00:03:23 davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-162-13.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:08:48 davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:22:07 sash (~MIA@213-48-145-20.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs 00:22:29 Advance the .Net, Examples from the Future of the Internet: http://www.communicationism.org/advancethe.net/ 00:22:33 sash has left #openacs 00:37:49 talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 00:43:38 anyone home this eve? 00:43:59 hey 00:46:37 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:46:53 ok, neverwinter nights is way too slow on my computer. 00:47:00 back to work, i guess 00:47:23 hey dave 00:47:28 hi Infraphylax 00:47:30 I found out why my computer was getting very hot 00:47:37 oh. 00:47:40 The Power Supply fan crapped it's pants 00:47:59 good thing I have more than 1 computer 00:48:09 aigh. 00:48:17 did it destroy anything in the computer? 00:49:03 howling-wolf (~wolf@adsl-34-224-116.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 00:49:27 nope 00:49:45 It just made the capacitors and whatnot real real real hot and I turned it off (probably just in time) 00:49:56 lucky. 00:49:57 Might have started a fire or just shorted out everything 00:50:27 what brand PS was it? 00:50:33 generic ;) 00:50:36 ah. 00:52:25 But it's ok 00:52:29 I'll go buy a new one eventually 00:52:34 cool. 01:00:35 is $99 good for 512mb ddr sdram? 01:01:45 yes 01:01:50 ah. 01:01:51 Generic or name brand? 01:01:53 that's about right 01:02:04 i've seen it maybe $5 cheaper from shady sources 01:02:20 oh, this is tiger-direct 01:02:54 that's cool. 01:02:56 wow 256 ddr is $39.99 01:03:16 its the same price as regular sdram 01:03:18 the sick thing is, the DOJ is going after RAM manufactureres 01:03:23 for what? 01:03:27 ... they believe the natural price of ram should be even lower 01:03:32 essentially, there was price fixing 01:03:47 wow 01:03:50 I didn't hear about that 01:03:51 they have PNY for $39.99 256 DDR (266mhz) 01:04:00 there are only a few big ram manufacturers. collusion is easy. 01:04:20 heh, 512mb regular sdram is $129 01:05:06 jun_ (~jun@202.163.222.186) has joined #openacs 01:05:43 i'm still not sure how i feel about walmart & mandrake 01:05:50 hi talli i am here now 01:05:54 hi jun 01:06:42 hi dave 01:06:51 aha vinod is here 01:07:06 is crucial ram alot better than generic? 01:07:14 yes 01:07:25 if you have money and can buy it do buy it 01:07:26 ok, i will pay the price. 01:07:39 make sure you set your bios timings to use it 01:07:45 because it is for someone else's computer and I don't want to fix it :) 01:07:52 it is also their money 01:07:52 okay, davb. 01:07:55 dave 01:07:55 it? 01:07:57 or their money 01:07:58 samsung is good too 01:08:07 quality ram 01:08:14 or you could just go to crucial.com 01:08:23 i usually just hit newegg. 01:08:31 :) 01:08:32 newegg rocks 01:08:48 i envy you guys that can pick their memory choice 01:08:52 crucial is nice, only because they tell you precisely which type of RAM to use. if it doesn't work, you can throw it back in their face. 01:09:03 that is cool. 01:09:22 jun_ ? 01:09:22 hmmm... jun_ is not looking at jahia 01:09:29 paje, shut up! 01:09:30 Infraphylax: what? 01:09:42 i kill you, you useless piece of rusty old junk! 01:09:48 * Infraphylax bites paje 01:10:42 wow 01:10:55 hey! its cheaper at crucial.com for the same ram. 01:11:13 davb: not surprising; crucial makes their own ram. 01:11:27 davb: and they are located in the middle of nowhere, so overhead is low. 01:11:35 of course. 256 ddr 2100 is $49 with a $10 coupon. 01:12:40 cool. i was going to attend a computer fair, but I think I will just buy this stuff online. 01:12:56 and free shipping. 01:13:41 davb: crucial ships really fast. 01:13:41 yeah Crucial is good about that 01:13:46 they usually have good prices for their ram 01:14:00 newegg sometimes has delays, b/c they don't actually stocks lots of their products. 