00:02:03 tontsa has quit (No route to host) 00:20:22 tontsa (tontsa@livingfor.net) has joined #openacs 00:22:22 hmm, more calendar weirdness 00:33:40 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:35:42 good afternoon, sir davb 00:52:53 hello til 00:56:00 somebody showed me that you can have anti-aliased fonts under kde, and even opera ... impressive 00:57:07 cool. 00:57:23 Can you turn them off at small sizes? 00:57:38 they are useless under 14pt/pixels or so 00:57:48 good question ... how could i check? 00:58:25 Opera 5 for win has a setting for it. I don't know how KDE works, I use XFCE :) 00:58:46 playing with the zoom feature in opera - it still smoothes small fonts, but i think they look ok 00:58:57 and stick with the ms web fonts for most stuff. 00:59:01 that is what I do. 00:59:15 they look pretty good in Xfree86 4.x 00:59:48 i am still missing some fonts i am afraid ... for example the url's in the oacs sitemap wont show up 01:00:15 really? they shoudl just be serif or sans-serif. I don't think it should be assuming you have any fonts installed. 01:00:51 argh another IE patch. I didn't even finish patching from the last 5 times. 01:01:48 ah i am missing courier - that's why i did not see the patch content in the sdm either ;-) 01:03:12 * til feels sorry for davb who has to use ie 01:03:19 just at work. 01:03:34 can't get rid of it, even if you use mozilla, you probably still need to patch it. 01:04:01 because ie patches are actually patches to the operating system? 01:04:24 because IE is inrrecovably intertwined with the OS. 01:04:47 for example, the file explorer uses IE etc... 01:05:06 windows is totally the opposite of unix, ie each program does one thing well and thats it. 01:06:02 in windows land one program does 500 things and other programs borrow parts of it.. 01:07:48 like that the only way to get webdav is iirc to install ie 5 01:08:04 too bad ... 01:27:14 back to algebra, one more test and I am done 01:59:49 davb: A friend of mine says that the "Enough Rope..." book is great 02:00:04 cool. 02:00:12 first I have to finish my math... :) 02:04:24 Is http://www.us.postgresql.org/ broken? 02:05:15 I only see blank pages tehre 02:05:18 there even 02:05:31 works for me 02:05:41 must be mozilla then 02:05:55 or they installed some rbm-blocker 02:06:18 works for me mozilla 0.9.8 02:07:04 * davb wonders how hard it would be to switch for a source compiled postgresql to the debian package.... 02:08:31 davb: pg_dumpall is your friend 02:08:34 pg_dump, a bit of editing, psql -f ? 02:09:29 at least you have to manually execute the postgres.sql script from oacs 02:10:13 do I need to dump for 7.1 to 7.2? 02:10:53 I might wait until rbms everything packages are done :) 02:11:20 actually though I need to keep openacs in CVS becuase I am already using modified code... 02:13:10 what does that mean: do I need to dump for 7.1 to 7.2? 02:13:15 ah sorry 02:13:27 davb: Yes you do. 7.2 is a major new version 02:13:33 ok. thanks. 02:17:06 Amazon.com is awesome in delivering targeted accurate content 02:17:58 yes. 02:18:22 I was thinking about what makes openacs special, and thought of amazon. 02:18:59 on amazon the list of books, etc.. for sale is not the interesting content. it is the links between what you bought, and what other people bought etc... 02:19:15 openacs is designed to build on information like that. 02:20:03 am I on the right track here? 02:20:30 I want to develop this more. basically its retelling part of the story in "the book".. as related to openacs 4 :) 02:20:59 davb: yes 02:21:12 It looks like I'll get to build an inventory system for OACS 4 02:21:22 excellent. 02:21:31 will you be able to write a little bit about it? 02:21:38 like? 02:21:54 I was hoping I could build on what's already there for e-commerce 02:22:10 not sure. I don't know what challenges there will be. 02:22:23 that would be nice. will it totally live in openacs or interface with another database? 02:22:34 davb: I'm not sure yet. 02:22:41 ok. I won't bug you. 02:23:04 My plan is to get people to write up interesting stuff they have done with openacs. so we can have a resource of different ways openacs can be customized. 02:23:10 The client is a gaming store. They do all the inventory in MS works spreadsheets. 