IRC log of openacs on 2002-02-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

01:44:58 [rbm]
jim: you around?
01:45:23 [jim]
Hi, yes
01:45:57 [rbm]
So, would you be willing to be my advocate in my Debian application?
01:46:04 [jim]
sure :)
01:46:15 [jim]
you should apply
01:46:41 [jim]
btw, have you ever looked at gnu hello?
01:46:51 [rbm]
jim: Yeah, a while ago.
01:47:33 [jim]
ok, also are you about to get your key signed or is that still pending?
01:48:05 [rbm]
I still haven't applied because my package creation skills are a little rusty. I've been wondering if I should apply right away (since it'll take some time, I'll have time to sharpen my skills) or wait a little more until I've created a couple packages from scratch. What do you think?
01:49:07 [jim]
you should apply, because you can learn packaging... it's not hard at all
01:49:37 [rbm]
jim: Okay. Yeah, I know it's not hard, but I keep hearing all these horror stories from people who applied to be NMs.
01:49:54 [jim]
there is a lot to learn...
01:50:37 [rbm]
Indeed. But it's fun :)
01:51:19 [rbm]
Another question is, should I apply right away or upload a package sponsored by a DD?
01:51:26 [rbm]
(before that is)
01:51:50 [jim]
but a lot of current usage type stuff are put ad hoc on the mailing lists, and also codified in the policy document
01:51:59 [jim]
(have you read current policy?)
01:52:09 [rbm]
jim: I read the Debian Policy Manual, yes.
01:52:17 [jim]
ok, that's good...
01:52:26 [rbm]
It's pretty big.
01:52:27 [jim]
lemme check something out
01:52:33 [jim]
yep...
01:53:23 [rbm]
yep what?
01:54:53 [jim]
pretty bit...
01:54:54 [jim]
g
01:55:37 [jim]
ok, I'd like to extend you an invitation to #debian-devel at this time, so you can ask these same questions
01:55:53 [rbm]
gulp
01:56:07 [rbm]
ask them again?
01:56:36 [jim]
yeah, I think I got the answers right :)
01:56:50 [rbm]
why do I need to ask them again there?
01:57:49 [jim]
well, you don't have to...
01:58:03 [jim]
but I'm trying to make sure you should apply now
01:58:13 [rbm]
jim: okay.
01:58:28 [rbm]
Holy macro!!!! That's a lot of people.
02:11:08 [rbm]
Why is Perens bad?
02:13:13 [elvenangel]
elvenangel (~ariaerasi@pcp647754pcs.mkethn01.fl.comcast.net) has joined #OpenACS
02:17:22 [elvenangel]
elvenangel has left #OpenACS
02:18:28 [jim]
the impression I was getting is something about rm-rf and 2 years of mailing list archives
02:19:11 [rbm]
hmm
02:20:26 [rbm]
I'm walking through the NM pages once again.
02:23:38 [jim]
ok
02:25:04 [rbm]
* rbm finishes the DMUP
02:26:49 [rbm]
Hmmm. I don't think I've written a man page yet.
02:26:52 [rbm]
jim: any pointers?
02:29:42 [jim]
but have you written other forms of docs (say yes here; I saw your docs on pg.org :)
02:30:02 [jim]
DMUP, that's the machine policy?
02:30:03 [rbm]
yes, lots. Docbook, linuxdoc, txt, etc.
02:30:07 [rbm]
jim: yes.
02:30:36 [rbm]
But the /devel/join/nm-* pages say I have to be able to write a man page.
02:32:02 [jim]
to give you an idea, debian wants a man page per executable... it can be short, referring to other docs... there is a package helper thing called debhelper, and a initial-setup thing called dh_make, and one of the things that dh_make does is give you an example man page
02:32:16 [rbm]
ah
02:32:23 [jim]
I can whip one of those up, and you can look at it
02:32:39 [jim]
(doesn't docbook have the capability of producing nroff/
02:32:41 [jim]
?
02:32:42 [jim]
)
02:33:19 [rbm]
jim: Yes, docbook has that capability. Or better, Docbook processors have.
02:37:56 [rbm]
* rbm looks at man(7)
02:51:59 [rbm]
jim: what packages do you maintain?
02:52:41 [jim]
logout-button, members, cgiwrap, gperiodic, animals
02:52:56 [jim]
little stuff
02:53:00 [jim]
far from core
02:55:03 [rbm]
Everything is important :-)
02:56:06 [rbm]
jim: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?archive=no\&bug=114821
02:57:01 [rbm]
bbl
02:57:06 [jim]
ok
02:57:26 [rbm]
Gotta shower and go buy some groceries with the wife
02:58:13 [rbm]
jim: thanks for the help, btw.
02:58:22 [rbm]
jim: I think I'll submit my application tomorrow.
02:59:03 [jim]
cool
02:59:27 [jim]
question... did you meet up with Erik yesterday?
02:59:35 [jim]
or today even?
03:00:21 [rbm]
jim: No. Car problems yesterday, so I didn't even bother calling him.
03:06:53 [jim]
ok, the thing is you're well-enough known in the community, at least in my opinion, such that we can go with the app as you say tomorrow...
03:07:02 [jim]
is your key new tho?
03:08:16 [jim]
and I have to ask this... there's no problems with identification?
