00:05:34 where is jim when you need him 00:06:52 oops I never installed oracle on this box... 00:06:54 oh well. 00:09:42 ? 00:11:29 heh, I was wondering if you could provide an actual copy of that script so I don't have to copy/paste it, but nevermind, I didn't install oracle, and I am not in the mood to do it tonight :) 00:11:44 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 00:11:49 hi denshi 00:11:49 boo! 00:11:58 hey davb 00:12:02 * davb hides behind Psychephylax 00:13:19 who is Psyche, anyway? 00:13:36 a random OpenACS developer. He got sucked into it by his job 00:13:46 now we can't get rid of him 00:13:54 ??? that's an odd way to join. Where does he work? 00:14:24 not really, his boss said, you will use OpenACS 4, have fun... :) 00:14:33 some cable company. 00:15:07 damn, that's cool. Does his boss hack ACS? 00:15:18 davb: sure. I can maybe help you install oracle at some pt 00:15:19 I think not. 00:16:09 jim: thanks! I have installed several times, but it is not my preferred development platform. anyway I am geeting a new CPU/MB/and lots of RAM at the end of the week. so I think I will wait 00:17:21 hey jim. haven't seen you in a while. 00:17:23 might be an idea 00:17:27 Hiya denshi 00:17:46 denshi: welp, I looked a little closer at parrot 00:18:13 definitely not ready for perl-aol being ported to it yet 00:18:53 anyone tried photodb? 00:22:01 (technical reasons: when I make a new instance of an aolserver data structure (like a NsDString), I allocate a chunk of mem and call aolserver's api to initialize it... then I make a perl reference and a perl SvIV, point the ref at the SvIV, point the SvIV at my chunk of mem... 00:22:15 parrot has no references yet... 00:23:16 later versions of perl-aol try to use a hash (because I'm storing a few pieces in the hash)... 00:23:17 yeah, it's totally new and unprepared. But I think by this time next year the early perl6 prereleases will start coming out on it. By end of next year, Larry Wall and crew will cry out for all to destroy their perl5 interpreters. 00:23:26 parrot has no hashes yet... 00:23:29 ) 00:23:52 So perl-aol on perl5 might be a bad idea, when you look at its possible life span. 00:24:03 I like to build things that are useful for 3-5 years. 00:24:38 well, wall claims that perl 4 is even out there (as much as he wishes it was gone) 00:25:07 this is true. 00:25:30 so wall is thinking perl5 might last 3-5 years from now 00:25:47 err, from the time perl6 comes otu 00:26:53 but I'm not necessarily in a big hurry to look at perl-aol right now 00:27:17 the only way I'd want to is if I could solve the whole destructor bug 00:28:55 well, might set aside some time to look at it again 00:32:26 I think in two years we should try dumping aolserver for apache 2. But I'm not going to say a word of that until then, as it would be stupid to draw people to that until apache has worked out their design flaws. 00:33:38 then might as well use mod_perl? 00:33:53 or python or whatever? 00:33:59 no, no, no. 00:34:24 we still need a db api comparable to aolserver. 00:34:44 and you can get that :) 00:34:55 with? 00:35:28 by building it, probably on top of the standard perl DBI interface 00:35:33 oh :) 00:36:22 then would have to look for poolable dbi 00:36:25 * davb wonders what everyones favorite langauge is besides tcl :) 00:36:38 perl DBI sucks ass, if you haven't noticed. 00:36:41 davb: C, Python 00:36:51 cool 00:37:26 there is a tcl package that replicated the aolserver apis for tcl, you could load that in mod_tcl and be halfway there 00:37:29 or more 00:37:50 jim: I wasn't saying that we should switch over to mod_perl. That's a whole other bag, about rewriting all the OACS into another language, which would be tiring and suck ass. 00:37:58 if we include tcl in the "fav lang" question, I might say perl (I wouldn't say tcl, unless it got much better wrt aggregate data structures and first-classness) 00:38:25 davb: nstcl, by Michael Cleverly. http://www.cleverly.com/aolserver/ 00:38:32 thanks! 