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04:41:06 <AaronSw> Google also moved it to an inferior technical platform, SOAP RPC running over HTTP POST. On many mailing lists, weblogs and discussion groups the reaction was mixed. It felt like one step forward and two steps back
04:41:08 <AaronSw> http://www.xml.com/lpt/a/2002/04/24/google.html
04:41:08 <oacs-chump> A: http://www.xml.com/lpt/a/2002/04/24/google.html from AaronSw
04:41:13 <AaronSw> A:|Google's Gaffe
04:41:13 <oacs-chump> titled item A
04:41:19 <AaronSw> A:Towards a REST Google API
04:41:19 <oacs-chump> added comment A1
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12:43:15 <davb> hello
12:43:15 <paje> bonjour, davb
12:55:12 <davb> * davb install tclpro
12:56:33 <Wednesdayphylax> Wednesdayphylax is now known as Thursday
12:56:36 <Thursday> Thursday is now known as Thursdayphylax
12:56:39 <Thursdayphylax> morning
12:58:34 <Thursdayphylax> great
12:58:36 <Thursdayphylax> I lost my checkbook
12:59:11 <davb> ack
12:59:24 <davb> time to visit the bank
12:59:51 <Thursdayphylax> i probably didn't "lose" it
12:59:59 <Thursdayphylax> it's just under a pile of something in my room
13:00:21 <Thursdayphylax> heh
13:00:29 <Thursdayphylax> I got me custom plates last night online
13:02:20 <shagster> who wears socks ?
13:02:28 <Thursdayphylax> paje does sometimes
13:02:28 <paje> Thursdayphylax: i'm not following you...
13:02:38 <Thursdayphylax> forgot your socks again paje?
13:03:09 <shagster> Well, three major disasters handled, the world is back at peace (well, for now)
13:03:17 <davb> excellent.
13:03:46 <Thursdayphylax> I found socks
13:03:57 <Thursdayphylax> that's another major disaster handled
13:04:10 <Thursdayphylax> davb you know what my plates say?
13:06:06 <davb> no, i turned off that program that logs all you internet traffic.
13:06:48 <Thursdayphylax> they say "LAZYGEEK"
13:06:49 <Thursdayphylax> lol
13:06:55 <Thursdayphylax> I think that describes me perfectly
13:07:16 <davb> cool. that AI over the the DMV is getting pretty good.
13:07:25 <Thursdayphylax> lol
13:07:43 <Thursdayphylax> it will take 4 weeks for them to get me the plates though
13:10:07 <Thursdayphylax> work time
13:12:09 <shagster> Thrusdayphylax:  Hey, what your language.  espically that four letter word :)
13:16:04 <davb> http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/lang/perl/blagg/
13:16:04 <oacs-chump> B: http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/lang/perl/blagg/ from davb
13:16:18 <davb> B:|Blagg - Simple RSS Aggregator in Perl
13:16:18 <oacs-chump> titled item B
13:16:40 <davb> B: i might borrow some ideas from this for OpenACS
13:16:41 <oacs-chump> added comment B1
13:48:01 <markd2> markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-087.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
13:49:49 <Thursdayphylax> work?
13:49:49 <paje> work is slow today... i'm paying bills, bidding on a job, scouring austin.tx opportunities.
13:50:00 <Thursdayphylax> awww, poor paje
13:50:16 <Thursdayphylax> I wonder if you can change your order after you order your custom plates
13:50:27 <Thursdayphylax> I found out that syslogd is available
13:50:42 <davb> Thursdayphylax: i suspect not.
13:51:00 <Thursdayphylax> I suspect it's a government agency so you're probably right
13:51:41 <Thursdayphylax> I dunno
13:51:48 <Thursdayphylax> does that suit me well? "LAZYGEEK"?
13:51:55 <Thursdayphylax> * Thursdayphylax gives mark a cookie for his opinion
13:53:12 <Thursdayphylax> hehehe
13:53:18 <Thursdayphylax> EVILMNKY is available
13:53:27 <Thursdayphylax> anyone have an evil monkey they haven't told us about?
13:54:20 <markd2> heh
13:54:43 <markd2> I should see if PA can do 8-character plates
13:55:05 <Thursdayphylax> Mark, you think LAZYGEEK suits me?
13:55:25 <markd2> S/L/CR/
13:55:27 <Thursdayphylax> ROFL
13:55:39 <Thursdayphylax> "NEED JOB" is available
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13:58:38 <davb> anyone ever use tclpro debugger?
13:59:07 <djg> davb: yep
13:59:21 <Thursdayphylax> TCLJEBUS is available
14:01:14 <davb> djg: with aolserver? :)
14:01:14 <markd2> TclMeLmo
14:04:26 <djg> davb: with acs actually
14:04:32 <davb> cool.
14:05:20 <djg> i dont remember how to set it up etc though
14:05:29 <djg> can't be that hard though if you're root
14:05:48 <djg> and then you can have good ole line by line debugging
14:05:55 <davb> great.
14:06:04 <davb> then I will be able to track down the tclSOAP wackiness.
14:07:38 <djg> does anyone happen to know how much activitly there is in the tcl core development?
14:07:52 <djg> just wondering? maybe scriptics' failure was not that bad for TCL
14:08:59 <davb> there is at least one developer.
14:09:17 <davb> and they have taken the memory allocator from aolserver and put it ito tcl.
14:09:35 <djg> yeah, but when scriptics was acquired, they released all the proprietary stuff
14:11:05 <davb> Jeff Hobbes I think from activestate. he is active in aolserver also.
14:11:20 <alltelsucks> alltelsucks (~markd2@h166-102-041-087.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
14:11:20 <djg> yeah, he's both on the mailing list and on the tcl newsgroup
14:11:34 <alltelsucks> paje, alltel?
14:11:34 <paje> alltel are a bunch of wankers
14:11:52 <djg> why are you working on soap now? you were the xmlrpc guy, werent you?
14:11:54 <alltelsucks> paje, botsnack
14:11:55 <paje> thanks alltelsucks :)
14:12:07 <davb> yes.
14:12:21 <davb> tclsoap allows you to export procs as soap and xmlrpc at the same time.
14:12:31 <djg> ah
14:12:39 <davb> also their xmlrpc code is better than mine.
14:12:39 <djg> has someone on this channel here tried tclblend?
14:14:08 <davb> not me.
14:14:23 <djg> or integrated with java otherwise?
14:18:51 <rbm|Boston> rbm|Boston is now known as rbm
14:19:04 <rbm> oooom
14:19:10 <davb> hi rbm
14:22:34 <markd2> markd2 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:22:50 <rbm> hey davb
14:23:00 <rbm> made it to Logan at 1 AM today
14:23:10 <davb> ow
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14:23:33 <talli_> heeeeellllllllllloooooooooooo fellow martian comrade brothers in arms
14:23:33 <markd2> alltel?
14:23:34 <paje> alltel are a bunch of wankers
14:23:43 <markd2> paje: botsnack
14:23:44 <paje> :)
14:23:49 <markd2> tallibot: alltel?
14:23:50 <paje> alltel are a bunch of wankers
14:23:52 <markd2> tallibot: botbeer
14:24:13 <talli_> * talli_ the bot does a jig around a pole
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14:28:29 <davb> A: analysis of Google SOAP API and example of RESTifying it
14:28:29 <oacs-chump> added comment A2
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14:30:33 <rbm> hey talli!
14:35:36 <vinod> vinod (~vinod@208-59-182-178.s1702.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
14:35:54 <rbm> vinod!!
14:36:06 <vinod> rbm!!
14:36:12 <vinod> how was your trip home?
14:36:29 <rbm> vinod: It was good.
