00:00:20 I don 00:00:33 I don't know what talli is asking for, but I think it involves goethe. 00:48:06 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:52:15 davb! 00:53:12 hi denshi. 00:53:31 data migration hell completed? 00:53:36 * davb has had his eyes dilated and has to sit 5 feet away to see the screen... 00:53:55 denshi: not quite. almost. but we can't get overtime so we go home at regular time :) 00:54:12 woohoo! 00:54:46 did you see Jun's post on /bboard about mmbase? 00:54:52 I'm reading their docs now. 00:55:12 it is, I think, the most completely insane system I have ever seen. 00:56:18 the persistence layer involves throwing a packet of data into a swirling black maelstrom of unmodeled chaos. 00:56:35 intentionally unmodeled chaos, I should point out. 00:57:14 The query system involves calling on the favor of ancient forgotten gods, such as Borges may have written about. 00:59:06 Wait, it's all becoming clear now -- mmbase is writing "The Library of Babel", from Borges' Labyrinths collection. 01:19:56 I have heard of it before. 01:20:04 cool. 01:20:16 I like the features of ezpublish. 01:21:50 http://developer.ez.no/article/static/7 01:21:52 A: http://developer.ez.no/article/static/7 from davb 01:21:52 talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 01:22:05 A:| EZ Publish, nice CMS like features, PHP and MySQL 01:22:06 titled item A 01:23:52 A: has good support for adding photos to pages 01:23:52 commented item A 01:25:08 A: I have not looked at the actual code 01:25:08 commented item A 01:37:36 vinod (~vinod@216-164-246-24.s2627.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 01:37:47 hey everyone 01:37:52 rbm: you there? 01:37:56 vinod: hey 01:38:03 I'm getting ready to leave to our LUG meeting 01:38:11 ok, cool. 01:38:23 i'll just type and you can read the logs later 01:38:36 or should i send ya an email? 01:39:14 basically needs to be added to openacs.xsl 01:39:39 oh 01:39:47 at the top? 01:39:50 then, try to regenerate the html and upload it to openacs.org and see if that fixes it 01:40:04 okay, I'll try as soon as I get back (in about 2 hours) 01:40:07 i think so (i put it just under the xsl:import tag 01:40:20 cool! 01:40:35 I think we need to re-work some things on the install guide 01:40:42 i'm not sure if that will fix it, but i'm hoping it will 01:41:08 i've made a bunch of fixes today that i need to commit 01:41:46 to the install guide, that is 01:41:59 okay. 01:42:22 parts of the install guide assume you're compiling PG from scratch for example, which might not be true 01:42:46 yeah, it all assumes that :-) 01:46:14 i need to look at jmarsden's oacs 4 rpms since i'm planning to make debian packages 01:46:58 * rbm goes out 01:47:54 cool! 01:48:22 * vinod is still looking forward to shagster's one-touch ecommerce-site-in-a-box install :-) 01:55:06 the one that wires all the money to shagsters off-shore account? 01:55:10 oops :) 01:55:16 haha 01:57:53 vinod, hey! 01:58:31 dens, hi! 01:58:57 * vinod has a job interview in nyc on friday 01:59:10 cool! 01:59:28 for what? 01:59:33 yeah, i'm a little suspicious though 01:59:48 denshi: to be a internal medicine doctor in east harlem 02:00:30 i talked to the chief of medicine today and as he described the position, he kept stopping and saying "are you sure you're still interested?" 02:01:12 huh. 02:02:54 are you already in nyc? 02:03:09 nope - boston, but i want to make the move 02:04:41 ..... I think I'm going to be in nyc weekend after this one. 02:05:44 i'll be working up here that weekend. ya gonna finally give talli that ass-whuppin he's been asking for? 02:07:20 yes. Then I'll mail you his pants. 02:08:32 ahhh... you're assuming that his "girlfriend/stalkee" isn't wearing them already 02:11:25 I'm assuming his stalkee will be too big for his pants. 