IRC log of openacs on 2002-05-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:19:29 [docwolf]

docwolf (~afarkas@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

00:46:28 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

00:51:34 [Spork]

i miss paje

00:54:44 [davb]

hi spork

01:00:08 [Spork]

hey dave

01:00:59 [Spork]

Gentoo is definetly something I like

01:02:02 [davb]

really.

01:02:07 [davb]

it is a bsd-like linux?

01:03:23 [docwolf]

docwolf has left #openacs

01:03:54 [Spork]

very much so

01:04:18 [Spork]

I haven't snooped around the file system layout too much yet but it doesn't even install vi by default LOL

01:04:36 [Spork]

it installs nano (a pico clone)

01:11:43 [davb]

that is cool. I like a nothing by default distro that is easy to add stuff to.

01:11:55 [Spork]

gentoooooo!

01:12:30 [Spork]

they update their tree every minute or so

01:12:46 [Spork]

every time I ran emerge rsync it would get new files

01:13:45 [Spork]

stop off in #gentoo lol and look for yourself

01:16:37 [lethedrinker]

Spork: what desktop are you using with gentoo?

01:17:11 [lethedrinker]

the only reason i didn't switch all my boxes over to gentoo (just have one for testing) was my inability to get kde3 to compile properly :-(

01:17:21 [Spork]

I love Xfce

01:17:49 [lethedrinker]

cool.

01:18:20 [Spork]

I hate Gnome and KDE....I consider them noob wm's

01:18:53 [Spork]

plus, they used to have problems and used to be bloated

01:18:56 [Spork]

not sure about them now

01:19:26 [mega-wolf]

KDE is really, really good

01:19:32 [mega-wolf]

(one wolf's opinion.)

01:19:37 [lethedrinker]

i use to use only windowmaker, cause it was lightweight...

01:19:39 [mega-wolf]

KDE2 was not ready for prime time

01:19:49 [mega-wolf]

KDE3 is something i'd feel comfortable putting in front of my mom/

01:19:49 [Spork]

yup, my 2nd fav is WindowMaker

01:19:50 [lethedrinker]

i tried gnome, it crashed and burned too many times

01:20:13 [Spork]

xfce is like window maker

01:20:13 [lethedrinker]

kde3 is pretty sweet, what i've seen anyways from running a beta.

01:20:29 [lethedrinker]

i thought xfce was a lightweight desktop?

01:20:42 [Spork]

both

01:20:48 [Spork]

it's a desktop and window maker

01:20:57 [Spork]

I mean manager

01:20:57 [Spork]

lol

01:21:49 [Spork]

It's very light weight and easy to customize..it might not be a very very customizable desktop/wm but it does everything I ever needed

01:22:05 [Spork]

I nmaped my gentoo install...

01:22:16 [lethedrinker]

hows it look?

01:22:18 [Spork]

The only port that was open was X...6000

01:24:15 [lethedrinker]

for some reason i can't get work done at work till after everyone leaves...

01:24:39 [Spork]

lol

01:25:05 [docwolf]

docwolf (~afarkas@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

01:25:23 [Spork]

* Spork watches the pod race

01:25:35 [docwolf]

yarrrgh.. i'm still having problems with gnome

01:25:42 [Spork]

beh

01:25:47 [Spork]

You came to the right place

01:25:52 [Spork]

we're discussing window managers

01:25:54 [docwolf]

i'm about to give up on it

01:26:01 [docwolf]

and stick with KDE

01:26:01 [Spork]

Try www.xfce.org

01:26:07 [docwolf]

KDE actually works well.

01:26:12 [docwolf]

i'm using KDE3 on a very wimpy machine

01:26:14 [docwolf]

and it's fine.

01:26:46 [docwolf]

gnome just looks like a project without a purpose

01:27:20 [docwolf]

it was heavily backed by redhat, and then redhat one day decided "whoops, we're not in the desktop business".

