00:02:09 <barstool> barstool (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
00:02:12 <barstool> hey rbm
00:02:20 <rbm> hey
00:02:30 <rbm> I think my apt is fscked up
00:05:38 <barstool> if i didn't know better, i would tell you to call your landlord
00:12:58 <barstool> windows sucks
00:13:10 <barstool> * barstool ducks to avoid the inevitable flames
00:13:22 <cookie_czar> cookie_czar (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
00:13:28 <cookie_czar> cookie_czar has left #openacs
00:16:01 <rbm> Yeah! Fixed the problem!
00:20:44 <abbaJ> abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-64-123-15-115.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
00:50:35 <cookie_czar> cookie_czar (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
00:50:37 <cookie_czar> cookie_czar is now known as denshi
00:50:38 <abbaJ> abbaJ has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:51:37 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-126.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
01:00:25 <markd2> run away!
01:03:30 <denshi> denshi has quit ()
01:08:53 <barstool> barstool has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:18:25 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
01:24:02 <Workiephylax> ooom?
01:30:49 <abbaJ> abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-64-123-15-115.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
01:35:07 <abbaJ> abbaJ is now known as abbaj
01:35:50 <abbaj> abbaj has quit (Remote closed the connection)
01:36:41 <abbaJ> abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-64-123-15-115.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
01:36:53 <abbaJ> abbaJ is now known as abbaj
02:03:00 <barstool> barstool (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
02:15:26 <davb> davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
02:51:09 <paje> paje (~paje@slxwy.dorms.usu.edu) has joined #openacs
02:52:43 <davb> davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
02:58:36 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-098.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
02:59:03 <markd2> markd2 has quit (Client Quit)
03:00:15 <davb> davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
03:00:23 <davb> davb has quit (Client Quit)
05:12:03 <hazmat> zing
05:12:04 <barstool> barstool has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:05:27 <markd2> markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-160.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
12:11:55 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("Bork")
12:39:33 <davb> davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
12:44:54 <markd2> markd2 (~markd2@h166-102-041-160.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
12:55:25 <til> til (~tils@62.116.19.11) has joined #openacs
13:29:43 <davb> hi
13:29:43 <paje> salut, davb
14:29:18 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("getting some wine")
14:33:04 <barstool_> barstool_ (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
14:33:22 <barstool_> barstool_ is now known as talli
14:36:18 <davb> hey talli
14:36:38 <talli> hey davb
14:38:29 <rbm> oom
15:19:55 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-187.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
15:24:34 <davb> motivation ... failing ....
15:28:52 <rbm> PHP. screwing
15:29:31 <davb> i hope you are getting paid for that...
15:29:48 <myoon> myoon (~myoon@66-108-161-94.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs
15:29:59 <talli> hey myoon
15:30:04 <talli> welcome to our side!
15:30:05 <myoon> hi talli
15:30:08 <myoon> :)
15:30:22 <talli> we have nicer dogs over here
15:30:32 <myoon> I'm a cat person ;)
15:30:39 <talli> me too!
15:30:44 <talli> but my cat is more like a dog
15:30:46 <myoon> excellent
15:31:40 <myoon> so I have a dumb openacs question that I couldn't find an answer for in the forums...
15:32:01 <myoon> a friend of mine is running 4.5 beta, and wants to use static-pages
15:32:12 <markd2> mcyoon!
15:32:21 <myoon> bork!
15:32:24 <davb> uhoh
15:32:25 <myoon> long time...
15:32:26 <davb> * davb hides
15:32:31 <markd2> heh
15:32:46 <davb> :) I will try to answer your static-pages question.
15:32:54 <myoon> thanks, davb
15:33:02 <myoon> probably, dumb user error
15:33:14 <jim> get em together... they will produce a dogcat... depending on which one has genetic dominance, it will either say "meowf!" or "woooeow!"
15:33:45 <myoon> the problem is: Static Pages doesn't show up in the "new application" dropdown list in the Site Map
15:34:04 <myoon> general comments does show up in the list of singleton packages
15:34:23 <jim> myoon install package static pages, create instance of general comments
15:34:23 <myoon> but the thread I saw on openacs.org makes reference to mount general-comments
15:34:46 <myoon> static pages is installed and enabled
15:34:47 <jim> (that's what it sounds like anyway)
15:35:06 <myoon> general comments doesn't show up as a mountable app, either
15:35:13 <davb> myoon: did you restart?
