IRC log of openacs on 2002-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:15 [talli]
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00:09:40 [talli]
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00:10:24 [davb]
hi talli
00:12:33 [talli]
hey davb
00:13:31 [talli_]
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00:13:35 [talli_]
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00:24:12 [til]
good evening
00:24:36 [til]
talli, if you're there: any updates on the ad-hoc reporting issue for openacs?
00:25:41 [talli]
no, not really
00:26:17 [til]
did you here of python-reportlab?
00:26:35 [talli]
yeah, but that's not much help, is it?
00:26:43 [talli]
that just greats the pdf, right?
00:27:05 [til]
right, but thats the hardest part
00:27:29 [talli]
hmmm... not for our needs
00:27:38 [talli]
at least, that's not the question i have
00:28:20 [til]
isn't that what you need something like "take this field and this field, order by this, and make it a list on A4?"
00:29:28 [talli]
yes
00:29:40 [til]
or are you looking for a gui layout builder that can do all sorts of fancy things?
00:29:49 [talli]
more or less the former
00:30:50 [til]
i am playing with reportlab right now to generate invoices, offers, and letters in general
00:32:01 [til]
there are some rather nice table generation facilities in reportlab
00:32:40 [talli]
oh, ok. very cool
00:32:58 [talli]
what's the url for reportlab?
00:33:31 [til]
www.reportlab.com
00:34:02 [til]
they also seem to offer what you need, for only 10000$ per server
00:35:13 [talli]
nice
00:35:17 [talli]
that's all, huh?
00:35:41 [til]
they also want your left kidney
00:36:56 [talli]
to be honest, for some projects 10K isn't that much
00:37:26 [talli]
the weakest link friggin' sucks
00:38:47 [til]
weakest link?
00:40:56 [talli]
think of the worst game show in Germany
00:41:01 [talli]
multiply that by 10
00:41:48 [til]
better not ...
00:42:35 [davb]
good idea.
00:43:18 [talli]
debian really does spoil a person
00:43:25 [talli]
upgrading a distro is a snap
00:43:37 [talli]
up2date just doesn't do it well
00:43:46 [talli]
unless, of course, you want to pay
00:44:13 [davb]
anyone know anything about the java 2 jre 1.4 for linux?
00:49:32 [til]
last i used was 1.2 ...
00:50:06 [davb]
ok. I noticed that sun has a linux version of the new one.
00:52:36 [Psychephylax]
43Hey
00:53:05 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax kicks dave
00:55:58 [til]
bye
00:56:07 [Psychephylax]
Bye til
00:58:27 [talli]
Psychephylax: how do you like gentoo?
01:08:31 [davb]
hi Psychephylax
01:08:42 [denshi-away]
it's like everyone is pimping gentoo these days
01:09:01 [davb]
davb is now known as davb-matrix
01:09:22 [talli]
denshi-away: have you tried gentoo yet?
01:13:02 [denshi-away]
no, but at the grocery like the 20th person told me to use it.
01:13:18 [talli]
hmmm...
01:13:19 [denshi-away]
"try that stilton cheese! and run gentoo linux!"
01:13:31 [talli]
i guess people think that it's something totally new
01:13:36 [talli]
like... BSD never existed
01:13:47 [denshi-away]
denshi-away is now known as denshi
01:44:32 [talli]
denshi: what does that mean, my friend?
01:52:49 [Psychephylax]
ack
01:53:07 [Psychephylax]
Well, BSD is more mature
01:53:16 [Psychephylax]
and Gentoo is more bleeding edge
01:53:32 [Psychephylax]
BSD is more server oriented
01:53:40 [Psychephylax]
Gentoo is more desktop oriented
01:56:44 [talli]
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01:57:09 [Psychephylax]
When in doubt watch the Matrix
01:57:39 [talli]
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02:07:03 [Psychephylax]
XP sucks
02:07:07 [Psychephylax]
D-Link sucks
02:07:20 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax watches matrix
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06:49:21 [ChanServ]
[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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09:47:04 [til]
mornin
10:41:05 [til]
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10:52:01 [pete_openmsg]
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10:52:50 [til]
hi peter!
10:53:03 [pete_openmsg]
Hi there! First time on the IRC channel....