01:28:11 [Spork]

I stay away from KDE and Gnome

01:28:16 [Spork]

xfce works juuuust fine

01:29:16 [docwolf]

yeah

01:29:21 [docwolf]

i guess that's the cool part about linux

01:29:27 [docwolf]

you can just use whatever you want

01:29:35 [Spork]

:)

01:29:44 [Spork]

hell, if I was into that and had time, I'd write my own

01:29:48 [docwolf]

heh

01:32:26 [Spork]

Gentoo is cool though

01:32:38 [docwolf]

if you've got the time :-)

01:32:50 [docwolf]

how much better does it perform than a stock distro?

01:33:05 [docwolf]

does recompiling everything make a difference?

01:33:17 [Spork]

Well...an average joe...no

01:33:34 [Spork]

reason: they don't know how to "tweak" their make files and all that other stuff (unless Gentoo does that for you)

01:33:47 [Spork]

I personally don't know since I fall into the "Don't know how to tweak makefiles" category

01:34:04 [Spork]

However, this is not the only reason that I like Gentoo

01:34:23 [Spork]

install redhat, mandrake or any other generic run of the mill linux distro and port scan it

01:34:42 [Spork]

I did that...Open ports on Gentoo without X: 0 with X: 1

01:35:14 [Spork]

It doesn't install 40 different text editors you don't know how to use, nor does it install 24 different terminals

01:35:45 [docwolf]

cool

01:35:54 [Spork]

yeah I think it is

01:36:08 [Spork]

But you're right, it takes a while to compile all the things

01:36:36 [Spork]

Although upon reflection it doesn't take any longer since you're only installing the things you need ;)

01:48:09 [Spork]

well...

01:48:11 [Spork]

bed time

01:50:30 [til]

til has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)

01:58:35 [lethedrinker]

the compilation adds quite a bit of speed imo.

01:58:45 [lethedrinker]

everything from the kernel down to the libraries.

01:59:05 [lethedrinker]

it comes with preset levels of optimization, which you can tweak to get a lean, mean machine.

01:59:25 [lethedrinker]

plus with the automatic upgrades it will do well as a server platform imo.

02:01:49 [docwolf]

cool

02:11:18 [til]

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03:34:34 [denshi]

jim, you alive?

03:34:55 [denshi]

this channel is a wasteland without paje to run it.

03:35:02 [Spork]

heh

03:35:13 [Spork]

yeah, there's nobody to attack mark and feed him cookies

03:35:17 [Spork]

I'm very disappointed

03:38:40 [denshi]

well, attacking mark is just a hard piece of business

03:38:52 [Spork]

yeah but somebody has to do it

03:39:00 [Spork]

and frankly, i'd rather have Paje do that

03:40:08 [denshi]

he's hidden himself up in some survivalist compound in central penn with his weapons, cookies, and a debugger

03:40:19 [Spork]

mark or paje?

03:40:21 [denshi]

mark

03:40:24 [Spork]

oh

03:41:13 [denshi]

I hear he's armed with a military-grade trombone

03:41:52 [denshi]

you can violate 10 noise ordanances with that, and it's versatile in close-in brawling as well

03:42:26 [Spork]

hmmmmm

03:42:31 [Spork]

I'll stick to my cookies and milk

05:04:40 [denshi]

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05:30:31 [talli]

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05:43:25 [mega-wolf]

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10:29:35 [til]

anyone alive?

10:29:54 [til]

i am trying to install site wide search for the first time and could need some advice

10:43:20 [davb]

hi til

10:43:24 [davb]

for postgresql?

10:43:25 [til]

hi dave

10:43:49 [til]

well that's the first question ;) ... first for pg, but later i need it for oracle

10:44:10 [davb]

they are unrelated at this time.

10:44:15 [til]

i suppose the "search" package is only for pg, right?

10:44:32 [davb]

site-wide-search uses acs-interface and it built totally differently than search.

10:44:40 [davb]

search uses acs-service contract.

10:45:12 [davb]

there were plans to rewrite the oracle version to use search, and just write new service contracts so that they would use the same user interface pages.

10:47:05 [til]

what are the plans for site-wide-search? phase out?

10:50:24 [davb]

yes. last I heard anyway.

10:50:25 [davb]

that way if I write a search service contract for bboard, it will work with oracle or postgreql.

