IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:43 [davb]

ms: what does subsite aware mean to you? I think it means that the package can be mounted under different subsites and not step all over itself.

00:00:55 [davb]

not that one instance is mounted at the top and works in all subsites...

00:01:24 [ms]

yeah, that's how i'm thinking of it.

00:01:33 [ms]

right

00:02:08 [ms]

that seems to be the intent to me, at least.

00:03:37 [davb]

ok.

00:04:20 [davb]

VB rivals pg/plsql for obtuse error messages

00:05:48 [rbm]

wow

00:06:08 [rbm]

http://www.dashpc.com/

00:06:09 [oacs-chump]

A: http://www.dashpc.com/ from rbm

00:06:22 [rbm]

A:| Put Linux on the dashboard of your car

00:06:22 [oacs-chump]

titled item A

00:06:48 [rbm]

* rbm tries to build libqt3-psql for the 15th time

00:07:03 [rbm]

It takes a _long_ time to build it on my super-slow machine

00:21:20 [davb]

* davb stops thinking about VB....

00:38:54 [ms]

anybody here ever run the oracle data migration assistant? i'm running it at the moment - disks are churning but i've seen no progress in a while. curious how long it normally takes to do its thing.

00:39:25 [ms]

going from 8.1.6 to 8.1.7

00:39:42 [davb]

probably an extremely long time...

00:41:09 [rbm]

* rbm notes that building Qt3 is a tedious and long process

01:07:45 [talli]

talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs

01:08:18 [rbm]

moo talli

01:08:29 [talli]

hey rbm

01:08:44 [davb]

hi talli

01:08:51 [talli]

hey davb

01:09:01 [talli]

how yous guys doin'?

01:09:16 [rbm]

Got Tora to work and I must say I'm impressed. Very nice tool.

01:09:32 [talli]

killer

01:09:35 [rbm]

Now I don't have to run that slow, memory-hog Java foo anymore.

01:09:37 [talli]

how does it work with PG so far?

01:09:48 [talli]

have you looked at the license for PGAdmin?

01:10:02 [rbm]

Works good. even does syntax highlighting for PL/pgSQL (as much as it matches Oracle's)

01:10:09 [davb]

cool!

01:10:09 [talli]

nice

01:10:13 [davb]

i need to try that.

01:10:30 [rbm]

It has all these "templates" you can store

01:10:30 [rbm]

brb

01:10:37 [talli]

i mentioned it to luke, and he said that it doesn't quite do PL/pgSQL debugging yet

01:10:46 [talli]

then it will be a perfect IDE for PG

01:13:43 [talli]

rbm: have you seen the license for PGadmin?

01:16:39 [rbm]

talli: I haven't tried the PL/pgSQL debugging foo yet. I'd assume it doesn't do pg very well, since it was really intended for Oracle (Tora == Toolkit For ORAcle)

01:16:47 [rbm]

errr, you get the idea

01:16:52 [talli]

yeah

01:16:58 [rbm]

talli: No. I thought it was BSD'ish isn't it?

01:17:19 [talli]

actually, though, the original developer of TOra posted on the mailing list today that he wants to change the name to Tosqel

01:17:31 [rbm]

Oh, that should be good.

01:17:37 [talli]

because the tool will begin to support PG and MySQL too

01:17:46 [talli]

the license for PGAdmin is stupid and nasty

01:18:39 [rbm]

* rbm looks at said license

01:18:40 [talli]

it basically says that you can use this for free for now and build it into your apps, but if we ever decide to change the license and make it proprietary you will have to pay us 10K for each copy you sold

01:18:49 [rbm]

I guess they'll never get any modifications.

01:18:57 [talli]

yeah

01:20:10 [rbm]

"In this case the licencee only retains the right to use the..." <-- apparently they can't spell either

01:21:12 [rbm]

Argh! They changed all the screenshots to be on an XP machine

01:30:41 [rbm]

* rbm sees the horror of VB

01:30:54 [davb]

aiiighhhh

01:31:02 [davb]

That is what I am doing at work.

01:31:10 [davb]

well VBA anyway, close enough

01:31:15 [rbm]

http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin2/basActions.bas?rev=1.14&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

01:31:16 [oacs-chump]

B: http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin2/basActions.bas?rev=1.14&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup from rbm

01:31:35 [rbm]

Is VB really case-sensitive? I see a lot of "For Foo In This Than That"

01:32:02 [davb]

not that I am aware of.

