IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

02:49:25 [davb]
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04:25:06 [davb]
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13:06:22 [talilee_]
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13:06:28 [talilee_]
talilee_ is now known as talilee
14:48:07 [djg]
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15:01:52 [jim]
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15:16:51 [talli]
anybody home this morn?
15:17:48 [djg]
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15:17:58 [denshi]
denshi (toddg@linux128.ma.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs
15:18:04 [jim]
Hi... looks like I have to relearn forms
15:18:29 [jim]
* jim tries to do this by himself...
15:18:38 [denshi]
which forms?
15:20:07 [talli]
yo jim, denshi
15:20:42 [talli]
anyone catch the challenge to free software on the boards today?>
15:21:07 [jim]
whereboards?
15:21:07 [talli]
should i wait to see how bad simon gets flamed?
15:21:19 [talli]
oacs bboards, in the "building track and field website"
15:21:29 [jim]
ahh
15:21:44 [jim]
haven't checked my mail yet...
15:22:01 [talli]
has anyone been having probs with the latest mozilla on KDE3/debian unstable?
15:22:10 [jim]
denshi: acs html forms
15:22:41 [jim]
talli: everyone's been complaining
15:22:52 [talli]
ah, ok
15:22:52 [talli]
cool
15:23:10 [jim]
I think there's a new moz in incomign
15:23:11 [talli]
jim: as far as forms, did you see luke's form builder?
15:23:18 [talli]
dunno if it's what you're looking for...
15:23:35 [denshi]
I now enter the bboard flame...
15:23:53 [talli]
hold on!
15:23:57 [talli]
lemme post first
15:23:59 [jim]
no, well, I just need to get values back, and I thought I could get em from saying in ad_page_contract that I wanted them
15:24:12 [talli]
i would like to try and keep it from getting too nasty as simon has contributed a lot
15:24:24 [talli]
he just doesn't understand open source != free
15:24:33 [talli]
jim: ah, i see
15:24:56 [denshi]
actually, he's just factually incorrect about which licenses are being used in his examples.
15:25:13 [jim]
I think I confirmed that by looking at my room reservation system
15:25:14 [denshi]
post after I correct that, plz. it will be usefu to you, too.
15:25:32 [talli]
ok, cool
15:25:41 [talli]
he does deserve a flame or two, though ;)
15:25:52 [talli]
he says some stupid shit.
15:26:05 [talli]
but he's been a good contributor
15:26:25 [talli]
although he has asked this question before, so he's been trying to push this for a while
15:26:27 [jim]
but if I create a form, then I submit that form to the same page, where do all the values go?
15:26:41 [jim]
am I right about ad_p_c?
15:26:48 [talli]
beats me
15:26:52 [talli]
where's davb?
15:26:53 [paje]
hmmm... davb is akk ut tajes
15:26:59 [talli]
he's the friggin expert about this stuff
15:27:19 [jim]
he's the friggin expert about alot L:)
15:27:27 [talli]
yeah.
15:27:54 [talli]
jim: what have people been complaining about re: mozilla? the latest release or moz on kde3?
15:28:04 [jim]
I'm making some funky music drill forms :)
15:28:14 [jim]
ummm
15:28:19 [jim]
dunno exactly
15:28:41 [jim]
I tend to ignore, cause I don't want to use sid yet
15:29:04 [djg]
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15:29:05 [denshi]
hey, where's luke's form builder?
15:29:07 [talli]
well, it seems that i'm getting moz 0.9.9.6 with my "apt-get upgrade gaim" so hopefully there will be a fix there
15:29:22 [jim]
ok, the fix is in then
15:29:32 [jim]
you mean 0.9.9-6?
15:29:45 [talli]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004FE&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12
15:29:45 [oacs-chump]
A: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004FE&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12 from talli
15:29:54 [talli]
anlater: LukeP
15:30:03 [talli]
anlater: lukep's form builder
15:30:05 [talli]
oh shit
15:30:13 [talli]
can someone comment the link for me?
15:30:40 [jim]
(the - is important: to the left is upstream, to the right is number of times that version has been uploaded/updated
15:30:50 [jim]
A:
15:30:50 [oacs-chump]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004FE&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12
15:30:51 [talli]
ah, ok
15:30:55 [jim]
anlater:
15:30:57 [denshi]
A: Luke Pond's form builder
15:30:57 [oacs-chump]
added comment A1
15:32:09 [denshi]
talli, you post. simon makes a lot of cogent arguments.
15:32:22 [jim]
a debian package file name will have <packagename>_version.deb
15:32:48 [jim]
the version will be as above...
15:33:04 [talli]
denshi: he makes cogent arguments if it's not free software
15:33:16 [talli]
but it is! and it should be!
