00:00:09 mod_aolserver is basically a cheap imitation of AOLserver that plugs into apache 00:00:12 denshi's right 00:00:32 but when apache2 reaches a point on non-suckitude, then the network effects of popularity become paramount. 00:00:38 is Apache2 solving those issues for you? 00:00:44 not yet 00:01:06 what the hell is apache2? is it a java server? is it a houseboat? 00:01:08 where do you want OACS to be in a year from now? 00:01:30 apache2 right now has the ability to act just like aolserver. After you add some stuff to it. But, for instance, apache2 is threaded, so it isn't hamstrung like apache1. 00:01:43 so, yes, apache2 right now could host oacs4 correctly. 00:01:57 denshi, how hard is it to build the DB integration into apache2? 00:02:06 but part of the fun of aolserver is that the api is a small set of operations focused around what we need -- db pools, cache, adp, etc. 00:02:21 it's a very small api, so it's easy to work with. 00:02:28 apache2 right now is a monster. 00:02:47 denshi, you've worked with tux, right? 00:02:52 everyone who ever wrote something for apache1 is dicking with it. 00:03:02 talli: 1) easy, 2) yes. 00:03:24 well, for 1, is it worth looking into and for 2, how is that server? 00:04:09 but I predict that a year or so after apache2 hits release, they'll start cutting things back. I base this opinion on the apache group's previous record of releasing increasingly smaller and tighter 1.3.x versions. 00:04:29 on that count, the apache team is really cool. 00:05:25 so what would it take to build make apache2 a reasonable alternative to aolserver? 00:05:34 talli: 1) just look at the above. yes, it's worth looking into, but it's not really worth it until the morass clears. 00:05:56 ah, so the morass is so bad right now that you'd be firing at a moving target? 00:06:25 what do you think of tux? 00:06:30 very much so. and my point on api size is a very real concern. I think the first wave of apache2 users and admins will go to bed weeping after trying to tune it. 00:06:37 tux is hella cool. 00:06:52 it was written by a god like kernel hacker, ingo molnar, right? 00:06:54 and the latest 2.4 stable kernels just included that branch -- woo! 00:07:09 yup. mingo rules. 00:08:01 with tux, I quadrupled my simple file throughput over aolserver3.2. 00:08:15 and it's been a while since I did that. 00:08:15 I'm not surprised 00:08:25 whoa 00:08:32 a simple select loop server should beat aolserver X in simple file transfer 00:08:52 the tux xml-rpc is reaching release, too. 00:08:58 markd2 is right. 00:10:00 but it's still cool. I should dust off my notes and finish tying nsd to use tux as a proxy. caching semi-dynamic pages in tux would be rather sweet. 00:11:29 I'm reading comp.databases.theory ATM, and watching Joe Celko rip another pathetic java nerd a new hole. This is almost a sport. 00:11:56 so could tux be used as a front end to aolserver reasonably easily? 00:11:58 So it would be better to write a mod_fastcgi driver for AOLserver so it can run behind Apache2 or port OpenACS to apache2? 00:12:10 * rbm has no clue about apache2 but he has heard about the API mess 00:12:23 Don't they also have a mix of threads/processes ? 00:12:25 i have a question about that, rbm. 00:12:35 like, rather than using apache + fastcgi to get aolserver to use things like XML-RPC and webdav, does tux have some of those things and would it be easier to link the two servers? 00:12:46 do we know anyone who runs the apache, fastcgi, aolserver combo? 00:12:58 no, because fastcgi hasn't been built for aolserver 00:13:09 denshi: I think nobody so far. Petra Paler was the one wanting to do the fastcgi thingy 00:13:35 ok, i gotta go to dinner 00:13:42 i have a question about petru -- who is this guy? He's some kind of coding monster, from what I have seen. 00:13:43 see you guys tomorrow 00:13:47 by talli. 00:13:48 talli: I don't know how apache+fastcgi would give AOLserver webdav or xml-rpc 00:14:11 rbm: just by letting apache handle the xml-rpc and webdav interfaces 00:14:14 denshi: He's around. He looks like a good programmer, though I haven't seen much of his code. 00:14:22 talli: Hmm, okay. 00:14:49 * rbm is cooking some pressure-cooked meat. Yum! 00:15:02 ok, i gotta go. have a good night! 00:15:05 bye. 00:15:11 bye 00:15:17 I like talli's idea. 00:15:31 rbm: do we have any new docs on how to set up users/groups 00:15:40 talli has left #openacs 00:15:43 bye guys. 00:16:05 rafa: Hmm, not that I know of. 00:16:14 denshi has quit () 00:16:34 rafa: have you read "ACS 4 Permissions Tediously Explained"? 00:16:36 I asked in the bboard b'cause some peole (a lot) were kind of lost with the UI for groups 00:16:58 rbm: no, don't thinks so 00:17:15 rafa: Check new-file-storage on openacs.org. It's there. 