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00:11:37 <hazmat> * hazmat wanders
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03:02:23 <talli> google mapoogly
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13:06:33 <markd2> paje, nslookup badgertronics.com
13:06:34 <paje> badgertronics.com is 63.84.105.162
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14:30:33 <davb> http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/gvs9000/
14:30:34 <chump> A: http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/gvs9000/ from davb
14:32:39 <davb> A:|Rackmounted Dual-gigahertz PowerMac G4 - TerraSoft Solutions
14:32:39 <chump> titled item A
14:44:17 <davb> Userland does appear to be doing some interesting stuff: http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/03/13#paceOfInnovation I wonder what it is.
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15:18:58 <_miguel_> _miguel_ (~tyler@cancerbero.unileon.es) has joined #openacs
15:19:05 <_miguel_> hi guys!!!
15:20:01 <davb> hi _miguel_
15:20:45 <_miguel_> how are you doing?
15:20:51 <davb> not bad.
15:20:58 <_miguel_> sorry that yesterday i couldnt connect again
15:22:32 <davb> np
15:23:17 <_miguel_> ok
15:23:29 <rbm> Miguel de Icaza on #openacs ?
15:23:41 <_miguel_> no, miguel gonzalez
15:23:42 <_miguel_> sorry
15:23:48 <_miguel_> who is miguel de icaza?
15:23:55 <_miguel_> im miguel from spain
15:24:10 <_miguel_> dont you remember the crazy fool of the problem sets 3.x ? :)
15:24:12 <rbm> _miguel_: :-) I know. I was just making a joke.
15:24:54 <_miguel_> hehehe
15:25:00 <_miguel_> who is miguel de icaza?
15:25:37 <_miguel_> by the way someone took my nickname, guess that i need to register it
15:25:42 <rbm> _miguel_: You need to read "Hackers of our lives"
15:25:53 <rbm> paje: nickometer _miguel_ 
15:25:54 <paje> '_miguel_' is 26% lame, rbm
15:26:04 <rbm> paje: nickometer miguel
15:26:05 <paje> 'miguel' is 0% lame, rbm
15:26:19 <davb> nt you remember the crazy fool of the problem sets 3.x ? :)
15:26:20 <davb> <rbm> _miguel_: :-) I know. I was just making a joke.
15:26:20 <davb> <_miguel_> hehehe
15:26:22 <davb> arfg
15:26:23 <rbm> paje: bostsnack
15:26:23 <paje> rbm: sorry...
15:26:26 <rbm> paje: botsnack
15:26:27 <paje> thanks rbm :)
15:26:30 <davb> http://www.vestasys.org/
15:26:30 <chump> B: http://www.vestasys.org/ from davb
15:26:33 <_miguel_> what?
15:26:37 <_miguel_> i am getting lost
15:26:43 <_miguel_> you are calling me a lamer?
15:26:43 <rbm> * rbm twacks davb and his mouse
15:26:47 <davb> B:|Vesta : Source Management
15:26:47 <chump> titled item B
15:27:35 <_miguel_> wow, ive just seen the vesta web site, looks great
15:27:40 <rbm> _miguel_: Heheh. No. Paje is our resident bot (one of them). It has this "nickometer" feature that takes nicks and calculates how lame they are according to how many non-alphabetic and non-capitalised characters it has.
15:27:43 <davb> B: darn, only for Tru64, no port to IA32 yet.
15:27:44 <chump> commented item B
15:28:55 <_miguel_> so that means that i am 0 % lame?
15:28:56 <davb> argh. my gnome is all screwed up. curse Ximain!!
15:29:28 <_miguel_> does anyone of you use redhat? is there any tool to update the rpms?
15:29:38 <_miguel_> someone told me the name but i forgot
15:30:11 <davb> does apt keep track of what it has uninstalled in a log somewhere?
15:31:14 <_miguel_> Vesta is a GPL SCM?
15:31:53 <davb> LGPL
15:32:16 <_miguel_> L stands for what?
15:32:45 <davb> wait: "Platform: Vesta currently runs on the following platforms:
15:32:45 <davb> Linux on IA-32 compatible processors. The kits (one for i386 and one for i686) have been built in a RedHat 7.1 environment, but the binaries are statically linked and should work on a variety of distributions. A 2.4 kernel is a necessity, due to deficiencies in the 2.2 NFS client.
