IRC log of openacs on 2002-06-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:08:57 [djweis]

djweis (~djweis@dsl.75.131.networkiowa.com) has joined #openacs

00:10:42 [rbm]

ooom

00:11:29 [rbm]

mbr: I got everything. Now I'm trying to figure out how to mount this huge heatsink on the processor :)

00:11:56 [denshi]

arc weld it

00:12:17 [rbm]

djweis, the guy from the jukebox site?

00:12:36 [rbm]

denshi: :)

00:13:05 [denshi]

rbm: actually a TiG welder would be a better fit in these circumstances

00:16:44 [rbm]

I don't know what that in

00:16:46 [rbm]

s/in/is/

00:18:43 [djweis]

sorry, i looked way rob. that is me.

00:19:27 [rbm]

djweis: hey there. Nice to see you around. Remember me from the posts on your bboard?

00:21:51 [rbm]

brb

00:30:10 [mbr]

moo?

00:30:10 [paje]

moo mbr, glad to see you back!

00:30:17 [mbr]

HUGE?

00:30:30 [mbr]

Damn, you would have been really puzzled had I sent you the other one

00:30:54 [denshi]

what's up djweis?

00:31:06 [mbr]

roberto, make sure you put thermal goo between the CPU and the heatsink

00:31:09 [denshi]

poke in to see about the release?

00:31:13 [mbr]

And make sure you do it right

00:32:06 [djweis]

djweis has left #openacs

00:58:25 [rbm]

mbr: I put the goo, but there wasn't much left of it.

00:58:33 [rbm]

mbr: err, what's the right way to do it?

00:58:55 [rbm]

mbr: You have to remember that I'm used to the heatsink in my K6-2 300

00:59:23 [mbr]

geez

00:59:26 [mbr]

how much did you put?

00:59:45 [rbm]

everything that was in that tube, but like I said, there was little left

00:59:47 [mbr]

You only need to cover the little square die with thickness of about a sheet of paper

01:00:11 [mbr]

please tell me you only did the die....

01:00:20 [rbm]

The "athlon" square? Yeah, that got covered

01:00:23 [rbm]

define "the die"

01:01:07 [rbm]

* rbm reads

01:01:20 [mbr]

next to last image on the page

01:01:26 [mbr]

And the one above it

01:03:09 [mbr]

btw, if I don't respond back...I'm attempting to code something in ASP on the other computer

01:03:55 [rbm]

okay

01:04:15 [rbm]

so what if some goo touched other parts of the processor (outside the die)?

01:04:53 [mbr]

Well....if you filled in the L1 bridges and they short out...the processor might not start

01:05:20 [mbr]

Then you'll have to clean it

01:08:44 [rbm]

ok.

01:08:54 [rbm]

how do you clean it?

01:09:01 [mbr]

If you fry it...I'm only sending you a Duron :P

01:09:15 [rbm]

S)

01:09:24 [rbm]

s/S/:/

01:09:48 [mbr]

wow

01:09:49 [mbr]

That sucks

01:10:05 [mbr]

a plane in CA crashed killing 3 while putting out wildfires

01:10:11 [mbr]

It's wings just broke off

01:22:55 [paje]

paje has quit ("regrouping; bbiab")

01:24:18 [denshi]

problem

01:24:25 [denshi]

"* To install the kernel datamodel in PostgreSQL 7.1 database user named in your AOLserver database pools must have the CREATEUSER privilege. You must drop your database and user and recreate the user, answering "yes" when asked if the new user should be able to create other users."

01:24:30 [denshi]

what's all this then?

01:24:35 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

01:24:46 [mbr]

Roberto, how's the computer building coming along? What are you missing?

01:24:52 [mbr]

paje, attack dave!

01:24:52 [denshi]

davb!

01:24:52 [davb]

hi

01:25:38 [denshi]

anyone know why oacs4.5 demands the CREATEUSER privilege?

01:25:40 [mbr]

i printed an 8x10 pic

01:25:42 [mbr]

It didn't come out too bad

01:26:05 [davb]

denshi, only to install the datamodel. you can take it away. its a creative recursive function definition

01:26:30 [denshi]

unfortunately, I'm trying to install it on hub.org, where I don't have that privelege

01:26:37 [denshi]

so how do I hack around it?

01:26:39 [davb]

hey! someone from central ny is on the bboard

01:26:43 [davb]

oh.

01:26:44 [davb]

hmmmm

01:26:56 [davb]

oh. what postgresql version?

01:27:12 [davb]

i think you could rewrite it for 7.2

01:27:14 [rbm]

mbr: I'm building it now. I'll use my old video card, and use everything built-in.

01:27:32 [denshi]

but I don't *have* 7.2 on hub.org

01:27:34 [rbm]

The motherboard I got didn't come with an ethernet card, so I'll scavenge a pci one

01:27:44 [davb]

oh :(

01:29:26 [mbr]

heh

01:29:31 [mbr]

What board did you get?

01:30:03 [mbr]

Hmmm

01:30:05 [davb]

rbm: any ideas for solving denshi's problem?

01:30:23 [mbr]

mbr is now known as Infraphylax

01:30:30 [Infraphylax]

hehe...You can't see me!

01:30:31 [Infraphylax]

Woooo

01:31:29 [rbm]

davb: hmmm, not off the top of my head.

