00:01:23 vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:14:56 yzzyx (~saras@213-48-250-232.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs 00:15:25 yzzyx has left #openacs 00:39:51 rzolf (~rolf@badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs 00:43:16 ms (~chatzilla@steigman.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 00:43:37 waht. 00:43:38 what. 00:44:07 hey rzolf 00:44:29 vinod (~vinod@216-164-247-119.s2849.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 00:44:33 what's going on. 00:44:34 paje, seen davb ? 00:44:34 davb was last seen on #openacs 53 minutes and 23 seconds ago, saying: sf->oracle that is [Thu Apr 25 17:51:51 2002] 00:44:39 ah, ok 00:44:42 paje, seen denshi ? 00:44:43 denshi was last seen on #openacs 31 minutes and 48 seconds ago, saying: # is it wrong to spend more on scotch than you do on your car? [Thu Apr 25 18:13:35 2002] 00:44:49 hey vinod 00:44:52 haha. what on earth. 00:44:56 hey talli 00:45:03 howdy rzolf 00:45:08 hello vinod. 00:45:34 what did you expect. 00:46:00 talli: sorry to have missed out on that. had to make some phone calls 00:46:30 hi 00:46:31 hey, davb 00:46:44 enterprise software...the most interesting part about it...is "money" 00:47:09 denshi: thats the turn them upside down until all the money falls out model 00:48:32 is it really competing. if nobody is making money? 00:48:34 oops. 00:48:42 oh, good point. 00:48:49 sorry. :-( 00:48:52 rzolf: exacto 00:49:30 i'm trying to get up the nerve to drive real fast through miami, then slam into a concrete wall...like in an episode of miami vice that i once saw. 00:49:41 however. I drive a ford escort wagon. 00:49:53 rzolf: are things really getting that slow down there? 00:50:03 no, the doc.project is great. 00:50:13 i mean, announcing your suicide in a techie IRC channel??? 00:50:16 however i just read that a skateboard friend of mine makes $297,000 a year. 00:50:22 holy christ 00:50:24 skateboarding. 00:50:29 and he's not even one of the good ones. 00:50:43 and the fat guy that photographs him. makes over $100 grand. 00:50:46 excellent. my 3 year old wants to learn to skateboard. I am all set. 00:50:48 my friend's husband is the editor of SLAP 00:50:59 thanks for convincing me to give up skateboarding and go to college, dad. 00:51:05 haha 00:51:15 they have all sorts of 25 yo millionaire friends who only skateboard 00:51:19 yeah 00:51:20 and "deisgn skate clothes" 00:51:36 maybe we should start financing skateboarding lessons for davb's kid 00:51:48 see. i thought those guys were making like... $80K a year, and "living large" because previously they were making $800 a year. 00:51:49 invest in little davb 00:52:00 i didn't realize that I was an order of magnitude off. 00:52:03 do they "keep it real" like vinod? 00:52:36 * vinod keeps it integer 00:52:49 rzolf: don't worry. how long can you skate for? until you're 30 and your marrow has dried out? 00:53:06 you can code *forever* 00:53:13 is that what you wanted to hear? 00:53:15 ahah. 00:53:42 see i think my ford escort is so bad even if I fall asleep in it in the garage, nothing is going to happen. 00:53:57 i'll wake up....the server will be paging me. 00:54:05 that's because geckos absorb carbon monoxide 00:54:25 man, they are putting everything into that browser 00:54:30 haha 00:54:32 haha 00:54:34 erf. 00:55:01 i think rzolf was offended by your nerd joke, davb 00:55:01 do you want to hear about my 2nd cousin. 00:55:17 i better use the "#" operator for this one. 00:55:23 rzolf: i think you'll have to go elsewhere to find sympathy for your plight 00:55:30 yeah. 00:55:37 you think I'm kidding. http://www.mozdev.org/CO 00:55:42 but it is an interesting story. 00:55:44 or at least if you don't like bad geek puns 00:56:05 interesting to learn about how people make a lot of money doing completely bizarre thigns. 00:56:25 how's your energy drink coming along? 00:56:32 i better get back on that. 00:56:39 gitdown marketing + wolf bioscience R&D can't lose 00:56:43 haha. 00:56:47 good point. 