02:49:25 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 04:25:06 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 13:06:22 talilee_ (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 13:06:28 talilee_ is now known as talilee 14:48:07 djg (djg@fiesta.cs.tu-berlin.de) has joined #openacs 15:01:52 jim (~jim@12-233-225-152.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 15:16:51 anybody home this morn? 15:17:48 djg has quit (Remote closed the connection) 15:17:58 denshi (toddg@linux128.ma.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs 15:18:04 Hi... looks like I have to relearn forms 15:18:29 * jim tries to do this by himself... 15:18:38 which forms? 15:20:07 yo jim, denshi 15:20:42 anyone catch the challenge to free software on the boards today?> 15:21:07 whereboards? 15:21:07 should i wait to see how bad simon gets flamed? 15:21:19 oacs bboards, in the "building track and field website" 15:21:29 ahh 15:21:44 haven't checked my mail yet... 15:22:01 has anyone been having probs with the latest mozilla on KDE3/debian unstable? 15:22:10 denshi: acs html forms 15:22:41 talli: everyone's been complaining 15:22:52 ah, ok 15:22:52 cool 15:23:10 I think there's a new moz in incomign 15:23:11 jim: as far as forms, did you see luke's form builder? 15:23:18 dunno if it's what you're looking for... 15:23:35 I now enter the bboard flame... 15:23:53 hold on! 15:23:57 lemme post first 15:23:59 no, well, I just need to get values back, and I thought I could get em from saying in ad_page_contract that I wanted them 15:24:12 i would like to try and keep it from getting too nasty as simon has contributed a lot 15:24:24 he just doesn't understand open source != free 15:24:33 jim: ah, i see 15:24:56 actually, he's just factually incorrect about which licenses are being used in his examples. 15:25:13 I think I confirmed that by looking at my room reservation system 15:25:14 post after I correct that, plz. it will be usefu to you, too. 15:25:32 ok, cool 15:25:41 he does deserve a flame or two, though ;) 15:25:52 he says some stupid shit. 15:26:05 but he's been a good contributor 15:26:25 although he has asked this question before, so he's been trying to push this for a while 15:26:27 but if I create a form, then I submit that form to the same page, where do all the values go? 15:26:41 am I right about ad_p_c? 15:26:48 beats me 15:26:52 where's davb? 15:26:53 hmmm... davb is akk ut tajes 15:26:59 he's the friggin expert about this stuff 15:27:19 he's the friggin expert about alot L:) 15:27:27 yeah. 15:27:54 jim: what have people been complaining about re: mozilla? the latest release or moz on kde3? 15:28:04 I'm making some funky music drill forms :) 15:28:14 ummm 15:28:19 dunno exactly 15:28:41 I tend to ignore, cause I don't want to use sid yet 15:29:04 djg (djg@briksdal.cs.tu-berlin.de) has joined #openacs 15:29:05 hey, where's luke's form builder? 15:29:07 well, it seems that i'm getting moz 0.9.9.6 with my "apt-get upgrade gaim" so hopefully there will be a fix there 15:29:22 ok, the fix is in then 15:29:32 you mean 0.9.9-6? 15:29:45 http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004FE&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12 15:29:45 A: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004FE&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12 from talli 15:29:54 anlater: LukeP 15:30:03 anlater: lukep's form builder 15:30:05 oh shit 15:30:13 can someone comment the link for me? 15:30:40 (the - is important: to the left is upstream, to the right is number of times that version has been uploaded/updated 15:30:50 A: 15:30:50 http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004FE&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12 15:30:51 ah, ok 15:30:55 anlater: 15:30:57 A: Luke Pond's form builder 15:30:57 added comment A1 15:32:09 talli, you post. simon makes a lot of cogent arguments. 15:32:22 a debian package file name will have _version.deb 15:32:48 the version will be as above... 