14:37:00 <vinod> cool
14:37:28 <davb> hi vinod
14:37:29 <rbm> vinod: Turns out the flight did stop at Denver but I didn't notice because my itinerary only said "Leaves BOS... Arrives SLC"
14:37:46 <vinod> hey davb - how was your trip home :-)
14:37:51 <davb> good.
14:37:55 <vinod> rbm: ahhh - bummer
14:38:02 <davb> not too bad traffic.
14:38:15 <markd2> how were the pirate stories?
14:38:53 <vinod> * vinod folds up his hula skirt and puts it away
14:39:13 <markd2> hot-lips hula-man
14:39:25 <vinod> lol
14:42:03 <vinod> the only pirate stories were when rbm was convincing us to try morpheus
14:42:16 <vinod> i could see the DMCA spycams turning their lenses on us :-)
14:44:10 <rbm> wasn't it aegromet telling us about KaazaaL
14:44:15 <rbm> s/L/?/
14:44:53 <vinod> oh yeah, him too
14:45:23 <markd2> wallace and aegrumet
14:53:25 <talli_> markd2: both rbm  and davb stayed overnight with vinod
14:53:31 <talli_> i was very worried about this
14:54:05 <talli_> after all those things that the Pope said the other day about pedophiles, i just wasn't sure vinod was going to internalize it in time
14:54:20 <vinod> talli_ was just upset that he wasn't invited
14:54:30 <talli_> well, that too
14:54:56 <vinod> awww - anyone that buys me that much beer is always welcome at my place!
14:57:40 <markd2> heh.  too much beer == plausible deniability
14:57:47 <markd2> deniabillygoat
14:58:56 <talli_> goat beer float
14:59:10 <vinod> whoa
14:59:20 <vinod> talli_ gives markd2 a run for his money
14:59:59 <talli_> markd2 doesn't raise goats like i do
15:00:10 <talli_> rather, raize goats
15:00:15 <talli_> haize goats
15:00:19 <talli_> maize and goats
15:00:35 <talli_> now, i must get meal of the oats
15:01:26 <vinod> just say no, talli
15:02:59 <talli_> lemme add some coffee to that order
15:03:02 <rbm> * rbm has to run to work to fill out his timecard so he can get paid his hourly college-level salary
15:03:23 <talli_> SHIT! charles manson was denied parole again
15:03:27 <shagster> * shagster has other uses for goats :)
15:03:29 <talli_> we had plans this weekend, too!
15:03:43 <shagster> And he is just a nice guy, I don't understand why
15:03:45 <shagster> ;0
15:04:10 <talli_> i think it's the swastika tatoo on his forehead
15:04:17 <talli_> he should sue for discrimination
15:05:13 <shagster> Yea, somebody register freechalesmanson.us :)
15:05:28 <talli_> haha
15:05:31 <talli_> .biz
15:06:43 <shagster> .info :)
15:08:26 <markd2> .pants
15:08:40 <vinod> markd2: nice article on the Big Nerd Ranch!
15:08:41 <davb> uhoh.
15:08:53 <davb> someone with me in their address book got hit by that new virus
15:10:32 <vinod> davb: yeah, i got about 3 or 4 emails yesterday
15:10:45 <markd2>  anything in the headers to tell you where it really came from?
15:11:16 <markd2> vinod: thanks
15:11:21 <vinod> mine said borkware all over it
15:11:21 <davb> nah. 
15:11:37 <markd2> heh
15:11:39 <davb> he didn't forward the offending message.
15:13:42 <vinod> markd2: but i was expecting you to rate the BNR, you know like 938 out of 939.6
15:13:57 <vinod> now i don't know how to fit it in with your other reviews ;-)
15:14:16 <markd2> heh
15:14:19 <markd2> different personas
15:14:28 <vinod> ahhh
15:15:04 <markd2> wow.  Ollam BinSoddin's been hanging out here!  http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/news/index.cfm?instanceid=28061
15:15:47 <vinod> markd2: if these personas ever start fighting with each other, let me know
15:16:18 <vinod> "Osama bin Laden always portrayed himself as a devout practitioner of Islam, but he had some wild-and-woolly experiences -- including a sizzling two-week fling with a goat!"
15:16:35 <vinod> has osama been hanging out on #openacs?
15:17:16 <vinod> i have seen that barstool character here a lot
15:18:11 <markd2> 'barstool' is probably a term of affection in Arabic
15:18:13 <talli_> uh, markd2, i think you're "projecting" a little bit
15:18:40 <talli_> ever sit on a barstool? it's sublime
15:19:14 <talli_> bbiam
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15:56:32 <markd2> * markd2 registers Fridayphylax
15:56:46 <AaronSw> heh, heh
16:00:49 <paje> i think # is docwolf in on this too?
16:00:52 <davb> heh
16:01:55 <talli__> talli__ (~chatzilla@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
16:02:01 <talli__> markd2: when coding Cocoa, do you ever get confused by all the NSxxx calls? i mean, what with all the nsxxx in aolserver and all the HOT XXX in my head?
16:02:03 <talli_> talli_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:02:10 <markd2> nope
16:02:14 <talli__> talli__ is now known as talli_
16:02:22 <davb> whats NS in cocoa stand for?
16:02:26 <markd2> NextStep
16:02:53 <davb> ah, duh
16:02:57 <markd2> heh
16:03:34 <talli_> no to cocoa-aolserver or cocoa-porn in talli's head?
16:04:08 <rbm> * rbm leaves
16:04:19 <markd2> I assume there's always cocoa-porn in talli's head
16:04:23 <markd2> cuckoo for cocoa-porn!
16:04:28 <Thursdayphylax> wtf
16:04:37 <talli_> ok...
16:04:48 <rzolf> rzolf (~rolf@badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs
16:04:51 <talli_> i'm thinking about taking the OACS social tour national
16:04:54 <talli_> holy moly
16:04:59 <talli_> lookee who's here
16:05:15 <markd2> gitdown!
16:05:15 <paje> gitfunky
16:05:45 <talli_> rzolf: how's the energy drink concoction biznarse nowadays?
16:06:33 <talli_> markd2: what's a good time in your schedule for me to organize a Pittsburgh social?
16:06:44 <talli_> AaronSw: how about a good time in your schedule for a chicago social?
16:07:05 <AaronSw> almost anytime is good
16:07:19 <markd2> after the first week of june
16:07:28 <talli_> ok
16:07:51 <markd2> what about a south florida oacs and slash fiction social?
16:07:57 <rzolf> hi
16:08:02 <talli_> whoa
16:08:18 <talli_> the slash fiction social is only in my dreams
16:08:24 <rzolf> hi
16:08:30 <talli_> and there's a write-up on my homepage
16:08:41 <rzolf> what is your homepage.
16:08:42 <markd2> docwolf can take you to some "harness" races
16:09:02 <rzolf> i still need to go to jai alai, scuba dive, and take a fanboat in the everglades.
16:09:14 <rzolf> and also dance with a supermodel in south beach.
16:09:22 <markd2> I think Fabio is free
16:09:41 <rzolf> i have an asian fetish though.
16:09:41 <talli_> not to mention protect little elian from the communists
16:09:46 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
16:10:14 <rzolf> talli do you have a homepage.
16:10:26 <rzolf> markD2, so "whattabout them apples"
16:10:26 <talli_> not yet
16:10:38 <rzolf> re: the fillmyass course.
16:10:51 <rzolf> my gift of internet gab has finally paid off!
16:10:53 <talli_> when i do, i hope to stuff it with as much content as gitdown.com
16:10:59 <markd2> that would rule
16:11:22 <denshi> ooh.. gitdown is now an r&d firm.
16:11:29 <rzolf> i improved my home pae.
