00:00:16 Want the stable? 00:00:17 is bugtracker only in the development branch? 00:00:23 * rbm checks 00:00:54 anyway this is just to keep track of our work on the other openacs 4 we will set up for the actual site right? 00:01:22 yes 00:01:31 I hope that whatever we setup will become openacs.org 00:01:38 oh ok. 00:01:51 isn't that what you had in mind too? 00:02:15 i thought it might be better to have the bugtracker in a seperate installation. 00:02:22 but if it works like that its no problem. 00:02:29 Looks like bugtracker is just on the devel branch 00:02:33 ok. 00:02:51 So two instances of OACS 4? One stable and one devel? 00:02:54 i need a way to merge the code musea worked on with the new code. 00:03:35 Did musea change anything on th core? 00:03:45 rbm: no, but their copy is really old. 00:03:57 Where's that URL you pasted the other day, about CVS? 00:04:00 Did chump get it? 00:04:02 paje: chump? 00:04:02 chump is a bot that keeps track of URLS, the logs can be found at http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog/ 00:04:15 yes i think so. it was at www.pimds.com 00:09:43 sash (~MIA@213-48-145-16.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs 00:09:51 rbm: yes 00:09:56 davb: k 00:10:22 jim, davb: Doh, I'm really sorry. I made a mistake in the cmd for setting up interMedia 00:11:13 the openacs.org is already running 2 OpenACS instances... I wonder how well it'll handle 2 more 00:11:34 It should be mkdir -p /ora8/$interMedia_partition_name/app/oracle/oradata/ora8/ 00:11:42 We should be okay since we should be having little traffic 00:12:57 if its a problem, we can put the bugtracker on musea's server :) 00:13:58 I'm presently running 3: an oracle instance and two pg ones... all -very- idle 00:14:11 hi sash 00:14:18 thanks, too 00:14:44 now... what's an intermedia partition? 00:14:45 :) 00:14:50 jim: Apologies *grovel* *grovel* 00:14:58 davb: Do you want me to put all packages in CVS? Or should we remove some? 00:15:04 sash: it's -not- your fault 00:15:16 rbm: good question. 00:15:17 :) 00:15:26 Well, it is, since I gave an incorrect answer. 00:15:56 but I didn't ask (until after you answered, anyway) 00:16:25 also, if I make this dir, will it happily come up? 00:16:50 rbm: i think we can just install the packages we want to use. 00:17:21 jim: You should see the question I was asked by a newbie: what is oracle used for? 00:17:36 davb: I'm putting everything on cvs 00:17:57 sash: did you reply, "ask the oracle!"? :) 00:18:13 jim: Yes. You won't get 01119 and 27040 creation errors. 00:18:23 rbm: ok, that works. 00:18:55 sash: during what part? creating the initial database? or loading the data model? 00:18:58 jim: Drat, didn't think of that. I was flummoxed by the newbie's cluelessness. 00:19:15 jim: Before creating the DB. 00:19:38 oof... 00:20:29 jim: With Oracle's record, dare I experiment w/ 9i? 00:20:54 Not to mention 3 CDs worth of stuff to break. 00:21:27 well, I understand there are serious hinderances to use of 9i by *ACSs... 00:22:14 Like? 00:22:32 I think acs would need major rewriting... can't use the names "new" or "delete" 00:22:37 ybos i think made some changes. 00:22:39 or something 00:22:40 i think something is broken in static-pages :) 00:22:41 to their version. 00:22:54 rbm: add that to the list. change all delete's to del 00:23:02 paje: botsnack 00:23:02 thanks davb :) 00:23:17 * jim gives paje a static charge! 00:26:00 jim: W/ my non-LSE patched 2.4.18 kernel, Oracle eats up all my 2.25GB of memory in DB creation and does a little swapping too. With the patches, it was using ~1.6GB. 00:26:02 davb: You're keeying this list or should I? 00:28:17 rbm: i started one. 00:28:36 Argh. the openacs.org only has vi, no vim. How sick is that? 00:28:36 maybe we can setup an etp on there too. so everything is in one place. 