IRC log of openacs on 2002-03-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:20 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #openacs
00:02:53 [hazmat]
* hazmat does a driveby on #swhack
00:03:12 [talli]
yeah, wtf are we doing there? i mean, sbp is there
00:03:53 [sbp]
yeah. Pff. You want to avoid channels that I'm in :-)
00:04:03 [hazmat]
so talli if the info is already there, then all thats needed is a template method to export the metadata in rdf/xml.
00:04:18 [talli]
ok, let's continue that conversation here ;)
00:04:23 [talli]
why a template method?
00:04:24 [hazmat]
* hazmat tries to swing back on track ;)
00:04:37 [hazmat]
you want to generate xml in tcl? ick
00:04:43 [hazmat]
just use the templating system.
00:05:03 [talli]
ok
00:05:24 [hazmat]
* hazmat tries to rearrange his brain to acs speak ;)
00:05:27 [talli]
i am also trying to think out whether there is anything in this idea that should be suggested for ETP2
00:06:10 [hazmat]
i think its easier and more useful to generically export this as a function of the cr, than package the functionality spefically for ept2
00:06:30 [talli]
yeah, that makes sense
00:09:26 [AaronSw]
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00:09:44 [sbp]
welcome to #openacs, Aaron
00:09:49 [AaronSw]
hey!
00:09:53 [sbp]
how may we help you?
00:09:55 [AaronSw]
i'm supposed to say that ;)
00:09:59 [sbp]
heh, heh
00:10:12 [sbp]
wow, a channel without xena? could it be?
00:10:52 [hazmat]
tis true, though incarnations have been known to stop by
00:11:08 [sbp]
ah, so this channel is the reason that our bots have "ster" suffixes on them
00:12:08 [paje]
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00:12:11 [rbm]
moo
00:12:15 [hazmat]
cow
00:12:19 [rbm]
paje: aaronsw?
00:12:20 [paje]
bugger all, i dunno, rbm
00:12:58 [AaronSw]
moo
00:22:22 [rbm]
hey AaronSw, have you met paje?
00:22:31 [rbm]
paje: who are you?
00:22:31 [paje]
i think i am the medicine man and oracle in Amazonian tribes. I'm also a recipient of church of mike's "full deal" package
00:23:31 [rbm]
* rbm notes that scanning at 400dpi can take quite a long time on his wimpy computer
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00:45:06 [talli]
java is sloooooooooooow
00:45:47 [AaronSw]
paje, nice to meet you
00:45:48 [paje]
AaronSw: sorry...
00:45:55 [AaronSw]
pff
00:45:59 [AaronSw]
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00:48:00 [rbm]
aaronsw is touchy
00:48:26 [rbm]
talli: Every Java-lover that I talk to seems completely delusioned to think that Java is fast
00:48:46 [talli]
fast in comparison to what?
00:49:05 [talli]
for what it is it may be fast
00:49:18 [rbm]
When they tell me what Java is fast, I ask them "What machine do you develop on?" and they usually reply "Oh, on Athlon XP 1900 with 1 Gb of RAM and 7200 RPM SCSI disks. Nothing much."
00:49:29 [talli]
haha
00:49:58 [talli]
i guess it's fast enough if you're running everything on an e450
00:50:13 [talli]
but then, imagine what an e450 can really do with good C code
00:50:33 [rbm]
I think that was the entire purpose of Sun's creation of Java: Sell more hardware because the thing is so darn slow
00:50:41 [talli]
could be
00:51:17 [rbm]
There are so many other interpreted languages out there and none of them are as slow as java
00:51:21 [hazmat]
i know its heresy, but i've actually started to become impressed by java's speed...
00:51:30 [hazmat]
when the app is well designed
00:51:54 [hazmat]
specifically i mean lucene, which is incredible
00:52:08 [rbm]
hazmat: Then show me this fast java app. I'd be glad to look at it and find out I'm wrong.
00:52:26 [hazmat]
lucene.com (jakarta redirect)
00:52:51 [hazmat]
its a library for text indexing, i've used it to index around a gig of text over the network from nntp servers.
00:53:37 [hazmat]
searches are blazingly fast ( < .05s) , indexing had constant memory characterstics around 16mb (lucene only used 1mb heap).
00:54:05 [hazmat]
err... searches after the initial search (when index is loaded) were fast.