01:31:54 [rbm]

I could look into it, but not right now

01:32:35 [denshi]

rbm: how much do you charge on an hourly basis?

01:33:00 [davb]

denshi: this seems to be a serious problem for anyone who doesn't control their postgreql install.

01:33:12 [davb]

but it is solved by postgresql 7.2

01:33:22 [denshi]

what chunk of schema do I need to look at?

01:33:32 [davb]

in fact, the code automatically does it the easy way with 7.2

01:33:47 [davb]

acs-kernel/sql/postgresql/postgresql.sql i think.

01:34:58 [davb]

starting at line 543

01:35:32 [markd2]

markd2 has quit ("Bork")

01:36:46 [denshi]

I think I just twisted my mind

01:36:50 [denshi]

back in a sec

01:37:32 [davb]

sorry.

01:42:11 [rbm]

denshi: depends on the job.

01:42:33 [rbm]

* rbm uninstalls a boatload of debian packages

01:43:43 [davb]

installing debian packages underwater $150/hour

01:47:47 [Infraphylax]

rbm, so you're only missing a NIC now?

01:50:12 [rbm]

immediatelly, yes

01:50:37 [Infraphylax]

So you got it booted and stuff?

01:51:32 [rbm]

not yet. I have to turn this computer off, because I'll use the hard drive. But I'm moving stuff off to the other HD first

01:52:24 [rbm]

I also will take the video card from this computer

01:52:38 [Infraphylax]

Ah

01:52:55 [Infraphylax]

So did you put ASII all over the processor or just on the little square in the center?

01:53:15 [rbm]

a little went on the processor, and I cleaned as best as I could

01:53:21 [rbm]

hopefully it'll be okay

01:53:28 [rbm]

If not, I'll commit arakiri tonight

01:53:33 [Infraphylax]

lol

01:54:06 [rbm]

and rm -rf is eating all my cpu time

01:54:18 [Infraphylax]

:-/

01:54:25 [rbm]

I think it didn't like that I am rm'ing quake3, SimCity 3000 and Myth2

01:54:48 [rbm]

Most likely it's ext3 going nuts updating the journal

01:54:59 [rbm]

ext3 doesn't handle this very gracefully.

01:57:51 [Infraphylax]

can you guys help me

01:58:00 [Infraphylax]

I need to clean out bad pictures from my galleries on pBase

02:06:08 [rbm]

Holy cow, the processor booted

02:13:33 [davb]

rbm: let's look at the stuff some more tomorrow if possible.

02:16:34 [davb]

davb is now known as davb-sleep

02:23:02 [rbm]

davb-sleep: sure

02:44:19 [denshi]

anyone awake?

02:44:23 [rbm]

me

02:44:44 [denshi]

psql -V says I'm running 7.2

02:44:48 [denshi]

but aolserver disagrees

02:44:58 [denshi]

what do you think?

02:49:19 [rbm]

your driver is probably compiled against libpq 7.1

02:49:30 [denshi]

cool

03:07:23 [denshi]

paje, again!

03:09:55 [rbm]

paje is sleeping right now

03:15:11 [denshi]

I want to send chunks of perl for paje to eval

03:16:30 [rbm]

I don't think he does that

03:17:10 [denshi]

I will programmatically make him my slave

03:18:01 [denshi]

this may take some time, tho

03:22:21 [rbm]

(:

03:26:49 [denshi]

damn. the driver recompile didn't work

03:27:45 [rbm]

what's wrong?

03:27:52 [denshi]

i mean, it compiled, it just didn't change the percieved version

03:28:12 [rbm]

AOLserver thinks it's 7.1?

03:28:21 [denshi]

yes

03:28:47 [denshi]

could AOLserver be right? I mean, could the pgsql client be 7.2, and the server be 7.1?

03:29:00 [rbm]

denshi: Most likely not.

03:29:15 [rbm]

denshi: you could ask the postmaster version

03:29:26 [denshi]

the postmaster is on another machine

03:29:53 [rbm]

hmmm

03:30:02 [rbm]

in that case, AOLserver might well be right

03:31:41 [denshi]

I'm looking at the postgres header files, trying to find a version number

03:33:49 [rbm]

do you have shell access to the PG machine?

03:34:22 [denshi]

nope

03:36:39 [denshi]

I just don't see any code that needs CREATEUSER

03:37:22 [rbm]

Check if it's attempting to create languages anywhere

03:41:35 [denshi]

aren't those distinct permissions?

03:45:38 [denshi]

oh. because you need to be able to update pg_proc

03:51:44 [rbm]

yes

03:51:58 [rbm]

you need to be a PG super user to be able to create languages

04:05:20 [denshi]

perhaps I could just shoot myself and the pgsql team

04:06:52 [denshi]

or perhaps the other way around

04:12:29 [rbm]

so, are there any attempts to create languages in the oacs code?

04:17:20 [denshi]

unknown

04:17:28 [denshi]

update pg_proc is the showstopper

04:26:13 [denshi]

hub.org is just giving me reason after reason to leave them

04:40:48 [rbm]

what now

04:42:40 [denshi]

I have a fix

04:42:47 [denshi]

co-routines

04:42:52 [denshi]

recursing on each other

04:43:00 [denshi]

where should I send the code?

04:43:37 [denshi]

then I need to find where the install script tests for 7.2 and null that out

04:43:52 [rbm]

denshi: post it as a patch on the SDM

04:43:55 [rbm]

openacs.org/sdm

04:49:53 [denshi]

how is rbm v.2 coming along?