15:35:32 <jim> after installing the pkgs?
15:35:41 <myoon> hmmm. I don't know if he did.
15:35:59 <rbm> jim: Just got my philosophies e-mail from my AM
15:35:59 <myoon> guess I'll restart it...
15:36:07 <jim> cool :)
15:36:20 <markd2> (what is this AM thing?)
15:36:51 <talli> Al Monroe
15:37:32 <davb> wait. you still should be able to mount them after then are installed...
15:38:00 <talli> Al is the grandfather of Herman Simon, who is the brother of Jo Tongar who owns a candy shop that is frequented by Aimee Pondak
15:38:25 <talli> i think you can take it from there
15:38:31 <rbm> markd2: Application Manager. I'm applying to become a Debian Developer, and that's one of the steps (an application manager which was assigned to you makes all sorts of checks to make sure you understand the Debian laws and have the necessary skills to become a maintainer)
15:38:48 <talli> no, rbm is wrong
15:39:07 <rbm> markd2: AM is also the abbreviation for Amazonas, my native state in Brazil :-)
15:39:44 <markd2> rbm: coolio
15:40:50 <jim> rbm: cool deal :) I know you'll impress him on this front :)
15:41:07 <talli> Al is easily impressed
15:41:07 <markd2> I kept reading AM as Arch Mage, which I know isn't right
15:41:32 <talli> once, i impressed him simply by knowign the capital of Kansas
15:42:30 <talli> of course, i had just gotten out of surgery to replace my lungs, so i guess it was pretty impressive
15:42:33 <jim> I got a fairly big chunk of my key sig drill done last night... gonna refactor the common code and apply it everywhere, that should get me to 80% done or better
15:42:51 <jim> replace your lungs??
15:42:54 <jim> wow
15:43:30 <markd2> they've been replaced with 350Qs
15:43:35 <rbm> jim: I hope so
15:43:37 <talli> my god
15:43:47 <markd2> it's full of cars
15:43:59 <rbm> talli: You had a lung transplant?
15:44:17 <talli> markd2: i should show you the rose i make out of one 350 and 6 260s
15:44:37 <markd2> nice
15:44:44 <markd2> I should show you this anatomically correct goat
15:44:50 <rbm> I've always wanted to watch a lung transplant. I've been present at kidney and liver transplants, but no lungs.
15:44:50 <markd2> well, uh, it's actually real.  no balloons.
15:45:11 <talli> that must be some goat!
15:45:30 <jim> real goats are normally anatomically correct :)
15:45:39 <myoon> myoon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:46:26 <myoon> myoon (~myoon@66-108-161-94.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs
15:46:46 <myoon> damn wireless lan is always crapping out on me
15:46:56 <markd2> bummer
15:47:14 <myoon> davb: did you get my last question?
15:47:33 <myoon> restarted, but still no joy with static pages
15:50:12 <davb> very strange.
15:50:33 <davb> they actually should be available to be mounted right after installing. they just won't work until you restart.
15:50:42 <davb> I installed last week off of beta,
15:50:46 <davb> what database?
15:54:06 <myoon> postgres
15:55:03 <davb> hmmmm
15:55:58 <myoon> maybe I should peek into the db
15:57:10 <davb> how opposed to reloading the whole thing are you :) ?
15:57:15 <myoon> :)
15:57:30 <myoon> well, it's not my server, so I'd have to check
16:00:13 <davb> ok. looks like the APM had a problem somewhere.
16:01:16 <myoon> yeah, that's what I'm guessing.
16:01:35 <myoon> any hints on how to fix through a little data surgery?
16:02:31 <davb> not sure
16:04:05 <davb> the packages show up on the apm page as installed right?
16:04:42 <Workiephylax> shit
16:04:48 <davb> no
16:04:53 <davb> i mean what?