00:28:43 or put that stuff in the bugtracker. 00:28:46 davb: We can start anything :) 00:30:28 jim: I used 00_block-highmem-all-18b-3.patch, /bkl_rollup-2.4.18-1.patch (carrier4) & fast_walkA2-2.4.18.patch (not the carrier4 version) 00:32:07 jim: If you manage to get the siorl-v2.2417.patch working w/ those, I'd be grateful to you. You can also get a 10_rawio-vary-io-2.patch, which I don't use as I don't have dedicated RAW disks. 00:34:11 wow, I'm not much for getting kernel code to work that doesn't already... 00:34:26 My C is non-existent. 00:34:59 Otherwise you could look around the .rej files and get it to work TM. 00:35:42 well, I have some C experience... and some patch/diff exp... but no kernel-level stuff 00:36:56 I came across the main patches in reading I/O Performance HOWTO: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/IO-Perf-HOWTO/ 00:37:12 davb: do you want openssl? 00:37:43 rbm: me? do we need it for the openacs site? ie do you want to use it for admin pages? 00:38:28 jim: siorl will apply cleanly but you'll get an early exit due to errors in make bzImage. 00:38:40 davb: Guess not eh? 00:38:47 let me bring this up then we think about that 00:38:59 sure, we can add it later. 00:39:10 hmmm... I don't understand the build env well enough... it doesn't make good use of make 00:41:04 WTH is supervise? 00:41:15 is this another one of djb's utils? 00:41:24 rbm: supervise is the coolest way to control aolserver 00:41:26 and yes. 00:41:31 paje supervise? 00:41:31 somebody said supervise was the coolest way to control aolserver 00:41:37 paje: botsnack 00:41:37 thanks davb :) 00:41:52 Boy, it sure looks like Ben is totally sold out on djb. Everything on this machine uses djb tools 00:41:59 rbm: it works! 00:42:38 He puts his tools on the most awkward of paths. 00:42:41 It's totally weird. 00:42:52 rbm: i will agree with that one. 00:43:32 you will need a run script for the aolservers. and we probably need permission to supervise those. 00:44:00 permission from whom? 00:44:22 Lars says to "cd /service". We don't have that directory 00:44:37 oh. 00:44:54 Where is the default for supervise's /service directory? 00:44:54 is openacs.org using that to control aolserver, or lars? 00:45:03 openacs.org seems to be using it too 00:45:05 its in /service 00:45:13 but you could put it anywhere. 00:45:14 root 14105 0.0 0.0 1336 52 ? S Jan31 0:00 supervise nrpep 00:45:27 it should be svscan i think. 00:45:39 we have supervise, tcpserver, qmail, the whole shpill 00:45:49 root 14103 0.0 0.0 1372 92 ? S Jan31 0:00 svscan /var/netsaint/service 00:46:02 ah, you found it. 00:46:37 Why? What's the big deal? 00:46:46 no idea :) 00:47:08 i see. svscan runs a supervise for every process it is controlling. 00:47:09 I guess I'm revealing a little more than I should about the machine 00:47:14 s/shpill/spiel? 00:47:20 sash: probably :) 00:48:22 davb: You have to tell me what to do with this about this djb weirdness 00:48:28 no problem. 00:48:49 first you need to find out where they stash the run scripts. ls -l the service directory. 00:49:47 didn't you say it was in the directory I pointed out above? 00:49:57 (BTW, this is why I *hate* logged channels) 00:50:05 oacs-logger: off 00:50:08 Why do we log this anyway? We should get rid of the logging bot 00:50:11 oacs-logger: stop 00:50:38 rbm: i like the log because i just type stuff into the channel that I might want to retrieve later. 00:50:45 oacs-logger: cut it out 00:50:48 darm 00:50:54 oacs-logger: silence 00:50:58 i can't even spell damn 00:51:06 davb: Keep your own darn logs then. 00:51:08 oacs-logger, off 12:07:49 oacs-logger on 12:07:49 oacs-logger: on 12:07:49 argh 12:07:49 oacs-logger go ahead 12:07:49 oacs-logger: on 12:07:49 argh 12:07:49 oh well. 12:08:11 wow, he takes forever to respond. 