01:15:05 <ack> ack (ack__@dsl-64-130-24-168.telocity.com) has joined #openacs
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02:12:42 <talli> hey guys, if i have an applicaiton i've downloaded into linux and it is only in binary form, where should i install the app?
02:13:00 <talli> in other words, what is the default dir for applicaitons?
02:13:15 <talli> i know i have to stick it in /usr/bin, but where does the app go?
02:13:26 <talli> anywhere i damn well please? or is there a standard location?
02:14:40 <talli> anyway, gotta go. TIA
02:18:58 <davb> I think /usr/local/bin is the better place...
02:19:11 <davb> or just stick it in your home dir if you are the only user using it
02:49:56 <davb> http://www.cplus.about.com/cs/beginningc/index.htm
02:49:56 <oacs-chump> A: http://www.cplus.about.com/cs/beginningc/index.htm from davb
02:50:36 <davb> A:|List of links for online C tutorials 
02:50:36 <oacs-chump> titled item A
03:15:38 <davb> argh: how come other people can get dotLRN running??!
03:20:23 <davb> aha, apparently my CVS checkout was old code, even though I checked it out today,.. must be wrong branch.
03:42:08 <davb> davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
07:44:01 <rbm> * rbm goes to bed
08:47:37 <talli> talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:31:19 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax (~nickb@pool197.eng.cv.net) has joined #openacs
13:44:47 <davb> davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
13:48:48 <Psychephylax> hey Dave
13:49:17 <Psychephylax> I need to covert this to something better sounding: "Quick from start to finish configuration"
13:50:55 <davb> how about "WTF should I do now?"
13:51:10 <Psychephylax> oh..dave
13:51:12 <Psychephylax> I have bad news
13:51:21 <davb> uhoh
13:51:24 <Psychephylax> yeah
13:51:39 <Psychephylax> I just heard Red Hat is going under (http://www.redhat.com)
13:51:47 <davb> "Quick Configuration Guide"
13:51:49 <davb> ?
13:51:51 <Psychephylax> Going to be bought out by freebsd
13:51:58 <davb> heh
13:52:07 <jim> jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs
13:52:13 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax snickers and says "APril Fools"
13:52:19 <davb> hi jim
13:52:23 <Psychephylax> Hey Jim
13:52:26 <jim> hiya...
13:52:39 <jim> hows things this morning?
13:52:58 <davb> not bad.
13:53:23 <Psychephylax> Apache, IIS...what other web servers are there?
13:53:32 <davb> tclhttpd
13:53:32 <jim> boa
13:53:41 <jim> ncsa httpd
13:53:52 <Psychephylax> AOLSErver!
13:53:55 <jim> cern httpd
13:53:59 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax smacks dave not for saying that first
13:54:10 <davb> I figured you knew that one
13:54:10 <jim> but but...
13:54:25 <Psychephylax> i only need 3
13:54:31 <jim> we thought you might habe possibly been aware of that :)
13:54:59 <Psychephylax> it doesn't hurt to repeat thigns others know :p
13:55:28 <jim> I suppose... and you did mention it :)
13:55:45 <jim> tomcat
13:56:30 <jim> I think oracle has some kinda web server built in
13:56:44 <davb> yeah, apache :)
13:56:58 <davb> I think it is anyway...
13:57:55 <davb> * davb reloads the data model for the nth+1 time
13:59:30 <Psychephylax> dave
13:59:34 <Psychephylax> come on, why do it linearly...
13:59:42 <Psychephylax> Do it to the nth^2 time
13:59:46 <Psychephylax> you'll get done faster
14:00:27 <davb> it loads much faster when X is not running.
14:02:13 <Psychephylax> Does this mean my computer is not Y2K Compliant...I came to work today and it said it was sunday March 31st
14:02:39 <jim> someone april fooled ya ;)
14:02:51 <Psychephylax> I lock my computer 
14:03:15 <jim> well, then they can't do that :)
14:04:13 <jim> you could run ntp...
14:05:44 <Psychephylax> hmmm
14:05:51 <Psychephylax> I wonder if I should
14:07:04 <jim> that part I don't know :) I only know it's a possibility :)
14:07:28 <jim> what OS is it?