09:20:48 [denshi]

denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection)

10:54:51 [davb-sleep]

davb-sleep has quit ("Client Exiting")

11:00:39 [donb]

donb (~chatzilla@ifwv.greenpeace.org) has joined #openacs

11:01:06 [donb]

Are all you slackers still asleep? C'mon, it's in the afternoon over here!

11:24:27 [talli]

hey donb

11:24:34 [talli]

how's the weather out there?

11:24:39 [donb]

Hot and muggy

11:24:48 [talli]

bummer

11:24:54 [talli]

how's the project coming along?

11:24:57 [donb]

Damned miserable, really,

11:25:06 [donb]

It's coming along well

11:25:09 [talli]

ok

11:25:15 [donb]

considering we punted on making it really great

11:25:27 [talli]

i assume the damned miserable was the weather ;)

11:25:37 [donb]

yes, the damned miserable is the weather

11:25:44 [donb]

So you're not coming to the social, eh?

11:25:48 [talli]

there's plenty of time to make it great

11:25:59 [talli]

when it's ported to PG, that will be an opportunity

11:26:03 [talli]

no, can't make the social

11:26:12 [talli]

i need to write dani and tell her

11:26:27 [talli]

tell everyone sorry bout that

11:26:29 [donb]

Well, it won't be ported to PG in anything like its current state, we've needed to keep most of Coddo's overall design

11:26:50 [talli]

ugh

11:26:55 [donb]

We figured you wouldn't come, it would be too embarrassing to be drunk under the table by a woman

11:27:03 [talli]

oh man

11:27:11 [donb]

Two women

11:27:33 [talli]

there's no shame in being destroyed by an australian when in drinking contests

11:27:56 [talli]

they're ancestors where the nobility of the british empire - the criminal class

11:28:20 [donb]

Not Danielle's, she's Irish/Scots but of course the Irish have experience drinking, too

11:28:51 [donb]

Add to that a couple of generations in Oz and look out!

11:29:03 [donb]

Just in case she reads the log - I did mention she's really nice, right?

11:29:11 [talli]

haha

11:29:21 [donb]

back me up on this, Talli!

11:29:39 [talli]

is bruno even able to get out of bed since the argentines got kicked out of the cup?

11:29:57 [donb]

He's gotten over it, and over his 30th b'day party

11:30:08 [talli]

no, i want dani to make you pay

11:30:12 [talli]

whoa

11:30:19 [talli]

those are some pretty heavy events.

11:30:42 [talli]

btw, if you want to block the log, you stick a # in front of your sentence

11:30:43 [donb]

Argentina lost to England on his 30th bday

11:30:48 [talli]

oh man

11:30:51 [talli]

serious pain

11:32:31 [donb]

I haven't asked

11:32:51 [donb]

Like that?

11:32:55 [talli]

yes

11:33:01 [talli]

well applied

11:33:21 [talli]

or ....

11:33:41 [donb]

Well, I gotta get back to work ... rob a bank for me, will you? The damned efficient Dutch bank network rarely talks to the US

11:33:53 [donb]

I'm out of Euros again

11:34:09 [donb]

Did I? Who was that?

11:34:26 [talli]

it was a joke

11:34:27 [donb]

Must've been one of those "work 'til 1:30 AM drink 'til 3 AM" mornings after

11:34:33 [talli]

lay off on the dope.

11:34:41 [talli]

it's affecting your sense of humor

11:34:43 [donb]

OK, I'll quit teasing you

11:34:55 [donb]

No, it didn't!

11:34:57 [talli]

have a good one

11:35:21 [donb]

I will, I'll check in later, I need Euros so I can buy beer and cool down after work

11:35:40 [donb]

Damned dutch banks

11:35:58 [donb]

Bruno had the same problem from the US

11:36:05 [davb]

davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs

11:36:10 [davb]

hello

11:36:18 [davb]

hi donb

11:36:45 [davb]

brb

11:36:54 [donb]

Danielle sez "Luv ya wurk" she's teaching me to spell

11:37:06 [donb]

Should be "wuuuurk"

11:37:19 [donb]

A more accurate phonetic translation of what I listen to every day

11:37:50 [donb]

Here comes Danielle ...

11:37:57 [donb]

hi

11:38:00 [donb]

its danielle

11:38:01 [donb]

:)

11:38:10 [donb]

thanks for all the work so far

11:38:17 [davb]

thank you.

11:38:19 [donb]

... I can't shoot any more your way for now

11:38:22 [davb]

I am happy to help.

11:38:24 [davb]

np

11:38:38 [donb]

we're gunning for launch and we're going to focus on that

11:38:50 [donb]

maybe you could draft up an invoice and send it through...

11:38:55 [davb]

sure. it is looking great.

11:38:58 [davb]

I will do that.

11:39:20 [donb]

we'll begin processing it on monday... providing we don't call you urgently with a 'please fix!! please please please' request of course....

11:39:25 [davb]

let me know where to send it (or is email ok?)

11:39:41 [donb]

email is fine. :) send it to me

11:39:46 [donb]

danielle

11:39:51 [davb]

great. (right)

11:40:50 [donb]

ok, I'll hand you back to Don - and THANKYOU for everything so far...

