IRC log of openacs on 2002-04-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:32 [vinod]

denshi: it's ok if you have to dig into dissertations to prove your ideas unoriginal. now, when you start seeing your "original" ides being implemented on msft's front page, well ...

00:03:42 [denshi]

rolf

00:03:51 [denshi]

i mean, rotflmao

00:04:01 [markd2]

no, you mean rolf

00:04:09 [markd2]

Rolf speaks to us through the subconcious of others

00:04:16 [markd2]

Give In to your Inner Rolf

00:04:16 [vinod]

haha

00:04:17 [markd2]

and gitdown!

00:04:17 [paje]

gitfunky

00:04:36 [denshi]

you might be right... I work near wolf street, and every time I see the sign I read it as 'rzolf'.

00:05:25 [denshi]

http://www.theonion.com/onion3539/national_funk_congress.html

00:05:26 [oacs-chump]

A: http://www.theonion.com/onion3539/national_funk_congress.html from denshi

00:05:43 [markd2]

so, does the onion write serious stuff on apirl 1?

00:05:52 [denshi]

A: National Funk Congress deadlocked on Get Up/Get Down Issue

00:05:52 [oacs-chump]

commented item A

00:05:54 [vinod]

haha

00:06:37 [denshi]

A: "Until our country's funky leaders can resolve this deadlock, U.S. funk leadership, and the booties of all Americans, will remain immobilized,"

00:06:37 [oacs-chump]

commented item A

00:34:26 [markd2]

markd2 has quit ("Ni Pop Nooo!!!!!")

00:36:26 [davb]

davb has quit (Remote closed the connection)

00:36:46 [davb]

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00:36:55 [davb]

don't restart gpm while X is running

00:37:53 [davb]

argh.

00:38:08 [davb]

I though I had fixed the bash_profile not executed in X problem

00:38:27 [davb]

When I ran gnome it used to "just work"

00:38:35 [denshi]

night guys

00:38:36 [denshi]

denshi has quit ()

00:38:39 [davb]

bye

00:38:52 [rbm]

anyone loads tcl modules in AOLserver here?

00:39:00 [davb]

I have done it before.

00:39:07 [davb]

tcl modules written in tcl?

00:39:22 [rbm]

Yes

00:39:36 [rbm]

I want it so I don't have to set tcl_pkgPath, etc. in every script.

00:39:50 [davb]

you have to put the files in a directory under the tcllibdir

00:40:10 [davb]

then do in the modules section of the config file ns_param module packagename tcl

00:40:13 [rbm]

I thought that if I included the "global tcl_pkgPath", etc. in $AOLSERVERDIR/modules/tcl/init.tcl that it'd get taken care of

00:40:28 [davb]

where packagename is the directory name where you stashed the files.

00:40:36 [davb]

you might have to rename them so they load in order.

00:40:38 [rbm]

I don't want the modules to be loaded in _every_ new thread. I want to be able to do "package require foo"

00:40:47 [davb]

oh.

00:41:21 [davb]

your idea should work for tcl files, but adp files need that tcl_pkgPath in every file if I am not mistaken.

00:41:29 [rbm]

oh really?

00:41:42 [rbm]

I'm using ACS 4.2 (classic)

00:42:00 [davb]

either that or its the other way around. I poked around in the aolserver source, ADP and Tcl are setup different when an interp is called.

00:43:25 [davb]

there was a discussion about it in the aolserver list a while back, before I converted tclxmlrpc to use nsxml.

00:43:47 [markd2]

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00:44:55 [davb]

brb

00:44:58 [davb]

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00:45:35 [davb]

aha. now I remember, I put the stuff in the xsession file and it loads.

00:45:51 [rbm]

hmm?

00:46:41 [rbm]

So I have to source init.tcl in every adp?

00:46:57 [davb]

not quite...

00:47:02 [davb]

let me look

00:47:49 [rbm]

Looks like setting up tcl_pkgPath in init.tcl doesn't work from an ADP. It can't find the var.

00:48:10 [davb]

right, you need to do a little trick.

00:49:22 [davb]

set tcl_library [file join $tcl_pkgPath tcl${tcl_version}]

00:49:22 [davb]

source [file join $tcl_library init.tcl]

00:49:35 [davb]

heh, that is an a message you repsonded to on the list :)

00:50:28 [rbm]

doing "global tcl_pkgPath; global tcl_library" makes the var available, but still no package require

00:50:46 [davb]

ack. yeah you do need to source that init.tcl

00:50:48 [rbm]

davb: I know that, but I don't think I tried with package require when I posted that

00:50:57 [rbm]

davb: what's the url?

00:50:57 [davb]

package require will work with that.

00:51:12 [davb]

http://listserv.aol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0006&L=aolserver&P=R8022&X=6221793B1E69696698&Y=dave@deepskydesign.com

00:51:12 [oacs-chump]

B: http://listserv.aol.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0006&L=aolserver&P=R8022&X=6221793B1E69696698&Y=dave@deepskydesign.com from davb

00:51:15 [davb]

ick

00:51:30 [davb]

I have done it.

00:51:41 [davb]

I really wish they would just make it work correctly. maybe in 4.0

00:52:51 [rbm]

davb: You need the Community Uber-Search:

00:52:52 [rbm]

http://michael.cleverly.com/aolserver/search/

00:52:52 [oacs-chump]

C: http://michael.cleverly.com/aolserver/search/ from rbm

00:53:11 [davb]

that indexes the aolserver list? cool.

00:53:12 [jim]

davb: you found the 404 problem?

00:53:12 [rbm]

C:|Michael Cleverly's AOLserver/OpenACS Community Uber-Search

00:53:13 [oacs-chump]

titled item C

00:54:23 [davb]

jim. testing now.

00:54:51 [rbm]

So how come 'package require' still fails for me?

00:55:32 [davb]

hmmm.

00:55:34 [davb]

not sure.

00:56:36 [davb]

aolserver somehow breaks tcl by not setting the environment correctly when it creates and interpreter

00:57:35 [davb]

jim: using mozilla, when I click on the offending page (not a 404 error) it says connection refused almost instantly.

00:58:06 [jim]

davb: interesting...

00:58:17 [jim]

what shell are you using?

00:58:19 [jim]

bash?

00:58:21 [davb]

the log shows a bunch of queries then bang it stops, no errors or anything.

00:58:23 [davb]

yeah.

00:58:39 [jim]

I dunno even how to begin figuring this out...

00:58:48 [rbm]

Ack! doing the same thing in tclsh works!

00:59:04 [jim]

davb: can we take a right turn for a sec/

00:59:05 [jim]

?

00:59:26 [davb]

sure, but I have to be careful I don't crash into the wife... not alot of room in this office.

00:59:36 [jim]

oh :)

00:59:48 [jim]

ok :)

00:59:59 [rbm]

jim: Did you see that I was assigned an AM?

01:00:11 [rbm]

We even exchanged a couple mails already

01:00:23 [jim]

davb: umm, earlier when you downloaded aolserver from me, you registered on my site... yes?

01:00:32 [jim]

rbm: excellent!

01:00:43 [jim]

how'd they go?

01:00:56 [rbm]

jim: pretty good so far.

01:01:01 [davb]

that is correct.

01:01:14 [jim]

ok, did I require an email?

01:01:29 [davb]

no. it just let me right in.

01:01:44 [jim]

ok, sheesh... lemme check my settings

01:03:39 [rbm]

* rbm ponders why package require doesn't work from his .adp's

01:04:48 [davb]

no error message about a missing variable?

01:05:14 [jim]

hmm, ok...

01:06:09 [rbm]

can't find package TGDChart

01:06:09 [rbm]

while executing

01:06:09 [rbm]

"package require TGDChart"

01:06:09 [rbm]

invoked from within

01:06:31 [davb]

where did you put the package?

01:06:53 [rbm]

$AOLSERVER/lib

01:07:36 [davb]

I think it actually looks in the tcl package directory /usr/lib/tcl or something

01:08:01 [rbm]

davb: It looks in $tcl_pkgPath/$tcl_library

01:08:30 [davb]

I wish I could remember how I got it to work.

01:11:42 [rbm]

* rbm tries something else

01:12:11 [jim]

rbm: I'm trying to test my site; could you try registering?

01:12:39 [davb]

hey: "I've been working on a WebDAV module for AOLserver all night long."

01:14:04 [rbm]

davb: who's that?

01:14:04 [paje]

rumour has it that is not true

01:14:29 [davb]

Dossy, one of the people still hanging around on the aolserver list.

01:16:03 [davb]

* davb emails

01:22:43 [vinod]

vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

01:23:54 [davb]

darn

01:24:07 [davb]

emacs/gdb isn't finding the source files anymore...

01:25:09 [jim]

davb: must compile each .c file with -g

01:25:53 [davb]

ah. it "just worked" with aolserver 3.3

01:26:37 [davb]

darn gvd debian pacakge is broken

01:31:00 [jim]

davb: if the sources are moved around after compiling against them with -g, the symbols that get added to the binary no longer refer to the right dir tree

01:31:13 [davb]

ddd is useless, it displays white text on a white background

01:31:48 [jim]

davb: if you strip the binary, that gets rid of everything that -g put there plus some

01:32:02 [davb]

ok.

