IRC log of openacs on 2002-05-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:04:25 [Thursdayphylax]
lilo is a freak
00:06:00 [davb]
lilo the loader?
00:06:54 [Thursdayphylax]
no, lilo the IRC Sys Op
00:07:01 [davb]
ah.
00:07:03 [Thursdayphylax]
!lilo:*! hmmm, http://www.redherring.com/insider/2002/0424/2780.html
00:07:07 [Thursdayphylax]
!lilo:*! oddly, I think this is kind of interesting
00:09:08 [Thursdayphylax]
hmmm
00:09:13 [Thursdayphylax]
I hope this doesn't get me banned
00:09:15 [Thursdayphylax]
@WMWMB0@M0Z88000@@M@BBBZBB080000WWMMMMWSBMBM8MZW822M8M8WSMXMMZaZ7. .ir77X77;ir;:ii;r7SSXr7X7777777X
00:09:15 [Thursdayphylax]
@WMWMBBBZ08Z8800MMMMB0WaZ@MWBB80B2MMMMZr8MWM8MaZ888M8M@MXM;MM222,8MMB2XXrr;;;Xrirrri,.,,,rSZ0BB08Z22
00:09:15 [Thursdayphylax]
@@MMM@M0ZW0aa808@MMMBW@BaWMBB080@7@MMMZ8WM@W8M0WZSaM8W8M8MZMMXXrMMB7XrX7rrriXXi;;;;i;iii:, ,rX88
00:09:15 [Thursdayphylax]
@W@MM@MMWMMMW800WMMMWBWMMMMWB008@S2M0M2Z0@M80MZ88aBMMMBWSWXMM;7MM7irr72Srri7X:;rr;i;i;;:ii:i::,
00:09:15 [Thursdayphylax]
@@MM@W@BZBWMZZ800MMM@BMZSZMWBB88@aX2@M2WWMM0@Ma8Z8WZa@MMZWaMW;MMZa8aS2S2r;;2ir;rririr;:;i:i:::,,:iii
00:09:15 [Thursdayphylax]
Thursdayphylax has quit (Excess Flood)
00:09:41 [Thursdayphylax]
Thursdayphylax (proxy@ool-18baa8de.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs
00:09:44 [Thursdayphylax]
I guess not
00:22:25 [Thursdayphylax]
walla walla!
00:22:31 [Thursdayphylax]
paje seen davb
00:22:31 [paje]
davb was last seen on #openacs 15 minutes and 30 seconds ago, saying: ah. [Thu May 2 18:07:42 2002]
00:22:36 [Thursdayphylax]
paje seen markd2
00:22:36 [paje]
markd2 was last seen on #openacs 5 hours, 8 minutes and 0 seconds ago, saying: there's some way to do it [Thu May 2 13:15:17 2002]
00:37:00 [davb]
what was that?
00:38:08 [Thursdayphylax]
It was a picture of a Pepsi bottle converted to ASCII
00:46:30 [davb]
ok
00:48:55 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
00:56:55 [rbm]
* rbm arrives from SLC with his parents
00:57:03 [Thursdayphylax]
Ok, we need to kill someone ;)
01:05:41 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
01:07:08 [Thursdayphylax]
hehe
01:07:16 [Thursdayphylax]
Moo is going to teach them how to use a compooter
01:10:22 [davb]
moo is teaching who?
01:14:55 [davb]
time to do some geometry
01:18:35 [rbm]
* rbm prepares irmp3-0.4.3pre6-4
01:23:48 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:33:55 [Thursdayphylax]
gimp?
01:33:57 [Thursdayphylax]
Gump?
01:33:59 [Thursdayphylax]
PIMP?!
01:34:07 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, revive davb
01:34:07 [paje]
* paje gives davb CPR
01:34:12 [davb]
heh
01:34:20 [Thursdayphylax]
Woot, it works
01:34:42 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, botsnack
01:34:42 [paje]
thanks Thursdayphylax :)
01:36:08 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, sleep
01:36:08 [paje]
* paje goes to sleep
01:37:20 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@209-122-234-135.s2199.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
01:37:46 [davb]
hi vinod
01:37:57 [vinod]
hey davb
01:38:07 [Thursdayphylax]
sup vi to the NOD
01:38:29 [vinod]
i'm down with da Thursdayphylax
01:38:48 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, wakeup
01:38:49 [paje]
* paje wakes up
01:38:52 [Thursdayphylax]
gitdown!
01:38:52 [paje]
gitfunky
01:39:54 [vinod]
just had a drink with johnseq
01:40:18 [davb]
cool.
01:40:27 [davb]
so when do you guys take over the world?
01:40:34 [vinod]
i think we solved most of the worlds problems, but i'll forget by tomorrow
01:40:37 [vinod]
haha
01:40:40 [Thursdayphylax]
Well, since Brain is here, I don't think they did
01:40:45 [vinod]
davb: you can read my mind, huh?
01:41:20 [davb]
i can?
01:41:52 [vinod]
the take-over-the-world thing. i wuz in the middle of typing that...
01:42:00 [davb]
heh
01:42:12 [Thursdayphylax]
come on vinod, we all know you're secretly trying to take over the world every night
01:42:14 [davb]
seemed like the kind of thing you guys would discuss.
01:42:24 [vinod]
haha
01:42:30 [vinod]
* vinod looks around suspiciously
01:42:54 [Thursdayphylax]
* Thursdayphylax keeps an eye on vinod
02:06:47 [Thursdayphylax]
boogly woogly?
02:08:33 [davb]
Thursdayphylax: or anyone else. where can I set my screensaver settings? I am in xfce
02:09:31 [Thursdayphylax]
Xfce?