16:04:57 <davb> oops
16:04:58 <davb> no
16:05:13 <Workiephylax> Workiephylax is now known as Fixophylax
16:05:24 <davb> he didn't follow the script... darn
16:06:05 <rbm> jim: A little help?
16:06:19 <myoon> davb: yeah, both gc and static-pages show up in APM as installed and enabled
16:06:24 <rbm> jim: I only know 2 different ways of closing a bug. My AM wants 3. 
16:07:08 <rbm> jim: I know about a package upload (with "closes: #" in the changelog) and sending mail to bugnumber-done@bugs.debian.org.
16:07:09 <davb> myoon: see if their package_id shows up in apm_applications
16:07:27 <myoon> davb: will do
16:08:37 <myoon> interesting, I just ran: select apm_package__num_instances('static-pages');
16:08:41 <myoon> and it returns: 1
16:08:46 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
16:08:58 <myoon> so somehow there's an instance of static-pages already?
16:16:37 <myoon> davb: the package_id for the 1 instance of static-pages does show up in apm_applications
16:16:39 <davb> I get one for the answer.
16:17:02 <davb> that is not an "instance" its the package install.
16:17:06 <myoon> really? oh.
16:17:23 <myoon> I've forgotten most everything I ever knew about this data model ;)
16:17:29 <rbm> * rbm kicks jim
16:21:58 <Fixophylax> ouch
16:23:38 <jim> !
16:25:29 <jim> rbm: changelog
16:26:01 <jim> wait, you got that one
16:26:59 <davb> oops I lied :)
16:27:30 <davb> I think if it is in apm_packages, it is mounted...
16:27:35 <davb> they are package instances.
16:27:40 <jim> you can also send to bugnumber@bugs.debian.org and issue one or more commands, after which you say "thanks" which the bugmailbot sees as "no more commands"
16:29:32 <myoon> davb: gotcha
16:32:02 <rbm> jim: But that doesn't mean I closed the bug.
16:32:30 <myoon> davb: so I ran: select node_id, name, directory_id, object_id from site_nodes;
16:32:36 <jim> rbm: one of the bot's commands will close it
16:32:51 <jim> (I forget, maybe it's close)
16:32:57 <rbm> jim: "close" but according to debian-policy that is deprecated.
16:33:17 <rbm> err, I meant the developers reference
16:33:24 <myoon> davb: and I see that there is a site node called "static_page_comments" whose parent_id is the id of the ETP site node
16:33:29 <myoon> no idea how that happened
16:33:35 <jim> yaknow, the more I think about this, the more I realize I'm making small mistakes with names and stuff...
16:33:49 <jim> I think the email is bugs@debian.org
16:34:10 <jim> and you do close 21234 \n thanks
16:34:28 <jim> but if that's deprecated, I don't know the third method
16:35:04 <jim> * jim does set hereness 60%
16:35:24 <rbm> jim: I think that's the third method, but I need to point out it's deprecated.
16:35:59 <jim> maybe the non-deprecated one has a different name?
16:36:13 <jim> or maybe emailing to bugs@debian.org is deprecated?
16:37:08 <davb> myoon: someone mounted that :)
16:37:26 <myoon> davb: yup, my friend neglected to mention that.
16:37:35 <jim> a lot of my info is fairly old, because I haven't gotten debian-devel in awhile
16:38:14 <myoon> davb: looks like there's nothing wrong with the install at all. just dumb user error and lack of communication. sorry to have wasted your time.
16:38:44 <davb> np. I do want to make sure the package works. it it not perfect and only works in certain situations.
16:39:14 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
16:39:28 <jim> the site?
16:39:28 <paje> the site is, like, http://12-233-225-152.client.attbi.com/key-signatures/
16:40:35 <rbm> jim: It looks like it's control@bugs.debian.org
16:40:42 <jim> ahh
16:41:06 <rbm> jim: man this guy asked _a lot_ of questions
16:41:57 <myoon> davb: speaking of which, any idea why my commentable page has no "add a comment" link? I looked at the page source, and I can see that it's inserting a <center> tag
16:42:33 <davb> not sure. what is the page name?
16:42:34 <myoon> davb: on the sp admin page, the row for my "test.html" page says: commentable and comments displayed
16:42:43 <davb> ah, so it should be working :)
16:42:51 <myoon> right :)
16:43:49 <davb> I wonder if it doesn't like your HTML. 
