00:19:29 docwolf (~afarkas@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 00:46:28 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:51:34 i miss paje 00:54:44 hi spork 01:00:08 hey dave 01:00:59 Gentoo is definetly something I like 01:02:02 really. 01:02:07 it is a bsd-like linux? 01:03:23 docwolf has left #openacs 01:03:54 very much so 01:04:18 I haven't snooped around the file system layout too much yet but it doesn't even install vi by default LOL 01:04:36 it installs nano (a pico clone) 01:11:43 that is cool. I like a nothing by default distro that is easy to add stuff to. 01:11:55 gentoooooo! 01:12:30 they update their tree every minute or so 01:12:46 every time I ran emerge rsync it would get new files 01:13:45 stop off in #gentoo lol and look for yourself 01:16:37 Spork: what desktop are you using with gentoo? 01:17:11 the only reason i didn't switch all my boxes over to gentoo (just have one for testing) was my inability to get kde3 to compile properly :-( 01:17:21 I love Xfce 01:17:49 cool. 01:18:20 I hate Gnome and KDE....I consider them noob wm's 01:18:53 plus, they used to have problems and used to be bloated 01:18:56 not sure about them now 01:19:26 KDE is really, really good 01:19:32 (one wolf's opinion.) 01:19:37 i use to use only windowmaker, cause it was lightweight... 01:19:39 KDE2 was not ready for prime time 01:19:49 KDE3 is something i'd feel comfortable putting in front of my mom/ 01:19:49 yup, my 2nd fav is WindowMaker 01:19:50 i tried gnome, it crashed and burned too many times 01:20:13 xfce is like window maker 01:20:13 kde3 is pretty sweet, what i've seen anyways from running a beta. 01:20:29 i thought xfce was a lightweight desktop? 01:20:42 both 01:20:48 it's a desktop and window maker 01:20:57 I mean manager 01:20:57 lol 01:21:49 It's very light weight and easy to customize..it might not be a very very customizable desktop/wm but it does everything I ever needed 01:22:05 I nmaped my gentoo install... 01:22:16 hows it look? 01:22:18 The only port that was open was X...6000 01:24:15 for some reason i can't get work done at work till after everyone leaves... 01:24:39 lol 01:25:05 docwolf (~afarkas@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 01:25:23 * Spork watches the pod race 01:25:35 yarrrgh.. i'm still having problems with gnome 01:25:42 beh 01:25:47 You came to the right place 01:25:52 we're discussing window managers 01:25:54 i'm about to give up on it 01:26:01 and stick with KDE 01:26:01 Try www.xfce.org 01:26:07 KDE actually works well. 01:26:12 i'm using KDE3 on a very wimpy machine 01:26:14 and it's fine. 01:26:46 gnome just looks like a project without a purpose 01:27:20 it was heavily backed by redhat, and then redhat one day decided "whoops, we're not in the desktop business". 01:28:11 I stay away from KDE and Gnome 01:28:16 xfce works juuuust fine 01:29:16 yeah 01:29:21 i guess that's the cool part about linux 01:29:27 you can just use whatever you want 01:29:35 :) 01:29:44 hell, if I was into that and had time, I'd write my own 01:29:48 heh 01:32:26 Gentoo is cool though 01:32:38 if you've got the time :-) 01:32:50 how much better does it perform than a stock distro? 01:33:05 does recompiling everything make a difference? 01:33:17 Well...an average joe...no 01:33:34 reason: they don't know how to "tweak" their make files and all that other stuff (unless Gentoo does that for you) 01:33:47 I personally don't know since I fall into the "Don't know how to tweak makefiles" category 01:34:04 However, this is not the only reason that I like Gentoo 01:34:23 install redhat, mandrake or any other generic run of the mill linux distro and port scan it 01:34:42 I did that...Open ports on Gentoo without X: 0 with X: 1 01:35:14 It doesn't install 40 different text editors you don't know how to use, nor does it install 24 different terminals 01:35:45 cool 01:35:54 yeah I think it is 01:36:08 But you're right, it takes a while to compile all the things 01:36:36 Although upon reflection it doesn't take any longer since you're only installing the things you need ;) 01:48:09 well... 01:48:11 bed time 01:50:30 til has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:58:35 the compilation adds quite a bit of speed imo. 01:58:45 everything from the kernel down to the libraries. 01:59:05 it comes with preset levels of optimization, which you can tweak to get a lean, mean machine. 01:59:25 plus with the automatic upgrades it will do well as a server platform imo. 02:01:49 cool 02:11:18 til (~tils@62.116.19.11) has joined #openacs 03:34:34 jim, you alive? 