IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:32 [rbm]
new Outlook (2000, 2002) vulnerability allows your PC to be 0wn3d by forwarding or redirecting messages.
00:00:41 [syslogd]
nice
00:02:37 [syslogd]
Roberto, what is your fastest computer?
00:03:01 [rbm]
Debian is funky. People submit bug reports with what they think is the gramatically correct description of the package.
00:03:07 [rbm]
syslogd: K6-2 300
00:04:24 [syslogd]
ok
00:11:30 [rbm]
* rbm goes out to try to get his car working, again
00:11:48 [syslogd]
Roberto, do you know where we can look up if the onboard sound on the ECS will work in Linux?
00:20:34 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has left #openacs
01:41:46 [syslogd]
oh shit
01:41:54 [syslogd]
Roberto: http://www.soyousa.com/images/800x600_products_mb/kt333_dragon_ultra(silver).jpg
01:42:01 [syslogd]
And look! It's Linux compatible :)
02:04:24 [rbm]
* rbm is back, frustrated once again
02:05:08 [rbm]
syslogd: That's a pretty board
02:06:03 [talli]
hey rbm
02:06:34 [talli]
i went over to fscs.usu.edu and recruited some of your usu guys to momentum
02:08:54 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
02:11:39 [davb]
hi
02:14:13 [talli]
hey davb
02:15:22 [davb]
openacs is in a slow time right now.
02:15:34 [talli]
how so?
02:15:52 [davb]
bboard seems slow. did you get any messages today? (maybe its my email :)
02:17:17 [talli]
quite a few
02:17:40 [rbm]
talli: fslc? really?
02:17:53 [talli]
yeah
02:18:01 [talli]
you didn't see me?
02:18:04 [talli]
in #linux
02:18:34 [rbm]
talli: I just got back from trying to fix my very old, fridging, break-every-other-month car
02:18:52 [talli]
ah, bummer
02:19:07 [rbm]
I'm not good with cars
02:19:19 [syslogd]
hey
02:19:21 [syslogd]
it's roberto
02:19:23 [syslogd]
and dave
02:19:25 [syslogd]
and talli
02:19:27 [syslogd]
wow
02:19:34 [syslogd]
I'm missing the party...AGAIN
02:20:20 [syslogd]
* syslogd is trying to find cheap parts for Roberto
02:20:32 [rbm]
* rbm is trying to find a decent paying job
02:20:38 [syslogd]
:-/
02:21:12 [rbm]
Today I spent hours going between my advisor, the school of graduate studies, the registrar's office and the dean's office
02:21:24 [rbm]
Everybody says one different thing about graduation, split forms and stuff
02:21:39 [syslogd]
that sucks
02:21:48 [rbm]
But I think I finally figured it ouht
02:23:01 [syslogd]
Roberto
02:23:11 [syslogd]
I insist you get the Soyo Dragon+
02:23:16 [rbm]
Oh, why's that?
02:23:31 [syslogd]
Because they claim Linux/FreeBSD compatibility
02:23:42 [syslogd]
I know it's one of the things more important to you ;)
02:23:56 [davb]
argh. i have't gotten any openacs mail today.
02:24:09 [syslogd]
* syslogd sends some random mail to dave to make him happier
02:24:15 [davb]
heh
02:24:50 [syslogd]
check your mail
02:27:45 [rbm]
my mail?
02:28:05 [syslogd]
no
02:28:06 [syslogd]
dave
02:28:52 [davb]
heh
02:29:46 [syslogd]
:)
02:29:58 [syslogd]
Does it make you feel warm and fuzzy inside now that you got some OpenACS mail?
02:30:08 [davb]
sure.
02:30:15 [syslogd]
Excellent
02:30:22 [davb]
i have one from yesterday, but none of the openacs mail from today arrived, except yours.
02:30:40 [davb]
all mine are even older than rbm's computer.
02:30:45 [syslogd]
lol
02:30:58 [syslogd]
you know, notice was used for a reason
02:31:07 [syslogd]
* syslogd thwaps© davb with some Oacs mail
02:32:54 [davb]
ah.
02:33:19 [davb]
sorry :). my client did not make a clear distinction.
02:33:41 [syslogd]
* syslogd punches dave in the eye...does it make a clear distinction now?
02:34:03 [davb]
ow
02:34:08 [syslogd]
I got Grand Jury Duty on Monday
02:34:14 [syslogd]
I'm not getting paid for it either
02:34:18 [davb]
ick
02:34:19 [syslogd]
sux to be meeee
02:38:54 [rbm]
syslogd: Hey, you could have an old screwed up car and have a college-sallary job!
02:39:14 [syslogd]
wait, I have that already
02:40:39 [syslogd]
lucky for me I still live with my mommy and daddy
02:43:38 [rbm]
Crap. There are so many frigging details to watch out for in a Debian package.