02:09:32 [Thursdayphylax]
Umm
02:09:37 [Thursdayphylax]
on the right hand side
02:10:27 [Thursdayphylax]
it's in one of the popup menus
02:10:35 [Thursdayphylax]
either the rightmost or the next to it
02:10:37 [davb]
cool.
02:10:43 [davb]
i clicked on them all, except that one. oops
02:10:52 [Thursdayphylax]
* Thursdayphylax thwaps davb
02:10:55 [Thursdayphylax]
©
02:26:25 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
02:33:17 [vinod]
hey talli
02:33:30 [talli]
hey vinod
02:34:03 [davb]
http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html
02:34:03 [oacs-chump]
A: http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html from davb
02:39:09 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, seen denshi
02:39:09 [paje]
denshi was last seen on #openacs 2 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes and 41 seconds ago, saying: l8r [Tue Apr 30 14:52:09 2002]
02:39:12 [Thursdayphylax]
Dang
02:42:24 [davb]
A: A most interesting letter regarding free software
02:42:24 [oacs-chump]
added comment A1
02:43:35 [docwolf]
ok, shagster, time to set up uptime...
02:45:31 [Thursdayphylax]
10:49PM up 21 days, 1:31, 1 user, load averages: 1.20, 1.13, 1.09
02:45:36 [Thursdayphylax]
:-)
02:45:46 [davb]
A: the most clear arguments for free software I have read
02:45:46 [oacs-chump]
added comment A2
02:48:11 [vinod]
docwolf: uptime.openacs.org has been pretty reliable for me. i haven't got a notice from there in a month for my 1 unix-based site, but i get regular notices for a client site on mac os 9 (don't ask!)
02:50:13 [abbaJ]
abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-64-123-15-115.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
03:08:19 [davb]
bye
03:08:21 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
03:19:52 [docwolf]
vinod: good to hear!
03:20:07 [docwolf]
my pager is really loud, and i don't relish the thought of it going off at 3am.
03:20:11 [docwolf]
i left those days behind.
03:26:13 [vinod]
haha
03:26:19 [vinod]
i hear ya
03:26:53 [vinod]
the last few night shifts that i've worked have been painful. can't wait to get those days behind me
03:28:23 [talli]
vinod: don't you mean nights?
03:28:37 [talli]
day or night? what's the friggin' deal?
03:29:06 [vinod]
sorry to confuse you :-)
03:29:16 [vinod]
* vinod breaks the talli-consistency-meter again
03:29:17 [talli]
no prob
03:29:36 [talli]
had to dump core, but i don't *entirely* blame you for that
03:29:51 [vinod]
hey, keep your bathroom stories to yourself
03:29:59 [talli]
haha
03:30:03 [talli]
speaking of which...
03:30:07 [talli]
talli is now known as barstool
03:30:12 [barstool]
g'night everyone
03:30:20 [vinod]
g'night
03:52:38 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, sit
03:52:38 [paje]
* paje sits on barstool
04:00:12 [lethedrinker]
the ignomy.
04:00:20 [lethedrinker]
* lethedrinker is being forced to use mysql at work
04:00:22 [lethedrinker]
AGHH
04:00:39 [vinod]
you must have been evil in a past life :-)
04:02:06 [barstool]
lethedrinker: nice to see you again
04:02:17 [barstool]
lethedrinker: http://www.museatech.net/faq/momentum
04:03:14 [barstool]
* barstool now officially goes to bed
04:04:25 [lethedrinker]
night talli, i saw that page a bit earlier looks good.
04:07:36 [barstool]
lethedrinker: cool
04:07:46 [barstool]
you should come by #momentum sometime
04:07:55 [barstool]
there are some serious python bigots i have to handle
04:08:01 [barstool]
hanging out int here, that is
04:08:10 [barstool]
ok, now i'm *really* going to bed
04:19:00 [vinod]
i haven't seen many infomercials like that up here
04:19:17 [vinod]
they mostly sell abdominizers or real-estate-get-rich schemes
04:19:29 [vinod]
oops - wrong window
07:51:31 [vinod]
vinod has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:26:47 [larspind]
larspind (~none@213.237.67.169.adsl.by.worldonline.dk) has joined #openacs
08:28:07 [til]
mornin
09:44:44 [larspind]
larspind has quit ("dIRC IRC Client - www.dragonmount.net/dirc/")
11:40:02 [larspind]
larspind (~none@213.237.67.169.adsl.by.worldonline.dk) has joined #openacs
11:53:28 [jim]
anyone here? :)
12:06:04 [Thursdayphylax]
no :)
12:06:32 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, get up
12:06:33 [paje]
* paje get off of barstool
12:06:48 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, botsnack
12:06:48 [paje]
thanks Thursdayphylax :)
12:21:11 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-038.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
12:22:17 [jim]
I'm trying to plan a site service; it's bigger than the key signature thing...