00:57:16 see, life was looking up 00:57:22 hey. I can almost debug the package require bug in aolserver with tclpro. 00:57:32 i had a focus for my LLC 00:57:34 but I haven't figured out how to activate tcl pages. 00:57:37 *almost*? 00:57:54 i was all set to improve my cashflow to decent levels. 00:57:57 davb: any chance you're documenting this stuff? it would be great to add to teh OACS docs... 00:57:58 through rewarding work. 00:58:12 talli: never thought of that :) 00:58:13 rzolf: what kind of stuff? 00:58:15 then i find out this guy i know made $300K skateboarding. 00:58:29 how much does Tony Hawk make? 00:58:45 $40M a year. 00:58:53 christ almighty 00:59:01 people really like that playstation game, huh? 00:59:02 you sure? 00:59:04 ah 00:59:15 yes i have many contacts in the skateboard industry. 00:59:20 med school was a waste of time 00:59:31 ack. 00:59:39 rzolf: ever hear of Mark Whiteley? 00:59:44 he's the editor of SLAP 00:59:46 or Slap 00:59:47 i keep thinking med school would be fun. but i think if I had $40M, i wouldn't care anymore. 00:59:53 however you spell it 00:59:58 haha 00:59:59 no i don't know who that is. 01:00:03 that's $40M per annum 01:00:25 take that, Albert Schweitzer 01:00:33 SLAP is ok. 01:00:37 i knew some girl that worked there. 01:00:56 my friend keeps telling me that they try to have "real" articles in there 01:01:28 i never read it, but i have a feeling that there is no overlap between those that read the NY Review of Books and those that know what an olley is 01:01:39 skateboard magazines are definitely a money making venture...because typically the ads are better than the actual content...so there is no problem just filling every other page with an ad. 01:01:55 w 01:01:55 i read the NY review of books. 01:01:57 ack 01:02:01 syn 01:02:08 actually 01:02:08 i think actually is there something to automate this a bit more? 01:02:11 I got it backwards 01:02:23 syn-->syn ack --> ack 01:02:29 * Thursdayphylax is minimalizing 01:02:46 rzolf: does that mean you take issue with my denigration of SLAP? 01:02:53 * davb searches the aolserver list of tclpro hints 01:02:59 no, i'm just saying you can't draw that venn diagram. 01:03:06 not that i am denigrating it 01:03:16 slap should be denigrated. 01:03:48 haha. 01:03:51 who cares. 01:04:16 it changes a lot 01:04:17 that's why 01:04:23 yep 01:04:25 btw, davb i tried doing a search on your log and it crapped out 01:04:55 really? error message. 01:05:18 yup 01:06:18 crap. xmms doesn't like my ide-scsi cdrom 01:06:30 also. 01:06:47 what's the deal with corporations donating to people who are already rich. 01:07:03 * Thursdayphylax is throwing out his stuff 01:07:29 for instance, learning that some scrub i knew 5 years ago is now making $297,000 as a skateboarder was a kick in the stomach. 01:07:52 the kick in the nuts came, when I learned that apple gave him $12K worth of hardware. 01:08:19 holy 01:08:23 is he a good skater? 01:08:30 yeah he's real good. 01:08:50 but the thing is. he's kind of obscure. if he's making that much...i can't imagine what the well known guys are making. 01:09:13 were you ever sponsored or a professional? 01:09:16 or why apple would give pro skateboarders a cinema display 01:09:17 no. 01:09:34 but a bunch of my friends are now pro. 01:09:45 i must admit i don't quite understand the phenomena of pro-skateboarding 01:09:45 but they aren't living large pro. 01:10:01 who pays these people? for what? who is buying the shit? 01:10:07 shoe sponsorships. 01:10:15 how are they making this much money, though? 01:10:20 skateboarders used to make zilch 01:10:25 how is this such a big industry? 01:10:30 but then they realized the shoe sponsorship thing. 01:10:37 because not just skateboarders wear sneakers. 01:10:42 is it all eXtreme games shit? 01:11:08 its mostly from shoes. 01:11:08 yes, but who else seeks out shoes worn by skinny white kids? 01:11:21 other skinny white kids. 01:11:47 i see 01:11:51 you'd be suprised. 01:11:59 do other skinny white kids buy that many shoes? 01:12:04 yeah. 01:12:15 if you actually skateboard, you go through a pair of shoes a month. 