00:17:21 It's mandatory reading. 00:17:31 brb. checking f00d 00:19:48 rbm: i'll have a look at it, but is more a developers guide. I am not writing a package 00:19:57 ah 00:20:05 my problems are more basic :-( 00:20:26 I am tryingto add users to a group. Users and already inthe system 00:20:45 but they don't show up in "add memebreship relation" 00:21:07 you know what I am talking about 00:21:09 ? 00:21:46 if you try to add them through user Profile you get an error 00:25:32 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 00:26:07 k2pts has left #openacs 00:32:26 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:35:29 hi davb 00:57:08 hi rafa 00:58:24 wow, my aolserver lgo is 143mb 01:01:57 uhoh. favicon.ico is screwing up the rp 01:03:06 oops. forgot load.sql 01:03:17 hmmm I installed it on the db before I dumped it. 01:04:55 ah. the relkov stuff is missing from my pg, I wonder why 01:19:57 aha. search is fixed! 01:21:53 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 01:22:04 paje: k2pts? 01:22:04 you are Neophytos Demetriou, one of the minds behind OpenACS-Search and other nifty stuff. 01:22:08 :) 01:22:18 who changed blah, blah, blah? 01:22:38 paje: no, k2pts is blah, blah, blah, blah :) 01:22:38 ...but k2pts is Neophytos Demetriou, one of the minds behind OpenACS-Search and other nifty stuff.... 01:22:59 paje: paje? 01:22:59 rumour has it i am the medicine man and oracle in Amazonian tribes. I'm also a recipient of church of mike's "full deal" package 01:23:16 paje: hazmat? 01:23:16 i heard hazmat was somebody that drinks often from the river lethe 01:23:26 paje: docwolf? 01:23:26 k2pts: i haven't a clue 01:23:37 paje: psychephylax? 01:23:37 paje: markd2? 01:23:37 i haven't a clue, k2pts 01:23:37 markd2: wish i knew 01:23:44 markd2 is a dork 01:23:46 hi k2pts! 01:23:46 markd2? 01:23:49 hey dave 01:23:56 hey markd2 01:24:13 k2d2 01:24:21 :) hey 01:24:29 http://www.thedesignexperience.org/search/ 01:24:29 A: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/search/ from davb 01:24:39 A:| Search the chump, now live 01:24:39 titled item A 01:26:16 lethe, is the greek river the dead drink from to forget their lives before they go to hades. 01:26:47 hazmat: hi, I miss the greek word for that 01:28:24 cancel that, it is the greek word. I was reading it wrong 01:29:27 now I just need to turn on RSS support for the weblog. 01:29:30 and redesign ETP 01:29:33 in Greek, truth is written as a-lethia (something that's not going to be forgotten) 01:30:12 davb: I was going to write rss support (for using feeds from other sites but things kept me busy all the time) 01:30:42 no problem. I might get around to it. I need it for the top-secret project. 01:30:59 you do? that's great... :) 01:31:40 in that case, I can forward you some stylesheets that I have found online plus the table definition for the channels... 01:31:53 sure. 01:31:57 thanks. 01:32:09 np, thank you :) 01:32:43 k2pts: I found a bug in acs-service-contract. I submitted a patch but there is no acs-sc package in the sdm. 01:35:55 I have seen the patch...it doesn't check the contract_name when deleting, right? 01:36:13 davb: email sent 01:36:24 right, also the signature was wrong (varchar,varchar) instead of (varchar,varchar,varchar) 01:36:27 cool. 01:37:03 there are some stylesheets from rss 0.9 to 1.0, from 1.0 to xhtml (and text) etc 01:37:36 you can see a small example in xsl.tcl/.adp 01:37:55 nifty. 01:41:41 have you tried it already? I was catching up with the email alerts 01:41:46 from the openacs forusm 01:42:03 no not yet. I am fixing the screw ups I made when I moved my site over to openacs 4 :) 01:42:12 ah ok 01:43:18 davb: the table definition (you 'll need to change objects to acs_objects). I was playing with the tree_sortkey mechanism when I started working on this one... 01:43:27 ok. 01:44:42 ah, fixed. 01:44:55 basically I added a whole bunch of new files, but forgot to cvs add them 01:46:10 til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 01:46:26 k2pts: you are saving entire RSS files and XSLing them to display? 01:47:12 the table you'll see is for storing metadata about a channel 01:47:16 right. 01:47:19 you'll need another table for the feeds 01:47:46 ok. but the plan was to store the xml right in the database? 01:47:52 the idea is pretty simple but it needs someone to spent some time to implement it 01:48:19 not necessarily, you can extract the stories and save them in a separate table 01:48:35 this will allow you to keep "good links", let me explain 01:48:43 ok 01:49:32 for example, you can rate channels (so you have an idea which channels are more interesting) but you could also have ratings on the stories from each channel. 