15:33:23 [denshi]
oh, talli, I forgot, I have to start hating you now.
15:34:07 [talli]
why, what did i do?
15:34:14 [talli]
take your girl? get used to it
15:34:20 [denshi]
that's unrelated to oacs, btw, just NYC.
15:34:42 [talli]
did some beautiful woman you've coveted move to NYC?
15:34:46 [jim]
the upstream part is the version of the thing that was packaged
15:35:30 [denshi]
nah, in two months she's going.
15:36:13 [denshi]
what's your miserable town have that I don't?
15:36:30 [talli]
uh, culture?
15:36:40 [talli]
why do you hate me?
15:36:50 [talli]
because you are a redneck in a podunk town?
15:37:42 [denshi]
rebutting your arguemtns are difficult since I haven't been there.
15:38:15 [denshi]
I'll have to visit you and vinod and engage in some intense talli-hating for a weekend
15:39:49 [talli]
neat
15:39:55 [talli]
but why do you hate me?
15:40:07 [talli]
any particular reason, or just because you're petty?
15:40:15 [denshi]
ah well. when you date dance majors, you know they're going to go to NYC eventually.
15:40:46 [denshi]
hate == dumb joke. poor idiom chopice over here.
15:41:14 [denshi]
did you ever get together with that dancer you met on the train?
15:42:19 [talli]
no, i didn;t
15:42:32 [talli]
i went to her show with her friend, and briefly spoke with her after the show
15:42:55 [talli]
but she had a lot of friends visiting, and i was sick, so there was even less talli charm available to woo her with
15:43:01 [denshi]
d'oh.
15:43:26 [talilee]
talilee has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:43:31 [denshi]
I'm still trying to categorize everyone I met this weekend.
15:43:37 [talli]
good. i didn't like that talilee guy anyway
15:45:37 [denshi]
luke's stuff looks cool
15:45:59 [talli]
luke's stuff usually is
15:48:06 [talli]
i found out on friday that one of the mozilla developers works in my office
15:48:13 [talli]
he sublets space from modernhumorist
15:48:43 [talli]
everytime mozilla crashes, i'll just scoot over there and give him a head's up
15:50:43 [talli]
venezuela rocks!!!
15:51:02 [denshi]
why, because they won't extradite you?
15:51:51 [talli]
have you followed what's gone on the past couple of days?
15:52:02 [talli]
venezuela is the 3rd largest supplier of oil to the US
15:52:21 [talli]
a couple of years ago, a leftist/populist president was elected to lead the country
15:52:47 [talli]
he has pissed off the US immeasurably as he's nationalized the oil industry down there and pushed OPEC to raise prices
15:53:20 [talli]
a couple of days ago, a coup happened that was supported by venezuelan business and oil interests
15:53:58 [talli]
this happened after a large demonstration occured that was protesting some of chavez's oil policies. soldiers opened fire and killed 16 people (a very bad thing)
15:54:26 [talli]
however, after the coup occured, populist demonstrations erupted calling for chavez's return.
15:54:41 [talli]
the new government also saw defections by many military officers
15:54:58 [talli]
yesterday, the new president resigned and chavez was restored to power
15:55:35 [talli]
are there many freaky right-wingers in this channel who are joining denshi in his hatred of me?
15:55:46 [talli]
i know there are plenty of militia-men in the oacs community
15:56:51 [denshi]
I'm going to restrain my urge for a coup until nerf-based weaponry becomes more advanced.
15:56:53 [jim]
* jim is only form-man right now, until I figure out these forms...
15:57:16 [jim]
denshi: I just saw some new nerf toys
15:58:13 [denshi]
jim: can they kill a man at 20 paces?
15:58:33 [jim]
I don't think they can kill a fly at one pace :)
15:58:53 [talli]
denshi: how close to nsd is apache2?
15:58:54 [denshi]
you know you could build a nerf rail-gun, but at those speeds, the foam would vaporize.
15:59:17 [jim]
apache2 is probably ignoring nsd
15:59:19 [denshi]
apache2....
15:59:19 [paje]
apache2 is, like, probably ignoring nsd
15:59:20 [talli]
meaning, how close to seeing it as a replacement is it? will it ever be something worth considering as something "better" than nsd?
15:59:32 [denshi]
paje, botsnack
15:59:32 [paje]
thanks denshi :)
15:59:50 [talli]
i'm sure apache2 is ignoring nsd. they prolly have never heard of nsd
16:00:29 [jim]
botsmack!
16:00:29 [paje]
slumps into a purple haze
16:00:45 [denshi]
there are 3 questions above: 1) is apache2 architectually a replacement for nsd, 2) has todd finished the mod_ to emulate nsd, 3) will apache2 be 'better' than nsd in time
16:01:04 [denshi]
1) yes.