01:32:14 [davb]

but the vb editor automagically capitalized stuff

01:32:28 [rbm]

That's D*MN UGLY!

01:32:30 [davb]

argh, my sound card mysteriously stopped working

01:32:37 [davb]

but the modules are all loaded

01:32:41 [talli]

i don't understand people who license software under terms protecting them if they go proprietary

01:32:51 [davb]

yeah, just sell it.

01:32:55 [talli]

why not go proprietary in the first place?

01:33:14 [rbm]

talli: pgadmin was proprietary, but since it's pretty crappy nobody bought it.

01:33:18 [talli]

no one will help you if you tell them you're going to take their work

01:33:28 [talli]

rbm: ah... that explains it

01:33:40 [rbm]

So they opened up to get some "clients"

01:33:50 [talli]

and none came running...

01:34:17 [rbm]

I doubt they'd ever see the $10,000 if they switched licenses

01:35:23 [talli]

there was a really good article on newforge about how the GPL or GPL-compliant software is the best license to get developers to participate

01:35:25 [talli]

lemme find it

01:36:17 [rbm]

* rbm prepares psychologically to go into the world of PHP

01:36:34 [davb]

how hard a brick wall does that require?

01:36:41 [rbm]

:)

01:37:04 [talli]

http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/17201.html

01:37:04 [oacs-chump]

C: http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/17201.html from talli

01:37:39 [talli]

C: "If your project is not GPL-compatible, you may not receive the necessary support from other developers to sustain your project. Many OSS/FS developers prefer the GPL because they believe it provides a better quid-pro-quo for developers, establishes collaboration between companies (better than consortia) and/or encourages an increase in the amount of Free Software. "

01:37:40 [oacs-chump]

added comment C1

01:37:42 [talli]

so, so true

01:37:47 [talli]

ok, gotta head out to see some music

01:37:52 [talli]

talk to you guys later

01:38:32 [davb]

see music?

01:38:34 [davb]

have fun

01:39:23 [davb]

I seem to have screwed up my sound modules when I upgraded kernels

01:43:30 [rbm]

which card?

01:43:43 [rbm]

* rbm debates going to the study group session in 15 minutes.

01:45:42 [davb]

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6368227'.WKU.&OS=PN/6368227&RS=PN/6368227

01:45:43 [oacs-chump]

D: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6368227'.WKU.&OS=PN/6368227&RS=PN/6368227 from davb

01:46:05 [davb]

rbm: FM801 PCI card

01:46:08 [davb]

study what?

01:47:37 [davb]

D: is this for real?

01:47:37 [oacs-chump]

added comment D1

01:49:21 [rbm]

Wow

01:50:11 [rbm]

davb: multimedia development, coding and compression algorithms, etc.

01:50:13 [rbm]

* rbm leaves

01:50:18 [davb]

cool.

01:56:51 [davb]

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01:59:20 [ms]

ms has quit ()

08:11:15 [talli]

talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

08:14:00 [talli]

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12:40:41 [davb]

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13:00:39 [davb]

hello

13:00:39 [paje]

privet, davb

13:29:38 [markd2]

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13:34:24 [Psychephylax]

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13:34:27 [Psychephylax]

Morning

13:39:26 [markd2]

'moaning

13:40:42 [Psychephylax]

Hey mark

13:40:47 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax gives mark a bagel

13:46:03 [Psychephylax]

not impressed with the bagel?

13:46:17 [davb]

hi Psychephylax

13:46:20 [davb]

its not a cookie

13:54:58 [markdfoo]

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13:55:12 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax gives Mark a cookie

13:55:16 [Psychephylax]

Hi Dave

13:55:39 [markdfoo]

cookies!

13:56:06 [Psychephylax]

:)

14:00:57 [markd2]

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14:01:04 [markdfoo]

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14:01:41 [Psychephylax]

this sucks

14:01:52 [Psychephylax]

I have 0 motivation to do ANY work today

14:01:59 [markd2]

amen brotha

14:03:56 [davb]

heh, want to hack VBA for me?

