IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:22 [jim]

jim (~jim@12-233-225-152.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs

00:00:31 [jim]

re

00:00:35 [Simpsophylax]

Hi Jim

00:00:40 [Simpsophylax]

add an ht to the front

00:00:52 [jim]

htre?

00:01:02 [Simpsophylax]

ROFL

00:01:02 [Simpsophylax]

no

00:02:18 [Simpsophylax]

on their site it says Rated up to 1.2Ghz duron and higher

00:03:16 [rbm]

I'm going to visit a neighbor. brb

00:03:28 [Simpsophylax]

ok

00:03:33 [Simpsophylax]

and I'm going to watch the Simpsons

00:03:50 [jim]

don't let them catch you!

00:22:33 [Simpsophylax]

ahhhh crap

00:22:42 [Simpsophylax]

Attack of the Drones is coming out in the middle of may

00:22:47 [Simpsophylax]

I can see the stampedes now

00:30:35 [Simpsophylax]

Simpsophylax is now known as AlmostMondayphyl

00:30:44 [davb]

hi jim

00:30:44 [AlmostMondayphyl]

AlmostMondayphyl is now known as Mondayphylax

00:30:48 [Mondayphylax]

hi dave

00:30:56 [davb]

hi Mondayphylax

00:32:13 [Mondayphylax]

I can't believe it's almost Monday

00:32:24 [Mondayphylax]

is this really what my next 45 years will be like?

00:39:52 [Mondayphylax]

if roberto shows up, tell him I'll be back later

00:57:49 [davb]

argh

00:57:55 [davb]

aolserver 4 fixes nothing.

00:58:01 [Mondayphylax]

nothingggggg

00:58:06 [Mondayphylax]

NOOOOTHHHHHINNGGGGGG!

00:58:29 [davb]

they rewrote all the connection code, but have serious issues with the basic tcl interpreters.

00:59:14 [Mondayphylax]

that's bad

00:59:41 [davb]

annyoing anyway.

00:59:50 [talli]

hey guys look at this job description:

00:59:52 [talli]

The following is desirable a minimum of three years experience in IIS installation, setup and administration, two years experience in programming using XML techniques and one year experience developing Web Services using XML and C-Sharp.

01:00:11 [talli]

one year experience with "C-Sharp"????

01:00:20 [talli]

has the thing even been around for a year?

01:00:21 [davb]

has it even been released yet?

01:00:30 [Mondayphylax]

yeah it's been released

01:00:37 [davb]

thats ok they were saying 5 years Java when it was out for 3.

01:00:46 [talli]

my friend told me that a year after java was released, job ads were asking for 4 years experience

01:00:55 [Mondayphylax]

I think Betas of C# were floating around last summer

01:02:07 [davb]

ok, so now I have to grovel around in the aolserver c code to see how the interpreters are built. because the procs to detect packages are not in there.

01:03:02 [Mondayphylax]

So I kind of solved the no grayscale font problem

01:03:07 [davb]

actually, I could write a C module for aolserver that makes package require work. at least in theory.

01:03:13 [davb]

got a less crappy printer?

01:03:20 [davb]

:)

01:03:52 [davb]

the virtual server stuff in aolserver 4 looks cool though.

01:05:28 [Mondayphylax]

no, I used a different driver

01:05:35 [davb]

cool.

01:06:39 [davb]

or I think I can just patch init.tcl that is called by aoslerver instead of the tcl version.

01:07:06 [davb]

basically the aolserver version does nothing, except create to variables that screws up my code.

01:08:36 [davb]

the weird thing is the package code used to be in aolserver.

01:11:03 [Mondayphylax]

what the hell

01:11:07 [Mondayphylax]

someone took my plates already?

01:11:16 [davb]

i thought you ordered them

01:11:20 [Mondayphylax]

no

01:11:27 [davb]

oh

01:11:28 [Mondayphylax]

my friends suggested I get different one

01:11:30 [Mondayphylax]

"syslogd"

01:11:56 [Mondayphylax]

but I think their servlet is just dead

01:12:01 [davb]

could be.

01:12:11 [Mondayphylax]

It takes quiet a while to look something up and it comes up as plate not avaiable

01:14:49 [talli]

davb: are you saying you are going to learn C and become an AOLserver hacker?>

01:14:58 [davb]

maybe one day.

01:15:00 [talli]

you'll get a lot more pub for that...

01:15:04 [davb]

first I will try the tcl alternative.

01:15:08 [davb]

heh

01:17:06 [talli]

well, if you want a job, i say screw OACS

01:17:11 [talli]

everyone seems to want .net

01:17:38 [rbm]

* rbm is back

01:18:23 [davb]

:)

01:19:14 [davb]

actually what I want to do is learn what is going on so I understand what I am doing, as opposed to clicking on a few buttons.

01:19:40 [Mondayphylax]

yay

01:21:18 [Mondayphylax]

Roberto: this is the heatsinks I have

01:21:31 [Mondayphylax]

Vantec CCK

01:21:33 [Mondayphylax]

or

01:22:23 [davb]

ah.

01:22:35 [davb]

get the quieter one.

01:25:52 [jim]

afa oacs, are people mostly settling on pg-7.1.3?

01:26:35 [jim]

(reason I ask, is I'm about to print reference manuals... wanna know which I should print)

01:27:30 [davb]

jim: it works on 7.2

01:28:12 [jim]

I had 7.2 for awhile (while my system was somewhat unstable)

01:28:31 [jim]

(that was a ram problem; fixed it)

01:28:46 [davb]

ah. but openfts and search I think only work on 7.1

01:30:21 [jim]

ok, then I'm printing 7.1 stuff for now

01:32:06 [jim]

how do you count pages in a .ps?

01:38:46 [rbm]

Mondayphylax: Okay. Err, sounds good.

01:38:46 [davb]

stealing an idea from swhack

01:39:00 [davb]

[[[

01:39:02 [davb]

C# and Common Language Runtime strike me as having hairy models.

01:39:02 [davb]

(They're not functional, but I'm covering the understanding angle.)

01:39:02 [davb]

A practitioner in that environment is not supposed to understand it all.

01:39:02 [davb]

Instead, one is expected to just accept what all the wheels are doing.

01:39:03 [davb]

Environments where practitioners must believe in magic are not okay.

01:39:08 [davb]

]]] - David McCusker

01:39:14 [davb]

that sounds about right to me.

01:39:41 [rbm]

I actually got interested in doing some .NET work, but I can't afford what MS charges to get started

01:40:01 [rbm]

Visual Studio .NET costs $100 for academic edition, which is not so bad, but still.

01:41:35 [rbm]

Mondayphylax: So is this available at newegg?

