargasso.net/ explaining my current situation. I'm asking for help on a personal basis to keep working as OPN head of staff and to finish setting up the nonprofit corp. Please take a look, and thanks.
18:35:01 [talli]
anybody home?
18:36:26 [markd2]
I am
18:36:27 [talli]
davb: you around?
18:36:39 [talli]
why aren't you swimming?
18:36:50 [markd2]
still too early
18:36:58 [markd2]
I like for the pool to be out of direct sunlight
18:37:00 [talli]
building dams and so on in your pool of scum and heartache
18:37:16 [markd2]
that way I don't have to lather up on the sunscreen
18:37:32 [talli]
poor whiteboy
18:37:38 [markd2]
yeah. I'm a pasty-face
18:37:44 [markd2]
and arm, and back
19:15:11 [denshi]
ooom
19:23:04 [davb]
talli: i am here
19:26:22 [davb]
markd2: you need a tree over the pool.
19:26:40 [davb]
denshi: you could implement webdav entirely in tcl in aolserver if you really wanted to.
19:28:37 [davb]
donb wanted a favicon.ico for openacs.org
19:28:47 [davb]
someone enter a todo in bugtracker :)
19:30:01 [davb]
is there a way to ask emacs how long it has been open?
19:31:42 [denshi]
C-c m gets you mode-help
19:31:53 [markd2]
tree == leaves in the pool.. even more annoying :-)
19:37:45 [davb]
true :)
19:42:26 [davb]
i have this:
19:42:28 [davb]
NOTICE: DAVEB PG old.live_revision=<NULL> new.live_revision=2507
19:42:28 [oacs-chump]
Label NOTICE not found.
19:42:36 [davb]
but this if statement is not true...
19:42:44 [davb]
if old.live_revision <> new.live_revision then
19:42:59 [davb]
is it because of the NULL?
19:43:44 [davb]
yes it is.
19:43:51 [davb]
NOTICE: DAVEB PG old.live_revision=2507 new.live_revision=2503
19:43:51 [davb]
NOTICE: DAVEB PG found new live revision
19:43:51 [oacs-chump]
Label NOTICE not found.
19:43:52 [oacs-chump]
Label NOTICE not found.
19:44:14 [davb]
is there a way to check that that will work if one is null?
19:45:07 [davb]
wohoo. the trigger works except for that.
19:49:21 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
20:27:16 [davb]
phew, finally finished. 3-value logic can make for tricky ifs
20:27:55 [talli]
hey davb
20:31:19 [davb]
hi talli. i finsihed the changes to search to restrict to indexing only live content.
20:31:30 [talli]
very nice!
20:31:39 [davb]
now of,couse I have to check to make sure packages make their content live. i suspect not all did.
21:13:03 [abbaJ]
abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-65-67-61-104.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
22:10:12 [jim]
Hi.
22:11:33 [jim]
If I memoize something, would that be available to all connections? (i.e., is memoizing -global- to a particular aolserver?)
22:29:14 [davb]
jim, yes.
22:29:21 [davb]
i believe it is an nsv_array
22:29:32 [davb]
or it might be something else aD created.
22:32:09 [jim]
ok, so given that, I'd need a session key
22:32:51 [davb]
i don't think so. when you call util_meoize it either stuffs it in if it isn't in there, or grabs it out if it is.
22:33:28 [jim]
can I create a link that does "remember all this stuff then go to that place"?
22:34:01 [davb]
hmmm. not sure. i am a little distracted :) be back in 1/2 hour.
22:34:04 [jim]
the goal here is to shorten my link targets...
22:34:10 [jim]
ok, np :)
22:34:24 [jim]
I'll work on getting other stuff shorter
22:38:45 [sash]
sash (~MIA@213-48-41-207.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs
22:41:45 [sash]
Lilo should delegate instead of making repeated requests for donations: http://liloaid.ecce.co.uk/lilo.html
22:44:04 [jim]
and he was told as much repeatedly by his staff; said staff is no longer present.
22:44:30 [jim]
they said words like "inappropriate"
22:46:40 [talli]
sash: if the parody site wasn't meant to offend, why build it?
22:46:46 [talli]
it's obviously directed at one person?
22:46:53 [talli]
why be such a pussy abotut it?
22:48:21 [talli]
jim: do you know more of the background about all this?
22:48:28 [sash]
I wasn't impressed by the parody, particularly that using a homeless person and one of the Africean children.
22:48:51 [sash]
s/one//
22:48:51 [talli]
whose parody is it?
22:49:05 [sash]
Ben Harwood & Co.
22:49:33 [talli]
i see
22:49:46 [talli]
so you didn't write the article? just posted it?
22:49:59 [sash]
Yes.