02:23:20 ah. 02:23:53 except now I am working 2 jobs and going back to schoool.... so I am little strapped for time 02:23:53 They have 9 stores and they "update" each other by writing lists on paper and faxing to the other stores, who then enter into their MS Works spreadsheets 02:24:03 ouch 02:24:54 Eventually they want to be able to do online sales, mailing lists, wishlists, etc. 02:25:04 ah, sounds perfect. 02:25:09 That's basically what e-commerce is supposed to do, so I'm hoping to build on that 02:25:50 but i am afraid ecommerce is another candidate for rewrite 02:26:10 It'll be interesting to grab the data out of those spreadsheets and stuffing them into OACS 02:26:13 were you planning on having them use the web interface for orders? or building a desktop client to access the database? 02:26:16 s/them/it/ 02:26:37 csv is easiest for that i guess 02:26:49 davb: I don't know yet. Possibly both. 02:27:02 ok :) 02:27:19 I just talked to the client today, so I haven't given it much thought 02:27:39 til: What's wrong with ecommerce? (haven't used it) 02:27:50 Didn't Flurfly do work on it? 02:27:53 i started using ecommerce for my online food ordering stuff but ended up doing most of the stuff myself 02:27:58 sorry to be so inquisitive :) 02:28:08 mostly because it was too sophisticated for me in some respects, e.g. a deep sub/sub/category system 02:28:10 davb: no need to be sorry. 02:28:41 til: argh... that drives me nuts. that should be intergrated with the rest of the openacs. 02:28:49 and it's propably badly integrated with oacs4 ... as far as i know it has its own templating system 02:28:53 the seperate category systems for different packages. 02:29:05 oh - and did i mention it sets its own cookies? 02:29:11 ruins my whole argument as outlined back there... 02:32:20 there is propably a lot of great stuff in it, but it needs to be more integrated 02:32:36 i just see it has an csv bulk upload 02:34:00 davb: I think I'll get "Code Complete" instead. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1556154844/ref=ase_postgresql-20/002-3314098-5749647 (notice that I stuck the "postgresql-20" code in there to give some money to PG :-)) 02:35:20 "Writing Solid Code : Microsoft's Techniques for Developing Bug-Free C Programs" <-- this has _got_ to be a joke 02:35:41 not really. 02:36:00 those are the techniques for bug-free programs, doesn't mean everyone at MS uses them. 02:36:02 :) 02:36:14 it is supposed to be an excellent book. 02:36:33 rbm: have you read the pragmatic programmer? also very good. 02:37:39 davb: A friend lent it to me, but I only had time to read half of it by the time I had to return it. 02:37:58 I thought it was a great book 02:55:20 vinod (~vinod@208-59-181-207.s1477.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 02:56:41 hi vinod 02:57:07 * davb welcomes another opportunity to avoid work...er...visitor to #openacs 02:59:57 heh - hey davb 03:00:10 i'm all for work-avoidance :-) 03:10:18 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 03:10:56 andyn has quit (Client Quit) 03:10:58 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 03:11:05 andyn has quit (Client Quit) 03:18:54 yeah! I finished all the problems in my algebra book! 03:19:02 now on to geometry and trig. 03:20:59 woohoo! 03:21:04 nice going davb 04:10:09 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 04:10:09 vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:25:11 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 04:47:50 hazmat has changed the topic to: OpenACS 4.5 Beta available: http://openacs.org || Waiting For DotLRN (Godot) 04:49:25 haha 04:49:39 GodotLRN 04:49:57 go, dotLRN, go! 06:41:05 lin_guy (~lin_guy@h24-65-230-90.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #OpenACS 06:41:26 lin_guy has left #OpenACS 07:22:02 rbm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:23:04 talli (~talli@ip64-75-147-78.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs 07:38:32 paje has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:39:07 paje, you miserable bastard. always running off... 08:14:15 hi talli 08:14:15 talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:46:59 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:48:07 hi 13:55:09 Psychephylax (~nickb@pool197.eng.cv.net) has joined #openacs 14:03:15 I need web space 14:09:08 what kind of service? 