00:40:00 GEM: what are you working on doing? building a client site or for fun? 00:40:03 Label GEM not found. 00:45:08 talli: any work on openacs is fun! 00:45:17 i bet 00:45:23 especially debugging aolserver, huh? 00:45:34 sure. that was incredibly educational. 00:45:49 i'll never understand you hacker types 00:46:01 my view is coding is fun, debugging is painful. 00:46:34 of course, coding == debugging... so i guess that's why i'm a marketroid 00:47:24 I learned all about occam's razor all over again 00:47:42 dunno what that is, but it sounds painful 00:47:48 must be re: debugging 00:47:51 my tcl config file was misconfigured. an extra # us akk ut tajes 00:47:55 all it takes 00:48:24 talli: hackers like to fix things. 00:49:33 especially if it means avoiding real work :) 00:51:13 also taking things apart... 00:51:19 paje, forget davb 00:51:20 talli: I forgot davb 00:51:31 davb us akk ut tajes 00:51:37 paje, who is davb? 00:51:37 talli: no idea 00:51:46 davb is akk ut tajes 00:51:48 paje, who is davb? 00:51:49 somebody said davb was akk ut tajes 00:53:08 ms (~chatzilla@steigman.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 00:53:11 heh 00:53:45 ms what are you using openacs for? if anything. 00:54:20 well, i've had acs classic going at work for time tracking for a couple of years 00:54:41 ah cool. 00:54:53 i really want to move all of our hosted sites into an oacs 4.5 installation, tho 00:55:17 spffiy. 00:55:25 multiple sites in one openacs? 00:55:30 hence the subsite questions :) 00:55:36 yeah. exactly. 00:56:13 that is a goal of mine also. to offer hosting to my small clients and put them on an openacs so they can use ETP etc... to manage their sites. then also I can template them and update easily etc. 00:56:54 davb: there's that site node map thing 00:57:14 that's what i'm toying with now. 00:57:48 jim: yeah, but there were issues with logins between domains/subsites. 00:58:04 i haven't had a chance to test it out. 00:58:39 i'm testing that stuff out now 00:59:19 cool, thanks! 01:00:50 just saw on the bboard that don has found a subsite bug on both platforms. hasn't committed a fix yet tho. 01:01:04 on the arsdigita site, there is a place where it does like this: 01:01:18 - Register or 01:01:27 - log in 01:01:39 \- (Why?) 01:02:12 is the "why" text available to use by other than aD? 01:02:58 jim. its hard coded in the page I think. 01:03:11 ie, it's already in there isn't it? 01:03:30 maybe not... 01:03:32 meaning on any acs? maybe 01:03:50 I thought so. I think openacs 3.x had one. 01:04:01 I think you're right 01:07:45 I'm 170 lines behind (thanks to dinner) but right now I am doing personal stuff, with an eye to trying to pitch some client sites (I am not a terribly successful consultant) 01:08:30 GEM terrible is exactly how I describe my sucess :) 01:08:34 and my spelling 01:10:02 darn my dotlrn is broken again. 01:10:37 you can learn some interesting stuff doing grep why * -r on the openacs source code 01:11:06 Ahh, I ran through it all 01:11:34 ok, willdo :) 01:11:47 not necessarily useful :) 01:12:03 In the long run, I've got hopes to use OpenACS to make it possible to host 11,000 web sites for one national organization with 2+million members 01:12:04 oh :P still, I have a few mins 01:13:02 Trying to figure out how to make it possible for the members of those groups to manage their own sites, much like you want to do with your clients, davb 01:13:49 GEM : wow! 01:14:51 davb: *grin* Thanks. I'd love to be able to give them a batch of templates for their sites, to pick and choose between, for example 01:15:02 dotLRN has that. 01:15:14 I figure that if I can get a tiny amount per group, I'll be in plenty of good shape 01:15:16 its coming over to OpenACS eventually. right now its Oracle-only :( 01:15:22 I see. 01:15:44 I saw, even. I know Caroline Meeks in person, and have for going on 20 years (eeek!) 01:16:36 jim: :-( old CDR drive is not liking mit lectures... I'll have to get the good one working 01:16:53 davb: ok, np 01:16:59 If I had more time and a working Oracle setup, I'd try to port dotLRN 01:17:21 well, supposedly openforce is doing it. 01:17:40 Hey - did anything ever come of people talking about making DVDs or VCDs of the arsdigita university lectures? 