00:54:53 [hazmat]
and to be honest java is faster than most scripting languages.
00:55:12 [talli]
compiled languages usually are, aren't they?
00:55:22 [talli]
i was using GUI jav
00:55:23 [talli]
java
00:55:37 [hazmat]
most scripting languages are byte-compiled for a language vm, nowadays.
00:56:18 [hazmat]
i never really used a gui java app... i think that has something to do with sun's choice not to use heavy weight peers, and to instead reimplemnt a drawing toolkit...
00:56:58 [hazmat]
i never really bought into java on the client side...
01:09:14 [rbm]
hazmat: Can you show me some numbers wrt to speed of java vs other scripting languages? I only care about Python/Perl/Tcl. My experience with Java apps vs other scripting apps is the opposite.
01:11:07 [hazmat]
minus startup time, java is definitely faster than python.. i don't have numbers off hand though.. the fact that types can be inferenced from bytecode allows signifigant virtual machine speed up. quite frankly java has alot of money and engineers to throw at the problem of speed.
01:15:11 [rbm]
Again, I don't see that happening on the real world. Money doesn't really equal a good product. Look at ACS 4.6 for a good example.
01:17:05 [hazmat]
java also has had the time to become much better, i think the acs4.6 would have been much better given time.
01:26:16 [til]
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01:39:42 [davb]
hazmat: we can generate our XML with nsxml or nsexpat C modules. Much faster,but probably a standard format would be easier with a template.
01:41:34 [davb]
talli: also the new category stuff is being design with dublin-core in mind.
01:41:46 [talli]
booya
01:45:26 [davb]
talli: did you see this "You should see the templating system that Jon and I did. I wonder where that is now. :)
01:45:26 [davb]
-- Lars Pind, March 5, 2002
01:45:27 [davb]
"
01:45:43 [talli]
no
01:45:51 [talli]
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01:47:01 [talli]
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01:47:19 [talli]
i'll ask lars about that
01:47:42 [davb]
cool. don already did on the bboard.
01:47:58 [davb]
I was looking for a message and I can't remember what it was....
01:48:30 [rbm]
* rbm heads to his photo class
01:49:08 [davb]
cool.
01:51:15 [davb]
ah,found it.
01:56:29 [talli]
davb, is that lars quote from the boards or from his site?
01:57:35 [davb]
the bboard
01:58:08 [talli]
ah,ok
01:58:11 [davb]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004By&topic_id=12&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design
02:26:19 [davb]
is there a command to load an sql file from inside psql?
02:26:42 [hazmat]
man psql
02:27:19 [davb]
heh, right, thanks!
02:28:08 [davb]
its \i
02:31:16 [hazmat]
* hazmat is reading up sane so he can scan in his pictures from the python conference...
04:16:50 [rbm]
hazmat: Sane is tricky, but once installed it's sweet
04:19:59 [rbm]
BTW, use xsane instead of xscanimage. It is _a lot_ better.
04:20:08 [rbm]
xsane 0.8.4 even has support for negatives.
04:27:10 [hazmat]
rbm: cool. thanks for the tips
04:33:52 [til]
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04:39:00 [rbm]
what scanner is this?
04:44:07 [hazmat]
none at the moment, i'm trying to pick which one to buy.
04:44:15 [hazmat]
any recommendations?
04:45:23 [davb]
* davb like epson.
04:45:29 [davb]
but I have a Umax 1220p.
04:47:07 [hazmat]
do you like your umax? how does it connect? scsi/usb/pp
04:47:23 [davb]
parallel.
04:47:31 [davb]
it works good, but its old.
04:47:47 [davb]
get a USB or SCSI. parllel is slow.
04:48:10 [davb]
Umax has one that has a transparency adapter and is USB for around $99 these days.
04:48:15 [hazmat]
hmm... i'd like to get a scsi if at all possible. my laptop came with a free umax scanner but its not supported under linux, and doesn't really work on windows either.
04:48:30 [davb]
ah. weird accessory for a laptop.
04:48:38 [hazmat]
i'd prefer scsi since i'm still running a 2.2 kernel for my desktop machine.
04:48:56 [hazmat]
it was either that or a bubble jet printer :(
04:48:59 [davb]
scsi is the best way to go if you can support it. which I assume you can.
04:49:02 [davb]
ah ok.