12:23:47 [jim]
anyone around? :)
12:24:24 [jim]
I'd like to run some user scenarios by, maybe come up with an initial data model
12:25:45 [markd2]
morning
12:27:07 [jim]
hiya
12:30:21 [jim]
Joe Player comes to the site... says "my email is jp@players.com, I play late 60s to late 70s classic album-oriented rock as well as funk and blues, and I have a funk gig on May 1"
12:32:11 [jim]
Darlene Listener comes, and says "wow, I love music... especially funk and jazz; email is dl@audience.com" and she is shown a calendar for May, with Joe Player'
12:32:25 [jim]
s funk gig on the first
12:32:38 [markd2]
cool idea
12:32:50 [markd2]
hard part will be getting enough folks into the system to make it worthwhile
12:33:45 [markd2]
kinda of like a Live Music personals service
12:35:11 [jim]
Barry Barowner comes to the site, and says... "Yeah, I'm Barry Barowner, and I own Barry's Bar... and I got Joe Player comin down on the First of May, here's the address and contact info for my bar"
12:35:13 [markd2]
SWB(assist) ISO groupies for blues gigs
12:36:01 [jim]
I looked at Craig's List
12:36:13 [jim]
and it's similar in some ways
12:36:23 [markd2]
Darlene Listener registers an interest in funk and blues, and gets email ntifications when a gig is registered within 50 miles of her home Zipcode
12:36:54 [markd2]
yeah, Craig's List is awesome
12:37:06 [markd2]
if you can build up the userbase to make it sustainable, it'd be an awesome service
12:38:31 [jim]
and when she comes back to her workspace (via the link in the email), it shows the gigs
12:39:32 [jim]
Tommy Trombone Teacher comes to the site and says "I'm a trombone teacher, I teach classical and jazz trombone, beginners welcome"
12:40:00 [jim]
Dave Drummer comes to the site, and says "I wanna jam! I play funk and jazz"
12:41:00 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
12:41:09 [jim]
Bill Bassist comes and says, "I wanna jam! I have a place to play, during regular business hours (9 PM - 5 AM)...
12:42:57 [markd2]
Pastor Patella signs on and says "I need a brass quintet for an Easter Vigil"
12:43:46 [jim]
Paul Piano browses the site, looking to form a rhythm section, he wants to start by finding a jam session, and finds Dave and Bill there, and contacts them to put a session together
12:43:51 [markd2]
Charles Conductor registers auditions for violins and violas for Little Italy Community Orchestra
12:44:04 [markd2]
(hope you don't mind some brainstorming :-)
12:44:14 [markd2]
(these are some things I would have found useful in the past)
12:44:28 [markd2]
or for right now
12:45:30 [jim]
Bill comes back to the site, and says "Rock jam session may 15th at my place, closed session, players only"
12:46:15 [jim]
Paul comes back, sees the session on his calendar, says "I'm interested"
12:46:22 [jim]
So does Dave
12:47:10 [jim]
Bill gets two email notifications, with confirm/deny link choices in the mail
12:47:22 [jim]
he confirms Paul and Dave
12:47:33 [jim]
they get notifications
12:48:21 [jim]
they come back to the site; in their workspace is a list of links to sessions and a calendar view with links also
12:48:59 [jim]
they can click on the session link from the list or from the calendar; they do so and get location and contact info
12:49:26 [jim]
they arrive, jam, work out some tunes
12:49:31 [markd2]
gonna have any concept of karma? "Bill Bassist is always late to gigs"
12:49:57 [jim]
that will probably have to be
12:50:04 [davb]
jim: you probably want to check out the dotlrn calendar and new portal stuff.
12:51:16 [jim]
Marisa Piano Player purposely plays confusing rhythms and harmonies
12:52:22 [jim]
karma will initially take the form of ACLs... "Bill and Marisa cannot see my listings"
12:52:22 [paje]
will initially take the form of acls... "bill and marisa cannot see my listings" has neutral karma
12:52:45 [jim]
paje: karma dogma
12:52:46 [paje]
dogma has neutral karma
12:52:56 [markd2]
paje: dogma karma
12:52:56 [paje]
markd2: i'm not following you...
12:53:11 [jim]
paje: follow markd2
12:53:11 [paje]
jim: huh?
12:55:15 [jim]
it's the jam session thing that I want to get going first...
12:55:25 [jim]
here's another scenario...
12:56:42 [jim]
Tom Bighouse comes to the site, and says "Open Jazz Jam at my place on Saturday May 24th! Potluck! Sign up to bring food!"
12:58:16 [jim]
(if Bill on Tom's "killfile", Bill doesn't see session on calendar, but Darlene Listener -does- see the listing even if she's not a player, since the session is open
12:58:48 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, feed mark
12:58:49 [paje]
* paje tosses markd2 a cookie
12:58:55 [jim]
and maybe she'll bring her killer souffle)
13:00:12 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, attack !
13:00:12 [paje]
Thursdayphylax: huh?
13:00:14 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, attack
13:00:14 [paje]
* paje bites marks ankle
13:00:54 [jim]
Tim Trombone comes to the site, and says "I'm a trombone player, and looking for occasional lessons", and when in his workspace, notes Tom Trombone Teacher's listing
13:02:33 [markd2]
heh
13:02:40 [jim]
Ricco Reporter comes to the site, says "I write for Jazz Times Newsletter", and sees all the sessions that hasn't killfiled him
13:03:05 [Thursdayphylax]
* Thursdayphylax is training paje to be an evil do good b0t
13:03:10 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, botsnack
13:03:10 [paje]
thanks Thursdayphylax :)
13:04:11 [jim]
and probably doesn't see the players-only sessions
13:05:07 [Thursdayphylax]
* Thursdayphylax goes to work
13:06:14 [jim]
so, given all that I'd want in my final result, what kind of data model do I need? or, how can I figure that out? and, what modeling tools are useful?
13:09:26 [markd2]
hmmmm
13:11:53 [davb]
* davb suggests looking at dotlrn again :)
13:12:17 [davb]
it seems to have similar goals to what you are looking for.
13:14:25 [jim]
is dotlrn derived from openacs 4?
13:14:52 [davb]
yes. it is openacs 4. with added stuff.
13:15:09 [jim]
so it comes in the form of packages?
13:15:15 [davb]
not yet.
13:15:24 [davb]
only cvs.
13:15:28 [davb]
dotlrn.openforce.net
13:15:46 [davb]
but there are several packages that you add to openacs 4.
