IRC log of openacs on 2002-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:23 [davb]

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00:08:48 [davb]

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00:22:07 [sash]

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00:22:29 [sash]

Advance the .Net, Examples from the Future of the Internet: http://www.communicationism.org/advancethe.net/

00:22:33 [sash]

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00:37:49 [talli]

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00:43:38 [talli]

anyone home this eve?

00:43:59 [Infraphylax]

hey

00:46:37 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

00:46:53 [davb]

ok, neverwinter nights is way too slow on my computer.

00:47:00 [davb]

back to work, i guess

00:47:23 [Infraphylax]

hey dave

00:47:28 [davb]

hi Infraphylax

00:47:30 [Infraphylax]

I found out why my computer was getting very hot

00:47:37 [davb]

oh.

00:47:40 [Infraphylax]

The Power Supply fan crapped it's pants

00:47:59 [Infraphylax]

good thing I have more than 1 computer

00:48:09 [davb]

aigh.

00:48:17 [davb]

did it destroy anything in the computer?

00:49:03 [howling-wolf]

howling-wolf (~wolf@adsl-34-224-116.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

00:49:27 [Infraphylax]

nope

00:49:45 [Infraphylax]

It just made the capacitors and whatnot real real real hot and I turned it off (probably just in time)

00:49:56 [davb]

lucky.

00:49:57 [Infraphylax]

Might have started a fire or just shorted out everything

00:50:27 [davb]

what brand PS was it?

00:50:33 [Infraphylax]

generic ;)

00:50:36 [davb]

ah.

00:52:25 [Infraphylax]

But it's ok

00:52:29 [Infraphylax]

I'll go buy a new one eventually

00:52:34 [davb]

cool.

01:00:35 [davb]

is $99 good for 512mb ddr sdram?

01:01:45 [Infraphylax]

yes

01:01:50 [davb]

ah.

01:01:51 [Infraphylax]

Generic or name brand?

01:01:53 [howling-wolf]

that's about right

01:02:04 [howling-wolf]

i've seen it maybe $5 cheaper from shady sources

01:02:20 [davb]

oh, this is tiger-direct

01:02:54 [howling-wolf]

that's cool.

01:02:56 [davb]

wow 256 ddr is $39.99

01:03:16 [davb]

its the same price as regular sdram

01:03:18 [howling-wolf]

the sick thing is, the DOJ is going after RAM manufactureres

01:03:23 [davb]

for what?

01:03:27 [howling-wolf]

... they believe the natural price of ram should be even lower

01:03:32 [howling-wolf]

essentially, there was price fixing

01:03:47 [Infraphylax]

wow

01:03:50 [Infraphylax]

I didn't hear about that

01:03:51 [davb]

they have PNY for $39.99 256 DDR (266mhz)

01:04:00 [howling-wolf]

there are only a few big ram manufacturers. collusion is easy.

01:04:20 [davb]

heh, 512mb regular sdram is $129

01:05:06 [jun_]

jun_ (~jun@202.163.222.186) has joined #openacs

01:05:43 [howling-wolf]

i'm still not sure how i feel about walmart & mandrake

01:05:50 [jun_]

hi talli i am here now

01:05:54 [davb]

hi jun

01:06:42 [jun_]

hi dave

01:06:51 [jun_]

aha vinod is here

01:07:06 [davb]

is crucial ram alot better than generic?

01:07:14 [jun_]

yes

01:07:25 [jun_]

if you have money and can buy it do buy it

01:07:26 [davb]

ok, i will pay the price.

01:07:39 [jun_]

make sure you set your bios timings to use it

01:07:45 [davb]

because it is for someone else's computer and I don't want to fix it :)

01:07:52 [davb]

it is also their money

01:07:52 [paje]

okay, davb.

01:07:55 [Infraphylax]

dave

01:07:55 [davb]

it?

01:07:57 [paje]

or their money

01:07:58 [Infraphylax]

samsung is good too

01:08:07 [Infraphylax]

quality ram

01:08:14 [howling-wolf]

or you could just go to crucial.com

01:08:23 [davb]

i usually just hit newegg.

01:08:31 [Infraphylax]

:)

01:08:32 [Infraphylax]

newegg rocks

01:08:48 [jun_]

i envy you guys that can pick their memory choice

01:08:52 [howling-wolf]

crucial is nice, only because they tell you precisely which type of RAM to use. if it doesn't work, you can throw it back in their face.

01:09:03 [davb]

that is cool.

01:09:22 [Infraphylax]

jun_ ?

01:09:22 [paje]

hmmm... jun_ is not looking at jahia

01:09:29 [Infraphylax]

paje, shut up!

01:09:30 [paje]

Infraphylax: what?

01:09:42 [Infraphylax]

i kill you, you useless piece of rusty old junk!

01:09:48 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax bites paje

01:10:42 [davb]

wow

01:10:55 [davb]

hey! its cheaper at crucial.com for the same ram.

01:11:13 [howling-wolf]

davb: not surprising; crucial makes their own ram.

01:11:27 [howling-wolf]

davb: and they are located in the middle of nowhere, so overhead is low.

01:11:35 [davb]

of course. 256 ddr 2100 is $49 with a $10 coupon.

01:12:40 [davb]

cool. i was going to attend a computer fair, but I think I will just buy this stuff online.

01:12:56 [davb]

and free shipping.

01:13:41 [howling-wolf]

davb: crucial ships really fast.

01:13:41 [Infraphylax]

yeah Crucial is good about that

01:13:46 [Infraphylax]

they usually have good prices for their ram

01:14:00 [howling-wolf]

newegg sometimes has delays, b/c they don't actually stocks lots of their products.