04:49:31 [davb]
darn. the sane driver for my scanner is only supported on sane 1.07 as a patch against the CVS.
04:52:28 [davb]
* davb is finally almost done with his algebra review!
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05:51:49 [talli]
http://www.labourstart.org/opera.shtml
05:51:50 [chump]
A: http://www.labourstart.org/opera.shtml from talli
05:52:50 [talli]
A: a "Free" web browser for unions
05:52:50 [chump]
commented item A
05:53:17 [talli]
A: the reason why working with nonprofits. they are usually completely clueless. this is opera 5.11. why they ignored truely free browsers, who knows...
05:53:17 [chump]
commented item A
05:58:02 [hazmat]
ola talli
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talilee is now known as talli
06:09:59 [jim]
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06:10:06 [jim]
Hi...
06:10:13 [jim]
rbm: ayh?
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06:12:22 [jim]
anyway...
06:12:41 [jim]
got your email; dealing with the advocacy now
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06:27:44 [rbm]
jim: hey there
06:27:46 [rbm]
paje: seen jim?
06:27:47 [paje]
jim was last seen on #openacs 15 minutes and 6 seconds ago, saying: got your email; dealing with the advocacy now [Tue Mar 5 23:14:42 2002]
06:27:57 [jim]
almost got it done
06:28:03 [rbm]
cool
06:28:09 [rbm]
what did you think of my package?
06:28:12 [hazmat]
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06:28:21 [jim]
haven't checked it out yet :)
06:28:33 [jim]
but here's what I'm sayin about ya :)
06:28:39 [jim]
(quote)
06:28:41 [jim]
Roberto is one of two coleaders in the openacs project, and he wants
06:28:41 [jim]
to maintain OpenACS in the form of debian packages. I interviewed him
06:28:41 [jim]
extensively on his skills and participation in the free software
06:28:41 [jim]
community: his scripting skills are at least sufficient to do
06:28:49 [jim]
packaging, and his participation includes coleading a group of
06:28:49 [jim]
volunteers that took the GPL part of the web toolkit known as
06:28:49 [jim]
ArsDigita Community System and altering it such that all the pieces it
06:28:49 [jim]
uses can be built out of all-GPL software. I have determined that a
06:28:58 [jim]
debian developer, Erik Andersen, is close to Roberto's location, and
06:28:58 [jim]
have arranged that they might communicate to sign keys. I am given to
06:28:58 [jim]
understand they will get together for the key signing this coming
06:28:58 [jim]
weekend. I believe Roberto will make a fine addition to the Debian
06:29:02 [jim]
developer community. Pending the key signing and identity check, I do
06:29:03 [jim]
hereby advocate Roberto Mello to become a Debian developer.
06:29:26 [jim]
time frame of the key signing correct?
06:29:30 [rbm]
cool, thanks
06:29:31 [rbm]
Yes.
06:30:08 [jim]
ok,
06:32:19 [jim]
sheesh,
06:32:32 [jim]
hd died where I had a coupla oacses
06:34:30 [rbm]
:(
06:35:06 [jim]
I even built a package I was getting ready to use :/
06:35:22 [jim]
hey, wanna help me make it better when I write it again/
06:35:23 [jim]
?
06:35:44 [jim]
it took me an hour or two to get it where it was
06:37:07 [hazmat]
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06:37:11 [jim]
I'll get it that far again, then I wanna get suggestions for what to do about db stuff... in its pure/primitive form, no db work is done
06:38:14 [jim]
check your rmello@fslc.usu.edu email
06:40:36 [jkhong]
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06:42:32 [jim]
just checked the web page... you're now one section further down :)
06:48:58 [jim]
I been wanting to try the XP thing with a package...
06:49:12 [jim]
except remotely
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06:52:38 [rbm]
jim: what XP thing?
06:52:48 [rbm]
jim: What package? If I can help, sure.
06:52:57 [jim]
eXtreme Programming
06:53:00 [rbm]
gimp-print rocks! It totally rocks!
06:53:14 [jim]
rbm: key signature drill
06:53:29 [rbm]
Ah, XP. I've been wanting to learn more about that.
06:55:29 [rbm]
jim: what you sent me is just for my records right?
06:55:41 [jim]
6-10 people who pair up at 3-5 terminals (different pairings each time)... one in pair has keyboard, and is concerned with implementation issues... other, observer, does overall view, offers design criticism and such
06:55:46 [jim]
rbm: yes...
