IRC log of openacs on 2002-02-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:15 [denshi]
I'm sitting next to an epson ES-1200C that's agreeable, but I'm hardly an oracle on such matters.
00:04:01 [rbm]
The 1200C is supported on Linux.
00:04:39 [rbm]
well, I'll see what models Staples has under $200. I have the list of sane-supported scanners printed out.
00:04:47 [rbm]
s/200/100/
00:05:27 [rbm]
* rbm goes out
00:05:30 [rbm]
thanks denshi
00:31:06 [denshi]
bbiaw
00:31:08 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
01:02:22 [rbm]
moo
01:56:18 [davb-in-and-out]
rbm: you are part of a LUG?
02:01:06 [jim]
re
02:02:08 [davb-in-and-out]
hi jim.
02:02:15 [davb-in-and-out]
davb-in-and-out is now known as davb
02:03:37 [jim]
* jim is here for abt 30 mins
02:05:05 [jim]
had some qs abt sc
02:05:21 [jim]
err, hmm :) that made no sense :)
02:05:31 [jim]
had some questions about sc
02:05:37 [jim]
better :)
02:06:09 [davb]
ok.
02:07:35 [jim]
first... I see contracts and operations and implementations and interfaces...
02:08:17 [jim]
and I looked at (not ran) the example's sql create script
02:09:10 [jim]
how does sc tie into packages?
02:09:50 [davb]
one package would define a contract. other packages provide an implementation of the contract.
02:10:17 [jim]
must all other existing packages provide an implementation?
02:10:30 [davb]
no.
02:11:00 [davb]
basically if you want to interface with the service provided by the contract, you create an implementation.
02:11:03 [jim]
I see, so the tiein point is sc
02:11:32 [davb]
yes. the contract specifying package asks acs-sc about the implementations.
02:13:29 [davb]
I am looking at it more. I am trying to figure out how it knows which implementation to dispatch.
02:13:59 [jim]
ok
02:15:25 [davb]
it looks like is uses an object_type...
02:15:44 [talli]
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02:15:48 [davb]
but I am guessing :)
02:16:03 [jim]
so you're looking at acs_sc_call?
02:16:26 [davb]
no, but that would probably be a good idea.
02:16:51 [rafa]
hi guys
02:16:59 [jim]
hi
02:17:05 [davb]
hello rafa
02:18:26 [rafa]
I just posted something in the forum, maybe you can help?
02:18:39 [davb]
aha: acs_sc_call FtsContentProvider datasource [list $object_id] $object_type]
02:18:58 [davb]
the object_type happens to match the name of the implementation for the search service contracts.
02:19:28 [davb]
we could probably require/suggest anyone who creates an object_type provides a delete implentation for that type.
02:19:35 [davb]
although I am not sure that is the way to go.
02:19:35 [talli]
talli (~talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
02:20:30 [davb]
rafa: i have done it, I think your syntax is wrong.. what , if any, message did you get when you tried that.
02:20:50 [rafa]
no message
02:21:18 [rafa]
I was logged as postgres
02:21:40 [davb]
it did this: "You must drop your database and user and recreate
02:21:40 [davb]
the user, answering "yes" when asked if the new user should be able to
02:21:40 [davb]
create
02:21:40 [davb]
other users.
02:21:40 [davb]
"
02:22:24 [rafa]
as I mentioned in the post, I didn't wantto drop the db because I had some data
02:23:08 [davb]
ah, right.
02:23:31 [rafa]
there was a way of duplicating the db, but I cant rememebre it.
02:24:17 [davb]
besides pg_dump?
02:24:33 [davb]
anyway, your syntax looks ok. I am not sure why it doesn't work.
02:24:47 [davb]
it might be that the permissions is not appiled to the database that was already created.
02:25:12 [rafa]
I am afraid that there is something else done by the new kernel.
02:25:30 [rafa]
why does it need to create new DB users?
02:27:14 [davb]
I am not sure. i don't think it actually creates new users, but it allows something to work :)
02:27:21 [davb]
sorry for being vague...
02:28:03 [rafa]
it's Ok. what else can I do to be sure I don't loose, the users and other thing I have in there?
02:28:23 [rafa]
pg_dump might not do it, if there is a change in the DM
02:28:40 [davb]
I am pretty sure there IS a change in the datamodel, when did you last update?
02:28:57 [rafa]
today, before that in Nov.
02:29:07 [davb]
ah. yes alot of changes.
02:29:33 [davb]
there really isn't an upgrade path between different CVS versions.
02:30:06 [rafa]
so the best way out is copying user names/emails on a piece of paper, dump and start again?
02:30:34 [davb]
well you could probably write some sort of script to do it, thats just not my area or expertise :)
02:31:09 [rafa]
I have 15 users I care about... is not a big site :-)
02:31:35 [davb]
you are running a production site (small) on that code from november. very impressive.
02:32:17 [rafa]
well as I don't have many users... but people logged in, posted in the bboard and used an app that I am writing
02:32:42 [docwolf]
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02:33:16 [davb]
I am sure you could import the data, just not exactly sure how :)
02:34:50 [rafa]
I wonder about the future.. doing it every 3 months is not fun.. I guess that is the problem of beng in the bleeding edge :-(
02:35:11 [davb]
yeah. after beta, there will be a freeze on the datamodel, bug fixes only.
02:35:38 [davb]
and official upgrade scripts are planned for upgrading between official releases.
02:38:59 [rafa]
yes...
02:39:14 [rafa]
I hope we have that realease soon!
02:40:28 [davb]
we are working on it! :) hopefully beta will be this weekend.
02:41:29 [shagster]
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02:42:49 [jim]
davb: if the implementation and interface can be all in .sql, and can call the implementation, it would be cool to get all that and the pkg instance delete contract (with no implementations yet) into the beta
02:43:31 [davb]
jim: the implementations can be is pl/pgsql, but there is to pl/pgsql dispatcher. they have to be called from Tcl.
