00:00:34 hazmat: nothing 00:01:00 i went to her play with her friend, but afterwards she had a bunch of friends already there and i was too sick to schmooze 00:01:59 bummer. 00:03:12 whats been going on with momentum? i haven't heard anything as of recent. 00:03:24 I'm also looking for work. Anyone know people hiring DBAs or DB programmers or system admins in the Charlottesville, VA area? 00:03:46 http://www.satirewire.com/news/0007/satire-cellsafety.shtml 00:03:46 A: http://www.satirewire.com/news/0007/satire-cellsafety.shtml from GEM 00:04:01 A:Fun cellphone safety proposal 00:04:01 added comment A1 00:05:51 hazmat: haven't had time re: momentum 00:06:12 ic 00:06:15 i'm goign to try and put something together to try and flesh out the networking approach we'll take and the RDF ideas 00:08:12 cool, i'm in no rush, cause i'm too busy to do anything with it, but hopefully the rest of those interested can keep focused (thanks to our ring leader ;-) ) 00:11:10 ugh 00:11:18 gary and i have been chatting alot 00:11:22 so we're still pushing it 00:19:36 What's "momentum" in this context? 00:24:49 Momentum is the name of a new free software project we're trying to start 00:25:05 it will be a free calendar server, similar in architecture to AOLserver 00:25:35 the server will be built to manipulate iCal data with a scripting interface to build applications with like schedulers and such 00:25:47 that's the idea at least 00:26:05 so if you want to squeeze the last bit of your free time away, join up! 00:26:24 interesting. I'd of course, like to see something that can sync things into my palmos handheld 00:26:44 I'll think about it, when I have free time. At the moment, it should all be going towards getting a job 00:28:30 yes, those job things 00:28:36 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.159.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 00:28:49 it's going to be like sendmail is to email 00:28:56 or markd2 is to tan beefcakes 00:29:08 we're not worrying about the client, just the server 00:30:03 * markd2 has pasty beefcakes 00:30:54 anyone that wants to make it available to their client (evolution, openoffice groupware, emacs, oacs, etc.) can plug in to Momentum either through accepting ical data or using the scriptable interface for specifc apps 00:58:17 can someone send me a test email please? dave@thedesignexperience.org. 00:59:35 sent 01:00:56 thanks 01:01:26 cool. it works. my email seems very light since i restored the server, but it seems to be working. 01:05:20 Ahh, making progress - I see the "Welcome" screen now :-) 01:05:31 woot! 01:11:29 got all these "CREATE" lines in a still-growing netscape window :-) 01:12:29 Hmm. I wonder if it would be possible to have it give some more useful information about what it is creating 01:33:55 Cool! installing packages.... 01:37:25 Hmm. would be nice if the previous page had even little prompts to tell you what the various "CREATE", "COMENT", "DROP" and suchlike stateents were related to, like this page does 01:40:24 Creating administrator - getting close! 02:09:07 denshi (toddg@linux128.ma.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs 02:09:12 yo 02:09:16 hi 02:09:20 hey denshi 02:10:21 I spent all day on 3 things: cheap women, expensive whiskey, and apache 2 source code. 02:10:33 which is the most elegant? 02:10:46 after the whiskey, who cares? 02:10:54 none, really, they're all pretty grimey. but mark is right. 02:11:11 how is that hot chick you're living with? 02:11:30 still hot. kind of a goofball, thought, in my opinion. 02:11:39 goofballs are good 02:11:43 she's a slacker. 02:11:48 so am i! 02:11:51 woot! 02:11:54 me too! 02:11:58 this si getting better and better. 02:12:04 markd2 has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Toolkit, 4.5=Tcl and proud of it! | Welcome to goofball slackerville 02:12:55 paje talli and action | "Cut your hair, you slacker!" 02:12:56 denshi: excuse me? 02:13:05 denshi: if you only knew... 02:13:16 * markd2 paje's talli 02:13:20 i cut my dreads off about the same time musea started 02:13:31 how does the paje-feeding syntax go again? 02:13:41 paje: botsnack 02:13:41 :) 02:13:42 ? 02:14:03 paje: again! 