02:13:56 I'm reading the log from the slashdot IRC q&a earlier today.... those guys live in a universe all their own. 02:14:00 ouch. i'm all for raggin on talli, but i think his stalkee deservers more respect 02:14:05 :-) 02:16:17 * talli returns, only to find all of his cyber friends tearing apart his hard earned self-esteem 02:17:35 * vinod sheds a tear and apologizes profusely (meanwhile looking for the left hook that is coming from the other side) 02:17:38 gasp! 02:18:59 * denshi looks for austin apartments... 02:19:28 * talli prepares vinod's welcome to NYC 02:19:41 denshi: what? for a parking spot? 02:20:03 uhoh... 02:20:06 vinod: for a 1BR apartment near campus. 02:20:14 denshi, why are you going to be in NYC? 02:20:30 going to be in Pittsburgh by next thursday. We 02:20:32 chasing after the elusive multi-user programming language? 02:20:55 We're going to hit a couple parties, then head to either NYC or Toronto for a few days. 02:21:11 as for the language, I have my first stab at a run-time up and working. 02:21:29 it's pretty simple, and I know it's insufficient, but it's a start. 02:21:53 cool! 02:22:06 killer 02:22:20 why not use your idea as a undergrad project? 02:22:38 get credit for your work, at least 02:22:45 god I love LISP. I went to the pub, got plastered, talked anthro to a waitress for an hour, then saw that the symbol system in LISP makes a first stab trivial. 02:22:49 because i'm going to steal your idea real quick 02:23:00 talli: you read my mind. Both the research, and the stealing. 02:23:04 haha 02:23:17 you mean, god do i love beer! 02:23:22 that too! 02:23:49 * talli continues rubbing his temples and peers deeper into denshi's convoluted and perverted yet amusing train wreck of a mind 02:24:11 speaking of beer.... must get me a bottle o' guiness. 02:24:11 brb 02:24:17 hahaha. Thank you.... I think. 02:24:30 red wine for me... brb 02:24:56 oh - the peer pressure... brb 02:25:37 vinod, aren't hindus both temperant and vegetarian? 02:25:49 what were you to do in wisconsin? 02:26:26 I was under the impression that hindus are severly *not* temperant, and avoid beef. 02:26:48 perhaps i have the term wrong, which would not be a first 02:26:54 * vinod is unclear of the word temperant 02:27:03 wow, that was a good sentence 02:27:05 termerance != abstaining from alcohol? 02:27:36 I have yet to meet a hindu who doesn't drink. You may be thinking of sikhs. 02:27:40 temperance = * Restraint in the use of or abstinence from alcoholic liquor 02:28:00 ahh.. possibly, talli, but when in wisconsin, you do as the wisconsinites. religion be damned :-) 02:28:00 oops.. not sikhs, jains. 02:28:06 haha 02:28:11 what, drink to stay warm? 02:28:21 jains ought to be commended, and then laughed at 02:28:38 whoops 02:28:39 denshi: that and to support the local economy 02:29:01 IIRC, jains also avoid garlic. 02:29:16 * talli realizes that he has just ruined his political ambitions for the mayoral seat of varanasi 02:29:25 IIRC, jains avoid stepping on ants 02:29:43 I feel the need to support religions that discourage bad breath. 02:30:04 yep, and in some extremes, they wear masks over their mouths to prevent microorganisms from being inhaled 02:30:08 denshi, i too support vinod's quest to lead a cult 02:30:42 he should join the /. crew then. 02:30:55 i could never be a jain. it would undermine my belief that vinod MUST BE CRUSHED!!! 02:31:04 yes - organized religions of all types are easy targets for ridicule (except for Vinodiasm) 02:31:04 before you came back in, I was reading their irc log from today. 02:31:30 vinodiasm? is that some kind of lower form of sexual arousal? 02:31:40 ugh 02:31:49 I could buy vinod as a bodhisattva.... not sure of what, though. 02:32:06 that irc log must be the worst recording of nazi propoganda... 02:32:43 it's just nuts. taco is crying about suing alterslash for copyright infringement. 02:32:49 no way! 02:32:50 denshi: wow, high praise (i think) 02:33:01 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-74-51.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 02:33:06 irony will never cease! 