IRC log of openacs on 2002-02-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:10 [talilee]

o-l-c?

00:00:20 [jim]

oe eye sea

00:00:26 [talilee]

ah, ok

00:00:44 [jim]

with emphasis,

00:00:55 [jim]

oe, -EYE- sea

00:02:16 [jim]

anyway, I wanted to know if people were thinking about service-contract and having all its pieces in pl/{,pg}sql

00:03:27 [jim]

then having bindings that reached into tcl

00:03:37 [talilee]

k2pts, you there?

00:03:53 [jim]

lurking, it seems :)

00:09:08 [jim]

(reasoning, if all the pieces for discovering and invoking contract operations were in sql, it would allow for global abilities of all packages to be present in each package's respective data model (or not, if some package doesn't implement the interface))

00:10:01 [jim]

then, I can ask from a plsql func if a particular package implements the interface and invoke if so

00:10:25 [jim]

presently, we're thinking of a "delete package instance" operation

00:12:20 [k2pts]

hey jim

00:12:45 [k2pts]

I have posted a reply if you don't mind reading the chatlogs (chat with davb)

00:12:51 [k2pts]

basically, you don't need to define

00:13:00 [k2pts]

the interfaces in pl/[pg]sql

00:13:20 [k2pts]

you'll have to do it in tcl and wrap up any pl/[pg]sql.

00:13:34 [k2pts]

this is not a workaround...this is the right way to things with a-s-c

00:14:25 [k2pts]

(eventhough there were plans for supporting a-s-c at from pl/[pg]sql...half a year of a-s-c use shows that it's best to keep everything in tcl

00:14:29 [k2pts]

.

00:14:35 [k2pts]

bbiam

00:22:47 [jim]

ok, but that would deny us the ability to use asc in, say, the overall package drop script

00:22:47 [talilee]

talilee has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

00:23:26 [talilee]

talilee (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs

00:23:29 [k2pts]

jim:that's the point instead of calling the drop script from pl/[pg]sql you will call it from inside a db_transaction in a tcl script

00:23:51 [k2pts]

does that makes sense?

00:30:42 [davb]

jim: the package drop script is in tcl now :)

00:30:56 [davb]

oh wait,never mind. the package instance drop script is tcl.

00:30:58 [jim]

is in tcl?

00:31:11 [davb]

see above -^

00:31:48 [davb]

also, a package should already know how it has implemented a service contract.

00:32:41 [jim]

I'm not sure people would agree with this, but my gut feeling tells me that altering the db directly is something that doesnt' belong in the scripting language...

00:33:18 [jim]

it should be a capability of the database, as provided by a stored proc

00:33:27 [jim]

but, ok...

00:33:36 [k2pts]

ok :)

00:35:48 [jim]

(admittedly, it also has to do with a desire to be able to use other scripting languages, as something of a drop-in replacement)

00:35:57 [talilee]

perl sucks!

00:36:55 [talilee]

* talilee is impressed with jim's restraint in the face of such massive flame bait

00:37:42 [jim]

if other scripting languages can use the xql thing, the combination of all those elements ought to do it...

00:38:48 [davb]

you would just need to implement a dispatcher in your choosen langauge.

00:38:57 [davb]

the info is in the database.

00:39:14 [davb]

jim: do you want to mix langauges? a little tcl, a little perl?

00:43:27 [jim]

that would be one possibility...

00:45:29 [jim]

but the ability to -replace- tcl also interests me, so the more the data model knows how to do its own thing, the better for that

00:46:22 [jim]

(but that's incredibly long-term, projects I have involving perl and aolserver aren't anywhere near ready for any of that, etc)

00:47:19 [talilee]

jim. putting all of that in the DB would be cool, but it would also make it very difficult to make OACS more DB independent. or at least allow the system to be ported to DBS

00:47:43 [jim]

oic

00:48:00 [jim]

so go one way, you get scripting language independence

00:48:14 [jim]

go the other way, you get database independence

00:48:21 [jim]

scalar

00:48:30 [denshi]

vector

00:48:35 [denshi]

tensor?

00:48:48 [denshi]

oops - missed matrix.

00:48:57 [denshi]

what do you mean, 'scalar'?

00:49:38 [davb]

talilee: not reallly. not any more than porting over the other pl/[pg]sql stuff

00:49:56 [davb]

of course, you can stick tcl and perl, and python inside postgresql...

00:50:26 [paje]

paje has quit ("regrouping; bbiab")

00:50:29 [jim]

denshi: on one end of the scale, you have scripting language indep

00:50:44 [jim]

on the other, you get database independence

00:51:48 [k2pts]

davb: you would just need to implement a dispatcher in your choosen langauge.

00:51:51 [k2pts]

right

00:52:13 [k2pts]

jim: see the chatlogs, we're moving a-s-c specifications to xml next release cycle

00:52:32 [davb]

k2pts: very interesting.

00:52:49 [k2pts]

davb: I have told you that already, didn't I?

00:52:56 [davb]

probably, its still cool.

00:52:58 [davb]

:)

00:53:02 [k2pts]

:)

00:53:04 [k2pts]

bbiam

00:54:16 [hamsalad]

hamsalad (~rolf@above.badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs

00:54:39 [the_docwolf]

the_docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-207-203.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

00:54:56 [the_docwolf]

the_docwolf has left #openacs

00:54:57 [talilee]

well, well well. the doctor and his lackey have arrived

00:55:00 [davb]

brb

00:55:01 [talilee]

and then left

00:55:06 [hamsalad]

heh

00:55:08 [hamsalad]

hmm.

00:55:23 [talilee]

hamsalad, huh? a little too much time in boca?

00:55:31 [hamsalad]

boca.

00:55:37 [hamsalad]

...boca

00:55:54 [dr_derek_smart]

dr_derek_smart (~docwolf@adsl-34-207-203.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

00:56:03 [hamsalad]

whoa

00:56:22 [talilee]

dr_derek_smart is not a very jewish name

00:56:27 [dr_derek_smart]

THE LAST GAME YOU WILL EVER NEED

00:57:26 [dr_derek_smart]

oh come on guys... (tumbleweeds..>)

00:57:42 [hamsalad]

sigh.

00:57:51 [dr_derek_smart]

ARE YOU MOCKING ME, HAMSALAD?

00:58:05 [dr_derek_smart]

WHERE'S THAT DAMN COKE MACHINE?

00:58:19 [hazmat]

hazmat is now known as z_igor

00:58:21 [vinod]

whoa

00:58:25 [talilee]

hamsalad, is dr_derek_smart having some trouble releasing some of his, uhm, aggression?

00:58:30 [vinod]

what's going on in here?

00:58:33 [z_igor]

z_igor is now known as hazmat

00:58:45 [talilee]

perhaps you ought to take him to one of boca's finer exotic establishments.

00:58:47 [hamsalad]

dr_D is wearing a stylish band-collar dress shirt.

00:59:08 [dr_derek_smart]

BattleACS 3k: THE LAST WEB FRAMEWORK YOU WILL EVER NEED

00:59:20 [talilee]

ah, yes. that's good. they only went out of style like 5 years ago. he's improving

01:00:21 [dr_derek_smart]

OFF TO SAWGRASS TO RUN DOWN SOME SLACKJAWED PUNKS

01:00:25 [dr_derek_smart]

dr_derek_smart has quit (Client Quit)

01:00:46 [docwolf]

docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-207-203.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs

01:00:55 [docwolf]

what... happened.. i must have blacked out.

01:01:02 [hamsalad]

heh

01:01:03 [vinod]

haha

01:01:08 [talilee]

docwolf! you just missed some crazy abstard talking about a new forked acs!

01:01:15 [hamsalad]

haha.

01:01:42 [talilee]

he was talking about releasing the code to the community so he wouldn't have to buy pizzas for his only programmer anymore

01:01:44 [docwolf]

wow! was he from ybos?

01:01:45 [talilee]

it was... insane

01:02:08 [talilee]

i thought he might have been from ybos, but then he invoked the devil's name

01:02:41 [hamsalad]

* hamsalad is away - auto "haha" - [DorkBox]

01:03:07 [talilee]

anyone wanna hear an "only in new york city" story?

01:03:14 [vinod]

yup

01:03:17 [hamsalad]

haha

01:03:18 [docwolf]

sure!

01:03:21 [talilee]

ok...