01:14:32 [Infraphylax]

Actually...they do :)

01:14:51 [Infraphylax]

I have been buying from them for a long time and had my stuff always delivered in 3-4 days

01:14:54 [howling-wolf]

sometimes, newegg and mwave will pass off orders to their suppliers

01:15:00 [howling-wolf]

right; they are reliable

01:15:23 [jun_]

ACSJ 5.0 is out

01:15:24 [howling-wolf]

but sometimes slower than, say, crucial. crucial does 1 thing only, and that focus shows. they are insane.

01:15:29 [davb]

any recommendations on a cdrw brand?

01:15:47 [davb]

drive that is

01:16:33 [howling-wolf]

tdk velocd

01:16:40 [howling-wolf]

anything with 'burn-proof'

01:16:47 [howling-wolf]

_not_ HP drives.

01:17:05 [davb]

ok.

01:17:11 [davb]

i have a teac that works great.

01:17:41 [howling-wolf]

as long as it can do multisession & has 'burn-proof' type technology, any drive should be OK.

01:17:45 [howling-wolf]

assuming the drivers are OK. :-)

01:18:00 [howling-wolf]

hp was a major disappointment to me.

01:18:09 [Infraphylax]

Lite-On!

01:18:18 [davb]

is lite-on good?

01:18:21 [Infraphylax]

yeah

01:18:30 [Infraphylax]

cds in 4 minutes :)

01:18:32 [howling-wolf]

lite-on makes those fancy cases, right?

01:18:38 [Infraphylax]

dunno

01:18:45 [Infraphylax]

I know they make good optical drives

01:18:59 [Infraphylax]

hehehehehe

01:19:14 [Infraphylax]

Dave, do you have "PRoblem Solvers" on your local Fox station?

01:19:15 [davb]

i am looking at an aopen, it has nero included.

01:19:24 [davb]

probably, i don't watch tv.

01:19:27 [Infraphylax]

ah

01:19:32 [howling-wolf]

in case you're all feeling insane, too...

01:19:36 [Infraphylax]

It's funny they go out and try to solve someone's problem

01:19:40 [howling-wolf]

i've been using this for the last 2 months

01:19:42 [howling-wolf]

http://www.adstech.com/products/PYRO25DriveKit/intro/PYRO25Drive.asp?pid=API-808

01:19:43 [oacs-chump]

C: http://www.adstech.com/products/PYRO25DriveKit/intro/PYRO25Drive.asp?pid=API-808 from howling-wolf

01:20:02 [howling-wolf]

and it's been incredible. It's the easiest way to back stuff up & separate 'fun' files from 'biz' files.

01:20:13 [howling-wolf]

you can stuff a 60gig lapop drive into it, and away you go...

01:20:23 [davb]

that is cool.

01:20:48 [howling-wolf]

i keep all my 'fun' stuff on it, like mp3s, etc, so my laptop doesn't get clogged up with junk.

01:20:50 [howling-wolf]

it really helps.

01:21:09 [Infraphylax]

:)

01:24:46 [howling-wolf]

i asked a question earlier today about good web graphics

01:24:51 [jun_]

lite-on is ok check out http://www.tomshardware.com

01:24:53 [howling-wolf]

(like for rounding off corners, etc...)

01:25:05 [jun_]

they recently had a review of 4 CDRW

01:25:12 [howling-wolf]

would you believe that even with that mega-list, i can't find one decent CDROM collection of simple graphics

01:26:12 [davb]

that is amazing

01:26:22 [davb]

i know i have seen that stuff before, but it was years ago.

01:26:27 [howling-wolf]

davb: i agree.

01:28:31 [Infraphylax]

so much for sleeping

01:28:38 [Infraphylax]

Going bowling :/

01:28:56 [Infraphylax]

GAH!

01:29:00 [Infraphylax]

47 cent stamps?

01:29:03 [Infraphylax]

err 37

01:29:05 [Infraphylax]

what a ripoff

01:29:17 [Infraphylax]

Damn it...why can't everyone just use e-mail and fedex

01:29:19 [Infraphylax]

morons

01:32:41 [Infraphylax]

that's an outrage

01:33:14 [howling-wolf]

the volume of letters that people send has been declining

01:33:23 [howling-wolf]

and with 9/11 the postal service has had increased expenses, so....

01:36:36 [Infraphylax]

yeah well, to hell with them

01:36:44 [Infraphylax]

Soon it will be more convenient to send FedEx

01:37:08 [howling-wolf]

that's true.. if FedEx can get their rates down a bit lower

01:37:15 [howling-wolf]

and set up a 4-day service..

01:38:42 [Infraphylax]

they have a 4 day service :)

01:38:45 [Infraphylax]

Express saver

01:38:54 [Infraphylax]

3 to 4 business days

01:39:03 [howling-wolf]

how much $$?

01:39:09 [Infraphylax]

Sometimes it gets sent in 1 day though like my package to Roberto

01:39:16 [Infraphylax]

Depends where and what you ship

01:39:23 [howling-wolf]

like, a letter

01:39:29 [howling-wolf]

from ny to california

01:40:06 [Infraphylax]

www.fedex.com/rates

01:40:07 [Infraphylax]

?

01:42:32 [jim]

I get to right before I run the script to make oracle's initial database... and it keeps claiming the database isn't open

01:42:55 [jim]

* jim gonna run one script at a time

01:43:59 [jim]

ok, the first one produced errors...

01:47:44 [jim]

SVRMGR> SVRMGR> Connected.

01:47:44 [jim]

SVRMGR> ORA-01081: cannot start already-running ORACLE - shut it down first

01:48:05 [jim]

CREATE DATABASE "ora8"

01:48:06 [jim]

*

01:48:06 [jim]

ORA-01501: CREATE DATABASE failed

01:48:06 [jim]

ORA-00600: internal error code, arguments: [1403], [], [], [], [], [], [], []

01:48:34 [jim]

* jim tries rebooting the machine

01:51:41 [jim]

I think that worked :)

01:51:56 [jim]

not getting the above errors any longer...

