IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:34 [talli]
hazmat: nothing
00:01:00 [talli]
i went to her play with her friend, but afterwards she had a bunch of friends already there and i was too sick to schmooze
00:01:59 [hazmat]
bummer.
00:03:12 [hazmat]
whats been going on with momentum? i haven't heard anything as of recent.
00:03:24 [GEM]
I'm also looking for work. Anyone know people hiring DBAs or DB programmers or system admins in the Charlottesville, VA area?
00:03:46 [GEM]
http://www.satirewire.com/news/0007/satire-cellsafety.shtml
00:03:46 [oacs-chump]
A: http://www.satirewire.com/news/0007/satire-cellsafety.shtml from GEM
00:04:01 [GEM]
A:Fun cellphone safety proposal
00:04:01 [oacs-chump]
added comment A1
00:05:51 [talli]
hazmat: haven't had time re: momentum
00:06:12 [hazmat]
ic
00:06:15 [talli]
i'm goign to try and put something together to try and flesh out the networking approach we'll take and the RDF ideas
00:08:12 [hazmat]
cool, i'm in no rush, cause i'm too busy to do anything with it, but hopefully the rest of those interested can keep focused (thanks to our ring leader ;-) )
00:11:10 [talli]
ugh
00:11:18 [talli]
gary and i have been chatting alot
00:11:22 [talli]
so we're still pushing it
00:19:36 [GEM]
What's "momentum" in this context?
00:24:49 [talli]
Momentum is the name of a new free software project we're trying to start
00:25:05 [talli]
it will be a free calendar server, similar in architecture to AOLserver
00:25:35 [talli]
the server will be built to manipulate iCal data with a scripting interface to build applications with like schedulers and such
00:25:47 [talli]
that's the idea at least
00:26:05 [talli]
so if you want to squeeze the last bit of your free time away, join up!
00:26:24 [GEM]
interesting. I'd of course, like to see something that can sync things into my palmos handheld
00:26:44 [GEM]
I'll think about it, when I have free time. At the moment, it should all be going towards getting a job
00:28:30 [talli]
yes, those job things
00:28:36 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.159.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
00:28:49 [talli]
it's going to be like sendmail is to email
00:28:56 [talli]
or markd2 is to tan beefcakes
00:29:08 [talli]
we're not worrying about the client, just the server
00:30:03 [markd2]
* markd2 has pasty beefcakes
00:30:54 [talli]
anyone that wants to make it available to their client (evolution, openoffice groupware, emacs, oacs, etc.) can plug in to Momentum either through accepting ical data or using the scriptable interface for specifc apps
00:58:17 [davb]
can someone send me a test email please? dave@thedesignexperience.org.
00:59:35 [markd2]
sent
01:00:56 [davb]
thanks
01:01:26 [davb]
cool. it works. my email seems very light since i restored the server, but it seems to be working.
01:05:20 [GEM]
Ahh, making progress - I see the "Welcome" screen now :-)
01:05:31 [markd2]
woot!
01:11:29 [GEM]
got all these "CREATE" lines in a still-growing netscape window :-)
01:12:29 [GEM]
Hmm. I wonder if it would be possible to have it give some more useful information about what it is creating
01:33:55 [GEM]
Cool! installing packages....
01:37:25 [GEM]
Hmm. would be nice if the previous page had even little prompts to tell you what the various "CREATE", "COMENT", "DROP" and suchlike stateents were related to, like this page does
01:40:24 [GEM]
Creating administrator - getting close!
02:09:07 [denshi]
denshi (toddg@linux128.ma.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs
02:09:12 [denshi]
yo
02:09:16 [markd2]
hi
02:09:20 [talli]
hey denshi
02:10:21 [denshi]
I spent all day on 3 things: cheap women, expensive whiskey, and apache 2 source code.
02:10:33 [talli]
which is the most elegant?
02:10:46 [markd2]
after the whiskey, who cares?
02:10:54 [denshi]
none, really, they're all pretty grimey. but mark is right.
02:11:11 [talli]
how is that hot chick you're living with?
02:11:30 [denshi]
still hot. kind of a goofball, thought, in my opinion.
02:11:39 [talli]
goofballs are good
02:11:43 [denshi]
she's a slacker.
02:11:48 [talli]
so am i!
02:11:51 [markd2]
woot!
02:11:54 [denshi]
me too!
02:11:58 [talli]
this si getting better and better.
02:12:04 [markd2]
markd2 has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Toolkit, 4.5=Tcl and proud of it! | Welcome to goofball slackerville
02:12:55 [denshi]
paje talli and action | "Cut your hair, you slacker!"
02:12:56 [paje]
denshi: excuse me?
02:13:05 [talli]
denshi: if you only knew...
02:13:16 [markd2]
* markd2 paje's talli
02:13:20 [talli]
i cut my dreads off about the same time musea started
02:13:31 [denshi]
how does the paje-feeding syntax go again?
02:13:41 [markd2]
paje: botsnack
02:13:41 [paje]
:)
02:13:42 [markd2]
?
02:14:03 [markd2]
paje: again!
02:14:03 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
02:14:37 [talli]
paje, you always make me feel like a... uhm, a... bot whore
02:14:37 [paje]
talli: excuse me?
02:14:59 [talli]
you know what i mean
02:17:04 [denshi]
I should just feed the combined lyrics of all the Nine Inch Nails into paje and set him loose.
02:17:27 [markd2]
"Smashed up like pickled cheese, smashed up like Ben Vereen,
02:17:27 [markd2]
Smashed up like Mogadishu, smashed up my limousine"
02:17:27 [markd2]
-- Nine Inch Nails
02:18:18 [denshi]
let the bot corruption begin!