13:15:56 [jim]
can I put my openacs 4 stuff on a .lrn?
13:15:59 [davb]
i didn;t read that question ocrrectly.
13:16:01 [davb]
sure.
13:16:20 [davb]
but i am more suggesting just looking at it for idea.
13:16:27 [davb]
right now its oracle only.
13:16:36 [davb]
unless they ported it since I looked.
13:17:13 [jim]
so there are .xql and .oracle.xql but no .postgres.xql?
13:17:34 [davb]
yes. except for new-portal, which will go into openacs 4 anyway.
13:17:42 [jim]
(and similar in packages/*/sql)
13:19:14 [jim]
how are you feeling about the package{, instance} delete thing, esp in light of things like .lrn and other things you may have been working on in the meantime? do you still feel similar about the form?
13:19:17 [davb]
yes.
13:20:04 [davb]
jim: i haven't thought about it too much, but it seems like the right way to do it.
13:20:28 [davb]
people who are just fooling around with the system really need it. it is too painful to reload the datamodel all the time.
13:20:32 [jim]
do you think it needs more gel time?
13:20:48 [jim]
yes, strongly agreed, there
13:21:14 [davb]
well, I think it would be good if we think about other ways the contract will be used.
13:21:44 [jim]
I can't even think about how -this- contract will be used :)
13:22:49 [jim]
err, how it will be used in the way we've been thinking about it :)
13:24:09 [jim]
oh sheesh, that's right, I have a -printer- now ;)
13:25:03 [barstool]
barstool is now known as talli
13:27:01 [davb]
maybe I should just write one, and see how it works, and we can go from there :)
13:28:12 [davb]
http://e4graph.sourceforge.net/
13:28:12 [oacs-chump]
B: http://e4graph.sourceforge.net/ from davb
13:28:33 [davb]
B:| e4graph
13:28:33 [oacs-chump]
titled item B
13:28:44 [davb]
B: persistent storage for graph like data, uses metakit
13:28:44 [oacs-chump]
added comment B1
13:29:52 [davb]
B: C++ library with a Tcl binding
13:29:52 [oacs-chump]
added comment B2
13:30:02 [davb]
B: this sounds cool, but I have no idea how I would use it
13:30:02 [oacs-chump]
added comment B3
13:31:27 [davb]
B:http://radio.weblogs.com/0100136/2002/05/01.html#a156 - Paul Snively is planning on Carbonizing it
13:31:28 [oacs-chump]
added comment B4
13:32:56 [davb]
yeah! my openacs email finally arrived!
13:34:41 [Thursdayphylax]
Yay!
13:34:49 [Thursdayphylax]
paje revive davb
13:34:50 [paje]
* paje gives davb CPR
13:37:53 [markd2]
woo hoo!
13:38:25 [markd2]
clear!
13:38:30 [markd2]
paje, clear!
13:38:31 [paje]
* paje applies defibrulator paddles to *phylax
13:39:28 [talli]
paje, it's happening again
13:39:28 [paje]
* paje strokes markd2's head and whispers gently to calm his manic episode
13:42:05 [markd2]
* markd2 feels much better
13:45:03 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, attack
13:45:03 [paje]
* paje bites marks ankle
13:45:43 [Thursdayphylax]
we need variables and I just ruined a cup of good coffee with apparently sour milk
13:47:47 [davb]
ick
13:51:12 [Thursdayphylax]
yup
13:51:22 [Thursdayphylax]
dumped the whole thing
13:52:23 [Thursdayphylax]
the downside of food that you didn't pay for is that you have no clue how old it is
13:57:06 [markd2]
*phylax, you can have reflexive variables - $who is the person sending the message
13:57:19 [markd2]
I don't think the infobot supports arbitrary processing of stuff
13:57:27 [markd2]
it's written in perl if you want to write a mod :-)
13:59:27 [jim]
paje, owl is <reply> hoo hoo $who $who
13:59:27 [paje]
OK, jim.
13:59:30 [jim]
owl
13:59:37 [jim]
owl?
13:59:37 [paje]
hoo hoo jim jim
13:59:57 [jim]
ok, so that's too simple :)
14:00:02 [jim]
forget owl
14:00:02 [paje]
jim: I forgot owl
14:07:09 [alltelsucks]
alltelsucks (~markd2@h166-102-041-038.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
14:07:10 [markd2]
markd2 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:07:33 [alltelsucks]
alltelsucks is now known as markd2
14:29:13 [talli]
markd2: are you on a dial-up or frame relay?
14:30:44 [markd2]
isdn dialup
14:47:27 [markd2]
integrated suck damn, not working
15:21:18 [Thursdayphylax]
moo?
15:21:19 [paje]
moo Thursdayphylax, glad to see you back!
15:21:24 [Thursdayphylax]
paje botsnack
15:21:25 [paje]
:)
15:22:33 [davb]
moo?
15:22:33 [paje]
moo davb, glad to see you back!
15:22:38 [davb]
cool.
15:23:52 [Thursdayphylax]
moo :)
15:25:17 [markd2]
mü?
15:25:39 [Thursdayphylax]
hehehe
15:25:48 [Thursdayphylax]
paje attack
15:25:48 [paje]
* paje bites marks ankle
15:26:13 [markd2]
attack ~= /marks/mark's/
15:26:16 [markd2]
paje attack
15:26:16 [paje]
* paje bites marks ankle
15:26:20 [markd2]
hmmm
15:26:26 [markd2]
attack ~ /marks/mark's/
15:26:29 [markd2]
paje attack
15:26:30 [paje]
* paje bites marks ankle
15:27:38 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, attack!