02:43:45 [syslogd]
lol
02:44:34 [syslogd]
hrm
02:44:35 [syslogd]
Roberto
02:44:47 [syslogd]
:)
02:45:01 [syslogd]
you need to e-mail me your address so I can send you a check
02:45:33 [rbm]
syslogd: okay.
02:46:21 [rbm]
sent
02:46:56 [syslogd]
Is your PayPal in that e-mail addy too? Just in case I do paypal
02:48:21 [rbm]
syslogd: yes.
02:49:32 [syslogd]
k
02:53:48 [syslogd]
Roberto
02:54:02 [syslogd]
look at hte first question
02:55:26 [syslogd]
actually, they're all relevant
02:56:12 [rbm]
syslogd: Okay.
02:58:00 [rbm]
* rbm fixes bugs on his debian package
03:00:03 [rbm]
* rbm promises to pay it forward when it has money.
03:00:14 [rbm]
s/it/he/
03:00:35 [syslogd]
hehe
03:00:57 [talli]
ok guys
03:01:01 [talli]
i'm going to sleep
03:01:05 [talli]
talk to you tomorrow
03:01:08 [rbm]
talli: Go to paypal before
03:01:19 [syslogd]
ok, see ya talli
03:04:17 [syslogd]
* syslogd rearranges a few more things on the wishlist
03:05:43 [syslogd]
does that ATI card supported under *nix?
03:06:45 [davb]
ATI has excellent linux support.
03:06:53 [syslogd]
heh
03:06:56 [davb]
i think its in the kernel.
03:06:59 [syslogd]
I wish I could say the same thing for windows
03:07:13 [davb]
ack
03:07:26 [davb]
i use nvidia, in case I decide to play games.
03:07:52 [davb]
well, i too will depart, for now.
03:08:00 [syslogd]
me 3
03:08:47 [syslogd]
Roberto...which video card did you want
03:09:15 [syslogd]
the ATI Radeon 7000 comes in a few diff flavors
03:10:15 [rbm]
Hmmm, I guess I should take into consideration that this computer will be occasionally be dual-booted into windows for games
03:10:26 [syslogd]
ok
03:10:32 [syslogd]
Cuz the way I have it configured right now
03:10:35 [syslogd]
it comes to 400$ flat
03:10:40 [rbm]
In which case I should probably go with nvidia (puke) because everybody says the Windows ATI drivers suck
03:10:59 [syslogd]
Well my Radeon 8500 runs well under windows
03:11:10 [rbm]
How much?
03:11:27 [syslogd]
you have the 47$ Radeon 7000 with 64MB of SDR w/tv for 47$
03:11:38 [syslogd]
For the Radeon 8500?
03:11:47 [syslogd]
I got mine for 100$ after I cheated CompUSA
03:11:55 [syslogd]
It costs about 200$
03:12:24 [davb]
yeah.
03:12:34 [davb]
oh bye :)
03:12:35 [rbm]
wow
03:12:39 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
03:12:40 [syslogd]
* syslogd thwaps dave
03:13:54 [syslogd]
the 35, 39 or 47$?
03:14:08 [syslogd]
you originally picked the 47$ one in your wishlist
03:15:55 [rbm]
You're up to $400 now?
03:16:12 [syslogd]
399.99$ sent to your door
03:16:18 [rbm]
gulp!
03:16:25 [syslogd]
I made a few changes here and there
03:16:47 [rbm]
I wish my boss would pay me the money she owes me
03:17:05 [syslogd]
Specifically: Changed your motherboard for a Soyo Dragon+ and changed the Duron 1.2Ghz to 1Ghz (yours was out of stock again)
03:19:41 [rbm]
The MSI is well supported on Linux too, although I think the Dragon has a much better on-board sound card
03:19:46 [rbm]
s/card/chipset/
03:19:49 [syslogd]
yes
03:20:09 [syslogd]
And they put it on their site too..that their board is Linux/BSD friendly
03:20:15 [rbm]
But for less that the extra $40 I could probably buy a pretty good sound card
03:20:29 [syslogd]
Also true
03:20:37 [rbm]
s/that/than/
03:20:46 [syslogd]
the SB Live! 5.1 is only 32$
03:21:00 [syslogd]
hehehe
03:21:02 [syslogd]
ok
03:21:05 [syslogd]
I have a better idea
03:21:11 [syslogd]
I'll just send you money
03:21:20 [syslogd]
:)
03:21:23 [rbm]
(:
03:21:43 [rbm]
* rbm notices syslogd has no more patience to deal with rbm's woes :)
03:21:49 [syslogd]
lol
03:21:55 [syslogd]
I do
03:22:02 [syslogd]
I do this to people all the time too
03:27:46 [syslogd]
i'm going to bed
03:27:50 [syslogd]
see ya laters
03:28:57 [rbm]
later
03:31:09 [rbm]
Can I change the "from" address on the fly on mutt?