16:11:41 <rzolf> +g
16:11:47 <denshi> yes
16:12:03 <denshi> it has gone from a single image to something bizarre and tawdry.
16:12:18 <rzolf> i added some facts about myself
16:12:21 <rzolf> to my personal pae.
16:12:27 <rzolf> why doesn't my g key work.
16:12:36 <denshi> like a domokun molesting a kitten convicted of securities fraud at 24 frames per second.
16:13:03 <rzolf> ok, i have to stop talking on #openacs, because it is logged, and there is too much dumb crap I've said logged all over the internet.
16:13:09 <rzolf> i'm available for /msging 
16:13:12 <rzolf> rzolf has left #openacs
16:13:44 <rzolf> rzolf (~rolf@badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs
16:13:45 <rzolf> oh wait.
16:13:46 <denshi> oops.  always need to keep an eye on that future political career.
16:13:49 <rzolf> i guess i can prevent logging.
16:14:48 <markd2> only 700?
16:14:57 <markd2> guess that cancelbot is working
16:15:48 <denshi> hey talli, what's a good time for the austin social?
16:15:56 <talli_> up to you
16:16:07 <denshi> I'm thinking two weeks into may.
16:16:10 <markd2> wow.  and I was just in Austin
16:16:16 <markd2> well, a year and a couple of months ago 
16:16:23 <rzolf> google returns about 2,100 postings for me
16:16:29 <rzolf> of which I think only 800 are actually me.
16:16:41 <markd2> the rest are flames of your 700 posts to rmmb
16:16:44 <rzolf> :'-(
16:16:53 <denshi> 2,130
16:17:07 <rzolf> totally embarrassing.
16:17:08 <denshi> you could publish a book.
16:17:11 <rzolf> and i have an excuse.
16:17:28 <rzolf> during that time period, I got a job in Iowa city.
16:17:34 <rzolf> there wasn't much to do there.
16:17:43 <rzolf> my job was very easy.
16:17:44 <denshi> 3,140 for 'Todd Gillespie'
16:17:51 <talli_> is there anything to do in that state?
16:18:07 <rzolf> crystal meth.
16:18:13 <rzolf> 4020 for mark dalrymple!
16:18:19 <talli_> could be worse, i guess
16:18:30 <rzolf> iowa is one of my least favorite places.
16:18:31 <markd2> all of mine were in alt.warlord
16:18:36 <denshi> heh.
16:19:13 <denshi> I'm trying to seperate other todd gillespie out of the search
16:19:16 <rzolf> i used to think I hated boston, but there are many other places I like much, much less.
16:19:53 <rzolf> iowa, indiana, nebraska, illinois - chicago
16:19:53 <denshi> there seems to be some nutjob in Kentucky trying to topple the IRS under my name.
16:20:12 <rzolf> not fond of connecticut
16:20:15 <rzolf> etc.
16:20:54 <talli_> chicago is bad?
16:21:19 <rzolf> no, the rest of chicago is.
16:22:01 <talli_> is "avaritical" a word?
16:22:09 <talli_> can it be used as a modification of avarice?
16:22:41 <talli_> like, "my avaritical mind"
16:22:52 <denshi> 'avaricious'
16:22:53 <talli_> what is the more proper modification of avarice in that context?
16:22:57 <talli_> ah, thank you
16:22:57 <rzolf> i like "my mind, lathered with avarice"
16:23:13 <denshi> 'my avarirannical mind'
16:23:22 <talli_> rzolf: change that to body, and i'll use it in my next slash episode
16:23:22 <paje> talli_: that doesn't look right
16:23:47 <denshi> paje, botsnack.
16:23:47 <paje> thanks denshi :)
16:24:23 <talli_> paje, botsmack
16:24:24 <paje> * paje slumps into a purple haze
16:24:50 <markd2> wow.  I forgot I used to post to alt.cows.moo.moo.moo
16:25:21 <rzolf> paje, get off my botsack.
16:25:21 <paje> rzolf: what?
16:25:24 <rzolf> hmm.
16:26:19 <denshi> markd2, google also claims you spoke in a blend of nihongo and swedish chef back in your visix days.
16:26:24 <rbm> * rbm arrives at work
16:26:34 <rbm> Darn I'm stupid
16:27:09 <rzolf> why is word still running.
16:27:18 <markd2> yep
16:27:19 <rbm> My boss asked me "So were you recruited by another university or company?" (they really need me for a project we are starting)
16:27:36 <rbm> And I, with my honesty, just said "no, that wasn't why I went there"
16:28:11 <rbm> I should have said "Yeah, it's awesome. I'm moving in 3 weeks, unless you're making me a better offer"
16:28:23 <talli_> "no, i went there to hang out with some nerds i met on the internet"
16:29:19 <denshi> sidenote: apache2 design was started in february 1997.
16:29:58 <rbm> * rbm wonders why denshi brought this up now
16:30:04 <rzolf> apache2 rules. apache1 drools.
16:30:20 <denshi> I'm reading design notes in another window.
16:31:31 <talli_> rzolf: have you used apache2?
16:31:48 <markd2> rzolf *is* apache2
16:31:48 <rzolf> no, not really.
16:32:05 <denshi> it's a lie, mark.  apache2 *is* rzolf.
16:32:10 <talli_> i would like to meet someone that has actally used the fucker
16:32:20 <rzolf> i dont see what the point is.
16:32:33 <denshi> umm, in what sense do you mean 'used'?
16:32:34 <markd2> apache2 *is* rzolf *is* apahce2 ...
16:32:40 <rzolf> ad_page_contract improves my life, apache2...probably does not.
16:32:40 <denshi> paje, rzolf?
16:32:40 <paje> i heard rzolf was staunch
16:32:48 <denshi> paje, forget rzolf
16:32:48 <paje> denshi: I forgot rzolf
16:32:59 <markd2> rzolf is a smooth buddy
16:33:14 <denshi> rzolf is also inside each of us, and several C programs, too.
16:33:14 <paje> okay, denshi.
16:33:22 <markd2> rzolf?
16:33:22 <paje> rzolf is a smooth buddy or inside each of us, and several C programs, too.
16:33:24 <markd2> rzolf?
16:33:24 <paje> i think rzolf is a smooth buddy or inside each of us, and several C programs, too.
16:33:35 <denshi> not quite grammatical...
16:33:37 <rzolf> i like the way C makes me feel sleepy.
16:33:41 <markd2> paje, rzolf ~= /or/|/
16:33:41 <paje> markd2: what?
16:33:44 <denshi> rzolf is also avaricious.
16:33:45 <paje> okay, denshi.
16:33:46 <markd2> oh well
16:33:51 <markd2> paje, forget rzolf
16:33:52 <paje> markd2: I forgot rzolf
16:34:10 <markd2> rzolf is a smooth buddy | inside each of us, and several C programs, too. | alos avaricious
16:34:12 <markd2> rzolf?
16:34:12 <paje> rzolf is inside each of us, and several C programs, too.
16:34:17 <markd2> rzolf?
16:34:17 <paje> well, rzolf is inside each of us, and several C programs, too.
16:34:19 <markd2> rzolf?
16:34:19 <paje> rzolf is inside each of us, and several C programs, too.
16:34:23 <markd2> literal rzolf
16:34:23 <paje> markd2: rzolf =is= a smooth buddy | inside each of us, and several C programs, too. | alos avaricious
16:34:28 <markd2> ack
16:34:31 <markd2> forget rzolf
16:34:31 <paje> markd2: I forgot rzolf
16:34:34 <denshi> paje, botsmack.
16:34:34 <paje> * paje slumps into a purple haze
16:34:38 <markd2> rzolf is a smooth buddy | inside each of us, and several C programs, too. | also avaricious
16:34:40 <markd2> there
16:34:40 <denshi> markd2, marksmack.