15:27:39 [paje]
* paje bites Mark's ankle
15:28:20 [Thursdayphylax]
paje sit
15:28:20 [paje]
* paje sits on barstool
15:28:27 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, getup
15:28:27 [paje]
Thursdayphylax: sorry...
15:28:34 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, get up
15:28:34 [paje]
* paje get off of barstool
15:34:02 [markd2]
gitdown!
15:34:02 [paje]
gitfunky
15:40:13 [Thursdayphylax]
feed mark
15:40:13 [paje]
* paje tosses markd2 a cookie
15:40:26 [markd2]
yay
15:50:05 [Thursdayphylax]
WOOOW
15:50:15 [Thursdayphylax]
ok, I need to inherit like 15,000$
15:50:19 [Thursdayphylax]
so I can buy me some toys
15:51:08 [davb]
I thought you were getting rid of stuff
15:51:14 [Thursdayphylax]
I was
15:51:18 [Thursdayphylax]
but this stuff is small
15:51:20 [Thursdayphylax]
very small
15:51:53 [davb]
ok
15:52:02 [Thursdayphylax]
Problem is
15:52:06 [Thursdayphylax]
it's maaaad expensive :)
15:52:19 [Thursdayphylax]
the digital semi-pro camera is 2,000$
15:52:31 [Thursdayphylax]
a few decent lenses are around 1,000$ a pop
16:26:52 [talli]
rbm: you around?
16:35:28 [talli]
davb: you around?
16:37:39 [Thursdayphylax]
he was a bit ago
16:37:44 [Thursdayphylax]
but paje ate him
16:37:59 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, attack!
16:37:59 [paje]
* paje bites Mark's ankle
16:38:05 [Thursdayphylax]
d'oh, wrong person
16:38:37 [markd2]
ow
17:08:01 [talli]
paje, seen denshi?
17:08:01 [paje]
denshi was last seen on #openacs 2 days, 20 hours, 16 minutes and 33 seconds ago, saying: l8r [Tue Apr 30 14:52:09 2002]
17:08:13 [talli]
hmmm... the bastard's ditched us
17:14:32 [markd2]
heh
17:14:37 [markd2]
maybe he's doing one of those 'vacation' things
17:14:44 [markd2]
or out playing in the Big Room
17:15:13 [talli]
ugh
17:15:19 [talli]
that's dirty
17:16:20 [markd2]
life's dirty. Drink milk.
17:18:28 [talli]
hey markd2, wanna come chat in the #momentum channel?
17:18:47 [markd2]
sure
17:19:50 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@208-59-182-16.s1540.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
17:20:06 [Thursdayphylax]
how come you guys don't do something for Apache
17:20:23 [talli]
yo vinod
17:20:32 [talli]
Thursdayphylax: becuase AOLserver friggin rocks!
17:20:44 [talli]
Thursdayphylax: you mean for momentum or for OACS?
17:20:45 [vinod]
hey talli
17:21:41 [vinod]
is it still thursday?
17:22:12 [talli]
vinod: touche
17:22:28 [vinod]
:-)
17:23:10 [vinod]
i hope i didn't unleash the wrath of talli
17:26:34 [shagster]
lalala
17:27:08 [talli]
yo shagster
17:27:15 [shagster]
yo...yo...
17:27:21 [shagster]
I need a vacation
17:27:30 [talli]
from your balls?
17:27:49 [vinod]
hey shagster
17:27:51 [shagster]
No, I rather enjoy them...maybe a little too much at times :)
17:27:58 [shagster]
Hey vinod
17:28:20 [talli]
glad to hear you like them. sorry to know they are so small.
17:29:17 [shagster]
Well, they have to be, so there would be enough room down there :)
17:29:39 [shagster]
* shagster says #openacs OpenACS chat and TMI about shagster's body parts :)
17:31:06 [markd2]
vinod - LOL on the viagra thing
17:31:44 [vinod]
* vinod smiles innocently
17:32:28 [talli]
* talli swallows another handful of pills
17:32:44 [docwolf]
you're all mad, mad the lot of you.
17:32:47 [talli]
it's amazing how all the blood rushes out of your brain so quickly
17:32:53 [docwolf]
MAD
17:32:57 [vinod]
haha
17:33:14 [vinod]
docwolf is just upset that he doesn't have a gravy train like talli
17:34:03 [docwolf]
heh
17:34:10 [docwolf]
speaking of talli
17:34:22 [docwolf]
i'm trying to build a decent, simple corporate site for wolf bioscience
17:34:23 [talli]
* talli puts hands on ears
17:34:28 [desropolis]
desropolis (desropolis@dsl254-091-187.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #openacs
17:34:30 [docwolf]
and i'm thinking of stealing musea's stylesheet
17:34:33 [docwolf]
pros/cons?
17:34:44 [vinod]
hi desropolis
17:34:54 [desropolis]
hello fellas
17:35:00 [talli]
hey desropolis !
17:35:02 [talli]
welcome!
17:35:08 [vinod]
docwolf: i like musea's site, and stealing from talli is always good
17:35:20 [talli]
* talli agrees with the stealing part
17:35:21 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs
17:35:22 [desropolis]
Glad 2b here talli
17:35:36 [talli]
desropolis: you can start laughing at vinod now
17:35:45 [talli]
it's great fun. at his expense
17:35:49 [desropolis]
<stifled giggle>
17:35:51 [vinod]
talli: ya know - http://museatech.net still goes to urbanparks for me
17:36:04 [talli]
friggin' fix your DNS!
17:36:11 [talli]
i'll ask my sysadmin about it
17:36:19 [vinod]
it's not my dns - i tries it at mit as well
17:36:54 [docwolf]
maybe i will steal the musea stuff
17:37:03 [talli]
hmmm... weird
17:37:12 [talli]
docwolf: what do you want to steal?