10:53:27 [til]
all the americans are still sleeping i guess
10:53:52 [til]
thus nice and quiet it is ;)
10:54:09 [pete_openmsg]
Indeed. I'd seen the channel mentioned a new times, but have never quite got round to dropping by. How busy does it get?
10:54:19 [davb-matrix]
yes, we are sleeping still :)
10:54:30 [til]
no, you are still watching matrix ;)
10:55:20 [til]
can't compare busyness since i don't irc that much
10:56:33 [til]
are you Peter Harper?
10:56:52 [pete_openmsg]
Yep....
10:56:59 [davb-matrix]
davb-matrix is now known as davb
10:58:05 [til]
Peter "automated-testing" Harper ;)
10:58:39 [pete_openmsg]
Erm.... yeh, although I haven't had time to progress that recently. Work commitments have been getting the better of me...
10:59:41 [til]
i didn't do much with tclwebtest either
10:59:58 [pete_openmsg]
I'm also responsible for the Mobile additions that OpenMSG have just released to the community.
11:01:13 [pete_openmsg]
I still plan to continue the automated testing/tclwebtest integration at some point. Don and I had some discussion a while back about better integration with the acs-core as well.
11:02:36 [til]
cool
11:04:33 [til]
would be cooler if that discussion was on the bboard though ...
11:06:34 [pete_openmsg]
Indeed. I should have more free time in a month or so, and plan to progress the testing stuff again.
11:07:33 [til]
That would be great ... I am still interested too, and might find some time
11:08:34 [til]
do you have experience with other web application testing products?
11:10:06 [pete_openmsg]
Not web-application testing unfortunately. I worked for a company called IPL about 3 years ago who build module testing tools for C/C++ and Ada95, hence the acs-automated-testing being rather "code" oriented.
11:10:44 [pete_openmsg]
I.e, Testing individual functions/code blocks rather than the user-interface functionality. There's a place for both, but I know less about testing the latter.
11:11:43 [til]
Ok. I don't have practical experience with either, unfortunately
11:12:31 [til]
wish i had the opportunity to try some commercial stuff once, to see what's possible
11:44:02 [davb]
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12:18:51 [pete_openmsg]
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12:56:18 [talli_]
hey pete_openmsg!
12:56:23 [talli_]
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12:58:58 [davb]
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12:59:06 [davb]
hello
13:01:04 [talli]
yo davb
13:01:12 [davb]
good morning talli
13:04:12 [pete_openmsg]
Sorry, Hi Talli..... away from my desk.
13:05:59 [talli]
no prob
13:09:26 [pete_openmsg]
Would someone mind saying something. I'm just trying to test some event scripts...
13:15:50 [shagster]
something :)
13:16:05 [pete_openmsg]
Cheers.... and again?
13:16:19 [shagster]
I've seen the greatest minds of my generation....
13:16:24 [shagster]
Cheers..
13:16:26 [pete_openmsg]
Thanks. All working fine.
13:16:35 [shagster]
Kewl
13:46:58 [shagster]
0/clear all
13:47:01 [shagster]
*grr8
14:03:49 [pete_openmsg]
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14:46:16 [talli]
hey pete_openmsg, can't you get some of your other "mates" and "blokes" in here?
14:46:36 [talli]
we don't have enough foreigners in here.
14:46:42 [talli]
i mean, not enough foreigners to make fun of
14:48:04 [pete_openmsg]
eh?
14:48:28 [talli]
you're in that place that has a "queen" or something, right?
14:48:56 [pete_openmsg]
Yep, the lovely city of Bath in the UK.
14:49:09 [talli]
where is that?
14:49:19 [talli]
i mean Bath, not the UK.
14:49:26 [talli]
although you may want to help me with the UK, too
14:49:41 [talli]
as an american, i hardly even know the places that we're bombing!
14:50:23 [pete_openmsg]
;-) Bath is south-west england, near Bristol (if that means anything to you). About 110 miles west of London.
14:50:35 [talli]
ah, cool
14:50:51 [pete_openmsg]
You?