01:32:34 [jim]

davb: finally, if you subsequently compile without -g, then the binary won't refer to any source

01:32:37 [markd2]

at aol we ran aolserver -g

01:32:46 [markd2]

makes diagnosing production problems much much easier

01:32:49 [davb]

brb

01:33:18 [jim]

markd2: so then the source was locked into a certain relative dir tree position?

01:33:35 [markd2]

nah

01:33:46 [markd2]

if we needed source, we could load it then symlink as necessary

01:33:53 [markd2]

or get a corefile from the prod machine and look at it on a dev machine

01:33:53 [jim]

ahh

01:34:05 [markd2]

sometimes just the stack trace was necessary

01:34:39 [jim]

did you guys use plain gdb? another debugger? front ends?

01:34:46 [markd2]

depends on the platform

01:34:48 [markd2]

usually gdb

01:34:51 [markd2]

'wildebeest' for hp-ux

01:35:08 [markd2]

dbx was preferred on irix, and digital unix had 'ladebug', which was wonderful for threaded apps

01:35:21 [jim]

cute

01:37:19 [jim]

markd2: could you do me a favor and try to register on 12.233.187.5:9000?

01:39:25 [rbm]

jim: request error on http://12.233.187.5:9000/register/user-new-2

01:39:46 [jim]

right as it would have sent out the email...

01:39:49 [jim]

ok

01:40:50 [davb]

is that an option I have to set in the makefile?

01:41:59 [jim]

yeah... and it might already be set, but check... usually, you would see something like CFLAGS = "-g -I/some/where -I. -O" or the like

01:42:09 [davb]

ok

01:42:48 [jim]

and if CFLAGS doesnt' have -g, you would add it... also, while compiling, make sure each line that compiles the file has the -g

01:43:04 [davb]

ok.

01:43:27 [markd2]

jim: sure

01:43:59 [jim]

(that would be a good acceptance test for "adding debug support to aolserver")

01:44:16 [markd2]

request error

01:44:44 [jim]

one sec, still determining problem

01:45:08 [rbm]

* rbm goes home

01:50:16 [davb]

hmmm gbd with aolserver only works with an -x gdbinitfile command line.

01:54:53 [jim]

thought so. qmail error.

02:02:26 [jim]

where does acs store a user's email addr?

02:03:55 [davb]

parties?

02:04:14 [davb]

hmmm.

02:05:34 [davb]

darn, gvd is not picking up ld_library_path from the environment

02:06:48 [davb]

nm,

02:07:05 [jim]

gotta upcase the var name

02:07:16 [jim]

ahh

02:07:19 [jim]

parties

02:07:56 [davb]

right, i needed a set environment in gdb

02:10:01 [davb]

oops, crashed the debugger

02:10:22 [jim]

congratulations :) you just learned C :)

02:10:32 [davb]

heh

02:13:21 [rbm]

gvd is written in Ada

02:13:38 [rbm]

but it uses gtk, which is C

02:15:16 [davb]

now its running.

02:19:09 [jim]

ok, anyone got a different email address to try registering again?

02:19:40 [jim]

deleting a user from the database would be a major pain atm

02:20:34 [davb]

I will.

02:20:52 [jim]

cool :) thanks

02:21:27 [davb]

it says email sent

02:21:34 [jim]

nice :)

02:21:39 [jim]

check your email :)

02:21:41 [davb]

email received

02:21:56 [jim]

nice :)

02:22:16 [davb]

uhoh

02:22:39 [davb]

I went to the link, and clicked continue. entered my password and clicked login and got this error:

02:22:41 [davb]

Problem with login

02:22:41 [davb]

There was a problem authenticating the account: 3138. Most likely, the database contains users with no user_state

02:22:54 [davb]

URL : http://12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com:9000/register/user-login

02:22:56 [jim]

hmm...

02:23:22 [davb]

oh, see how the host name changed?

02:23:48 [davb]

apparently my state has not been updated.

02:25:32 [jim]

might have to build the site again from scratch... can't right now; gotta go

02:25:51 [jim]

thank you all for your help

02:26:12 [davb]

np

02:35:06 [davb]

this is really frustrating. apparently everyone else who has had success with dotlrn does not have the aolserver problem I have.

02:36:38 [davb]

* davb tests the only unknown nsxml with xslt support

02:48:36 [davb]

nope, that didn't help.

03:02:58 [davb]

I have pinpointed the error somewhat. it happens during the parsing of an adp file.

03:10:50 [davb]

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03:54:34 [markd2]

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04:55:38 [skel]

:)

04:55:40 [skel]

hello

04:56:31 [rbm]

hello

04:56:32 [paje]

que tal, rbm

04:56:41 [rbm]

paje: how are you paje?

04:56:41 [paje]

rbm: i haven't a clue

04:56:51 [rbm]

paje: slashdot

04:56:53 [paje]

Slashdot - Updated 2002-04-02 04:21:55 | Distributed Computing Program Hidden in Kazaa | Konqueror's Javascript Continues To Improve | April Fools Wrap Up | Blizzard removes Orcs from Warcraft III

04:57:16 [skel]

could anyone enlighten me on how to use postgresql to execute multiple 'where' statements in a select?

04:57:50 [skel]

example. select field from table where table1 = this and table2 = this

04:58:15 [skel]

or is that possible?

04:59:14 [skel]

wait, I mean select field from table where field1 = this and field2 = this

04:59:22 [skel]

not tables..

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07:25:13 [rbm]

buenas notches para todos

12:08:28 [k2pts]

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13:44:24 [davb]

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/webservices/2002/04/01/outlining.html

13:44:24 [oacs-chump]

D: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/webservices/2002/04/01/outlining.html from davb

13:44:32 [davb]

D:|Jon Udell on Instant Outlining

13:44:32 [oacs-chump]

titled item D

13:45:24 [davb]

D: Instant Outlining is subscribing to an outline file maintained by another person. I am not sure yet how notification of changes occurs, or where old items fall off to.

13:45:24 [oacs-chump]

commented item D

13:54:43 [davb]

D: http://radio.outliners.com/beta

13:54:43 [oacs-chump]

commented item D

13:55:07 [davb]

D: it decides if an outline is updated by comparing the size. Why not the last-modified header? I have no clue, that makes much more sense.

13:55:07 [oacs-chump]

commented item D

13:55:55 [davb]

D: it would be interesting to have OpenACS output outlines of the site or user activities as outlines in OPML format

13:55:56 [oacs-chump]

commented item D

13:56:22 [davb]

D: except we don't have anything remotely approaching a user interface that would work for this.

13:56:22 [oacs-chump]

commented item D

13:56:37 [davb]

D: maybe a little Mozilla XUL thing would work.

13:56:38 [oacs-chump]

commented item D

14:26:36 [davb]

hmmmm, I can't get the datamodel to load at all with postgresql 7.2

14:28:30 [markd2]

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14:30:06 [davb]

weird, there is nothing in the databse at all...

14:32:46 [markd2]

my god.... it's full of cars...

14:32:57 [davb]

* davb misses the reference

14:33:11 [davb]

actually I was pointing at the nonexistent old pgsql install dir.

14:33:18 [davb]

now its not sourcing the tcl files.

14:35:37 [markd2]

ever seen the 2001 movie?

14:35:46 [davb]

ah.

14:37:21 [davb]

oops, I deleted the database and forgot to recreate it.

14:37:41 [davb]

ah, there it goes.

14:38:01 [davb]

I am trying to recreate my crashing aolserver with edit-this-page 2.0 on postgresql.

14:41:43 [davb]

* davb notes that the data model runs about twice as fast on postgresql rather than oracle

14:43:51 [davb]

yeah, it crashes.

14:43:56 [davb]

now to figure out why.

14:44:37 [davb]

ok, it is at the exact same line, but the parameters have different values

14:48:53 [davb]

ok weird.

14:49:12 [davb]

it seems to be a problem with ns_log

14:49:41 [davb]

the request processor is writing to the log and something in running a regex on the contents of the string

15:01:04 [davb]

hmmm, the dotlrn one is parsing an adp file, and is re'ing a <td> tag

15:01:41 [davb]

doesn't seem like the kind of thing that crashes a program

15:04:10 [markd2]

yeah

15:04:16 [markd2]

crashes, as in physically nuking the server?

15:04:38 [davb]

yes. it segfaults, and all nsd processes stop

15:05:48 [davb]

I notice that the memory address for the re contains the same thing on both crashes.

15:07:15 [davb]

can I save a backtrace from gdb?

15:07:45 [markd2]

cut-n-paste to another file :-)

15:08:08 [davb]

ok :)

15:08:15 [davb]

should have run it in emacs.

15:08:51 [markd2]

everything is better run in emacs

15:09:08 [davb]

I like this, C programming and debugging: trial by fire

15:09:29 [davb]

aigh, bt full is very descriptive

15:14:31 [markd2]

hmm.. 've never used bt full. just bt / where

15:15:39 [davb]

you don't want to. I got 10 pages of stuff just for the first command :)

15:16:11 [markd2]

heh

15:20:40 [markd2]

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15:53:11 [davb]

http://backend.userland.com/publishSubscribeWalkthrough

15:53:11 [oacs-chump]

E: http://backend.userland.com/publishSubscribeWalkthrough from davb

15:53:31 [Jackal]

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15:53:49 [Jackal]

hello all

15:54:00 [Jackal]

can someone help me to get nsxml installed?