16:34:47 <markd2> * markd2 slumps into a purple haze
16:34:48 <denshi> stop this nonsense.
16:35:03 <markd2> rzolf is also | wearing pants
16:35:03 <paje> okay, markd2.
16:35:04 <talli_> i have a technical question for the technical people in this channel
16:35:18 <rbm> * rbm runs
16:35:38 <talli_> when developing a C program, is it difficult to provide a number of bindings for different scripting languages?
16:36:07 <denshi> that runs in a different direction,
16:36:11 <rbm> There's a library to do that. Can't remember what it's called. IIRC, PyWX uses it
16:36:16 <rzolf> swig
16:36:19 <rbm> that's it
16:36:37 <rzolf> nothing is hard, it just all involves "work"
16:36:37 <talli_> well, there's swig, but swig seems to be mostly for an application that already exists that you would then like to add scripting to
16:37:06 <talli_> from what i understand, it's more brute force than elegance
16:37:19 <denshi> all 3 of you are off base.
16:37:25 <talli_> munging a scripting language on to a legacy C app
16:37:35 <markd2> you are off base are belong to us
16:37:39 <rzolf> sort of like a cage match between kristi yamaguchi vs dusty rhoades.
16:38:05 <rzolf> in any case, what is the real problem.
16:38:08 <talli_> rzolf is a highly post-modern chap. that's a serious pop culture reference
16:38:15 <talli_> denshi: you have something to add?
16:38:25 <talli_> are you typing furiously?
16:38:31 <denshi> yes.
16:38:34 <talli_> ok
16:39:14 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("Bork")
16:39:32 <denshi> talli, when you're writing a C program and looking to add scripting, unless you're going to store crucial data structures in the scripting space, then the question should be approached from the direction of the language added.  there's not much you need to do in the C program for abstraction if each language is going to be a mask on C data structures.
16:39:53 <rbm> I was goint to say basically what denshi said
16:40:34 <talli_> denshi: well, i'm thinking in terms of Momentum
16:40:45 <talli_> we ought to support more than one scripting language
16:40:47 <davb> talli: you are talking about different language options right. not more than one at a time.
16:40:57 <talli_> davb: right
16:41:00 <rbm> The question is, when you say "add scripting" you mean in the sense of AOLserver or in the sense of, say, the python bindings for Qt?
16:41:07 <denshi> control is a problem if you have multiple languages and multiple threads and trying to correspond scripting threads to application threads on 1-1, but otherwise each language has a fairly normal chunk of "import scripting lib, register procedures corresponding to C, transfer control to scripting loop"
16:41:16 <talli_> we'll probably start with Perl since reefknot already exists (http://reefknot.sf.net)
16:41:25 <talli_> but would like to provide bindings for python, tcl and PHP too
16:41:29 <talli_> maybe even java
16:41:49 <talli_> rbm: i would like it to be as in AOLserver
16:41:56 <talli_> but i could be wrong in the way i am thinking of it
16:41:59 <rbm> You'll need Jeanie (the genius) to have it working with Java :)
16:42:14 <rzolf> don't support java.
16:42:33 <rzolf> java deserves to die.
16:42:55 <rzolf> java has caused me nothing but pain and  heartache.
16:42:56 <talli_> long live C#!
16:42:59 <denshi> huh.  skud works on reefknot.
16:43:13 <talli_> there's a musician named Elliot Sharp who signs his emails E#
16:43:17 <rzolf> i looked at some .NET api stuff. it has built in form validation
16:43:22 <rzolf> eliot sharp is ok.
16:43:40 <rbm> talli_: I think you should focus on supporting one scripting language. When other people see the usefullness of momentum, they'll take care of adding the bindings for other libraries.
16:43:46 <talli_> he's into freak noise now, but i guess he's also an extremely talented musician otherwise
16:43:55 <talli_> rbm: you're right
16:44:00 <rbm> talli_: Unless you want to coordinate the bindings effort too
16:44:17 <rzolf> i saw eliot sharp play with that drummer guy.
16:44:21 <talli_> but i imginae things should be architected from the beginning so that it's not a massive PITA to do so
16:44:35 <talli_> rzolf: joey baron?
16:44:51 <rzolf> no
16:44:55 <rzolf> the noisy one.
16:44:56 <talli_> eliot sharp has an album with an israeli poet named Ronny Someck
16:45:05 <talli_> the noisy drummer...
16:45:10 <rzolf> the black guy who can't keep a beat.
16:45:12 <davb> rbm: you have used tclpro correct?
16:45:15 <talli_> haha
16:45:21 <rzolf> i forgot his name.
16:45:22 <talli_> don't know him. rasheed ali?
16:45:23 <denshi> talli_, if you keep things threadsafe and sane than adding a scripting language isn't too difficult.
16:45:29 <rzolf> he used to play at the knitting factory all the time.
16:45:43 <talli_> is it rasheed ali?
16:45:48 <rzolf> no.
16:45:58 <talli_> hmm... dunno
16:45:58 <denshi> and once you've written your app to transfer control to the scripting loop already, the hardest part (flow of control) is solved.
16:46:07 <talli_> denshi: ah, ok
16:46:22 <denshi> oh, and add continuations.
16:46:27 <talli_> well, it seems that since reefknot already exists, it can be used pretty effectively as the intiial scripting language
16:47:10 <davb> how much of your problem does reefknot solve? it looks like they are least planned on writing a server.
16:47:24 <talli_> i dunno
16:47:43 <rbm> davb: yes
16:47:43 <davb> ah.
16:47:50 <davb> rbm: it only runs in X?
16:47:57 <rbm> davb: I think so.
16:48:22 <davb> darnies
16:48:30 <davb> oh well, i will have to wait until I get home.
16:49:11 <rbm> davb: you on windoze?
16:49:16 <davb> yeah.
16:49:27 <davb> 98
16:49:32 <rbm> davb: It's a Tk app, so it'll run on Windows if you have the Tcl interpreter
16:49:45 <davb> oh yeah.
16:50:09 <davb> I am going to use it for TclSOAP though, so I need AOLServer etc. that does not run to well on win98.
16:50:20 <davb> I guess I'll have to do some work instead.
16:50:39 <rzolf> william hooker
16:52:18 <talli_> ah, william hooker
16:52:33 <talli_> my bro went to see a show of his the other night and said it was unbearable noise
16:53:02 <rzolf> yeah it sucks. (IMO)
16:53:23 <rbm> I should have gone to one of the photography shops in Boston :-(
16:53:47 <rbm> Or maybe I shouldn't, because I would certainly have spent money I really shouldn't spend :)
16:53:56 <rzolf> rbm: there aren't really any good ones there.
16:54:04 <rbm> rzolf: oh, okay.
16:54:22 <rzolf> there are a couple funky ones, for buying weird used cameras.
16:54:35 <rzolf> but for new good stuff, nothing special.
16:55:02 <rzolf> mail.app is totally buggy.
16:56:50 <denshi> rzolf, seen docwolf lately?
16:57:17 <rzolf> nope.
16:58:11 <denshi> so you ditched the florida lifestyle?
16:58:21 <rzolf> no.
16:58:30 <rzolf> i just can't bear to look at him anymore.
16:58:36 <rzolf> but i think he is still here.
16:58:39 <rbm> rzolf: I saw the pictures of your trip to Cape Canaveral
16:58:40 <rzolf> i can hear him.
16:59:39 <rzolf> it was fun.
17:01:02 <rbm> It's a cool place. I saw the space shuttle launch from there in 1996. It was cool to feel the ground shaking under me
17:01:24 <rzolf> i hope to see a shuttle launch at some time.