22:50:08 [talli]
the parody site is dumb, but not quite as dumb as the disclaimers on the article
22:51:10 [talli]
they are obviously pissed enough/immature enough to make the parody... a disclaimer won't wipe away the offense
22:51:15 [talli]
probably script kiddies...
22:52:03 [talli]
of course, it was made by people who started a site called "ilovephilosophy.com", so i guess their credentials as dipshits are already pretty strong
22:58:14 [sash]
Well, people have differing opinions on humour.
23:16:10 [davb]
jim: if you want to keep track of one visitors info, you will need to keep a unique ID somewhere i think.
23:16:43 [davb]
i hate session ids in urls, but for a quiz that would be useless to anyone except the actual visitor, it seems ok :)
23:21:36 [davb]
jim: if you figure this out it would be cool. have you seen the thread about breadcrumb trails etc. its the same thing.
23:21:52 [davb]
jim: do you have to register to do the drills?
23:22:37 [davb]
brb, going to the dark side
23:22:39 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
23:23:28 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-101.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
23:24:54 [jim]
hmm, oops :) that teaches me to be not-100% available to one thing :)
23:25:51 [sash]
sash has left #openacs
23:26:21 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-162-13.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
23:26:28 [davb]
ok, i'm back
23:26:33 [jim]
hmm, oops :) that teaches me to be not-100% available to one thing :)
23:26:57 [jim]
right now, you don't have to reg to do drills... maybe I should change that?
23:27:45 [davb]
if you do,you can just store the status in the database keyed on user_id. that is avaialble in ad_conn, i believe.
23:28:32 [jim]
let me show you what the problem is...
23:29:30 [jim]
12.155.172.152:8000/key-sig-drill/
23:29:53 [jim]
I started to factor off part of the work...
23:30:55 [davb]
ok, that would probably help :)
23:31:24 [jim]
something that will be of value when I do more kinds of drills, and put them in their own pkgs
23:31:48 [jim]
I'm already started on "more kinds of drills"...
23:31:56 [jim]
but anyways...
23:31:59 [davb]
ok. what should i look at?
23:33:07 [jim]
if you look at that, you'll see the site node pretty name of key-sig-drill/ is "Key Signature Drill"
23:33:35 [davb]
yes.
23:33:53 [jim]
of all the choices on the page, only "Sharps" uses the refactoring
23:34:09 [jim]
so you could compare it to anything, and look at the navbar
23:34:53 [jim]
you'll notice that the navbar of everything except Sharps takes you back to this page
23:35:43 [davb]
yes.
23:35:52 [jim]
Sharps tries to take you to "Drill Helpers", which is the pretty name of the site node that the helper service package is mounted
23:36:03 [davb]
ok.
23:36:20 [jim]
here's what I want...
23:37:45 [jim]
if the person got there by way of Key Signature Drill (i.e., by clicking on a link from there) the navbar should take them back there.
23:38:06 [jim]
maybe I should <include>
23:39:03 [jim]
(hopefully this problem has a solution better than trying to store something in the db)
23:40:17 [jim]
OTOH, this is something I should learn to do if it's typical for other ACS uses
23:40:19 [davb]
so you want a "where you were" navigation bar.
23:40:25 [davb]
it is.
23:40:36 [davb]
like I said, there was a thread about it. lars was stumped.
23:41:39 [davb]
here is one I think...http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004tk&topic_id=12&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design
23:44:50 [jim]
well, effectively yes... but it's a little more static than that... it's dynamic in the sense that I want other specific-question-type packages to "go to" the generic helper, and I want the ability to define them after-the-original-design-fact...
23:45:21 [jim]
but it's static in the sense that I don't need to "come from" just anywhere
23:46:42 [markd2]
markd2 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:47:57 [jim]
yeah, this thread is definitely talking about what I want
23:49:56 [mbr]
wooo
23:50:00 [mbr]
paje, seen davb
23:50:00 [paje]
davb was last seen on #openacs 8 minutes and 21 seconds ago, saying: here is one I think...http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004tk&topic_id=12&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design [Sun Jun 23 18:41:31 2002]
23:50:06 [mbr]
paje, seen rbm
23:50:06 [paje]
rbm was last seen on #openacs 22 hours, 53 minutes and 55 seconds ago, saying: reboots into win2k to play some DS [Sat Jun 22 19:56:03 2002]
23:50:07 [talli]
talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)
23:55:27 [denshi]
paje, seen mbr
23:55:27 [paje]
mbr was last seen on #openacs 5 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: paje, seen rbm [Sun Jun 23 18:49:58 2002]
23:55:54 [jim]
paje, seen paje
23:55:54 [paje]
I haven't seen 'paje', jim
23:56:01 [jim]
oh, ok :)
23:57:33 [mbr]
hmm?
23:57:46 [mbr]
I just came by to say hello
23:58:13 [davb]
hiya
23:59:49 [jim]
howdy :)