03:36:02 [rbm]
spuk: Sim. Descobri. Na tela onde se aperta "y" para enviar a mensagem, basta tecla <ESC> f para editar o endereco
03:36:09 [rbm]
errr
03:41:40 [hazmat]
hazmat has left #openacs
11:02:27 [syslogd]
yay
11:08:54 [syslogd]
paje seen rbm
11:08:55 [paje]
rbm was last seen on #openacs 7 hours, 32 minutes and 45 seconds ago, saying: errr [Mon Apr 29 21:36:50 2002]
11:17:09 [syslogd]
i have paid off all my recent debts
11:42:50 [jim]
I heard that the win sblive drivers defeat a pci mechanism for fair share of some resource, the upshot of which is other pci cards lose out on fair share of that resource... I forget now, but the resource might be cpu time
11:43:23 [jim]
hence, sblive performance looks better
11:47:34 [syslogd]
well
11:47:42 [syslogd]
the sb live cards come with their own processors
11:49:06 [syslogd]
I think the sb live drivers just suck which is probably why they defeat the PCI mechanism
11:57:08 [syslogd]
* syslogd goes to the bronx for on-site maintenance
11:57:30 [syslogd]
syslogd is now known as Tuesdayphylax-aw
12:06:02 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-024.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
12:49:18 [davb]
davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
12:49:23 [davb]
hi
12:49:23 [paje]
what's up, davb
12:50:11 [markd2]
hello
12:55:47 [yzzyx]
yzzyx (~sar@213-48-248-75.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs
12:55:52 [yzzyx]
hello
12:55:53 [paje]
hola, yzzyx
12:56:52 [yzzyx]
davb: Have you considered buying a secondhand machine?
12:57:27 [davb]
not really. I recently upgraded our computers here (at home)
12:57:43 [yzzyx]
sorry htat was addressed to rbm.
12:57:54 [yzzyx]
s/htat/that
12:58:25 [davb]
ah :)
12:59:19 [yzzyx]
rbm: Or try ebay.
13:01:04 [davb]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521562473/qid%3D1019923813/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/103-0202080-3978231
13:01:04 [oacs-chump]
A: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521562473/qid%3D1019923813/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/103-0202080-3978231 from davb
13:01:14 [davb]
A:|Lisp in Small Pieces
13:01:14 [oacs-chump]
titled item A
13:03:24 [yzzyx]
rbm: Someone may have a systems upgrade engineer contact who should be able to let you have hardware cheaply.
13:04:04 [yzzyx]
bye.
13:04:08 [yzzyx]
yzzyx has left #openacs
13:32:00 [davb]
hmmm. still not getting openacs mail. it says i am subscribed.
13:32:09 [davb]
I'll have to get rbm to check the qmail logs or something.
13:41:29 [markd2]
http://crazyapplerumors.com/2002_04_28_archive.htm#85045150
13:41:29 [oacs-chump]
B: http://crazyapplerumors.com/2002_04_28_archive.htm#85045150 from markd2
13:41:45 [markd2]
B:| Apple Introduces Macs Starting With Remaining Letters Of The Alphabet
13:41:45 [oacs-chump]
titled item B
13:46:53 [rbm]
ooom
13:47:18 [markd2]
wooo
13:52:37 [rbm]
Wow, PostgreSQL runs on the Playstation
14:01:24 [davb]
cool!
14:02:05 [davb]
rbm: do you think there is any way I can find out why my openacs emails are not getting to me?
14:04:43 [rbm]
davb: I guess I could look at the logs since I have r00t on the openacs.org machine
14:05:15 [davb]
if it is not too much trouble. I don't want to annoy anyone :)
14:06:30 [rbm]
@400000003ccea0922a0cc34c starting delivery 847001: msg 359883 to remote dave@thedesignexperience.org
14:06:30 [rbm]
@400000003ccea0922a0cee44 status: local 0/10 remote 1/20
14:06:30 [rbm]
@400000003ccea0922bf695d4 delivery 847001: deferral: Sorry,_I_wasn't_able_to_establish_an_SMTP_connection._(#4.4.1)/
14:06:31 [rbm]
@400000003ccea0922bf6c4b4 status: local 0/10 remote 0/20
14:06:37 [rbm]
The log is full of these
14:06:41 [davb]
argh
14:06:43 [davb]
hmmm
14:06:52 [davb]
I am getting mail from other places.
14:07:05 [rbm]
Let me try to send you mail from that box
14:07:09 [davb]
ok.
14:09:12 [rbm]
How do you flag the start of the message in SMTP?
14:10:42 [rbm]
found it
14:11:24 [rbm]
davb: See if you got a message from me
14:12:17 [davb]
hmmm. nope
14:12:18 [davb]
argh
14:12:21 [rbm]
hang on
14:13:27 [davb]
tada
14:13:40 [rbm]
and now
14:13:49 [davb]
that was delivered.
14:13:59 [rbm]
I made a mistake on the first one.
14:14:41 [davb]
i am not sure why it didn't work. I think what happened was that my ISP or ods.org temporarily screwed up the DNS, maybe someone is caching it still somewhere on the openacs.org side.
