IRC log of openacs on 2002-03-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:01:15 [vinod]
talli - don't worry bout all the openssh updating hassles - just use telnetd
00:01:29 [talli]
ok
00:01:51 [talli]
usually i just login using wsftp and download my mailboxes that way
00:02:17 [talli]
i go in via root because the password never changes
00:03:30 [vinod]
there ya go. once hailstorm is up and running, you can just upload everything to msft so you'll only need one password (if that)
00:06:06 [rbm]
vinod: You don't need no stinking password. MS will make sure doubleclick takes care of that for you.
00:09:09 [vinod]
heh
00:09:41 [rbm]
So has anyone swalled the .NET pill yet?
00:11:44 [markd2]
I've already been immunized
00:12:37 [vinod]
haha
00:18:04 [talli]
you guys want to hear the plot of the play i'm going to see tonight?
00:18:10 [talli]
it sounds pretty good
00:18:46 [talli]
What happens when the woman of your dreams, although you didn't really even know you had one, washes up on your shore naked. Well, it's a love story.
00:19:02 [hazmat]
how cute.
00:19:04 [talli]
apparently, the lead actress has to walk around in her bra and panties for another part of the play, too
00:19:27 [hazmat]
so is going to the play a bit like try before you buy ?
00:19:34 [talli]
i must have done something bad to someone somewhere. vinod, is this your doing?
00:19:45 [talli]
gasp!
00:19:55 [talli]
hazmat! i am not so shallow!
00:20:14 [hazmat]
lol
00:32:58 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
00:36:27 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@r-41.36.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
00:53:32 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-161-172.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
01:13:39 [rbm]
I'll be darned
01:13:46 [rbm]
I think foxsports.com uses AOLserver
01:13:56 [markd2]
sweet
01:14:18 [rbm]
The login page looks remarkably ACS'is
01:14:21 [rbm]
s/is/ish/
01:14:36 [rbm]
http://foxsports.lycos.com/user/register/registration.adp?registrationCallbackUrl=
01:14:37 [chump]
A: http://foxsports.lycos.com/user/register/registration.adp?registrationCallbackUrl= from rbm
01:14:53 [rbm]
Why do I have to login to see TV listings?! Grrrr!
01:15:30 [rbm]
This site is unbearable... You have to download 2 Mb of Flash crap before you can see anything.
01:15:34 [davb]
that is very silly.
01:15:48 [vinod]
yeah, they use aolserver. i've seen the developer post on the aolserver listserv
01:15:55 [davb]
this is worse: Title: Unchecked Buffer in Windows Shell Could Lead to Code
01:17:26 [rbm]
* rbm plays elevator on xmame
01:17:38 [davb]
mozilla mail still sucks
01:17:59 [davb]
I must find a decent windows client.
01:18:55 [denshi]
they're using aolserver 3.4
01:20:15 [davb]
* davb gets ready to covert word to html
01:20:55 [davb]
argh!
01:21:07 [rbm]
davb: antiword
01:21:41 [davb]
that sounds cool. problem is they use a bunch of images and are too stupid to provide me with the actual images, so I have to somehow extract them from word...
01:22:25 [davb]
ohmigod, they are a$$holes
01:22:43 [davb]
they scanned in a borchure from another company and put the entire image on a page, I am supposed to covert this?
01:22:52 [davb]
I think I will send them a link to the US Copyright law
01:23:44 [vinod]
heh - that is pretty sleazy
01:24:13 [davb]
no, more dumb.
01:25:27 [markd2]
no, vinod's not dumb. so he must be sleazy
01:25:59 [talli]
i think vinod is dumb and sleazy
01:26:03 [vinod]
who says i can't be both *wink wink*
01:26:07 [vinod]
oh... wait
01:26:11 [vinod]
hey!
01:26:22 [talli]
see?
01:28:23 [davb]
going back to the light side...
01:28:24 [davb]
davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.5 [Mozilla rv:0.9.8/20020204]")
01:37:03 [rbm]
argh. elevator doesn't let you continue
01:39:22 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
01:39:46 [markd2]
elevator?
01:41:01 [rbm]
markd2: Yeah, the arcade game
01:42:24 [markd2]
cool. I'm not familiar with that one
01:43:54 [rbm]
It's a classig
01:43:57 [rbm]
classic even
01:44:27 [markd2]
is that one where you're a spy going down to the bottom floor?
01:50:25 [docwolf]
good evening
01:52:15 [markd2]
yo doc!
01:52:23 [docwolf]
how's it goin', markd?
01:53:04 [docwolf]
elevator action
01:53:45 [markd2]
goin' good
01:54:33 [docwolf]
cool
01:54:36 [docwolf]
rolf and i just ate pizza
01:54:40 [docwolf]
we are full and tired.
01:55:01 [markd2]
gonna take him harness racing?
