00:16:06 denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625176-26.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:26:08 denshi has quit () 00:38:37 talilee is now known as toffice 00:50:18 where is paje? 00:50:26 paje, come back! 01:07:33 paje paje paje 01:07:37 * Tuesdayphylax dances to salsa 01:16:49 Benny Goodman kicks ass 01:22:44 denshi (~chatzilla@cs6625176-26.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:22:59 spider-man is really cool 01:23:22 Thine wish is paje's command 01:23:28 paje (~paje@slxwy.dorms.usu.edu) has joined #openacs 01:23:35 paje: welcome back 01:23:35 rbm: excuse me? 01:23:51 moo! 01:26:28 bbiab 01:28:06 paje, botsmack. 01:28:06 * paje slumps into a purple haze 01:28:31 botsmack? 01:28:31 * paje slumps into a purple haze 01:28:33 lol 01:28:37 botsnack 01:28:41 paje, botsnack! 01:28:42 thanks Tuesdayphylax :) 01:28:48 paje, attack! 01:28:48 * paje bites Mark's ankle 01:30:10 paje!! where have you been? 01:31:51 nevermind that, watch this: 01:32:03 rzolf, codersnack! 01:32:16 see, nothing. 01:32:42 it's enough to attribute rzolf with free will. 01:34:25 LOl 01:34:26 rzolf is getting coffee, or something 01:34:32 paje, sit down 01:34:33 Tuesdayphylax: huh? 01:34:35 bah 01:34:38 paje, sit 01:34:38 * paje sits on barstool 01:34:43 paje, get up 01:34:43 * paje get off of barstool 01:34:58 paje, gitdown! 01:34:58 gitfunky 01:35:07 a maximized 800x600 web pane is 770 pixels, yes? 01:36:00 more like 770 x 460 = 354200 pixels 01:36:28 thanks 01:36:32 i guess after banner ads, then yes, 770. 01:36:37 just checking for the cross-wise dimension 01:36:48 since there is nothing more annoying than horizontal scrolling 01:36:52 i think you're correct. 01:37:20 of course, the new browsers are all about vertical toolbars, so you're in trouble once again. 01:37:28 right 01:37:40 but my assumption is most people with 800x600 do their utmost to preserve screen real-estate 01:37:49 and quickly kill the toolbar 01:37:55 good assumption. i hadn't considered that. 01:38:00 otherwise, the web would become a total disaster 01:38:06 'become'? 01:38:09 (like, you couldn't even view cnn.com properly) 01:38:10 hehe 01:38:16 paje, total disaster. 01:38:16 denshi: huh? 01:38:30 paje want a cracker? 01:38:31 mega-wolf: wish i knew 01:38:47 paje, jinsai o shitero! 01:38:47 denshi: excuse me? 01:39:01 rbm: how do I make paje destroy the net? 01:39:20 I like that coffee idea. bbiaw 01:44:22 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01:52:06 talli (~chatzilla@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 02:18:39 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 02:19:20 hey davb 02:19:27 hi talli 02:21:03 hey dave 02:21:12 werd talli 02:21:24 yo Tuesdayphylax 02:21:28 denshi: you still around? 02:21:42 Tuesdayphylax is now known as Paydaophylax 02:22:49 hi Paydaophylax 02:26:37 yo talli 02:26:51 hey denshi 02:26:58 have you had a chance to look at the APR? 02:27:30 yes 02:27:36 it's an excellent piece of C 02:28:13 have you had a chance to listen to the gorillaz? 02:29:03 sexmob plays a gorilla song 02:29:11 * talli crosses himself at the mention of Sexmob 02:29:19 so the APR is a very good tool, huh? 02:29:46 would you advocate it's use? 02:30:14 just a sec 02:30:51 for momentum, or elsewhere 02:30:52 ? 02:32:44 momentum 02:32:44 momentum is that the ical thing? 02:32:56 paje, forget momentum 02:32:56 talli: I forgot momentum 02:33:12 paje, Momentum is the project to build a Free Calendar Server 02:33:12 OK, talli. 02:34:45 paje, again! 02:34:45 * paje spanks talli 02:37:01 i'd say that if you're going to use C, you should definitely use the APR 02:37:20 ok, i'm pushing C hardcore 02:37:31 will you swing by the momentum channel tomorrow and mention that 02:37:48 time? 02:37:48 Tue May 7 20:38:31 2002 02:38:06 thanks, paje. you're so helpful. botsnack. 