00:00:36 <chrismj> davb, well, now I'm getting  a page not found + search page when trying to look at yesterdays weblog page for oacs...
00:03:49 <davb> ah. yeah I made it pretty :)
00:04:01 <davb> I think the XML file that generates that page is broken.
00:04:21 <chrismj> cool. too bad that page is still not available. thanks for the update. :)
00:05:41 <chrismj> general question: I don't know what the status of the beta release is, but would it be safe to begin implementing a site pre-beta and then upgrade to full-beta without loss to data. 
00:05:57 <chrismj> i.e., are there still changes in data model etc. in the pipe?
00:10:57 <rbm> chrismj: You should be pretty safe.
00:11:38 <rbm> vinod: do you get a bunch of errors in db-api.xml?
00:12:05 <rbm> xml/kernel/db-api.xml:469: validity error: ID dbapi_nulls_and_bind_vars already defined
00:12:06 <rbm> <para><emphasis role="strong"><anchor id="dbapi_nulls_and_bind_vars"/>Nulls and
00:12:23 <rbm> I'm getting a bunch of these. One for every line where this <anchor.../> appears.
00:16:48 <davb> chrismj: I manaually created that file.
00:17:12 <davb> yeah! mozilla 0.9.8 for debian!
00:17:58 <chrismj> mozilla 0.9.8 rocks! check out tabbed browsing (or was that in 0.9.7 as well?)  I can't get ldap directory addressing to work from mail, though
00:19:22 <vinod> rbm: this is weird. i never noticed that before, but now i'm getting the same error. it looks like those anchors are defined in kernel/db-api.xml and developers-guide/db-apit.xml
00:20:02 <rbm> vinod: I wasn't getting those errors before either.
00:20:33 <davb> cd ..
00:20:35 <davb> oops
00:21:03 <jim> bash: oops: command not found
00:22:15 <jim> rbm: looked for your app earlier, didn't find it
00:22:42 <rbm> jim: I'm sorry.
00:23:20 <jim> don't be... if you want to wait, perhaps to learn more about debian culture or so, no problem with that
00:24:28 <rbm> jim: I think I'm ready. I'm half a deb that I'm building. I keep preempted by other tasks.
00:24:34 <rbm> ack
00:24:44 <rbm> s/a deb/way done with a deb/
00:25:07 <jim> cool :)
00:25:08 <rbm> That was doubly-ugly. s/keep/keep being/
00:26:03 <rbm> vinod: What do you think of these "Overview" pages that just have a phrase? I'm thinking of getting rid of them. 
00:26:50 <jim> look at it from your own pov: you're volunteering to help debian... any amount of time you can put into debian is fine
00:27:00 <vinod> rbm: yeah - if you can do it easily, otherwise i'd postpone it til after beta (I tried and had a little trouble doing it)
00:27:18 <rbm> oh
00:27:41 <vinod> i don't remember what trouble i had, though :-)
00:28:18 <rbm> SELECT problem FROM vinod_brain WHERE issue LIKE 'overview pages%';
00:28:47 <vinod> application has unexpectedly quit
00:29:34 <jim> wow, I didn't know mac wrote vinod_brain_sql_server :)
00:30:36 <vinod> haha
00:31:13 <davb> ok, I am tired of general comments. Time to scrap it and rewrite using acs-service-contract the the CR properly
00:34:06 <vinod> rbm: http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/anchor.html suggests that each anchor should be unique within a doc. but we can change them to <anchor id="kernel.dbapi...> and <anchor id="devguide.dbapi...">
00:34:57 <vinod> davb: is it that bad? ugh
00:35:31 <rbm> Yeah! my &version; trick worked!
00:35:37 <vinod> cool!
00:37:15 <davb> no, I just don't want to think about it :)
00:37:55 <vinod> heh - i know the feeling
00:39:06 <rbm> vinod: Do you know what <phrase> is for?
00:39:40 <davb> wtf? 
00:39:54 <davb> category field varchar(1000) on general_comments.
00:39:56 <vinod> aD was using it to mean <bold>, but in docbook i don't think it changes appearance at all.