00:38:35 thats it. 00:38:39 davb: The newer nstcl does templating as well. 00:38:46 cool. 00:38:53 And it implements the new ACS db api 00:38:55 anyway that is probably the best bet for apache. 00:38:59 I'm saying that aolserver has only a few people left working on it, the maintainer consistently pisses off contributors, and it's way behind on modules. 00:39:30 kriston? 00:39:41 what about the whole thread vs. process and shared memory etc,,, does apache 2.0 fix it? 00:39:50 so when apache2 gets up to the point where its architecture is on par with aolserver circa 1996, then we should look at moving. 00:39:58 ah. ok 00:40:12 96?? 00:40:29 I think the "future" is what Petra proposed: write an AOLserver driver for FastCGI, that way you could use it with Apache 00:40:32 you mean 2 years before it was called aolserver? 00:40:44 err, maybe that's not right 00:40:47 denshi: Actually 1995 00:40:52 davb: apache2 fixes that -- of course, they couldn't just fix that. There's a completely insane mess involving sometimes-threads/sometimes-processes that apache2 can programmatically run in. 00:40:59 you mean 2 years before ArsDigita? 00:42:05 If Eve's history was accurate, ArsDigita started in '98? 00:42:22 jim: Yes, I mean 2 years before aD 00:42:30 s/2/3/ 00:42:37 ahh 00:42:52 when did aol buy navi? 00:42:57 97? 00:43:12 I thought it was in 95 00:43:23 Actually I'm pretty sure it was 94 00:43:52 when did phil talk aol into GPLing aolserver? 00:43:56 talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 00:44:06 hey guys 00:44:16 better, when did they do it? 00:44:17 how-dy 00:44:22 yo t 00:44:37 yo denshi 00:44:37 brb 00:44:45 hello docwolf 00:44:51 greetings. 00:45:00 hey jim 00:45:36 hey talli, I wrote the script to import the web/db pages into oacs3.2.5. 00:45:46 cool 00:45:50 but why into 3.2.5? 00:46:01 I'm going to run a couple test iterations and then mail it. 00:46:12 b/c that's what the current openacs.org is running on, right? 00:46:26 yeah 00:46:35 but we should suck them straight into the new OACS site 00:46:35 talli: what do you need volunteers to do to convert to 4? 00:46:52 well, the scripts are already there for 4 00:47:00 denshi: ???? Michael Cleverly already did all that. 00:47:31 He even matched aD users with OpenACS users. Few were left unmatched and those were mostly one-posts. 00:48:00 rbm, that's also all well and good, but why? 00:48:19 there's a new site begging to replace this horrid one we have now! 00:50:07 hey denshi, any news on the tora front? 00:50:12 oops. why didn't he post that? 00:50:19 no news on tora. 00:53:31 rbm: do you know from michael directly that he already did that or are you refering to the "i want my web/db" thread? 00:53:57 Mango (~ThatGuy@ool-18bdc78c.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs 00:55:37 Helllo in here. 00:55:39 and why hasn't that been used for openacs.org/bboard? 00:56:01 hey Mango 00:56:07 :) 00:56:08 good evening, mr. fruit. 00:57:01 :) 00:57:08 oops, car-jousting, bbl 00:57:20 Mango, you new to the OACS? 00:57:22 ::::covering eyes::::: 00:57:27 Yep. 00:57:43 * talli puts on his drug pusher sweat jacket 00:57:53 you know, Mango, the first one's free, but... 00:58:22 welcome Mango. started using it yet? 00:58:27 nm, not until 9:00 00:59:40 Tru newbie Mac geek systems guru 01:00:01 www.whatthehellamIdoinghere.com :) 01:00:47 mango -- stay away from that talli guy. he's no good. 01:01:11 Life's no good. :) 01:01:11 except my souffle's are delicious! docwolf, even you can't deny that... 01:01:18 yes, that is true. 01:01:29 the souffle is excellent. 01:02:00 :) 01:02:10 You dudes Mac-Heads? 01:02:26 silence 01:02:58 The crickets tell all. 01:04:14 actually some visitors use Mac, but not most 01:05:03 there's one guy that uses mac pretty heavily. he doesn't now much though. nothing about databases at least. his name is markd2. he's weird. 01:05:42 you gotta watch out for him, too, cuz he's 5-0 01:06:23 mango raises an interesting question. I cut my teeth on linux & sunos 4 in 94-96. Nothing serious before that. What about everyone else? 01:06:44 I started on vic-20 :) 01:07:02 only real os I ever used was linux 01:10:41 way to scare the newbie 01:12:14 * davb prepares to convert weblog data to etp 01:12:36 ugh 01:12:38 I think I need a pl/pgsql function to use the etp api to insert them 01:12:51 oh well, if I screw it up I can reload the data model :) 01:13:04 i just finished watching that film with englebart and the mouse. 