02:41:46 denshi: what does the APR provide developers? 02:42:43 first and foremost a common API to do shared mem, threads, locking, etc, all the multi-proc stuff across different operating systems. 02:44:25 secondly network functions 02:44:41 strings and such 02:45:34 maybe I should have said: zeroth and even more foremost, a bunch of C data structures, like variable arrays, tables, rings, stacks, etc. 02:46:51 and of course a growing library with xml, sha1, etc 02:47:22 sadly, it lacks bagels 02:49:09 mmm 02:49:11 bagels 02:50:29 comparing that to swiping code from aolserver, nsd offers an existent event loop you could play with, but that might actually be a negative depending on how much you need to change. 02:53:51 denshi: thanks 02:54:14 can you speak really quickly to what it provides in terms of strings 02:54:56 i *really* want to advocate the APR because, as you say, it's going to grow and grow 02:55:17 yup. you get to tie into that growth pattern. 02:55:30 apache2 seems to be a massive step up in excellence, and given that it already owns the server market, i can't see the APR getting less popular 02:55:51 the fact that it not only provides portability across unices but also across platforms is a big win too 02:58:40 denshi: you mind writing up a summary? i'd massively appreciate it 02:58:50 the APR also supports development in C++, right? 02:58:59 ummm... 02:59:04 how is their threading model? 02:59:20 there's not a diff between C and C++ in, say threading. 02:59:51 you can largely consider the two languages equivalent in this regard. 03:00:10 well, those were two different questions 03:03:24 i'll do a short writeup later tonight or tomorrow. I have to get back into the practice of writing proposals 03:05:22 cool 03:05:28 did you ping that game gig? 03:05:53 no. there are lots of people better at that than me. 03:06:31 basically I would spend the 3 month contract learning everything. no such a deal. 03:07:06 oh, that reminds me. a friend of mine in town works on web systems for non-profits 03:07:42 oh yeah? does he want to give up and give his contracts to Musea? 03:07:49 does he make lots of money doing it? 03:07:50 he just got married, but when he's back in town I'll try to hook him up with some museatech juice and docwolf's energy drinks 03:08:06 no idea 03:08:26 married huh? 03:08:49 but maybe he'll join the little cluster of OACS companies, and use his contracts to extend OACS 03:14:35 museatech juice? 03:15:18 it's like Spanish Fly, only sexier 03:16:01 it's sort of the alcoholic equivalent of "Nuke 'em 'till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark!" 03:19:16 that's enough for me. goodnight 03:19:46 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:20:52 i gues davb's not much of a drinker 03:22:57 talli, what and when do you think about the austin social? 03:23:15 well, i need to be in Nashville on the morning of the 15th 03:24:45 how bout something in cali? 03:25:26 hazmat: we tried that already. the mosquitos nearly killed us. 03:25:45 * talli is still itching... 03:26:04 must have been in the north.. socal seems pretty barren of them. 03:26:24 i think the smog helps regulate... 03:26:41 aren't their tons of bugs in texas? 03:26:45 in Los Angeles, something is always burning. 03:27:05 * hazmat recalls getting eaten alive while in houston last summer 03:27:30 talli, has there ever been an oacs social on a weekend? they all seem to have been on weekdays. 