06:56:13 [rbm]
jim: Yes, also with XP you have to have test cases before writing any code right?
06:56:15 [jim]
you should also have received a note from craig small (automailed) that says you'll get an AM sometime soon
06:56:21 [rbm]
yes, Idid
06:56:51 [rbm]
BTW, I liked writing man pages with docbook a lot more than with the regular nroff syntax. It's more verbose, but A LOT more readable and understandable.
06:57:15 [rbm]
Thank goodness for docbook-to-man
06:57:47 [jim]
umm, I forgot a lot about XP... I bought an "what is XP" type book, so I was able to read about it, I like some things, not others
06:59:06 [rbm]
Hey, I have a packages question for you
06:59:11 [jim]
ok
06:59:22 [jim]
let's see if I remember enuf to answer :)
06:59:30 [rbm]
This package that I sent you, irmp3, is a package that I indeed would like to add to Debian.
06:59:34 [jim]
I haven't packaged anything in awhile
06:59:40 [jim]
ok
07:00:08 [rbm]
However, it has two optional dependencies, LCDProc (for LCD displays) and LIRC (for remote controls with infrared)
07:00:40 [rbm]
In irmp3's current state, this has to be specified at build time, no loadable modules.
07:01:20 [rbm]
So what should I do? Have 4 different packages? irmp3, irmp3-lcdproc, irmp3-lirc, irmp3-all ?
07:01:56 [rbm]
brb
07:02:21 [jim]
what if you built them together, and have one package and have it be an option in a config file?
07:02:35 [jim]
so, one package that has a config file
07:03:21 [jim]
(but don't take my word as anything but a suggestion of a possible style)
07:03:56 [jim]
how large would irmp3-all be?
07:04:27 [jim]
in packaged form, that is
07:04:40 [rbm]
oh, unpackaged it should be like 500Kb
07:04:57 [jim]
that's very small...
07:06:04 [jim]
how much of that is the binaries (including executables, libs, anything else needed to run it not provided by a separate package)?
07:06:20 [rbm]
BUt the thing is lirc and lcdproc are packages of themselves. Both of them are deamons, irmp3 just compiles part of them in itself statically
07:06:36 [rbm]
Or maybe I'm wrong there... let me check
07:07:05 [jim]
often, developers will change the "shape"
07:07:31 [jim]
are these packages also yours?
07:08:00 [rbm]
jim: no.
07:08:17 [jim]
ok...
07:08:43 [rbm]
I think what I said above is no longer true. Was just looking at the new verison of irmp3 and it doesn't require it to find the lirc sources to build anymore, only if you want to use the functionality.
07:08:52 [jim]
I might go for one package that has everything, and add commandline and configfile switches
07:08:55 [rbm]
So I would put lirc and lcdproc in suggests
07:09:10 [jim]
(which means you might be writing an option parser)
07:09:46 [rbm]
irmp3's config file lets you specify "LIRC = 0"
07:10:00 [jim]
that's a build config?
07:10:20 [rbm]
Yes, but also a config file option.
07:10:26 [rbm]
(runtime)
07:10:39 [rbm]
Man, this printer is _awesome_.
07:10:50 [jim]
so that already exists... you can build it in, then turn it off?
07:12:23 [rbm]
yes
07:12:43 [jim]
maybe here, I'
07:13:12 [jim]
d go to the trouble of checking the size with and without the static inclusion
07:14:21 [jim]
if not-including it reduces the package total from 500k to 480k, big deal :) include, turn it off
07:15:50 [jim]
otoh, if it reduces it to 20k (sheesh, that would be big) then I might possibly implement a lib
07:16:13 [jim]
and dynamically link to that lib from the package
07:16:27 [rbm]
good point
07:18:03 [jim]
then you'd set a build-depend on that lib
07:18:27 [jim]
(apt-get can grab what's needed to -build- a package)
07:18:37 [rbm]
Oh
07:18:46 [rbm]
Guess I haven't learned about that yet :)
07:18:57 [rbm]
It looks like I do need lirc.h, but that's all.
07:19:22 [jim]
so you call functions, but it's not inlined code?
07:20:42 [rbm]
I guess so.
07:21:32 [rbm]
liblircclient-dev - Development files for LIRC client library
07:21:39 [rbm]
I think I'd need that.