14:51:04 [talli]
i would make a monty python joke about sparrows, but i'm not geeky enough to remember what the joke is
14:51:06 [talli]
i'm in NYC
14:52:54 [shagster]
I live near Bath. (Bath, Ohio, USA that is)
14:53:26 [talli]
shagster: you may live near there, but you really should visit it more often
14:53:29 [talli]
at least the one in your house
14:53:46 [shagster]
I do, every Saturday night :P
14:53:55 [talli]
nice
14:54:08 [talli]
right before church, i imagine?
14:54:26 [talli]
and after a hard week of nut harvesting?
14:54:36 [shagster]
Of course. I like to be squeky clean when I see the priest! LOL
14:54:49 [shagster]
Yep, that is hard word
14:54:52 [shagster]
Umm work
14:55:01 [shagster]
*grr*. Need more coffee
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15:41:57 [talli]
is anyone familiar with a plain english definition of what the Mozilla Public License 1.1 means?
15:42:29 [talli]
if i understand correctly, it says that any code derived and released is jointly copyrighted by both the contributor and the original developer
15:42:38 [talli]
and there is no copyleft
15:42:51 [talli]
is that right?
15:48:44 [shagster]
his is a free software license which is not a strong copyleft; unlike the X11 license, it has some complex restrictions that
15:48:45 [shagster]
make it incompatible with the GNU GPL. That is, a module covered by the GPL and a module covered by the MPL cannot
15:48:45 [shagster]
legally be linked together. We urge you not to use the MPL for this reason.
15:48:45 [shagster]
However, MPL 1.1 has a provision (section 13) that allows a program (or parts of it) to offer a choice of another license as
15:48:47 [shagster]
well. If part of a program allows the GNU GPL as an alternate choice, or any other GPL-compatible license as an alternate
15:48:49 [shagster]
choice, that part of the program has a GPL-compatible license.
15:48:55 [shagster]
From http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
15:49:36 [talli]
thanks
15:49:46 [shagster]
Hope that helps you out. I've alwasy avoid the MPL because, quite frankly, it still is a bit unclear to me
16:00:11 [talli]
yeah, i would avoid it too
16:00:23 [talli]
shagster: have i told you about Momentum?
16:00:30 [talli]
the calendar server project i'm working on?
16:01:26 [talli]
i like the Portable.Net license, which is GPL except for linking
16:01:40 [talli]
that says you can link to it, but if you change any of the core code you have to release it
16:20:50 [pete_openmsg]
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16:29:36 [denshi]
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16:30:51 [davb]
hi denshi, have you seen lua?
16:31:05 [denshi]
heard of it, vaguely
16:31:16 [davb]
i just heard it was easy to embed.
16:31:49 [davb]
also this sounds interesting: "A fundamental concept in the design of Lua is to provide meta-mechanisms for implementing features, instead of providing a host of features directly in the language."
16:33:24 [denshi]
sounds like the LISP philosophy
16:35:43 [denshi]
i've been over a barrel trying to find a threadsafe Scheme interpreter
16:38:45 [talli]
speaking of barrel, does anyone know how to symlink friggin openoffice???
16:38:56 [talli]
why is symlinking so friggin hard? am i that stupid?
16:39:00 [talli]
don't anser that
16:40:09 [talli]
how does one check where a symlink originates?
16:40:13 [talli]
please answer that question
16:40:39 [davb]
denshi: supposedlu mzscheme is...
16:40:49 [davb]
talli ls symlink-name -l
16:41:18 [davb]
why are you doing all this symlinking anyway. it usually means you screwed something up if you need all these links :)
16:41:29 [talli]
thanks davb
16:41:45 [davb]
well, that has been my experience anyway.
16:41:56 [talli]
well, i want to be able to call soffice from other users of the system
16:42:07 [davb]
install as root.
16:43:04 [davb]
"MzScheme is an excellent embeddable Scheme with real-world features like threads, regular expressions, sockets, full-featured libraries, etc."
16:43:12 [davb]
does not actually say "thread safe"
16:43:22 [davb]
talli: is there a debian package
16:43:31 [talli]
davb: i'm running RH7.3
16:43:34 [talli]
i did install as root
16:43:37 [davb]
talli: oh.
16:43:43 [davb]
and it doesn't "just work"?
16:43:45 [davb]
strange.
16:44:05 [davb]
perhaps the user you are trying to run doesn';t have his path set correctly.
