00:32:33 paje? 00:32:34 Infraphylax? 00:32:37 You love me, don't you? 00:39:39 markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-030-081.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 00:46:49 hey markiesaurus 00:46:51 anyone know where on the aduni vids they talk about the set theory precursor material to sql? 00:46:54 greeble 00:48:04 gorble..time for me to get my sleep 00:48:06 I lack 00:48:19 therefore you is 00:50:52 wow, jim's here 00:51:11 * rbm compiles o new kernel 00:51:24 heya rbm... 00:51:51 yeah, just got finished dealing with provider changes 00:53:30 hey guys 00:53:41 jim: cool 00:53:52 rbm: we have an openacs booth at linux world in SF in august 00:53:54 the great talli! 00:54:00 talli: WHAT!??!?!?!?! 00:54:09 talli: I *HAVE* to be there then :) 00:54:10 i reserved a booth at linuxworld for openacs 00:54:10 really? cool! 00:54:19 talli: That is _awesome_ 00:54:33 they have a dotORG pavilion that is free for open source projects to show off 00:54:40 we have to get the website done by then, btw 00:54:40 openacs will be in small letters, with MOMENTUM on a huge banner 00:54:45 :) 00:54:54 actually, that's something else i need to work on.... 00:55:20 a guy from OEone pinged me saying he might be able to get some funding to work on the project 00:55:41 right now, the only thing hampering momentum is that tehre is no one who wants to be a project manager, or rather can afford to be a project manager now 00:56:20 i chatted with don an janine when i was first going to get a booth at linux world and we agreed there has to be some ground rules 00:56:43 like, companies and consultants that would like to be there can *not* sell or market themselves aroudn the booth 00:57:00 their marketing material can be there, but people are not allowed to sell themselves, just the OACS 00:57:34 we'll have to come up with some more concrete rules, but that is the basic one 00:57:36 talli: We have to get some h0t chixq0rs ala the FreeBSD folks. That's the only reason people visit the FreeBSD booth :) 00:57:48 oh yeah? 00:57:59 i didn't notice that at the NY linux world 00:58:00 you've never seen the FreeBSD devilettes? 00:58:04 no 00:58:11 hmmm 00:58:15 let me dig out o pic 00:58:16 i am all for h0t chixq0rs 00:58:32 if for no other reason to distract people from donb's gut 00:58:41 talli: Actually, I 'm compiling a new kernel so I can have X, so hang on a bit for the pic 00:58:48 ok 00:59:24 http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcone/bsdversuslinux.html 01:00:16 that is the nerdiest figgin' group of nyluggers in the world 01:00:20 christ almighty 01:00:43 i wonder if linus ever looks around and says, "oh lord, what have i done?" 01:02:14 there is not one person in that linux picture who wasn't tortured as a child in the playground 01:06:57 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:07:02 hi all 01:07:17 hey davb 01:11:37 for those running a unix-alike... I wrote a fairly simple script for printing the source of entire packages... 01:11:48 cool. 01:12:07 we need an openacs cookbook 01:12:51 print-oacs-pkg sends to stdout a plain-text paginated document 01:13:33 every file (almost) in /web//packages/ 01:15:15 so you could do something like print-oacs-pkg | lpr 01:16:20 my printer likes to truncate long lines... 01:16:30 so I wrote this thing 01:17:40 and I printed out the dotlrn package, sc, user-profile, profile-provider 01:18:13 (dotlrn is seven -hundred- pages... sheesh) 01:18:25 oh yeah, i hate that line truncation 01:18:30 wow. 01:18:33 duplex 01:18:48 i use a little program that prints two pages side-by-side, small, but saves paper. 01:18:52 I shoulda bought one 01:19:07 I still will, I think 01:19:27 my eyes can't hang with small anymore 01:19:58 which is why I'm a bit miffed at the dotlrn website... 01:21:10 tiny fonts and -won't- pay attention to my chosen font size 01:22:43 about http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcone/bsdversuslinux.html/// 01:23:23 one year, another booth had girls in grass skirts and wore/gave out leis... 01:24:06 this one girl gave out leis to everyone wearing the bsd horns, cause horny people need leis... 01:24:52 leis? 01:25:11 hawaiian flowered necklaces 01:25:28 it was her pun :) 01:26:11 that is bad 01:26:18 the dotlrn no font thing 01:26:24 jim: which browser? 