IRC log of openacs on 2002-02-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:05:34 [davb]
where is jim when you need him
00:06:52 [davb]
oops I never installed oracle on this box...
00:06:54 [davb]
oh well.
00:09:42 [jim]
?
00:11:29 [davb]
heh, I was wondering if you could provide an actual copy of that script so I don't have to copy/paste it, but nevermind, I didn't install oracle, and I am not in the mood to do it tonight :)
00:11:44 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
00:11:49 [davb]
hi denshi
00:11:49 [denshi]
boo!
00:11:58 [denshi]
hey davb
00:12:02 [davb]
* davb hides behind Psychephylax
00:13:19 [denshi]
who is Psyche, anyway?
00:13:36 [davb]
a random OpenACS developer. He got sucked into it by his job
00:13:46 [davb]
now we can't get rid of him
00:13:54 [denshi]
??? that's an odd way to join. Where does he work?
00:14:24 [davb]
not really, his boss said, you will use OpenACS 4, have fun... :)
00:14:33 [davb]
some cable company.
00:15:07 [denshi]
damn, that's cool. Does his boss hack ACS?
00:15:18 [jim]
davb: sure. I can maybe help you install oracle at some pt
00:15:19 [davb]
I think not.
00:16:09 [davb]
jim: thanks! I have installed several times, but it is not my preferred development platform. anyway I am geeting a new CPU/MB/and lots of RAM at the end of the week. so I think I will wait
00:17:21 [denshi]
hey jim. haven't seen you in a while.
00:17:23 [jim]
might be an idea
00:17:27 [jim]
Hiya denshi
00:17:46 [jim]
denshi: welp, I looked a little closer at parrot
00:18:13 [jim]
definitely not ready for perl-aol being ported to it yet
00:18:53 [davb]
anyone tried photodb?
00:22:01 [jim]
(technical reasons: when I make a new instance of an aolserver data structure (like a NsDString), I allocate a chunk of mem and call aolserver's api to initialize it... then I make a perl reference and a perl SvIV, point the ref at the SvIV, point the SvIV at my chunk of mem...
00:22:15 [jim]
parrot has no references yet...
00:23:16 [jim]
later versions of perl-aol try to use a hash (because I'm storing a few pieces in the hash)...
00:23:17 [denshi]
yeah, it's totally new and unprepared. But I think by this time next year the early perl6 prereleases will start coming out on it. By end of next year, Larry Wall and crew will cry out for all to destroy their perl5 interpreters.
00:23:26 [jim]
parrot has no hashes yet...
00:23:29 [jim]
)
00:23:52 [denshi]
So perl-aol on perl5 might be a bad idea, when you look at its possible life span.
00:24:03 [denshi]
I like to build things that are useful for 3-5 years.
00:24:38 [jim]
well, wall claims that perl 4 is even out there (as much as he wishes it was gone)
00:25:07 [denshi]
this is true.
00:25:30 [jim]
so wall is thinking perl5 might last 3-5 years from now
00:25:47 [jim]
err, from the time perl6 comes otu
00:26:53 [jim]
but I'm not necessarily in a big hurry to look at perl-aol right now
00:27:17 [jim]
the only way I'd want to is if I could solve the whole destructor bug
00:28:55 [jim]
well, might set aside some time to look at it again
00:32:26 [denshi]
I think in two years we should try dumping aolserver for apache 2. But I'm not going to say a word of that until then, as it would be stupid to draw people to that until apache has worked out their design flaws.
00:33:38 [jim]
then might as well use mod_perl?
00:33:53 [jim]
or python or whatever?
00:33:59 [denshi]
no, no, no.
00:34:24 [davb]
we still need a db api comparable to aolserver.
00:34:44 [jim]
and you can get that :)
00:34:55 [davb]
with?
00:35:28 [jim]
by building it, probably on top of the standard perl DBI interface
00:35:33 [davb]
oh :)
00:36:22 [jim]
then would have to look for poolable dbi
00:36:25 [davb]
* davb wonders what everyones favorite langauge is besides tcl :)
00:36:38 [denshi]
perl DBI sucks ass, if you haven't noticed.
00:36:41 [rbm]
davb: C, Python
00:36:51 [davb]
cool
00:37:26 [davb]
there is a tcl package that replicated the aolserver apis for tcl, you could load that in mod_tcl and be halfway there
00:37:29 [davb]
or more
00:37:50 [denshi]
jim: I wasn't saying that we should switch over to mod_perl. That's a whole other bag, about rewriting all the OACS into another language, which would be tiring and suck ass.
00:37:58 [jim]
if we include tcl in the "fav lang" question, I might say perl (I wouldn't say tcl, unless it got much better wrt aggregate data structures and first-classness)
00:38:25 [rbm]
davb: nstcl, by Michael Cleverly. http://www.cleverly.com/aolserver/
00:38:32 [davb]
thanks!
00:38:35 [davb]
thats it.
00:38:39 [rbm]
davb: The newer nstcl does templating as well.
00:38:46 [davb]
cool.
00:38:53 [rbm]
And it implements the new ACS db api
00:38:55 [davb]
anyway that is probably the best bet for apache.
00:38:59 [denshi]
I'm saying that aolserver has only a few people left working on it, the maintainer consistently pisses off contributors, and it's way behind on modules.
00:39:30 [jim]
kriston?
00:39:41 [davb]
what about the whole thread vs. process and shared memory etc,,, does apache 2.0 fix it?
00:39:50 [denshi]
so when apache2 gets up to the point where its architecture is on par with aolserver circa 1996, then we should look at moving.
00:39:58 [davb]
ah. ok
00:40:12 [jim]
96??
00:40:29 [rbm]
I think the "future" is what Petra proposed: write an AOLserver driver for FastCGI, that way you could use it with Apache
00:40:32 [jim]
you mean 2 years before it was called aolserver?