17:37:14 [docwolf]
though i'll have to integrate it with the wolfwater GC rant-and-rave software
17:37:23 [talli]
why not spend some friggin money and hire a GA?
17:37:29 [docwolf]
talli: i'm just trying to come up with a simple corporate site.
17:40:19 [desropolis]
Can I ask a quick question about relationships?
17:41:20 [docwolf]
desropolis: are you sure you're in the right channel?
17:41:32 [vinod]
sure - asking is free. getting an answer is less reliable :-)
17:42:58 [desropolis]
Heh. If you liked that one you'll love the following: I think I have a three way relationship I'm not sure how to express.
17:44:12 [vinod]
docwolf: have you seen this site?
17:44:15 [vinod]
http://www.oswd.org/
17:44:15 [oacs-chump]
C: http://www.oswd.org/ from vinod
17:44:26 [vinod]
C:| Open Source Web Design
17:44:26 [oacs-chump]
titled item C
17:44:39 [vinod]
C: pick a design you like and steal it :-)
17:44:39 [oacs-chump]
added comment C1
17:44:44 [docwolf]
oh my
17:45:10 [talli]
desropolis: the person to ask about that stuff is probably davb or rbm
17:45:19 [talli]
vinod, you know about relationships in oacs?
17:45:35 [docwolf]
vinod is the master of 3-way relationships
17:45:41 [vinod]
talli: i haven't used them yet
17:45:42 [markd2]
markd2 has left #openacs
17:45:43 [docwolf]
why do you think he keeps all those blue pills on hand?
17:45:49 [vinod]
docwolf: sssssh!
17:45:56 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-038.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
17:46:04 [shagster]
Yea, I've seen those pictures
17:46:28 [talli]
desropolis: seems that davb is out for now
17:46:53 [desropolis]
OK, it can wait.
17:46:53 [talli]
hey guys, help desropolis! he's a newbie doing some killer OACS work!
17:47:17 [rzolf]
er.
17:47:29 [vinod]
desropolis: i assume you've seen the sparse docs at http://yoursite/doc/acs-content-repository/guide/object-relationships.html
17:48:21 [rzolf]
rzolf has left #openacs
17:48:58 [desropolis]
Yes. I've picked a primary relationship: 'rating'. It's between a user and an acs-object.
17:50:06 [desropolis]
the thing is an object may be rated in any number of 'dimensions'
17:50:18 [desropolis]
a dimension is also an object
17:50:48 [desropolis]
One rating dimension may be 'interesting' another may be 'pretty'
17:51:16 [desropolis]
You can rate a given acs-object on either dimension, or, of course, both.
17:51:30 [vinod]
so each dimension is a subtype of 'rating'
17:52:39 [desropolis]
I hadn't thought of it that way. Right now it seems more to me to be an attribute of a rating
17:54:50 [vinod]
oh, ok. so a user could have multiple 'rating's, each with an attribute 'dimension' = 'type of rating' and attribute 'value'='4'
17:56:07 [desropolis]
yeah: I give RED a 4 in the interesting dimension. I also give BLUE a 4 in the 'interesting' dimension
17:57:19 [davb]
is the rating also an acs-object?
17:57:39 [vinod]
yup - it's an acs_rel
17:58:12 [davb]
I was thinking the raiting would be one object, the thing being rated is another object, and there is a relationship between them.
17:58:21 [davb]
* davb reads the docs again
17:59:14 [vinod]
i think desropolis is setting up a user as one obj, a thing being rated as another obj and the rating as the relation between em
17:59:40 [desropolis]
vinod- right. That was my intuition.
18:00:01 [davb]
ah.
18:00:03 [davb]
I see.
18:00:05 [vinod]
the link i gave above was for the CR - more appropriate docs here: http://yoursite/doc/object-system-design.html#objects-design-relation-types
18:00:26 [davb]
that makes sense. then you don't lose the information of who rated what.
18:01:13 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs
18:01:13 [desropolis]
Oh, that's very important for KM. You want to know what kind of user liked which things.
18:01:20 [rzolf]
hey, is the ruby port done?
18:01:29 [vinod]
then the rating could have an extended table with 2 columns - 'dimension' and 'value'. Dimension would be the type of rating and 'value' the actual numerical rating
18:01:54 [vinod]
rzolf: markd2 is working on that. he says it's right after the FORTRAN port
18:02:01 [talli]
rzolf: no but we moved the discussions of that project to #obnoxious on irc.lurkers.net
18:02:10 [markd2]
or OBJECT-GOATRAN
18:02:27 [rzolf]
just let me know when it is finished up.
18:02:36 [vinod]
how long since the last mention of goats. has to be some kind of record
18:02:44 [rzolf]
i wrote this sweet ruby->smalltalk converter in haskell.
18:02:49 [rzolf]
which i'd like to try out.
18:03:12 [desropolis]
That's the way I have it now. I'll just be manually inserting the dimension id into the rating table.
18:04:11 [vinod]
so, then you'll have a separate dimension table, which won't be an acs-object, right?
18:05:28 [vinod]
rzolf: are you going to add a curl interpreter to your converter. that would be cool
18:06:02 [rzolf]
no because i don't have a curl indentation mode for VIM yet.
18:07:14 [vinod]
* vinod goes to get his laundry
18:09:31 [desropolis]
that's the thing dimension IS an object! That's why I'm a bit put off. Don Baccus suggested granting Dimension objecthood.
18:10:04 [davb]
I don't think it needs to be an object.
18:10:09 [davb]
* davb rereads the bboard posts
18:16:03 [desropolis]
It's OK with me.
18:16:25 [desropolis]
Object, not-an-object. As long as I don't paint myself into a corner.