00:40:14 <jim> davb: apparently never got used
00:40:50 <davb> yeah. icky.I will use the new magic category package that is yet to be built.
00:41:02 <davb> on the plus side general-comments does use on delete cascade :)
00:41:04 <rbm> The correct way to do bold is <emphasis role="bold"> afaik
00:41:14 <vinod> rbm: or role="strong"
00:41:21 <rbm> vinod: That's it.
00:41:40 <jim> given the size of that field, we can have categories the size of a Deep Thought...
00:42:03 <vinod> i changed some of these, but not all. i wouldn't worry about it now though (another post-beta thing) :-)
00:42:12 <vinod> update general_comments set category='this category is going to be for things. wait.... what was this category for again?"
00:42:24 <davb> heh
00:45:14 <vinod> alright, i gotta go to work.
00:45:20 <vinod> see ya!
00:45:23 <vinod> vinod has left #openacs
00:45:57 <rbm> The guys at aD wrote some crappy DocBook
00:46:27 <jim> they had just brought docbook in at that pt
00:47:22 <jim> which brings up a question, what's DocBook's role in openacs, if anything?
00:47:45 <markd2> vinod's a Doc.  it just sorta 'works'
00:47:49 <markd2> not to mention DocWolfBook
00:47:57 <rbm> All of OpenACS documentation is in DocBook, since the early days.
00:48:05 <rbm> markd2: :)
00:48:07 <jim> ahh
00:48:46 <jim> what flavor of docbook?
00:48:52 <rbm> In fact, I helped to convince aD to switch to DocBook, even provided some AIM help to Kapil(?)
00:49:01 <rbm> or whoever was taking care of their docs
00:49:35 <rbm> jim: 3.x is in Docbook SGML. The OpenACS 4.5 docs are in Docbook XML because we inherited a lot in that form from aD and it'd be painful to change.
00:52:53 <jim> is there advantage to either flavor other than amount of material in particular flavor?
00:54:43 <rbm> SGML tools are more mature. XML is buzzword-compliant.
01:17:15 <davb> I have an XML question.
01:17:32 <davb> should anything ever come before <?xml version="1.0"?> ?
01:17:45 <davb> I have some XML files with a !DOCTYPE at the top.
01:18:14 <rbm> hmmm, you got me there.
01:18:18 <davb> ok :)
01:18:34 <rbm> I think that depends on the tool you're using. I'm not sure what the standard says.
01:19:43 <davb> actually they don't have an <?xml> at all!
01:19:45 <davb> hmmmm.
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01:39:53 <markd2> is there an html-4 equivalent of the 'strike' tag?
01:40:07 <markd2> a validator is giving me grief over it, but doesn't suggest an alternative
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01:47:12 <davb> markd2: I think maybe its a CSS style... hang on
01:48:25 <markd2> thanks
01:48:26 <markd2> davb++
01:50:02 <davb> text-decoration: line-through;
01:50:30 <davb> let me get the exact syntax to specify it
01:50:33 <markd2> sweet
01:50:48 <rbm> WTH?
01:50:55 <markd2> ?
01:50:57 <rbm> ah, nm
01:51:59 <davb> you can do <span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> stuff</span> around each one... or create a class  in the <HEAD> and do <span class="classname">
01:52:19 <markd2> 10q
01:52:54 <davb> http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/
01:52:54 <chump> A: http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/ from davb
01:53:00 <davb> A:|Handy CSS Reference
01:53:00 <chump> titled item A
01:53:24 <rbm> Hmm, I've been looking for one of those for some time.
01:53:27 <rbm> * rbm bookmarks it
01:53:34 <rbm> thanks davb, you're the man!
01:53:37 <markd2> * markd2 borklogs it
01:54:57 <davb> I did google for "css properties" and its first. I would rather have a nice book, but I am cheap.
02:05:34 <rbm> * rbm invites #openacs'ers to visit http://openacs.org/doc/
02:05:51 <rbm> You'll be the first to see what will become the OpenACS Doc Central
02:05:57 <rbm> (speaking in MS-like jargon)
02:07:22 <davb> can you say OpenACS(tm)?
