IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:04:48 [davb]
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03:01:18 [talli]
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03:01:38 [talli]
hello fellow martians
03:04:31 [markd2]
* markd2 beeps
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11:31:10 [til]
morning everybody
12:21:18 [jim]
hiya
12:29:07 [til]
hey jim
12:30:22 [til]
have you seen lars pinds oracle tips? basically the same as your script (pinds.com)
12:31:18 [ms]
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12:39:36 [jim]
ahh :) cool :)
12:41:13 [jim]
yeah, looks like he had the same concept as I did... I just got it from one of the acs install chapters
12:41:29 [davb]
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12:41:37 [davb]
hello
12:41:37 [paje]
hello, davb
12:41:49 [jim]
re davb
12:43:20 [jim]
til: didn't you suggest to drop the table space with the user (since I created the user and the table space in one shot)?
12:44:38 [til]
i think markd said something like: better first do this and then that, but i can't remember exactly
12:46:13 [til]
the latest version of your script that you sent me did it the recommended way
12:46:35 [jim]
til: ok...
12:46:50 [til]
how is your sig drill coming along?
12:47:04 [jim]
hmm... I'm still having trouble...
12:48:28 [jim]
before going there, I'll probably alter my script to produce files or something like that, or stream the pieces (creating, destroying the user/tblspace) so they can be streamed into svrmgrl
12:49:33 [jim]
but, some good news (I hope it stays that way too), I think I found my hardware instability (bad ram) and fixed that
12:49:59 [jim]
the computer is behaving well now
12:52:24 [jim]
before I can say what the key sig drill problems are, let me get ready
12:54:37 [markd2]
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13:11:55 [davb]
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13:12:19 [jim]
ok...
13:13:05 [jim]
first, if I have a form with several submit buttons (for diff purposes, oc), how can I set their action url separately?
13:13:57 [jim]
-action doesn't seem to work... would I do -html { action url }?
13:15:37 [til]
you need to generate seperate <form>s for that
13:15:40 [markd2]
can that be done in html? have buttons in the same form do different actions?
13:15:43 [davb]
jim, you actually have seperate forms
13:15:48 [markd2]
heh
13:16:21 [markd2]
dunno about the form manager, you can also have the forms go to one action, and the ndiscriminate there what button was pushed
13:18:24 [jim]
well... what I was originally envisioning... was one of those two-box ("here's a buncha stuff in this one box, click and say "add to other list" to move it over there"
13:19:58 [davb]
but stuff can move in more than one direction? so you need to specify which way?
13:20:33 [til]
also the two-box thing would do the ordering for the user, which you want to avoid i thought
13:21:12 [jim]
til: well, they would only add one at a time, they would do so in order
13:21:32 [jim]
if they didn't, it would append in a different order...
13:21:37 [til]
ok
13:21:53 [jim]
also, I remember the multi dropdown idea
13:23:05 [davb]
ok, i still hate VBA
13:23:08 [davb]
:)
13:23:31 [jim]
MBAs make more money :)
13:24:10 [markd2]
yeah. all that money for playing basketball
13:24:31 [jim]
nono, those are MVPs :)
13:25:47 [jim]
sheeeeesh.... those acs guys didn't document some of their calls...
13:26:54 [jim]
however... major kudos to the fixer of the api browser :)
13:32:58 [rbm]
* rbm rubs his eyes
13:33:30 [rbm]
jim: you can give different names and values to the submit buttons and then discriminate what to check for according to the values you receive
13:40:29 [davb]
brb
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13:51:38 [jim]
what args can you give to form create, other than the name of the form?
13:52:31 [jim]
the docs say it accepts the (mandatory) name along with optional arguments, but doesn't say anything about them
13:53:09 [jim]
I looked at the source... no clue
13:55:37 [rbm]
dunno. never used the form manager
14:05:14 [jim]
rbm: hmm... I think I need a (re)primer on how information flows with forms...