14:08:27 <Psychephylax> Win2K Pro
14:19:11 <Spork> Spork (~nickb@pool197.eng.cv.net) has joined #openacs
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14:19:15 <Spork> damnation
14:19:19 <Spork> Spork is now known as Psychephylax
14:22:24 <jim> hmm, well maybe you could get a client... or maybe win2k has something
14:26:26 <rbm> moo
14:27:11 <rbm> Psychephylax: You probably need a machine dedicated to being the PDC with Active Directory and Exchange so that another Win2k machine can synchronize the time.
14:29:00 <Psychephylax> mooooo!
14:30:27 <Psychephylax> We have one that I can't use since it's on a private subnet...it's 10.18.x and I'm on 167.xxx
14:30:53 <Psychephylax> We don't do NT networking here...it's all *nix based :-/ but most desktops run Windows
14:33:46 <talli> talli (~talli@ip64-75-147-9.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs
14:34:09 <Psychephylax> Hi talli
14:44:31 <talli> hey Psychephylax
14:44:32 <paje> i guess Psychephylax is on the job and yet I still don't learn anything
14:46:21 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax thwaps© paje
14:49:18 <Psychephylax> I'm tempted to go bowl a game during lunch :-D
14:52:58 <jim> won't that be hard if simultaneous??!
14:58:22 <Psychephylax> hmmm?
14:58:25 <Psychephylax> naaah
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15:05:41 <davb> yeah, it works!
15:08:16 <davb> argh, 404 causes aolserver to crash still...
15:11:22 <rbm> Hm? 
15:12:36 <davb> for some reason the aolserver on my desktop crashes when it gets a 404 error. It only happens on this one.
15:12:43 <davb> perhaps I should recompile it.
15:15:18 <jim> what's 404?
15:15:29 <jim> file not found?
15:15:52 <davb> yeah
15:16:03 <davb> nope, recompiling didn't help
15:19:52 <davb> gdb says :Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
15:19:52 <davb> [Switching to Thread 4101 (LWP 4984)]
15:19:52 <davb> 0x081177ad in TclReExec (re=0x8c8eb34, string=0x8cb7434, len=39,
15:19:52 <davb>     details=0x8c8eb5c, nmatch=1, pmatch=0x8c912e8, flags=0)
15:19:52 <davb>     at ./../generic/regexec.c:171
15:19:52 <davb> 171     int flags;
15:21:01 <davb> the log is not too informative
15:37:23 <davb> hmmmm
15:37:30 <davb> now it doesn't crash...
15:37:59 <davb> nm, yes it does :)
15:47:44 <jim> what os are you running?
15:48:58 <davb> linux 2.4.18
15:49:16 <davb> I am learning the fun of gdb and examining memory :)
15:49:20 <jim> what libc?
15:49:37 <davb> oh, I'll have to check...
15:49:44 <davb> whatever is in unstable :)
15:50:00 <jim> youmean sid? I guess that's 2.2.5 or so
15:50:07 <davb> yes.
15:51:00 <jim> I doubt I can help here, but I wanna follow along at least somewhat:
15:51:39 <jim> the problem is, that when the server cannot find a file the connected browser asked for, aolserver crashes...
15:51:58 <davb> I can't prove that is the problem...
15:52:00 <jim> question: does the browser show a 404 message?
15:52:22 <davb> not sure, this stupid browser seems to have turned on friendly error messages again...
15:52:48 <jim> which means the browser does show a friendly 404?
15:53:01 <davb> not sure, this stupid browser seems to have turned on friendly error messages again...
15:53:12 <davb> oops
15:53:30 <davb> no they are not turned on.
15:53:42 <davb> what happens is aolserver crashes, so I get a cannot connect to server message.
15:54:09 <davb> I am trying to figure out if it is a tcl script or something in aolserver that is causing it to crash.
15:54:44 <jim> ok, if you'd bear with me a sec, 
15:55:04 <jim> I just wanted to find out if the browser gets any response from the server
15:55:16 <davb> np :)
15:55:19 <jim> and
15:56:03 <jim> when it does the crash, does the browser appear to be "busy getting data" or "document done"?