16:44:17 [talli]
maybe
16:44:43 [talli]
how might i check that?
16:44:50 [davb]
login as user
16:44:53 [davb]
echo $PATH
16:45:06 [davb]
see if the place openoffice is installed is in the path.
16:45:15 [davb]
it is set in ~/.bash_profile
16:45:47 [davb]
according to the guy who recommened lua in the same sentence as ruby, he says mzscheme has the best libraries etc...
16:50:04 [OldhamCR]
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16:51:45 [talli]
hey OldhamCR
16:52:30 [denshi]
davb: mzscheme is decidedly NOT thread-safe
16:53:26 [denshi]
MzScheme can co-exist with additional OS-implemented threads that are created by an extension or an embedding program, but the additional OS threads must not call any scheme_ function. Only the OS thread that originally calls scheme_basic_env can call scheme_ functions.
16:53:41 [denshi]
I should have quoted that; it's from the manual. bah.
16:54:33 [denshi]
mzscheme does seem to have the best libraries, though
16:56:08 [denshi]
one neat thing about using schemes/lisps for web dev: you can create pages fully interpreted, but you can compile them later for speed, with no source change. also cool: the compile function is part of the language environment, so you can programmatically control when to compile pages.
16:58:59 [talli]
denshi: how's paul graham's project coming along?
16:59:13 [denshi]
that guy has dropped off the face of the earth
16:59:31 [talli]
uh oh
16:59:34 [talli]
maybe he's hacking/
16:59:35 [talli]
?
17:00:14 [denshi]
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17:00:54 [talli]
well, that's an ironic exit
17:01:00 [denshi]
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17:02:15 [denshi]
man, this mozilla build is unstable
17:02:31 [denshi]
re: paul graham, yeah, I'd assume he's hacking
17:04:01 [pete_openmsg]
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17:07:06 [talli]
that should be pretty cool if he's hacking
17:07:19 [talli]
this new language he's supposedly building is especially for the web?
17:08:13 [talli]
it would be a *real* bummer if his languaeg turns out to be good
17:08:33 [talli]
what will all the python/perl/java bigots do if all of a sudden there's a new language to love?
17:09:58 [denshi]
get on with their hating?
17:10:59 [talli]
:)
17:11:31 [denshi]
i wonder when the language wars are going to spill out into the street and start burning cars
17:11:52 [talli]
when hackers lose enough weight they can get out of their chairs
17:19:02 [denshi]
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17:19:56 [davb]
I wonder which Mozilla denshi is using. 1.0rc1 and rc2 work well for me.
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17:44:47 [davb]
yippee
17:45:35 [davb]
oh yeah. why is it impossible for a login page to tell you which of your name or password you mistyped. they all say, we can't find you name or password, we don't know which, try again.
17:45:53 [OldhamCR]
Isn't that a security issue?
17:45:56 [OldhamCR]
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17:46:39 [davb]
i suppose.
17:46:55 [davb]
that is probably the reason.
17:50:41 [hazmat]
the language wars are over... everybody lost
17:51:42 [denshi]
heh
17:55:17 [barstool]
barstool is now known as talli
17:59:42 [davb]
how many talli's are there?
17:59:49 [talli]
there are two
17:59:53 [talli]
and they are both evil
17:59:56 [talli]
beware!
18:00:28 [talli]
uglybarstool is my home IRC
18:00:31 [talli]
barstool is at the office
18:00:44 [davb]
ah.
18:17:57 [davb]
wow, I am getting alot of hits (well several a day) from openacs.org/sites.html
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19:19:11 [talli]
sooooo quuuuuiiiieeeetttt
19:23:20 [shagster]
Heh, maybe people are actually working today?
19:23:36 [shagster]
(heaven forbid!)
19:23:52 [talli]
hey shagster
19:24:08 [talli]
did you get my question earlier? about whether i had told you abou momentum?
19:25:32 [shagster]
Nope, sorry
19:25:58 [talli]
did i tell you about it, or did you miss the questions?
