00:23:59 <davb> http://jongriffin.com/static/openacs/OpenACS-documentation
00:24:00 <oacs-chump> A: http://jongriffin.com/static/openacs/OpenACS-documentation from davb
00:49:58 <davb> davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
01:09:29 <rbm> oom
01:25:09 <denshi> this just in: ultimate frisbee is harder than it looks
02:20:20 <paje> paje (~paje@slxwy.dorms.usu.edu) has joined #openacs
02:52:35 <talli> talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
02:57:54 <rbm> paje: again!
02:57:54 <paje> * paje spanks talli
03:01:50 <denshi> paje: again!
03:01:50 <paje> * paje spanks talli
03:03:26 <talli> hey guys
03:06:53 <rbm> hey talli
03:07:11 <talli> how's it going?
03:10:50 <rbm> allright. Writing a service-contract for PayPal payments
03:12:12 <talli> very cool
03:12:18 <talli> is it hard to write service contracts?
03:14:27 <rbm> No. It's a neat thing. It took me a couple times reading the docs to get it, but after I got it, it was a "aha!" moment
03:17:38 <talli> neat
03:22:53 <talli> btw, lyx really is cool
03:23:06 <rbm> It is. I really like it.
03:23:24 <talli> it's probably my word processor of choice now
03:23:42 <talli> whenever i open word or OO i feel overcome by bloat
03:24:15 <talli> although i am eager to try and use some of the OSX native word processors
03:24:52 <talli> i imagine Aqua's built in PDF processing capabilities can help me in some of the things that i am doing.
03:26:35 <rbm> Oh, acqua has built-in PDF?
03:26:49 <talli> yes, everything is built around generating PDFs
03:27:13 <rbm> good for Adobe :)
03:28:13 <mbr> werd up g-homie smack
03:29:26 <talli> http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/macos-x-gui/macos-x-gui-4.html
03:29:26 <oacs-chump> B: http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/macos-x-gui/macos-x-gui-4.html from talli
03:29:53 <talli> B: Quartz does not use Postscript as its internal graphics representation language. Instead, it uses Adobe's Portable Document Format (PDF) standard which is a superset of Adobe Postscript. PDF has several advantages over Postscript, including better color management, internal compression, font independence, and interactivity. (Check out the PDF specs for more information.) PDF is also is a free and open standard, which saves A
03:29:53 <oacs-chump> added comment B1
03:30:17 <mbr> * mbr bites talli 
03:30:37 <talli> * talli pisses on mbr
03:30:46 <mbr> hmmm
03:30:49 <mbr> I've been tagged
03:31:02 <mbr> * mbr drinks lots and lots of beer
03:34:48 <denshi> man, this channel is going to the dogs.  or the bots, rather.
03:35:21 <talli> * talli oils his hinges
03:35:27 <talli> ok, i go to bed now
03:35:39 <talli> err, i go to suspend mode now
03:35:46 <denshi> have fun
03:36:19 <talli> see ya guys
03:36:22 <talli> talli has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0rc3/20020602]")
03:38:58 <hazmat> paje: seen talli
03:38:59 <paje> talli was last seen on #openacs 2 minutes and 39 seconds ago, saying: see ya guys [Wed Jun  5 22:38:46 2002]
03:41:23 <mbr> ll
03:41:31 <mbr> * mbr causes ruckus
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11:34:26 <davb> davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
11:34:33 <davb> hi there
11:34:33 <paje> niihau, davb
11:34:39 <davb> wb paje
11:36:27 <mbr> niihau dave
11:37:28 <davb> howdy mbr
11:37:37 <davb> did you get a nice storm last night?
11:37:57 <mbr> yeah but I was so drunk I slept right through it
11:40:36 <davb> good plan
11:40:52 <davb> my alarm in my car kept going off for the thunder
11:44:23 <mbr> hehe
11:45:23 <pascal> pascal (~pascal@facb-167-233.pc.fgg.eur.nl) has joined #openacs
11:47:05 <davb> hi pascal
11:47:22 <pascal> hi
11:48:11 <pascal> 'thought i'd drop by to see who's here.
11:50:21 <mbr> ok time to do some work
11:50:22 <mbr> bbl
11:50:58 <davb> it's a little early for many of the regulars.
11:51:38 <pascal> most of those still in the .us?
11:52:49 <davb> yes.