01:49:53 aha. 01:49:56 the stories that are not likely to change 01:50:13 this should almost be a different pacakge than the one that collects the RSS feeds... 01:50:14 I think this was an element introduced in the last version of the RSS specification about that 01:50:23 yeap 01:50:27 ok. 01:50:35 let me give you some of my thoughts 01:50:56 it would take me just a few hours to implement something minimal but didn't had the time to get it going 01:51:56 the interval field is used to specify the refresh rate...this should be done using a scheduled proc... 01:52:38 if timeLastRefresh - timeLastChange is more than a week, you increase the interval 01:52:48 interval defaults to '1 hour' 01:53:30 the rest of the fields in the table are obvious, I think. Let me know if you have any questions about those... 01:53:44 a minimal ui would be 01:54:32 something that adds new channels...more sophisticated is to httpget userland's channels (available as an xml file) 01:55:28 to provide a list to pick from? 01:55:34 good idea. 01:55:46 exactly 01:55:58 you might also want to check out syndic8.com 01:56:15 right. I think they have a list of available channels. 01:56:19 sounds cool 01:57:02 the clumsy approach is to have a tcl proc that provides the feed as a multirow...a better approach is to use a-s-c but leave that for later (there's a reason I'm tellin you to do that for now) 01:57:18 ok. 01:57:37 Right, I figure it is better to get something working anyway. 01:57:47 the contract will be used to add new portlets on the new portals package... 01:57:54 ah, cool. 01:58:03 but once you have the basic functionality ready, we could add features together 01:58:08 hazmat has left #openacs 01:58:15 very good. 01:58:47 I could put some time on this one late next week (once I write the openfts documentation) 01:58:56 k2pts: is the plan to just keep the lastest items from a feed in the database? or archive them? 01:59:01 but if you have something ready by then it would be extremely helpful 01:59:26 I might be able to work on it, but I have a few other things I need to get going before. 01:59:27 I was going to mention an archived_p for each channel but then again I'm not so sure 01:59:32 ok 01:59:51 let me explain why not archived_p 02:01:12 http://www.thedesignexperience.org/ircblog 02:01:12 B: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/ircblog from davb 02:01:18 B: testing chump 02:01:18 commented item B 02:02:30 IIRC, I have not added an archived_p field since the new RSS specification requires that feed providers specify for how long some story will be available...therefore you could archive the stories link (which would happen automagically if a user chooses to bookmark it or if a moderator selects it as a featured item)....some of what I have just mentioned is not openacs functionality, just some ideas I have had about featuring items (think of it a 02:02:30 s general-features as in general-comments) 02:03:04 davb: have you created the www/global/notfound.adp file 02:03:05 that sounds good. 02:03:17 yes. it is just a search box for now. 02:03:35 paje has quit ("regrouping; bbiab") 02:03:53 I got a request error 02:04:01 hmmm. 02:04:26 me too. 02:05:39 ok 02:05:48 i know how to do it 02:07:33 weird: Error: GET /favicon.ico 02:07:33 while executing 02:07:33 "ad_raise notfound" 02:07:33 (procedure "rp_serve_abstract_file" line 32) 02:07:33 invoked from within 02:07:34 "rp_serve_abstract_file [acs_root_dir]/www/global/notfound.adp" 02:08:25 oops. 02:08:32 what's wrong? 02:08:33 my fault, I didn't commit the notfound.adp 02:08:40 :) 02:08:42 ok 02:09:44 much better 02:10:12 looks good 02:10:23 wanna a usability tip? 02:10:26 sure! 02:10:41 imho you should include the context bar as well 02:10:55 ok good idea. 02:11:22 I need to actually build tempaltes for everything except the home page :) 02:11:38 that way the user knows where he is approx, so he can backtract and search for the item he is looking for 02:12:10 so the context bar is built from whatever directory the missing item is in? 02:12:20 cool. 02:12:26 exactly 02:12:55 I really want to build an automatic navigation from the sitemap, but its very tricky. 02:13:05 not sure. 02:13:19 also, 02:13:19 I don't remember reading it in Don't Make Me Think. 02:14:08 what would be great (Lars I hope you're reading this) is have something similar to Lars keywords thing but within the context...for example 02:14:40 www.example.com/forums/that great post about ketchups 02:15:06 so you could search and provide search results from the forums with keywords "that great post about ketchups" 02:15:16 aha. cool. 02:15:22 note that you only search the forums 02:15:54 I was going to put something in the 404 page that looked for a referrer from google etc... and did an automatic search for the search terms. 