14:15:08 [davb]
it doesn't say "which" smtp server it can't connect to huh?
14:15:59 [davb]
djb has a nice overview of the smtp protocol at cr.yp.to
14:16:13 [rbm]
[rmello@ny04 rmello]$ mail -v dave@thedesignexperience.org
14:16:13 [rbm]
Subject: Testing via mail
14:16:13 [rbm]
Foobared
14:16:13 [rbm]
.
14:16:13 [rbm]
Cc:
14:16:14 [rbm]
dave@thedesignexperience.org... Connecting to server1.thedesignexperience.org. via esmtp...
14:16:16 [rbm]
dave@thedesignexperience.org... Deferred: Connection refused by server1.thedesignexperience.org.
14:16:26 [davb]
yep. looks like a dns issue.
14:16:29 [davb]
or something.
14:16:30 [paje]
something is making your delete pl/pgsql procs take way too long.
14:16:34 [davb]
heh
14:16:39 [davb]
paje: botsnack
14:16:39 [paje]
thanks davb :)
14:16:40 [rbm]
heheh
14:16:57 [davb]
can you do a host server1.thedesignexperience.org or whatever dns tool is installed on there?
14:17:12 [davb]
(it really helps to be friends with a gatekeeper)
14:17:15 [davb]
:)
14:17:30 [markd2]
for me, they're 24.58.160.41
14:17:35 [davb]
that is wrong.
14:17:36 [davb]
argh
14:17:42 [davb]
where is that coming from?
14:17:49 [davb]
s/b 24.58.160.28
14:18:18 [markd2]
begin spew from dig
14:18:20 [markd2]
server1.thedesignexperience.org. 1d23h59m43s IN A 24.58.160.41
14:18:26 [davb]
ah.
14:18:27 [markd2]
;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
14:18:27 [markd2]
thedesignexperience.org. 1d23h59m43s IN NS A.NS.ODS.org.
14:18:27 [markd2]
thedesignexperience.org. 1d23h59m43s IN NS A.NS.UK.ODS.org.
14:18:28 [markd2]
thedesignexperience.org. 1d23h59m43s IN NS B.NS.ODS.org.
14:18:28 [markd2]
;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
14:18:29 [markd2]
A.NS.ODS.org. 1d23h59m43s IN A 66.28.41.162
14:18:30 [markd2]
A.NS.UK.ODS.org. 1d23h59m43s IN A 212.100.224.241
14:18:33 [markd2]
B.NS.ODS.org. 1d23h59m43s IN A 64.3.150.188
14:18:34 [markd2]
end spew
14:18:37 [davb]
someone send out old stuff.
14:18:39 [davb]
thanks
14:18:55 [davb]
apparently ods.org was sending out the old dns for some wacky reason.
14:19:07 [davb]
but it was fixed, and some caches have not expired yet.
14:19:08 [markd2]
paje, spank ods.org
14:19:08 [paje]
markd2: excuse me?
14:19:35 [davb]
thanks alot markd2 and rbm!!
14:20:00 [davb]
* davb must learn dig if he want to mess with dns
14:20:09 [rbm]
davb: no problem.
14:20:24 [rbm]
* rbm goes to call the towing place to have his car towed to the garage
14:20:28 [rbm]
*deep sighs*
14:20:38 [davb]
sorry. if I was there, I'd help you fix it.
14:20:38 [markd2]
:-(
14:20:48 [davb]
we could try diagnosing it over IRC :)
14:20:59 [rbm]
hehe.
14:21:16 [rbm]
If only my little honda had a network jack :)
14:21:22 [davb]
that would be cool.
14:21:27 [davb]
how many miles are on it?
14:21:42 [rbm]
I made a new cable to connect my jukebox computer to the LCD display and keypad using cat5 :)
14:21:59 [rbm]
174,000=
14:22:02 [davb]
neat. do the car next.
14:22:04 [rbm]
or something like that
14:22:16 [davb]
well, good luck.
14:22:29 [rbm]
and I have to study for finals :(
14:27:42 [davb]
good luck for that too!
14:30:04 [rbm]
Thanks :)
16:26:32 [markd2]
seen tuesdayphylax?
16:26:32 [paje]
tuesdayphylax was last seen on #openacs 6 days, 13 hours, 14 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: werd [Tue Apr 23 21:12:52 2002]
16:26:58 [rbm]
markd2: he seems to be away
16:28:25 [davb]
* davb is still tackling the nearly impossible MS Office task...
16:29:54 [markd2]
:-(
16:31:02 [davb]
basically, if they didn't think of it, it's impossible, or nearly so.
16:31:27 [markd2]
what is it you're having to do?
16:32:45 [davb]
build a letter that has a list of (n) people on it.
16:33:15 [davb]
its not a problem of getting the data, but the formatting has to be "just so"
16:41:17 [markd2]
which is probably pretty arbitrary
16:43:04 [davb]
it is, but I work with attorneys and civil service workers.