01:26:33 mozilla 01:27:30 oh, text zoom -> 120% works for me. 01:27:32 ohh, but mozilla has "text zoom" 01:27:38 just found it 01:27:41 :) 01:27:41 :) 01:28:12 there needs to be a minimum font size setting. 01:31:47 yeah, they assume midgets and people with thick glasses will read it unaltered... 01:32:10 but, this is a solution :) 01:32:46 yep, works pretty well. 01:33:18 hmm. no mozilla 1.0 in debian testing yet. 01:33:26 but it's in sid :) 01:33:30 it is? 01:33:37 Yes, I run it 01:33:41 hmmm. i meant that, i thought I was set for unstable. 01:34:02 brb. 01:34:03 weird: 01:34:05 deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free 01:34:05 deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib non-fre\ 01:34:05 e 01:34:20 mine says RC3 01:34:24 maybe i need a mirror. 01:34:45 RC3? what's that? 01:34:51 1.0rc3 01:35:00 ahh, of moz 01:35:05 yes . 01:35:50 Like I said earlier... I printed out the acs-sc package files, and I'm studying the data model 01:36:04 oh great. 01:36:18 I'm trying to understand what a "profile" is 01:36:21 rbm and i am planning on going in and cleaning up the admin pages. 01:36:47 sounds like some cia thing. 01:37:34 well, there's a "dotlrn user profile", other kinds of profiles, and these other things called "profile providers"... 01:38:08 part of a profile is a acs-service-contract that has three operations: 01:38:22 name, prettyName and render 01:39:01 hmmm. i wonder if I should check in the etp 2.0 stuff into the openacs tree 01:39:15 we need a way to track the packages seperate from the rest of openacs. 01:39:18 all take no args and return strings, the last returns an html strings 01:39:29 must be something to display to the browser. 01:39:59 i don't like service-contract generating html. 01:40:16 that does not seperate code and presentation. 01:40:26 I printed new-portal too, looked that over... 01:44:14 how does that look? 01:44:50 i have an idea for etp, a seperate etp related package that manages all the etp instances. so I can add items to any section from one screen, move stuff around etc... 01:47:52 davb: XML-RPC should be a central function of ETP@ 01:47:54 ETP2 01:48:02 talli? 01:48:02 it has been said that talli is a monkey hmpher 01:48:03 that is, being able to publish content via XML-RPC 01:48:23 talli that is for etp 2.5 or 3. i want etp 2 out the door soon. 01:48:26 perhaps that's a CR related faculty 01:48:41 actually that should be a seperate package/service-contracty kind of thing. 01:49:05 critical items for etp 2.0 - fix openfts search so it only indexes live items, that is a general CR fix 01:49:53 - fix admin interface 01:50:05 - categories would be nice 01:50:24 - user submitted content type 01:51:00 so you can have a 'suggest an item' feature 01:51:38 set up a bugtracker instance! 01:51:45 is musea still using etp? 01:51:55 i can set one up on clients.museatech.net 01:52:02 we don't have any project that relies on it right now 01:52:04 talli: i'll check with rbm. i can setup a bugtracker on mine machine too. 01:52:23 ok. i have some neat ideas i am working on, but I want something functional for the openacs.org site. 01:52:41 i think most of the base work is done for etp 2.0 01:53:17 that would be great 01:53:30 if you have a plan of execution, i'm sure that luke might be able to lend a coding hand 01:53:35 but i need to fix search. 01:53:42 he just doesn't have time to spend designing and building 01:53:58 sure. well the plan he originally wrote is still good. 01:54:17 and mostly complete. just needs testing and interface improvements. 01:54:47 oh yeah, i want to add sdm functions to the bugtracker too :) 01:55:03 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 01:55:29 talli: let me see if rbm can setup an openacs 4.5 with bugtracker on openacs.org 01:55:38 very cool 01:58:14 talli has quit (Remote closed the connection) 02:01:18 hmmm. 02:01:27 i need to ask neophytos how to handle this. 02:01:43 oom? 02:02:00 hi rbm 02:02:07 got a minute? 02:02:27 in a little bit, yes 02:02:36 ok, np, no rush. 02:03:02 What's the resolution right after 1024x768? 