02:16:21 this is the same thing, only simpler, just grab the bad part of the URL and it becomes the search terms. 02:16:34 that would be cool but I think Google doesn't allow automatic queries 02:17:25 What I mean is, I am breaking alot of URLs that google probably previously pointed to :) So if I grab the referrer string, I can parse the search they did at google, and stuff it into openfts. 02:18:34 sounds great 02:19:44 excellent. I got the chump XSL scheduled procs running in openacs 4. 02:19:59 dave, it's almost 4:30 in the morning here, have to get some sleep :) we talk later...let me know if you make any progress with the rss stuff 02:20:05 hey that sounds great 02:20:12 ok, good night (morning) 02:20:55 q: you mean: grab chump's rss feeds with a cheduled proc and display? 02:21:26 no, chump outputs XML, i convert it to HTML and RSS every 5 mins. 02:21:47 I should stuff it int he database :) 02:21:48 one final note: it's a bit tricky to get 0.9 xsl stylesheets to work for you since you have to transform 0.9->1.0->xhtml 02:22:20 ok. 02:22:39 I tried once and it was a PITA but it should work if you just take your time 02:22:58 anyway, dave, thanks again and we stay in touch 02:23:04 bye 02:23:15 k2pts has left #openacs 02:23:47 bye 02:23:48 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 02:31:53 talilee (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 02:43:23 http://www.brasileiro.net/photodb/photo.tcl?photo_id=73 02:43:23 C: http://www.brasileiro.net/photodb/photo.tcl?photo_id=73 from rbm 02:43:32 C:|December Icicles in Utah. 02:43:32 titled item C 02:47:09 Do you think this is a photo.net-worthy picture? 04:34:06 andyn has quit (Remote closed the connection) 05:03:10 rafa has quit ("[x]chat") 05:17:04 docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:40:17 markd2 has quit ("wheeeee") 06:43:25 heeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooo? heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooo? 06:56:39 helloooo ooooo oooo oooo ooo 06:56:44 hey rbm 06:56:49 'sup talli? 06:56:50 how are you this eve? 06:56:58 sick. full of homework :( 06:57:03 ugh 06:57:10 you gotta get out of that school thing 06:57:10 But, I'm happy. Gotta be, always! 06:57:12 it's no fun 06:57:27 always? we might not get a long.... 06:57:54 what was your homework tonight/ 06:57:55 ? 06:57:56 talilee: 2 more months for graduation, then 4 months of 'vacation' (my first in 10 years), then back to school. 06:58:13 whoof. where are you going on vacation? 06:58:23 talilee: No where :) I'll stay here 06:58:29 vacation from school :) 06:58:45 :) 06:58:58 masters in cs, i assume, when you get back? 06:59:14 We might go to Vegas since my parents are coming for my graduation. Not sure yet though. Ah, and I'll take them to Lava Hot Springs in Idaho, so I'll travel a little bit. 06:59:29 cool 06:59:50 talilee: I think so. A lot of people want me to do an MBA, but I'm not sure. Another prof in Biology wants me to do a bioinformatics masters with him. 07:00:08 neat 07:01:20 what are you leaning towards? 07:01:24 talilee is now known as talli 07:01:25 I'm not sure I know which direction to explore in my career. It'd be hard to leave bioinformatics if I did that masters, whereas a CS masters is more general. 07:01:36 ah, good point 07:02:30 I wish I could go to a better school, but $$ is tough. 07:03:00 yeah, that's understandable. but some master's program pay, don't they? 07:03:06 i think stanfrod pays for masters 07:03:09 USU does have some interesting projects happening in the CS field though. 07:03:37 talli: I'm sure I could get into a better school with a fellowship, but there's the cost of moving, finding a job to pay for rent, rent, etc. etc. 07:03:42 Schools don't pay for that. 07:04:16 ah, good point 07:04:33 Probably the rent of a basement apartment in Stanford is my entire month's salary 07:04:41 ugh 07:04:50 i think you may be right about that 07:05:16 i just got an email about how i can make some money by learning the secrets of the rich 07:05:18 I thought about getting a job so I can make some money, to later go back to school... 07:05:40 A friend of mine is working for HP and they will pay for his masters. 07:05:41 i think the secret is to talk about secrets that aren't really secrets since they been SPAMMED EVERYWHERE 07:05:54 However, nobody is hiring international folks, so I'm SOL 07:06:09 bummer 07:07:21 I can't go back to Brazil with only an undergrad. 