03:34:55 this channel is a wasteland without paje to run it. 03:35:02 heh 03:35:13 yeah, there's nobody to attack mark and feed him cookies 03:35:17 I'm very disappointed 03:38:40 well, attacking mark is just a hard piece of business 03:38:52 yeah but somebody has to do it 03:39:00 and frankly, i'd rather have Paje do that 03:40:08 he's hidden himself up in some survivalist compound in central penn with his weapons, cookies, and a debugger 03:40:19 mark or paje? 03:40:21 mark 03:40:24 oh 03:41:13 I hear he's armed with a military-grade trombone 03:41:52 you can violate 10 noise ordanances with that, and it's versatile in close-in brawling as well 03:42:26 hmmmmm 03:42:31 I'll stick to my cookies and milk 05:04:40 denshi has quit () 05:30:31 talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:43:25 mega-wolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:29:35 anyone alive? 10:29:54 i am trying to install site wide search for the first time and could need some advice 10:43:20 hi til 10:43:24 for postgresql? 10:43:25 hi dave 10:43:49 well that's the first question ;) ... first for pg, but later i need it for oracle 10:44:10 they are unrelated at this time. 10:44:15 i suppose the "search" package is only for pg, right? 10:44:32 site-wide-search uses acs-interface and it built totally differently than search. 10:44:40 search uses acs-service contract. 10:45:12 there were plans to rewrite the oracle version to use search, and just write new service contracts so that they would use the same user interface pages. 10:47:05 what are the plans for site-wide-search? phase out? 10:50:24 yes. last I heard anyway. 10:50:25 that way if I write a search service contract for bboard, it will work with oracle or postgreql. 10:50:26 that is a ways off though. unless someone ports search to oracle also. 10:51:28 sigh 10:52:03 what are you trying to do? start with postgresql and migrate to oracle? 10:52:28 no, 2 projects that both need search, one is pg and the other oracle 10:52:42 ah, so you need to learn both. 10:53:24 I looked at converting site-wide-search to acs-service-contract, but the incredible amount of dynamic sql tricks required to work with intermedia made my head spin. 10:54:27 thanks for the info 10:55:02 np 10:55:14 dynamic sql tricks? brr 10:55:47 intermedia does not seem to have the best reputation 10:55:50 intermedia runs in a seperate tablespace iirc. 10:56:02 great 10:56:09 you need to write a pl/sql proc for each content-type and alias it into the intermedia tablespace. 10:56:51 sounds like overkill for a simple search enabled web site 10:57:08 yes. intermedia is super powerful, but really complex to implement. 10:57:28 are there alternatives on oracle? 10:57:44 probably, but not that I am aware of. 10:58:06 I don't know how difficult it is to enable a new content-type. bboard, news, and a couple other packages I think are already in there. 10:58:08 with the abstraction in the search package one wont be able to use all that power anyway, i guess 10:59:42 ah, there is one .sql file for each searchable content type in sws 10:59:53 also pot.sql, whatever that is ;) 11:01:31 I never actually installd the intermedia search :( there are instructions in there, make sure you follow the steps. 11:02:43 sws seems to have a search result summary too, which sounds useful (if not essential) 11:02:58 i wonder if search has that too 11:03:50 I am not sure what that means... 11:04:36 search has a very google-like default interface. 11:05:01 it seems to generate a short abstract (summary) of the search result to display on the results listing 11:05:17 * til remembers that there is this great demo at thedesignexperience 11:06:35 ok. search does.its part of the service-contract, so each package can decide how to provide the summary. 11:07:58 ok, cool. i missed that at the first glance. silly to assume it was left out ... 11:08:57 can't find a link to search on your site 11:26:58 oops :) 11:27:09 www.thedesignexperience.org/search 11:27:44 obvious, somehow ;) 11:28:37 request error ... hmm 11:29:10 oops. 11:29:26 looks like it did _not_ get recreated correctly when I restores the database.... 12:01:37 ack, my error log is 230 mb 12:02:59 echo "" > error.log 12:11:13 so the person porting search to oracle would have to write a intermedia-driver package, similar to the openfts-driver package, right? 12:11:28 unless there are alternatives to intermedia 13:12:50 morning 13:31:13 larspind has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:32:15 denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625176-26.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs 14:35:19 cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs 14:56:00 denshi has quit () 14:57:12 denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625176-26.