10:50:26 [davb]

that is a ways off though. unless someone ports search to oracle also.

10:51:28 [til]

sigh

10:52:03 [davb]

what are you trying to do? start with postgresql and migrate to oracle?

10:52:28 [til]

no, 2 projects that both need search, one is pg and the other oracle

10:52:42 [davb]

ah, so you need to learn both.

10:53:24 [davb]

I looked at converting site-wide-search to acs-service-contract, but the incredible amount of dynamic sql tricks required to work with intermedia made my head spin.

10:54:27 [til]

thanks for the info

10:55:02 [davb]

np

10:55:14 [til]

dynamic sql tricks? brr

10:55:47 [til]

intermedia does not seem to have the best reputation

10:55:50 [davb]

intermedia runs in a seperate tablespace iirc.

10:56:02 [til]

great

10:56:09 [davb]

you need to write a pl/sql proc for each content-type and alias it into the intermedia tablespace.

10:56:51 [til]

sounds like overkill for a simple search enabled web site

10:57:08 [davb]

yes. intermedia is super powerful, but really complex to implement.

10:57:28 [til]

are there alternatives on oracle?

10:57:44 [davb]

probably, but not that I am aware of.

10:58:06 [davb]

I don't know how difficult it is to enable a new content-type. bboard, news, and a couple other packages I think are already in there.

10:58:08 [til]

with the abstraction in the search package one wont be able to use all that power anyway, i guess

10:59:42 [til]

ah, there is one .sql file for each searchable content type in sws

10:59:53 [til]

also pot.sql, whatever that is ;)

11:01:31 [davb]

I never actually installd the intermedia search :( there are instructions in there, make sure you follow the steps.

11:02:43 [til]

sws seems to have a search result summary too, which sounds useful (if not essential)

11:02:58 [til]

i wonder if search has that too

11:03:50 [davb]

I am not sure what that means...

11:04:36 [davb]

search has a very google-like default interface.

11:05:01 [til]

it seems to generate a short abstract (summary) of the search result to display on the results listing

11:05:17 [til]

* til remembers that there is this great demo at thedesignexperience

11:06:35 [davb]

ok. search does.its part of the service-contract, so each package can decide how to provide the summary.

11:07:58 [til]

ok, cool. i missed that at the first glance. silly to assume it was left out ...

11:08:57 [til]

can't find a link to search on your site

11:26:58 [davb]

oops :)

11:27:09 [davb]

www.thedesignexperience.org/search

11:27:44 [til]

obvious, somehow ;)

11:28:37 [til]

request error ... hmm

11:29:10 [davb]

oops.

11:29:26 [davb]

looks like it did _not_ get recreated correctly when I restores the database....

12:01:37 [davb]

ack, my error log is 230 mb

12:02:59 [til]

echo "" > error.log

12:11:13 [til]

so the person porting search to oracle would have to write a intermedia-driver package, similar to the openfts-driver package, right?

12:11:28 [til]

unless there are alternatives to intermedia

13:12:50 [Spork]

morning

13:31:13 [larspind]

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14:32:15 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625176-26.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs

14:35:19 [cro]

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14:57:12 [denshi]

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15:39:52 [talli]

talli (~chatzilla@pool-162-83-237-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs

15:39:58 [talli]

yoyoyo

15:40:04 [cro]

yo

15:40:09 [Spork]

hey

15:40:16 [talli]

hello cro, Spork

15:40:24 [talli]

i see donb has joined us as well

15:40:57 [talli]

who else is here this morning?

15:41:59 [Spork]

not paje

15:42:51 [talli]

dar!

15:42:53 [talli]

where's rbm?

15:43:43 [talli]

where's donb? i got some PG scalability questions for him...