02:18:46 [denshi]
I should call my friend David. He once spent 5 hours trying to convince a markov chain it was gay.
02:19:07 [markd2]
heh
02:19:09 [GEM]
paje: paje?
02:19:09 [paje]
i guess i am the medicine man and oracle in Amazonian tribes. I'm also a recipient of church of mike's "full deal" package or a pirate
02:19:17 [GEM]
yow!
02:19:17 [paje]
It's OBVIOUS ... The FURS never reached ISTANBUL ... You were an EXTRA in the REMAKE of "TOPKAPI" ... Go home to your WIFE ... She's making FRENCH TOAST!
02:19:31 [GEM]
who runs paje?
02:19:34 [markd2]
mmmm.. french toast
02:19:48 [GEM]
rbm?
02:19:49 [paje]
rbm is Roberto, http://www.brasileiro.net/
02:19:55 [markd2]
paje, your master?
02:19:55 [paje]
paje's master is roberto.
02:20:14 [denshi]
paje, your daddy?
02:20:14 [paje]
denshi: i don't know
02:20:17 [markd2]
paje, your master?
02:20:17 [paje]
I worship rbm
02:20:19 [markd2]
paje, your master?
02:20:20 [paje]
paje's master is roberto.
02:20:21 [markd2]
paje, your master?
02:20:21 [paje]
i heard my master was roberto.
02:20:22 [denshi]
yow!
02:20:22 [paje]
Please come home with me ... I have Tylenol!!
02:20:26 [GEM]
OK. I know one thing that used to crash another infobot I know
02:20:48 [GEM]
I have a friend who programmed that one to play rock-paper-scissors
02:21:02 [markd2]
over on #wplug monkeybot plays a number guessing game
02:21:04 [GEM]
and I think that someone else fed that one all of "WHo's on first?"
02:21:13 [markd2]
or all your base :-)
02:21:23 [markd2]
[10:21] <markd2> what you say!
02:21:23 [markd2]
[10:21] <monkeybot> take off all 'ZIG' for great justice!
02:22:20 [GEM]
OK, installing a pile of packages, including etp :-)
02:23:16 [GEM]
it's still going...but it's bedtime for me - night, all!
02:23:52 [markd2]
nite
02:24:20 [denshi]
so no go on the apache ragging tonight?
02:24:33 [markd2]
if you'd like to rag, feel free. I'll giggle along
02:24:41 [markd2]
I haven't looked at it at all to comment even unintelligently
02:24:56 [denshi]
just notify me when you hit REM mode.
02:26:02 [denshi]
like I've said before, apache2 is, in my perverted mind, a big win b/c it has operational semantics conformant to nsd; plus you get all that apache modules for free.
02:26:11 [denshi]
for instance, webdav comes with.
02:26:30 [markd2]
cool
02:26:47 [markd2]
think the module owners have what it takes to make the modules threadsafe well?
02:27:07 [denshi]
after some kludging, I think I can make it run in a manner similar to nsd.
02:27:15 [denshi]
as for the module owners....
02:28:04 [denshi]
one of the new things is that the, shall we say, "concurrency module" is abstracted away.
02:29:18 [denshi]
so you can pick and choose one of, I think, 6 modules for the runtime: apache1.3 classic, threaded 1 (worker), threaded 2 (perchild), wintNT, netware, etc.
02:30:10 [denshi]
sure, like half the module owners might not be able to hack threads, but who can make modules that work on all the above?
02:30:13 [denshi]
I'm confused.
02:31:42 [denshi]
here's a wierd design: 'worker' forks processes with a static number of threads... if you need more threads, it forks a new process.
02:31:47 [denshi]
?? the hell?
02:32:02 [davb]
weird.
02:32:16 [denshi]
my /playpen filesystem runneth over with wheel reinvention.
02:32:33 [markd2]
heh
02:32:37 [davb]
can't they just copy aolserver?
02:32:45 [davb]
its what 7 years old?
02:32:57 [denshi]
that's what I'm asking in another window.
02:33:02 [davb]
ah.
02:33:50 [denshi]
anyone: how often, writing oacs code, do you use ns_thread to grab or create a new thread?
02:33:54 [davb]
it I understand correctly, (not likely) one reason for threads is to share data... so if you have two processes with n threads, you have you data split between to processes, so why not just use all processes?
02:33:59 [davb]
me, never.
02:34:02 [markd2]
not often
02:35:04 [davb]
ie. aolserver shares the database pools between all the threads...?
02:35:12 [markd2]
yeah
02:35:27 [markd2]
memoized stuff, the lookup table for url dispatch, etc
02:35:53 [davb]
yeah, so openacs in particular uses it alot.
02:36:06 [denshi]
davb: percieved stability. apache has stability b/c of processes. I, for one, have never in my life seen apache crash.
02:36:15 [davb]
ok.
02:36:18 [davb]
thats cool.
02:36:31 [davb]
I have only seen aolserver crash when my stack was way too small....
02:36:31 [markd2]
single-process coding is *much* simpler than threaded
02:36:35 [davb]
yes.
02:36:51 [denshi]
davb: so they're probably hesitant to abandon it completely.
02:36:55 [davb]
ah.
02:37:13 [davb]
well, of course. that makes sense. depends on what you are doing with it though, right?
02:37:25 [davb]
services 1000 static sites from one machine, no problem.
02:37:47 [davb]
serving one big database-backed monster... maybe not?