01:45:39 [davb]

that's the whole thing there isn't it.

01:46:17 [davb]

I have learned more since I started using linux 2 years ago than I did the rest of the time i have been working with computers.

01:47:48 [rbm]

davb: same here

01:48:47 [davb]

but I suppose now, if I was serious, I would buy tools. I pay for graphics tools. but for learning the free stuff is very useful.

01:50:23 [rbm]

you can pay for free (speech) tools.

01:50:39 [davb]

ah true :)

01:51:14 [davb]

I will probably learn C programming from reading AOLserver source.

01:51:29 [rbm]

davb: That's a good source to read.

01:51:41 [rbm]

davb: Grab "The C Programming Language". It's a small book.

01:51:55 [davb]

yeah. i need it.

01:51:55 [rbm]

Wow, rocks!

01:52:17 [rbm]

One guy submitted 4 bug reports against my IRMP3 Debian package, _all_ with patches fixing everything!

01:52:54 [davb]

great.

01:52:57 [davb]

are you in btw?

01:53:04 [Mondayphylax]

in what?

01:53:21 [davb]

Mondayphylax: rbm, debian devel

01:53:33 [Mondayphylax]

oh

01:54:53 [rbm]

davb: Not yet, but I have a package in that is uploaded by another Debian Devel

01:55:01 [davb]

ah. cool.

01:55:03 [rbm]

Crap, I'll have to leave again.

01:55:07 [rbm]

*sighs*

01:55:14 [rbm]

brb

01:59:26 [davb]

ok, i give up.

01:59:49 [davb]

i will need to hack something into aolserver.

02:00:25 [davb]

the tcl environment variables need to be in there. and the unknown etc... procs need to be loaded in the interpreters. I might be a tcl/C fix.

02:01:21 [davb]

here is the problem. when AOLserver creates an interpter it copies the _commands_ from the initial interpeter. but not the variables.

02:01:40 [davb]

so they all get lost.

02:05:45 [davb]

of course tcl_library is ambiguous in aolserver.

02:06:40 [davb]

I am off. bb tomorrow

02:08:12 [rbm]

davb: You should really e-mail the aolserver list about this

02:14:11 [davb]

yeah, but I kinda want to understand exactlly what the problem is first.

02:25:09 [jim]

OK, I want to try putting stuff in the user's workspace

02:58:02 [talli]

hey rbm, how often do you see griznog?

02:58:56 [talli]

i mean john hanks?

02:59:03 [rbm]

talli: Pretty often

02:59:14 [rbm]

He's usually on #linux at fslc.usu.edu

02:59:20 [talli]

ah, ok

02:59:26 [talli]

i'll bug him tomorrow

02:59:28 [rbm]

Phisically I see him quite often too.

02:59:43 [talli]

he said he might be able to come up with a list of exchange features he likes

03:00:34 [talli]

that would be a big help for momentum

03:00:48 [rbm]

griznog is big into exchange. He knows it quite well.

03:00:58 [talli]

i have another friend who has been doing systems architecture for a couple of years

03:01:03 [talli]

he wants to help write design docs

03:01:10 [talli]

how about your friend who is the tech writer?

03:01:23 [rbm]

He's Bob on the aforementioned #linux

03:01:41 [rbm]

Mondayphylax: Still there?

03:01:42 [paje]

i guess there is a package for emacs somewhere and its built into mozilla now.

03:01:48 [rbm]

:-)

03:02:12 [talli]

cool

03:02:34 [talli]

worthless buzzwords: http://www.microsoft.com/exchange/evaluation/features/default.asp

03:10:57 [rbm]

paje: again!

03:10:57 [paje]

* paje spanks talli

03:11:07 [talli]

thanks

03:11:34 [rbm]

talli: BTW, once again, thank you very much for taking me to Boston. It was lots of fun.

03:11:40 [talli]

no prob

03:11:46 [talli]

glad you could make it

03:11:53 [talli]

and sorry you had to stay at the holiday inn :(

03:12:27 [rbm]

that was th toughest part of the trip.

03:16:42 [rbm]

paje: seen Mondayphylax

03:16:42 [paje]

Mondayphylax was last seen on #openacs 1 hours, 23 minutes and 10 seconds ago, saying: oh [Sun Apr 28 19:54:13 2002]

03:18:58 [rbm]

* rbm goes to study for the GRE

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03:20:09 [rzolf]

paje: seen markd2

03:20:10 [paje]

markd2 was last seen on #openacs 2 days, 7 hours, 20 minutes and 44 seconds ago, saying: paje seen rzolf? [Fri Apr 26 14:00:06 2002]

03:24:25 [rzolf]

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04:35:39 [hazmat]

paje: seen rzolf

04:35:39 [paje]

rzolf was last seen on #openacs 1 hours, 15 minutes and 30 seconds ago, saying: paje: seen markd2 [Sun Apr 28 21:20:50 2002]

04:40:35 [rbm]

paje: seen hazmat

04:40:36 [paje]

hazmat was last seen on #openacs 4 minutes and 56 seconds ago, saying: paje: seen rzolf [Sun Apr 28 22:36:20 2002]

04:50:29 [hazmat]

hi rbm

04:53:34 [rbm]

hey

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12:08:57 [Mondayphylax]

hi

12:08:58 [paje]

hey, Mondayphylax

12:09:05 [Mondayphylax]

paje shut up

12:09:05 [paje]

Mondayphylax: what?

12:09:06 [markd2]

morning

12:09:18 [Mondayphylax]

:)

12:17:41 [yzzyx]

morning

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12:43:10 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. This message seems to require broader coverage. We seem to be experiencing a pr0n spambot infestation. Please report any problems to #openprojects. Thanks.

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13:18:04 [davb]

hello

13:18:43 [markd2]

'morning

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13:47:52 [rbm]

morning

13:48:01 [Mondayphylax]

moo

13:50:20 [hazmat]

morning

13:50:36 [hazmat]

does anybody understand the varbit tree encoding scheme?

13:51:28 [hazmat]

i'm wondering how to get all the children of a given node in a single query.. it looks like i can just do a partial match against the node's tree_sortkey?

13:55:01 [rbm]

at some point I understood that, but I probably forgot it now

13:55:13 [rbm]

best thing is to look at Danw's comments on the datamodel

13:57:00 [davb]

its different rbm. DonB changed it around, the queries are slightly changed from Dan's.

13:57:24 [rbm]

right, but that much?

13:57:48 [davb]

i'd have to look. if you look at the CR code, all the examples are int here.

13:58:05 [davb]

We probably could use a concise guide "This query will get all the children" etc...

