IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:57:55 [hazmat]
hmm.. looking at the open-msg site... how are they not in gpl violation?
00:58:13 [hazmat]
they have taken the openacs added some stuff, and distribute it...
01:04:47 [davb]
* davb can never understand the rules with GPL
01:16:57 [jim]
they have to distribute source, they cannot deny what they are allowed
01:18:25 [jim]
well, probably... this is a script thing, and maybe GPL was made to deal with languages that compile and link
01:21:03 [davb]
its tricky.
01:21:29 [davb]
ie: can I write an openacs package that is not GPL?
01:22:22 [jim]
one thing GPL never did that I know of, is require notification to author of change/redistribute, or require the change be sent to openacs
01:23:42 [jim]
davb: maybe, if openacs is distributed in its entirety and includes modules added by distributor,
01:24:03 [jim]
-maybe- those modules must be GPL
01:24:21 [jim]
but if distributed separately...
01:24:24 [jim]
maybe not
01:25:25 [davb]
yeah, that is what I thought
01:25:58 [jim]
but people -are- probably writing openacs modules and not GPLing them
01:26:53 [jim]
looking at ACS legacy, it would -seem- reasonable to do so
01:28:59 [davb]
my theory was, if you write it once for one client, don't worry about it. if you reuse it, you should release the generic part of it that is reusable.
01:29:52 [jim]
I'd even add, that even if write-once, author should consider factoring
01:30:11 [davb]
sure.
01:30:40 [davb]
but realistically, businesses don't have the resources to do that. or rather don't want to use the resources for that/
01:31:22 [jim]
ACS was increasingly that way
01:31:30 [davb]
ah.
01:31:57 [jim]
which meant that as time went on, the toolkit seemed to suffer more
01:32:16 [jim]
(that's at least my perception as an outsider)
01:33:43 [davb]
ah, so all the code was trapped in client projects, and never made it back to the toolkit.
01:33:48 [davb]
then ACS 4.
01:33:59 [davb]
and then ACS 4 Java
01:34:15 [davb]
anyway. I need to track down this AOLserver/Tcllib wackiness
01:34:42 [jim]
well, maybe increasing amounts... I kept hearing that client projects didn't have bugs that the toolkit did
01:35:19 [jim]
ls
02:06:51 [rbm]
if open-msg is extending the openacs datamodel in any way (which I think it is, if they are using the object system) then they must publish their changes
02:06:56 [rbm]
(if they redistribute it)
02:43:41 [davb]
good night
02:44:07 [davb]
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04:51:26 [rbm]
anyone awake?
04:51:28 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:07:35 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Need to move a couple of servers to try to clean up routing problems from earlier to day. This should go quickly, but one is a very large server, so bear with us.
05:07:58 [oacs-chump]
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05:07:58 [hazmat]
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05:08:46 [hazmat]
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12:32:57 [davb]
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12:34:58 [davb]
hello
12:34:58 [paje]
hi, davb
12:49:14 [davb]
http://gondolin.hist.liv.ac.uk/~cheshire/tclgoogle.html
12:49:14 [oacs-chump]
A: http://gondolin.hist.liv.ac.uk/~cheshire/tclgoogle.html from davb
12:49:21 [davb]
A:|Google API for TclSOAP
12:49:22 [oacs-chump]
titled item A
12:59:38 [localhost]
localhost (proxy@ool-18baa8de.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs
12:59:47 [localhost]
Morn-ing
13:00:04 [localhost]
localhost is now known as Psychephylax
13:00:13 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax is now known as Mondayphylax
13:10:13 [Mondayphylax]
paje seen davb
13:10:13 [paje]
davb was last seen on #openacs 20 minutes and 51 seconds ago, saying: A:|Google API for TclSOAP [Mon Apr 22 06:50:02 2002]
13:10:45 [Mondayphylax]
paje seen paje
13:10:45 [paje]
I haven't seen 'paje', Mondayphylax
13:12:21 [davb]
hiya Mondayphylax
13:24:55 [Mondayphylax]
Hiya dave
13:29:29 [Mondayphylax]
how was your weekend
13:32:19 [davb]
not bad.
13:32:25 [Mondayphylax]
Do anything fun?
13:32:32 [davb]
mowed the lawn :)
13:33:39 [Mondayphylax]
w00t
13:36:05 [Mondayphylax]
I went fishing
13:36:09 [Mondayphylax]
caught a squid...
13:36:57 [davb]
interesting.