07:25:55 [rbm]
Wow, if I hadn't printed this myself, I wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't a real photo print.
07:34:51 [jim]
question... why not link dynamically?
07:35:07 [rbm]
I don't think it needs to.
07:35:24 [rbm]
I think all irmp3 needs is the lirc_client.h available at build time.
07:35:29 [jim]
also, can you make use of the loader?
07:35:48 [rbm]
which loader?
07:35:57 [jim]
and the lib itself? or no?
07:38:02 [jim]
(that would be a build depend on that library, and either you build statically and don't depend on the lib at package install time, or dynamically, and -do- have a non-build dep in addition to the build dep
07:38:20 [rbm]
right
07:38:22 [jim]
)
07:38:43 [jim]
so you have some styles to choose from...
07:41:05 [rbm]
right
08:02:45 [rbm]
* rbm goes to bed
08:10:57 [jim]
nite
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13:53:51 [davb]
data conversion death-march continues
14:06:52 [jim]
data conversion? of which? :)
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connection reset by beer
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15:09:21 [davb]
day-job, enable to access
15:10:45 [jim]
ahh
15:11:12 [jim]
* jim is attempting to install openacs on a *bsd box
15:12:10 [davb]
cool.
15:12:20 [davb]
is that in the install guide?
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15:24:36 [jim]
yeah
15:24:55 [jim]
umm, aolserver-3.4... can I use that one?
15:33:06 [jim]
ok, nm, the docs say yes, but patch the tcl
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16:00:14 [vinod]
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16:01:32 [davb]
howdy vinod!
16:01:39 [vinod]
hey davb!
16:01:49 [jim]
re vinod
16:01:52 [markd2]
funkin' Å
16:01:59 [vinod]
hey jim
16:02:08 [vinod]
markd2!!
16:02:14 [markd2]
Vinod!!
16:02:24 [jim]
hiya markd2
16:02:34 [vinod]
i'm character-set clueless
16:03:00 [jim]
just look at this channel :)
16:03:24 [jim]
it's a character set if I ever seed one :)
16:03:30 [vinod]
haha
16:03:40 [vinod]
true true, even without talli here
16:03:42 [rbm]
Í ám nõt fünky as thêy
16:04:03 [davb]
character set theory
16:04:11 [rbm]
x² + y + ¼
16:04:21 [vinod]
wow - look at rbm
16:04:39 [davb]
cool!
16:04:58 [vinod]
davb: i like the new "get-to-know-dave" weblog!
16:05:34 [vinod]
now, i can stop reloading badgertronics.com every 10 seconds
16:05:40 [rbm]
ß/ø + þµ
16:05:46 [jim]
2c3o4l5o7r
16:05:51 [vinod]
whoa
16:05:53 [rbm]
GNO! No color!
16:05:57 [rbm]
:)
16:05:59 [jim]
sorry :)
16:07:29 [davb]
thanks vinod!
16:07:30 [davb]
heh
16:08:12 [davb]
I am going to add alot more links to the other sections and then add categories for everything.
16:08:22 [davb]
then hopefully I can find something when I am looking for it.
16:08:37 [rbm]
I need to convert my PotsgreSQL Cookbook to OACS 4 and then will move my site to it.
16:08:45 [davb]
cool.
16:08:56 [rbm]
what's your site again davb? I want to take another peak
16:09:05 [davb]
http://www.thedesignexperience.org
16:09:35 [davb]
also I need to add comments. but I am waiting until the bboard/comments acs-messaging mess is fixed.
16:09:54 [vinod]
oh... did your comment get deleted after 24 hrs?
16:10:15 [davb]
no. only if you have bboard installed. it assumes it owns all acs_message type content.
16:10:31 [vinod]
ahhh
16:10:54 [davb]
the package should be checking to make sure it owns the content before deleting it. and g-c should probably have its own type subtyped off content-revision anyway.
16:11:41 [vinod]
acs-message is messed up that way too, because it doesn't let you call acs_message__new with a different object_type. it automatically inserts 'acs_message'
16:12:07 [davb]
that is because noone understood the CR.
16:13:50 [rbm]
davb: This weblog is ETP?
16:13:54 [vinod]
markd2: you use SuSE, right?
16:13:56 [davb]
rbm: yes.
