00:03:15 I'm sitting next to an epson ES-1200C that's agreeable, but I'm hardly an oracle on such matters. 00:04:01 The 1200C is supported on Linux. 00:04:39 well, I'll see what models Staples has under $200. I have the list of sane-supported scanners printed out. 00:04:47 s/200/100/ 00:05:27 * rbm goes out 00:05:30 thanks denshi 00:31:06 bbiaw 00:31:08 denshi has quit () 01:02:22 moo 01:56:18 rbm: you are part of a LUG? 02:01:06 re 02:02:08 hi jim. 02:02:15 davb-in-and-out is now known as davb 02:03:37 * jim is here for abt 30 mins 02:05:05 had some qs abt sc 02:05:21 err, hmm :) that made no sense :) 02:05:31 had some questions about sc 02:05:37 better :) 02:06:09 ok. 02:07:35 first... I see contracts and operations and implementations and interfaces... 02:08:17 and I looked at (not ran) the example's sql create script 02:09:10 how does sc tie into packages? 02:09:50 one package would define a contract. other packages provide an implementation of the contract. 02:10:17 must all other existing packages provide an implementation? 02:10:30 no. 02:11:00 basically if you want to interface with the service provided by the contract, you create an implementation. 02:11:03 I see, so the tiein point is sc 02:11:32 yes. the contract specifying package asks acs-sc about the implementations. 02:13:29 I am looking at it more. I am trying to figure out how it knows which implementation to dispatch. 02:13:59 ok 02:15:25 it looks like is uses an object_type... 02:15:44 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02:15:48 but I am guessing :) 02:16:03 so you're looking at acs_sc_call? 02:16:26 no, but that would probably be a good idea. 02:16:51 hi guys 02:16:59 hi 02:17:05 hello rafa 02:18:26 I just posted something in the forum, maybe you can help? 02:18:39 aha: acs_sc_call FtsContentProvider datasource [list $object_id] $object_type] 02:18:58 the object_type happens to match the name of the implementation for the search service contracts. 02:19:28 we could probably require/suggest anyone who creates an object_type provides a delete implentation for that type. 02:19:35 although I am not sure that is the way to go. 02:19:35 talli (~talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 02:20:30 rafa: i have done it, I think your syntax is wrong.. what , if any, message did you get when you tried that. 02:20:50 no message 02:21:18 I was logged as postgres 02:21:40 it did this: "You must drop your database and user and recreate 02:21:40 the user, answering "yes" when asked if the new user should be able to 02:21:40 create 02:21:40 other users. 02:21:40 " 02:22:24 as I mentioned in the post, I didn't wantto drop the db because I had some data 02:23:08 ah, right. 02:23:31 there was a way of duplicating the db, but I cant rememebre it. 02:24:17 besides pg_dump? 02:24:33 anyway, your syntax looks ok. I am not sure why it doesn't work. 02:24:47 it might be that the permissions is not appiled to the database that was already created. 02:25:12 I am afraid that there is something else done by the new kernel. 02:25:30 why does it need to create new DB users? 02:27:14 I am not sure. i don't think it actually creates new users, but it allows something to work :) 02:27:21 sorry for being vague... 02:28:03 it's Ok. what else can I do to be sure I don't loose, the users and other thing I have in there? 02:28:23 pg_dump might not do it, if there is a change in the DM 02:28:40 I am pretty sure there IS a change in the datamodel, when did you last update? 02:28:57 today, before that in Nov. 02:29:07 ah. yes alot of changes. 02:29:33 there really isn't an upgrade path between different CVS versions. 02:30:06 so the best way out is copying user names/emails on a piece of paper, dump and start again? 02:30:34 well you could probably write some sort of script to do it, thats just not my area or expertise :) 02:31:09 I have 15 users I care about... is not a big site :-) 02:31:35 you are running a production site (small) on that code from november. very impressive. 02:32:17 well as I don't have many users... but people logged in, posted in the bboard and used an app that I am writing 02:32:42 docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:33:16 I am sure you could import the data, just not exactly sure how :) 02:34:50 I wonder about the future.. doing it every 3 months is not fun.. I guess that is the problem of beng in the bleeding edge :-( 02:35:11 yeah. after beta, there will be a freeze on the datamodel, bug fixes only. 02:35:38 and official upgrade scripts are planned for upgrading between official releases. 