17:01:31 <rbm> It was at night, so you could just see this huge ball of fire going up
17:01:48 <denshi> I must've missed those.  I'm looking at your pictures of .jp.
17:02:46 <rzolf> this isn't that funny, but... "heh":
17:02:49 <rzolf> http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/diet.fitness/04/25/atkins.diet/index.html
17:02:49 <oacs-chump> C: http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/diet.fitness/04/25/atkins.diet/index.html from rzolf
17:05:54 <denshi> talli, any pointers on oacs social design?
17:07:01 <denshi> I mean, besides the mutated killer mosquitos.
17:07:02 <rzolf> can i see a requirements analysis on the oacs social.
17:08:28 <davb> rzolf: food. beer. nerds.
17:09:56 <denshi> davb: & leather.
17:14:02 <rzolf> rzolf has quit ("rzolf has no reason")
17:21:23 <sash> sash (~saras@213-48-145-242.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs
17:21:36 <sash> sash has left #openacs
17:29:24 <Thursdayphylax> I need someone to take everything away from me
17:29:46 <rbm> * rbm cleans Thursdayphylax's bank account
17:30:44 <Thursdayphylax> heh
17:30:51 <rbm> * rbm leaves for campus
17:30:51 <Thursdayphylax> You can have the checking
17:30:55 <Thursdayphylax> but the savings isn't mine
17:32:46 <Thursdayphylax> It's mark's
17:32:55 <Thursdayphylax> I use it to replenish my cookie supply
17:33:50 <denshi> I'll take your computers for you.
17:35:25 <denshi> any particular reason you're becoming a hermit?
17:35:46 <davb> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/
17:35:46 <oacs-chump> D: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/ from davb
17:35:58 <davb> D:|Pyrex - a Language for Writing Python Extension Modules
17:35:58 <oacs-chump> titled item D
17:36:17 <denshi> http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20020424/evans_01.htm
17:36:17 <oacs-chump> E: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20020424/evans_01.htm from denshi
17:36:28 <denshi> E: "Implementing Wittgenstein"
17:36:28 <oacs-chump> added comment E1
17:36:40 <denshi> E: game AI; light on math.
17:36:40 <oacs-chump> added comment E2
17:37:11 <Thursdayphylax> Things are not worth themselves
17:38:01 <Thursdayphylax> just thing about that
17:38:03 <Thursdayphylax> we buy stuff
17:38:12 <Thursdayphylax> to throw it out later...and get bigger and better stuff
17:45:00 <yzzyx> yzzyx (~saras@213-48-145-242.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs
17:47:53 <denshi> phylax, that's just a lifestyle choice.  you can go minimalist and stay there; I have.
17:52:52 <Thursdayphylax> yeah I think I'm going to do that
17:52:56 <Thursdayphylax> Today I woke up
17:53:08 <Thursdayphylax> looked around my room and realized I just have too much crap taking up too much space
17:53:30 <denshi> a good metric is how much you take with you when you travel.
17:53:37 <yzzyx> yzzyx has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:54:08 <davb> nintendo is going to spend 200 euros per gamecube for marketing. and sell the things for 250 euros.
17:54:21 <Thursdayphylax> idiots
17:54:47 <davb> hopefully they will sell lots of games and accessories.
17:55:06 <denshi> everyone of which they themselves make and publish.
17:55:14 <Thursdayphylax> Well
17:55:37 <vinod> vinod (~vinod@209-122-234-217.s2281.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
17:55:43 <denshi> vinod!
17:55:43 <Thursdayphylax> They could just lower the price for the gamecube to 75 euros and spend 25 euros for marketing
17:55:47 <vinod> denshi!
17:55:59 <vinod> i had a guinness for you (or was it 2?)
17:56:11 <denshi> I dunno, I wasn't counting.
17:56:31 <davb> hi vinod
17:56:48 <vinod> hey davb 
17:56:52 <denshi> davb, did you see: http://cube.ign.com/articles/357/357591p1.html
17:57:52 <davb> now I did :)
17:57:59 <davb> I don't even play the things anyway.
17:58:15 <davb> Nintendo needs an SMS/Cell phone attachement for the GBA. then they will be rich.
17:58:37 <davb> denshi, want to be a game programmer?
17:59:05 <denshi> I did up until a few months ago and realized that I haven't had time to play games in months.
17:59:16 <denshi> so I can't figure out who else could be playing.
17:59:29 <davb> they are out there.
17:59:43 <denshi> my theory is that the game industry will collapse in a year when everyone realizes the only people still playing are the reviewers.
18:00:21 <denshi> it'll be dot.coms all over again.
18:00:45 <denshi> osaka will be an economic scorched hole in the ground.
18:01:07 <Thursdayphylax> yeah
18:01:11 <Thursdayphylax> I don't play games anymore
18:01:14 <Thursdayphylax> Actively that is
18:02:07 <davb> i don't think that will happen.
18:02:28 <denshi> for awhile I've wanted to build a MMORPG server framework, since I haven't met a game programmer yet who understands RDBMS, but then, I've never played a MMORPG, so what the hell do I know?
18:02:36 <davb> well, there might be a  consolidation, but i think there will always be video games.
18:03:09 <davb> not that I play. I am too busy. I stopped buying games a couple of years ago.
18:03:24 <davb> hey. game jobs in my area.
18:04:04 <denshi> what area?
18:04:47 <davb> albany, ny
18:04:59 <davb> there is ONE game company around here.
18:05:22 <davb> I think after my BS in CS I will get a BA in graphic design or something.
18:06:24 <denshi> doing games would be cool.  games are the hardest programming field in the industry.
18:06:24 <Thursdayphylax> denshi what's a MMORPG?
18:07:21 <denshi> *phylax: "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game".  ie, a way to seperate gamers from their cash on a recurring basis.  Think 'Everquest'.
18:07:24 <davb> ah. I saw some jobs in Austin over at gamasutra.
18:07:53 <davb> cvs question: i have my cvsroot etc specified in my .bash_profile for openacs.org
18:08:18 <davb> If I check out stuff from somewhere else, I need to specify the server and directory when I do cvs update?
18:09:38 <vinod> davb: just the first time you checkout. after that the server will be in the special CVS files in that dir, so you can just do 'cvs update'
18:09:57 <denshi> vinod is right, unless the profile overrides something.
18:10:38 <davb> hmmm. didn't work.
18:11:58 <denshi> time for lunch.
18:11:59 <denshi> bbiaw
18:14:33 <vinod> davb: does the CVS/Root file in the dir point to the proper server?
18:14:40 <davb> didn't look :)
18:15:37 <davb> ah, there isn't a CVS directory
18:15:43 <davb> weird.
18:41:49 <davb> argh, i think I found a bug i perpetrated on acs-content-repository. only affects static-pages.
18:42:41 <davb> nm
18:42:48 <davb> phew, that was close :)
18:44:09 <davb> aigh, i'm so confused 
18:44:28 <vinod> now you know how i feel most days :-)
18:44:42 <davb> i haven't looked at this stuff in a long time.
18:44:47 <davb> its an ugly hack.
18:45:10 <davb> i _REALLY_ wish the pgsql guysw would up the default # of parameters for pl/pgsql to 32.
18:45:29 <davb> either that or we should ditribute with the packages a version that is compiled for 32.
18:46:05 <vinod> davb: yeah those overloaded functions are ugly
18:46:23 <talli_> hey guys, has anyone taken a look at GNUenterprise?
18:46:30 <talli_> have i asked that already?
18:46:30 <davb> ah, looks like the code I was questioning was copied from the other function.
18:46:40 <davb> never heard of it.
18:46:52 <vinod> talli_: no. i was reading an oacs thread about it the other day, though
18:47:10 <talli_> where was that?