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs 15:39:52 talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-237-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 15:39:58 yoyoyo 15:40:04 yo 15:40:09 hey 15:40:16 hello cro, Spork 15:40:24 i see donb has joined us as well 15:40:57 who else is here this morning? 15:41:59 not paje 15:42:51 dar! 15:42:53 where's rbm? 15:43:43 where's donb? i got some PG scalability questions for him... 15:43:57 he's been idle for a long time 15:44:00 maybe he's off drinking that "coffee" he's always raving about 15:44:04 lol 15:44:11 i once had a professor that drank "coffee" 15:44:21 he was fired midway through the quarter for being a lush 15:45:30 interestingly enough, websphere has DB pooling 15:45:59 http://www-3.ibm.com/software/webservers/appserv/whitepapers/connection_pool.pdf 15:46:00 A: http://www-3.ibm.com/software/webservers/appserv/whitepapers/connection_pool.pdf from talli 15:46:12 A: Websphere connection pooling 15:46:12 added comment A1 15:48:02 til: re intermedia: exactly 15:48:18 davb: thanks 15:49:45 ah, apparently, reloading intarray didn't work, i need to reinstall all the search stuff due to the lack of create or replace in pg 7.1 15:50:05 Hey, after a db_dml statement is there any way to get the number of rows that were affected? 15:52:26 cro: db_resultrows? 15:52:33 thanks 15:52:43 not sure if it is implemented 15:54:11 davb: another complication for pg backups, brr 15:54:22 til: Looks like it is, thanks! 16:01:31 davb (or any other search guru): how would search/site-wide-search deal with static pages? (e.g. text that is written in .adp pages) 16:02:40 til: In ACS 3.4 there was a proc that would scan the fs for static pages and stuff their content into the database. 16:02:59 You can to re-scan every so often 16:03:16 had to I mean 16:03:46 and in 4.x ? 16:04:11 I think it's still done that way, but I think the "pages in the FS" part wasn't fully implemented. 16:04:22 And my programmer did some work in that area. 16:04:41 A big problem with the old way was that the pages were picked up right out of the FS 16:04:57 so if you set headers, etc (or templated) the title and other items wouldn't get put in the search index. 16:05:26 My (naive) soln to that was to use something like wget or curl to walk the server and put the content in that way 16:05:33 I'm not sure if that's how my programmer did it. 16:05:38 I'll have to ask him 16:05:55 wow, you have your own programmer ;) 16:06:01 Well, we both program 16:06:04 i want one too 16:06:12 we're a small shop. 16:06:42 this has nothing at all to do with the static-pages package, right? 16:06:52 umm. I think not 16:07:04 sorry, I'm fuzzy on these details. 16:07:31 np - it points me in the right direction 17:26:24 mega-wolf (~zapp@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 17:35:43 worst... hd failure... ever. 17:39:31 mega-wolf has quit ("What happens if i press this bu") 18:00:02 donb has quit ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?") 18:16:12 til: static-pages, for pg, is search enabled. 18:17:15 i see 18:17:39 that makes sense 18:19:36 i was just aim'ing with bduell, cro's colleague, who is working on a solution that wget's all pages and stuffs them into acs-content for site-wide-search 18:20:26 he says it'll take some time until it is finished because he suffers from the common time deprivation syndrome, but it might be published in 3 weeks 18:50:35 quick question 18:50:42 can linux read & write NTFS partitions? 18:51:15 read & destroy, yes 18:51:23 :-( 18:52:05 sorry, this was an uninformed, unfair joke ... i know reading works. writing was experimental last time i checked (which is quite a time ago) 18:52:33 o 18:52:42 i'm setting up a dual-boot machine right now with win2k & linux 18:52:45 * til gets beaten by a huge plush penguin 18:53:27 and i'm wondering about partioning the drive 18:55:59 should i just stick with FAT? 18:57:42 i think i'll stick with FAT. 18:57:45 it seems to work OK. 18:58:44 sorry, no idea about windows partitions 18:59:39 i have a bone to pick with IBM about the quality of their hard drives. 18:59:55 i know they just exited the business, so even they must have some shame. 19:01:27 yeah. seems their hd-controllers suck too - my thinkpad is in service right now 19:01:52 this travelstar in my dell is 1 year old 19:01:53 i thought the harddrive was broken and ordered a new one -> same error 19:01:58 and it starts making a horrible racket 19:02:02 docwolf has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.1") 19:04:09 docwolf (~afarkas@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 19:04:20 whoa. that was odd. 19:04:28 anyway, this travelstar is 1 year old. 19:04:41 and suddenly starts making a "click click BANG" noise 19:05:00 i just removed it today, and when you shake it, it sounds like a bb in an empty coke can. 19:05:09 totally lame. 19:05:34 exactly the same noises on my laptop 19:05:44 really? 