00:06:15 argh ... openfts and debian are not friends 00:06:22 :-( 00:10:17 ah, just found nextsteps.html on openacs.org. hmm, unary error remains 00:47:25 openfts and debian not friends? license? 00:47:46 no, the configure script needs a lot of hand editing 00:48:17 maybe this is only with postgresql 7.2 as debian package 00:48:37 which is the woody version? 00:48:43 have you installed openfts? 00:48:57 woody ... don't know 00:49:00 I don't remember... 00:49:15 I might have, but I compile everything 00:50:46 i'm using unstable. yeah, compiling is better propably 00:51:12 (one of debian's relative strong points is their toolchain works due to the package deps among toolchain pieces: it's hard to install conflicting pieces of the toolchain) 00:54:15 seen benadida 00:54:15 benadida was last seen on #openacs 86 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: talk to you later [Sun Feb 24 19:23:42 2002] 00:54:30 -that- long?? 00:54:50 can't be... I thought I saw him here about a week and a half ago 00:54:51 seen ben 00:54:52 I haven't seen 'ben', til 00:55:03 paje might have been gone last time he appeared 00:55:03 markd2: what? 00:55:11 seen thursdayphylax? 00:55:12 thursdayphylax was last seen on #openacs 19 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes and 38 seconds ago, saying: aren't I behind the times [Fri May 3 12:51:31 2002] 00:55:13 true 00:55:19 seen wednesdayphylax? 00:55:20 wednesdayphylax was last seen on #openacs 21 days, 42 minutes and 0 seconds ago, saying: hi paje [Wed May 1 18:14:17 2002] 00:55:28 seen sundayphylax? 00:55:28 I haven't seen 'sundayphylax', markd2 00:55:49 seen footballphylax 00:55:49 somebody twack me to package openfts/nsopenssl/other-aolserver-modules for Debian 00:55:49 I haven't seen 'footballphylax', jim2 00:56:17 rbm: you got in? :) 00:56:28 til: yes, pdflib is proprietary (for commercial purposes) 00:56:40 I mean, it costs money for commercial purposes 00:57:01 jim2: Not yet. I have the T&S test in my indox but haven't had time to reply to it yet. 00:57:24 jim2: we should start working on OpenACS packages 00:57:31 ok 00:57:56 * jim2 is looking at dotlrn... 00:58:10 had to find an oracle I still had up 00:58:25 * til twacks rbm to package openfts/nsopenssl/other-aolserver-modules 00:58:46 thanks til. I was needing that. 00:59:12 arjunsanyal (~arjun@pool-151-202-175-216.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 01:00:09 woot! arjun is here! 01:00:23 hi 01:00:23 hi, arjunsanyal 01:01:04 hey arjun. what's up? 01:01:43 jim2: Is it okay to discuss what I'm thinking to answer to my T&S test? 01:02:18 yes... as long as it's ok for me to decide how I will respond :) 01:02:29 :) 01:02:39 hey rbm, not much just relaxing 01:02:48 any chance you could send me a copy? 01:03:27 jim2: of the e-mail? Sure. 01:03:36 jim@laney.edu 01:04:01 I need coffee and a coupla other things 01:06:08 rbm: did you graduate? 01:06:18 argh. my dotlrn is having problems... I got AOLserver/3.3.1+ad13, oracle-8.1.6 and openacs/dotlrn from CVS on may 16th in the late evening... 01:06:33 jim2: I'm your man 01:06:46 what's the error? 01:06:46 rumour has it the error is generated by the browser 01:06:47 exellent :) 01:07:37 I'm looking at a Subject... 01:07:45 I say New Class... 01:07:47 arjunsanyal: I did. 01:07:59 rbm: congrats! 01:08:06 arjunsanyal: Thanks :) 01:08:59 I'm doing "subjects" as name of the course, and "classes" are sections of classes... so: subject=java programmming, class=section 1 01:09:02 no problem 01:09:14 "New Class" again 01:09:20 I want section 2 01:09:56 ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-00001: unique constraint (DOTLRN.CR_ITEMS_UNIQUE_NAME) violated 01:09:56 ORA-06512: at "DOTLRN.CONTENT_ITEM", line 161 01:09:56 ORA-06512: at "DOTLRN.CONTENT_FOLDER", line 34 01:09:56 ORA-06512: at "DOTLRN.FILE_STORAGE", line 85 01:09:56 ORA-06512: at line 3 01:10:31 jim2: seen it. hold 01:10:31 I haven't seen 'it.', arjunsanyal 01:10:57 jim2: sent. 01:11:01 thanks :) 01:11:06 going for coffee... 01:11:18 and there's more problems, stick around :) 01:11:33 jim2: ok 01:11:42 arjunsanyal: I don't have a real job, so I don't know if I'm really happy that I graduated. 01:12:15 (I didn't look very hard though, since I was thinking of going on to graduate school) 01:12:55 paje: my dotlrn? 01:12:55 rbm: bugger all, i dunno 01:13:00 paje: dotlrn? 01:13:00 well, dotlrn is running on davb's machine again, and not crashing if you want to look around. 