16:14:01 [rbm]
davb: cool
16:14:15 [markd2]
vinod: yep
16:14:48 [vinod]
is there a utility that does what chkconfig does on RH or update-rc.d on Debian (i.e. update the rc.d files)?
16:15:01 [markd2]
update?
16:15:05 [davb]
I had to dig into the etp procs to build the home page. I would rather have a portal type thing so I can ask a package for some content to add in a box instead of custom queries.
16:15:18 [jim]
yast?
16:15:23 [davb]
bbiab
16:15:39 [rbm]
Anybody knows how's th portal package doing?
16:15:46 [vinod]
markd2: like if you install a postgres startup script into /etc/rc.d/init.d, can you automatically link it from the appropriate rc[0-6].d directories
16:15:55 [vinod]
or do you have to make manual symlinks
16:16:10 [rbm]
vinod: There's rcconf on Debian too.
16:16:24 [markd2]
that I don't know
16:16:24 [jim]
suse is kinda strange... I forget where it puts things
16:16:37 [vinod]
rbm: thanks - haven't used that
16:16:39 [markd2]
I'm pretty much a hack-and-slasher since I use Weird Software
16:16:52 [jim]
one thing I liked about suse is /etc/rc.config
16:16:57 [vinod]
ok - just wondering :-)
16:17:04 [jim]
it'
16:17:15 [jim]
it's -everything- in one fiel
16:24:18 [rbm]
everything what?
16:40:33 [denshi]
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16:48:30 [rbm]
http://www.fogcreek.com/CityDesk/
16:48:31 [chump]
B: http://www.fogcreek.com/CityDesk/ from rbm
16:48:46 [rbm]
B:|Content-Management through a desktop app.
16:48:46 [chump]
titled item B
16:49:02 [rbm]
B:An interesting idea for a desktop-version of ETP
16:49:02 [chump]
commented item B
16:56:06 [rbm]
Cool, an IE 5.5 and above bug that lets anyone run any program on the client's box without ActiveScript.
16:57:36 [markd2]
yay!
16:57:41 [markd2]
progress!
16:58:01 [markd2]
soon the advance of Microsoft Technology will allow systems to be exploited without them ever being connected to the internet
17:00:09 [rbm]
http://security.greymagic.com/adv/gm001-ie/
17:00:10 [chump]
C: http://security.greymagic.com/adv/gm001-ie/ from rbm
17:00:22 [rbm]
C:|IE 5.5 and superior bug
17:00:22 [chump]
titled item C
17:33:35 [davb]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004DY&topic_id=11&topic=
17:33:38 [davb]
+OpenACS
17:33:39 [chump]
D: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004DY&topic_id=11&topic= from davb
17:33:39 [vinod]
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17:33:39 [davb]
argh
17:33:57 [davb]
D: "But most importantly, the Java community is almost TOO big. Its full of good
17:33:58 [davb]
ideas, good startpoints and lots of clever people doing their 'thing'.
17:33:58 [davb]
Unfortunately I did find that it lacks coordination and too much software is
17:33:58 [davb]
re-inventing wheels, or just never really gets finished.
17:33:58 [chump]
commented item D
17:34:01 [davb]
argh again
17:34:08 [markd2]
heh
17:34:10 [davb]
i hate invisible CRs
17:34:16 [davb]
anyway, that is a great quote
17:35:01 [markd2]
who said that?
17:35:03 [davb]
D: [correct link|http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0004DY&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS]
17:35:04 [chump]
commented item D
17:35:40 [davb]
D: " But most importantly, the Java community is almost TOO big. Its full of good ideas, good startpoints and lots of clever people doing their 'thing'. Unfortunately I did find that it lacks coordination and too much software is re-inventing wheels, or just never really gets finished."
17:35:40 [chump]
commented item D
17:35:51 [davb]
I have to see if aaronsw ever made chump editable.
17:36:50 [davb]
back to the death-march for me...
17:37:02 [hazmat]
otoh, they have libraries for everything under the sun ;)
17:37:04 [markd2]
GET TO WORK SLAVE!!!!!
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18:05:13 [hazmat]
paje: seen k2pts
18:05:14 [rbm]
* rbm goes to class
18:05:15 [paje]
k2pts was last seen on #openacs 21 hours, 55 minutes and 0 seconds ago, saying: Check the openfts-general mailing list for some discussion between zope's indexing/search and openfts...I'm sorry I can't stay and continue this discussion, later Kapil [Tue Mar 5 13:12:15 2002]
18:09:58 [denshi]
that
18:10:21 [denshi]
markd2: you have an excellent slave-driver voice.