13:58:42 [Mondayphylax]

so sleepy

13:58:59 [Mondayphylax]

I got summoned for grand jury dudy again

14:02:33 [Mondayphylax]

Roberto, have we figured out a total yet?

14:04:17 [rbm]

Mondayphylax: Yes. $339. I went back to the K7T266 instead of the KT3 because I read reports that the KT3 is unstable with more than one memory stick

14:04:39 [Mondayphylax]

I'm telling you

14:04:45 [Mondayphylax]

just get the Soyo Dragon+

14:04:56 [markd2]

or the Soylent (Green)

14:05:11 [Mondayphylax]

* Mondayphylax thwaps© Mark with a cookie

14:05:22 [markd2]

ouch-yum

14:05:28 [til]

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14:05:47 [Mondayphylax]

Roberto, newegg owes me around that much..LOL

14:06:03 [Mondayphylax]

i'm waiting for them to post it to my credit card though

14:07:37 [Mondayphylax]

Roberto, how much is it with a soyo?

14:07:58 [rbm]

$40 more (the MSI I have is $89. The Soyo $130)

14:08:41 [Mondayphylax]

ok

14:09:05 [Mondayphylax]

so how much do you need?

14:09:29 [rbm]

err

14:09:42 [Mondayphylax]

and why do you insist on choosing things that are NOT in stock?

14:10:09 [rbm]

Oh, anything I chose is out of stock? I didn't even look to be honest.

14:10:26 [Mondayphylax]

The memory and the motherboard

14:11:58 [rbm]

great :(

14:12:09 [Mondayphylax]

Memory go put crucial instead of micron

14:12:16 [Mondayphylax]

Crucial IS micron

14:13:05 [rbm]

indeed

14:13:12 [rbm]

Cool, $5 less

14:14:06 [rbm]

What does it mean for a motherboard to be "oem, barebone"?

14:14:15 [rbm]

It won't come with the manuals and box?

14:14:31 [markd2]

no solder traces

14:14:34 [markd2]

have to add those yourself

14:15:41 [Mondayphylax]

yeah it might not come with a manual or box

14:16:40 [rbm]

well, quality-wise it should be the same right? And I can print the manual off the web I suppose

14:16:45 [Mondayphylax]

bah

14:16:52 [Mondayphylax]

no, get a Retail board

14:17:05 [rbm]

* rbm burned his thumb on the solder last night

14:17:06 [Mondayphylax]

It will be easier to deal with people if there's something wrong

14:19:28 [rbm]

* rbm ponders which grad schools to apply for

14:21:13 [markd2]

CMU, so you can come to pittsburgh and hold a social

14:21:32 [rbm]

(:

14:24:15 [Mondayphylax]

?

14:28:38 [Mondayphylax]

Robertoooooo

14:28:46 [rbm]

yes?

14:28:55 [Mondayphylax]

Quantos dineros tu necesito

14:29:03 [Mondayphylax]

lol

14:29:06 [rbm]

Sorry, I'm trying to get some notes before I go talk to the department head in 30 mins or so

14:29:15 [Mondayphylax]

ah

14:29:22 [Mondayphylax]

yeah that's probably more important :P

14:29:40 [rbm]

Mondayphylax: Well, my answer would be "how much can you part with?"

14:30:01 [Mondayphylax]

tell me how much you can afford first :P

14:30:42 [Mondayphylax]

without having to live on those Cup-O-Noodle things

14:31:20 [rbm]

Honestly, $50. If I could do separate months, then $100 on 2 installments.

14:31:37 [Mondayphylax]

ok, installments work for me too

14:31:40 [rbm]

(now you can stop laughing)

14:31:45 [Mondayphylax]

Why laugh?

14:31:57 [rbm]

$50 is not much.

14:32:03 [Mondayphylax]

So?

14:32:03 [paje]

it has been said that So is going to the play a bit like try before you buy ?

14:32:17 [rbm]

heheh

14:32:24 [Mondayphylax]

* Mondayphylax shakes head

14:32:38 [rbm]

So it's a laughable amount

14:32:47 [Mondayphylax]

not really

14:33:08 [rbm]

Hey, it's 15% of the total :)

14:33:21 [Mondayphylax]

I'll send you a check for 75$ once Newegg credits me

14:33:37 [Mondayphylax]

and I'll send you another 100 once I get paid in 10 days or so

14:34:08 [Mondayphylax]

You take checks, right?

14:34:15 [Mondayphylax]

:P

14:34:35 [rbm]

checks, money order, cod, pay pal :)

14:34:46 [Mondayphylax]

ok

14:34:56 [Mondayphylax]

let's see

14:35:07 [Mondayphylax]

225$ is a start

14:35:13 [Mondayphylax]

:)

14:35:25 [rbm]

indeed

14:35:42 [Mondayphylax]

what was the total with shipping?

14:36:19 [rbm]

don't know. Shipping would probably be $30 or $40 (I think), so $374 is my guess

14:37:14 [Mondayphylax]

You better be getting a retail board!

14:37:31 [rbm]

I am, but it's out of stock on newegg

14:38:10 [Mondayphylax]

ok

14:39:26 [Mondayphylax]

bbiab

14:39:31 [Mondayphylax]

must do some testing on new equipment

14:54:04 [davb]

* davb posts to aolserver list.

14:56:06 [davb]

darn, i should have gotten a demo of dremweaver mx at the show I went to...

14:59:24 [davb]

I think I need to get emacs to post to etp.

14:59:43 [davb]

that way I can write a long story and post it to my web site and use a nice tool.

15:00:48 [talli]

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15:03:43 [rbm]

mx?

15:05:26 [davb]

yeah. macromedia has new versions of eveything now. no more numbers so they use mx.

15:05:49 [davb]

ok. i found xmlrpc.el

15:06:01 [davb]

now I just need a way to suck the text out of the window.

15:06:17 [docwolf]

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15:07:06 [davb]

actually, I can probably skip the xmlrpc stuff, and just do a post.

15:08:02 [davb]

there is already some code to open a wiki page remotely, edit it, and save it back.

15:08:26 [davb]

it just uses GET and PUT.

15:09:04 [rbm]

* rbm heads to campus

15:09:18 [davb]

now all I need it to get AOLserver to do HTTP authentication from the OpenACS user list.

15:11:13 [davb]

basically. these same priciples could be used with webDav and any editor, Word, for example. Tricky part is figuring out how to just send the editable content.

15:15:16 [davb]

ah. I can just send a query parameter: edit-this-page?edit=true or something.

15:17:56 [davb]

I could do work, but thinking up new projects is more fun...