02:38:59 yes... 02:39:14 I hope we have that realease soon! 02:40:28 we are working on it! :) hopefully beta will be this weekend. 02:41:29 shagster has quit ("[BX] PARTYTIME! 5 seconds to the millenium! 4...3...2...1...EOF From client") 02:42:49 davb: if the implementation and interface can be all in .sql, and can call the implementation, it would be cool to get all that and the pkg instance delete contract (with no implementations yet) into the beta 02:43:31 jim: the implementations can be is pl/pgsql, but there is to pl/pgsql dispatcher. they have to be called from Tcl. 02:43:37 (does that make sense?) 02:43:59 but we would put the skeleton in there. 02:44:07 it does, but it's unfortunate... 02:44:12 and add it to each package as we can. 02:44:33 neophytos is planning to add that support. I am not sure what the status is. 02:44:39 is it because it's hard to get multiple arguments to functions in there? 02:44:53 I am not sure. I haven't investigated it myself. 02:45:13 I can email neophytos and ask what issues need to be addressed. 02:45:33 if he's planning on allowing everything to be in many pl/sql funcs, we should wait before changing anything 02:45:54 (we should sync with that, I think) 02:46:50 (i.e., should be possible to put everything involved in stored procs) 02:46:55 do you want my to CC you on the email? 02:47:06 right. 02:47:17 I think that is a goal, for it to be an option. 02:47:31 please, and have him reply to the cc too... jim@laney.edu 02:47:37 ok. 02:47:44 ok, gottago 02:47:56 ok thanks. 02:48:00 be back, not sure when, max 3 hours 02:48:16 I will be gone, back tomorrow afternoon... 02:48:18 :) 02:55:04 can OpenACS do multi-question surveys? 03:00:44 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 05:29:11 paje has quit ("regrouping; bbiab") 05:54:06 chrismj (~chrismj@cs6668179-9.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs 05:54:43 got a quick quesion: I've been hunting around openacs.org for quite some time now 05:55:06 and I'm looking for documentation on how to get openacs running with apache+postgres on linux 05:55:14 openacs 4.x that is 05:55:20 Hmm. There isn't any. 05:55:24 k 05:55:52 does no one do apache+acs+pg? 05:56:02 What you can do, and it's easier is to have apache listening on port 80 and using mod_proxy to grab requests from AOLserver listening on a different port. 05:56:13 mod_aolserver for apache hasn't been tested with OACS 4 05:56:18 At least AFAIX 05:56:21 s/X/K/ 05:56:40 ok, that's kinda what I gathered: "just use aolserver" that's cool with me... 05:56:53 is that the general consensus? 05:58:32 the other thing I was wondering about was the theme-ability of oacs4--are pages still bland, or is there some templating? 06:01:02 also: where to get all the modules: are they in the monolithic download, or should I get random ones from arsdigita.com? 06:09:02 don't know if my last post made it: where do I get the modules for oacs4? are they part of the monolithic download? 06:10:07 OpenACS modules are all under CVS. 06:10:20 Right now they are all under the tarball 06:10:41 I don't know what you mean by themeability, but full templating is there. 06:12:53 thx. adequate for now--I will install and give it a try to see how it works. 06:13:35 I guess I'm generally a little discouraged by the difficulty figuring out what's a recommended install path and files from the website, i.e. lack of documentation 06:13:45 e.g.: "all modules are in this latest tarball" 06:14:47 chrismj: There is a lack of visible documentation, but we're working on it. Remember we're still reaching beta. 06:15:19 true. if my progress allows, I would like to contribute as well 06:16:29 chrismj: The install doc for example, is almost totally ready 06:18:59 it's in cvs? then maybe I should be working off cvs. any significant reason I shouldn't (I do want things functioning) 06:22:17 I would work off cvs 06:22:45 We're releasing beta this week, so whatever's on CVS is very close to what will be beta. 06:24:34 sweet. when this week? when it's ready... but this is exciting! 06:28:59 it should have been this weekend, but I didn't finish something. 07:12:56 oh, hey, should I download opennsd or aolserver? 07:20:40 aolserver 07:20:44 3.3ad13 07:20:50 openacs.org/software.adp 07:23:42 doesn't appear to be on that web page--I just see aolserver rpms for 3.2ad12 etc. 07:26:11 getting it from (using google) arsdigita.com: aolserver3.3+ad13 src 07:27:10 http://www.kurup.com/acs/openacs4/index.html 07:27:10 A: http://www.kurup.com/acs/openacs4/index.html from chrismj 07:27:38 aha! found the link for some upgraded documentation (seemingly) 07:28:04 hi 07:28:35 rbm: I was looking at the new documentation, is really good! congrats 07:29:00 rafa: where is that? 07:29:23 when you install OACS4x, go to yoursite/doc 07:30:01 rbm: maybe we could create a copy of the docs, for openacs.org? 07:30:15 ok, I'm in the install stage--I just got aolserver 3.3+ad13 from arsdigita.com and the nightly tarball of oacs4 from openacs.org--is that right? 