01:14:32 Actually...they do :) 01:14:51 I have been buying from them for a long time and had my stuff always delivered in 3-4 days 01:14:54 sometimes, newegg and mwave will pass off orders to their suppliers 01:15:00 right; they are reliable 01:15:23 ACSJ 5.0 is out 01:15:24 but sometimes slower than, say, crucial. crucial does 1 thing only, and that focus shows. they are insane. 01:15:29 any recommendations on a cdrw brand? 01:15:47 drive that is 01:16:33 tdk velocd 01:16:40 anything with 'burn-proof' 01:16:47 _not_ HP drives. 01:17:05 ok. 01:17:11 i have a teac that works great. 01:17:41 as long as it can do multisession & has 'burn-proof' type technology, any drive should be OK. 01:17:45 assuming the drivers are OK. :-) 01:18:00 hp was a major disappointment to me. 01:18:09 Lite-On! 01:18:18 is lite-on good? 01:18:21 yeah 01:18:30 cds in 4 minutes :) 01:18:32 lite-on makes those fancy cases, right? 01:18:38 dunno 01:18:45 I know they make good optical drives 01:18:59 hehehehehe 01:19:14 Dave, do you have "PRoblem Solvers" on your local Fox station? 01:19:15 i am looking at an aopen, it has nero included. 01:19:24 probably, i don't watch tv. 01:19:27 ah 01:19:32 in case you're all feeling insane, too... 01:19:36 It's funny they go out and try to solve someone's problem 01:19:40 i've been using this for the last 2 months 01:19:42 http://www.adstech.com/products/PYRO25DriveKit/intro/PYRO25Drive.asp?pid=API-808 01:19:43 C: http://www.adstech.com/products/PYRO25DriveKit/intro/PYRO25Drive.asp?pid=API-808 from howling-wolf 01:20:02 and it's been incredible. It's the easiest way to back stuff up & separate 'fun' files from 'biz' files. 01:20:13 you can stuff a 60gig lapop drive into it, and away you go... 01:20:23 that is cool. 01:20:48 i keep all my 'fun' stuff on it, like mp3s, etc, so my laptop doesn't get clogged up with junk. 01:20:50 it really helps. 01:21:09 :) 01:24:46 i asked a question earlier today about good web graphics 01:24:51 lite-on is ok check out http://www.tomshardware.com 01:24:53 (like for rounding off corners, etc...) 01:25:05 they recently had a review of 4 CDRW 01:25:12 would you believe that even with that mega-list, i can't find one decent CDROM collection of simple graphics 01:26:12 that is amazing 01:26:22 i know i have seen that stuff before, but it was years ago. 01:26:27 davb: i agree. 01:28:31 so much for sleeping 01:28:38 Going bowling :/ 01:28:56 GAH! 01:29:00 47 cent stamps? 01:29:03 err 37 01:29:05 what a ripoff 01:29:17 Damn it...why can't everyone just use e-mail and fedex 01:29:19 morons 01:32:41 that's an outrage 01:33:14 the volume of letters that people send has been declining 01:33:23 and with 9/11 the postal service has had increased expenses, so.... 01:36:36 yeah well, to hell with them 01:36:44 Soon it will be more convenient to send FedEx 01:37:08 that's true.. if FedEx can get their rates down a bit lower 01:37:15 and set up a 4-day service.. 01:38:42 they have a 4 day service :) 01:38:45 Express saver 01:38:54 3 to 4 business days 01:39:03 how much $$? 01:39:09 Sometimes it gets sent in 1 day though like my package to Roberto 01:39:16 Depends where and what you ship 01:39:23 like, a letter 01:39:29 from ny to california 01:40:06 www.fedex.com/rates 01:40:07 ? 01:42:32 I get to right before I run the script to make oracle's initial database... and it keeps claiming the database isn't open 01:42:55 * jim gonna run one script at a time 01:43:59 ok, the first one produced errors... 01:47:44 SVRMGR> SVRMGR> Connected. 01:47:44 SVRMGR> ORA-01081: cannot start already-running ORACLE - shut it down first 01:48:05 CREATE DATABASE "ora8" 01:48:06 * 01:48:06 ORA-01501: CREATE DATABASE failed 01:48:06 ORA-00600: internal error code, arguments: [1403], [], [], [], [], [], [], [] 01:48:34 * jim tries rebooting the machine 01:51:41 I think that worked :) 01:51:56 not getting the above errors any longer... 01:52:22 so: some state is getting stuck between install of oracle and install of its database 01:52:43 jim: do you do the database create right from the oracle installer? 