14:05:39 [markd2]
wow. it's *really* raining here
14:06:19 [rbm]
jim: I thought you were using the auto form generation foo from openacs
14:06:50 [markd2]
* markd2 likes the robin-egg blue used for the forms
14:07:21 [jim]
yeah, but I'm running into lots of problems, and it's likely cause I'm forgetting a bunch of stuff I used to know :)
14:10:00 [davb]
yeah! i figured out where to put the parentheses in VB!
14:11:59 [rbm]
what's difficult about it?
14:13:08 [markd2]
the have to be unbalanced
14:13:37 [davb]
heh
14:30:21 [jim]
so I'm scrambling to find something that matches what I thought I used to know (like: form variables come into pages via ad_page_contract, and can go out to templates via the same call
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15:00:26 [jim]
if I get a submit, how can I get the label of the submitter?
15:00:55 [markd2]
don't know off the top of my head
15:01:06 [markd2]
one handy tool is to do an ns_set print [ns_getform] in the page somewhere
15:01:16 [markd2]
that'll spew all the form data to the server log
15:01:28 [markd2]
useful for reverse-engineering form behavior
15:01:52 [jim]
ok
15:10:20 [jim]
there's some utils in template::util that might convert that set to a onerow
15:17:45 [Psychephylax]
hey all
15:23:10 [markdfoo]
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15:23:44 [markd2]
paje, alltel?
15:23:44 [paje]
alltel are a bunch of wankers
15:28:03 [davb]
hi Psychephylax
15:28:10 [davb]
* davb conquers VBA
15:28:17 [markd2]
woo hoo
15:30:04 [jim]
woo hoo foo too?
15:30:28 [jim]
ok, so it's past my bedtime :)
15:30:35 [markd2]
heh
15:30:39 [jim]
I still wanna get this thing going...
15:31:10 [jim]
markd2: your idea was great... I made a quick extension...
15:31:27 [jim]
set display [template::util::set_to_list [ns_getform]]
15:31:58 [jim]
ad_page_contract {} -properties { display:onevalue}
15:32:08 [markd2]
awesome
15:32:09 [jim]
then in the adp...
15:32:27 [jim]
<master> @display@
15:39:35 [Psychephylax]
it's freeeeeezing in the headend lab
15:39:38 [Psychephylax]
brrrrrrrrrrrrr
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16:01:09 [talli]
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16:09:38 [jim]
any idea why tcl upvar needs a # char before the level?
16:09:38 [davb]
* davb misses the ns_db api
16:09:48 [davb]
jim it doesn't necessarily
16:10:04 [davb]
without the # means move up this many levels
16:10:11 [davb]
or something like that :)
16:10:17 [jim]
ohh
16:10:24 [jim]
so it's an absoluter
16:10:26 [davb]
yeah
16:10:31 [jim]
gotcha
16:10:43 [jim]
do I need a \#?
16:10:51 [jim]
so it's not a comment?
16:13:40 [markd2]
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16:17:45 [davb]
you need a # is you want to set the absolute level to go to.
16:18:04 [davb]
probably not a good idea though. i think you probably want to go up a certain number of levels
16:18:25 [jim]
davb: ok...
16:18:45 [jim]
there is this command, template::parse_level....
16:18:59 [jim]
it gives either the absolute or relative level
16:19:16 [jim]
the usage examples use #
16:19:36 [davb]
ah. if you can safely get the level, i guess its ok to use it :)
16:19:47 [jim]
(but template::parse_level is actually a stack)
16:20:19 [davb]
I just know how the command works, I don't understand the code that uses it :)
16:20:38 [jim]
maybe there's another that grabs the top or something
16:21:16 [jim]
they're saying the variables are in invocations of template::parse_adp (I know I'm getting the name wrong)
16:21:50 [jim]
so template::parse_level is a stack of level numbers of stack frames where template::parse_adp is running
16:24:40 [davb]
argh
16:24:49 [davb]
jim, that hurts my head
16:25:01 [davb]
VBA does not seem to have a way to check if a query returned any rows
16:25:14 [davb]
when you check, it throws a runtime error because there aren't any
16:25:29 [markd2]
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16:29:37 [jim]
if you have stack frames like this
16:29:42 [jim]
a b c
16:29:44 [jim]
-
16:29:46 [jim]
d e
16:29:51 [jim]
-
16:29:53 [jim]
f g h
16:30:19 [jim]
and the stack frames are numbered from 1 at the top, and stack grows down,
16:31:14 [jim]
say the parse invocations are at 1 and 3, then that variable should contain {3 1}
16:31:35 [davb]
ah.