02:07:26 <davb> :)
02:07:37 <rbm> hehe. davb, so what did you think?
02:07:43 <rbm> s/did/do/
02:09:00 <davb> I am not sure. I think you actually CAN use tm but not (R) or something like that. Otherwise it looks good.
02:09:30 <markd2> (R) is a registered trademark that you can't just use
02:09:32 <markd2> I dunno about 'tm'
02:09:36 <markd2> (C) you can do all you want
02:10:01 <davb> rbm: are you going to have the package docs for the core packages linked from there also?
02:10:14 <davb> or maybe all the packages that live at openacs.org....
02:10:22 <rbm> davb: Yes.
02:10:26 <davb> cool.
02:25:56 <talli> hey guys
02:29:08 <davb> hi talli
02:34:56 <chrismj> davb: on your site, why did you dump the bboards? were you moving from oacs 3 to 4? is the group creating migration scripts as it goes along with oacs?
02:36:09 <davb> I am sure it would work fine. there were maybe 5 messages in the whole thing :)
02:36:24 <davb> I can always do it later. I saved the database.
02:37:37 <chrismj> you mean it would work fine--i.e. an upgrade script that exists, or just a general attempt at conversion (by hand?)
02:38:15 <davb> well I had maybe a half a dozen users, I could do it by hand. but I believe there are scripts to convert the bboards. talli?
02:38:35 <talli> yeah
02:38:41 <talli> there are scripts
02:38:44 <davb> ok.
02:38:49 <talli> they are in openacs.org/new-file-storage
02:38:53 <chrismj> just curious whether that's an integrated part of the conceived development process for oacs... :)
02:38:59 <chrismj> thanks!
02:39:05 <davb> cool.
02:42:48 <talli> rbm: i just responded to your docs post
02:44:58 <markd2> you shouldn't have called him that
02:45:17 <talli> i tried to stop, but my hands wouldn't listen
02:58:37 <davb> * davb is too tired to get RSS generation working tonight...
03:04:49 <davb> bye
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05:13:44 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
05:25:13 <rbm> talli: just responded to your response :)
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14:02:58 <jim> is there a list scrambler in tcl?
14:05:24 <jim> is there even a random number generator?
14:42:00 <davb> davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
14:44:44 <jim> heya davb
14:45:04 <jim> got a key signature drill going almost...
14:45:16 <davb> ok.
14:45:20 <davb> http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/tcl-api.adp#ns_rand
14:45:20 <jim> I just need a random number generator or a list scrambler
14:45:20 <chump> B: http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/tcl-api.adp#ns_rand from davb
14:45:28 <davb> B:| ns_rand 
14:45:28 <chump> titled item B
14:46:04 <davb> ah, music stuff...
14:46:09 <davb> :)
14:47:49 <jim> 12.233.187.5:9000/keysig-drill
14:48:18 <jim> right now it just renders a multirow I built in a .tcl
14:54:11 <jim> can you see it?
15:07:12 <davb> yep
15:22:20 <rbm> moo
15:29:11 <davb> hi rbm
15:30:08 <rbm> I think I'll convert my personal site to openacs-4 later today...
15:30:21 <rbm> I haven't done this yet for pure lack of time.
15:31:01 <rbm> Of course, this is dependant on how much time homework will take me to complete.
15:36:03 <rbm> * rbm wanders off for a bit
15:49:27 <davb> hmmm. chump still isn't updating.
15:50:28 <davb> oops. forgot to compile xslt support in nsxml
15:52:20 <davb> argh. 
15:52:30 <davb> if I am root. why can't I edit a file, it says its read only.
15:54:39 <davb> weird.
16:01:58 <jim> sounds like emacs and cvs
16:02:12 <jim> I got it working sorta :)
16:02:34 <jim> can you find the bug? :)
16:03:27 <rbm> bbl
16:07:46 <davb> jim: i don't see one :)
16:07:59 <jim> try a few more times...
16:08:01 <jim> you sure?