16:44:32 [davb]
http://www.techtv.com/maxheadroom/story/0%2C24330%2C3382150%2C00.html
16:44:32 [oacs-chump]
C: http://www.techtv.com/maxheadroom/story/0%2C24330%2C3382150%2C00.html from davb
16:44:41 [davb]
C:|Max Headroom reruns
16:44:41 [oacs-chump]
titled item C
16:44:56 [markd2]
mmmmm. Fiora....
16:45:17 [davb]
Hey, I had a cool idea. Get the Matrix guys to extend the Max Headroom storylines.
17:14:47 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:15:41 [rbm]
* rbm goes to the doctor with the wife
17:16:32 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
17:26:01 [davb]
hi denshi
17:26:03 [davb]
A:
17:26:03 [oacs-chump]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521562473/qid%3D1019923813/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/103-0202080-3978231
17:26:04 [oacs-chump]
Lisp in Small Pieces
17:26:19 [talli]
http://clients.museatech.net/momentum/
17:26:20 [oacs-chump]
D: http://clients.museatech.net/momentum/ from talli
17:26:40 [davb]
talli: is that etp?
17:26:42 [talli]
D: Area to discuss Momentum and add feature requests and suggestions
17:26:42 [oacs-chump]
added comment D1
17:26:51 [talli]
no, it's the new bugtracker lars built for us
17:26:51 [davb]
neat.
17:27:03 [davb]
I guessed after I followed it a little further.
17:27:12 [talli]
if you want to play with the bug tracker, it's there
17:31:23 [denshi]
A: $90.00 new
17:31:23 [oacs-chump]
added comment A1
17:31:43 [denshi]
A: ...but it's the bible for modern LISP implementations.
17:31:44 [oacs-chump]
added comment A2
17:34:03 [denshi]
whoa.talli, those are some nice templates at your momentum page.
17:34:12 [denshi]
did you sucker lars into working for you?
17:37:51 [denshi]
question. has anyone done anything serious with other languages talking to an OACS database?
17:39:44 [davb]
denshi: heh, I didn't look at the price.
17:39:55 [davb]
denshi: frm inside aolserver?
17:40:21 [denshi]
no, from elsewhere.
17:40:49 [davb]
can't you just talk directly to pg? or am I missing something.
17:41:00 [denshi]
you're missing something
17:41:08 [davb]
as usual :)
17:41:47 [denshi]
i've been testing out writing apps that talk to the oacs schema.
17:42:06 [denshi]
i think the data model is the 90% win in OACS.
17:42:38 [davb]
does that include the pl/sql stuff?
17:42:55 [denshi]
so if I write stuff in Ruby, LISP, or Perl, I've written them all to talk to my oacs4 pg database.
17:43:18 [denshi]
yes, it includes the plpgsql stuff. that's part of the schema.
17:43:31 [denshi]
so has anyone else done this?
17:47:21 [markd2]
nope, just in my object GOATTRAN bindings
17:48:00 [davb]
denshi: would you even need AOLserver at all for this?
17:49:12 [denshi]
mark, have you written up this new goat-based language?
17:50:20 [markd2]
not yet
17:50:28 [markd2]
just vague references to Leviticus
17:51:56 [denshi]
a Leviticus reference might be hard to GC.
17:52:51 [markd2]
you bet your Deuteronomy!
17:55:38 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-102-115.s877.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
17:57:29 [denshi]
it's secret agent pants.
17:57:38 [denshi]
what's new, vinod?
17:58:38 [vinod]
hey denshi
17:59:03 [vinod]
not much new - just recovering from a painful night shift
17:59:22 [vinod]
* vinod is getting too old for night shifts
18:00:16 [denshi]
wtf? I thought you didn't start for a couple more months.
18:00:24 [denshi]
are you still working in Boston?
18:00:57 [vinod]
yeah - i'm still in boston. once i start in nyc - no more night shifts!
18:00:58 [markd2]
street walking again?
18:01:14 [vinod]
heh
18:01:57 [vinod]
yeah, but it's hard drumming up business, even without pants
18:05:48 [davb]
hi vinod
18:06:43 [vinod]
hey davb
18:22:15 [til]
til has quit ("[BX] Leggo my Eggo!")
18:38:32 [markd2]
mmmm.. waffles....
19:21:14 [rbm]
"schema"?
19:22:04 [rbm]
s/^/denshi: /
19:22:42 [rbm]
* rbm grabbed his Cap and Gown
19:22:59 [denshi]
was that a buffer paste in the wrong window, or do you really think all /^ / should be prefixed with my nom de guerre?
19:23:48 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
19:32:32 [rbm]
My regexp put "denshi: " before my previous phrase.
19:35:23 [denshi]
oh.
19:36:02 [denshi]
I thought you were proposing a plan to hack the world's biggest IP switches and add a s/^ /denshi: / filter to all the world's traffic.