11:40:57 [donb]

we're looking good i think :)

11:41:09 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625176-26.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs

11:41:19 [denshi]

moo

11:41:54 [denshi]

anyone around?

11:47:23 [donb]

This is Don again, Danielle's gone back to her Yahoo Chat client with the frou-frou screensaver backgrounds

12:05:00 [denshi]

hey don

12:05:27 [denshi]

I've managed to get past my myriad 4.5 install problems and am trying to write code in it

12:07:05 [denshi]

are you still in denmark?

12:12:54 [Infraphylax]

gurlge!

12:13:34 [denshi]

stop that, *phylax, you'll scare him off!

12:14:24 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax hangs his head and wanders behind a bush

12:14:33 [denshi]

can anyone clarify?: do I absolutely have to create a package containing any new files to get them served?

12:14:46 [davb]

what type of files?

12:14:53 [davb]

tcl/adp?

12:15:16 [davb]

i think you have to if you want them in a subdirectory.

12:20:10 [denshi]

ah, good morning davb

12:21:06 [denshi]

I managed to hack around my 7.1 problem

12:21:28 [davb]

excellent!

12:21:42 [davb]

very impressive.

12:21:47 [davb]

brb

12:22:13 [donb]

You should create a package, it makes things like working with the Query Dispatcher easier, and the APM has nice features like the "watch library file" feature that tracks lib changes and reloads them

12:22:43 [donb]

We're taking a snack break, I'm starved, since the Euro machine is broken and can't talk to the US today

12:23:06 [denshi]

I know I *should* create a package, but I wonder if I can just map a dir in the QD for rapid prototyping

12:23:39 [denshi]

davb: the fix was to replace the self-recursive tree_ancestor_keys with 2 co-routines that alternately recursed on each other

12:23:55 [talli]

talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)

12:31:49 [davb]

denshi, it is very easy to create a package. i created one that contains all the custom tcl i imported from my openacs 3 site.

12:32:10 [Infraphylax]

paje, seen rbm

12:32:38 [davb]

donb: if you have been following along, denshi removed the createuser requirement for postgresql 7.1

12:33:01 [talli]

talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs

12:35:42 [talli]

hey denshi, how is the apache2 project coming along?

12:36:25 [talli]

i've still got a couple hundred openacs4 tshirts that say "Apache!" on them

12:49:34 [Infraphylax]

monkeybone!

12:56:13 [denshi]

mmm... life-giving latte...

12:56:31 [donb]

What did he grant instead of create user?

12:57:01 [denshi]

donb: nothing

12:57:06 [denshi]

check the sdm/patches

12:57:59 [denshi]

since postgres will happily recurse on anything, all it's doing is checking for symbol definition

12:58:14 [denshi]

so it's trivial to create 2 coroutines that mutally recurse on each other

12:59:15 [denshi]

then you don't have the problem of trying to define a symbol that recurses on a symbol that you're trying to define that recurses... etc

12:59:44 [denshi]

talli: I released a stable mod_scheme (for Apache2) to the adoring masses

12:59:50 [donb]

Hmmm....I wanted that structure because PG 7.2 semi-supports straight recursion and PG 7.3 will fully support recursion

13:00:16 [denshi]

donb: in terms of stack usage, it's the same thing

13:00:33 [donb]

Sure but straight recursion is simpler and more straightforward for the reader

13:00:37 [denshi]

eh

13:00:52 [donb]

The PG 7.1 code will go away in 4.6 when we will only support 7.2+

13:01:14 [denshi]

having your project crippled by not having root access to the DB is straightforward, but remarkably non-pleasant

13:01:41 [donb]

You can remove it afterwards of course

13:01:58 [donb]

It is only needed for install

13:02:30 [donb]

And given PG's weak access controls (getting better) typically you create a new db for each user so they can only hose themselves

13:02:32 [denshi]

no, no, you don't see. I'm hosting at hub.org. I don't own the DB machine. The DB machine is shared. And I can't *get* root access

13:02:46 [donb]

Sure, but didn't Marc install for you?

13:02:59 [denshi]

Marc installed oacs3 back in the day

13:03:39 [denshi]

anyway, I need to get back to work

13:03:59 [donb]

Well, whatever, we're dropping PG 7.1 shortly anyway

13:04:08 [denshi]

but I don't think my code is any less straightforward than manually adjusting pg_proc

13:04:36 [donb]

whatever.

13:23:28 [cro]

cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs

13:36:53 [rbm]

oom

13:41:18 [davb]

hi rbm

13:41:21 [davb]

and cro

13:41:28 [cro]

greets al

13:41:29 [cro]

all

13:41:36 [denshi]

yo rbm

13:42:01 [denshi]

thx for your help last night

13:42:58 [rbm]

hi all

13:43:09 [rbm]

denshi: Np. Did I help at all?

13:43:18 [rbm]

I see that you fixed the problem

13:43:19 [denshi]

sure. it's working now

13:43:46 [rbm]

how much should I leave for Windows on this 40 Gb disk?

13:44:14 [rbm]

it uses 1 Gb just for the OS, so 5 Gb should be okay

13:45:29 [denshi]

your games fit inside 4Gb?

13:45:43 [rbm]

Dungeon siege will take 1 Gb alnoe

13:48:18 [rbm]

ok. 6 Gb then

13:49:56 [denshi]

mods?

13:50:25 [rbm]

?