02:14:03 * paje spanks talli 02:14:37 paje, you always make me feel like a... uhm, a... bot whore 02:14:37 talli: excuse me? 02:14:59 you know what i mean 02:17:04 I should just feed the combined lyrics of all the Nine Inch Nails into paje and set him loose. 02:17:27 "Smashed up like pickled cheese, smashed up like Ben Vereen, 02:17:27 Smashed up like Mogadishu, smashed up my limousine" 02:17:27 -- Nine Inch Nails 02:18:18 let the bot corruption begin! 02:18:46 I should call my friend David. He once spent 5 hours trying to convince a markov chain it was gay. 02:19:07 heh 02:19:09 paje: paje? 02:19:09 i guess i am the medicine man and oracle in Amazonian tribes. I'm also a recipient of church of mike's "full deal" package or a pirate 02:19:17 yow! 02:19:17 It's OBVIOUS ... The FURS never reached ISTANBUL ... You were an EXTRA in the REMAKE of "TOPKAPI" ... Go home to your WIFE ... She's making FRENCH TOAST! 02:19:31 who runs paje? 02:19:34 mmmm.. french toast 02:19:48 rbm? 02:19:49 rbm is Roberto, http://www.brasileiro.net/ 02:19:55 paje, your master? 02:19:55 paje's master is roberto. 02:20:14 paje, your daddy? 02:20:14 denshi: i don't know 02:20:17 paje, your master? 02:20:17 I worship rbm 02:20:19 paje, your master? 02:20:20 paje's master is roberto. 02:20:21 paje, your master? 02:20:21 i heard my master was roberto. 02:20:22 yow! 02:20:22 Please come home with me ... I have Tylenol!! 02:20:26 OK. I know one thing that used to crash another infobot I know 02:20:48 I have a friend who programmed that one to play rock-paper-scissors 02:21:02 over on #wplug monkeybot plays a number guessing game 02:21:04 and I think that someone else fed that one all of "WHo's on first?" 02:21:13 or all your base :-) 02:21:23 [10:21] what you say! 02:21:23 [10:21] take off all 'ZIG' for great justice! 02:22:20 OK, installing a pile of packages, including etp :-) 02:23:16 it's still going...but it's bedtime for me - night, all! 02:23:52 nite 02:24:20 so no go on the apache ragging tonight? 02:24:33 if you'd like to rag, feel free. I'll giggle along 02:24:41 I haven't looked at it at all to comment even unintelligently 02:24:56 just notify me when you hit REM mode. 02:26:02 like I've said before, apache2 is, in my perverted mind, a big win b/c it has operational semantics conformant to nsd; plus you get all that apache modules for free. 02:26:11 for instance, webdav comes with. 02:26:30 cool 02:26:47 think the module owners have what it takes to make the modules threadsafe well? 02:27:07 after some kludging, I think I can make it run in a manner similar to nsd. 02:27:15 as for the module owners.... 02:28:04 one of the new things is that the, shall we say, "concurrency module" is abstracted away. 02:29:18 so you can pick and choose one of, I think, 6 modules for the runtime: apache1.3 classic, threaded 1 (worker), threaded 2 (perchild), wintNT, netware, etc. 02:30:10 sure, like half the module owners might not be able to hack threads, but who can make modules that work on all the above? 02:30:13 I'm confused. 02:31:42 here's a wierd design: 'worker' forks processes with a static number of threads... if you need more threads, it forks a new process. 02:31:47 ?? the hell? 02:32:02 weird. 02:32:16 my /playpen filesystem runneth over with wheel reinvention. 02:32:33 heh 02:32:37 can't they just copy aolserver? 02:32:45 its what 7 years old? 02:32:57 that's what I'm asking in another window. 02:33:02 ah. 02:33:50 anyone: how often, writing oacs code, do you use ns_thread to grab or create a new thread? 02:33:54 it I understand correctly, (not likely) one reason for threads is to share data... so if you have two processes with n threads, you have you data split between to processes, so why not just use all processes? 02:33:59 me, never. 02:34:02 not often 02:35:04 ie. aolserver shares the database pools between all the threads...? 02:35:12 yeah 02:35:27 memoized stuff, the lookup table for url dispatch, etc 02:35:53 yeah, so openacs in particular uses it alot. 02:36:06 davb: percieved stability. apache has stability b/c of processes. I, for one, have never in my life seen apache crash. 02:36:15 ok. 02:36:18 thats cool. 02:36:31 I have only seen aolserver crash when my stack was way too small.... 