19:36:09 [rbm]
(:
19:36:56 [denshi]
so what's your question?
19:37:05 [denshi]
furthermore, why aren't you studying?
19:38:44 [talli]
rbm: you graduate this week?
19:38:46 [talli]
today?
19:47:05 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs
19:49:37 [rzolf]
re.
19:49:52 [talli]
hey rzolf
19:50:45 [rzolf]
wuzzup.
19:50:49 [rzolf]
is roberto around?
19:52:27 [rzolf]
roberto mello, that is.
19:53:52 [denshi]
he's busy graduating and hacking peering points.
19:54:14 [rzolf]
peering points.
19:54:55 [rzolf]
i've been cracking my steering joints.
19:55:00 [rzolf]
and arthritis is setting in.
19:56:48 [denshi]
I thought only cars had steering joints
19:56:48 [rzolf]
hm
19:56:59 [denshi]
how're those mecha implants settling in?
19:57:13 [denshi]
rbm was here 5 minutes ago...
19:57:16 [denshi]
paje, seen rbm?
19:57:16 [paje]
rbm was last seen on #openacs 21 minutes and 6 seconds ago, saying: (: [Tue Apr 30 13:36:50 2002]
19:57:38 [rzolf]
what's new in the world of #openacs.
19:58:24 [denshi]
paje, what's new?
19:58:24 [paje]
i think new is already done too.
19:58:32 [rzolf]
paje, gitdown
19:58:32 [paje]
gitfunky
19:58:40 [denshi]
paje, botsnack.
19:58:40 [paje]
:)
19:59:05 [denshi]
what's new.....
19:59:19 [rzolf]
paje, please deposit $18,000 in unmarked bills into the designated account
19:59:19 [paje]
rzolf: i'm not following you...
19:59:24 [denshi]
rbm is graduating, talli is taking over the calendaring world, vinod is moving to NYC....
19:59:59 [rzolf]
i also heard little paje has become quite a handsome young bot.
20:00:46 [rzolf]
calendering, eh?
20:03:52 [denshi]
jim has some debian stuff, davb is hacking the nsd tcl interpreters to fix environment bugs, lotsa mail stuff going around here
20:04:15 [rzolf]
has the OS/360 port been completed.
20:04:58 [denshi]
of debian? there's the 390 port, but I haven't heard of the 360.
20:06:15 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker (~kapil@216.154.243.230) has joined #openacs
20:07:06 [rzolf]
whoa. lethedrinker.
20:07:12 [denshi]
rzolf, you've probably done this:
20:07:41 [denshi]
oacs-logger, other languages
20:07:42 [denshi]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'other languages', denshi. Try /msg oacs-logger help
20:07:49 [denshi]
crap.
20:08:25 [denshi]
rzolf, earlier I asked the group is anyone has written non-tcl-and-nsd apps that talk primarily to the OACS schema. have you?
20:08:27 [rzolf]
rzolf is now known as acheronimbibe
20:08:42 [acheronimbibe]
sort of.
20:09:33 [acheronimbibe]
i have not used the OACS4 schema though.
20:09:45 [acheronimbibe]
i'm not very smart and it is a tough one to figure out.
20:10:31 [acheronimbibe]
however the docwolf.project is utilizing a variant of the OACS3.x schema
20:10:37 [acheronimbibe]
and is being talked to by python.
20:10:52 [denshi]
cool.
20:10:55 [acheronimbibe]
but it is only using like 4% of the OACS schema.
20:11:14 [denshi]
oh. well, acs3.x was just training wheels for most apps.
20:11:18 [acheronimbibe]
beyond the "users" table.
20:11:32 [denshi]
it takes a while, but I've used much more of the 4.x schema.
20:18:09 [acheronimbibe]
it takes longer for me to figure out what is going on in other people's schemas than it does to just write my own schema.
20:18:09 [acheronimbibe]
acheronimbibe is now known as rzolf
20:18:09 [rzolf]
has anyone worked with webobjects?
20:18:09 [denshi]
i was once attacked by webobjects in a dark alley
20:18:09 [rzolf]
it seems out of control, but potentially a good way to make money in the financials industry
20:18:09 [denshi]
after that experience, I shared a last-caltrain-is-gone cab down the SF peninsula with a couple other caltrain victims, who turned out to be ... webobjects engineers!!
20:18:18 [rzolf]
wow.
20:18:33 [rzolf]
also, i've heard that webobjects autogenerates forms.
20:18:36 [denshi]
40 minutes of uncontrolled database argument.
20:18:44 [denshi]
they'll never say hi to a stranger again.
20:18:52 [rzolf]
is that available in openacs yet?
20:19:17 [denshi]
form generation?
20:19:20 [rzolf]
yes
20:19:29 [denshi]
yes, in several ways.
20:19:33 [denshi]
lemme get you a link
20:19:57 [rzolf]
i like ad_page_contract
20:20:16 [rzolf]
but the last time i looked at OACS i didn not see anything that just automagically built forms for you.
