IRC log of openacs on 2002-03-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:36 [chrismj]
davb, well, now I'm getting a page not found + search page when trying to look at yesterdays weblog page for oacs...
00:03:49 [davb]
ah. yeah I made it pretty :)
00:04:01 [davb]
I think the XML file that generates that page is broken.
00:04:21 [chrismj]
cool. too bad that page is still not available. thanks for the update. :)
00:05:41 [chrismj]
general question: I don't know what the status of the beta release is, but would it be safe to begin implementing a site pre-beta and then upgrade to full-beta without loss to data.
00:05:57 [chrismj]
i.e., are there still changes in data model etc. in the pipe?
00:10:57 [rbm]
chrismj: You should be pretty safe.
00:11:38 [rbm]
vinod: do you get a bunch of errors in db-api.xml?
00:12:05 [rbm]
xml/kernel/db-api.xml:469: validity error: ID dbapi_nulls_and_bind_vars already defined
00:12:06 [rbm]
<para><emphasis role="strong"><anchor id="dbapi_nulls_and_bind_vars"/>Nulls and
00:12:23 [rbm]
I'm getting a bunch of these. One for every line where this <anchor.../> appears.
00:16:48 [davb]
chrismj: I manaually created that file.
00:17:12 [davb]
yeah! mozilla 0.9.8 for debian!
00:17:58 [chrismj]
mozilla 0.9.8 rocks! check out tabbed browsing (or was that in 0.9.7 as well?) I can't get ldap directory addressing to work from mail, though
00:19:22 [vinod]
rbm: this is weird. i never noticed that before, but now i'm getting the same error. it looks like those anchors are defined in kernel/db-api.xml and developers-guide/db-apit.xml
00:20:02 [rbm]
vinod: I wasn't getting those errors before either.
00:20:33 [davb]
cd ..
00:20:35 [davb]
oops
00:21:03 [jim]
bash: oops: command not found
00:22:15 [jim]
rbm: looked for your app earlier, didn't find it
00:22:42 [rbm]
jim: I'm sorry.
00:23:20 [jim]
don't be... if you want to wait, perhaps to learn more about debian culture or so, no problem with that
00:24:28 [rbm]
jim: I think I'm ready. I'm half a deb that I'm building. I keep preempted by other tasks.
00:24:34 [rbm]
ack
00:24:44 [rbm]
s/a deb/way done with a deb/
00:25:07 [jim]
cool :)
00:25:08 [rbm]
That was doubly-ugly. s/keep/keep being/
00:26:03 [rbm]
vinod: What do you think of these "Overview" pages that just have a phrase? I'm thinking of getting rid of them.
00:26:50 [jim]
look at it from your own pov: you're volunteering to help debian... any amount of time you can put into debian is fine
00:27:00 [vinod]
rbm: yeah - if you can do it easily, otherwise i'd postpone it til after beta (I tried and had a little trouble doing it)
00:27:18 [rbm]
oh
00:27:41 [vinod]
i don't remember what trouble i had, though :-)
00:28:18 [rbm]
SELECT problem FROM vinod_brain WHERE issue LIKE 'overview pages%';
00:28:47 [vinod]
application has unexpectedly quit
00:29:34 [jim]
wow, I didn't know mac wrote vinod_brain_sql_server :)
00:30:36 [vinod]
haha
00:31:13 [davb]
ok, I am tired of general comments. Time to scrap it and rewrite using acs-service-contract the the CR properly
00:34:06 [vinod]
rbm: http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/anchor.html suggests that each anchor should be unique within a doc. but we can change them to <anchor id="kernel.dbapi...> and <anchor id="devguide.dbapi...">
00:34:57 [vinod]
davb: is it that bad? ugh
00:35:31 [rbm]
Yeah! my &version; trick worked!
00:35:37 [vinod]
cool!
00:37:15 [davb]
no, I just don't want to think about it :)
00:37:55 [vinod]
heh - i know the feeling
00:39:06 [rbm]
vinod: Do you know what <phrase> is for?
00:39:40 [davb]
wtf?
00:39:54 [davb]
category field varchar(1000) on general_comments.
00:39:56 [vinod]
aD was using it to mean <bold>, but in docbook i don't think it changes appearance at all.
