00:01:59 who's here? 00:02:00 somebody said here was what happens: if I don't have anything in rzolf's form 00:02:48 not me 00:03:43 I'm here 00:03:55 oh, wait, i am here too, oops 00:04:07 does anyone use acs-groups seriously? 00:04:17 heh 00:04:20 Cool :) 00:04:22 I have discovered! 00:04:30 markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-110.ip.alltel.net) has joined #Openacs 00:04:31 Well, not really..just experimented until I learned some things 00:04:34 Hey Mark! 00:04:40 Domo domo domo domo! 00:04:40 hi markd2 00:04:43 bork 00:04:43 you've discovered mark! 00:04:51 i have discovered ogg 00:04:51 hey davb 00:04:55 LOL 00:05:01 mbr, do you have domo^4 bound to a hotkey? 00:05:09 No, should I? 00:05:18 do you know what I need to do to get mozilla to show the 'favorite icon' for my site? 00:05:27 like slashdot has its little icon when you load the page 00:05:31 cool! it works 00:05:43 I've created a favicon.ico and I don't see it for borkware :-( 00:05:44 davb: did you see my proposal? 00:05:49 favicon.ico 00:06:32 me neither. hmmm. 00:06:34 I got one of those :-( doesn't work 00:06:51 I figured I'd use one of your spiffy B bullet thingies 00:07:31 here you go 00:07:34 http://www.favicon.com/ 00:07:34 A: http://www.favicon.com/ from davb 00:07:46 davb++ thanks 00:07:47 davb: did you see my proposal?!@$*!@#)!@* 00:08:08 rbm: sorrry.. 00:08:15 yes i did. sounds good to me. 00:08:24 I'm off to cook some pasteis. bbl 00:08:24 problem is I think the page flow needs to change. 00:12:56 woot! got the icon now. 00:13:02 need to add to the page 00:13:16 ah, neat. 00:13:43 cool. 00:14:35 i love ogg. i am going to encode all my cds. now i just need to see if i can find a nice tool to make it easy. 00:14:47 what's a good way to get some positive credit? 00:14:59 get a credit card. charge stuff. pay it on time. 00:15:15 on-time, as in promptly 00:15:20 yeah...what if they won't give you a credit card because you have 0 credit? 00:15:24 not on-time, as in sprea dout lots of time 00:15:26 no good, no bad...just none 00:15:28 get a secrued credit card 00:15:33 go to college. banks love college students 00:15:36 What's a secured credit card? 00:15:45 try a store credit card. 00:15:54 you let the credit card company hang on to a deposit. That's your credit limit 00:15:56 my friend did 00:16:01 ah 00:16:03 store credit cards work well 00:16:28 They won't give him any 00:16:35 he tried Exxon, Sears, Old Navy 00:16:40 oh. secured almost always will work. 00:16:56 Any "safe" places to get one from? 00:16:56 yeah. that's the credit card of last resort for folks with really *bad* credit 00:17:04 the big banks probably do it 00:17:06 but he just has non 00:17:30 also, a store may bend the rules and give him a card if he can show a couple of months of paystubs 00:17:45 since it's in their best interest to get the cards to folks who wont default 00:18:10 What about debit cards? 00:18:17 Don't they work like a secured credit card? 00:18:36 I don't like debit cards 00:18:42 since they suck money directly out of your account 00:18:52 right, but do they get you credit? 00:18:56 Or is it just like writing a check? 00:18:58 I don't think so 00:19:07 they're like checks 00:19:11 writing checks doesn't improve your credit line :-) 00:19:17 davb: use grip. It does oggs 00:19:19 right 00:19:43 also, if he can get someone to co-sign the card who does have good credit, that would work 00:19:49 it'd have to be someone that really trusts him, though 00:20:16 heh 00:20:19 His gf should 00:21:27 mbr: I go to college, make little money salary-wise, and have a credit line of $15,000 on my credit card only. 00:21:47 lol 00:21:53 but you 00:21:57 I don't have a problem with credit...my friend does :) 00:21:59 're probably a lot cuter than mbr's friend 00:22:04 mbr: I'm not saying you do 00:22:18 He's also not willing to go to college just to get a credit card 00:22:20 The first credit card I got I had a credit line of $500 00:22:29 taking loans from banks should work too. 00:22:33 that's what banks are there for :-) 00:22:34 yeah 00:22:49 have him borrow $1000 for a new computer, and pay it off over a couple of months 00:24:14 How often do they usually give you credit increases? 