01:03:44 [talilee]

so i was coming back from the office this evening, and i got on the C train going north from Brooklyn (high st. exit)

01:04:27 [jim]

so far, only in NYC, alright :)

01:04:35 [talilee]

i took a seat between a mumbling, insane homeless black man who was eating from a styrofoam plate a meal of chicken and yellow rice and a cute girl with curly brown hair and aqua blue eyes

01:04:52 [vinod]

go talilee!

01:05:08 [talilee]

as i sat down, i realized that the homeless dude started talking about me, saying something like, "this white dude is staring at me"

01:05:16 [talilee]

so i kept staring

01:05:20 [talilee]

and he kept talking about me

01:05:56 [talilee]

then i noticed he was talking about the girl, too. talking about how we were made for each other cuz we're both crazy

01:06:11 [talilee]

so i turned to her and asked her if he was talking about her before i got there. she said yes

01:06:31 [talilee]

after a little while, i noticed she was reading a script. so i asked her what the script was for

01:07:05 [talilee]

she said it was for a play she was doing at a theater on 42nd and 11th, i congratulated her on being an actress in NYC since that's such a rough gig...

01:07:23 [vinod]

go talilee!

01:07:25 [talilee]

so we talked a little more abotu the plays she's done,a nd what i did, and where she was from and where i was from....

01:07:41 [talilee]

to borrow from a NYC jew from the upper west side, yadda yadda yadda

01:07:46 [vinod]

go talilee!

01:08:11 [talilee]

so when we reached my stop, i was a bit rushed so i asked her if she wanted to get some coffee sometime

01:08:16 [talilee]

she said yes, so i gave her my card.

01:08:31 [talilee]

all of a sudden, the homeless dude goes, "YEAH!!!" and offers me a high five

01:08:40 [hamsalad]

haha.

01:08:44 [talilee]

by this time, the car was pretty packed, so everyone turned

01:08:57 [talilee]

i ddin't really know what to do, so i returned his high five

01:09:14 [talilee]

i looked at the girl, and her head was in her hands, either laughing or trying to hide

01:09:21 [talilee]

and i had to jump off the train

01:09:32 [talilee]

but i never even got her name!

01:09:45 [talilee]

luckily, though, i remmeber the theater she's working at.

01:10:07 [hamsalad]

"i'm irciing from a minimum security cell"

01:10:07 [docwolf]

i hope you're still at the sink, washing your hand.

01:10:09 [talilee]

so i looked it up, checked out the play she was reading and got her name... and left a message for her at the theater

01:10:21 [talilee]

hey now.

01:10:28 [k2pts]

go talilee! :)

01:10:30 [docwolf]

TALLI: THE LAST STALKER A NY ACTRESS WILL EVER NEED

01:10:31 [chump]

Label TALLI not found.

01:11:21 [talilee]

NYC is the only place in the world that is so post-modern that it is both expected and accepted to pick up people on the subway. especially with the approval of the down and out

01:11:44 [talilee]

there's a fine line between stalking and romance, btw

01:11:53 [talilee]

i rely on vinod to show me that line.

01:13:34 [vinod]

that line blurs so easily. i say if you're not using binoculars it's not stalking

01:14:01 [hamsalad]

it blurs a lot more easily after you've had 15-20 white russians.

01:14:02 [talilee]

damn straight

01:14:09 [vinod]

haha

01:14:15 [talilee]

btw, i'm just trying to keep up with yon

01:14:50 [talilee]

but i don't have the accent, so it;s an uphill battle

01:16:21 [hamsalad]

one time i went out with yon.

01:16:32 [hamsalad]

it was to that place Dali in Cambridge.

01:16:39 [hamsalad]

the trendy tapas place.

01:16:46 [hamsalad]

it was packed, there was a 2 hour wait.

01:17:02 [hamsalad]

but since Yon has the secret spanish handsshake

01:17:09 [hamsalad]

some guy just cleared a table for us

01:17:22 [talilee]

haha

01:17:27 [markd2]

markd2 (~Snak@r-41.20.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

01:17:28 [hamsalad]

so, these two girls noticed that we were important people

01:17:35 [hamsalad]

and came over

01:17:37 [vinod]

markd2!

01:17:38 [hamsalad]

and sat down with us

01:17:45 [talilee]

you markd2

01:17:45 [hamsalad]

and chatted for a while.

01:17:50 [talilee]

and yon went home with both of them?

01:17:54 [hamsalad]

and then they said "so. what do you guys do?"

01:17:57 [markd2]

greets

01:18:01 [rbm]

uh oh

01:18:04 [hamsalad]

and we were like "we're computer geeks for arsdigita"

01:18:13 [hamsalad]

and they abruptly got up and left.

01:18:13 [rbm]

:-)

01:18:13 [markd2]

* markd2 is back from the omaha vacation

01:18:25 [talilee]

and they said, "OH MY GOD!!! DO YOU KNOW PHILIP????"

01:18:31 [hamsalad]

you could hear the needle scratching across the record

01:18:33 [talilee]

nice. they just left?

01:18:46 [hamsalad]

yes. they got up and left. almost immediately.

01:18:49 [talilee]

you should have told them your salaries

01:18:50 [hamsalad]

it was like a bad 80s movie.

01:18:54 [talilee]

haha

01:18:55 [docwolf]

haha

01:19:19 [hamsalad]

it didn't help that i had on my bolo tie and slip on vans.

01:19:46 [rbm]

hamsalad: You should have said "we're hi-tech workers"

01:20:02 [talilee]

and you hadn't fixed your glasses yet, so the tape was still holding together the bridge, right?

01:20:07 [hamsalad]

to be honest i dont think we said arsdigita. i think we just said "we are software engineers"

01:20:14 [docwolf]

"I HAVE BUILT THE LAST GAME YOU WILL EVER NEED". that gets all the chicks.

01:20:15 [hamsalad]

which is the kiss of death

01:20:15 [jim]

k2pts: would it be possible to refactor asc such that both approaches can be taken?

01:20:51 [rbm]

I was in med school when I met my wife. I don't know if she'd have dated had I said "I'm a computer science student" ;-)

01:20:56 [vinod]

i think docwolf and dr_derek_smart have been hanging out together

01:20:59 [rbm]

s/dated/dated me/

01:21:24 [vinod]

heh - i've tried both approaches, rbm. neither works for me

01:21:40 [rbm]

Actually I think she would have. In Brazil we don't have the "geek" stigma. This is a north-american-high-school-movie thing, /me thinks.

01:21:46 [talilee]

i get to bust out "i started a software company" but thankfully they dont' ask me wtf that means

01:22:12 [rbm]

vinod: Come to Brazil with me. I can introduce you to some very pretty friends of mine that are still single.

01:22:12 [hamsalad]

i usually just take the miata down to 7-11 and wait until someone needs me to buy a 12 of coors.

01:22:16 [talilee]

rbm, you can't run from the truth by blaming it on the gringos. you're a nerd, and it ain't cool

01:22:23 [talilee]

haha

01:22:26 [rbm]

* rbm is k00l :-)

01:22:31 [vinod]

rbm: lemme know when you're going! :-)

01:22:53 [rbm]

vinod: Buy us 2 tickets and I'm available anytime after mid-may :)

01:22:56 [talilee]

rbm: can you get me a date with a chick that had a breast reduction and a butt implant?

01:23:04 [vinod]

haha

01:23:19 [rbm]

talilee: That's how Brazilian women are by default. No need for artifical things.

01:24:31 [talilee]

rbm: yon likes to talk about how there is such a dearth of straight men in rio that the women are all insane nymphos. wait. that may not be yons story, but the plot of some porno i saw recently...

01:24:36 [talilee]

then again, is there a difference?

01:25:05 [talilee]

that's because they can shake their hips and butt

01:25:11 [denshi]

hey markd2

01:25:25 [rbm]

talilee: Rio is tough. Really tough. Lots of gay men, lots of beautiful women. Don't know about the nympho part.

01:25:31 [docwolf]

(markd2 is shell-shocked by this conversation)

01:25:36 [talilee]

my bro just got back from doign a shoot in brazil. he said he was overwhelmedby the beauty of the women

01:25:52 [rbm]

talilee: "a shoot"?

01:26:03 [talilee]

the balloon hat project

01:26:03 [markd2]

* markd2 was struggling to get AIM working again

01:26:03 [docwolf]

yeah rbm. he makes "movies"... ahem.