15:22:50 [Mondayphylax]

oh I could go for a nice juicy hamburger with some onions and a nice side of french fries

15:23:12 [davb]

great, bring me back one.

15:23:20 [Mondayphylax]

i'm not going anywhere

15:23:25 [davb]

* davb puts IRC food replicated on his project list

15:23:27 [Mondayphylax]

and I'm not allowed to have fries or hamburgers

15:23:35 [davb]

oh, sorry :(

15:23:40 [Mondayphylax]

:-/

15:23:45 [Mondayphylax]

Well, I can have a hamburger

15:23:50 [Mondayphylax]

it's just all my points for the day

15:23:51 [Mondayphylax]

lol

15:23:57 [davb]

oh, you are on one of those?

15:24:04 [Mondayphylax]

kinda

15:24:05 [Mondayphylax]

:)

15:24:21 [davb]

ah. I should try it. but I justify it by being to busy to care.

15:24:58 [davb]

markd2: you linked to battelground god, but missed shakespeare vs. britney spears!

15:26:35 [markd2]

oh no!

15:26:41 [markd2]

is that on the battlegrond god site?

15:27:14 [davb]

yeah.

15:27:25 [davb]

http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/games.htm

15:27:26 [oacs-chump]

A: http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/games.htm from davb

15:27:40 [davb]

A:|Philosophy Games

15:27:40 [oacs-chump]

titled item A

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15:34:44 [talli]

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15:35:28 [Mondayphylax]

oh chit, everyone hide it's talli

15:35:37 [talli]

yo

15:35:45 [talli]

anyone have any experience building something with new-portal yet?

15:35:57 [davb]

not yet. its on my list :)

15:37:14 [Mondayphylax]

* Mondayphylax tries to figure out what Dave does

15:37:38 [davb]

I add things to my list.

15:37:52 [Mondayphylax]

Do you ever do them?

15:39:06 [davb]

eventually.

15:39:25 [talli]

davb: have you looked at the code?

15:39:29 [talli]

is it reasonable?

15:39:40 [davb]

thing is, i usually only have 1/2 hour or so at a time to work on stuff. so it takes me say, 25 minutes to get going...

15:39:52 [Mondayphylax]

Dave, how do you manage to do things on your list and work too?

15:40:06 [davb]

talli: I looked a little. it seems very nice for building portals. I don't know about the quality of the code, but the apis look good.

15:40:18 [davb]

Mondayphylax: goof off at work

15:40:45 [Mondayphylax]

hmmm

15:40:49 [Mondayphylax]

I tried that

15:40:57 [Mondayphylax]

they told me they won't hire me full time if I keep goofing off

15:41:28 [talli]

then why are you here?

15:42:22 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

15:42:23 [davb]

talli: have you ever done any stuff for libraries?

15:42:34 [talli]

no, not yet

15:42:42 [talli]

it would be interseting to do, though

15:42:59 [Mondayphylax]

talli because i need money and "experience"

15:43:18 [talli]

no, i mean why are you in the channel?

15:43:27 [Mondayphylax]

a "Full time intern for one year at Cablevision" looks a ...

15:43:31 [davb]

talli: ok. just wondering. I am reading some librarian's weblogs and the ideas sound pretty cool.

15:43:38 [talli]

cool

15:43:48 [Mondayphylax]

talli, I don't know...

15:44:01 [Mondayphylax]

I find these discussions more interesting at times than my work?

15:44:16 [Mondayphylax]

plus, they keep me from going insane

15:44:27 [davb]

One of these days, I might see if my local library wants to redo their site.

15:44:57 [talli]

well, then you'll probably not get hired fulltime

15:45:03 [davb]

allso, their firewall doesn't block IRC ports :)

15:45:49 [Mondayphylax]

Who doesn't block IRC ports?

15:47:17 [davb]

your job.

15:47:43 [Mondayphylax]

they don't block many things

15:47:46 [davb]

it was supposed to be a joke :)

15:48:02 [Mondayphylax]

a lot of people use AIM, Yahoo! or MSN around here

15:48:11 [Mondayphylax]

Not just me :)

15:48:31 [davb]

I am sure.

15:48:57 [davb]

my office is the same way.

15:49:12 [Mondayphylax]

hehe

15:49:22 [Mondayphylax]

It's bad though

15:49:46 [Mondayphylax]

If it was up to me I'd firewall those ports off and leave just HTTP

15:49:49 [davb]

we are getting quite a few of the latest virus.

15:49:57 [Mondayphylax]

and ssh

15:50:02 [Mondayphylax]

but that's no good

15:50:08 [Mondayphylax]

I just ssh into my box in the first place

15:50:09 [Mondayphylax]

LOL

15:50:15 [davb]

right.

15:50:35 [davb]

I should probably do that instead of mIRC

15:50:54 [davb]

especially because mIRC sucks. but I couldn't get the hang of windows in EPIC

15:51:23 [Mondayphylax]

BitchX rocks :)

15:53:37 [Mondayphylax]

I usually stay later anyway to make up for the time I slack off

15:55:06 [Mondayphylax]

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,3157213~root=forsale~mode=flat

15:55:07 [oacs-chump]

B: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,3157213~root=forsale~mode=flat from Mondayphylax

15:55:14 [Mondayphylax]

B:| For Roberto?

15:55:14 [oacs-chump]

titled item B

15:55:23 [Mondayphylax]

B: He should see if he could use that

15:55:23 [oacs-chump]

added comment B1

15:55:34 [talli]

davb: how much work do you think it would take to build acs-service-contract stuff for new-portals and bboards?

15:55:41 [talli]

how about new-portal and news?

15:55:46 [talli]

new-portal and etp?

15:56:42 [davb]

talli: bboard should be easy. sloan bboad is already done.

15:56:48 [talli]

ah, right

15:56:49 [davb]

new is already done too.

15:56:53 [davb]

news that is.

15:56:58 [talli]

nice

15:56:59 [davb]

etp is one my list :)

16:02:29 [denshi]

hello, terrors of the internet.

16:03:32 [talli]

hey denshi

16:08:23 [Mondayphylax]

I prefer to be called slacker not terror of the internot

16:08:31 [Mondayphylax]

Mondayphylax is now known as syslogd

16:09:34 [syslogd]

i reserved my new and improved plates this morning

16:09:39 [davb]

cool.

16:09:42 [syslogd]

after LazyGeek I'm going to syslogd

16:09:51 [davb]

probably they restarted the server when they got there this morning.

16:09:56 [syslogd]

Probably

16:10:04 [syslogd]

Damn microsoft architecture!

16:10:07 [davb]

heh

16:10:21 [davb]

combined with Java.