00:40:44 [jim]
err, maybe that's not right
00:40:47 [rbm]
denshi: Actually 1995
00:40:52 [denshi]
davb: apache2 fixes that -- of course, they couldn't just fix that. There's a completely insane mess involving sometimes-threads/sometimes-processes that apache2 can programmatically run in.
00:40:59 [jim]
you mean 2 years before ArsDigita?
00:42:05 [jim]
If Eve's history was accurate, ArsDigita started in '98?
00:42:22 [rbm]
jim: Yes, I mean 2 years before aD
00:42:30 [rbm]
s/2/3/
00:42:37 [jim]
ahh
00:42:52 [jim]
when did aol buy navi?
00:42:57 [denshi]
97?
00:43:12 [rbm]
I thought it was in 95
00:43:23 [rbm]
Actually I'm pretty sure it was 94
00:43:52 [jim]
when did phil talk aol into GPLing aolserver?
00:43:56 [talli]
talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
00:44:06 [talli]
hey guys
00:44:16 [jim]
better, when did they do it?
00:44:17 [docwolf]
how-dy
00:44:22 [denshi]
yo t
00:44:37 [talli]
yo denshi
00:44:37 [rbm]
brb
00:44:45 [talli]
hello docwolf
00:44:51 [docwolf]
greetings.
00:45:00 [talli]
hey jim
00:45:36 [denshi]
hey talli, I wrote the script to import the web/db pages into oacs3.2.5.
00:45:46 [talli]
cool
00:45:50 [talli]
but why into 3.2.5?
00:46:01 [denshi]
I'm going to run a couple test iterations and then mail it.
00:46:12 [denshi]
b/c that's what the current openacs.org is running on, right?
00:46:26 [talli]
yeah
00:46:35 [talli]
but we should suck them straight into the new OACS site
00:46:35 [davb]
talli: what do you need volunteers to do to convert to 4?
00:46:52 [talli]
well, the scripts are already there for 4
00:47:00 [rbm]
denshi: ???? Michael Cleverly already did all that.
00:47:31 [rbm]
He even matched aD users with OpenACS users. Few were left unmatched and those were mostly one-posts.
00:48:00 [talli]
rbm, that's also all well and good, but why?
00:48:19 [talli]
there's a new site begging to replace this horrid one we have now!
00:50:07 [talli]
hey denshi, any news on the tora front?
00:50:12 [denshi]
oops. why didn't he post that?
00:50:19 [denshi]
no news on tora.
00:53:31 [til]
rbm: do you know from michael directly that he already did that or are you refering to the "i want my web/db" thread?
00:53:57 [Mango]
Mango (~ThatGuy@ool-18bdc78c.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs
00:55:37 [Mango]
Helllo in here.
00:55:39 [denshi]
and why hasn't that been used for openacs.org/bboard?
00:56:01 [talli]
hey Mango
00:56:07 [Mango]
:)
00:56:08 [denshi]
good evening, mr. fruit.
00:57:01 [Mango]
:)
00:57:08 [davb]
oops, car-jousting, bbl
00:57:20 [talli]
Mango, you new to the OACS?
00:57:22 [Mango]
::::covering eyes:::::
00:57:27 [Mango]
Yep.
00:57:43 [talli]
* talli puts on his drug pusher sweat jacket
00:57:53 [talli]
you know, Mango, the first one's free, but...
00:58:22 [talli]
welcome Mango. started using it yet?
00:58:27 [davb]
nm, not until 9:00
00:59:40 [Mango]
Tru newbie Mac geek systems guru
01:00:01 [Mango]
www.whatthehellamIdoinghere.com :)
01:00:47 [docwolf]
mango -- stay away from that talli guy. he's no good.
01:01:11 [Mango]
Life's no good. :)
01:01:11 [talli]
except my souffle's are delicious! docwolf, even you can't deny that...
01:01:18 [docwolf]
yes, that is true.
01:01:29 [docwolf]
the souffle is excellent.
01:02:00 [Mango]
:)
01:02:10 [Mango]
You dudes Mac-Heads?
01:02:26 [talli]
silence
01:02:58 [Mango]
The crickets tell all.
01:04:14 [davb]
actually some visitors use Mac, but not most
01:05:03 [talli]
there's one guy that uses mac pretty heavily. he doesn't now much though. nothing about databases at least. his name is markd2. he's weird.
01:05:42 [talli]
you gotta watch out for him, too, cuz he's 5-0
01:06:23 [denshi]
mango raises an interesting question. I cut my teeth on linux & sunos 4 in 94-96. Nothing serious before that. What about everyone else?
01:06:44 [davb]
I started on vic-20 :)
01:07:02 [davb]
only real os I ever used was linux
01:10:41 [davb]
way to scare the newbie
01:12:14 [davb]
* davb prepares to convert weblog data to etp
01:12:36 [docwolf]
ugh
01:12:38 [davb]
I think I need a pl/pgsql function to use the etp api to insert them
01:12:51 [davb]
oh well, if I screw it up I can reload the data model :)
01:13:04 [docwolf]
i just finished watching that film with englebart and the mouse.
01:13:09 [davb]
cool.
01:13:24 [denshi]
rbm just sort of disappeared after the drugs and sex came out.
01:13:34 [denshi]
I want to know what happened with cleverly.
01:13:55 [docwolf]
???? something happened?
01:14:08 [rbm]
* rbm is back
01:14:26 [rbm]
talli: Why? Because he wanted web/db accessible on openacs.org
01:15:01 [rbm]
I installed Tora the other day. Never got it connect to any databases.
01:15:05 [denshi]
mango, is that site you linked your personal site?
01:16:03 [rbm]
talli: What's missing for us to migrate to the new openacs? The biggest hurdle I see is the SDM, but we could have the old site running on port 8000 or something just for SDM.
01:17:19 [shagster]
Or just create an sdm.openacs.org
01:17:25 [davb]
yeah talli: like I said, what do you need volunteers to do?