01:53:55 nope 01:54:02 I have it create a script 01:54:27 like (context: acs) always :) 01:54:47 ok 01:54:58 weird, that always worked for me. 01:55:03 same here 01:55:22 even for 8.1.7, i have reinstalled it like 4 times :) 01:55:56 well, I've only done 8.1.7 twice, and a year or so ago... and -weirdly- too. 01:56:13 but this one is as normal as possible 01:56:38 so, the two special things for woody are... 01:57:13 1) it will ask you to run root.sh... just before doing so, install the glibc-stubs 01:57:26 then edit and run root.sh 01:57:39 really? i do that after the whole install is done. before i run the database script. 01:57:48 intersting. 01:57:54 2) reboot just before running the database script 01:58:10 well, that seems to be what it boils down to... 01:58:18 did you get the listener to configure? 01:58:24 yes, no problem there 01:58:39 ok. 01:59:00 i am using sid, so it might be a little different, but I can never get the listener to work. 01:59:19 hmm, should I have created that dir for intermedia before ru8nning the db create script? 01:59:26 talli has quit (Remote closed the connection) 01:59:34 not sure. that is the first i heard of that tip. 02:00:05 well, I'm just going to make sure the listener is up before installing oacs 02:00:32 it might actually be the intermedia directory that is causing the intermedia errors. 02:00:41 if that works, cool enuf... if not, I'll just blow away the user/tablespace and try again 02:00:55 right. 02:01:17 note here also... not sure if I told you I'm running 8.1.7.0.0, not .0.1 02:01:35 i am not sure what I have, whatvere i downloaded way back when it first came out. 02:01:46 I think I will download .0.1 soon or now 02:01:52 :) 02:02:34 then I can have the same problems as everyone else :) 02:02:39 ah 02:05:06 what was weird here, was some things thought "oracle is already up... that's an error!" while others thought, "can't reach oracle, it's down, that's an error!" 02:05:29 obviously you oracle install is run by a committee 02:05:46 roses are red... 02:05:54 violets are blue... 02:06:19 I have multiple personalities, each installing a different part of oracle... 02:06:23 and so do I! 02:07:02 jun_: get all the good ideas from CCM 02:08:00 one thing that is good in CCM is bebop 02:08:13 i had not heard that before. 02:08:18 i have talked to a aD developer about an idea that i had 02:08:46 basically make all packages out html on their adps 02:09:01 example file storage will put out xml rather than html 02:09:08 which is easy to do just edit all adp 02:09:32 the the subsite template will convert the xml into html or whatever ml 02:09:45 interesting idea. 02:09:56 this is easy to do but needs all packages adp on all packages edited 02:10:07 of course this will have some performance issue 02:10:20 what we can do is just use html as our xml 02:10:20 what will you use to convert from xml to html? xslt? 02:10:36 xslt or good old tcl 02:10:52 i don't care if its xlst or any good old code 02:11:03 it would hake it easier to template per subsite. 02:11:09 yup 02:11:22 that means subsite1's file storage is very different from subsite2 02:11:38 if you don't do the transform in the subsite template level 02:12:05 then each package must have if subsite = subsite 1 { write this..} else {....} 02:12:16 wouldn't that be great! 02:12:19 that is just crazy 02:12:31 we are suddenly on par with bebop? 02:12:33 but you can do some amazing stuff with CSS 02:12:43 all we need is just all package maintainers to edit their adp 02:12:47 nope 02:12:54 i have extensively used CSS 02:12:59 it can only do so much 02:13:04 true. 02:13:12 CSS can't say change news 02:13:32 for example I wan't subsite1 to have its news with this nice icon 02:13:43 and subsite2 is just have plain text 02:13:49 you can't do that in CSS 02:13:58 but with good old backend power you can 02:14:08 its just a matter of agreeing how to do it 02:14:16 interesting. 