02:43:37 [davb]
(does that make sense?)
02:43:59 [davb]
but we would put the skeleton in there.
02:44:07 [jim]
it does, but it's unfortunate...
02:44:12 [davb]
and add it to each package as we can.
02:44:33 [davb]
neophytos is planning to add that support. I am not sure what the status is.
02:44:39 [jim]
is it because it's hard to get multiple arguments to functions in there?
02:44:53 [davb]
I am not sure. I haven't investigated it myself.
02:45:13 [davb]
I can email neophytos and ask what issues need to be addressed.
02:45:33 [jim]
if he's planning on allowing everything to be in many pl/sql funcs, we should wait before changing anything
02:45:54 [jim]
(we should sync with that, I think)
02:46:50 [jim]
(i.e., should be possible to put everything involved in stored procs)
02:46:55 [davb]
do you want my to CC you on the email?
02:47:06 [davb]
right.
02:47:17 [davb]
I think that is a goal, for it to be an option.
02:47:31 [jim]
please, and have him reply to the cc too... jim@laney.edu
02:47:37 [davb]
ok.
02:47:44 [jim]
ok, gottago
02:47:56 [davb]
ok thanks.
02:48:00 [jim]
be back, not sure when, max 3 hours
02:48:16 [davb]
I will be gone, back tomorrow afternoon...
02:48:18 [davb]
:)
02:55:04 [davb]
can OpenACS do multi-question surveys?
03:00:44 [davb]
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05:29:11 [paje]
paje has quit ("regrouping; bbiab")
05:54:06 [chrismj]
chrismj (~chrismj@cs6668179-9.austin.rr.com) has joined #openacs
05:54:43 [chrismj]
got a quick quesion: I've been hunting around openacs.org for quite some time now
05:55:06 [chrismj]
and I'm looking for documentation on how to get openacs running with apache+postgres on linux
05:55:14 [chrismj]
openacs 4.x that is
05:55:20 [rbm]
Hmm. There isn't any.
05:55:24 [chrismj]
k
05:55:52 [chrismj]
does no one do apache+acs+pg?
05:56:02 [rbm]
What you can do, and it's easier is to have apache listening on port 80 and using mod_proxy to grab requests from AOLserver listening on a different port.
05:56:13 [rbm]
mod_aolserver for apache hasn't been tested with OACS 4
05:56:18 [rbm]
At least AFAIX
05:56:21 [rbm]
s/X/K/
05:56:40 [chrismj]
ok, that's kinda what I gathered: "just use aolserver" that's cool with me...
05:56:53 [chrismj]
is that the general consensus?
05:58:32 [chrismj]
the other thing I was wondering about was the theme-ability of oacs4--are pages still bland, or is there some templating?
06:01:02 [chrismj]
also: where to get all the modules: are they in the monolithic download, or should I get random ones from arsdigita.com?
06:09:02 [chrismj]
don't know if my last post made it: where do I get the modules for oacs4? are they part of the monolithic download?
06:10:07 [rbm]
OpenACS modules are all under CVS.
06:10:20 [rbm]
Right now they are all under the tarball
06:10:41 [rbm]
I don't know what you mean by themeability, but full templating is there.
06:12:53 [chrismj]
thx. adequate for now--I will install and give it a try to see how it works.
06:13:35 [chrismj]
I guess I'm generally a little discouraged by the difficulty figuring out what's a recommended install path and files from the website, i.e. lack of documentation
06:13:45 [chrismj]
e.g.: "all modules are in this latest tarball"
06:14:47 [rbm]
chrismj: There is a lack of visible documentation, but we're working on it. Remember we're still reaching beta.
06:15:19 [chrismj]
true. if my progress allows, I would like to contribute as well
06:16:29 [rbm]
chrismj: The install doc for example, is almost totally ready
06:18:59 [chrismj]
it's in cvs? then maybe I should be working off cvs. any significant reason I shouldn't (I do want things functioning)
06:22:17 [rbm]
I would work off cvs
06:22:45 [rbm]
We're releasing beta this week, so whatever's on CVS is very close to what will be beta.
06:24:34 [chrismj]
sweet. when this week? when it's ready... but this is exciting!
06:28:59 [rbm]
it should have been this weekend, but I didn't finish something.
07:12:56 [chrismj]
oh, hey, should I download opennsd or aolserver?
07:20:40 [rbm]
aolserver
07:20:44 [rbm]
3.3ad13
07:20:50 [rbm]
openacs.org/software.adp
07:23:42 [chrismj]
doesn't appear to be on that web page--I just see aolserver rpms for 3.2ad12 etc.
07:26:11 [chrismj]
getting it from (using google) arsdigita.com: aolserver3.3+ad13 src
07:27:10 [chrismj]
http://www.kurup.com/acs/openacs4/index.html
07:27:10 [chump]
A: http://www.kurup.com/acs/openacs4/index.html from chrismj
07:27:38 [chrismj]
aha! found the link for some upgraded documentation (seemingly)
07:28:04 [rafa]
hi
07:28:35 [rafa]
rbm: I was looking at the new documentation, is really good! congrats
07:29:00 [chrismj]
rafa: where is that?
07:29:23 [rafa]
when you install OACS4x, go to yoursite/doc
07:30:01 [rafa]
rbm: maybe we could create a copy of the docs, for openacs.org?
07:30:15 [chrismj]
ok, I'm in the install stage--I just got aolserver 3.3+ad13 from arsdigita.com and the nightly tarball of oacs4 from openacs.org--is that right?
07:30:23 [rafa]
just copying from an install to openacs.org/doc4?
07:30:53 [rafa]
chrismj: seems right
07:31:24 [rbm]
rafa: thanks, but lots of people contributed to it.
07:31:40 [rafa]
I know, but you got the logo in there :-)
07:31:43 [rbm]
I can't probably even say that I'm the biggest contributor. Probably vinod deserves that title.