19:26:25 [shagster]
I don't recall either (I got pulled away from the computer for a while)
19:27:05 [talli]
well, i'm working with some others to build a free calendar server: http://www.museatech.net/faq/momentum
19:29:02 [shagster]
Ahh, Okay I think you did mention that a while back, during my busy days
19:29:16 [talli]
lotsa nuts to harvest, i imagine
19:29:23 [talli]
are you interested in such a project?
19:29:36 [talli]
we could use some mean sysadmin and C hackers... know any?
19:30:03 [shagster]
I know lots of mean people :)
19:30:15 [talli]
with long and sharp knices...
19:30:35 [shagster]
I'd be interested (and I might know a few others that may have the time )
19:30:40 [talli]
that's killer
19:30:50 [talli]
do you know C?
19:31:46 [shagster]
Yea, between b and d right ? :)
19:31:50 [Bad_Buay]
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19:32:12 [talli]
is it between those? i thought it was up your ass.
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19:32:34 [shagster]
[to talli]: No, that is where my head usually is :)
19:32:34 [denshi]
nice timing there, talli
19:32:37 [Bad_Buay]
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19:32:40 [Bad_Buay]
hi
19:32:52 [talli]
thanks denshi
19:32:54 [talli]
hey Bad_Buay
19:32:59 [shagster]
I try not to stuff anything in my donkey though
19:33:05 [shagster]
He doesn't like it :P
19:33:15 [Bad_Buay]
is good to have a chat like this, I just found it in the forum
19:33:16 [Bad_Buay]
=)
19:33:32 [talli]
Bad_Buay: who are you on the boards?
19:33:39 [shagster]
Seriously though, I use to work exclusively in FORTRAN and C before I gave it up to be a sysadmin
19:33:48 [talli]
ah, very cool
19:34:01 [Bad_Buay]
Jorge, but i didn't post
19:34:08 [talli]
ah, well, welcome
19:34:28 [Bad_Buay]
I've been following openacs and acs since 2 years now
19:34:34 [Bad_Buay]
sorry for my English
19:34:35 [Bad_Buay]
=)
19:34:49 [lethedrinker]
talli: jasperreports.sf.net
19:35:00 [shagster]
[to Bad_Buay]: Can't be any worse than mine, and it is my native tongue
19:35:05 [Bad_Buay]
I just install 4.5 cvs acs-core
19:35:08 [lethedrinker]
talli: i think thats a different report toolkit then the one previously mentioned
19:35:12 [Bad_Buay]
hehehe
19:35:14 [talli]
very cool, thanks
19:36:06 [Bad_Buay]
I'm using FreeBSD 4.5, pg7.1 and openacs 4.5, two days old version
19:36:22 [talli]
Bad_Buay: cool!
19:36:23 [Bad_Buay]
it still with the new_user.tcl bug
19:36:30 [talli]
freebsd can be a bit problematic, though
19:36:47 [talli]
that's all i can say. my technical knowledge has been exhausted
19:36:50 [Bad_Buay]
really? why is freebsd problematic?
19:36:54 [Bad_Buay]
hehehe
19:37:09 [talli]
aolserver doesn't play well with freebsd, IIRC
19:37:17 [talli]
at least it didn't when we tried
19:37:43 [Bad_Buay]
did you try the patches?
19:37:55 [talli]
not i.
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19:51:33 [shagster]
As long as you have the exec patch, it works fine
19:51:33 [shagster]
The only problem with AOLserver and FreeBSD is using exec, there is a patch for that though
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[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
19:52:11 [jim]
I want to help make it easy to delete things in oacs, that's probably the closest to the core I get :)
19:52:47 [jim]
yer all back again :)
19:53:33 [Bad_Buay]
yep
19:54:21 [jim]
talli: it seems like the difference is applying that patch... seems like if you do that, your aolserver will work at least well enough to support {,O}ACS
19:55:21 [davb]
Bad_Buay: I worked on a little bit of it.
19:55:46 [jim]
that little bit is miles more than me :)
19:56:54 [davb]
heh
19:58:28 [Bad_Buay]
well, gotta go, nice to meet you
19:58:29 [Bad_Buay]
c ya
19:58:32 [Bad_Buay]
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20:01:23 [jim]
* jim was wondering what bad_buay's actual question was...
20:01:30 [jim]
oh well :)
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20:14:55 [denshi]
what are you up to davb?
20:15:20 [davb]
goofing off.