15:33:12 <rbm> _miguel_: "Lesser"
15:33:22 <_miguel_> ok
15:33:28 <rbm> _miguel_: www.gnu.org for more info on the GNU licenses.
15:33:39 <_miguel_> ok thanks sorry for my ignorance
15:33:42 <davb> looks a little too complicated for OpenACS.
15:33:44 <_miguel_> never heard about it
15:33:49 <rbm> _miguel_: no problem.
15:33:57 <_miguel_> anyway, where are the binaries?
15:33:59 <rbm> _miguel_: never heard of what? LGPL or GNU?
15:34:04 <_miguel_> LPGL
15:34:08 <_miguel_> LGPL
15:34:51 <_miguel_> only about GPL
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15:43:11 <_miguel_> anyway, where are the binaries?
15:45:23 <davb> I think there are none.
15:45:43 <davb> for vesta? or openacs :) ?
15:45:53 <_miguel_> vesta ;)
15:46:02 <_miguel_> so, they are not for free?
15:46:04 <davb> check their sourceforge site.
15:46:14 <davb> not its free, but you need to get the source.
15:47:52 <davb> ack, it IS free.
15:48:37 <_miguel_> ok
15:48:43 <_miguel_> where is their sourceforge site?
15:57:43 <markd2> what's vesta?
15:57:43 <paje> vesta is a GPL SCM?
15:57:49 <markd2> ah
15:58:37 <_miguel_> davb: do u know where is their sourceforget site?
15:59:36 <rbm> paje: no, vista is a LGPL Source Management system. http://www.vestasys.org/
15:59:36 <paje> OK, rbm.
16:03:07 <rbm> Interesting article by John C. Dvorak on Linux on the desktop
16:03:10 <rbm> http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1500&a=23172,00.asp
16:03:10 <chump> C: http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1500&a=23172,00.asp from rbm
16:03:20 <rbm> C:|Interesting article by John C. Dvorak on Linux on the desktop
16:03:20 <chump> titled item C
16:03:50 <rbm> He says Adobe Photoshop, not MS Office, is the main factor for Linux adoption on the mainstream desktop world.
16:03:58 <rbm> s/MS//
16:05:52 <markd2> do that many folks use photoshop?
16:07:14 <rbm> I think his point is that with an app of the respect of Photoshop boing ported, many others would follow.
16:08:08 <markd2> yeah
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16:09:56 <_miguel_> yes, photoshop is widely used in electronic document generation (pdfs), and i think if linux would adopt apps for multimedia, it would be used as workstations in some companies 
16:12:02 <rbm> :)
16:12:06 <rbm> * rbm goes to finish his homework
16:13:39 <_miguel_> i love the part about the radicalism in the linux community, a spanish guy here complained about the same thing
16:17:19 <rbm> I think the "radicals" are a minority, really
16:17:46 <rbm> The biggest problem, IMHO, is not "listening" to end users.
16:18:03 <rbm> http://www.linuxandmain.com/news/raymond.html
16:18:03 <chump> D: http://www.linuxandmain.com/news/raymond.html from rbm
16:18:35 <rbm> D:|In a far-ranging discussion that goes to the heart of whether developers know -- or care -- what users want, Catherine Olanich Raymond (Eric Raymond's wife) took her concerns to a succession of KDE developer mailing lists, with sadly unsurprising results.
16:18:35 <chump> titled item D
16:18:43 <_miguel_> yes, thats a problem in the software industry
16:18:57 <rbm> It's more so a problem in the free software community.
16:21:08 <_miguel_> really?
16:21:35 <rbm> I think so.
16:22:59 <markd2> yeah
16:23:06 <rbm> Proprietary developers are developing things because their boss is telling them to. Free Software developers are developing because they want something for themselves.
16:23:14 <markd2> the free software community really doesn't have a 'customer' to be accountable to
16:23:32 <markd2> or a real unified vision 
16:24:01 <rbm> I think the free/open source development model is a lot better, but we need QA from end-users. We need people to give us feedback, and consistently do so.