02:36:31 single-process coding is *much* simpler than threaded 02:36:35 yes. 02:36:51 davb: so they're probably hesitant to abandon it completely. 02:36:55 ah. 02:37:13 well, of course. that makes sense. depends on what you are doing with it though, right? 02:37:25 services 1000 static sites from one machine, no problem. 02:37:47 serving one big database-backed monster... maybe not? 02:38:07 this is migrating: we all know why threaded is cool. 02:38:18 ah, sorry 02:38:21 ok. 02:38:21 and they have it.. in a different way 02:38:59 my question was 'who explicitly creates another thread within a tcl script', apparently no one here does as a matter of course. 02:39:30 reason for asking, is that with the process/thread acstraction layer, I'm not sure if you can ask for a new thread in a script. 02:39:41 ah. 02:39:55 still looking; but if no one really uses ns_thread, then maybe oacs4 on apache4 is a real possibility. 02:40:15 errr... apache2. that was a modem typing error, not a fruedian slip. 02:41:14 paje, is talli ill? 02:41:26 * denshi reads the logs 02:44:05 the only real reason to use ns_thread in a script it to start a detached thread...that is the only call I can find in openacs4.5 for chat, which I think everyone hates anyway. 02:46:00 thanks davb 02:46:12 paje, botsnak 02:46:12 * paje eats paje's botsnak, and part of paje's arm too. Sorry. 02:46:24 davb, codersnack 02:47:40 yum! 02:50:36 well, there are other things to complain about, but I'll get back to work now 02:50:59 hazmat, GEM, good luck w/ job hunts. 02:51:16 * davb also notes that the optimum number of threads for AOLserver, at least on photo.net was around 10... 02:53:52 l8r 02:53:57 denshi has quit ("denshi has no reason") 02:53:58 bye 02:56:40 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:26:40 talli has quit (Remote closed the connection) 03:38:59 IRCMonkey has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:0.9.9/20020326]") 03:45:26 markd2 has quit ("wheeeee") 04:07:28 talli (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs 04:19:37 ooom 04:20:35 hey rbm 04:20:41 did you get any info from travelocity? 04:34:49 talli: I sent you a /msg earlier 04:35:17 talli: I got an e-mail with a travel id, but when I login it doesn't let me see the travel info. It says I need to cal some 1-800 number. 04:37:06 hmmm... ok 04:37:11 can you forward that to me? 04:37:19 i didn't see your /msg before, sorry bout that 04:38:38 talli: Want me to forward the e-mail? 04:38:43 please 04:50:00 talli: done. 04:50:51 talli: Excellent! 05:36:02 madvenu (madvenu@82.cambridge-02rh15rt.ma.dial-access.att.net) has joined #openacs 05:36:25 hi 05:36:25 hey, madvenu 05:36:36 any one know of the ACS 3.x source ? 05:36:43 where can I download it ? 05:37:03 i can't find a copy on arsdigita.com... 05:37:07 hi paje 05:38:19 is the openacs 3.x code == acs 3.x ? 05:38:50 i have setup acs 4.2 tcl on a test box... and wanted to setup the adserver modules.. 05:39:00 but looks like its not been ported yet.. :( 05:39:24 hello ? 05:39:26 anobody ? 05:39:45 i am being offtopic here ? :) 05:39:49 openacs.org 05:39:57 oh, wait 05:40:05 ok 05:40:07 you want acs3.4, with oracle? 05:40:12 yes 05:40:23 hmm... lemme think where that is... 05:40:27 basically lookiing for a 'stable' ACS 05:40:33 i think it's at sussdorfroy.com 05:40:39 oacs4.5 is stable!!! 05:40:55 what are you looking to do? 05:41:00 sure !!, but does it work with oracle too ? 05:41:15 oh, my son, you're new around here, huh? 05:41:21 yes, it works with oracle and pg 05:41:32 oacs4.5 is acs4.2++ 05:41:42 lots of bug fixes and enhancements 05:41:44 cool.. well, i am new .. yes, not tried openacs 4.x... 05:41:55 and extended to work with both oracle and pg 05:41:57 had setup openacs 3.x a looong while ago :) 05:41:58 welcome! 05:41:59 ok 05:42:03 cool 05:42:25 we've been improving and fixing acs4.2 for abut a year now 05:42:47 ok, i will go look at openacs 4.5 and come back here...wait.. let me see if its got the modules i am looking for.. :D 05:42:48 it's still beta just because don baccus has high standards for released software 05:42:56 what are you looking for? 05:43:16 well, CMS, e-commerce, ad server, 05:43:33 those are there. at least as much as they were for 3.4 05:43:33 want to suggest acs for a govt. customer.. 