02:33:13 so i says, find it yourself you baloney 02:33:15 HELLO! MCFLY! What has the /. crew EVER written!! (Except a manual for poor grammar, of course.) 02:33:18 that being said, here comes docwolf 02:33:19 you make me want to wretch 02:33:30 oh, is this thing on? 02:33:33 docwolf: stop talkin to rolf 02:33:34 hi everybody! 02:33:58 hello, mr. wolf. 02:34:01 rzolf (~rolf@above.badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs 02:34:09 gah! run for it! 02:34:33 more importantly, how does little Jose Farkas feel about that. 02:35:12 vinod, good point 02:35:15 oh my 02:35:25 stop dissing our alternative lifestyle 02:35:33 ok, i know i've sunk too low when talli complements me 02:35:40 the miata is a masculine vehicle 02:35:42 at least the kid will never want for corrective eye wear 02:35:53 http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/ 02:35:54 B: http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/ from docwolf 02:35:56 he told me so 02:36:10 docwolf, is lasik the bane of your existence? 02:36:43 wait, is rosie odonnell gay now?? 02:36:54 all of a sudden 02:37:04 she just woke up one morning and POOF! she was gay 02:37:15 so i'm going to have to figure out a new celebrity crush. 02:37:20 haha 02:37:26 this is just like when i found out mindy cohn was gay. 02:37:57 i thought she was a big tom cruise fan 02:38:06 we'll always have liberace, though 02:38:11 liberace was gay? 02:38:19 he wasn't? 02:38:26 he's 100% man 02:38:38 guys, please stop shattering my world view. 02:39:02 where, oh where, docwolf did you find peter pan's website? 02:39:16 at pixyland, duh. 02:39:23 touche 02:39:29 bartt (~chatzilla@dsl-64-34-176-81.telocity.com) has joined #openacs 02:39:54 Hello all, any body there? 02:39:58 nope 02:40:11 pixyland isn't too far from here 02:40:16 denshi, don't think i missed your questioning of my relevance 02:40:16 nobody here but us chickens. 02:40:19 * rzolf misplaced the Wham! album again. 02:40:21 nor is DEREK SMART, THE TACO SUPREME 02:40:29 oh god. 02:40:37 hi bartt 02:41:01 Has anyone noticed how comments are automatically deleted from the database after a while? 02:41:01 derek , tell us about your latest discovery in the world of amazing deals and low low prices 02:41:07 uh oh 02:41:16 davb and k2pts have been discussing that one 02:41:26 Hi vinod, I'm here to bug you all with a question 02:41:42 bug away :-) no guarantees on the answer 02:42:23 I learned about the disappearing comments while working with ETP. Don't know if it is specific to ETP though. Should I ping davb? 02:42:54 Isn't k2pts out of reach? Didn't he slip away ... 02:42:55 bartt, apparently the general comments get wiped out of the db every 24 hours 02:43:18 ummm.. davb may have looked into it. here's what i know (or think i know) 02:43:21 you may want to ping neophytos at k2pts@cytanet.com.cy 02:43:30 or post something to the bboards 02:43:34 bboard and gc both store content as acs_messages 02:43:56 I've taken a peek at the general comments package but nothing stood out as obvious. 02:43:57 hazmat has left #openacs 02:44:08 wait... how did we all of a sudden start talking about OACS? 02:44:13 can we get back off track? 02:44:21 bboard has a proc that does garbagecollection to delete messages that are no longer relevant, but it deletes all acs_messages which aren't relevant to bboard (i.e. every gc message) 02:44:30 That is right vinod, so I also took a look at acs_messages but the documentation wasn't very useful. 02:44:48 * talli goes back to get another beer and hopes this channel decides to talk about something less relevant before he gets back 02:45:23 damn 02:45:37 So I should take a look at bboard. Thanks for the pointer vinod. Talli, thanks for k2pts's e-mail address. Carry on ... 