03:10:34 [jim]
(note that because I'm a DD and Erik is a DD, I was able to get his phone number, because it was in the database, and all DDs can see it... others can search the db, but they don't get as much info)
03:10:47 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
03:10:53 [jim]
heya davb
03:10:58 [davb]
hi
03:11:26 [davb]
I seem to have a bad athlon motherboard (i hope). It was free at least.
03:11:27 [jim]
I been working on the restrict-pres-to-instance thing, I have a patch which works partially
03:12:00 [davb]
My patch should have fixed that :)
03:12:28 [davb]
oh wait, maybe not :) if the queries were written incorrectly.
03:12:49 [davb]
wow! I have alot of email :)
03:13:24 [jim]
well, no... because while now the context_id of presentations now point to package_ids, the queries that get the list of presentations should be restricted to those that belong to the instance
03:13:30 [jim]
I made a patch to that effect
03:13:40 [davb]
excellent.
03:13:44 [jim]
and I can make a presentation
03:14:00 [jim]
but seems like a regular user cannot, and it generates an error
03:14:23 [davb]
interesting. must be the way the permissions are written.
03:14:30 [jim]
maybe
03:14:46 [jim]
you up to doing some testing on it?
03:14:56 [davb]
sure, give me a few minutes :)
03:15:01 [jim]
ok,
03:21:37 [rbm]
jim: I don't think I have any problems with identification. I have a Utah driver's License and a Brazilian passport.
03:22:22 [jim]
ok, and you're ok with identifying yourself using those (if turns out necessary)?
03:22:44 [rbm]
jim: Yes. No problem.
03:22:57 [rbm]
My address is published under the USU student directory as well.
03:23:06 [rbm]
I hope renting an apartment is not a problem.
03:23:07 [jim]
cool, that's all the identification problems out of the way
03:23:53 [jim]
are you gonna be around tonite? like to ask you more stuff
03:26:33 [rbm]
jim: Me? I should. My wife postponed the groceries trip for another hour.
03:26:41 [jim]
ahh :)
03:26:49 [jim]
ok, so now is ok?
03:26:55 [rbm]
Sure.
03:27:17 [rbm]
* rbm prepares psychologically :)
03:27:32 [jim]
ok, I know you're coleader with ben, could you tell me stuff about the details there?
03:27:55 [jim]
lemme see, one thing I'm curious about is what attracted you to acs and to ben
03:29:30 [rbm]
OpenACS was in the back of Ben's, Don's and my brain at the same time apparently, in late 1999. I posted a question to the ArsDigita web/db board about a port of individual modules to PostgreSQL, and it was at the right time to Ben and Don.
03:29:58 [rbm]
Ben opened a sourceforge project, and me and Don joined immediately, along others.
03:30:34 [jim]
offtopic, whois k2???
03:30:52 [jim]
k2pts
03:31:04 [rbm]
I didn't know any Tcl at the time, but wanted to learn, and what better way then having to document and test stuff? So I took over documentation.
03:31:11 [rbm]
paje: k2pts?
03:31:11 [paje]
k2pts is blah blah blah blah :)
03:31:15 [rbm]
hehe
03:31:21 [jim]
looks like an oldstyle ham callsign
03:31:46 [rbm]
Neophytos Demetriou.
03:32:09 [rbm]
paje: no, k2pts is * Neophytos Demetriou (k2pts@cytanet.com.cy)
03:32:09 [paje]
...but k2pts is blah blah blah blah :)...
03:32:22 [jim]
davb: k2pts added your patch to the repository earlier
03:32:29 [davb]
ah nifty.
03:32:40 [davb]
hopefully we can get it all fixed before the release.
03:32:58 [jim]
whensthat?
03:33:01 [rbm]
paje: no, k2pts is Neophytos Demetriou, one of the minds behind OpenACS-Search and other nifty stuff.
03:33:01 [paje]
...but k2pts is blah blah blah blah :)...
03:33:06 [rbm]
paje: forget k2pts
03:33:06 [paje]
rbm: I forgot k2pts
03:33:08 [rbm]
There
03:33:09 [rbm]
paje: no, k2pts is Neophytos Demetriou, one of the minds behind OpenACS-Search and other nifty stuff.
03:33:10 [paje]
OK, rbm.
03:33:22 [jim]
no, k2pts
03:33:28 [jim]
k2pts
03:33:31 [jim]
k2pts?
03:33:41 [rbm]
paje: k2pts?
03:33:41 [paje]
i think k2pts is Neophytos Demetriou, one of the minds behind OpenACS-Search and other nifty stuff.
03:33:45 [davb]
ok I am back now.
03:33:53 [davb]
let me update my CVS.
03:34:06 [jim]
paje: ok, I?
03:34:06 [paje]
i heard jim was jim  (just ask apt!)
03:34:13 [rbm]
jim: What else do you need to know?
03:34:15 [jim]
paje: ok I?
03:34:15 [paje]
well, jim is jim  (just ask apt!)
03:34:49 [jim]
I wanted to get a feeling for your skills
03:35:19 [davb]
I upgraded from 400 to 500 mhz and 512mb ram anyway. :) so everything will be a little faster.
03:35:36 [jim]
it was originally techwriting?
03:36:36 [rbm]
That's how I started on OpenACS, yes. But I became release manager for the 3.2 tree last year, and did a lot of coding there.
