00:57:55 <hazmat> hmm.. looking at the open-msg site... how are they not in gpl violation?
00:58:13 <hazmat> they have taken the openacs added some stuff, and distribute it...
01:04:47 <davb> * davb can never understand the rules with GPL
01:16:57 <jim> they have to distribute source, they cannot deny what they are allowed
01:18:25 <jim> well, probably... this is a script thing, and maybe GPL was made to deal with languages that compile and link
01:21:03 <davb> its tricky.
01:21:29 <davb> ie: can I write an openacs package that is not GPL?
01:22:22 <jim> one thing GPL never did that I know of, is require notification to author of change/redistribute, or require the change be sent to openacs
01:23:42 <jim> davb: maybe, if openacs is distributed in its entirety and includes modules added by distributor, 
01:24:03 <jim> -maybe- those modules must be GPL
01:24:21 <jim> but if distributed separately...
01:24:24 <jim> maybe not
01:25:25 <davb> yeah, that is what I thought
01:25:58 <jim> but people -are- probably writing openacs modules and not GPLing them
01:26:53 <jim> looking at ACS legacy, it would -seem- reasonable to do so
01:28:59 <davb> my theory was, if you write it once for one client, don't worry about it. if you reuse it, you should release the generic part of  it that is reusable.
01:29:52 <jim> I'd even add, that even if write-once, author should consider factoring
01:30:11 <davb> sure.
01:30:40 <davb> but realistically, businesses don't have the resources to do that. or rather don't want to use the resources for that/
01:31:22 <jim> ACS was increasingly that way
01:31:30 <davb> ah.
01:31:57 <jim> which meant that as time went on, the toolkit seemed to suffer more
01:32:16 <jim> (that's at least my perception as an outsider)
01:33:43 <davb> ah, so all the code was trapped in client projects, and never made it back to the toolkit.
01:33:48 <davb> then ACS 4.
01:33:59 <davb> and then ACS 4 Java
01:34:15 <davb> anyway. I need to track down this AOLserver/Tcllib wackiness
01:34:42 <jim> well, maybe increasing amounts... I kept hearing that client projects didn't have bugs that the toolkit did
01:35:19 <jim> ls
02:06:51 <rbm> if open-msg is extending the openacs datamodel in any way (which I think it is, if they are using the object system) then they must publish their changes
02:06:56 <rbm> (if they redistribute it)
02:43:41 <davb> good night
02:44:07 <davb> davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
04:51:26 <rbm> anyone awake?
04:51:28 <talli> talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:07:35 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  Need to move a couple of servers to try to clean up routing problems from earlier to day.  This should go quickly, but one is a very large server, so bear with us.
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12:34:58 <davb> hello
12:34:58 <paje> hi, davb
12:49:14 <davb> http://gondolin.hist.liv.ac.uk/~cheshire/tclgoogle.html
12:49:14 <oacs-chump> A: http://gondolin.hist.liv.ac.uk/~cheshire/tclgoogle.html from davb
12:49:21 <davb> A:|Google API for TclSOAP
12:49:22 <oacs-chump> titled item A
12:59:38 <localhost> localhost (proxy@ool-18baa8de.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs
12:59:47 <localhost> Morn-ing
13:00:04 <localhost> localhost is now known as Psychephylax
13:00:13 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax is now known as Mondayphylax
13:10:13 <Mondayphylax> paje seen davb
13:10:13 <paje> davb was last seen on #openacs 20 minutes and 51 seconds ago, saying: A:|Google API for TclSOAP [Mon Apr 22 06:50:02 2002]
13:10:45 <Mondayphylax> paje seen paje
13:10:45 <paje> I haven't seen 'paje', Mondayphylax
13:12:21 <davb> hiya Mondayphylax
13:24:55 <Mondayphylax> Hiya dave
13:29:29 <Mondayphylax> how was your weekend
13:32:19 <davb> not bad.
13:32:25 <Mondayphylax> Do anything fun?
13:32:32 <davb> mowed the lawn :)
13:33:39 <Mondayphylax> w00t
13:36:05 <Mondayphylax> I went fishing
13:36:09 <Mondayphylax> caught a squid...
13:36:57 <davb> interesting.