18:20:11 [davb]
ok.
18:20:23 [davb]
you need two different relationships. if you make them all objects.
18:20:36 [desropolis]
Hmmm.
18:21:04 [davb]
a rating relation ship between the thing and the rating object
18:21:13 [desropolis]
yah.
18:21:17 [davb]
and a dimension relationship between the rating and the dimension object.
18:22:24 [desropolis]
Ok, so I can relate a user and an acs-object via a rating object which is a relationship...
18:22:48 [desropolis]
and then relate that to a dimension object in another relationship.
18:22:55 [davb]
wait.
18:23:19 [davb]
the rating object is related to the object that is being rated by the relationship.
18:23:51 [davb]
maybe not.
18:24:48 [desropolis]
The rating object is a relationship between a 'rater' and a 'rated.'
18:24:58 [desropolis]
The way I see it.
18:26:28 [desropolis]
One attribute is the 'rating value.' The other is the 'rating dimension.'
18:28:05 [desropolis]
Only the 'rating dimension' is an object itself. It has attributes: 'name,' 'max_rating,' 'min_rating,' 'description.' It, naturally, has an id.
18:29:41 [vinod]
hmmm - it seems to me that dimension and rating are so closely related to each other that we don't need to model it as an acs_rel, but simply as a foreign key from 1 to the other
18:29:49 [davb]
right.
18:30:14 [vinod]
user and the rated object, on the other hand are not tightly bound, so we use acs_rel as a loose way of associating them
18:30:22 [davb]
I agree with vinod.
18:30:45 [davb]
have we explained it clearly?
18:30:56 [desropolis]
Yes, I'm just digesting...
18:31:47 [desropolis]
It sounds good to me. This way dimension can still be an object, though, right?
18:31:52 [vinod]
right
18:31:57 [vinod]
just not an acs-rel
18:32:07 [vinod]
instead a simple subclass of acs_object
18:32:39 [desropolis]
Well. This solution appeals to me, in no small amount because that was the way I was leaning anyway!
18:32:52 [desropolis]
It is excellent to have validaion, though.
18:33:13 [davb]
I like it. I will probably be using the package.
18:36:21 [deandesro]
deandesro (desropolis@dsl254-091-187.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #openacs
18:36:21 [desropolis]
desropolis has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:36:39 [deandesro]
Whoa.
18:38:29 [deandesro]
This is my first time using IRC, so bear with me. Looks like my nick changed, here.
18:39:40 [vinod]
heh - don't worry about it. Thursdayphylax changes his nick on a daily basis :-)
18:40:33 [talli]
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18:43:57 [davb]
vinod: I don't think there is a built in way to add an extension table to acs_rel objects.
18:44:07 [davb]
nm.
18:44:09 [davb]
i lied.
18:44:12 [davb]
:)
18:47:01 [deandesro]
It looks like Baccus agrees with us. I was just emailing with him. Well, that's pretty much settled. It's forward for me. Except I'm doing some billable stuff today. How do you guys find time to hack open source stuff?
18:47:44 [markd2]
unemployment
18:47:45 [vinod]
we charge for the time answering questions here. your bill is in the mail :-)
18:48:37 [davb]
hey!
18:48:44 [vinod]
damn - markd2 blew my cover
18:49:35 [markd2]
I don't actually contribute, I just have manic episdes in the chanel
18:49:40 [Thursdayphylax]
* Thursdayphylax had indian food for lunch
18:49:42 [davb]
yeah, noone pays me, so I have time to learn stuff and share.
18:49:45 [Thursdayphylax]
Spiiiicy
18:49:50 [Thursdayphylax]
paje attack!
18:49:51 [paje]
* paje bites Mark's ankle
18:50:21 [deandesro]
markd2 - I'll be with you before too long. My longtime contract is LOW on funds.
18:50:36 [Thursdayphylax]
paje, it's happening again!
18:50:37 [paje]
* paje strokes markd2's head and whispers gently to calm his manic episode
18:50:47 [Thursdayphylax]
oh crap
18:50:50 [Thursdayphylax]
aren't I behind the times
18:50:54 [Thursdayphylax]
Thursdayphylax is now known as Fridayphylax
18:51:04 [Fridayphylax]
* Fridayphylax "officially" clocks in
18:53:25 [davb]
brb
18:53:27 [davb]
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18:54:14 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
18:54:39 [Fridayphylax]
I should really get Jim to give me the improved infobo
18:54:39 [Fridayphylax]
t
18:55:17 [davb]
did anyone read the letter from peru to the MS guy I linked to last night?
18:55:43 [Fridayphylax]
nope
18:55:46 [vinod]
davb: yeah
18:55:49 [markd2]
nope
18:55:55 [vinod]
it was great
18:56:19 [davb]
I think it was some of the best writing I have ever seen on free software.
18:56:39 [davb]
A:
18:56:39 [oacs-chump]
http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html
18:56:40 [oacs-chump]
(1:davb) A most interesting letter regarding free software
18:56:41 [oacs-chump]
(2:davb) the most clear arguments for free software I have read
18:56:59 [vinod]
free software for international govt's is such a home run that it's not even funny
18:57:40 [vinod]
who wants proprietary american software running intimate details of your gov't
18:57:46 [davb]
right.
19:00:45 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
19:03:09 [Fridayphylax]
me me me
19:03:47 [davb]
argh. I have to go fix something we fixed this morning. it worked great until the users touched it.
19:12:26 [davb]
that was fun
19:13:02 [Fridayphylax]
* Fridayphylax eats dave
19:13:22 [Fridayphylax]
* Fridayphylax coughts up dave and exclaims.."Not very tasty...not very tasty at all"
19:13:56 [davb]
hey
19:15:19 [Fridayphylax]
Anyone know what Kvas is?