15:57:13 <davb> ooh, ok, it is busy for a few secs.. then I get the error message, so at that point it is done.
15:57:35 <jim> ok, so the server actually responds...
15:57:49 <jim> therefore the the file being not found is not the core cause
15:58:37 <jim> maybe it's something about the error message itself that causes the crash... strike that, doesn't make sense since the err msg does get sent
15:59:17 <davb> no, the error is generated by the browser.
15:59:24 <davb> because the connection times out
15:59:57 <jim> you mean the connection times out when you try to access the server after the crash occurs?
16:00:09 <jim> ohh
16:00:12 <jim> I see
16:00:35 <jim> so the error message on the browser is "connection timed out", not "file not found"
16:00:56 <jim> -and- the browser is busy for several seconds, perhaps 30
16:01:01 <jim> and then times out
16:01:02 <jim> ?
16:01:17 <davb> yes. I can see in gdb the server has segfaulted, but the browser is still waiting
16:02:09 <jim> ok, so I have to flipflop on the earlier statement, saying that the file not being found could very well be the core cause
16:02:36 <davb> yeah. I think that was a mistake on my part. there is some deeper cause here.
16:02:56 <jim> like some lib in unstable or something
16:03:05 <davb> possibly.
16:04:24 <jim> ok, my next move would be to find the place in aolserver where it's got a url, got the location corresponding to that url, and asks the libc if the file exists
16:05:05 <jim> another move I'd try would be to install a plain vanilla openacs on a different port
16:09:53 <jim> ok, my next move (...) place in aolserver (...) asks the libc if the file exists, and set a breakpoint just before
16:10:12 <davb> I have tried several openacs installs. The first time I saw this was with ETP.
16:10:21 <davb> this time is dotlrn. 
16:10:23 <jim> you might of course be miles ahead of me :)
16:10:31 <davb> so at least i know its not the database driver.
16:10:41 <davb> jim: I barely know what you are talking about :)
16:10:54 <jim> hmm, ok
16:10:59 <jim> do you wanna?
16:11:19 <davb> but I hate when things don't work, so I will try to learn more and fiddle around with it.
16:11:43 <davb> I need to find out what code is calling the command the causes the segfault.
16:12:11 <jim> there is a command that prints the stack in gdb
16:12:27 <davb> backtrace. I am looking at it now.
16:12:31 <jim> and also allows you to change which stack frame you're looking at
16:12:37 <davb> oh cool.
16:12:52 <jim> so, you can spill out some of the code
16:12:54 <jim> also...
16:13:10 <jim> are you doing gdb from the commandline
16:13:11 <jim> ?
16:13:19 <davb> yes.
16:13:39 <jim> you can choose one of about 3 frontends to gdb
16:13:44 <jim> one of which is emacs
16:13:48 <davb> oh. cool.
16:14:05 <jim> the emacs one works in console...
16:14:22 <davb> neat.
16:14:22 <jim> there are also ddd and xxgdb (works in x)
16:15:22 <davb> this is cool: #13 0x080e695f in EvalObjv (interp=0x891e340, objc=3, objv=0xbf1e5a40,
16:15:22 <davb>     command=0x8cb770a "template_tag_if \"\n      <td><small>0 items</small></td>\n\" $_ns_tempset]\n", length=70, flags=0) at ./../generic/tclParse.c:932
16:15:22 <davb>     script=0x8cb770a "template_tag_if \"\n      <td><small>0 items</small></td>\n\" $_ns_tempset]\n", numBytes=70, flags=0) at ./../generic/tclParse.c:1393
16:15:25 <davb> oops
16:15:29 <davb> I hate windows
16:27:07 <davb> wow, that is cool!
16:29:37 <rbm> There's also gvd, which I hear is the best graphical one.
16:29:45 <rbm> written in ada-gtk
16:30:18 <rbm> ddd was my dear friend during my data structures class
16:30:31 <jim> lemme see, I think I should debug why my adding-a-user is b0rked in this one acs (in which I'm insisting that they sign up to see content, and that they respond to an email when they sign up)
16:30:32 <rbm> now if I could just finish this post machine...