16:22:12 [markd2]

markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-053.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

16:22:19 [syslogd]

i should really get a CCNA certification

16:22:33 [syslogd]

* syslogd sticks a cookie into marks mouth

16:22:40 [davb]

ick

16:22:46 [davb]

not if you have to pay for it.

16:22:53 [syslogd]

it's not expensive

16:23:01 [syslogd]

you're thinking of the courses

16:23:04 [davb]

which is that anyway?

16:23:08 [davb]

oh right.

16:23:16 [markd2]

mmm.. cookies

16:23:21 [syslogd]

but you don't have to take the course to take the test

16:23:24 [markd2]

yeah. certification courses fr anything are megabucks

16:23:34 [markd2]

oracle dba courses are like $5000 each (for 5 test)

16:23:40 [markd2]

books worked well for me :-)

16:23:58 [davb]

New Horizons(ceritfication training place) is funny. They are so super friendly to everyone.

16:24:18 [davb]

Mostly becuase they finance these people's courses and they are in for thousands of dollars.

16:24:27 [davb]

it's scary.

16:24:54 [syslogd]

that's what I need to do

16:25:00 [syslogd]

read lots of books and pass some tests

16:25:00 [davb]

train people?

16:25:17 [markd2]

throw people in front of trains?

16:25:29 [markd2]

there's some remnants of aD I'd love for you to do that to

16:25:35 [davb]

I am reading lots of books (well it's on my list) so I can get a BS in CS.

16:26:07 [markd2]

shame that piece of paper is necessary. you code better than some MIT grads I've worked with

16:26:59 [syslogd]

hmmm

16:27:10 [syslogd]

what do you need to become an accredited university?

16:27:20 [markd2]

accrediation :-)

16:27:21 [syslogd]

besides being started in the 1800's

16:27:31 [syslogd]

* syslogd thwaps© markd with a cookie

16:27:42 [markd2]

more cookies!

16:27:56 [davb]

markd2: its not really the paper I am after.

16:28:35 [davb]

I just want someone to help me learn all the little things I am missing. So I can understand how everything works.

16:29:02 [davb]

Luckily I can actually get credit for writing software when I am going to school.

16:30:26 [davb]

If I could be a mentor for free, I probably wouldn't need the school.

16:30:42 [davb]

that is actually also on my list. especially after MIT gets their CS stuff in open courseware.

16:30:44 [syslogd]

be a mentor or have a mentor?

16:30:51 [davb]

Open Source mentors.

16:30:55 [syslogd]

?

16:30:57 [davb]

by then I hopefully can be one.

16:31:10 [syslogd]

You can mentor me :P

16:31:12 [davb]

Setting up people to volunteer to mentor students.

16:31:21 [davb]

sd then can learn programming.

16:31:23 [markd2]

awesome

16:31:43 [davb]

that is a little way down the road, but I think it would be really cool.

16:32:01 [davb]

I am not sure where I will get the people to help out for free :)

16:32:18 [davb]

besides IRC that is.

16:33:05 [davb]

davb is now known as davb-lunch

16:33:12 [syslogd]

mmm...lunch

16:36:34 [denshi]

what's davb talking about on OSS mentors?

16:37:14 [denshi]

is there some kind of semi-formal org going on that, or just the informal norm?

16:37:44 [davb-lunch]

denshi: (i didn't leave yet). I just made it up.

16:38:04 [denshi]

make it happen.

16:38:07 [davb-lunch]

I mean, sure its going on now. My idea it to pair up a skilled hacker with a new hacker.

16:38:30 [syslogd]

* syslogd goes to lunch

16:38:50 [davb-lunch]

but more towards teaching a more complete software engineering/cs thing.

16:39:09 [davb-lunch]

what OpenSource needs is more people who can build and who understand complex systems.

16:39:36 [davb-lunch]

that is what I need to learn anyway :)

16:41:39 [denshi]

just the same, I don't think it would ever work.

16:41:51 [denshi]

not in OSS, at least.

16:44:28 [markd2]

interesting. why not?

16:44:43 [talli]

makes sense to me

16:44:55 [talli]

i bet it would be really cool to set this up in the OACS community

16:45:03 [talli]

it would be a great way of introducing new people to the community

16:45:08 [talli]

and for people to learn how to use the system

16:45:29 [talli]

of course, we would have to separate the freaks from others

16:45:42 [talli]

like markd2 + chump

16:45:45 [talli]

ugh

16:45:49 [talli]

imagine the wars there

16:46:10 [talli]

http://uprightcitizens.org/18/index.html

16:46:11 [oacs-chump]

C: http://uprightcitizens.org/18/index.html from talli

16:46:12 [markd2]

muahahahahaha

16:46:21 [talli]

C: May I Help You Dumbass?

16:46:21 [oacs-chump]

added comment C1

16:46:42 [talli]

C: "People trying to get internet tech-support often "misdial" the phone number, and get me. So I try to help. This is what happens."

16:46:42 [oacs-chump]

added comment C2

16:47:47 [denshi]

markd2 & co: it wouldn't work b/c so there are so many who can't tell good code from bad

16:48:00 [denshi]

like mySQL weenies, for instance.

16:48:35 [talli]

denshi: don't know what that matters

16:48:47 [talli]

mysql is a great intro, it's just not the end all be all

16:48:53 [denshi]

so people who could would seek out those who *can* code, and form the relationship themselves, but a organized assignment of people would just fail miserably.

16:49:08 [talli]

dunno about that

16:49:27 [denshi]

like "you say you're an experienced hacker, but I can't understand your code, so I think you suck. and I know this b/c I've been coding for a month."

16:49:54 [markd2]

davb could write the Online Hacker Rating Aystem

16:49:54 [talli]

like davb-lunch's idea

16:49:56 [markd2]

S/A/S

16:50:02 [talli]

i think we should implement it in the oacs community

16:50:33 [denshi]

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-893463.html?tag=fd_top

16:50:33 [oacs-chump]

D: http://news.com.com/2100-1040-893463.html?tag=fd_top from denshi

16:50:41 [talli]

it would be a great way for people to learn from one another

16:51:00 [denshi]

D: Gateway thinking of eating the music retail market, just because they can.

16:51:01 [oacs-chump]

added comment D1

16:52:22 [denshi]

back on mentoring, sure, I love the idea, but I'm not sure how well it would work.

16:52:38 [denshi]

there's lots of teaching in OACS, in fact, more than in any OSS project I've ever seen.

16:53:05 [talli]

there is

16:53:08 [talli]

that's what's so nice about it

16:53:16 [talli]

but there's also a lot of slogging through code

16:53:17 [denshi]

but that's just asyncronous bboard "hey wtf is this?" and the peanut gallery jumps in on it. anyone can help anyone else.