02:38:07 [denshi]
this is migrating: we all know why threaded is cool.
02:38:18 [davb]
ah, sorry
02:38:21 [davb]
ok.
02:38:21 [denshi]
and they have it.. in a different way
02:38:59 [denshi]
my question was 'who explicitly creates another thread within a tcl script', apparently no one here does as a matter of course.
02:39:30 [denshi]
reason for asking, is that with the process/thread acstraction layer, I'm not sure if you can ask for a new thread in a script.
02:39:41 [davb]
ah.
02:39:55 [denshi]
still looking; but if no one really uses ns_thread, then maybe oacs4 on apache4 is a real possibility.
02:40:15 [denshi]
errr... apache2. that was a modem typing error, not a fruedian slip.
02:41:14 [denshi]
paje, is talli ill?
02:41:26 [denshi]
* denshi reads the logs
02:44:05 [davb]
the only real reason to use ns_thread in a script it to start a detached thread...that is the only call I can find in openacs4.5 for chat, which I think everyone hates anyway.
02:46:00 [denshi]
thanks davb
02:46:12 [denshi]
paje, botsnak
02:46:12 [paje]
* paje eats paje's botsnak, and part of paje's arm too. Sorry.
02:46:24 [denshi]
davb, codersnack
02:47:40 [davb]
yum!
02:50:36 [denshi]
well, there are other things to complain about, but I'll get back to work now
02:50:59 [denshi]
hazmat, GEM, good luck w/ job hunts.
02:51:16 [davb]
* davb also notes that the optimum number of threads for AOLserver, at least on photo.net was around 10...
02:53:52 [denshi]
l8r
02:53:57 [denshi]
denshi has quit ("denshi has no reason")
02:53:58 [davb]
bye
02:56:40 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
03:26:40 [talli]
talli has quit (Remote closed the connection)
03:38:59 [IRCMonkey]
IRCMonkey has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:0.9.9/20020326]")
03:45:26 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
04:07:28 [talli]
talli (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs
04:19:37 [rbm]
ooom
04:20:35 [talli]
hey rbm
04:20:41 [talli]
did you get any info from travelocity?
04:34:49 [rbm]
talli: I sent you a /msg earlier
04:35:17 [rbm]
talli: I got an e-mail with a travel id, but when I login it doesn't let me see the travel info. It says I need to cal some 1-800 number.
04:37:06 [talli]
hmmm... ok
04:37:11 [talli]
can you forward that to me?
04:37:19 [talli]
i didn't see your /msg before, sorry bout that
04:38:38 [rbm]
talli: Want me to forward the e-mail?
04:38:43 [talli]
please
04:50:00 [rbm]
talli: done.
04:50:51 [rbm]
talli: Excellent!
05:36:02 [madvenu]
madvenu (madvenu@82.cambridge-02rh15rt.ma.dial-access.att.net) has joined #openacs
05:36:25 [madvenu]
hi
05:36:25 [paje]
hey, madvenu
05:36:36 [madvenu]
any one know of the ACS 3.x source ?
05:36:43 [madvenu]
where can I download it ?
05:37:03 [madvenu]
i can't find a copy on arsdigita.com...
05:37:07 [madvenu]
hi paje
05:38:19 [madvenu]
is the openacs 3.x code == acs 3.x ?
05:38:50 [madvenu]
i have setup acs 4.2 tcl on a test box... and wanted to setup the adserver modules..
05:39:00 [madvenu]
but looks like its not been ported yet.. :(
05:39:24 [madvenu]
hello ?
05:39:26 [madvenu]
anobody ?
05:39:45 [madvenu]
i am being offtopic here ? :)
05:39:49 [talli]
openacs.org
05:39:57 [talli]
oh, wait
05:40:05 [madvenu]
ok
05:40:07 [talli]
you want acs3.4, with oracle?
05:40:12 [madvenu]
yes
05:40:23 [talli]
hmm... lemme think where that is...
05:40:27 [madvenu]
basically lookiing for a 'stable' ACS
05:40:33 [talli]
i think it's at sussdorfroy.com
05:40:39 [talli]
oacs4.5 is stable!!!
05:40:55 [talli]
what are you looking to do?
05:41:00 [madvenu]
sure !!, but does it work with oracle too ?
05:41:15 [talli]
oh, my son, you're new around here, huh?
05:41:21 [talli]
yes, it works with oracle and pg
05:41:32 [talli]
oacs4.5 is acs4.2++
05:41:42 [talli]
lots of bug fixes and enhancements
05:41:44 [madvenu]
cool.. well, i am new .. yes, not tried openacs 4.x...
05:41:55 [talli]
and extended to work with both oracle and pg
05:41:57 [madvenu]
had setup openacs 3.x a looong while ago :)
05:41:58 [talli]
welcome!
05:41:59 [madvenu]
ok
05:42:03 [madvenu]
cool
05:42:25 [talli]
we've been improving and fixing acs4.2 for abut a year now
05:42:47 [madvenu]
ok, i will go look at openacs 4.5 and come back here...wait.. let me see if its got the modules i am looking for.. :D
05:42:48 [talli]
it's still beta just because don baccus has high standards for released software
05:42:56 [talli]
what are you looking for?
05:43:16 [madvenu]
well, CMS, e-commerce, ad server,
05:43:33 [talli]
those are there. at least as much as they were for 3.4
05:43:33 [madvenu]
want to suggest acs for a govt. customer..
05:43:38 [talli]
ah... cool
05:43:59 [madvenu]
hello, talli, i saw on the oacs site that there is a meet on the 23rd..