16:31:35 <davb> I am trying the emacs one first. I am accessing the machine through ssh
16:34:21 <davb> this is where it points after the segfault: 
16:34:24 <davb> int
16:34:25 <davb> exec(re, string, len, details, nmatch, pmatch, flags)
16:34:25 <davb> regex_t *re;
16:34:25 <davb> CONST chr *string;
16:34:25 <davb> size_t len;
16:34:25 <davb> rm_detail_t *details;
16:34:27 <davb> size_t nmatch;
16:34:29 <davb> regmatch_t pmatch[];
16:34:31 <davb> =>t flags;
16:34:33 <davb> I am not sure what t is
16:37:32 <davb> ah, its int flags...
16:37:37 <davb> the arrow covered it up
16:38:02 <jim> int
16:38:11 <rbm> if it only crashes on this one machine....
16:39:22 <davb> that appears to be the case.
16:57:42 <davb> what aolserver are you guys using? I am running 3.3+ad13
17:01:47 <jim> I think I'm running 3.4
17:04:55 <davb> with openacs4?
17:08:49 <jim> yeah
17:08:59 <jim> lemme check to make sure
17:09:04 <davb> ok :)
17:09:18 <jim> aolserver3.4.2-oacs1-src.tar.gz
17:09:51 <davb> ah. is that availalbe at openacs.org?
17:10:01 <jim> probably :)
17:10:19 <davb> I do not see it, only 3.2
17:10:26 <jim> 3.-2-?
17:10:39 <jim> try new-file-storage?
17:10:47 <davb> ah.
17:11:05 <davb> we should get that on the software page.
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17:11:49 <jim> well, I dunno if that would solve your problem...
17:12:02 <davb> hey there are win32 binaries for 3.3+ad13 there too.
17:14:28 <davb> hmmm, I don't see it there, and google does not find anything for that file name.
17:14:29 <davb> darn
17:15:15 <jim> want mine?
17:15:28 <jim> apparently, I have it :)
17:16:40 <davb> sure. that would be nice. I am guessing it has all the ns modules needed for openacs.
17:17:08 <davb> I see aolserver 3.4.2 is in debian
17:17:23 <jim> wait, I keep forgetting and remembering to cut your check... lemme do that now
17:17:52 <davb> don't worry, I still need to get something to put the cds in. :)
17:23:10 <Psychephylax> mmm...lunch
17:24:46 <Psychephylax> anyone want some brown rice?
17:25:06 <jim> love brown rice (calif short-grain? mmm)
17:26:14 <Psychephylax> dunno
17:26:24 <Psychephylax> but it's brown :) from a chinese place down the block
17:35:58 <jim> davb: does Sussman teach physics?
17:37:25 <davb> I think so.
17:37:38 <davb> didn't we do this already? :)
17:37:48 <jim> might have
17:38:31 <jim> specifically, I want to find out if I can get those lects too, as well as intro to elec engr
17:38:45 <davb>  my machines are named vorpal and snicker-snack
17:38:45 <davb> <redmonk> i did not miss that.
17:38:45 <davb> <redmonk> ;-)
17:38:45 <davb> <AaronSw-library> .google logicerror vorpal 
17:38:48 <davb> argh!!
17:38:55 <davb> http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/~gjs/gjs.html
17:38:56 <oacs-chump> B: http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/~gjs/gjs.html from davb
17:39:16 <davb> B:|Gerald Jay Sussman with a Giant Rat and other novelties
17:39:16 <oacs-chump> titled item B
17:39:44 <davb> http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~gjs/6946/index.html
17:39:44 <oacs-chump> C: http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~gjs/6946/index.html from davb
17:39:50 <davb> C: class web site for SICM
17:39:50 <oacs-chump> commented item C
17:45:35 <davb> bbl - lunch
17:46:14 <jim> damn. heavy.
18:54:56 <davb> * davb is back
18:57:47 <davb> jim: did you send that aolserver?
18:58:10 <jim> oh, oops :)
18:58:13 <jim> sec
19:05:26 <jim> I think I'm going to install "download"
19:11:04 <jim> hammering...