01:26:12 [k2pts]

* k2pts thinks we should change the channel topic just in case

01:26:17 [rbm]

docwolf: Ah...

01:26:23 [talilee]

rbm: what makes that combo "tough"

01:26:25 [talilee]

?

01:26:35 [rbm]

k2pts: Shhh! We're discussing important OpenACS matters! :)

01:26:41 [k2pts]

:)

01:26:43 [k2pts]

right

01:26:45 [davb]

can I run CVS pserver with daemontools instead of inetd?

01:26:46 [talilee]

hey now. let's not drag my brother's name through the mud.

01:26:47 [rbm]

talilee: It's tough for women.

01:26:55 [talilee]

his movies are classy

01:27:18 [hamsalad]

this irc channel is classy.

01:27:20 [talilee]

oh. that's too bad. i would like to go and help them make it through such a difficult situation

01:27:25 [hamsalad]

in factk. it reeks of class.

01:27:52 [rbm]

I have a friend whose dead is a doctor and divorced. He is in his 50s and about to retire. Guess where he chose to retire and live???

01:28:08 [hamsalad]

silicon valley!?

01:28:13 [talilee]

haha

01:28:48 [rbm]

talilee: I gotta warn you that women from Rio have the reputation of being astonoshingly beaultiful, as long as they don't say anything.

01:29:00 [hamsalad]

just the way i like them.

01:29:03 [docwolf]

rbm: any truth to the rumor that they age badly?

01:29:04 [rbm]

talilee: But I think those times are past :-) Today beach women all go to college :)

01:29:12 [talilee]

damn

01:29:16 [talilee]

educated beach women

01:29:21 [talilee]

they'll want all kinds of right

01:29:23 [talilee]

rights

01:29:28 [talilee]

like, bikini tops

01:29:29 [docwolf]

yeah, we have that type in boca.

01:29:44 [rbm]

docwolf: Nah. That was before everybody knew that too much sunlight without sunblock cause the skin to age faster.

01:29:46 [talilee]

but, docwolf, i think the women in brazil might have teeth

01:29:53 [rbm]

s/cause/caused/

01:31:37 [docwolf]

talli: who needs teeth?

01:31:44 [talilee]

touche

01:32:04 [davb]

vinod: do you have run aolserver from daemontools in the docs?

01:32:29 [vinod]

davb: i show both approaches

01:32:33 [davb]

cool.

01:33:07 [docwolf]

speaking of toothless

01:33:10 [talilee]

i'm surprised denshi hasn't weighed in with his illuminating thoughts about love in the early twenty-first century

01:33:16 [davb]

BTW, I tested my new site design in mozilla and it looked ok.

01:33:19 [docwolf]

i bought a VIA C3 Ezra today

01:33:27 [docwolf]

has anyone tried this chip yet?

01:33:33 [davb]

what is it?

01:33:34 [denshi]

love is overrated compared to world domination.

01:33:44 [davb]

celeron clone?

01:33:54 [docwolf]

the C3 Ezra is unique, because it's an x86 that apparently can run without a fan.

01:34:11 [docwolf]

it allows you to create the "holy grail" of a fan-free PC.

01:34:15 [davb]

that is spiffy.

01:34:22 [talilee]

ah, the docwolf ears can rest peacefully now

01:34:28 [davb]

you need that little case we were discussing before.

01:34:37 [docwolf]

unfortunately, i have the shuttle case

01:34:42 [docwolf]

and it's got the loudest fan ever.

01:34:51 [davb]

I have 12 fans running in my little 7x9 office

01:34:58 [docwolf]

davb: !!!!!!!!

01:35:03 [davb]

3 PCs

01:35:08 [docwolf]

that is horrendous.

01:35:14 [vinod]

no wonder davb can never hear us

01:35:16 [docwolf]

noise pollution = bad for your health.

01:35:32 [davb]

well one is hidden, I can't hear that one really.

01:35:56 [docwolf]

hopefully the ezra will work well enough for daily tasks.

01:35:59 [davb]

they aren't too bad actually. the little tiny gateways we have at work are louder with only one little fan.

01:36:06 [talilee]

docwolf, i'm not sure that davb has quite reached the decibel level of a jumbo jet engine

01:36:09 [hamsalad]

wow i'll have to vote jonathan ellis as the biggest dink on the openacs bboards (next to me, of course)

01:36:38 [talilee]

yeah, jonathon ellis gets pretty nasty sometimes. but he's honest at least

01:36:51 [hamsalad]

everytime posts something like "look at htis thing i built" the only thing he posts is "haha. i've always hated that style"

01:37:17 [talilee]

yeah, that was pretty bad

01:37:21 [davb]

has he ever built anything we can see?

01:37:26 [talilee]

especially because gilbert's thing is really cool

01:37:34 [talilee]

davb: carnageblender :)

01:37:43 [hamsalad]

sigh.

01:38:26 [davb]

ah.

01:38:52 [docwolf]

talli: low-level noise can be harmful, too.

01:39:08 [docwolf]

(it can be damaging,psychologically.)

01:39:21 [davb]

I think I will put the web server in the basement...:)

01:39:37 [docwolf]

for example, i sat next to my shuttle box all day today, and for some odd reason by 5:00 i felt like bludgeoning rolf

01:39:58 [hamsalad]

actually wait a minute. maybe this fan is why i feel like i'm about to pass out

01:40:08 [hamsalad]

either that or the rophynol

01:40:13 [talilee]

docwolf: maybe you shuold ask hamsalad to stop humming britney songs all day

01:40:33 [davb]

that has to be more dangerous than a couple of fans

01:40:34 [docwolf]

talli: it was that, or debbie gibson. lesser of two evils..

01:41:05 [vinod]

davb: haha

01:41:07 [hamsalad]

they are both trailer trash.

01:41:39 [talilee]

speaking of which, tiffany is in the latest playboy

01:41:44 [hamsalad]

whoa.

01:42:25 [docwolf]

sweet. tiffany, derek smart.. i feel like i'm back in 1988

01:42:42 [hamsalad]

i can cue up "one night in bangkok"

01:43:04 [markd2]

alas Tiffany had a boob job

01:43:08 [rbm]

Yikes

01:43:11 [docwolf]

dude, i've already got the tesla spooled, thanks anyway.

01:43:14 [hamsalad]

haha

01:43:30 [rbm]

* rbm 's wife has about 3 or 4 "top 80's" cds

01:43:50 [hamsalad]

isn't tiffany like 36 now.

01:43:56 [davb]

I sold all of mine.

01:44:08 [markd2]

I wore all mine out

01:44:09 [docwolf]

i don't think she's that old.

01:44:17 [docwolf]

i'll have to get the magazine to verify.

01:45:01 [rbm]

If she was 15 an 1988, she should be in her late 20s or early 30s.

01:45:27 [hamsalad]

she's 30

01:45:31 [docwolf]

hm.. i should get her number.

01:45:33 [davb]

k2pts: which table can I look in to see if my stuff is being indexed

01:46:11 [davb]

k2pts: also will it index all the stuff I put int he CR before I installed openfts?

01:48:09 [rbm]

* rbm heads out to a meeting

01:48:14 [rbm]

bbl

01:48:56 [k2pts]

davb: txt for object_ids etc, indexX for indexed words

01:49:16 [davb]

ok thanks.

01:49:19 [k2pts]

X between 1 and 13

01:49:26 [hamsalad]

* hamsalad gets in a serious irc discussion with docwolf.

01:49:29 [k2pts]

13 is the defaullt

01:49:43 [docwolf]

* docwolf must go teach rolf a lesson.. push the button, rolf.

01:49:46 [markd2]

* markd2 starts slogging through 4-5 days of backlogged email

01:50:58 [davb]

nothing.

01:51:01 [davb]

hmmm.

01:51:05 [davb]

oops.

01:51:08 [hamsalad]

wow tiffany is younger than gwen stefani.

01:51:12 [davb]

I think my content_type is wrong.

01:51:17 [davb]

argh.

01:51:25 [docwolf]

hamsalad: use your leet skills to find her phone number.

01:51:37 [docwolf]

talli isn't the only one who can engage in high-level stalking.

01:51:49 [hamsalad]

i can get gwen stefani's number

01:52:00 [hamsalad]

tiffany's will be more of a challenge.