15:43:57 [Spork]

he's been idle for a long time

15:44:00 [talli]

maybe he's off drinking that "coffee" he's always raving about

15:44:04 [Spork]

lol

15:44:11 [talli]

i once had a professor that drank "coffee"

15:44:21 [talli]

he was fired midway through the quarter for being a lush

15:45:30 [talli]

interestingly enough, websphere has DB pooling

15:45:59 [talli]

http://www-3.ibm.com/software/webservers/appserv/whitepapers/connection_pool.pdf

15:46:00 [oacs-chump]

A: http://www-3.ibm.com/software/webservers/appserv/whitepapers/connection_pool.pdf from talli

15:46:12 [talli]

A: Websphere connection pooling

15:46:12 [oacs-chump]

added comment A1

15:48:02 [davb]

til: re intermedia: exactly

15:48:18 [til]

davb: thanks

15:49:45 [davb]

ah, apparently, reloading intarray didn't work, i need to reinstall all the search stuff due to the lack of create or replace in pg 7.1

15:50:05 [cro]

Hey, after a db_dml statement is there any way to get the number of rows that were affected?

15:52:26 [til]

cro: db_resultrows?

15:52:33 [cro]

thanks

15:52:43 [til]

not sure if it is implemented

15:54:11 [til]

davb: another complication for pg backups, brr

15:54:22 [cro]

til: Looks like it is, thanks!

16:01:31 [til]

davb (or any other search guru): how would search/site-wide-search deal with static pages? (e.g. text that is written in .adp pages)

16:02:40 [cro]

til: In ACS 3.4 there was a proc that would scan the fs for static pages and stuff their content into the database.

16:02:59 [cro]

You can to re-scan every so often

16:03:16 [cro]

had to I mean

16:03:46 [til]

and in 4.x ?

16:04:11 [cro]

I think it's still done that way, but I think the "pages in the FS" part wasn't fully implemented.

16:04:22 [cro]

And my programmer did some work in that area.

16:04:41 [cro]

A big problem with the old way was that the pages were picked up right out of the FS

16:04:57 [cro]

so if you set headers, etc (or templated) the title and other items wouldn't get put in the search index.

16:05:26 [cro]

My (naive) soln to that was to use something like wget or curl to walk the server and put the content in that way

16:05:33 [cro]

I'm not sure if that's how my programmer did it.

16:05:38 [cro]

I'll have to ask him

16:05:55 [til]

wow, you have your own programmer ;)

16:06:01 [cro]

Well, we both program

16:06:04 [til]

i want one too

16:06:12 [cro]

we're a small shop.

16:06:42 [til]

this has nothing at all to do with the static-pages package, right?

16:06:52 [cro]

umm. I think not

16:07:04 [cro]

sorry, I'm fuzzy on these details.

16:07:31 [til]

np - it points me in the right direction

17:26:24 [mega-wolf]

mega-wolf (~zapp@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

17:35:43 [mega-wolf]

worst... hd failure... ever.

17:39:31 [mega-wolf]

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18:00:02 [donb]

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18:16:12 [davb]

til: static-pages, for pg, is search enabled.

18:17:15 [til]

i see

18:17:39 [til]

that makes sense

18:19:36 [til]

i was just aim'ing with bduell, cro's colleague, who is working on a solution that wget's all pages and stuffs them into acs-content for site-wide-search

18:20:26 [til]

he says it'll take some time until it is finished because he suffers from the common time deprivation syndrome, but it might be published in 3 weeks

18:50:35 [docwolf]

quick question

18:50:42 [docwolf]

can linux read & write NTFS partitions?

18:51:15 [til]

read & destroy, yes

18:51:23 [docwolf]

:-(

18:52:05 [til]

sorry, this was an uninformed, unfair joke ... i know reading works. writing was experimental last time i checked (which is quite a time ago)

18:52:33 [docwolf]

o

18:52:42 [docwolf]

i'm setting up a dual-boot machine right now with win2k & linux

18:52:45 [til]

* til gets beaten by a huge plush penguin

18:53:27 [docwolf]

and i'm wondering about partioning the drive

18:55:59 [docwolf]

should i just stick with FAT?

18:57:42 [docwolf]

i think i'll stick with FAT.

18:57:45 [docwolf]

it seems to work OK.

18:58:44 [til]

sorry, no idea about windows partitions

18:59:39 [docwolf]

i have a bone to pick with IBM about the quality of their hard drives.