00:25:56 rbm: grip. i looked but it only had an mp3 tab. :) i'll have to check again. 00:26:01 markd2 has quit ("bork") 00:26:29 heh, nm. it is automagically configured for ogg. 00:26:37 but it still says mp3 on the tab 00:26:49 davb: You can choose whatever encoder you want. grip is just a front-end. I've encoded oggs with grip. 00:28:15 how is discover card in terms of giving credit? 00:28:22 That's how I got me credit 00:28:35 mbr: Tell him to get a LinuxFund card. 00:29:17 argh. it worked before, now it says unable to open cdrom drive 00:29:44 It's a master card, and they'll often (every 6 months or so) offer you a new card. I've found out accidentally that if you accept that card, you can later just ask them to merge both accounts, and voila, your credit line is increased. 00:30:17 nm 00:30:46 cool 00:31:39 talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 00:31:42 ah, fixed. the cd ripping application it was configured for was not installed. 00:32:15 hey guys, have another openacs install question 00:32:31 i'm at the stage where i've downloaded and untarred openacs to /web 00:32:38 however, i was not able to do this as nsadmin 00:32:42 only as root 00:32:54 upon checking permissions (ls -l), i get this answer 00:33:10 talhome web # ls -l 00:33:11 total 4 00:33:13 drwxr-xr-x 7 501 500 4096 Jun 16 06:52 openweb 00:33:55 what do 501 and 500 mean? 00:34:20 user and group 00:34:35 ah, ok 00:34:42 why is it giving me number? 00:34:45 numbers? 00:34:46 no clue :) 00:35:03 they are the user # and group # in passwd and groups files 00:35:06 ok, thanks 00:37:09 so if i go into /etc/passwd and /etc/group i should be able to find 501 and 500? 00:37:42 yes 00:38:33 hmmm... there's nothing in those 00:38:37 at least for those numbers 00:39:07 weird. 00:39:34 then I am out of ideas. 00:42:39 ls -n shows group/user numbers on my machine. 00:46:24 wow 00:46:40 so this is what it feels like to just have a spontaneous bulb go on in your head 00:46:50 I think I'm in the wrong career field 00:51:52 it seems that i cannot create an openacs instance because i don't have permissions over /web 00:52:04 how can i create permissions for nsadmin over /web? 00:52:39 chown nsadmin.web /web 00:54:14 or if you don't want nsadmin to own everything under web, create a directory under that, say openacs and chown that. 00:57:16 i'm havin' issues 00:57:38 talli. do you have any linux books? 00:57:46 not here 00:57:49 ah :) 00:57:52 i'll have to get them from the office 00:58:11 so that won't help. 00:58:26 does anyone use acs-groups heavily? 00:58:38 not me. i think dotlrn uses it. 01:02:06 denshi: do you have a specific task? or just want general understanding of it? 01:02:22 I'm writing an event management system 01:02:29 ah, ok. 01:02:35 people come in groups, right? 01:02:44 or course. 01:02:55 and there are distinct types of groups... 01:03:07 yes. 01:03:26 so I can define group type for each one of those and create attributes for each type 01:04:35 yes. 01:04:40 now, when people interact with this system, do you think the primary table supporting the interface should be acs_groups, and that the pages should be generic and driven by attributes-of-types? 01:05:09 so I'm wondering if there is some functionality to autobuild group-filling pages 01:05:27 denshi: i know that furfly is writing an event management system for dotlrn 01:05:33 i don't klnow what the status of it is 01:05:42 except that it was supposed to be done RSN 01:07:14 denshi: i don't see how that would work. must be beyond my thinking skills now. I would expect a system that was based on the type of event. 