13:51:01 [denshi]

sorry, drive space for DS mods?

13:51:20 [rbm]

5 Gb just for games have to be enough. I'm not that much of a gamer.

13:52:05 [denshi]

I just stuck windows on a seperate drive. I don't trust it around LILO anymore.

13:52:21 [rbm]

i wish I had a separate drive

13:52:36 [rbm]

I use grub

13:53:13 [denshi]

grub/lilo; it's not the util, it's win2k's occasionally ravenous desire for the mbr.

13:53:44 [denshi]

brb

13:53:54 [rbm]

:) TRUE

13:54:30 [rbm]

oops, sorry for the caps

13:56:27 [talli]

hey guys

13:56:40 [rbm]

hey

13:58:19 [talli]

for the past few weeks i've been using a unix desktop exclusively

13:58:24 [talli]

i don't think i can go back to anything else now

13:58:30 [rbm]

:)

13:58:46 [talli]

i might even experiment with letting my mom use it too

13:58:54 [rbm]

which desktop?

13:58:58 [talli]

set her up with mozilla and evolution and see how she does

13:59:02 [talli]

i use xfce

13:59:12 [talli]

what do you use?

13:59:16 [talli]

i've only used kde and xfce

13:59:26 [talli]

i haven't like gnome when i've used it

13:59:35 [talli]

and even kde has been a bit too much bloat

13:59:37 [rbm]

talli: I have several friends who have their moms using Linux boxen setup "for dummies" for everything they normally do on win/macs (e-mail, web, etc.)

13:59:47 [talli]

any problems?

13:59:51 [talli]

it's probably better that way

13:59:52 [rbm]

no

13:59:59 [talli]

if there's ever an issue you can ssh into their boxes

14:00:05 [rbm]

exactly

14:00:17 [talli]

that's cool

14:00:37 [rbm]

I can't believe windows is this dumbp

14:00:55 [talli]

try XP

14:01:03 [talli]

you will find 2K to be a work of art

14:01:06 [talli]

compared to XP

14:01:09 [rbm]

I booted off the CD. It loaded setup, took me through partitioning, now it's time to "load the windows files" from the CD. It says it can't find the CD.

14:02:15 [rbm]

it found it on the third try

14:02:46 [talli]

what are the chances that aol releases a native linux client? to run on a lindows box from walmart?

14:02:54 [rbm]

Some people have told me that XP boots a lot faster than 2K and that you can turn off the fluff

14:02:56 [davb]

ohh. cool.

14:03:12 [rbm]

talli: I think they have a native Linux client already

14:03:13 [talli]

XP may boot faster

14:03:24 [talli]

oh yeah? they just haven't released it yet?

14:03:26 [davb]

XP is not bad. i have mine stripped down to the base 2k style, but it still loads MSN messenger etc.

14:03:27 [rbm]

yeah

14:03:33 [talli]

i wonder if they will build their next system in XUL

14:03:41 [talli]

totally XP

14:03:50 [talli]

cross-platform, that is

14:03:52 [davb]

that would be neat. they could do the whole client with mozilla.

14:03:57 [talli]

XP *is* bad

14:04:04 [rbm]

so you _have_ to load MSN Messenger?

14:04:20 [talli]

in my install, every time i boot XP i have to perform a ritual in order for it to connect to the DHCP server

14:04:22 [talli]

this ritual is

14:04:26 [davb]

yes. there is a way to get rid of it, but then outlook express will not work.

14:04:27 [rbm]

talli: I doubt it. XUL is slow.

14:04:32 [talli]

open the client

14:04:33 [davb]

talli: weird.

14:04:41 [talli]

open the nic properties

14:04:47 [rbm]

davb: That's great then!

14:04:49 [talli]

change them to a static ip with dummy numbers

14:04:53 [talli]

close the properties

14:04:57 [talli]

load the nic client

14:05:01 [talli]

open the client again

14:05:07 [talli]

open the properties

14:05:10 [talli]

change it to DHCP

14:05:14 [talli]

load the properties

14:05:15 [davb]

rbm: I wonder if I have the link. it is very tricky.

14:05:35 [talli]

that is not a good OS. *and* it's not like i just need to know sysadmining a win system better

14:05:46 [rbm]

The other day I had to install MSN Messenger to be able to use Netmeeting

14:05:46 [talli]

rbm: XUL isn't that slow

14:06:00 [davb]

bbl

14:06:14 [talli]

the mozilla developer in my office complains about cocoa being slow compared to XUL

14:06:19 [talli]

so it can't be that bad

14:06:32 [talli]

although it's probably not as fast as native win widgets

14:06:34 [rbm]

talli: oh, okay. Komodo is done using it, so it's probably okay

14:06:51 [talli]

all of mozilla is done using XUL

14:07:10 [rbm]

on my machine I can see it rendering the buttons when I click on a menu

14:07:22 [talli]

a k6 300?

14:07:25 [rbm]

err, invert "buttons" and "menus"

14:07:28 [talli]

ah

14:07:28 [rbm]

k6-2 300

14:07:34 [talli]

what version of X are you using?

14:07:38 [rbm]

4.1

14:07:42 [talli]

hmmm... weird

14:07:59 [talli]

how much RAM?