16:53:19 [talli]

the bboards are great

16:53:35 [denshi]

I don't see how the one-on-one is an improvement.

16:53:48 [talli]

it would be great for younger kids

16:53:56 [talli]

i have a friend who is very into homeschooling

16:54:29 [denshi]

in fact, I see it as a comparative lose, since with bboard & co, you get to see the multiple solutions and disagreements with the hackers. you learn more about the problem like that.

16:54:38 [talli]

i bet if he could come and sign up a 13-15 yo and have a community that would be willing to mentor the kid, from both a one-one and one-many perspective, it would be great

16:55:32 [denshi]

yeah, homeschooling is really the only good schooling left in america.

16:56:00 [talli]

well, one of our clients is the Hotchkiss School

16:56:32 [talli]

they have better facilities than Tufts University has

16:58:21 [davb-lunch]

ack, what did I start...

16:58:26 [davb-lunch]

* davb-lunch reads the backlog

16:58:28 [davb-lunch]

davb-lunch is now known as davb

16:58:31 [talli]

davb-lunch: i think this is a great idae

17:00:53 [davb]

I guess I'll have to develop my thoughts a little more. Basically I want to recreate empire state college for free.

17:01:31 [davb]

denshi is right though, there would be a loss is the interaction is just between two people. the public stuff is more valuable because it's public.

17:02:09 [davb]

So maybe the mentor doesn't answer all the questions, just points you in the right direction.

17:03:10 [davb]

Maybe a web page is all you need.

17:03:35 [davb]

after I start school, I'll let you know which approach is more effective.

17:06:23 [talli]

all you need is about 1 hour per week

17:06:25 [talli]

at least for oacs

17:06:40 [talli]

for a CS degree, that's something else

17:07:45 [davb]

right. learning web/db hacking is one thing. I want to understand the systems underneath. why and how everything works (or doesn't) together.

17:09:13 [talli]

davb: would you be interested in mentoring a 12 yo about web/db hacking?

17:10:18 [Gary]

Gary (~chatzilla@archive.jsoft.com) has joined #openacs

17:10:42 [davb]

talli: interested, sure. have time, not right now.

17:10:48 [denshi]

talli: only if it's aaronsw ver. 2.

17:10:53 [davb]

that is the key.

17:11:18 [davb]

I like this:

17:11:20 [davb]

[[[

17:11:32 [davb]

<AaronSw> PaulG: "Design by comittee is bad .... because risk is proportional to reward. If you design something great you need to make shocking risks... comitees won't do that"

17:11:32 [davb]

<AaronSw> He suggests doing max(comitte-members) rather than avg(comittee-members)

17:11:33 [talli]

hey Gary

17:11:34 [davb]

]]]

17:11:44 [Gary]

howdy

17:11:44 [paje]

hey, Gary

17:12:09 [davb]

* davb finds another simple task that is _impossible_ in MS Access

17:12:19 [markd2]

wow

17:12:31 [Gary]

davb - being productive or a specific task :-)

17:12:36 [davb]

specific.

17:12:41 [talli]

davb: Gary mentors kids in things like robotics and programming

17:12:49 [davb]

cool.

17:12:54 [talli]

he's the homeschooling guy

17:13:16 [davb]

that is another thing I am interested in :)

17:13:24 [Gary]

I'm interested in how to get 12 year olds 'productive'

17:13:35 [Gary]

!

17:13:48 [davb]

That might be tricky.

17:13:50 [talli]

davb: for your kids?

17:14:14 [talli]

Gary: cut off their hormone making parts

17:14:17 [davb]

talli: kind of. I am more of a unschooling mindset, than homeschooling.

17:14:42 [Gary]

unschooling is a branch of homeschooling

17:14:51 [talli]

careful saying these things around Gary. he might recruit you to his "cult" ;)

17:14:52 [Gary]

don't confuse homeschooling with school in a box

17:15:05 [davb]

ok. i won't :)

17:15:35 [davb]

I am just interested in a "learning by doing stuff" method.

17:15:55 [davb]

I think I'll write a book, and patent that :)

17:16:13 [Gary]

we are working on a lot of that

17:16:22 [talli]

that's a good idea. i don't think anyone has written a "book" before

17:16:42 [talli]

anyway, i'll come up with some ideas about mentoring and the OACS community and post it to the boards this afternoon

17:16:50 [talli]

with your permission, davb.

17:17:10 [Gary]

can you give a summary?

17:17:15 [talli]

sure

17:17:20 [Gary]

here

17:17:22 [Gary]

now

17:17:25 [davb]

sure. just expect a, noone has time for this stuff response. we need to test the code and make a release :)

17:17:58 [talli]

from davb's idea was that it would be nice to have help when entering into something as free-form and nebulous as open source software.

17:18:19 [talli]

his idea is to have something similar to Emprie State College, which is a mentor-based degree program

17:18:32 [talli]

i thought the OACS community would be a good test case

17:18:42 [talli]

it would be a low-level mentoring program, like 1-hour per week

17:19:24 [talli]

where a mentor and mentee could meet on IM or IRC and chat about the code the mentee has written, the problems she has come across, and what they should agree to try and achiee by the next week

17:19:40 [talli]

this would help lower the barrier to entry of the community

17:20:05 [Gary]

part of a good idea

17:20:08 [talli]

and rather than have a lot of people posting questions that have been previously answered, someone can discuss it directly with a programmer

17:20:26 [davb]

talli: one little snag. :) maybe we can get some human readable documentation first.

17:20:31 [talli]

(also, it's good pub for the oacs community)

17:20:50 [talli]

that's what the mentee's are for!

17:20:57 [markd2]

save the manatees!

17:21:07 [talli]

especially the 12 year olds who need assignments and learn to write essays!

17:21:12 [talli]

how's that sound, Gary ;)

17:21:38 [Gary]

you are probably ruffling some feathers in the unschooling community

17:21:43 [talli]

haha

17:21:53 [talli]

writing is critical!

17:22:00 [Gary]

parts have the old - we need grades and testing feel

17:22:05 [Gary]

but the idea is good

17:22:12 [Gary]

we are trying something similar

17:22:16 [talli]

well, whatever.

17:22:17 [paje]

somebody said whatever was in unstable :)

17:22:22 [talli]

i'm not an implementation guy

17:22:23 [Gary]

12 year olds and their families

17:23:14 [Gary]

we want to be the 'follow up place' - the mentor that can help once they get going

17:24:31 [denshi]

hey, davb, how much can you describe of Empire State College?

17:25:12 [davb]

denshi: most of it. Basically, they give you credit for what you have learned. not what you have done.