07:32:14 [rafa]
that's ok, it is great effort
07:32:43 [rafa]
I am having some problems with adding users to groups
07:32:52 [rafa]
d'u mind?
07:33:46 [rafa]
i posted the prob in the testing bborad
07:36:04 [rbm]
rafa: I'm trying to get my scanner setup so I can scan something that I need for tomorrow.
07:36:20 [rafa]
ok, thanks
07:36:28 [rafa]
must be late there?
07:36:43 [rbm]
12:38 AM
07:37:53 [rafa]
ok
07:37:58 [rafa]
lunch time
07:43:34 [andyn]
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08:31:44 [talli]
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08:44:30 [chrismj]
ok, I'm really trying to install aolserver now... which version should I install? from where?
08:45:19 [hazmat]
3.4
08:45:31 [hazmat]
from where is a good question
08:45:43 [hazmat]
i've used the aolserver.com distro
08:45:56 [hazmat]
their is an ad distro floating around as well
08:46:09 [hazmat]
that contains some unicode byte encoding patches
08:46:38 [hazmat]
either one should work
08:48:27 [chrismj]
ok, how about the one from uptime.openacs.org/aolserver-openacs ?
08:48:45 [chrismj]
I can't figure out which files and documents are really the latest and relevant, just a general problem I'm having
08:52:31 [chrismj]
ok, using the one I just got from the link posted; that seems to be simpler
09:22:06 [chrismj]
ok, now--how to get access to cvs? to get the latest oacs source? I can't find it on the web site
09:23:36 [chrismj]
think I got it from google. the info is randomly distributed!
09:28:17 [rbm]
chrismj: http://openacs.org/4/
09:28:25 [rbm]
link from top of openacs.org
09:36:49 [chrismj]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002UL&topic_id=OpenACS&topic=11
09:36:49 [chump]
B: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002UL&topic_id=OpenACS&topic=11 from chrismj
10:31:08 [chrismj]
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13:26:41 [talli]
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17:22:02 [hazmat]
morning
17:22:17 [talli]
hey hazmat
17:22:31 [hazmat]
hi talli
17:31:14 [hazmat]
awful quiet round here.
18:12:38 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@209-122-236-91.s2472.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
18:24:08 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
18:30:48 [davb]
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18:31:02 [davb]
hi there
18:32:10 [denshi]
hey davb
18:32:46 [davb]
don't believe anything I say today, I had my wisdom teeth out this morning and the drugs are good.
18:32:50 [davb]
:)
18:33:41 [denshi]
oh, that reminds me.
18:33:53 [k2pts]
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18:33:58 [k2pts]
hi davb
18:34:26 [k2pts]
I was replying to your message and I thought that it would be easier to come over here and do it interactively...
18:34:27 [k2pts]
hi jim
18:34:34 [k2pts]
paje: seen davb,jim?
18:34:58 [hazmat]
good morning k2pts
18:35:01 [talli]
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18:35:04 [k2pts]
hi hazmata
18:35:09 [hazmat]
or evening as the case may be ;)
18:35:11 [k2pts]
s/hazmata/hazmat
18:35:16 [k2pts]
evening
18:37:01 [davb]
hi k2pts
18:37:05 [k2pts]
hey davb
18:37:12 [k2pts]
bbiam
18:37:16 [davb]
ok
18:39:19 [davb]
they must have used alot of novacaine also, my face is still numb since 8 am
18:40:47 [vinod]
hey davb
18:40:52 [vinod]
enjoying your drugs, huh?
18:41:30 [davb]
not too much...I still really can't eat anything :(
18:41:49 [vinod]
bummer
18:44:09 [davb]
I am going to download Lycoris Desktop/LX it looks pretty neat, but the windows xp-alike wallpaper has to go!
18:45:16 [vinod]
is that a window manager?
18:46:06 [davb]
nope. linux distro
18:46:15 [vinod]
ahh
18:47:01 [davb]
they got a really favorable review for easy install and hardware setup. plus all the apps they include work.
18:47:14 [davb]
I might put it on a PC I am building for my brother. :)
18:47:55 [davb]
he hasn't had a computer in a few years, so he has not been indoctrinated to windows
18:48:33 [k2pts]
back
18:48:36 [vinod]
excellent. a clean slate to work with :-)
18:48:39 [vinod]
hi k2pts
18:48:43 [k2pts]
hey vinod
18:48:47 [k2pts]
thanks for the patch
18:49:52 [vinod]
sure, np
18:50:54 [k2pts]
davb: That was initially the plan to support interfaces at the sql level as well. However, after using a-s-c for half a year now I think that's not necessary anymore. You can wrap your pl/[pg]sql functions in tcl functions so that your implementation is in TCL. a-s-c is going to be revambed in the next release cycle I hope...we're gonna move stuff from the db into xml files...
18:51:36 [k2pts]
davb: wrapping your pl/[pg]sql functions as tcl functions is adviced
18:52:41 [k2pts]
davb: btw, I think that your idea (and Jim's) is great. It would be wonderful to have that in the next release cycle...
18:52:51 [hazmat]
cool.
18:53:09 [hazmat]
* hazmat wishes at least some design discussion would take place in a public forum.
18:53:21 [k2pts]
* k2pts wishes he had time to do so :)
18:54:37 [davb]
k2pts: ok. I thought that might be the answer.
18:54:50 [k2pts]
davb: let me know if you have any problems
18:55:38 [davb]
we will have to restructure the tcl that calls apm_package.delete to call the package contents delete service contract first. that way the tcl can detect if it was sucessful or not and also warn the user what he is doing.
18:55:43 [davb]
k2pts: thanks. np
18:56:19 [davb]
hazmat: anything in particular?
18:56:20 [k2pts]
davb: I meant to apply your patches but if I try any harder, I'll tear into two parts :) very soon I hope
18:56:45 [davb]
k2pts: no problem at all. we were pretty actice this weekend.