14:08:04 [rbm]

320

14:08:08 [talli]

very weird

14:08:24 [talli]

i can't imagine that XUL is any slower or bloated than GNOME tools

14:08:31 [rbm]

I'm sure you cn't notice it on a fast machine, but I can clearly on mine

14:08:59 [talli]

whenever i look at my processes when running evolution, there are about 40 of them dedicated to running different "tools" for a gnome app

14:09:10 [rbm]

GTK is pretty fast. It's not doing any dynamic generation of widgets, unless you're using libglade

14:09:39 [talli]

i think evolution uses libglade, although i've never really looked at teh processes. been too stunned by the number of them

14:09:55 [talli]

has anyone tried gnome2?

14:10:13 [rbm]

Yeah, they are several pieces of the gnome "framework". There's OAF (Object activation framework), Corba, bonobo (component arch), gconf (gnome registry), esound

14:11:10 [rbm]

I heaar gnome 2 is better.

14:11:16 [rbm]

GTK 2 is _way_ better

14:11:30 [cro]

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14:18:46 [cro]

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14:27:10 [denshi]

talli: the last mail I sent to P.Graham, I got a response of "Arc already does this. "

14:27:30 [denshi]

I'd enjoy the power of telling people off in one line.

14:27:43 [talli]

whoa

14:27:43 [denshi]

...and I would use it for good, and never for evil.

14:27:44 [talli]

nice

14:27:54 [talli]

what did you ask him about?

14:28:47 [denshi]

I sent him a chunk of code that would read [] delimited statements as indexes on any compound data structure: arrays, strings, hashes

14:29:15 [talli]

nice

14:29:24 [talli]

gotta head out. bbl

14:29:24 [denshi]

so instead of (gethash key some_hash), you have [some_hash key]. and it's a straight s-expr transform

14:29:28 [denshi]

see ya

14:29:32 [talli]

whoa, that would be cool

14:29:38 [talli]

ttyiab

14:30:02 [cro]

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14:30:25 [rbm]

* rbm will be re-starting on SICP (and scheme) thursday

14:36:47 [cro]

cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs

14:55:07 [davb]

denshi: did you ask him to show you the code? :)

14:55:38 [denshi]

nope

14:55:49 [denshi]

as it was just too cool for me

14:55:53 [davb]

because arc sounds cool. but can you download it?

14:55:56 [davb]

i see.

14:56:05 [denshi]

he hasn't released it yet

14:56:23 [denshi]

the cool part is that my approach is basically a hack on a reader that transforms into a macro

14:56:34 [denshi]

his approach does some funky thing with the type system

14:56:37 [davb]

i'll take your word for it :)

14:56:40 [davb]

ah.

14:58:33 [davb]

I need to get some work hacking openacs so I can make some money, and then take off some time to learn some stuff.

15:02:37 [rbm]

what's arc?

15:02:50 [davb]

paul grahams new langauge.

15:03:03 [denshi]

how do you set another user as a site-wide administrator?

15:03:07 [rbm]

oh

15:03:20 [bduell]

bduell (~bduell@gowron.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs

15:05:03 [davb]

aigh not again. rbm: lets make that priority #1. a make user site-wide admin function in the ui.

15:05:16 [davb]

denshi: grant them admin priviege on object 0

15:06:25 [rbm]

davb: agreed

15:06:30 [davb]

arc is paul graham's new language: http://www.paulgraham.com/arc.html

15:06:40 [davb]

hmm. will paje learn that, or do I need to tell him?

15:06:51 [davb]

paje, arc is paul graham's new language: http://www.paulgraham.com/arc.html

15:06:55 [davb]

arc?

15:07:02 [davb]

hey, he's not here. oops

15:07:04 [denshi]

paje is dead.

15:07:09 [denshi]

long live paje.

15:07:20 [davb]

lunch

15:07:35 [denshi]

long live lunch!

15:13:15 [larspind]

larspind has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

15:15:34 [paje]

paje (~paje@slxwy.dorms.usu.edu) has joined #openacs

15:15:35 [rbm]

paje come alive!

15:15:37 [paje]

rbm: i'm not following you...

15:16:08 [rbm]

paje: arc is Paul Graham's new language: http://www.paulgraham.com/arc.html

15:16:10 [paje]

OK, rbm.

15:16:24 [rbm]

* rbm install Win2K's SP2

15:16:33 [rbm]

installs even

15:21:26 [Infraphylax]

moo?

15:21:27 [paje]

moo Infraphylax, glad to see you back!

15:21:43 [Infraphylax]

paje seen moo

15:21:44 [paje]

I haven't seen 'moo', Infraphylax

15:21:44 [rbm]

hey Infraphylax, the machine lives

15:21:49 [Infraphylax]

Really?

15:21:54 [Infraphylax]

Is it fast?

15:21:55 [Infraphylax]

:)

15:22:01 [rbm]

Infraphylax: yeah. I'm installing SP2 now.

15:22:10 [Infraphylax]

Cool

15:22:27 [Infraphylax]

So your other box just needs a hard drive and a video card?

15:22:33 [rbm]

it boots windows quite fast, but it's mostly been downloading stuff so far. I have to install SP2 before installing the sound drivers

15:22:41 [Infraphylax]

:)

15:23:04 [rbm]

Infraphylax: yes

15:23:12 [Infraphylax]

The checks I sent...you can probably cash the first one this weekend

15:23:17 [Infraphylax]

And then the second one a week later

15:23:27 [Infraphylax]

and you can get your ATI card from newegg with the money

15:23:54 [rbm]

yeah

15:24:22 [Infraphylax]

:)

15:24:23 [Infraphylax]

cool

15:24:46 [Infraphylax]

How are the temperatures?