03:37:00 [davb]
ok I am installing a base data model.
03:37:04 [rbm]
I'm graduating in CS in May, btw.
03:38:43 [davb]
argh every time I use tab-completion this motherboard beeps!
03:39:15 [rbm]
Managing the 3.2 tree also taught me a lot about patch and release management. It's a tough job and I'm glad I'm not in Don's skin for the 4.x tree :-)
03:39:34 [jim]
so, that of course involves tcl, sql on both oracle and postgres, pl/sql, pl/pgsql, java, xml and html?
03:40:08 [davb]
C also, nsxml pgdriver....
03:40:20 [jim]
rbm: you did that?
03:40:41 [rbm]
For OpenACS I didn't do any Java. XML only for OpenACS 4. I do know some Java though. I also did a lot with Docbook and some xsl+xml for the 4.x docs.
03:41:11 [rbm]
davb: I did some Makefile rearrangement for the AOLserver postgresql driver.
03:41:19 [davb]
ok :)
03:41:26 [jim]
rbm: you wrote or worked on nsxml?
03:41:37 [rbm]
However, I read the pg driver C code a few times :-)
03:41:43 [rbm]
jim: No.
03:42:51 [jim]
ok... C isn't a necessity, however it would be a good addition... what's in your C/C++/asm background?
03:43:40 [rbm]
I know some okay C, and pretty good C++. I wrote a 500-line module for IRMP3 (mod_save: http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/jukebox/).
03:43:58 [rbm]
I did some MIPS assembly in a class I took. It was interesting :)
03:44:10 [rbm]
<-- loves C btw
03:44:33 [jim]
davb: wanna see if you can reproduce an error I'm getting? seems if I'm not logged in as site-wide admin, I can't create a presentation... could you confirm that/
03:44:34 [jim]
?
03:45:30 [davb]
sure. did it do that before your patch?
03:45:34 [jim]
rbm: any familiarity with autoconf or automake?
03:45:42 [jim]
erp... not sure
03:46:10 [rbm]
jim: familiarity yes. It's in my TOLEARN list though.
03:46:38 [rbm]
jim: I have this dream of putting AOLserver on automake
03:47:20 [jim]
rbm: ok... from what I understand, most of the maintainer scripts are written in sh, bash or perl... how familiar are you in this area?
03:48:19 [rbm]
jim: I've done some bash scripts, and know how to get around and where to find more info. Perl, I've tried to like it several times, but it's tough :-)
03:48:48 [jim]
I get that a lot, people like it, people don't like it...
03:48:54 [rbm]
I've attended 3 4-week Perl workshops we had here at our LUG (taught by the resident Perl god)
03:49:04 [jim]
who is that?
03:49:25 [rbm]
Doran Barton. www.iodynamics.com, www.fozzilinymoo.org (I think)
03:49:44 [jim]
so after all that, you don't really like perl?
03:51:00 [rbm]
jim: Not really, but I can bear it :) I have the Camel book to my help when I need :)
03:51:24 [jim]
ok...
03:52:31 [jim]
how familiar are you with the differences between bash and sh?
03:52:36 [rbm]
I love the abundance of Perl modules, but I dislike the syntax and how the language is so convoluted.
03:53:00 [jim]
do you have interest in the perl6 thing?
03:53:32 [rbm]
jim: I know that bash has several non-posix extensions.
03:55:11 [rbm]
jim: I haven't looked at Perl6, but I hear it's worse than Perl5 wrt to the convolution in the language.
03:55:44 [jim]
yes... when a maint writes the (slackware-esq) maint scripts ( {pre,post}{inst,rm} ), there is apparently an automated process somewhere that finds out if you've chosen bash or sh and adds a dep to it
03:56:13 [rbm]
Ah, interesting.
03:56:47 [jim]
the way it finds out your choice is it looks at the top line, which would either be #!/bin/sh or #!/bin/bash
03:57:41 [jim]
and if it's sh, it might poke around trying to find "bashisms", which are undesirable unless you say you're using bash (on that top line)
03:58:10 [rbm]
jim: Yes, I know that you should not use #!/bin/sh if using bashisms.
03:58:36 [jim]
there is also a program called lintian, which you feed a completed .deb to
03:58:41 [davb]
jim: I signed on as a regular user and created a presentation. I made it public and an unregistered visitor can view it.
03:58:56 [jim]
and it looks for polidy violations
03:58:59 [rbm]
jim: Knew about lintian as well.
03:59:08 [jim]
davb: ok, that could mean I have to hammer
03:59:56 [jim]
yay for hammerage :)
04:00:08 [jim]
works now
04:00:39 [davb]
ah.
04:00:57 [davb]
did you ever try the apm (reload) feature?
04:01:16 [jim]
I had trouble with that
04:01:26 [davb]
ah.
04:01:35 [jim]
it never worked as well for me in all cases as the big hammer
04:01:54 [jim]
so I hammer and things break! :)
04:02:16 [jim]
err, well, you get the idea :)
04:02:42 [jim]
rbm: I really like your enthusiasm... but I knew about that before
04:02:59 [rbm]
jim: :)
04:03:12 [jim]
how old are you?
04:03:23 [jim]
(I'm 43, btw)
04:03:34 [rbm]
jim: almost 26 (b-day on Feb, 29th)
04:03:58 [jim]
oh, howbout makefiles?