20:15:27 [davb]
I want to finish up some stuff for etp 2.0
20:16:49 [davb]
plus actually learn to program :)
20:17:02 [davb]
jim: did you email that guy about SICP?
20:17:04 [denshi]
you and me both
20:17:05 [cro]
How is etp 2.0 coming?
20:17:18 [denshi]
what's the diff between etp 1 & 2?
20:19:20 [davb]
etp 2 is easier to create custom types.
20:19:25 [davb]
or will be.
20:19:34 [cro]
image support?
20:19:56 [jim]
davb: not yet... I did look to see if he was here tho
20:20:06 [davb]
ok.
20:20:12 [davb]
here as in irc?
20:20:28 [jim]
yeah, that's where the original conversation took place
20:20:36 [davb]
ah.
20:20:49 [davb]
http://ootips.org/
20:20:49 [oacs-chump]
A: http://ootips.org/ from davb
20:20:57 [davb]
A:| OOTIPS
20:20:57 [oacs-chump]
titled item A
20:21:09 [davb]
A: looks interesting if you need that sort of thing
20:21:09 [oacs-chump]
added comment A1
20:21:15 [jim]
oo! tips!
20:22:22 [davb]
http://theflangynews.editthispage.com/2002/05/11
20:22:22 [oacs-chump]
B: http://theflangynews.editthispage.com/2002/05/11 from davb
20:22:39 [davb]
B: Programming anti-idioms
20:22:39 [oacs-chump]
added comment B1
20:23:21 [davb]
B:"It is also important to know what not to do. Just because a language allows a certain coding style doesn't mean that style is a good one."
20:23:22 [oacs-chump]
added comment B2
20:23:25 [davb]
B: i need some of this
20:23:25 [oacs-chump]
added comment B3
20:26:41 [davb]
bye
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20:30:13 [rbm]
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20:30:20 [rbm]
Hello world!
20:31:47 [jim]
re rbm
20:32:39 [denshi]
oom!
20:41:43 [talli]
hey rbm!
20:44:46 [rbm]
hi all
20:44:51 [rbm]
What's been going on
20:44:55 [rbm]
s/$/?/
20:45:05 [rbm]
My parents are gone, so I'm back in business :)\
21:06:46 [denshi]
rbm, you make oacs sound vaguely criminal
21:07:29 [pete_openmsg]
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21:11:02 [rbm]
denshi: ??
21:11:30 [denshi]
"my parents are gone, so I'm back in business"
21:11:46 [denshi]
" I can code Tcl as long as I don't look mom in the eye"
21:12:34 [rbm]
Oh, that's not what I meant at all. It's just that I was taking them everywhere, so I barely touched my computer while they were here
21:12:38 [denshi]
you killed paje for your folks!
21:12:57 [denshi]
okay, I'll stop that. did you take your GREs?
21:13:04 [rbm]
Oh, I forgot to bring it back up
21:13:13 [rbm]
Yeah. It was intense
21:13:14 [talli]
* talli lets out a massive <GASP>
21:13:22 [talli]
you didn't touch your computer!!!!????
21:14:51 [rbm]
I did, but barely
21:15:02 [talli]
were you shaking from withdrawal?
21:15:05 [talli]
dry mouth?
21:15:06 [talli]
fever?
21:15:11 [talli]
sweaty palms?
21:15:26 [talli]
hairy palms?
21:15:56 [rbm]
I had some abstinence syndrome symptoms, but the joy of having my parents around helped me to get through it
21:17:23 [talli]
abstinence syndrome?
21:17:36 [rbm]
hum hum
21:17:39 [talli]
* talli adds to his already long list of ailments
21:18:37 [rbm]
talli: The things you mentioned are abstinence syndrome symptoms
21:19:03 [talli]
especially the hairy palms part
22:07:31 [talli]
who's home this eve?
22:07:33 [pete_openmsg]
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22:11:48 [cro]
I'm still at work
22:11:55 [cro]
but it's only 3:10 for me
22:13:32 [talli]
hey cro
22:13:37 [cro]
yo
22:38:51 [shagster]
absitience from what though?
22:41:31 [talli]
oh, look who's here
22:41:37 [talli]
it's the Abstinence Maker
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