11:53:25 <pascal> how is 4.x comming along? I haven't looked for ages
11:53:31 <davb> We need some more publicity. Possibly on openacs.org 4.5
11:53:44 <davb> it is pretty much done, but Don is too busy to actually make a release.
11:53:46 <pascal> been too busy with my 3.2.5 based system
11:54:25 <davb> Time to upgrade :)
11:54:40 <pascal> nice. We're going to hire someone new here, I hope I have time then to redo my work for 4.5
11:54:58 <pascal> It'
11:55:19 <davb> OpenACS is still missing a few little pieces, but ecommerce was just released. Alot of people have been using it for real work. Which of course leaves less time to hack the actual toolkit.
11:55:44 <pascal> I am most concerned with core features like CR and possibly workflow.
11:56:26 <davb> CR is in good shape. very little has changed. Workflow works, but could use some refining.
11:56:55 <davb> Also 4.5 has a real search for postgresql.
11:56:55 <pascal> I'll have to see, it all depends on the amount of time we have. 
11:57:23 <davb> of course.
11:57:48 <pascal> Search is good, that would be a selling point for us here. 
11:58:11 <pascal> What have you been working on?
11:58:25 <davb> Porting, my personal site mostly.
11:58:56 <davb> Now I am helping out with greenpeace.org.
11:59:30 <pascal> My personal site is also still 3.2.5 (obviously), but is probably still simple enough to port to 4.5
11:59:37 <davb> you can check out the search here: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/search/
11:59:40 <pascal> greenpeace. nice.
12:00:01 <davb> its a cool project. I am playing a very small part, but it is an excellent learning opportunity.
12:00:16 <pascal> kaboom.
12:00:24 <pascal> check your error log ;)
12:00:31 <davb> this query works: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/search/search?q=pascal
12:00:38 <davb> i have some bad data in the index.
12:00:44 <pascal> search term: something
12:01:21 <pascal> Sheesh, who did the google-snatching ? :)))
12:01:35 <davb> neophytos set up the default templates that way.
12:02:02 <pascal> neat
12:02:34 <pascal> How do you register tables with the search and then to the UI pages?
12:02:46 <davb> it uses acs-service contract
12:03:05 <pascal> ah. that's a new one for me
12:03:09 <davb> you just need to register a couple of tcl procs to provide the content and url of your content type.
12:03:19 <davb> its a new system to hook together packages.
12:03:46 <davb> weird.
12:03:49 <pascal> and each record (object?) has a content type+handler... right?
12:04:36 <davb> yes. each content type needs its own implementation. the CR makes it easy to hook in new content types.
12:05:46 <pascal> I think I'll go check it out somewhen soon. There are somethings I'd like to do with my site that are sort of hard with 3.2.5
12:06:02 <pascal> like subsite and domain-vhosting.
12:06:16 <davb> that works pretty well.
12:06:57 <davb> openacs 4.6 will probably be alot better than 4.5. we are getting new spam/bulk-mail and a new bboard package.
12:07:30 <pascal> How 'bout upgrading, can you bring your users and their messages and comments?
12:07:49 <pascal> yes, but I am not going to wait forever with upgrading :)
12:08:01 <davb> bboard we have a script. i think there must be one for users also. we will be migrating openacs.org of course, so there have to be scripts.
12:08:47 <pascal> Is musea still doing the new site?
12:09:42 <davb> they are kinda busy. looking for help. I was going to work on it, but this other job came up.
12:10:29 <pascal> Greenpeace?
12:11:05 <davb> yes. plus I am working a "regular" job too. not quite ready to jump into consulting full time.
12:12:17 <pascal> can imagine, I am pretty comfortable working for the University
12:12:49 <davb> eventually I might convince this job to use openacs for a web site or intranet.
12:13:52 <pascal> I just pushed it down their throats, so to speak :)
12:14:49 <davb> we have a little ways to go. we are all windows right now.
12:15:15 <pascal> it was the only viable solution to make something that works, and quickly. I wasn't about to waste three months to learn their proprietary database and their 4gl tools
12:15:33 <davb> right
12:15:35 <pascal> It's all windows here too, except for me.
12:16:10 <pascal> The only supported windows is win 9x, they're still not ready for win2k
12:16:43 <davb> scary. we are going to 2000/XP
12:17:49 <pascal> indeed. But I replaced allmost all the 9x boxen with 2000 boxes, 
12:18:05 <davb> ah
12:18:26 <pascal> most of them are happy with the slight limitations in the use of network software, and appreciate the increased stability.