13:38:29 [Mondayphylax]
yeah
13:38:33 [Mondayphylax]
Odd...and interesting
13:41:14 [davb]
did you keep it?>
13:42:16 [Mondayphylax]
nah
13:42:38 [Mondayphylax]
I don't know the regulations regarding Squid fishing
13:42:39 [Mondayphylax]
lol
13:42:47 [Mondayphylax]
Plus, we had enough bait for the next time
13:45:17 [davb]
ah,
13:47:54 [Mondayphylax]
btw
13:48:08 [Mondayphylax]
Never take girls on a boat when you actually want to fish
13:52:00 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-134.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
13:52:16 [Mondayphylax]
Morning Mark
13:52:19 [davb]
right.
13:52:22 [Mondayphylax]
* Mondayphylax sneaks a cookie to mark
13:52:24 [markd2]
hi
13:52:28 [markd2]
mmmm.. thanky
13:53:11 [Mondayphylax]
:-D
14:21:19 [markd2]
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15:03:09 [barstool]
barstool is now known as talli
15:04:35 [talli]
anyone know who the sexiest bot in this room is?
15:06:48 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-161.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
15:07:33 [Mondayphylax]
Me me me
15:07:38 [Mondayphylax]
I am Sex-bot
15:07:43 [Mondayphylax]
Mondayphylax is now known as Sex-bot
15:07:55 [Sex-bot]
oh wait....sexiest bot
15:08:04 [Sex-bot]
Sex-bot is now known as Mondayphylax
15:08:18 [davb]
hi talli
15:08:26 [Mondayphylax]
* Mondayphylax hugs oacs-chump
15:08:46 [talli]
hey davb
15:11:09 [Mondayphylax]
i hate mondays and fridays
15:11:21 [Mondayphylax]
Those are the days I get in trouble the most for not doing work
15:12:20 [davb]
Mondayphylax: you gotta learn to space out the goofing off.
15:12:32 [davb]
at least _look_ like you are working on mondays
15:12:57 [davb]
carry a binder and look like you have someplace to go
15:18:44 [Mondayphylax]
hmmm
15:18:53 [Mondayphylax]
i think I just need a government job
15:21:46 [davb]
oh, well that is also what I do :)
15:23:13 [Mondayphylax]
Dave, are they hiring?
15:25:06 [davb]
nope,
15:25:11 [davb]
except programmers
15:25:35 [davb]
with a BS you get ~$42k + 1200 location pay
15:25:50 [davb]
but I think most of the jobs are in albany.
15:25:53 [Mondayphylax]
That's ok
15:25:57 [Mondayphylax]
I'm willing to travel
15:26:02 [Mondayphylax]
and what a coincidence...
15:26:05 [Mondayphylax]
I'm a programmer
15:26:11 [davb]
yeah, that is why I mentioned it :)
15:26:17 [Mondayphylax]
Dood
15:26:20 [Mondayphylax]
Get me the info
15:26:51 [Mondayphylax]
I'll fix up my resumee
15:26:56 [Mondayphylax]
and send it to them
15:27:32 [davb]
re corrupted, so they fuck up the os. crashed my finder a few times.
15:27:32 [davb]
<Morbus> oh, and get FontBook from Lemkesoft.
15:27:32 [davb]
<Morbus> it rocks.
15:27:32 [davb]
<Morbus> suitcase is decent too for font managem
15:27:35 [davb]
argh
15:27:36 [davb]
heh
15:27:45 [davb]
http://www.cs.state.ny.us/announ/cr_announcements/20-800.htm
15:27:45 [oacs-chump]
B: http://www.cs.state.ny.us/announ/cr_announcements/20-800.htm from davb
15:27:50 [markd2]
sounds macish
15:28:03 [davb]
B:|New York State Compter Programmer/Analyst Application
15:28:03 [oacs-chump]
titled item B
15:29:47 [davb]
B: http://www.cs.state.ny.us/announ/applications/downloadourapps3.htm#Computer%20Programmer...
15:29:47 [oacs-chump]
added comment B1
15:29:52 [davb]
that is a weird url
15:30:02 [davb]
argh
15:30:13 [davb]
B: [you need this too|http://www.cs.state.ny.us/pdf/20-800&20-801.pdf]
15:30:13 [oacs-chump]
added comment B2
15:33:41 [Mondayphylax]
* Mondayphylax e-mails to his home
15:43:13 [davb]
argh:
15:43:15 [davb]
http://listserv.aol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0106&L=aolserver&P=R8139&X=70BCA627B5A3525605&Y=dave@thedesignexperience.org
15:43:15 [oacs-chump]
C: http://listserv.aol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0106&L=aolserver&P=R8139&X=70BCA627B5A3525605&Y=dave@thedesignexperience.org from davb
15:43:42 [davb]
C:|Variables in namespaces are not removed when a thread exits in AOLserver
15:43:43 [oacs-chump]
titled item C
15:43:59 [davb]
C: also, I hate the AOLserver list archive. noone will be able to read that link except me
15:44:00 [oacs-chump]
added comment C1
15:48:45 [markd2]
I read it
15:49:29 [davb]
oh, cool
15:49:49 [davb]
the weird thing is if I run the code from and ADP it works. from a tcl page, it does not.