01:07:28 ignore the event for now 01:07:38 think about the type of group 01:08:11 ok. 01:08:50 so I would get a different displ;ay depending on what type of user I am? 01:09:04 that seems like a good idea. 01:09:06 yes 01:09:55 i think the designers envisioned it more as a permissioning kind of group thing. 01:12:35 well, the actual 'add group' pages do what I'm talking about 01:12:45 I'm just wondering if anyone has broken that out and generalized it 01:16:20 * denshi searches Gnutella for Duke Ellington and wonders why jazz fans don't make bootleg concert recordings 01:57:57 denshi that's a seriously philosophical question 01:58:07 in my experience, people do make bootlegs 01:58:14 but they ask the performers before recording it 01:58:33 and putting them online for free would be a disrespect 01:59:02 oh, and i don't know how many people had access to microcassettes in the 30's and 40's 02:00:07 good night 02:00:15 later davb 02:00:17 thanks for the help 02:00:22 also, i think i found my problem 02:00:24 we will tackly the horrendous admin UI in the morning. 02:00:31 talli: no problem, and cool. 02:00:41 i seem to have forgotten to create an nsadmin group :( 02:00:46 oops. 02:01:10 davb is now known as davb-sleep 02:04:07 denshi: how can i find out who is in a partcular group? 02:04:13 pray 02:04:16 no, really 02:04:21 I wish I was kidding 02:04:41 okay, I'll have to find out pretty soon 02:04:52 how shall we attack this problem? admin ui or psql? 02:04:54 sorry, i meant in linux 02:04:57 oh 02:05:02 cat /etc/groups 02:05:03 from bash 02:05:06 ah, thanks 02:05:17 I don't know the grp commands off the top of my head 02:05:26 but they exist to do that 02:05:56 this is what i'm trying to do 02:05:57 web:x:407: 02:05:59 talhome root # userdel 407 02:06:00 userdel: user 407 does not exist 02:06:02 i wnat to delete the web group 02:06:12 but i can't seem to do it because of user 407 02:06:16 who does not exist 02:07:12 hmmm 02:07:32 just edit /etc/groups and remove the line 02:08:16 or use groupdel 02:10:00 ok 02:10:43 paje, seen rbm? 02:10:43 rbm was last seen on #openacs 1 hours, 40 minutes and 59 seconds ago, saying: It's a master card, and they'll often (every 6 months or so) offer you a new card. I've found out accidentally that if you accept that card, you can later just ask them to merge both accounts, and voila, your credit line is increased. [Sun Jun 16 19:29:56 2002] 02:10:59 anyone know about rbm's Paypal service contract? 02:12:21 paje? 02:12:21 yes, denshi? 02:12:34 paje, get some coffee 02:12:34 denshi: what? 02:21:43 denshi: can i ask you an install querstion? 02:21:47 question 02:21:47 i heard question was how does it feel to be a sex symbol? 02:22:06 well, paje, why don't you ask me when you're older 02:22:34 as user nsadmin i'm trying to untar the openacs tarball in /web 02:23:02 i've chown'ed /web for both nsadmin.web and nsadmin.nsadmin 02:23:11 however, when untarring it i get the following message 02:23:13 nsadmin@talhome web $ tar xvzf /tmp/openacs-4-5-release.tgz 02:23:15 tar (child): /tmp/openacs-4-5-release.tgz: Cannot open: Permission denied 02:23:16 tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now 02:23:18 tar: Child returned status 2 02:23:19 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors 02:27:14 denshi: you there? 02:27:21 barely 02:27:35 give me the output for 02:27:44 'ls -l /', please 02:28:04 wait, what am I saying? 02:28:31 the file /tmp/openacs-4-5-release.tgz doesn't have read privs for nsadmin 02:28:44 give me 'ls -l /tmp/openacs-4-5-release.tgz' 02:29:25 sh-2.05a$ ls -l /tmp/openacs-4-5-release.tgz 02:29:26 -rw------- 1 talli users 7466849 Jun 16 19:08 /tmp/openacs-4-5-release.tgz 02:29:58 hmmm... i guess nsadmin can't touch it 02:30:07 hammer, break it down 02:33:59 denshi: mme thinks i got ite think 02:34:01 thanks 02:34:35 woo hoo! me gots it! 02:36:24 all we need now is a big pile of money 02:54:21 ok, so where do we download apms? 02:56:47 namely, general comments 03:00:42 anyone around? 