16:25:51 <_miguel_> i think you get such feedback once that you try to install something for a real customer, then you notice which are the problems with the software you are developing
16:27:24 <markd2> http://drew.corrupt.net/think-of-the-domokun.jpg
16:27:24 <chump> E: http://drew.corrupt.net/think-of-the-domokun.jpg from markd2
16:27:36 <markd2> E|: Think of the Domo-Kun!
16:27:46 <markd2> E:| Think of the Domo-Kun
16:27:46 <chump> titled item E
16:27:58 <markd2> E: (contains profanity) For those tired of the "God Kills a Kitten" picture floating around
16:27:58 <chump> commented item E
16:28:00 <rbm> What's a Domo-Kun?
16:28:19 <markd2> Furry japanese brick with teeth
16:28:47 <markd2> it's the latest all-your-base kind of meme
16:30:21 <markd2> http://drew.corrupt.net/domo.html
16:30:21 <chump> F: http://drew.corrupt.net/domo.html from markd2
16:30:28 <markd2> F:| A domo-kun page
16:30:28 <chump> titled item F
16:35:21 <_miguel_> i am trying to find a irc daemon, with SSL support if possible, i found SIRCD, but there is no docs for installing it, anyone knows anything?
16:40:01 <markd2> * markd2 is just a consumer
16:40:29 <rbm> doesn't dancer support ssl?
16:41:18 <_miguel_> dancer? mmm i will try to get info about it, thanks roberto
16:43:13 <_miguel_> i just need a good irc server, with SSL if possible, for customer service (java or any kind of client) and for meeting with my colleagues
16:44:33 <rbm> A member of our LUG wrote a Java IRC client
16:44:48 <_miguel_> LUG?
16:44:53 <markd2> Linux Users Group
16:44:56 <_miguel_> ok
16:45:03 <markd2> LUG is a TLA for "Linux Users Group"
16:45:07 <markd2> paje, lug?
16:45:07 <paje> i heard lug was a TLA for "Linux Users Group"
16:45:30 <_miguel_> is a java irc client for web right?
16:46:03 <rbm> _miguel_: usually. It's normally the only reason you'd subject yourself to the pain of using a graphical java app.
16:46:31 <_miguel_> hehehe
16:46:49 <_miguel_> where can i get that java irc client?
16:47:26 <rbm> http://fslc.usu.edu/irc/
16:47:26 <chump> G: http://fslc.usu.edu/irc/ from rbm
16:48:19 <_miguel_> thanks
17:01:23 <_miguel_> but it works for a customer service through a web page? i mean, a client connects and it is allocated to the IT guy who is free in that moment
17:04:23 <rbm> _miguel_: It's an IRC client. It connects to an IRC server in the specified channel.
17:04:41 <rbm> Anything more specific than that and you'll have to modify the sources to match your needs.
17:05:02 <rbm> Or hire Nate (the author) to do it for you. I know he'd appreciate a consulting gig on the side. 
17:05:27 <rbm> He works for HP writing Java apps to control HP's large disk array products.
17:06:29 <rbm> And yes, it works over the web. Just try it.
17:06:49 <_miguel_> ok
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18:05:51 <denshi> we meet again, monsieur somekh.
18:06:41 <_miguel_> who´s that for? :)
18:06:54 <markd2> talli?
18:06:54 <paje> * paje cries out "pimp, talli, pimp!"
18:08:14 <talli> ah... so now i'm a pimp?
18:08:16 <talli> at last!
18:08:27 <_miguel_> pimp?
18:08:31 <_miguel_> whats that?
18:08:44 <talli> _miguel_, it's a guy with putas
18:08:53 <talli> wait, maybe that's wrong
18:09:22 <_miguel_> putas?
18:09:25 <talli> anyway, i'm busting out my satin bell bottoms and sequined, tassled and ruffled polyester shirt
18:09:27 <_miguel_> XDDDDD
18:09:36 <_miguel_> putas=bitches in spanish
18:09:39 <_miguel_> watch out
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18:13:25 <davb> denshi: I read this and thought of your multi-user language: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newMar02.htm#14mar02-cityscapes
18:14:45 <davb> talli: do you know if dotlrn has online learning features or any sort?