01:21:52 [jim]
why is sdm a hurdle?
01:22:54 [rbm]
jim: Because it hasn't been ported to OACS 4
01:23:10 [rbm]
* rbm is behind on bboard messages
01:23:12 [jim]
ahh.. and also not to acs 4?
01:24:24 [davb]
I thought there was a sdm for 4 over a ybos.net (didn't download it)
01:25:07 [jim]
if there is, and license permits, why not look at it? :)
01:26:25 [davb]
downloaded
01:27:01 [rbm]
oh there is?
01:27:08 [davb]
yep. oracle only.
01:27:10 [rbm]
* rbm goes to help a friend with debian
01:27:12 [rbm]
Argh!
01:27:18 [rbm]
bbiab
01:27:25 [jim]
that's not too bad
01:27:36 [davb]
no, it can be ported.
01:28:13 [davb]
wait, its a mess.
01:28:16 [davb]
no sql dirs
01:28:20 [davb]
no tcl dirs
01:28:35 [jim]
hmm...
01:28:38 [denshi]
I'm out of here. Mango, hope you find something you like.
01:28:40 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
01:28:49 [jim]
everything in /ackages/srm?
01:29:21 [davb]
yes, except for www
01:30:11 [davb]
we need someone who knows sdm to look at it.
01:31:41 [davb]
it might just be better to write a new one based on ticket-tracker/workflow
01:32:28 [davb]
also looks like it would be easier to take the pg version and hack on it until it looked like this instead of back porting the oracle stuff
01:51:59 [talli]
davb, i'll write up what volunteers need to do
01:52:14 [talli]
i posted it on the bboards a while ago, but it needs updating, so i'll write that up
01:53:59 [talli]
oh, i didn't see shagster is here now
01:54:08 [talli]
let me put on my steel cup
01:54:14 [talli]
and kevlar jock
02:13:40 [davb]
cool
02:32:54 [Mango]
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talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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13:02:20 [Psychephylax]
hmmmm
13:56:22 [davb]
davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
13:56:27 [davb]
hi
14:31:37 [Starets]
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16:10:55 [davb]
yippee! it works
16:13:00 [Starets]
what works?
16:13:26 [davb]
I stuffed data from my old ugly hack weblog into edit-this-page and openacs 4.
16:13:40 [Starets]
Nice.
16:20:51 [jim]
mornin *
16:21:31 [jim]
heya davb... did you find my wp patch yesterday?
16:21:50 [Starets]
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16:22:10 [lilo]
[Global Notice] Hi all. Reminder to Linux hackers: the Ottawa Linux Symposium CFP deadline is March 1st. Heavy hackers are encouraged to submit proposals, details at http://www.linuxsymposium.org/. Thanks.
16:25:06 [davb]
jim: yes, but I didn't test it :)
16:25:29 [jim]
howcomedat?
16:25:35 [davb]
too lazy
16:25:46 [jim]
did it apply?
16:25:52 [davb]
I am making progress on coverting my personal site to openacs 4 though.
16:26:13 [jim]
it's a covertly sekret? :)
16:26:28 [davb]
not my personal site.
16:27:59 [jim]
I'm gonna do the ad hoc general-comments-on-etp thing on my musical site...
16:28:10 [davb]
trying to patch now, my patch skills are less than super :)
16:28:12 [davb]
neat
16:28:19 [davb]
I want to add comments for my etp stuff too.
16:28:39 [davb]
One thing I want is a elegant way to take stuff from different etp instances and put it on the home page.
16:31:23 [jim]
ok, you can cd to .../packages/wp-slim and do cat /path/to/patchfile | patch -p0
16:31:39 [davb]
ok.
16:31:43 [rbm]
or patch -p0 < patchfile
16:32:17 [davb]
aha, much better thanks
16:33:05 [jim]
I'm definitely interested to know if it applies :)
16:33:34 [jim]
(i.e., if patch runs without failed hunks)
16:33:45 [davb]
it applied fine. now I am installing the data model to see what happens.
16:33:53 [jim]
cool :)
16:34:00 [davb]
anyone have oracle to test my patch for wp-slim? :)
16:34:15 [jim]
I do -have- it...
16:34:36 [jim]
it's not up atm
16:35:14 [jim]
* jim tries putting oracle up
16:36:21 [jim]
SQL*Plus: Release 8.1.6.0.0 - Production on Thu Feb 21 08:36:40 2002
16:36:45 [jim]
Database "ora8" warm started.
16:37:32 [jim]
listener is up too
16:37:51 [jim]
ok, so now I need another oacs to put in the oracle
16:37:58 [jim]
and another user
16:39:23 [jim]
damn, I forgot the names of things
16:41:01 [jim]
I forgot that command that's like sqlplus only like a local back door, and you have to say "connect internal"
16:41:16 [jim]
wait I remembert
16:41:20 [jim]
svrmgrl
16:42:20 [jim]
* jim finds his perl script from the other day :)
16:43:41 [jim]
* jim does df... finds 3.6g available in the oracle volume... plenty :)
16:44:41 [davb]
barely
16:44:42 [davb]
:)
16:45:15 [davb]
jim: do you use debian?
16:45:51 [jim]
yep
16:46:08 [davb]
cool. btw. I have run pg and oracle on the same openacs install directory. works great.
16:46:34 [jim]
but the data models can be different?
16:46:57 [davb]
sure.
16:47:09 [jim]
does that also mean I could run two pg instances off the same dir?
16:47:12 [davb]
you need different aolserver config files
16:47:25 [davb]
you should be able to.
16:47:56 [davb]
if you use vinod's you need to customize the config file so the database name is not the same as the server name and install dir.
16:47:58 [jim]
hmm, that can be useful
16:48:39 [jim]
I dunno whose I'm using... maybe it is vinod
16:48:47 [davb]
I got the case for my new pc, but no cpu :(
16:49:15 [jim]
what about mobo?