01:53:45 [hamsalad]

must exit

01:53:47 [hamsalad]

l8r

01:53:48 [hamsalad]

hamsalad has quit ("hamsalad has no reason")

01:54:14 [davb]

no, they ARE content_revisions.

01:54:17 [davb]

hmmmm.

01:54:36 [davb]

k2pts: is there a way to have it reindex all my old content?

01:58:17 [denshi]

* denshi finishes his beer and logs off of this whirlwind of perversity. good luck with the stalking, talli.

01:58:25 [talilee]

thanks denshi

01:58:31 [talilee]

i'll give her a peep for ya

01:58:36 [denshi]

l8r.

01:58:41 [denshi]

denshi has quit ()

02:00:02 [k2pts]

davb: off the top of my head, a simple solution is to insert all searchable object_ids in the search queue with event='UPDATE'

02:02:17 [k2pts]

k2pts has left #openacs

02:05:04 [davb]

thanks (bye)

02:20:54 [davb]

I think I need a seperate service-contract for my ETP items, even though they are in the CR

02:22:00 [davb]

ah, now I remember.

02:22:17 [davb]

I don't need triggers, but there has to be a datasource provider for every content_type.

02:44:46 [davb]

darn: I forgot the secret incantation rbm told me to get a URL from a package_id

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03:14:39 [rbm]

davb: Look at the log.

03:14:54 [davb]

thanks.

03:16:10 [rbm]

I can't remember either and I don't want to ssh into my devel box now :)

03:16:31 [davb]

no problem.

03:26:32 [davb]

hmmm, still not indexing my worthless content...

03:37:27 [davb]

time to go. bye

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13:54:42 [rzolf]

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13:54:52 [rzolf]

nyone alive?

13:56:37 [docwolf]

only us supreme tacos.

13:59:12 [rzolf]

hm

13:59:13 [rzolf]

ok

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14:42:51 [davb]

hello rzolf

14:52:45 [rzolf]

hello davB

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15:56:06 [davb]

hi hazmat, markd2, vinod

16:03:00 [markd2]

greetings

16:03:06 [vinod]

hi everyone

16:06:10 [markd2]

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16:06:13 [markd2]

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16:06:25 [markd2]

clicked on the wrong button

16:13:20 [davb]

oops. I knew they were dangerous.

16:30:00 [markd2]

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16:31:56 [vinod]

you're right. that button is dangerous

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16:46:05 [talli]

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16:52:49 [talli]

hey guys

16:53:08 [vinod]

hey talli

16:53:26 [paje]

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16:53:46 [rbm]

* rbm resurrects paje

16:53:59 [rbm]

paje: how are you?

16:53:59 [paje]

mas o menos

16:54:06 [rbm]

heheh

16:54:43 [vinod]

you taught him a new language?

16:54:46 [rbm]

paje: I'm sorry to not have resurrected you earlier.

16:54:46 [paje]

rbm: what?

16:55:10 [rbm]

vinod: No, somebody taught him what to reply for "how are you"

16:55:26 [vinod]

ahhh

16:55:48 [rbm]

paje: ahhh is <reply> uhhhhh

16:55:48 [paje]

OK, rbm.

16:55:52 [rbm]

paje: ahhh

16:55:53 [paje]

uhhhhh

16:56:11 [docwolf]

http://www.content-wire.com/Home/Index.cfm?ccs=86&cs=1452

16:56:11 [chump]

A: http://www.content-wire.com/Home/Index.cfm?ccs=86&cs=1452 from docwolf

16:56:26 [docwolf]

THE LAST CMS YOU WILL EVER DESIRE

16:56:48 [rbm]

docwolf: heheh

16:57:02 [talli]

uhoh

16:57:36 [docwolf]

eve really should stop complaining.

16:58:29 [talli]

eve better stay in guatemala at this pace

16:59:00 [talli]

docwolf: is there something in the boca water that gets people to start making capitalized electronic pronouncements constantly?

16:59:01 [docwolf]

seriously. i read documents like that, and strange words start crossing into consciousness

16:59:27 [vinod]

talli: docwolf explained that to me

16:59:44 [vinod]

i spent last night reading the story of the Derek Smart flamewars

17:00:04 [docwolf]

THEY ARE NOT FLAMEWARS. THOSE PEOPLE ARE JUST IDIOTS. I AM THE TACO SUPREME

17:00:11 [vinod]

haha

17:00:39 [docwolf]

smart's company is still incorporated down here

17:00:52 [rbm]

docwolf: Isn't this a copy of eveander.com/arsdigita-story?

17:01:09 [docwolf]

rbm: yup, it is. but i'm assuming contentwire got permission to reprint it

17:01:17 [rbm]

docwolf: I think this .com site just saw the story and asked if they could republish. I don't think she went out of her way to ask them to publish it.

17:01:40 [talli]

rbm: she probably also didn't go out of her way to ssk them not to publish it

17:01:45 [talli]

which may be just as bad

17:02:27 [rbm]

talli: true enough. But why wouldn't she allow it to be republished? It has the potential of helping other people in an audience closer to the problem-domain.

17:02:57 [talli]

you mean like eve and philip?

17:03:32 [rbm]

talli: No. The site is aimed at content-manager companies isn't it.

17:03:32 [docwolf]

rbm: eve's side of the story is way, way unbalanced.

17:03:45 [rbm]

docwolf: Well, that much I can't say.

17:04:17 [docwolf]

rbm: she doesn't realize that the downfall of aD was taking $35MM. it doesn't matter who the VCs were. The company would never have been able to live up to that valuation.

17:04:38 [rbm]

I don't know enough of the internals, but knowing docwolf, I'd believe him.

17:04:41 [docwolf]

rbm: it's not so much that the VCs were "idiots" or "jerks" or whatever, it's just that they put too much in.

17:04:53 [docwolf]

there was no way for them to recoup their investment, after the .com bubble burst.

17:05:13 [rbm]

not even in the medium-to-long run?

17:05:37 [docwolf]

nope. not a chance. unless aD went into a completely different line of business.

17:05:42 [docwolf]

(which they tried to do, but failed.)

17:06:06 [rbm]

Hmm, IANAMBA so I digress.

17:06:49 [talli]

which... aD tried to do.

17:06:58 [talli]

actually, they went from collab to CM back to collab

17:07:07 [talli]

which, well, wasn't going to work :(

17:07:08 [rbm]

I don't think they should have taken that money.

17:07:24 [docwolf]

rbm: i agree completely (and i'

17:07:28 [docwolf]

i've been a vc..)

17:07:37 [talli]

rbm: have you ever been offered $35MM? ;)

17:07:39 [davb]

vinod: which linux do you run on your mac? A local guy is asking.

17:08:31 [rbm]

talli: No. I can see how powerful the dark side can be, however, knowing that the strength of an open source jedi flows from the community force, I'd consult with the community.

17:08:32 [rbm]

:-)

17:08:36 [vinod]

davb: debian

17:08:56 [rbm]

* rbm ^5's vinod

17:09:04 [vinod]

davb: i tried linuxppc first, but didn't like it

17:09:52 [vinod]

rbm: :-)

17:10:04 [talli]

i tried linuxppc once and it crapped out my machine

17:10:20 [davb]

vinod: cool. is there a mac specific version? or just use the regular debian install?

17:10:33 [vinod]

davb: there's debian-powerpc

17:10:55 [davb]

cool. I'll let him know.

17:11:09 [vinod]

http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/

17:11:09 [chump]

B: http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/ from vinod

17:11:16 [vinod]

B:| Debian PowerPC

17:11:16 [chump]

titled item B

17:12:00 [vinod]

I already had linuxppc installed when i decided to install debian

17:12:46 [vinod]

so i think i downloaded the images and installed them in a separate directory and then did some chroot magic to install it

17:12:56 [vinod]

(wish i had written that down)

17:15:50 [davb]

wow, that is pretty amazing. I have used a boot-floppy network install and boot-from-cd install.

17:18:54 [vinod]

yeah. when i rebooted, i remember thinking, "wow, I can't believe that worked" :-)

17:19:22 [davb]

heh

17:23:05 [davb]

argh, acs-service-contract has no package to report a bug

17:23:28 [talli]

good thing the patch maintainer is neophytos :)

17:23:58 [davb]

true. I will upload it to the general area..

17:25:31 [rbm]

jim: around?

17:31:55 [davb]

rbm: acs_package_root_dir takes a package_key?