15:54:05 [davb]

hi, sure

15:54:20 [Jackal]

i'm running rh 6.2

15:54:49 [davb]

ok. what have you done so far?

15:55:26 [Jackal]

i;ve downloaded nsxml

15:55:37 [Jackal]

put in next to my aolserver folder

15:55:41 [Jackal]

tried a make

15:55:49 [Jackal]

get nasty errors

15:55:55 [Jackal]

[root@lfee nsxml]# make

15:56:24 [Jackal]

hmm. won't let me paste a big chunk

15:56:38 [Jackal]

gcc -g -I../aolserver/include -D_REENTRANT -pipe -fPIC -Wall -Wno-unused -DHAVE_CMMSG=1 -DUSE_FIONREAD=1 -DHAVE_COND_EINTR=1 -c -o ns_xml.o ns_xml.c

15:56:43 [davb]

nsxml should be at the same level at the other ns modules, nscache, nerewrite etc...

15:56:52 [Jackal]

ns_xml.c:40: libxml/parser.h: No such file or directory

15:57:00 [davb]

do you have libxml2-devel installed?

15:57:41 [Jackal]

I do but its a XImian version

15:57:48 [Jackal]

same for libxml

15:58:05 [davb]

should be ok.

15:58:10 [Jackal]

ok good

15:58:22 [Jackal]

so I have a nsxml folder afer untarring

15:58:24 [davb]

but it should be able to find it.

15:58:30 [Jackal]

where should I put this?

15:58:50 [davb]

in the aolserver source tree at the same level as aolserver/nscache/nsrewrute etc...

15:59:53 [Jackal]

ok let me look

16:00:18 [Jackal]

actually I think that I did the binary aD installation

16:00:26 [Jackal]

I need to recompile?

16:00:33 [Jackal]

ummm compile?

16:00:46 [davb]

you need the aolserver source to compile nsxml also.

16:01:15 [Jackal]

ok. thanks. I'll try that out.

16:01:38 [Jackal]

do you generally use the aolserver.com version or some other variation?

16:02:13 [davb]

nsxml?

16:02:19 [davb]

get it at acs-misc.sourceforge.ent

16:02:22 [davb]

get it at acs-misc.sourceforge.net

16:02:48 [Jackal]

no - i mean do you download the aolserver from aolserver.com or use other versions like the openacs or aD dists?

16:03:02 [davb]

or dl a binary of the whole thing at: http://uptime.openacs.org/aolserver-openacs/ (no guarantees :)

16:03:13 [davb]

I use aolserver 3.3+ad13 mostly.

16:03:27 [davb]

frm arsdigita.com, but 3.4.2 should also work.

16:05:11 [Jackal]

ok - i think I'll stick with aD

16:05:23 [Jackal]

do the recent ones include nsxml?

16:05:36 [davb]

no.

16:06:02 [davb]

they also don't inlcude a postgresql driver.

16:06:55 [davb]

also this source includes everything you need: http://uptime.openacs.org/aolserver-openacs/aolserver3.4.2-oacs1-src.tar.gz

16:07:00 [davb]

I installed it yesterday.

16:07:02 [Jackal]

actually i'm still using oracle | acs

16:07:06 [davb]

ah.

16:07:26 [davb]

you might want to stick with aD's version then.

16:07:31 [Jackal]

I'm a bit worried about making the transition.

16:07:37 [Jackal]

but it is inevitable

16:08:07 [davb]

yes. well, ybos.net has an updated ACS Tcl that is closer to the aD version.

16:08:16 [Jackal]

cool

16:08:45 [Jackal]

where can I get this?

16:10:36 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

16:15:10 [markd2]

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16:17:03 [davb]

which this?

16:18:05 [Jackal]

ybos.net version of ACS Tcl

16:18:19 [Jackal]

not entirely clear on ybos.net site

16:19:07 [davb]

here it is: http://developer.ybos.net/

16:19:17 [Jackal]

ok cool thanks alot

16:19:52 [davb]

np.

16:20:00 [davb]

* davb hopes talli doesn't find out

16:20:24 [davb]

:)

16:20:33 [Jackal]

:)

16:22:58 [jkhong]

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16:25:31 [davb]

bbl

16:25:34 [davb]

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16:39:50 [vinod]

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16:49:58 [jkhong]

Hi everyone! Has anyone found a good ide that has strong support for tcl and sql (and stuff for OpenACS devel?)

16:50:55 [vinod]

hi jkhong

16:50:57 [rbm]

emacs?

16:50:59 [vinod]

i use emacs

16:50:59 [rbm]

vinod!

16:51:06 [vinod]

hey rbm!

16:51:31 [jkhong]

hi vinod, rbm! Is emacs seriously THAT good?

16:51:38 [rbm]

emacs is great.

16:51:53 [jkhong]

I've managed to escape learning emacs for years... Don't know if I can face it now.

16:51:59 [vinod]

haha

16:52:44 [vinod]

i've spent most of my life on macintoshes, so the power of emacs was a siren song for me :-)

16:54:01 [vinod]

but seriously, it does everything i need for the level of openacs dev that i do

16:54:06 [jkhong]

I've tried Komodo -- nice syntax highlighting, MS-Word -like underlining of syntax errors for tcl, etc. But SLOW... and easier to learn than emacs ;)

16:55:58 [rbm]

One thing I'd like emacs to do (and it possibly does, but I don't know how to set it) is command completion.

16:56:45 [vinod]

rbm: yeah, that would be nice

16:57:38 [jkhong]

komodo does it, though I don't find it very useful. Maybe coz it takes longer for it to suggest completion than it does for me to type it in.

16:57:58 [jkhong]

(Looking at emacs websites now -- scary thought! :)

16:59:52 [vinod]

emacs does syntax highlighting (although it gets disabled in plgpsql since PG stored procs are within single quotes)

17:00:17 [vinod]

it doesn't do underlining/highlighting of syntax errors

17:01:32 [jkhong]

I found a gui-xemacs at http://www.cs.indiana.edu/elisp/gui-xemacs/ !! It's still nothing near a cozy, eye-candy ide though.

17:03:08 [jkhong]

The underlining of syntax errors is good for spotting typos without having to run the script. *VERY* helpful when I was learning tcl.

17:10:54 [markd2]

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17:12:05 [davb]

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17:17:30 [Jackal]

hello! I'm trying to install acs with modules...

17:17:40 [Jackal]

can somebody answer some questions?

17:18:52 [rbm]

acs or openacs?

17:19:17 [Jackal]

actually sorry - I meant to say aolserver

17:19:35 [Jackal]

I am trying to compile aolserver with modules

17:19:39 [jkhong]

What's the problem you're facing?

17:19:45 [Jackal]

I downloaded the src from aolserver.com

17:19:45 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

17:20:13 [Jackal]

I downloaded modules from arsdigita.com (XML modules, cache, oracle driver)

17:20:31 [Jackal]

I save them in the aolserver source folder

17:20:45 [Jackal]

I made wach one with "make"

17:20:54 [Jackal]

*each

17:21:05 [Jackal]

and a then made aolserver and make install

17:21:19 [Jackal]

after adding the modules in the makefile.

17:21:25 [Jackal]

am I doing something wrong?

17:21:32 [davb]

I just do make install from each module directory.

17:21:53 [davb]

don't use nsxml from aD.com

17:21:57 [davb]

it is way old.

17:22:08 [Jackal]

before or after I make aolserver?

17:22:16 [Jackal]

oh ok

17:22:18 [davb]

after.

17:22:29 [davb]

make install for aolserver will put it in /usr/local/aolserver

17:22:38 [davb]

then make install for each module copies it to /usr/local/aolserver/bin

17:22:47 [davb]

unless you specify another target

17:23:08 [Jackal]

yeah - ichanged the target

17:24:04 [Jackal]

gcc -I..//include -D_REENTRANT=1 -DNDEBUG=1 -g -fPIC -Wall -Wno-unused -mcpu=i686 -DHAVE_CMMSG=1 -DUSE_FIONREAD=1 -DHAVE_COND_EINTR=1 -c -o ns_xml.o ns_xml.c

17:24:12 [Jackal]

ns_xml.c:40: libxml/parser.h: No such file or directory

17:24:28 [Jackal]

thats what I get when I try the nsxml from xmlsoft.org

17:24:30 [davb]

should be libxml2?

17:24:45 [davb]

make sure you have libxml2 not libxml

17:24:52 [vinod]

the nsxml makefile is very distro specific...

17:25:01 [davb]

hi vinod.

17:25:02 [Jackal]

oic

17:25:07 [vinod]

hey davb

17:25:10 [vinod]

another option would be to use the ready-made distro that Mat Kovach built

17:25:20 [davb]

that is what I said :)

17:25:27 [davb]

very handy.

17:25:48 [vinod]

http://uptime.openacs.org/aolserver-openacs/

17:25:48 [oacs-chump]

F: http://uptime.openacs.org/aolserver-openacs/ from vinod

17:25:51 [Jackal]

I'm trying to actually come to an understanfing of how to get aolserver working with modules.

17:26:10 [vinod]

F:| Mat's awesome AOLServer distro specifically for OpenACS4

17:26:10 [oacs-chump]

titled item F

17:26:19 [Jackal]

directions on aolserver.com suck

17:26:26 [vinod]

Jackal: that's a good plan too

17:26:31 [rbm]

I've been wanting to autoconf'ize AOLserver for the longest time

17:26:42 [vinod]

do the other modules compile (besides nsxml)?