00:40:14 [jim]
davb: apparently never got used
00:40:50 [davb]
yeah. icky.I will use the new magic category package that is yet to be built.
00:41:02 [davb]
on the plus side general-comments does use on delete cascade :)
00:41:04 [rbm]
The correct way to do bold is <emphasis role="bold"> afaik
00:41:14 [vinod]
rbm: or role="strong"
00:41:21 [rbm]
vinod: That's it.
00:41:40 [jim]
given the size of that field, we can have categories the size of a Deep Thought...
00:42:03 [vinod]
i changed some of these, but not all. i wouldn't worry about it now though (another post-beta thing) :-)
00:42:12 [vinod]
update general_comments set category='this category is going to be for things. wait.... what was this category for again?"
00:42:24 [davb]
heh
00:45:14 [vinod]
alright, i gotta go to work.
00:45:20 [vinod]
see ya!
00:45:23 [vinod]
vinod has left #openacs
00:45:57 [rbm]
The guys at aD wrote some crappy DocBook
00:46:27 [jim]
they had just brought docbook in at that pt
00:47:22 [jim]
which brings up a question, what's DocBook's role in openacs, if anything?
00:47:45 [markd2]
vinod's a Doc. it just sorta 'works'
00:47:49 [markd2]
not to mention DocWolfBook
00:47:57 [rbm]
All of OpenACS documentation is in DocBook, since the early days.
00:48:05 [rbm]
markd2: :)
00:48:07 [jim]
ahh
00:48:46 [jim]
what flavor of docbook?
00:48:52 [rbm]
In fact, I helped to convince aD to switch to DocBook, even provided some AIM help to Kapil(?)
00:49:01 [rbm]
or whoever was taking care of their docs
00:49:35 [rbm]
jim: 3.x is in Docbook SGML. The OpenACS 4.5 docs are in Docbook XML because we inherited a lot in that form from aD and it'd be painful to change.
00:52:53 [jim]
is there advantage to either flavor other than amount of material in particular flavor?
00:54:43 [rbm]
SGML tools are more mature. XML is buzzword-compliant.
01:17:15 [davb]
I have an XML question.
01:17:32 [davb]
should anything ever come before <?xml version="1.0"?> ?
01:17:45 [davb]
I have some XML files with a !DOCTYPE at the top.
01:18:14 [rbm]
hmmm, you got me there.
01:18:18 [davb]
ok :)
01:18:34 [rbm]
I think that depends on the tool you're using. I'm not sure what the standard says.
01:19:43 [davb]
actually they don't have an <?xml> at all!
01:19:45 [davb]
hmmmm.
01:23:05 [chump]
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01:39:53 [markd2]
is there an html-4 equivalent of the 'strike' tag?
01:40:07 [markd2]
a validator is giving me grief over it, but doesn't suggest an alternative
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01:47:12 [davb]
markd2: I think maybe its a CSS style... hang on
01:48:25 [markd2]
thanks
01:48:26 [markd2]
davb++
01:50:02 [davb]
text-decoration: line-through;
01:50:30 [davb]
let me get the exact syntax to specify it
01:50:33 [markd2]
sweet
01:50:48 [rbm]
WTH?
01:50:55 [markd2]
?
01:50:57 [rbm]
ah, nm
01:51:59 [davb]
you can do <span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> stuff</span> around each one... or create a class in the <HEAD> and do <span class="classname">
01:52:19 [markd2]
10q
01:52:54 [davb]
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/
01:52:54 [chump]
A: http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/ from davb
01:53:00 [davb]
A:|Handy CSS Reference
01:53:00 [chump]
titled item A
01:53:24 [rbm]
Hmm, I've been looking for one of those for some time.
01:53:27 [rbm]
* rbm bookmarks it
01:53:34 [rbm]
thanks davb, you're the man!
01:53:37 [markd2]
* markd2 borklogs it
01:54:57 [davb]
I did google for "css properties" and its first. I would rather have a nice book, but I am cheap.
02:05:34 [rbm]
* rbm invites #openacs'ers to visit http://openacs.org/doc/
02:05:51 [rbm]
You'll be the first to see what will become the OpenACS Doc Central
02:05:57 [rbm]
(speaking in MS-like jargon)
02:07:22 [davb]
can you say OpenACS(tm)?