17:32:03 [davb]

It looks like it anyway.

17:32:56 [rbm]

davb: I can't remember off the top of my head.

17:33:00 [davb]

no problem :)

17:33:17 [davb]

just thinking aloud really :)

17:34:23 [davb]

I found this though: rss_first_url_for_package_id, which might do the trick.

17:42:30 [talilee]

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17:43:43 [docwolf]

ugh. i'm getting hip-deep in a minor flamefest with the openoffice guys.

17:43:54 [talilee]

haha

17:43:56 [talilee]

what did you do?

17:43:59 [docwolf]

my alter-ego derek must be taking over.

17:44:19 [docwolf]

i asked a question -- how come i can't get open office to display decent looking fonts out-of-the-box on mandrake.

17:44:34 [docwolf]

you'd think no one had ever asked this question before.

17:44:39 [davb]

sounds like a reasonable question.

17:44:55 [davb]

docwolf: probably it comes with crappy fonts (mandrake)

17:45:30 [docwolf]

davb: that's the thing.. mandrake does come with OK fonts, and most apps use them automatically (konqueror, abiword, etc..)

17:45:47 [docwolf]

open-office uses fonts that, frankly, my amiga 500 would have been embarrassed to display.

17:45:58 [docwolf]

it's certainly no way to build a 'world class' office suite.

17:46:17 [davb]

not at all. it should use the fonts provided by the X server.

17:46:27 [talilee]

it's sun.

17:46:35 [docwolf]

right, but now i'm getting the run-around. "It's a bug" was the first response

17:46:43 [talli]

talli has quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")

17:46:55 [talilee]

talilee is now known as talli

17:47:07 [talli]

i trust sun as much as i trust MS

17:47:10 [docwolf]

then came the "it's for legal reasons -- we don't want to use the patched version of mandrake's freetype library"

17:47:17 [talli]

i don't care if openoffice is the "open suite"

17:47:27 [docwolf]

finally, one of the lead developers randomly chimed in "use Xfree 4.2 and it will be ok"

17:47:36 [docwolf]

(umm.. dude, i _am_ using xfree 4.2, as I said in my post..)

17:47:37 [talli]

haha

17:47:40 [davb]

heh

17:47:53 [docwolf]

if this is the best alternative, it's no wonder MS has steamrolled everyone.

17:47:59 [davb]

I will have to try it. I have a bunch of real type 1 fonts installed on my machine.

17:48:16 [docwolf]

davb: the important thing is trying it on a bone-stock mandrake box, with nothing else installed.

17:48:26 [talli]

docwolf, i think you should shut up and be happy that volunteers are putting out this work. because, you know, they don't need this aggravation...

17:48:41 [talli]

docwolf, have you tried worfperfect for linux?

17:48:49 [talli]

the only prob is it costs 200 bucks :(

17:48:55 [docwolf]

talli: i'd rather not trade one commercial program for another

17:49:00 [davb]

docwolf: true. It should work, noone should have to go jump through hoops just for an app like that to work.

17:49:03 [talli]

true enough

17:49:20 [docwolf]

it's so sad.. i mean, if they could just work to make OO.o work perfectly on a stock mandrake installation

17:49:25 [docwolf]

you'd have a real windows alternative.

17:49:49 [docwolf]

but something as simple as basic font support is eluding these guys.

17:50:13 [docwolf]

(btw, the rest of mandrake 8.2b3 is pretty darn good. total point-and-drool install, works fine.)

17:50:20 [davb]

you would think it was pretty high on the list. even Mozilla has good looking fonts.

17:50:47 [docwolf]

rolf's theory is that anyone in the free software world with any taste or sense of style is trying to get a job with Apple

17:51:05 [davb]

that is a pretty good theory.

17:51:07 [docwolf]

the rest.. have no idea what decent font support is

17:51:13 [docwolf]

b/c they're always looking at XFree.

17:51:36 [davb]

the main problem is all the patents surrounding the fonts etc...

17:52:02 [docwolf]

davb: understood. but you'd think someone like sun, or even redhat, would commission a basic set of GPLd fonts that were decent.

17:52:33 [davb]

docwolf: excellent point. but also the technology is patenetd. there is not ATM font managaer for linux (is there?)

17:53:05 [docwolf]

I don't know. but what i do know is.. my mandrake box is sitting next to rolf's TiBook, and the difference is alarming.

17:53:16 [docwolf]

also, i thought that corel linux had decent font support out of the box.

17:53:51 [davb]

ah, yes, I recall it looked good, but it despised my network card, so I went to redhat.

17:53:54 [talli]

docwolf: OSX has been in development for a looong time

17:54:18 [talli]

not only does it have the BSD core, but it's also receiving much of the work put into NeXT

17:54:19 [davb]

plus Apple owns alot of the patents on font technology :)

17:54:43 [talli]

so if OSX didn't look as good (espeically since it's been built FOR artists) they'd be fucked

17:55:55 [docwolf]

talli: very true. but the fact is there are no less than 3 companies trying to get linux on the desktop. And it will never make it, looking like some sort of 3rd grader's art project.

17:56:37 [davb]

docwolf: did you install lycoris/desktop (redmond linux)?

17:56:48 [docwolf]

i tried installing lycoris two days ago. it was horrible.

17:56:49 [talli]

i don't buy that redhat is trying to get linux on the desktop

17:57:13 [talli]

i bet they could care less one way or the other about hte desktop, unless you're talking about thin clients

17:57:23 [docwolf]

it took about 40 minutes to install, couldn't properly detect my video card. the screen came up at 640x480 in 16 colors. it couldn't detect my network card.

17:57:30 [talli]

they might prefer it that way, but they obviously care a whole lot more about embedded and server markets

17:57:32 [docwolf]

i threw it out immediately. mandrake worked fine.

17:57:37 [davb]

that is bad. the reviewer must have been lucky.

17:57:48 [talli]

or the reviewer was paid off :)

17:57:59 [docwolf]

lycoris probably works well on a very small subset of hardware.

17:58:07 [talli]

i know one guy who is building an ASP.NET project for a BILLION dollar company

17:58:07 [docwolf]

i notice that lycoris themselves are selling a $400 machine.

17:58:23 [talli]

they are using that tech literally because the CEO read about it in a magazine

17:58:45 [talli]

oh, and the company doesn't believe in planning or generating specs

17:59:00 [talli]

which sucks because this new system is replacing one that still runs on vaz

17:59:02 [talli]

vax

17:59:16 [docwolf]

talli: who is this company, and are the shares available to short?

17:59:21 [talli]

haha

17:59:25 [talli]

brb

17:59:55 [davb]

uhoh, tree_sortkey errors in ETP

18:04:35 [talli]

as far as the ASP.NET project, it's nice to have confirmation that if you have 40 Billion dollars in cash you can convince anyone of anything

18:26:34 [talli]

that's it. linux sucks

18:26:40 [talli]

unix sucks

18:26:58 [talli]

i give up

18:28:45 [vinod]

what did linux do this time?

18:28:57 [talli]

i'm using KDE

18:29:00 [talli]

i downlaoded gabber

18:29:19 [talli]

i try to install it, and it tells me it can't find the gnome libraries

18:29:53 [vinod]

ugh

18:30:03 [vinod]

isn't there a kde jabber client?

18:30:06 [davb]

talli: debian

18:30:22 [vinod]

davb: i was going to say that, but didn't think he wanted to hear it :-)

18:30:26 [davb]

heh

18:30:42 [vinod]

i use everybuddy for my IM needs

18:30:43 [davb]

if I form a LUG it will be hard to not answer all questions with that :)

18:30:57 [vinod]

haha

18:31:38 [vinod]

gabber seemed buggy back when i tried it last (few months ago)

18:31:50 [rbm]

talli: Try downloading a statically-linked version of gabber, or install the appropriate libraries.

18:31:52 [talli]

they just released a new one

18:55:28 [markd2]

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19:52:54 [talilee]

talilee is now known as talli

19:56:48 [davb]

yahoo!

19:57:12 [rbm]

Lycos!

19:57:25 [davb]

heh

19:57:38 [davb]

I am almost ready to move my site over to openacs 4

19:58:03 [vinod]

schweeeet!

19:58:48 [markd2]

awesome

20:03:36 [markd2]

markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")

20:05:38 [dlk]

dlk is now known as dlk-afk

20:08:48 [hazmat]

* hazmat installs openacs-4 from cvs

20:09:21 [hazmat]

its alive! :-)

20:10:23 [vinod]

welcome back to the dark side!