16:49:39 [jim]
and how do you plug in the cpu? what socket/slot?
16:50:13 [davb]
I have a spare mb. its a socket. cpu should be here tomorrow.
16:50:21 [jim]
good
16:50:29 [jim]
slot 1 SUCKS.
16:50:45 [jim]
* jim is still pissed off at slot 1
16:50:52 [davb]
yes. I actually have two. one athlon, and one P3
16:51:02 [davb]
yeah, it was an evil hack to get the cpu out the door early.
16:51:34 [davb]
amd had a good idea using the alpha compatible socket, but luckily they weren't screwed by that.
16:51:48 [jim]
* jim is actually pissed at himself for not reading how to install the cpu...
16:52:19 [davb]
ah :)
16:52:28 [jim]
had an asus dual slot 1
16:52:42 [davb]
ok. i installed and the patch works. I can enter html in the slides, plus it has my patch, so they work together
16:52:44 [jim]
permanently damaged both slots :(
16:52:56 [jim]
excellent :)
16:53:20 [jim]
make sure you can edit them
16:53:26 [davb]
ok
16:53:41 [jim]
* jim isn't sure he got everything
16:54:31 [davb]
that worked too
16:54:38 [jim]
cool :)
16:55:10 [davb]
does it check if you have unclosed tags?
16:55:20 [jim]
no
16:55:34 [davb]
ah,
16:55:38 [jim]
it just "allows" html
16:55:43 [davb]
ok.
16:56:12 [jim]
and I decided they should -not- be allowed in the presentation title or slide title
16:56:39 [davb]
probably not.
16:57:31 [davb]
actually what would be neat is if there were standard css id tags created for the slides. then someone could add an interface to style the presentation using those ids.
16:57:54 [jim]
is there an existing filter that checks for closing?
16:58:05 [davb]
sounds familiar, but I am not sure.
16:58:08 [davb]
:)
16:58:19 [davb]
I think bboard can do it.
17:02:20 [jim]
ok, someday I'll look at that :)
17:02:52 [jim]
it does do some sort of style thing, doesn't it?
17:02:57 [davb]
another bug I need to submit. in the api browser
17:03:04 [davb]
jim: maybe, I never looked :)
17:03:52 [jim]
* jim remembers creating a white-on-black style, and using it :)
17:05:04 [jim]
* jim does this the easy way
17:06:29 [davb]
package-view does not check which db you are supporting
17:08:58 [jim]
is that good or bad?
17:09:18 [davb]
bad. you get oracle files when you are running pg.
17:09:26 [davb]
not really bad, more annoying :)
17:09:32 [jim]
gotcha
17:09:57 [davb]
actually, nevermind. it shows all the sql files. I was clicking on the oracle ones because they came first. dug
17:09:58 [davb]
duh
17:10:56 [jim]
ahh, I was gonna say, that would be the more useful approach... should default to showing you the db in use, but allow you to see the other...
17:11:13 [jim]
the way it is now would at least let you see either
17:14:11 [davb]
right, I just wasn't paying attenion :)
17:16:01 [davb]
http://developer.mimer.com/validator/index.htm
17:16:02 [chump]
A: http://developer.mimer.com/validator/index.htm from davb
17:16:27 [davb]
A:| Online SQL Validator
17:16:28 [chump]
titled item A
17:16:40 [davb]
A: .92 .99 200x
17:16:40 [chump]
commented item A
17:16:44 [jim]
davb: what's your email?
17:16:55 [davb]
dave@thedesignexperience.org
17:17:11 [jim]
rbm: you too, gonna send you a oracle tablespace maker :)
17:17:20 [jim]
davb: sent
17:17:21 [davb]
cool!
17:17:51 [jim]
save the whole message, then pipe it into uudecode
17:18:04 [jim]
headers and all is just fine
17:18:37 [rbm]
jim: rmello@cc.usu.edu
17:19:02 [jim]
rbm: sent
17:19:48 [jim]
* jim tries running it on perl 5.6 (which is what woody has)
17:20:01 [jim]
it was written using potato perl
17:22:14 [jim]
(note: the script produces script that came from aD acs install instructions; haven't looked back there yet)
17:22:22 [rbm]
jim: tks
17:22:29 [jim]
from probably a year and a half ago
17:24:12 [jim]
* jim is gonna haf ta hack around a bit to get this going
17:27:32 [davb]
cool.
17:28:37 [jim]
ok, that got it, I think
17:29:40 [jim]
ok, the script the perl script made is now working
17:30:17 [jim]
(well, see, that script produces some sql, you have to copy/paste lines of it into svrmgrl)
17:30:57 [jim]
* jim has a new database :)
17:31:50 [davb]
ok
17:31:58 [jim]
* jim performs acceptance test on it
17:32:13 [jim]
SQL> select sysdate from dual;
17:32:13 [jim]
SYSDATE
17:32:13 [jim]
----------
17:32:13 [jim]
2002-02-21
17:32:28 [jim]
acceptance test passed!
17:36:12 [jim]
ok, this patch I'm testing... what does it affect?
17:36:58 [davb]
it correctly sets the parent_id of the presentation object
17:37:04 [davb]
:)
17:37:13 [jim]
so, this is wp
17:37:21 [davb]
oh yeah :)
17:37:39 [davb]
should I send you the patch?
17:37:40 [hazmat]
hazmat (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
17:37:44 [davb]
hi hazmat!
17:37:49 [hazmat]
hi davb
17:38:08 [jim]
ok... will it work on oacs from cvs of 20020207 at 2239 UTC?
17:38:25 [davb]
should. I used it back then, I just didn't submit it.