07:30:23 just copying from an install to openacs.org/doc4? 07:30:53 chrismj: seems right 07:31:24 rafa: thanks, but lots of people contributed to it. 07:31:40 I know, but you got the logo in there :-) 07:31:43 I can't probably even say that I'm the biggest contributor. Probably vinod deserves that title. 07:32:14 that's ok, it is great effort 07:32:43 I am having some problems with adding users to groups 07:32:52 d'u mind? 07:33:46 i posted the prob in the testing bborad 07:36:04 rafa: I'm trying to get my scanner setup so I can scan something that I need for tomorrow. 07:36:20 ok, thanks 07:36:28 must be late there? 07:36:43 12:38 AM 07:37:53 ok 07:37:58 lunch time 07:43:34 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 08:31:44 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08:44:30 ok, I'm really trying to install aolserver now... which version should I install? from where? 08:45:19 3.4 08:45:31 from where is a good question 08:45:43 i've used the aolserver.com distro 08:45:56 their is an ad distro floating around as well 08:46:09 that contains some unicode byte encoding patches 08:46:38 either one should work 08:48:27 ok, how about the one from uptime.openacs.org/aolserver-openacs ? 08:48:45 I can't figure out which files and documents are really the latest and relevant, just a general problem I'm having 08:52:31 ok, using the one I just got from the link posted; that seems to be simpler 09:22:06 ok, now--how to get access to cvs? to get the latest oacs source? I can't find it on the web site 09:23:36 think I got it from google. the info is randomly distributed! 09:28:17 chrismj: http://openacs.org/4/ 09:28:25 link from top of openacs.org 09:36:49 http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002UL&topic_id=OpenACS&topic=11 09:36:49 B: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002UL&topic_id=OpenACS&topic=11 from chrismj 10:31:08 chrismj has left #openacs 13:26:41 talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 17:22:02 morning 17:22:17 hey hazmat 17:22:31 hi talli 17:31:14 awful quiet round here. 18:12:38 vinod (~vinod@209-122-236-91.s2472.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 18:24:08 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 18:30:48 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 18:31:02 hi there 18:32:10 hey davb 18:32:46 don't believe anything I say today, I had my wisdom teeth out this morning and the drugs are good. 18:32:50 :) 18:33:41 oh, that reminds me. 18:33:53 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 18:33:58 hi davb 18:34:26 I was replying to your message and I thought that it would be easier to come over here and do it interactively... 18:34:27 hi jim 18:34:34 paje: seen davb,jim? 18:34:58 good morning k2pts 18:35:01 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 18:35:04 hi hazmata 18:35:09 or evening as the case may be ;) 18:35:11 s/hazmata/hazmat 18:35:16 evening 18:37:01 hi k2pts 18:37:05 hey davb 18:37:12 bbiam 18:37:16 ok 18:39:19 they must have used alot of novacaine also, my face is still numb since 8 am 18:40:47 hey davb 18:40:52 enjoying your drugs, huh? 18:41:30 not too much...I still really can't eat anything :( 18:41:49 bummer 18:44:09 I am going to download Lycoris Desktop/LX it looks pretty neat, but the windows xp-alike wallpaper has to go! 18:45:16 is that a window manager? 18:46:06 nope. linux distro 18:46:15 ahh 18:47:01 they got a really favorable review for easy install and hardware setup. plus all the apps they include work. 18:47:14 I might put it on a PC I am building for my brother. :) 18:47:55 he hasn't had a computer in a few years, so he has not been indoctrinated to windows 18:48:33 back 18:48:36 excellent. a clean slate to work with :-) 18:48:39 hi k2pts 18:48:43 hey vinod 18:48:47 thanks for the patch 18:49:52 sure, np 18:50:54 davb: That was initially the plan to support interfaces at the sql level as well. However, after using a-s-c for half a year now I think that's not necessary anymore. You can wrap your pl/[pg]sql functions in tcl functions so that your implementation is in TCL. a-s-c is going to be revambed in the next release cycle I hope...we're gonna move stuff from the db into xml files... 