01:55:06 [markd2]
I hear he likes the harness
01:55:13 [docwolf]
hehe
01:55:22 [docwolf]
he's begging to go back to the track
01:55:27 [docwolf]
but i fear he's got a problem with gambling
01:55:31 [docwolf]
so i'm keeping him away.
01:57:59 [davb]
must....work....
01:58:09 [markd2]
BACK TO WORK, SLAVE!!!!
01:58:18 [markd2]
uh, that must be your concience speaking
01:59:22 [docwolf]
so i finally snapped
01:59:28 [docwolf]
and built
01:59:32 [docwolf]
IT
01:59:38 [docwolf]
THE LAST PC YOU WILL EVER DESIRE
01:59:40 [markd2]
you've got a Megway?
01:59:41 [markd2]
she's hot!
01:59:43 [markd2]
oh
01:59:50 [docwolf]
http://www.wolfwater.com/articles/showarticle.php?name=building-silent-pc
01:59:50 [chump]
B: http://www.wolfwater.com/articles/showarticle.php?name=building-silent-pc from docwolf
02:00:15 [docwolf]
rolf's TiBook is the loudest laptop i've ever heard
02:00:29 [markd2]
just the hard drive, or the fan going too?
02:00:34 [docwolf]
fan
02:00:42 [markd2]
he must be doing something 'odd',
02:00:43 [docwolf]
when it cranks up, it's super-loud
02:00:45 [docwolf]
yeah
02:00:47 [markd2]
it almost never comes on for me
02:02:21 [markd2]
instead of using water to cool the systems (whcih makes you nervous it seems)
02:02:24 [markd2]
just use mercury
02:02:25 [markd2]
under pressure
02:02:27 [markd2]
that'll work better
02:04:09 [rbm]
markd2: Yes, that's the game.
02:04:34 [markd2]
an awesome game
02:05:21 [docwolf]
mercury, eh...
02:05:59 [markd2]
and friction-fit hoses
02:09:07 [docwolf]
this PC
02:09:10 [docwolf]
that i built
02:09:19 [docwolf]
is essentially silent. totally freaky.
02:09:29 [docwolf]
can't hear it over the ambient noise in the room.
02:09:40 [markd2]
you should get some noise-cancellation technology too
02:09:43 [markd2]
for that last little bit
02:09:54 [docwolf]
hehe
02:11:05 [docwolf]
even i'm not that nuts-o
02:12:49 [markd2]
I dunno
02:13:03 [markd2]
making the machine and writing it up on the internet sounds obsessive compulsive
02:13:10 [docwolf]
hehe
02:13:17 [jabba__]
jabba__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:13:18 [markd2]
* markd2 prescribes some zoloft
02:13:21 [docwolf]
actually, i was just getting annoyed with the SilentPC yahoo group
02:13:29 [markd2]
you're probably maniac / depressing too
02:13:40 [docwolf]
b/c they give all kinds of weird advice
02:13:43 [docwolf]
i'm manic
02:18:06 [rbm]
docwolf: silent pc? What CPU do you have? My biggest complaint with newer CPUs is that you need to ear ear plugs when you're working because of the fan noise
02:18:16 [rbm]
s/^ear/wear/
02:18:27 [markd2]
you need to ear wear plugs? :-)
02:19:15 [rbm]
markd2: Well, the ^ is to match "ear" from the beginning of the phrase. If, however, I had used s/ear$/wear/ then you'd be correct.
02:20:00 [markd2]
ah
02:20:05 [markd2]
I could never get those regexps
02:20:24 [rbm]
* rbm hits markd2 repeatedly with Mastering Regular Expressions
02:20:33 [markd2]
ow! ow! ow!
02:21:01 [davb]
put it under your desk.
02:21:07 [rbm]
* rbm continues to chug away in converting this ACS Permissions tediously explained
02:21:13 [rbm]
converting HTML to docbook is tedious
02:21:18 [davb]
MDF is a great sound insulator
02:21:55 [rbm]
BTW, if any of you have hardware lying around that you don't want anymore, I accept donations :)
02:21:58 [davb]
unless you have a cheap desk made from some other material...
02:22:13 [davb]
P120?
02:22:24 [davb]
P200 also
02:22:32 [rbm]
davb: P2's and above. Anything else isn't worth the shipping :)
02:23:09 [davb]
ok.
02:23:25 [davb]
I have an incredible array of 486 class devices that still work.
02:23:39 [davb]
or did when they were taken out of service.
02:34:43 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
02:37:36 [markd2]
http://www.wplug.org/pipermail/wplug/2002-January/002292.html
02:37:37 [chump]
C: http://www.wplug.org/pipermail/wplug/2002-January/002292.html from markd2
02:38:18 [markd2]
C:|someone who recycles old computers and makes them available to struggling communities in Mexico
02:38:18 [chump]
titled item C
02:39:00 [markd2]
C: more elaboration : http://www.wplug.org/pipermail/wplug/2002-January/002295.html
02:39:01 [chump]
commented item C
03:11:42 [davb]
I just had a cool idea.