19:05:48 what capacity was your drive? 19:05:51 DELL SUCKS!!!! 19:05:54 (do you know the model #) 19:05:55 18G 19:05:58 ahh. talli's out of his coma 19:06:13 did it hang forever once the "click click BANG" startedf 19:06:18 ? 19:06:25 mine was the 32gig (same drive as yours, i think, but with 2x the platters) 19:06:30 it didn't hang, but the errors were increasing 19:06:33 so it was slowing down 19:06:38 then it started to intermittently hang 19:06:45 fortunately, its replacement arrived today. 19:06:50 (another travelstar... yikes.) 19:06:58 hmm. well if your new one works fine it cannot be the same error 19:07:12 yeah.. the new one looks like it was built a month ago 19:07:20 in hungary. the old one was built in 2000.. in thailand 19:07:31 so we'll see if its a design problem, or a QC problem 19:07:42 any data on it? secret gulash recipes? 19:08:08 [to talli]: What me to call Dell for ya? :) 19:08:25 please do 19:08:32 Umm, want *grr* I need more coffie :) 19:08:35 they make crap laptops 19:08:44 til: i don't think my countrymen will let me down 19:08:45 me too 19:09:07 (or.. at least i hope not.. i'm guessing my ancestors left hungary b/c it wasn't exactly a stellar place to life) 19:09:36 [to tallie]: Yes, they do. I don't think I've know anybody to be happy with a dell laptop 19:09:48 (cut to a scene of a soot-covered factory, where an angry Tbor spits in every 3rd travelstar's platter) 19:10:13 haah 19:10:25 i mean haha of course 19:10:57 actually, though, i decided to replace the drive with a different model travelstar... a slower one. 19:11:15 hopefully it'll be more reliable (?) 19:13:11 Actually, we've been very happy with our Dell Latitudes, we have about 10 of them. 19:13:48 You are the expection to the rule that I hvae seen 19:14:11 shag: what kinds of problems do you see? 19:14:19 Of course any Data General system sucks *grr* 19:15:02 I've seen poor qualtiy machines (things not fitting together right) bad screens, bad drivers, poor battery performance 19:15:09 wow 19:15:38 That was about 18 months ago. Switch to IBM machines (more expenesive though) and I've been perfectly happy 19:16:21 IBM must be saving the good HDDs for themselves. 19:16:22 And Dell's customer service was less than stellar 19:16:41 Unfortunately unless IBM offers touch pads, my users hate the TrackPoint devices, and I actually think the TrackPoint contributed to my RSI problems. 19:16:56 bbl 19:18:03 docwolf: why don't you get something besides a TravelStar drive? 19:18:25 cro: unfortunately, 2 reasons.. 19:18:32 it was unclear if the large capacity toshiba would fit in this machine 19:18:37 (it is taller than the travelstar) and... 19:18:41 [to cro]: I've never had a problem with it 19:18:45 i needed the drive immediately... 19:19:13 it is unfortunate that there isn't greater choice in the 2.5" market. 19:20:13 i also bought a cool little device that will hopefully prevent such disasters 19:20:52 http://www.videowarriorstraining.com/hardware_pyro_notebookdrivekit.htm 19:20:55 B: http://www.videowarriorstraining.com/hardware_pyro_notebookdrivekit.htm from docwolf 19:21:13 you shove a 2.5" drive into this thing and use it as an "external" drive. 19:21:27 it's easy to use something like driveimage to 'ghost' your existing drive. 19:21:40 cheap insurance in case of a travelstar-induced meltdown. 19:21:51 I need to learn a hardcore unix mail client 19:22:09 I see 19:22:55 i guess firewire & linux don't get along yet, unfortunately :-( 19:23:20 they're just catching up to USB 19:24:01 sad. 19:25:46 not necessarily 19:26:07 assuming the USB devices won't randomly crash your system I would say they will quickly get ahead of Microsoft 19:26:48 right, but without stuff like 1394 working in the kernel 19:27:03 it will come 19:27:05 even cooperative manufacturers can't really work with linux to get their firewire products on board 19:27:16 (like my li'l 2.5" drive caddy) 19:27:36 i assume that Linus et cetera are working on it for 2.6? 19:27:53 most likely 19:28:09 At least Linux is more bleeding edge than BSD 19:28:21 It will be another 2 years before BSD gets Firewire 19:28:35 not really designed for desktops :) 19:28:59 yeha 19:29:12 but stable :) 19:29:13 linux is getting really close to being OK for desktop use. 19:29:18 (for normal people, i mean..) 19:29:20 tracy adams lives! 