17:26:59 [Jackal]

Makefile for nsxml says libxml2 not lbxml

17:27:05 [rbm]

install libxml2

17:27:34 [Jackal]

yeah oracle-driver, permissions, cache and maybe one of the virtual hosting modules

17:28:01 [Jackal]

I also want to know that I can reproduce this when I need another module

17:28:46 [vinod]

ok. then you need 2 steps. 1) install libxml2 (test this by doing 'xml2 --version') -should get 2.4.16 or something

17:28:51 [Jackal]

ns_xml.c says include <libxml/parser.h> should I have to edit?

17:29:30 [Jackal]

[root@lfee /tmp]# rpm -qa | grep libxml

17:29:38 [Jackal]

libxml10-1.0.0-2

17:29:46 [Jackal]

libxml2-2.4.12-1

17:29:52 [Jackal]

libxml-devel-1.8.15-ximian.2

17:29:53 [davb]

most modules will work fine. nsxml needs a fancier makefile.

17:30:01 [Jackal]

libxml-1.8.15-ximian.2

17:30:19 [davb]

do you have libxml2-devel?

17:30:21 [vinod]

can you do 'xml2-config --version'?

17:30:42 [rbm]

* rbm hugs Debian

17:30:50 [Jackal]

yeah libxml-devel-1.8.15-ximian.2

17:31:02 [rbm]

Jackal: that's libxml1 not libxml2

17:31:07 [Jackal]

can;t do libxml-devel-1.8.15-ximian.2

17:31:29 [Jackal]

not sure i understance rbm

17:32:01 [davb]

download the libxml2-devel rpm and install it. that is what is missing. there are two versions of libxml 1 and 2. nsxml only works with 2.

17:32:03 [Jackal]

do you mean I should have libxml2-devel instead of libxml-devel

17:32:03 [rbm]

Jackal: "libxml2" == libxml version 2.x. "libxml1" == libxml version 1.x. You have the -devel for version 1.x, you need the -devel for 2.x

17:32:27 [Jackal]

ok - i understand

17:32:35 [Jackal]

man I hate packages

17:32:45 [rbm]

Packages are great. It's RPM that suck.

17:32:53 [vinod]

apt-get install libxml2-dev :-)

17:32:56 [rbm]

s/suck/sucks/

17:33:00 [Jackal]

debian bastards

17:33:02 [Jackal]

:)

17:33:06 [vinod]

haha

17:33:26 [rbm]

Jackal: There's apt for RPM you know.

17:33:39 [rbm]

I've used it in several RH/Mandrake boxen.

17:33:56 [Jackal]

rbm: fascinating

17:34:06 [Jackal]

rbm: where can I get that?

17:34:06 [paje]

i guess that is not true

17:34:15 [Jackal]

I'm on RH

17:34:53 [rbm]

http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/

17:34:53 [oacs-chump]

G: http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/ from rbm

17:34:57 [rbm]

G:| APT for RPMs

17:34:57 [oacs-chump]

titled item G

17:35:26 [Jackal]

cool thanks/ does that work well?

17:35:52 [rbm]

apt can't do magic and overcome RPM's limitations and suckiness, but it helps a lot.

17:36:33 [Jackal]

ic

17:36:42 [Jackal]

thanks

17:36:44 [vinod]

once you get libxml2-dev installed, then you need to edit the Makefile. Add the following lines near the bottom:

17:36:55 [vinod]

CFLAGS = $(shell xml2-config --cflags)

17:37:03 [vinod]

MODLIBS = $(shell xml2-config --libs)

17:37:15 [Jackal]

ok thanks

17:37:26 [vinod]

that will set the compiler flags and libs to be appropriate for your distro

17:37:28 [vinod]

sure, np

17:37:46 [rbm]

* rbm goes to work

17:40:06 [Jackal]

ns_xml.c:38: ns.h: No such file or directory

17:40:16 [Jackal]

after installing libxml2-devel

17:41:34 [vinod]

is nsxml underneath the aolserver directory?

17:41:54 [vinod]

it's not finding ns.h which should be in the aolserver sources

17:41:59 [Jackal]

yes in the source aolserver directory

17:42:08 [Jackal]

i haven't installed aolserver yet

17:42:15 [Jackal]

should I have?

17:42:19 [Jackal]

or just make?

17:42:45 [vinod]

you just need the headers to be there

17:42:48 [davb]

it can't find the source for aolserver.

17:43:03 [vinod]

what is the gcc command that it is trying?

17:43:25 [davb]

the easiest way is to put nsxml at the same level in the aolserver source tree as aolserver/nscache/nsrewrite,etc..

17:44:35 [Jackal]

cc -I/usr/include/libxml2/libxml -I/usr/include/libxml2 -c -o ns_xml.o ns_xml.c

17:44:40 [Jackal]

*gcc

17:45:06 [vinod]

mine looks like this:

17:45:08 [vinod]

gcc -I/usr/include/libxml2/libxml -I/usr/include/libxml2 -I../aolserver/include -D_REENTRANT=1 -DNDEBUG=1 -g -fPIC -Wall -Wno-unused -mcpu=ppc -DHAVE_CMMSG=1 -DUSE_FIONREAD=1 -DHAVE_COND_EINTR=1 -c -o ns_xml.o ns_xml.c

17:45:35 [Jackal]

wow

17:45:36 [vinod]

you're missing the -I../aolserver/include (plus alot of other stuff)

17:46:10 [Jackal]

i don't think that I messed with the Makefile THAT much.

17:46:19 [vinod]

the last line in my Makefile says:

17:46:28 [vinod]

include $(NSHOME)/include/Makefile.module

17:46:45 [vinod]

that's where most of this stuff comes from (NSHOME is set near the top of the makefile)

17:48:08 [Jackal]

hmm. I'm going to redownload nsxml

17:51:12 [Jackal]

same error

17:51:29 [rbm]

Jackal: You should use the 3.3ad13 tree.

17:51:30 [Jackal]

vinod - did you change your makefile alot?

17:51:35 [rbm]

s/tree/release/

17:51:53 [vinod]

nope. just the change that i mentioned above (adding CFLAGS and MODLIBS)

17:52:21 [davb]

WTF: CrashCmd

17:52:21 [oacs-chump]

Label WTF not found.

17:52:34 [davb]

"The name of a Tcl function which, when executed, will crash the server.

17:52:46 [markd2]

cool!

17:52:48 [davb]

hmmm... maybe my aolserver is calling this command?

17:52:58 [davb]

from: The name of a Tcl function which, when executed, will crash the server.

17:53:01 [davb]

argh

17:53:04 [markd2]

rename CrashCmd ns_db gethandle

17:53:14 [davb]

from: http://tcl.activestate.com/man/aolserver3.0/con-ch3.htm

17:53:57 [davb]

markd2: didn't they have that option in aolserver 2?

17:55:17 [vinod]

Jackal: from with the nsxml dir, do: "ls -l ../aolserver/include/Makefile.global"

17:56:32 [markd2]

* NsTclCrashCmd --

17:56:32 [markd2]

*

17:56:32 [markd2]

* Crash the server to test exception handling.

17:56:32 [davb]

which nsxml are you compiling?

17:56:50 [Jackal]

that doesn't work because nsxml is inside aolserver dir

17:56:58 [vinod]

ahhhhh

17:57:11 [Jackal]

got the nsxml from http://acs-misc.sourceforge.net/nsxml.html

17:57:14 [davb]

ok

17:57:31 [davb]

markd2: I don't need no stinkin' command to crash my aolserver!

17:57:35 [vinod]

nsxml should be next to the aolserver source (not inside it, like i said) .... sorry (always listen to davb, not me)

17:57:48 [Jackal]

and in my Makefile I changed NSHOME to NSHOME = ../

17:57:54 [Jackal]

:)

17:57:57 [Jackal]

ok

17:58:46 [davb]

I still can't believe I am segfaulting aolserver while it is parsing an adp file.

17:58:49 [rbm]

Somebody using Red Hat should just build 3.3ad13 RPMs

17:59:54 [Jackal]

is this true? why can't the src of aolserver work?

18:00:15 [rbm]

ad13 has internationalization fixes

18:01:48 [hazmat]

hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs

18:01:51 [Jackal]

sigh

18:02:49 [Jackal]

is that so?

18:03:03 [davb]

ok, my aolserver is crashing in the tcl part of the code. I wonder if I have some other tcl installed that is screwing it up

18:03:08 [Jackal]

this is really frustrating

18:03:31 [davb]

nsxml should build if you move it up one level. then you should be in business.

18:04:04 [davb]

hey!

18:04:15 [Jackal]

not in business

18:04:15 [davb]

tcl 8.3 includes TclSOAP and XMLRPC

18:04:16 [rbm]

Jackal: What red hat are you on?

18:04:20 [Jackal]

6.2

18:04:29 [davb]

6.2 is an evil pain in the ass to get working with libxml2

18:04:32 [rbm]

Oh crap, that's older than my grandma

18:04:36 [Jackal]

ns_xml.c:38: ns.h: No such file or directory

18:04:38 [Jackal]

lol

18:05:16 [davb]

but that is not the problem you are having.