19:12:51 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:13:13 <davb> np :)
19:13:26 <davb> bbiab
19:13:32 <jim> hammer done, configuring stuff...
19:15:38 <jim> you ever configured download before?
19:31:37 <jim> OK... I think I got it...
19:31:54 <jim> 12.233.187.5:9000 and register
19:32:12 <jim> then it's at /download
19:38:28 <davb> excellent.
19:38:37 <jim> working? 
19:38:44 <jim> hmm, that you? :)
19:39:40 <jim> bb
19:40:09 <davb> yes. that is me hogging your upstream bandwidth
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20:08:42 <talli> talli (~talli@64.75.157.55) has joined #openacs
20:09:25 <davb> hi talli
20:10:07 <talli> talli has quit (Client Quit)
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20:10:23 <talli> hey davb
20:15:45 <davb> darn. I can't scp between here and my server...
20:15:50 <davb> weird.
20:17:13 <davb> sorry jim, downloading again, last time, I promise!
20:25:55 <davb> * davb builds aolserver 3.4.2
20:34:38 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@166.102.30.81) has joined #openacs
20:35:00 <davb> hi markd2
20:35:04 <markd2> greetings
20:35:36 <talli> to markd2
20:35:38 <talli> paje, markd2?
20:35:38 <paje> hmmm... markd2 is an improper republican because he uses nuclear bombs on offending directories
20:35:48 <markd2> markd2 is also | a dork
20:35:48 <paje> okay, markd2.
20:36:01 <talli> oh, i was goign to change it to JUST a dork
20:36:28 <talli> that's all you deserv... i mean, that's a high compliemnet
20:36:41 <markd2> heh
20:37:18 <davb> argh! ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-00001: unique co\
20:37:18 <davb> nstraint (DOTLRN.SITE_NODES_UN) violated
20:37:18 <davb> ORA-06512: at "DOTLRN.SITE_NODE", line 38
20:37:18 <davb> ORA-06512: at line 3
20:38:21 <markd2> the pain... the pain
20:38:44 <davb> it worked until I changed aolserver frm 3.3 to 3.4
20:38:56 <davb> I can't see how the data became un-unique in that time.
20:42:51 <davb> dotlrn tried to reinstall itself
20:49:20 <davb> argh, aolserver is now not responding, but gbd is not catching anything.
20:49:56 <davb> interesting: 
20:49:56 <davb> Program received signal SIGINT, Interrupt.
20:49:56 <davb> [Switching to Thread 4101 (LWP 9412)]
20:49:56 <davb> 0x400eddf1 in nanosleep () from /lib/libc.so.6
20:53:13 <markd2> what if you change back to 3.3?
20:53:55 <davb> hmmm... actually I probably screwed it up by installing 3.4 over 3.3 so there is probably some crap laying around. :)
20:54:06 <davb> I will remove the entire directory and start over.
20:56:30 <davb> darn. I deleted nsd-oracle
21:02:30 <markd2> this is *not* your day
21:08:39 <davb> heh
21:14:15 <davb> excellent, the same problem exists in 3.4.2
21:17:27 <davb> oh well.
21:17:33 <davb> I must have some bogus libraries on my system.
21:22:26 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
21:22:33 <davb> well according to apt I need 95mb of updates.
21:22:34 <denshi> hello party people.
21:22:37 <davb> hi denshi
21:24:13 <denshi> I'm learning that MIT is trying to make itself irrelevant.
21:24:37 <markd2> how so?
21:25:08 <denshi> they charge $12 for a journal article, $18 to mail you a PDF.  They charge $75 for a copy of a dissertation.
21:26:45 <denshi> I've been tracking down lots of language design dissertations recently.
21:27:29 <davb> wow!
21:27:30 <denshi> MIT is the single bitchiest university in the world when it comes to publication sharing.  They will do absolutely nothing to encourage the spread of their staff's work.
21:28:15 <denshi> seems like MIT is a nice place to be if you'd like to ensure no one ever reads your stuff besides your advisor.  Good for the shy, I guess.
21:28:43 <davb> all that when they are promoting open courseware and all. they must be very conflicted
21:29:22 <denshi> indeed, but how does one find a psychologist capable of counseling an entire university?