18:59:55 [docwolf]

i know they just exited the business, so even they must have some shame.

19:01:27 [til]

yeah. seems their hd-controllers suck too - my thinkpad is in service right now

19:01:52 [docwolf]

this travelstar in my dell is 1 year old

19:01:53 [til]

i thought the harddrive was broken and ordered a new one -> same error

19:01:58 [docwolf]

and it starts making a horrible racket

19:02:02 [docwolf]

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19:04:09 [docwolf]

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19:04:20 [docwolf]

whoa. that was odd.

19:04:28 [docwolf]

anyway, this travelstar is 1 year old.

19:04:41 [docwolf]

and suddenly starts making a "click click BANG" noise

19:05:00 [docwolf]

i just removed it today, and when you shake it, it sounds like a bb in an empty coke can.

19:05:09 [docwolf]

totally lame.

19:05:34 [til]

exactly the same noises on my laptop

19:05:44 [docwolf]

really?

19:05:48 [docwolf]

what capacity was your drive?

19:05:51 [talli]

DELL SUCKS!!!!

19:05:54 [docwolf]

(do you know the model #)

19:05:55 [til]

18G

19:05:58 [docwolf]

ahh. talli's out of his coma

19:06:13 [til]

did it hang forever once the "click click BANG" startedf

19:06:18 [til]

?

19:06:25 [docwolf]

mine was the 32gig (same drive as yours, i think, but with 2x the platters)

19:06:30 [docwolf]

it didn't hang, but the errors were increasing

19:06:33 [docwolf]

so it was slowing down

19:06:38 [docwolf]

then it started to intermittently hang

19:06:45 [docwolf]

fortunately, its replacement arrived today.

19:06:50 [docwolf]

(another travelstar... yikes.)

19:06:58 [til]

hmm. well if your new one works fine it cannot be the same error

19:07:12 [docwolf]

yeah.. the new one looks like it was built a month ago

19:07:20 [docwolf]

in hungary. the old one was built in 2000.. in thailand

19:07:31 [docwolf]

so we'll see if its a design problem, or a QC problem

19:07:42 [til]

any data on it? secret gulash recipes?

19:08:08 [shagster]

[to talli]: What me to call Dell for ya? :)

19:08:25 [talli]

please do

19:08:32 [shagster]

Umm, want *grr* I need more coffie :)

19:08:35 [talli]

they make crap laptops

19:08:44 [docwolf]

til: i don't think my countrymen will let me down

19:08:45 [talli]

me too

19:09:07 [docwolf]

(or.. at least i hope not.. i'm guessing my ancestors left hungary b/c it wasn't exactly a stellar place to life)

19:09:36 [shagster]

[to tallie]: Yes, they do. I don't think I've know anybody to be happy with a dell laptop

19:09:48 [docwolf]

(cut to a scene of a soot-covered factory, where an angry Tbor spits in every 3rd travelstar's platter)

19:10:13 [til]

haah

19:10:25 [til]

i mean haha of course

19:10:57 [docwolf]

actually, though, i decided to replace the drive with a different model travelstar... a slower one.

19:11:15 [docwolf]

hopefully it'll be more reliable (?)

19:13:11 [cro]

Actually, we've been very happy with our Dell Latitudes, we have about 10 of them.

19:13:48 [shagster]

You are the expection to the rule that I hvae seen

19:14:11 [cro]

shag: what kinds of problems do you see?

19:14:19 [shagster]

Of course any Data General system sucks *grr*

19:15:02 [shagster]

I've seen poor qualtiy machines (things not fitting together right) bad screens, bad drivers, poor battery performance

19:15:09 [cro]

wow

19:15:38 [shagster]

That was about 18 months ago. Switch to IBM machines (more expenesive though) and I've been perfectly happy

19:16:21 [docwolf]

IBM must be saving the good HDDs for themselves.

19:16:22 [shagster]

And Dell's customer service was less than stellar

19:16:41 [cro]

Unfortunately unless IBM offers touch pads, my users hate the TrackPoint devices, and I actually think the TrackPoint contributed to my RSI problems.