17:38:27 [jim]
hmm, that was 2 weeks ago
17:38:33 [jim]
ok
17:41:03 [jim]
hmmm... think I should compile the oracle driver? :)
17:42:35 [davb]
nah. well, unless you don't have it :)
17:42:59 [jim]
fresh build, so I didn't build it yet
17:46:25 [jim]
heyy! built first time!
17:48:59 [jim]
* jim started the server, looked over the log... seems to be accessing the oracle db ok
17:49:25 [jim]
OpenACS Installation: Welcome
17:49:38 [jim]
Your Oracle8 driver is correctly installed and configured.
17:49:38 [jim]
The next step is to install the OpenACS kernel data model. Click the Next button to proceed.
17:49:51 [jim]
hah! damn I'm good :)
17:50:50 [rbm]
jim: You still up to sponsoring me as debian developer? I'm almost done reading the docs.
17:50:58 [jim]
sure
17:51:05 [davb]
jim: cool. my patch changes the sql files for wp-slim so you need it before loading the datamodel
17:51:16 [rbm]
* rbm taps davb on the back
17:51:27 [rbm]
jim: great!
17:51:58 [rbm]
jim: the debian devel signing my pgp key must have met me in person, or sign my key _with me in person_?
17:52:13 [jim]
yes.
17:52:21 [rbm]
yes what?
17:52:30 [jim]
to both
17:52:41 [jim]
well, actually
17:52:55 [rbm]
Argh. So say you had met me in person in the past, I couldn't just send you my key for you to sign?
17:53:24 [jim]
where are you located?
17:53:27 [rbm]
Utah
17:53:46 [jim]
SP2-0310: unable to open file "/web/oracoacs/packages/acs-workflow/sql/oracle/jobs-start.sql"
17:54:15 [jim]
while * Installing data model for ACS Workflow 4.3...
17:56:03 [davb]
uhoh.
17:56:12 [jim]
looks like everything else is ok
17:56:29 [davb]
hmmm last time I installed oracle was to test acs workflow 4.3 actually. and it was way before 2.7
17:56:42 [davb]
s/2.7/2-7
17:57:49 [jim]
that won't affect what we're doing now, will it?
17:58:56 [jim]
rbm: what city in Utah?
17:59:00 [davb]
i don't think so, as long as the rest of the datamodel loaded ok.
17:59:11 [jim]
looks that way..
17:59:20 [rbm]
jim: Logan
17:59:34 [rbm]
jim: But I can drive to SLC or Provo anytime.
18:00:56 [jim]
ok
18:02:24 [jim]
we'll work out the key signing thing
18:04:14 [davb]
http://bricolage.thepirtgroup.com/
18:04:14 [chump]
B: http://bricolage.thepirtgroup.com/ from davb
18:04:19 [davb]
B:|Bricolage
18:04:19 [chump]
titled item B
18:04:35 [davb]
B: open source CMS using Apache/mod_perl and PostgreSQL
18:04:35 [chump]
commented item B
18:04:48 [rbm]
jim: How?
18:05:00 [jim]
trying to find a DD in your area
18:05:06 [rbm]
I was hoping I could have Bruce Perens sign my key, since I met him in person in november.
18:05:25 [jim]
he still can
18:05:27 [rbm]
But if the DD must sign the key in my presence, then that won't work.
18:05:47 [jim]
the way the key signing thing works,
18:05:59 [davb]
bbl...lunch
18:06:02 [jim]
they have key-signing parties occasionally
18:07:10 [jim]
I think what you do is get your key on a public key server, and hand out printed copies of your key fingerprint...
18:07:41 [jim]
and you also get fingerprints too
18:07:59 [jim]
everyone then goes home and does the actual signing
18:08:07 [jim]
then emails the keys out
18:08:41 [rbm]
okay
18:08:41 [jim]
it's something like that
18:08:56 [rbm]
And it needs to be a non-expiring key right?
18:09:27 [jim]
I would imagine so
18:14:38 [jim]
don't you have a gpg key already, btw?
18:22:02 [jim]
ok, the error I pasted earlier is the -only- error produced in the install
18:25:11 [jim]
ok, the oracle oacs is now up and running
18:29:05 [davb]
cool
18:30:05 [jim]
If you like, you can go directly to Jim Lynch's Your Workspace.
18:33:09 [davb]
cool, fedex put the rest of my parts on the truck this morning, should arrive soon :)
18:34:05 [jim]
nice :)
18:34:16 [davb]
I have to rebbot, brb
18:34:19 [davb]
davb has quit ()
18:42:25 [rbm]
jim: Yes, I have gpg.
18:42:59 [jim]
davb: what packages should I cvs? just wp-slim? (btw... why is it slim? is there a wp-fat?)
18:43:18 [jim]
(yes I know he's not here yet, I typed ahead...)
18:57:38 [jim]
rbm: there's somewhere that tells you exactly what kind of key to create...
19:01:01 [davb]
davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
19:01:56 [davb]
hi jim: yes wp-slim is all you need.
19:02:06 [davb]
I don't know why it is slim though :)
19:02:32 [jim]
ok
19:02:41 [davb]
maybe it ate photodb-lite
19:03:41 [jim]
hmm
19:08:42 [jim]
* jim discovers debian jigdo
19:08:58 [davb]
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/02/20/rest.html
19:08:58 [chump]
C: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/02/20/rest.html from davb
19:09:14 [davb]
C:|REST and the Real World (Representational State Transfer)
19:09:14 [chump]
titled item C
19:09:25 [jim]
http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/
19:09:25 [chump]
D: http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/ from jim
19:09:45 [jim]
D:|Debian CD Downloads
19:09:46 [chump]
titled item D
19:09:56 [til]
til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
19:11:14 [jim]
djg: Way of getting debian CD images that allows subsequent updating of images, which would download only what is different from previous jigdo image
19:11:20 [jim]
oops
19:11:30 [davb]
don't put a space after the :
19:11:39 [jim]
D:Way of getting debian CD images that allows subsequent updating of images, which would download only what is different from previous jigdo image
19:11:39 [chump]
commented item D
19:11:49 [jim]
dingo!