21:29:58 <davb> good question.
21:30:09 <denshi> that large a job would require a giant transforming robot psychologist.  on the upside, 'everyone loves giant transforming robots.'
21:30:20 <davb> well I must go, good luck.
21:30:22 <davb> heh
21:30:25 <davb> davb has quit ()
21:30:27 <denshi> bye
21:31:21 <denshi> what's new in badgerland, mark?
21:34:55 <markd2> not much
21:35:13 <markd2> recovering from the music stuff done over easter
21:37:28 <denshi> what do you play?
21:38:53 <markd2> trombone and bassoon
21:40:41 <denshi> do you have some kind of abstraction layer for that, or do you just serialize mouth access?
21:42:16 <til> til (til@port-212-202-128-197.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
21:42:20 <markd2> just serialze
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23:06:16 <denshi> evening, vinod.
23:08:09 <vinod> hey denshi 
23:08:21 <markd2> Vin(yo)d
23:08:36 <denshi> did you get word back on your latest round on NYC interviews?
23:08:38 <vinod> markymarkd2!
23:08:46 <vinod> * vinod asks for a drum roll
23:08:50 <markd2> NYC interviews?
23:08:57 <markd2> you moving out of the Boston(e) area?
23:09:07 <vinod> i accepted a job at Metropolitan Hospital in East Harlem!
23:09:13 <markd2> sweet!
23:09:14 <vinod> markd2: yup!
23:09:15 <jim> * jim drops a break drum :)
23:09:31 <markd2> as MD or Web Lackey?
23:09:36 <jim> vinod: wow :) you could meet Clinton :)
23:10:21 <davb> davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
23:12:57 <vinod> haha
23:13:00 <vinod> markd2: as MD
23:13:05 <markd2> even better
23:13:33 <vinod> i'm giving up on being a hacker full time - it's more fun as a hobby :-)
23:13:45 <vinod> markd2: congrats on the DBA thing
23:14:44 <vinod> hey davb 
23:14:44 <markd2> why thanks
23:15:31 <vinod> what's next on the slate? the medical licensing exam is this fall ;-) 
23:15:58 <markd2> heh
23:16:05 <markd2> I've seen how hard you guys have to work
23:16:09 <markd2> I'm plain too lazy
23:16:10 <davb> hi vinod. congrat on the new job
23:16:24 <vinod> thanks davb!
23:16:29 <jim> hey davb, could you check my site again to see if you can see downloads? also, when you regd, did I send you an email you used to confirm the reg?
23:18:39 <davb> no email. nope. I just downloaded.
23:19:16 <davb> I can't believe they are advertising a disney movie with an AC/DC song...
23:19:19 <denshi> markd2: do you have more good news about the DBA thing?
23:19:58 <markd2> nope, just that I passed my last test
23:20:12 <davb> jim: i can see the downloads
23:20:13 <hazmat> hazmat (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
23:20:13 <markd2> * markd2 heard a Twisted Sister song on muzak
23:20:16 <davb> bbl: dinner
23:20:17 <davb> heh
23:20:35 <jim> davb: Problem Child? Go Down? :)
23:20:41 <vinod> wow - i might actually start liking muzak now
23:20:42 <denshi> * denshi has the world's most talkative client on the phone.
23:21:14 <jim> davb: ok, could you try reging at some pt?
23:21:15 <denshi> * denshi wishes he had burned his ears off before accepting this guy's money
23:21:27 <vinod> denshi: are you charging by the word?
23:21:34 <denshi> I should..
23:22:20 <jim> davb: n/m... you did register...
23:24:25 <denshi> so vinod, when do you start?
23:25:13 <vinod> end of june
23:25:27 <vinod> so now i gotta find an apartment
23:25:33 <jim> is it your first MD gig after residency/
23:25:36 <jim> ?
23:26:08 <vinod> no, i practiced for a year after residency before i got lured into being a hacker
23:26:44 <jim> "Doc! No! Please DROP THE AXE!"