04:04:15 [jim]
can you write them?
04:04:55 [rbm]
jim: Yes.
04:05:38 [jim]
ok, I think you have all the skills needed to package things...
04:06:18 [jim]
packaging openacs will be a big challenge tho. you should get a mentor for packaging
04:06:41 [rbm]
jim: Hmm. How do I get one of those?
04:07:04 [jim]
just ask for one on debian-mentors@lists.debian.org
04:07:12 [rbm]
openacs 3.x has some interesting Perl stuff that Brent Fulgham wrote (the original packager and maintainer). I was thinking of reusing some of that.
04:07:29 [jim]
and if you want to subscribe to that list, http://lists.debian.org
04:09:05 [rbm]
I'm on debian-devel, debian-portuguese, and debian-news
04:09:38 [jim]
also... the boot-floppies arrangement is going to change sorta soon, you should look into that; the old way is boot-floppies, the new way is debian-installer
04:09:56 [rbm]
I heard of that, but haven't looked into it.
04:10:11 [jim]
one thing the new way allows is more flexibility as to what is actually in the base
04:10:37 [rbm]
cool
04:10:48 [rbm]
Is that based on anything done by Progeny by chance?
04:10:50 [rbm]
Just wondering.
04:12:05 [jim]
this could be important in case they change things so the base is much smaller, getting rid of all but one shell except when you have a depend on this new kind of .deb called a .udeb
04:12:24 [jim]
much of that is a guess...
04:12:46 [rbm]
jim: where could I read more about it?
04:13:15 [jim]
but the deb/udeb thing is there, a udeb being a deb that doesn't necessarily conform to policy, in order to be able to be included in installation process
04:13:16 [rbm]
What's a .udeb?
04:13:25 [rbm]
Ah
04:13:33 [jim]
umm
04:13:50 [shagster]
huh?
04:14:13 [shagster]
* shagster jumps in when the conversation is using small words :)
04:16:33 [davb]
* davb realizes the ISA sound card will not fit in the spiffy new all PCI motherboard...
04:16:58 [shagster]
Ugh...
04:17:56 [davb]
* davb wonders if the ethernet and audio sharing an IRQ is screwing something up...
04:18:20 [shagster]
It shouldn't.
04:18:26 [davb]
mb has built in, so far, non functioning audio :)
04:19:43 [shagster]
Heh..what chipset ?
04:20:03 [jim]
davb: via chipset?
04:20:17 [jim]
* jim takes a notsowild guess ;)
04:20:48 [davb]
jim: intel 815
04:21:00 [davb]
this is the other machine that I built today :) mostly works.
04:21:49 [davb]
unfortunately the manufactuer's web site totally disavows any knowledge of ever producing this model, it was free anyway :)
04:24:37 [jim]
which mobo is it?
04:25:04 [davb]
MSI-6326
04:26:25 [jim]
looks like the i815 sound is supported
04:26:57 [davb]
I downloaded the drivers from their web site,and installed, but it says my hardware is not working or not there (win 98 :)
04:29:40 [shagster]
well, try using a real os. Install dos :)
04:30:53 [davb]
heh
04:31:01 [davb]
my wife plays games.
04:32:01 [jim]
so far everything I've seen points to ALSA
04:32:38 [davb]
its something, i'll look :)
04:32:47 [jim]
rbm: if you're still here, did you have any more questions for me?
04:35:33 [rbm]
jim: If I submit my application tomorrow as I plan to, do you just login and advocate me?
04:35:41 [jim]
yes
04:36:17 [rbm]
jim: okay than. I think that's it.
04:36:24 [shagster]
Hmmm...debian getting a new developer? :)
04:36:25 [jim]
can that be right? linuxdoc.org is down?
04:36:42 [rbm]
jim: looks like it. We have a mirror at fslc.usu.edu/ldp
04:36:51 [rbm]
shagster: Hopefully
04:36:53 [rbm]
:)
04:38:20 [rbm]
pes
04:38:24 [rbm]
s/pes/yes/
04:38:43 [jim]
I did that to make it klikable :)
04:38:50 [rbm]
* rbm goes to shower then grocery shopping
04:39:05 [rbm]
ah, xchat
04:39:16 [jim]
and --sheesh--. they mention each card, then don't say what driver, or where
04:39:50 [rbm]
jim: I have an xcut script that, once I selected a URL, I can just click in a button in my desktop and it opens in mozilla (or whatever browser)
04:40:29 [rbm]
unmoo for the night
04:40:33 [jim]
nite
04:45:59 [davb]
argh, this is really annoying. there is nothing anywhere, they have stuff for hundreds of motherboard, except this one :(
04:46:54 [davb]
ah, I found it!
04:47:17 [davb]
click on 815Pro and it takes you to the MS-6326 page.
04:48:03 [talilee]
talilee has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:51:39 [jim]
cool :)
04:53:06 [jim]
welp, I was looking for it too, but found something on alsa being used in a demo of multicontinent 12-channel pro-quality audio being streamed to a studio several thousand miles away and mixdowned there
04:54:19 [jim]
davb: btw, you applied patch 161?
04:59:47 [davb]
not yet.
05:00:06 [davb]
jim: that is pretty cool.
05:00:39 [jim]
so which patch did you apply?