19:16:12 [deandesro]
nope
19:21:54 [davb]
A Russian fermented beverage similar to beer, made from rye or barley?
19:22:27 [lethedrinker]
fermented horse milk?
19:22:39 [markd2]
fermented llamas?
19:22:48 [lethedrinker]
feral markd2?
19:22:57 [talli]
uh oh
19:22:57 [markd2]
* markd2 growls
19:23:04 [talli]
paje, it's happening again
19:23:04 [paje]
* paje strokes markd2's head and whispers gently to calm his manic episode
19:23:05 [markd2]
paje, it's happening again
19:23:06 [paje]
* paje strokes markd2's head and whispers gently to calm his manic episode
19:23:14 [lethedrinker]
lol
19:23:50 [docwolf]
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19:25:27 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
19:30:51 [rzolf]
what the.
19:32:38 [rzolf]
rzolf has quit ("rzolf has no reason")
19:37:14 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-038.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
19:37:57 [markd2]
markd2 has quit (Client Quit)
20:07:15 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-038.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
20:07:31 [markd2]
seen rzolf?
20:07:31 [paje]
rzolf was last seen on #openacs 36 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying: what the. [Fri May 3 13:31:32 2002]
20:08:17 [donb]
donb (~donb@dsl-dhogaza.pacifier.net) has joined #openacs
20:08:26 [donb]
Wow there really are people here ...
20:09:05 [donb]
Maybe there aren't after all ... hmmm ...
20:09:15 [davb]
they usually wake up
20:09:34 [davb]
if you say their name.
20:09:36 [deandesro]
yello.
20:09:50 [Fridayphylax]
hey
20:10:17 [Fridayphylax]
greet
20:10:22 [Fridayphylax]
paje, greet
20:10:22 [paje]
* paje greets donb
20:11:18 [markd2]
hello
20:16:04 [talli]
yo donb !
20:16:05 [vinod]
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20:16:23 [talli]
donb: you scared off vinod. nice.
20:16:33 [talli]
i've been trying to do that for a while
20:22:37 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-97-176.s684.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
20:27:08 [davb]
bye.
20:27:11 [davb]
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20:32:33 [donb]
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20:35:35 [docwolf]
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20:40:36 [deandesro]
Have a good weekend everyone. Thanks for your help.
20:40:38 [deandesro]
deandesro has quit ()
20:46:40 [vinod]
vinod has quit ("changing universes")
20:50:20 [donb]
donb (~donb@dsl-dhogaza.pacifier.net) has joined #openacs
20:50:42 [donb]
OK, which of you, Talli or Adam, made my linux system crash for the first time this year?
20:50:54 [donb]
I come to chat and zing! down she goes
20:50:57 [Fridayphylax]
* Fridayphylax points to paje
20:51:17 [shagster]
I did it. My bad. Everything is my fault today :)
20:51:40 [donb]
Now I have to run as it turns out ... gotta ship a photo off to Nat'l Geographic World
20:51:49 [donb]
Anyone want their FedEx number? :)
20:51:56 [Fridayphylax]
Me
20:52:02 [shagster]
I'll trade you BP's for it :)
20:52:24 [donb]
BP's not a very classy organization ... not like Nat'l Geo!
20:52:28 [Fridayphylax]
I want to send them naked chicks
20:52:48 [shagster]
Donb, I know.
20:53:05 [Fridayphylax]
The mother goose must have had a bunch there's a whole load of them running around outside like little yellow fuzzballs
20:53:05 [donb]
115 lb naked chick by overnight FedEx? A passenger ticket would be cheaper ...
20:53:37 [donb]
There will be fewer next week ... and fewer the week after ...
20:53:59 [donb]
(remember I study hawks!)
20:54:46 [donb]
Talli, do you do *anything* other than IRC? :)
20:54:52 [donb]
and beer?
20:54:52 [paje]
i think beer is ok
20:55:34 [donb]
Beer comes later now it is off to FedEx then to work ... see y'all later.
20:55:37 [donb]
donb has quit ("changing universes")
21:14:03 [Fridayphylax]
paje, give me beer
21:14:03 [paje]
Fridayphylax: what?
21:46:56 [markd2]
markd2 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:57:07 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:21:26 [rzolf]
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23:27:34 [rzolf]
rzolf has quit ("rzolf has no reason")
23:46:28 [stevo]
stevo (~stephen@h24-64-176-72.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #openacs
23:47:40 [stevo]
y'all...
23:47:48 [stevo]
anyone using xmlrpc
23:54:41 [talli]
hey stevo
23:54:47 [stevo]
hey...
23:54:53 [talli]
dabv was working on getting tclSOAP to work
23:54:57 [talli]
i think he had some success
23:55:15 [stevo]
I was testing with the python xmlrpc lib
23:55:29 [stevo]
it's broken, sending an incorrect http request
23:55:55 [stevo]
aolserver barfs, but looking at the code I thought it shouldn't...
23:56:27 [stevo]
I guess you don't have any experience with that?
23:56:45 [talli]
i don't
23:56:50 [stevo]
oh well
23:56:55 [talli]
were you using pywx?
23:57:18 [stevo]
no, just python as a client, interactive interpreter
23:57:28 [talli]
ah,
23:57:31 [talli]
dunno
23:57:46 [talli]
davb said he won't be around till late tonight, if at all
23:57:51 [talli]
but he'll be here tomorrow
23:57:53 [talli]
for sure
23:57:56 [stevo]
okay, thanks
23:59:49 [stevo]
well I'm off to see if I can fix this by myself. seeya...
23:59:53 [stevo]
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