02:07:26 [davb]
:)
02:07:37 [rbm]
hehe. davb, so what did you think?
02:07:43 [rbm]
s/did/do/
02:09:00 [davb]
I am not sure. I think you actually CAN use tm but not (R) or something like that. Otherwise it looks good.
02:09:30 [markd2]
(R) is a registered trademark that you can't just use
02:09:32 [markd2]
I dunno about 'tm'
02:09:36 [markd2]
(C) you can do all you want
02:10:01 [davb]
rbm: are you going to have the package docs for the core packages linked from there also?
02:10:14 [davb]
or maybe all the packages that live at openacs.org....
02:10:22 [rbm]
davb: Yes.
02:10:26 [davb]
cool.
02:25:56 [talli]
hey guys
02:29:08 [davb]
hi talli
02:34:56 [chrismj]
davb: on your site, why did you dump the bboards? were you moving from oacs 3 to 4? is the group creating migration scripts as it goes along with oacs?
02:36:09 [davb]
I am sure it would work fine. there were maybe 5 messages in the whole thing :)
02:36:24 [davb]
I can always do it later. I saved the database.
02:37:37 [chrismj]
you mean it would work fine--i.e. an upgrade script that exists, or just a general attempt at conversion (by hand?)
02:38:15 [davb]
well I had maybe a half a dozen users, I could do it by hand. but I believe there are scripts to convert the bboards. talli?
02:38:35 [talli]
yeah
02:38:41 [talli]
there are scripts
02:38:44 [davb]
ok.
02:38:49 [talli]
they are in openacs.org/new-file-storage
02:38:53 [chrismj]
just curious whether that's an integrated part of the conceived development process for oacs... :)
02:38:59 [chrismj]
thanks!
02:39:05 [davb]
cool.
02:42:48 [talli]
rbm: i just responded to your docs post
02:44:58 [markd2]
you shouldn't have called him that
02:45:17 [talli]
i tried to stop, but my hands wouldn't listen
02:58:37 [davb]
* davb is too tired to get RSS generation working tonight...
03:04:49 [davb]
bye
03:04:51 [davb]
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05:13:44 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
05:25:13 [rbm]
talli: just responded to your response :)
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14:02:58 [jim]
is there a list scrambler in tcl?
14:05:24 [jim]
is there even a random number generator?
14:42:00 [davb]
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14:44:44 [jim]
heya davb
14:45:04 [jim]
got a key signature drill going almost...
14:45:16 [davb]
ok.
14:45:20 [davb]
http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/tcl-api.adp#ns_rand
14:45:20 [jim]
I just need a random number generator or a list scrambler
14:45:20 [chump]
B: http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/tcl-api.adp#ns_rand from davb
14:45:28 [davb]
B:| ns_rand
14:45:28 [chump]
titled item B
14:46:04 [davb]
ah, music stuff...
14:46:09 [davb]
:)
14:47:49 [jim]
12.233.187.5:9000/keysig-drill
14:48:18 [jim]
right now it just renders a multirow I built in a .tcl
14:54:11 [jim]
can you see it?
15:07:12 [davb]
yep
15:22:20 [rbm]
moo
15:29:11 [davb]
hi rbm
15:30:08 [rbm]
I think I'll convert my personal site to openacs-4 later today...
15:30:21 [rbm]
I haven't done this yet for pure lack of time.
15:31:01 [rbm]
Of course, this is dependant on how much time homework will take me to complete.
15:36:03 [rbm]
* rbm wanders off for a bit
15:49:27 [davb]
hmmm. chump still isn't updating.
15:50:28 [davb]
oops. forgot to compile xslt support in nsxml
15:52:20 [davb]
argh.
15:52:30 [davb]
if I am root. why can't I edit a file, it says its read only.
15:54:39 [davb]
weird.
16:01:58 [jim]
sounds like emacs and cvs
16:02:12 [jim]
I got it working sorta :)
16:02:34 [jim]
can you find the bug? :)
16:03:27 [rbm]
bbl
16:07:46 [davb]
jim: i don't see one :)
16:07:59 [jim]
try a few more times...
16:08:01 [jim]
you sure?
16:09:04 [jim]
the bug is: it gives you a big ol whoppin hint as to which one is right :)
16:11:01 [jim]
which browser you using/
16:11:03 [jim]
?