03:12:05 [davb]
I am going to setup an ETP for my top secret project under a restricted directory.
03:12:34 [davb]
I really should switch over my business site to OpenACS 4. I am trying to sell it to people :)
03:16:38 [vinod]
or you could say, "it's *so* good, even i can't afford it, but i might be able to get you a deal"
03:16:54 [davb]
heh
03:16:59 [davb]
ETP has bugs.
03:17:13 [davb]
If you create a folder, then a subfolder of that and stick ETP int it, it seems to break...
03:17:19 [davb]
investigating.
03:17:29 [davb]
it won't let you _then_ add a subtopic
03:18:35 [vinod]
i haven't got a chance to investigate ETP much yet. i'm working on getting bboard to behave
03:18:47 [davb]
great!
03:18:49 [davb]
wait for ETP 2
03:19:07 [vinod]
will do - i read lukes doc and everyones comments and they seemed to make sense
03:19:12 [davb]
I might be able to have some workflow stuff in it next week.
03:19:18 [vinod]
awesome!
03:19:32 [vinod]
note to all - davb is now the workflow guy
03:19:36 [davb]
except I am worried that every screen adds 2 or 3 rows in a workflow table.
03:19:49 [davb]
that for basic UI stuff is useless.
03:19:50 [davb]
:)
03:20:24 [davb]
so workflow might not be a super replacement for widget-view widget-edit widget-edit-2 kind of stuff.
03:20:30 [vinod]
hmmm.. yeah, i'm not too good at determining when things like that will start affecting performance
03:20:37 [davb]
me neither.
03:20:44 [davb]
I know 512MB ram sure helps alot!
03:20:50 [vinod]
haha
03:21:21 [davb]
it takes minutes to startup OACS 4 with 256, but with the extra ram it restarts in less than 30 secs
03:21:33 [davb]
(running X in the too that is)
03:22:12 [markd2]
throw a couple more netscapes into the mix
03:22:27 [davb]
yeah, that always improves performance :)
03:23:13 [davb]
oops :) [07/Mar/2002:22:18:35][12062.1925126][-conn282-] Error: Ns_PgExec: result statu\
03:23:13 [davb]
s: 7 message: ERROR: -20000: This folder does not allow subfolders to be creat\
03:23:13 [davb]
ed
03:23:59 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
03:24:51 [davb]
oops. the new etp is grabbing another packages content...
03:26:21 [davb]
its not setting the parameters in cr_folders correctly.
03:27:39 [davb]
hmmm, that didn't help
03:29:48 [davb]
ah new error at least :)
03:30:06 [vinod]
thank god for small miracles :-)
03:30:42 [davb]
actually I was wrong. it still says I am not allowed to create subfolders.
03:30:51 [vinod]
d'oh
03:31:12 [davb]
I think it is because I mounted etp in a sub-subfolder. the fodler above is empty.
03:31:30 [davb]
it is not a cr_folder, just a site_map node.
03:32:00 [davb]
and I did this on the live site instead of the test server. that'll teach me!
03:34:06 [vinod]
:-)
03:34:33 [vinod]
* vinod is hoping to learn from davb's mistakes
03:34:39 [vinod]
but i probably won't
03:34:46 [davb]
hmmm. I have TWO packages now. packge_name and package_name_Edit_This_Page
03:35:11 [davb]
weird.
03:35:22 [vinod]
you mean in the APM? or installed on the site map
03:36:15 [davb]
APM
03:36:17 [davb]
argh
03:36:22 [davb]
all the folders are there.... :)
03:36:22 [vinod]
wow - that is weird
03:36:30 [davb]
in site-map anyway
03:37:00 [davb]
its too late. now Ihave about 8 extra etp instances I don't need :(
03:37:13 [vinod]
ugly
03:37:45 [davb]
and never mind about the double packages, I added those :)
03:38:24 [vinod]
the cloud of mystery thins a bit :-)
03:38:37 [davb]
* davb tries unmounting and deleting the packages...
03:38:55 [davb]
it seems to be not working...
03:39:26 [vinod]
i'm always scared to start that prcess because drop_scripts suck
03:39:52 [davb]
this is worse. deleting a apackage_instance. there is really no code to actually do this.
03:40:04 [davb]
if a pcakge has not data, it should work though.
03:40:05 [vinod]
ahhh
03:40:22 [davb]
I think I will have to do it from psql.
03:45:58 [davb]
something is making my delete pl/pgsql procs take way too long.
03:48:04 [davb]
the delete function may actually have been workiing, just really slowly.