14:13:39 [rbm]

morning all

14:13:48 [rbm]

* rbm would rather be sleeping than studying :-)

14:14:26 [davb]

* davb would rather be studying than hacking VBA

14:14:49 [rbm]

amen to that too

14:33:25 [markd2]

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14:36:50 [markd2]

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15:02:10 [til]

morning

15:02:17 [Psychephylax]

hi til

15:02:26 [til]

heya

15:03:37 [til]

i have a little cvs trouble: i commited a fix in the spam package by accident not for the intended beta branch

15:03:51 [til]

now HEAD is 1.2, and beta is 1.1

15:04:33 [til]

could i do cvs tag myself and move the beta tag forward?

15:19:55 [davb]

* davb does not know

15:20:07 [davb]

infiltration of dotlrn starting...

15:20:27 [davb]

maybe anyway. at least one other person, including the big boss has looked at dotlrn.mit.edu anyway.

15:52:22 [Psychephylax]

brb

16:09:11 [k2pts]

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16:09:27 [davb]

hi k2pts

16:09:39 [k2pts]

hey dave

16:09:50 [k2pts]

what's the word in the openacs land? :)

16:11:00 [markd2]

hiya!

16:11:07 [davb]

vba sucks

16:11:13 [k2pts]

hey markd2

16:20:03 [davb]

has anyone else ever used VB?

16:20:08 [davb]

I think I need a book :)

16:20:21 [markd2]

Happily I've avoided most major MS technologies so far

16:20:35 [davb]

lucky you.

16:20:40 [davb]

this is what they are paying me for.

16:20:51 [davb]

but I still might be able to sneak in dotlrn or openacs ...

16:21:11 [k2pts]

you are computer illiterated in cyprus (and greece) if you don't use ms tools...no kidding here

16:21:29 [k2pts]

I don't know of anyone else beside me using postgresql in cyprus

16:21:47 [k2pts]

most of the software development is done with ms tools

16:22:37 [davb]

I am sure I am doing something stupid...

16:22:55 [davb]

maybe I'll stop at borders on lunch to "browse"

16:38:52 [davb]

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16:39:28 [davb]

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16:46:18 [davb]

* davb is going to lunch

16:59:14 [k2pts]

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17:03:09 [talli]

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17:04:25 [markd2]

Connection reset by beer

17:55:33 [oacs-logger]

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17:55:33 [vinge.openprojects.net]

topic is: OpenACS | Free Web Toolkit | Testers Needed: http://213.107.207.131:8000

17:55:33 [vinge.openprojects.net]

Users on #openacs: oacs-logger talli davb Psychephylax rbm GEM til _djg_ tontsa oacs-chump shagster paje

17:55:33 [ChanServ]

[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

17:56:28 [talli]

we're just doing a bit of system arrangement

17:56:58 [talli]

we're hosting a netbsd package server, and the netbsd developer/sysadmin had to move the hubs around a bit

17:59:08 [markd2]

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18:01:11 [talilee]

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18:02:16 [davb]

talilee: i didn't know you were such a free software mogul

18:04:53 [talilee]

talilee is now known as talli

18:05:02 [talli]

davb: there's much you don't know about me

18:05:34 [talli]

* talli puts the finishing touches on his mascara, checks his hose and slips into his pumps before heading to the brothel

18:06:47 [davb]

* davb starts to change his mind about the openacs "social"

18:07:02 [talli]

haha

18:10:29 [markd2]

just bring cash

18:11:53 [talli]

and you're own pasties

18:12:05 [talli]

hey markd2, you're near Pittsburgh?

18:12:55 [talli]

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18:14:38 [markd2]

uh, yeah

18:17:44 [talli]

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18:17:52 [markd2]

yep, I'm near Pittsboigh

18:19:56 [talli]

do you want to have an Pitt OACS social?

18:20:05 [markd2]

I think I'd go blind if I did that

18:20:10 [markd2]

since it'd just be me

18:20:36 [markd2]

unless there's other oacs goons in this area

18:20:48 [talli]

what about all of your wplug bots? (and i do mean bots)

18:21:00 [markd2]

they're all php or java heads

18:21:03 [talli]

there must be plenty of nerds in pitt that would come out for beer and nerd talk

18:21:11 [markd2]

mmmm... beer...

18:21:19 [markd2]

folks can come out this way

18:21:29 [markd2]

visit the farm and "play" with the cows and chickens

18:21:32 [markd2]

no goats, sorry

18:21:48 [talli]

* talli is taken aback

18:21:56 [talli]

*NO* goats?