05:43:38 ah... cool 05:43:59 hello, talli, i saw on the oacs site that there is a meet on the 23rd.. 05:44:02 ecommerce is the bugger 05:44:06 yeah, there is 05:44:13 are you in boston? 05:44:14 but i am going away tomorrow night from boston.. :( 05:44:18 bummer 05:44:43 you won't be back for 2 weeks? 05:44:53 i live in india.. 05:45:07 am here to give a tech presentation to the govt. body.. 05:45:21 so you see, i am probably not the best person to do this... 05:45:25 ah, bummer 05:45:37 a tech presentation to which gov body? 05:45:37 but then the best people would rather be coding :) 05:45:39 US or india? 05:45:45 US 05:45:52 ah, cool 05:45:56 i am sorry, not able to give names as of now.. 05:46:00 understood 05:46:06 which company are you from? 05:46:17 but then, if we get this contract.. 05:46:38 would be looking out for support / programmers for the project.. 05:47:02 well, my company, musea technologies, is an OACS shop 05:47:08 tried to talk to redhat for a 30k $ 3 month contract.. 05:47:13 but didn't work out.. 05:47:27 yes, i was reading about musea.. 05:47:36 30K per month or 30K over 3 months? 05:47:55 either way, i think that is a bit too low for redhat 05:48:01 well, 30k over 3 months for 1 person.. + additional support reveues yearly 05:48:03 they are (needlessly) expensive 05:48:08 ah, cool 05:48:14 yes 05:48:18 thats what they said... 05:48:27 well, those are numbers that are roughly in our neighborhood, depending on the work 05:48:31 they want to take the whole pie... :) 05:48:38 ok 05:48:39 yes, that's what those guys do 05:49:03 talli, i am meeting with chris@aduni.org tomorrow 05:49:08 redhat's sites are much higher, and honestly, they aren't so great a shop for dev. at least, arsdigita wasn't 05:49:09 here at boston.. 05:49:13 cool 05:49:23 can i meet up with you too ? 05:49:27 if you want, i can put you in touch with my engineer, luke pond, who lives in cambrdige 05:49:33 ok 05:49:39 well, i'm in California right now, usually in NYC 05:49:46 oh, ok 05:49:56 btw, you are looking for Tcl, not Java, right? 05:50:05 YUP :) 05:50:07 TCL 05:50:10 excellent 05:50:34 whats Luke's contacts ? 05:50:35 talli: where in calli are you? 05:50:50 hazmat: i'm in the SF bay area right now 05:51:12 cool, if you make down to socal, let me know. 05:51:42 i would, but i'm headed back to NYC tomorrow 05:52:29 next time then. are you coming to the oreilly open source convention? 05:52:47 i don't know. that's a good question 05:52:51 when is it? and where? 05:53:17 july san deigo, ca http://conferences.oreilly.com 05:55:17 hazmat has quit (Remote closed the connection) 06:35:59 paje: seen talli? 06:35:59 talli was last seen on #openacs 43 minutes and 8 seconds ago, saying: when is it? and where? [Sun Apr 7 23:53:31 2002] 06:54:29 madvenu has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:58:49 hey rbm 06:58:58 still there? 06:58:59 there are none. 06:59:04 paje, seen rbm? 06:59:04 rbm was last seen on #openacs 23 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: paje: seen talli? [Mon Apr 8 00:36:39 2002] 07:10:07 paje, seen shagster? 07:10:08 shagster was last seen on #openacs 2 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 48 seconds ago, saying: runs out of office while phone is not ringning [Fri Apr 5 14:26:59 2002] 07:27:55 * talli heads to bed 08:18:37 pthurmond (~pthurmond@12.161.68.55) has joined #openacs 09:45:57 pthurmond has quit (Remote closed the connection) 12:06:19 til (til@port-212-202-128-197.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 12:36:32 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 12:36:50 Hey Dave! I'm looking at some lovely apm screens :-) 12:38:16 great. 12:39:12 argh. 12:39:20 [Global Notice] Hi all. In a moment we'll need to restart both European and Australian hubbing as well as a few servers in the US and in Europe as a bit of finishing up from the weekend's conversion activity. Please bear with us. 12:39:20 what? 12:39:43 I updated DNS for my web server back on thursday night. my ISP still hasn't updated thier servers. 12:40:48 [Global Notice] Further info will be provided on WALLOPS (/umode +w, /mode +w) as it progresses and then a final global notice. 