03:49:25 [davb]
ok, anyone who is awake, what music are you listening to? I am listening to Classic Jazz Corner by dr. horner from Live365.com
03:50:06 [vinod]
i'm watching the news
03:50:13 [davb]
ah, sure :)
03:50:48 [vinod]
ok, ok... i'm waiting for the simpsons to come on
03:51:01 [davb]
heh
03:52:00 [vinod]
* vinod is loading his fixed bboard package in oracle
03:52:11 [davb]
It is almost a full time job just to keep up with MS security patches at work for 40 PCs.
03:52:16 [davb]
wow oracle!
03:52:53 [vinod]
lemme tell ya - oracle is sloooow on a machine with 192 mb
03:53:10 [davb]
yes. it is slow on a machine with 320mb too :)
03:53:30 [vinod]
woohoo - datamodel loaded. i don't think i've ever made changes without at least 1 typo
03:53:37 [davb]
I haven't installed on this new one though.
03:53:44 [davb]
hopefully the drop script works :)
03:54:35 [vinod]
heh
04:01:55 [davb]
OK I deleted all the content_items and cr_folders
04:02:50 [vinod]
did the drop script work?
04:03:08 [rbm]
hmm. posts to the aD bboardl
04:03:12 [davb]
I didn;t try it. I am trying to jus get rid of the bogus instances I mounted.
04:03:12 [rbm]
bboards even
04:03:40 [rbm]
and Michael Yoon replied. What's up there?
04:03:57 [davb]
apm_package__delete fails if a package owns any acs_objects in the system, but does not try to delete them. this is were on delete cascade does the work for you (if it was used :)
04:04:10 [davb]
rbm: wow!
04:04:24 [vinod]
davb: right
04:05:31 [davb]
doing it manually actually worked. although there were few revisions.
04:05:45 [davb]
actually content_item__delete does work to delete the revisions for you at least.
04:06:05 [davb]
but wow the functions are running really slow.
04:06:15 [rbm]
davb: so what's ETP good for anyways? Since you seem to be on top of the game there.
04:06:32 [davb]
rbm: everything :)
04:06:44 [rbm]
davb: A little more detail please?
04:06:58 [rbm]
I looked at it a while ago and it was great.
04:07:11 [davb]
actually it is good for site-provided content. I haven;t looked at accepting visitor submissions like news etc...
04:07:35 [rbm]
So it's a way for different people to submit and organize content right?
04:07:37 [davb]
You can specify a content_type and assign templates to it. very nice.
04:07:57 [davb]
sure. if you set the permissions you could have different sections for different people or groups.
04:08:32 [rbm]
How about building other applications/packages on top of it? What would be some things that would make sense to build on ETP?
04:08:36 [davb]
the next version looks like it iwll be even easier to use.
04:08:56 [davb]
rbm: I am going to build a classified ad system, job posting, etc....
04:09:06 [davb]
but for that I need the user-submitted stuff :)
04:09:15 [rbm]
davb: Oh. I'd be interested in the classified ads system.
04:09:23 [davb]
Sure :) I will share.
04:09:40 [rbm]
I'm thinking of building an inventory tracking system with it.
04:09:41 [davb]
actually I will probably solicit feedback on a design.
04:09:58 [davb]
would it need to synch with another database or something?
04:10:20 [rbm]
Possibly. I think I'll have to have something where clients will synch with it.
04:10:32 [davb]
It might be able to do that. if I can do it, ETP should be able to do it.
04:10:39 [rbm]
Which I don't know how I'll do yet
04:11:13 [davb]
because you will be able to assign workflows to the ETP types. and the stages at the workflow can fire pl/pgsql procs that "do stuff"
04:11:40 [rbm]
davb: ?? What are you referring to? You lost me there.
04:11:43 [davb]
you can provide templates to acs_workflow so that it manages the page flow between the different application states.
04:12:19 [davb]
rbm; etp itself has no provisions to keep track of stuff like the status of an inventory. I can imagine there is a process of some sort that it goes through.
04:12:37 [davb]
so workflow could be added to make sure all the steps were taken etc..
04:12:39 [rbm]
davb: Don't I have to have the datamodel for my application?
04:12:46 [davb]
rbm; Yes :)
04:12:57 [rbm]
I should stop asking dumb questions and just RTFM
04:13:09 [davb]
workflow just handles the transitions between steps.
04:13:23 [rbm]
I guess I'm not familiar with workflow either.
04:13:38 [rbm]
Debian's Postgres update scripts are nice.
04:13:41 [davb]
I am probably not explaining it well. I just started to understand it myself this afternoon.
04:13:50 [davb]
darn. I was using source.
04:14:15 [davb]
I could not get OpenFTS to work without the source because I needed to compile intarray from the contrib directory.
04:14:46 [rbm]
davb: Just install the Debian contrib package
04:14:59 [davb]
ah, duh. I'll try that!