18:56:46 [hazmat]
davb: how bout anything in particular...
18:57:23 [hazmat]
there is little record of the openacs4 dev activities outside of the private email archives of the developers, imo.
18:57:30 [davb]
heh, ok good point.
18:57:56 [davb]
we probably should bring this up on the bboard.
18:57:57 [hazmat]
its a point i've been trying to make for over a year.
18:58:07 [davb]
I think the main problem is that you can't reply to the bboard by email.
18:58:20 [hazmat]
which is why dev. should move to a mailing list :)
18:58:32 [talli]
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18:58:36 [davb]
if the disucssion was on a mailing list, it would save the developers time, but it would all be archived at the bboard.
18:58:53 [davb]
but then we still have to get them to use it.
18:59:07 [talli]
hey guys
18:59:08 [k2pts]
* k2pts doesn't like mailing lists :)
18:59:11 [k2pts]
hey talli
18:59:11 [davb]
lets get talli to do it.
18:59:16 [k2pts]
yeah :)
18:59:17 [vinod]
hey talli
18:59:18 [talli]
done!
18:59:23 [talli]
what am i doing?
18:59:25 [davb]
k2pts: then you can read the bboard! :)
18:59:45 [talli]
can anyone recommend a good IRC client for KDE?
18:59:49 [hazmat]
ksirc
19:00:06 [talli]
that's what i'm using. is there anything better?
19:00:17 [hazmat]
not that i know of that is *kde*
19:00:29 [hazmat]
but i use chatzilla and xchat a bit
19:00:35 [davb]
talli: I figure we can volunteer you to request all development discussion be public.
19:00:40 [hazmat]
ksirc's multi window interface is annoying.
19:00:41 [talli]
i'll do it
19:00:50 [davb]
of course, I have been privately emailing luke about ETP :)
19:01:08 [hazmat]
* hazmat sends talli a moral support card ;)
19:01:16 [talli]
i can care less about my reputation in the community :)
19:01:20 [davb]
I still think a bboard per package is a good idea. are we doing that? with a big unified bboard that ties them together?
19:01:22 [denshi]
hey talli
19:01:25 [talli]
i think you're all nerds and dorks, so what woudl i care?
19:01:28 [talli]
especially denshi
19:01:33 [davb]
it seems like a reasonable request.
19:01:37 [davb]
this is open source right?
19:02:11 [davb]
I think even if I couldn't offer useful help on alot of core stuff, I would learn from seeing the process.
19:02:15 [talli]
it's totally reasonable
19:02:29 [talli]
especially since so much is being done in the dark.
19:04:05 [talli]
brb
19:04:11 [talli]
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19:05:12 [k2pts]
davb: a bboard per project would be better, e.g. web services (I'll volunteer for that one -- I have some new stuff coming in that area)
19:05:51 [davb]
k2pts: cool!
19:06:21 [davb]
I wish I had time to fool around with all the stuff I am interested in...
19:06:33 [k2pts]
same here, everybody is after me these days :)
19:06:44 [davb]
What I really need it to get paid to hack on OpenACS during the day so I can do the fun stuff after work.
19:07:10 [vinod]
* vinod drops a nickel into davb's jar
19:07:17 [davb]
woohoo!
19:07:52 [vinod]
* vinod looks from his empty jar to the nickel in davb's jar
19:07:57 [hazmat]
* hazmat collects taxes on the nickle :-)
19:08:03 [vinod]
haha
19:10:12 [k2pts]
have to head out guys, later
19:10:14 [k2pts]
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19:11:37 [vinod]
bbiab - gotta use the phone
19:11:40 [vinod]
vinod has left #openacs
19:11:54 [hazmat]
* hazmat pities vinods dial up access
19:13:16 [davb]
* davb was very lucky they have cable modem access where he bought his house
19:26:23 [talli]
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19:26:41 [talli]
yoyoyo
19:27:37 [hazmat]
oyoyoy
19:29:04 [talli]
so what is this that i've volunteered to do?
19:34:18 [hazmat]
ask for more development discussion to take place openly on the bboards
19:34:39 [hazmat]
much is lost from the community
19:35:05 [hazmat]
when these discussions and knowledge are only kept in the priviliged few's personal email archives.
19:37:20 [bartt]
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20:00:02 [talli]
talli has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.5 [Mozilla rv:0.9.8/20020204]")
20:00:44 [talli]
talli (~chatzilla@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
20:08:36 [davb]
I have a question. Does anyone know if you can have an ADP or TCL 404 error page?
20:11:50 [rbm]
davb: I think so.
20:12:05 [davb]
ok. I tried it, but may have done it wrong :)
20:29:23 [talli]
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21:02:15 [til]
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21:04:14 [denshi]
davb: are you guilty of all this swhack nonsense?
21:05:14 [talli]
talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
21:06:27 [davb]
in what way?
21:06:32 [davb]
sounds like AaronSw
21:06:51 [talli]
what did aaron do now?
21:09:18 [davb]
aaron runs Loggy, I am only responsible for chump.
21:09:26 [talli]
ah, yeah, loggy
21:09:29 [talli]
that's actually my issue
21:09:38 [talli]
loggy sits on a server on my office network
21:09:47 [davb]
oh yeah.
21:09:59 [talli]
i don't know what the issue is, though, becuase i'm at the office and i get fine connectivity
21:10:10 [talli]
i think that the issue is the ISP that provides our T1 sucks
21:10:47 [davb]
loggy actually has been very stable.
21:11:00 [talli]
can you get to blogspace now?
21:11:07 [talli]
i can ping it from my computer
21:12:40 [davb]
yep
21:13:32 [denshi]
what's new, talli?
21:13:54 [talli]
not much, denshi. how are you?
21:14:20 [denshi]
more of the same. closing in on housing in austin.
21:14:41 [talli]
ugh. finding a place to live is always a beeeyatch
21:14:51 [denshi]
it certainly is.