01:52:22 [jim]

so: some state is getting stuck between install of oracle and install of its database

01:52:43 [davb]

jim: do you do the database create right from the oracle installer?

01:53:55 [jim]

nope

01:54:02 [jim]

I have it create a script

01:54:27 [jim]

like (context: acs) always :)

01:54:47 [davb]

ok

01:54:58 [davb]

weird, that always worked for me.

01:55:03 [jim]

same here

01:55:22 [davb]

even for 8.1.7, i have reinstalled it like 4 times :)

01:55:56 [jim]

well, I've only done 8.1.7 twice, and a year or so ago... and -weirdly- too.

01:56:13 [jim]

but this one is as normal as possible

01:56:38 [jim]

so, the two special things for woody are...

01:57:13 [jim]

1) it will ask you to run root.sh... just before doing so, install the glibc-stubs

01:57:26 [jim]

then edit and run root.sh

01:57:39 [davb]

really? i do that after the whole install is done. before i run the database script.

01:57:48 [davb]

intersting.

01:57:54 [jim]

2) reboot just before running the database script

01:58:10 [jim]

well, that seems to be what it boils down to...

01:58:18 [davb]

did you get the listener to configure?

01:58:24 [jim]

yes, no problem there

01:58:39 [davb]

ok.

01:59:00 [davb]

i am using sid, so it might be a little different, but I can never get the listener to work.

01:59:19 [jim]

hmm, should I have created that dir for intermedia before ru8nning the db create script?

01:59:26 [talli]

talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)

01:59:34 [davb]

not sure. that is the first i heard of that tip.

02:00:05 [jim]

well, I'm just going to make sure the listener is up before installing oacs

02:00:32 [davb]

it might actually be the intermedia directory that is causing the intermedia errors.

02:00:41 [jim]

if that works, cool enuf... if not, I'll just blow away the user/tablespace and try again

02:00:55 [davb]

right.

02:01:17 [jim]

note here also... not sure if I told you I'm running 8.1.7.0.0, not .0.1

02:01:35 [davb]

i am not sure what I have, whatvere i downloaded way back when it first came out.

02:01:46 [jim]

I think I will download .0.1 soon or now

02:01:52 [davb]

:)

02:02:34 [jim]

then I can have the same problems as everyone else :)

02:02:39 [davb]

ah

02:05:06 [jim]

what was weird here, was some things thought "oracle is already up... that's an error!" while others thought, "can't reach oracle, it's down, that's an error!"

02:05:29 [davb]

obviously you oracle install is run by a committee

02:05:46 [jim]

roses are red...

02:05:54 [jim]

violets are blue...

02:06:19 [jim]

I have multiple personalities, each installing a different part of oracle...

02:06:23 [jim]

and so do I!

02:07:02 [davb]

jun_: get all the good ideas from CCM

02:08:00 [jun_]

one thing that is good in CCM is bebop

02:08:13 [davb]

i had not heard that before.

02:08:18 [jun_]

i have talked to a aD developer about an idea that i had

02:08:46 [jun_]

basically make all packages out html on their adps

02:09:01 [jun_]

example file storage will put out xml rather than html

02:09:08 [jun_]

which is easy to do just edit all adp

02:09:32 [jun_]

the the subsite template will convert the <slave> xml into html or whatever ml

02:09:45 [davb]

interesting idea.

02:09:56 [jun_]

this is easy to do but needs all packages adp on all packages edited

02:10:07 [jun_]

of course this will have some performance issue

02:10:20 [jun_]

what we can do is just use html as our xml

02:10:20 [davb]

what will you use to convert from xml to html? xslt?

02:10:36 [jun_]

xslt or good old tcl

02:10:52 [jun_]

i don't care if its xlst or any good old code

02:11:03 [davb]

it would hake it easier to template per subsite.

02:11:09 [jun_]

yup

02:11:22 [jun_]

that means subsite1's file storage is very different from subsite2

02:11:38 [jun_]

if you don't do the transform in the subsite template level

02:12:05 [jun_]

then each package must have if subsite = subsite 1 { write this..} else {....}

02:12:16 [jun_]

wouldn't that be great!

02:12:19 [davb]

that is just crazy

02:12:31 [jun_]

we are suddenly on par with bebop?

02:12:33 [davb]

but you can do some amazing stuff with CSS

02:12:43 [jun_]

all we need is just all package maintainers to edit their adp

02:12:47 [jun_]

nope

02:12:54 [jun_]

i have extensively used CSS

02:12:59 [jun_]

it can only do so much

02:13:04 [davb]

true.

02:13:12 [jun_]

CSS can't say change news

02:13:32 [jun_]

for example I wan't subsite1 to have its news with this nice icon

02:13:43 [jun_]

and subsite2 is just have plain text

02:13:49 [jun_]

you can't do that in CSS

02:13:58 [jun_]

but with good old backend power you can

02:14:08 [jun_]

its just a matter of agreeing how to do it

02:14:16 [davb]

interesting.

02:14:37 [jim]

ok, while the oracle tarball downloads and whil;e the oracle db script runs, I'm gonna clean my oven and watch teevee :)

02:14:42 [jun_]

i am not putting all my ideas out on the bboard because it migh generate so much traffic

02:14:52 [davb]

good idea.

02:15:00 [jun_]

i am installing oracle too

02:15:10 [jun_]

i hope mine goes well like the last time i did it.

02:15:25 [davb]

i think you really need to evaluate the solution more, xsl vs. tcl evaluation etc...