16:09:04 <jim> the bug is: it gives you a big ol whoppin hint as to which one is right :)
16:11:01 <jim> which browser you using/
16:11:03 <jim> ?
16:19:14 <davb> Mozilla 0.9.8 Linux (i see no hint)
16:19:28 <davb> is it the visited link color?
16:19:30 <jim> one of the links will be visited
16:19:34 <jim> yep
16:19:38 <davb> css?
16:19:45 <jim> no
16:19:51 <davb> a:link { color:blue}
16:19:58 <davb> a:visited {color:blue}
16:20:03 <davb> etc...
16:20:08 <davb> ?
16:20:16 <jim> that might be an idea :)
16:20:26 <jim> just for that one page
16:20:47 <jim> except wouldn't make sense if there are other links on the page
16:21:05 <jim> (like the navbar links)
16:21:35 <jim> but it will work for today... I can put it to bed
16:22:14 <jim> how would I set visited to blue inside the A tag itself?
16:25:32 <jim> * jim found that html 4 reference on the web...
16:25:52 <talli> everyone in this channel is a NERD!!!!
16:26:24 <davb> you can do .classname A:link .classname A:visited  and do <a href="" class=""> or just inline the style right in the A tags
16:26:40 <davb> uh, talli, you are in the channel, and this is a nerd channel :)
16:26:50 <talli> oh. right. sorry.
16:26:51 <davb> talli: do you watch Junkyard Wars?
16:26:59 <talli> no, i don't
16:27:10 <talli> i think i've seen it on the airplane once, though
16:27:14 <talli> an airplane
16:27:24 <talli> hey, i gotta jet. talk to you nerds when i get back
16:27:30 <davb> ok.
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17:10:09 <jim> that rocks :) buggone :)
17:13:45 <davb> I think that will even work on Netscape 4, but you probably should try it.
17:16:07 <jim> * jim forgets if he has ns4
17:17:36 <jim> no nsanything
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17:37:46 <Psychephylax> heh
17:37:56 <Psychephylax> Stupid CompUSA screwed up again
17:38:01 <Psychephylax> Advantage...Psyche
17:38:06 <Psychephylax> :-D
17:38:16 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax throws his 15lb bowling ball at markd2 
17:38:45 <davb> hi Psychephylax
17:38:50 <Psychephylax>                                                                       Hey dave
17:38:52 <Psychephylax> ack
17:38:55 <markd2> hey Psychephylax
17:38:56 <Psychephylax> my mouse moved
17:38:59 <Psychephylax> Hey hey guys ;)
17:39:11 <davb> * davb needs to build some shelves
17:39:12 <Psychephylax> http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/ball
17:39:13 <chump> C: http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/ball from Psychephylax
17:39:26 <Psychephylax> C: How to threaten bowling pins
17:39:26 <chump> commented item C
17:39:37 <Psychephylax> C:| The Messenger
17:39:37 <chump> titled item C
17:39:59 <Psychephylax> http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/padmod/
17:39:59 <chump> D: http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/padmod/ from Psychephylax
17:40:04 <Psychephylax> D:| What geeks do for fun
17:40:04 <chump> titled item D
17:40:29 <Psychephylax> D: Modded gamepad from green LED to red
17:40:29 <chump> commented item D
17:40:33 <Psychephylax> :)
17:41:22 <Psychephylax> So what did I miss?
17:47:13 <markd2> Vinod's interpretive dance
17:47:30 <markd2> Vinod is quite the ballet dancer
17:47:33 <markd2> vinod?
17:47:38 <markd2> paje, vinod?
17:47:39 <paje> i don't know, markd2
17:47:42 <markd2> page, Vinod?
17:47:46 <markd2> paje, Vinod?
17:47:47 <paje> markd2: wish i knew
17:47:56 <markd2> bummer.  we can't add facts?
17:53:42 <Psychephylax> heh
17:53:43 <Psychephylax> Damn it
17:53:45 <Psychephylax> I need pictures
17:53:46 <Psychephylax> :)
17:59:47 <markd2> I take it you were out for awhile?