02:03:16 jun_ (~jun@202.163.222.186) has joined #openacs 02:03:18 1152x864? 02:03:25 1152x somthing :) 02:03:28 hi jun_ 02:03:31 * rbm grumbles 02:03:32 talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 02:03:33 hi dave 02:03:41 hang on its in my xf86config 02:03:44 talli: do you know what's the resolution right after 1024x768? 02:03:48 davb: thanks. 02:03:56 hey jun_ ! 02:03:57 hi talli... well i got here 02:04:04 1152x864 02:04:11 rbm: i think that is's 1152xsomerthing... 02:04:14 and the one after that? 02:04:15 yeah, davb's got it 02:04:19 1280x1024 02:04:24 That's it! Thanks 02:04:26 np 02:04:28 i don't know about this IRC stuff... eversince I started to into the net since 95 i never went to IRC 02:04:37 IRC is nice 02:04:38 davb: jun's here. full ETP2 discussion may commence 02:04:40 irc is super. 02:04:45 great. 02:04:51 I have a super-expedited plan. 02:05:22 ok... i have ears... i also though a lot from stuff based from the production of modetp 02:05:52 i think most of the items on the etp 2.0 planning document are done. workflow integration is deferred. 02:06:09 we need to fix search so it only indexes live content 02:06:21 and finish the UI improvements. 02:06:31 yes deffered but we must structure etp2 to be workflow friendly 02:06:48 brb 02:06:53 so implementation of workflow will not mean a rework of etp2 02:06:56 talli has quit (Remote closed the connection) 02:07:01 jun_ it should be ok the way it is. basically the custom template for each content_type can take care of that, i think. 02:07:21 if I have time I can try an example for a workflow enabled app. 02:07:47 talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 02:08:26 or atleast all of use must get to know workflow so atleast its on the back of heads when implementing etp2 02:09:09 asside from the etp2 doc do you have other ideas? 02:09:36 I think that is enough. I have alot of ideas. I want a way to associate photos and other content with etp items. 02:09:48 also I want to enable user-submitted content. 02:10:12 and last I am thinking of an etp master control panel type of application that allows you to admin all the etp instances from one place. 02:12:04 the flexible part of the design is, the admin template will list all the content items in a section. from there we can link to workflow pages, or any other custom admin pages we need for a content type. 02:12:46 also, optional rss syndication for etp content would be nice. 02:12:49 :) 02:12:52 i have alot of ideas. 02:12:52 i see pretty much the same idea i have. Have you tried other CMS interfaces? 02:13:07 are you familiar with jahia? 02:13:09 i tried the original cms. 02:13:14 no. 02:13:34 jahia is a semi OSS ACS like platform 02:13:50 interesting. 02:13:53 but since its commercial where its a bit more polished 02:13:57 they have a nice site :) 02:14:05 you have a fast connection? 02:14:10 try jahia.org 02:14:15 there is a demo link 02:14:22 yes. trying it now. 02:14:55 try to create some additional sections, portlets, content 02:16:24 looks cool. could be built on openacs, but i see it work as dot-lrn type of application on top of openacs. 02:16:51 yes something like that 02:17:02 oacs has a lot of this 02:17:11 but jahia has it packaged 02:17:29 jahia's cms does a inline type of editing 02:17:42 there "edit mode" brings up links 02:17:42 jim has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:18:05 hmm, i can't find the edit link. does it work in mozilla? 02:18:51 yes it works in mozilla 02:18:57 you need to login as siteadmin 02:19:03 i thought i did :) 02:19:07 then on top of the site there is an "edit mode" 02:19:21 after that small icons will appear 02:19:23 like 02:19:38 "[X] [+] [*]"... etc. 02:20:05 wow, it is small 02:20:07 where you able to get into edit mode? 02:20:40 yes. 02:20:46 very similar to dotlrn. 02:21:04 etp plus the new-portal system and something to manage multimedia will be very similar. 