02:45:45 i think the problem is in bboard_garbage_collect in bboard-procs.tcl 02:47:39 k2pts was talking about rewriting messaging and comments, but i don't know if he just threw that out there 02:48:10 B: docwolf's therapist's homepage 02:48:11 commented item B 02:54:50 bartt, let me search the log. there is a sweeper proc in bboard that deletes the comments... 02:56:03 denshi, i'm reading the slashdot logs now 02:56:08 davb, I'll take a at my logs too 02:56:11 now wonder those asses make bad code 02:56:16 their complete idiots 02:57:03 true. 02:57:09 13:47:27 the problem with general_comments is in the bboard_garbage_collect_postgresql function 02:57:10 13:47:49 both bboard messages and general comments are stored as object_type='acs_message' 02:57:36 I'm reading Jonathan Rees' master's thesis. This guy is some kind of mutant. 02:57:46 who's he? 02:58:10 is that from the summer of langauges you referred to before? 02:58:18 primary developer on T, about which I linked to before. 02:58:25 ah, right 02:58:59 good night all! 02:59:03 bartt: the get_orphans query needs another and clause that checks to see if bboard_message__message_p is true 02:59:06 I'm reading this and thinking his brain must not fit entirely inside his skull - he must keep his back-up brain strapped around his torso. 02:59:06 see ya davb 02:59:09 night davb 02:59:14 night davb 02:59:27 night davb 02:59:27 denshi: very interesting 02:59:29 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 02:59:34 i keep my back up brain... wait. 02:59:46 I'll give if a wirl vinod. 02:59:47 * talli goes to look for where he left his backup brain 03:00:30 maybe you left it with your stalkee? 03:00:37 oh, right 03:00:47 bartt: actually, that won't work. bboard_message__message_p only checks to see if the message_id is in acs_messages (grrr!) 03:00:55 that bitch. i'll have to sneak through her window tonigth to get it back... 03:01:27 have you developed that? 03:01:31 talli: that might be a good time to install that webcam, ya know 03:01:42 oh, right. good idea vinod 03:01:59 i guess i should use your experience more often 03:03:10 vinod, the get_orphans query hasn't been ported either. There appears to be some unfinished work here. 03:03:52 hey, where did doc & igorzolf go? 03:04:18 tending to jose, i assume 03:04:19 bartt: actually, it's a PG only query. it's called from the function above only if the db_type is postgresql 03:05:19 Still shouldn't the query be in the postrgresql.xql file? If only for consistency. 03:05:30 right - definitely 03:07:35 denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection) 03:08:06 vinod, where are you going at the beginning of april? 03:09:12 to russia and finland. my father is going for work and i'm tagging along :-) 03:09:22 whoa. not bad 03:09:45 yeah - should be cool! 03:10:04 he's a PhD in allergy and will be giving some talks, so he's volunteered me to talk about "medical informatics" 03:10:16 haha. nice 03:10:18 of course, now i gotta make some BS up 03:10:42 tell them about general comments. what will they know? 03:10:51 haha 03:11:25 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 03:11:31 "ok, now that we've briefly mentioned the word medicine, I'm going to dive into the sql files." 03:15:37 "the problems of bioinformatics are boring, and the people who work on them are boring people" -- James D. Watson 03:16:04 heh - yeah but what did Watson ever do that was important ;-) 03:16:20 but i do find bioinformatics boring 03:17:09 i find medical informatics slightly less boring, but neither is as fun as medicine or computer science by themselves 03:17:19 sadly, that is how watson would start his lectures at bioinformatics conferences. 03:17:52 wow 03:18:14 then he would go into his standard spiel about how he scientifically deduced that "food and sunlight make people happy" 03:18:49 make a few off-color comments, offending asians and or women 03:19:06 then show some slides of former colleagues, and make fun of their research 03:19:11 then wrap it up. 03:19:29 heh - makes rms look warm and engaging 03:20:03 my uncle played smithers to watson's burns for about 8 years. 