13:38:29 <Mondayphylax> yeah
13:38:33 <Mondayphylax> Odd...and interesting
13:41:14 <davb> did you keep it?>
13:42:16 <Mondayphylax> nah
13:42:38 <Mondayphylax> I don't know the regulations regarding Squid fishing 
13:42:39 <Mondayphylax> lol
13:42:47 <Mondayphylax> Plus, we had enough bait for the next time
13:45:17 <davb> ah,
13:47:54 <Mondayphylax> btw
13:48:08 <Mondayphylax> Never take girls on a boat when you actually want to fish
13:52:00 <markd2> markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-134.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
13:52:16 <Mondayphylax> Morning Mark
13:52:19 <davb> right.
13:52:22 <Mondayphylax> * Mondayphylax sneaks a cookie to mark
13:52:24 <markd2> hi
13:52:28 <markd2> mmmm.. thanky
13:53:11 <Mondayphylax> :-D
14:21:19 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("Bork")
15:03:09 <barstool> barstool is now known as talli
15:04:35 <talli> anyone know who the sexiest bot in this room is?
15:06:48 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-161.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
15:07:33 <Mondayphylax> Me me me
15:07:38 <Mondayphylax> I am Sex-bot
15:07:43 <Mondayphylax> Mondayphylax is now known as Sex-bot
15:07:55 <Sex-bot> oh wait....sexiest bot
15:08:04 <Sex-bot> Sex-bot is now known as Mondayphylax
15:08:18 <davb> hi talli
15:08:26 <Mondayphylax> * Mondayphylax hugs oacs-chump 
15:08:46 <talli> hey davb
15:11:09 <Mondayphylax> i hate mondays and fridays
15:11:21 <Mondayphylax> Those are the days I get in trouble the most for not doing work
15:12:20 <davb> Mondayphylax: you gotta learn to space out the goofing off.
15:12:32 <davb> at least _look_ like you are working on mondays
15:12:57 <davb> carry a binder and look like you have someplace to go
15:18:44 <Mondayphylax> hmmm
15:18:53 <Mondayphylax> i think I just need a government job
15:21:46 <davb> oh, well that is also what I do :)
15:23:13 <Mondayphylax> Dave, are they hiring?
15:25:06 <davb> nope, 
15:25:11 <davb> except programmers
15:25:35 <davb> with a BS you get ~$42k + 1200 location pay
15:25:50 <davb> but I think most of the jobs are in albany.
15:25:53 <Mondayphylax> That's ok
15:25:57 <Mondayphylax> I'm willing to travel
15:26:02 <Mondayphylax> and what a coincidence...
15:26:05 <Mondayphylax> I'm a programmer
15:26:11 <davb> yeah, that is why I mentioned it :)
15:26:17 <Mondayphylax> Dood
15:26:20 <Mondayphylax> Get me the info
15:26:51 <Mondayphylax> I'll fix up my resumee
15:26:56 <Mondayphylax> and send it to them
15:27:32 <davb> re corrupted, so they fuck up the os. crashed my finder a few times.
15:27:32 <davb> <Morbus> oh, and get FontBook from Lemkesoft.
15:27:32 <davb> <Morbus> it rocks.
15:27:32 <davb> <Morbus> suitcase is decent too for font managem
15:27:35 <davb> argh
15:27:36 <davb> heh
15:27:45 <davb> http://www.cs.state.ny.us/announ/cr_announcements/20-800.htm
15:27:45 <oacs-chump> B: http://www.cs.state.ny.us/announ/cr_announcements/20-800.htm from davb
15:27:50 <markd2> sounds macish
15:28:03 <davb> B:|New York State Compter Programmer/Analyst Application
15:28:03 <oacs-chump> titled item B
15:29:47 <davb> B: http://www.cs.state.ny.us/announ/applications/downloadourapps3.htm#Computer%20Programmer...
15:29:47 <oacs-chump> added comment B1
15:29:52 <davb> that is a weird url
15:30:02 <davb> argh
15:30:13 <davb> B: [you need this too|http://www.cs.state.ny.us/pdf/20-800&20-801.pdf]
15:30:13 <oacs-chump> added comment B2
15:33:41 <Mondayphylax> * Mondayphylax e-mails to his home
15:43:13 <davb> argh:
15:43:15 <davb> http://listserv.aol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0106&L=aolserver&P=R8139&X=70BCA627B5A3525605&Y=dave@thedesignexperience.org
15:43:15 <oacs-chump> C: http://listserv.aol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0106&L=aolserver&P=R8139&X=70BCA627B5A3525605&Y=dave@thedesignexperience.org from davb
15:43:42 <davb> C:|Variables in namespaces are not removed when a thread exits in AOLserver
15:43:43 <oacs-chump> titled item C
15:43:59 <davb> C: also, I hate the AOLserver list archive. noone will be able to read that link except me
15:44:00 <oacs-chump> added comment C1
15:48:45 <markd2> I read it
15:49:29 <davb> oh, cool
15:49:49 <davb> the weird thing is if I run the code from and ADP it works. from a tcl page, it does not.