05:44:02 [talli]
ecommerce is the bugger
05:44:06 [talli]
yeah, there is
05:44:13 [talli]
are you in boston?
05:44:14 [madvenu]
but i am going away tomorrow night from boston.. :(
05:44:18 [talli]
bummer
05:44:43 [talli]
you won't be back for 2 weeks?
05:44:53 [madvenu]
i live in india..
05:45:07 [madvenu]
am here to give a tech presentation to the govt. body..
05:45:21 [madvenu]
so you see, i am probably not the best person to do this...
05:45:25 [talli]
ah, bummer
05:45:37 [talli]
a tech presentation to which gov body?
05:45:37 [madvenu]
but then the best people would rather be coding :)
05:45:39 [talli]
US or india?
05:45:45 [madvenu]
US
05:45:52 [talli]
ah, cool
05:45:56 [madvenu]
i am sorry, not able to give names as of now..
05:46:00 [talli]
understood
05:46:06 [talli]
which company are you from?
05:46:17 [madvenu]
but then, if we get this contract..
05:46:38 [madvenu]
would be looking out for support / programmers for the project..
05:47:02 [talli]
well, my company, musea technologies, is an OACS shop
05:47:08 [madvenu]
tried to talk to redhat for a 30k $ 3 month contract..
05:47:13 [madvenu]
but didn't work out..
05:47:27 [madvenu]
yes, i was reading about musea..
05:47:36 [talli]
30K per month or 30K over 3 months?
05:47:55 [talli]
either way, i think that is a bit too low for redhat
05:48:01 [madvenu]
well, 30k over 3 months for 1 person.. + additional support reveues yearly
05:48:03 [talli]
they are (needlessly) expensive
05:48:08 [talli]
ah, cool
05:48:14 [madvenu]
yes
05:48:18 [madvenu]
thats what they said...
05:48:27 [talli]
well, those are numbers that are roughly in our neighborhood, depending on the work
05:48:31 [madvenu]
they want to take the whole pie... :)
05:48:38 [madvenu]
ok
05:48:39 [talli]
yes, that's what those guys do
05:49:03 [madvenu]
talli, i am meeting with chris@aduni.org tomorrow
05:49:08 [talli]
redhat's sites are much higher, and honestly, they aren't so great a shop for dev. at least, arsdigita wasn't
05:49:09 [madvenu]
here at boston..
05:49:13 [talli]
cool
05:49:23 [madvenu]
can i meet up with you too ?
05:49:27 [talli]
if you want, i can put you in touch with my engineer, luke pond, who lives in cambrdige
05:49:33 [madvenu]
ok
05:49:39 [talli]
well, i'm in California right now, usually in NYC
05:49:46 [madvenu]
oh, ok
05:49:56 [talli]
btw, you are looking for Tcl, not Java, right?
05:50:05 [madvenu]
YUP :)
05:50:07 [madvenu]
TCL
05:50:10 [talli]
excellent
05:50:34 [madvenu]
whats Luke's contacts ?
05:50:35 [hazmat]
talli: where in calli are you?
05:50:50 [talli]
hazmat: i'm in the SF bay area right now
05:51:12 [hazmat]
cool, if you make down to socal, let me know.
05:51:42 [talli]
i would, but i'm headed back to NYC tomorrow
05:52:29 [hazmat]
next time then. are you coming to the oreilly open source convention?
05:52:47 [talli]
i don't know. that's a good question
05:52:51 [talli]
when is it? and where?
05:53:17 [hazmat]
july san deigo, ca http://conferences.oreilly.com
05:55:17 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit (Remote closed the connection)
06:35:59 [rbm]
paje: seen talli?
06:35:59 [paje]
talli was last seen on #openacs 43 minutes and 8 seconds ago, saying: when is it? and where? [Sun Apr 7 23:53:31 2002]
06:54:29 [madvenu]
madvenu has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
06:58:49 [talli]
hey rbm
06:58:58 [talli]
still there?
06:58:59 [paje]
there are none.
06:59:04 [talli]
paje, seen rbm?
06:59:04 [paje]
rbm was last seen on #openacs 23 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: paje: seen talli? [Mon Apr 8 00:36:39 2002]
07:10:07 [talli]
paje, seen shagster?
07:10:08 [paje]
shagster was last seen on #openacs 2 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes and 48 seconds ago, saying: runs out of office while phone is not ringning [Fri Apr 5 14:26:59 2002]
07:27:55 [talli]
* talli heads to bed
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12:36:50 [GEM]
Hey Dave! I'm looking at some lovely apm screens :-)
12:38:16 [davb]
great.
12:39:12 [davb]
argh.
12:39:20 [lilo]
[Global Notice] Hi all. In a moment we'll need to restart both European and Australian hubbing as well as a few servers in the US and in Europe as a bit of finishing up from the weekend's conversion activity. Please bear with us.
12:39:20 [GEM]
what?
12:39:43 [davb]
I updated DNS for my web server back on thursday night. my ISP still hasn't updated thier servers.
12:40:48 [lilo]
[Global Notice] Further info will be provided on WALLOPS (/umode +w, /mode <yournick> +w) as it progresses and then a final global notice.
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13:03:19 [lilo]
[Global Notice] Hi all. We should be finished with the last-minute tweaking. Have a great afternoon!