19:16:56 [til]

bbl

19:18:03 [cro]

docwolf: why don't you get something besides a TravelStar drive?

19:18:25 [docwolf]

cro: unfortunately, 2 reasons..

19:18:32 [docwolf]

it was unclear if the large capacity toshiba would fit in this machine

19:18:37 [docwolf]

(it is taller than the travelstar) and...

19:18:41 [shagster]

[to cro]: I've never had a problem with it

19:18:45 [docwolf]

i needed the drive immediately...

19:19:13 [docwolf]

it is unfortunate that there isn't greater choice in the 2.5" market.

19:20:13 [docwolf]

i also bought a cool little device that will hopefully prevent such disasters

19:20:52 [docwolf]

http://www.videowarriorstraining.com/hardware_pyro_notebookdrivekit.htm

19:20:55 [oacs-chump]

B: http://www.videowarriorstraining.com/hardware_pyro_notebookdrivekit.htm from docwolf

19:21:13 [docwolf]

you shove a 2.5" drive into this thing and use it as an "external" drive.

19:21:27 [docwolf]

it's easy to use something like driveimage to 'ghost' your existing drive.

19:21:40 [docwolf]

cheap insurance in case of a travelstar-induced meltdown.

19:21:51 [Spork]

I need to learn a hardcore unix mail client

19:22:09 [cro]

I see

19:22:55 [docwolf]

i guess firewire & linux don't get along yet, unfortunately :-(

19:23:20 [Spork]

they're just catching up to USB

19:24:01 [docwolf]

sad.

19:25:46 [Spork]

not necessarily

19:26:07 [Spork]

assuming the USB devices won't randomly crash your system I would say they will quickly get ahead of Microsoft

19:26:48 [docwolf]

right, but without stuff like 1394 working in the kernel

19:27:03 [Spork]

it will come

19:27:05 [docwolf]

even cooperative manufacturers can't really work with linux to get their firewire products on board

19:27:16 [docwolf]

(like my li'l 2.5" drive caddy)

19:27:36 [docwolf]

i assume that Linus et cetera are working on it for 2.6?

19:27:53 [Spork]

most likely

19:28:09 [Spork]

At least Linux is more bleeding edge than BSD

19:28:21 [Spork]

It will be another 2 years before BSD gets Firewire

19:28:35 [Spork]

not really designed for desktops :)

19:28:59 [docwolf]

yeha

19:29:12 [Spork]

but stable :)

19:29:13 [docwolf]

linux is getting really close to being OK for desktop use.

19:29:18 [docwolf]

(for normal people, i mean..)

19:29:20 [talli]

tracy adams lives!

19:29:29 [Spork]

you mean for smarter than average people

19:29:48 [docwolf]

docwolf has left #openacs

19:29:50 [talli]

poor lady. now she *has* to work with the oacs community.

19:29:57 [Spork]

?

19:30:04 [Spork]

* Spork gives talli his daily medicine

19:30:13 [talli]

an aD founder

19:30:24 [cro]

* cro is embarrassed: thought Tracy was male

19:30:53 [docwolf]

docwolf (~afarkas@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

19:31:04 [Spork]

wb

19:32:04 [talli]

docwolf: you're friend from aD is posting to the bboards

19:34:22 [docwolf]

uh oh

19:35:36 [docwolf]

tracy is still with arsdigita?

19:35:41 [docwolf]

there is still an arsdigita?

19:36:26 [cro]

yep, owned by redhat now

19:36:33 [donb]

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19:36:41 [cro]

Yo Don

19:36:57 [talli]

hey donb

19:37:11 [docwolf]

hey don, are you part of that Angry Mob in Portland?

19:37:23 [docwolf]

the one that's looking for billg's head on a stake?

19:38:08 [donb]

I haven't heard about this ...

19:38:24 [donb]

Oh ... you mean the issue with the schools?

19:38:29 [donb]

The audit?

19:38:36 [docwolf]

yeah

19:38:46 [docwolf]

i don't understand MS at all... why piss on people in their own backyard?