17:25:30 [denshi]

and how do they gauge that?

17:25:38 [davb]

ah. experts.

17:25:54 [davb]

they have one on staff, or hire one to analyze your portfolio.

17:26:10 [davb]

so basically, if you can convince an expert that you have learned it, they give you credit.

17:26:50 [davb]

also: after that, you design your degree program with mentor amd write up learning contracts. these state what you plan to learn and how you will go about it.

17:26:56 [davb]

then you go and do it.

17:31:19 [denshi]

re: the expert, that sounds like a good place for little Kaiser Sozes.

17:32:24 [Gary]

davb is it http://www.esc.edu/

17:33:16 [davb]

yes.

17:33:22 [davb]

heh

17:34:22 [Gary]

getting a degree by mentoring, mentoring developers

17:34:27 [Gary]

that's two different things

17:34:34 [Gary]

but can use the same technologuy

17:34:50 [davb]

Gary: yes.

17:34:55 [Gary]

what do you think openACS brings to the table?

17:36:48 [denshi]

tcl, and profanity. oh, and goats, and a pants-optional lifestyle.

17:37:11 [docwolf]

docwolf has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))

17:37:17 [Gary]

:-)

17:37:52 [Gary]

denshi - don't you ahve to drag the goats to the table, and trying to put pants on them does cause profanity...

17:38:05 [Gary]

even if you tickle them

17:38:38 [davb]

Gary, openacs has basic collaboration tools. I think talli was more interested in using the community that already exists at openacs.org as a test.

17:38:52 [talli]

yes, that's true

17:39:00 [talli]

doesn't really matter what the application toolset is

17:39:04 [Gary]

I'm interested in finding out more what openACS can do for collaboration

17:39:18 [Gary]

have a homeschool organization that wants to upgrade

17:39:32 [Gary]

they have a web site with Front Page and use Access right now :-)

17:40:02 [talli]

Gary: what are your requirements?

17:40:18 [Gary]

finding out what openACS offers

17:40:19 [talli]

we can give you all sorts of buzzowrds, but you've been around long enough to know the bullshit

17:40:32 [Gary]

I want some shopping cart store stuff

17:40:44 [Gary]

and lots of support for collaboration

17:40:47 [Gary]

mailing lists

17:40:48 [paje]

mailing lists are too hidden

17:40:51 [Gary]

and boards

17:41:04 [Gary]

paje ?

17:41:04 [paje]

Gary?

17:41:11 [Gary]

:-)

17:41:22 [Gary]

paje - can you say more

17:41:23 [paje]

Gary: huh?

17:41:39 [Gary]

and the stuff needs to be easy to update

17:41:56 [talli]

paje you little bastard!

17:41:56 [paje]

talli: sorry...

17:41:57 [davb]

Gary, most of that is in there.

17:42:03 [Gary]

and can get the updates to the web site quickly

17:42:21 [Gary]

talli - I'm used to dealing with that

17:43:09 [davb]

ETP (edit-this-page) allows an easy way to add and edit pages, you can set it up so many people can edit a page. bboards - only one way mail support so far. comments.

17:43:58 [Gary]

what about store front stuff?

17:44:40 [davb]

There is an ecommerce package. they are working on hooking it up to a couple different payment gateways. when its done, it will be "easy" to hook up additional payment systems.

17:44:42 [denshi]

currently pretty ugly, but the oacs core data model makes possible a pretty nice system for collaboration.

17:45:22 [davb]

denshi is right. the best part is the core data model. the applications all need a little work.

17:45:24 [Gary]

how fine grained is the security

17:45:28 [denshi]

the real strength of oacs is that everything ties back into the user/group code, so assigning collaboration roles is pretty trivial.

17:45:40 [Gary]

can you collaborate with security 'stuff'

17:45:43 [syslogd]

paje seen davb

17:45:43 [paje]

davb was last seen on #openacs 22 seconds ago, saying: denshi is right. the best part is the core data model. the applications all need a little work. [Mon Apr 29 11:46:02 2002]

17:45:55 [syslogd]

* syslogd returns from lunch

17:46:28 [denshi]

anyone remember where the 'oacs security model tediously explained' paper is?

17:48:02 [syslogd]

that one?

17:48:14 [davb]

that's it.

17:48:21 [denshi]

Gary, basically every table that you want to tie into the security 'stuff' keeps a foreign key to the acs_objects table

17:49:08 [Gary]

great

17:49:12 [denshi]

on the side of that, there are a few other tables that run what is basically an Access Control List system, but with shorthands for hierarchical permissions assignment.

17:49:27 [denshi]

so it's faster

17:49:29 [Gary]

I'll try to remember to look when I have time to log in to another place

17:50:55 [Gary]

so can a discussion board have 'security' so some members can post, some read, and some not get on?

17:51:15 [Gary]

* Gary wonders if I should find out what a discussion board is

17:51:48 [denshi]

precisely.

17:51:59 [Gary]

good

17:52:07 [denshi]

and that granularity can extend all the way down to individual messages.

17:52:39 [Gary]

I 'saw' some of what talli's folks did with openACS and had the feel it may be useful for some of the people I may work with

17:53:07 [Gary]

the folks I talked with over the weekend are just starting to go for the next go around.

17:53:12 [Gary]

they have a web site

17:53:21 [Gary]

but are starting to do more

17:53:38 [Gary]

they have new requirements for members

17:53:49 [Gary]

the usual - this member can do this

17:54:14 [Gary]

and may need to validate that someone is a member for a third party

17:54:27 [Gary]

they need various kinds of communication

17:54:47 [Gary]

web info, message board kinds of stuff and email

17:55:05 [Gary]

and mostly they need to think where they want to go today

17:55:07 [Gary]

:-)

17:56:11 [davb]

Right now, OpenACS, is not a user configurable system out-of-the-box.

17:56:27 [davb]

unless you don't mind getting your hands dirty.

17:56:43 [davb]

Is that a fair assessment?

17:59:01 [denshi]

i hate that metaphor.

17:59:18 [markd2]

dirty hands?

18:00:02 [davb]

There is no "click here and everything will be ok" interface to customize openacs.

18:00:03 [denshi]

the implication that anyone, anywhere, has clean hands.

18:00:13 [davb]

ok.

18:00:27 [davb]

how about without crawling under the hood?

18:00:31 [denshi]

we're filthy up to our shoulders. maybe we need a new metaphor to describe involvement with innards.

18:00:39 [denshi]

sure davb, that sounds alright.

18:00:50 [davb]

and actually makes more sense i think.

18:01:11 [Gary]

:-)

18:01:20 [davb]

I totally depise MS Access.