18:05:17 [Jackal]

7.x is a pain to get working with Oracle

18:05:26 [davb]

what is nshome set to in the nsxml Makefile?

18:05:42 [Jackal]

NSHOME = ../aolserver-3.4.2

18:05:59 [davb]

you are too high.

18:06:09 [Jackal]

am I ;)

18:06:11 [davb]

in the tree.

18:06:44 [davb]

find the Makefile.global file in the aolserver source tree.

18:06:51 [davb]

point NSHOME at that directory.

18:06:56 [Jackal]

aolserver-3.4.2 and nsxml are in the same dir

18:07:29 [davb]

anyway, if TclSOAP is part of Tcl now, it might be possible to trick it into working in aolserver., but you still need expat and TclDOM.

18:07:53 [vinod]

Jackal: is there a aolserver dir underneath aolserver-3.4.2?

18:08:05 [davb]

hey nsfts is in tcl8.3 also.

18:08:10 [Jackal]

vinod : no

18:08:18 [davb]

interesting. the debian packager is stuffing everything in there.

18:08:41 [rbm]

Jackal: Do you want a working 3.3ad13 tarball?

18:09:04 [rbm]

nsfts? Dan's module?

18:09:05 [Jackal]

well - i'd like to try getting the vanilla intallation working

18:09:18 [davb]

rbm: yeah.

18:09:25 [rbm]

Jackal: have you compiled stuff before?

18:09:28 [davb]

well the version that works with plain tcl anyway.

18:09:30 [Jackal]

yes

18:09:33 [davb]

you are very close.

18:09:42 [davb]

can you find Makefile.global?

18:09:52 [Jackal]

yes its in include

18:10:07 [davb]

hmmm.

18:10:26 [davb]

what is in your aolserver3.4.2 directory?

18:10:51 [Jackal]

aolserver-3.4.2 is just the untarred src

18:11:02 [davb]

and there is no aolserver directory under that?

18:11:24 [Jackal]

no

18:11:46 [davb]

weird.

18:12:12 [Jackal]

why is that wierd?

18:12:43 [davb]

there should be an aolserver directory with the aolserver source in it, along with a directory for every ns* module

18:12:53 [vinod]

the tarballs that i have has aolserver-3.x/aolserver/include/Makefile.global

18:13:12 [Jackal]

aolserver-3.4.2 IS the source

18:14:32 [Jackal]

all I did was untar the aolserver src. - rename it to aolserver-3.4.2 and move it to /home/nsadmin

18:14:56 [Jackal]

i don't want to overwrite my work ( sans xml) installation of aolserver

18:15:04 [davb]

right.

18:15:07 [Jackal]

which was a binary installation

18:15:24 [vinod]

ok, so /home/nsadmin/aolserver-3.4.2/include/Makefile.global exists

18:15:47 [Jackal]

yep

18:15:50 [vinod]

point NSHOME to /home/nsadmin/aolserver-3.4.2

18:16:39 [Jackal]

same error

18:18:58 [Jackal]

ns_xml.c:40: libxml/parser.h: No such file or directory

18:19:06 [vinod]

oh - that error

18:19:13 [vinod]

the ns.h error is gone though, right?

18:19:31 [Jackal]

looks like it

18:19:59 [vinod]

ok, good

18:20:10 [vinod]

now we need to get nsxml to find libxml2-devel

18:20:23 [vinod]

at the shell, type this: xml2-config --version

18:20:36 [Jackal]

2.4.12

18:20:48 [vinod]

perfect

18:21:07 [vinod]

ok add these 2 lines just before the "include" line at the bottom of the makefile

18:21:26 [vinod]

MODLIBS = $(shell xml2-config --libs)

18:21:26 [vinod]

CFLAGS = $(shell xml2-config --cflags)

18:21:28 [Jackal]

CFLAGS?

18:21:43 [Jackal]

added them before but AFTER include

18:21:46 [vinod]

yup

18:22:05 [Jackal]

yaay!

18:22:11 [davb]

tada.

18:22:14 [Jackal]

like magic - thank you

18:22:23 [davb]

vinod, does that xml2-config work on all platforms?

18:22:29 [Jackal]

i knew it was something stupid

18:23:06 [vinod]

i think so. it works on BSD, Linux

18:23:13 [davb]

cool.

18:23:15 [Jackal]

very good to know

18:23:33 [davb]

I am working on ns_xml 2.0, so I will make sure that gets in the makefile.

18:23:48 [Jackal]

cool

18:23:48 [vinod]

there's a similar utility for postgres: pg-config

18:23:56 [davb]

I didn't write it, I am just looking at it.

18:24:07 [vinod]

also xslt-config :-) if you want to add xslt support to nsxml

18:24:21 [davb]

yeah, I did that. works great!

18:25:11 [davb]

rbm: can you send me a working 3.3+ad13 tarball? Maybe I can track down this crashing bug I am having.

18:25:33 [davb]

hmmm... I wonder if it is something wacky in the kernel...

18:25:41 [vinod]

when is it crashing?

18:26:08 [rbm]

davb: just sources or binaries too?

18:27:36 [markd2]

anyone know off-hand which imagemagick utility shows the width and height of a jpeg?

18:27:49 [rbm]

oh I know that one... identify

18:27:52 [Jackal]

so would this be the new line to get xslt working?

18:27:52 [rbm]

I think

18:28:00 [Jackal]

MODLIBS = $(shell xml2-config --libs) $(shell xslt-config --libs)

18:28:01 [markd2]

sweet. thanks

18:28:18 [vinod]

Jackal: you don't need the xml2-config part

18:28:36 [vinod]

xslt-config will give you the proper libs for xml and xslt

18:28:44 [Jackal]

ic - make sense

18:28:58 [Jackal]

dude where the hell do you learn this?

18:29:21 [vinod]

i implanted an electrode in markd2's brain to transfer all his knowledge to me

18:29:35 [Jackal]

lol

18:29:37 [markd2]

* markd2 ooooms

18:29:39 [vinod]

thing is - it comes over on dialup 56Kbps, so it's taking a while

18:29:47 [rbm]

vinod: get me a copy will ya?

18:29:49 [markd2]

hey! I've got isdn now

18:29:54 [markd2]

I figured the upload would go a little better

18:29:59 [markd2]

maybe it's *cough* problems on the receiving end

18:30:07 [vinod]

p2p markd2

18:30:09 [vinod]

haha

18:30:33 [rbm]

* rbm puts markd2's brain in morpheus

18:31:06 [Jackal]

xslt-config doesn' work for me - is that another lib I need to download?

18:31:24 [vinod]

yeah - avail at xmlsoft.org (should be rpms somewhere)

18:31:45 [Jackal]

libxslt-1.0.15-1.i386.rpm ?

18:32:17 [vinod]

that should be it - you need the devel package too

18:32:23 [Jackal]

oh ok

18:33:24 [vinod]

plus nsxml defines a separate CFLAG in order to compile xslt support (-DDO_XSLT), so you need to add that to CFLAGS:

18:33:44 [vinod]

CFLAGS += -DDO_XSLT

18:33:50 [davb]

rbm: nm. I have a working 3.3+ad13 on my web server.

18:33:54 [davb]

I can just use that.

18:34:10 [davb]

to lunch!

18:34:16 [Jackal]

damn - seriously is there any documentation anywhere?

18:34:54 [rbm]

Jackal: there are lots of documentation in several places all over the web

18:35:05 [Jackal]

;)

18:35:07 [Jackal]

thanks

18:39:42 [Jackal]

CFLAGS = $(shell xml2-config --cflags)

18:39:45 [Jackal]

MODLIBS = $(shell xslt-config --libs)

18:39:47 [Jackal]

CFLAGS += -DDO_XSLT

18:39:49 [Jackal]

CFLAGS = $(shell xml2-config --cflags)

18:39:50 [Jackal]

so is this right?

18:40:45 [davb]

no,

18:40:46 [davb]

:)

18:40:51 [Jackal]

:(

18:40:56 [davb]

very close.

18:41:14 [Jackal]

besides the extra CFLAGS at the bottom?

18:41:14 [davb]

all the CFLAGS have to be on one line.

18:41:26 [Jackal]

oh

18:41:29 [davb]

put the CFLAGS += -DDO_XSLT last.

18:41:41 [davb]

every time you do CFLAGS = you erase the previous one.

18:41:51 [davb]

the += adds it to the end.

18:41:54 [Jackal]

CFLAGS = $(shell xml2-config --cflags)

18:42:03 [Jackal]

MODLIBS = $(shell xslt-config --libs)

18:42:09 [Jackal]

CFLAGS += -DDO_XSLT

18:42:28 [Jackal]

yeah - that happened when I was trying to paste

18:42:42 [Jackal]

using mozzilla irc chat - not so great

18:43:01 [davb]

you need CFLAGS = $(shell xslt-config --cflags) I think

18:43:22 [davb]

or comment out the -DDO_XSLT line

18:43:24 [Jackal]

instead of the xml-config right?

18:43:57 [rbm]

AAAGH!

18:44:06 [rbm]

Still can't get package require to work

18:44:12 [rbm]

I know I did it in the past

18:44:31 [davb]

me too.

18:45:14 [davb]

but that was before I reformatted my harddrive.