15:25:11 [rbm]

when I was looking at the BIOS, it was aronud 25 F

15:25:19 [Infraphylax]

For the processor?

15:25:23 [Infraphylax]

That's wrong :)

15:25:24 [rbm]

hmmm, maybe that was cesius

15:25:31 [rbm]

s/cesius/celsius/

15:25:37 [rbm]

I can't remember

15:25:41 [Infraphylax]

paje...convert 25C to Farenheight

15:25:50 [Infraphylax]

Damn you paje

15:25:57 [rbm]

Tc/5 = (Tf -32)/9

15:26:08 [Infraphylax]

:)

15:26:35 [Infraphylax]

45 + 32

15:26:41 [Infraphylax]

paje, 45 + 32

15:26:43 [paje]

77

15:26:46 [Infraphylax]

Wow

15:26:55 [Infraphylax]

If it's 77 degrees that's way too high

15:27:01 [Infraphylax]

brb

15:27:46 [Infraphylax]

Roberto, download Motherboard MOnitor 5

15:28:03 [rbm]

Infraphylax: My motherboard comes with a monitor thingy, but I can't install it before SP2

15:28:22 [Infraphylax]

Why not?

15:28:28 [rbm]

what's the normal temperature?

15:28:36 [rbm]

because the manual says so

15:28:45 [Infraphylax]

between 30-45C

15:28:46 [rbm]

let me try to install it

15:28:56 [Infraphylax]

actually

15:28:57 [paje]

i heard actually was there something to automate this a bit more?

15:28:57 [rbm]

That's 80-110 F

15:29:10 [Infraphylax]

30-55 or so

15:29:15 [Infraphylax]

anything above 65 is bad

15:29:23 [Infraphylax]

damn the temp thing

15:29:25 [Infraphylax]

You confused me

15:29:28 [Infraphylax]

lies lies! all lies!

15:29:29 [rbm]

:)

15:33:13 [Infraphylax]

paje, time?

15:33:14 [paje]

Tue Jun 18 04:36:17 2002

15:33:26 [Infraphylax]

paje, time eastern

15:33:27 [paje]

Infraphylax: sorry...

15:33:50 [rbm]

well, the setup for the monitor thingy froze and windows won't kill it

15:33:56 [Infraphylax]

lol

15:34:00 [Infraphylax]

just leave it be then

15:34:05 [rbm]

* rbm misses Linux already

15:34:06 [Infraphylax]

when you finish SP2 it will kill it

15:34:22 [rbm]

it's unpacking sp2 now

15:35:10 [davb]

hmmm. i am trying to write some advertising for OpenACS that doesn't sound like buzzword bingo. this is tricky.

15:35:47 [rbm]

* rbm cheers davb

15:35:57 [davb]

heh

15:36:08 [davb]

so far it sucks.

15:36:16 [davb]

I have tried this a few times.

15:36:57 [rbm]

hmmm, I think this frozen stup thing is using all my cpu time, causing the sp2 unpacking to take way too long

15:37:02 [rbm]

windows is beautiful

15:40:06 [Infraphylax]

:)

15:41:00 [Infraphylax]

it takes a good 45 minutes to install SP3

15:41:01 [Infraphylax]

err.

15:41:03 [Infraphylax]

2

15:41:28 [rbm]

I imagine 40 of those are not on unpacking

15:42:24 [Infraphylax]

Well

15:42:27 [Infraphylax]

you can reboot

15:42:34 [Infraphylax]

since it's just unpacking and not installing

15:58:41 [Infraphylax]

dave?

15:58:42 [paje]

dave is back

15:58:55 [rbm]

what should I set for CPU FSB clock?

15:59:27 [Infraphylax]

133

15:59:35 [Infraphylax]

isn't there an auto mode?

15:59:52 [rbm]

yeah, I was about to ask if I should leave it like that

16:00:09 [Infraphylax]

unless you want to overclock

16:00:11 [Infraphylax]

:)

16:00:23 [rbm]

i'll take that back. For FSB Clock, there's no auto

16:00:28 [Infraphylax]

You could try setting that mem to 6/2/2 and see if it's stable

16:00:37 [Infraphylax]

133

16:04:00 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax enjoys Osmosis jones on a 42" plasma in HD and 16:9

16:07:24 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. If you haven't had a chance, please take a look at http://somegeek.org/status.html (updated 17 June). The site may be overloaded at first but please give it a try. Thanks.

16:24:30 [davb]

Infraphylax: whats up?

16:30:33 [rbm]

Infraphylax: Is this motherboard monitor 5 a free-ish app?

16:35:07 [rbm]

Infraphylax nm, fousdi t

16:57:23 [Infraphylax]

hmm?

16:57:23 [davb]

davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

16:57:28 [Infraphylax]

yes it is

16:58:20 [Infraphylax]

paje seen rbm

16:58:21 [paje]

rbm was last seen on #openacs 23 minutes and 12 seconds ago, saying: Infraphylax nm, fousdi t [Tue Jun 18 05:38:12 2002]

17:07:58 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax goes to the lab again

17:12:17 [davb]

davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs

17:30:05 [donb]

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17:48:29 [talli]

anyone still here?