12:18:55 <davb> it is a big difference in stability.
12:19:02 <pascal> ur kiddin.
12:19:21 <davb> between 98 and 2000?
12:19:21 <pascal> pascal is now known as pascal_afk
12:19:33 <davb> really, its much better. not great, just better.
12:22:23 <pascal_afk> pascal_afk is now known as pascal
12:22:53 <pascal> well, office doesn't seem to kill as many documents as previously :)
12:23:35 <pascal> What never ceases to amaze me is the randomness in startup times
12:23:54 <davb> I am trying to delete the offending page to get that search working.
12:27:39 <davb> argh
12:28:06 <davb> darn, static-pages seems to be breaking on my system, so it is not removing the pages that don't exist anymore.
12:34:28 <davb> oops. i think i found a bug.
12:35:05 <pascal> no, that's not 'oop's' that's good. 
12:37:27 <davb> hmmm, i think all the static page folders in my database are recorded incorrectly.
12:38:45 <davb> it seemed to work before.
13:08:13 <cro> cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs
13:27:08 <davb> ok, i think that is fixed, but not sure what the bug is.
13:33:20 <davb> the weird part is, according to my analysis, it never should have worked in the first place.
13:33:54 <pascal> :)
13:34:02 <pascal> I have that all the time :)
13:34:22 <pascal> Are you sure the code wasn't changed behind your back?
13:34:56 <davb> I checked the CVS
13:35:03 <davb> I am supposedly the maintainer also.
13:35:11 <davb> but I am trying to pawn it off on someone else.
13:35:25 <davb> :)
13:35:45 <pascal> Oh, and debugging trips me up all the time.
13:35:45 <davb> wow, I have alot of static pages.
13:36:11 <pascal> I hand insert a couple of entries to kiockstart something, and then the init code doesn't get checked or something
13:38:49 <davb> oh boy! another error.
13:45:59 <davb> arhgarghargh
13:46:07 <davb> the content item i deleted has mysteriously returned.
13:46:13 <davb> ow, my head hurts.
13:48:40 <davb> I'll have to fix this later.
13:58:56 <rbm> wow, pascal is here again!
13:59:03 <pascal> :)
13:59:39 <davb> hi rbm
13:59:49 <pascal> * pascal feels welcome
14:00:05 <rbm> hi davb
14:00:09 <rbm> welcome back pascal
14:00:28 <pascal> How are you?
14:00:59 <rbm> Pretty good.
14:01:03 <rbm> Had a terrible night with a toothache. My wisdom tooth decided to wake up.
14:01:34 <rbm> I hadn't felt toothache in ages, and had forgotten how it is. I wanted somebody to knock me out, seriously
14:01:34 <pascal> don't have them anymore. Good riddance to them.
14:02:01 <rbm> It costs $170 to take out each tooth here. Good grief.
14:02:08 <pascal> ouch! 
14:02:30 <pascal> My insurance covers it, luckily
14:03:04 <rbm> I have dental insurance, but I think my plan doesn't cover it :(
14:03:45 <pascal> bummer
14:05:00 <davb> rbm: that is unfun.
14:07:00 <rbm> no kidding
14:07:10 <rbm> Oh, 9 AM. finally can call the dentist
14:08:37 <pascal> Okay, gotta go again. 
14:08:55 <pascal> pascal has quit ("Client Exiting")
14:11:25 <rbm> Everytime I'm saving money to upgrade my computer something like this happens. Guess I'm stuck on my K6-2 :)
14:29:31 <talli> talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-234-57.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs
14:29:50 <talli> hello, is anyone using mozilla 1.0 yet?
14:30:51 <talli> talli has quit (Client Quit)
14:32:37 <davb> talli: yes
14:32:46 <davb> oops, i guess you are not
14:32:52 <davb> :)
14:45:49 <rbm> I need to upgrade my personal site to OACS 4.5
14:45:58 <davb> yes. do it now!
14:46:00 <davb> :)
14:46:13 <davb> I am creating an ugly mess of vba code.
14:46:31 <davb> i think i need to refactor this.
14:50:39 <davb> aha.
14:50:45 <davb> the answer is 3-value logic.
14:50:57 <davb> the question is, does access support it?
14:51:15 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625176-26.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs
14:51:47 <denshi> ooom
14:52:40 <rbm> davb: I think so.