03:27:54 hmmm... yeah, they are usually on weekdays to get people coming after work 03:28:34 don't see why weekends can't work too 03:30:45 hmm.. interesting zope product.. sponsored by euro commission on computer assisted learning. http://fle3.uiah.fi/ 03:47:52 yet another web learning environment... 04:03:32 just what the world needed. 04:10:01 You know you need to use unix more..... 04:10:08 ....when you don't remember how to compile stuff 04:10:53 talli: what sort of reporting are you lookng for? 04:44:00 hazmat: the reporting stuff i'm looking for are things that chop and dice data 04:44:10 so doing data cuts and comparisons 04:44:21 i guess that's what OLAP apps are for? 04:45:05 but it would be nice to have something in OACS that would simplify the lives of developers whose clients *demand* (X+1)! reports 04:58:47 definitely... i'm just curious about what sort of graphs you're looking for? 04:59:12 * hazmat is working on oacs project at the moment. 04:59:20 denshi is now known as denshi-sleep 04:59:39 oh cool 04:59:45 what's the project? 05:00:29 er.. by project i mean code 05:00:46 ah 05:00:47 i'm working on a script to load up the acs-data model sans aolserver 05:00:54 are you still doing zope stuff for that gig? 05:01:00 which gig? 05:01:04 my current job, yes. 05:01:08 oh, cool 05:01:10 is kinda of sad 05:01:20 the last one i heard you had 05:01:24 for zope + python 05:01:25 they only do relational work, for which zope is really a poor platform. 05:01:26 oh, cool 05:01:33 is that what you're doing with the oacs data model? 05:01:53 yes, i'm trying to teach them how to use a relational data model, oacs is an excellent example 05:02:01 ah 05:02:05 i've got them to convert from mysql to postgres, which is a good start. 05:02:07 i don't really care about graphs 05:02:10 just data reports 05:02:24 okay... i just saw a project earlier today. 05:02:27 * hazmat digs 05:02:46 http://datavision.sourceforge.net/ 05:02:47 A: http://datavision.sourceforge.net/ from hazmat 05:02:59 A: open source db reporting tool ala crystal reports 05:02:59 added comment A1 05:03:03 A:! 05:03:04 added comment A2 05:03:07 fuck 05:04:21 hmmm... i think someone was about to mention this today 05:04:49 wow i didn't realize how many packages are in oacs 05:04:55 79 05:05:26 uhmm... i don't know about that 05:05:31 where did you get that number? 05:06:45 talli is now known as barstool 05:07:18 from my dependency graph for the data model loader tool 05:07:22 ah, weir 05:07:29 well, i don't think there are that many 05:07:32 most are just hacks 05:07:37 true 05:07:53 i'm it against cvs head 05:08:15 anyway, for those of you not in NYC, a normal occurence is for complete road construction to take place at 1 AM 05:08:30 so that multiple jackhammers are goiing off outside 05:08:40 i am somewhat lucky as i'm on the 8th floor 05:08:53 however, teh poor bastards on the second floor must be really hating life 05:08:58 and if you're on the first.... 05:09:54 your deaf by now 05:10:14 * hazmat recommends delivery drugs 05:11:42 i would never! 05:11:52 anyway, gotta sleep 05:11:55 somehow... 05:11:59 see ya guys later 05:13:04 cheers 05:17:29 for the record, there are three jack hammers 05:20:50 rbm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:20:50 paje has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:33:02 rbm (rmello@fslc.usu.edu) has joined #openacs 05:41:12 cool. me script works 07:39:31 rbm has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:56:13 mega-wolf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:42:02 miguel__ (~tyler@cancerbero.unileon.es) has joined #openacs 09:46:16 miguel__ has quit (" IRcap 6.999 http://www.ircap.net !!") 