16:44:16 <davb> argh, broke my server...
16:44:37 <davb> :)
16:44:43 <myoon> :) hmmm. it's pretty basic HTML
16:44:57 <davb> it just looks for <body> and </body> i think
16:45:02 <myoon> <html>
16:45:02 <myoon> <head>
16:45:02 <myoon> <title>Test</title>
16:45:02 <myoon> </head>
16:45:02 <myoon> <body>
16:45:03 <myoon> 1 2 3
16:45:04 <myoon> </body>
16:45:06 <myoon> </html>
16:45:18 <myoon> which gets output as:
16:45:31 <myoon> <html>
16:45:32 <myoon> <head>
16:45:32 <myoon> <title>Test</title>
16:45:32 <myoon> </head>
16:45:32 <myoon> <body>
16:45:32 <myoon> 1 2 3
16:45:34 <myoon> <center></center></body>
16:45:36 <myoon> </html>
16:46:27 <myoon> so that <center> tag is definitely being inserted automagically
16:46:35 <davb> right.
16:46:46 <davb> is general-comments mounted at the same level as static-pages?
16:47:04 <davb> also we found that general comments has to be mounted first before static-pages or it does not work...
16:47:11 <myoon> interesting.
16:47:24 <myoon> let me see
16:48:27 <myoon> a-ha. gc is not mounted anywhere.
16:49:08 <myoon> sigh
16:49:52 <myoon> so gc shows up in the list of "centralized services [that] are probably not meant to be mounted anywhere"
16:49:57 <myoon> should I mount it anyway?
16:50:25 <davb> yes, it must be mounted to work. the add a comment pages are in there
16:50:43 <myoon> right, duh. it's all slowly coming back to me.
16:52:26 <myoon> victoire!
16:52:37 <myoon> thanks, davb. I can now comment on my page.
16:53:20 <rbm> myoon: I went through the same process.
16:53:47 <myoon> so if I wanted to contribute to the doc for this package (to spare others the pain I just went thru), how should I go about that?
16:54:18 <myoon> the static-pages admin guide could definitely use an update
16:54:43 <myoon> which I'd be happy to do, unless someone else is already on top of it
16:55:07 <myoon> rbm: you're the documentation lead, correct?
16:55:18 <talli> talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:03:19 <davb> myoon: please do! :)
17:04:59 <myoon> davb: ok then. do I need cvs commit rights to edit the doc? or should I just an edited version of the page to you?
17:06:01 <davb> you can send it to me or submit a patch.
17:07:05 <myoon> all righty. will do.
17:12:12 <rbm> myoon: Yeah.
17:13:18 <rbm> myoon: You can make a patch of the xml files and send it to me or post it to the SDM with your bug
17:13:58 <myoon> rbm: ok, I'll post to SDM so both you and davb can review
17:17:58 <rbm> myoon: Excellent. Thanks. We need more people doing that (updating docs)
17:18:06 <talli> talli (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
17:18:14 <rbm> paje: again!
17:18:14 <paje> * paje spanks talli
17:18:19 <rbm> paje: slashdot
17:18:22 <paje> Slashdot - Updated 2002-04-18 16:35:04 | Microsoft's Guide to Accepting Donated PCs | U.S. Considers Microsoft Passport as National ID | Book Review: Voodoo Science | At the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference
17:18:32 <talli> sweet
17:18:32 <rbm> YIKES!
17:18:42 <rbm> MS Passport as National ID?!?!?!?
17:19:03 <talli> haha
17:19:08 <talli> that would be awesome
17:19:22 <myoon> rbm: my pleasure
17:19:35 <talli> a final nail in the coffin for any idea of separation between public and private institutions
17:42:20 <rbm> * rbm _finally_ finishes the huge e-mail to his AM
17:48:51 <denshi> denshi has quit ()
18:08:03 <davb> emergency reboot required brb
18:08:06 <davb> davb has quit ()
18:11:58 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
18:12:08 <denshi> hello, villans.