01:18:01 Hmm, perhaps I should ask Ben if he'd like a volunteer, as-available helper on the port 01:18:04 not really. i think it ended up being more expensive than sending an 80 gig drive to aduni.org 01:18:52 Ah well. 01:19:08 GEM, i think they are holding off because Sloan/MIT is setting up some sort of gevernance to take care of the dotlrn project. 01:19:13 I was thinking that especially VCDs would be pretty easy to make once, then clone lots 01:19:43 plus, they only have realvideo of the lectures. they for some reason don't have the source. 01:19:57 Hmm. one of my other possible targets for consulting stuff has 8 illion members in 35,000 groups :-) 01:20:35 thats a pretty big database. 01:21:30 Well, realvideo would argue for not-DVD, since the quality is likely to be lower 01:22:40 right. 01:23:57 GEM: re: DVDs: that was me. I work with video editors at the moment. 01:23:57 Label GEM not found. 01:24:07 oacs-chump: botsnak 01:24:07 Not understood: botsnak 01:24:25 denshi: Cool! 01:24:48 denshi: Would vcds make it more economical? :-) 01:25:00 * GEM could use a refresher course on 6.001 01:25:05 yes, but no one in the states uses VCDs. 01:26:06 GEM: which is 6.001? 01:26:06 Label GEM not found. 01:26:32 6.001 is, if I recall, the intro course that they use SICP in. 01:26:43 denshi: yes, there are people who do. And I'd be perfectly willing to use them in my dvd player :-) 01:27:02 yup, the introductory CS class at my alma mater 01:27:36 well, in either VCD or DVD, it's not worth bothering if the only option is low quality realvideo. If I could get copies of the source tapes, that's another story. 01:27:48 GEM: I have the MIT Sussman lectures of SICP on CD, they are not available at all from aduni.org anymore. 01:27:48 Label GEM not found. 01:27:57 OK, that makes sense, I guess, denshi 01:28:02 They aren't? Aww :-( 01:28:35 I have, somewhere, probably, my pre-publication copy of SICP from when I was a lab TA for .001 01:29:03 the book, nicely, is available free, but I like my printed copy better. 01:29:48 yes. 01:30:28 i set you up. 01:30:32 Thanks 01:30:42 something is broken still in the portlets, so I might need to reinstall :( 01:31:59 Oooh! I found a bug in the code 01:32:42 I CVS updated. 01:32:46 tried to go to "My Files" from the control panel, after switching to the deco theme 01:32:49 I might have to go back to a previous tarball. 01:33:02 Do you want the message that I generated? 01:33:08 or shall I not worry about it? 01:33:08 I got the same one :) 01:33:16 OK, that's cool. 01:34:04 oracle just says "invalid column name 01:34:11 no mention of which column is missing 01:34:22 wait, yes it does 01:34:40 apm_package.parent_id, I think thats bad. 01:35:10 anyone know how to get a table description in oracle off-hand? 01:35:32 oracle error messages suck. they're like the industry standard of sucky error messages, surpassed only by those overachievers at Apple, with messages such as (direct quote) "an error has occured." 01:35:47 describe table_name 01:36:21 oh, that was easy! thanks! 01:36:38 PACKAGE_ID NOT NULL NUMBER(38) 01:36:40 hmmm 01:36:47 oh nm 01:36:55 thats package_id, not parent_id. 01:37:02 they must be screwing with the core code. 01:37:13 remember to select from user_tables for more info, joining to user_columns, user_contraints, etc, if necessary. 01:37:14 davb: do you have a portals site up? 01:37:27 talli: kinda, its broken. 01:37:50 actually apm_pacakges.parent_id is i think supposed to be a pl/sql function name. 01:37:56 re: subsites - isn't subsites kind of a cheap virtual hosting? 01:38:09 is it a bit of a hack? 01:38:11 talli: it would like to be. 01:38:14 not really. 01:38:30 and when VR is in AOLserver4, could subsites be obsolete? 01:38:42 VR? 01:38:47 sorry VH 01:38:48 paje, VR? 01:38:48 bugger all, i dunno, denshi 01:39:05 talli: no. subsites allow you to have users in only one subsite. i can make a user the admin of a subsite, so they can control their site, but not mess with any otehrs. 01:39:08 paje, botsnack 01:39:08 :) 01:39:37 davb: i see 01:39:56 but one should be able to do that in VH as well 01:40:15 what you mean is that you can make a user an admin of a node of a larger site with subsites, right? 