18:47:16 <talli_> i'll do a search
18:47:29 <davb> no not that!
18:47:30 <davb> heh
18:49:14 <vinod> it's mixed in this thread: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0001Oc
18:50:59 <davb> what printers do you guys have working under linux?
18:51:56 <davb> of it
18:51:56 <davb> <walloper> <lilo> This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network.  These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information.  To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'.  On most clients: '/mode <yournick> -w'.  Thanks.
18:51:58 <davb> argh
18:52:06 <davb> http://www.lprng.com/PrintingCookbook/index.html
18:52:07 <oacs-chump> F: http://www.lprng.com/PrintingCookbook/index.html from davb
18:52:16 <davb> F:|The Printing Cookbook 
18:52:16 <oacs-chump> titled item F
18:52:21 <davb> F: from lprng.com
18:52:21 <oacs-chump> added comment F1
18:52:40 <vinod> davb: i use a hp842 inkjet
18:54:10 <davb> argh. it almost works.
18:54:17 <davb> the cookbook is very good by the way
18:54:52 <vinod> * vinod thinks printers are too filling. prefers cookies
18:57:30 <talli_> hey guys
18:57:54 <talli_> i've got one of the heads of the GNUenterprise project who wouldl ike to discuss some collaboration between GNUe and OACS
18:58:18 <talli_> can someone join us in #GNUe? i'd really appreciate it
18:58:28 <talli_> davb, denshi, vinod ?
18:58:47 <talli_> rbm?
18:58:47 <paje> it has been said that rbm is Roberto, http://www.brasileiro.net/
18:58:54 <talli_> heeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllooooooooooo?
18:59:05 <talli_> now you're all hiding?
18:59:09 <talli_> for chrissakes!
19:00:57 <davb> this is probably a problem: Warning - lp: cannot open lp device '/dev/lp1' - No such device
19:03:21 <markd2> markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-087.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
19:05:47 <Thursdayphylax> * Thursdayphylax gives out all of his cookies
19:06:03 <markd2> yay!
19:06:38 <vinod> * vinod pouts in the corner as markd2 eats all the cookies
19:06:46 <markd2> * markd2 saved a couple
19:06:48 <markd2> here, have one
19:07:24 <vinod> thanks!
19:07:34 <davb> woohoo
19:07:41 <davb> checkpc -f does not return any errors.
19:07:49 <Thursdayphylax> does checkcookie -f?
19:07:50 <davb> no way to know if its printing until I get home
19:07:58 <markd2> checkpc?
19:07:58 <Thursdayphylax> It should return false as I am out of cookies
19:08:07 <davb> part of lprng
19:08:19 <davb> check printcap
19:08:28 <Thursdayphylax> printcap: full of cookies
19:09:08 <davb> ohh, checkpc -V is nice
19:09:56 <davb> it checks to make sure your queue is setup right and the permissions are ok etc...
19:10:27 <markd2> printing is one thing I've thankfully managed to avoid for a long time
19:11:14 <davb> you just don't print ?
19:11:29 <markd2> nope
19:11:36 <markd2> the wife has a printer driven from Mac OS 9
19:11:48 <davb> ah.
19:11:58 <vinod> markd2 doesn't print - he just absorbs
19:12:05 <davb> actually this one is on the wife's machine shared in win98
19:12:13 <davb> I am trying to access it from samba.
19:12:19 <davb> i never got it working locally.
19:13:48 <markd2> paje, seen rzolf?
19:13:48 <paje> rzolf was last seen on #openacs 2 hours, 6 minutes and 45 seconds ago, saying: can i see a requirements analysis on the oacs social. [Thu Apr 25 11:07:43 2002]
19:13:55 <markd2> heh
19:16:53 <davb> ack: Status: lp: Update_status: no identifier for 'hfA799' at 14:56:08.272
19:16:53 <davb>  Filter_status: waiting for lp to become ready (offline ?)
19:17:47 <Thursdayphylax> paje seen Mondayphylax
19:17:47 <paje> Mondayphylax was last seen on #openacs 2 days, 5 hours, 9 minutes and 25 seconds ago, saying: w00t [Tue Apr 23 08:09:03 2002]
19:18:00 <Thursdayphylax> paje seen Fridayphylax
19:18:00 <paje> I haven't seen 'Fridayphylax', Thursdayphylax
19:18:05 <Thursdayphylax> you will tomorrow
19:20:04 <vinod> oacs-logger, grep Fridayphylax
19:20:33 <oacs-logger> I'm logging.  I found 4 answers for 'Fridayphylax'
19:20:34 <oacs-logger> 0) 2002-04-25 19:20:04 <vinod> oacs-logger, grep Fridayphylax
19:20:35 <oacs-logger> 1) 2002-04-25 19:18:00 <paje> I haven't seen 'Fridayphylax', Thursdayphylax
19:20:36 <oacs-logger> 2) 2002-04-25 19:18:00 <Thursdayphylax> paje seen Fridayphylax
19:20:37 <oacs-logger> 3) 2002-04-25 15:56:32 <markd2> * markd2 registers Fridayphylax
19:20:53 <Thursdayphylax> hmm?
19:20:53 <Thursdayphylax> wow neat
19:20:53 <Thursdayphylax> oacs-logger grep cookie
19:20:58 <markd2> danger
19:20:59 <vinod> looks like you'll have to wrestle that name from markd2 
19:21:05 <markd2> oacs-logger grep grep
19:21:55 <vinod> heh - i can smell loggy's cpu frying
19:22:11 <Thursdayphylax> * Thursdayphylax is good at breaking things
19:23:34 <Thursdayphylax> hmmm
19:23:38 <Thursdayphylax> where's my grep result
19:24:15 <Thursdayphylax> oacs-logger, grep midget
19:24:34 <oacs-logger> I'm logging.  I found 7 answers for 'midget' (showing 0...4)
19:24:35 <oacs-logger> 0) 2002-04-25 19:24:15 <Thursdayphylax> oacs-logger, grep midget
19:24:36 <oacs-logger> 1) 2002-03-27 05:41:26 <talli> i have many thoughts. some of them involve dragons and midgets, but mostly their about spiderman and how he stole my act
19:24:37 <oacs-logger> 2) 2001-12-11 01:49:50 <markd2> at least it didn'th ave things like "amputee midget women" or something
19:24:38 <oacs-logger> 3) 2001-11-28 14:44:21 <Psychephylax> midgets?
19:24:39 <oacs-logger> 4) 2001-11-05 01:36:22 <davb> psychemidgets.com is also available.
19:24:46 <Thursdayphylax> Did i overload him with my cookie request?
19:24:46 <markd2> oacs-logger grep -i Fridayphylax
19:25:38 <markd2> oacs-logger grep -i pants
19:25:40 <Thursdayphylax> oacs-logger, grep cookie
19:26:07 <oacs-logger> I'm logging.  I found 306 answers for 'cookie' (showing 0...4)
19:26:08 <oacs-logger> 0) 2002-04-25 19:25:40 <Thursdayphylax> oacs-logger, grep cookie
19:26:09 <oacs-logger> 1) 2002-04-25 19:24:46 <Thursdayphylax> Did i overload him with my cookie request?
19:26:10 <oacs-logger> 2) 2002-04-25 19:20:53 <Thursdayphylax> oacs-logger grep cookie
19:26:11 <oacs-logger> 3) 2002-04-25 19:08:28 <Thursdayphylax> printcap: full of cookies
19:26:12 <oacs-logger> 4) 2002-04-25 19:07:58 <Thursdayphylax> It should return false as I am out of cookies
19:26:19 <vinod> wow - this could get scary.
19:26:19 <vinod> results from november 2001?
19:26:24 <Thursdayphylax> hehehe
19:26:31 <Thursdayphylax> How do you make him show ALL the results?