02:22:11 pretty neat. 02:22:28 talli: have you seen this? 02:22:33 yup similar to dotlrn 02:22:39 now check this one out 02:22:45 http://www.cofax.org/site/real.jsp 02:22:45 A: http://www.cofax.org/site/real.jsp from jun_ 02:22:57 http://www.jahia.org 02:22:57 B: http://www.jahia.org from davb 02:23:13 cofax does it differently 02:23:23 check out the screenshots below 02:23:26 the page 02:24:30 cool, very similar to what I am thinking about. 02:24:46 uhoh, now I am having too many ideas :) 02:25:24 wow, newspapers are using mysql? 02:25:33 so the 2 doing CMS on different admin interface 02:25:56 right. 02:26:01 hmmm. 02:26:19 * davb is thinking about etp as a service that has a seperate UI pacakge 02:26:23 or something like that. 02:26:47 i like the idea of a cms that uses several small packages working together. 02:27:05 instead of a huge monster like cms 02:27:19 jun_ have you looked at the form builder stuff in openacs? 02:27:33 not really 02:27:42 but rob made a formbuilder 02:27:52 its basically looks at the data model 02:28:01 don is adding some stuff to make it easier to use. 02:28:06 a new proc ad_form 02:28:11 then tries to creat edit/add/delete/search 02:28:34 its really cool that is can edit most openacs tables 02:28:37 this is differnt, but makes it easier to build dynamic forms based on content types. 02:28:44 it even supports foreign keys 02:28:51 i see 02:28:53 that is pretty handy. 02:29:01 i better look at that form builder 02:29:10 it integrates with the templating system 02:29:30 i see.. think rob also used the same procs 02:29:42 ah, great. 02:29:52 is that available anywhere? 02:30:12 not sure 02:30:18 i think its still internal to us 02:30:32 i wonder if there is a way to build a default form that is dynamically generated based on the content type. 02:30:40 but you see doing cms really depends on the admin interface 02:30:45 i think luke tried that, but never got it working 02:30:58 cofax like or jahia like 02:31:09 both are extremes 02:31:22 my current modetp is closer to cofax 02:31:34 but then is that the right approach? 02:31:43 I am assuming that everything will live in the CR, so using that and some other services it should be possible to build different UIs 02:31:51 we do it cofax like or jahia like? 02:32:05 yup 02:32:43 even possibly breaking out parts of etp to act as a service to a seperate interface, more integrated with new-portal 02:33:03 the cofax type i think is easier to build without relying on new-portal. 02:33:24 but i will need to look at it more. 02:33:24 yup etp will be more of a service app 02:33:36 comprising of tcl procs and db apis 02:33:50 so do we move into a general comments like app? 02:34:05 excellent. this is a great plan, but i need something for the new openacs.org site soon :) 02:34:12 there is something I like about general comments is that its able to be in other packages 02:34:45 so many ideas and direction but we need only one 02:34:53 well i can see an application where new-portal is on top, and there are various content services, etp can be one fo them. there is also bugtracker, bboard, etc. 02:35:31 so we move to jahia like interface 02:35:34 for now I am going to go with what we have already for etp 2.0. and focus the interface like the one you were using in modetp. 02:35:45 and etp will act as the one to edit non application content 02:35:55 jun_ right. 02:36:08 so this is really two seperate issues. :) 02:36:30 right now we need something to add content to a site that goes live in less than a month. 02:37:43 oh yeah, i want to create a new-portal portlet for etp 2.0 :) 02:38:33 is new-portal the one issued in dotlrn? 02:39:19 yes. it is in the development branch of openacs also. 02:39:38 it will be the portal for openacs 4.6 i believe. 02:41:23 i see 02:41:57 what do you mean by "right now we need something to add content to a site that goes live in less than a month."? 02:42:07 you have a client project? 02:42:22 oh :) I am trying to get openacs.org switched over to openacs 4.5 02:42:41 it was partially developed with etp 1.0. 02:42:44 so you are the one who is working now for the new site 02:43:02 unless we get anymore volunteers. :) 02:43:45 i wish i could give a helping hand... m busy with work and looking for work to pay the rent 02:43:46 talli: lets get togther with rbm tomorrow and work out an initial task list in case we get some volunteers. 