15:51:33 <Mondayphylax> paje do math
15:51:33 <paje> Mondayphylax: excuse me?
15:51:36 <Mondayphylax> 2 + 2
15:51:46 <markd2> you need more digits to get automatic math
15:51:50 <markd2> paje: 2 + 2
15:51:50 <paje> 4
15:51:53 <markd2> 2.0 + 2.0
15:51:54 <paje> 4
15:52:00 <markd2> 2 + 2 + 0 + 0 + 0
15:52:00 <paje> 4
15:52:04 <markd2> 2 + 2
15:52:25 <Mondayphylax> paje: ham + cheese
15:52:26 <paje> Mondayphylax: sorry...
15:52:37 <Mondayphylax> stupid paje...it's a sandwhich!
15:52:40 <davb> hmmmm
15:52:52 <davb> it doesn't even work on a restarted server: rror: variable "errorCode" already\
15:52:52 <davb>  exists
15:52:52 <davb> variable "errorCode" already exists
15:52:52 <davb>     while executing
15:52:52 <davb> "global errorCode errorInfo"
15:52:52 <davb>     (procedure "ns_sourceproc" line 13)
15:52:54 <davb>     invoked from within
15:52:56 <davb> "ns_sourceproc cns0 {}"
15:55:20 <davb> apparently the tcl version is throwing an error, but causes an error in displaying the error :)
16:00:07 <Mondayphylax> LOL
16:00:21 <Mondayphylax> What do you expect
16:00:23 <Mondayphylax> it's a monday
16:00:29 <davb> ah. i hacked file.tcl to make it work.
16:00:52 <davb> but it doesn't display the output to my connection...
16:01:14 <davb> the ns_puts are not putting. works fine in ADP
16:13:17 <Mondayphylax> oh so sleepy
16:27:17 <markd2> ns_sleep
16:28:02 <Mondayphylax> * Mondayphylax falls asleep
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16:36:20 <davb> hi denshi
16:36:41 <davb> why, oh why is the tcl interpreter working differently for ADP than TCL files? 
16:36:43 <denshi> hey davb. what's new?
16:36:49 <markd2> be vewwy qwiet
16:36:53 <markd2> *phylax is sleeping
16:36:57 <denshi> davb: scoping?
16:37:03 <davb> apparently.
16:37:15 <davb> but that seems a wacky way to program it.
16:37:27 <davb> I kinda hoping it works in AOLserver 4.
16:38:48 <davb> ie: the environment variable tcl_libaray exists in an ADP page, but not a Tcl page.
16:40:00 <davb> actually its something different, but the concept is the same :)
16:41:45 <denshi> anyone ever tried to use MacPerl?
16:42:40 <davb> not me.
16:42:52 <denshi> mark?
16:42:53 <paje> mark is probably the Cookie Monster
16:43:05 <paje> denshi: sorry...
16:45:06 <markd2> nope
16:47:02 <denshi> I am at a loss for how to talk to the OS9 filesystem.
16:51:36 <denshi> I think it's written by paje in esperanto - the pirate dialect.
16:56:40 <markd2> arrrrrrrr
16:57:58 <denshi> it has many swquaking parrot -based operators.
17:17:32 <Mondayphylax> mmm
17:17:33 <Mondayphylax> lunch
17:24:02 <davb> ohhh, Jeff Hobbs has been working on the aolserver/tcl stuff
17:41:00 <davb> ah... namespace export is used all over tcllib, but is a no-no for aolserver due to aolserver/namespace wackiness
17:42:20 <davb> * davb is not in the mood to rewrite aolserver...
17:51:00 <davb> ok. I am getting annoyed.
17:51:21 <davb> maybe its tcldom or something, tcllib and tclSOAP do not appear to be stepping on aolserver...
18:02:50 <talli> talli has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:13:55 <davb> the error message is definitely coming from Tcl
18:17:14 <davb> looks like I will need to hook up a debugger and compare how the ADP goes to the TCL to see what is different under the hood.
18:30:14 <davb> hmmm. my test.tcl hangs when I run aolserver under gdb
18:33:26 <davb> John Robb says MIT/Sloan should use Radio Userland
18:35:41 <davb> argh
18:35:58 <davb> that's it. I need someone who knows what they are doing.