18:01:33 [davb]

If you want formatted text in a report. you HAVE to link to a word document.

18:01:40 [Gary]

the folks I'm going to be working with tend to get overloaded with the technology

18:02:13 [davb]

Gary, so someone would need to set it up for them?

18:02:26 [Gary]

I want to mentor enough of the homeschool kids to ease the 'pain' when homeschoolers try technology that's a bit tough :-)

18:02:30 [Gary]

yes

18:02:35 [Gary]

and remember

18:03:26 [Gary]

characteristics of homeschoolers are "hard to work with", "hard to get requirements", "little money"

18:03:33 [Gary]

great user base!!!

18:03:34 [Gary]

:-)

18:03:36 [davb]

OpenACS is a toolkit to build web based applications. So you definitely need a mechanic to get it going.

18:03:40 [denshi]

on the overloaded with technology front, I found some funny here:

18:03:42 [denshi]

http://xp.c2.com/SystemMetaphor.html

18:03:42 [oacs-chump]

E: http://xp.c2.com/SystemMetaphor.html from denshi

18:03:57 [davb]

hmmm. sounds familiar. I am working in state government.

18:04:01 [denshi]

E: example as to why the "OO is Life" crowd don't do anything.

18:04:01 [oacs-chump]

added comment E1

18:04:19 [denshi]

E: before they can code, they have to reinvent the English language.

18:04:19 [oacs-chump]

added comment E2

18:04:57 [davb]

can't they just read SICP?

18:05:19 [davb]

We have been notified that the arbitration agreement between the above captioned parties provides for arbitration under the Voluntary Grievance Arbitration Rules of Procedure of the Public Employment Relations Board.

18:05:20 [davb]

Pursuant to those Rules, we submit below a list of seven arbitrators. Each party shall have ten (10) days from date of this letter to select, rank and return their selections to the Director of Conciliation. A party shall independently STRIKE NO MORE THAN THREE (3) NAMES from the panel list and indicate a preference among those names remaining by ranking them 1, 2, 3, 4, and, if appropriate, 5, 6, and 7.

18:05:20 [davb]

Upon timely receipt of each party's selection and consistent with their selected orders of preference, the Director of Conciliation shall designate the arbitrator. If a party fails to return its selections within the time limit specified, all names submitted on this panel list shall be deemed acceptable to such party and the designation of the arbitrator shall be made according to the

18:05:23 [davb]

preference of the party whose selections have been timely received. It is understood that the cost of such arbitration shall be borne completely by the parties.

18:05:26 [davb]

Please note that each party must forward a fifty dollar ($50.00) administrative fee per case, made payable to the State of New York to PERB's Office of Executive Director, as per the instructions on the attached billing invoice. Please note that pursuant to Chapter 55 of the Laws of 1992, the fee

18:05:30 [davb]

may be paid without penalty within 30 days of the date of this billing invoice.

18:05:32 [davb]

argh

18:05:34 [davb]

I despise windows

18:05:36 [davb]

sorry about that

18:05:49 [Gary]

i feel your pain

18:06:00 [Gary]

and see it is from several sources :-)

18:06:00 [denshi]

dude, you need to get your cut-buffers under control.

18:06:56 [davb]

Switching between two different CUT mechanisms is a big pain.

18:07:24 [davb]

that seems to be my "thing" pasting in the wrong stuff.

18:07:34 [denshi]

denshi is now known as denshi-lunch

18:08:51 [Gary]

gotta go - thanks for the conversation - I'll pass on abut openACS

18:09:08 [davb]

Sure. thank you.

18:09:22 [Gary]

Gary has left #openacs

18:36:06 [denshi-lunch]

denshi-lunch is now known as denshi

18:54:21 [syslogd]

lol

18:54:35 [syslogd]

someone in switzerland started an online store for cigarettes

18:57:28 [davb]

Unless they lie on the packages, the receiver will still have to pay all the taxes when they get them.

18:59:00 [syslogd]

:)

19:11:07 [syslogd]

hmmm

19:11:20 [syslogd]

They're saying my returned power supply is an Antec

19:11:25 [syslogd]

but it wasn't

19:17:39 [syslogd]

cool, maybe they will give me 65$ credit instead of 39

20:05:27 [syslogd]

paje seen rbm

20:05:28 [paje]

rbm was last seen on #openacs 4 hours, 56 minutes and 23 seconds ago, saying: heads to campus [Mon Apr 29 09:09:45 2002]

20:06:46 [syslogd]

paje seen paje_going_to_the_bathroom

20:06:46 [paje]

I haven't seen 'paje_going_to_the_bathroom', syslogd

20:09:09 [denshi]

denshi has quit ()

20:18:01 [syslogd]

lol

20:18:04 [syslogd]

that's too funny

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20:30:33 [davb]

* davb saves the day!

20:30:45 [davb]

time to go.

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21:05:54 [lethedrinker]

hello

21:06:15 [lethedrinker]

paje: seen *

21:06:15 [paje]

I haven't seen '*', lethedrinker

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23:04:08 [ChanServ]

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23:07:56 [irc.openprojects.net]

Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: oacs-logger (Killed (pratchett.openprojects.net (devlin.openprojects.net <- carter.openprojects.net))))

23:10:32 [oacs-logger]

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23:10:32 [carter.openprojects.net]

topic is: OpenACS | Free Web Toolkit | Testers Needed: http://213.107.207.131:8000

23:10:32 [carter.openprojects.net]

Users on #openacs: oacs-logger paje lethedrinker talli abbaJ djg jim hazmat shagster syslogd rbm oacs-chump

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[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

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23:54:54 [syslogd]

hi ho hi ho

23:55:28 [syslogd]

paje seen rbm

23:55:29 [paje]

rbm was last seen on #openacs 8 hours, 46 minutes and 25 seconds ago, saying: heads to campus [Mon Apr 29 09:09:45 2002]

23:56:18 [syslogd]

paje seen davb

23:56:18 [paje]

davb was last seen on #openacs 3 hours, 25 minutes and 33 seconds ago, saying: time to go. [Mon Apr 29 14:31:26 2002]

23:56:23 [syslogd]

paje seen markd2

23:56:24 [paje]

markd2 was last seen on #openacs 5 hours, 57 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: dirty hands? [Mon Apr 29 11:59:59 2002]

23:58:11 [rbm]

oom

23:58:17 [syslogd]

moo

23:58:30 [rbm]

is syslod == psyche?

23:58:43 [syslogd]

:)

23:58:45 [syslogd]

* syslogd nods

23:59:04 [rbm]

:)

23:59:20 [syslogd]

i think I'll keep Syslogd since my plates will say that in a month or so