02:44:13 np. I will also be looking for work, but I can develop more openacs hacking skill in the meantime 02:44:20 do you want etp2 to be used for openacs.org? 02:44:42 yes. if possible. we will have a fallback plan. 02:45:05 but it will make it much easier i think to allow people to help out on different sections fo the site. 02:45:22 possibly have an etp for each optional package that is hosted at openacs.org etc... 02:46:37 but etp only needs write priv to have people admin rights 02:46:48 wouldn't that do? 02:47:01 like openacs.org/projectsubsite/etppage 02:47:01 yes. 02:47:05 sure that is fine. 02:47:52 so etp2 will not delay openacs.org site 02:48:00 that is why I am aiming towards the minimum number of added features for etp 2.0, but leaving the framework to add on later. 02:48:01 do you think that will be ok? 02:48:41 no. it won't delay. we can get most of the site going soon. and if etp 2.0 won't be ready, it will be similar to the current site. 02:49:24 i think using etp1 is ok as long there are no major lacking features 02:49:39 I'll have to check with talli. i thought there might have been a problem. 02:50:01 going back to etp2 02:50:28 or in general CMS of OACS it attacks things differently from other cms 02:51:00 OACS and even ACSJ makes new content types for each different kind of contents 02:51:17 which is odd not that I have seen other cms 02:51:21 for example 02:51:36 and article with text and image in ACS we make a new content type 02:51:49 say... "article with image" 02:52:17 but in other cms what they do is that they just relate an image content to a article content 02:52:26 that is the way it should be. 02:52:28 now they have an "article with image" 02:52:51 which also means that the image maybe linked to other content items 02:52:54 and can be done in openacs. that is what I was thinking about for adding multimedia content with etp articles etc. 02:53:01 sure. 02:53:16 that way i see is just use the cr_items.parent_id 02:53:28 i have done this for ticket-tracker lite 02:53:35 interesting. 02:53:41 where the parent id of cr_item is the ticket_id 02:53:53 the files is attached to the ticket 02:54:08 i have sent this to vinod although not sure if it got into OACS code 02:54:09 that is interesting, but only allows a cr_item to be mapped to one ticket. 02:54:25 for photos, etc that wouldn't work. 02:54:27 yup yup 02:54:32 ok :) 02:54:54 so there is still that inflexiblity of doing many to many 02:55:08 right, i think you need another table to map the items. 02:55:12 if you do the parent_id its just one to many 02:55:51 yeah... but that will not mean a modification of CR or a custom table for ETP 02:56:05 no. i am thinking of a multimedia package. 02:56:25 borrowing an idea from another project. I have to see how much we can borrow. 02:56:27 so how will that work? 02:56:44 images etc are stored in the cr along iwth the articles. 02:57:08 there is a map table that says which images are assigned to which content_items 02:57:25 and how will article be related to images? via a mapping table? 02:57:45 yes, the same table. 02:58:00 so you extend cr_items table? 02:58:10 no, there would have to be a new table to map this. 02:58:19 basically it works just like keywords. 02:58:41 oh yeah but will this new table be a part of CR or ETP? 02:58:52 good question. 02:59:03 since its a generic function its logical to be in CR 02:59:04 i think option 3, part of a seperate pacakge. 02:59:13 it would be a companian package to etp 02:59:17 both built on the cr 02:59:34 but why separate it? 03:00:45 it seems better to keep stuff out of the acs-core. possbly it would be added into it, but if you base it on th CR apis it does not rely on the internal structure of the CR 03:01:00 this is tricky stuff i think. when to split stuff off. 03:01:08 and what to build in to the cr. 03:01:20 i see 03:01:21 IE, keywords does not belong in the CR 03:01:36 really? where does keywords belong to? 03:01:41 whoa 03:01:43 it should be its own package. 03:01:44 sorry, i stepped away 03:01:47 heh 03:01:49 you guys really got into it! 03:01:51 great! 03:02:00 in fact I have a plan for that too :) 03:02:08 (borrowed from neophytos) 03:02:10