14:12:11 just some basic web space 14:12:27 Although sometimes it gets lots of hits :) 14:12:49 I use cornerhost 14:13:02 http://cornerhost.com 14:13:02 A: http://cornerhost.com from davb 14:13:06 yeah, the trick is that I don't want to pay for it :) 14:13:14 oh, sorry, can't help you :) 14:13:20 I'm working on it though 14:13:30 I suggested to my boss we set up a box running apache :) 14:13:47 I work for an ISP after all 14:13:53 ah, yeah true. 14:23:24 need to format the box and harden it though 14:23:31 Maybe install Snort on it 14:23:36 and some firewall software 14:25:03 I wish they never blocked port 80 on my ISP 14:25:26 yeah, that is a pain 14:25:53 brb 14:25:56 Psychephylax has quit () 14:27:04 Psychephylax (~nblyumbe@sparky.ic.sunysb.edu) has joined #openacs 14:27:10 ahhh...console based 14:27:13 that's how I like it 15:21:05 bbl torture^H^H^H^H^H^H^H meeting... 15:29:57 hmm 15:43:28 hi ho...hi ho...upgrading the kernel I go... 15:44:22 davb, old blogs are funny to read 16:17:21 k2pts (~nkd@213.149.180.151) has joined #openacs 16:20:28 vinod (~vinod@209-122-236-115.s2496.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 16:20:39 hey vinod 16:21:07 hey k2pts 16:21:24 have you had the chance to try openacs with pg-7.2 16:21:56 yeah, well, with 7.2rc2, but mostly to check that installation worked. haven't banged on it too hard 16:22:12 it doesn't work for me and can't figure out what's wrong 16:22:22 it's the same problem as sometime ago... 16:22:39 it resets the connection to postgresql just after 16:22:47 generating secret tokens...really strange 16:22:51 also, 16:23:38 I have upgraded one database from 7.1.3 to 7.2 and it fails whenever I try to access /admin/site-map (there's a query that makes use of all three pools but I don't think that's it...it must be something else) 16:24:48 weird. does PG report an error? or just crash 16:25:11 just crash...I haven't looked at this very deeply and I intend to try it more tonight... 16:25:39 hey vinod 16:25:45 hey Psychephylax 16:25:47 sometime ago, when rc1 or rc2 was released, we had the same problem with openacs...it wouldn't show the submit button, remember? it's similar 16:26:04 the symptoms that is 16:26:20 yeah. it thought that had something to do with oids being used 16:26:33 could you explain a bit more... 16:26:57 i was hoping you wouldn't ask that :-) 16:27:01 lemme find the bboard thread 16:27:09 that would be great thanks 16:28:31 here it is: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0003RA&topic_id=14&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Testing 16:28:43 not sure if it's the same problem you're talking about 16:30:43 ok, I'll have to ping Don about it...any news if dotlrn is going to be released today, finally I mean 16:31:09 i haven't heard - hopefully it will 16:31:37 yeap 16:31:52 ok vinod, thx for that thread...we talk later 16:32:01 I'm going to play a bit with a fresh install 16:32:17 cool - i'll keep my fingers crossed :-) 16:32:35 heh 16:32:37 l8r 16:32:51 k2pts has left #openacs 16:34:06 k2pts (~nkd@213.149.180.151) has joined #openacs 16:34:09 that was quick 16:34:18 it's already there...so that's not it :) 16:35:52 hmmm .... i'm stumped then. once that problem was fixed, pg installed smoothly for me on 7.2rc2 16:36:34 don't know if I'm missing something but it looks strange to me...I did try a fresh install and it has the same problem 16:38:05 anyway, I'll head out and try to figure this out... 16:38:10 k2pts has left #openacs 16:43:38 hi vinod 16:43:47 hey davb 17:03:49 andyn has quit ("leaving") 17:06:30 k2pts (~nkd@213.149.180.151) has joined #openacs 17:06:52 vinod still there? I need a second opinion 17:08:20 hey k2pts 17:08:39 hey 17:08:51 here's the log dump, I need a second opinion 17:09:30 [29/Mar/2002:19:03:25][1505.9226][-conn6-] Notice: INSTALL-HACK-LOG-BEN: version_id is 2383 17:09:30 NOTICE: identifier "apm_package_version__add_dependency" will be truncated to "apm_package_version__add_depend" 17:09:30 NOTICE: identifier "apm_package_version__add_dependency" will be truncated to "apm_package_version__add_depend" 17:09:30 NOTICE: identifier "apm_package_version__add_dependency" will be truncated to "apm_package_version__add_depend" 17:09:30 Label NOTICE not found. 17:09:31 Label NOTICE not found. 17:09:32 Label NOTICE not found. 17:09:32 NOTICE: identifier "apm_package_version__add_dependency" will be truncated to "apm_package_version__add_depend" 17:09:33 Label NOTICE not found. 17:09:36 NOTICE: Message from PostgreSQL backend: 17:09:36 Label NOTICE not found. 