20:10:37 [vinod]

or are we the light side?

20:11:01 [talli]

whichever side you're on, vinod, has to be the wrong side

20:11:18 [vinod]

i'm on talli's side

20:11:25 [talli]

damn

20:11:28 [vinod]

haha

20:11:38 [hazmat]

i'm just visiting...

20:11:44 [talli]

can someone else take him, please?

20:12:23 [hazmat]

well it looks tenatively like openacs works on pg7.2.

20:13:56 [vinod]

yeah, it worked for me on 7.2rc2 (except for some extra trouble getting openfts installed)

20:15:00 [davb]

ok another test please :) http://24.58.162.46:8001/

20:15:38 [talli]

looks good to me

20:15:56 [davb]

cool.

20:16:05 [davb]

now i need to build the rest of the site :)

20:16:08 [talli]

hey, you guys didn't respond to my post

20:16:14 [hazmat]

ughh.. the logging at the debug level is obscene still 35k file from install and startup.

20:17:03 [vinod]

davb: nice

20:18:07 [davb]

hazmat: yes. very verbose.

20:18:22 [davb]

talli? the open development plea?

20:18:49 [talli]

yeah

20:19:04 [talli]

anyone can feel free to back me up, you know

20:19:08 [talli]

since you did ask me to post it

20:19:15 [hazmat]

* hazmat sends talli another moral support card

20:19:22 [talli]

thanks. bastard

20:19:45 [hazmat]

didn't you say how you didn't care about your rep. or something to that effect when you 'volunteered' ? :)

20:19:52 [talli]

i don't

20:19:59 [talli]

at least, it's bad enough already

20:20:15 [hazmat]

i'll support you, but my rep round here is shitty as well.

20:20:23 [talli]

but it would be nice if someone posts, "yeah, i think so too!" so that at least i'm not out there in the wind...

20:20:32 [hazmat]

the format for an apm is just zipped ?

20:20:43 [davb]

tar.gz

20:20:55 [hazmat]

thnx

20:22:43 [davb]

np

20:26:20 [hazmat]

hmmm... apm says this Specify a local path including a filename for the APM file or a directory containing several APM files.

20:26:29 [hazmat]

but specifying a directory results in an error.

20:27:05 [hazmat]

ahh had to put in a trailing slash. cool

20:28:35 [davb]

talli: i am working on a resposne, it will take a few minutes to get it right.

20:29:51 [davb]

close enough.

20:30:22 [talli]

thanks davb

20:30:30 [talli]

i appreciate it. good response

20:31:20 [davb]

thanks. I know I have even had emails just between me an DonB about stuff, so if there is information locked in my email, imagine what is in a good devleoper's email!

20:33:08 [hazmat]

talli: did you already post to the bboard?

20:33:17 [talli]

yeah

20:33:30 [talli]

http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00046a&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS

20:33:30 [chump]

C: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00046a&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS from talli

20:33:32 [davb]

what does up-to-date check failed mean in CVS?

20:35:51 [davb]

nm,

20:40:14 [davb]

ok I am dumping the database.

20:42:01 [hazmat]

talli: cool, you have a flair for diplomacy ;)

20:42:09 [talli]

almost

20:42:25 [talli]

eventually i imagine a flame fest will explode, but it's mellow for now, i guess

20:42:56 [hazmat]

i can't say that i have much to add. i've already said it a few times before in other bboard threads.

20:43:07 [talli]

yeah, that's all right

20:43:14 [talli]

i think dave's post was enough

20:57:12 [chump]

chump has quit (Remote closed the connection)

20:57:45 [talli]

davb, i'm going to install debian on the system

20:57:57 [rbm]

is ther something like export_form_vars on OACS4?

20:57:59 [talli]

i can write down all the system specs and walk through the install

20:58:25 [talli]

but redcarpet and up2date aren't working too nicely for me

20:58:37 [rbm]

ad_export_vars

20:58:50 [rbm]

talli: get apt-rpm

20:59:02 [talli]

hmmm... where's that?

20:59:32 [rbm]

http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/

20:59:45 [rbm]

first hit on google :)

20:59:45 [talli]

great! thanks

21:00:04 [talli]

who needs google when you have RBM search?

21:00:50 [rbm]

Looks like there's an apt-enabled Mandrake repository too

21:00:57 [rbm]

ftp://ftp.uninett.no/pub/linux/apt/

21:01:31 [talli]

hmmm...

21:02:14 [rbm]

but you need the apt rpm's from the first site. Then edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the Mandrake repository

21:02:30 [talli]

oh, cool. thanks alot

21:02:31 [rbm]

Wow, they even have a repository with cooker.

21:02:41 [talli]

why hate linux when you have rbm and davb around?

21:03:10 [rbm]

If you want to use the cooker repository, put this in your /etc/apt/sources.list: ftp://ftp.uninett.no/pub/linux/apt/sources.list-mandrake-cooker

21:03:20 [talli]

thanks

21:03:22 [rbm]

talli: Then install synaptic. A very cool front-end to apt.

21:03:30 [talli]

oh, very cool

21:03:32 [rbm]

(assuming you'd like something graphical)O

21:03:34 [talli]

GUI or command?

21:03:44 [talli]

i do like graphical, but i'm starting to prefer command line

21:03:53 [talli]

graphical is nice and all, but only when it works

21:03:58 [rbm]

talli: you're finally seing the light! :)

21:04:02 [talli]

which is... uh... not as often as it should

21:04:04 [talli]

:)

21:04:07 [rbm]

<-- likes command-line for the most part

21:04:17 [rbm]

but some apps are better when done graphically.

21:04:26 [rbm]

an image viewer for example :)

21:04:30 [talli]

:)

21:05:10 [talli]

i would love to learn vim to a point where i never need to move my hands from the keyboard, that would be ideal

21:05:51 [talli]

but vim setup has unfortuantely, like everything else in linux, eluded me

21:05:58 [hazmat]

anyone have a tarball of a graphviz binary handy?

21:06:32 [chump]

chump (~chump@alb-24-58-160-41.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

21:07:38 [vinod]

hazmat: sorry, i use apt-get... the graphviz page is http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/download.html

21:08:11 [rbm]

speaking of graphviz... 'apt-get dotty' is interesting

21:10:00 [hazmat]

vinod: thanks.

21:10:06 [vinod]

np

21:13:44 [talli]

davb and rbm: i'm postign the new OACS.org task list now

21:14:13 [rbm]

talli: excellent

21:14:59 [davb]

cool.

21:15:16 [talli]

has anyone looked at webmin before? http://www.webmin.com

21:15:28 [davb]

I am restarting my new openacs 4 site, it takes alot longer on the wimpy 500mhz web server than my 1ghz desktop

21:15:41 [davb]

oops.

21:17:04 [davb]

what is the switch for adding binary files to cvs? or can it detect JPG etc?

21:17:20 [markd2]

markd2 (~Snak@166.102.30.163) has joined #openacs

21:17:39 [docwolf]

arg.. these openoffice dudes better get moving

21:17:44 [vinod]

the cvs expert has just arrived

21:17:51 [markd2]

it's a great drugstore!

21:18:04 [markd2]

and you can get snacks(tm) there!

21:18:10 [vinod]

haha - i told you markd2 - enough with the oxycontin

21:18:24 [markd2]

yes doctor

21:18:52 [rbm]

davb: cvs add -kb foo

21:18:57 [davb]

cool

21:19:03 [rbm]

or cvs -kb add foo, can't remember

21:19:15 [markd2]

cvs add -kb

21:19:21 [markd2]

it's arguments to 'add'

21:22:37 [davb]

hmmm. search is broken.

21:23:01 [davb]

the entire site-map appears to be broken.

21:23:05 [davb]

this is bad.

21:23:29 [rbm]

* rbm is broken

21:23:33 [rbm]

_that_ is bad :)

21:23:59 [davb]

hmmm. something broke when I exported the database.

21:24:44 [hazmat]

ughh.. i've got graphviz installed but now it wants true type fonts.

21:25:12 [hazmat]

does anyone know where i can get some truetype fonts?