02:15:58 [davb]

does anyone know why each package has its own foo-read foo-write foo-admin privileges?

02:16:06 [davb]

what is the point of having default ones then?

02:16:31 [davb]

is there any disadvantage to just using the built in ones?

02:16:32 [talli]

talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs

02:16:39 [howling-wolf]

everyone hide

02:17:01 [talli]

don't worry, my pants are on

02:17:03 [talli]

for now

02:17:07 [jun_]

well some package are just too permission happy

02:17:17 [jun_]

some are justifiable

02:17:26 [jun_]

example of permission happy package is news

02:17:34 [davb]

if you just have copies of read, write, admin, i don't see the point.

02:17:35 [jun_]

why have news_read, news_blah

02:17:43 [jun_]

where in its the same

02:17:51 [jun_]

but bboard makes good use of custom permission

02:18:00 [jun_]

like create_category, create_message

02:18:08 [jun_]

since not all user will have both privs

02:18:18 [davb]

I am wonderign because etp has its own copies of red, write, admin

02:18:19 [jun_]

i believe donb is aware of this

02:18:28 [davb]

yes.

02:18:40 [jun_]

i believe ETP does not have its own

02:18:48 [davb]

hmmm.

02:18:51 [jun_]

but it may have in ETP2 but nothing I can think of right now

02:19:05 [davb]

ok, maybe not

02:20:10 [davb]

i am confusing myself. anyway, for example, i am trying to recreate the classic news package in ETP2. I need to be able to let registeres users submit news items.

02:20:41 [davb]

or ratherm i want the admin to be able to allow registered users to suggest news items, but not approve them etc...

02:20:43 [jun_]

so now i guess you may need a custom permission

02:20:50 [davb]

ok :)

02:21:10 [jun_]

or just make anybody that can read is allowed to submit

02:21:40 [davb]

well, you can set the create permission perhaps to registered users, but not edit or admin.

02:21:41 [jun_]

or like if { read && submit_p } { submit feature is on }

02:21:58 [jun_]

so atleast you can set submit_p in the package params

02:22:13 [davb]

maybe.

02:22:16 [jun_]

since you may want other etp instance not to allow submissions

02:22:24 [davb]

right.

02:22:38 [davb]

it will have to be per package instance.

02:22:52 [davb]

right now etp allows you to set the permissions per package instance.

02:23:20 [davb]

so I figure, just as a suggest-item page to the user-visible pages, and check the permission there.

02:23:29 [rbm]

paje: seen Infraphylax

02:23:29 [paje]

Infraphylax was last seen on #openacs 43 minutes and 21 seconds ago, saying: ? [Wed Jun 19 20:40:11 2002]

02:23:40 [davb]

that way the regular users don't access the www/admin pages

02:24:03 [jun_]

yup yup

02:24:19 [davb]

cool, thanks for listening :)

02:24:51 [rbm]

davb: getting our megalist ready? :)

02:25:04 [davb]

rbm: uh, not yet.....

02:25:19 [davb]

i was working on finishing up etp 2.0

02:25:29 [rbm]

go go gadget davb!

02:25:34 [davb]

heh

02:25:39 [talli]

hey rbm

02:25:47 [rbm]

hey there

02:26:56 [davb]

rbm: can you setup a small openacs 4.5 instance and install just bugtracker so we can track the changes the need to be done to the openacs.org 4.5 code? or should be run it inside itself?

02:27:29 [davb]

I think we need to try to merge the 4.5 release code with the openacs.org code over at museatech.

02:28:49 [rbm]

davb: I can setup an instance, sure.

02:29:11 [talli]

an instance would be great

02:29:15 [talli]

also an instance for the docs

02:29:37 [talli]

pat and i have suggestions for the docs

02:29:48 [davb]

oh good idea.

02:29:50 [talli]

rather, he might have stuff that are better for comments

02:30:00 [talli]

but i would like to make some suggestions to make things clearer

02:31:33 [davb]

ok, if there are no other items to discuss tonight, I am going to bed. I will be available intermittently tomorrow, but i'll be checking in.

02:33:19 [rbm]

talli: what do you mean by an instance for the docs?

02:33:28 [talli]

a bugtracker instance

02:37:20 [davb]

bye

02:37:21 [davb]

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02:37:37 [rbm]

talli: oh, okay

03:03:58 [jun_]

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05:30:14 [howling-wolf]

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06:54:13 [norelent]

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06:56:22 [norelent]

I was wondering if anyone has had success using directory in 4.5. I just get db errors on a fresh install

06:56:34 [norelent]

and I don't find anything (easily) on bboards about it

07:03:00 [norelent]

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07:54:29 [jim]

tst

07:54:49 [jim]

tst agn (sorry...)

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09:50:35 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. If you haven't had a chance, please take a look at http://somegeek.org/status.html (updated June 19). The site may be overloaded at first but please give it a try. Thanks.

11:42:55 [davb]

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11:43:00 [davb]

hello

12:17:06 [davb]

heh, check this out: "As the number of different privileges in the system is expected to be reasonably small, there is no pressing need to cache the flattened ansector-descendant view of the privilege hierarchy in a specially maintained table like it is done in the case of the context hierarchy."

12:17:21 [davb]

quote from acs permissions tediously explained. looks like someone forgot to tell the package developers.

12:22:53 [davb]

ok, here is a question. I want to grant create priviliege to registered users, so they can suggest news items for my etp based news package.

12:23:26 [davb]

should i create a new "approve" permission, or make that activity an admin only function, so only those with admin over the etp/news package can approve?

12:29:55 [Infraphylax]

arg

12:29:59 [Infraphylax]

blorg!

12:30:01 [Infraphylax]

OOOOOORGLE!