04:15:04 [rbm]
(PostgreSQL contrib package that is)
04:15:32 [rbm]
davb: apt-cache show postgresql-contrib
04:15:53 [rbm]
intarray - RD-tree data structure using GiST index
04:16:05 [davb]
exactly :)
04:16:52 [davb]
I will have to upgrade my database myself, but that sounds cool.
04:17:28 [davb]
I seem to have expunged the errant package instances. :)
04:18:29 [davb]
ok. thanks! good night.
04:20:38 [rbm]
'nite
04:23:02 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
04:27:25 [vinod]
argh
04:27:51 [vinod]
you can't have bind variables that are reserved words in oracle
04:28:26 [vinod]
so ... 'update foo where foo_size = :size' fails because 'size' is a reserved word in oracle
05:22:17 [rbm]
anybody alive?
05:24:54 [rbm]
* rbm downloads
05:45:38 [vinod]
vinod has quit ("changing universes")
07:26:55 [chrismj]
chrismj (~chrismj@cs6668179-9.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs
07:27:40 [chrismj]
I just loaded the bboard application for the first time, and it says I need to restart the server. can I do that from the web admin interface?
07:57:57 [andyn]
andyn has quit ("leaving")
07:57:58 [chrismj]
chrismj has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:00:50 [chrismj]
chrismj (~chrismj@cs6668179-9.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs
09:06:25 [chrismj]
chrismj has quit ("[BX] Amount of time you people were funny: -59 minutes 42 seconds")
13:23:12 [dlk]
dlk (dlk@walter.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs
13:30:49 [davb]
davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
14:30:22 [davb]
davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:44:20 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@r-41.102.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
15:57:15 [rbm]
morning all
16:07:44 [dlk]
dlk has quit ()
16:07:49 [markd2]
hi
16:07:49 [paje]
hello, markd2
16:07:57 [markd2]
how are you, paje?
16:07:58 [paje]
you know how it is
16:08:00 [markd2]
vinod?
16:08:00 [paje]
somebody said vinod was dumb and sleazy
16:08:04 [markd2]
vinod?
16:08:04 [paje]
vinod is dumb and sleazy
16:08:08 [markd2]
yay!
16:08:14 [markd2]
22 / 7.
16:08:20 [markd2]
22.0 / 7.0
16:08:20 [paje]
3.14285714285714
16:08:23 [markd2]
pi!
16:08:34 [markd2]
again! is <action> spanks talli
16:08:36 [markd2]
again!
16:08:39 [markd2]
paje: again!
16:08:40 [paje]
* paje spanks talilee
16:08:50 [markd2]
again! is also <action> spanks talli
16:08:50 [paje]
okay, markd2.
16:08:54 [markd2]
paje: again!
16:08:54 [paje]
* paje spanks talilee or <action> spanks talli
16:08:58 [markd2]
grrr
16:09:01 [markd2]
forget again!
16:09:14 [markd2]
again! is <action> spanks talli | <action> spanks talilee
16:09:18 [markd2]
paje, again!
16:09:19 [paje]
* paje spanks talilee or <action> spanks talli
16:09:20 [markd2]
paje, again!
16:09:20 [paje]
* paje spanks talilee or <action> spanks talli
16:09:23 [markd2]
forget again!
16:09:28 [markd2]
again! is <action> spanks talli
16:18:39 [shagster]
Lots of spanking going on...and I missed it :)
16:20:58 [markd2]
paje, again!
16:20:58 [paje]
* paje spanks talilee or <action> spanks talli
16:21:02 [markd2]
forget again!
16:21:04 [markd2]
literal again!
16:21:04 [paje]
markd2: again! =is= <action> spanks talilee or <action> spanks talli
16:21:12 [markd2]
paje, forget again!
16:21:12 [paje]
markd2, I didn't have anything matching again
16:21:17 [markd2]
paje, forget again
16:21:17 [paje]
markd2, I didn't have anything matching again
16:21:20 [markd2]
hmmmm
16:22:43 [markd2]
paje, again!
16:22:43 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:25:16 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
16:25:24 [k2pts]
paje, again!
16:25:24 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:25:25 [markd2]
much better
16:25:28 [k2pts]
:)
16:25:40 [k2pts]
markd2: how's it going?
16:25:44 [markd2]
going well
16:25:49 [markd2]
the weather is turning nice here
16:25:58 [markd2]
so I have the windows open, enjoying the breeze
16:25:59 [k2pts]
the weather is always nice in Cyprus
16:26:12 [k2pts]
It's like summer here already
16:26:35 [k2pts]
california's weather is much like Cyprus (but we've got more humidity here)
16:27:08 [k2pts]
paje, again!
16:27:08 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:27:16 [k2pts]
paje, again! again!
16:27:16 [paje]
k2pts: sorry...
16:27:24 [k2pts]
paje, ok again!
16:27:24 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:27:36 [k2pts]
paje, just one more again!