21:15:13 [denshi]
thankfully I know some actual human landlords in austin.
21:16:43 [denshi]
my experiences with the faceless corps that own most apartments have given me sympathy with serial killers.
21:17:14 [denshi]
when I get my cage of attack lawyers, I'm devoting 3 just to apartment defense.
21:17:41 [talli]
have you guys seen Gilbert Wong's site he just posted to the OACS bboards?
21:17:57 [talli]
he either did some killer work in making new bboards, or he did some killer work templating the bboards.
21:18:01 [talli]
either way, very cool!
21:18:25 [davb]
yeah, they look pretty good.
21:18:27 [davb]
and fast.
21:18:35 [talli]
yeah
21:18:52 [davb]
talli: I am download lycoris desktop/lx. it is supposed to be a easy to install linux distro.
21:19:07 [talli]
yeah, it used to be redmon linux, right?
21:19:13 [talli]
saw that on /. yesterday
21:19:13 [davb]
yes.
21:19:16 [denshi]
which link?
21:19:30 [denshi]
nevermind..
21:23:19 [talli]
i'm using Redhat on one of my desktops, and i'm kinda pissed that installing stuff with rpms is such a bitch
21:23:32 [davb]
we warned you :)
21:23:44 [talli]
the redhat package manager isn't that good either. at least, i don't want to think when i install it
21:23:58 [talli]
yeah, but debian has given me more of a headache than anything else
21:24:24 [talli]
maybe that new linux based on corel's version (which is based on debian) will be worth something
21:24:24 [davb]
you need someone to insall it for you :) once it is installed it works great.
21:24:39 [talli]
i also am no fan of ximian
21:24:42 [davb]
oh? cool. Corels installer was really nice.
21:24:48 [talli]
evolution and gnome are very cool
21:24:59 [davb]
me neither. I practically hosed my entire system with Ximian gnome.
21:25:11 [talli]
but ximian is rubbing me the wrong way with red-carpet and other stuff. they are doing some serious lock in, or at least trying to
21:25:18 [davb]
I still have so little bits that don't work.
21:25:20 [talli]
davb, have you tried Rox?
21:25:26 [davb]
nope?
21:25:42 [talli]
http://rox.sourceforge.net/
21:25:42 [chump]
C: http://rox.sourceforge.net/ from talli
21:25:54 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
21:26:02 [k2pts]
davb: are you around?
21:26:06 [davb]
yes I am.
21:26:07 [talli]
C: "The ROX Desktop is an easy to use (and understand!) graphical desktop for Unix and Linux. It's also small and free, so give it a try!"
21:26:07 [chump]
commented item C
21:26:07 [k2pts]
hey guys
21:26:11 [talli]
yo k2pts
21:26:16 [k2pts]
hey talli
21:26:23 [k2pts]
davb: about your question in the forums
21:26:29 [davb]
I don't like the desktops. I have gone minimalist with XFCE.
21:26:46 [talli]
yeah, rox is pretty minimalist, though
21:26:50 [talli]
it's supposed to be very small and fast
21:26:54 [davb]
oh cool.
21:27:01 [talli]
the thing about it is that apps are stored in a central location
21:27:34 [davb]
I usually just use an xterm to start programs so I really don't need too many menus :)
21:27:44 [talli]
ah, so you're a serious nerd...
21:27:45 [k2pts]
davb: change ns_returnnotfound in request-processor-procs.tcl to rp_serve_abstract_file [acs_root_dir]/www/global/notfound.adp
21:27:51 [davb]
sourceforge is timing out, I'll check later.
21:27:59 [talli]
ok, cool
21:28:04 [davb]
k2pts: thanks!
21:28:19 [davb]
can I template that too?
21:28:35 [davb]
no big deal if I can't.
21:29:11 [k2pts]
np
21:29:15 [k2pts]
yes
21:29:21 [k2pts]
yes you can template it
21:29:46 [davb]
hmmm. maybe that should be standard in OpenACS 4 with a sample nice 404 page...
21:30:04 [davb]
cool.
21:30:08 [k2pts]
I'll check my changes soon...been busy as you know already since the last time I logged in :)
21:30:22 [davb]
I want to add search to the 404 page.
21:30:31 [k2pts]
you can do it
21:30:33 [davb]
ok, thanks!
21:30:46 [k2pts]
davb: I did this one when I saw your post, nothing more
21:31:01 [davb]
heh, wow, great service!
21:31:22 [k2pts]
you mean the url above?
21:31:59 [davb]
that is nice, but I meant I asked and you figured it out for me!
21:32:14 [k2pts]
oh ok
21:32:19 [davb]
:)
21:32:22 [k2pts]
:)
21:32:58 [denshi]
denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:35:08 [k2pts]
davb: actually, I had the same question myself and never spent the time to figure it out. I was always searching for a way to do it without changing the rp procs. I asked Janine and said that the only way was this one...
21:35:46 [davb]
aha.
21:36:06 [davb]
wow downloaded postgresql tar.gz in 40 secs.
21:36:12 [k2pts]
davb: btw, I have created an account at dyndns.org and eventhough they say that they process accounts at most 2-3 days after...it's been a week. anyone have any idea what's wrong?
21:36:36 [davb]
sorry, no. do they need to send you a confirmation email or something?
21:36:44 [k2pts]
yes
21:37:01 [davb]
I assume you received it.
21:37:17 [davb]
but I use ODS.org so I don't have experience with DynDNS
21:37:21 [k2pts]
they say that they will do it in 2-3 days but it's been since Feb 19 and no news from there. I have emailed their contact person but still no news
21:37:41 [davb]
that is no fun at all.
21:38:41 [k2pts]
nope
21:39:09 [davb]
ods.org I think is automated if you want a free account.
21:39:45 [davb]
do I need anything besides --with-tcl to compile pgsql?