19:29:29 you mean for smarter than average people 19:29:48 docwolf has left #openacs 19:29:50 poor lady. now she *has* to work with the oacs community. 19:29:57 ? 19:30:04 * Spork gives talli his daily medicine 19:30:13 an aD founder 19:30:24 * cro is embarrassed: thought Tracy was male 19:30:53 docwolf (~afarkas@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 19:31:04 wb 19:32:04 docwolf: you're friend from aD is posting to the bboards 19:34:22 uh oh 19:35:36 tracy is still with arsdigita? 19:35:41 there is still an arsdigita? 19:36:26 yep, owned by redhat now 19:36:33 donb (~donb@dsl-dhogaza.pacifier.net) has joined #openacs 19:36:41 Yo Don 19:36:57 hey donb 19:37:11 hey don, are you part of that Angry Mob in Portland? 19:37:23 the one that's looking for billg's head on a stake? 19:38:08 I haven't heard about this ... 19:38:24 Oh ... you mean the issue with the schools? 19:38:29 The audit? 19:38:36 yeah 19:38:46 i don't understand MS at all... why piss on people in their own backyard? 19:39:01 you'd think they would at least try to chase a district in like...detroit or something.. 19:39:18 Not part of it, but a columnist for the Oregonian had an excellent piece that ended up on Slashdot. The columnist not only could spell "Linux" but had taken the time to get himself informed 19:39:32 Well ... they're also after the Seattle school district 19:39:59 I'm just here for a few minutes ... 19:40:06 anything exciting happening? 19:40:19 I have a question, but don't know if it's exciting. : 19:40:26 :-) 19:40:27 Fire away 19:40:40 I asked about this on the bboard and hadn't yet got a response 19:41:01 it looks like Mozilla 1.0 RC1 is handling cookies sent to servers on non-standard 19:41:06 ports a lot different than IE 19:41:19 Sorry, need to back up a little 19:41:39 If I put up a stock install of the current CVS of oacs and hit it with 19:41:47 IE6 to login 19:41:53 re 19:42:07 it behaves differently than it does on Mozilla 1.0RC1 19:42:09 i have an exciting question: any new volunteers for porting the search package to oracle? or should i use site-wide search for that oracle project that should have started yesterday? 19:42:41 I note that a lot of people here are using chatzilla, implying that they test with Mozilla 19:42:55 I was wondering if anyone knew of cookie handling problems with Moz RC1 19:42:58 til - I'd love to see the search package ported over to Oracle, we should only have one. No one stepped up to the plate on that and Neophytos didn't have a machine big enough for Oracle at a time 19:43:39 I see this esp if the server is running http and https on nonstandard ports. 19:43:42 c.r. I have had no problems with cookies and 1.0RC1 at all. We're using cookies to track user language and national organization persistently on the Greenpeace site and they seem to work fine. 19:43:45 donb: yeah, i saw that posting that there's nobody that wants to do it. oh well 19:43:59 But if you have time I'd love it, tilmann ... 19:44:12 ok, I've dug into it a little and haven't come up with anything yet. 19:44:23 Something is definitely broken when running on nonstandard ports 19:44:49 but reading the spec it seems like the cookie should be returned to the server regardless of what port the server is running on 19:44:51 c.r. greenpeace runs on port 80 because of some stupidness on the now-fired previous consulting company but I normally run my test and development stuff on port 8000. However I don't routinely install ssl ... 19:45:01 ah, then you probably wouldn't see it. 19:45:05 Yes, it should. 19:45:11 RIght I probably wouldn't ... 19:45:22 wish i had the time, sorry 19:45:53 I'm *pretty* sure oacs is doing the "right thing" 19:46:17 The thing to do is to write a simple Tcl script, run it without OpenACS, just stick it in a page root by itself, and have it send and receive cookies you type at it or hardwire in. See if you can make it get blanks back or something like that when you hit on one port then the other (http/https). 19:46:36 hey, that's a good idea. Weekend project for me. :-) 19:46:36 Are you running mozRC1 under windows? 19:46:39 Yes 19:47:15 I probably should try with a nightly build. 19:47:40 I know mozRC1 under linux is still quite buggy. Their 1.0 will be a log buggier than OpenOffice 1.0 (which BTW works really great for me under linux, I've been reading and writing .doc and .xls files with no problem) 19:47:57 "Done loading package .info files" OK onto the next step ... 19:48:16 donb: since you've been working with MIT for a bit, do you know anything about student information systems for entire school districs? that's a large question, but... 19:48:28 wondering if you knew who the main players were 19:48:38 No, I don't, sorry 19:48:58