23:26:59 <markd2> at least he's moved up from Sporks
23:27:18 <vinod> heh
23:29:05 <jim> vinod: what's the state of acs mail? what app packages use it, if any?
23:29:57 <vinod> spam uses it. download, ticket-tracker use a couple procs from it. i think there might be a couple others
23:30:25 <vinod> overall it works, but it's basically a simple wrapper around ns_sendmail. it doesn't do bulk mailing or digests
23:30:26 <denshi> does acs mail cover the ground webmail used to cover?
23:30:35 <denshi> oops.. guess not
23:30:36 <vinod> i don't think so
23:30:40 <jim> would a future webmail pkg use it?
23:31:09 <denshi> i was reading the source to webmail last night... I want to add Intertwingle to an ACS webmail system.
23:31:13 <vinod> it could to send the mail out, but there isn't much set up to handle incoming mail
23:31:26 <vinod> intertwingle?
23:31:45 <denshi> first I have to rip out the java.. on the upside, half of the java is made irrelevant by postgres.. for instance, who needs CLOBs anymore?
23:31:46 <hazmat> hazmat has left #openacs
23:32:48 <denshi> http://www.mozilla.org/blue-sky/misc/199805/intertwingle.html
23:32:48 <oacs-chump> D: http://www.mozilla.org/blue-sky/misc/199805/intertwingle.html from denshi
23:33:18 <denshi> D: Intertwingle, an email graph constructor and query system -- a vague design.
23:33:19 <oacs-chump> commented item D
23:33:43 <jim> oh yes, I'm trying to find out why deleted users can't be recreated with the same email address...
23:33:56 <denshi> I am motivated because my inbox just topped 16 MB -- and that's without attachments or anything big.
23:34:37 <jim> so far, I'm finding out that the rows remain in the database...
23:35:08 <denshi> denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
23:35:21 <markd2> I usually arrange for backups to fail, and some catastrophe to happen to my mail archive drive
23:35:29 <markd2> clears out the inbox pretty well
23:36:00 <jim> wow... expensive practices :)
23:36:04 <vinod> the markd2-mail-bomb
23:36:36 <jim> "My mail spool is too big... hey, hand me that brick..."
23:37:37 <denshi> denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
23:38:23 <davb> * davb upgrade 150 packages in the off-chance that it will fix his crashing aolserver problem
23:38:35 <jim> sheesh :)
23:38:44 <davb> well apt is doing it anyway... 
23:38:58 <davb> its easier than learning C tonight.
23:39:44 <denshi> markd2, that sounds like an excellent plan.. but I'm more interested in keeping the mail.
23:40:47 <denshi> I've found like something like 90% of my total writing passes through my mail, so a neat system to construct variable paths through the mess would be a big win.
23:41:27 <denshi> and of course much better than a hierchical DB, ie folders, as most of my stuff catagorizes poorly.
23:41:51 <vinod> what kind of writing are you doing denshi?
23:41:53 <davb> folders for email are useless, the stuff just gets lost in there
23:42:29 <vinod> if it's as entertaining as your average bboard post, i'd like to read some of it :-)
23:42:56 <denshi> vinod: nothing very well, but stuff all over the map.  my life would be a lot simpler, and probably more lucrative, if I tried to meld some stuff together.
23:43:11 <denshi> what's your email?  I'll tag you onto a list.
23:43:19 <vinod> vinod@kurup.com
23:44:37 <denshi> also on the subject of melding stuff:
23:45:34 <denshi> I spent most of the weekend reading disserations and new books on new theories of mine.  I found that, yet again, someone else already did half my work.
23:45:44 <davb> excellent
23:46:14 <denshi> yesterday I was torn between being depressed about not being original, or ecstatic that my proofs are pre-validated.
23:46:27 <denshi> then I just got more coffee and got on with it.
23:46:36 <davb> I hate NYS. they sent me a form to fill out for financial aid I am not eligible for. 
23:47:11 <davb> if you are under 35 and your parents gave you a gift, you have to include their income on the forms.
23:51:44 <denshi> even if it's below the IRS reporting limit?
23:53:03 <talli> talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:53:41 <davb> yeah, they are a total pain in the ass.
23:54:17 <davb> brb - library