20:20:27 [yzzyx]
yzzyx (~sar@213-48-252-21.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs
20:20:29 [rzolf]
actually i think that is more of a function of the editor anyway.
20:20:36 [rzolf]
yzzyx.
20:20:59 [rzolf]
thus I wrote some emacs macros to do it.
20:21:05 [lethedrinker]
hello
20:21:27 [denshi]
can you send me those macros?
20:21:35 [rzolf]
sure.
20:21:40 [rzolf]
you need tempo.el
20:22:04 [rzolf]
and html-helper-mode
20:22:26 [lethedrinker]
rzolf: how does the python talk to the openacs3x db layer?
20:22:35 [rzolf]
with psycopg
20:22:38 [lethedrinker]
rzolf: ie. is there an abstraction layer?
20:22:50 [lethedrinker]
or are you just playing around with raw queries and directly with the tables?
20:23:08 [yzzyx]
Hello
20:23:08 [paje]
bonjour, yzzyx
20:23:24 [rzolf]
i wrote a function library that mimics the openacs db_ library.
20:23:54 [rzolf]
i'm not doing anything beyond that.
20:24:13 [lethedrinker]
ic
20:24:29 [rzolf]
i noticed your PageContract thing at zopelabs.
20:24:36 [rzolf]
i wrote something similar
20:24:42 [rzolf]
also called PageContract.
20:24:43 [rzolf]
hehe.
20:24:45 [lethedrinker]
i've been playing around with an idea of autogenerating classes from the pg data dictionary
20:25:00 [lethedrinker]
yes it is. its designed after ad_page_contract.
20:25:10 [lethedrinker]
a little more flexible.. but same philosophy.
20:25:22 [rzolf]
i have been thinking of autogenerating stuff, but for the most part I try not to think very hard
20:25:34 [lethedrinker]
most people in the zope community use Formulator which also does form generation.
20:26:00 [rzolf]
yes i have noticed that.
20:26:24 [lethedrinker]
but page contract is a little more flexible for my usages... although i like formulator's form generation.
20:26:52 [lethedrinker]
i tend to use page contract as generic method input validation.. not just for forms.
20:27:13 [lethedrinker]
does anyone here understand the tree encoding schema in acs4??
20:27:25 [rzolf]
that seems like a good idea. however i never really input from sources other than forms.
20:27:38 [rzolf]
aside from CVS files.
20:28:01 [denshi]
lethedrinker: what do you mean 'tree encoding'?
20:28:13 [denshi]
you mean, the adjacency list model?
20:28:31 [lethedrinker]
rzolf: me neither, but in large systems it functions somewhat akin to a method contract... which helps as systems grow large, esp. in a dynamic language like.
20:28:50 [lethedrinker]
denshi: umm... sure.. i mean the varbit encoding scheme for tree heirarchies.
20:30:01 [lethedrinker]
i was wondering how to go about selecting all the children of a given node, ie can i just do a select against the table with a like operation against the sort_key column with my target node's sor_key
20:31:06 [rzolf]
sadly I tend to avoid keeping up with the system as it grows, unless my salary is growing accordingly
20:31:50 [davb]
bbl.
20:31:56 [davb]
davb has quit ()
20:47:05 [rzolf]
Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, But I predict that within 100 years computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings in Europe will own them."
20:48:29 [denshi]
simpsons quote?
20:48:38 [rzolf]
yes
20:51:05 [denshi]
i've gotta run
20:51:13 [denshi]
can you email me your formgen macros?
20:51:25 [rzolf]
yes
20:51:25 [rzolf]
i gotta go too. unless roberto is back.
20:51:28 [denshi]
l8r
20:51:36 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
20:54:16 [rbm]
http://hypersql.sourceforge.net/
20:54:17 [oacs-chump]
E: http://hypersql.sourceforge.net/ from rbm
20:54:25 [rbm]
E:| Generate HTML descriptions from SQL files
20:54:25 [oacs-chump]
titled item E
20:54:36 [rbm]
http://hyperschema.sourceforge.net
20:54:37 [oacs-chump]
F: http://hyperschema.sourceforge.net from rbm
20:54:39 [lethedrinker]
dbdoc.sf.net
20:54:40 [rzolf]
hello rbm.
20:54:43 [lethedrinker]
in python even ;)
20:54:51 [rbm]
F:| Similarly, generate HTML descriptions from SQL files
20:54:52 [oacs-chump]
titled item F
20:55:01 [lethedrinker]
http://dbdoc.sf.net
20:55:01 [oacs-chump]
G: http://dbdoc.sf.net from lethedrinker
20:55:05 [rbm]
* rbm looks at dbdoc
20:55:20 [lethedrinker]
G: ditto re html gen for oracle and pgsql, fairly basic, in python
20:55:21 [oacs-chump]
added comment G1
20:55:37 [lethedrinker]
G:| bah
20:55:38 [oacs-chump]
titled item G
20:56:21 [rbm]
rzolf: Sorry I didn't notice you were looking for me earlier
20:56:27 [rzolf]
np.