12:50:22 til has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:53:14 til (til@port-212-202-128-197.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 13:03:19 [Global Notice] Hi all. We should be finished with the last-minute tweaking. Have a great afternoon! 13:16:13 davb: yes, that counts as an "argh" 13:49:18 ooom 13:51:10 aaab 13:52:34 Psychephylax (~nickb@pool197.eng.cv.net) has joined #openacs 13:52:38 Morning 13:53:13 morning 13:54:04 til has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 13:54:26 �oom 13:55:24 morning Psychephylax 13:56:08 til (til@port-212-202-128-197.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 14:02:03 hi Psychephylax 14:13:12 Ugh, I hate having the flu 14:14:26 Hey neighborinos :) 14:14:34 I got my green star today 14:15:33 Green Star ? 14:26:05 on dslreports.com 14:37:49 Ahhh! 15:11:21 markd2 (~markd2@r-41.16.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 15:45:46 starets (~starets@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openacs 15:47:20 Hey Pete 15:47:22 what's up? 15:47:52 hey mark. How was the ranch? 15:48:34 What's so scary about cartoon characters vomiting candy from their necks? Seems perfectly normal to me. 15:48:51 heh 15:48:55 the ranch was awesome 15:49:12 Planning some cocoa goodness in your retirement? 15:49:23 now i'm unsure of my career thoughts given how much fun I had working with the stuff 15:53:11 ah, wish I had the funds for reirement =:-O 15:58:36 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 16:00:12 starets has quit ("User disconnected") 16:04:59 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.16.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 16:11:51 btw, i got my dotlrn test site up. if anyone want to see how it looks let me know. 16:12:09 is it everythign we've been dreaming of? 16:12:31 heh 16:12:35 no, you already saw it. 16:12:47 I just reinstalled it after I had to temporarily remove oracle... 16:13:41 I still want to get ETP working as a dotlrn applet. that would be really cool. 16:34:00 markd2 has quit ("wheeeee") 16:54:08 ms (ms@beacon-229.donahue.umassp.edu) has joined #openacs 16:54:29 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.16.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 17:27:25 Hmm. sounds like a fun thing to check sometime, davb...where is it? 17:28:18 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs 17:58:02 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 17:58:40 andy_ (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 17:59:06 hey hazmat, denshi 17:59:29 hey 18:00:43 ms has quit (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 18:01:17 anyone know where in aolserver I would set this link /usr/lib/plpgsql.so 18:01:51 it is pointing to the wrong place, it needs to point to /usr/lib/pgsql/plpg.sql.so 18:03:13 2 options: 18:03:35 1) set a symlink 18:03:53 that is what i did and it worked but I'd rather set it in a config file 18:04:03 2) set the environment variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/pgsql/ 18:04:18 that adds that directory to the library search path. 18:04:31 cool thanks 18:05:18 in practice, you'll want 'export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/lib/pgsql/' under bash, and 'setenv LD_L....blahblahbla' under tcsh. 18:05:33 is there a file i can add that to? 18:05:40 i'm using bash 18:05:56 seems like it should be system wide as well 18:10:43 umm.. I'm not on my linux box right now, I think it's in /etc/libconf or something. 18:10:52 gimme a second to hook up and boot. 18:11:01 andy_: hang on... 18:11:15 or listen to davb. he knows all. 18:11:37 ns_section ns/db/driver/postgres 18:11:38 ns_param pgbin /usr/local/pgsql/bin 18:11:47 i know because I recently screwed it up :) 18:12:23 davb: this is in nsd.tcl correct? 18:12:28 andy yes. 18:14:06 stupid DNS. 18:14:13 4 days is toooooo loooong 18:14:54 oops, it worked! 18:14:55 yeah! 18:15:30 woah. I never knew that, davb. 18:15:57 michaels (ms@beacon-229.donahue.umassp.edu) has joined #openacs 18:16:00 if your postgresql lives in a non-standard place, you learn :) 18:16:27 hi michaels 18:16:35 hey 18:16:35 ms, is NickServ giving you trouble? 18:16:47 can anyone get to www.thedesignexperience.org ? 18:17:00