12:30:25 [Infraphylax]

Amount I owe...230$ on credit card :'(

12:30:33 [Infraphylax]

then an 85$ ticket

12:30:40 [Infraphylax]

that's about 300$

12:30:46 [Infraphylax]

hrmmm

12:30:48 [Infraphylax]

brb

12:31:54 [davb]

the trick is to make etp 2.0 flexible, but not over engineered like cms

12:33:27 [davb]

ah, comparing CMS it creates 10 new privileges. which makes sense. it was designed to control an entire site.

12:33:31 [davb]

hmmmm.

12:33:51 [Infraphylax]

Morning dave

12:33:56 [davb]

hi Infraphylax

12:34:42 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax flexes his spectral abilities

12:34:43 [Infraphylax]

woo

12:34:48 [Infraphylax]

Should I do direct deposit?

12:35:18 [davb]

yes!

12:35:24 [Infraphylax]

Why?

12:35:24 [Infraphylax]

:)

12:35:33 [davb]

because you don't have to stop at the bank.

12:35:56 [davb]

but it is handy to have a debit card, so you can get the money back out without stopping at an atm.

12:35:56 [Infraphylax]

yeah I do

12:35:57 [Infraphylax]

lol

12:36:06 [Infraphylax]

I'll have to go get my money OUT of the bank anyway

12:36:28 [davb]

that is what the debit card is for.

12:37:21 [davb]

should i got to this tonight? Seminar Topic: Value of Integrating Open Source Solutions-referencing excerpts from Blue Slate's recent presentation at Java One 2002

12:37:21 [Infraphylax]

yeah but that's how you overdraw from your checking account and get slapped with 60$ fees

12:37:44 [Infraphylax]

I could follow that sentence up to the Source part and then my brain went blank

12:39:04 [davb]

i have a mental picture of how much $$$ i have in my account.

12:44:22 [Infraphylax]

yeah so do I

12:44:30 [Infraphylax]

but I also like going real close to the bottom

12:48:43 [davb]

:)

13:13:23 [davb]

i just had another idea.

13:19:43 [talli]

hey guys

13:20:30 [cro]

cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs

13:31:07 [davb]

hi talli and cro

13:31:14 [talli]

hey davb

13:32:52 [davb]

talli: should we setp a bugtacker for etp 2.0?

13:32:58 [davb]

or just use email?

13:33:03 [talli]

bugtracker!

13:33:07 [davb]

heh

13:33:17 [davb]

ok, ok

13:33:39 [talli]

we should make it as public as possible

13:33:46 [davb]

sure.

13:33:59 [davb]

no problem.

13:34:35 [davb]

I wish we could seperate out the packages from the openacs-core over at openacs.org. then we could use the cvs over that and set releases for packages seperate from openacs.

13:34:49 [davb]

I am sure its coming :)

13:49:07 [talli]

talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)

14:00:34 [davb]

* davb loves create or replace

14:17:38 [talli]

talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs

14:59:15 [Infraphylax]

hmmm

15:04:19 [davb]

i'm hungry

15:33:47 [bduell]

bduell (~bduell@gowron.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs

15:35:02 [Infraphylax]

me too

15:39:13 [rbm]

ooom

15:39:27 [rbm]

paje: seen Infraphylax

15:39:27 [paje]

Infraphylax was last seen on #openacs 4 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: me too [Thu Jun 20 10:35:04 2002]

15:39:32 [rbm]

Nice :)

15:40:00 [rbm]

Besides sounding like there's a vacuum cleaner under my desk, this machine is pretty sweet.

15:41:53 [Infraphylax]

?

15:42:04 [Infraphylax]

What are the temperatures?

15:43:01 [Infraphylax]

bbl lunch

15:45:30 [rbm]

I'm on Linux and I didn't compile the modules that would allow me to look at the temperatures

15:45:37 [rbm]

I should compile a new kernel now

15:46:02 [Infraphylax]

oh

15:46:10 [Infraphylax]

What were the temps?

15:50:50 [rbm]

can't remember

15:53:14 [rbm]

Does anywhere on the AMD site mention the average normal temperature for an XP 1500?

16:04:48 [rbm]

* rbm goes out

16:13:38 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has quit (Remote closed the connection)

16:16:18 [davb]

hmm

16:16:22 [davb]

my openacs is broken.

16:16:24 [davb]

darn

16:34:57 [Infraphylax]

paje, fix dave's broken acl

16:34:57 [paje]

Infraphylax: sorry...

16:36:23 [Infraphylax]

woot...my credit card is paid off

16:49:25 [abbaJ]

abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-64-123-14-133.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

17:02:32 [jim]

* jim got the err that might be the "missing-dir" problem...

17:03:02 [jim]

maybe I'll reinstall oracle in a few days...

17:03:46 [jim]

so I'd create the dir ctx/bin before hitting "install"

17:05:28 [Infraphylax]

hey

17:05:36 [Infraphylax]

paje, seeN rbm

17:05:36 [paje]

rbm was last seen on #openacs 1 hours, 48 seconds ago, saying: goes out [Thu Jun 20 11:04:50 2002]

17:05:59 [jim]

rephylax

17:13:13 [Infraphylax]

re

17:39:31 [Infraphylax]

any of you use uBid.com?

17:41:16 [jim]

notme

17:42:25 [Infraphylax]

:)

17:44:45 [davb]

wow. i spent over an hour fooling around with a bad openacs install.

17:44:55 [davb]

oops :)

17:46:16 [Infraphylax]

lamer :P

17:46:21 [Infraphylax]

dave, you use uBid?

18:18:17 [talilee]

talilee (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

18:23:02 [talilee]

hey guys

18:23:05 [talilee]

anybody home?