18:14:59 <talli> like what?
18:15:28 <talli> it's "course management" but i don't really know how that is definied
18:15:32 <davb> Ok. 
18:15:37 <davb> I will have to wait then :)
18:15:59 <denshi> davb: badass. he's up to thinking about group-specific GC.
18:16:02 <talli> ben said on the bboards they are a couple of days away from opening cvs up, or at least access to cvs, which is great
18:16:20 <davb> yes. I will be downloading it. 
18:17:00 <davb> At work here, they are looking at the blackboard online ASP like service. I was wonderng if dotlrn can replace it.
18:17:22 <davb> http://coursesites.blackboard.com/
18:17:22 <chump> H: http://coursesites.blackboard.com/ from davb
18:17:23 <talli> depends on your needs. what are they?
18:17:35 <davb> Well that is also unknown at this time. 
18:17:44 <davb> So I will need to find out.
18:19:53 <talli> davb, dotlrn will have that stuff
18:20:06 <davb> cool!
18:20:30 <davb> I think I will be setting up a demo soon after the alpha release.
18:25:11 <davb> why are files called "Software Archives" in the download package?
18:27:00 <davb> wait, I see. an archive is for one "package" you can have multiple versions in each archive.
18:31:02 <davb> cool. the new testing package is very neat.
18:31:28 <davb> talli: you should contact simon so you can see it. it might be helpful for your sdm research.
18:32:11 <denshi> bye guys.
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19:01:46 <talli> davb, has simon posted his software?
19:06:23 <davb> no, he just whipped it up for the testers.
19:07:10 <davb> so we are testing it as well as openacs :)
19:07:19 <talli> makes sense
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19:29:17 <dwalker> anyone know where I can get aolserver 2?  I want to read some of the code from it
19:30:40 <markd2> the aolserver 2 source was never released
19:30:48 <markd2> C source
19:30:55 <markd2> the tcl code included I can get to ya
19:31:30 <dwalker> darn
19:31:36 <dwalker> thanks
19:32:35 <markd2> is that what you need?
19:32:59 <dwalker> no.  I'm trying to find the source for the old [ns_conn content] command
19:33:47 <dwalker> or another solution I can use to read the uploaded body from tcl
19:34:42 <markd2> like the payload for a POST ?
19:35:11 <dwalker> yes exactly
19:37:58 <markd2> ns_getform is written in tcl.
19:38:17 <markd2> which grovels around in the POST payload
19:40:19 <dwalker> it uses [ns_conn form] which is an ns_set
20:38:16 <dwalker> I think I got it.  I had to write c code for it 
20:43:00 <davb> I wonder if that is in AOLserver 4.0
20:43:40 <davb> most workarounds include writing the content to a temporary file and then reading it in.
20:44:25 <dwalker> looks like it is
20:44:30 <dwalker> and after I went to all that work
20:44:32 <davb> cool.
20:44:44 <davb> ah, can you steal their code?
20:44:58 <dwalker> maybe.  I'll look into it
20:46:17 <dwalker> my version requires it be hit before ns_conn form is hit
20:47:21 <davb> yes, that sounds familiar. 
20:47:30 <davb> it is good to know they fixed it though.
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20:54:18 <davb> hi k2pts
20:54:28 <k2pts> hey dave, check your priv messages
20:55:17 <davb> I hate mirc. I never notice :)
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21:07:05 <dwalker> OK.  I figured out why I crashed.  grep reqPrt->content is a bad command to type
21:07:41 <dwalker> it was recursively pulling info out of the file it created called "content" and infinitely growing it
21:10:54 <dwalker> and it doesn't look like I can steal aolserver 4 code for ns_conn content.  it looks like they rewrote a whole section there so if I want it I should start running aolserver4
21:11:48 <davb> you can write it to a temp file and read that :)
21:12:13 <dwalker> I could but my module works now
21:12:27 <davb> ah, that is more important.
21:13:11 <dwalker> it just took me several hours to realize it needs to run before ns_conn
21:27:49 <davb> I must be going now
21:27:59 <dwalker> have fun
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23:40:26 <rbm> shazam!