18:12:35 <davb> davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
18:12:51 <rbm> hello hero :-)
18:14:39 <davb> heh
18:15:39 <vinod> vinod (~vinod@216-164-248-223.s3207.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
18:17:45 <davb> VINOD!
18:17:57 <vinod> DAVB!
18:19:34 <davb> ah, i guess that is annoying, sorry :)
18:19:45 <vinod> haha - no not at all
18:19:57 <vinod> just responding with similar enthusiasm :-)
18:20:23 <davb> well thanks :)
18:20:58 <vinod> the weather gods have responded to my complaints. it's beautiful today!
18:21:58 <davb> yes, very nice.
18:22:13 <talli> talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)
18:22:14 <davb> vinod: are you going to visit AaronSw at MIT?
18:22:32 <vinod> aaronsw is at mit? i didn't know that
18:23:06 <davb> just giving a talk...
18:23:29 <davb> same day as the social.
18:23:48 <vinod> cool!
18:23:56 <vinod> are you gonna be there, too?
18:24:26 <davb> yes.
18:24:50 <vinod> cool! i'll definitely have to make it
18:24:57 <vinod> * vinod checks his schedule
18:25:35 <vinod> yeah - i should be free in the afternoon
18:25:41 <talli> talli (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
18:29:21 <davb> spiffy.
18:29:41 <davb> talli: how many people have signed up for the social?
18:33:18 <davb> * davb pings nssoap again
18:33:20 <vinod> wow - this could be too much to handle. meeting davb, rbm and aaronsw all in 1 day
18:36:55 <myoon> myoon has quit ("Client Exiting")
18:38:22 <davb> if I want URLs in an xterm to be clickable what secret function do I need to learn?
18:38:27 <denshi> I'll be there in spirit, vinod.
18:39:12 <vinod> davb: don't know, sorry
18:40:09 <vinod> denshi: i'll down a guiness for ya
18:40:21 <vinod> think aaronsw would mind if we started drinking at the lecture?
18:42:18 <denshi> what time is the lecture?
18:42:32 <vinod> 1 PM
18:42:53 <myoon> myoon (~myoon@66-108-161-94.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs
18:46:20 <myoon> myoon has quit ("Client Exiting")
18:49:32 <myoon> myoon (~myoon@66-108-161-94.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs
18:49:55 <denshi> denshi has quit ()
18:56:46 <talli> talli has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:57:47 <talli> talli (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
18:58:41 <rbm> davb: are you going to be at the social?
18:58:59 <rbm> vinod: We could go together to aaron's lecture
18:59:03 <jim> where is social?
18:59:04 <paje> i guess social is next week...
18:59:20 <rbm> Boston
18:59:47 <jim> * jim is not going there anytime soon :)
19:10:06 <davb> rbm: ues
19:10:08 <davb> ack
19:10:14 <davb> yes. mit and social
19:15:10 <rbm> davb: Cool!
19:15:13 <jim> * jim grabs berkeley.edu, moves it to New Mexico, grabs MIT, puts it where berkeley.edu used to be...
19:15:30 <talli> nononon!
19:15:34 <jim> heyy! mit is 15 mi away now!
19:15:38 <talli> berkeley is SOOOO much better than MIT
19:15:51 <talli> be much happier you have it than that arrogant hole
19:16:06 <davb> aigh, i better leave now if I want to make it MIT by tuesday
19:16:18 <jim> mit is ranked higher as an engr school
19:16:58 <jim> second below Stanford
19:17:24 <jim> (well, that was 4-5 years ago, then it was stanford, mit, berkeley)
19:19:25 <jim> talli: Berkeley is pretty damn arrogant too... but Calif State at Chico is better for practical stuff, Berkeley does research, they don't teach... at least MIT rewards good teachers
19:20:12 <talli> stanford is a joke as a school
19:20:20 <talli> the hardest thing to do is get in
19:20:37 <talli> mit may be good as an engineering school, but berkeley is good at EVERYTHING
19:20:47 <talli> and MIT gets all of its goods from research too
19:20:54 <talli> i doubt hte teaching is much better
19:20:56 <jim> no, the hardest thing to do is pay your tuition once you do get in
19:21:04 <talli> anyway, chump is going down for a bit
19:21:05 <talli> me too
19:21:13 <jim> talli: well Holub is good
19:21:18 <vinod> * vinod waits for someone to mention how great the University of Wisconsin is
19:21:28 <jim> but he teaches out of the Berkeley Extension
19:22:03 <jim> (that's where I got a lot of my definitive c++ info
19:22:06 <talli> UW is a great school!