14:52:52 <davb> hi denshi.
14:52:58 <davb> me too, i'm testing.
14:53:08 <rbm> hi denshi
14:53:27 <denshi> rbm: i was reading the bboard, and followed the logical line of googling and found out you did the php/aolserver work
14:53:32 <denshi> where is that now?
14:54:10 <davb> ops
14:54:10 <rbm> denshi: In my hard drive
14:54:16 <davb> infinite loop
14:54:19 <denshi> at least it's not in rolf's pants
14:54:44 <rbm> Recently I'd been doing PHP/Apache work
14:55:27 <rbm> I hear PHP is more stable under AOLserver now. It used to be pretty frisky.
14:55:59 <rbm> Supposedly their db pooling management got better in their latest release too. It was crappy before.
14:56:10 <davb> frisky is an interesting adjective for software.
14:56:11 <denshi> I read a bit of the imp notes.  it looks like PHP tries to do all the concurrency control within php
14:56:55 <rbm> They had _real_ persistant connections. Meaning you'd open a persistant connection but it'd never get reused. In my tests with 2 users pounding the machine with a few requests, in a couple minutes I had 50+ connections to PostgreSQL. 
14:57:04 <denshi> hahaha
14:58:12 <denshi> i noticed that they don't even emit a statement cancel message to the DB when the page finishes with a connection
14:58:50 <rbm> PHP or IMP?
14:58:55 <denshi> PHP
14:59:08 <denshi> it's a known bug with pconnect
14:59:09 <rbm> Yeah, it's brain dead to say the least
14:59:15 <denshi> why they didn't fix it is beyond me
14:59:21 <denshi> it's like COBOL for the web!
14:59:46 <rbm> Because MySQL executes queries at the speed of light, so there's no need to, and everybody should use MySQL anyways.
14:59:52 <denshi> ooh, loggy's back
14:59:57 <denshi> heh
15:00:31 <denshi> and we can magically make concurrency problems go away, too
15:00:50 <denshi> I think you need to load the IWantAPony module for that
15:00:51 <rbm> Of course. LOCK TABLE is your friend. Solves all concurrency problems.
15:01:11 <denshi> I've found LOCK USER ATTENTION SPAN to be most useful
15:01:18 <rbm> :)
15:02:10 <denshi> * denshi issues UNLOCK BAGEL
16:00:24 <rbm> anyone have examples of sql*loader usage?
16:04:28 <davb> nope
16:07:02 <rbm> where bagel is the control file right?
16:07:53 <rbm> sqlload has no --help. Is taht dumb or what?
16:08:01 <rbm> I'm going through its docs now
16:08:14 <rbm> http://oradoc.photo.net/ora81/DOC/server.815/a67792/ch03.htm#11630
16:08:14 <oacs-chump> C: http://oradoc.photo.net/ora81/DOC/server.815/a67792/ch03.htm#11630 from rbm
16:08:17 <rbm> aack
16:08:27 <rbm> C:| SQL*Loader docs
16:08:27 <oacs-chump> titled item C
16:09:41 <denshi> http://download-west.oracle.com/otndoc/oracle9i/901_doc/server.901/a90192/apa.htm
16:09:41 <oacs-chump> D: http://download-west.oracle.com/otndoc/oracle9i/901_doc/server.901/a90192/apa.htm from denshi
16:10:02 <denshi> D: SQL*Loader syntax diagrams
16:10:02 <oacs-chump> added comment D1
16:11:25 <davb> are there any docs for db_multirow?
16:13:36 <davb> found it.
16:18:38 <rbm> Can I load table definitions through sqlloader too?
16:23:20 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #openacs
16:25:16 <denshi> paje, after him!
16:25:17 <paje> denshi: i'm not following you...
16:25:25 <denshi> paje, no, not me, aaron!
16:25:25 <paje> denshi: what?
16:25:39 <denshi> * denshi smacks paje and takes his botsmack bong
16:26:48 <rbm> wow,  you can do a lot of stuff with sqlloader
16:28:22 <rbm> The sqlloader case studies cover a lot of cases, but not how to load different data into different tables in one file
16:34:40 <cce_> cce_ (~chatzilla@209-9-30-69.sdsl.cais.net) has joined #openacs
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17:01:55 <rbm> Ugh! There's not setval for sequences in Oracle?
17:03:36 <rbm> Can you do multiple-row insertion in oracle?