13:16:13 [GEM]
davb: yes, that counts as an "argh"
13:49:18 [rbm]
ooom
13:51:10 [GEM]
aaab
13:52:34 [Psychephylax]
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13:52:38 [Psychephylax]
Morning
13:53:13 [rbm]
morning
13:54:04 [til]
til has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
13:54:26 [Psychephylax]
¿oom
13:55:24 [GEM]
morning Psychephylax
13:56:08 [til]
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14:02:03 [davb]
hi Psychephylax
14:13:12 [shagster]
Ugh, I hate having the flu
14:14:26 [Psychephylax]
Hey neighborinos :)
14:14:34 [Psychephylax]
I got my green star today
14:15:33 [shagster]
Green Star ?
14:26:05 [Psychephylax]
on dslreports.com
14:37:49 [shagster]
Ahhh!
15:11:21 [markd2]
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15:45:46 [starets]
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15:47:20 [markd2]
Hey Pete
15:47:22 [markd2]
what's up?
15:47:52 [starets]
hey mark. How was the ranch?
15:48:34 [starets]
What's so scary about cartoon characters vomiting candy from their necks? Seems perfectly normal to me.
15:48:51 [markd2]
heh
15:48:55 [markd2]
the ranch was awesome
15:49:12 [starets]
Planning some cocoa goodness in your retirement?
15:49:23 [markd2]
now i'm unsure of my career thoughts given how much fun I had working with the stuff
15:53:11 [markd2]
ah, wish I had the funds for reirement =:-O
15:58:36 [markd2]
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16:04:59 [markd2]
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16:11:51 [davb]
btw, i got my dotlrn test site up. if anyone want to see how it looks let me know.
16:12:09 [markd2]
is it everythign we've been dreaming of?
16:12:31 [davb]
heh
16:12:35 [davb]
no, you already saw it.
16:12:47 [davb]
I just reinstalled it after I had to temporarily remove oracle...
16:13:41 [davb]
I still want to get ETP working as a dotlrn applet. that would be really cool.
16:34:00 [markd2]
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16:54:08 [ms]
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16:54:29 [markd2]
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17:27:25 [GEM]
Hmm. sounds like a fun thing to check sometime, davb...where is it?
17:28:18 [hazmat]
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17:58:40 [andy_]
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17:59:06 [talli]
hey hazmat, denshi
17:59:29 [denshi]
hey
18:00:43 [ms]
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18:01:17 [andy_]
anyone know where in aolserver I would set this link /usr/lib/plpgsql.so
18:01:51 [andy_]
it is pointing to the wrong place, it needs to point to /usr/lib/pgsql/plpg.sql.so
18:03:13 [denshi]
2 options:
18:03:35 [denshi]
1) set a symlink
18:03:53 [andy_]
that is what i did and it worked but I'd rather set it in a config file
18:04:03 [denshi]
2) set the environment variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/pgsql/
18:04:18 [denshi]
that adds that directory to the library search path.
18:04:31 [andy_]
cool thanks
18:05:18 [denshi]
in practice, you'll want 'export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/lib/pgsql/' under bash, and 'setenv LD_L....blahblahbla' under tcsh.
18:05:33 [andy_]
is there a file i can add that to?
18:05:40 [andy_]
i'm using bash
18:05:56 [andy_]
seems like it should be system wide as well
18:10:43 [denshi]
umm.. I'm not on my linux box right now, I think it's in /etc/libconf or something.
18:10:52 [denshi]
gimme a second to hook up and boot.
18:11:01 [davb]
andy_: hang on...
18:11:15 [denshi]
or listen to davb. he knows all.
18:11:37 [davb]
ns_section ns/db/driver/postgres
18:11:38 [davb]
ns_param pgbin /usr/local/pgsql/bin
18:11:47 [davb]
i know because I recently screwed it up :)
18:12:23 [andy_]
davb: this is in nsd.tcl correct?
18:12:28 [davb]
andy yes.
18:14:06 [davb]
stupid DNS.
18:14:13 [davb]
4 days is toooooo loooong
18:14:54 [davb]
oops, it worked!
18:14:55 [davb]
yeah!
18:15:30 [denshi]
woah. I never knew that, davb.
18:15:57 [michaels]
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18:16:00 [davb]
if your postgresql lives in a non-standard place, you learn :)
18:16:27 [davb]
hi michaels
18:16:35 [michaels]
hey
18:16:35 [denshi]
ms, is NickServ giving you trouble?
18:16:47 [davb]
can anyone get to www.thedesignexperience.org ?
18:17:00 [michaels]
not that i know of
18:17:43 [michaels]
got a request error
18:17:47 [davb]
argh.
18:17:49 [davb]
weird.
18:18:14 [markd2]
called "weblog_entry_date" with too many arguments
18:18:26 [markd2]
and you have a typo in the page contract :-)
18:19:40 [davb]
ah. so the dns is getting out there at least a little.
18:19:56 [davb]
very surprised about the broken page. is that the index?
18:20:22 [davb]
oh, wait, I think that is the code I "fixed"... :)
18:20:47 [markd2]
heh
18:25:43 [GEM]
yup, we can see your name in it, Dave :-)
18:27:34 [shagster]
davb: I can get to the page, but get an error (Just like the others)
18:28:34 [GEM]
Hey - any "ETP for dummies" intros or "subsites for dummies" ones?
18:35:36 [talli]
GEM: you can check out etp.museatech.net perhaps
18:35:36 [oacs-chump]
Label GEM not found.
18:41:54 [davb]
GEM, or just ask any questions you have here :)
18:42:57 [michaels]
i have a subsite question, actually
18:43:40 [michaels]
is anyone using general comments with subsites and openacs 4.5b?