16:19:14 [davb]
Mozilla 0.9.8 Linux (i see no hint)
16:19:28 [davb]
is it the visited link color?
16:19:30 [jim]
one of the links will be visited
16:19:34 [jim]
yep
16:19:38 [davb]
css?
16:19:45 [jim]
no
16:19:51 [davb]
a:link { color:blue}
16:19:58 [davb]
a:visited {color:blue}
16:20:03 [davb]
etc...
16:20:08 [davb]
?
16:20:16 [jim]
that might be an idea :)
16:20:26 [jim]
just for that one page
16:20:47 [jim]
except wouldn't make sense if there are other links on the page
16:21:05 [jim]
(like the navbar links)
16:21:35 [jim]
but it will work for today... I can put it to bed
16:22:14 [jim]
how would I set visited to blue inside the A tag itself?
16:25:32 [jim]
* jim found that html 4 reference on the web...
16:25:52 [talli]
everyone in this channel is a NERD!!!!
16:26:24 [davb]
you can do .classname A:link .classname A:visited and do <a href="" class=""> or just inline the style right in the A tags
16:26:40 [davb]
uh, talli, you are in the channel, and this is a nerd channel :)
16:26:50 [talli]
oh. right. sorry.
16:26:51 [davb]
talli: do you watch Junkyard Wars?
16:26:59 [talli]
no, i don't
16:27:10 [talli]
i think i've seen it on the airplane once, though
16:27:14 [talli]
an airplane
16:27:24 [talli]
hey, i gotta jet. talk to you nerds when i get back
16:27:30 [davb]
ok.
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17:10:09 [jim]
that rocks :) buggone :)
17:13:45 [davb]
I think that will even work on Netscape 4, but you probably should try it.
17:16:07 [jim]
* jim forgets if he has ns4
17:17:36 [jim]
no nsanything
17:19:05 [markd2]
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17:37:46 [Psychephylax]
heh
17:37:56 [Psychephylax]
Stupid CompUSA screwed up again
17:38:01 [Psychephylax]
Advantage...Psyche
17:38:06 [Psychephylax]
:-D
17:38:16 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax throws his 15lb bowling ball at markd2
17:38:45 [davb]
hi Psychephylax
17:38:50 [Psychephylax]
Hey dave
17:38:52 [Psychephylax]
ack
17:38:55 [markd2]
hey Psychephylax
17:38:56 [Psychephylax]
my mouse moved
17:38:59 [Psychephylax]
Hey hey guys ;)
17:39:11 [davb]
* davb needs to build some shelves
17:39:12 [Psychephylax]
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/ball
17:39:13 [chump]
C: http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/ball from Psychephylax
17:39:26 [Psychephylax]
C: How to threaten bowling pins
17:39:26 [chump]
commented item C
17:39:37 [Psychephylax]
C:| The Messenger
17:39:37 [chump]
titled item C
17:39:59 [Psychephylax]
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/padmod/
17:39:59 [chump]
D: http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/padmod/ from Psychephylax
17:40:04 [Psychephylax]
D:| What geeks do for fun
17:40:04 [chump]
titled item D
17:40:29 [Psychephylax]
D: Modded gamepad from green LED to red
17:40:29 [chump]
commented item D
17:40:33 [Psychephylax]
:)
17:41:22 [Psychephylax]
So what did I miss?
17:47:13 [markd2]
Vinod's interpretive dance
17:47:30 [markd2]
Vinod is quite the ballet dancer
17:47:33 [markd2]
vinod?
17:47:38 [markd2]
paje, vinod?
17:47:39 [paje]
i don't know, markd2
17:47:42 [markd2]
page, Vinod?
17:47:46 [markd2]
paje, Vinod?
17:47:47 [paje]
markd2: wish i knew
17:47:56 [markd2]
bummer. we can't add facts?
17:53:42 [Psychephylax]
heh
17:53:43 [Psychephylax]
Damn it
17:53:45 [Psychephylax]
I need pictures
17:53:46 [Psychephylax]
:)
17:59:47 [markd2]
I take it you were out for awhile?