19:39:01 [docwolf]

you'd think they would at least try to chase a district in like...detroit or something..

19:39:18 [donb]

Not part of it, but a columnist for the Oregonian had an excellent piece that ended up on Slashdot. The columnist not only could spell "Linux" but had taken the time to get himself informed

19:39:32 [donb]

Well ... they're also after the Seattle school district

19:39:59 [donb]

I'm just here for a few minutes ...

19:40:06 [donb]

anything exciting happening?

19:40:19 [cro]

I have a question, but don't know if it's exciting. :

19:40:26 [cro]

:-)

19:40:27 [donb]

Fire away

19:40:40 [cro]

I asked about this on the bboard and hadn't yet got a response

19:41:01 [cro]

it looks like Mozilla 1.0 RC1 is handling cookies sent to servers on non-standard

19:41:06 [cro]

ports a lot different than IE

19:41:19 [cro]

Sorry, need to back up a little

19:41:39 [cro]

If I put up a stock install of the current CVS of oacs and hit it with

19:41:47 [cro]

IE6 to login

19:41:53 [jim]

re

19:42:07 [cro]

it behaves differently than it does on Mozilla 1.0RC1

19:42:09 [til]

i have an exciting question: any new volunteers for porting the search package to oracle? or should i use site-wide search for that oracle project that should have started yesterday?

19:42:41 [cro]

I note that a lot of people here are using chatzilla, implying that they test with Mozilla

19:42:55 [cro]

I was wondering if anyone knew of cookie handling problems with Moz RC1

19:42:58 [donb]

til - I'd love to see the search package ported over to Oracle, we should only have one. No one stepped up to the plate on that and Neophytos didn't have a machine big enough for Oracle at a time

19:43:39 [cro]

I see this esp if the server is running http and https on nonstandard ports.

19:43:42 [donb]

c.r. I have had no problems with cookies and 1.0RC1 at all. We're using cookies to track user language and national organization persistently on the Greenpeace site and they seem to work fine.

19:43:45 [til]

donb: yeah, i saw that posting that there's nobody that wants to do it. oh well

19:43:59 [donb]

But if you have time I'd love it, tilmann ...

19:44:12 [cro]

ok, I've dug into it a little and haven't come up with anything yet.

19:44:23 [cro]

Something is definitely broken when running on nonstandard ports

19:44:49 [cro]

but reading the spec it seems like the cookie should be returned to the server regardless of what port the server is running on

19:44:51 [donb]

c.r. greenpeace runs on port 80 because of some stupidness on the now-fired previous consulting company but I normally run my test and development stuff on port 8000. However I don't routinely install ssl ...

19:45:01 [cro]

ah, then you probably wouldn't see it.

19:45:05 [donb]

Yes, it should.

19:45:11 [donb]

RIght I probably wouldn't ...

19:45:22 [til]

wish i had the time, sorry

19:45:53 [cro]

I'm *pretty* sure oacs is doing the "right thing"

19:46:17 [donb]

The thing to do is to write a simple Tcl script, run it without OpenACS, just stick it in a page root by itself, and have it send and receive cookies you type at it or hardwire in. See if you can make it get blanks back or something like that when you hit on one port then the other (http/https).

19:46:36 [cro]

hey, that's a good idea. Weekend project for me. :-)

19:46:36 [donb]

Are you running mozRC1 under windows?

19:46:39 [cro]

Yes

19:47:15 [cro]

I probably should try with a nightly build.

19:47:40 [donb]

I know mozRC1 under linux is still quite buggy. Their 1.0 will be a log buggier than OpenOffice 1.0 (which BTW works really great for me under linux, I've been reading and writing .doc and .xls files with no problem)

19:47:57 [donb]

"Done loading package .info files" OK onto the next step ...

19:48:16 [talli]

donb: since you've been working with MIT for a bit, do you know anything about student information systems for entire school districs? that's a large question, but...

19:48:28 [talli]

wondering if you knew who the main players were

19:48:38 [donb]

No, I don't, sorry

19:48:58 [cro]

Talli: WinSchool/PowerSchool, Isis, etc.