16:31:43 [jim]
(and before stack frame 3 is created for that parser, would contain {1})
16:32:48 [jim]
so our stack just tells us which frames the parsers are running in (because that's what we're interested in (because the variables we want are there))
16:37:40 [jim]
(why do I need all this tho?!?)
16:51:24 [jim]
* jim looks at acs-templating/tcl/form-procs.tcl, where he finds "upvar #$level $id:submission submission"...
16:54:26 [davb]
jim: i would think the template api should hide all that from you.
16:54:41 [jim]
* jim is waiting to not see it :)
16:54:44 [davb]
heh
16:55:16 [davb]
form handling is another area that don wants to see improved across the toolkit
16:55:16 [jim]
tbh, I'm doing some WeirdStuff here...
16:56:04 [jim]
temper that with "document what's there" tho :)
16:57:00 [jim]
there's a template::adp_level and a template::parse_level
16:58:12 [davb]
are those used by the other template procs though?
16:58:22 [jim]
yeah, some of them
16:58:39 [davb]
but the standard template procs are not doing it for you huh?
16:58:40 [jim]
see, I gotta get values into those stack frames
16:58:48 [davb]
oh, that seems icky :)
16:59:32 [jim]
well, I'm using this werid validatation block that reaches down and puts a value in a var where my tcl is executing (I hope, anyway)
16:59:33 [denshi]
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16:59:43 [jim]
so I started out doing uplevel 4
16:59:54 [davb]
ok. its getting beyond my skill level :)
16:59:56 [jim]
err upvar 4 ... ...
16:59:57 [davb]
hi denshi
17:00:09 [denshi]
hello
17:00:09 [paje]
bonjour, denshi
17:00:13 [jim]
I found 4 randomly :)
17:00:17 [davb]
ah.
17:00:24 [denshi]
oh god, paje has achieved sentience.
17:00:35 [jim]
and that is so far in your skill level, it's near the center :)
17:00:37 [denshi]
paje, botsnack, and please don't take over the net.
17:00:38 [paje]
thanks denshi :)
17:00:54 [davb]
jim: i will admit that, i figure most things out randomly :)
17:00:58 [jim]
and that?
17:00:58 [paje]
i think that is not true
17:01:28 [jim]
paje: you said the wrong one :P
17:01:29 [paje]
jim: huh?
17:01:33 [davb]
that?
17:01:34 [paje]
that is not true
17:01:36 [davb]
that?
17:01:36 [paje]
that is not true
17:01:36 [jim]
mmhmm :)
17:01:55 [davb]
yeah! my duplicate entry detection code works!
17:04:22 [jim]
# set the stack frame at which the template is being parsed so that
17:04:22 [jim]
# other procedures can reference variables cleanly
17:04:36 [markd2]
yay!
17:04:37 [jim]
variable parse_level
17:04:39 [jim]
lappend parse_level [info level]
17:08:38 [jim]
now, I'm getting the value in a var...
17:08:52 [jim]
I'm getting -really- close now
17:14:27 [ms]
davb: where can i find the calls to the comments api for static pages?
17:17:20 [jim]
ms: it might be just one call
17:20:43 [davb]
ms ?
17:20:59 [davb]
the part that adds the comment link to the pages
17:21:05 [ms]
yes
17:21:05 [davb]
its in tcl/static-pages-procs.tcl
17:21:18 [davb]
sp_serve_html_page I think is the proc
17:22:01 [talli]
what's the proof that paje is smarter than my tuchus?