01:40:38 meaning, a subsection of an IP 01:40:43 talli: ? 01:41:00 each subsite can be served from a differetn domain name. 01:41:15 if i have x.davb.com, y.davb.com and z.davb.com, i would be using VH 01:41:15 they are seperate, but use the same database and tcl files. 01:41:25 ah, ok 01:41:38 why is that preferable to VH, though? what would the difference be? 01:42:04 I am not sure how the virtual hosting will work? 01:42:22 right now with nsvhr, i have 3 aolservers running for 2 sites. 2 databases, etc... 01:42:36 with domain-based subsites, I only need one of each. 01:43:08 3 aolservers for 2sites with a db each? 01:43:42 well for each site. 01:43:44 the way i might understand vh is that you need one aolserver to manage 2 sites with a db easch 01:43:53 sure, that would work. 01:44:09 but for the crappy sites I am planning on hosting, much fewer resources with only one database. 01:44:25 so with subsites, you have one db, but two sites, right? 01:44:53 imagine GEM's scenario, 1000's of similar sites, but each run by a different entity. 01:44:59 talli: or more. 01:45:05 right 01:45:07 davb: *grin* I was about to mention that 01:45:30 if they each have alot of custom code, no advantage of running them in the same openacs. 01:46:08 so one would need vh 01:46:13 but if you start from the beginning designing it to share code because they are all very similar at a basic level, it's very helpful to have one database :-) 01:46:29 i agree 01:46:46 so with each aolserver instance, you need a separate db? 01:47:07 talli: you could probably hack it to use one database, that would be interesting. 01:47:32 or is the idea that because aolserver is multithreaded, it makes more sense to use one aolserver with each subsite having its own thread? 01:47:38 GEM, i want to work out a system to export the data to split of an especially active site to it's own database. ( well, fantasy anyway) 01:47:55 talli: no clue :) 01:48:03 davb: an *excellent* idea for my system! 01:48:13 Thanks! 01:48:51 I would like to build it in to openacs. so you can replicate a subsite entirely. of course a single site is still a subsite, so it would work for any site to be able to export the entire install and reload it. 01:49:12 ooom 01:49:28 davb: sweet! 01:49:34 * davb wonders if the dorlrn changes to acs-core are checked in... 01:50:52 OK, time for me to go sleep - night all 01:51:23 good night 01:53:24 ack, I just updated ALL of my development checkouts.... 01:53:25 oops 01:54:07 cvs should not overwrite your modified files though 01:54:59 np. my important stuff is in my private repository. 01:55:42 didn't help anyway :) 01:57:01 I'll have to check back tomorrow. openacs4.5 is not up to date with the code dotlrn is using. 01:58:34 maybe not: create function apm_package__parent_id 01:59:22 nm, it seems to be in there. 01:59:27 * davb cleans glasses 02:00:44 at least I am not totally blind, just using the wrong version of code for openacs-4.5 02:03:30 thanks to jim and his tblspace-create script! 02:05:45 reinstall is for another day 02:06:11 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 02:26:24 dwalker (~grax@ip68-13-3-74.om.om.cox.net) has joined #openacs 02:27:16 hey, talli, has chrismj show his face around here recently? 02:27:44 oacs-loggy: chrismj? 02:33:01 paje: seen chrismj? 02:33:02 chrismj was last seen on #openacs 26 days, 20 hours, 48 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: so that's why I'm getting a few people together to build this (UI, graphics, db, programming) [Tue Mar 12 22:45:36 2002] 02:34:44 dwalker has left #openacs 02:38:49 chrismj was here under another name, i believe 02:38:54 paje, seen chris? 02:38:54 I haven't seen 'chris', talli 02:41:58 loggy sez he was here under 'norelent' 02:42:05 paje: seen norelent? 02:42:05 norelent was last seen on #openacs 12 days, 20 hours, 55 minutes and 14 seconds ago, saying: :) [Tue Mar 26 22:47:31 2002] 02:56:20 adler (~adler@pool-138-89-147-237.mad.east.verizon.net) has joined #openacs 02:58:14 Anyone knows of a good scanner to do OCR (w/ software included)? 