12:08:32 I am going to post some more general openacs toolkit improvement ideas here in a few minutes. 12:08:40 i am just letting my brain warm up 12:20:48 is rbm around? 12:29:42 PascalS (~pascal@213.211.144.207) has joined #openacs 12:31:09 Hiya 12:31:32 hey PascalS! 12:31:37 Hi Talli 12:31:38 hi PascalS 12:31:41 hu talli 12:31:46 yo davb 12:31:46 hu? 12:31:50 :) 12:32:05 PascalS: where are you in the world? 12:32:09 Do any of you have experience with wikis? 12:32:15 .nl 12:32:19 don't say wiki to talli! 12:32:20 zeist.utrecht.nl 12:32:24 * PascalS ducks 12:32:45 the netherlands aren't too bad 12:32:51 if you said germany i would be pissed 12:33:00 davb: i don't mind wikis 12:33:10 i know :) 12:33:33 Why, they beat you in the footbal (guessing here, I would not know) 12:33:35 i have some cool ideas for openacs that i can't believe someone hasn't already done. 12:33:48 davb: in the wiki context? 12:34:03 PascalS: not necessarily, but it would be useful for that too. 12:34:17 basically it involves using acs-rels to links stuff together. 12:34:34 ie. if you want to link an image to a content page, use an attached-image relationship 12:34:37 PascalS: yeah, game just ended 1-0 12:34:42 although i slept through it 12:34:46 if you want to have a related link section, use the same thing. 12:34:48 i caught the last 5 minutes and it was exciting 12:35:15 it would be hany for knowledge managemetn kind of stuff, plus most sites have a "related items" section. 12:35:19 talli: sorry, apart from the dutch not playing, I could not care less about footbal 12:35:29 haha 12:35:37 what happened? how did you guys not make it? 12:36:00 i was thinking of some sort of acs-service-contract to hook things into an interface to make these relationships. 12:36:06 talli: honestly, I haven't the foggiest, like I said: I truly don't care. 12:36:35 davb: sounds useful, 12:36:48 i am thinking of a service contract that givin an item_id or revision_id, a package will give back a URL, teitle, and description of an item. 12:37:10 based on which pcakge owns the item depends on which service contract is run. 12:37:21 this seems kinds obvious :) 12:37:26 davb: you should check out the CMS that luke built for urbanparks.org 12:37:29 so I am surprised noone has done it yet. 12:37:47 talli: ok. i will look. is it on the same server as the other stuff? 12:37:59 probably because it's a fair amount of work without the right infrastructure available. 12:38:29 lemme give you access to teh staging server 12:38:36 talli: the idea is witht he service contract, you could build any cms you want, and take advantage of this. you would not need to know what type of other packages they were as long as they implement the service contract. 12:38:47 yes, that sounds great 12:38:57 I love the basic openness of wikis, but they're all a wee bit too simple or only run on filesystem/mysql 12:39:09 the thing iwth this CMS is that you may want to see how he implemented the "topics" functionality 12:39:27 so that one article is shared across various content sections 12:39:28 I am thinkng of a user interface where you click "Create Relationship" for a page, and then browse to the second item, and click the relationship button again. it remembers the first item_id, and gets the second one, and makes the relationship. 12:39:35 talli: that sounds cool. 12:40:08 neophytos has some good ideas about categories, that could use acs-rels so that each package can have its own category tree mapped to a big site-wide tree. 12:40:24 anyway, i have to do some work, i'll be back around lunch time 12:41:04 davb: real quick, login to http://upo.museatech.net 12:41:07 the cool part is instead of creating a special interface on photo-album or something to add photos, you just use the relationships and just program the template to grab the related photos and display them with the contente page 12:41:17 ok 12:41:19 so i can give you admin priviliges and you can look at the system 12:41:27 davb: that all sounds like something I want. 12:41:34 just for ideas 12:41:40 cool. 12:41:50 also, davb, have you written up any of these ideas? 