18:45:44 [davb]

I will have to look when I get home, to see if I burned that stuff to a CD

18:47:58 [jkhong]

jkhong has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

18:57:26 [davb]

darn, it still crashes

19:01:16 [vinod]

are these crashes reproducible? or random

19:01:29 [davb]

extremely reliable.

19:01:47 [davb]

its in the tcl interpreter somewhere, but only very rarely does it occur.

19:01:57 [davb]

one time is parsing an ADP file for dotLRN.

19:02:22 [davb]

the other is when I request a missing page under an ETP 2.0 package instance.

19:02:30 [davb]

one is on oracle, the other postgresql.

19:02:50 [davb]

it happens at exactly the same place with different data.

19:03:38 [vinod]

hmm.. i don't have dotLRN or ETP 2 installed to test

19:04:16 [davb]

right. those are the only times I can get it to crash. I copied over the aolserver on my web server and it did the same thing. it runs fine on the other machine.

19:04:58 [vinod]

what are the differences betw the 2 machines (kernel versions?)

19:05:24 [davb]

oh, that is right. web server is 2.2.19, this one is 2.4.18, although I think it crashed before I switched kernels.

19:06:16 [vinod]

yeah, i wouldn't know if it's a kernel issue. just throwing things out there :-)

19:06:21 [davb]

heh

19:06:35 [davb]

I am copying the files to the other machine, I will set it up there and test it.

19:18:15 [rbm]

So what registrars do you recommend? I'm looking for a better value than network solutions.

19:18:21 [rbm]

my brasileiro.net is about to expire

19:18:53 [markd2]

my cololocation place does registrations (I'm not sure who they go through)

19:20:57 [davb]

nsadmin@server1:/tmp$ tar -xzf oacs4.tar.gz

19:20:57 [davb]

nsadmin@server1:/tmp$ createdb openacs4

19:20:57 [davb]

CREATE DATABASE

19:20:59 [davb]

argh

19:21:01 [davb]

heh

19:21:16 [davb]

http://www.domainmonger.com/index.shtml this one is reportedly good.

19:21:18 [vinod]

rbm: i've been using namesdirect.com because they're assoc with mydomain.com which is where i manage my domains

19:22:54 [talilee_]

talilee_ (~talli@ip64-75-147-135.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs

19:23:09 [talilee_]

talilee_ is now known as talli

19:23:14 [talli]

hey guys

19:23:18 [vinod]

hey talli

19:23:25 [talli]

vinod, congrats on the new gig

19:23:28 [talli]

and in manhattan, too!

19:23:31 [vinod]

thanks!

19:23:37 [vinod]

yup - i'm psyched

19:23:43 [talli]

at least i know where not to go if i'm sick

19:23:57 [rbm]

domainmonger.com is $17. I like that.

19:24:19 [talli]

vinod, i guess we'll have to have more socials in nyc...

19:24:26 [vinod]

talli: appreciate that - hate it when sick people come to see me

19:24:29 [talli]

btw, how is april 23rd for a cambridge social?

19:24:47 [vinod]

looks good to me

19:25:08 [talli]

vinod, sick people and beautiful super models with no shirt on, right?

19:25:26 [davb]

I probably should ask him :)

19:25:42 [hazmat]

* hazmat peeks in

19:25:58 [vinod]

hey hazmat

19:26:14 [hazmat]

hi vinod, congrats

19:26:40 [vinod]

thanks!

19:26:51 [davb]

talli: I found someone possibly willing to work on webdav.

19:26:55 [talli]

whoa!

19:26:57 [talli]

nice!!!

19:26:59 [davb]

or help someone who is.

19:27:05 [Jackal]

hey guys - whay is nssha1

19:27:13 [Jackal]

*what

19:27:19 [Jackal]

and where can I get it?

19:27:32 [talli]

davb, who is it?

19:27:33 [rbm]

When are you going to get me a ticket to go to manhattan to participate in one of these socials?

19:27:40 [davb]

its included with aolserver 3.3+ad13

19:28:10 [davb]

or with Mat's version of 3.4.2 for openacs

19:28:21 [talli]

rbm: when you get me a ticket to brazil to participate in one of those jungle orgies

19:29:23 [rbm]

talli: But I'm just a poor student.

19:29:56 [denshi]

talli, I understand that jungle orgies have stringent screening procedures... you won't be able to get in.

19:30:09 [rbm]

talli: You're the one with all the corporate contacts and money :-)

19:30:14 [talli]

yeah, i'm "too big" as the girls say

19:30:34 [talli]

so far, corporate contacts != moeny

19:30:37 [talli]

money

19:33:56 [denshi]

you mean, (corporate contacts) : money ? moeny

19:34:38 [rbm]

talli: Oh, c'mon now. A ticket SLC -> NY costs what, $150?

19:35:07 [talli]

i mean that you should stay away from those jungle orgies, denshi. the head shrinkers aren't going to be doing you any favors, if you know what i mean.

19:35:21 [talli]

rbm: is that what it costs, really?

19:35:33 [talli]

check how much a ticket from SLC to Boston costs

19:35:48 [davb]

rbm: you have to get back too!

19:36:47 [rbm]

What's the airport in Boston?

19:36:49 [davb]

the problem is a ticket from SLC to boston is cheaper than a ticket frm albany to boston

19:36:58 [talli]

haha

19:37:01 [talli]

logan airport

19:37:03 [talli]

in boston

19:37:27 [vinod]

BOS

19:38:30 [denshi]

careful there, talli, I can defmacro your ass.

19:38:31 [davb]

argh

19:39:00 [davb]

I started an nsd on my web server without daemontools, now I don't know which one to kill!

19:39:40 [davb]

if I kill the one listed in log/nspid.servername will that get all the others attached to that server?

19:39:52 [denshi]

oh yeah, I plugged about with libical this weekend

19:40:15 [denshi]

took awhile, since there are no docs worth anything

19:40:35 [talli]

how does it look?

19:40:38 [denshi]

you done anything new on that?

19:40:49 [davb]

ok, it crashes on the other machine also.

19:40:51 [davb]

this sucks.

19:40:53 [talli]

no, been thinking, but been busy this weekend

19:41:05 [davb]

talli: can you find out what version of aolserver luke has tested etp 2.0 with?

19:41:15 [davb]

or I can email him...

19:41:37 [talli]

sure

19:41:51 [denshi]

it looks pretty good, but it's in a silly place and will be replaced as the spec evolves.

19:42:07 [talli]

what do you mean in "a silly place"?

19:42:34 [k2pts]

k2pts (~nkd@213.149.180.151) has joined #openacs

19:43:57 [talli]

luke's coming here, davb

19:44:05 [davb]

cool, thanks

19:44:41 [lukep]

lukep (~lukep@h0050da60b459.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #openacs

19:44:52 [talli]

hey lukep

19:45:03 [lukep]

howdy

19:45:30 [davb]

hi lukep. as I was saying, I have consistently crashed aolserver on two different machines with aolserver 3.3+ad13 and aolserver 3.4.2

19:46:07 [davb]

when I try to access the /etp/ or any other page that does not exist under etp 2.0

19:46:14 [denshi]

talli: silly as in it's more in the place where I'd use a scripting language. For instance, it doesn't do sockets, it expects to live in a socketed application and be handed CAP statements pulled from a socket, then it does parsing and the like.

19:46:45 [davb]

lukep: so I was wondering what version of AOLserver you used.

19:46:59 [lukep]

etp 2.0 means you're using the new code from the musea cvs?

19:47:01 [denshi]

so it gets you there, but unless you really like flex, you'll eventually write the new spec stuff in a higher language.

19:47:02 [davb]

yes.

19:47:11 [talli]

denshi, is it better to build sockets in C?

19:47:53 [talli]

what's the difference between building the sockets in C or in python and use libical to do the parsting?

19:47:55 [lukep]

we're using 3.3ad13

19:48:01 [davb]

lukep: ok. hmmmm

19:48:09 [denshi]

except on low-level issues, I'd say there's no difference. And I don't know low-level networking.

19:48:14 [davb]

well that doesn't help :) it must be something wacky in my systems.

19:48:41 [lukep]

yeah, weren't you having the same problem with aolserver crashing a while ago?

19:49:12 [davb]

yes, but I ignored it and did something else. now I can't use part of dotlrn because of it, so I was trying to diagnose it.

19:49:38 [davb]

rbm: BTW, can you send me a binary of your working 3.3+ad13?

19:50:00 [rbm]

davb: you want that now?

19:50:08 [davb]

if you have it handy :)

19:50:12 [lukep]

I can send it

19:50:27 [davb]

cool. thanks.

19:51:03 [davb]

I changed the only thing that is different about my mahcines, I turned of xslt support in nsxml. everything else should be the same as everyone else is using.

19:54:20 [davb]

brb

19:56:54 [lukep]

ok dave, i sent it

19:57:39 [k2pts]

k2pts has left #openacs

19:58:04 [davb]

bye k2pts

19:58:07 [davb]

thanks

19:59:04 [paje]

paje has quit ("regrouping; bbiab")

19:59:26 [davb]

oh yeah, we have to train paje with the answers to common questions

19:59:53 [talli]

like, "why is denshi so lame?"

20:00:01 [rbm]

I can install some info paks

20:00:40 [rbm]

argh, mozilla crashed

20:00:52 [davb]

darn, that nsd doesn't like my nssock.