02:59:43 you mean on windows? ;) 03:00:26 Yep 03:00:35 whoa. no i don't 03:01:11 rbm: offshore sweatshops 03:01:23 adler: touche 03:01:39 adler: what's goin' on? long time no IRC 03:01:41 * adler nods 03:02:00 john klos finally got some mobile communication device 03:02:04 i'm busy with a non-oacs gig 03:02:23 i got an email from his pager. i think he originated it 03:02:51 heh.. It's getting warm, so it's park weather, I'm thinking 03:03:36 haha 03:03:46 thanks for the tip on him, btw 03:03:52 ever since the wireless thing has been taking off, it's been too cold to use it, imho 03:03:54 he's been helpful with some sysadmin tasks 03:04:01 yeah 03:04:19 but it's not that powerful in thompkins. 03:04:30 John's a good friend. He's taught me a lot about Unix 03:04:37 i have a friend that lives right on the park at 7th btwn a and b and she can't get it in her apartment 03:05:35 I think the transmitter is in Accidental CDs. If there's a challenge, I imagine he could upgrade it. 03:05:43 With some cash, too. 03:06:03 yeah, we could all upgrade with some cash 03:06:07 anyone know a system-wide param to make adp evaluation more tolerant of errors? 03:06:35 I gave up my place in Brooklyn because I"m living/working in NJ... but I do have to bring my laptop one of these spring days. 03:06:51 so that, for example, the relevant block of html renders as 'error' rather than aborting the entire page 03:09:02 denshi: wrap the acs adp parser with a custom parser that does error handling? 03:09:06 adler: where are you working? 03:09:24 that's one idea.. 03:10:53 talli - small software shop - liquor retail systems. Postgresql, Java, Cygwin... How's Musea? 03:11:02 oh man 03:11:09 that great? 03:11:16 postgres, java and cygwin? 03:11:27 I still have some hair left. 03:11:28 we're all right 03:11:32 reasonably steady 03:11:38 is that combo stable? 03:11:52 the postgres part sounds right, but why cygwin? 03:12:22 Cygwin is the best (only?) way to run postgres on Windows. 03:12:31 only 03:12:33 ugh. why windows, i guess? 03:13:02 but running on postgres on windows is liking building your castle on quicksand imo 03:13:08 we're selling retail point of sales systems. clientele = "salt of the earth" 03:13:15 haha 03:13:19 yowch 03:13:26 adler: you have the db running on the POS client??? 03:13:38 hazmat (postmaster -F) 03:13:53 woof. 03:14:03 if it's a single unit store, yeah, client and server on same machine 03:14:21 was mysql ruled out? 03:14:27 becuase it's gpl? 03:14:32 or becuase of transactions? 03:14:37 (at least it runs on windows) 03:14:43 That decision was made a year ago... I think the developer just like the Features of pg 03:14:54 so do we :) 03:15:07 * hazmat scored a job today :-) 03:15:30 kickass!! 03:15:30 congrats!!! 03:15:31 where? 03:15:32 what is it? 03:15:36 hazmat: made the downpayment on the BMW, yet? 03:16:16 local in la 03:16:22 doing zope/python work 03:16:37 websites or apps? 03:16:38 adler: how bout paying my taxes :-) 03:16:54 apps and distributed systems 03:17:01 hazmat: I did that with my credit card last year 03:17:07 * hazmat is tired of websites 03:17:28 adler: thats doesn't sound like a bad idea ;) 03:17:40 * hazmat contemplates his credit card interest rate 03:17:41 I'm tired of websites, too. I just want to code the sites I wanted to build in 1999, then quit. 03:17:48 hazmat: cool. websites really are uninteresting 03:17:48 talli: tell Patrick that I'm helping wfmu archive to mp3 instead of realplayer 03:18:00 killer! 03:18:08 how? 03:18:18 drive time.. bye guys 03:18:19 pat prays to wfmu 03:18:25 hahaha 03:18:25 bye denshi 03:18:25 later denshi 03:18:28 by denshi 03:18:36 denshi has left #openacs 03:19:06 what are you using? PG and linux? 03:19:06 I just started emailing Ken Freedman... realized that they didn't have the systems expertise, and wouldn't be able to tell that I didn't either 03:19:17 haha 03:19:35 Linux, esound, lame 03:19:59 lame? 03:20:07 is that a euphemism for lamp? 03:20:15 Lame Is Not an Mpeg Encoder 03:20:22 ah 03:20:23 s/I/i/ 03:20:30 are you going to DB the archives? 03:20:42 ah, the recursive names 03:21:05 They already have a DB system for the realplayer archives, so I'll try to integrate with that. 03:21:08 and where does wfmu collo? 