18:51:36 davb: wrapping your pl/[pg]sql functions as tcl functions is adviced 18:52:41 davb: btw, I think that your idea (and Jim's) is great. It would be wonderful to have that in the next release cycle... 18:52:51 cool. 18:53:09 * hazmat wishes at least some design discussion would take place in a public forum. 18:53:21 * k2pts wishes he had time to do so :) 18:54:37 k2pts: ok. I thought that might be the answer. 18:54:50 davb: let me know if you have any problems 18:55:38 we will have to restructure the tcl that calls apm_package.delete to call the package contents delete service contract first. that way the tcl can detect if it was sucessful or not and also warn the user what he is doing. 18:55:43 k2pts: thanks. np 18:56:19 hazmat: anything in particular? 18:56:20 davb: I meant to apply your patches but if I try any harder, I'll tear into two parts :) very soon I hope 18:56:45 k2pts: no problem at all. we were pretty actice this weekend. 18:56:46 davb: how bout anything in particular... 18:57:23 there is little record of the openacs4 dev activities outside of the private email archives of the developers, imo. 18:57:30 heh, ok good point. 18:57:56 we probably should bring this up on the bboard. 18:57:57 its a point i've been trying to make for over a year. 18:58:07 I think the main problem is that you can't reply to the bboard by email. 18:58:20 which is why dev. should move to a mailing list :) 18:58:32 talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 18:58:36 if the disucssion was on a mailing list, it would save the developers time, but it would all be archived at the bboard. 18:58:53 but then we still have to get them to use it. 18:59:07 hey guys 18:59:08 * k2pts doesn't like mailing lists :) 18:59:11 hey talli 18:59:11 lets get talli to do it. 18:59:16 yeah :) 18:59:17 hey talli 18:59:18 done! 18:59:23 what am i doing? 18:59:25 k2pts: then you can read the bboard! :) 18:59:45 can anyone recommend a good IRC client for KDE? 18:59:49 ksirc 19:00:06 that's what i'm using. is there anything better? 19:00:17 not that i know of that is *kde* 19:00:29 but i use chatzilla and xchat a bit 19:00:35 talli: I figure we can volunteer you to request all development discussion be public. 19:00:40 ksirc's multi window interface is annoying. 19:00:41 i'll do it 19:00:50 of course, I have been privately emailing luke about ETP :) 19:01:08 * hazmat sends talli a moral support card ;) 19:01:16 i can care less about my reputation in the community :) 19:01:20 I still think a bboard per package is a good idea. are we doing that? with a big unified bboard that ties them together? 19:01:22 hey talli 19:01:25 i think you're all nerds and dorks, so what woudl i care? 19:01:28 especially denshi 19:01:33 it seems like a reasonable request. 19:01:37 this is open source right? 19:02:11 I think even if I couldn't offer useful help on alot of core stuff, I would learn from seeing the process. 19:02:15 it's totally reasonable 19:02:29 especially since so much is being done in the dark. 19:04:05 brb 19:04:11 talli has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1") 19:05:12 davb: a bboard per project would be better, e.g. web services (I'll volunteer for that one -- I have some new stuff coming in that area) 19:05:51 k2pts: cool! 19:06:21 I wish I had time to fool around with all the stuff I am interested in... 19:06:33 same here, everybody is after me these days :) 19:06:44 What I really need it to get paid to hack on OpenACS during the day so I can do the fun stuff after work. 19:07:10 * vinod drops a nickel into davb's jar 19:07:17 woohoo! 19:07:52 * vinod looks from his empty jar to the nickel in davb's jar 19:07:57 * hazmat collects taxes on the nickle :-) 19:08:03 haha 19:10:12 have to head out guys, later 19:10:14 k2pts has left #openacs 19:11:37 bbiab - gotta use the phone 19:11:40 vinod has left #openacs 19:11:54 * hazmat pities vinods dial up access 19:13:16 * davb was very lucky they have cable modem access where he bought his house 19:26:23 talli (~chatzilla@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 19:26:41 yoyoyo 19:27:37 oyoyoy 19:29:04 so what is this that i've volunteered to do? 19:34:18 ask for more development discussion to take place openly on the bboards 19:34:39 much is lost from the community 19:35:05 when these discussions and knowledge are only kept in the priviliged few's personal email archives. 