15:33:04 denshi: he makes cogent arguments if it's not free software 15:33:16 but it is! and it should be! 15:33:23 oh, talli, I forgot, I have to start hating you now. 15:34:07 why, what did i do? 15:34:14 take your girl? get used to it 15:34:20 that's unrelated to oacs, btw, just NYC. 15:34:42 did some beautiful woman you've coveted move to NYC? 15:34:46 the upstream part is the version of the thing that was packaged 15:35:30 nah, in two months she's going. 15:36:13 what's your miserable town have that I don't? 15:36:30 uh, culture? 15:36:40 why do you hate me? 15:36:50 because you are a redneck in a podunk town? 15:37:42 rebutting your arguemtns are difficult since I haven't been there. 15:38:15 I'll have to visit you and vinod and engage in some intense talli-hating for a weekend 15:39:49 neat 15:39:55 but why do you hate me? 15:40:07 any particular reason, or just because you're petty? 15:40:15 ah well. when you date dance majors, you know they're going to go to NYC eventually. 15:40:46 hate == dumb joke. poor idiom chopice over here. 15:41:14 did you ever get together with that dancer you met on the train? 15:42:19 no, i didn;t 15:42:32 i went to her show with her friend, and briefly spoke with her after the show 15:42:55 but she had a lot of friends visiting, and i was sick, so there was even less talli charm available to woo her with 15:43:01 d'oh. 15:43:26 talilee has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:43:31 I'm still trying to categorize everyone I met this weekend. 15:43:37 good. i didn't like that talilee guy anyway 15:45:37 luke's stuff looks cool 15:45:59 luke's stuff usually is 15:48:06 i found out on friday that one of the mozilla developers works in my office 15:48:13 he sublets space from modernhumorist 15:48:43 everytime mozilla crashes, i'll just scoot over there and give him a head's up 15:50:43 venezuela rocks!!! 15:51:02 why, because they won't extradite you? 15:51:51 have you followed what's gone on the past couple of days? 15:52:02 venezuela is the 3rd largest supplier of oil to the US 15:52:21 a couple of years ago, a leftist/populist president was elected to lead the country 15:52:47 he has pissed off the US immeasurably as he's nationalized the oil industry down there and pushed OPEC to raise prices 15:53:20 a couple of days ago, a coup happened that was supported by venezuelan business and oil interests 15:53:58 this happened after a large demonstration occured that was protesting some of chavez's oil policies. soldiers opened fire and killed 16 people (a very bad thing) 15:54:26 however, after the coup occured, populist demonstrations erupted calling for chavez's return. 15:54:41 the new government also saw defections by many military officers 15:54:58 yesterday, the new president resigned and chavez was restored to power 15:55:35 are there many freaky right-wingers in this channel who are joining denshi in his hatred of me? 15:55:46 i know there are plenty of militia-men in the oacs community 15:56:51 I'm going to restrain my urge for a coup until nerf-based weaponry becomes more advanced. 15:56:53 * jim is only form-man right now, until I figure out these forms... 15:57:16 denshi: I just saw some new nerf toys 15:58:13 jim: can they kill a man at 20 paces? 15:58:33 I don't think they can kill a fly at one pace :) 15:58:53 denshi: how close to nsd is apache2? 15:58:54 you know you could build a nerf rail-gun, but at those speeds, the foam would vaporize. 15:59:17 apache2 is probably ignoring nsd 15:59:19 apache2.... 15:59:19 apache2 is, like, probably ignoring nsd 15:59:20 meaning, how close to seeing it as a replacement is it? will it ever be something worth considering as something "better" than nsd? 15:59:32 paje, botsnack 15:59:32 thanks denshi :) 15:59:50 i'm sure apache2 is ignoring nsd. they prolly have never heard of nsd 16:00:29 botsmack! 16:00:29 slumps into a purple haze 16:00:45 there are 3 questions above: 1) is apache2 architectually a replacement for nsd, 2) has todd finished the mod_ to emulate nsd, 3) will apache2 be 'better' than nsd in time 16:01:04 1) yes. 16:02:13 3) probably. 