18:23:47 [rbm]

oom

18:30:28 [davb]

hi

18:30:36 [davb]

Infraphylax: nope

18:31:16 [davb]

ola is having the same oracle listener problem as me.

18:31:58 [davb]

cool!

18:32:06 [Infraphylax]

mew

18:32:12 [davb]

oops,

18:32:16 [rbm]

talilee: bring it on

18:32:18 [davb]

i deleted all my new templates

18:33:03 [davb]

argharghargh

18:33:11 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax thwaps davb

18:37:37 [Infraphylax]

hdtv is cool

18:37:46 [Infraphylax]

Roberto :)

18:37:54 [Infraphylax]

When are you getting a new video card?

18:38:16 [Infraphylax]

if you willing to wait, I can give you my geforce2 mx 200 sometime

18:38:28 [Infraphylax]

I'm interested in getting an ATI All-In-Wonder

18:40:35 [rbm]

Infraphylax: It would take me a few months to save up some money to buy a new video card, so I'm waiting :-)

18:41:04 [Infraphylax]

Would you want a GeForce2 MX 200?

18:41:16 [Infraphylax]

I don't know how graphic intensive stuff you want to run

18:47:12 [rbm]

Infraphylax: Sure. It's probably better than my ATI Rage 128

18:49:10 [Infraphylax]

i dunno about that

18:49:55 [Infraphylax]

sometime go to the nVidia site and see how much better the geforce2 is using their analyzer

18:50:09 [Infraphylax]

It's pretty accurabe but subtract like 5% from the answer

18:58:23 [Infraphylax]

why o why do I have such a sweet tooth

18:58:28 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax inhales a snickers bar

19:34:17 [davb]

davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")

19:51:36 [Infraphylax]

Infraphylax has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

19:53:16 [talilee]

talilee has quit ("Client Exiting")

20:07:41 [rbm]

Can I send a process to the background without stopping it?

20:08:06 [cro]

Not without stopping it temporarily

20:08:22 [cro]

Foreground process right now?

20:09:08 [rbm]

yeah

20:09:30 [cro]

From zsh I usually just hit ^Z, then "%1 &"

20:09:47 [rbm]

but ^Z stops the process

20:10:05 [rbm]

what's the "%1 &"?

20:11:42 [cro]

Bring the first stopped process back to the foreground and put it in the background.

20:12:37 [cro]

pts/3 quark[23]% rxvt ~/wd/ncacasi

20:12:37 [cro]

20:12:37 [cro]

zsh: 17343 suspended rxvt

20:12:37 [cro]

pts/3 quark[24]% %1 & ~/wd/ncacasi

20:12:37 [cro]

[1] + continued rxvt

20:12:52 [cro]

hows' that?

20:15:31 [rbm]

I wonder if that works in bash

20:18:00 [rbm]

I found out how... just ^Z, the do "bg" which will send the most recently stopped job to the background

20:23:39 [cro]

ah, yes. I always just used the %x syntax...

20:49:18 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625161-163.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs

20:49:38 [denshi]

moo

20:49:44 [rbm]

oom

20:49:47 [denshi]

paje?

20:49:48 [paje]

yes, denshi?

20:50:02 [denshi]

anyone know anything about organized crime?

20:50:11 [rbm]

it's illegal

20:50:33 [denshi]

I mean being on the recieving end

20:51:20 [rbm]

probably illegal too :)

20:53:42 [denshi]

and yet, you just don't get cops' attention fast enough for that

20:54:24 [rbm]

* rbm shurgs

21:02:32 [rbm]

s/shurgs/shrugs/

21:06:06 [talli]

talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

21:07:32 [denshi]

to flesh out my question, I should relay that last night I recieved a collection of threats from the previous tenants of my condo, who are apparently involved in some criminal enterprise

21:07:51 [rbm]

that's no fun

21:08:05 [denshi]

no

21:08:08 [rbm]

what do they want?

21:08:25 [rbm]

Are they Java users?

21:08:33 [denshi]

hahaha

21:08:37 [denshi]

I wish

21:08:52 [cro]

You better call the cops

21:09:15 [rbm]

Since they are involved in an "enteprise" they must be Java users, who have monopolized, overloaded and overused the word(-:

21:09:16 [denshi]

they claim to have left a large sum of valuables, which we have not seen. thus, they inferred that we are thieves

21:09:28 [denshi]

rbm, you're just too damn funny sometimes

21:09:50 [denshi]

cro: my flatmate and I visited the cops this morning and dug up their records

21:09:57 [cro]

ah

21:10:03 [rbm]

denshi: Sorry, I shouldn't be joking when something serious like this is at stake

21:10:03 [denshi]

they seem like small time felons with poor discipline

21:10:47 [denshi]

rbm: only a day ago, the hardest thing in my life was missing a deadline

21:11:37 [rbm]

denshi: :(

21:11:37 [denshi]

I think I can deal with this, just the disenchantment is the hard thing

21:11:58 [denshi]

it occurs to me: why isn't the law pro-active?

21:12:18 [cro]

denshi: That would be the "Patriot Act".

21:12:34 [denshi]

interesting

21:13:26 [cro]

So all you need to do is figure out how to make someone think they are terrorists, and they will disappear from the face of the earth. Due process? What's that?

21:13:33 [denshi]

heh

21:14:40 [denshi]

you know, I could deal with a law enforcement system that had heavy surveillance powers, if they were using them to rapidly shutting down small-time thugs with no political motivations beyond greed

21:15:09 [cro]

That would be Singapore.

21:15:14 [denshi]

but it seems that those kinds of toys always fall into the hands of people who want to spend a decade following around liberals to destroy their lives

21:15:24 [cro]

Boy it was creepy visiting there.