03:04:45 no :) 03:04:57 Someone is going to give me a big pile of money? 03:05:14 hey mbr 03:05:17 maybe you can help me 03:05:26 how do i get a package isntalled on a fresh OACS install? 03:05:34 i want to get general comments in there 03:05:40 but i can't find the apms 03:05:59 and i can't figure out how to load general comments from the /web/birdnotes/packages directory 03:06:08 can anyone answer this question this eve? 03:08:00 denshi: you still there? 03:08:03 rbm: you around? 03:08:08 i need some serious newbie help 03:08:25 yes, but I don't listen unless my irc client beeps at me 03:08:42 so you've got focus. shoot 03:08:58 how do i get general comments installed on a fresh oacs install? 03:09:08 everything's good 03:09:10 it's all alive 03:09:21 but now i'm just trying to figure out how to get general comments in there 03:09:52 where do i download an apm? or, alternatively, how do i get the general comments in /web/birdnotes/packages/general-comments installed? 03:09:55 go to site-map 03:10:12 wait, no, belay that 03:10:26 ok 03:10:29 hmmm 03:10:31 it's been a while 03:10:36 go to /acs-admin and then to ACS Package Manager 03:10:38 general comments isnt't installed 03:10:40 ok 03:10:54 yeah, you need to do what denshi said 03:10:57 yeah, i've been there 03:11:00 then I think you need to mount it? 03:11:00 smack the 'Install packages' link at the bottom 03:11:03 but i don't know where to get teh apm 03:11:10 ok 03:11:11 It should be in CVS? 03:11:19 wasn't it included with the release tarball? 03:11:25 not the apm 03:11:41 maybe i do have to much around cvs 03:11:54 just humor me and go to 'Install Packages' 03:12:20 as an aside, has anyone installed OACS4-ready aolserver on FreeBSD? 03:12:57 no 03:13:05 i did go to install packages 03:13:11 perhaps the apms are in teh nightly tarball? 03:13:38 is there an aolserver that is built for freebsd? 03:13:43 is that the one gilbert did? 03:16:44 * mbr raises his hand 03:17:05 I installed OACS4 on BSD like 9 months ago 03:17:23 I wonder if Dave has a log for that 03:17:44 One thing I do remember is having to hack some C files to enable some things 03:18:56 * denshi swears 03:19:04 is there a binary anywhere? 03:24:44 paje, seen rbm 03:24:44 rbm was last seen on #openacs 2 hours, 55 minutes and 0 seconds ago, saying: It's a master card, and they'll often (every 6 months or so) offer you a new card. I've found out accidentally that if you accept that card, you can later just ask them to merge both accounts, and voila, your credit line is increased. [Sun Jun 16 19:29:56 2002] 03:25:12 how do we access the oacs cvs files? 03:26:17 Hmmm 03:26:29 let's see if ssh still works 03:26:54 nope, ssh is off on that box 03:28:12 talli did you try this: http://openacs.org/doc/openacs-4/openacs.html 03:28:47 yeah 03:28:56 i got the apm from ybos' website 03:29:01 k 03:29:11 you don't need the cvs info anymore then? 03:34:39 damn 03:34:44 i do need that info 03:34:46 sorry 03:38:25 friggin' A! i got it to work! 03:38:30 total hacks necessary, though 03:38:43 and i only got it to work because i had access to other tools 03:38:43 excellent 03:38:50 access to other sites, that is 03:38:56 anyway, this is a good learning experience 03:38:58 mbr, he called you a tool 03:39:08 will have to discuss it with rbm and davb-sleep tomorrow, re: docs 03:39:22 I'm no further on finding a binary package of oacs4.5 aolserver 03:41:25 http://www.openacs.org/software.adp 03:41:25 B: http://www.openacs.org/software.adp from talli 03:41:41 B: Place to find software for OACS 03:41:41 added comment B1 03:41:48 uptime.openacs.org 03:42:57 denshi: http://www.orchardlabs.com/freebsd/ 03:43:56 whoa. the elusive Gilbert 03:44:41 i must admit 03:44:48 installing the oacs was a massive PITA 03:45:09 maybe i'm just a wus 03:45:15 well, i am certainly a wuss 03:45:22 but there's got to be a better way of doing that 03:46:24 anyone else know Gilbert? 