17:23:42 [davb]
i thought that was one of the things that was so obvious it was accepted without proof
17:24:53 [markd2]
axiomatic
17:25:13 [talli]
wow. and i have a pretty smart tuchus
17:25:49 [davb]
thanks markd2!
17:32:41 [ms]
thanks. i believe i have general comments working in a subsite aware manner now.
17:36:48 [davb]
wow, thats great!
17:39:12 [ms]
it was pretty simple. of course there may be some unforeseen complications.
17:44:24 [davb]
sure. I would like to see what you did, but I am really short of time.
17:47:41 [ms]
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17:49:26 [ms__]
i'll submit a patch to the sdm after i give it a thorough read through.
18:01:26 [davb]
* davb loves the "trial by fire" method of learning, it is so efficient
18:02:02 [jim]
yeah, but it burns alot if you have to do it for long
18:09:02 [anlater]
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18:10:47 [davb]
jim: i am pretty much flame proof at this point...
18:31:14 [Psychephylax]
Hmmm
18:31:22 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax wonders if markd2 is awake
18:31:28 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax waves a cookie in front of his nose
18:31:47 [markd2]
* markd2 wakes up
18:31:52 [markd2]
and smells the cookies!
18:31:58 [Psychephylax]
And eats the cookies!
18:31:58 [talilee]
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18:32:05 [Psychephylax]
Where can I get Oracle client?
18:32:11 [talilee]
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18:32:30 [markd2]
you can get the CD and install the oracle client-side stuff
18:32:41 [Psychephylax]
They don't have the standalone one?
18:32:45 [Psychephylax]
I need a specific client too
18:33:08 [Psychephylax]
8.1.7
18:36:54 [tontsa]
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19:03:55 [jim]
say I have a link that looks like this... <a href=".?var=A#,B#,C#">C#</a>
19:04:21 [jim]
should I html-escapize the #s?
19:04:24 [talli]
i will not say such a nasty thing!
19:04:45 [jim]
-man-, are you ever missing out!
19:04:52 [markd2]
I think you'd need to, otherwise the browser might interpret them as the go-to-an-anchor thing
19:05:01 [markd2]
you can always try it without. if it works in IE, it
19:05:05 [markd2]
'll work everywhere
19:05:46 [jim]
where is the complete list of character encodings?
19:08:36 [markd2]
ns_urlencode will do it. It'll just whack it to the %XX format
19:09:07 [jim]
ooh, cool
19:10:24 [jim]
btw...
19:11:00 [jim]
aolserver.com broke openacs aolserver api search...
19:11:15 [markd2]
?
19:11:26 [jim]
go to acs api browser,
19:11:36 [jim]
put ns_urlencode
19:11:45 [jim]
in the bottom one
19:12:00 [markd2]
oh yeah, the aolserver guys are really sloppy about maintaining links whever they redesign the site
19:12:15 [davb]
jim: there is ad_urlencode or something also.
19:12:55 [jim]
even better
19:15:47 [jim]
unfortunately it's not taking care of the #
19:18:50 [markd2]
oog. it's thinking # is OK since it's the anchor character. drat
19:19:42 [jim]
yeah
19:20:22 [jim]
%xx is hexidecimal?
19:22:28 [jim]
hmm, yea, looks that way
19:23:13 [markd2]
yep
19:24:51 [jim]
ok, so I encode it so it looks like a , separated list all the time...
19:28:42 [davb]
jim: do you really need the #'s in there?
19:31:58 [markd2]
it's probablably music related, and needs to be #
19:35:11 [jim]
yeah, it's a drill on # key signatures :)
19:35:35 [davb]
jim: are you passing # and regular notes in the URL variables? or are they all sharp?
19:35:57 [jim]
right now, they're all sharped
19:36:04 [davb]
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/gilligames/Space_HoRSE/index.htm
19:36:04 [oacs-chump]
A: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/gilligames/Space_HoRSE/index.htm from davb
19:36:16 [davb]
A:| New version of M.U.L.E.
19:36:16 [oacs-chump]
titled item A
19:36:26 [davb]
jim: ah, so they might NOT be...