17:03:45 <rbm> paje: where's everybody?
17:03:45 <paje> wish i knew, rbm
17:03:55 <rbm> paje: dance!
17:03:55 <paje> * paje shakes his booties
17:05:09 <davb> i'm here, but no oracle guru
17:10:05 <mbr> :)
17:10:27 <denshi> rbm: dance!
17:10:36 <mbr> * mbr moonwalks
17:11:04 <denshi> excuse me, the symmetry in this group is giving me vertigo
17:11:05 <paje> denshi: secretary plugged hairdryer into UPS
17:11:19 <denshi> paje, too, I guess
17:11:19 <paje> denshi: sorry...
17:11:25 <denshi> np, paje
17:11:25 <paje> denshi: what?
17:11:31 <denshi> paje, botsnack
17:11:31 <paje> thanks denshi :)
17:15:09 <mbr> i have more access in this building than my boss
17:15:12 <mbr> interesting
17:25:41 <mbr> paje, weather KISP
17:26:11 <mbr> heh
17:26:17 <mbr> Did you all know paje lives in a dorm?
17:27:59 <davb> brb
17:28:02 <davb> davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
17:28:27 <davb> davb (~chatzilla@24.97.22.204) has joined #openacs
17:34:26 <mbr> hey davb 
17:34:55 <davb> yes?
17:35:30 <mbr> * mbr kicks dave
17:35:34 <mbr> just saying hi
17:37:29 <davb> ok.
18:27:19 <davb> davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:27:43 <davb> davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
18:32:56 <davb> http://bitboost.com/pawsense/
18:32:56 <oacs-chump> E: http://bitboost.com/pawsense/ from davb
18:33:00 <davb> E:|Pawsense
18:33:00 <oacs-chump> titled item E
18:33:16 <davb> E: detects attempted feline infiltration of your computer
18:33:16 <oacs-chump> added comment E1
18:36:28 <davb> E: they are working on babysense also
18:36:28 <oacs-chump> added comment E2
18:38:10 <cro> davb: you have a cat?
18:38:20 <davb> 2
18:38:53 <davb> E: sorry, windows only
18:38:53 <oacs-chump> added comment E3
18:44:03 <davb> bbl
18:44:04 <davb> davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.7 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0/20020530]")
20:27:23 <davb> davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
20:29:58 <davb> interesting stuff is happening with openacs
20:30:09 <cro> really?
20:30:21 <davb> using the templating engine to produce output for email is kinda cool.
20:30:35 <cro> Oh yeah, that was a cool application
20:30:50 <davb> that using [incr tcl] for code generation sounds neat too.
20:32:27 <davb> brb
20:32:29 <davb> davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
20:40:17 <rbm> ooom
20:40:23 <rbm> * rbm ish here (with a huge mouth)
20:42:29 <davb> davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-162-222.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
20:47:42 <denshi> mooo
20:47:54 <davb> woof
20:49:00 <denshi> there's no call for that kind of language, davb
20:49:09 <davb> oh, sorry
20:51:49 <rbm> hey davb
20:52:50 <davb> howdy
20:57:19 <rbm> * rbm ish here buth noth alking bery well
21:03:37 <denshi> paje, take the bottle away from rbm
21:03:37 <paje> denshi: i'm not following you...
21:05:40 <rbm> paje: tell denshi that I just had my wisdom tooth extracted
21:05:40 <paje> rbm: excuse me?
21:05:45 <rbm> paje: excuse
21:05:45 <paje> rbm: HTTPD Error 4004 : very old Intel cpu - insufficient processing power
21:06:09 <denshi> in that case, paje, give rbm a bigger bottle
21:06:13 <rbm> :-)
21:06:26 <denshi> shoo.  go back to bed
21:09:15 <rbm> * rbm wishes he could just play a game for an hour or so
21:32:32 <cro> cro has quit ("Have a good evening all.")
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23:06:19 <davb> dreamweaver mx is shipping
23:29:28 <lethedrinker> paje: seen talli
23:29:28 <paje> talli was last seen on #openacs 8 hours, 59 minutes and 43 seconds ago, saying: hello, is anyone using mozilla 1.0 yet? [Thu Jun  6 09:32:10 2002]
23:48:33 <rbm> * rbm reboots into his new kernel
23:48:47 <paje> paje has quit ("regrouping; bbiab")
23:49:45 <davb> mmmmmmmm kernels