01:12:23 skinny brown kids too - my nephew's a tony hawke nut 01:12:42 if you don't skateboard, you still buy at least 2 pairs of sneakers a year 01:12:46 just to keep in style. 01:13:22 its just like basketball shoes. 01:13:38 i would even posit that skateboarding is better off than most other sports 01:13:48 because anyone can get a skateboard, and poke around on it. 01:14:04 i can't 01:14:05 whereas you have to be totally athletic and 7 feet tall to excel at basketball. 01:14:07 i fall off the shit 01:14:23 skateboarding is like bicycling. it still can be fun even if you really suck. 01:14:44 most competitive sports are not fun at all unless you are winning. 01:15:08 or unless you don't care about winning :-) 01:15:12 yeah. 01:15:30 vinod: you mean like the Green Bay Packers? 01:15:32 but they aren't geared towards that. 01:15:46 like. if you suck at bball. your teammates are mad, and you are gonna get razzed. 01:15:49 talli: yeah 01:15:57 if you suck at skateboarding, guys are like "just try it again, dood" 01:15:57 and just think how the niners must feel :-) 01:16:20 anyeay. 01:16:22 anyway. 01:16:29 rzolf: and for some reason the chicks dig the skaters more 01:16:36 which i always resented 01:16:44 i need to find a way to make $297,000 this year, or else it is going to be hard to justify my existence. 01:16:59 has docwolf heard that yet? 01:17:09 can you start a religion? 01:17:20 talli, that is because you lived in california. where i grew up, I had a hard time avoiding being run over by some hockey player in a pickup truck. 01:17:31 ah, that sucks. 01:17:38 while his girlfriend spit tobacco at me as they drove off. 01:17:42 haha 01:17:56 why didn't you just prematurely pull her ripcord? 01:18:05 skateboarders were about as cool as ... computer programmers. 01:18:40 btw, the girl that i had a big crush on and who lives in MN apparently is shacked up with some tattooed 35 yo indy rock type who "restores antique furniture" 01:18:51 whoa. oh man. 01:18:58 that sounds totally minneapolis. 01:19:11 my ex GF... 01:19:38 her new boyfriend. makes ... custom eyeglass frames ... out of wood. :'-( 01:19:56 nice. how "artistic and creative" 01:20:22 i was thinking more "how gay." but i know that isn't proper to say outside of the 8th grade anymore. 01:20:29 i'd hate to get a splinter in my eye 01:20:37 i wish we lived in 17th century northern europe and trade guilds were hip 01:20:52 well, just move to minneapolis. they are still hip. 01:20:52 i'd like to have an aprentice 01:20:55 then being a small artisan might be worth pursuing 01:21:25 vinod: you can be my apprentice 01:21:25 you just need. to start a "slowcore" band. with a hint of "post rock" and "country" 01:21:30 move to uptown. 01:21:42 wear goofy eyeglasses. 01:21:44 by the way, what's "alt-country" 01:21:52 wait, no, that's not the term 01:21:56 "no depression" 01:22:01 and work in a furniture store. 01:22:19 claim your hobbies are "making paper" and "glass blowing" 01:22:26 holy shit 01:22:30 you'll get lots of confused chicks. 01:22:32 * davb thouroughly dislikes debugging the debugger 01:22:41 i know both a paper maker and a glass blower from MN 01:22:47 christ almighty 01:22:50 :'-( 01:22:55 are there that many freaks there? 01:22:59 yes! 01:23:00 do they do anything productive there? 01:23:03 no! 01:23:11 3M is there. 01:23:17 also, what about covering your arms with tattoos your ex-gf's brother designed? 01:23:19 MN is a "lifestyle choice" 01:23:45 also, don't forget buying a home at the age of 12 01:23:47 the deal is. it is really cheap to live there, and it is like the #2 place in the world for "advertising firms" so there are TONS of washed up hipsters. 01:24:14 it has to have the highest concentration of "Graphic Designers" out side of NYC. 01:24:23 heh 01:24:33 I guess I need to move there. 01:24:47 davb: give up. you're a hacker 01:25:04 davb: if you want to work as a graphic designer, it is an ideal place. 