17:09:38 The Postmaster has informed me that some other backend 17:09:40 died abnormally and possibly corrupted shared memory. 17:09:42 I have rolled back the current transaction and am 17:09:44 going to terminate your database system connection and exit. 17:09:46 Please reconnect to the database system and repeat your query. 17:09:48 [29/Mar/2002:19:03:29][1505.9226][-conn6-] Notice: Ns_PgExec: Trying to reopen database connection 17:09:50 [29/Mar/2002:19:03:29][1505.9226][-conn6-] Notice: Opening test-cvs-db on localhost 17:09:52 [29/Mar/2002:19:03:29][1505.9226][-conn6-] Error: Ns_PgOpenDb(postgres): Could not connect to localhost::test-cvs-db: FATAL 1: The database system is starting up 17:09:55 [29/Mar/2002:19:03:29][1505.9226][-conn6-] Error: Error sourcing /web/test-cvs/packages/acs-bootstrap-installer/installer/packages-install.tcl: 17:09:58 Database operation "0or1row" failed (exception NSDB, "Query was not a statement returning rows.") 17:10:00 while executing 17:10:02 "ns_pg_bind 0or1row nsdb0 { 17:10:04 select count(*) from pg_class 17:10:06 where relname = lower(:table_name) and 17:10:08 relname !~ '^pg_' and relkind = 'r' 17:10:10 ..." 17:10:12 ("uplevel" body line 1) 17:10:14 invoked from within 17:10:16 "uplevel $ulevel [list ns_pg_bind $type $db $sql" 17:10:18 invoked from within 17:10:20 "if { [info exists bind] && [llength $bind] != 0 } { 17:10:22 if { [llength $bind] == 1 } { 17:10:24 return [eval [list ns_pg_bind $type $db -bind $bind $sql]] 17:10:26 ..." 17:10:28 invoked from within 17:10:30 "db_exec 0or1row $db $full_name $sql" 17:10:32 invoked from within 17:10:34 "set selection [db_exec 0or1row $db $full_name $sql]" 17:10:35 ("uplevel" body line 2) 17:10:38 invoked from within 17:10:39 "uplevel 1 $code_block " 17:10:42 invoked from within 17:10:44 "db_with_handle db { 17:10:46 set selection [db_exec 0or1row $db $full_name $sql] 17:10:48 }" 17:10:50 (procedure "db_string" line 7) 17:10:52 invoked from within 17:10:54 "db_string table_count { 17:10:56 select count(*) from pg_class 17:10:58 where relname = lower(:table_name) and 17:11:00 relname !~ '^pg_' and relkind = 'r' 17:11:02 }" 17:11:04 (procedure "db_table_exists" line 2) 17:11:06 invoked from within 17:11:08 "db_table_exists apm_packages" 17:11:10 (procedure "ad_acs_kernel_id" line 1) 17:11:12 invoked from within 17:11:14 "ad_acs_kernel_id" 17:11:16 (procedure "populate_secret_tokens_db" line 3) 17:11:18 invoked from within 17:11:20 "populate_secret_tokens_db" 17:11:22 (file "/web/test-cvs/packages/acs-bootstrap-installer/installer/packages-install.tcl" line 46) 17:11:23 invoked from within 17:11:25 "source $__file " 17:11:32 take a look and I want to show you something 17:11:36 db_table_exists apm_packages is never called inside ad_acs_kernel_id 17:11:40 so that's strange, I don't know if I'm missing something obvious here...so I would really appreciate any ideas 17:12:28 k2pts: actually, look at the packages-install.tcl file. ad_acs_kernel_id is defined as a proc in that file and calls db_table_exists 17:13:09 oh you're right. I was looking under acs-tcl 17:13:33 yeah. for some reason it's redefined to override the acs-tcl def 17:16:10 it looks like postgresql is dying before it gets to that... 17:16:41 davb: any idea, why's that happening? 17:16:53 here's how I start my postgresql: 17:17:11 su -l postgres -c 'export LANG=C; /usr/local/pgsql/bin/postmaster -N 200 -B 1000 -o "-S 2000" -S -D /usr/local/pgsql/data ' 17:17:16 not really :) 17:17:41 I have all my setting in postgresql.conf.. let me look 17:17:48 ok 17:19:02 my connectsions (-N) is default (32) 17:19:11 my shared buffers are 256 17:19:22 so does that mean that I might be running out of memory 17:19:40 maybe. that seems like alot of shared buffers. they are 8k each I think... 17:20:12 ok, I'll give it another shot 17:20:22 oops, my max connections is actually 64... 17:20:32 my sort_mem is 2000 17:21:13 . 17:21:20 , 17:21:26 davb: I have 512MB, so I think it should handle that 17:21:27 : 17:21:49 sure. I am totally guessing. I don't even really know what those do. I just copied vinod :) 17:22:00 haha 17:22:08 and i just copied someone else 17:25:23 what ?! I thought that advice was guaranteed! 