19:49:05 [talli]

yeah

19:49:09 [cro]

Companies: Chancery Software, NCS/Pearson

19:49:10 [talli]

those things

19:49:18 [talli]

those are the market leaders?

19:49:23 [cro]

Good place to get a handle on that: http://www.siifinfo.com

19:49:27 [cro]

(I think, let me check

19:49:36 [cro]

that's wrong

19:49:40 [talli]

ah, killer

19:50:37 [cro]

http://www.sifinfo.org/

19:50:38 [oacs-chump]

C: http://www.sifinfo.org/ from cro

19:50:56 [cro]

Yeah. go to the members page.

19:51:20 [cro]

Do you know about the schools interoperability framework?

19:51:33 [talli]

c: Schools Interoperability Framework

19:51:39 [talli]

C: Schools Interoperability Framework

19:51:41 [oacs-chump]

added comment C1

19:51:43 [cro]

thansk

19:51:47 [talli]

no, cro, i don't

19:51:49 [cro]

didn't know how to do that

19:51:50 [talli]

what is it?

19:52:26 [cro]

Well, they will tell you it's an initiative to develop an XML namespace and publish/subscribe model to exchange data between school software packages

19:52:52 [cro]

See

19:52:57 [cro]

http://www.sifinfo.org/about.html

19:53:05 [talli]

yeah, reading through that now

19:53:14 [oacs-chump]

D: http://www.sifinfo.org/about.html from cro

19:53:24 [cro]

D: SIF About page

19:53:24 [oacs-chump]

added comment D1

19:53:45 [talli]

D: SIF is a blueprint for education software interoperability and data access.

19:53:46 [oacs-chump]

added comment D2

19:54:22 [cro]

But to make it work vendors are going to have to open up their data models/schemas to competitors, or face doing a lot of mapping.

19:54:38 [cro]

I guess you could think about it as BizTalk for schools

19:54:53 [talli]

cool

19:55:10 [talli]

i want to bid on a project for a school district, and i need to do some market research. this is a big help, thanks

19:55:18 [cro]

sure, good luck

19:55:31 [talli]

thanks

19:55:37 [cro]

I haven't talked to any of the SIF people in over a year.

19:55:45 [cro]

so I don't know how things are going

19:56:58 [donb]

OK, I've just started loading ref-timezones ... instead of watching I'm going away. See y'all later!

19:57:00 [donb]

donb has quit ("changing universes")

20:22:02 [Spork]

Anyone know how to use ipfw?

20:23:55 [alltelsucks]

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23:15:35 [cro]

cro has quit ("Goodnight all")

23:16:27 [denshi]

talli, what do you think of an OACS social on may 24th or 25th?

23:32:54 [davb]

hey

23:32:54 [davb]

argh

23:32:54 [davb]

who was that from nycap.rr.com!

23:32:54 [davb]

that is my local ISP

23:35:19 [jim]

usual

23:36:37 [jim]

denshi: did you want to talk to me yesterday?

23:36:51 [denshi]

yeah, but I don't remember why

23:37:05 [jim]

ok

23:37:15 [denshi]

maybe I was tripping off a bad cookie

23:37:45 [jim]

watch for bad cookies, especially slippery ones on the floor :)

23:38:31 [denshi]

just watch out for the ones mark deal in

23:46:22 [davb]

that is really interesting that someone local to me joined the channel.

23:46:57 [davb]

although only here for 11 seconds

23:47:32 [the_docwolf]

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23:48:23 [the_docwolf]

paje, seen talli?

23:48:34 [the_docwolf]

uh oh

23:48:50 [the_docwolf]

i've got to get used to the fact that poor paje is never coming back, i guess....

23:51:54 [davb]

he'll be back when rbm is back

23:53:50 [denshi]

davb has got to get used to the fact that poor rbm is never coming back, I guess....

23:55:32 [the_docwolf]

why not?

23:56:48 [denshi]

grief

23:58:36 [denshi]

it's the bot/handler relationship. it's hard to understand

23:59:41 [denshi]

denshi is now known as denshi-away

23:59:54 [talli]

yo