17:59:56 [markd2]
I got back from a 2 week vacating just a couple of days ago
18:00:02 [Psychephylax]
heh
18:00:11 [Psychephylax]
I've been stuck in the Bronx all last week
18:00:19 [Psychephylax]
I have no time to even code
18:00:25 [Psychephylax]
which means no sitting in front of my computer :(
18:00:29 [markd2]
bummer
18:01:20 [Psychephylax]
yeah
18:01:22 [Psychephylax]
but that's ok
18:01:36 [Psychephylax]
I will make about 60 hours overtime on this paycheck
18:01:40 [Psychephylax]
mmmm....time and a half
18:01:44 [Psychephylax]
So, to celebrate
18:01:53 [markd2]
damn
18:01:54 [Psychephylax]
1. Bought a bowling ball (200$)
18:02:22 [Psychephylax]
2. Bought a new video card Radeon 8500 (150$ but they screwed up so it will be 99$)
18:02:29 [Psychephylax]
3. Joined a gym (144$)
18:03:00 [Psychephylax]
I did set aside ~300$ for bowling ball and gym though so I'm good
18:09:02 [markd2]
are all bowling balls that expensive?
18:39:01 [Psychephylax]
nope
18:39:07 [Psychephylax]
sorry...I wandered off again
18:39:18 [Psychephylax]
The bowling ball was actually 140$
18:39:28 [Psychephylax]
but the finger tip inserts were 15$ for 2
18:39:41 [Psychephylax]
and then I got "PSYCHE" engraved on there
18:39:56 [Psychephylax]
so that was 5$ more
18:40:00 [Psychephylax]
and the tax
18:40:10 [Psychephylax]
but I got a bowling bag as well
18:57:46 [denshi]
denshi (toddg@linux128.ma.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs
18:58:11 [denshi]
'ello gentlemen
18:59:18 [Psychephylax]
hello denshi
19:04:07 [denshi]
what's up with cvs access to openacs?
19:12:02 [denshi]
oops - i fixed it.
19:19:44 [markd2]
what was up with it?
19:20:34 [denshi]
I didn't append the package name on cvs login.
19:20:40 [markd2]
ah
19:20:43 [denshi]
so I was denied.
19:22:05 [Psychephylax]
must reboot
19:22:15 [Psychephylax]
BSD and XP no like each other
19:22:17 [Psychephylax]
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19:23:53 [denshi]
markd2, are you running debian?
19:23:58 [markd2]
SuSE
19:24:31 [denshi]
* denshi grumbles
19:28:35 [denshi]
one day I'm going to draw the complete graph of debian's dependency system.
19:28:57 [denshi]
Then I'm going to be committed to an institution for the criminally insane.
19:28:59 [markd2]
it'll probably be a complete graph, at that
19:29:22 [denshi]
there are way too many cycles in this graph.
19:30:25 [denshi]
okay, time to start a download so big the gods will notice us again.
19:30:28 [denshi]
see ya.
19:30:56 [denshi]
bbiaw
19:46:02 [markd2]
http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/cheerios/cheerios.html
19:46:02 [chump]
E: http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/cheerios/cheerios.html from markd2
19:46:09 [markd2]
E:| length of cheerios in a box
19:46:09 [chump]
titled item E
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21:58:08 [rafa]
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21:58:21 [rafa]
hi
22:00:32 [markd2]
hello
22:02:18 [rafa]
hi markd
22:02:33 [rafa]
any news about the beta release?
22:03:09 [markd2]
I have no idea
22:03:51 [rafa]
uhm.. I was hoping to see it in the website today :-(
22:04:23 [markd2]
it's still early-afternoon CA time, so maybe they're still working on it
22:04:57 [rafa]
yes its true... is monday in Australia.. maybe I am just a bit ansious
22:18:38 [rbm]
moo
22:49:05 [rbm]
paje: seen vinod?
22:49:05 [paje]
vinod was last seen on #openacs 22 hours, 3 minutes and 45 seconds ago, saying: see ya! [Sat Mar 2 17:47:20 2002]
22:49:12 [rbm]
hmph
23:11:16 [rbm]
* rbm upgrades to PostgreSQL 7.2
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jabba__ (~jabba@adsl-64-123-14-180.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
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markd2 has quit ("pie")
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denshi (toddg@linux128.ma.utexas.edu) has joined #openacs
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23:54:34 [denshi]
does anyone know where to find the source for ns_sha & ns_share?