01:13:09 cool. 01:13:24 rbm just sort of disappeared after the drugs and sex came out. 01:13:34 I want to know what happened with cleverly. 01:13:55 ???? something happened? 01:14:08 * rbm is back 01:14:26 talli: Why? Because he wanted web/db accessible on openacs.org 01:15:01 I installed Tora the other day. Never got it connect to any databases. 01:15:05 mango, is that site you linked your personal site? 01:16:03 talli: What's missing for us to migrate to the new openacs? The biggest hurdle I see is the SDM, but we could have the old site running on port 8000 or something just for SDM. 01:17:19 Or just create an sdm.openacs.org 01:17:25 yeah talli: like I said, what do you need volunteers to do? 01:21:52 why is sdm a hurdle? 01:22:54 jim: Because it hasn't been ported to OACS 4 01:23:10 * rbm is behind on bboard messages 01:23:12 ahh.. and also not to acs 4? 01:24:24 I thought there was a sdm for 4 over a ybos.net (didn't download it) 01:25:07 if there is, and license permits, why not look at it? :) 01:26:25 downloaded 01:27:01 oh there is? 01:27:08 yep. oracle only. 01:27:10 * rbm goes to help a friend with debian 01:27:12 Argh! 01:27:18 bbiab 01:27:25 that's not too bad 01:27:36 no, it can be ported. 01:28:13 wait, its a mess. 01:28:16 no sql dirs 01:28:20 no tcl dirs 01:28:35 hmm... 01:28:38 I'm out of here. Mango, hope you find something you like. 01:28:40 denshi has quit () 01:28:49 everything in /ackages/srm? 01:29:21 yes, except for www 01:30:11 we need someone who knows sdm to look at it. 01:31:41 it might just be better to write a new one based on ticket-tracker/workflow 01:32:28 also looks like it would be easier to take the pg version and hack on it until it looked like this instead of back porting the oracle stuff 01:51:59 davb, i'll write up what volunteers need to do 01:52:14 i posted it on the bboards a while ago, but it needs updating, so i'll write that up 01:53:59 oh, i didn't see shagster is here now 01:54:08 let me put on my steel cup 01:54:14 and kevlar jock 02:13:40 cool 02:32:54 Mango has quit (""POOF"") 02:51:59 talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:05:59 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:18:44 talli (~talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 03:23:36 GEM has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:46:26 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:15:08 dlk (dlk@walter.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 08:43:29 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13:02:20 hmmmm 13:56:22 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:56:27 hi 14:31:37 Starets (~Starets@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openacs 15:31:08 davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:35:11 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:01:30 dlk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:10:55 yippee! it works 16:13:00 what works? 16:13:26 I stuffed data from my old ugly hack weblog into edit-this-page and openacs 4. 16:13:40 Nice. 16:20:51 mornin * 16:21:31 heya davb... did you find my wp patch yesterday? 16:21:50 Starets has left #openacs 16:22:10 [Global Notice] Hi all. Reminder to Linux hackers: the Ottawa Linux Symposium CFP deadline is March 1st. Heavy hackers are encouraged to submit proposals, details at http://www.linuxsymposium.org/. Thanks. 16:25:06 jim: yes, but I didn't test it :) 16:25:29 howcomedat? 16:25:35 too lazy 16:25:46 did it apply? 16:25:52 I am making progress on coverting my personal site to openacs 4 though. 