03:20:12 really! 03:20:15 yeah. 03:20:38 did he slowly become more and more insane or was he always like that? 03:20:39 whoa. so who's who in boca? 03:21:17 he was always like that. however his research into the "Sunlight and Eating" theory of happiness got more involved as the years went on. 03:21:53 it is genius. whomever would have thought that being outside during the daytime, and eating food would make people happy? 03:22:02 vinod: the crux seems to be to identify an acs_message as a message posted on a forum but no longer linked to a forum. Isn't this going to be impossible without a sub-object type or a skinny table like general_comments? 03:22:05 haha 03:22:40 this is all 2nd hand knowledge passed on from my uncle, of course. 03:22:46 bartt: at first glance i think so (haven't looked too deep) 03:22:57 but I did see one of his ridiculous conference speeches in NYC. 03:23:02 where was watson while he was doing this research? 03:23:03 bartt: bboard_message should really be a subtype of acs_message 03:23:22 my uncle worked with him when he was at NIH in bethesda. 03:23:29 now he's back at cold spring harbor 03:23:33 That is what I think! 03:24:10 And so should general_comment. 03:24:49 the coolest thing about watson is that he readily admits there were 2 other teams that came to the same conclusion as he and crick, its just that they worked extra hard to publish the paper first, so they could claim all the credit. 03:24:54 right. but i think we need to look at acs_messaging and make sure it's built properly before we build on top of it. when i ported it, i thought that it wasn't quite done right 03:26:28 chris__ (~chris@roving-70.engr.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs 03:26:54 quick question: how to get the cvs of oacs4 in totality? download all the latest? 03:27:45 http://openacs.org/faq/one?scope=public&faq_id=23#4 03:27:45 C: http://openacs.org/faq/one?scope=public&faq_id=23#4 from vinod 03:27:51 umm.... cvs -d:pserver:blahblahblah:/openacs-4 co openacs-4 03:28:00 C:| How to Get OpenACS 4 CVS 03:28:00 titled item C 03:28:03 I forget what blahblahblah means. 03:28:14 ok... I saw something like that but with openacs-core, and I didn't want just that. 03:28:32 instead use 'openacs-4' - that gets everything 03:28:37 the above grabs everything in the distro 03:29:43 vinod: which package will remain in the end: acs-messaging or acs-mail? 03:30:23 got it. thx 03:30:32 bartt: i'm not sure. i think it was going to be acs-mail, but i don't like the way it deals with the CR 03:31:26 it basically requires you to create your own content_item and stick the id into a column in acs_mail. I think it should subclass cr_revisions instead (kinda like acs-messaging does) 03:31:42 of course, that is my fault, since I added CR functionality to acs-mail :-) 03:32:15 but i didn't know anything about the CR back then, so I just followed the template that acs-mail followed with acs-content (the lightweight replacement of the CR) 03:32:28 So what originally seemed to be a small oversight might have much larger implications. 03:33:10 right. and again, i still don't know enough to decide whether what acs-mail does now is bad in terms of performance or extensibility 03:33:16 it just *seems* wrong to me 03:33:49 talli has left #openacs 03:34:12 acs-mail does have more MIME handling capabilities and it's has the potential to receive and process incoming mail, but i think all of that would be easily transferred to acs-messaging 03:36:47 Should we make Don aware of this so that he can decide how to go about the beta release? I'm happy to post a message on the OpenACS bboard. 03:38:42 yeah, i think i mentioned it to him a while back and he agreed that i should try to improve acs-messaging, but I dropped the ball because of time constraints (and brain constraints) 03:39:08 go ahead and post to the bboards 03:43:21 OK vinod. 