12:41:52 It would make managing a personal webspace a whole lot simpler. 12:41:57 i'm sure luke would be interested in speaking with you 12:41:59 about them 12:42:03 talli: i just did :) 12:42:12 cut and paste, cut and paste... 12:42:54 right, that is why i turned on the logger. i will write more later, i just wanted to capture the thought before i forgot. 12:43:02 i need a recorder or something in the car 12:43:12 do I see correctly that 4.5.0 is out? 12:43:15 ok i signed up, the usual email adress. 12:43:21 pascals, yes, i guess. 12:43:27 how do i change the time of my linux box? 12:43:33 it's two hours+ off 12:43:33 talli: is it offical we are waiting for the web site for the announcement? 12:43:40 ok, bbiab 12:43:41 hwclock 12:43:48 davb: ? 12:43:53 talli: just a sec. 12:43:58 talli: what? 12:44:12 davb: i didn't understand the question 12:44:23 talli: /usr/bin/rdate -s ntp.xs4all.nl &>/dev/null & 12:44:39 talli: i was wondering if you knew why noone announces that 4.5 is released more or less. 12:44:53 from a startup script, for example from your network connect script. 12:44:54 because we had discusssed before waiting for the web site. 12:45:49 oh, i think it's just because don's been overwhelmed by GP 12:45:54 they are launching this week 12:46:04 and they are probably pulling 20 hr days in order to have it ready 12:46:20 ah, that too :) 12:47:51 ok, really going back to work now. 12:53:58 bye 12:54:10 PascalS has quit ("Client Exiting") 13:03:35 I also like don's idea to expand the default permissions to publish and edit 13:25:21 cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs 13:38:49 donb (~chatzilla@ifwv.greenpeace.org) has joined #openacs 13:41:04 Starets (~Starets@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openacs 14:02:27 Starets has quit (Remote closed the connection) 14:04:58 talilee (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 14:05:39 hey donb! 14:05:43 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. We're in the middle of fundraising. You'll probably see a couple of global notices per day. Current status: we need about $11,877 more to reach our goal. http://lilo.sargasso.net .... there's more detail on WALLOPS if you want to see things happening, just +w your client. Thanks. 14:05:47 how's amsterdam coming along? 14:05:53 you haven't drank and smoked it away, have you? 14:05:58 talilee has quit (Client Quit) 14:06:29 talilee (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 14:07:04 We're doing OK, trying to figure out how to support 10 hits-per-second on a lousy little two-process Sun E250 box 14:07:15 We'll cache content and be OK 14:07:18 uh, is that lousy? 14:07:41 two-processor is lousy? 14:07:48 Sun E250s are old boxes, a lot slower than (say) a dual-Athlon with DDR, say about twice as slow 14:07:57 whoa 14:08:10 is that what they have or is that what the colo joint is giving them? 14:08:22 but that's what the datacenter has contracted for with the German Greenpeace folks, who are in charge of server facilities 14:08:31 ugh 14:08:44 colo joint it makes some sense since Oracle supports Sun much better than Linux 14:08:54 for now at least 14:09:22 larry's made it priority number one to get oracle top notch on linux 14:09:28 I think they've slumped off, to be honest. now that the dot bombed there's not nearly the market for low-end Oracle servers that they imagined they'd tap into 14:09:36 of course, priority 0 is fleecing the public