18:22:06 [markd2]

nope

18:22:10 [markd2]

that's why I get all my goat action on the channel

18:23:06 [talli]

ok, well wherever. a social in the pitt area might be cool

18:23:11 [talli]

get some more nerds together

18:23:27 [talli]

to tcl some bots, if ya catch my drift

18:23:29 [markd2]

come down and give a talk to our LUG

18:23:55 [talli]

so you can throw tomatoes at me?

18:24:53 [markd2]

well. pierogies

18:25:10 [talli]

make it a cheese steak and i will wear my thong

18:27:12 [markd2]

dressing up for the occasion? we'd be honored!

18:39:38 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

18:42:35 [denshi]

no anarchy here?

18:46:15 [denshi]

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18:48:22 [markd2]

dang! and I just got my mohawk arranged

19:09:36 [markd2]

http://www.conceptlabs.co.uk/alicebob.html

19:09:36 [oacs-chump]

E: http://www.conceptlabs.co.uk/alicebob.html from markd2

19:09:36 [_djg_]

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19:09:45 [markd2]

E:| The *real* story of Alice and Bob

19:09:45 [oacs-chump]

titled item E

19:16:04 [markd2]

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19:54:46 [davb]

hmmm, i can't pass something like an array of list in VB, this sucks

19:55:28 [davb]

you can pass a reference to an object, but when the function completes the object disappears, making the reference invalid

20:04:40 [talli]

davb: why are you using VB?

20:05:22 [talli]

btw, i've decided to learn netbsd

20:06:13 [talli]

this weekend i installed RH on a PII200 with 32 mbs of ram and 2 GB of HD

20:06:18 [davb]

access development.

20:06:25 [talli]

ugly

20:06:27 [davb]

metnsd is way cooler

20:06:34 [davb]

it almost pays the bills

20:06:47 [talli]

RH installed 632 MB of libraries and crap

20:06:52 [davb]

ack

20:07:10 [davb]

I like debian. you can install a nice minimal system easily

20:07:19 [davb]

metnsd?

20:07:19 [paje]

rumour has it metnsd is way cooler

20:07:27 [davb]

woah, i need to learn typing.

20:07:29 [davb]

thanks pahe

20:07:31 [davb]

thanks paje

20:07:37 [davb]

paje, thanks

20:07:37 [talli]

yeah, i didn't have debian handy

20:07:37 [paje]

davb: de rien

20:07:40 [davb]

what?

20:07:53 [talli]

but i thought about gentoo becuase they had a 15MB install disk

20:08:00 [davb]

that is cool.

20:08:03 [talli]

but they suggested at least 64MB of ram for install

20:08:09 [talli]

then i looked at netbsd

20:08:27 [talli]

they docs said that if you have very little ram, here is a suggestion for how to install

20:08:34 [davb]

nice.

20:08:50 [talli]

later on they mention that "very little ram" means less than 4 MB !!!

20:09:06 [talli]

so i figure those guys must know what they are doing

20:09:21 [davb]

wow.

20:09:33 [talli]

also, my friend has been filling me with so much netbsd propoganda, i gotta check it out

20:09:39 [davb]

maybe i'll try that on my p200

20:10:20 [talli]

i offered to let him stick a hacked amiga 1u server on office T1 that he's using for amiga port build tests

20:10:39 [talli]

he hacked a beeeeaaaauuuuut of a box

20:11:04 [davb]

that is very intersting.

20:12:00 [davb]

talli: btw, everything is all set for me to attend the boston area social

20:12:11 [talli]

killer!

20:12:15 [talli]

do you need a place to crash?

20:12:53 [talli]

btw, davb, don't try building a dual boot netbsd box

20:13:09 [talli]

rather, don't dual boot on a winbox with critical info

20:13:15 [davb]

ok :)

20:13:21 [talli]

it ate my laptop when i did that

20:13:24 [davb]

ouch

20:13:34 [talli]

live and learn ;)

20:13:37 [davb]

talli: i might need a place to stay overnight.

20:17:03 [davb]

heh

20:23:00 [denshi]

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20:24:39 [davb]

hi denshi

20:24:59 [denshi]

I'm just here for the mohawks.. where's mark?

20:25:33 [davb]

snuck out early, its friday afternoon

20:28:42 [davb]

2 minutes until freedom from MS products for 2 days!

20:30:19 [davb]

bye

20:30:21 [davb]

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