20:01:07 [markd2]

well, if you'd wash them more often...

20:01:24 [davb]

heh

20:01:46 [Jackal]

[02/Apr/2002:15:41:26][958.1024][-main-] Warning: modload: failed to load '/home/nsadmin/aol342/bin/nsxml.so': '/lib/libc.so.6: version `GCC_3.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libxslt.so.1)'

20:02:01 [Jackal]

i seam to be have trouble getting that nsxml to work

20:02:20 [davb]

compile it without xslt support. unless you need it, that is.

20:02:35 [Jackal]

i do

20:02:50 [davb]

oh, looks like you need to update your OS

20:02:57 [denshi]

hey, who's the webdav victim?

20:03:06 [Jackal]

davb: really?

20:03:12 [Jackal]

davb: which part?

20:03:41 [davb]

well, updating gcc and lic.so will affect everything else in your system I suspect.

20:03:52 [davb]

argh libc6.so that is

20:04:01 [davb]

but I could be wrong.

20:04:22 [Jackal]

is nsxml that new?

20:04:56 [davb]

no, but libxslt is pretty new.

20:05:03 [Jackal]

oh ic

20:05:25 [denshi]

wait, does anything in oacs4.5 use libxslt?

20:05:32 [davb]

not yet.

20:05:33 [davb]

:)

20:05:42 [lukep]

lukep has left #openacs

20:05:45 [davb]

soon though

20:05:48 [davb]

thanks lukep!

20:05:54 [davb]

darn.

20:05:55 [Jackal]

well I think I need xslt - I want to use a xml data use it to generate some pages with formatting

20:06:00 [rbm]

galeon is pretty nice

20:06:03 [Jackal]

isn't xslt the way to go?

20:06:11 [davb]

possbily.

20:06:25 [Jackal]

what is alternative?

20:06:47 [davb]

writing some tcl procs to parse the xml and turn it into html

20:07:12 [Jackal]

hmm. but then what help is the xml module?

20:07:40 [davb]

it can parse the xml into a tree. or create xml.

20:08:07 [Jackal]

by a tree - do you meean as in (list )

20:08:31 [rbm]

bookmarklets.com

20:10:36 [davb]

no, its a tree. kinda hard to explain, I am hardly an expert programmer, I just screwed up with openacs often enough to learn some stuff.

20:11:46 [Jackal]

Ok well it sounds like I won't have to waste alot of code describing how to parse XML and get out values

20:12:04 [denshi]

denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection)

20:12:06 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has quit (Connection timed out)

20:12:58 [davb]

right. there are pretty good docs and examples for using nsxml: http://www.fifthgate.org/articles/aolserver/xml/ns_xml_doc.html

20:13:19 [Jackal]

cool - just have to recompile ( now that I know how) : thanks

20:14:08 [davb]

np

20:14:25 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

20:14:35 [rbm]

http://www.fifthgate.org/articles/aolserver/xml/ns_xml_doc.html

20:14:36 [oacs-chump]

H: http://www.fifthgate.org/articles/aolserver/xml/ns_xml_doc.html from rbm

20:14:54 [rbm]

H:|pretty good docs and examples for using nsxml

20:14:54 [oacs-chump]

titled item H

20:15:03 [rbm]

:)

20:15:05 [Jackal]

actually tcl/adp is probably more elegant that xslt anyway

20:15:28 [davb]

its is alot easier to learn

20:16:26 [talli]

Jackal, i started a thread on the oacs list called "Utility of XSLT" that was very instructive

20:16:54 [talli]

two guys whose opinions i respect ALOT, John Sequiera and Henry Minsky, said that XSLT wasn't really worth the overhead

20:17:04 [talli]

you may want to check that out. lemme get the thread

20:17:12 [Jackal]

sure

20:17:32 [Jackal]

overhead vs what?

20:17:57 [talli]

http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002RD&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS

20:17:58 [oacs-chump]

I: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002RD&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS from talli

20:18:23 [talli]

I: thread on OACS.org: "Utility of XSLT?"

20:18:23 [oacs-chump]

commented item I

20:18:28 [Jackal]

great - thanks

20:19:12 [talli]

this from John Sequiera (a hacker who we've worked with and is a GOD): " It is *so* easy to write different templates that run off the same application logic to target different devices, simply using procedural abstractions for code re-use, that I don't understand why people keep bringing this up as an argument in favor of XML.

20:19:12 [talli]

"

20:19:35 [Jackal]

modload: failed to load '/home/nsadmin/aol342/bin/nsxml.so': '/home/nsadmin/aol342/bin/nsxml.so: undefined symbol: xmlInitMemory'

20:19:56 [Jackal]

still can't get nsxml to work

20:20:56 [Jackal]

ever seen this?

20:21:53 [talli]

that thread is also a nice artifact of aD vs OACS history

20:22:52 [denshi]

boy, *there's* something worth archiving...

20:23:05 [davb]

Jackal: i haven't see that error...

20:23:12 [Jackal]

crap

20:23:12 [davb]

loosk liek it can't find the libxml2.so

20:23:25 [davb]

ack, looks like I can't type

20:23:37 [davb]

I recall having this problem on redhat also...

20:24:15 [Jackal]

saw it fine while compiling

20:24:21 [Jackal]

but now now?

20:25:05 [davb]

you need to check with ldd

20:25:11 [davb]

try ldd path to nsxml.so

20:25:21 [talli]

denshi: what? the XML/XSLT discussion or the aD vs OACS war?

20:25:25 [rbm]

If only I could understand why is it that package require is failing...

20:25:39 [talli]

what's interesting about that thread is that aD tried to friggin' hard to validate their approach

20:25:41 [Jackal]

not sure what you mean about ldd

20:25:41 [davb]

it is failing because aol doesn't care if it works or not.

20:25:43 [talli]

which never seemed to friggin work

20:25:51 [davb]

ldd will tell you where it is finding the so files.

20:26:00 [davb]

mine looks like this:

20:26:09 [davb]

dave@leo:/usr/local/aolserver$ ldd /usr/local/aolserver/bin/nsxml.so

20:26:09 [davb]

libxml2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 (0x40006000)

20:26:09 [davb]

libxslt.so.1 => /usr/lib/libxslt.so.1 (0x400a3000)

20:26:09 [davb]

libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x400cc000)

20:26:09 [davb]

libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x401e9000)

20:26:10 [davb]

libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x401f8000)

20:26:14 [davb]

sorry...

20:26:58 [davb]

I know we went over this on the bboard way back...

20:27:15 [denshi]

talli: the aD vs OACS war. I suddenly had the dark vision of a hardcover textbook being published under the title "How to Ruin your Developer Community and go Bankrupt"

20:27:33 [rbm]

Where does Tcl store this package database?

20:27:36 [jim]

question about databases, oacs and extended tables... every row of a typical acs table has an ID number that probably corresponds to object_id... if I want to have a table, then extend each row using a second table, I would establish a 1-1 relationship between rows, probably by making all the ids the same in the "composite row"... yes?

20:27:40 [Jackal]

ldd /home/nsadmin/aol342/bin/nsxml.so

20:27:43 [talli]

denshi :)

20:27:52 [Jackal]

libxml.so.1 => /usr/lib/libxml.so.1 (0x40011000)

20:27:58 [denshi]

come to think of it, I should get on that.

20:28:01 [Jackal]

libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x4007f000)

20:28:09 [Jackal]

libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x4008e000)

20:28:11 [rbm]

jim: Sounds like a good plan

20:28:44 [Jackal]

"/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)"

20:29:21 [jim]

ok, specifically about users (this goes to "I can't delete a user, or I'm not sure what's happening when I do so, and it says 'I did it'")

20:29:48 [davb]

Jackal: its finding libxml1 instead of libxml2

20:30:06 [jim]

we have users with a user_id, which must match a person_id in persons

20:30:17 [jim]

I delete a user...

20:30:26 [jim]

I try to create the same user again...

20:30:32 [davb]

brb

20:30:58 [jim]

it says "can't, found row in database matching the email addr you're trying to use"

20:31:52 [jim]

I know I'm wandering around here, and being sorta vague about my questions and such... but my understanding in this area is a little vague too... please bear with me

20:32:28 [jim]

so if I delete a user, how would I make it so the email address is available again?

20:33:05 [jim]

(btw, is this only happening to me? only happening on 4.5 with pg 7.2?)

20:33:34 [jim]

popping out a level, momentarily...

20:33:58 [rbm]

how are you deleting the user?

20:34:03 [jim]

I set my server to send out an email with a link to confirm registration...

20:34:49 [jim]

rbm: one sec please :) (congrats on getting the AM, btw... I'll make myself available to him for questions)

20:38:24 [jim]

before I got things together with my mail server (configuring relaying), it didn't yet work when I tried to get some users added... so, they would try to add themselves, the oacs would try to send the mail, qmail replied "domain not in rcpthosts (aka relaying denied from 127.0.0.1)"

20:38:59 [jim]

and my guess is the user record was not completely filled out in the db table...