17:25:26 ok, testing again 17:25:31 :) 17:26:06 davb: you have the default settings...I think I copied mine from Henry 17:26:10 heh - sorry davb. you should know by now to ignore anything i say :-) 17:26:15 that was for 7.1.3 though 17:26:26 ah. right. I haven't tried 7.2 yet. 17:28:55 same thing...and I also get 17:28:57 [29/Mar/2002:19:34:35][2027.3076][-conn0-] Error: QD_LOGGER = Error parsing queryfile /web/test-cvs/packages/acs-subsite/www/register/user-new.xql: 17:30:47 there's no such file 17:31:30 i had a similar problem. the file is present in the openacs-4-5 CVS branch, but not in the main branch 17:33:21 interesting 17:34:10 I would expect that changes go into the devel branch and then merge...that's strange...I thought that that was don's plan... 17:34:21 i'm still confused about how to work with CVS and this new branch. should fixes be made to both branches? 17:34:38 no. fixes go in the beta branch. 17:34:45 new development goes in the devel branch. 17:34:50 is that right davb? 17:34:55 when beta is done, the fixes will be merged back into devel 17:35:05 so hopefully beta will be over soon. 17:35:08 yes but I think that don said the opposite, I might be wrong 17:35:09 so that means that the devel branch might not be usable temporarily because some missing files aren't merged in yet 17:35:38 I am surprised there ar emissing files. I was using the main branch right befoer it was split. 17:36:02 could be, if what davb is saying is true...I really thought it was the opposite going on... 17:36:20 I'm trying to update my beta branch and see if there were any changes lately 17:36:22 that was what I got out of the bboard thread... 17:36:36 k2pts: i think davb is right. don said that beta fixes would be merged back into dev 17:36:45 ok 17:36:55 and that putting fixes in both branches will complicate the merge 17:37:21 yes that's the post...I thought it was vice versa, whatever, I haven't applied any patches since beta 17:37:33 I don't see any changes on the beta branch though 17:37:55 don said he was going to work on applying patches this weekend. 17:41:59 really, strange 17:42:16 have to try again with the beta branch, see if it works that way 17:49:23 same thing 17:52:07 any ideas? 17:52:25 I can't even get 7.2 to install... 17:52:32 heh 17:53:53 i blew my 7.2 install away last wk, so i can't test right now 17:54:12 anyway I have to head out... davb: if you have any luck with this one, I would appreciate if you could email me so that I know I missed something but it's really strange...I can't think a reason for getting this behavior (backend dying) 17:54:32 my either, very strange. I'll let you know if I get it to work. 17:54:37 thx 17:54:38 l8r 17:54:41 k2pts has left #openacs 17:56:37 I am getting this error: usr/lib/postgresql/bin/pg_encoding: relocation error: /usr/lib/postgresql/bin/pg_encoding: undefined symbol: pg_char_to_encoding 17:56:37 initdb: pg_encoding failed 17:58:29 are you using the .deb? 17:58:42 yeah apt-get install postgresql 17:59:05 it won't install, and I can't remove it either... 17:59:49 oh remove -f works.. 18:01:39 i've always done pg from source, but i'll probably change to the debs soon 18:02:02 I always used source too :) maybe I still will. 18:02:29 heh 18:03:25 ah. it is picking up on my old 7.1.3 install... 18:03:32 that was from source... 18:04:23 yeah! 18:04:35 i removed /usr/local/pgsql from ld.so.conf 18:04:57 brb 18:04:59 davb has quit () 18:14:36 talli (~talli@ip64-75-147-104.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs 18:24:19 hey talli 18:24:38 hey vinod 18:24:50 i take it you caught that red-eye 18:25:08 pink eye? 18:25:11 actually, i didn't 18:25:20 oh, you were just ignoring me 18:25:25 but i left the office really late, and when i did i forgot your phone number 18:25:30 haha 18:25:34 nice excuse 18:25:48 i've heard that one from every girl i've asked out 18:25:56 haha 18:26:17 well, the difference was that i was actually looking for some action 18:26:23 so it's both of our losses 18:26:24 lol 18:26:28 glad you didn't call 18:26:34 haha 18:27:33 hey Psychephylax - i'm going to russia next week 18:35:47 really? 18:35:48 What part 18:36:05 moscow - for 4 days 18:36:08 cool 18:36:12 Tell them I said hi :-D 18:36:25 i'll write it in spray paint on the kremlin 18:37:24 lol 18:37:31 :-) 18:37:55 i can't wait. it should be a lotta fun 18:40:04 Don't get arrested! 18:40:11 haha 18:41:08 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 18:41:12 hi. 18:41:23 yo davb 18:41:30 hi talli, welcome back 18:41:36 thanks 19:03:23 man, sometimes my friends really piss me off 19:03:24