16:02:13 [denshi]
3) probably.
16:03:06 [denshi]
2) need to work over the tcl threading, & the cache, & transform ns_xml calls to expat calls
16:03:32 [denshi]
2.1) I might have to write a mod_db module.
16:05:04 [denshi]
2.1.1) this is because in apache land people use the db stuff from their scripting language.
16:05:19 [denshi]
botsnack!
16:05:26 [denshi]
botsmack!
16:05:26 [paje]
slumps into a purple haze
16:06:19 [talli]
from what i understand, the benefit of nsd is the db stuff is integrated. is this true?
16:07:35 [denshi]
yup
16:08:45 [jim]
and it's threadded, and it's scalable
16:11:46 [jim]
botsmack!
16:11:46 [paje]
* paje slumps into a purple haze
16:13:21 [denshi]
I have to run
16:13:29 [denshi]
l8r
16:13:53 [denshi]
denshi has quit ("denshi has no reason")
16:24:59 [k2pts]
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16:30:03 [til]
hi neophytos
16:30:14 [til]
* til is too slow
16:32:03 [talli]
hey til
16:32:14 [til]
hey tally
16:33:23 [til]
whatsup in openacs land?
16:33:44 [talli]
not much
16:35:10 [til]
have you ever been to venezuela?
16:36:41 [til]
me twice but that's long ago and i never heard anything about the politics there before
16:36:54 [til]
only lambada ;)
16:42:39 [k2pts]
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16:50:57 [jim]
I'm trying to make a form which has a list of words, and a button with each possible word, and when you push the button, the word gets added to the list...
16:51:04 [davb]
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16:51:09 [davb]
hi
16:51:13 [jim]
hi.
16:51:24 [k2pts]
hey davb
16:51:27 [k2pts]
got your message
16:52:05 [davb]
ah. cool.
16:52:09 [k2pts]
I have given more on page flows and what I've told you in our last discussion is only part of the ideas I had about it...it's complicated to explain right now
16:52:15 [k2pts]
s/more/more thought
16:52:40 [jim]
the way the form is now, each button is a submit button, which has a validate clause which tries to add the word to the list
16:52:42 [talli]
hey davb
16:52:49 [til]
jim: with a reload after the button push?
16:53:21 [davb]
k2pts: i figured as much. you are usually way ahead of me :)
16:53:38 [jim]
til: no, by making each button be a submit button...
16:54:17 [jim]
originally, I envisioned 2 list boxes that you could add things to
16:55:16 [talli]
jim: mozilla seems to be stable now
16:55:21 [jim]
the sorta bad thing about this, is each button causes a net request
16:55:22 [k2pts]
davb: basically I was thinking that the whole thing is wrong...OF tried to make a step in the direction I was thinking by someway programming pages (new-portal) and using acs-sc to provide the feeds but that's not all of it...it's difficult to explain because things are not very clear in mind but I have thought of a solution using xml to do the stuff I had in mind
16:55:28 [jim]
talli: oh, cool :)
16:57:04 [til]
jim: if you don't want the net request then you have to resort to some javascript magic ...
16:57:13 [jim]
ugh
16:57:24 [jim]
I don't want to force them to turn on javascript
16:57:39 [til]
jim: what about a list of checkboxes?
16:58:32 [davb]
k2pts: ok. I will wait until you have it more clear.
16:58:43 [k2pts]
heh
16:58:53 [jim]
I have this weird arrangement where one of my procs dips 4 stack frames down to get the caller's env (and I have -no- idea if that "4" will stay the same)
16:59:24 [davb]
really, I have alot of stuff to work on anyway. I do want to finish up ETP 2 so that is works. and I want to make a portlet for new-portal for etp 2.
16:59:26 [jim]
it's that proc (that dips 4 frames down) that is called by each button's validator
17:00:45 [jim]
I'm trying to make them keep track of a -list- of words, and a comma-separated string of the same words
17:01:51 [jim]
what's a portal?
17:02:05 [davb]
jim: part of dot-lrn
17:02:12 [davb]
hopefully coming son to openacs.
17:02:14 [k2pts]
a page that aggregates data
17:02:26 [k2pts]
data feeds that is
17:02:31 [k2pts]
or applets
17:03:18 [til]
jim: i don't see how that deep leveled proc is related to the button/checkboxes form
17:03:30 [k2pts]
hey til
17:03:44 [til]
jim: you have a list of possible words, and some of them can be selected, right?
17:03:50 [til]
hey neophytos!
17:03:57 [k2pts]
how's it going?