03:21:16 cool 03:21:18 oven.com I think 03:21:27 don't know them 03:21:51 do you have bandwidth to give away? 03:21:57 :) 03:22:11 btw, is there a unix window manager that can work on 32 mbs of ram? 03:22:29 tom's window manager would be the best bet... 03:22:32 twm 03:22:42 i have a pII 200 with 32 mbs i would like to make a workstation 03:22:47 twm, thanks 03:23:20 talli: do you know how much 64 megs of ram costs? It's not worth your time to wait for swapping. 03:24:36 good point 03:24:49 i forgot i could upgrade 03:24:54 I wonder if there is a debian user who knows how to get out of a " unable to execute post-installation script" apt error 03:25:19 that spork guy told me about "www.newegg.com" they are so fucking cheap 03:25:46 * talli curses that fry's isn't open past 9 03:26:47 talli - will you ask Pat if he can sponsor a mirror of wfmu's high-bandwidth archives? 03:27:03 sponsor how? with money? 03:27:25 we might be able to sponsor with bandwidth 03:27:35 that would be really attractive 03:28:17 we've got a shitload of unused bandwidth, so maybe we could help out 03:28:25 yes! 03:28:38 talli: imagine the prestige. priceless 03:29:02 yeah 03:29:24 all the dirty, leftie, alternative hippies who listen to noncommercial radio 03:29:29 they'll love us 03:29:58 Ken only wants to start with 32kbps only, but I'm building it to generating many tiers of service 03:30:17 The bandwidth costs are what is holding him back 03:30:33 talli: are you pretending to not be a dirty hippy? 03:31:26 we need to make you a button "first class wfmu benefactor" that you can wear to the Tonic... I want one too. 03:31:35 haha. that would be good 03:31:57 if it got me dates with all the cute little indy rocker girls, that might be ok 03:32:06 but then i would have to dis them for being so friggin lame 03:32:16 oohh! 03:32:20 but seriously 03:32:43 but if i could get dave tronzo to give me a thumbs up, it would be worth it 03:32:49 what is the currency of presitige other than lame hipster chicks? 03:33:08 man, if that's all... well, i guess it's enough 03:33:17 sign me up 03:33:21 i'm pretty down on hipster chicks, though 03:33:32 who is Dave Tronzo? clue me in. 03:33:43 they're usually too stuck in the ironic trend of the moment to be worth it 03:33:54 talli: does it have to be so Us versus Them? 03:33:55 tronzo is god 03:34:08 I've heard *that* guy 03:34:13 well, they also seem to have an aversion to getting naked with me 03:34:17 so, no it doesn't 03:34:19 but i blame them 03:35:01 tronzo is a guitarist that doesn't like the music biz so he makes money by being a carpenter 03:35:09 he's a bit crazy, but he's an amazing musician 03:35:14 do you know michael blake? 03:35:19 nope 03:35:27 saxophonist 03:35:36 do women with expensive glasses sleep with him, too? 03:35:39 you know kenny wolleson and tony scherr, right? 03:35:45 oh my god 03:36:03 yeah... we talked about them last time... Sex Mob 03:36:03 women with expensive glasses are *exactly* what hipsters are. 03:36:06 you're a genius 03:36:09 yeah, sexmob 03:36:23 tronzo and blake play with kenny and tony in a band called Slow Poke 03:36:26 which is great too 03:36:33 I had a crush on Kenny's gf... for a weekend. 03:36:49 kenny's gf? the little one? 03:37:06 i think i heard they broke up. my bro is good friends with kenny, i think he mentioend something about that 03:37:11 this was a year plus ago.. perhaps 'gf' overstates it.. 03:37:24 hey! I never touched her! I swear! 03:37:27 i think her nickname was "kenny's little iranian boy" 03:37:37 she had no hair 03:37:44 a cook 03:38:18 she is not attractive to bearded boys 6 years her junior 03:38:35 s/attractive/attracted/ 03:38:57 oh, different girl then 03:39:01 Maybe I'm thinking of a different sexmob 03:39:20 there is no other sexmob 03:39:55 Every man is his own Sexmob 03:40:48 You know, apache is the last package on Debian that I thought would be broken.. 03:44:55 hipster chicks?? 03:45:19 hipster chicks are the bane of my existence 03:45:59 * hazmat likes the sane new-age over the hippies. 03:46:02 the fuel of the Great Sexual Frustration of NYC 03:46:09 ah 03:46:25 * hazmat had a thing for hippy chicks for a while. 03:47:05 big difference between the hippies and the hipsters 03:47:10 which is? 03:47:40 where to begin 03:47:49 the beginning :-) 03:48:24 I'm calling on talli's wisdom for this one 03:48:48 hipsters are not made of pachoili oil 03:48:54 ok 03:49:09 hippies are too earnest 03:49:16