01:13:00 rbm: after i graduated i took it easy for a long time.... until december. before i got a job 01:14:31 rbm: sucks 01:14:56 rbm: where are you from? 01:14:59 Brazil 01:17:43 wohoo, search finally works! 01:19:43 yay 01:19:58 I haven't done anything with openfts yet. 01:20:07 I need to if I want to package it. 01:20:18 * rbm wanders off 01:23:51 wow, thats weird: whenever i search for words with german umlauts in it, opera wants to save the result page instead of just displaying it 01:27:18 anybody know how i can make openfts index old content? e.g. news items that have been on the site before openfts was installed? 01:30:10 ok... 01:32:52 here's another... 01:33:09 I'm at /dotlrn/admin/users 01:33:37 I say create 01:34:03 I get the form, and fill it out 01:36:07 I get the email form, and decide not to send, but I want to create another user. 01:36:41 so I go back (reasonable assumtion, I can use my back button? :) 01:37:00 and I find the form, still filled out with the user I just added 01:37:17 so, I say -cool-, I'll just edit that 01:38:17 I do so, and submit... error: 01:38:31 can't use non-numeric string as operand of "!" 01:38:31 while executing 01:38:31 "if {![cc_email_from_party $target_user_id]} { 01:38:31 # create the ACS user 01:38:31 set password [ad_generate_random_string] 01:38:33 set t..." 01:38:52 I know exactly where that is, and can get you the cvs info for that file... 01:39:31 hmm, haven't seen that one. yeah the cvs info would be great 01:40:35 it's in /packages/dotlrn/www dir, file /user-add.tcl/1.17/Thu May 16 05:17:09 2002//, 01:40:47 about line 121 or 122 01:40:58 HOWEVER 01:42:00 if I would have went back one more time, then clicked on Create New User again, I would have gotten a blank form, filled it out, added the user no problem. 01:42:06 so... 01:42:20 the only consequence of this bug is BBB 01:42:26 Back Button Breakage 01:43:01 jim2: for the first error, check the vesion of the /pacakges/file-storage/file-storage-init.tcl file. let me try to replicate the user-add bug 01:43:19 ok 01:43:36 (note about versions... 01:44:44 I'm running aolserver 3.3.1 + ad13, oracle-8.1.6 and got openacs and dotlrn from cvs at about the same time, evening of may 16th, pst 01:44:47 ) 01:45:17 jim: in my opinion the assumption that the back button should work is not 100% reasonable in this case. 01:45:33 then new interface is needed :) 01:46:05 jim2: i agree, it's a bug 01:46:41 if you want to go by the assumptions of Apple Human Interface Guidelines, what you have to do is design the interface in such a way that the error is prevented 01:47:18 til: having said all that, I have a vague tendency to agree, or at least understand 01:47:33 maybe i just have too many bad experiences, so that i automatically avoid the back button when forms are involved 01:49:40 til: I see your point... thing is, not everyone will do that... me, I like using back :) and there will be -clueless- school staff and faculty who have power and who won't find the situation acceptable, if they can't find a workaround like I did 01:50:30 so in this case maybe adding a "skip email sending" link that is simply the return-url would do the trick? 01:50:30 isn't that an acs-subsite issue - not dotlrn? 01:50:47 at the very least, you need buttons on the mail-new-user page that say "don't send it" and "add another user" 01:51:17 and then, some people will -still- use back :) 01:51:26 what can ya do? :) 01:52:19 til: no i think the back button should work, we want dotlrn users to never see a "request error" page, i'll let yon know about this (it's his department) 01:52:22 oops, we just came up with the same sol'n, and I did so without reading that you did so :) 01:53:31 jim2: about the file-storage error? 01:53:51 hmmm... maybe this is irrelevent... but the first person I added was John Smith... and the second was his bro, John Lennon... 01:54:01 arjunsanyal: one sec 01:54:40 (I did change email address and ID for Lennon) 01:56:21 the /pacakges/file-storage/file-storage-init.tcl file I can't find yet... 01:56:48 I corrected spelling on packages (well, by never CDing out of that dir :) 01:57:04 but file-storage-init.tcl might be in tcl/ 01:57:18 jim2: yup in /tcl sorry :) 01:57:24 bingo.... /file-storage-init.tcl/1.2/Sun May 12 20:57:02 2002// 01:58:28 jim2: ahh ok, you need to revert that to v1.1 - you can use this command" 01:58:28 cvs update -r 1.1 -p file-storage-init.tcl > file-storage-init.tcl", restart, and _i think_ it should fix it 01:59:10 mv file-storage-init.tcl file-storage-init.tcl-version1.2 02:00:04 umm :) 02:00:11 that version has nothing in it :) 02:00:24 except a call to ad_library :) 02:00:59 jim2: yup that's what we want. of course, I could have said just comment the stuff out... :) 02:01:08 true ;) 02:01:13 ok, hammering. 