17:59:56 <markd2> I got back from a 2 week vacating just a couple of days ago
18:00:02 <Psychephylax> heh
18:00:11 <Psychephylax> I've been stuck in the Bronx all last week
18:00:19 <Psychephylax> I have no time to even code
18:00:25 <Psychephylax> which means no sitting in front of my computer :(
18:00:29 <markd2> bummer
18:01:20 <Psychephylax> yeah
18:01:22 <Psychephylax> but that's ok
18:01:36 <Psychephylax> I will make about 60 hours overtime on this paycheck
18:01:40 <Psychephylax> mmmm....time and a half
18:01:44 <Psychephylax> So, to celebrate
18:01:53 <markd2> damn
18:01:54 <Psychephylax> 1. Bought a bowling ball (200$)
18:02:22 <Psychephylax> 2. Bought a new video card Radeon 8500 (150$ but they screwed up so it will be 99$)
18:02:29 <Psychephylax> 3. Joined a gym (144$)
18:03:00 <Psychephylax> I did set aside ~300$ for bowling ball and gym though so I'm good
18:09:02 <markd2> are all bowling balls that expensive?
18:39:01 <Psychephylax> nope
18:39:07 <Psychephylax> sorry...I wandered off again
18:39:18 <Psychephylax> The bowling ball was actually 140$
18:39:28 <Psychephylax> but the finger tip inserts were 15$ for 2
18:39:41 <Psychephylax> and then I got "PSYCHE" engraved on there
18:39:56 <Psychephylax> so that was 5$ more
18:40:00 <Psychephylax> and the tax
18:40:10 <Psychephylax> but I got a bowling bag as well
18:57:46 <denshi> denshi (toddg@linux128.ma.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs
18:58:11 <denshi> 'ello gentlemen
18:59:18 <Psychephylax> hello denshi 
19:04:07 <denshi> what's up with cvs access to openacs?
19:12:02 <denshi> oops - i fixed it.
19:19:44 <markd2> what was up with it?
19:20:34 <denshi> I didn't append the package name on cvs login.
19:20:40 <markd2> ah
19:20:43 <denshi> so I was denied.
19:22:05 <Psychephylax> must reboot
19:22:15 <Psychephylax> BSD and XP no like each other
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19:23:53 <denshi> markd2, are you running debian?
19:23:58 <markd2> SuSE
19:24:31 <denshi> * denshi grumbles
19:28:35 <denshi> one day I'm going to draw the complete graph of debian's dependency system.
19:28:57 <denshi> Then I'm going to be committed to an institution for the criminally insane.
19:28:59 <markd2> it'll probably be a complete graph, at that
19:29:22 <denshi> there are way too many cycles in this graph.
19:30:25 <denshi> okay, time to start a download so big the gods will notice us again.
19:30:28 <denshi> see ya.
19:30:56 <denshi> bbiaw
19:46:02 <markd2> http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/cheerios/cheerios.html
19:46:02 <chump> E: http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/cheerios/cheerios.html from markd2
19:46:09 <markd2> E:| length of cheerios in a box
19:46:09 <chump> titled item E
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21:58:21 <rafa> hi
22:00:32 <markd2> hello
22:02:18 <rafa> hi markd
22:02:33 <rafa> any news about the beta release?
22:03:09 <markd2> I have no idea
22:03:51 <rafa> uhm.. I was hoping to see it in the website today :-(
22:04:23 <markd2> it's still early-afternoon CA time, so maybe they're still working on it
22:04:57 <rafa> yes its true... is monday in Australia.. maybe I am just a bit ansious
22:18:38 <rbm> moo
22:49:05 <rbm> paje: seen vinod?
22:49:05 <paje> vinod was last seen on #openacs 22 hours, 3 minutes and 45 seconds ago, saying: see ya! [Sat Mar  2 17:47:20 2002]
22:49:12 <rbm> hmph
23:11:16 <rbm> * rbm upgrades to PostgreSQL 7.2
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23:54:34 <denshi> does anyone know where to find the source for ns_sha & ns_share?