10:07:06 djg_ (djg@fiesta.cs.tu-berlin.de) has joined #openacs 10:07:47 djg_ is now known as _djg_ 12:17:50 I need to move to mexico 12:18:02 then I can have a siesta every day 12:24:16 <_djg_> Paydaophylax: where are you now? 12:24:36 <_djg_> I'd also rather move to mexico :-D (been there twice, us only once) 12:25:15 <_djg_> but there is no programming industry 12:25:18 <_djg_> in mexico 12:40:53 That's ok 12:41:12 there's lots of tequila and scantily clad women 13:02:07 http://www.russiajournal.com/printer/weekly5339.html 13:02:08 B: http://www.russiajournal.com/printer/weekly5339.html from Paydaophylax 13:02:25 B:| An interesting read (with timeline) on the Russian Economic System 13:02:25 titled item B 13:02:32 B: A random useless read... 13:02:32 added comment B1 13:03:42 heh...not enough letters in the alphabet 13:14:56 markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-034.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 13:18:24 Hey hey 13:18:29 paje, feed mark 13:18:43 paaaaaje... 13:18:46 * Paydaophylax whistles 13:18:51 * paje bitch-slapps Paydaophylax 13:20:52 Ouch! 13:21:03 * Paydaophylax whimpers and crawls under the table 13:21:35 You try Gentoo yet? 13:21:47 what's that? 13:23:19 It's a mutant between Linux and FreeBSD from what they claim 13:23:35 Claims to be 0% bloatware 13:24:40 http://www.gentoo.org/index.html 13:24:41 C: http://www.gentoo.org/index.html from Paydaophylax 13:25:10 C:| Gentoo Linux - Mutant-like Linux that claims 0% bloatware 13:25:10 titled item C 13:25:22 C: Supposedly a mix of FreeBSD + Linux 13:25:22 added comment C1 13:26:23 qool 13:26:33 yeah 13:27:25 I need to rid of the Microsoft devil within me 13:27:39 I was sitting there last night going..."ummmm....how do I compile from source again?" 13:27:49 that's simply NOT ACCEPTABLE 13:32:55 Hmmm 13:33:00 I can install it on this PoS 13:33:50 what kind of PoS 13:34:57 PII 300 with 32 megs of ram 13:35:12 it's sitting next to my foot doing nothing 13:35:22 Once I get a blank cd, I will install Gentoo on it 13:36:33 that's only slightly weaker than my primary web server, and my home db machine 13:37:37 See 13:37:41 I have a problem 13:37:45 I'm a Microsoft addict 13:37:54 3 of the 4 machines at my house run windows 13:38:14 And the other one is my server that I don't "use" on a daily basis as a desktop 13:38:22 it's FreeBSD 13:38:26 sounds like you have Problem 13:38:28 and need therapy 13:38:29 I know 13:38:32 * Paydaophylax weeps 13:38:42 where's paje so he can insult me some 13:39:40 I need to find me a BSD Like Linux 13:40:22 I guess I'll just pull out the WinXP hard drive and try to find a *nix that is slim but has compatibility with all my stuff 13:40:44 I need something that has a 300 meg foot print which is plenty if you don't install a million useless apps 13:41:00 Know of anything? 13:41:43 slackware? 13:41:57 personally I dedicate a hard drive to the OS 13:42:01 I have them on removable caddies 13:42:17 if I need to play a windoze game, I just pull out my linux drive and put in the winoze one 13:42:23 no dual-booting nightmares 13:42:42 you know 13:42:50 That's an excellent idea 13:42:53 * Paydaophylax goes shopping 13:43:14 What do I look under or for? 13:43:41 hmmm 13:43:45 maybe 'removable drive caddies' 13:45:43 how do those work 13:46:05 you install the caddy receivier into the machine, and attach the IDE and power cables to it 13:46:08 It takes a 5.25 slot? 13:46:11 yeah 13:46:13 ok 13:46:16 hmmm 13:46:17 works for me! 13:46:19 put the hard drive into the caddy, and hook up a cable 13:46:35 what cable? 