02:01:34 I will make dotlrn restarts faster one day 02:01:54 i do a lot of them 02:02:10 they already -are- faster than one day! 02:02:29 :) 02:02:52 ok, which bug is that supposed to fix? 02:04:05 add a class under a subject? 02:04:09 add a user? 02:04:25 * jim2 tries both 02:05:55 sorry, doing 4 things at once. class under a subject 02:06:02 that works now 02:06:06 cool! 02:06:50 i sent email to yon about the user-add bug, he'll probably have it fixed tomorrow 02:06:56 adding a community works 02:07:14 (I think I had trouble before) 02:09:13 ok, next: 02:09:31 great, FYI you can email dotlrn@openforce.net with bug reports - all the dotlrn developers are recipients 02:11:24 OK :) but it's nice to have a quick 2-way with someone in the know before actually filing... 02:12:29 but the way it is now, it's sorta presentable... 02:12:38 I have some suggestions... 02:12:54 and at least one more problem, if you'd like to hear them :) 02:14:15 go for it 02:14:21 OK... 02:16:28 (see... I built something I called the Roster Project, potentially capable of becoming aware of any number of students and the classes they're enrolled in from a large CSV file, including them in a text db and from there generating accounts on an arbitrary number of arbitrary kinds of servers...) 02:16:42 (so I've been here, done some of that :) 02:17:19 interesting.. 02:17:31 first, I like the fact that you allow a bulk transfer of students... but it's not complete. what is needed is a way to get them into their classes. 02:17:35 but 02:17:45 if there's no defined classes, then what? 02:17:54 so you type them in? 02:18:23 better: also have a bulk transfer of classes 02:20:10 I had this running in a four-campus district, where I could identify any section of any class ever taught... by using a key with term, campus and classcode (a four-digit number unique to term and campus) 02:20:23 so, my keys looked like this... 02:20:40 F2001-Laney-1234 02:21:06 (well, a little different, but you can see what's up) 02:21:35 students were identified by their SSN 02:21:53 so their identity was identical on all four campuses 02:21:55 so: 02:23:32 could have deployed this thing such that their login name and password was the same everywhere on the four campuses, and login/passwd pairs would get added to any server equpt they were assigned access by way of their enrolling in a class 02:24:28 further, a specific teacher could ask for a file that could add accounts to that teacher's personal server, if that server was one of those supported by the system 02:24:57 (supporting a new server was fairly simple: you write about 7 perl procs) 02:25:49 now... this college district had a mainframe that had records for all students on all four campuses 02:26:18 and the programmer for that system created a program that could give the list of students for a class 02:26:37 in a fixed-field CSV format 02:26:50 also 02:27:07 she made another download available on a daily basis... 02:27:13 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-82.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 02:27:24 which was the list of courses with their schedules and other info 02:27:47 with me so far? 02:27:52 hi davb 02:27:53 yup. 02:28:04 hi everyone 02:28:19 hi 02:28:41 I was gonna create a calendar app for this district that would let a student choose his courses based on schedule 02:29:45 one idea that was advanced, was "I'm Joe Student, and I have tuesday and thursday available between the hours of 3 and 5 pm. show me all courses on all campuses I can take, in a calendar view. 02:29:49 " 02:31:52 but my idea was, "I'm Joe Potential Student, and I want to try to form a schedule. Help me by giving me a one-week view of my schedule, initially blank, that I can also put my own appointments on. Let me add potential classes to it". 