03:43:57 what's the ETA for the beta release 03:45:04 chris__: i think soon (next couple days?). don't know more than that 03:51:16 bartt: got a question for you. 03:51:52 are you able to get 404 redirects working without hacking any code, just by using the .../redirects param in nsd.tcl? 04:04:09 * rbm moos 04:05:26 vinod: I'll need that xslt line again. You guys talked so much that it got past my log :) 04:06:02 heh - hold on 04:07:04 04:07:22 i put it just under the tag 04:07:23 * rbm adds it to openacs.xsl 04:08:06 I wonder where can we find chuck.xsl so we can put the URL there 04:09:23 BTW, I learned how to make man pages from docbook the other day. Pretty spiffy. 04:10:00 cool! 04:10:22 Much easier than writing nroff directly, albeit much more verbose. 04:12:44 vinod: have you committed your install guide changes yet? 04:13:01 I wanted to convert the ACS Permissions Tediously Explained into the docs set as well. 04:13:20 nope. i'm generating the html right now to make sure i didn't break anything. should be done in a minute 04:13:36 vinod: Okay. I guess you can check what's on openacs.org then. 04:13:44 I mean, wrt to the gremlins 04:13:48 rbm: yeah - that should definitely go in the developer's guide somewhere 04:13:54 I wonder if it's CVS doing something funk 04:13:58 s/$/y/ 04:14:42 weird 04:15:57 * rbm attempts the conversion to Docbook 04:16:53 * denshi goes the fuck home. Night all. 04:17:15 night 04:17:26 denshi has quit () 04:17:46 vinod: just got back in. 04:18:36 I used a combination of the redirects params and the modification of the request processor advocated by k2pts 04:20:14 bartt: What modification? This would probably by good to add to the FAQ 04:20:22 As I understand it this gives you the best of both worlds: the modification of the request processor redirects 404 errors to the page of param 404 in the redirects section while the other error messages are not handled by the request processor but taken care of by aolserver. 04:20:51 rdm: I'll add my changes to the FAQ. Good idea. 04:20:59 bartt: Please do 04:22:06 By using the /redirects params all redirection parameters are in the same place. I know that the config file is being demoted but because of the errors handled by Aolserver one can not use APM parameters. 04:22:41 Please visit any random page on http://www.7-sisters.net/ and you' 04:22:56 ll see an example of the 404 redirect. 04:23:37 cool 04:23:46 funky background 04:24:02 rzolf has quit ("rzolf has no reason") 04:24:13 Background at the request of my partner :) 04:25:36 Hmmm, how to do colors in Docbook 04:26:51 bartt: thanks for the explanation. very helpful 04:28:35 vinod: Do you know how to do colors in docbook? 04:29:08 nope. haven't gotten that far yet 04:29:29 hmmkay 04:47:13 bartt has left #openacs 05:26:30 brb 05:35:23 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 05:35:39 AaronSw (~aaronsw@63.149.73.20) has joined #openacs 05:35:59 BenSw has left #openacs 05:36:13 AaronSw has left #openacs 05:36:48 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 05:36:56 BenSw has left #openacs 05:40:56 hithere 05:42:21 talli: are you there? 05:43:15 rafa has quit ("[x]chat") 05:45:52 hi 05:50:59 rbm: i have an ugly solution to the funky A problem 05:52:46 we can replace each in openacs.xsl with and we'll get instead of the funky A 05:57:00 oh, the xsl thing didn't work? 05:57:13 I'm working on Docbook'ifying the ACS Permissions doc 05:57:18 I think that document is very important 05:57:30 Converting tables is ugly 05:57:47 i don't think so. openacs.org/doc/openacs-4 has the new version, right? 05:58:00 cuz there are still funky A's there 05:58:07 vinod: No, I have to manually update it 05:58:11 Let me do it really quirk 05:58:12 oh 05:58:15 err, quick 05:58:36 Sorry if I made you waste time thinking it didn't work (maybe it did) 05:59:01 np - if it works, i'll be happy :-) 05:59:03 It's updated now 05:59:22 hmmm, still there 05:59:41 yup. damn 06:00:08