16:26:13 it's a covertly sekret? :) 16:26:28 not my personal site. 16:27:59 I'm gonna do the ad hoc general-comments-on-etp thing on my musical site... 16:28:10 trying to patch now, my patch skills are less than super :) 16:28:12 neat 16:28:19 I want to add comments for my etp stuff too. 16:28:39 One thing I want is a elegant way to take stuff from different etp instances and put it on the home page. 16:31:23 ok, you can cd to .../packages/wp-slim and do cat /path/to/patchfile | patch -p0 16:31:39 ok. 16:31:43 or patch -p0 < patchfile 16:32:17 aha, much better thanks 16:33:05 I'm definitely interested to know if it applies :) 16:33:34 (i.e., if patch runs without failed hunks) 16:33:45 it applied fine. now I am installing the data model to see what happens. 16:33:53 cool :) 16:34:00 anyone have oracle to test my patch for wp-slim? :) 16:34:15 I do -have- it... 16:34:36 it's not up atm 16:35:14 * jim tries putting oracle up 16:36:21 SQL*Plus: Release 8.1.6.0.0 - Production on Thu Feb 21 08:36:40 2002 16:36:45 Database "ora8" warm started. 16:37:32 listener is up too 16:37:51 ok, so now I need another oacs to put in the oracle 16:37:58 and another user 16:39:23 damn, I forgot the names of things 16:41:01 I forgot that command that's like sqlplus only like a local back door, and you have to say "connect internal" 16:41:16 wait I remembert 16:41:20 svrmgrl 16:42:20 * jim finds his perl script from the other day :) 16:43:41 * jim does df... finds 3.6g available in the oracle volume... plenty :) 16:44:41 barely 16:44:42 :) 16:45:15 jim: do you use debian? 16:45:51 yep 16:46:08 cool. btw. I have run pg and oracle on the same openacs install directory. works great. 16:46:34 but the data models can be different? 16:46:57 sure. 16:47:09 does that also mean I could run two pg instances off the same dir? 16:47:12 you need different aolserver config files 16:47:25 you should be able to. 16:47:56 if you use vinod's you need to customize the config file so the database name is not the same as the server name and install dir. 16:47:58 hmm, that can be useful 16:48:39 I dunno whose I'm using... maybe it is vinod 16:48:47 I got the case for my new pc, but no cpu :( 16:49:15 what about mobo? 16:49:39 and how do you plug in the cpu? what socket/slot? 16:50:13 I have a spare mb. its a socket. cpu should be here tomorrow. 16:50:21 good 16:50:29 slot 1 SUCKS. 16:50:45 * jim is still pissed off at slot 1 16:50:52 yes. I actually have two. one athlon, and one P3 16:51:02 yeah, it was an evil hack to get the cpu out the door early. 16:51:34 amd had a good idea using the alpha compatible socket, but luckily they weren't screwed by that. 16:51:48 * jim is actually pissed at himself for not reading how to install the cpu... 16:52:19 ah :) 16:52:28 had an asus dual slot 1 16:52:42 ok. i installed and the patch works. I can enter html in the slides, plus it has my patch, so they work together 16:52:44 permanently damaged both slots :( 16:52:56 excellent :) 16:53:20 make sure you can edit them 16:53:26 ok 16:53:41 * jim isn't sure he got everything 16:54:31 that worked too 16:54:38 cool :) 16:55:10 does it check if you have unclosed tags? 16:55:20 no 16:55:34 ah, 16:55:38 it just "allows" html 16:55:43 ok. 16:56:12 and I decided they should -not- be allowed in the presentation title or slide title 16:56:39 probably not. 16:57:31 actually what would be neat is if there were standard css id tags created for the slides. then someone could add an interface to style the presentation using those ids. 16:57:54 is there an existing filter that checks for closing? 16:58:05 sounds familiar, but I am not sure. 16:58:08 :) 16:58:19 I think bboard can do it. 17:02:20 ok, someday I'll look at that :) 17:02:52 it does do some sort of style thing, doesn't it? 17:02:57 another bug I need to submit. in the api browser 17:03:04 jim: maybe, I never looked :) 17:03:52 * jim remembers creating a white-on-black style, and using it :) 17:05:04 * jim does this the easy way 17:06:29 package-view does not check which db you are supporting 17:08:58 is that good or bad? 17:09:18 bad. you get oracle files when you are running pg. 17:09:26 not really bad, more annoying :) 17:09:32 gotcha 17:09:57 actually, nevermind. it shows all the sql files. I was clicking on the oracle ones because they came first. dug 17:09:58 duh 17:10:56 ahh, I was gonna say, that would be the more useful approach... should default to showing you the db in use, but allow you to see the other... 