18:47:13 [davb]
I think you need to mount a general comments on the root of each subsite...
18:47:44 [michaels]
i did that
18:48:05 [michaels]
it appears to work ok if one is logged in already
18:49:19 [davb]
what part of general comments isn't working?
18:49:24 [michaels]
however, if you're not logged in and try to add a comment, you get a fk error - no creation user - on comment-add-3
18:50:00 [davb]
ah.
18:50:13 [davb]
are non-registered users supposed to be able to add comments?
18:50:19 [michaels]
nope
18:50:31 [davb]
I never tried with a subsite.
18:50:35 [michaels]
but shouldn't they get thrown to a login page?
18:50:53 [davb]
I would think so. I think there is somethig with subsites and login information..
18:51:22 [davb]
something wrong that is.
18:51:53 [michaels]
i found a few threads along those lines but couldn't find anything concrete other than the missing port on redirects. and that was fixed.
18:55:31 [davb]
sorry, i am not really sure what it takes to make a package subsite aware...
18:55:33 [GEM]
talli: *grin* I've read about everything there, and am not sure just how to begin using etp. Of course, this is also my first actual attempt at building stuff with any ACS, so am not sure where to start
18:55:48 [davb]
GEM, what do you want to do with it :)?
18:56:59 [GEM]
well, actually start using it, basically :-)
18:57:52 [davb]
heh. you mounted it to a directory?
18:57:57 [davb]
DO NOT mount it at /etp
18:58:02 [davb]
it will not work correctly.
18:58:23 [markd2]
ETp-hone home
18:58:42 [GEM]
not yet. Still figuring out how to use the admin stuff, too. Very new at actually *using* ACS
18:58:57 [davb]
right.
19:11:33 [talli]
anyone here familiar with chicago airports?
19:11:53 [talli]
is it logistically bad to fly into midway rather than o
19:12:11 [talli]
o'hare if you need to get into chicago?
19:32:34 [davb]
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19:33:36 [hazmat]
i always fly into o'hare, so i have no basis of comparison...
19:33:59 [hazmat]
never had any problems with it. depends on where in chicago you're heading as well. ask a local
19:39:53 [davb]
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19:40:29 [toddg]
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19:40:56 [davb]
GEM if you can get to www.thedesignexperience.org, it was all done with ETP
19:43:13 [denshi]
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19:46:40 [denshi]
anyone have any samples of good oacs4.5 templates?
19:47:13 [davb]
define good :)
19:47:24 [davb]
you can see mine.
19:51:48 [denshi]
where?
19:52:17 [davb]
.. www.thedesignexperience.org/tdxindex.tar.gz
19:52:24 [davb]
unless your dns doesn't like it...
19:52:59 [denshi]
my DNS Looooves you.
19:53:03 [davb]
heh
19:53:14 [davb]
woohoo!
19:53:21 [davb]
finally roadrunner updated their dns
19:53:34 [markd2]
woot!
19:53:53 [davb]
hmmm, still can't get there though...
19:55:07 [GEM]
dave: cool. I am almost getting somewhere with my stuff. I like tde.org :-)
19:55:07 [rbm]
oom
19:55:15 [davb]
weird. works from lynx
19:55:22 [davb]
GEM, great.
19:55:36 [davb]
I hope new-portal gets into openacs 4.5 or at least 4.6.
19:59:10 [talli]
rbm: are you going to go to aaronsw's talk at 6.171?
20:05:07 [rbm]
talli: I don't know when's that happening, where it's taking place, or how to get there.
20:05:24 [rbm]
Is he coming for the social?
20:05:29 [talli]
he can't stay the night
20:05:40 [talli]
lemme get you the info...
20:08:06 [GEM]
hmm. etp2.0 is available?
20:08:25 [talli]
not yet.
20:09:19 [GEM]
OK, I was confused by something on Davb's page, is all
20:09:47 [talli]
davb is one of the hackers on ETP2, so you can ask him to look at it
20:10:07 [davb]
etp 2.0 is not on my page either.
20:10:39 [davb]
But go ahead an ask!
20:10:42 [GEM]
thought that you mentioned it there, Dave. something about getting ready for it
20:10:52 [talli]
rbm: http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/bostonTrip
20:11:04 [davb]
yeah. I have the first cut of the code, but haven't had a chance to work on it.
20:13:46 [denshi]
???? is aaron going to MIT?
20:14:06 [talli]
yes, but not as a student
20:14:19 [talli]
as a featured speaker for philg's class
20:14:21 [denshi]
where does he go now?
20:14:22 [talli]
holy christ!
20:14:26 [talli]
he's 14 ;)
20:14:34 [talli]
he homeschools
20:14:38 [denshi]
sweet jesus!
20:14:46 [talli]
yes, for sure
20:14:53 [talli]
great guy, too
20:15:00 [denshi]
are you ready to retire?
20:15:06 [denshi]
'cause I'm not.
20:15:20 [talli]
do you guys know that the suggested toolkit to build apps for 6.171 is .net????
20:15:34 [talli]
http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/6171/2002-spring/
20:15:34 [oacs-chump]
B: http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/6171/2002-spring/ from talli
20:16:00 [talli]
B: philg recommends .net first, aolserver+oracle second, no aolserver+pg anywhere
20:16:00 [oacs-chump]
added comment B1
20:16:01 [denshi]
how much do you need to pay for that?
20:16:06 [talli]
none.
20:16:17 [talli]
he recommends you contact the campus MS rep :(
20:16:44 [denshi]
as for nsd+pg, well, and philg was open to outside arguments.... when, exactly?