16:27:36 [paje]
k2pts: excuse me?
16:27:48 [k2pts]
paje, again! one more time that is
16:27:48 [paje]
OK, k2pts.
16:27:54 [k2pts]
paje, again!
16:27:54 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:28:09 [talli]
paje, again!
16:28:09 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:28:17 [k2pts]
paje, again!
16:28:17 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:28:32 [k2pts]
paje: talli didn't get back to my email, again!
16:28:32 [paje]
k2pts: sorry...
16:28:35 [k2pts]
paje, again!
16:28:35 [paje]
* paje spanks talli
16:28:49 [k2pts]
hey talli
16:28:51 [talli]
this channel gets better and better
16:28:53 [talli]
hey k2pts
16:29:06 [rbm]
The weather here was nice on tuesday and wednesday (not to the point of opening windows though) and then yesterday we got a pile of snow.
16:29:13 [rbm]
luckily it melt pretty quickly
16:29:13 [markd2]
wow
16:29:30 [k2pts]
talli: do you like spanking?
16:29:41 [rbm]
And I'm hearing tractors outside so I think it snowed last night too
16:29:54 [talli]
i like paje's spanking
16:29:58 [k2pts]
:)
17:22:16 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
17:26:01 [davb]
davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
17:32:35 [davb]
davb has quit ()
17:54:22 [davb]
davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
18:23:16 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
18:34:45 [markd2]
rzolf is staunch
18:34:50 [markd2]
rzolf is also | a smooth buddy
18:34:50 [paje]
okay, markd2.
18:35:06 [markd2]
rzolf?
18:35:06 [paje]
it has been said that rzolf is staunch
18:36:43 [jim]
jim?
18:36:44 [paje]
you are jim  (just ask apt!)
18:36:51 [jim]
oh :)
18:36:55 [markd2]
heh
18:37:04 [markd2]
jim is | as jim does
18:37:21 [jim]
jim?
18:37:22 [paje]
you are jim  (just ask apt!)
18:37:23 [jim]
jim?
18:37:23 [paje]
you are probably jim  (just ask apt!)
18:37:26 [jim]
jim?
18:37:26 [paje]
rumour has it jim is jim  (just ask apt!)
18:37:28 [jim]
jim?
18:37:29 [paje]
somebody said jim was jim  (just ask apt!)
18:37:39 [jim]
paje, literal jim
18:37:39 [paje]
jim: jim =is= jim  (just ask apt!)
18:37:51 [markd2]
oop is ack
18:37:55 [markd2]
literal oop
18:37:55 [paje]
markd2: oop =is= ack
18:37:58 [markd2]
oop is also blarg
18:37:58 [paje]
okay, markd2.
18:38:00 [markd2]
literal oop
18:38:00 [paje]
markd2: oop =is= ack or blarg
18:38:06 [markd2]
oop is also | fnord
18:38:06 [paje]
okay, markd2.
18:38:13 [markd2]
jim is also | as jim does
18:38:13 [paje]
okay, markd2.
18:38:21 [jim]
jim?
18:38:21 [paje]
somebody said jim was as jim does
18:38:37 [jim]
hey, was rhymes with does!
18:38:57 [markd2]
gitdown
18:39:05 [markd2]
gitfunky
18:39:22 [jim]
don't mess wit da spunky
18:39:41 [markd2]
or paje makes ya hurt and da chunky
18:39:58 [jim]
heh
18:40:06 [jim]
ok...
18:41:19 [jim]
I ==still== think sc could be refactored to function exactly as it does now, plus add the ability to have pure plsql contracts
18:42:18 [jim]
(I think the author disagrees... but reason I'm thinking this way, is because the addition can be very useful)
18:42:32 [markd2]
what's sc again?
18:42:43 [jim]
acs-service-contract
18:42:47 [markd2]
ah
18:42:53 [markd2]
sc is acs-service-contract
18:42:56 [markd2]
sc?
18:42:56 [paje]
i think sc is acs-service-contract
18:43:03 [jim]
etp?
18:43:12 [markd2]
etp is Edit This Page, a cool easy to use CMS solution for ACS
18:43:12 [jim]
etp is edit-this-page
18:43:29 [markd2]
cms is a TLA for Content Management System
18:43:48 [jim]
tla is a tla for three letter acronym
18:43:55 [markd2]
tla?
18:43:55 [paje]
rumour has it tla is a TLA for a Three Letter Acronym
18:44:27 [jim]
how does it know that?
18:44:40 [markd2]
I told him in a /msg :-)
18:44:48 [jim]
oh :P
18:44:51 [markd2]
hoping someone would go
18:44:51 [markd2]
tla?
18:44:51 [paje]
tla is a TLA for a Three Letter Acronym
18:45:02 [markd2]
but alas this crowd is to smart
18:45:40 [jim]
but alas this crowd?