05:01:06 [jim]
* jim gets confused (or version-skewed?)
05:02:28 [davb]
oops. mozilla seems to have crashed.
05:02:37 [davb]
jim: is that your patch for html?
05:02:51 [jim]
no, 123 is
05:03:25 [jim]
160 is a working patch, but not generated from the right dir
05:03:33 [davb]
ah.
05:03:42 [jim]
161 is the same patch generated from the right place
05:03:51 [davb]
I just tried to see how the perms worked on the before version :)
05:04:04 [jim]
oh, gotcha
05:07:13 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit (Remote closed the connection)
05:10:51 [jim]
ok, if you still dont' have th patch applied... try creating 2 wimpys, create presentations (slides not necessary) on each, and see if you see all presentations on both wimpys... unless I miss my guess, you should
05:11:23 [davb]
jim: I patched, and it works. I have 2 wimpypoints and previosuly they could see each others presentations, but now it looks good.
05:12:29 [davb]
oops.
05:12:41 [davb]
I tried to create a new one and it worked less then perfectly...
05:12:46 [davb]
to the log...
05:12:59 [jim]
ok, I don't know wimpy well enough to know how many hamburgers^w^w^w if there are more places that need to get patched
05:13:04 [jim]
hammer, hammer :)
05:13:35 [jim]
not hammering doesn't work well enuf, I dunno why
05:13:57 [davb]
Cannot insert a duplicate key into unique index cr_items_unique_name
05:14:04 [davb]
weird. the name is different.
05:15:11 [davb]
very weird, now it works.
05:15:20 [jim]
after the hammer?
05:15:31 [davb]
ah. looks like a double click
05:15:43 [davb]
the first one was created. although it shouldn't barf on that.
05:16:00 [davb]
there is almost no error correction/catching in there.
05:16:17 [jim]
hmm, quite sloppy then
05:16:34 [davb]
yes. wp-slim is one of the less done packages it seems.
05:17:12 [davb]
also I am not sure "name" needs to be a unique key in the cr_items table anyway...
05:17:55 [davb]
oops, for some reason I can't boot of this unformatted floppy...
05:18:55 [davb]
ok now I am SUPER confused. I purposely double clicked on submit and got TWO presentations with the same name.
05:19:09 [jim]
wow
05:19:17 [davb]
or rather same title.
05:20:20 [davb]
ah, it seems to hack on a number to the end of the title to make sure the cr_items.name is unique
05:21:35 [davb]
also strangley enough, the parts of the presentations: audience, background etc... are repeated for cr_items.name
05:21:42 [davb]
I think you are right about the hammer :)
05:23:07 [jim]
repeated? you mean they get created again, new/different IDs and all?
05:23:22 [davb]
the weird part is the first presnetation has _0 appened. the second has _the object id of the first presentation with the same name
05:23:38 [davb]
jim: yeah, but I got a "the name has to be unique" error.
05:24:06 [jim]
weird
05:24:06 [davb]
ah, cr_items is indexed on name.
05:24:18 [jim]
is your acs accessable outside?
05:24:27 [davb]
sure.
05:24:40 [jim]
can I look? url?
05:25:07 [davb]
or # http://24.58.162.46:8001/wp and 24.58.162.46:8001/wp2
05:25:53 [jim]
yeah, I see the links at the bottom of /
05:26:24 [jim]
pretty soon it's gonna be time for me to customize the / of my music acs
05:26:55 [davb]
cool. I had alot of fun working on mine. it should be done soon.
05:27:16 [jim]
ok, I see one "stuff" in wp, no presentations in wp2
05:27:58 [davb]
ah, i didn't make those public. it works :)
05:28:26 [jim]
could you public em?
05:28:30 [davb]
sure...
05:29:42 [davb]
ok
05:30:54 [jim]
ok, I see "No looking in the wimpys", "test 2" and "doubleclick?" in wp2
05:31:11 [davb]
how many doubleclicks do you see? s/b 2
05:31:18 [jim]
oops, and a second "doubleclick?"
05:31:24 [davb]
ok.
05:31:41 [jim]
ok,,,
05:31:45 [davb]
so I think the error was just wackiness.
05:32:05 [jim]
howbout this: make a third wimpy... and try the doubleclick test
05:32:26 [davb]
ok
05:34:14 [davb]
I can't seem to reproduce it. they created fine.
05:34:31 [jim]
ok, so pre-hammer jitters?
05:35:33 [jim]
also, wimpy point is a fairly large package, lots and lots of pages
05:35:59 [jim]
if it's not completed, or even the least completed, -sheesh- :)
05:36:04 [davb]
maybe. except...my server was stopped. I installed the patch and then started it up.
05:36:21 [davb]
the two wp instances were created before I did all that.
05:36:47 [jim]
so then you hammered again after that?
05:37:12 [davb]
nope. I got the error message, then tried to reproduce the error, but I never restarted.
05:37:45 [jim]
so after the patch was applied, you started the server, magic worky? :)
05:37:52 [davb]
yes.
05:38:50 [jim]
ok, then the only thing left to do atm is find all other places that try to get a list of packages
05:39:04 [jim]
thing is, I think I found all of them...
05:39:12 [davb]
ok. what do they do?
05:40:22 [jim]
the patches add " and ao.context_id = :package_id" to where clauses of queries that get a list of presentations
05:40:56 [davb]
ok.