21:41:43 [k2pts]
davb: I don't compile --with-tcl
21:42:02 [davb]
oh, that is for openacs 3.2.5 I think :)
21:42:15 [k2pts]
ok
21:42:19 [k2pts]
for the search
21:42:41 [k2pts]
it's for the openacs-3.2.5 search
21:42:45 [k2pts]
I think
21:42:53 [davb]
yes, that is it.
21:43:47 [k2pts]
davb: ods.org was too "difficult" to use for me...
21:43:53 [k2pts]
ui
21:44:13 [davb]
It took me a while to figure it out. it is not natual.
21:44:23 [davb]
tinydns was way easier to figure out.
21:45:09 [bartt]
davb & k2pts: I don't think you have to change anything in the TCL procs. Check out my response in the thread you started on OpenACS.
21:46:03 [davb]
ok
21:46:25 [davb]
bartt: with openacs 4?
21:46:50 [davb]
ah. I see you have the code numbers in there.
21:48:11 [davb]
I will try that.
21:48:23 [k2pts]
bartt: I'd rather change the TCL procs than have that
21:48:55 [davb]
bartt: will that allow templating of the error pages?
21:49:28 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
21:50:02 [davb]
* davb hugs mozilla
21:50:30 [hazmat]
* hazmat pats the lizzard
21:52:55 [davb]
heh
21:55:25 [talli]
mozilla is just good enough right now for me not to use IE. but it could certainly still use some work
21:56:02 [denshi]
does anyone know who the 'chrismj' character is?
21:56:43 [talli]
denshi: your momma?
21:57:19 [denshi]
sorry, talli, there's a four syllable minimum for insults in this channel.
21:58:12 [talli]
your fat momma?
21:58:45 [denshi]
you just have no rhythm today, talli. You should just give up.
21:59:38 [talli]
unfortunately, denshi, you are not hear and you cannot measure my day's beat boxing.
21:59:47 [talli]
so i would not be rating my rhythm right now.
22:00:17 [talli]
denshi: AFAIK, lifesavers never were narcotics.
22:00:33 [talli]
you should think about asking to be put in something other than the "control group" next time
22:00:35 [denshi]
heh.
22:01:02 [denshi]
no, I'm on something to control swelling of my ruptured tendon.
22:01:19 [davb]
ouch
22:01:42 [denshi]
it's very advanced...no worries.
22:01:43 [talli]
yowch.
22:01:53 [denshi]
err.. not very advanced, I meant to say.
22:01:58 [talli]
which tendon did you rupture?
22:02:26 [davb]
cool. it works
22:02:32 [davb]
thanks k2pts
22:02:34 [bartt]
bartt has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:02:51 [davb]
now to compile postgresql and replace the debian installed version.
22:02:56 [denshi]
i forget the name. It runs down the outside of your lower leg and crosses under your foot through a gap between the metatarsals and the heel-type bones.
22:03:05 [denshi]
so I'm a big fan of limping this week.
22:03:12 [talli]
jesus. where did it tear?
22:03:20 [talli]
and how did you do it?
22:05:10 [denshi]
I resumed jogging too early after twisting my ankle dancing a couple weekends back. It's not that bad, really. It's just comical.
22:05:22 [denshi]
Now I understand why doctors don't like jogging.
22:06:20 [talli]
ugh. i tore a tendon on the outside of my foot when i tried to get into shape too quickly
22:06:43 [denshi]
I just think it's silly -- i mean, you bike 20 miles a day, but you start running and you're starting from scratch.
22:06:43 [talli]
btw, you dance?
22:07:22 [talli]
* talli loses a little more respect for denshi. the needle is balanced dangerously on the precipice of the red area on the dial...
22:07:34 [denshi]
...like the original motherfucker.
22:08:45 [denshi]
* denshi envisions the day when talli is writing hunter s thompson-style screeds about all the gillespie evils.
22:09:03 [talli]
hunter thompson is a hack.
22:09:13 [talli]
it will be faulkner-like
22:09:21 [denshi]
can anyone recommend a really cheap webhosting service for just dumb file-storage?
22:09:38 [davb]
how much?
22:09:41 [denshi]
I have a new client with a bunch of nothing except for video samples.
22:09:50 [davb]
Ah.
22:10:10 [denshi]
I figure the apache people of the world know where to find these things.
22:10:15 [denshi]
I should go there.
22:10:35 [talli]
denshi, you should check out some of the webDAV based services out there
22:10:40 [talli]
they seem pretty cool
22:10:43 [talli]
go to webdav.org
22:11:18 [denshi]
talli, you have to admit h.s. thompson wrote the finest elegy in american history:
22:11:19 [denshi]
http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/graffiti/crook.htm
22:11:19 [chump]
D: http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/graffiti/crook.htm from denshi
22:12:07 [hazmat]
talli, the other thing to ask for is a cvs commit mailing list
22:12:20 [talli]
hazmat, ok
22:12:28 [davb]
hazmat: good idea. and working SDM email would be nice :)
22:12:29 [talli]
you want to email me privately with your ideas ;)
22:12:59 [hazmat]
too much effort... i'm lazy :-)
22:14:22 [talli]
that's cool. i was kidding
22:14:25 [talli]
i'll look at the logs
22:14:39 [k2pts]
davb: SDM email works, at least for me
22:14:58 [k2pts]
davb: for your post earlier, np
22:15:02 [davb]
I click "i'm interested" I never have gotten an email from the sdm.
22:15:09 [davb]
it must be me :)
22:15:12 [k2pts]
:)
22:15:26 [k2pts]
I think it works for the patches but not for bugs and features
22:15:29 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-65-109.s109.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
22:15:34 [k2pts]
hey vinod
22:15:35 [davb]
ah
22:15:37 [davb]
hi vinod
22:15:55 [vinod]
hi everyone
22:16:25 [davb]
ok. where can I get a startup file for postgresql?
22:16:41 [davb]
I was thinking about trying to use the debian one, but it looks like it has some magic in it.