utilities of the world 14:09:46 Yeah, larry sez doesn't mean oracle duz 14:11:55 you are missing a nice social, you twit. Malte Sussedorf, Tilmann Singer, Ben Koot, some italians and other germans ... Lars ... all the cool people 14:12:06 tell me abotu it 14:12:10 i'm not happy that i can't make it 14:12:26 but it's 2K for a ticket now, unless there's a way to get cheaper tickets somewhere 14:12:26 that's a double-negative 14:12:37 Try priceline or the like! 14:12:43 good idea 14:12:45 i'll give it a shot 14:13:15 You could also try someplace like Brussels which is just a two-three hour train ride away and might be a lot cheaper since A'dam's such a tourist destination 14:13:20 Of course the train costs money too 14:13:27 i'll check it out 14:13:39 but i would prefer it to be a one day, one hangover kind of trip 14:13:39 Anyway ... didn't really explore furfly hosting it because it makes sense to host it in Europe given the Eurocentric nature of GP 14:13:46 ah, ok 14:14:05 So what's up with this NGO/Open Source conference that might happen in September? 14:15:27 uhm... 14:15:31 kinda dropped the ball on that 14:15:39 i will need to pick it up again with the RH guys 14:15:52 yeah you need to do this 14:16:00 been busy with other shit and spending massive amounts of work on something that's not immediately bringing money in is a toughie 14:17:22 when would you like to announce the linux world stuff 14:17:23 ? 14:18:08 Anytime you want 14:18:11 ok 14:18:29 perhaps you should announce it and say i will follow up? 14:19:01 should we establish rules for participation beforehand or ask the community for input? 14:21:07 actually, i can announce it 14:21:34 and i'll suggest a framework for rules, and then ask for community input 14:22:03 bduell (~bduell@gowron.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs 14:26:42 You announce it etc ... I've gotta run, here, be back later ... 14:26:59 ok, talk to you alter 14:36:02 btw, don, when you get back... 14:36:38 it would be really nice if we could use the event manager for the linux world event since davb and rbm will be getting the new site ready 14:36:52 does there happen to be an ETA on that tool? 14:39:07 I don't think the Sloan event package will be of much use for such things it is very specialized 14:39:20 hmm... bummer 14:39:21 ok 14:39:41 ybos said they were building one 14:39:57 but i don't know what state it would be in the oacs, e.g. porting it to PG 14:45:38 Well, ybox schmeebos, you know that ... 14:45:44 ybos that is 14:46:09 http://213.61.48.246/homepage/ is the sneak preview IP for GP Planet 14:46:09 B: http://213.61.48.246/homepage/ from donb 14:47:06 check it out 14:47:33 also http://213.61.48.246/nederlands 14:48:12 nederland not nederlands 14:53:12 i get an oasc installatin error on the first ip 14:53:34 and on the other i get a "no doc" error 14:54:02 "* OpenACS could not allocate a handle from database pool "subquery"." 14:55:13 now it works 14:55:14 very nice! 14:58:29 database server crashed very bad 14:59:28 there are linux client <-> solaris server Oracle bugs (not our AOLServer driver) 14:59:39 markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-178.ip.alltel.net) has joined #Openacs 14:59:42 Oracle support gave us a workaround for the one, looks like we just hit another 14:59:59 fortunately the datacenter has decent escalatable Oracle support 15:00:15 that's good 15:00:28 some other oracle support freak/genius just showed up 15:01:07 I know I'm a freak. who's the genius? 15:01:19 * markd2 freaks out 15:01:28 oom 15:02:33 hi rbm and markd2 15:04:01 hi all 15:04:14 hey guys 15:04:45 Oracle client linux x86 <-> Oracle server Solaris Sparc blows or sucks depending on your POV 15:04:49 hi donb. 15:04:54 Hey dave! 15:04:57 i'll keep that in mind. 15:05:15 I had to rewrite all your code! (not really, I just util_memoized the keyword query :) 15:05:29 cache cache cache oh fun! 15:05:55 cache a bit here cache a bit there cache a bit cache a bit everywhere ... 