03:46:28 Wong, I mean 03:46:36 who runs this orchardlabs 03:54:46 a wise sentense on slashdot 03:54:51 "Hey, a badly-reasoned ill-informed load of Ayn Rand bullshit posted on Slashdot by a complete nobody in Butt-Phuck, Nebraska, is good enough to get moderated up to +5, Informative -- so it must be true!!" 03:55:22 orchard labs is run by gilbert, who seems to have many different talents 03:58:37 oom? 03:59:47 denshi: My paypal service contract is coming along. I'm almost done with it. Had to make some decisions as to how to best integrate it with the e-commerce package and the ACS Service Contract framework 04:01:17 rbm: i got oacs installed! 04:01:23 oof. what a pain, thogh 04:48:06 talli: Yeah, it'd be cool to have RPMs 04:48:32 Installing OACS itself is not too bad. It's compiling all the aolserver stuff that takes most time, /me thinks 04:53:12 73lab.com has some pretty cool Linux/GNU art 04:54:55 * rbm goes to watch Mexico and USA 07:12:58 radam (~radam@ipd-gwy01.meridiantelekoms.com) has joined #openacs 07:13:55 radam has quit (Client Quit) 09:42:47 davb-sleep is now known as davb 09:52:44 hi radam, still around? 09:53:37 * davb thinks part of talli's problem is linux sysadmin related... 10:08:26 bbl 10:08:27 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 11:27:10 davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 11:30:05 hi 11:30:05 hello, davb 11:32:23 larspind (~none@213.237.67.169.adsl.by.worldonline.dk) has joined #openacs 11:32:55 hi lars 11:34:02 Hi 11:34:03 hola, larspind 11:45:34 hey guys 11:45:46 davb: my issues were certainly linux sysadmin ones 11:45:52 but i also had an issue loading packages 11:46:23 when i finally got everything installed, the packages in /web/whatever/packages were not available to be installed 11:46:27 but more on that later 11:46:30 gotta head out now 11:52:53 ok. 11:54:31 talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:04:19 hello lars 12:12:02 markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-195.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 12:16:48 bork! 12:27:00 densi! 12:27:01 paje! 12:27:09 er, densHi 12:40:06 bark! 12:40:06 lars, rbm and I are planning on going through the admin UI soon and cleaning it up as much as we can. 12:40:11 i mean morning 12:41:14 late for court 12:41:17 check ya laterz 12:43:55 the people's court 12:50:49 125 * 5 12:50:49 cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs 12:50:52 125 * 5.0 12:50:52 625 12:56:37 oom 12:58:41 davb, admin UI: COOL! :-) 12:59:59 larspind: We should have done this a long time ago 13:00:11 Yes, I agree. 13:00:26 I actually have some ideas in that regard (not surprisingly) 13:00:36 I'm going to finish this AOLserver 3.3ad13 Debian package, then jump into that 13:00:59 larspind: I'd love to hear them. Let's put these ideas in a quick doc so we don't lose it. 13:01:06 BTW, Brazil is in the quarter finals 13:01:40 larspind: Brazil will play England next, so perhaps we can revenge Denmark :) 13:02:13 that was my idea. lets get down the basic concepts we are working towards, and perhaps solicit ideas from the community, and possibly volunteers, especially for testing. 13:02:46 davb: Yeah, but it has to be a quick process, like a couple days max, so we don't lose momentum. 13:03:19 sure. more of a tell everyone what we are doing, and then do it. don't wait, but if someone has a good idea, incorporate it. 13:04:28 right 13:04:44 i might be in and out, so I'll try to keep up with the conversation, but don't worry if I don't respond right away. 13:05:32 Sounds like a great plan. 13:05:57 My thinking was a bit more long-term, but there's definitely a lot of low-hanging fruit to collect. 13:07:52