05:41:09 [jim]
the other thing it does, is add "set package_id [ad_conn package_id]" to some tcl files
05:41:44 [jim]
some of them already had that, so I didn't add it (and I changed my original :variable_name)
05:43:25 [jim]
* jim gotta check that html patch for a sec, I think I missed something
05:45:11 [jim]
gotta look at create-presentation-2.tcl to see if it lets in html
05:46:14 [jim]
ugh
05:46:33 [jim]
it -was- already done... good news there...
05:46:48 [jim]
but the presentation title allows html
05:46:52 [davb]
ah...
05:47:29 [davb]
ok the uniqueness is on parent_id,name so you can't have two presentations in the same instance with the EXACT same name. which is probably a good idea.
05:47:54 [jim]
that'
05:48:00 [davb]
but the wp_presnetation_new checks first and appends somethign to the name to fix that. so I have no idea how I got the error.
05:48:04 [jim]
s as the docs say it should be
05:48:33 [jim]
that part I dunno
05:49:15 [davb]
so its a mystery. if noone reports it during beta testing..no problem.
05:49:22 [jim]
that reminds me, an often-used api func is misspelled, and I forget which one
05:50:40 [davb]
we will need to have two copies to backward compatability :)
05:51:02 [jim]
(it's misspelled the same way everywhere, so uses of it works...)
05:51:14 [davb]
right.
05:51:24 [davb]
jim: what time zone are you in? I am EST.
05:51:34 [jim]
PST
05:51:48 [davb]
ah :)
05:51:48 [jim]
you shot for the nite?
05:51:58 [davb]
not quite, just curious.
05:53:11 [davb]
looks like I am buying a new PCI sound card though...
05:53:48 [jim]
howbout a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz?
05:54:08 [jim]
I heard real good things about it, and bad things about sblive
05:54:59 [davb]
I don't think we are too picky, as long as it works :). I have a $15 one and it works ok, although it is a pain to setup in linux.
05:55:23 [jim]
the santa cruz might be $75
05:55:51 [davb]
that sounds about right for a real sound card.
06:06:15 [jim]
db_1row get_presentaiton {
06:06:19 [jim]
foundit
06:10:08 [davb]
any preference for chipset for athlon?
06:10:21 [jim]
not sure
06:10:43 [davb]
ok, fair enough :)
06:10:46 [jim]
but strong preference for socket, not slot
06:11:03 [jim]
* jim hates agp for the same reason as slot 1
06:11:30 [jim]
way way too easy to permanently ruin it
06:12:18 [davb]
ah. never screwed up an agp yet :)
06:12:21 [davb]
* davb crosses fingers
06:12:22 [jim]
via chipset seems ok, but it's new
06:12:42 [davb]
right. I suspect I have misconfigured my motherboard... the amd one.
06:12:45 [jim]
-straight- down, and tie the vid card to something
06:13:14 [davb]
ah, I have alot of even pci video cards coming loose.
06:13:28 [jim]
* jim was a blowit case on his own dual slot1... screwed both processor slots
06:14:04 [jim]
we tried building an amd for a guy, finally got it to post every time... after loading bios defaults :)
06:14:23 [davb]
ah.
06:14:27 [davb]
maybe i'll try that.
06:16:54 [jim]
webby, log
06:17:04 [jim]
is he logging?
06:17:22 [davb]
loggy, status
06:17:22 [davb]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'status', davb. Try /msg loggy help
06:17:27 [davb]
heh
06:18:56 [jim]
ok, for whom it may concern... the following files contain identical misspellings of the word "presentation"; the misspelled version is "presentaiton":
06:19:26 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/sql/oracle/upgrade-4.0b-4.0b1.sql
06:19:26 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/www/presentation-acl.tcl
06:19:26 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/www/presentation-acl.xql
06:19:26 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/www/presentation-top.tcl
06:19:26 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/www/create-slide.tcl
06:19:26 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/www/create-slide.xql
06:19:28 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/www/presentation-top-oracle.xql
06:19:30 [jim]
./packages/wp-slim/www/presentation-top-postgresql.xql
06:20:16 [davb]
asus web site crashes mozilla...argh
06:20:25 [jim]
in particular, they occur in the query name "get-presentaiton"
06:20:38 [jim]
probably some java nonsense
06:20:42 [davb]
that you shoudl be able to fix. if its just the query name
06:21:29 [jim]
hmm, maybe it's not an often-used api function like I originally thought :)
06:25:01 [jim]
ok, I need to head out till tomorrow
06:25:11 [davb]
ok. see ya later!
06:25:43 [jim]
ok. nite :)
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19:33:58 [davb]
hi everyone
19:48:24 [davb]
* davb learns there are no decent computer parts stores near his house open on sundays
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20:20:18 [davb]
woohoo
20:20:32 [davb]
surprisingly, the athlon works!
20:20:55 [davb]
fiddling with the jumpers on the" jumperless" mb did the trick.
20:34:50 [jim]
so it posts now?
20:35:12 [davb]
not only that, xchat works :)
20:35:18 [jim]
cool :)
20:36:14 [jim]
* jim is still in too-early mode, no coffee yetr
20:38:01 [jim]
no rbm on nm list yet
20:38:12 [jim]
* jim goes for coffee :)
21:03:17 [jim]
* jim back
21:03:51 [jim]
* jim wonders if now, wp package can be deleted...