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18:36:45 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] Hey everyone, please bear with us while we get things sorted out. Apparently, some of our hubs have lost connectivity in numerous geographic locations. Not sure what the deal is, but we're working on it. We'll give more information as it becomes available. We appreciate your understanding, and as always thank you for using Open Projects.
18:38:39 [denshi]
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18:46:27 [k2pts]
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18:49:01 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] Okay, most of the servers and all are back up now. A few hubs have lost connectivity, as well as a few normal servers, and unfortunately services. It looks like the possibility of a few backbone providers having a few lines cut, though I'm not completely sure on that.
18:49:46 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] Anyway, we're still working on it, though the stability will have hopefully returned for now. Again, we really appreciate your understanding in this matter, as well as your patronage for the Open Projects Network.
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18:51:49 [ChanServ]
[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
18:56:48 [MysticOne]
[GlobalNotice] Okay, last one unless anything else pops up. Services are back and looks like we're in business. Though we couldn't have forseen it, apologies for the interruption in services. Every have a great day! :)
18:58:15 [k2pts]
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19:12:47 [talli]
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19:13:32 [talli]
ignore me. i'm just a bot.
19:14:37 [talli]
* talli the bot feels lonely now
19:19:31 [k2pts]
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19:21:01 [hazmat]
hi k2pts
19:21:10 [k2pts]
hey hazmat
19:21:17 [markd2]
be sure to ignore talli
19:21:19 [markd2]
he's just a bot
19:21:42 [talli]
* talli the bot duly notes markd2's bot compliance
19:21:53 [talli]
talli is now known as tallithebot
19:21:59 [markd2]
* markd2 is a certified bot ignoramous
19:28:39 [davb]
hi k2pts
19:28:46 [k2pts]
hey davb
19:28:49 [k2pts]
what's up?
19:30:21 [davb]
still on data conversion death march :)
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19:31:00 [tallithebot]
* tallithebot duly notes that davb is on MS Access death march
19:31:42 [denshi]
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19:33:00 [denshi]
oh cool, talli has been replaced by a bot. That should improve his efficiency notably.
19:34:28 [tallithebot]
* tallithebot duly notes that next time denshi is seen by the benevolent and magnificent Talli the Human, denshi will get a kick in the youknowwhats
19:34:54 [davb]
* davb though Talli had subcontracted out such work to shagster
19:35:43 [denshi]
tallithebot, are you 'fully functional'?
19:35:52 [davb]
has anyone ever used wp2html?
19:37:08 [tallithebot]
* tallithebot duly notes davb facetious tone
19:37:53 [davb]
or anything else to convert word to html?
19:38:52 [tallithebot]
* tallithebot is putting denshi's inquiries through the middle-finger filter
19:39:53 [tallithebot]
* tallithebot dumps core
19:39:56 [tallithebot]
tallithebot is now known as talli
19:44:01 [davb]
wow, photo.net is everywhere
19:44:03 [davb]
ould like us to find images for them, we do so, and then present
19:44:03 [davb]
the mockups to them within the designed piece. If they like the images we
19:44:03 [davb]
chose, then we inform the client of the amount and then bill them upon
19:44:04 [davb]
approval.
19:44:07 [davb]
oops
19:44:15 [davb]
http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/word.html
19:44:15 [chump]
E: http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/word.html from davb
19:44:31 [davb]
E:|Converting Word to HTML, some good stuff in the comments at the end
19:44:32 [chump]
titled item E
19:46:46 [davb]
http://www.wvware.com/#wv
19:46:46 [chump]
F: http://www.wvware.com/#wv from davb
19:46:58 [davb]
F:|wvhtml - convert word files to html
19:46:59 [chump]
titled item F
19:47:29 [davb]
F:[wvWare|http://www.wvware.com/]
19:47:29 [chump]
commented item F
19:47:41 [davb]
F: "wv is a library which allows access to Microsoft Word files. It can load and parse Word 2000, 97, 95 and 6 file formats. (These are the file formats known internally as Word 9, 8, 7 and 6.) There is some support for reading earlier formats as well: Word 2 docs are converted to plaintext.