19:27:22 <markd2> [3:24]  grep [-i] [first-last|max] <perl regex>  - Search the logs
19:28:04 <Aaron> Aaron (~aaronsw@63.149.73.20) has joined #openacs
19:28:05 <davb> aigh, do a /msg
19:28:17 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:29:07 <Aaron> Aaron is now known as AaronSw
19:30:33 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as AaroNSw
19:31:38 <AaroNSw> AaroNSw is now known as AaronSw
19:31:38 <markd2> [NSArron sw: cookies]
19:33:04 <talli_> talli_ is now known as talli
19:33:04 <vinod> vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:33:57 <talli> markd2: back away from the keyboard, slowly...
19:34:09 <talli> "go take a walk, you spaz"
19:34:09 <markd2> no!  can't make me!
19:37:25 <Thursdayphylax> * Thursdayphylax puts a cookie on the floor...come on mark...come on...*whistles*
19:37:37 <Thursdayphylax> follow the cookie trail! 
19:37:47 <Thursdayphylax> * Thursdayphylax puts out another cookie
19:38:18 <markd2> * markd2 follows the cookie trail
19:38:26 <markd2> * markd2 forgets that *phylax ran out of cookies
19:43:00 <Thursdayphylax> * Thursdayphylax bought another batch 
19:43:13 <markd2> yay!
19:46:57 <Thursdayphylax> anyone want a scsi Jaz Drive?
19:46:58 <Thursdayphylax> No media
19:47:00 <Thursdayphylax> no manual
19:47:05 <Thursdayphylax> just a bare drive...free
19:47:27 <davb> any idea if it works :) ?
19:47:37 <Thursdayphylax> nope
19:52:24 <denshi> you know, if you "grep -vi 'cookie'" through this chatlog, you would cut the size in half.
19:52:52 <markd2> that would destroy the #openacs cookie economy
19:53:49 <Thursdayphylax> Oh man
19:54:07 <Thursdayphylax> I can't believe it...I created a genuine cookie monster
19:54:09 <denshi> * denshi is all in favor of cookie economies.
19:55:21 <Thursdayphylax> * Thursdayphylax wonders when cookies will be an acceptable form of payment
20:06:41 <shagster> cookies?  Hell, I'll just keep the beer to myself then :)
20:07:05 <denshi> * denshi tackles shagster and takes his beer.
20:07:16 <denshi> what's a beer go for on the cookie market?
20:07:24 <shagster> beer thief! That is a capitol offense in Ohio you know!
20:14:13 <markd2> *everything* is a capitol offense in Ohio
20:14:43 <shagster> Is not, that is Texas ...
20:16:23 <markd2> heh
20:16:57 <Thursdayphylax> Mark is now the "Cookie Baron"
20:17:18 <denshi> I'll be the "Cookie Rancher"
20:17:41 <shagster> I'll be the town drunk! :)
20:17:42 <Thursdayphylax> i'm the cookie supplier
20:17:50 <Thursdayphylax> but now I have to go give stuff to my boss
20:18:54 <talli> shagster will be the town drunk who chases everyone's balls
20:19:36 <yzzyx> yzzyx (~saras@213-48-250-232.cro.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #openacs
20:20:01 <denshi> hey saras.  social still on?
20:21:06 <yzzyx> No. not much interest. Three people :(
20:21:15 <yzzyx> How can we get more?
20:21:22 <denshi> moving to boston?
20:21:31 <denshi> no, no wait.
20:21:41 <yzzyx> You book a charter.
20:22:28 <yzzyx> eh?
20:24:12 <yzzyx> I found a good place - BRB Bar @ 32 Gerrard Street
20:24:28 <denshi> you're in London?
20:24:37 <yzzyx> Yes, Wimbledon
20:24:43 <yzzyx> You?
20:24:44 <paje> somebody said You was god's gift to irc
20:24:55 <denshi> thanks paje
20:24:57 <yzzyx> eh?
20:25:17 <denshi> paje?
20:25:18 <paje> denshi?
20:25:24 <yzzyx> Is paje a bot?
20:25:28 <denshi> who is paje?
20:25:29 <paje> i think i am the medicine man and oracle in Amazonian tribes. I'm also a recipient of church of mike's "full deal" package or a pirate
20:25:46 <denshi> rbm keeps that a secret.
20:25:56 <yzzyx> I'm a minister of the Universal Life Church :?
20:26:13 <talli> yzzyx: i'll come to london and set up a social for you, if you'd like
20:26:19 <talli> it's part of my job requirement
20:26:29 <denshi> talli, you travel too much as it is.  send me.
20:26:37 <yzzyx> Wow.
20:26:39 <talli> denshi: up yours
20:27:03 <denshi> for a trip to london?  i'll consider it.
20:27:16 <yzzyx> Where is denshi based?
20:27:23 <denshi> Austin, TX.
20:27:57 <yzzyx> Hmm. Talli, what makes a good social?
20:28:06 <talli> beer. lots of it.
20:28:24 <denshi> and a minimum of pants.
20:28:25 <yzzyx> I'm not much of a socialite, hence the question.
20:29:09 <talli> yeah, neither am i, but it seems i'm the one that usually ends up being the socialite, or at least the ringleader
20:29:38 <yzzyx> Ah, travelling circuses/fairgrounds - that's an idea.
20:29:40 <davb> heh, ringleader is a good description
20:29:47 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("Bork")
20:30:16 <yzzyx> Where have the London ACS developers gone to?
20:33:00 <davb> openacs question: was it really a good idea to move so much of OpenACS into the database? ie. pl/sql
20:34:45 <shagster> Well, that was how it is written in ACS (I believe)
20:35:14 <shagster> talli, Once the local lug in Cleveland stops fighting each other, I was going to approach them about a Social in Cleveland
20:35:22 <davb> ok. I mean as opposed to ACS 3.
20:36:09 <talli> shagster: cool
20:36:12 <shagster> From my limited knowledge of it, aD thought that was the best thing to do for ACS 4, use oracle for as much as possible
20:36:28 <denshi> davb: in the future I'm going to be building websites with several languages talking to OACS schema databases.  So having things in PLpg/SQL makes that possible because so much error handling and advanced data definition in held in the DB.
20:36:50 <AaronSw> the rason they moved to the database was because they wanted to switch to java, i think
20:37:11 <talli> AaronSw: that's not true
20:37:22 <davb> denshi: ah. right. that makes sense.
20:37:24 <talli> they wanted to get out of the Db to move to Java
20:37:26 <shagster> From what I can gather , they wanted to move away from being web server specific
20:37:29 <denshi> otherwise I'd have to reimplement functions from Tcl to Ruby, LISP, etc where I'm also using the OACS schema.  (or expose tcl_eval and build tcl strings, etc).
20:37:31 <talli> persistence layer and so on
20:37:40 <AaronSw> oh? i remember reading some email bboard "we can choose tcl or oracle and we chose oracle"
20:38:50 <shagster> I really think (and this is just from reading the bboards and docs, etc) thet they wanted oralce do to everything and either use oracle's web server and simply make the web server nearly illrelavent
20:39:05 <talli> late davb
20:39:18 <davb> ah, just curious. very interesting stuff.
20:39:18 <davb> bbl
20:39:32 <davb> davb has quit ()
20:40:13 <shagster> I think after that they wanted to move to java, and things really started to get, well, foobar'd
20:42:06 <shagster> It would suprise me
20:42:29 <yzzyx> *flabbergasted*
20:42:52 <talli> it's called Use MIT's Oracle License
20:42:56 <shagster> Umm..wouldn't suprise me that is...
20:43:05 <yzzyx> :)
20:43:23 <yzzyx> Does anyone here use Oracle for clients?