21:04:04 [talilee]
* talilee wonders where jim gets his coffee
21:04:15 [talilee]
ever been to royal ground in the city?
21:04:28 [jim]
albertsons, and sometimes peets
21:04:46 [talilee]
albertsons???? do they have good coffee? i know peets does
21:05:03 [jim]
it's ok, it's close, quick and open 24 hours
21:05:17 [talilee]
but you gotta get into the city and check out a joint called royal ground. that is, if you like your coffee strong enough to ward off vampires and the IRS
21:05:39 [jim]
I definitely make a strong cup
21:06:06 [talilee]
then you need to go to royal ground
21:06:09 [jim]
three -large- heaping tablespoons into 2 cups water
21:07:24 [talilee]
usa 2 canada 2
21:07:52 [talilee]
i don't care about the game, and i don't really want to see the US win, but i do like to see canadians suffer and be pathetic
21:07:58 [talilee]
USA! USA! USA!
21:08:05 [jim]
so we just scored one?
21:08:09 [talilee]
yeah
21:09:21 [jim]
psql:wp-slim-drop.sql:281: ERROR: cr_wp_presentations_id_fk referential integrity violation - key in cr_revisions still referenced from cr_wp_presentations
21:09:21 [jim]
CREATE
21:09:21 [jim]
psql:wp-slim-drop.sql:298: ERROR: cr_items_rev_type_fk referential integrity violation - key in acs_object_types still referenced from cr_items
21:09:21 [jim]
DROP
21:09:48 [talilee]
is that how you show your support for american hockey?
21:09:51 [davb]
ok.
21:09:59 [davb]
we should be able to track that down.
21:10:17 [jim]
one sec, I'll package up the whole log
21:16:23 [jim]
damn, psql is being very uncooperative wrt error logs
21:19:37 [jim]
I told it to redirect output and errors to a file, and it displayed errors
21:30:23 [jim]
SHEESH.
21:30:29 [jim]
it won't do it
21:30:48 [jim]
this is a postgres bug, and a stupid one
21:31:19 [jim]
but I can get around it
21:35:23 [jim]
-there-
21:35:25 [jim]
got it
21:35:40 [jim]
see? emacs -does- have its uses :)
21:36:36 [jim]
davb: before I email this, I'd like to reinstall all of this oacs instance
21:36:50 [jim]
then create again
21:37:03 [jim]
(without creating presentations)
21:37:12 [jim]
get the log of that create
21:37:16 [jim]
then do a drop
21:37:56 [jim]
get that log
21:38:00 [jim]
email them both
21:38:11 [jim]
and put line numbers on both too
21:38:53 [jim]
that should give us plenty of collaboration ability
21:44:26 [jim]
kernel loading
21:44:41 [jim]
(davb: wanna hang for this?)
21:45:06 [jim]
initial packages loading
21:46:39 [davb]
I am here :)
21:47:11 [jim]
ok, cool...
21:47:22 [chump]
chump has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:47:30 [jim]
just restarted it, logging in
21:47:35 [davb]
oops,
21:49:21 [jim]
* jim tests to see if your patch (presentation.context_id -> package instance object_id) is in cvs
21:50:06 [jim]
yep :)
21:50:12 [jim]
Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R? [n]
21:50:27 [jim]
when trying to apply wp-patch
21:50:51 [jim]
ok, so now I have exactly what's in cvs...
21:51:27 [jim]
should I apply mine now, or later (and test now)?
21:51:53 [davb]
that patch is just queries right? it shouldn't affect the dropping...
21:51:59 [jim]
(well, only wrt wp-slim... everything else is from 2/7/2002)
21:52:15 [davb]
s/b ok, the core is pretty stable.
21:52:40 [jim]
* jim looks at his patch again
21:53:43 [rafa]
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21:54:16 [jim]
yeah, just queries and users.tcl (to support the queries)
21:54:54 [davb]
apply it after then. it won't hurt the install.. and if the drop works, you can apply it and try it again :)
21:55:29 [jim]
so work with just what's in cvs now? ok
22:02:24 [jim]
ok, I got the logs of that ready
22:05:33 [davb]
all right. do you want to send it now?
22:10:31 [jim]
yes
22:10:49 [jim]
can I email them?
22:10:55 [jim]
(two emails?)
22:10:59 [davb]
ok
22:11:48 [jim]
create log sent
22:12:18 [jim]
drop log sent
22:15:06 [jim]
the word "error" doesn't appear in the create log
22:16:06 [davb]
that is good.
22:16:36 [jim]
or in the drop log (?!)
22:16:44 [davb]
is it gone?
22:17:17 [jim]
wait, less suddenly got case-sensitive about searches
22:17:44 [jim]
checking create script again (drop script -does- have errors, gotta search for ERROR)
22:18:12 [jim]
still no ERRORs in create script
22:18:19 [jim]
err, create log
22:19:02 [jim]
line 510 says function to drop doesn't exist
22:19:15 [davb]
oops, my bad on the first one. it needs to add an integer to the signature of the wp_presnetation__new
22:19:38 [davb]
and that looks like it to me.
22:19:48 [jim]
yeah, no more errors
22:21:20 [jim]
can you patch that, and send me just the (corrected) part that would delete that function?