20:40:18 [jim]

so then I tried to approve them, and thereby created a situation where the user tables weren't working because not all the attributes were filled in (upon someone trying to log in)

20:40:49 [jim]

so that's why I now want to delete the rows representing the users from the database

20:41:18 [jim]

ok, going back in a level (to process of deleting a user)

20:41:19 [rbm]

errr. I'm not sure what to tell you. Perhaps it's be best to just reinstall or delete all person entries (except for the admin)

20:41:42 [jim]

I was thinking that would be the case myself...

20:43:28 [jim]

but I wanted to learn something about the users mechanism... but in more general terms, Here I am, I can install an acs and an oacs,,, but when the first problem comes up, I have NO idea how to deal with it...

20:43:56 [Jackal]

does anybody know what I can do about /home/nsadmin/aol342/bin/nsxml.so: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GCC_3.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2)

20:44:25 [jim]

in acss that are used in companies, it's nice for them to have someone who can take care of problems without having to reinstall, taking all data with them :)

20:44:53 [hazmat]

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20:44:58 [jim]

I am GREEN in that respect. neuoobeeeieeee.

20:45:05 [jim]

err, newbie

20:46:19 [jim]

so, I have some users, and rather than dumping them, I want to try fixing... or one step less good, I want to delete the users without reinstalling whole system.

20:47:55 [rbm]

jim: Check the PL/{pg}SQL procs in the parties datamodel

20:48:03 [jim]

ok.

20:51:10 [jim]

community-core-create.sql

21:01:28 [jim]

question about create_type (will it create a table if not exist before?) and create_attribute (will it extend existing table to add attribute column if not exist?)

21:02:25 [davb]

jim: there are procs that will build the table and add columns for attributes

21:03:32 [davb]

acs_attribute__something

21:03:33 [davb]

I think

21:07:31 [jim]

ok

21:09:52 [rbm]

* rbm learns how to have his package have parameters

21:10:28 [til]

* til estimates rbm will have learnt everything about it in 10 seconds

21:10:56 [til]

ad_parameter is really convenient

21:13:27 [Jackal]

davb: is there a way to compile libxml2-devel myself

21:13:42 [davb]

I don't think thats the problem.

21:13:43 [davb]

try running ldconfig

21:13:58 [davb]

and then do ldd path-to-nsxml.so again

21:15:05 [Jackal]

ok

21:17:12 [Jackal]

ok - that worked : will try to load it on server

21:19:27 [rbm]

* rbm scratches head

21:19:58 [Jackal]

crikey! it worked

21:20:05 [davb]

I thought so.

21:20:11 [rbm]

To register a parameter you do apm.register_parameter(...) right?

21:20:22 [Jackal]

should I try xslt?

21:20:30 [davb]

you need to set the parameters in the package .info file

21:20:44 [davb]

or use the apm interface to add them.

21:21:56 [davb]

which will add them to the info file.

21:21:58 [rbm]

Ah... it's in the .ingo

21:22:23 [rbm]

crap. I thought I could add a parameter without reloading the package

21:22:24 [davb]

I think the apm uses that function when it loads a package.

21:22:37 [davb]

reload as in reinstall?

21:22:49 [davb]

it should work if you use restart the server I think...

21:25:24 [rbm]

I think I'll insert that param on the .info and then on the table, restart the server and see if that works :)

21:25:33 [rbm]

apm_parameters should do it

21:27:26 [rbm]

ohh, /acs-admin/apm/version-parameters should do it all for me

21:27:28 [til]

i think using the webinterface for adding a parameter is the easiest way ... afaik it should be available right after adding it, without restart/load

21:30:00 [davb]

bye

21:30:04 [davb]

davb has quit ()

21:30:41 [rbm]

Looks like it. That's nice

21:34:02 [til]

* til pulls his hair b/c dotlrn still won't work

21:40:47 [til]

* til mounts a _second_ instance of dotlrn and hides ...

21:44:36 [talli]

vinod: how is the 23rd of april for an oacs social? did i ask you this already?

21:45:38 [Jackal]

does anybody have some example code for how to use ns_xml?

21:47:49 [til]

Jackal: i have an old xmlrpctest package, but i am not sure if it still works

21:48:22 [Jackal]

i think I got it installed - i just don't understand how to use nsxml

21:49:03 [til]

there should be some examples in the toolkit too, e.g. where the .info files are parsed

21:49:11 [Jackal]

hmm

21:49:17 [Jackal]

ok - i'll look

21:49:18 [Jackal]

thansk

21:49:19 [rbm]

Jackal: Ask oacs-chomp for the URL. /m oacs-chomp view

21:53:37 [vinod]

talli: april 23 sounds good to me

21:53:47 [talli]

ok, cool

21:54:11 [vinod]

i'm on my way out to catch my flight

21:54:33 [vinod]

i'll talk to you guys in a couple weeks!

21:54:43 [vinod]

vinod has left #openacs

21:54:44 [talli]

later vinod

22:00:05 [talli]

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22:02:04 [denshi]

denshi has quit ()

22:28:32 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax (~nickb@pool197.eng.cv.net) has joined #openacs

22:28:39 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax goes home

22:28:56 [markd2]

* markd2 goes crazy

22:37:39 [jim]

Hi... could someone try registering on 12.233.187.5:9000/?

22:37:55 [til]

i'll try

22:37:59 [jim]

thanks...

22:38:06 [markd2]

want em to try too?

22:38:07 [markd2]

er, me

22:38:11 [jim]

sure :)

22:38:25 [jim]

I reinstalled; no time to try fixing...

22:38:28 [til]

* til is a jazz lover too

22:38:50 [jim]

* jim puts off learning to fix things without reinstalling everything for another day :)

22:38:58 [jim]

there's nothing there yet...

22:39:06 [jim]

just trying reg for now

22:39:54 [til]

* til reinstalls oacs/oracle for the third time to get dotlrn running

22:40:17 [jim]

progress? :)

22:40:38 [til]

To confirm your registration, please go to

22:40:38 [markd2]

well, outside of the confirmation having 'yourdomain.com in there', seems to work

22:40:57 [til]

... that's what i wanted to say too

22:41:13 [markd2]

I had to manually construct the confirm url

22:41:16 [markd2]

no biggie

22:41:21 [til]

jim, that is an acs-kernel parameter

22:42:27 [til]

i think setting that one should be included in the installation process

22:42:51 [jim]

ok, could one of you give it another shot with a different email?

22:43:09 [jim]

til: agreed

22:44:12 [markd2]

sweet

22:44:17 [markd2]

sorks

22:44:32 [jim]

nice :)

22:45:25 [jim]

thanks :)

22:46:38 [jim]

I'll put stuff on the site (forums, chord lessons, key signature drills) tonite, and mail out to people to try signing up again

22:46:45 [markd2]

cool

22:46:55 [markd2]

I'm really square. reading this stuff will be good for me :-)

22:47:06 [jim]

do you play?

22:47:07 [markd2]

when I see chord progressions on a chart, my brain goes numb

22:47:09 [markd2]

trombone

22:47:12 [markd2]

(and bassoon)

22:47:20 [jim]

hmmm, I can -help- you :)

22:48:01 [markd2]

I need all the help I can get

22:48:22 [jim]

know your key sigs? can identify intervals?

22:49:28 [markd2]

I know the key sigs. I can't identify them on sight

22:49:37 [markd2]

I have to count on my fingers to tell if something is a 4th or 5th, ferinstance

22:50:05 [til]

sorry, what's a key sig? are those the tones that one can play without moving the handle?

22:51:04 [til]

like c, g, c, e, g... on the trumpet?

22:53:03 [markd2]

you're thinking of the harmonic series

22:53:30 [markd2]

the key sig(nature) are the sharps or flats at the beginning of each line to tell you what's sharped/flatted in the piece

22:53:49 [til]

ah, ok

22:54:44 [til]

wow, having online lessons for that would be cool!

22:56:03 [til]

you could put up some mp3's as listening exercises too ...

23:04:01 [til]

i am entering the need for SystemUrl parameter on installation in the sdm

23:15:02 [Jackal]

guys: I'm having some trouble with aol3.10

23:15:24 [Jackal]

for some reason my home page is displaying the headers

23:15:41 [Jackal]

HTTP/1.0 200 OK MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 00:01:57 GMT Server: AOLserver/3.4.2 Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 8353 Connection: close Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 6684

23:16:34 [Jackal]

anybody know how to resolve?

23:16:34 [Jackal]

sorry ACS 3.10

23:19:09 [til]

looks like something else has been returned before the headers. did you modify the index.tcl(adp) or ad_header proc?

23:20:29 [Jackal]

no but I just updated my aolserver to latest stable version

23:20:54 [Jackal]

it is a index.tcl which is using doc_serve_template

23:21:12 [Jackal]

te pages not using doc_serve_template is fine

23:21:25 [Jackal]

however I use a different template for my root/home page

23:21:44 [Jackal]

so doc_serve_template allows me to specify master_home.adp

23:22:27 [til]

sorry, i've never seen this proc

23:23:16 [Jackal]

oh ok

23:24:53 [Jackal]

I'm also having other problems

23:25:06 [til]

could well be that never tested that aolserver with oacs 3.x

23:25:13 [Jackal]

for example typing filename doesn't redirect to filename.tcl

23:25:16 [Jackal]

it used to

23:25:32 [Jackal]

i'm sure

23:25:37 [til]

s/never/no one ever/

23:31:42 [markd2]

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23:57:18 [Jackal]

Jackal has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:0.9.9/20020311]")