20:43:47 <shagster> yes, but not for OpenACS :)
20:43:57 <talli> we don't
20:44:09 <talli> but Furfly surely does, for one
20:45:00 <shagster> Welp, I'm going to leave the office while the phones aren't ringing ;)
20:46:00 <denshi> hey shagster, what's your number?
20:47:23 <yzzyx> I recently came across an article to soup up Oracle: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=5840
21:12:53 <shagster> [to denshi]: Heh, I'm home now :)
21:13:21 <yzzyx> We tried to ring you.
21:13:49 <shagster> Sure, you want hosting no problem :)
21:14:53 <yzzyx> Hostessing more like.
21:15:28 <shagster> Hoserie?  I only do fishnet's
21:17:09 <yzzyx> Er. Can you entertain us in London next month?
21:17:20 <shagster> You can't afford me :)
21:17:33 <yzzyx> Who said anything about cost?
21:17:54 <yzzyx> Capitalist.
21:18:12 <shagster> Yep, that me me :)
21:18:19 <shagster> that be me even :)
21:18:50 <vinod> vinod (~vinod@207-172-216-210.s1226.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
21:19:28 <yzzyx> From what I understand, Vinod is the master.
21:19:34 <shagster> Its Dr. Vinod!
21:19:57 <yzzyx> Hula skirts and the like.
21:19:58 <vinod> uhoh
21:20:13 <vinod> yes. hula skirts and pirate stories are my domain
21:20:17 <yzzyx> Could teach shagster a thing or two.
21:20:37 <shagster> Hell, anybody could teach me a thing or two :)
21:20:38 <vinod> * vinod is too scared to teach shagster anything
21:20:46 <vinod> i value my "family jewels"
21:20:54 <shagster> Heh :)
21:21:14 <shagster> I'll never live that down :)
21:21:24 <yzzyx> Surely it is an affectionate epithet to call someone a fist pumping communard?
21:21:43 <denshi> maybe a fist pumping cosuard?
21:21:47 <yzzyx> As ESR so kindly described RMS
21:21:57 <yzzyx> i meant communard .
21:22:09 <shagster> ESR and RMS, what a couple
21:23:00 <yzzyx> What does cosuard mean?
21:23:12 <shagster> vinod, how ya been?
21:23:48 <vinod> pretty good. i'm preparing to move to nyc to be a full-time doc in july
21:24:58 <shagster> Ahh, looks like I"ll have to plan a NY trip some time this summer
21:25:38 <vinod> yes, yes. i'll stock up on beer, just in case
21:25:40 <denshi> yzzyx, I have no idea.  but I used to be on a mailing list about it 5 years ago.
21:26:46 <yzzyx> denshi: sysops against rate discrimination
21:29:06 <denshi> yzzyx: yeah, that's it.  unfortunately we all graduated and split.
21:33:49 <yzzyx> Hmm, I wish I was back at uni.
21:36:04 <yzzyx> Perhaps I'll go and study complexity at Sussex.
21:39:14 <vinod> i want to study simplicity
21:39:53 <yzzyx> One and the same, grasshopper.
21:40:00 <vinod> haha
21:41:51 <yzzyx> :)
21:51:24 <shagster> Mmm...college....
21:53:41 <denshi> denshi has quit ()
22:32:39 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
22:32:52 <denshi> paje, seen davb?
22:32:53 <paje> davb was last seen on #openacs 1 hours, 53 minutes and 33 seconds ago, saying: bbl [Thu Apr 25 14:39:59 2002]
22:33:18 <davb> davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
22:34:27 <yzzyx> Fortuitous timing.
22:34:34 <davb> hi
22:34:50 <denshi> davb, how do you color a border around a CSS <div> element?
22:34:57 <davb> * davb checks
22:35:35 <davb> border-color or
22:35:51 <davb> border: <width> <style> <color>
22:36:19 <vinod> he's better than a man page
22:36:24 <davb> heh
22:36:25 <denshi> hell yes.
22:36:37 <davb> http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/
22:36:37 <oacs-chump> G: http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/ from davb
22:36:43 <denshi> davb, mansnack.
22:36:46 <davb> i just google for css reference
22:36:59 <davb> mmmmmmmm......
22:37:10 <denshi> bbiam
22:37:21 <davb> that link has a great html and css reference
22:39:02 <davb> I really need to setup xena or some other bot so you can google from here
22:39:40 <davb> ok.
22:39:53 <davb> the aolserver docs say I need prodebug.tcl from the tclpro distribution.
22:40:05 <davb> there is no such file in the tclpro distribution. but aolserver comes with it.
22:40:51 <vinod> weird
22:41:15 <davb> well active state has a tarball binary. you can only get source from the CVS afaict
22:43:40 <davb> has anyone used tclpro with Tcl files in aolserver?
22:43:52 <vinod> i haven't
22:43:58 <davb> the docs just specify adps
22:44:07 <davb> ummm. 
22:44:11 <davb> ARHG!
22:44:13 <davb> it worked. no error.
22:44:40 <davb> no wait. it did error, but not to the browser.
22:47:44 <davb> if it only works with ADP I will go insane
22:48:24 <denshi> don't worry, in webdev insanity is a plus.
22:48:51 <vinod>  http://www.arsdigita.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg%5fid=0004ye&topic%5fid=175&topic=
22:48:52 <davb> ah, that is what I have been doing wrong. I shouldn't fight it.
22:48:56 <davb> that explains ALOT
22:50:37 <davb> http://evolt.org/article/Regular_Expression_Basics/20/22700/index.htm
22:50:38 <oacs-chump> H: http://evolt.org/article/Regular_Expression_Basics/20/22700/index.htm from davb
22:50:46 <davb> H:|Nice article on RegExps
22:50:46 <oacs-chump> titled item H
22:52:13 <denshi> regexps are easy
22:53:30 <denshi> you just recursively apply finer and finer precision patterns until you can pull out the right block.
22:56:54 <davb> aha:
22:56:59 <davb> http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/api/
22:57:00 <oacs-chump> I: http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/api/ from davb
22:57:30 <davb> the secret adp connect to tclpro proc
22:57:40 <davb> i am not sure where to put the tcl one.
22:57:48 <davb> * davb greps
23:00:07 <yzzyx> yzzyx has left #openacs
23:06:38 <davb> oh, it works nice for adp pages.
23:07:48 <davb> except it crashed aolserver...oops
23:08:56 <vinod> now that's a hard-working debugger. it even crashes for you, in case your code doesn't have any bugs
23:09:57 <davb> heh
23:10:06 <davb> i think my stack size it too small again
23:10:46 <davb> yep
23:10:49 <davb> duh
23:27:33 <denshi> ouch...
23:27:35 <denshi> http://www.whiskyshopusa.com/cgi-bin/whiskyshopusa.filereader?3cc88f4200f346b2273f0a0a0a0605fa+EN/products/935
23:27:36 <oacs-chump> J: http://www.whiskyshopusa.com/cgi-bin/whiskyshopusa.filereader?3cc88f4200f346b2273f0a0a0a0605fa+EN/products/935 from denshi
23:29:08 <davb> what site runs on postgresql? sourceforge?
23:46:32 <denshi> sf might still run on postgres
23:46:52 <denshi> they're moving stuff to oracle to impress the suits
23:49:34 <denshi> J: of course, the 40 yr costs $1500, but that apple of knowledge I have not yet tasted.
23:49:34 <oacs-chump> added comment J1
23:51:04 <davb> that is wacky
23:51:11 <davb> sf->oracle that is
23:58:05 <denshi> well, their biz model is selling sf to big dumb companies who can outsource their collaboration for $$$ per head.  Oracle rather than postgres makes sense.