02:14:37 ok, while the oracle tarball downloads and whil;e the oracle db script runs, I'm gonna clean my oven and watch teevee :) 02:14:42 i am not putting all my ideas out on the bboard because it migh generate so much traffic 02:14:52 good idea. 02:15:00 i am installing oracle too 02:15:10 i hope mine goes well like the last time i did it. 02:15:25 i think you really need to evaluate the solution more, xsl vs. tcl evaluation etc... 02:15:58 does anyone know why each package has its own foo-read foo-write foo-admin privileges? 02:16:06 what is the point of having default ones then? 02:16:31 is there any disadvantage to just using the built in ones? 02:16:32 talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 02:16:39 everyone hide 02:17:01 don't worry, my pants are on 02:17:03 for now 02:17:07 well some package are just too permission happy 02:17:17 some are justifiable 02:17:26 example of permission happy package is news 02:17:34 if you just have copies of read, write, admin, i don't see the point. 02:17:35 why have news_read, news_blah 02:17:43 where in its the same 02:17:51 but bboard makes good use of custom permission 02:18:00 like create_category, create_message 02:18:08 since not all user will have both privs 02:18:18 I am wonderign because etp has its own copies of red, write, admin 02:18:19 i believe donb is aware of this 02:18:28 yes. 02:18:40 i believe ETP does not have its own 02:18:48 hmmm. 02:18:51 but it may have in ETP2 but nothing I can think of right now 02:19:05 ok, maybe not 02:20:10 i am confusing myself. anyway, for example, i am trying to recreate the classic news package in ETP2. I need to be able to let registeres users submit news items. 02:20:41 or ratherm i want the admin to be able to allow registered users to suggest news items, but not approve them etc... 02:20:43 so now i guess you may need a custom permission 02:20:50 ok :) 02:21:10 or just make anybody that can read is allowed to submit 02:21:40 well, you can set the create permission perhaps to registered users, but not edit or admin. 02:21:41 or like if { read && submit_p } { submit feature is on } 02:21:58 so atleast you can set submit_p in the package params 02:22:13 maybe. 02:22:16 since you may want other etp instance not to allow submissions 02:22:24 right. 02:22:38 it will have to be per package instance. 02:22:52 right now etp allows you to set the permissions per package instance. 02:23:20 so I figure, just as a suggest-item page to the user-visible pages, and check the permission there. 02:23:29 paje: seen Infraphylax 02:23:29 Infraphylax was last seen on #openacs 43 minutes and 21 seconds ago, saying: ? [Wed Jun 19 20:40:11 2002] 02:23:40 that way the regular users don't access the www/admin pages 02:24:03 yup yup 02:24:19 cool, thanks for listening :) 02:24:51 davb: getting our megalist ready? :) 02:25:04 rbm: uh, not yet..... 02:25:19 i was working on finishing up etp 2.0 02:25:29 go go gadget davb! 02:25:34 heh 02:25:39 hey rbm 02:25:47 hey there 02:26:56 rbm: can you setup a small openacs 4.5 instance and install just bugtracker so we can track the changes the need to be done to the openacs.org 4.5 code? or should be run it inside itself? 02:27:29 I think we need to try to merge the 4.5 release code with the openacs.org code over at museatech. 02:28:49 davb: I can setup an instance, sure. 02:29:11 an instance would be great 02:29:15 also an instance for the docs 02:29:37 pat and i have suggestions for the docs 02:29:48 oh good idea. 02:29:50 rather, he might have stuff that are better for comments 02:30:00 but i would like to make some suggestions to make things clearer 02:31:33 ok, if there are no other items to discuss tonight, I am going to bed. I will be available intermittently tomorrow, but i'll be checking in. 02:33:19 talli: what do you mean by an instance for the docs? 02:33:28 a bugtracker instance 02:37:20 bye 02:37:21 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 02:37:37 talli: oh, okay 03:03:58 jun_ has quit ("Client Exiting") 05:30:14 howling-wolf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:54:13 norelent (~chrismj@cs24243244-173.