20:16:54 [talli]
haha
20:17:15 [talli]
i think he stopped when he became the confirmed Greatest Sofware Engineer Ever
20:18:13 [talli]
btw, denshi, my friend is dating one of the guys that built yahoo! store
20:18:58 [denshi]
which one?
20:19:05 [talli]
uhm... his name is alex
20:19:50 [talli]
a math guy from harvard, me thinks
20:22:01 [denshi]
only guys I know who were on that were Paul Graham & cohort Robert Morris.
20:22:31 [denshi]
and if memory serves me correctly, that's the same Robert Morris who unleashed the Great Worm back in the late 80s.
20:23:19 [rbm]
Did aaron really mean to say "when he's really _board_..."?
20:24:00 [denshi]
yes.
20:24:04 [denshi]
it's a play on words.
20:24:38 [denshi]
aaronsw has a degenerative illness that makes him tense up when he has nothing to do, to the point he appears similar to planed lumber.
20:24:46 [rbm]
I usually see people misspelling "bored" as "board"
20:25:28 [rbm]
* rbm tries to get some work done.
20:26:02 [davb]
talli: you mean yahoo store, the terminally undocumented?
20:28:30 [davb]
time to go. catch you all later
20:28:33 [davb]
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20:49:08 [denshi]
actually, talli, I read a book on C# a few days ago.
20:50:02 [denshi]
it's sort of like "Java, but we actually spent more time than our lunchbreak on designing it"
20:50:57 [denshi]
but nothing new. of course, the documentation claims it invented cheese, sliced bread, and monotheism.
20:51:11 [markd2]
heh
20:52:54 [rbm]
I flipped through a C# book at the bookstore once and several times I had to look back at the cover to make sure I hadn't grabbed a Java book instead.
20:57:31 [markd2]
does C# hijack the java libraries too?
20:58:27 [rbm]
dunno
20:59:57 [denshi]
the libs are probably smaller, but you'd have to expect that.
21:00:16 [denshi]
I'm not sure, but the lang *might* be more static.
21:02:18 [talli]
my friend's opinion of .net is that it's just a catchup, nothing really new
21:02:34 [talli]
i've heard that C# is better than Java, but what the hell does that mean?
21:02:35 [markd2]
so therefore it'll be wildly popular
21:02:50 [talli]
well, they've got philg.
21:02:59 [talli]
now all he has to do is write a book about it...
21:03:27 [talli]
maybe he flew too high
21:03:39 [talli]
or he ate too much processed cheese aboard his RV
21:03:47 [rbm]
(:
21:03:57 [markd2]
heh
21:04:40 [denshi]
C# has just one thing better than Java: the object system encompasses the primitive types.
21:05:11 [rbm]
That's nice. I hated having to do so much casting.
21:05:29 [markd2]
does it have type-safe (or at least type-aware) containers?
21:05:33 [rbm]
s/casting/explicit casting when using the primitive types/
21:05:36 [markd2]
casting everything on the way out of a container Just Seems Wrong
21:06:21 [denshi]
on the downside, you have to play in the language space defined by a convicted predatory monopolist.
21:06:47 [denshi]
which kind of devalues type systems.
21:07:07 [markd2]
heh
21:07:37 [denshi]
I'm not sold on the whole CLI thing.
21:07:47 [markd2]
I think binary is overrated
21:08:03 [denshi]
0xI 0xagree.
21:08:15 [markd2]
* markd2 puts a hex on 0xtalli
21:08:32 [talli]
damn. another one
21:08:34 [talli]
paje, again?
21:08:35 [paje]
no idea, talli
21:08:41 [rbm]
BTW, if you're looking for a good business book to read, "An Innovator's Tale" by Craig R. Hickman ("Mind of a Manager, Soul of a Leader", "Creating Excellence", etc.) is just superb.
21:09:05 [rbm]
I met with the author friday and got my copy autographed.
21:09:26 [talli]
anyone ever read "A Whack on the Side of the Head"
21:09:29 [talli]
?
21:09:34 [markd2]
yeah. long time ago
21:09:37 [rbm]
paje: whack talli
21:09:38 [paje]
rbm: sorry...
21:09:44 [talli]
i'm not one for biz books, much, but i really like some of the points in that book
21:09:45 [rbm]
paje: again!
21:09:46 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
21:10:14 [rbm]
"An Innovator's Tale" is about, well, innovation. And it's a novel, a very good one at that I might add.
21:10:43 [rbm]
5 stars on Amazon last I checked
21:12:40 [talli]
if you like biz novels, check out Eliyahu Goldratt
21:13:02 [talli]
i couldn't read his books because there was a woman character named BJ, but i've heard they are great for project management
21:47:00 [denshi]
paje, botsnack
21:47:00 [paje]
:)
21:50:41 [davb]
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22:09:19 [markd2]
Eliyahu the Shuhite
22:11:43 [denshi]
stop drinking peyote so early in the day, mark
22:11:56 [markd2]
sorry
22:11:57 [markd2]
*hic*
22:12:07 [markd2]
Wiley E. Peyote
22:13:47 [markd2]
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22:13:51 [davb]
any dns gurus?