22:21:33 [jim]
and the patch...
22:22:45 [jim]
wanna run that, then try creating and deleting again (another create will tell us if the drop didn't drop everything)
22:24:14 [jim]
oh, and i gotta get k2 to get rid of patch 160 :)
22:24:59 [jim]
or just the patch, I could extract the function deleter ;)
22:26:07 [davb]
np, its only one line... brb
22:28:32 [davb]
oops. ok my drop script is not working...too many presentations :)
22:30:42 [davb]
ok it looks like the function dropping worked anyway...
22:34:20 [davb]
jim, its fixed in CVS...
22:34:24 [davb]
the drop script.
22:34:38 [jim]
it did??
22:34:44 [davb]
maybe someone else noticed (neophytos maybe) when he applied the patch.
22:35:04 [davb]
yeah, I just moved wp-slim-drop.sql and updated
22:35:08 [jim]
but note that both 158 and 159 made it in
22:35:34 [jim]
ok, giving that a shot
22:35:43 [davb]
that might still work :) 159 fixed the oracle version.
22:35:43 [jim]
maybe he -just- now did it
22:36:34 [davb]
very lucky, saves us work.
22:37:17 [davb]
I think to delete the rest, we need to go through and delete al lthe slides in one shot, then the audience, preable, etc.... in a seperate inline fucntion for each thing.
22:37:19 [jim]
ok, checking
22:38:10 [jim]
hmm, not from my end... drop script is identical to cvs
22:38:21 [davb]
ok, I wonder what I am doing wrong :)
22:41:06 [jim]
if your'e in the dir packages/wp-slim/sql/postgresql,
22:41:21 [jim]
do you get this:
22:41:37 [jim]
openacs-4/packages/wp-slim/sql/postgresql
22:41:37 [jim]
:pserver:anonymous@openacs.org:/cvsroot
22:41:47 [jim]
when you do cat CVS/R*
22:41:48 [jim]
?
22:43:25 [davb]
nope, I have an account at openacs.org, I don't use anonymous, I use SSH :)
22:43:40 [davb]
but the path is correct.
22:44:10 [davb]
I sent a patch, I checked it out again, and fixed it. the drop is also in the email ,but VI doesn't like emacs tabs...
22:44:17 [davb]
I should fix that one of these days :)
22:44:58 [jim]
oic,,, so you could commit yourself
22:46:03 [jim]
err, rephrase
22:46:08 [jim]
oic,,, so you could commit, yourself
22:46:12 [davb]
no, I don't have access to the wp-slim package,
22:46:15 [davb]
heh
22:46:29 [davb]
just static-pages and clickthrough I think.
22:46:35 [jim]
ok
22:46:53 [jim]
how do they do that? different group per package?
22:47:05 [davb]
not sure. its a mystery...
22:47:47 [jim]
ok, so what's the status now? I'm out of sync :)
22:49:03 [davb]
I emailed you the changes to fix the dropping of wp_presentation__new
22:49:10 [jim]
ok
22:54:57 [jim]
fixed my drop script, dropped ghe func
22:55:17 [davb]
excellent
22:57:10 [jim]
create then immediate drop, no errors
22:58:22 [jim]
another create, no errors
22:58:55 [jim]
hmm, all this likes to kill the aolserver
23:01:29 [jim]
can't reproduce that
23:03:35 [jim]
ok, created 2 package instances, mounted them
23:03:47 [jim]
what if I ran the drop script now?
23:04:11 [davb]
should work fine. i think its the presentations with the children objects that are screwing it up.
23:04:20 [davb]
of course, then it deletes all your files :)
23:04:30 [jim]
even if the packages are mounted?
23:04:42 [jim]
well, just running the sql drop script
23:06:54 [davb]
I think so.. just guessing
23:13:17 [docwolf]
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23:13:32 [jim]
I think data model drop scripts should take applications with them, and tell the site map that
23:14:06 [jim]
or, said app should go to an "I don't exist" page
23:14:45 [jim]
but in any case, I was able to delete the, erm, app stub? after unmounting it
23:14:55 [davb]
not sure what the official way is. ys the drop script should take all instances with it, I think.
23:15:19 [davb]
well maybe you want to have to positively remove the instance before deleting the entire package.
23:15:24 [davb]
brb...
23:16:56 [jim]
ok
23:17:04 [jim]
* jim thinks about eats
23:18:48 [jim]
here's the way I think it should work:
23:20:15 [jim]
if you run the sql drop script... you would get rid of everything that was created in the course of using the package, first... in some order that works, perhaps the reverse order of creating
23:20:51 [jim]
once you're here, all you should have left is package instances and the package itself
23:21:46 [jim]
so you tell the site map: "for each of my instances, unmount then remove the stub"
23:21:58 [jim]
then you get rid of the instances
23:22:24 [jim]
then you get rid of the package data model, ideally in reverse order created
23:25:29 [rbm]
moo
23:29:51 [jim]
heya rbm :)
23:34:49 [rbm]
key him
23:34:54 [rbm]
s/key/hey/
23:34:59 [rbm]
* rbm wishes vinod would be around
23:35:06 [rbm]
s/would be/was/
23:38:10 [jim]
lunch time (kinda late, but I got up that way too...)
23:47:19 [rbm]
Well, so much for the "Open" in "OpenOffice"