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs 06:56:22 I was wondering if anyone has had success using directory in 4.5. I just get db errors on a fresh install 06:56:34 and I don't find anything (easily) on bboards about it 07:03:00 norelent has left #openacs 07:54:29 tst 07:54:49 tst agn (sorry...) 08:11:15 vinod has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:50:35 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. If you haven't had a chance, please take a look at http://somegeek.org/status.html (updated June 19). The site may be overloaded at first but please give it a try. Thanks. 11:42:55 davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 11:43:00 hello 12:17:06 heh, check this out: "As the number of different privileges in the system is expected to be reasonably small, there is no pressing need to cache the flattened ansector-descendant view of the privilege hierarchy in a specially maintained table like it is done in the case of the context hierarchy." 12:17:21 quote from acs permissions tediously explained. looks like someone forgot to tell the package developers. 12:22:53 ok, here is a question. I want to grant create priviliege to registered users, so they can suggest news items for my etp based news package. 12:23:26 should i create a new "approve" permission, or make that activity an admin only function, so only those with admin over the etp/news package can approve? 12:29:55 arg 12:29:59 blorg! 12:30:01 OOOOOORGLE! 12:30:25 Amount I owe...230$ on credit card :'( 12:30:33 then an 85$ ticket 12:30:40 that's about 300$ 12:30:46 hrmmm 12:30:48 brb 12:31:54 the trick is to make etp 2.0 flexible, but not over engineered like cms 12:33:27 ah, comparing CMS it creates 10 new privileges. which makes sense. it was designed to control an entire site. 12:33:31 hmmmm. 12:33:51 Morning dave 12:33:56 hi Infraphylax 12:34:42 * Infraphylax flexes his spectral abilities 12:34:43 woo 12:34:48 Should I do direct deposit? 12:35:18 yes! 12:35:24 Why? 12:35:24 :) 12:35:33 because you don't have to stop at the bank. 12:35:56 but it is handy to have a debit card, so you can get the money back out without stopping at an atm. 12:35:56 yeah I do 12:35:57 lol 12:36:06 I'll have to go get my money OUT of the bank anyway 12:36:28 that is what the debit card is for. 12:37:21 should i got to this tonight? Seminar Topic: Value of Integrating Open Source Solutions-referencing excerpts from Blue Slate's recent presentation at Java One 2002 12:37:21 yeah but that's how you overdraw from your checking account and get slapped with 60$ fees 12:37:44 I could follow that sentence up to the Source part and then my brain went blank 12:39:04 i have a mental picture of how much $$$ i have in my account. 12:44:22 yeah so do I 12:44:30 but I also like going real close to the bottom 12:48:43 :) 13:13:23 i just had another idea. 13:19:43 hey guys 13:20:30 cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs 13:31:07 hi talli and cro 13:31:14 hey davb 13:32:52 talli: should we setp a bugtacker for etp 2.0? 13:32:58 or just use email? 13:33:03 bugtracker! 13:33:07 heh 13:33:17 ok, ok 13:33:39 we should make it as public as possible 13:33:46 sure. 13:33:59 no problem. 13:34:35 I wish we could seperate out the packages from the openacs-core over at openacs.org. then we could use the cvs over that and set releases for packages seperate from openacs. 13:34:49 I am sure its coming :) 13:49:07 talli has quit (Remote closed the connection) 14:00:34 * davb loves create or replace 14:17:38 talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 14:59:15 hmmm 15:04:19 i'm hungry 15:33:47 bduell (~bduell@gowron.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs 15:35:02 me too 15:39:13 ooom 15:39:27 paje: seen Infraphylax 15:39:27 Infraphylax was last seen on #openacs 4 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: me too [Thu Jun 20 10:35:04 2002] 15:39:32 Nice :) 15:40:00 Besides sounding like there's a vacuum cleaner under my desk, this machine is pretty sweet. 15:41:53 ? 15:42:04