21:15:37 [rbm]

denshi: couldn't agree more

21:15:40 [cro]

And I guess it's getting that way in the UK

21:15:53 [denshi]

William Gibson called Singapore "Disneyland with the death penalty"

21:16:09 [cro]

yeah, that would make sense. Caning too.

21:16:22 [cro]

And Disneyland doesn't fine you for littering. :-)

21:16:24 [denshi]

they don't have caning at Disneyland?

21:17:22 [rbm]

what happens in Singapore?

21:17:24 [cro]

I've never been caned there. Had a fellow chessplayer thrown out though for jumping between boats

21:17:30 [rbm]

commit a crime and die?

21:17:49 [cro]

No, peddle porn and die.

21:17:53 [cro]

Seriously

21:17:57 [rbm]

peddle?

21:18:03 [cro]

Sell

21:18:25 [cro]

Censorship is rampant there.

21:18:29 [rbm]

I see (dict is my friend :)

21:18:57 [cro]

My brother in law used to work there,...ummm...what was it...

21:19:41 [cro]

They went to see, not True Lies, another Stallone movie, the one where he is frozen and wakes up in the future and they had cryogenically frozen all the criminals. Sandra Bullock was in it with him.

21:19:58 [cro]

Anyway, the gov't had all the references to Taco Bell replaced.

21:20:14 [rbm]

Not True Lies... it's hmmmm

21:20:17 [rbm]

can't remember

21:20:29 [cro]

The studio apparently had a big product placement deal with Taco Bell and the references were everywhere.

21:20:35 [cro]

They replaced them all with Pizza Hut

21:20:53 [cro]

Singapore doesn't have Taco Bell, they thought the populace wouldn't understand it.

21:21:00 [cro]

But they do have Pizza Hut.

21:21:04 [cro]

Go figure.

21:22:06 [bduell]

cro: Demolition Man

21:22:11 [cro]

Yes, that was it I thinl

21:22:14 [cro]

think

21:26:00 [cro]

cro has quit ("See y'all tomorrow")

21:35:05 [jim]

Not True Lies... tautology?

21:45:33 [sash]

sash (~MIA@213-48-145-16.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs

21:46:27 [sash]

jim: Are versions of the missing aDuni lectures taught at MIT?

21:53:01 [jim]

sash: dunno... I haven't investigated that... which lectures? the math course?

21:53:23 [jim]

if it is the math course, I would guess that would be taught at MIT :)

21:53:34 [sash]

Yesterday, you referred to some missing material.

21:55:21 [jim]

so far, the missing material that I know about is (1) the lectures from the very first course, advanced math for CS, omitted due to audio problems... and (2) a problem set from SICP, either #4 or #5

21:55:48 [jim]

* jim is reminded to email Holly Yanco

21:56:34 [sash]

Can you get alternative lectures?

21:57:28 [jim]

hmmmm... her phone # is on the site...

21:58:23 [sash]

Ah, that's A-level Maths in the UK.

21:59:02 [sash]

Good textbook: Engineering Mathematics by Kenneth Stroud.

21:59:45 [jim]

I got all my eng math out of the way... aced it all (at cc level, anyway)

22:01:04 [jim]

Do you have the hd?

22:01:43 [jim]

btw, I succeeded in installing oracle yesterday... thank you for offering up all the tips, many were helpful

22:01:54 [sash]

The main sticking point is findind a cheap way to transfer the money.

22:02:09 [jim]

hmmm

22:02:32 [jim]

can you have a drive shipped to them?

22:04:38 [sash]

I'm checking my correspondence w/ Chris Crick. Is interMedia running?

22:05:33 [jim]

probably not

22:06:06 [jim]

which probably means I have to reinstall again, this time creating the ctx/bin dir

22:08:50 [jim]

hmm, no, that dir does exist

22:09:32 [sash]

I don't see why Chris Crick wouldn't burn the info onto the shipped HDD.

22:09:33 [rbm]

how do you run perl interactively?

22:10:01 [jim]

perl

22:10:11 [sash]

There would be a charge to help pay for bandwidth usage on the site.

22:10:24 [jim]

or perl -e 'perl; statements; go; here;'

22:10:58 [jim]

you mean the problem set?

22:11:15 [jim]

it's just missing... the others are there

22:12:43 [jim]

it has most of the lectures and most of the other material... plus, you can get any of it from the web site (of course, streaming the videos has its problems, but they are there)

22:12:45 [sash]

jim: Well, in addition to the video lectures.

22:13:19 [jim]

ok, let's get specific...

22:13:28 [sash]

jim: I think aDuni may be short of cash and are looking to pay for site costs.

22:14:17 [jim]

there are lectures for most of the courses (this would be the main reason for getting the drive; the remaining material is not problematic bandwidth-wise)

22:14:18 [sash]

jim: The general bandwidth usage, not necessarily your own.

22:14:44 [jim]

yes, I get that :) they pay about $200/month for bw

22:15:35 [jim]

also... there are handouts, problem sets, answers to problem sets, student solutions, code...

22:16:02 [sash]

Now, I got that :)

22:16:10 [jim]

I think php has to be running to make the HD really work...

22:16:14 [sash]

http://aduni.org/drives/ :)

22:16:14 [oacs-chump]

D: http://aduni.org/drives/ from sash

22:16:47 [jim]

but the files are there; they're not hard to browse... named by the date recorded

22:17:21 [jim]

I should send them something to help

22:17:46 [jim]

(but so should OpenForce :P :)

22:18:26 [sash]

I wanted to distribute the courses around the UK.

22:18:43 [jim]

that would certainly help...

22:19:05 [sash]

My Physics w/ Computing degree was not of MIT calibre.

22:19:45 [sash]

Perhaps set up a course when I/others have the relevant knowledge.