21:25:24 [hazmat]

for linux, preferrably not in rpm

21:25:28 [rbm]

apt-get install ttfonts

21:25:44 [davb]

weird: Function 'tree_ancestor_keys(varbit)' does not exist

21:25:47 [talli]

hey guys, posted the task list

21:25:58 [rbm]

* rbm goes to a meeting

21:27:17 [davb]

weird. I am not sure why that ONE function was not created.

21:28:27 [davb]

chump should be searchable in 10-15 mins.

21:28:37 [davb]

http://www.thedesignexperience.org

21:28:37 [chump]

D: http://www.thedesignexperience.org from davb

21:28:43 [davb]

D:|The Design Experience v4

21:28:43 [chump]

titled item D

21:30:37 [davb]

weird, more stuff is missing.

21:30:59 [davb]

argh

21:31:06 [davb]

time to go home, I will fix it later...

21:31:10 [davb]

davb has quit ()

21:37:26 [k2pts]

k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs

21:37:31 [k2pts]

hey guys

21:39:41 [k2pts]

paje: seen talli?

21:39:41 [paje]

talli was last seen on #openacs 13 minutes and 55 seconds ago, saying: hey guys, posted the task list [Thu Feb 28 14:27:46 2002]

21:40:22 [k2pts]

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22:09:49 [rafa]

rafa (rafa@ebt.ee.usyd.edu.au) has joined #openacs

22:10:02 [rafa]

hi there

22:15:21 [talli]

hey rafa

22:19:37 [talli]

guys, i have a terrible newbie question, but one that i thought i knew

22:20:03 [talli]

if i'm trying to bring up my net connection on my debian desktop, i type "ifconfig eth0 up", right?

22:20:18 [talli]

am i using the wrong term for the ethernet interface?

22:20:50 [talli]

it says that it cannot find that interface

22:23:12 [talli]

vinod: you there?

22:24:16 [vinod]

sorry... was watching tv

22:24:20 [talli]

np

22:24:23 [vinod]

that should be the right command

22:24:45 [talli]

i get a "device not found"

22:24:49 [talli]

i just installed debian

22:25:03 [talli]

now i'm trying to configure the ethernet card in order to download woody

22:25:16 [markd2]

sounds kinky

22:25:17 [vinod]

hmm

22:25:33 [talli]

i guess it's not detecting the ethernet card

22:26:03 [vinod]

do you have something that refers to eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces

22:26:26 [talli]

lemme check. that might be the issue...

22:26:41 [vinod]

for example if you want to set up dhcp, there should be a line:

22:26:52 [vinod]

iface eth0 inet dhcp

22:26:54 [talli]

no, i don't

22:27:11 [talli]

so, there should be "iface eth0 inet"?

22:27:23 [vinod]

i can't remember which tool sets this stuff up (i just do it by hand and eventually make it work)

22:27:36 [talli]

ok, cool

22:27:38 [talli]

thanks

22:27:46 [talli]

should there be anyhing after inet?

22:27:47 [vinod]

did that work?

22:27:50 [talli]

lemme try

22:27:57 [vinod]

yeah

22:28:08 [vinod]

'static' or 'dhcp' or something

22:28:21 [vinod]

are you setting up via dhcp? or a static ip

22:28:38 [talli]

static IP

22:28:46 [vinod]

ok. lemme show you mine

22:28:52 [talli]

it says no such interface, device not found

22:29:08 [vinod]

iface eth0 inet static

22:29:08 [vinod]

address 192.168.0.3

22:29:08 [vinod]

network 192.168.0.0

22:29:08 [vinod]

netmask 255.255.255.0

22:29:08 [vinod]

broadcast 192.168.0.255

22:29:37 [vinod]

is that the same error you were getting before, or slightly different

22:31:16 [talli]

slightly different error

22:31:36 [talli]

the os can't seem to find the device

22:32:04 [vinod]

what kind of ethernet card is it?

22:34:14 [talli]

hmm.. dunno. :(

22:34:46 [vinod]

when you went through the install, do you remember if the program detected your network device?

22:35:19 [vinod]

this step: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-init-config.en.html#s-configure-modules

22:37:05 [talli]

no, it didn't, since it asked me for the hostname

22:37:43 [vinod]

d'oh

22:39:14 [talli]

yes, d'oh indeed

22:41:09 [vinod]

what files are in /lib/modules/2.2.19/net (replace 2.2.19) with your kernel version (uname -r)

22:43:30 [talli]

there are a lot of files in there

22:43:32 [talli]

whole bunch

22:43:34 [vinod]

actually, just try running 'modconf'

22:43:44 [talli]

ok

22:43:55 [vinod]

then go down to the 'net' menu option

22:45:37 [talli]

should i just go through the modules until one fits?

22:45:58 [vinod]

yeah, we need to figure out which module corresponds to your ethernet card

22:46:28 [vinod]

then we need to alias eth0 to that module

22:46:40 [vinod]

then ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.3 up

22:51:12 [talli]

ok, thanks alot vinod. appreciate it

22:51:27 [vinod]

sure... hope it works (fingers-crossed)

22:52:17 [talli]

found one that installed!

22:52:25 [talli]

should i try more or is one enough?

22:52:44 [vinod]

lets try it

22:53:01 [talli]

ok, where do i do the alias?

22:53:18 [vinod]

ummmm... good question

22:54:32 [vinod]

ok... put a line at the end of /etc/modutils/aliases

22:54:47 [vinod]

alias eth0 modulename

22:54:58 [talli]

ok, thanks

22:55:00 [vinod]

my module name is dmfe - so alias eth0 dmfe

22:55:15 [vinod]

then run: update-modules

22:59:16 [talli]

no dice :(

22:59:25 [talli]

did all that. maybe i got the wrong module?

23:01:25 [vinod]

could be

23:03:10 [talli]

ok, i got the hand of this. thanks vinod

23:04:02 [vinod]

sure. good luck

23:05:26 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

23:10:31 [denshi]

loggy, what's new in the blog today?

23:11:57 [loggy]

I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'what's new in the blog today'

23:11:58 [loggy]

0) 2002-02-28 23:10:31 <denshi> loggy, what's new in the blog today?

23:12:09 [denshi]

chump, blog?

23:12:09 [denshi]

chump: blogs?

23:12:10 [chump]

Not understood: blogs?

23:12:10 [denshi]

chump: help

23:12:10 [chump]

Post a URL by saying it on a line on its own

23:12:10 [chump]

To post an item without a URL, say BLURB:This is the title

23:12:10 [chump]

I will reply with a label, for example A

23:12:10 [chump]

You can then append comments by saying A:This is a comment

23:12:10 [chump]

To title a link, use a pipe as the first character of the comment

23:12:10 [chump]

Eg. A:|This is the title

23:12:10 [chump]

To see the last 5 links posted, say chump:view

23:12:10 [chump]

For more features, say chump:morehelp

23:12:10 [denshi]

chump:view

23:12:10 [chump]

A: http://www.content-wire.com/Home/Index.cfm?ccs=86&cs=1452

23:12:10 [chump]

B: Debian PowerPC (http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/)

23:12:10 [chump]

C: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00046a&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS

23:12:10 [chump]

D: The Design Experience v4 (http://www.thedesignexperience.org)

23:12:34 [rbm]

* rbm hands denshi /msg

23:14:12 [denshi]

full house here today.

23:15:29 [vinod]

talli: ignore my advice about the alias for now. you only need to do that to have the right module recognized on each reboot

23:15:55 [vinod]

just insert a module and try ifconfig

23:16:06 [vinod]

hey denshi

23:16:13 [denshi]

hey vinod

23:16:23 [denshi]

how's boston this week?

23:16:25 [talli]

vinod: it worked!

23:16:37 [talli]

thanks alot

23:16:55 [vinod]

talli: cool!

23:17:04 [talli]

now, i forget how to upgrade from potato to woody... i changed all of the "stable"s in sources.list to "woody"

23:17:09 [talli]

is it apt-get upgrade?

23:17:15 [vinod]

denshi: boston's ok. i'm trying to move to nyc ;-)

23:17:34 [vinod]

talli: 'apt-get update' first

23:17:39 [talli]

did that

23:17:41 [talli]

then?

23:17:46 [vinod]

then 'apt-get -u upgrade'

23:18:03 [vinod]

sorry s/upgrade/dist-upgrade

23:18:06 [denshi]

apt-get dist-upgrage

23:18:24 [talli]

oh, great

23:18:25 [talli]

thanks

23:18:44 [vinod]

:-)

23:19:49 [talli]

perfect, thanks so much

23:20:05 [denshi]

vinod, your plans to move to nyc worry me. Are you plotting to join with talli to create a pants-free utopia in brooklyn?