02:33:00 In my Roster Project, I wanted to handle four types of people: 02:33:05 students, 02:33:12 (first priority :) 02:33:18 faculty, 02:33:23 staff, 02:34:02 and system accts (this was once unix-centric, and root, bin, apps, mail, etc were going to be among those) 02:34:35 ok 02:35:52 so I wanted to be able to create all new, and have my database of staff and faculty added, go to the mainframe for the schedule of classes, add that, then get the students from the mainframe and add them. 02:36:01 following that, 02:37:06 I'd run a query sorta like "select logname,passwd from students group by server-they-belong-to" 02:38:18 and the output of that (NOT A) select was automatically in the form needed by a particular server (most times, a batch file or shell script) to add accounts to that server 02:38:30 next... 02:38:59 I stored timestamps in appropriate places... so I'd know if a student was already added to a server 02:40:02 the upshot of which, was I could run the whole thing again, with students already in the central database I kept, to get new adds and drops, for the purpose of removing them from servers 02:40:09 or adding new people 02:41:14 this is for access to the local computer or for the calendar app? 02:41:22 both 02:41:47 you'd also try to get new classes or note ones that were apparently cancelled 02:41:50 the_docwolf (~wolf@adsl-34-227-234.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 02:41:59 evening, funky cats 02:42:13 dude 02:42:27 howdy docwolf 02:42:33 hola 02:42:44 greetings to you, paje. 02:42:44 the_docwolf: huh? 02:42:50 paje, attack 02:42:51 the_docwolf: sorry... 02:42:51 access to local servers is based on "whether student is enrolled in currently active course(s)" 02:43:26 and calendar schedule helper is based on "currently active courses" 02:44:28 further, calendar schedule helper could also be course enroller, i.e., student could then say "OK! I like that schedule! Sign me up for all these classes!" 02:45:33 paje, attack is | paje knaws furiously on docwolf's leg 02:45:33 OK, denshi. 02:45:36 paje, attack 02:45:36 paje knaws furiously on docwolf's leg 02:45:50 and, assuming everyone were doing their jobs, they'd have their own access to everything they needed before they walked onto campus 02:45:51 knaws? 02:46:18 paje, oop is ack 02:46:18 ...but oop is ack or blarg|fnord... 02:46:33 oop is ~/fnord/arg/ 02:46:35 knawing is harder than gnawing, given k is harder than g :) 02:46:39 literal oop? 02:46:39 markd2: oop =is= ack or blarg|fnord 02:46:52 oop 02:46:54 oop? 02:46:54 oop is ack or blarg 02:46:57 oop? 02:46:57 oop is fnord 02:47:13 oops is ~=/fnord/arg/ 02:47:19 oop is ~=/fnord/arg/ 02:47:21 literal oop 02:47:21 markd2: oop =is= ack or blarg|fnord 02:47:27 * markd2 sighs 02:47:48 oop =~ s/fnord/arg/ 02:47:52 oop? 02:47:53 oop is probably ack or blarg 02:47:55 oop? 02:47:55 i think oop is ack or blarg 02:47:56 oop? 02:47:57 hmmm... oop is fnord 02:47:57 paje, attack is also | /me defeats markd2's period epic costume style with his dragon bot style 02:47:58 okay, denshi. 02:48:01 paje, attack 02:48:01 paje knaws furiously on docwolf's leg 02:48:02 paje, attack 02:48:02 /me defeats markd2's period epic costume style with his dragon bot style 02:48:03 literal oop 02:48:03 markd2: oop =is= ack or blarg|fnord 02:48:13 paje, literal attack 02:48:13 denshi: attack =is= | paje knaws furiously on docwolf's leg| /me defeats markd2's period epic costume style with his dragon bot style 02:48:16 denshi: I think 02:48:22 yep 02:48:24 paje, oop =~ s/fnord/arg/ 02:48:24 OK, jim2 02:48:26 paje, forget attack 02:48:26 denshi: I forgot attack 02:48:27 oop? 02:48:28 oop is ack or blarg 02:48:28 oop? 02:48:29 hmmm... oop is arg 02:48:33 there! :) 02:48:33 paje, attack is also | /me defeats markd2's period epic costume style with his dragon bot style 02:48:33 OK, denshi. 02:48:37 paje, attack 02:48:37 * paje /me defeats markd2's period epic costume style with his dragon bot style 02:48:41 paje, forget attack 02:48:41 denshi: I forgot attack 02:49:27 paje, attack is | commandeers the Kentucky Navy and sinks Pittsburgh. 02:49:28 OK, denshi. 02:49:28 s# /me defeats# defeats# 02:49:32 paje, attack 02:49:32 denshi: sorry... 02:49:35 there ya go :) 02:49:43 paje, literal attack 02:49:44 denshi: attack =is= | commandeers the Kentucky Navy and sinks Pittsburgh. 02:49:52 paje, attack is also | commandeers the Kentucky Navy and sinks Pittsburgh. 02:49:52 okay, denshi. 02:49:54 paje, attack 02:49:54 denshi: huh? 02:49:55 paje, attack 02:49:56 * paje commandeers the Kentucky Navy and sinks Pittsburgh. 02:50:00 huh 02:50:05 paje forget attack 02:50:05 denshi: I forgot attack 02:50:12 what's up docwolf? 