15:51:33 [Mondayphylax]
paje do math
15:51:33 [paje]
Mondayphylax: excuse me?
15:51:36 [Mondayphylax]
2 + 2
15:51:46 [markd2]
you need more digits to get automatic math
15:51:50 [markd2]
paje: 2 + 2
15:51:50 [paje]
4
15:51:53 [markd2]
2.0 + 2.0
15:51:54 [paje]
4
15:52:00 [markd2]
2 + 2 + 0 + 0 + 0
15:52:00 [paje]
4
15:52:04 [markd2]
2 + 2
15:52:25 [Mondayphylax]
paje: ham + cheese
15:52:26 [paje]
Mondayphylax: sorry...
15:52:37 [Mondayphylax]
stupid paje...it's a sandwhich!
15:52:40 [davb]
hmmmm
15:52:52 [davb]
it doesn't even work on a restarted server: rror: variable "errorCode" already\
15:52:52 [davb]
exists
15:52:52 [davb]
variable "errorCode" already exists
15:52:52 [davb]
while executing
15:52:52 [davb]
"global errorCode errorInfo"
15:52:52 [davb]
(procedure "ns_sourceproc" line 13)
15:52:54 [davb]
invoked from within
15:52:56 [davb]
"ns_sourceproc cns0 {}"
15:55:20 [davb]
apparently the tcl version is throwing an error, but causes an error in displaying the error :)
16:00:07 [Mondayphylax]
LOL
16:00:21 [Mondayphylax]
What do you expect
16:00:23 [Mondayphylax]
it's a monday
16:00:29 [davb]
ah. i hacked file.tcl to make it work.
16:00:52 [davb]
but it doesn't display the output to my connection...
16:01:14 [davb]
the ns_puts are not putting. works fine in ADP
16:13:17 [Mondayphylax]
oh so sleepy
16:27:17 [markd2]
ns_sleep
16:28:02 [Mondayphylax]
* Mondayphylax falls asleep
16:32:53 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
16:36:20 [davb]
hi denshi
16:36:41 [davb]
why, oh why is the tcl interpreter working differently for ADP than TCL files?
16:36:43 [denshi]
hey davb. what's new?
16:36:49 [markd2]
be vewwy qwiet
16:36:53 [markd2]
*phylax is sleeping
16:36:57 [denshi]
davb: scoping?
16:37:03 [davb]
apparently.
16:37:15 [davb]
but that seems a wacky way to program it.
16:37:27 [davb]
I kinda hoping it works in AOLserver 4.
16:38:48 [davb]
ie: the environment variable tcl_libaray exists in an ADP page, but not a Tcl page.
16:40:00 [davb]
actually its something different, but the concept is the same :)
16:41:45 [denshi]
anyone ever tried to use MacPerl?
16:42:40 [davb]
not me.
16:42:52 [denshi]
mark?
16:42:53 [paje]
mark is probably the Cookie Monster
16:43:05 [paje]
denshi: sorry...
16:45:06 [markd2]
nope
16:47:02 [denshi]
I am at a loss for how to talk to the OS9 filesystem.
16:51:36 [denshi]
I think it's written by paje in esperanto - the pirate dialect.
16:56:40 [markd2]
arrrrrrrr
16:57:58 [denshi]
it has many swquaking parrot -based operators.
17:17:32 [Mondayphylax]
mmm
17:17:33 [Mondayphylax]
lunch
17:24:02 [davb]
ohhh, Jeff Hobbs has been working on the aolserver/tcl stuff
17:41:00 [davb]
ah... namespace export is used all over tcllib, but is a no-no for aolserver due to aolserver/namespace wackiness
17:42:20 [davb]
* davb is not in the mood to rewrite aolserver...
17:51:00 [davb]
ok. I am getting annoyed.
17:51:21 [davb]
maybe its tcldom or something, tcllib and tclSOAP do not appear to be stepping on aolserver...
18:02:50 [talli]
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18:13:55 [davb]
the error message is definitely coming from Tcl
18:17:14 [davb]
looks like I will need to hook up a debugger and compare how the ADP goes to the TCL to see what is different under the hood.
18:30:14 [davb]
hmmm. my test.tcl hangs when I run aolserver under gdb
18:33:26 [davb]
John Robb says MIT/Sloan should use Radio Userland
18:35:41 [davb]
argh
18:35:58 [davb]
that's it. I need someone who knows what they are doing.