18:45:40 [paje]
alas this crowd is to smart
18:45:50 [markd2]
arg
18:45:54 [markd2]
forgot alas this crowd
18:45:59 [markd2]
forget alas this crowd
18:45:59 [paje]
markd2: I forgot alas this crowd
18:46:03 [markd2]
(first day with the new hands)
18:46:09 [markd2]
alas this crowd is too smart
18:46:12 [markd2]
(much better)
18:46:38 [jim]
it needs listvals and listkeys
18:47:24 [jim]
alas this crowd =~ s/too/tue/
18:47:28 [jim]
but alas this crowd?
18:47:28 [paje]
alas this crowd is too smart
18:47:42 [jim]
needs =~ too
18:47:51 [jim]
paje alas this crowd =~ s/too/tue/
18:47:52 [paje]
OK, jim
18:47:55 [jim]
but alas this crowd?
18:47:55 [paje]
well, alas this crowd is tue smart
18:48:00 [markd2]
heh
18:48:04 [jim]
paje alas this crowd =~ s/tue/too/
18:48:04 [paje]
OK, jim
18:48:07 [jim]
but alas this crowd?
18:48:07 [paje]
alas this crowd is too smart
18:48:14 [jim]
ahh, has it
18:48:44 [jim]
A:
18:48:44 [chump]
http://foxsports.lycos.com/user/register/registration.adp?registrationCallbackUrl=
18:49:08 [jim]
foxsports is an acs?
18:50:04 [hazmat]
thats interesting
18:51:03 [hazmat]
sadly i can't see it b/c they require flash
18:55:23 [markd2]
* markd2 hands hazmat a trenchcoat
19:02:02 [hazmat]
heh...
19:54:27 [denshi]
jim?
19:54:27 [paje]
it has been said that jim is jim  (just ask apt!)
19:54:32 [denshi]
markd2?
19:56:54 [markd2]
markd2 is a dork
19:57:01 [markd2]
alltel are a bunch of wankers
19:57:20 [docwolf]
hi all
19:57:31 [docwolf]
i've got a coding question for ya
19:57:38 [markd2]
"can't be done"
19:57:43 [docwolf]
that's what rolf said
19:57:46 [markd2]
that'll be $200
19:57:52 [docwolf]
:-)
19:58:02 [docwolf]
this sounds simple
19:58:08 [docwolf]
but... i don't think i can do it.
19:58:13 [docwolf]
ok, get this.
19:58:25 [docwolf]
there is a web site with a form
19:58:32 [docwolf]
i fill out info on the form, and hit submit
19:58:46 [docwolf]
how can I see all the parameters that I just passed back to their server?
19:58:49 [docwolf]
(including the hidden ones)
19:59:02 [markd2]
save the source of the form, edit the action to point to your server
19:59:06 [markd2]
and have a script on your server spew what it gets
19:59:10 [docwolf]
whoa
20:00:31 [markd2]
that'll be $200 :-)
20:07:57 [docwolf]
hehe
20:08:00 [docwolf]
hmm. interesting.
20:08:21 [docwolf]
how can you spit out everthing that was passed back in php
20:08:44 [docwolf]
it looks like there were lots of hidden variables
20:08:51 [docwolf]
i guess i can print them out one at a time
20:09:01 [talli]
docwolf, i'll tell you that for $100
20:09:09 [docwolf]
(this page looks like it was designed to prevent automated inputs)
20:10:30 [talli]
for $200 i'll crawl into your server and watch the bits and give you a real time play by play
20:16:45 [hazmat]
so talli how was the play?
20:23:16 [denshi]
docwolf - I have a different solution.
20:24:55 [denshi]
wait, no, dumb idea.
20:25:15 [markd2]
yeah. how was the "play"?
20:27:00 [hazmat]
;)
20:45:54 [jim]
Hi...
20:46:42 [jim]
how did aD do the cvs thing when it came to clients? I know they would usually have a staging site and the live site, they'd be under cvs... but how was that done?
20:48:15 [jim]
I also know that at aD itself, they'd do a vendor branch... what is a vendor branch? would both the live and staging sites be in that branch?
20:49:18 [markd2]
to tell the truth, different client projects did things differently
20:49:30 [markd2]
depending on the mood of who was leading the project
20:49:50 [jim]
ok
20:50:01 [markd2]
one the one acs 4 project that I worked on, we had our own CVS repository, and applied changes to the core by hand
20:50:06 [davb]
ack!
20:50:10 [markd2]
but since those were few and far between, it wasn't tough
20:50:14 [davb]
ah.
20:50:31 [jim]
by -hand-??
20:50:43 [jim]
you mean you went into the comma files and edited them?