23:20:13 [vinod]

np - glad to have another debian convert!

23:20:14 [talli]

hey now

23:20:40 [vinod]

denshi: no, i'm sure once i move down there, talli will be forced to move to kansas or something

23:22:17 [rbm]

paje: blog?

23:22:17 [paje]

no idea, rbm

23:22:25 [rbm]

paje: insult densh

23:22:26 [paje]

densh is nothing but a swag-bellied heap of flap-mouthed snake snot.

23:22:52 [denshi]

paje, I heard that one before. Now be a nice two-sentence parser and insult rbm.

23:22:52 [paje]

denshi: sorry...

23:23:37 [denshi]

so what will you do in nyc, vinod?

23:23:38 [rbm]

Aha! paje recognizes when he must not insult his master!

23:24:50 [talli]

vinod will sell his body on the stages of various exotic male reviews in NYC

23:24:52 [vinod]

denshi: a mix of doctoring and medical informatics, hopefully (but mostly doctoring)

23:24:58 [talli]

you can take that to the bank!

23:25:02 [markd2]

not again

23:25:43 [talli]

yes, markd2, vinod will return to his horrible habits and misled life

23:25:47 [vinod]

sorry markd2 - you were in omaha and i had to make a decision real quick

23:26:01 [vinod]

so i asked talli how he afforded to live in nyc and bingo

23:26:07 [talli]

i too expressed horror and disappointment, but he did not care. he is too far gone...

23:28:00 [markd2]

my prayer circle will prey on his soul

23:28:00 [markd2]

or something like that

23:28:26 [vinod]

ack - keep those prayer circles away from me!

23:28:56 [vinod]

* vinod searches frantically for a pentagram

23:29:25 [markd2]

get your pentacles off of me!

23:29:40 [vinod]

that's what the girl on the subway said to talli

23:30:08 [markd2]

heh

23:30:23 [talli]

mmm... subway girls

23:30:36 [vinod]

did you get another target?

23:30:47 [talli]

not this morning

23:30:59 [talli]

but we'll see on the way home

23:32:33 [vinod]

girls of new york are no longer safe

23:33:18 [talli]

lately, i've taken to wearing my sequined leather jacket with the extra long tassles

23:33:22 [talli]

it seems to work goodly

23:33:44 [vinod]

always on the bleeding edge of fashion

23:35:46 [markd2]

talli is also | a fashion plate

23:36:14 [talli]

i am? i mean, of course i am

23:36:29 [talli]

that's because i put on a lot of mustard in my outfits

23:37:20 [rbm]

rbm has quit ("Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?")

23:39:23 [rbm]

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23:41:54 [vinod]

markd2: you promised 'More ranting tomorrow' in your blog

23:42:50 [markd2]

oh, that's right

23:42:52 [markd2]

I better go rant

23:43:12 [rafa_]

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23:43:25 [rafa_]

rafa_ has quit (Client Quit)

23:44:21 [rafa]

rafa is back

23:44:22 [rafa]

hi

23:44:29 [vinod]

hi rafa

23:44:52 [rafa]

hi vinod, did any of you have time to llokk at the paper I posted yesterday?

23:45:04 [rafa]

s/llokk/look

23:45:15 [talli]

rafa, not very completley yet

23:45:29 [talli]

i've been holding off in posting something until i read it more completely

23:45:34 [vinod]

rafa: i haven't gotten a chance yet (too busy with work). but i have it bookmarked for early next wk

23:45:47 [rafa]

you have *much* more experience with OACS so a checkup on the tech issues would be woud

23:46:09 [rafa]

rbm, vindo: see if is usefull for the docs

23:46:27 [vinod]

will do

23:46:31 [denshi]

rafa, what did you post?

23:46:48 [rbm]

rafa: URL?

23:46:50 [talli]

rafa: the one thing that i would mention is your conclusion that the OACS needs to be ported to apache

23:46:52 [rafa]

is adraft on a paper about OACS as an app framework

23:46:53 [rbm]

* rbm goes to try to munge something together for 0xf00d

23:47:10 [talli]

at least for greater developer acceptance

23:47:18 [rafa]

http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00046Y&topic_id=12&topic=OpenACSÌ%2e0%20Design

23:47:18 [chump]

E: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00046Y&topic_id=12&topic=OpenACSÌ%2e0%20Design from rafa

23:47:42 [talli]

while this may be true, OACS wouldn't be half of what it is without AOLserver's DB API and connectivity

23:47:57 [talli]

so an apache port kinda doesn't make sense

23:48:30 [rafa]

I kind of agree... to some point. David (the coauthor) was much stronger on that

23:48:48 [rafa]

he used to be an Apache web master.. so he is strong about that

23:49:19 [rafa]

the thing is that the user base would be 100 times larger if OACS runedon it

23:49:24 [talli]

ah, ok. but the amount of code you would have to rebuild in order to match aolserver and really port OACS to apache is overwhelming

23:49:47 [talli]

and it woul dbe 1000 times bigger if it used python

23:49:56 [talli]

but neither of those are really the point

23:50:13 [talli]

probably the best part of the stack is AOLserver

23:50:28 [rafa]

is it? if your have mod_tcl modified...

23:50:31 [talli]

forget tcl or PG or oracle, the thing best piece of software in there is AOLserver

23:51:01 [rafa]

its hard to sell that when 61% use apache and most of the other IIS

23:51:03 [talli]

but apache doesn't have the database integration

23:51:26 [rafa]

?

23:51:28 [talli]

well, if your paper is about selling the system, then it's a differnet issue

23:51:50 [talli]

apache doesn't have db pools, the db api, etc

23:51:51 [rafa]

no its not about selling. I was planningto send it to a conference or a SE journal

23:51:57 [talli]

ah, ok

23:52:29 [talli]

then i think the real strength of the OACS is that it leaves the really hard parts of building scalable websites to the webserver

23:52:47 [talli]

and uses a strong SQL compliant data model for RDBMSes

23:53:03 [rafa]

I like more the 2nd one

23:53:20 [talli]

yeah, the second one is more abstract

23:53:33 [talli]

but the first one allows for rapid and reliable development

23:53:57 [rafa]

no I thinks is more practical. the other just starts wars about webservers

23:54:03 [denshi]

rafa: have I already ranted at you about apache?

23:54:06 [rafa]

and passionate loves to older hacks

23:54:17 [talli]

but that's not what the OACS is about

23:54:32 [talli]

there's really no other web app like aolserver

23:55:12 [talli]

so, for instance, if a client were to ask musea which piece of the OACS stack we'd get rid of first, it would be the data model and the tcl code

23:55:16 [rafa]

that is true, the problem is that is different

23:55:25 [talli]

and we'd keep PG and aolserver and build everything with those

23:55:26 [rafa]

and people needs similarities

23:55:42 [talli]

but what are you trying to say with your paper?

23:55:52 [denshi]

* denshi dons his prophet cloak.

23:56:02 [talli]

oh shit. i gotta go

23:56:03 [denshi]

* denshi gazes into 2004.

23:56:07 [rafa]

that OACS is a great tool (the best I know) to build web apps

23:56:15 [rafa]

see you

23:56:42 [denshi]

* denshi sees that when apache2 has had time to stabilize, and they drop all the silly bullshit they're adding right now, apache2.bignum will look very much like aolserver.

23:57:19 [rafa]

you might be right

23:57:23 [talli]

so maybe then it will be worth using apache

23:57:41 [rafa]

talli: thought you wre leaving?

23:57:43 [denshi]

rafa: talli is spot-on about aolserver vs. apache. doing OACS ("oaks") in apache 1.x is stupid, no way around it.

23:57:58 [talli]

yeah, i am. my mom's birthday tonight

23:58:18 [rafa]

so family dinner?

23:58:22 [rafa]

good food?

23:58:54 [talli]

ok, i'm meeting them at the restaurant. yes, good food

23:58:54 [vinod]

vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

23:59:45 [talli]

rafa: OACS was built around AOLserver, with its DB integration centrally in mind

23:59:50 [denshi]

the model is so different, even inferior to aolserver, that the gained network effects of more users (by oacs on apache) would be drowned by the disadvantages of reimplementation on a 1994-style process-based server.