18:36:02 [davb]
:)
18:38:54 [markd2]
John Robb?
18:39:26 [davb]
guy works for Userland.
18:39:33 [markd2]
heh
18:39:40 [markd2]
unbiased opinion there :-)
18:39:56 [davb]
pretty smart, but often annoying because he can't talk about anything without working in an angle to see his stuff.
18:40:33 [davb]
brb: reboot
18:40:36 [davb]
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18:42:11 [davb]
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18:59:23 [AaronSw]
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19:00:37 [jim]
the sharps and flats parts of my key sig drill are done :)
19:00:47 [markd2]
a Major victory
19:01:04 [davb]
great.
19:01:15 [AaronSw]
:-)
19:01:17 [jim]
yeah :) and a refactoring victory too
19:01:47 [jim]
* jim 's theory teacher says: do minor keys too
19:01:55 [jim]
* jim says: I'll get to it :)
19:02:21 [AaronSw]
anybody who's going to the social tomorrow: i probably won't make it, but i think i'll be hanging out at the student center beforehand. http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/bostonTrip
19:06:38 [davb]
* davb makes a note
19:20:50 [Mondayphylax]
There's another ACS social tomorrow?
19:20:52 [Mondayphylax]
Where and what time
19:21:27 [Mondayphylax]
Oh
19:21:35 [Mondayphylax]
Massachussets
19:21:41 [Mondayphylax]
That's a wee far for me
19:32:56 [davb]
not by plane :)
19:34:31 [Mondayphylax]
heh
19:34:35 [Mondayphylax]
I'm in debt
19:34:49 [Mondayphylax]
So unless I get that high paying do nothing job for the goverment I'm stuck in NY for a while
19:35:39 [davb]
ah :(
19:45:13 [Mondayphylax]
But I have a new computer to break! yay!
19:45:34 [markd2]
woot!
19:45:47 [Mondayphylax]
w00t
19:45:55 [Mondayphylax]
* Mondayphylax gives mark an image of a cookie
19:46:12 [markd2]
* markd2 xeroxes the cookie
19:46:26 [Mondayphylax]
Mmmmm
19:46:29 [Mondayphylax]
That's cheating
19:46:37 [Mondayphylax]
* Mondayphylax wrestles away the Xeroxes
19:46:45 [markd2]
* markd2 prays to the Greek God Xeroxes
19:46:47 [Mondayphylax]
* Mondayphylax stuffs them in his mouth
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20:12:40 [denshi]
http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df200105/df20010528.jpg
20:12:41 [oacs-chump]
D: http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df200105/df20010528.jpg from denshi
20:13:19 [markd2]
heh
20:27:06 [davb]
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21:37:50 [talli]
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21:57:57 [jkhong]
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21:59:24 [jkhong]
lsof lists a lot of open files that belong to nsd. Is there a way for me to say "Check and close any open files every 5 minutes" in Aolserver? The files are already deleted in the filesystem.
22:01:31 [markd2]
what kind of files?
22:03:49 [jkhong]
temp files. Dynamically generated charts, but somehow I can't "close" them, so they pile up until it the server stops responding.
22:04:12 [markd2]
are you manually opening these files?
22:04:50 [jkhong]
I'm creating those files dynamically, but saving them to a temp file and then opening them again (that was before I discovered ns_returnbinary :)
22:05:46 [markd2]
are you doing these in a seperate thread, or just in whatever thread the connection is being handled with ?
22:05:59 [markd2]
the files should be automatically being closed when the connection closes
22:05:59 [jkhong]
I've changed almost all the charts to be returned using ns_returnbinary, but there are a few more that are reused in pdfs -- can't change those.
22:06:28 [jkhong]
I don't think they are created in separate threads.
22:06:46 [markd2]
ok
22:06:47 [jkhong]
The files are only closed when I restart nsd -- not a very good solution! :)
22:07:05 [markd2]
they should be getting closed automagically, so there must be something weird going on somewhere
22:08:20 [jkhong]
hm... that's not good. They are deleted though. Any idea what might cause them not to be deleted?
22:08:38 [jkhong]
sorry, I meant closed. Cause them not to close.
22:08:51 [markd2]
not off the top of my head
22:08:58 [markd2]
the 'open, delete' idiom is pretty standard
22:09:05 [markd2]
maybe try the aolserver.com mailing list
22:09:14 [markd2]
or if denshi or davb wake up :-)
22:09:19 [markd2]
I gotta go to band now
22:09:20 [markd2]
good luck
22:09:26 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
22:10:50 [jkhong]
Thanks anyway! HAve fun! :)
22:14:50 [jkhong]
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23:28:54 [denshi]
paje, again!
23:28:54 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
23:30:16 [denshi]
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