17:04:09 [til]
glad you stay for longer then a 10th of a second as before ;)
17:04:15 [k2pts]
heh
17:04:28 [k2pts]
I'm relaxing these days (as I have been doing past couple of months)
17:04:41 [jim]
defining more closely... the "words" name the sharps in sharp key signatures
17:05:09 [jim]
there are 7: F# C# G# D# A# E# B#
17:05:11 [davb]
jim: use Flash! :)
17:05:24 [til]
relaxing and hacking for fun are no contradictions ;)
17:05:55 [til]
jim: or a C# plugin maybe ;)
17:06:13 [jim]
I'll need the other 6 sharps...
17:07:05 [til]
maybe gnome will come up with D#, then you are already almost there
17:07:17 [jim]
that order is the order of sharps as they would appear in any sharp key
17:07:44 [jim]
I want to present them in a different order... and have the user pick them in the correct order
17:07:53 [til]
ah, now i see
17:08:29 [jim]
right now, it's always replacing the first element
17:08:53 [jim]
so I'm not sure I'm doing the form right
17:09:07 [til]
what about a list of dropdown lists - each of them contains all #'s
17:09:29 [til]
and a -- for no sharp at that position
17:10:18 [davb]
gotta go.
17:12:29 [jim]
til: then they wouldn't have to put them in order tho ;)
17:12:45 [til]
jim: yes they would
17:12:52 [jim]
oic, multiple choice, which is in order/
17:13:27 [jim]
I'm really close tho :)
17:13:49 [til]
what i mean is: a list of dropdown boxes, each representing a possible position, like 1. sharp, 2nd sharp and so on. and each of the dropdowns contain _all_ F#, C#, ...
17:14:25 [jim]
oh, I see now
17:14:48 [til]
doing meaningful gui's in html is always a bit strange ...
17:15:25 [til]
now with that design one could pick F# F# F# which would make no sense, but i guess that is ok
17:15:51 [jim]
people remember the order with "fat cats get dingos and elephants butt"
17:16:12 [jim]
and if you want to know why these things are bad for cats...
17:16:27 [jim]
"but elephants and dingos get cats fat"
17:16:50 [til]
haha
17:17:19 [jim]
(because this, is the order of -flats- that appear in flat key signatures...)
17:18:15 [jim]
Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb Fb
17:18:50 [jim]
(but that's a whole nother drill, which will use most of the code I'm writing now)
17:21:09 [jim]
one of the main sticking points, is I'm not setting the -action parameter on any of the buttons, which means they hit the same page...
17:22:21 [jim]
and I'm not sure how to make the form page part and the response page part be able to live together...
17:22:30 [til]
thats the way to go, jim
17:22:45 [jim]
I think I'm wiping out results every time I create a form
17:22:57 [til]
look at the groups admin pages in oacs, there are some ...-delete pages that use two buttons
17:25:20 [jim]
one for
17:25:29 [jim]
one for "yes" and one for "no"...
17:25:40 [til]
jim: exactly
17:26:08 [til]
and the target is the same page. although it sends a redirect at the end, but it could as well display something
17:26:59 [jim]
ok...
17:27:09 [jim]
let me look at that
17:31:22 [jim]
how do I find out if "this" request is to do a form response?
17:32:29 [jim]
I saw form is_response...
17:32:49 [til]
?? you mean is_request
17:33:00 [jim]
err, yeah
17:33:04 [jim]
tired :)
17:33:11 [til]
which is IMHO a misnomer, should be called is_initial_request or something
17:33:21 [jim]
right...
17:33:23 [til]
form response gets handled in is_valid
17:40:29 [jim]
* jim finds export_vars, notes this is part of this, but maybe a bit far away for now
17:41:17 [k2pts]
bye guys
17:41:21 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
17:41:41 [jim]
but, one of the things I don't understand anymore is how to get the values from the form,,, does it come thru ad_page_contract like for html link vars?
17:42:10 [til]
yes
17:43:05 [jim]
and if I have a validate proc that returns 1 (which I do), I should get the var in the TCL env?
17:43:47 [til]
don't know how to write validate procs, sorry
17:44:00 [jim]
np
17:44:15 [jim]
ok, if I don't have any validators,
17:44:44 [jim]
(or every validator says "valid")
17:49:26 [jim]
hmm...
17:53:36 [jim]
I need to go for now... thanks for the help so far...
17:58:27 [til]
np
18:52:42 [GEM]
afternoon, all!
19:27:15 [hazmat]
hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
19:47:14 [hazmat]
1 hello
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talli is now known as barstool
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22:39:47 [rbm]
ooom?
23:04:48 [davb]
hi rbm
23:13:15 [davb]
argh
23:13:26 [davb]
nsxml/xslt does not like encodings...
23:30:51 [markd2]
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