16:03:06 2) need to work over the tcl threading, & the cache, & transform ns_xml calls to expat calls 16:03:32 2.1) I might have to write a mod_db module. 16:05:04 2.1.1) this is because in apache land people use the db stuff from their scripting language. 16:05:19 botsnack! 16:05:26 botsmack! 16:05:26 slumps into a purple haze 16:06:19 from what i understand, the benefit of nsd is the db stuff is integrated. is this true? 16:07:35 yup 16:08:45 and it's threadded, and it's scalable 16:11:46 botsmack! 16:11:46 * paje slumps into a purple haze 16:13:21 I have to run 16:13:29 l8r 16:13:53 denshi has quit ("denshi has no reason") 16:24:59 k2pts (~nkd@213.149.180.151) has joined #openacs 16:26:38 k2pts has left #openacs 16:30:03 hi neophytos 16:30:14 * til is too slow 16:32:03 hey til 16:32:14 hey tally 16:33:23 whatsup in openacs land? 16:33:44 not much 16:35:10 have you ever been to venezuela? 16:36:41 me twice but that's long ago and i never heard anything about the politics there before 16:36:54 only lambada ;) 16:42:39 k2pts (~nkd@213.149.180.151) has joined #openacs 16:50:57 I'm trying to make a form which has a list of words, and a button with each possible word, and when you push the button, the word gets added to the list... 16:51:04 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:51:09 hi 16:51:13 hi. 16:51:24 hey davb 16:51:27 got your message 16:52:05 ah. cool. 16:52:09 I have given more on page flows and what I've told you in our last discussion is only part of the ideas I had about it...it's complicated to explain right now 16:52:15 s/more/more thought 16:52:40 the way the form is now, each button is a submit button, which has a validate clause which tries to add the word to the list 16:52:42 hey davb 16:52:49 jim: with a reload after the button push? 16:53:21 k2pts: i figured as much. you are usually way ahead of me :) 16:53:38 til: no, by making each button be a submit button... 16:54:17 originally, I envisioned 2 list boxes that you could add things to 16:55:16 jim: mozilla seems to be stable now 16:55:21 the sorta bad thing about this, is each button causes a net request 16:55:22 davb: basically I was thinking that the whole thing is wrong...OF tried to make a step in the direction I was thinking by someway programming pages (new-portal) and using acs-sc to provide the feeds but that's not all of it...it's difficult to explain because things are not very clear in mind but I have thought of a solution using xml to do the stuff I had in mind 16:55:28 talli: oh, cool :) 16:57:04 jim: if you don't want the net request then you have to resort to some javascript magic ... 16:57:13 ugh 16:57:24 I don't want to force them to turn on javascript 16:57:39 jim: what about a list of checkboxes? 16:58:32 k2pts: ok. I will wait until you have it more clear. 16:58:43 heh 16:58:53 I have this weird arrangement where one of my procs dips 4 stack frames down to get the caller's env (and I have -no- idea if that "4" will stay the same) 16:59:24 really, I have alot of stuff to work on anyway. I do want to finish up ETP 2 so that is works. and I want to make a portlet for new-portal for etp 2. 16:59:26 it's that proc (that dips 4 frames down) that is called by each button's validator 17:00:45 I'm trying to make them keep track of a -list- of words, and a comma-separated string of the same words 17:01:51 what's a portal? 17:02:05 jim: part of dot-lrn 17:02:12 hopefully coming son to openacs. 17:02:14 a page that aggregates data 17:02:26 data feeds that is 17:02:31 or applets 17:03:18 jim: i don't see how that deep leveled proc is related to the button/checkboxes form 17:03:30 hey til 17:03:44 jim: you have a list of possible words, and some of them can be selected, right? 17:03:50 hey neophytos! 17:03:57 how's it going? 