07:07:35 is that what you eventually want to do? 07:07:47 I think so. 07:07:54 cool 07:08:02 are there many CS jobs in brazil? 07:09:29 talli: Not really. I'd probably have to put my own business. Everybody does VB or Delphi in Brazil. 07:09:49 do VB or Delphi run on Debian? ;) 07:10:06 Businesses pay an insane amount of taxes in Brazil though. If you pay it all you can't stay in business. It's just impossible. 07:10:23 Kylix does. VB I don't want to get close to. 07:10:42 what's kylix? 07:10:48 * rbm is reminded that he has to do his taxes again 07:11:17 kylix is Delphi for Linux. It's free (beer) if you are doing open source software even. 07:11:20 * talli is depressed because rbm reminded him he has to do his taxes again 07:11:36 * rbm intercepts talli's tax return on the mail 07:11:46 damn. again. 07:12:07 btw, i've been speaking with some guys at the FSF about the OACS and nonprofits 07:12:14 I heard that. 07:12:24 I was talking to one guy in #debian-br about .LRN 07:12:41 We really need better documentation and a batter website 07:12:44 one of the things they said was that they'd like to try and help get some developer work into the OACS community 07:12:46 s/batter/better 07:13:04 like, get someone to build evolution connectivity to OACS 07:13:06 The software is there, and it's great. 07:13:09 talli: OHHHH! 07:13:13 yeah 07:13:25 You know what would be cool? 07:13:36 my name in lights? 07:13:56 A way to sync OpenACS content with a desktop app. SOAP or XML-RPC or the sorts. 07:14:10 their goal is to see some consistency across various groupware apps like PHPgroupware and evolution 07:14:25 so DB apps in the free world can all interact reasonably well 07:14:43 maybe it's GPL.NET ;) 07:15:02 yeah, a way to sync OACS content with a desktop app would be cool 07:15:03 I was looking at this inventory tracker app that a friend wants to build. They'd have a site on the 'net where people could reserve stuff (it's a video game store), and the stores would have desktop apps that would sync with the website every night through dial-up 07:15:16 nice. 07:15:30 you may want to check with docwolf about inventory apps, though :) 07:15:35 why? 07:18:11 Python is so nice 07:18:18 ok, i need to go to bed before i eat anymore 07:18:29 yes, a good python web framework would be great 07:18:42 and, no hazmat, not zope 07:19:13 i've been receiving the daily digest from the webware community, though, and it's not so great 07:19:25 at least, not the same quality as OACS 07:19:38 I'm not familiar with webware 07:19:52 Wait, PyWX for AOLserver has a webware adaptor 07:20:01 yeah 07:20:07 You could probably tie to AOLserver.... hmmmm, tasty 07:20:13 http://webware.sourceforge.net 07:20:13 D: http://webware.sourceforge.net from talli 07:20:15 s/AOLserver/OpenACS/ 07:20:33 D: some crazy thing that docwolf rambles about 07:20:33 commented item D 07:20:49 yeah, but i don't know how much you'd really want to tie the two 07:20:54 or, what you'd do that for 07:21:09 ok, i need to go to sleep before i eat anymore 07:21:16 talk to you tomorrow 07:21:23 'nite 09:30:32 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13:29:32 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 14:29:03 davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:29:54 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 15:10:44 dlk-afk is now known as dlk-afk-doing-dishes 15:17:28 markd2 (~markd2@r-41.41.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 15:33:37 dlk-afk-doing-dishes is now known as dlk-afk-getting-kids 15:36:06 davb has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:51:04 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 17:06:26 talilee (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 17:06:26 talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:06:37 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 17:06:41 talilee is now known as talli 17:09:56 Graszew (Graszew@pc218.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl) has joined #openacs 17:10:06 Graszew has left #openacs 17:13:14 dlk-afk-getting-kids is now known as dlk 17:17:46 talli has left #openacs 17:35:54 hello 17:36:09 til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 17:41:19 hi 18:09:08 dlk is now known as dlk-party 18:11:04 markd2 has left #openacs 18:13:56 talilee (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 18:14:26 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 18:14:43 hey k2pts 18:14:47 hey talilee 18:14:48 hi k2pts 18:14:53 hi davb 18:15:20 did anyone knew that the general-comments packages is f*cked up 18:15:33 no, I haven't tried to use it. 18:15:44 how fucked is it? 18:15:54 I just realized it today...and I'm bit mad about that... 18:16:02 too much 18:16:06