13:46:37 there's a mating connector on the back of the caddy that mates with the reciver, providing power and connectivity 13:46:47 what I've got is just regular IDE cable 13:46:53 what ever you'd plug into the drive 13:47:16 they probably don't sell the caddys individually, so if you want > 1, you';ll need to get a couple of packages and find some other home for the additional receiviers 13:48:43 of course they do 13:48:57 yay 13:49:05 the place where I got mine from 3 years ago didn't 13:50:38 Will that work? 13:51:11 ... loading ... 13:51:15 ... loading ... 13:51:17 ... loading ... 13:51:18 lol 13:51:21 still loading 13:51:34 yep 13:51:44 nice. it has a fan 13:53:56 here's the full list 13:54:03 Just tell me what the heck I need :) 13:54:09 preferrably supporting ATA133 13:54:27 what's ATA133? 13:54:36 I havne't done any PC hardware stuff in 3-4 years 13:54:38 thank ghod 13:54:54 lol 13:55:15 The hard drives...they come in regular IDE, ATA33, ATA66, ATA100, ATA133 13:55:18 no way I'm gonna open each of those links 13:55:25 it'll take me an hour to get through 'em all 13:55:53 LOL 13:55:54 dialup? 13:55:59 ISDN 13:56:00 slow 13:56:02 alltel? 13:56:09 * paje says alltel are a bunch of wankers 13:56:19 there's 3 or 4 there that mention ata133 13:56:24 you probably don't need the hot-swap 14:05:28 nope 14:18:32 heh 14:18:37 Hey...Now I don't need 4 computers 14:18:40 I just need 4 hard drive 14:18:54 you can sell the 4 and buy a truly kick-ass machine 14:23:27 cro (~cro@defiant.nca.asu.edu) has joined #openacs 14:23:52 hey markd2, what's the fastest connectivity you can get out there? 14:24:23 smoke signals 14:24:25 for me, dual-channel 52K ISDN 14:24:37 I was close 14:24:37 I get laughed at when I ask about 'dsl" or "cable modem' 14:25:03 barstool is now known as talli 14:25:40 what do they do when you ask for a chocolate fudge goat sunday? 14:26:02 they send me up the road to Bonnie's 14:26:50 Bonnie's? is that some beastial brothel? 14:35:21 worse 14:35:30 a 'soft-serve' 'ice-cream' place just down the 'road' 14:35:47 * Paydaophylax shudders 14:38:49 I need a removable bay rack and some trays damn it! 14:38:51 daaaamn it! 14:41:27 order next day shipping 14:44:42 denshi-sleep is now known as denshi 14:51:45 this vpn sucks 15:40:10 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 15:43:50 morning 16:14:13 hehehe 16:14:16 iBoot is cool 16:14:36 I might want to pick up a unit or two...or three 16:19:47 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:20:05 hey dave 16:20:17 hi 16:22:30 markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-034.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 16:24:04 iBoot kicks ass 16:24:16 iB00t! 16:24:40 what's the URL fr your machines 16:25:05 looks like it was designed with NT in mind 16:25:09 needing to reboot it so often 16:26:31 :) 16:27:39 warez.slashdot.org 16:34:34 jim (~jim@12-233-225-152.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 16:34:41 re. 16:37:38 Hey, what function should I use within a tcl proc to abort the proc and return an error if something goes wrong with the proc? Is there an ad_? proc to do that? 16:38:14 (I'm validating switches to a proc, if the developer calls it wrong I need to bail out) 16:39:10 does the proc output to a web page? 16:39:13 No 16:39:32 so, maybe you want to throw an error condition? 16:39:48 ok, so just a standard TCL exception do you mean? 16:40:31 yeah, dunno if that's what you want... but at least it's in the ballpark (maybe it hit the hotdog vendor...) 16:40:53 what does it return? 16:40:59 an object_id 16:41:47 and does it get that id by querying the database? would the db get altered possibly as a direct result of calling your proc? 16:41:59 Yes 16:42:07 The proc creates a new object. 16:42:19 ahh 16:42:23 If the developer doesn't pass the right "Stuff" to it I need to bail. 16:42:37 I think I need something analagous to a C "assert()" 16:42:53