17:04:09 glad you stay for longer then a 10th of a second as before ;) 17:04:15 heh 17:04:28 I'm relaxing these days (as I have been doing past couple of months) 17:04:41 defining more closely... the "words" name the sharps in sharp key signatures 17:05:09 there are 7: F# C# G# D# A# E# B# 17:05:11 jim: use Flash! :) 17:05:24 relaxing and hacking for fun are no contradictions ;) 17:05:55 jim: or a C# plugin maybe ;) 17:06:13 I'll need the other 6 sharps... 17:07:05 maybe gnome will come up with D#, then you are already almost there 17:07:17 that order is the order of sharps as they would appear in any sharp key 17:07:44 I want to present them in a different order... and have the user pick them in the correct order 17:07:53 ah, now i see 17:08:29 right now, it's always replacing the first element 17:08:53 so I'm not sure I'm doing the form right 17:09:07 what about a list of dropdown lists - each of them contains all #'s 17:09:29 and a -- for no sharp at that position 17:10:18 gotta go. 17:12:29 til: then they wouldn't have to put them in order tho ;) 17:12:45 jim: yes they would 17:12:52 oic, multiple choice, which is in order/ 17:13:27 I'm really close tho :) 17:13:49 what i mean is: a list of dropdown boxes, each representing a possible position, like 1. sharp, 2nd sharp and so on. and each of the dropdowns contain _all_ F#, C#, ... 17:14:25 oh, I see now 17:14:48 doing meaningful gui's in html is always a bit strange ... 17:15:25 now with that design one could pick F# F# F# which would make no sense, but i guess that is ok 17:15:51 people remember the order with "fat cats get dingos and elephants butt" 17:16:12 and if you want to know why these things are bad for cats... 17:16:27 "but elephants and dingos get cats fat" 17:16:50 haha 17:17:19 (because this, is the order of -flats- that appear in flat key signatures...) 17:18:15 Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb Fb 17:18:50 (but that's a whole nother drill, which will use most of the code I'm writing now) 17:21:09 one of the main sticking points, is I'm not setting the -action parameter on any of the buttons, which means they hit the same page... 17:22:21 and I'm not sure how to make the form page part and the response page part be able to live together... 17:22:30 thats the way to go, jim 17:22:45 I think I'm wiping out results every time I create a form 17:22:57 look at the groups admin pages in oacs, there are some ...-delete pages that use two buttons 17:25:20 one for 17:25:29 one for "yes" and one for "no"... 17:25:40 jim: exactly 17:26:08 and the target is the same page. although it sends a redirect at the end, but it could as well display something 17:26:59 ok... 17:27:09 let me look at that 17:31:22 how do I find out if "this" request is to do a form response? 17:32:29 I saw form is_response... 17:32:49 ?? you mean is_request 17:33:00 err, yeah 17:33:04 tired :) 17:33:11 which is IMHO a misnomer, should be called is_initial_request or something 17:33:21 right... 17:33:23 form response gets handled in is_valid 17:40:29 * jim finds export_vars, notes this is part of this, but maybe a bit far away for now 17:41:17 bye guys 17:41:21 k2pts has left #openacs 17:41:41 but, one of the things I don't understand anymore is how to get the values from the form,,, does it come thru ad_page_contract like for html link vars? 17:42:10 yes 17:43:05 and if I have a validate proc that returns 1 (which I do), I should get the var in the TCL env? 17:43:47 don't know how to write validate procs, sorry 17:44:00 np 17:44:15 ok, if I don't have any validators, 17:44:44 (or every validator says "valid") 17:49:26 hmm... 17:53:36 I need to go for now... thanks for the help so far... 17:58:27 np 18:52:42 afternoon, all! 19:27:15 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs 19:47:14 1 hello 20:19:06 talli is now known as barstool 20:20:10 barstool is now known as talli 20:20:59 talli is now known as barstool 20:23:54 madvenu (madvenu@203.197.80.32) has joined #openacs 20:31:36 madvenu has quit ("Client Exiting") 22:39:47 ooom? 23:04:48 hi rbm 23:13:15 argh 23:13:26 nsxml/xslt does not like encodings... 23:30:51 markd2 (~Snak@h166-102-041-115.ip.alltel.net) has joined #openacs