19:47:41 [chump]
commented item F
19:52:25 [k2pts]
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20:21:47 [davb]
cool.
20:21:55 [davb]
F: available as wv debian package
20:21:55 [chump]
commented item F
20:24:22 [davb]
F: maybe is this works, it will be nice to add to ETP to add word files as pages.
20:24:23 [chump]
commented item F
20:25:33 [davb]
wv is a library which allows access to Microsoft Word files. It can load and parse Word 2000, 97, 95 and 6 file formats. (These are the file formats known internally as Word 9, 8, 7 and 6.) There is some support for reading earlier formats as well: Word 2 docs are converted to plaintext.
20:25:35 [davb]
argh
20:25:45 [davb]
http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/
20:25:45 [chump]
G: http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ from davb
20:25:49 [davb]
G:|HTML Tidy
20:25:49 [chump]
titled item G
20:26:07 [davb]
G: nicely cleans up Word files exported as HTML
20:26:07 [chump]
commented item G
21:24:05 [davb]
bye
21:24:07 [davb]
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22:17:38 [talli]
rbm, you there?
22:22:20 [rbm]
hey talli
22:22:22 [rbm]
what's up?
22:22:43 [talli]
hey, would you mind emailing me your /etc/apt/sources-list file?
22:22:59 [talli]
i'm having some issues with mine. and i can't find a good sid one on the net that doesn't reference polish servers
22:23:16 [rbm]
talli: sure
22:23:25 [rbm]
address?
22:23:29 [talli]
talli@museatech.net
22:23:30 [talli]
thanks
22:27:42 [k2pts]
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22:27:46 [rbm]
talli: sent
22:27:54 [talli]
thanks!
22:28:21 [rbm]
np
22:29:32 [talli]
ah!!!
22:29:36 [talli]
i think i know my problem
22:29:46 [talli]
is it better to use unstable than sid in the line?
22:29:55 [talli]
brb
22:33:04 [rbm]
It doesn't matter really.
22:33:28 [rbm]
"sid" is just a symlink to 'unstable' (or the other way around, can't remember)
22:33:51 [talli]
thanks for the MIT link, rbm!!!! it's awesome!!!!
22:34:08 [rbm]
yeah, lyre.mit is really fast
22:35:12 [rbm]
* rbm does some WimpyAction (tm) as he writes his presentation on Linux Printing for tonight's LUG meeting in WimpyPoint.
22:36:17 [talli]
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22:40:59 [talli]
hello?
22:41:08 [rbm]
hi r00t
22:41:11 [talli]
hey
22:41:16 [talli]
ah... free software
22:41:27 [talli]
now if i can only figure out how to make most of it work like i want it to....
22:41:39 [rbm]
talli: get out and reconnect as a regular user.
22:41:45 [talli]
whoops
22:43:08 [talli]
how do you know i'm logged in as root/
22:43:09 [talli]
?
22:43:50 [rbm]
*#* talli (~root@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined channel #openacs
22:43:55 [talli]
haha
22:43:56 [talli]
whoops
22:43:59 [talli]
ok...
22:44:19 [talli]
the problem is, and i'm embarrassed to admit this, i have no fscking idea how to log out of windowmaker
22:44:50 [talli]
maybe that was it... no
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22:45:41 [rbm]
hit F12 or right mouse click
22:46:21 [ChanServ]
[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
23:08:59 [talli]
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23:09:09 [talli]
i'm back!
23:09:47 [rbm]
welcome
23:09:58 [talli]
i even managed to get KDE to work
23:11:10 [rbm]
good
23:20:15 [talli]
rbm: do you have any suggesiton for a nice GUI scp client?
23:23:02 [rbm]
hmm, I never used one.
23:23:09 [rbm]
I'm sure there might be one out there
23:23:23 [rbm]
I heard of one for windows a while ago\
23:24:04 [talli]
i found a gnome applet
23:25:09 [talli]
how does one figure out what a deb package's name is in order to apt-get it?
23:27:46 [rbm]
apt-cache search foo
23:28:04 [talli]
ah, awesome!
23:28:34 [rbm]
packages.debian.org gives you a web interface when you want to show off
23:29:16 [talli]
:)
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23:40:20 [talli]
denshi howth doth itth goeth?
23:41:44 [rbm]
* rbm goes home
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