20:50:48 [davb]
it is all explained here: http://www.arsdigita.com/asj/version-control/
20:50:51 [markd2]
oh not, not that bad
20:51:07 [markd2]
like seeing what was different, and then merging in the diffs, then checking them in
20:51:16 [davb]
I haven't actually got it to work, but that is my lack of understanding of CVS :)
20:51:53 [jim]
ok, I'll read that right now
21:25:48 [davb]
davb has quit ()
21:27:10 [denshi]
denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:55:04 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
22:17:10 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
22:26:46 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
22:29:26 [denshi]
davb!
22:49:52 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
23:05:32 [davb]
hi denshi, bye denshi
23:26:56 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.70.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
23:35:14 [jim]
markd2: hi, some questions about the cvs/acs thing...
23:35:14 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:35:22 [jim]
if you have time :)
23:35:23 [markd2]
hiya
23:35:27 [markd2]
sure
23:35:32 [markd2]
I'm gonna be bopping in and out making dinner
23:36:33 [jim]
ok, have you ever been on a project where they used the multiple-branch model?
23:36:54 [jim]
(branch per release, I guess)
23:36:55 [markd2]
like development happens somewhere, then there's a labeled branch for like staging?
23:37:32 [markd2]
or that a branch is made for a 'release', bug-fix work happens on the branch, and then a new release is branched off?
23:37:34 [jim]
right, and would same branch as for staging be pulled for production?
23:38:00 [jim]
I'm thinking of client sites, not acs releases
23:38:05 [markd2]
ok
23:38:08 [markd2]
yeah, "kinda"
23:38:26 [markd2]
on One Big aD customer, we had a staging branch, and the staging tree pointed to that
23:38:28 [jim]
did that arrangement work pretty well?
23:38:34 [markd2]
we were going to do it for production, but never got around to it
23:38:46 [markd2]
it worked OK. they're not doing it that way any more
23:39:10 [markd2]
since they moved to a different machine and re-organized their site
23:39:19 [jim]
so you were planning to branch production off of staging, merging either way sometimes?
23:39:28 [markd2]
yeah
23:39:37 [markd2]
it was mainly a one-direction propagation of stuff
23:39:46 [markd2]
so that a stray 'cvs update' wouldn't wipe out the tree
23:39:52 [jim]
but ended up just having staging branches?
23:40:03 [markd2]
yeah
23:40:22 [markd2]
staging was pointed to xyz-staging, then to push to staging was a cvs tag -f staging file-name.tcl
23:40:25 [markd2]
(or something like that)
23:40:42 [jim]
ok, so you merged bugfixes back into the trunk by creating and applying diffs?
23:40:54 [markd2]
rarely
23:41:03 [markd2]
but yeah
23:41:19 [markd2]
for the most part for this project, the bugs were found and fixed before any more 'dev' work happened
23:41:35 [markd2]
so it made sense to 'develop develop develop, release to stage, fix fix, release to prod; move on'
23:41:37 [jim]
that would seem to be a statement of non-commitment to the toolkit as presented to the open community...
23:41:45 [jim]
(on the part of aD)
23:41:52 [markd2]
heh
23:42:07 [markd2]
probably
23:42:21 [markd2]
toolkit enhancements at the time were usually emailed or SDM'd to the appropriate party
23:42:25 [markd2]
who usually ignored them
23:42:49 [markd2]
and this project was acs 2, and then subsumed parts of acs 3
23:43:03 [jim]
so long time ago...
23:43:03 [markd2]
so much of the work we did on that project didn't apply to the product as a whole
23:43:42 [markd2]
lost in the mists of time
23:43:47 [markd2]
nee nee nee noo nee nee nee noo
23:43:48 [jim]
so most of it was customizations that applied to the specific dlient and site?
23:43:52 [markd2]
yes
23:44:05 [markd2]
I was pretty much tied to that project for a great majority of my aD career
23:44:14 [markd2]
so I can't speak too intellegently of the company as a whole
23:45:38 [jim]
ok... what about 2-branch and no-branch models?
23:46:14 [jim]
and why would aD decide to use the less complex forms of version control?
23:46:15 [markd2]
right now they're (the client I've been talking about) using a no-branch model
23:46:33 [markd2]
which works for them, since they're not CVS studs
23:46:38 [jim]
so they just use tags?
23:46:42 [markd2]
generally the folks who used the less complex forms were the ones who didn't know cvs inside and out
23:46:47 [markd2]
not even tags
23:46:58 [markd2]
when a version is ready for staging or production, they cvs update it
23:47:26 [markd2]
the projects that were on the bleeding edge, using toolkits as they were developed (or were being supported internally), they used the more complex systems
23:47:35 [markd2]
especially if they had Ron helping them
23:47:48 [markd2]
by the time I got around to using a toolkit, it was usually not supported
23:49:26 [jim]
meaning that you were mostly extending older, more proven toolkits, and using those as bases for client work?
23:49:54 [jim]
(or maybe just "older" :)