22:16:49 [vinod]
k2pts: i'll let it go those 2 times :-)
22:17:02 [vinod]
davb: i got one in the new docs somewhere...
22:17:03 [talli]
k2pts, are you trying to instigate something?
22:17:12 [davb]
vinod: ok, i'll look.
22:17:26 [davb]
A:
22:17:26 [denshi]
hey vinod.
22:17:26 [chump]
http://www.kurup.com/acs/openacs4/index.html
22:17:40 [vinod]
http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4/files/postgresql.txt
22:17:43 [vinod]
hey denshi
22:18:05 [k2pts]
talli: don't have a clue what you mean by "instigate" :)
22:19:21 [talli]
well, you tried to get me to say something like, "denshi, do you really insist on making yourself sound even dumber than vinod?"
22:19:54 [davb]
wow, vinod, those docs are super detailed!
22:20:17 [denshi]
* denshi is away, working on a grand unified field theory of dumbness.
22:20:27 [vinod]
heh... i basically did an install inside an emacs shell and copied every command into the docs
22:20:44 [davb]
on every distro?
22:21:11 [vinod]
denshi: don't worry bout talli's comment. he works on a reverse scale from the rest of us
22:21:20 [k2pts]
:)
22:21:26 [vinod]
davb: well, no, but i tried to fake the redhat stuff
22:21:49 [denshi]
* denshi feels disappointed that he can't put years of diffy eq to use in bogon math.
22:22:16 [vinod]
what's a bogon?
22:22:37 [vinod]
* vinod learned about electrons, protons and neutrons back when he was in school
22:23:15 [talli]
a bogon is the unfortunate thing growing in your pants, vinod. and that's even more unfortunate, because you don't even wear pants
22:23:50 [vinod]
why is talli so interested in what's "growing" in my "pants"?
22:24:15 [talli]
that's right. quote it all up. they're all metaphors and aliases from here on out.
22:24:24 [vinod]
haha
22:29:18 [bartt]
bartt (~chatzilla@dsl-64-34-176-81.telocity.com) has joined #openacs
22:32:22 [bartt]
davb & k2pts: sorry about my abrupt departure; my computer froze
22:32:30 [andyn]
andyn has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:34:02 [bartt]
k2pts: I'm pretty sure that your solution has the advantage of templating. Wouldn't it be best to combine best of both solutions by having the request-processor look for the files defined in the config file?
22:41:49 [davb]
cool database switched.
22:42:15 [denshi]
a bogon is the carrier particle of bogosity in stupidity field theory. Compare to 'computron'.
22:43:44 [vinod]
of course... computrons. those were used in voltron, right?
22:46:04 [hazmat]
megatron?
22:46:46 [vinod]
vinod is now known as vinodtron
22:48:26 [talli]
* talli fires twelve hyper-plasmonic torpedos at vinodtron's plutonic particle-nophinator, permenantly rendering him unable to perform his trademark scottish jig
22:49:09 [talli]
unfortunately, vinodtron's kilt remains suspended in air, exposing the undersirables of vinodtron. however small they are.
22:50:45 [vinodtron]
* vinodtron walks away in shame, knowing that only talli would desire him now
22:50:53 [vinodtron]
vinodtron is now known as vinod
22:51:03 [talli]
"will desire him now"
22:51:09 [talli]
and no, i won't. not with that grammer.
22:51:56 [vinod]
* vinod thanks talli for the "grammer" lesson
22:52:03 [talli]
whoops
22:52:04 [talli]
hehe
22:52:13 [talli]
* talli blushes like a little girl.
22:52:27 [vinod]
haha - this feels like a /. thread now
22:55:35 [talli]
ok, /me gotta go
22:55:49 [denshi]
have fun.
22:55:56 [talli]
i swear to the high holy vinod that i will post a task list this eve for the new OACS
22:56:01 [talli]
promise promise promise
22:56:04 [talli]
ciao ciao ciao
22:56:11 [talli]
talli has left #openacs
23:02:03 [denshi]
finally. With talli gone we can revert to speaking latin and cease the unseemly practice of pants-based humor.
23:06:11 [vinod]
carpe diem!
23:06:58 [vinod]
* vinod has now exhausted his knowledge of nonmedical latin
23:08:07 [hazmat]
* hazmat reminds vinod pig-latin ;)
23:08:51 [vinod]
ioy orgotfoy igpoy atinlay (?)
23:09:42 [hazmat]
umm... sure
23:10:13 [vinod]
my pig latin is pretty rusty too
23:10:29 [rbm]
* rbm 's Scanner works with Linux!@)*!#%@!#@!
23:10:29 [hazmat]
the creature bot does pig latin translations ;)
23:10:41 [davb]
all right!
23:10:44 [rbm]
http://www.brasileiro.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=7
23:10:44 [chump]
E: http://www.brasileiro.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=7 from rbm
23:10:45 [davb]
USB?
23:10:48 [rbm]
davb: Yep.
23:10:51 [hazmat]
wow
23:10:55 [hazmat]
what kinda of scanner
23:11:22 [denshi]
quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
23:11:27 [rbm]
Epson Perfection 1650, purchased yesterday. 1600x3200 dpi.
23:11:30 [vinod]
rbm: cool!
23:11:32 [rbm]
alea jacta est
23:11:37 [davb]
very nice. I need one of those.
23:11:38 [rbm]
vini, vidi, vici
23:11:45 [hazmat]
rbm: cool. was it hard to setup?
23:12:13 [rbm]
hazmat: It wouldn't have been if I had known that xscanimage is buggy, and that I should've used xsane from start.
23:12:28 [vinod]
denshi: he who speaks latin lives well?
23:12:48 [rbm]
I even have scanning from the Gimp! http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/pictures/new/gimp-scanning.png
23:12:51 [denshi]
vinod: that which is said in latin, sounds profound.
23:13:24 [rbm]
Check these out: http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/pictures/new/aisle.jpg http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/pictures/new/juliane-roberto.jpg
23:13:36 [rbm]
I took, developed, and printed the last 2.