18:36:02 <davb> :)
18:38:54 <markd2> John Robb?
18:39:26 <davb> guy works for Userland.
18:39:33 <markd2> heh
18:39:40 <markd2> unbiased opinion there :-)
18:39:56 <davb> pretty smart, but often annoying because he can't talk about anything without working in an angle to see his stuff.
18:40:33 <davb> brb: reboot
18:40:36 <davb> davb has quit ()
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19:00:37 <jim> the sharps and flats parts of my key sig drill are done :)
19:00:47 <markd2> a Major victory
19:01:04 <davb> great.
19:01:15 <AaronSw> :-)
19:01:17 <jim> yeah :) and a refactoring victory too
19:01:47 <jim> * jim 's theory teacher says: do minor keys too
19:01:55 <jim> * jim says: I'll get to it :)
19:02:21 <AaronSw> anybody who's going to the social tomorrow: i probably won't make it, but i think i'll be hanging out at the student center beforehand. http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/bostonTrip
19:06:38 <davb> * davb makes a note
19:20:50 <Mondayphylax> There's another ACS social tomorrow?
19:20:52 <Mondayphylax> Where and what time
19:21:27 <Mondayphylax> Oh
19:21:35 <Mondayphylax> Massachussets
19:21:41 <Mondayphylax> That's a wee far for me
19:32:56 <davb> not by plane :)
19:34:31 <Mondayphylax> heh
19:34:35 <Mondayphylax> I'm in debt
19:34:49 <Mondayphylax> So unless I get that high paying do nothing job for the goverment I'm stuck in NY for a while
19:35:39 <davb> ah :(
19:45:13 <Mondayphylax> But I have a new computer to break! yay!
19:45:34 <markd2> woot!
19:45:47 <Mondayphylax> w00t
19:45:55 <Mondayphylax> * Mondayphylax gives mark an image of a cookie
19:46:12 <markd2> * markd2 xeroxes the cookie
19:46:26 <Mondayphylax> Mmmmm
19:46:29 <Mondayphylax> That's cheating
19:46:37 <Mondayphylax> * Mondayphylax wrestles away the Xeroxes
19:46:45 <markd2> * markd2 prays to the Greek God Xeroxes
19:46:47 <Mondayphylax> * Mondayphylax stuffs them in his mouth
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20:12:40 <denshi> http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df200105/df20010528.jpg
20:12:41 <oacs-chump> D: http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df200105/df20010528.jpg from denshi
20:13:19 <markd2> heh
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21:59:24 <jkhong> lsof lists a lot of open files that belong to nsd. Is there a way for me to say "Check and close any open files every 5 minutes" in Aolserver? The files are already deleted in the filesystem.
22:01:31 <markd2> what kind of files?
22:03:49 <jkhong> temp files. Dynamically generated charts, but somehow I can't "close" them, so they pile up until it the server stops responding.
22:04:12 <markd2> are you manually opening these files?
22:04:50 <jkhong> I'm creating those files dynamically, but saving them to a temp file and then opening them again (that was before I discovered ns_returnbinary :)
22:05:46 <markd2> are you doing these in a seperate thread, or just in whatever thread the connection is being handled with ?
22:05:59 <markd2> the files should be automatically being closed when the connection closes
22:05:59 <jkhong> I've changed almost all the charts to be returned using ns_returnbinary, but there are a few more that are reused in pdfs -- can't change those.
22:06:28 <jkhong> I don't think they are created in separate threads.
22:06:46 <markd2> ok
22:06:47 <jkhong> The files are only closed when I restart nsd -- not a very good solution! :)
22:07:05 <markd2> they should be getting closed automagically, so there must be something weird going on somewhere
22:08:20 <jkhong> hm... that's not good. They are deleted though. Any idea what might cause them not to be deleted?
22:08:38 <jkhong> sorry, I meant closed. Cause them not to close.
22:08:51 <markd2> not off the top of my head
22:08:58 <markd2> the 'open, delete' idiom is pretty standard
22:09:05 <markd2> maybe try the aolserver.com mailing list
22:09:14 <markd2> or if denshi or davb wake up :-)
22:09:19 <markd2> I gotta go to band now
22:09:20 <markd2> good luck
22:09:26 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
22:10:50 <jkhong> Thanks anyway! HAve fun! :)
22:14:50 <jkhong> jkhong has quit ("Client Exiting")
23:28:54 <denshi> paje, again!
23:28:54 <paje> * paje spanks talli
23:30:16 <denshi> denshi has quit ()