17:49:52 [cro]

just us chickens

17:53:08 [talli]

hey cro

17:53:30 [talli]

rbm and davb you guys around?

17:58:47 [davb]

hi

17:59:33 [talli]

hey, we need the new site done by august 12

17:59:39 [cro]

how come?

17:59:48 [davb]

ok.

18:00:13 [talli]

because i've reserved a booth for openacs at linux world in the dotorg pavilion

18:00:15 [davb]

that should be no problem. I was figuring early july, unless we decide to finish etp2 and fix up bugtracker.

18:00:20 [cro]

cool!

18:00:21 [davb]

cool.

18:00:24 [davb]

where is it?

18:00:25 [talli]

so it would be nice to have a real site ready by then

18:00:28 [talli]

SF

18:00:37 [talli]

linuxworld.com

18:00:47 [davb]

a little far to commute for me.

18:01:09 [talli]

yeah, bummer

18:01:19 [davb]

darnies.

18:01:33 [talli]

there'll be another one in nYC next Dec.

18:01:34 [davb]

philg is an vacation again, and rehat broke all the links to panda

18:01:38 [davb]

neat.

18:02:34 [davb]

maybe I can get the top secret client to spring for it.

18:03:16 [cro]

So just out of curiosity, how many of the oacs developers might be able to make it? Anyone hazard a guess if Don could be there?

18:04:02 [talli]

don will be there

18:04:13 [cro]

how about you talli?

18:04:18 [talli]

i think quite a few people will make it

18:04:20 [talli]

yeah, i'll be there

18:04:23 [talli]

i grew up in the bay area

18:04:29 [talli]

my parents are still out there

18:04:59 [cro]

Hmm, my sister lives in Fremont, wonder if I can take a few more days out from this project to go...

18:05:03 [talli]

i think janine and mike sisk will be there too

18:05:15 [talli]

linuxworld is pretty cool

18:05:21 [talli]

althoguh not as big as it used to be

18:05:28 [talli]

there are still some neat things

18:05:33 [talli]

and lots and lots of geeks

18:07:52 [davb]

darn, if I get a project to work on, i might have enough money to go, of course, then I will be too busy.

18:20:19 [davb]

rbm: on the list of cleaning up OpenACS lets try to get the default pages and etc to validate. I am not sure if they do or not right now.

18:34:51 [davb]

yeah. i got my home page and weblog pages to validate xhtml.

18:37:51 [davb]

we will have to agree on some HTML coding standards for packages to be included with openacs.

18:46:25 [Infraphylax]

?

18:46:31 [talli]

talli has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020616]")

18:48:04 [talli]

talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs

18:56:29 [Infraphylax]

buy.com has optical mice For 7$

18:57:13 [jim]

jim (~jim@12.155.172.152) has joined #openacs

18:57:23 [jim]

re.

18:58:29 [talli]

hey jim!

18:58:32 [talli]

welcome back

19:09:02 [jim]

thanks :)

19:09:10 [jim]

howyadoin?

19:11:06 [jim]

there, I put my site up again...

19:12:17 [talli]

jim: i've reserved a booth for openacs at linuxworld in SF

19:12:49 [talli]

i'm expectin' you to round up all the OACS hackers in the bay area...

19:13:44 [jim]

ok... I know about 3.

19:13:56 [jim]

one is an ex aD employee

19:14:24 [jim]

(hmm, actually dunno if he's interested in OACS, but I'll certainly find out)

19:28:48 [Infraphylax]

paje seen rbm

19:28:48 [paje]

rbm was last seen on #openacs 8 hours, 50 minutes and 43 seconds ago, saying: Infraphylax nm, fousdi t [Tue Jun 18 05:38:12 2002]

19:31:20 [davb]

bbl

19:31:22 [davb]

davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")

20:29:38 [rbm]

oom

20:37:44 [bduell]

bduell has quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")

20:39:01 [Infraphylax]

moo

20:39:07 [Infraphylax]

what's the big deal with unions anyway

21:08:37 [rbm]

SELECT foo, bar FROM foobar UNION SELECT baz, bacena FROM psyche

21:08:43 [rbm]

I dunno what's wrong with that

21:08:57 [rbm]

(:

21:15:26 [Infraphylax]

someone get me popcorn

21:15:31 [Infraphylax]

monkeybone is on!

21:16:44 [rbm]

Infraphylax: Installed and ran Dungeon Siege

21:16:53 [Infraphylax]

How is it?

21:16:55 [rbm]

pretty cool

21:17:02 [denshi]

how cool?

21:17:03 [rbm]

I'm installing Debian now.

21:17:04 [Infraphylax]

fast?

21:17:12 [rbm]

Yeah. Very.

21:17:26 [denshi]

l8r

21:17:29 [denshi]

denshi has quit ()

21:17:35 [rbm]

* rbm wishes for a KVM switch

21:17:44 [rbm]

paje: grant my wish

21:17:45 [paje]

rbm: sorry...

21:17:48 [rbm]

;-(

21:18:13 [Infraphylax]

* Infraphylax watches MonkeyBone

21:18:20 [rbm]

movie?

21:18:28 [rbm]

bbiab. having to switch keyboards around

21:24:40 [Infraphylax]

yup

21:57:33 [cro]

cro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

22:42:01 [Infraphylax]

goes home

23:51:23 [Infraphylax]

anyone awake?