19:36:28 [markd2]
whoa
19:36:50 [markd2]
* markd2 knew Dan(i) Bunten
19:37:12 [davb]
neat
19:37:25 [markd2]
Ozark Softscape was active in the Little Rock apple user's group
19:38:28 [davb]
A: inspired by MULE, no official affiliation
19:38:28 [oacs-chump]
added comment A1
19:39:29 [jim]
but check this out... I viewed the doc source, and the source shows it is encocding it; I was looking at the url at the bottom of the netscape window
19:40:09 [davb]
oh, so netscape was unencoding it for you?
19:40:41 [jim]
so I'd see the link "correctly", yes
19:41:22 [jim]
markd2: so I take all that back, the # was getting encoded :)
19:42:27 [jim]
what I'm wondering now, is (how |when |)will I get it decoded
19:42:51 [jim]
the , separator is getting decoded too
19:43:06 [jim]
err, encoded
19:47:49 [davb]
jim: aren't you supposed to use ;
19:48:00 [jim]
;?
19:48:05 [jim]
I remember ;
19:48:08 [jim]
but where?
19:48:14 [davb]
hm
19:48:15 [davb]
nm
19:48:22 [davb]
i was mistaken :)
19:48:27 [jim]
anyways, it just started -working- :)
19:48:41 [davb]
ad_page_contract should unencode it for you i think...
19:48:43 [jim]
I took all that form crap out :)
19:48:55 [jim]
yeah, it seems to be working now
19:49:13 [jim]
don't need no stack frame internal thingy no moe
19:49:43 [davb]
jim: so you are just createing links with the stuff in there?
19:50:44 [jim]
yep
19:51:41 [jim]
but I'm gonna encode the answer in a form that doesn't need 5000 submit buttons :)
19:52:31 [jim]
anyone did an lremove or lconcat?
19:53:14 [markd2]
not since they've been outlawed in western PA
19:54:02 [jim]
they been apparently outlawd in western TCL too
19:54:31 [jim]
oh, oops :)
19:54:40 [jim]
lreplace does what I want :)
19:57:51 [talli]
markd2: i thought you were an outlaw.
19:57:58 [talli]
since when do you listen to the Man?
19:59:22 [jim]
now jes you wait a cottin pikin minnit... if marriage were outlawed, only outlaws would have inlaws...
20:12:54 [jim]
if do something like this... set my_list [split something "delim"], then I say set my_copy $my_list and last I say lappend my_copy "something", do I also append something to my_list?
20:14:21 [davb]
no
20:14:44 [davb]
a list is just a text string like this : { item 1} {item 2} etc...
20:15:09 [jim]
gotcha... and that's a list containing two lists, yes?
20:18:51 [davb]
something like that :)
20:19:07 [davb]
yeah it is, becuase item is an item and 1 is an item :)
20:19:44 [jim]
oic
20:21:19 [jim]
hah! I got the other part to work too!
20:22:08 [jim]
click once on a sharp, it adds it to the list... then you can add other sharps in any order you want, but if you click again on any sharp, it goes byebye
20:22:38 [jim]
so if I click on A# B# C# A#
20:22:50 [jim]
my list will end up being B# C#
20:23:33 [davb]
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/doctype/
20:23:34 [oacs-chump]
B: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/doctype/ from davb
20:23:46 [davb]
B:|Fixing Your Site With the Right DOCTYPE
20:23:46 [oacs-chump]
titled item B
20:24:05 [davb]
jim: cool!
20:24:44 [jim]
I wanted to get that in the forms way, but that was too weird... I could deal with all the stack frame stuff, if I could trust it all the time
20:27:03 [jim]
solid as a rock this way
20:27:23 [davb]
it should be pretty fast. that is how the new-portal rearranging code works.
20:27:57 [davb]
* davb thought of a neat idea
20:28:23 [davb]
BLURB: Asking interesting well-informed questions is a way of contributing to open source software
20:28:23 [oacs-chump]
C: Asking interesting well-informed questions is a way of contributing to open source software from davb
20:28:47 [talli]
davb: that's ridiculous!