20:57:42 [yzzyx]
rbm: Have you got a definite plan to buy your new computer?
20:58:20 [lethedrinker]
rbm: could you help me out with a pg tree question?
20:58:22 [rzolf]
what type of computer are you going to buy?
20:58:38 [rbm]
yzzyx: I'm trying to, but by definition things are only "definite" (certain) if you have all the resources to accomplish a certain goal, and that's not my case :-)
20:59:22 [rbm]
lethedrinker: I saw your question earlier... Like I said, I don't remember the adjacency model that well anymore. It's been a while.
20:59:35 [rbm]
lethedrinker: However, I think I have an e-mail from Joe Celko that explained it quite well
20:59:46 [rbm]
lethedrinker: The best thing is to just ask in the bboards.
20:59:59 [lethedrinker]
rbm: is that the same letter thats on techdocs.pg.org ?
21:00:25 [rbm]
lethedrinker: Hmm, don't know. Maybe.
21:00:46 [lethedrinker]
hmm.. actually i think i saw it on pl/pgsql recipes..
21:00:47 [lethedrinker]
* lethedrinker digs
21:01:54 [yzzyx]
rbm: You could make your money go further by either buying secondhand, via ebay or via a systems upgrade engineer.
21:02:11 [rzolf]
rbm: what type of system are you looking to purchase?
21:02:26 [yzzyx]
rbm: the latter tend to get the eqpt free, so could be surprisingly cheap.
21:02:44 [rbm]
lethedrinker: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=CELKO+group:comp.databases.postgresql.sql&hl=en&selm=c0d87ec0.0110311714.3c2d0de8%40posting.google.com&rnum=8
21:02:50 [rbm]
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=CELKO+group:comp.databases.postgresql.sql&hl=en&selm=c0d87ec0.0110311714.3c2d0de8%40posting.google.com&rnum=8
21:02:50 [oacs-chump]
H: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=CELKO+group:comp.databases.postgresql.sql&hl=en&selm=c0d87ec0.0110311714.3c2d0de8%40posting.google.com&rnum=8 from rbm
21:03:08 [rbm]
H:| The Adjacency List model explained by Joe Celko
21:03:08 [oacs-chump]
titled item H
21:03:33 [rbm]
rzolf: A pretty decent machine. Mine is pretty slow.
21:03:42 [lethedrinker]
rbm: cool, thanks. i think i saw that earlier... but looking through the acs-core/ postgresql.sql utils. i was hoping to just reuse stuff thats already been written.
21:03:42 [rzolf]
what do you run? linux?
21:03:46 [rzolf]
mac OS?
21:03:48 [rzolf]
NT?
21:03:48 [lethedrinker]
* lethedrinker heads out to a meeting
21:03:48 [rzolf]
etc.
21:03:49 [rbm]
yzzyx: I don't know what a systems upgrade engineer is.
21:04:13 [rbm]
rzolf: The box I want to build will be run Linux 98% of the time. Win2k the rest.
21:05:40 [yzzyx]
These chaps are contracted to maintain and upgrade a company's eqpt.
21:06:15 [rbm]
yzzyx: And how do I find one of these 'engineers'?
21:06:19 [yzzyx]
I've had the good fortune to make an acquaintance out of an IBM engineer in the UK.
21:06:35 [yzzyx]
rbm: Ask around?
21:06:53 [rbm]
I guess I could look at ebay
21:07:04 [rbm]
But buying at ebay is more like gambling to me.
21:07:11 [yzzyx]
rbm: Some people here may have the contacts in the US.
21:07:33 [rzolf]
roberto: ask docwolf, he knows a lot about PC construction
21:07:40 [rzolf]
and where to buy.
21:07:51 [yzzyx]
rbm: I agree, but if you limit yourself to people near you, you can check the eqpt first.
21:08:39 [yzzyx]
rbm: In the UK, the comp fairs are good for new stuff.
21:22:09 [rzolf]
enjoy.
21:22:19 [rzolf]
rzolf has quit ("rzolf has no reason")
21:43:43 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
21:56:57 [yzzyx]
yzzyx has left #openacs
21:57:39 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-53-191.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
22:39:02 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
22:45:56 [denshi]
denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:56:41 [davb]
lethedrinker: here is one post about using between instead of like
22:56:43 [davb]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00043D&topic_id=14&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Testing
22:56:43 [oacs-chump]
I: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00043D&topic_id=14&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Testing from davb
23:02:48 [lethedrinker]
davb: thanks!!
23:03:26 [davb]
np.
23:03:44 [davb]
I am looking to see if I can find examples of various queries.
23:04:03 [davb]
but I don't quite understand what they do yet :)
23:04:57 [rbm]
davb: If you find examples, I'll add to the docs
23:05:13 [davb]
ok. I will let you know.