23:13:48 [vinod]
denshi: ahhh. true :-)
23:14:04 [rbm]
altus pimentus anus et refrescum
23:14:50 [rbm]
<something>, altius, fortius!
23:15:16 [rbm]
* rbm waits for the comments on the pictures.
23:16:06 [vinod]
rbm: utah is a lot more black and white than i thought it would be ;-)
23:16:20 [davb]
ok why is openfts.so giving me a weird error when I compile it.
23:16:26 [vinod]
they're beautiful
23:16:28 [davb]
its looking for Parser.o and parser.o
23:16:33 [denshi]
* denshi admits he will never be as funny as vinod.
23:16:50 [paje]
paje (~paje@slxwy.dorms.usu.edu) has joined #openacs
23:16:55 [vinod]
hey denshi, don't worry. as they say looks aren't everything
23:16:58 [rbm]
paje: insult vinod please
23:16:58 [paje]
vinod please is nothing but an unmuzzled enema-bucketful of pribbling cat bladders.
23:17:07 [rbm]
heheh
23:17:33 [vinod]
davb: is this a new version of openfts?
23:17:50 [davb]
no. I copied over my source tree from the working computer to the web server.
23:18:50 [rbm]
vinod: thank you
23:20:30 [vinod]
rbm: np. i love winter pics
23:22:32 [rbm]
* rbm scans some more for vinod and to celebrate his working scanner
23:22:54 [vinod]
davb: did you redo the ./configure on the new machine
23:22:59 [davb]
yes.
23:23:10 [davb]
it is trying to find ../include
23:23:38 [davb]
ah wait. I think its a permissions screwup.
23:23:52 [davb]
no, its not.
23:27:49 [davb]
hmmm. it works on the original machine.
23:27:51 [vinod]
so the ./configure works fine, but then make fails?
23:27:57 [davb]
yes.
23:28:18 [davb]
all the paths are the same.
23:28:26 [davb]
I installed al the headers for pgsql
23:30:55 [vinod]
davb - i think i remember
23:31:13 [vinod]
look at this: http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4/nextsteps.html
23:31:17 [davb]
ok thanks.!
23:31:25 [vinod]
go down to step 3 of the openfts install
23:32:30 [davb]
i see.
23:32:45 [davb]
weird, I wonder why it works on this machine, but not the other...
23:32:48 [davb]
let me try
23:34:09 [talilee]
talilee (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
23:34:40 [davb]
now I remember.
23:34:50 [davb]
heh, doesn't help.
23:34:58 [vinod]
doh
23:35:17 [davb]
its looking for fts.h which is right where it is supposed to be.
23:35:42 [davb]
maybe I can just copy fts.so over...
23:36:14 [davb]
or maybe I need a new copy.
23:37:50 [vinod]
vinod has quit ("changing universes")
23:38:19 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-91.s345.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
23:39:23 [vinod]
when i tried to compile it without changing Makefile.global, i got this:
23:39:25 [vinod]
gcc -c -I. -fPIC -I../include Parser.c -o Parser.o
23:39:26 [vinod]
In file included from Parser.c:28:
23:39:26 [vinod]
../include/fts.h:16: tcl.h: No such file or directory
23:39:26 [vinod]
make[1]: *** [Parser.o] Error 1
23:39:26 [vinod]
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/Search-OpenFTS-tcl-0.2/parser'
23:39:26 [vinod]
make: *** [parser] Error 2
23:40:01 [vinod]
so, it's looking in ../include for tcl.h, when it should be looking in /usr/include/tcl8.3
23:40:27 [davb]
oops. I don't have that...
23:40:44 [davb]
duh.
23:41:16 [davb]
much better. thanks!
23:41:24 [vinod]
sure, np!
23:42:17 [davb]
yeah, new error.
23:42:23 [davb]
flex?
23:42:28 [davb]
whats flex?
23:42:35 [vinod]
hmmm. never saw that one yet
23:42:36 [davb]
whatever it is, I don't have it :)
23:42:43 [davb]
flex -8 -Pfts_yy -oparser.c parser.l
23:43:05 [davb]
apt-get install flex found something...
23:43:11 [davb]
hopefuly its the right one.
23:43:20 [davb]
yeah!
23:43:26 [vinod]
flex - fast lexical analyzer generator
23:43:34 [vinod]
whatever that means... :-)
23:43:38 [davb]
I installed a super-minimal system on my server so I am missing little stuff.
23:43:42 [k2pts]
davb: flex is used to generate the parser
23:43:47 [davb]
thanks.
23:43:52 [k2pts]
sorry, I was away for a while
23:43:55 [davb]
It is probably part of a standard install.
23:44:00 [k2pts]
yes
23:44:08 [davb]
np, it was me forgetting simple things again :)
23:44:17 [k2pts]
we all do at times :)
23:44:34 [davb]
now I need to redo it with the openfts that is fixed.
23:46:40 [davb]
vinod: i think I symlinked /usr/include/tcl8.3 to /usr/lib/tcl8.3/include
23:47:42 [vinod]
before doing ./configure ?
23:48:20 [davb]
vinod: yeah, I think so.
23:48:46 [davb]
that was on the last system, I used your method this time.
23:48:57 [vinod]
gotcha
23:51:27 [davb]
ok, now when I move the site over, search should work.
23:55:55 [jim]
Hi.
23:56:15 [vinod]
hi jim
23:57:36 [jim]
heya vinod
23:57:39 [denshi]
hey jim
23:57:44 [jim]
hiya denshi
23:58:45 [jim]
umm, is Neophytos == k2pts?
23:58:51 [talilee]
NO!
23:58:56 [talilee]
k2pts is an impostor!!!
23:59:16 [talilee]
k2pts is actually a dirty spy from #mysql
23:59:53 [jim]
o -I- c :)
23:59:54 [denshi]
excuse me, I have some spying to do.