19:37:20 bartt (~chatzilla@dsl-64-34-176-81.telocity.com) has joined #openacs 20:00:02 talli has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.5 [Mozilla rv:0.9.8/20020204]") 20:00:44 talli (~chatzilla@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 20:08:36 I have a question. Does anyone know if you can have an ADP or TCL 404 error page? 20:11:50 davb: I think so. 20:12:05 ok. I tried it, but may have done it wrong :) 20:29:23 talli has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:02:15 til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 21:04:14 davb: are you guilty of all this swhack nonsense? 21:05:14 talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 21:06:27 in what way? 21:06:32 sounds like AaronSw 21:06:51 what did aaron do now? 21:09:18 aaron runs Loggy, I am only responsible for chump. 21:09:26 ah, yeah, loggy 21:09:29 that's actually my issue 21:09:38 loggy sits on a server on my office network 21:09:47 oh yeah. 21:09:59 i don't know what the issue is, though, becuase i'm at the office and i get fine connectivity 21:10:10 i think that the issue is the ISP that provides our T1 sucks 21:10:47 loggy actually has been very stable. 21:11:00 can you get to blogspace now? 21:11:07 i can ping it from my computer 21:12:40 yep 21:13:32 what's new, talli? 21:13:54 not much, denshi. how are you? 21:14:20 more of the same. closing in on housing in austin. 21:14:41 ugh. finding a place to live is always a beeeyatch 21:14:51 it certainly is. 21:15:13 thankfully I know some actual human landlords in austin. 21:16:43 my experiences with the faceless corps that own most apartments have given me sympathy with serial killers. 21:17:14 when I get my cage of attack lawyers, I'm devoting 3 just to apartment defense. 21:17:41 have you guys seen Gilbert Wong's site he just posted to the OACS bboards? 21:17:57 he either did some killer work in making new bboards, or he did some killer work templating the bboards. 21:18:01 either way, very cool! 21:18:25 yeah, they look pretty good. 21:18:27 and fast. 21:18:35 yeah 21:18:52 talli: I am download lycoris desktop/lx. it is supposed to be a easy to install linux distro. 21:19:07 yeah, it used to be redmon linux, right? 21:19:13 saw that on /. yesterday 21:19:13 yes. 21:19:16 which link? 21:19:30 nevermind.. 21:23:19 i'm using Redhat on one of my desktops, and i'm kinda pissed that installing stuff with rpms is such a bitch 21:23:32 we warned you :) 21:23:44 the redhat package manager isn't that good either. at least, i don't want to think when i install it 21:23:58 yeah, but debian has given me more of a headache than anything else 21:24:24 maybe that new linux based on corel's version (which is based on debian) will be worth something 21:24:24 you need someone to insall it for you :) once it is installed it works great. 21:24:39 i also am no fan of ximian 21:24:42 oh? cool. Corels installer was really nice. 21:24:48 evolution and gnome are very cool 21:24:59 me neither. I practically hosed my entire system with Ximian gnome. 21:25:11 but ximian is rubbing me the wrong way with red-carpet and other stuff. they are doing some serious lock in, or at least trying to 21:25:18 I still have so little bits that don't work. 21:25:20 davb, have you tried Rox? 21:25:26 nope? 21:25:42 http://rox.sourceforge.net/ 21:25:42 C: http://rox.sourceforge.net/ from talli 21:25:54 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 21:26:02 davb: are you around? 21:26:06 yes I am. 21:26:07 C: "The ROX Desktop is an easy to use (and understand!) graphical desktop for Unix and Linux. It's also small and free, so give it a try!" 21:26:07 commented item C 21:26:07 hey guys 21:26:11 yo k2pts 21:26:16 hey talli 21:26:23 davb: about your question in the forums 21:26:29 I don't like the desktops. I have gone minimalist with XFCE. 21:26:46 yeah, rox is pretty minimalist, though 21:26:50 it's supposed to be very small and fast 21:26:54 oh cool. 21:27:01 the thing about it is that apps are stored in a central location 21:27:34 I usually just use an xterm to start programs so I really don't need too many menus :) 21:27:44 ah, so you're a serious nerd... 21:27:45 davb: change ns_returnnotfound in request-processor-procs.tcl to rp_serve_abstract_file [acs_root_dir]/www/global/notfound.adp 21:27:51 sourceforge is timing out, I'll check later. 21:27:59 ok, cool 21:28:04 k2pts: thanks! 21:28:19 can I template that too? 21:28:35 no big deal if I can't. 21:29:11 np 21:29:15 yes 21:29:21 yes you can template it 21:29:46 hmmm. maybe that should be standard in OpenACS 4 with a sample nice 404 page... 21:30:04 cool. 21:30:08 I'll check my changes soon...been busy as you know already since the last time I logged in :) 21:30:22 I want to add search to the 404 page. 21:30:31 you can do it 21:30:33