19:11:53 [jim]
I mean bingo!
19:14:25 [jim]
D:You can get stable, testing or unstable images (data files for latter two generated daily)
19:14:25 [chump]
commented item D
19:14:41 [jim]
D:
19:14:42 [chump]
http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/
19:14:42 [chump]
Debian CD Downloads
19:14:44 [chump]
(jim) Way of getting debian CD images that allows subsequent updating of images, which would download only what is different from previous jigdo image
19:14:45 [chump]
(jim) You can get stable, testing or unstable images (data files for latter two generated daily)
19:14:54 [jim]
perfect :)
19:15:22 [rbm]
jim: saw that. pretty cool
19:15:49 [jim]
yeah :) I got distracted looking for key info :)
19:16:04 [davb]
going outside brb
19:20:21 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@63.224.172.97) has joined #openacs
19:23:44 [jim]
rbm: how close are you to Tempe, AZ?
19:25:41 [davb]
hi markd2
19:27:33 [markd2]
howdee
19:27:46 [rbm]
jim: No clue. Probably pretty far.
19:28:12 [jim]
rbm: I'm looking at http://nm.debian.org/gpg.php
19:32:41 [rbm]
what does nm stand for again
19:32:51 [rbm]
oh, new maintainer
19:45:53 [jim]
wp-patch applied successfully. Now using package mgr to install...
19:46:42 [davb]
cool
19:48:08 [jim]
Warning: Package Body created with compilation errors.
19:48:08 [jim]
Errors for PACKAGE BODY WP_PRESENTATION:
19:48:08 [jim]
LINE/COL ERROR
19:48:08 [jim]
-------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
19:48:08 [jim]
39/5 PL/SQL: Statement ignored
19:48:09 [jim]
45/24 PLS-00201: identifier 'PACKAGE_ID' must be declared
19:48:11 [jim]
Package body created.
19:48:16 [davb]
argh.
19:48:17 [jim]
bb, lunch
19:48:17 [davb]
:)
19:48:35 [davb]
I'll go over that and post a new one.
19:48:57 [jim]
If you want hackcess to my install, can arrange that later
19:50:20 [davb]
package_id needs to be parent_id oops.
19:53:10 [rbm]
* rbm goes out. bbl
20:04:58 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
20:15:54 [hazmat]
does openacs cvs work with pg7.2?
20:21:22 [davb]
not sure. I think so.
20:34:26 [hazmat]
only one way to find out then.
20:43:23 [davb]
is 7.2 released?
20:45:46 [hazmat]
yes
20:45:56 [davb]
cool. I wonder if the debian package is ready
20:46:34 [hazmat]
probably, its been a week or two.
20:52:38 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:55:57 [davb]
argh, I can't upload the new patch with links, I'll have to do it later.
21:17:38 [davb]
anyone have advice for recompiling the kernel or not when installing a new motherboard and cpu?
21:19:33 [davb]
oh well, time to go home.
21:19:37 [davb]
davb has quit ()
22:22:02 [talli]
talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
22:22:08 [talli]
hey guys
22:22:12 [talli]
shagster, you there?
22:23:00 [hazmat]
hi talli
22:23:15 [talli]
hey hazmat!
22:23:18 [talli]
long time no see!
22:23:35 [hazmat]
been on vacation and to conference for the last few weeks.
22:24:04 [hazmat]
i was in nyc, but busy, sorry i didn't get a chance to call.
22:24:20 [talli]
nice. i saw you delivered something at Python 10, or at least something relating to zope, right?
22:24:42 [talli]
no prob, with NYC... next time :)
22:24:56 [hazmat]
yes, i gave two impromptu talks, one on a python repository built with zope, and another on an event channel for zope.
22:25:16 [hazmat]
out of curiosity where did you see a reference to me?
22:25:16 [talli]
oh, cool
22:25:35 [talli]
hmm... i forget. maybe on zope.org? or on zopera.org
22:25:45 [hazmat]
probably.
22:26:05 [hazmat]
just got done reading eveander's write up of aD
22:26:11 [talli]
oh man
22:26:14 [talli]
run away
22:26:22 [hazmat]
talking about the ills of vc on #zope at the moment in light of it.
22:26:49 [hazmat]
rehash: i remember talking to aure (one of the founders) at a boot camp, i learned alot when he poked holes in one of my problem set solutions. there were alot of smart people there. it reinforces my view that venture capital is generally extremely unhealthy for the company since vc is interested in returned profits, company be dammed.
22:27:26 [talli]
true. but don't forget that aD may have had smart people, but smart people are also often totally nuts. case in point: aD
22:29:08 [talli]
eve may be smart, but as someone (i think it was bart) mentioned on the OACS bboards today, her ecommerce code sucks
22:29:11 [hazmat]
true.. but it was still sad watching in slow motion the vision that made aD great (imo) die and the company along with it. maybe i'm just being reminscient.
22:29:49 [talli]
no, you're right. but alot of that greatness was only shine. speaking with enough people that worked there has convinced me that it was a horrible mess internally
22:31:53 [hazmat]
so whats happening at museatech?
22:32:28 [talli]
oh, you know, life, love, the pursuit of profit...
22:32:31 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-207-203.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
22:32:43 [talli]
unlike the mischevious docwolf...
22:33:06 [hazmat]
the good stuff. i'm in pursuit of a job and a relocation to the east coast at the moment
22:33:13 [talli]
oh, cool
22:33:20 [talli]
you're gf finishing up at caltech?
22:33:38 [docwolf]
ahem
22:33:43 [hazmat]
no, we've been on the rocks, and its time to move on i think.
22:33:55 [talli]
oh, i'm sorry, is that docwolf? have we been ignoring your presence?