17:11:13 the way it is now would at least let you see either 17:14:11 right, I just wasn't paying attenion :) 17:16:01 http://developer.mimer.com/validator/index.htm 17:16:02 A: http://developer.mimer.com/validator/index.htm from davb 17:16:27 A:| Online SQL Validator 17:16:28 titled item A 17:16:40 A: .92 .99 200x 17:16:40 commented item A 17:16:44 davb: what's your email? 17:16:55 dave@thedesignexperience.org 17:17:11 rbm: you too, gonna send you a oracle tablespace maker :) 17:17:20 davb: sent 17:17:21 cool! 17:17:51 save the whole message, then pipe it into uudecode 17:18:04 headers and all is just fine 17:18:37 jim: rmello@cc.usu.edu 17:19:02 rbm: sent 17:19:48 * jim tries running it on perl 5.6 (which is what woody has) 17:20:01 it was written using potato perl 17:22:14 (note: the script produces script that came from aD acs install instructions; haven't looked back there yet) 17:22:22 jim: tks 17:22:29 from probably a year and a half ago 17:24:12 * jim is gonna haf ta hack around a bit to get this going 17:27:32 cool. 17:28:37 ok, that got it, I think 17:29:40 ok, the script the perl script made is now working 17:30:17 (well, see, that script produces some sql, you have to copy/paste lines of it into svrmgrl) 17:30:57 * jim has a new database :) 17:31:50 ok 17:31:58 * jim performs acceptance test on it 17:32:13 SQL> select sysdate from dual; 17:32:13 SYSDATE 17:32:13 ---------- 17:32:13 2002-02-21 17:32:28 acceptance test passed! 17:36:12 ok, this patch I'm testing... what does it affect? 17:36:58 it correctly sets the parent_id of the presentation object 17:37:04 :) 17:37:13 so, this is wp 17:37:21 oh yeah :) 17:37:39 should I send you the patch? 17:37:40 hazmat (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs 17:37:44 hi hazmat! 17:37:49 hi davb 17:38:08 ok... will it work on oacs from cvs of 20020207 at 2239 UTC? 17:38:25 should. I used it back then, I just didn't submit it. 17:38:27 hmm, that was 2 weeks ago 17:38:33 ok 17:41:03 hmmm... think I should compile the oracle driver? :) 17:42:35 nah. well, unless you don't have it :) 17:42:59 fresh build, so I didn't build it yet 17:46:25 heyy! built first time! 17:48:59 * jim started the server, looked over the log... seems to be accessing the oracle db ok 17:49:25 OpenACS Installation: Welcome 17:49:38 Your Oracle8 driver is correctly installed and configured. 17:49:38 The next step is to install the OpenACS kernel data model. Click the Next button to proceed. 17:49:51 hah! damn I'm good :) 17:50:50 jim: You still up to sponsoring me as debian developer? I'm almost done reading the docs. 17:50:58 sure 17:51:05 jim: cool. my patch changes the sql files for wp-slim so you need it before loading the datamodel 17:51:16 * rbm taps davb on the back 17:51:27 jim: great! 17:51:58 jim: the debian devel signing my pgp key must have met me in person, or sign my key _with me in person_? 17:52:13 yes. 17:52:21 yes what? 17:52:30 to both 17:52:41 well, actually 17:52:55 Argh. So say you had met me in person in the past, I couldn't just send you my key for you to sign? 17:53:24 where are you located? 17:53:27 Utah 17:53:46 SP2-0310: unable to open file "/web/oracoacs/packages/acs-workflow/sql/oracle/jobs-start.sql" 17:54:15 while * Installing data model for ACS Workflow 4.3... 17:56:03 uhoh. 17:56:12 looks like everything else is ok 17:56:29 hmmm last time I installed oracle was to test acs workflow 4.3 actually. and it was way before 2.7 17:56:42 s/2.7/2-7 17:57:49 that won't affect what we're doing now, will it? 17:58:56 rbm: what city in Utah? 17:59:00 i don't think so, as long as the rest of the datamodel loaded ok. 17:59:11 looks that way.. 17:59:20 jim: Logan 17:59:34 jim: But I can drive to SLC or Provo anytime. 18:00:56 ok 18:02:24 we'll work out the key signing thing 18:04:14 http://bricolage.thepirtgroup.com/ 18:04:14 B: http://bricolage.thepirtgroup.com/ from davb 18:04:19 B:|Bricolage 18:04:19 titled item B 18:04:35