01:25:27 every once in a while I read a whole bunch of web designy sites all day. 01:25:44 davb: I like that idea 01:25:45 infact i would speculate that one would have a much better life as a graphic designer there, than a programmer. 01:26:01 davb: did you see that there's a CMS conference coming up? 01:26:12 nope. where? 01:26:13 conference? 01:26:19 talli aren't there a lot of MN ppl in NYC? 01:26:22 on -just- cms? 01:26:30 when i was in brooklyn. everyone was from minnesota. 01:26:38 rzolf: i don't know 01:26:41 i tend to avoid people 01:26:50 williamsburg was like. the mn expatriates choice. 01:26:57 and the more people i meet from MN, the more i avoid tehm in particular 01:27:00 ahah. 01:27:17 jilted for too many antique suitcase collectors, i guess. 01:27:19 i've met some that hang out in the east village 01:27:40 the more people you meet from MN, the less people you meet from MN?? 01:27:42 problem is, I can't get my work to send me to any conferences. 01:27:43 the east village is the most contrived hipster joint in the world, which is what i gather most MN kiddies are from 01:27:55 i like the east village. :-/ 01:28:04 yon lives over there. 01:29:28 when was the last time you were in the east village? 01:30:47 when docwolf and i went to NYC 01:30:53 about a month ago. 01:30:58 ah 01:31:07 well, i think the east village is pretty cheesy 01:31:15 i do too, but that's fun. 01:31:24 i guess 01:31:40 posers are an interesting phenomenon 01:33:03 that sounds ok to me. 01:33:06 what is EV 01:33:16 east village 01:33:16 east village is the most contrived hipster joint in the world, which is what i gather most MN kiddies are from 01:33:19 oh 01:33:55 i mean. i guess that sucks? but. its unclear as to whether "keeping it real" is really that cool. 01:34:18 like i would rather live where i have easy access to food and bookstores 01:34:33 rather than...actually meeting the cast of welcome back kotter. 01:34:40 haha 01:35:20 good luck meeting barbarino :) 01:35:27 "i'm keeping it so real out here in flushing" 01:36:08 "when the black kids aren't throwing rocks at me, the italian guy is trying to cell me a phone card. this is so cool." 01:36:24 etc. 01:36:38 ah, I kinda have tclpro working with tcl pages. 01:36:52 er s/sell/cell 01:37:16 is there a good tcl thing for printing tcl on a b/w postscript printer? 01:37:32 (or, better, to a .ps file) 01:38:42 heh 01:38:49 I just threw out 5 bags of garbage 01:38:59 rzolf: how long were you in nyc? 01:39:02 and I only cleaned out 3 drawers and the top of my desk 01:39:07 about a year. 01:39:16 all in brooklyn? 01:39:19 anyone want rubberbands? 01:39:21 yes 01:39:35 i'm trying to decide where to live 01:39:46 where will you be working 01:39:48 i'm gonna be working on the upper east side (90's) 01:40:03 so, i want to live along the 4,5,6 01:40:07 you probably want to live on the east side then. 01:40:15 are you working at cornell? 01:40:26 no - metropolitan hospital (ny medical college) 01:40:30 ok. 01:40:36 i worked at cornell. ;-) 01:40:49 cool - cornell medical? 01:40:52 yeah. 01:41:07 that's around the 70's, right? 01:41:16 70th and york. 01:41:20 it kind of sucked. 01:41:30 because getting from york. up to the subway 01:41:33 was a 15 min walk. 01:41:45 so it seemed easy to get to, but wasn't. 01:42:06 ahhh. the east side isn't so convenient, subway wise 01:42:15 what's that area between the east village and midtown. 01:42:22 you should live there. it is pleasant. 01:42:31 murray hill? 01:42:33 yeah. 01:42:34 anyone from around NY want a free mini-shelf system with 2 tape decks, a cd player and AM/FM tuner? 01:42:37 Fully functionaly 01:42:40 Functional rather 01:42:46 murray hill is nice. 01:42:51 or at least it was 4 years ago. 01:43:02 ok, i'll look there too 01:43:29 its like. not too hip. and not too yuppie. but hip and yuppie enough to not be totally lame. 01:43:37 i'd been leaning towards living right near work, just to be convenient, but i haven't made a decision yet 01:43:38 however there are some stealth ultra expensive places there 01:44:06 yeah upper east side is ok. 01:44:20 jim has quit (Remote closed the connection) 01:44:21 there is a lot of housing up there 01:44:24 talli says it's frat-boy heaven 01:44:35 i think it was talli 01:44:45 in any case someone else i talked to agreed 01:44:46 sure but the big secret is that both the frat boys and the hipsters are all just drunkards. 