02:50:38 paje, attack is also | You can't fight in here! This is the War Room! 02:50:38 OK, denshi. 02:51:12 sheesh :) /me thinks the war room should be the ONLY place fighting is allowed... :) 02:51:16 paje, attack 02:51:17 You can't fight in here! This is the War Room! 02:51:31 jim2 is some kind of prevert. 02:51:36 paje, jim2? 02:51:36 i heard jim2 was some kind of prevert. 02:51:47 I'm before a vert? 02:52:03 jim2 is also after our precious bodily fluids 02:52:03 okay, denshi. 02:52:30 arjunsanyal: OK... so I've spun my twisty tale of campus stuff... what thinks you? :) 02:54:10 jim2: reading 02:54:53 (the final "problem" is still unsaid yet) 02:57:29 jim2: ok, see if i got this right, users use the calendar app to populate central user/class db, which is queried by "remote" scripts for access control.. 02:59:00 arjunsanyal: well, could happen that way in a district lacking any computerized record keeping... 02:59:39 but in this particular situation, "enrolling" happens on a separate system, most of which I had no access to 03:01:29 so: enroll == transaction on mainframe, get CSV records happens as a consequence of a query to that mainframe... hence, the oracle (hopefully SOON or postgres) would keep records which are duplicates 03:03:43 I would imagine that many campuses are like this... 03:05:28 I can also envision situations where the district data center will entirely deny you access to records necessary to implement pre-access-setup on a campus or even district-wide basis 03:05:51 (which for you is the same as having no computerized records at all) 03:06:21 so the main goal of this system is pre-access-setup? 03:06:44 well, yeah... it makes the campus bigwigs look good 03:07:36 a student sits down, has his login and password (handed to him over the net somehow, maybe) and he can sit down and start working immediately) 03:07:46 that makes the student look good too 03:08:01 and the student is paying everyone's salary 03:08:42 that's probably the bottom line, monitarily... 03:09:18 (in many -normal- situations, anyway :) aduni considered abnormal) 03:10:20 also, in the strongest and best situations, student success -> teacher success 03:10:38 markd2 has left #openacs 03:11:14 NOT teacher has good rep -> student only successful if follows teacher jumping thru all hoops 03:12:05 in many cases, teachers and admin staff are at odds 03:12:15 how so? 03:12:19 admins think teachers uppity 03:12:30 teachers think admins are in their WAY. 03:13:13 sometimes teachers ARE uppity 03:13:22 sometimes admins ARE in teachers way 03:13:47 but each think that of the other most of the time, not just sometimes 03:14:36 so what was the ultimate problem that you mentioned? 03:14:46 it's not ultimate, 03:14:56 it's just the last problem I had to mention :) 03:15:07 I'm in my main calendar view 03:15:22 (which is a portal/portlet) 03:15:30 I can make it disappear 03:15:36 I cannot make it come back 03:15:57 that's a problem :) 03:16:26 (when I look at the page, what would be the full calendar appears as extra vertical white space, maybe a text line or two) 03:17:00 I tested that: removed the calendar view, there was less vertical space used where it would have appeared 03:17:15 put it back, the white space came back 03:17:32 (but no calendar) 03:17:34 also... 03:17:47 moved (missing) calendar view to another page 03:17:57 added extra white space to that page 03:18:00 removed... 03:18:06 white space went away 03:18:14 moved it back to calendar page... 03:18:28 white space came back to calendar page 03:18:56 so there's something I'm removing/replacing/moving... 03:19:07 it just doesn't look like a calendar :) 03:20:19 now, if you want an ultimate problem, here it is: there's no reference docs! I go to /doc, no dotlrn (or new-portal for that matter) package shows up on the right side 03:21:01 how did you make it disappear? through the "customize" page or by hitting the shade button? 03:21:26 (hence /packages/{new-portal,dotlrn*}/admin/doc doesn't exist, right?) 03:21:48 yes, there's nothing in there yet 03:21:50 I think in one case I shaded it, and in another I hit the x button 03:22:50 admittedly, this is my first day of looking at all of this... maybe I'm missing something obvious... but I can't find it yet? 03:26:45 nope, I just checked and you have found an bug i didn't know about. did you try to do the same thing with other portlets? 03:27:33 actually, just now did it 03:27:52 I added a community called comFOOnity 03:28:13