20:28:56 [davb]
?
20:29:07 [talli]
i find the best way to contribute is with flamebait
20:29:12 [davb]
ah
20:29:39 [talli]
like, "i heard that oacs developers smell better than zope's. is this true?"
20:30:14 [denshi]
it's true.
20:31:53 [talli]
and who are you?
20:32:20 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
20:33:22 [davb]
bye now
20:33:26 [davb]
davb has quit ()
20:34:49 [talli]
talli is now known as bartool
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bartool is now known as barstool
20:47:15 [markd2]
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20:51:46 [jim]
there :) I should be ready for rbm in a day or so :)
21:16:34 [rbm]
hmmm?
21:16:48 [rbm]
* rbm tries to make sense of jim's comment
21:17:57 [rbm]
I'm making animations with Cinema 4D for my multimedia class...
21:18:08 [rbm]
I just made a drop morph into a puttle
21:18:29 [rbm]
However, I don't know how to save the animation :-)
21:18:34 [rbm]
paje: seen jim?
21:18:35 [paje]
jim was last seen on #openacs 26 minutes and 48 seconds ago, saying: there :) I should be ready for rbm in a day or so :) [Mon Apr 15 14:52:26 2002]
21:19:35 [markd2]
* markd2 scrolls back looking for goat references
21:23:45 [Psychephylax]
Yay
21:23:49 [Psychephylax]
time to jet home
21:23:55 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax is now known as Homiephylax
21:23:59 [Homiephylax]
Yo
21:24:01 [Homiephylax]
:-D
21:24:05 [markd2]
gitdown!
21:24:07 [paje]
gitfunky
21:24:08 [Homiephylax]
* Homiephylax runs away
21:24:21 [Homiephylax]
* Homiephylax gitsdownfunky all the way to his car with a big grin
21:38:21 [markd2]
are there folks here that use 'screen'?
21:39:33 [denshi]
several, but not myself
21:39:52 [markd2]
just wondering if it'll auto-suspend if the net connection goes down
21:40:04 [markd2]
and if I could re-attach afterwards
21:41:16 [rbm]
I use screen
21:41:24 [markd2]
yay
21:41:34 [markd2]
I saw a demo of it at a linux meeting on saturday
21:42:00 [markd2]
just wondering if it's possible to reattach to a running screen session that wasn't detached from cleanly
21:42:03 [rbm]
If I lose my connectivity to the machine where screen is running (and that is connected to IRC) I just have to reconnect and reattach
21:42:08 [markd2]
sweet,
21:42:12 [rbm]
markd2: Yes, it is
21:42:39 [rbm]
That's how I never leave the channel (unless I lose connectivity to opn)
21:42:47 [markd2]
any security issues leaving a session sitting around?
21:43:03 [markd2]
more from an external attack kind of thing
21:43:14 [markd2]
if someone logs in as me, there's more things to be worried about =:-O
21:43:18 [rbm]
None that I know of.
21:43:20 [denshi]
I keep meaning to learn to use screen for multiple sessions. but instead I just keep buying larger monitors.
21:43:44 [rbm]
Yes, of course. I never leave screen sessions with me su'd to root for example
21:43:49 [denshi]
I have about 20 xterms open on 5 virtual screens.
21:44:06 [rbm]
wow
21:44:08 [markd2]
I tend to stuff shells into one emacs
21:44:14 [markd2]
but that's not too useful when the link goes dead
21:44:15 [denshi]
maybe I could find some kind of unix sysadmin/psychotherapist to help me with this problem.
21:45:38 [denshi]
I tried to learn to love emacs-as-a-desktop, but I just can't treat emacs buffers spatially.
21:50:09 [markd2]
I treat them by name rather than position
21:50:35 [markd2]
with short easy-to-type shortcuts for stuff I really frequently use
21:51:47 [denshi]
even so, I haven't figured out how to scope my emacs buffers by project.
21:52:21 [denshi]
I can work concurrently on several things provided they all have their own desktop.
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