01:45:13 so i'd get along with them :-) 01:45:18 so. unless you are a total bar fly, you won't be interacting with them so much. 01:45:27 haha 01:45:49 however if you are a bar fly. you probably want to situate yourself near some bars that you like. ;-) 01:46:11 most of my friends in nyc live downtown, so i figure i'd be hanging out downtown on those rare moments i have free time 01:46:23 that's the thing about nyc. it is like, the "most interesting place in the world" yet it seems like the main thing people do is go out and get really drunk. 01:47:22 or at least, that's the "nightlife" 01:47:39 my idea of nightlife is more along the lines of "get real hopped up on caffiene and IRC" 01:47:49 haha 01:47:55 :'-( 01:48:32 that's mostly the extent of my nightlife 01:48:39 punctuated by the occasional oacs social 01:49:08 yeah. 01:49:30 i tried the "go to bars" thing for a couple years, but...i think overall...i met more women on IRC. 01:50:26 wow - i thought the m/f ratio on irc was infinity 01:50:38 heh. 01:50:50 well, my bar hopping was really fruitless. 01:54:03 what are you doing these days vinod. 01:54:59 well. i'm going to start as an internal med doc on july 1st, so i'll probably move down in june 01:55:10 sweet. 01:55:13 gonna be a doc full time (well 2d/wk teaching residents) 01:55:14 thanks 01:55:42 will you start your writing career ala oliver sacks. 01:55:49 so, i'm furiously trying to get a ny medical license and credentials, while also hoping to land a nice apt 01:55:50 and chill with the west village intelligensia 01:55:56 haha 01:56:03 you've obviously never seen my writing 01:56:16 "the man who mistook his appendcitis for a hat" 01:56:21 lol 01:57:31 here's one: http://newyork.craigslist.org/apa/3648718.html 01:58:21 oh. yon's building is nice, and they have tons of openings 01:58:23 and it is new 01:58:38 however, it is on like... 8th and avenue C. :-/ 01:58:55 oh... i don't spose that's anywhere near the subway 01:59:27 not too close. however neither is yorkville (but yorkville is way closer to your job) 01:59:40 yorkville is way over by... "york" 01:59:58 where york ~= "the river" 02:00:05 ahhh 02:00:20 so that's a hike to the subway 02:00:23 yup 02:00:29 argh 02:01:20 its ok. there isn't much to do over there, but it is "normal" 02:01:43 whoa. $1750 for a 1BR. haven't seen that since Russian Hill, SF, 2000. 02:01:46 like, normal people with families live over there. 02:02:03 that actually seems pretty steep for the area, unless the apartment is really nice. 02:02:13 rzolf: that might be too normal for me 02:02:19 ok 02:02:24 :-) 02:02:27 ;-) 02:03:08 my only price gauge is craigslist - haven't looked much more than that 02:03:19 ack 02:03:32 in SF, craigslist rents were always considered $500 or more above "normal" 02:03:39 anyone wnat to hit F6 about a billion times so I can get to the end of this script and see wtf is happening? 02:03:46 because landlords knew the computer people were suckers. ;-) 02:04:05 haha 02:04:08 rzolf: which is fine, considering that you could always go to an agent and go $1000 above market. 02:04:34 I nearly had to sue the one I messed with in SF. 02:04:57 true. or you could go look at the craigslist apartment, and as you are walking there, see three other openings on the same street for 2/3 the price. 02:05:02 this was 2001, however. 02:05:06 after the bust. 02:05:12 yeah, that would be it. 2000 was different. 02:05:32 vinod: why don't you move to chicago where all the drs are hot and sleep with each other, like on ER 02:05:40 nowadays in SF craigslist is known to be a really bad place to find an apartment 02:06:00 because you can just walk down the street and find better deals. 02:06:08 this is true. 02:06:21 i dunno what the deal is with craigslist in SF. 02:06:23 er 02:06:25 NYC i meant 02:06:26