19:22:17 <talli> it's just too friggin' cold
19:22:24 <vinod> * vinod thanks talli for his support :-)
19:22:29 <talli> and we're talking about UW-Greeb Bay, right?
19:22:35 <vinod> haha
19:22:36 <talli> or is UW-Milwaukee/
19:22:37 <rbm> Utah State!
19:22:56 <rbm> * rbm replicates ad_parameter in PHP
19:23:00 <talli> utah state has great debian servers!
19:23:18 <rbm> Where else would you find "debian.usu.edu"?
19:23:18 <davb> rbm: why not just do the whole thing :)?
19:23:27 <davb> we could get alot more developers!
19:23:29 <jim> * jim has never gone to any of those schools, not berk, mit, stanford, uw, UT state, or north texas state
19:23:48 <rbm> davb: My e-commerce module is getting darn close.
19:24:07 <rbm> davb: I wrote my own DB abstraction layer for PHP because PEAR's is soooooooo frigging slow!
19:24:29 <davb> wow. maybe you can release it under a psedonym so your conscience will be clear about the free softwareness of it, but noone will know it was you :)
19:24:41 <rbm> My DB layer has AOLserver/OpenACS-like commands. select, getrow, nextval
19:24:46 <davb> ack. 
19:25:29 <rbm> If I ever release it, the ecommerce module will have to be GPL'd, since it's OACS-derived.
19:25:52 <rbm> Everything in PEAR is so kludgy
19:27:10 <rbm> Should I keep my function name as "ad_parameter"?
19:28:47 <rbm> If I declare a UNIQUE constraint, does it mean it's automatically indexed?
19:30:44 <davb> yep
19:30:49 <davb> I just tried it :)
19:30:55 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all.  OPN has an urgent need for extremely well-connected servers.  If you'd like to sponsor a server and have the resources, you could help the community out quite a bit.  Please take a look at http://openprojects.net/sponsoring_servers.shtml and email lilo@openprojects.net .... thanks!
19:30:55 <rbm> k
19:31:32 <rbm> Hmmmm. Sequences in PG 7.2 are int8 internally
19:47:25 <jim> int -8-??
19:47:43 <jim> 8 bit?
19:51:58 <rbm> yeah
20:32:53 <davb> davb has quit ()
20:36:25 <talli> talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:47:36 <jim> 8 -bit-?? then pg 7.2 sequences are useless...
20:52:33 <myoon> myoon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:55:18 <vinod> that should be 8-byte
21:11:11 <rbm> oops. Sorry, I meant bytes.
21:18:19 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
21:40:32 <denshi> hey vinod
21:47:28 <talli> talli (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
21:51:17 <vinod> hey denshi 
21:51:38 <denshi> vinod, how much does an anesthesiologist get per hit?
21:51:56 <vinod> per hit?
21:52:08 <denshi> err... person knocked out.
21:52:15 <vinod> i'm not sure that they're on the drug-dealer-equivalent pay schedule
21:52:16 <vinod> :-)
21:52:23 <vinod> hmmmm....
21:52:49 <vinod> an academic anesthesiologist makes about 150-200K per year (private maybe a bit more)
21:52:56 <denshi> b/c i was quoted something like $5k
21:53:06 <rbm> That's pretty good.
21:53:40 <vinod> it may cost a person $5K to get knocked out (for a complex procedure?), but the anesthesiologist will only get a small fraction of that
21:53:41 <rbm> "So doctor, how much will the hit cost?"
21:53:44 <denshi> now, I'm sure that they have to cover a lot of training and stuff.
21:53:53 <vinod> most of the costs will be for OR time
21:53:56 <vinod> operating room time
21:54:01 <denshi> but rubber-mallet technology *has* to be covering the gap.