22:19:07 [michaels]
not a guru but might be able to help
22:21:38 [michaels]
michaels has left #openacs
22:34:54 [shagster]
I'm not a DNS guru, but I play one on the Internet :)
22:47:26 [dwalker]
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22:48:14 [davb]
heh
22:48:25 [davb]
i get this:
22:48:27 [davb]
dave@leo:~$ host -t mx thedesignexperience.org a.ns.ods.org
22:48:27 [davb]
thedesignexperience.org MX 10 server1.thedesignexperience.org
22:48:27 [davb]
!!! thedesignexperience.org MX host server1.thedesignexperience.org is not canonical
22:48:56 [davb]
and this is the A record
22:48:58 [davb]
dave@leo:~$ host server1.thedesignexperience.org
22:48:58 [davb]
server1.thedesignexperience.org A 24.58.160.28
22:49:03 [dwalker]
what does canonical mean?
22:49:05 [davb]
I use www.ods.org
22:49:12 [davb]
that is my question :)
22:49:42 [dwalker]
hmm. I should look this up
22:49:47 [davb]
not all my email seems to be making it through. so I suspect those !!! are screwing it up.
22:51:35 [davb]
i think canonical in this case refers to the A record of a host
22:54:15 [dwalker]
server1.thedesignexperience.org is a CNAME entry?
22:54:25 [davb]
not according to me :)
22:55:16 [davb]
I wonder if its because my ISP is assigning a Name: alb-24-58-160-28.nycap.rr.com to the DHCP ip address
22:55:18 [dwalker]
not according to me either. hmm. I'll find another idea
22:59:19 [davb]
thanks!
23:11:07 [jim]
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23:11:24 [rbm]
* rbm bows to jim
23:11:29 [jim]
heya :)
23:13:13 [denshi]
hey jim, have you played with apache2 yet?
23:13:27 [davb]
* davb waves to jim
23:13:48 [jim]
denshi: I just got my connection back and working again, after the several days of offlineness :)
23:14:00 [denshi]
welcome back to the living.
23:14:16 [jim]
or at least the streaming :)
23:16:29 [jim]
and attbi has finally gotten around to making my IP more dynamic...
23:16:37 [jim]
had that .5 ip for quite awhile...
23:16:38 [denshi]
whoa.. talli, do you know that your dns redirects to 'http://pps.org/upo/'?
23:16:56 [talli]
that's because your DNS provider ain't so hot
23:17:05 [talli]
tell them they need to renew their dns
23:17:21 [talli]
that's been an issue for a lonnnnng time
23:17:51 [jim]
* jim smells the coffee, and notices that current servers send an update pulse to their secondaries :)
23:18:18 [jim]
dunno how far up the chain that pulse goes tho
23:18:28 [denshi]
well, actually, I think it's your problem: it shows itself from 3 different servers with distinct DNS servers.
23:18:52 [talli]
can you email me the info?
23:19:13 [denshi]
ssh somewhere and try it yourself: "http://www.museatech.net" goes to musea, "http://museatech.net" goes to urban parks.
23:19:19 [talli]
if you were to check out DNS records and our servers, you'd see that on our side everything is correct
23:19:22 [talli]
i have tried it
23:19:40 [jim]
* jim could try that...
23:20:07 [talli]
since the site launched in April of 2000 it's been an issue, and it usually comes down to the DNS providers not having updated their records in a while
23:20:12 [jim]
Domain servers in listed order:
23:20:12 [jim]
A.NS.MUSEATECH.NET 166.84.6.3
23:20:12 [jim]
B.NS.MUSEATECH.NET 166.84.4.56
23:20:17 [dwalker]
I get musea either way
23:20:22 [jim]
is that correct?
23:20:24 [shagster]
same here
23:20:44 [dwalker]
was there some huge ttl back then or something?
23:21:03 [denshi]
i've never seen a ttl longer than 18 hours
23:22:25 [talli]
denshi: when i do museatech.net, i get the musea website
23:22:50 [talli]
denshi: try changing your DNS servers
23:24:26 [jim]
ok, I'm getting what I think are correct results... {,www.}museatech.net. goes to 166.84.6.2
23:24:36 [jim]
and YES, there is a -huge- ttl
23:24:43 [jim]
museatech.net.259200INNSb.ns.museatech.net.
23:25:24 [jim]
looks to be like 3 weeks
23:25:24 [talli]
that DNS server didn't exist until last summer.
23:25:30 [denshi]
it works if I flush cache and talk to your DNS.
23:25:41 [talli]
there ya go
23:26:03 [jim]
what happens if you flush your cache and don't say what dns to talk to?
23:26:41 [jim]
(also, how can a dns record redirect to a particular dir of an http?)
23:27:59 [jim]
talli: could it be that (if you have a *acs) your properties are set such that it redirects to the other site?
23:28:14 [davb]
dave@leo:~$ host museatech.net
23:28:14 [davb]
museatech.net A 166.84.4.58
23:28:35 [jim]
that's a different address than I'm getting
23:28:35 [davb]
but we already know my ISP sucks DNS
23:28:45 [jim]
museatech.net.86400INA166.84.6.2
23:28:57 [davb]
I think thats the right one.
23:29:23 [jim]
b.ns.museatech.net.259200INA166.84.4.56
23:29:47 [jim]
wonder if a and b both have the same data?
23:32:39 [davb]
jim: dns can only get you to a host, the server does the redirect to a directory
23:33:15 [jim]
davb: yeah, I thought I remembered that correctly :)
23:50:18 [GEM]
Hm. getting somewhere slowly with etp...
23:50:18 [dwalker]
dwalker has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:51:23 [talli]
davb is the person to talk to about ETP, GEM
23:51:44 [jim]
yeah, he's got lots of exp with it
23:52:00 [davb]
well, relatively anyway
23:52:56 [talli]
more than anyone here, at least ;)
23:57:46 [GEM]
Not a lot of stuff yet, but I am getting there