22:34:13 [talli]
* talli motions for the trumpets to sound in recognition of docwolf's entry
22:34:17 [talli]
hazmat, sorry to hear that
22:34:33 [hazmat]
* hazmat starts banging on the bongos
22:34:40 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@209-122-233-105.s1915.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
22:34:47 [docwolf]
better. you were a little slow on the draw, there talli.
22:34:51 [docwolf]
what do i pay you for, anyway?
22:34:53 [talli]
oh man, and now the court jester arrives...
22:35:14 [talli]
otherwise known as "vinod"
22:35:23 [vinod]
* vinod does the court jester jig
22:35:57 [talli]
so, anyone here play with C# yet?
22:36:35 [talli]
go portable.NET!!!!
22:37:36 [talli]
hazmat, what are you looking to do?
22:38:23 [vinod]
hey hazmat!
22:38:37 [hazmat]
interesting things, preferrable with some sort of moral feel good associated with it.
22:38:42 [hazmat]
hi vinod
22:38:56 [talli]
you mean like pr0n?
22:39:17 [hazmat]
no that doesn't qualify, besides i would stay in calli for something like that.
22:39:27 [talli]
brb. must reboot to finish VMware install
22:39:35 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:39:52 [til]
til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:40:24 [vinod]
hazmat: you're coming out east? to nyc?
22:40:50 [hazmat]
anywhere from virginia to nyc. not sure exactly where yet ;)
22:41:03 [vinod]
cool. i'm looking to move to nyc as well
22:41:34 [hazmat]
hopefully you'll get more bandwidth ;)
22:41:42 [vinod]
exactly! :-)
22:41:58 [vinod]
i've had enough of this hick town
22:43:58 [talli]
talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
22:45:19 [docwolf]
vinod takes manhattan. the horror, the horror.
22:46:11 [vinod]
muahahaha
22:46:47 [vinod]
if that doesn't scare talli out of new york, nothing will!
22:47:05 [talli]
what? are you coming to NYC vinod?
22:47:11 [talli]
just bring your liederhosen.
22:47:36 [docwolf]
you planning on living in manhattan, or one of the loser borroughs? ;-)
22:47:51 [vinod]
manhattan, only losers live in places like brooklyn
22:48:08 [docwolf]
i lived in the bronx for 11 years, i have a right to bitch
22:48:17 [talli]
hey, brooklyn is cool!
22:48:22 [talli]
that's where the hipsters live now!
22:48:35 [docwolf]
naw, lars left. the place is going to shit.
22:48:39 [vinod]
haha
22:49:15 [vinod]
course, i need to find a job first, so i'll probably end up in long island or something
22:49:29 [talli]
you're not jewish! you can't live on long island!
22:49:30 [docwolf]
uh oh. I lived there for 10 years, too.. we should talk..
22:49:39 [vinod]
yeah, i'd never live there
22:49:42 [talli]
docwolf, where in the bronx do you live?
22:49:46 [vinod]
i'd just have to make the painful commute
22:49:51 [docwolf]
(did) live
22:49:54 [docwolf]
riverdale
22:49:57 [talli]
ah...
22:50:04 [talli]
riverdale is not quite the same as the bronx...
22:50:10 [docwolf]
hehe
22:50:16 [talli]
it;s not like you were beat boxing down coop city
22:50:19 [docwolf]
i was there in the 1970s
22:50:31 [docwolf]
when NYC was somewhat... unsavory.
22:50:40 [talli]
good point
22:50:42 [docwolf]
then fled to the burbs
22:50:44 [docwolf]
of long island
22:51:02 [docwolf]
(which, for vinods information, is like living in the suburbs anywhere, except its expensive and the people are surly.)
22:51:27 [vinod]
yeah - that sounds quite unappealing
22:51:35 [docwolf]
it was an OK place to grow up i guess
22:51:52 [docwolf]
since it was close enough to the city... we could always hop a train into town.
22:53:02 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:58:17 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
22:58:41 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@above.badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs
23:01:43 [rzolf]
what's the cleanest way to delete all except 1, where the leftover item is not important?
23:01:56 [rzolf]
just use max(oid) or min(oid) ?
23:02:28 [rzolf]
(just wondering if there is another method)
23:03:54 [talli]
talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
23:04:39 [talli]
what's the word, herd?
23:05:46 [rzolf]
the bird is the word.
23:06:02 [talli]
is it the third bird?
23:06:10 [talli]
the one with the turd?
23:07:56 [rzolf]
when do the leet SQL programmers show up.
23:08:02 [rzolf]
don't make me do the caveman thing.
23:08:15 [talli]
what's that?
23:08:45 [rbm]
moo
23:09:03 [rzolf]
is there a magical way to delete everythig in atable except 1 row.
23:09:17 [rzolf]
besides "where not max(oid)"
23:09:42 [rzolf]
like there's no "delete from table dongs EXCEPT LEAVE ONE THERE"
23:10:09 [rbm]
rzolf: delete from foo where foo_id <> xxx;
23:10:37 [rzolf]
ok.
23:12:16 [rzolf]
rzolf has quit ("rzolf has no reason")
23:12:23 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:20:21 [vinod]
hey rbm
23:21:51 [rbm]
hey vinod
23:23:19 [vinod]
just checkin if you're going to be able to get to those doc changes
23:23:33 [vinod]
i got some free time tonight but then i'm busy the rest of the weekend
23:23:59 [vinod]
so if you haven't started, i could work on it tonight
23:27:52 [talli]
talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
23:32:25 [docwolf]
uh oh
23:32:31 [docwolf]
rbm breaks out the 'marketing stunt'
23:33:29 [talli]
haha
23:33:31 [talli]
thanks rbm
23:34:57 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:37:34 [rbm]
* rbm catches up on openacs mail
23:37:45 [rbm]
vinod: I'll work on them tonight.