15:05:59 i though that might be necessary. 15:06:04 especially fo rthe home page. 15:06:06 Yeah, it's not just there, no worries 15:06:31 the site looks great. 15:06:54 * markd2 sets the cache and carry-bit 15:08:04 Y'all are going to miss a fine social next wednesday 15:08:35 malte, lars, tilmann singer, bruno, me ... da nederlands is at risk of running out of bier 15:08:48 (well ... not due to that lightweight lars) 15:09:03 ok, i'm definitely going to try and make it out 15:09:33 brb 15:12:12 Talli, if you come out we can probably drain Germany of bier, too :) 15:12:36 i'll bring my other hollow leg, then 15:18:47 donb: have you visited the oacs 4.5 instance we put on the openacs.org box? 15:19:32 no, I haven't, but I'm excited about the fact that folks are starting to work on it 15:20:19 Yeah. 15:21:01 where is it at? 15:21:01 or their money 15:21:41 donb: http://208.184.248.90/ 15:21:57 donb: I think that's currently ny04.openforce.net 15:22:53 It's empty ... good work! :) 15:23:05 Will you be rolling over Musea's earlier templating etc? 15:23:26 donb: Yes. We'll be moving whatever musea has done on the old site 15:23:33 Cool ... 15:35:50 talli: that is exactly what I am talking about (the UPO site topics etc.) but totally generalized so any acs_object can be linked to another. the key is the API and service contracts that let packages make the links without knowing about the other packages. 15:36:21 brb, have to reinstall office... 15:40:08 davb: very cool 15:40:13 you should definitely chat with luke then 15:46:52 yes, I will. i think this will not happen until after the site is built :) 16:16:54 rbm: i hope you've stopped bellyaching abotu how bad brazil is 16:17:42 talilee: :) They played okay yesterday. 16:17:53 England didn't play well. 16:18:31 vinod (~vinod@66-108-0-75.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:19:11 whoa 16:19:18 it sounds like you're unhappy they won? 16:21:56 Headlines here are "brazil beats limp english" ... now they're attacking their manhood! 16:22:43 they english haven't had manhood since they lost their empire and the crown jewel of the orient 16:23:05 since then, they've not had the family jewels of the crotch 16:23:28 talilee: No, I'm happy. 16:24:08 the English were playing dirty yesterday, faking fouls and penalties all the time. 16:24:16 s/yesterday/today/ 16:26:39 was ronaldinho screwed? 16:27:53 He was. He didn't foul that English guy, he totally faked it. 16:28:03 And the referree bought it. 16:28:20 Do you know Ronaldinho's nickname? 16:29:02 no 16:29:16 Chupa cabra :-) 16:29:47 That's the mythical "goatsucker" that terrorizes latin america 16:30:11 is he a goatsucker? 16:30:14 The funniest episode of Dexter's Laboratory is the Chupa Cabra one. 16:30:36 talilee: No, but he looks like alledged drawings of one, with those big teeth. 16:31:05 :) 16:31:15 him and ronaldo 16:31:33 Yeah. 16:34:40 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-165-215.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 16:36:23 hey k2pts! 16:36:25 hey k2pts 16:36:38 hey talilee, rbm 16:36:43 rbm: congrats 16:36:55 remember what I was telling you the other day about brazzil 16:36:58 ? 16:37:26 the whole complex heard me celebrating brazil's win today :) 16:38:35 is donb here or just logged in in absentia? 16:41:15 k2pts: :) 16:41:24 k2pts: he's here 16:41:26 paje: seen donb 16:41:27 donb was last seen on #openacs 19 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: Headlines here are "brazil beats limp english" ... now they're attacking their manhood! [Fri Jun 21 11:21:54 2002] 16:42:13