22:19:47 [jim]

btw, there are also videos that are not lectures... they had guests come and talk for an hour or so... Stallman had like two 1.25 hour video files

22:20:09 [jim]

you can still help

22:20:11 [sash]

I missed RMS' lectures at my uni last year.

22:20:24 [sash]

I'm strapped for cash.

22:20:35 [jim]

I get the feeling that he says the same thing every time he speaks

22:22:32 [jim]

not that it's unimportant a thing to say, but having read the original stuff at gnu.org, prep.ai.mit.edu, fsf.org since about 1988 or so, I pretty much know what he's about and would wish for him to occasionally change the subject...

22:23:28 [sash]

Well he is talking about freedom, patents, copyrights, the commons ...

22:23:49 [jim]

and has been the whole time :)

22:24:21 [jim]

and I do agree with most points, and do find it important... but non-newsworthy, or whatever

22:24:38 [sash]

My question to him would be how much coding he gets done on top of his evangelism.

22:25:18 [sash]

Well, Freedom is an important topic.

22:25:46 [jim]

I'd be curious about that too, but seems to me the offerings of source packages havent' changed much...

22:26:35 [jim]

so my guess is the ratio is something like 35%-65% in favor of talking

22:27:02 [sash]

I've spoken to acquaintances who are not impressed by his personal manner, which must get in the way of the message.

22:27:11 [jim]

maybe less, even as small as 10%

22:28:09 [jim]

* jim needs to get out more too tho :)

22:28:34 [sash]

There are lots of people who need to be Freed. I think he views his major contribution as helping do that, rather than coding.

22:28:58 [sash]

RMS gets out very often.

22:29:40 [jim]

I think I hold the same view, but I'm guessing.

22:30:42 [jim]

the GPL is probably the single most important license in open source and free software communities combined...

22:30:43 [sash]

Have you read "Free as In Freedom"? It's available at http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/

22:31:07 [jim]

no, but checking the url now

22:31:24 [sash]

It's around 200 pages.

22:32:01 [sash]

St. Ignucius lol

22:32:23 [rbm]

I asked RMS about his coding when he came here.

22:33:17 [sash]

What was his response?

22:34:20 [rbm]

"When people start listening to my message and there are enough people that believe in it, then I'll go back to coding"

22:34:20 [sash]

England vs. Brazil in 7hrs.

22:34:24 [rbm]

YEAH!

22:34:29 [rbm]

* rbm is trembling

22:34:36 [rbm]

I'm afraid Brazil won't make it.

22:34:53 [sash]

I think England have a good chance.

22:35:12 [rbm]

But since this is the cup of the upsets, then Brazil might win :)

22:35:16 [rbm]

http://macan.debian.net/vb.jpg

22:35:16 [oacs-chump]

E: http://macan.debian.net/vb.jpg from rbm

22:35:41 [rbm]

E:| Translation: "The beauty at your reach. Hair cut, Perm, Reflex, Diying, <something>, Hidrating" :-)

22:35:42 [oacs-chump]

titled item E

22:35:46 [sash]

The news was full of Michael Owen, injured striker, getting his groin massaged for around twelve hours. Madness

22:36:09 [rbm]

Sombody should kick his nuts to make sure he won't play :)

22:36:56 [rbm]

Okay, this perl foo is working. Guess I'll go home now

22:37:00 [sash]

The Italians seem to be very poor losers. Sacking the S.Korean striker who scored the winning goal against them, withholding his pay, suing the FA for lost revenue in TV coverage.

22:37:01 [rbm]

bbiab

22:37:15 [rbm]

sash: Ugh. That's bad.

22:42:15 [sash]

sash has quit ("Goodnight.")

23:08:06 [bduell]

bduell has left #openacs

23:21:34 [jim]

ok...

23:22:32 [jim]

I'm thinking of factoring an app I did at the beginning of the year into a servicepkg/apppkg pair

23:24:00 [jim]

the thing is, the service pkg has factored generic pages that are used by the app (and can be used by other apps).

23:24:35 [jim]

Do I need to mount the service pkg? how can I get its url?

23:31:58 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

23:32:25 [davb]

hi there

23:32:36 [jim]

hiya...

23:33:15 [jim]

I had a question I -just- posted... I'll repost:

23:33:33 [jim]

I'm thinking of factoring an app I did at the beginning of the year into a servicepkg/apppkg pair

23:33:40 [jim]

the thing is, the service pkg has factored generic pages that are used by the app (and can be used by other apps).

23:33:48 [jim]

Do I need to mount the service pkg? how can I get its url?

23:40:45 [davb]

jim: if you want to access pages, you mount it.

23:41:01 [davb]

there is really no difference between service and application.

23:41:21 [davb]

other services have pages, i.e. general-comments

23:48:39 [jim]

ok... say I define a service as a singleton... do I make an instance to mount?

23:49:19 [jim]

or do/can I mount the package itself (not any instance)?

23:49:26 [davb]

hmmm.

23:49:32 [davb]

i am not sure.

23:49:56 [davb]

i think if it shows up on the unmounted applications list, you can just mount it.

23:50:21 [jim]

ok... assume I make an instance and mount it... easy to find where it's mounted?

23:50:29 [davb]

easy?

23:50:36 [davb]

:)

23:50:42 [jim]

simple tcl call?

23:50:43 [davb]

that is very tricky.

23:51:00 [davb]

because a package can be mounted more than once.

23:51:10 [davb]

let me look.

23:54:34 [davb]

http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00039J&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS

23:54:34 [oacs-chump]

A: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00039J&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS from davb

23:57:06 [jim]

thanks!

23:57:11 [davb]

np.

23:59:16 [rbm]

davb: I'm setting up oacs 4 on openacs.org. We want the devel branch right? Not the stable one.

23:59:59 [davb]

hmmm.