23:39:12 [hazmat]
thanks
23:39:40 [vinod]
rbm: cool (about the docs)
23:40:47 [rbm]
vinod: It stuns me what some people will do.
23:41:57 [rbm]
Where's that /. post? I heard of it but didn't hear it?
23:42:26 [hazmat]
i'm looking for it.
23:42:41 [rbm]
* rbm wonders how much should he read of talli's "enterprise class" thread
23:42:56 [rbm]
I think I'll add a bot to #openacs. What do you guys think?
23:43:00 [hazmat]
damm, slashdot searching sucks
23:43:19 [davb]
rbm: sure what will the bot do?
23:43:31 [rbm]
davb: It's an infobot. Let me bring him up.
23:43:45 [vinod]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=27678&cid=2974024&pid=2974024&startat=&threshold=2&mode=nested&commentsort=0&op=Change
23:43:45 [chump]
E: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=27678&cid=2974024&pid=2974024&startat=&threshold=2&mode=nested&commentsort=0&op=Change from vinod
23:45:11 [rbm]
* rbm is sickened by Ybos' post.
23:45:53 [davb]
rbm: i have fooled around with the xene/creature bot. it logs and has alot of neat features.
23:51:10 [paje]
paje (~paje@slxwy.dorms.usu.edu) has joined #openacs
23:51:27 [rbm]
* rbm presents paje to #openacs
23:51:34 [davb]
welcome
23:52:13 [rbm]
You can ask him things, teach, get /. headlines, weather, BOFH excuses and even insults.
23:52:19 [rbm]
paje: who are you?
23:52:19 [paje]
i guess i am the medicine man and oracle in Amazonian tribes. I'm also a recipient of church of mike's "full deal" package
23:52:35 [davb]
cool.
23:52:36 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
23:52:53 [denshi]
* denshi disappears into the shadows.
23:53:19 [rbm]
paje: give me an excuse
23:53:20 [paje]
rbm: OS swapped to disk
23:53:27 [rbm]
paje: insult davb
23:53:27 [paje]
davb is nothing but a cockered petrification of evil entrails.
23:53:34 [rbm]
:)
23:53:38 [davb]
excellent.
23:53:44 [rbm]
davb?
23:53:51 [rbm]
scrape that :)
23:53:53 [rbm]
paje: davb?
23:53:54 [paje]
i haven't a clue, rbm
23:54:04 [vinod]
we already have one of those. it's called talli
23:54:19 [rbm]
vinod: heheh
23:54:23 [rbm]
paje: heheh
23:54:23 [paje]
HEHEH
23:54:31 [denshi]
hazmat: you still here?
23:54:35 [rbm]
paje: karma for vinod
23:54:35 [paje]
vinod has neutral karma
23:54:37 [hazmat]
yup
23:54:42 [rbm]
paje: vinod++
23:54:55 [denshi]
were you a Tech'er as well?
23:54:55 [hazmat]
integer overload
23:55:03 [hazmat]
denshi: ??
23:55:08 [denshi]
caltech...
23:55:09 [hazmat]
denshi: GT?
23:55:15 [denshi]
gt?
23:55:40 [hazmat]
denshi: georgia tech. gf is @ caltech. me, i'm just a bum.
23:55:56 [hazmat]
i guess i should say ex-gf.
23:56:08 [denshi]
was your x-girl from texas before caltech?
23:56:12 [hazmat]
yes
23:56:15 [hazmat]
houston.
23:56:25 [hazmat]
* hazmat is getting some wierd vibes.
23:56:27 [rbm]
hazmat: You've just taught something to paje :)
23:56:28 [talli]
talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
23:56:34 [rbm]
paje: insult talli
23:56:34 [paje]
talli is nothing but a pox-marked ass-full of clouted toxic waste.
23:56:45 [rbm]
talli: :)
23:56:47 [talli]
who is this page?
23:56:48 [talli]
paje?
23:56:48 [paje]
talli?
23:56:57 [denshi]
* denshi is emitting wierd vibes?
23:57:01 [talli]
paje, are you a bot?
23:57:01 [paje]
talli: no idea
23:57:09 [rbm]
paje: who are you?
23:57:10 [paje]
i am the medicine man and oracle in Amazonian tribes. I'm also a recipient of church of mike's "full deal" package
23:57:10 [talli]
paje, are you denshi's lover?
23:57:11 [paje]
talli: no idea
23:57:12 [denshi]
paje, are you part of rbm's posse?
23:57:12 [paje]
denshi: wish i knew
23:57:31 [rbm]
talli: Yes, he's a bot
23:57:39 [hazmat]
denshi: why?
23:57:44 [talli]
paje, how many of denshi's children have you given birth to?
23:57:45 [paje]
talli: i don't know
23:57:50 [talli]
paje, that many?
23:57:50 [paje]
wish i knew, talli
23:58:00 [rbm]
paje: slashdot
23:58:01 [paje]
Slashdot - Updated 2002-02-21 22:58:07 | Socket-A Chipset Roundup | Could Mono Kill Gnome? | CDN Supreme Court Upholds 'Net Free Speech | GNOME 2.0 Beta
23:58:17 [talli]
we need more bots in this channel!
23:58:22 [hazmat]
.google foo
23:58:37 [hazmat]
is it xena?
23:58:41 [rbm]
paje: tell talli about linux
23:58:52 [DavesCreature]
DavesCreature (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
23:59:00 [rbm]
paje: rbm?
23:59:07 [talli]
paje is a silly bitch bot
23:59:11 [vinod]
botfight! botfight! :-)
23:59:11 [paje]
you are a brainless wonder or my master
23:59:24 [rbm]
heheh
23:59:26 [talli]
am i a bot too?
23:59:42 [vinod]
talli: insult vinod
23:59:42 [paje]
vinod is nothing but an egg-sucking petrification of beef-witted craptacular carpet droppings.
23:59:55 [davb]
creature can't do that
23:59:59 [davb]
:(