21:54:08 <vinod> haha
21:54:13 <rbm> "well, that depends. With no pain, $5 grand. With some pain, $3 grand. With more pain $500 bucks will do."
21:54:30 <denshi> haha
21:55:03 <rbm> OR cost is a killer
21:55:30 <denshi> whoa.  rbm is going into medicine.
21:55:35 <rbm> Wow, I'd pay to be in the position a friend of mine was earlier today.
21:55:46 <rbm> denshi: s/is/was/
21:56:00 <vinod> rbm was smart and got out of medicine early :-)
21:56:09 <rbm> He got a call from Microsoft, asking about their licenses, if they were up-to-date and stuff...
21:56:21 <MysticOne> [ServerNotice] Good evening, everyone.  If you're seeing this message you are on a server that will be going down for maintenence in approximately 24 hours.  To avoid any unexpected interruption, simply /server irc.openprojects.net to connect to a server that will be unaffected.  Thank you for using the Open Projects Network.
21:56:26 <rbm> He got to tell them: "Our last NT server is thankfully moving to Linux."
21:56:41 <rbm> He said the MS guy on the other side of the line squirmed.
21:57:08 <rbm> I can almost see the gnashing of teeth at Redmond :-)
21:57:37 <rbm> vinod: :-)
21:57:58 <rbm> vinod: My mom cried when I told her I was quitting med school. She really wanted me to go on with it.
21:58:02 <denshi> I wonder what went through the MS guy's head when your friend told him that.
21:58:34 <vinod> rbm: yeah, that's the usual parental response. my parents think i've gone off the deep end these past couple years :-)
21:58:36 <denshi> My bet: "Is this an 'insult him' situation, or a 'sue the bastard' situation?" was his line of thought.
21:58:37 <rbm> denshi: Probably "Oh crap. 5th this happens today. Wonder for how much longer will I have a job." :)
21:59:34 <denshi> someone on /. today ranted about how everytime he buys into an architecture the line is extinguished.  A bunch of replies urged him to buy more MS products. :)
22:01:30 <rbm> (:
22:02:03 <rbm> Yeah! my PHP version of ad_parameter works!
22:03:41 <vinod> cool!
22:04:55 <rbm> ad_parameter("EcommerceDataDirectory","ecommerce");
22:05:11 <rbm> I'll have to implement caching on this thing later
22:05:30 <denshi> what's the noize about php?  it's come up a lot lately.
22:05:44 <rbm> denshi: I'm being forced into PHP by some contract work
22:27:22 <denshi> rbm, who's working on webmail?
22:29:37 <rbm> dunno
22:29:45 <rbm> Is it not listed on the status doc?
22:30:14 <denshi> well, I haven't found a status doc.
22:30:39 <denshi> the version in the dist is oracle-only, and hasn't been revved since leaving aD.
22:35:42 <rbm> The status doc is linked from openacs.org/4/
22:37:44 <denshi> none and none.
22:37:46 <denshi> I want that.
22:42:23 <vinod> denshi: cool! shoot an email to donb
23:07:40 <talli> denshi: i think webmail may have been either deprecated or rejected
23:07:56 <talli> from what i remember, it relies on Oracle-specific java
23:08:41 <talli> there's been a lot of discussion about webmail over time, and it usually starts, "who's working on webmail", progresses to "webmail sucks" and ends "who's goign to write a new one?"
23:08:56 <talli> someone built an IMAP module for nsd, but has yet to release it
23:08:58 <talli> ok, gotta go
23:09:03 <talli> talli is now known as barstool
23:15:57 <denshi> barstool: the problem with webmail, beyond the Oracle-ism queries, and the oracle-lib importing Java, and ugliness, is that it doesn't tie into acs-messaging or much of anything else.
23:18:54 <vinod> gesundheit
23:33:41 <barstool> barstool has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:34:20 <barstool> barstool (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
23:36:17 <denshi> barstool: the problem with webmail, beyond the Oracle-ism queries, and the oracle-lib importing Java, and ugliness, is that it doesn't tie into acs-messaging or much of anything else.
23:51:55 <denshi> denshi has quit ()
23:56:17 <davb> davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
23:56:17 <vinod> vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:56:44 <rbm> bbiab